Extended prayer meeting tonight at 6:30 at church. Streaming video should be available here. Audio is available here and here.
FOX Channel 13 is supposed to broadcast interviews with David Matlock and Josh Manning at 5:00 p.m. today. They said to stay tuned for more coverage at 5:30, and they may rerun the story at 9:00 p.m. More information is available here.
Channel 5 is scheduled to broadcast interviews with Mrs. Rogers and David Brown at 6:00 p.m. They may rerun the story at 10:00 p.m. More information is available here.
Be sure to tune in!
Channel 3's coverage is here.
The Commercial Appeal's coverage is here, here, and here.
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479 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 479 of 479OK, Mike is starting his show with BBC commentary.
graceupongrace said:
I would be extremely, extremely, extremely careful about throwing around the word "lie."
Lying is all about a person's intent, so you're really in an uphill battle to prove Dr. Gaines lied. How do you know he does not respect Dr. Spradlin? And what if it aroused anger in him (as I'm sure it may have) but he repented of that anger and thus now has no ill feelings towards for the man? What if he extended Christ-like forgiveness towards Dr. Spradlin?
Wayne Says;
graceupongrace-
Thank you for your wise words. You are right - I can't know SG's heart - but I can say that 'actions speak louder than words.' But, I do pray you are right!
Wayne
justnotso,
Yes, the wine that Jesus drank was fermented. The Bible warns against being drunk with too much wine. How do you get drunk on grape juice?
Here are a couple verses that I'm sure will bless your heart.
1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
Proverbs 31
6 Give beer to those who are perishing,
wine to those who are in anguish;
7 let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.
From WRECRADIO.COM...
Asst. DA Says Law Requires Bellevue Pastor To Report Child Sexual Abuse
Pastor Termed "Moral Failure" A "Church Matter"
If the pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church knew of an allegation of child sexual abuse in June, he was required by state law to report it to authorities then.
That's what Assistant District Attorney Kevin Rardin says about the current controversy at the city's largest Southern Baptist Convention congregation. Rardin is the prosecutor who handles all cases of child sexual abuse in Shelby County and leads a task force of local law enforcement and child welfare agencies.
"There's a duty to report it to authorities, even though the alleged incident may have happened a number of years ago," Rardin said. He emphasized that he was talking in general terms.
Pastor Steve Gaines told members of the congregation at a Sunday (Dec. 17) service that he has put a church staffer, Paul Williams, on paid leave as the church investigates what he termed a "moral failure."
cont...
Gaines hasn't said what it was, but the blog site "Saving Bellevue" says Williams confessed to an incident of child sexual abuse 17 years ago.
Gaines said Williams told him of a 17 year old moral failure during a meeting in June. And Gaines added that he kept the confidence until members of Williams' family came to him two weeks ago and indicated "certain aspects of the situation were not resolved."
That's when Gaines put Williams on paid leave and went to the congregation, still insisting it was a "church matter."
Tennessee state law specifically says that clergy are not exempt from the requirement to report child sexual abuse.
Rardin was emphatic on whether a minister or other clergy must divulge something said in confidence if it involves child sexual abuse.
"No, there's no exemption. Child abuse is not confidential. And there's a duty to report," he said.
It's unclear if Bellevue officials have made such a report. Williams is not charged with any wrongdoing.
About two weeks ago, Rardin says he got a phone call from someone asking how to handle an allegation of child sexual abuse involving a minister at Bellevue Baptist. Rardin advised the caller to immediately contact the state Department of Children's Services on its 24 hour hot line. He didn't say who called or what names were mentioned because under state law such reports are considered confidential at least until formal charges are filed.
last part...
"One of the reasons it's so important to follow the law and to report these matters to the authorities -- even though it may have occured many years ago -- is that the person may still have access to children," Rardin said. "So not only is there a risk of harm to the child who was allegedly victimized. There's a risk of harm to other children. In my mind, that's why it's so critical to follow the law."
The specifics of the law were tested locally in 2005 in a public dust up between the District Attorney's office and the Catholic Diocese of Memphis.
The conflict ended with legal differences remaining. But the church agreeing to report all past allegations of child sexual abuse by priests and other staff as well as any future allegations. Church leaders then turned over a list of 7-10 people. Most of those allegations are believed to be from 20 to 30 years ago.
