There's a lot of material here, and you can't possibly expect to read it in one hour or even one night and be up to speed. It takes time to study and let this sink in, but it's well worth your time! This may be at the crux of the issues we're facing at Bellevue today, and we need to be wise, informed sheep.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. II Timothy 2:15
Words of advice from a Germantown Baptist member who's been there:
"As a member of SaveGBC, I can tell you that we were totally clueless as to what was going on, until we started doing research, after the Constitution & Bylaws revision was thrown at us for the second time. My advice to y'all is RESEARCH, RESEARCH and MORE RESEARCH. It will scare you to death.
"All of us at GBC are praying for our Brothers and Sisters at BBC. GOD WILL protect his children. We are proof of that."
A "purpose driven" thread was started a few weeks ago, but there wasn't much input then as other topics arose which took precedence. Since we seem to have acquired a lot of new readers since then, I want to reintroduce this topic for discussion.
This seems to be a recurring theme in the comments, albeit one that hasn't gotten much traction, that Bellevue may be moving toward a Purpose Driven model. Please comment on anything you perceive being related to the PDC movement in this thread, particularly as it relates to the issues facing Bellevue today.
1. Do you think Bellevue is moving in this direction? Why or why not? If so, does this concern you?
2. Have you read The Purpose Driven Life? If so, what did you think about it?
3. Has your Bible Fellowship Class or other group done a study of the PDL? If so, what are your thoughts about it?
4. Do you see this movement and its wide appeal across denominational lines as evidence of the "one world church" the Bible tells us will emerge in the latter days?
It seems the Church of Christ denomination is just as under attack by the Purpose Driven Rick Warrenites as the Baptists are!
ConcernedMembers.com is a website devoted to exposing this movement in our churches today. They maintain a forum for members of individual churches of all denominations to discuss, much as we do in this forum, the problems facing their churches. A list of these churches with links to their forums is available here.
Note: A majority of the churches listed are Church of Christ congregations, and a big issue with them that doesn't apply to us is the introduction of musical instruments into their churches. However, they have many other issues with which we may share their concerns.
Gardendale Baptist Church in Corpus Christi, TX went through a well-publicized split in 2004 over the same issue -- a pastor saying "my way or the highway." (Am I the only one who sees the irony in the name of that church?)
We have been told that Bellevue isn't part of the "Purpose Driven" movement, yet when you read some of the firsthand descriptions from members of churches which are being or already have been "transitioned," they sound eerily similar to what we're experiencing at Bellevue today.
Signs of the church growth movement.
And a new one someone sent me designed to train pastors in transitioning their own churches. This one is scary reading!
These are some links from my personal list, but there are many other sources for information on this topic.
Letter to editor of the Americus Times-Recorder (two pages long).
Reply to above.
Are Rick Warren's Teachings at Bellevue Baptist?
Berean's PDL Discernment Tool
Book review -- Transitioning
Church Growth Movement (multiple articles).
Change Dividing Southern Baptist Mega-Church thread pertaining to Bellevue.
Herescope blog.
Lighthouse Trails Research Project
One Man's Purpose-Driven Journal
Spirit-Led or Purpose Driven?
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
The Purpose-Driven Pastor discussion.
The Adulation of Man in The Purpose Driven Life article.
Transitioning an established church.
Multiple Links about the seeker sensitive and purpose driven church philosophies.
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233 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 233 of 233allofgrace wrote:
"Now the singles department has a coffee shop...widescreen tv's everywhere..what is all this stuff about?"
Good question. I realize we're Baptists, and as such, food has traditionally been an integral part of our gatherings, but since when do we have to be served breakfast on Sunday mornings? First it was the huge boxes of doughnut holes and the orange juice and coffee. Now they've got a miniature "Starbucks" on the second floor in the singles area, complete with new wood flooring, expensive looking tables and chairs (with little coffee cup "brands" on the backs), and big, cushy chairs blocking the already crowded hallway. It's like maneuvering an obstacle course of furniture and people (many of whom are juggling hot coffee, doughnuts, the book de jour, and perhaps their Bibles) just to get to the classrooms. I've seen people spill coffee and orange juice on the carpets. It's just not necessary IMO. We go to church for two reasons, to worship and to be fed (not doughnuts). I suppose with a multi-million-dollar budget, all that food every week, a coffee shop, and a few dozen big flat screen TVs are small potatoes, but I could think of more appropriate uses. Again, just MHO.
