Wednesday, December 20, 2006

Today's Media Coverage - December 20, 2006

Extended prayer meeting tonight at 6:30 at church. Streaming video should be available here. Audio is available here and here.

FOX Channel 13 is supposed to broadcast interviews with David Matlock and Josh Manning at 5:00 p.m. today. They said to stay tuned for more coverage at 5:30, and they may rerun the story at 9:00 p.m. More information is available here.

Channel 5 is scheduled to broadcast interviews with Mrs. Rogers and David Brown at 6:00 p.m. They may rerun the story at 10:00 p.m. More information is available here.

Be sure to tune in!


Channel 3's coverage is here.

The Commercial Appeal's coverage is here, here, and here.

584 comments:

1 – 200 of 584   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Josh,
I just saw your interview on Fox via the internet. Despite what you think the Pastor has done, I believe tonight you went too far in describing him as a "lawbreaker" and listing other things you believe he has done but yet there is no proof. Intimidating staff and members? Some things you say are true, but your attitude about this shows nothing of Christian love and unity. Is it possible your anger and hatred toward Gaines is causing YOU to sin by trying to destroy a man? I think it is time for you to step down, let God handle things (a novel idea for you, I pressume) and give the church time to heal. I feel sick to my stomach after watching you tonight. In 20 years you will not look back on this as a proud moment for yourself like you think you will.

Tim said...

It is absolutely heart breaking to me that Mrs. Rogers should have had to speak for the integrity of her husband. So many of us were beyond doubt of his integrity and the manner in which he would have handled a situtation of this magnitude.

Mrs. Rogers, I am so extremely sorry that this deteriated to this point. I would pray that this not have been as painful as what I can only imagine it must have been. We love you and some of us will never forget what we have been taught and the man of God that taught us. Once again, I shed tears from heart for this.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

This comes from "My Utmost for His Highest" by Chambers. It is the January 11th devotion.

What My Obedience to God Costs Other People

"As they led Him away, they laid hold of a certain man, Simon...,and on him they laid the cross that he might bear it after Jesus" Luke 23:26.

If we obey God, it is going to cost other people more than it costs us, and that is where the pain begins. If we are in love with our Lord, obedience does not cost us anything - it is a delight. But to those who do not love Him, our obedience does cost a great deal. If we obey God, it means that other people's plans are upset. They will ridicule us as if to say, "You call this Christianity?" We could prevent the suffering, but not if we are obedient to God. We must let the cost be paid.

When our obedience begins to cost others, our human pride entrenches itself and we say, "I will never accept anything from anyone." But we must, or disobey God. We have no right to think that the type of relationships we have with others should be any different from those the Lord Himself had (see Luke 8:1-3).

A lack of progress in our spiritual life results when we try to bear all the costs ourselves. And actually, we cannot. Because we are so involved in the universal processes of God, others are immediately affected by our obedience to Him. Will we remain faithful in our obedience to God and be willing to suffer the humiliation of refusing to be independent? Or will we do just the opposite and say, "I will not cause other peple to suffer?" We can disobey God if we choose, and it will bring immediate relief to the situation, but it will grieve our Lord. If, however, we obey God, He will care for those who have suffered the consequences of our obedience. We must simply obey and leave all the consequences with Him.

Beware of the inclination to dictate to God what consequences you would allow as a condition of your obedience to Him.
_________________________________

Friends,

I believe this is the crux of what we are seeing in our church. People are upset because people are being obedient to God and others are angry because this obedience comes at a cost. The cost is that we have lost faith and trust in our Pastor. The cost is that our beloved Bellevue is no longer what we thought it has been. The cost is that the painful truth is being revealed. Who wants to think these things are true about our Pastor???? I certainly don't. Who wants to think that these things in our church are true??? I certainly don't. But the truth is that our church is beginning to be torn asunder. I don't want to be the one with my head stuck in the sand so that I can participate in the choir, or Bible Fellowship, or Children's Ministry, or the Car Care ministry, or any other ministry our church offers, and ignore the skeltons in our church's closet. The truth hurts!!!! But it is imperative for the truth to be revealed so that we have a Christ-centered, Bible preaching body of believers.

Thank you Dr. Spradlin, Josh Manning, David Matlock, and others who may come forward. Thank you for obeying God, no matter what it might cost others!!

pinker socks said...

Josh,
You are an outstanding young man. Thank you for your courage to tell the truth. You represented Bellevue very well!

Bellevue Friend said...

Friends,

As many know children are often afraid of the dark, it's sad when God's children are afraid of the light! Bellevue, a Business meeting must, must be held to address your leadership's credibility! Bring this all out into the light, bar the media and seek the face of God!

What Pastor would want to hold onto a position simply because of it's prominence? Trust me peace trumps position every day! Take that vote of confidence for all those currently in leadership. I believe the Lord is using this blog, to advance these issus into a business meeting!

If in an oficial Church-wide business meeting Dr. Gaines survives a vote of confidence so be it....at least you will have some closure and the ability to start from a position reached by the people of God!

Is Bellevue a Congregationaly Approved Church or not....it's high time you find out!

Anonymous said...

watchingfromafar not so far....

It is sad that you have chosen to attack a man of God rather than attack the problem Bellevue is facing. You say about Josh, "your attitude towaards this shows"....... You judge and find fault with what you perceive to be an "attitude" with Josh rather than being alarmed and greived over the prideful attitude of sg and all he has done to bring this upon himself, and Bellevue.

Look at what problems sg has brought to our chruch in little over a year!

You also attack Josh by stating that his "anger and hatred towards sg is causing you (Josh) to sin by trying to destroy a man".

You cannot judge Josh's motives.

If sg is destroyed by a chorus of believers seeking out truth, then sg has destroyed himself.

Why are you not greiving over what damage this man has done to the chruch in such a short time rather than finding fault with the truth seekers?

What about the command that we are to stay away even from the appearance of evil? How is it you feel so sorry and offended not by a pedifile on staff and the "mistake" of keeping him on and the possiblility of others being harmed by him? What about the reputation of Bellevue being dragged into the mud because it was not dealt with properly six months ago?

How much more damage will you stand by and watch done to this chruch before you open your eyes and say it's time for the truth and some housecleaning?

phil413 said...

watchingfromafar posted:
I think it is time for you to step down, let God handle things (a novel idea for you, I pressume)
Response:
If you saw a woman being raped or a child being molested I guess you would walk away and say "let God handle it". I make no apologies for standing up for God's principles. It has been Painfully obviouss over the last 15 months that SG is leading our church in a dangerous direction. Maybe you are too far away to see the light. Don't feel bad about that, some much closer than you have actually run from the light into darkness.
Psalm 118:6
David Matlock
Intregity Matters

Custos said...

WFA,

Brother, three points:

1) As Paul said, it is a small thing that you judge me. And if you judge, judge rightly, which leads me to

2) My statement that he broke the law is true and he has admitted it. He trespassed on private property, past no trespassing signs, and over a fence. I've no hate toward Dr Gaines, though your description of my "hate" reminds me of the classic liberal strategy of not taking issues but instead using emotionally charged words that are useful but inaccurate. How have I tried to destroy Dr Gaines? I said only what Dr Gaines and other ministers at Bellevue have said. How is telling the truth an attempt to destroy? Further, if the truth destroys, does that mean we should not declare it or that that which is destroys is worthy of preservation? I think not. Jesus said he came to bring a sword. He also said he would divide families. Truth does that. And yes, it does destroy. But destruction is ancillary and necessary only to the extent that anything is false.