"Even if there were no law on the books, why wouldn't you report it?" Rardin said. "There's no law that says I have to call the police if I see someone breaking into my neighbor's house. But shouldn't I? In that example it's a property crime. Shouldn't it be even more important to report a crime of alleged sexual violence against a child?
Gaines said Wednesday that despite calls by some for him to step down, he would like to stay as pastor of Bellevue Baptist.
Other church leaders said in addition to their investigation of Williams, they are also preparing written guidelines on how to handle such situations in the future.
"If we were to go back to say 20 years ago, that sort of attitude would be understandable," Rardin said. "But given that it's now 2006 -- given that we've had all these scandals over the past 10-15 years about alleged coverups of child sexual abuse committed by members of the clergy -- no one should be bewildered now. The duty to report is clear and people need to follow it."
housewife,
Thanks for your support - it's taken a while to heal, but I'm doing very well and I have a wonderful, loving husband now. Thank you! :)
The best thing to do for PW's son is to pray for him and his family. I wish I knew how to get in touch with him, but I don't.
The worst thing we can do is continue to fight with each other.
Karen
Mike Fleming has been pretty careful with his words so far and I'm glad it hasn't been a free fire against Dr. Gaines as it seemed to be with Michael Reagan, who was thousands of miles away. It should be a pretty interesting show, especially when he opens up to callers. I'm not sure how I feel about the topic being covered on talk radio, though, with many people who are not members of Bellevue.
karen said...
The best thing to do for PW's son is to pray for him and his family. I wish I knew how to get in touch with him, but I don't.
I agree. I should have included that in my comments but I figured it went without saying. =)
The worst thing we can do is continue to fight with each other.
Not to offend you, but I disgree. I think the worst we can do is give up on this. We need to fight against those who will make every excuse in the book for keeping this pedophile on the payroll, or worse, in a position that affects our children.
If this means that we end up fighting with each other, so be it. Let it be a righteous fight!
We wouldn't be fighting at all if those we trusted would have done the right thing in the first place. We wouldn't be fighting if people weren't still trying to make excuses.
Here we go, phone calls.
I'd like to ask everyone to refrain from discussing the issue that Tim mentioned about new charges possibly being filed until we get confirmation of such. Right now there's no confirmation that any charges have been filed or are pending, so there doesn't need to be any speculation about this right now.
Thank you,
NBBCOF
housewife,
No offense taken - I guess what I mean is calling each other "satan", "liars", "troublemakers". We need to work together for truth, but not tear each other to pieces in the process.
You and I are on the same page. :)
Karen
I've agreed with both of the callers so far to the Mike Fleming show, one who said the comparison to the Catholic Church is a bad one, and the other who said Dr. Gaines is under a tremendous amount of pressure, asking us to think how we would respond in such pressure. Mike Fleming himself said he was taken aback by Dr. Spradlin's speaking out, though, as I believe, he says Dr. Gaines should have taken action in June when Rev. Williams first spoke to him.
And to follow up on this lastest post I was the one that made the inquiry and subsequent call to Nashville to DCS. As I have said all along ANY suspected abuse must be reported immediately. I don't care who you are.
I became aware about two weeks ago today from a phone call from a friend asking if I had seen the blog lately. She told what was posted and I probed from there. Fortunately some people of integrity responded to me that same night so the following morning I made the report. Bellevue did NOT report this. Kevin can verify this.
Some people are posting things up here today that may not be true. And the nature of the allegations are very harmful and damning. Please be silent on what you think you may or may not maybe going on with the prosecutor's office. Unless you work there you will not find out. Wait until you read or see it on the news otherwise it simply is not true. Even I do not know what is going on. Innocent people are being hurt. And you could be sued. If you think posting on here under an assumed name protects you, you are wrong. You can be identified. Please let the people that are professional do their job, they don't need your help unless you are actual facts, no rummors.
I love ALL of you and I do wish the tone of both sides would be more understanding and not as nasty. This is a difficult time for all sides. Please tone it down.
The DA states the obvious.
"One of the reasons it's so important to follow the law and to report these matters to the authorities -- even though it may have occured many years ago -- is that the person may still have access to children," Rardin said. "So not only is there a risk of harm to the child who was allegedly victimized. There's a risk of harm to other children. In my mind, that's why it's so critical to follow the law."