NASS
Bravo NASS!
I wonder how many flat screen TVs we have at BBC. There are places in the church where you can stand
and see three at one time!
I sorta like the coffee though....
choice_is_yours,
Could not agree more. The Bible is always current, always relevant, always right on the mark. Why would we need "the next big thing"? We already have the only book we need.
allofgrace,
Thanks so much for sharing! My heart was stirred as I considered how far we have moved away from God, His Precious Son, and The Holy Spirit. The gospel was not meant to be "tailored" by men to meet the need of the day. It was initiated by God to meet the needs of all for all times.
There will never be an equal to the Word of God. There will never be any other way than the Son of God. And no life changing power to match The Holy Spirit of God.
John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
With all the "little" lights that men have attempted to shine, why do we not simply point to the Word of God and the God that is the Word. Darkness does not comprehend and we are indeed experiencing dark days at Bellevue, in America and around the world.
Justin,
I checked out your link. If you are serious about the truth concerning hell, I suggest (not dare) that you read:
Hell Under Fire: Modern Scholarship Reinvents Eternal Punishment (Hardcover)
by Gregory K. Beale (Contributor), Dr. Daniel I. Block (Contributor), Sinclair B. Ferguson (Contributor), Jr., R. Albert Mohler (Contributor), Douglas J. Moo (Contributor), J.I. Packer (Contributor), Robert Yarbrough (Contributor), Christopher W. Morgan (Editor), Robert A. Peterson (Editor)
You can get it through Amazon for about $10.00.
Justin,
For truth about salvation, here is a good start:
www.new-testament-christian.com/salvation.html
Blog bites: Warrenism Splits Church
Friday, September 8th, 2006 in Uncategorized
Yes, that’s Warrenism named after Rick Warren. I wondered if anyone had used that term before so just Google it and see. When I say Warrenism splits church I am referring to a story by Suzanne Sataline in the Wall Street Journal entitled A Popular Strategy For Church Growth Splits Congregants. It was only a matter of time that the seeker driven methods get critiqued in the media, but I would not have guess that it would make the Wall Street Journal. I don’t even know if the evil theology of Calvinism has made it that big.
My favorite quote from the article.
"During a session titled 'Dealing with Opposition,' Mr. Clyde recommended that the pastor speak to critical members, then help them leave if they don’t stop objecting. Then when those congregants join a new church, Mr. Clyde instructed, pastors should call their new minister and suggest that the congregants be barred from any leadership role."
hereiblog.wordpress.com/2006/09/08/blog-bites-warrenism-splits-church/
"Purpose-Pastors Trained to Manipulate Dissenters
One of the books sold on Rick Warren's website teaches pastors how to deal with Purpose Driven dissenters. The author characterizes those who resist the transition to the Purpose Driven franchise as "leaders from hell" who are misguided, and have evil motives or are just unwilling to change because of their being caught in traditions. The message is clear - they are incompatible with the new church scheme, and therefore they must go. But some of the victims of the Purpose Driven scheme are speaking out, and it's clear that many of them simply don't fit the trouble-maker profile described by such a book....
This transition is similar to what happens when one franchise company buys another. The employees of the purchased company have been trained in the vision and protocol of that company. The new one has an entirely different corporate agenda. What often happens is that long-time, loyal employees of the old company are fired because it is easier to bring in a new team that is sold on the new company's ways. This is painful enough in corporate America, but when it happens to a long-standing church that existed to preach the gospel, teach the Bible, and care for the flock, people who are mature, loving Christians find themselves removed from fellowship. They who love their Lord and His Word have, through no choice of their own, become characterized as wicked resisters who are standing in the way of what God wants to do."
www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/id.2.pid.250
25+yrs@bbc,
Not sure if you're aware of it, but at least 3 of the authors who contributed to the book you referred to (Al Mohler, Sinclair Ferguson, JI Packer), as well as John Mark, the man who has the hereiblog site, are all subcribers to the "evil theology of Calvinism".
