Sunday, November 26, 2006

How Old Are You?

We'd love to hear from some of you 80-plus-year-old bloggers. And some of you lurkers, too!

In an effort to see if there's a particular age group of Bellevue members who are the most concerned about the current issues facing Bellevue, I'd like to ask you to record your age group in the poll below. Since the forum is open to everyone, I'd like to ask that only those who are Bellevue members with real concerns about these issues answer. If you're not a Bellevue member or are just here to defend the status quo or think there are no problems, please don't participate in this poll. Since two or more family members may be using the same computer and may also be in the same age group, one answer per computer per day is allowed, so if for example, you and your spouse use the same computer, one of you may answer one day and the other the next.

Please help keep this poll accurate by following the rules!

What age group are you in?
Under 20
90 or older
Free polls from


Anonymous said...

Good idea. Am I allowed to vote? :)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Did you read the rules? It's up to you, but based solely upon your previous comments, I'd say you probably don't exactly meet the guidelines. But, hey, we still love you!


New BBC Open Forum said...

Hmmm... Looks like from the poll results so far that I'm not the only "older" sheep hanging out here! NASS got lots of company!

Anonymous said...

ace said...
Good idea. Am I allowed to vote? :)

10:05 PM, November 26, 2006

are you 18 ars or older?y

Anonymous said...

Okie dokie...I won't skew your results ;)

Anonymous said...

are you 18 ars or older?y

Are you asking if I'm over 18? If so, I'd prefer not to disclose my age...but I can assure you, I am not a child.

Custos said...

How do you define child?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Could we possibly hear from some of the "over 69" crowd? I'd especially like to hear from the 2 in the 90+ category. That's a lot of years of collective wisdom represented there!

Anonymous said...

Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church is elder ruled by a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The congregation needs to be awakened to this. I agree with Bin Wonderin:

We need:

1. An apology to the congregation for mocking us at Union City. After all, some of us didn't fall off the cabbage truck yesterday!

2. An admission the cheerleader tickets are not a legit moving expense and reimbursement to BBC.

3. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.

4. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. Free tickets for the host and wife are fine but not for anybody else

5. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. Transcripts on the web within a week

**The current bylaws mention "monthly" business meetings! When were they changed??

6. A transparent committee selection process.

7. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.

8. The signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services to the church. These people should be recused from committees that review bids for their services.

9. No church credit cards. Pay your own way and then turn in an expense report like I do at my job.

AND I would like to add...

10. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... AND any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!

11. The END of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members.

12. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members. Also:

13. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.

14. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.

15. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.

16. Building prayer buildings or any other type of building should be brought through proper channels to the congregation for prayerful consideration--not coerced "rubber stamping."

By the way, Dr. Rogers taught us quite a bit about prayer. As a matter of fact, I believe all of the current buildings ARE prayer buildings already. He and Dr. Whitmire also taught us quite a bit about worship also... but that's another topic.

17. Bellevue needs to reject Warrenism fully and finally.

18. Congregational nomination of and election of all of the Board of Directors as called for in the 1929 bylaws.

All in my opinion as usual.

Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."

MOM4 said...

WOW 25yrs...I am in total agreement. There is no one I can think of that could have laid it all out so clearly.
I would add that all of the information (like the apologies) should come from SG, if you can trust him not to provide lip service and say it with a condescending attitude:))
You have done well 25+, keep up the good work, you have my support in this. It is a worthwhile goal.

Anonymous said...

Concerning the need for a regular, fair, and open business meeting:

Some have been calling for Mt. 18 since the beginning of these problems related to Mark Sharpe, Riad Saba, etc. Others have said either that Mt. 18 had not been followed, did not apply, or did not apply to the pastor. But, no one is above the Word of God.

The quotation comes from a time when there was a similar problem. Luther brought charges against the Pope; however, in Luther's day the Pope controlled any attmpt to bring about a free, impartial forum to resolve the differences that existed. The Pope said that he was above the tempral law, or that his interpretation of the scripture was the true interpretation, or when any attempt was made to call a council the Pope claimed to be the only one with power to call a council.