And there you have it. The DA says it is critical to follow the law to protect children. Steve Gaines did not follow the law and he gets a standing ovation from BBC for it.
karen said...
No offense taken - I guess what I mean is calling each other "satan", "liars", "troublemakers". We need to work together for truth, but not tear each other to pieces in the process.
You and I are on the same page. :)
You're right. =)
The guy on right now isn't really saying much. He's saying every accusation is wrong but he's not backing it up with facts. Now he said Spradlin is just mad because he didn't get asked to be the pastor.
Next.
Now this lady is talking about the possible reason as to why SG didn't do anything about it. She said maybe he was too shocked to act.
6 months??????? Please.
Now she's saying that Spradlin has no room to talk because he's not a member.
Does any of this change the facts???? No!
Does it mean SG should not resign because Spradlin isn't a member??? NO
Now she's pulling the "if it wasn't for Bellevue, Mid America wouldn't be there" routine. In other words, Spradlin should be too grateful to speak the truth.
Um, I think Spradlin IS a member.
Oh boy. Here we go again. This guy said that maybe SG didn't have all the info.
How much more than, "I raped my own son" do you need? (Obviously I'm paraphrasing.
Now he's saying that we're just mad because we didn't get Ken Whitten as a pastor.
It's still avoiding the facts.
Some guy named Claude is on now. Claims he plays in the orchestra. According to him, it's all about a little group who wanted Ken Whitten and who are displeased with the music. {NASS's eyes are rolling}
Finally, a lady with decent comments.
If the DA charges Dr. Gaines with harboring a child molester, this fight is over. He did it to himself and no one else can be blamed.
Karen
MABTS meeting at 2 today dealing with Dr Spradlin. I'm hearing that David Perdue orchistrated it and was wanting to push Spradlin out.
You are right housewife, what you're hearing are a series of red herrings.
def: "a type of logical fallacy in which one purports to prove one's point by means of irrelevant arguments"
from wrecradio.com...
Tennessee state law specifically says that clergy are not exempt from the requirement to report child sexual abuse.
Rardin was emphatic on whether a minister or other clergy must divulge something said in confidence if it involves child sexual abuse.
"No, there's no exemption. Child abuse is not confidential. And there's a duty to report," he said.
~~~
I think they will continue to just ignore this very important part of this horrible fiasco.
Custos said...
MABTS
What does this stand for?
Thanks.
MABTS = Mid America Baptist Theological Seminary
Mid America Baptist Theological Seminary
Of course!! I feel silly. =)
How loving, graceful and Christian of those who attack Spradlin, Josh, the bloggers, etc for speaking out but defend SG for harboring a pedophile.
How nice.
Michael Reagan, son of President Ronald Reagan, has called for Steve Gaines to resign. Link below
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/secure/cwnetwork/broadcast.php?ArticleID=1380
housewife,
I am not sure your language ("harboring a pedophile") is very constructive to the conversation. Do you really believe Dr. Gaines intended to harm the congregation by not acting on Rev. Williams' admission sooner (though he should have, and now regrets his inaction)?
I agree with Reagan taking a stand. He may not be from BBC, but he is knon for standing up for victims of pedophiles. He is right!!
You know I think we're past what his intentions may have been. The fact of the matter is his ACTION or lack there of has harmed BBC now on a national scale.
I think SG was thinking more about his own behind to do the right thing. He couldn't take one more scandal. And he was willing to risk our children in the process.
Either way, there is no excuse.
ju,
The only thing that has harmed BBC on a national scale is SavingBellevue, which has been craving for something about their movement to remove Dr. Gaines to hit the media for some time now.
(And these words are not unfounded; look at posts just a few days before this and look at all the calls for the media to print something).
Amen ju!
Just because someone regrets their decisions, does not mean the consequences of the act are negated. SG made a poor choice, and he is reaping the consequences right now.
housewife,
Your words are very shocking to me, implying that Dr. Gaines does not care about the children of Bellevue. Are you that cynical? Let me remind you that he has children of his own at Bellevue, including a Middle School-aged child.
Oh please, graceupongrace.