Allofgrace...
That was a quotation from the site noted and does not reflect my views. I believe the author of the words may have used it tongue in cheek.
25+yrs@bbc,
Thanks for clarifying that.
25+years@BBC,
The "evil theology" of Calvinism is the likely to spark the next great fight among Southern Baptists.
Two of the SBC's six seminaries have presidents who are selfidentified Calvinists: Albert Mohler Jr. of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and R. Philip Roberts of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Roberts's predecessor at Midwestern, Mark Coppenger, also advocated Calvinist theology. At present, at least five of the six Southern Baptist seminaries have some Calvinists on their faculties.
I disagree with certain doctrinal beliefs held by a lot of people, including our pastor, but unless something is clearly heretical, I wouldn’t say it is “evil.” It is fine to disagree with Calvinism, but I caution against hyperbolic rhetoric. Calvinism is certainly within the pale of orthodoxy and hardly evil.
The SBC was founded by Calvinists and many modern Southern Baptists have returned to the doctrine of their ancestors. This return to Calvinism is likely to accelerate due to an influx of new Calvinist pastors. Remember, those on either side of you next Sunday may be Calvinists.
25+years@BBC,
Well, no sooner than I commented, I see there has been a clarification. Thank you for that.
It's amazing how the proponents of "seeker sensitivity" seem to have little compassion for those sheep already in the fold..and are referred to as "leaders from hell". Very...sensitive.
Just saw Rick Warren interviewed on FOX News, and he was asked why Barack Obama, with his pro-choice, pro-gay views, was invited to speak at RW's AIDS conference at Saddleback this week.
His reply was that he didn't want the stage to be stacked with Republicans. Duh. Is this man serious??? Is he saying there are no pro-choice, anti-gay Democrats?
25yrs+@bbc wrote:
"'The author characterizes those who resist the transition to the Purpose Driven franchise as "leaders from hell" who are misguided, and have evil motives or are just unwilling to change because of their being caught in traditions.'"
Okay, so far we (or some of us) have been labeled:
1. adversaries
2. anti-Bellevue
3. libelers/slanderers
4. evil-doers
5. equivalent to those who practice witchcraft
I'm sure I've left out a lot, but those are just a few that come to mind.
And now "leaders from hell." They're referring to "us"? To quote one commenter whose screen name escapes me, "Pot, meet kettle."
NASS
NASS,
I think I'd rather be numbered among those on your list than among those who just go along to get along...with blinders on.
Rick Warren has just admitted to being a CFR member to Joseph Farah of World Net Daily dot com in this article.
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:Rml5TeGLwZsJ:www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp%3FARTICLE_ID%3D53030+megapastor&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a
Joseph Farrar goes on to say this in his article.....
I really didn't expect to hear back from Warren – but, a few minutes later, I did, with an absolutely stunning retort.
He let me know he is a close friend of President Bush ''and many, if not most, of the generals at the Pentagon.''
He also told me he did not tape anything while in Syria, ''because it was a courtesy call, like I do in every country.''
Warren explained that he had also counseled with the National Security Council and the White House, as well as the State Department, before his little courtesy call for a neighbor.
''In fact,'' Warren added, ''as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, I might know as much about the Middle East as you.''
What is the CFR?
“The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) has been rightly described as the preeminent intermediary between the world of high finance, big oil, corporate elitism and the U.S. government. Its members slide smoothly into cabinet-level jobs in Republican and Democrat administrations. The policies promulgated in its bi-quarterly journal, Foreign Affairs, becomes official U.S. government policy.” (Quote from Author and Journalist, Jonathan Vankin)
Within its membership that includes 4,000 of the most powerful people in the world of U.S. business, academia, media and politics along with an endowment that has tripled over the past decade. After going through this list, you shouldn’t have any doubt that our nation is controlled, not by a representative system of government, but betrayed by just the opposite of what our Founding Fathers intended ... an oligarchy.