3) As for twenty years from now, I won't be proud. I don't have anything to be proud about tonight. If I've done right, to God be the glory. If wrong, to me be the shame. One way or the other, I'm not taking any credit here.

Finally, I'll try this again, but it never seems to catch on: Words mean things.

Josh

Custos said...

All,

I should also clarify one thing. Brooke Sanders misquoted me during her wrap up at 6pm on WMC. I did not say that PW counseled molestation victims. I said that he was in charge of dealing with childrens ministry applicants who marked on their applications that they had been molested. Just for clarity's sake.

Josh

Custos said...

Thanks for the kind comments friends. Praise God for any good that came out.

cjesusnme said...

Josh & David,

Thank you both so much for taking a stand for truth and Integrity! This seems to be something which is lacking in our leadership at BBC. I know that you, along with Dr. Mike Spradlin knew that you would come under attack by those like "watchingfromafar." Josh, I felt after reading I Tim. 4:11-13 today, that I should share these verses with you dear brother! I thought of you when I read them! We are praying for you! David, thank you for what you mean to those of us who know and love you! Your stand in support of Dr. Spradlin means more than you will ever know! We love you and praise you in the Holy Name of Jesus!

Mrs. Rogers,

All three of my children were saved and baptized under the preaching of your wonderful husband. My heart cries for you as you have to see the legacy of BBC being tarnished by these things. We thank you for your willingness to take a stand for truth! We want you to know how much we love you and are covering you in prayer! May God bless you and keep you embarrassed in his loving care!

Joshua 24:15

WOUNDEDANDBLEEDING said...

THE CHARGE
_____________

GOD REACHED DOWN FROM HEAVEN`S THRONE

CHOOSING WITH GREAT CARE

ONE SHEPHERD . HE KNEW HE COULD TRUST

TO GUARD HIS BRIDE SO FAIR


AND SO WITH HIS HOLY HANDS STRETCHED FORTH

HE CHARGED HIM WITH HIS SHEEP

AND ANOINTED HIM WITH GRACE ENOUGH

HIS REMNANT CHURCH TO KEEP


FEELING VERY SMALL INDEED

THE SHEPHERD CRIED FROM HIS SOUL

I CAN NOT DO THIS WORK YOU ASK

I`M SO UNWORTHY LORD

HEARING HIS CRY, THE LORD REPLIED

NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN

WORTHY OF MY HOLY WORK

NOT EVEN ABRAHAM


BUT WHEN I GIVE A CHARGE TO MEN

I ALSO GIVE THEM STRENGTH

TO DO WHATEVER I HAVE ASKED

AND TO DO IT `TIL COMPLETE


AND SO IN HUMBLE ATTITUDE

THE SHEPHERD TOOK HIS CHARGE

KNOWING IT WAS NOT A TITLE

BUT A WORK ORDAINED BY GOD


THEN THE LORD WHISPERED

SOFTLY TO THE SHEPHERD

SPEND MUCH TIME DOWN ON YOUR KNEES

FOR THIS IS HOW MERCY AND GRACE

WILL FIND THEIR WAY TO THEE


AND LET YOUR HEART BE EVER TRUE

LOVE ALL MEN AT ALL TIMES

FOR LOVE IS THE WAY THAT ALL WILL KNOW

THAT I AM YOURS AND YOU ARE MINE


AND REMEMBER I AM WITH THEE

AS YOU SEE THE DAYS GROW DARK

MY WORD`S A PATH UNTO YOUR FEET

AND A LIGHT UNTO THE FLOCK


SO GO MY SHEPHERD, PREACH

AND LIVE THE TRUTH

AND ON ONE GLORIOUS DAY

WELL DONE MY GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT

YOU WILL HEAR ME SAY


IN AWESOME HUMILITY

THE SHERPHERD`S HEART CRIED GLORY

AS HE DRIFTED OFF TO SLUMBER

IN FAITH, WITHOUT WORRY


"FAITHFUL IS HE WHO CALLS
YOU THAT IS ALSO ABLE TO DO IT!"

@JustforJesus Ministries/Sister Pam

WOUNDEDANDBLEEDING said...

Greetings to you dear brother Josh,

I think that underneath your words, I saw a broken heart.

Everything you said was true but the truth is painful to hear.

May the LORD continue to use you in a mighty way for HIS glory!

We love you and appreaciate you!

Under HIS wings and in HIS love,

Sister Pam

allofgrace said...

Well that stream was cut off.

Anonymous said...

custos said,

Finally, I'll try this again, but it never seems to catch on: Words mean things.

Josh


Question: How many children do you have, Josh?

WOUNDEDANDBLEEDING said...

Greetings to you dear Brother David,

You are a mighty man of valor and Brother Charles and I are so touched by the light of Christ which streams through you.

May the LORD continue to fill you with HIS strength and use you for HIS glory!

We love you and appreaciate you dear one!

Under HIS wings and in HIS love,
Sister Pam

stillwaitingandwatching said...

maybejustmaybe....

What does being a parent have to do with standing up for truth?

Anonymous said...

All due respect, sww, my question was addressed to Josh, not to you.

Karen said...

Hello All,

I just got back from prayer meeting. I was very humbled at the apology of one that had been harboring bitterness against me since I am not anonymous on this blog. I told this persoan and I'm telling all of you - watch and be very aware of your attitude on this blog. You may sit next to them in church on Sunday - no matter what happens to the leadership of our church - whether Steve Gaines stays or not - WE STILL ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST AND WE STILL HAVE TO GET ALONG! PLEASE check your motivation for posting here - I had to check my heart and make sure that I am in God's will. I believe I am, but I'll quit if He tells me to. I love the people I've met through this blog and I pray for the people that read it. I pray my words are pure and what I type is truth. If I have offended anyone, please forgive me. Better yet, email me and let me know. We can reconcile quickly.

Love to you all,

Karen

MOM4 said...

maybejustmaybe,
You are obviously not a member? If you think that you are going to interfere here, you are sadly mistaken. Make all the snide comments you want, you are nothing more than the devil's advocate at this point.

WOUNDEDANDBLEEDING said...

Loving greetings to you Sister Joyce.

Our hearts are forever weaved with yours in a love for your dear husband and our beloved Pastor Rogers.

Sister Joyce, you must know by now that the jewels that the Holy Spirit buried in our hearts through Pastor Rogers have not been in vain.

When you see a saint like Mark Sharp so dedicated to the truth that he is willing to die for it, you must smile at knowing that Pastor Rogers` fruit is part of Brother Mark`s fruit!

When you see a young lion like Brother Josh, I just imagine you sigh because you can see a little of Pastor Rogers in him.

When you see Brother Richard, you have to know that Pastor Rogers left him with Holy Spirit jewels.

And when you see Ray, does your heart skip a beat to know that a mighty man of valor was mentored by your beloved Adrian. I think it does.

When Brother Jim walks in truth, you must know that he too was touched by the Holy Spirit`s workings through dear Pastor Rogers.

And there are many more.

When you see Mike Spradlin walking in truth and light, there hangs more of Pastor Rogers fruit.

And what about Jim and Nass and Carol And Joe and David.
Each one bears their own fruit but each carries a little of Pastor Roger`s fruit.

And many of the unknown defenders of the faith, were taught how to recognize truth and how to love truth by dear Brother Rogers.