You are trying to avoid the issue. Don't think we're going to be sidetracked.
Nice try.
Your words are very shocking to me, implying that Dr. Gaines does not care about the children of Bellevue. Are you that cynical? Let me remind you that he has children of his own at Bellevue, including a Middle School-aged child.
That's the shocking part. How can a parent harbor a pedophile?????
housewife,
Please understand my heart. I am trying to reach some level of understanding with you, not distract you from the issues. Ought we not treat Dr. Gaines as Jesus would?
Yes. Jesus would expunge him from Pastorship for putting children at risk.
housewife,
Can you support this from the Scripture?
graceupongrace said...
housewife,
Your words are very shocking to me, implying that Dr. Gaines does not care about the children of Bellevue. Are you that cynical? Let me remind you that he has children of his own at Bellevue, including a Middle School-aged child.
5:15 PM, December 21, 2006
Obviously he does not care about the children of Bellevue if he's willing to harbor a pedophile.
Do you think the Lord could not fathom blogs? Do you for one second think that He didn't know that SG and the crew there would quash any dissent that came about? The Lord provides for his sheep and He has provided an outlet for the sin that is hidden in BBC to come to His light despite the ability of SG and the leadership to rally around and close ranks. The man has got to be relieved of duty there is no doubt about it. If you believe otherwise I fear there is a problem. As I've said before NO discerning Christian can sit under SG's leadership. There is no way that you should.
The lady who was just on has volumes to say. But I'm sure SG's followers would just as soon ignore her too.
graceupongrace,
Nothing sarcastic in this...but how can you know exactly what Jesus would do...I've always hated that WWJD stuff...just a bit presumptive.
ju,
Let me make sure I understand you correctly:
Are you saying that I'm not a discerning Christian?
allofgrace,
We know what Jesus would do because he revealed himself in the Scripture. John 1 says that the Word became Flesh and that He walked among us -- He set an example for us all!
If you are willing to sit under the authority of SG you are not. Of course that is just my opinion and it doesn't make you a terrible person in my book. Just misguided.
graceupongrace,
I think you misunderstood or I didn't make my fquestion plain...How do you know what Jesus would do concerning Paul Williams and how Dr. Gaines handled this situation.
ezekiel,
What do you want me to see in Colossians?
ju,
I am personally shocked that you would make such a judgment as Jesus talks about in Matthew 7. I forgive you, and I am not going to hold it against you, but I think you ought to rethink your position. Please reference my post at 2:01 PM.
allofgrace,
I was referring more to Jesus' teaching on forgiveness, as many people here are still saying Dr. Gaines is harboring pedophiles and intending to harm our children. I believe it is a matter of Christian freedom whether we keep Dr. Gaines, but I do think we are treating Dr. Gaines wrongly in the way we talk of him.
Custos said...
MABTS meeting at 2 today dealing with Dr Spradlin. I'm hearing that David Perdue orchistrated it and was wanting to push Spradlin out.
The royalty at BBC are weighing in to save their positions and that of their savior. All that comes to mind is "Get thee behind me Satan".
"I pray they are rebuked in Jesus' name.
Just because we forgive SG doesn't mean we are obligated to allow him to stay as our pastor.
Are you saying we are?
The truth is sometimes shocking as we've all seen. You can't have your cake and eat it to. Either he is guilty of the sins many have laid out on this blog or he isn't. If he is he should not soon be restored to the position he still holds. Anyone willing to forgive and forget and continue to be led by a man who so frequently shows serious lack of judgment should do some serious praying about that situation. Again just my opinions.
Matthew 18:6, 19:14.
v.6 "But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."
v.14 "Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdon of heaven belongs to such as these.'"
What does these verses say about not harming children and how much children mean to Jesus? At the very least, those who hurt children or harbor those who hurt children should not be in pastorship or minstering. If you can't see this, than that's sad.
Hebrews 12.6
For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.
Housewife, I think if you read my post you would have seen that my position is quite the opposite: "I believe it is a matter of Christian freedom whether we keep Dr. Gaines"
And ju,
As Dr. Rogers said many times, you can have a sincere opinion, but you can be sincerely wrong. And you ought to make sure your opinion is in line with the Scriptures.
Let me remind you of the words of Jesus:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the jugment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."