It should awaken all of us to know that these people are organized with the intent to change the United States independence by incorporating it into a global amalgam. Our hope should be that this goal will turn out like the Tower of Babel.
Rick Warren is organizing the churches of the last days into a one world religion thru his purpose driven movement.
NBBCOF,
1 Timothy 4:1, 6 “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;…If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.”
I am taking seriously your invitation to post here if one has something which might aid in the understanding of what is taking place at BBC. Taking this into consideration in that I have ‘been there, done that’, I do have a few things to say which I hope will be beneficial to you. Please understand that what I am about to say is done with the intent to help rather than to hurt anyone. The people who are responsible in having ‘driven’ fellow church members out of their churches need to repent and make public apologies to their victims in making right the wrongs they have done to the Body of Christ. Having said this, I want to tell you that there is little doubt in my mind that your church is being highjacked by the purpose driven movement. I have spent the last one and one half years doing extensive research into this movement and others similar to it. It is my prayer that those initiating this movement in your church will repent and that the scales will be removed from the eyes of those members who are being manipulated by them. Please understand that what I am about to say only touches the tip of the iceberg. There is so much more to our story and there is so much more to be said of the devastation brought on by the PDM. This is not just about Bellevue Baptist Church, Germantown Baptist Church, Gardendale Baptist Church of Corpus Christi, Iuka Baptist Church, and hundreds of others…this is about the dishonor being brought about to our Lord Jesus Christ through this movement.
Since the beginning of savingbellevue.com, I have been reading and keeping up with things at BBC. My heart breaks for all of you, especially those of you considered to be 'resistors' or 'pillars' or ‘leaders from hell’. If these terms mean nothing to you, this probably means that you are not educating yourselves on the purpose driven movement enough to understand what is happening in your church. These terms refer to those who resist the movement and are asked to leave or are voted out (or worse) by those who are in control and are bringing the movement into the church. The harder these people resist, the harder they are dealt with. The blows can be devastating. These people, the resistors, have discerned that there is a serious problem in the church, even though they have not or cannot identify its root cause initially. Or it might be that these people are just no longer wanted in the church for whatever reason. This transitional movement is done in total secrecy. It is transitioned into an established church in darkness. More often than not it is a ‘slow boil’ and is often carried out over a period of several years. I have come to learn that often times the plans are fouled because those in the lead become impatient. Once they lose control, things run amuck. I believe there is a strong possibility you are witnessing this at Bellevue. Let me add here…if you have read Transitioning an Established Church by Chuck McAllister in Rick Warren’s Toolbox and it sends up red flags, then you best listen to your innermost being.