I cried when I heard the interview because I knew that love has caused you to rise up and speak when you would rather not.

I hope that every person at Bellevue who stands for truth is a real blessing to your life and that you can see Jesus in us!

Merry Christmas Sister Joyce!

Under HIS wings and in HIS love,

Sister Pam

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Well, maybejustmaybe,

My question was directed at you, so please answer it. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Mom4, I wasn't engaging you, either. But guess what? Wrong again! Just about every assessment you have ever made of me is false. I AM a member of Bellevue, and I am not here to start a petty argument. If you choose to be judgmental and not be civil whenever I post, that's up to you -- but to label anyone who opposes your viewpoint as "devils's advocates" and "liberals" just damages what little credibility you have.

My question is for Josh? How many children do you have? And how many women do you have?

Anonymous said...

JOSH

I just want to thank you for speaking up for my children and all of the Mothers and Fathers who could not be there to speak up for ourselves!

You did a wonderful job telling the world what needs to be told.

Anonymous said...

I loved what Steve Gaines said about us tonight.

He encouraged us to stand in the face of the enemy and we will Steve, we will!

Anonymous said...

Josh,

I know you are not going to let your critics bother you - afterall, watchingfromafar would say that Jesus was not showing christian love when he rebuked the pharisees and called them whited sepulchers!

You did well today. Thanks for speaking for those of us who are not so sharp as you! I told my husband I want to adopt you. :)

Anonymous said...

It was just announced that steve gaines would be interviewed on channel three tonight.

Anonymous said...

Josh..I'm so proud of you

Anonymous said...

First SG changed our music, then they started charging for donuts to pay his salary. In the end we will get our Man. Steve Spradlin will soon take over.

Anonymous said...

Josh,

Your hatred is consuming you. Don't let Satan trick you into calling it righteous anger. Turn away from it before it's too late.

I'm praying for you.

David Brown said...

To MJM: Let me jump in here if you don't mind for Josh. I have three children and 7 grandchildren. Now where are you headed?

Like I said on WMCTV, we must protect our children REGARDLESS of friendships, promises, gut feelings and oh yes assets. This matter should have been reported in June. And the minister involved in this should have been removed immediately and not allow access to the Bellevue campus up to as recently as last Friday.

You do not allow children to be in harms way, I am sorry but those are the facts.

One last point, I have spoken out many times against the Catholic Church and yet in all those times I have never been called some of the names I have been called by some of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. And this is coming from my own denomination and my own church. That is a sad commentary for some us that profess to have a personal relationship with Christ. Be reassured I have already forgiven you. But don't worry this old man is not going anywhere. Until my Lord deems my work accomplished, I will continue to speak out against this horror of child abuse. As I have said I do not want to see or hear of one more child abused again. And the only way we will see that is when our religious leaders deal wtih this forthrightly and honestly with total transparency by putting our children first over any thing else.

Humbly and in HIS hands, David Brown

Anonymous said...

blessmewiththetruth,

I hope you get blessed with the truth soon.

MOM4 said...

Mrs Rogers,
I am grieving over your burden in what must be a very dark time for you. I am sorry that you have even had to think of coming to defend the honor of a man who is deemed most honorable among men. I loved Dr Rogers, saw my sons and my husband saved under his ministry, we grew and grew and worshiped and loved and fellowshiped at Bellevue. Not until Dr Rogers retired did we ever see discontent amongst the flock. I am praying for you and your family, that the Lord will heal this terrible pain you have endured to defend your husband's honor.
I want to apologize to you if anything I have said on this blog has brought you any pain or caused your husband to be accused of knowing of these vile acts. We that knew him, have no doubt that he did not know and are disgusted that someone would even question or assume that he did, let alone lay blame at his feet.
You and your children are very blessed to have been a part of his life and we want you to know that we feel that we are blessed to have you and your family a part of ours.
We love you and thank you.

David Brown said...

Oh one other point. Josh and I both sat in AMEN CORNER! That was Dr. Rogers' title for our area of the sanctuary. He would often stop by and visit just before a service to be sure we were awake and ready to say AMEN. He told us often that it encouraged him. Just another tidbit of our beloved Dr. Rogers.

MOM4 said...

maybejustmaybesaid...
"My question is for Josh? How many children do you have? And how many women do you have?"

Will you listen to yourself?

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Maybe I missed something, but where did people see consuming hatred coming from Josh??? I guess those with Gaines-colored glasses on saw it, but I surely didn't. Someone enlighten me please.

pinker socks said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

David...those were the good old days.

Anonymous said...

SWW When you cannot discuss the facts, then you resort to an attack on the person and that's what those with the sg-coloured glasses have been doing.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Ahhhh, gotcha, Rod. Thanks!

allofgrace said...

Well I heard about all the standing o's....so what's on tap for Sunday?...the wave?

Anonymous said...

Are the seats in the sanctuary springloaded?

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Great.....thanks, AOG, sweet tea all over my monitor!

stillwaitingandwatching said...

You too, piglet! BAAAAA HAAAA

MOM4 said...

AOG,
There will probably be a vote of confidence on Sunday - buyer beware.

Anonymous said...

I kept standing up to protest SG and everyone thought it was for a standing ovation. If we only had a larger group of opposition.

Anonymous said...

stillwatching,

After a while God gives people over to their sin, and they don't notice them anymore. In themselves or others.

May God forgive you through the blood.

Anonymous said...

rod,

I don't quite follow you. Could you explain about the glasses?

Anonymous said...

overflowinggrace,

Do you realize how ironic your name is?

Anonymous said...

piglet,

Didn't Dr. Rogers support the Disney boycott?

Anonymous said...

What Rod means is that anyone on Team Gaines is just wrong and out of God's will.

Anonymous said...

What Rod means is that anyone on Team Gaines is just wrong and out of God's will.

I do think that's what he means, but I would like to hear it from him.

pinker socks said...

faithnhope,
You Gaines people need to leave Dr. Rogers alone. He was a man of INTEGRITY! Let his family have peace!

Anonymous said...

If we get what we want and SG resigned tomorrow, how many people would leave Bellevue. Hopefully they will see how wrong and sinful they have been.

MOM4 said...

Trolls????

Anonymous said...

No that's not quite what I mean Owg. What I mean is that they look at the facts in a jaded light; they see what is happening through their paradigm rather than taking the facts for what they are. They are too emotional and think with feelings and not the mind.

Anonymous said...

pinker,

My point was that 'piglet' is using a name from a disney production, which was a company Dr. Rogers spoke out against.

Is the only exercise you ever get jumping to conclusions?!?

Anonymous said...

rod,

Are we the only ones?

Finance Guy said...

Karen,
WE STILL ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST AND WE STILL HAVE TO GET ALONG!

You speak the truth sister. Please keep in mind as you post here (everyone) that one day, this will behind us one way or another, and once again we will have to worship together. Like it or not, we are, "One in the bond of love". Although, it does seem a little disingenuos to sing "sweet sweet spirit" right now.

pinker socks said...

Whatever your point, leave Dr. Rogers alone!!!

Finance Guy said...

fathinhope...
just a little blog curtesy...could you combine some of your responsive comments and questions into one comment post?
These threads are getting long enough as it is.

Finance Guy said...

maybejustmaybe
And how many women do you have?

Did you mean to direct this to Bruce Brooke? I'm not sure he's posting on here.