You judged me by saying I am not a discerning Christian. And yes, this passage is often misused - we are called to be discerning, but we are also commanded not to condemn.
But I fear these words may not be received, as Jesus says in Matthew 7:6.
Another "it is under the blood" comment. (on the radio)
I get that. But that doesn't mean he still shouldn't be fired!
To ezekiel I respond with Galatians 6:1: "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness."
To housewife, you have yet to address the issue of whether Dr. Gaines intended to harm children, which is at the heart of this discussion.
And to ezekiel's second comment, I'm unsure what you mean by the mother comment?
graceuponegrace,
I want you to understand that I'm engaging in dialogue with you because I think you are a thoughtful person..I'm not being condescending or trying to pick a fight..ok?..I know you aren't accusing me of that, I just wanted to make that clear. That said...I'm a firm believer that in any situation the WHOLE counsel of God must be brought to bear. We know from 1 Corinthians how Paul dealt with sexual sin in that church. The offender was expelled from the fellowship, so that he might come to repentance. In 2 Corinthians we see Paul tell the body that what was done was enough and to allow the offender back into fellowship...since these books are Christ's word...I think this is how He would deal with Paul Williams..given his particular temptation and the ramifications of that, I think it's safe to say that Paul's instructions would be that he could not return to ministry however.
Dr. Gaines...we know from scripture that elders/leaders are held to a higher standard..thus the warning that not many should seek to be teachers. Rebukes are aplenty in scripture for teachers who don't live up to those standards..seeing that they have been charged with the teaching/watchcare/protection of the flock...considering the nature of this situation with PW, I think it's safe to say from the teachings of scripture that at the least Dr. Gaines would get a strong rebuke, if not removal from his position. Forgiveness and grace are important Christian principles to bring into this situation I would agree...but that alone is not all Christ has given us in His word to deal with this...those things alone would be out of balance and not the whole counsel of God.
Ezekiel,
Paul judged who about what? I'm getting more and more confused by your comments, could you be a little more specific in your responses and tell me what exactly you're responding to? Thanks.
What's that old cliche? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
The scripture about not judging is about not judging one's salvation and position with Christ.
But we ARE called to judge sin. Otherwise, we couldn't put anyone in jail. Are we not taught to call sin sin?
We absolutely are called to judge sin and deal with it accordingly.
Also, about freedom to keep SG, how about freedom to FIRE SG? Does our supposed freedom to keep a pastor outweigh scriptural guidelines about the behavior and character of a pastor?
No.
allofgrace,
Thanks for the gentle approach. In light of your comments on Paul's dealing with sexual sin, I must believe that he first carried out the principles of Matthew 18. And in this case, Rev. Williams was admitting to his sexual sin, not running from it. Though, with this question brought up, I must note that both Dr. Rogers and Dr. Gaines follow Matthew 18 very seldomly as they do not practice scriptural church discipline as I think they ought to.
I can sense that you are being very honest in your comments that discerning people should oppose Dr. Gaines. Yet as I said earlier today, I'm throwing up my hands. I have prayed about this and looked at the Scriptures and talked with others about this issue... and I simply am not seeing what you guys are seeing. It must be the same way for you guys. And I pray to God that if I am out of line he will show me. But as I said before I think this is a matter of Christian freedom, and by that I mean that good Christians can both disagree and agree on this issue. Truth be known, I think part of the problem is that Baptists don't have completely scriptural church government, but that's an entirely different can of worms that I think would be distracting us from the main issue right now.
socwork said...
What's that old cliche? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
Amen socwork. It doesn't matter if SG intended to hurt the children. The point is that he did.
Did it not cross his mind that more children could be harmed if the pedophile were to stay in office? If he didn't think about that, he is not fit to guard HIS (Jesus) flock!!!
Housewife,
I hope that what I am about to say is received well. Several times now I have made statements that you have either misinterpreted because of haste to reply or twisted purposely, though I would like to believe it was the first. For instance, earlier I was talking about forgiveness to SG, and you asked if that obligated us to remove him as our pastor, though I explicitly addressed that in my post. Now you're taking what I said in my post about Matthew 7 and you are accusing me of applying this to the SG situation. Actually, it was in reference to "ju" saying I was not a discerning Christian, and I actually explicitly said in my post that this verse is often abused and I wasn't using it in regard to SG. So could you please read my posts a bit more carefully?