My blog name, “Been there”, bears witness to the fact that my husband and I are victims of this horrible movement which has invaded churches all over the world. My husband was voted out of his church of fifty-nine years, as an active deacon in a business meeting that defies anything even remotely known as ‘Christian’ behavior. I could never have taken part in treating another human being in the manner in which my husband and these two other deacons were treated on that fateful day/evening on April 5th of this year. People who call themselves Christians actually stood and applauded, cheered, and rejoiced at what they perceived to be the spiritual destruction of three Godly men, not to even mention the damage to their character that could have manifested in their community as a result of this heinous act. The people taking part in this atrocity were jubilant, seemingly overjoyed with what I perceive to be the equivalent of a modern day lynching. That morning the other two deacons were approached by members of the active deacon board with typed resignations on church letter head stationary and were told that if they didn’t sign these typed resignations, they would be voted out that night at the business meeting. They signed. People have been led to believe that they willfully decided to resign and did so…this is not true. It was a well planned and orchestrated nefarious plot. My husband was not available so they could not ask him to sign his typed, church letter head resignation. I found two deacons that afternoon, including the chairman, in our secluded backyard, certainly not gated but private nevertheless, looking for my husband. I had seen one of these men driving slowly back and forth in front of our home earlier that day several times looking our way with a fixed stare. I felt like we were being ‘cased’. It was the most eerie, unnerving feeling I have ever had. These three deacons have yet to be told what they were guilty of. One of the deacons voted out was told by one of these deacons that they just didn’t ‘have the same ideas’. And, in fact, just shortly before they were ousted, the chairman of the deacons told my husband that if he wanted to remain fundamental Baptist, then he would need to get out and find himself a fundamental Baptist church. He said this is the direction the Southern Baptist Convention is taking. I can tell you what these three deacons were guilty of…they were guilty of loving their church enough to try and stop the invasion of the purpose driven movement into it by bringing it to the attention of the deacon board. I asked one of these deacons who took part in removing these three men at that business meeting on the evening of April 5th, just this past Sunday night for the first time since the business meeting just exactly what it was that these three men did to be removed from their church and his answer to me was, “I don’t know.” How pathetic this is. Tragic! Let me just add here, that it is possible to listen to this business meeting online. You can go to ‘abrahamic-faith.com/false-teachers.html and look near the bottom at ‘part 1 and part 2’ and listen to that April 5th meeting. My prayer for all of you is that you can find an answer before something like this happens in your church. I could write a book on what led up to all of this in our lives and it still continues on. The feeling of betrayal remains...it has left a bad taste. One of the most devastating things used to discredit these three deacons and their families from the onset and throughout all of this was the rumors they spread, total untruths…and people swallowed them. People who were our friends won’t speak now….we are avoided. It has divided families. The aftermath of this atrocity has been truly as remarkable as the events leading up to and including the night of April 5th, 2006. This is part of the plan of the purpose driven movement….the Hegelian dialectic. Pragmatism. Whatever it takes. There exists a picture of Rick Warren holding up a sign with this written on it, “Whatever It Takes.” Understand that these people will stop at nothing to get their way. You are already witnessing this at Bellevue. When I first started reading all of these things on your savingbellevue website about Mark Sharpe, I could not believe the similarities of the things that happened to him to those of my husband. It is truly incredible…the similarities. There was no doubt in my mind that Mark Sharpe was telling the truth. Truth is not a part of the purpose driven agenda. I could never have imagined I would have ever seen the things transpire in our former church, or any church for that matter, that I have witnessed.
In September, the Wall Street Journal featured an article by Suzanne Sataline titled, Veneration Gap-A Popular Strategy for Church Growth Splits Congregants. The front page carried a picture of my husband, the article written about both of us along with other congregants in other areas of our country. This was the first time a secular media has openly discussed anything in opposition involving Rick Warren and the purpose driven movement, aka church growth movements. For the first time, an avenue was opened where people could email a source voicing their opinions about the betrayal they had undergone in their churches. Ms. Sataline was inundated with emails from people like you and like us from all over the world…telling their horror stories about abuse coming from their churches. I pray that there will continue to be avenues opened up where people can voice their grievances on these issues and unite in the hope that people will return to the faith, turning from the seducing spirits and doctrines of devils so prevalent today. Your website, your blog are such avenues and I see this as an area of accountability. You are to be commended for this. We have been asked to write our story for publication. We must all tell our stories…we must fight this demonic transition overtaking our churches and our people. “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”- (Jesus Christ)-Mark 8:36.