Anonymous said...

pinker,

I apologize for my last post. This is very frustrating to me.

You shouldn't assume that anyone who mentions Dr. Rogers does so in a negative way, though.

financeguy,

Could you educate me? Some of the posts are so long that I don't think anyone reads them.

cjesusnme said...

From my 7:27 post, I meant to say embraced. Thanks for pointing that out to me! I apologize for any and all mistakes. It's been a LONG day! God bless you all!



We want you to know how much we love you and are covering you in prayer! May God bless you and keep you embarrassed in his loving care!

Finance Guy said...

faith,
Your 9:08 through 9:12 comments could have been all in one comment. Just make sure you separate each question. You keep posting like you are, people are likely to just skip them.

Anonymous said...

fg,

Thanks. I did kind of fire them off, didn't I? My apologies to all, but this is very stressful.
:-)

Anonymous said...

Faith,

What did you mean by saying my name was ironic?

Finance Guy said...

to all...
I didn't see a lot of discussion about the service tonight, but does anyone else feel the way I do about all this talk about "Policies and Procedures?"

It's like the 6 month inaction is being explained away as "I'm not responsible, the problem is we didn't have procedures in place for this sort of thing".

Why does a Senior Pastor with 20+ years of experience of large churches need a policy and a procedure to know what to do when he finds out a staff member is an admitted pedophile?

He needs to stand up and take responsibility for his actions, and quit trying to blame previous administrations.

pinker socks said...

He's got his Bill Clinton "How To" manual out. I feel like we are dealing with Clinton all over again.

allofgrace said...

finance guy,
give him his due...he's a master politician...he knows how to deflect any personal responsibility...his circle of power had better wise up...he won't hesitate to throw them to the wolves to save his own neck.s

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Could someone who was there post a brief about what was said. They cut off the stream right after Jamie sang "Sweet, Sweet Spirit"

I guess singing it makes it true.

allofgrace said...

mom4,
Well then I can't wait to sit on my hands come Sunday.

Anonymous said...

We attended the service tonight. Sat in the middle behind the camera's. Before the service began I watched as Mark D walked in. He got hugs from several people and then one man hugged him and gave him a thumbs up. I thought to myself "oh yes things are going just right give him a thumbs up over it". Shortly after that a steady stream of members approached the Gaines family hugging them and offering support. I would say probably 35-50% of the people in the congregation went down to do this. Then we sang a short song and prayed for a moment and when I opened my eyes SG was at the pulpit. He read a prepared statement that he said had been prepared for him or reviewed by "outside counsel" which is why he was reading from papers. He said that it was a tough last few days. Then he asked Donna to come up to his side. He teared up and mentioned that Dr Spradlin had called for his resignation. He made it clear he was close and harbored no ill thoughts or will towards Dr Spradlin. Then he said something that I think was very telling to me. He said "He asked me to resign. (teared near to crying) I'd like to Stay." No sooner did he say the word Stay than the clear majority of the congregation stood and gave him applause. It was so telling to me because he didn't say I prayed on it and the Lord has lead me to stay or God hasn't shown me it was time to leave. He said "I'd like to stay" as if he has a choice in the matter? It's obvious to me that he thinks he's in control of whether he stays or not. He then went on to say something about the Williams family and how everybody should just "love on them" and pray for them. Not a single word about how horrible a thing had been done no mention of praying specifically for the child mixed up in all of this. Just "love on them". After this I know several of the people that must post on the blog got up and left because many left at this point. Then David Coombs got up and went through the "investigation that will determine PW's standing". I can not for the life of me understand what there is to investigate. He admitted what he did you first terminate him from the ministry then provide he and his family the support they need to start healing. David said this will take 30 days because of the holidays! Then Dr Joe got up and lead us in an extended time of prayer which I really appreciated and needed. I didn't appreaciate what a love fest it turned out to be for SG himself. There was far to much pray for our pastor vs pray for our church. There was some of that as well it just leaned to much towards SG and what a rough time we're all having. And at the end of the service it was the culmination of the love fest asking everybody to come down and surround SG with prayer. My wife and I left shortly after this started. We discussed this all through dinner. I still hold firm to my belief that SG was brought to BBC to serve during this time of cleansing. He is to end up broken. It seems like the Lords will. Then we discussed how the Lord works in wonderous ways. How many Godly mean and women has SG run out of BBC? Many is the answer. Why would the Lord allow that to happen? Possibly to save his Godly children from the shame and embarassment to come at the hands of SG? One could definitely look at it that way. I do. I feel in my heart that the cleansing isn't over. I don't know how much worse things could get I pray they don't get worse. I pray that SG will fall on his sword and take the responsiblity for his failures. There is no way possible that a discerning christian can sit under his leadership. No way. His ministry and motives are tainted. As some have asked there has to be more to this story. There is no way that someone of SG's purported spiritual stature would allow PW to remain for 6 months much less 6 minutes. I feel there is darkness yet to be found.

Anonymous said...

ofg,

My favorite preacher of all time, Adrian Rogers, said that grace was getting something we don't deserve.

I read your post which said I kept standing up to protest SG and everyone thought it was for a standing ovation. If we only had a larger group of opposition. and assumed you were one of those opposed to Dr. Gaines regardless of the truth.

Perhaps I was mistaken (in light of other posts), and my apologies if I was. But even if you are an opponent of Dr. Gaines, shouldn't "overflowing grace" flow to him as well?

Anonymous said...

Faith,

He is a pastor and is held to a higher standard.

Anonymous said...

JU...
I bet your right. SG probably hasn't prayed about any of this. He is just doing what self wants to do.

david S said...

Faithnhope,
May I ask: Do you believe grace means that leaders should remain unaccountable for serious misconduct? The issues being addressed are not one or two “slights” where someone has their feelings bent out of shape. What is being addressed is issues that concern ministerial child abuse and a pastor who covered it up, allowing the man to continue to work with the sheep. I believe the Good Shepherd, who was full of grace, had no problem dealing strongly with those who might hurt his sheep.
Respectfully,
david

pinker socks said...

ju,
Your account of the service makes me sad. I wonder how this makes PW's son feel? What has happened to the people of Bellevue? Where is all of this spiritual blindness and lack of common sense coming from? I am sad beyond any words I could find the dictionary.

allofgrace said...

faithnhope,
The most gracious thing we do sometimes is to hold each other accountable. To sit idle while a brother or sister destroys their own lives and the lives of others around them in the name of grace is the most ungracious thing we could do...think on that.s

Finance Guy said...

ju,
Thanks for the post. I came in late and missed the first part. I too appreciated Joe Jernigan, but marveled that there was no mention of the pain of the victims.
What a day we have come to where our pastor has to address the congregation with statements prepared by legal counsel.
(FG, who's still shell shocked by the whole mess)

Anonymous said...

ofg,

So God's grace doesn't apply to him?

Anonymous said...

FinanceGuy said...

"It's like the 6 month inaction is being explained away as "I'm not responsible, the problem is we didn't have procedures in place for this sort of thing".

Who needs a procedure to handle this man who raped his son, I don't care how long ago it was."Hey Steve here is a procedure for you,"fire the pervert"

Finance Guy said...

overflowinggrace said...
JU...
I bet your right. SG probably hasn't prayed about any of this. He is just doing what self wants to do.


Anyone else remember Harry Smith admitting that the Finance Committee didn't pray about making the $25K contribution to FUMC? Makes you wonder what they do pray for when no one's watching?