And ezekiel,
"No wonder we have a disagreement... you can't read the Bible."
I really do not appreciate this comment, and I don't think it's very wise. I asked you for clarification on your previous comment, not out of ill will, but because I truly did not understand what you were replying to and to what you were referencing. I do read the Bible, and I rely on it carefully, and I trust that you do too. But please give me a little more regard than that.
graceupongrace,
I absolutely agree with your comments on church discipline and government..these are root problems to be sure...see?..we have some common ground to stand on...I appreciate you thoughts on agreement/disagreement..I agree that we can agree to disagree agreeably. To clarify something, let me say my issues are not "against" Dr. Gaines in a personal sense. I'm trying to stay focused on the issues at hand...unfortunately these issues do involve people..namely Paul Williams and Dr. Gaines. As I stated earlier, we must bring the whole counsel of God (His word)into this situation and let it fall where it may...and I would add everywhere it falls...including me. Thank you for engaging in a dialogue...I believe that's how these issues will be resolved.
The lady on the radio is ignoring many facts.
She said that we don't care about the victims. I hope she doesn't mean that we don't care about other children being hurt because that's what we're trying to avoid.
She said that we're just doing this because we want SG out.
Actually, this just makes ONE MORE reason for SG to leave.
Oh the willfully ignorant.
She cited that SG was told that the issue was resolved. She admitted that PW told him this.
That's right, let's just believe the pedophile.
And she said that SG acted because the family member came forth and said it wasn't resolved.
He acted because he knew it was about to hit the fan!!!!!
Of course, this is just to ignore the fact that he should have reported it and fired the guy on the spot!
graceupon, please remember that we are also responding to the people calling in to the radio station.
Now, I am not willfully twisting what you post. And I am not being haste to reply.
I reply to what I read. If I did misunderstand, than I'm sorry. Perhaps you are not expressing yourself correctly. Perhaps I need to reread your posts a couple of times. Perhaps both.
Amen to the lady on the radio talking about consequences.
Grace,
I don't condemn you it's not my place.
The Church's Role In Discernment
Discernment is more than the work of an individual person. The Spirit acts within the gathered believers (the Church) so they can discern what to do and be. Within that context, specific persons may be given the gift for leading the church as it discerns. Such gifted people are given a 'spiritual eye' for cutting through facades and confusion, for getting to the heart of the matter. They listen closely, notice what's happening in the world around them, and instinctively know what place it has in God's plans. Someone who's gifted in discernment of spirits can find where evil lurks in good things, and where the Spirit is working when things are going wrong.
VERY IMPORTANT
Everybody needs to go to the MABTU web site and read the clarification issued today by Dr. Spradlin. He did not directly state Dr. Gaines should resign. The reporter ask him a general question and then "connected the dots" to make the headline. VERY unprofessional, but not surprising. Basically the reporter misrepresented the facts by stating that Spradlin called for Gaines to resign. He did not directly make that statement. However, Spradlin (along with James Dobson) stands by the statement that a pastor that does not report sexual abuse should resign.
Ed Thompson
P.S. I guess next on the "attack list" of Gaines supporters will be James Dobson!
Mrs. Rogers is on WREC now!
Just a question. How can anyone say with certainity what Dr. Rogers knew or didnt know about he situation?
ATTENTION EVERYBODY!
THIS THREAD IS GETTING SO LONG. PLEASE MOVE UP TO THE "YET MORE MEDIA COVERAGE" THREAD TO CONTINUE.
Thanks,
NBBCOF
graceupongrace said...
justnotso,
Yes, the wine that Jesus drank was fermented. The Bible warns against being drunk with too much wine. How do you get drunk on grape juice?
Here are a couple verses that I'm sure will bless your heart.
1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
Proverbs 31
6 Give beer to those who are perishing,
wine to those who are in anguish;
7 let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.
4:13 PM, December 21, 2006
graceupongrace,
I can quote more verses but it looks like you like your drinking.
Check out Dr. Rogers tape at Bellevue and I think it is titled wine and beverage alcohol.
If you like your drinking, you may not want to hear what Dr. Rogers say concerning this according to Gods' word.
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