I read one of your entries by a Germantown Baptist member, who stressed to all of you to educate yourselves on these movements so prevalent today, especially the Rick Warren movement. He is giving you excellent advice. This is truly the only way to learn what is going on in your church. I find that to be the main problem in churches…that members are unwilling to read about it, unwilling to educate themselves about it. It is not going to self destruct. One of the deacons in our former church, inactive at the time, told my daughter he didn’t know what purpose driven is, he didn’t want to know what purpose driven is, and had no intention of trying to find out. This man has since been voted back in as a deacon in said church. I find it to be total ignorance to refuse to educate oneself on something so crucial. It is truly tragic. One could fall prey easily when they don’t understand what is going on. This is a responsibility we owe ourselves. Mr. Haywood has ample information for you to read on savingbellevue.com. and at the beginning of this thread. I would like to include these which I find to be good sources and in no particular order: ‘crossroads.to’ by Andy and Berit Kjos; ‘sliceoflaodicea.com’ by Ingrid Schlueter; ‘lighthousetrailsresearch.com’ by David and Deborah Dombrowski; ‘abrahamic-faith.com/false-teachers.html’ by James Sundquist; ‘newswithviews.com’ Paul Proctor; ‘erwm.com’ (Eastern Regional Watch) by Steven Muse; ‘swrc.com’ Dr. Larry Spargimo and Noah Hutchings, ‘deceptioninthechurch.com’ and look under purpose driven. I would also like to recommend the books Redefining Christianity-Understanding the Purpose Driven Movement by Bob DeWaay, Who’s Driving the Purpose Driven Church? and Rick Warren’s Global Peace Plan vs. Scriptural Teachings on Peace by James Sundquist, Ashamed of the Gospel by John MacArthur, and Deceived on Purpose by Warren Smith. The book, Transitioning-Leading Your Church Through Change by Dan Southerland is one you should read…paying particular attention to Step 6, page 110 on Dealing with Opposition; the foreword is written by Rick Warren and instructs pastors on how to take your church into the purpose driven church by deception. You can also find similar reading in The Purpose Driven Church and of course, you can find all sorts of information of pastors.com, Rick Warren’s own website. You might want to pay particular attention to Dealing with Opposition, Step 6 under the thread, Transitioning, Dan Southerland. Please read and educate yourselves on this movement. It is true that you need to be careful what you read; however the footwork has been provided for you by Mr. Haywood and myself, as well. It is credible and validated.
The most important thing in all of this is…you must stand for what is right. You must take a stand for Jesus Christ at all costs. That is what my husband and the other two deacons who stood with him have done. There were others with us…small in number but big in heart and discernment. Standing for what is right is not always popular. The majority is not always right. Remember the crucifixion. This purpose driven movement is all about changing the church to become worldly…the Bible tells us in Romans 12:2 “Be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
“If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head…But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take [any] person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.” Ezekiel 33:3,4,6
Yours in Christ,
Nena Jones
“That very church which the world likes best is sure to be that which God abhors.”-Charles H. Spurgeon, 1859
Allofgrace,
Great posts! Don't worry about the length. They are all very interesting.
Countryboy,
Welcome back and where have you been? Lurking I guess. You are my PD lifeline!
Beenthere,
Thank you so much for your first hand experience. I have never doubted Mark's story or his sincerity. As I have said before, his story never changes. Everyone else's change constantly. I don't think that is a good sign.
I met a couple at my new church who mentioned McAllister to me. I didn't think I'd heard of him but thanks for mentioning him in your post. It turns out I had heard of him! They didn't mention his first name - just McAllister and they told me he was the cause of the problems at their former church. I mentioned Rick Warren and they just kind of looked at me so I didn't realize the connection at the time. I'm trying to figure out if they know who McAllister is, why don't they know RW is also involved? They did mention everything was so watered down at their other church and they didn't really realize what was going on. Now I'm wondering how they finally realized what was going on. Hopefully I will get a chance to speak to them again soon.
I want to tell you how sorry I am for what you and your husband have gone through. I know what all of us are going through but no one has been casing my house and trying to make me sign a resignation form. I pray that God will give you the strength to continue to endure.
God Bless you all!
Diana
dianahart,
Thanks for the encouragement...I know I sound like a broken record and I've been constantly challenged to "prove" that this philosophy is present at BBC. It's good to know it's getting through to some folks. Blessings.
Diana...thank you. God has, indeed, given us the strength to endure. Thank you again.
been there,
Thank you for telling your story. The similarities to what's happening at BBC are incredible.
To all:
There's a link on the front page which tells you how to make a link "linkable." That will help a lot in reading your comments when you make reference to another web page.