Anonymous said...

The most gracious thing we do sometimes is to hold each other accountable. To sit idle while a brother or sister destroys their own lives and the lives of others around them in the name of grace is the most ungracious thing we could do...think on that.

Oh, I have thought on that. Boy, have I thought on that!!! Who's destroying whose life, though?

Anonymous said...

ju

Thanks for the brief. I believe that God is shaking up churches and true believers across the country. This time is so hard but I can look forward to what God has planned. Even if the end is only an end to this trial.

Tie up your laces fellow believers - we've got miles yet to go.

david S said...

fg,
what was the date the gift was given to FUMC?

Anonymous said...

Faith,

Grace should apply to him, but not here. We are in a better position than you to judge pastors and question their prayer life.

OFG

Bin Wonderin said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I have been lurking here for some weeks now but have not posted because I am not a member at Bellevue. I have to tell you though...the mean spirited comments about Dr. Gaines (ie., the comment questioning whether he has a couple of women on the side) do nothing for your credibility. This is a heartbreaking situation on so many levels and I feel for all involved (except the perpetrator). I know many of the comments are borne of frustration but when you look like circling vultures it does nothing for your cause or for the cause of Christ. May God be will all of you as you process these events and may God get the glory in whatever the outcome may be. Many prayers for all of you.

Bin Wonderin said...

I am sad and shocked. I cannot believe a pastor that failed for six months to remove a pedophile from the paid staff at Bellevue got a standing ovation.

Finance Guy - well said at 9:36 PM, December 20, 2006

Ju, I agree with your all of your words from 9:46 PM, December 20, 2006. Especially "There is no way that someone of SG's purported spiritual stature would allow PW to remain for 6 months much less 6 minutes."

What has gripped Bellevue and robbed it's members of their common sense?

Anonymous said...

Thanks JU. Here is a thought about why sg kept PW on. It was to protect himself. You see, sg had already been underfire for letting so many godly men go and unjustly so. There was one man who resigned against sg will because the timing was not right for sg. However, this man resigned anyway because sg had made his job too miserable to stay at any long. Yet,he stood in fornt of the congregation and "prosted too much" said he was leaving on his own accord and made it a point to state over and over again that sg did not aske him to leave. Later I found out that sg had been making his job miserable; so much so that he could not wait any long and just had to leave. Steve used him. So, my GUESS and it is only a guess, is that PW would have been another Bellevue minister to have left and it would have been done without explanation and it would have been fodder for the gossip mills.

2006Huldah said...

To Financeguy:

They pray for the saving of their own hides. No pun intended.

Dee

Anonymous said...

Gaines admitted that waiting 6 months was a mistake. It's time to drop that issue. What more are you waiting for...a resignation? Ain't gonna come.

May God bless Steve Gaines. It's great to know we have a leader who is really strong in these days of attacks from Satan.

Finance Guy said...

david
what was the date the gift was given to FUMC?

I just don't know. Maybe someone else does. I think we only became aware of it in the mid November timeframe.

Anonymous said...

The only thing that my wife and I can come up with is that much of Bellevue's congregation don't have the ability to discern sin and/or understand what should happen following it's discovery? Possibly our pop culture has so desensitzed people that raping and sodomizing your own son is reduced to a mere "Moral Failure". Until a Godly man stands in the pulpit of BBC and pronounces the act as the SIN that it is the Lords will isn't done acting.

Anonymous said...

Hi David. Thank you for your request for my opinion. It's very gratifying to me for someone to ask.

Your question was:

Faithnhope,
May I ask: Do you believe grace means that leaders should remain unaccountable for serious misconduct? The issues being addressed are not one or two “slights” where someone has their feelings bent out of shape. What is being addressed is issues that concern ministerial child abuse and a pastor who covered it up, allowing the man to continue to work with the sheep. I believe the Good Shepherd, who was full of grace, had no problem dealing strongly with those who might hurt his sheep.
Respectfully,
david


No, I think leaders (and followers) should always be held accountable for their actions. There is such a thing as 'grace abuse'. However, I believe that those leaders should not be held accountable by those who have personal vendettas against them.

We should be accountable to the God-instituted authorities that have been placed over us. Each of us will be held to account for what God has entrusted us to. If He calls us to hound Steve Gaines out of Memphis, woe to us it we don't!

However, if we're just unhappy because we sang 'Heart of Worship' instead of 'A Mighty Fortress' in church Sunday morning, well...

Anonymous said...

ofg,

;)

Anonymous said...

Ace,

I understand you wish the issue would just go away. Many of us do. I also wish that PW wasn't still being PAID by the church while out on this leave for a heinous act that he has admitted to and will ultimately receive punishment for. Why does BBC need to pay PW's salary for 30 more days while the inevitable needless investigation takes place. TN is a right to hire right to fire state. No reason to fire a person is necessary but I'd say we surely have good grounds to do so.

david S said...

Someone suggested a timeline be put together. I drew one up last night, but a lot of dates are unobtainable (for me). So if anyone wants to cut that post and add the correct dates I think it would be a much clearer document and help to those just coming in.

Anonymous said...

Jusst saw sg on tv tonignt. I feel like there has been a "bait and switch" and s definite disconnect with reality.

He knew about this 6 months ago and had no intention of an investigation. What is this, we want to protect Bellevue and assure everyone their children are safe? THEY GOT CAUGHT! But are acting like it just now came to their attentiona and they are on it! And what's all this stuff about how forgiving he is to Dr. Spradlin? What does he have to forgive Dr. Spradlin for???!!

Anonymous said...

Ju,

I understand you wish the issue would just go away. Many of us do.

When you say that 'may of us do' referring to the issue going away, I'm assuming you are including yourself. Then let's just drop it for now and wait for the investation to be completed? They're going to do one, so can we not wait patiently for the report to be put together? That's the only way it's going to go away for now...if you and I both drop it.

I also wish that PW wasn't still being PAID by the church while out on this leave for a heinous act that he has admitted to and will ultimately receive punishment for.

If the accusations are true, then yes, he will be punished accordingly. And, yes, perhaps he shouldn't be paid...but that decision has already been made and so we'll have to deal with it...there's nothing we can do about that.

Anonymous said...

FormerBellevueMember,

I see that my post went on three times...I am so sorry...I messed up and don't know how to take the multiples off...please forgive.

Don't worry about it...the 3 posts didn't bother me and you are right with what you wrote. It's time we all respect Gaines.

Anonymous said...

Ace,

As for SG's resignation. A true man of integrity such as "Pastor" who posts here would have already tendered his resignation. I would postulate that a vote of confidence will be called soon and will lay to rest the calls for SG's resignation. I'll also state that it is my opinion that there is more to this story that may well come out. If you would endulge me could you think of any reason why SG would keep PW around for any length of time given that SG is supposed to be the leader of the corner stone church in the SBC? Did the search committee make such a terrible error in their choice? Do you expect me to believ e that SG with 20 years experience doesn't know what to do in a situation like that? I'm interested in your thoughts.

Finance Guy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

My own children see the inconsistences in our pastor.

How can he tell a godly man to quit saying "Amen" and then ask for amens every Sunday?

How can he force godly people out and try to keep a minister who is a pedophile?

How can he refuse to preach at BBC on Wednesday nights but is willing to preach at other churches?

This has been a learning experience for them. God's word is always consistent. Dr. Rogers was consistent and never wavered. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. When a man starts running his own agenda instead of God's, things start to seem off balance.