Bellevue is in a similar mess. There may be legal matters that need to be dealt with. There are those saying that Mt. 18 is not the way to handle these problems. All that is happening seems to be the current leader(s) blocking attempts at a scriptural forum.

Luther believed that it was necessary for true believers to do whatever was in their power to see to it that such a scriptural, free, forum that would seek the truth be established.

Since the biblical process was short-circuited by leadership, similar forums have popped up on the internet.

Still, we need Mt. 18 to be exercised. And we need regular, quarterly business meetings so that the membership does not remain voiceless. In my opinion as usual.

Martin Luther refers to Matthew 18

Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation

The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.

First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.

Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.

Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...

Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.

.... The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . . If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.

MOM4 said...

25+, we really should move these posts to a more appropriate thread where they will be more readily seen - This is very important information you are giving.

Anonymous said...


25+, we really should move these posts to a more appropriate thread where they will be more readily seen

Don't worry. He's been posting that post in every thread here...multiple times in each one too...

MOM4 said...


Anonymous said...

I am in the 69+ category..I am 71. I have been at Bellevue since 1952, when I was 17. I have sung in the choir since 1960, after 4 years at Baylor. I sang solos during Tommy Lane's tenure, but never since. I have loved Bellevue and am heartsick over what is happening now. I went through the travesty with Dr. Pollard and his dissenters, and wept. I was at the service when we had to stand and vote whether we wanted him to stay or go. Dr. Rogers always gave Dr. Pollard credit for preparing the way for him, for passing to him a church that loved its pastor and each other.
I spent twenty-five years as a financial advisor, retiring two years ago. During all that time I was never allowed to talk to any groups concerning charitable giving, or any of the other ways a member could benefit Bellevue through his will or charitable trust. I once sent a letter to the seniors offering to assist them in retirement planning, etc., and received a very ugly letter from Bob Sorrell telling me "never to do that again". I offered to help with the counselling ministry, knowing that money is a constant source of disagreement between young married people. I was told "No". Now we have the Bellevue Foundation, after many years of asking for just such an entity. I realize that, because I am a woman, there will never be a place for me at Bellevue, but I have always loved it and supported it fiercely. Now my heart is broken. My Bellevue doesn't exist any more, at least not the Bellevue I have known and loved for so long.
Now I am one of the "old" people, although I find it hard to realize. I do believe that those of us who feel as I do should speak out. We are truly being pushed aside or pushed out. The music we sing tells us that. We were told from the beginning of Steve Gaines' ministry that we were going to target young people. As if no one ever had, what with our youth programs, mission trips, and the abundance of young people who represent fourth and fifth generation Bellevue members. My own parents were members of Bellevue, and now my grandchildren...that is four generations.
That is fine, but what about us...the ones who have been here and remain here? Where are we to go?
Martha Eberhart

Unknown said...


I am so glad you posted - I know right exactly where your heart is - just hang in a little bit longer. I love you and Teresa so much! I'm attaching my "open letter" here so you can copy and paste to an email to everyone you know - we need to up the attendance at the Communciations Committee Meeting on December 3rd. Remember it's at 8:00; not 8:30. Email me at anytime!!

Love you!!! Karen

This is my open letter to Bellevue - feel free to copy it and send to any and all Bellevue members:

Dear Bellevue Member,

I would like to ask you a favor. Would you please attend the Communications Committee meeting this Sunday, December 3rd at 8:00 am. No one will ask you anything and you don't have to sign a roster to register your attendance. You also don't have to ask any questions unless you want to. Last week's attendance at the meeting was over 100 people. This week we'd like to double, triple even quadruple that number. Please forward this request to any and all Bellevue members. If people will just listen and then seek the truth for themselves, truth will be revealed. They don't have to take my word for it, or the blog or, but truth will be revealed.

Also, if you don't feel comfortable in asking people via email, will you make phone calls this weekend and invite people? I would do it for you if I could - feel free to send me any emails or phone numbers you wish and I promise to contact them.

Love in Jesus,

Karen Turk Marshall