NBBCOF
allofgrace wrote:
"I know I sound like a broken record and I've been constantly challenged to "prove" that this philosophy is present at BBC. It's good to know it's getting through to some folks."
Sad to say it seems to be a lot more obvious to those who've "been there" and are looking at BBC from the outside than people on the inside who, for the most part, seem to be oblivious to what's happening right under their noses.
memphismom02,
Your questions are excellent! That is what this battle is about contrary to what many may believe. It is not about the style of music or the personalties involved. It is about serving God and God alone. It is about worshipping God and God alone. It is about being no respector of men, no matter what their financial status or political power.
Can this be at Bellvue again? God will honor the battle of those that war a good warfare. He has not left nor forsaken us and never will.
The problem that we are experiencing at Bellevue, in my opinion, is that we as a congregation by and large are spiritually dead. God has allowed our failures to become evident to any that will hear and any that will see and repent. I firmly believe that God has ordained these events to bring us to a place of congregational repentance. It is also my opinion that there are those that have enough spiritual integrity to recognize and reveal the truth. The truth is not always pleasant to behold, nor is it always readily received. It does not change however according to the latest political trend. The truth is however that we are currently under leadership that has consumed itself with political posturing to appease the masses.
Tim,
Good words.
memphismom02,
I declare to you these words of our Lord Jesus Christ: "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." May we all take encouragement from our Lord.
ezekiel...Amen! And thank you for your remarks.
Memphismom02,
Email me please at turtle2500@netzero.net.
Thanks,
Diana
allofgrace,
I'm still wondering why you are having to "prove" anything. The PD influence has been evident to me ever since I found out exactly what PD meant! Thanks for all your great info.
Diana
Hello Diana...Thank you for those kind words. Have been working quite a bit.
Yes the PD influence is worldwide now. After anouncing he was a CFR member (very damning statement) Rick Warren is still taking flack about Senator Obama. James Sundquist sent this to World Net Daily editor, Joseph Farrar.......
Dear Joseph Farah,
I am in stunned disbelief at Rick Warren's apology to you. Your answer to him in World Net Daily to was brilliant!!! Source:(http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53135)
Of course the Lord delights in true repentance. But this attempt by him is bogus. When he repents to the multitudes of saints he has purpose-driven from churches throughout the world whom he calls "resisters" and those who "must die" because they refused to sign his unbiblical covenants or even for questionning his teachings...when he makes restitution to all of those who have been dismembered left in bloodied pieces from the propeller of his Purpose-Driven ship in keeping with true repentance, and has trained 400,000 pastors how to remove them... when he renounces all of his unholy alliances...when he renounces his own false teachings such as his promotion of occults Carl Jung's Personality theories derived from a spirit-guide named Philemon...when he repents to Israel for inviting speakers whose agenda is to carve up the State of Israel (such as John Ortberg)...when he stands before his congregation like Ted Haggart did and steps down...when he personally repents to Deborah Dombrowski for bearing false witness against her...when he repents for inviting abortion promoters Senator Barack Obama Bill Gates to speak at his Global Peace Plan conference, a funder of Planned Parenthood (at least the Canaanites let their babies be born before they sacrificed them to Molech)...when he returns all of the profits from his Purpose Driven Life book to churches and individuals because it is fraudulent like the Da Vinci Code and turns from his wicked ways and ceases and desists from further promoting his books and peace plan and thanks Joseph Farah, and a host of discernment ministries such as Paul Proctor, Moriel Ministries, VCY America Radio, Christian Witness Ministries in Australia, and authors such as Warren Smith and Bob Dewaay for exposing him as a false teacher, then I will believe that he truly has a contrite heart that God will not despise. Perhaps then he will hear from Heaven! If not, his sin remains!
You are most welcome to post or quote me!
Kindest regards in Christ,
James Sundquist
Director
Rock Salt Publishing
It's about time this PD movement starts to back peddle because of it's lies and deception here in the last days.
I would like to suggest everyone read "What Rick Warren Wants" by Paul Proctor.
What Rick Warren Wants
http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor106.htm
Thank You
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