Liberals support the killing of babies and protect the spotted owl.

My children are showing morediscernment than many adults.

Anonymous said...

I have read this comment many times from Steve Gaines supporters about the blog."You people are hurting the cause of Christ"


How does hiding child rapist from the members of the church ,help the cause of Christ?
Ask a stranger with children to visit Bellevue this Sunday,and be sure to bring their children.What do you think they will tell you,and whose fault is that? The blog or Steve Gaines admission that he allowed this man to remain a minister for six months and only because of pressure he then gave him a paid vacation.
Folks , the world is watching and in the "world " what steve Gaines did is not acceptable.

Anonymous said...

Ju,

As for SG's resignation. A true man of integrity such as "Pastor" who posts here would have already tendered his resignation.

Those are you thoughts and I have mine. Gaines has apologized and admitted some mistakes have been made...can we not forgive him? He's only human too...just like you and I.

I would postulate that a vote of confidence will be called soon and will lay to rest the calls for SG's resignation.

I look forward to this if it happens. We will see that the majority of people in the church reside with our pastor. However, if the vote was taken on this board it'll be 200 people saying he should resign and 4 or 5 saying he should stay. Don't think the majority of people in the church disagree with Gaines just because the majority here do.

If you would endulge me could you think of any reason why SG would keep PW around for any length of time given that SG is supposed to be the leader of the corner stone church in the SBC?

I don't know so I'm not going to talk about his reason...because that would be called gossip.

Did the search committee make such a terrible error in their choice?

No.

Do you expect me to believ e that SG with 20 years experience doesn't know what to do in a situation like that?

No.

2006Huldah said...

Formerbellevuemembercloseby:

If you log in, you can go back to your extra posts and click on the little trash can that will appear at the bottom of every single one of your posts. They can be deleted that way.

Finance Guy said...

ace said...
Gaines admitted that waiting 6 months was a mistake. It's time to drop that issue. What more are you waiting for...a resignation? Ain't gonna come.

Ace,
how many "mistakes" is he going to have to get up there an apologize for...apologies I might add that are forced by the pressure brought right here on this blog and Haywoods site...before we have to ask ourselves that we should perhaps take a second look at him?
Don’t say 7*70. I wasn’t saying how many before we stop forgiving him, just how many before we lose complete trust in his ability to lead the congregation that is Bellevue? This ignores the facts that he has much left to apologize for…mainly the lies and half-truths and deceptions that have been documented here and elsewhere, even though you choose not to agree.

And you are right about the resignation "aint gonna come".

I will remind the board of what happened when Clinton was impeached. Clinton decided to put the whole country through the turmoil rather than do the honorable thing and just resign.
Bob Livingston (R-LA) was all set to become Speaker of the House until Larry Flint (Publisher of Hustler magazine) tried to attack his character for daring to hold the President accountable.
You remember what happened next? When Larry Flint revealed Livingston's past affair, instead of trying to "wait it out", Livingston immediately removed himself from the Speaker of the House position, and resigned from Congress. He knew that in his position, he set an example to the Nation, and integrity demanded he leave.
Unlike the President.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

"what was the date the gift was given to FUMC?"

It was given on Love Offering Sunday, November 12.

phil413 said...

Ace posted:
Gaines admitted that waiting 6 months was a mistake. It's time to drop that issue. What more are you waiting for...a resignation? Ain't gonna come.
Response:
Ace, we finally agree on something. A dear friend of mine likened the story of King Soloman when he threatened to cut the baby in half and the real mother stood up and said "Give her the living baby! Dont kill him!". Steve Gaines had rather see this church be torn apart and become a shell of it's former self than to lose his job.
Psalm 118:6
David Matlock
Intregity does matter

Anonymous said...

FinanceGuy,

how many "mistakes" is he going to have to get up there an apologize for...

It depends. Gaines makes mistakes just as you do. How many issues have you apologized for in your lifetime? Surely more than 3 or 4, right? Maybe in the hundreds or thousands?

apologies I might add that are forced by the pressure brought right here on this blog and Haywoods site

Jim Haywood owes a lot people an apology. How come when his site reports rumors and false information he is praised until the lies are revealed then those issues just...disappear? Jim is not as great as everyone thinks he is. He is far from it. Why won't you ask him about all the lies that were on the site? Why don't you ask him if he enjoys being on TV? After all, he is the one who called the media about all this stuff which was uncalled for. "All hail Jim Haywood" - that is the way a lot of you people are acting here. Guess what...it's not about Jim...it's about Jesus.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Ace for your responses. Were you at the service tonight? Unfortunately I have to agree with you on the vote of confidence. He had better do it soon. I also think ther e won't be as many voting for him as you'd like to believe. The more time that passes the more informed the general congregation will become. But as I've stated already I think a lot of the congregation are just sheep that have no real discernment when it comes to sin and the consequences. They will stay and give SG standing O's until the cows come home because it's the easy thing to do. The hard thing to do is realize for yourself that you cannot be lead by one who can't lead himself properly. Anyway it saddens me the whole thing deeply saddens me and my wife.

MOM4 said...

Ju said...
"The only thing that my wife and I can come up with is that much of Bellevue's congregation don't have the ability to discern sin and/or understand what should happen following it's discovery?"

I noticed on TV that the crowd was not that large, perhaps because those of us who are discerning were driven off in order to form a more perfect congregation for Gaines Worship.
I appreciate the fact that you did notice that he did not determine to stay because the Lord gave him permission to stay - and that he did not say he prayed about it (after reading these posts, I can just about promise that he WILL come out with that on Sunday - whatever it takes, he will do) I posted earlier regarding his lack of prayerful decisions. If the man had prayed about his decision regarding PW, do you think we would be discussing it today?
The root of it all, I believe, is that we have a man who came on board to "teach us how to pray" - that has no experience it the practice of prayer himself (like Dr Rogers didn't have a clue-don't you know that hurt when Gaines made that statement).
Here it is Christmas, and we cannot worship at our church, that is a sad commentary on Steve Gaines.

The Lord will remove him or remove HIMSELF from Bellevue. The prayers of the faithful do not go unanswered.

whynotask said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Finance Guy said...

It depends. Gaines makes mistakes just as you do. How many issues have you apologized for in your lifetime? Surely more than 3 or 4, right? Maybe in the hundreds or thousands?

Ace,
Make no mistake. (pun intended) If he made 15 mistakes a day 365 days a year for 30 years I am willing to forgive him each one. However, at some point, his "mistakes" will have such consequenses that we would be foolish to allow him to remain in a position of such trust and authority.
We can only hope and pray this "Mistake" didn't have serious consequeses for some other innocent victim.

And as far as myself, I am not the Senior Pastor, with 20+ years experience of a large church. I don't think I can be held to the same standard of competence.

Anonymous said...

Ju,

Thank you Ace for your responses.

No problem.

Were you at the service tonight?

I was at church tonight but not in the service...I have other responsibilities I have to deal with so I only saw bits and pieces of the service. I intend to listen to it tomorrow sometime, though.

I also think ther e won't be as many voting for him as you'd like to believe.

I disagree, but I think time will tell.

cjesusnme said...

Mom4,

Amen Sister! I'll see you at GBC this sunday (only because we have no bible fellowship classes)!

Anonymous said...

Ace , given that Paul Williams has admitted to raping his son,why is there a need for an investigation?

Anonymous said...

FWIW,

I'd estimate that about 95% of the congregation stood and applauded when Steve said he'd like to stay on as pastor.

Anonymous said...

FinanceGuy,

If he made 15 mistakes a day 365 days a year for 30 years I am willing to forgive him each one.

That's great to know. (really!) :-)

However, at some point, his "mistakes" will have such consequenses that we would be foolish to allow him to remain in a position of such trust and authority.

Perhaps that is the case, but that applies with every single one of us. Here's the deal...your life is not under a microscope like Gaines' life is at the moment. I think if your life (or even mine for the matter) was the center of focus like Gaines' is then you should be ashamed of yourself and I should too...if that makes sense?

We can only hope and pray this "Mistake" didn't have serious consequeses for some other innocent victim.

And the investigation will reveal that soon, hopefully.

And as far as myself, I am not the Senior Pastor, with 20+ years experience of a large church. I don't think I can be held to the same standard of competence.

True, you are not the senior pastor but I hope that you are a Christian and by claiming to be one we really should be held up just as high in regard.

Anonymous said...

I would agree. Of course my wife and I along with some others near us were sitting so we couldn't get quite as good a count.

MOM4 said...

Is "Ace" Bruce Brooke?
Sounds more like him every day? "There ain't gonna be a meeting", an apology "Ain't gonna come"
It is beginning to sound way too familiar?
Perhaps a clone?

phil413 said...

Ace,
If you and your cronies think SG has so much support, can you explain why there were so few in the service tonight? This would have been the perfect time for SG's followers to show up and support him. With no ss classes for the next two weeks it will be very interesting to see how many show up for the worship services.
Psalm 118:6
David Matlock

Anonymous said...

CJesusInMe,

Amen Sister! I'll see you at GBC this sunday (only because we have no bible fellowship classes)!

There is still a service at Bellevue at 10:00am if you are interested (or anyone else out there without a church home!)

Anonymous said...

NThePew,

Ace , given that Paul Williams has admitted to raping his son,why is there a need for an investigation?

Were you at the meeting with Paul and Steve? Could you tell us exactly what was said between the two?

Oh wait, point proven..you weren't there. That is why this is stated as a 'moral failure' or whatever it is that they are calling it...

And I'm not saying it didn't happen, so don't misquote me. I'm just saying unless you were at the meeting, you need to hush-hush.

Anonymous said...

Mom4,

Is "Ace" Bruce Brooke?

No.

phil413 said...

Ace,
Please respond to my 10:30 post. I would really like to know your thoughts.
Psalm 118:6
David Matlock

Anonymous said...

I couldn't help but notice that Joe Jernigan and Dr. Castellaw stood in support of Pastor Gaines Wednesday night.

Should we turn our wrath toward them too? Seems like a double standard if we don't...

2006Huldah said...

Formerbellevuemembercloseby:

I see what you mean, but I know that "pinkersocks" has never made a Clinton/Gaines comparison in a sexual manner. The return comment of "overflowinggrace" made the inference--not "pinkersocks". Since the latter poster has not been around long enough for me to somewhat know his/her general demeanor on here, I cannot even imagine why he/she would take what pinkersocks said in a womanizing way. Rather, I think overflowinggrace is rather new to this site (I do not recall his/her name having been on here before tonight) and underestimates the rules of decency we try to maintain here. There has never before been a womanizing slur on here directed towards Dr. Gaines. Even those who disagree with us on this site who regularly post on here would confirm this as a fact.

Pinkersocks:

Could you go back to your 9:38 post and explain your mention of Clinton manual so that "formerbellevuemembercloseby" will not have the wrong idea about us, please?


Sorry you had to come in at a rather low point and get the wrong idea. Perhaps it was "overflowinggrace" who had the wrong idea. Either way, sorry for this. We do not want this.

Dee

Anonymous said...

David,

If you and your cronies think SG has so much support, can you explain why there were so few in the service tonight?

Wednesday night services aren't always packed and is a smaller crowd than Sundays. How about we wait until Sunday and see how many people show up then and let that do the talking?

Anonymous said...

Ok Ace I know your saying here that "your not saying it didn't happen" but isn't your willingness to wait for the end of an investigation tantamount to your belief that it's possible that it didn't happen? Even though we have public statements of guilt? It must be really hard to convince you of anything in your regular offline life :)

Anonymous said...

ace said...
CJesusInMe,

Amen Sister! I'll see you at GBC this sunday (only because we have no bible fellowship classes)!

There is still a service at Bellevue at 10:00am if you are interested (or anyone else out there without a church home!)

10:45 PM, December 20, 2006

With every news channel and most radio stations broadcasting news of a child rapist on staff at Bellevue I doubt that there are many without a church home will visit Bellevue especially if they have children.

cjesusnme said...

IWasThere said...
FWIW,

I'd estimate that about 95% of the congregation stood and applauded when Steve said he'd like to stay on as pastor.

Reply:

Uhhhhhh, that is probably because the only people who come to service anymore are his followers. The rest of us go to our bible fellowship classes and don't enjoy hearing prepared statements from his attorneys and half truths and justifications for making "mistakes of the head, and not of the heart."


Ace,

Thanks for the invite, but as you can see above, I need to be fed by a man of integrity and even my 11 year old has asked for more spirtual integrity for them as a Christmas present! I hate to see my children crying over all of this and it is a sad day when children are afraid to go to church! God help us!

MOM4 said...

ace said....
"There is still a service at Bellevue at 10:00am if you are interested (or anyone else out there without a church home!)"

Why would we want to attend and hear another self glorifying message when we can hear a word from God elsewhere? Perhaps if we took clapping and swaying lessons, we could wax philosophical and get something out of it, but I think we would rather worship.
Unless, you are planning on staging your vote of confidence that day...nnnaaaawwww, we would rather worship.
Thanks, but no thanks.

Anonymous said...

Faith,

I don't know that I'd say that Dr Joe was in support of Dr Gaines. He clearly stated that he was "asked" to not preach and to just have a time of extended prayer. If he was clearly in support I don't think they would have had to ask him to do something like that.

MOM4 said...

ace said...
Mom4,

Is "Ace" Bruce Brooke?

No"

Then you must be Larry Ray?.

Anonymous said...

David,

Steve Gaines had rather see this church be torn apart and become a shell of it's former self than to lose his job.

First of all, sorry I missed this post earlier!

This isn't really true. For one thing, Gaines is showing us what a leader should be like...and that is to remain strong in what we believe in when attacks are made. Gaines has been a huge influence to me in how he has decided to stay.

All the people accused Jesus of being a bad person and claimed to be the Messiah and they crucified Him because of that. What would have happened if Jesus just walked away and left those people in peace? Hmm...

Anonymous said...

Surely Ace is not Larry Ray. Please Lord tell me your not Larry Ray.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, I agree with Ace. I think we would all be very surprised if a confidence vote was taken. I believe the majority would ask Steve Gaines to stay.

One of the tactics in a dictatorship (say,in Hitler's Germany) is that if you repeat a lie often enough it will eventually be accepted as fact - no matter what evidence there is to the contrary. Evolution being taught as fact is another example of this.

The leadership has repeatedly told BBC members that the website is full of lies. What lies? People believe this, stay in the dark, and then feel spiritually superior for being in the dark. I am so amazed daily at the people I discover who are so easily misled and I understand how the anti-christ will so easily command the loyalty of his followers one day...

No, I'm not calling Gaines the anti-christ. I just see amindset forming in the church. People seem to expect so little of our leaders now. Why? We never had to forgive every Sunday before?

Anonymous said...

Ace calm down now your likening SG to Jesus. This is what some people have said is part of the real problem at BBC.

Anonymous said...

Didn't Dr. Joe say that the Bellevue family affirmed Pastor Steve as God's man for the job?

If Dr. Gaines is chased off, so should his supporters be...

Anonymous said...

Ju,

Ok Ace I know your saying here that "your not saying it didn't happen" but isn't your willingness to wait for the end of an investigation tantamount to your belief that it's possible that it didn't happen?

It means exactly what it means. I'm willing to wait. I'm not going to gossip about P.W. and his family until I hear the investigation reveals. Even after then, I'm not going to gossip about it but then I'll be able to talk about the situation more intellegently.

It must be really hard to convince you of anything in your regular offline life :)

I don't know about that...you'll have to ask my friends about that to see what they say. :-)

MOM4 said...

ace said....
"All the people accused Jesus of being a bad person and claimed to be the Messiah and they crucified Him because of that."

Are you comparing Steve Gaines to Jesus?

They spit in Jesus' face, what do you think SG would do if someone spat in his face? Turn the other cheek, hardly! More like demonize them from the pulpit, run them off off or seek legal counsel to know how to deal with it.

Anonymous said...

ace said..Were you at the meeting with Paul and Steve? Could you tell us exactly what was said between the two?

Oh wait, point proven..you weren't there. That is why this is stated as a 'moral failure' or whatever it is that they are calling it...

And I'm not saying it didn't happen, so don't misquote me. I'm just saying unless you were at the meeting, you need to hush-hush.

10:47 PM, December 20, 2006

Ace if you had a son ,would let him spend a night at the Paul Williams home? Or your younger brother?

Anonymous said...

Faith,

That is exactly what will happen. What happened at GBC when it happened? The people that stood up for what that church felt was their core beliefs reclaimed their church and stayed and the rest moved on to some place else.

Anonymous said...

Mom4,

Then you must be Larry Ray?

No. For further questions on if I am "this" or "that" person please email me at acefromthebbcforum@gmail.com - I don't want to fill up this forum with useless posts like this.

whynotask said...

I was not at the service but channel 3 news scanned the worshippers in attendence and I cannot believe how few people were there. I've seen more mexican's looking for work on Jackson Ave. then that. 95% of a few hundred is not much. I am also surprised SG came to speak. Must needed to plead for his job. Ace, He didn't appear very strong in his teary request to keep his job. I believe he smells the coffee now! He could start with Mark Sharp and work his way back to where things started. That would help things along.

Anonymous said...

Here's a quote from the 'saving bellevue' website:

From a Gardendale WEB site not affiliated with the church there

"I was repeatedly victimized by a family member."


Truth, or innuendo?

Anonymous said...

I listened to the prayer meeting comments by Dr. Gaines and David Coombs.

I have been a pastor longer than Dr. Gaines and I can not imagine listening to a staff member make a confession of molesting his son and conclude it did not need further action -- especially if the fact had been kept from the prior senior pastor for 17 years.

That lack of disclosure itself would be a red flag even if the sin had been consentual adultery. But when a minister has sexually assaulted his son and hidden it... waiting 6 months while assuming everything was just fine is unbelievable.

I do not understand why Dr. Gaines does not openly acknowledge that his decision not to take decisive action was a major lapse of judgment and ask the forgiveness of the congregation.

There does not need to be a investigation before coming to this conclusion. Dr. Gaines should have acknowledged his poor judgment and asked for forgiveness last Sunday following the announcement. He should have done it tonight.

His failure to do so communicates to me that he thinks his decision to extend confidentiality to an admitted pedophile who molested his son was a good one if PW was telling the truth and it only became a problem when doubt later surfaced.

Unless this is fully dealt with Bellevue could become Ichabod Baptist. I do not want to see God take His hand off of Bellevue.

Dr. Steve J.

1 Kings 4:21 And she named the child Ichabod, saying, The glory is departed from Israel:

Anonymous said...

Ju,

Ace calm down now your likening SG to Jesus. This is what some people have said is part of the real problem at BBC.

Can we not compare people to Jesus with certain aspects of their life? I'm not saying Gaines IS Jesus...there is a difference...

MOM4 said...

ace said...
Mom4,

Then you must be Larry Ray?

No. For further questions on if I am "this" or "that" person please email me at acefromthebbcforum@gmail.com - I don't want to fill up this forum with useless posts like this.

AAWWW Ace, This is fun!

Anonymous said...

Mom4,

Are you comparing Steve Gaines to Jesus?

I just told a story about Jesus...is there a problem with that?

They spit in Jesus' face, what do you think SG would do if someone spat in his face?

Here's the problem...you people are essentially spitting on Steve Gaines with your posts of hatred and lies.

Turn the other cheek, hardly!

I think we've already seen how Gaines has reacted. With a forgiving heart and remaining strong.

Anonymous said...

NThePew,

Ace if you had a son ,would let him spend a night at the Paul Williams home? Or your younger brother?

Why don't you ask me that again when the investigation has been completed. Thanks.

david S said...

Okay, Ace,
What's the bottom line? Why are you still supporting a leader who makes such serious mistakes with the sheep?

To me, the key issue was a big deal. The treatment of Dr. Rogers should have been exceptional. I understand if that's not a big deal to you. But when a mistake is made concerning children, it gives rise to the question: Is there anything you would not support? (I'm not being mean, I am curious)

Anonymous said...

FaithNHope,


Here's a quote from the 'saving bellevue' website:

From a Gardendale WEB site not affiliated with the church there

"I was repeatedly victimized by a family member."

Truth, or innuendo?


Read the entire page. They are not talking about a Bellevue or Gardendale staff member...they are talking about just someone in their family from what I understand. Again, the SB.com site gives us the appearance of evil.

MOM4 said...

Blind as a bat you are:)

If you thing this is "bad", check out his former church members and see what all they have to say..

westtnbarrister said...

Faithnhope,

"I was repeatedly victimized by a family member."

That statement is 100% true and it has nothing to do with Gardendale. That statement was posted here first last Friday after the victim learned PW was the molester. I know the victim and she is not a poster to the forum, but she felt she should speak up that once about what happened to her. Her statement gives you insight into how PW's sin affects more than just his family. I am praying for his family and anyone else victimized by him.

phil413 said...

Ace, Tell me your not comparing SG's leadership qualities to Jesus!
We need to have a new segment of the service each Sunday. There should be 10 minutes set aside each Sunday for SG to apologize or to justify his "mistakes of the head". If those could be posted each Sunday in Bellevue Today, then we would all know what the sermon would be about ahead of time. SG does a wonderful job of tying his sermons in with his justifications.
Psalm 118:6
David Matlock

Anonymous said...

When is the worship service at GBC this Sunday?

I was going to stay home and hear Dr. Rogers but maybe we should start getting to know the people at GBC....would love to hear the choir under brother Jim.

Anonymous said...

I am amazed. I have watched from a distance for months what began as a man saying amen too much, some men climbing a fence, credit card issues, removing your long time Music Minister, and finally... yes FINALLY a molestation within your "Beloved Bellevue" that may finally bring enough attention to your "Beloved Bellevue" to bring down your Pastor.

At what price... At what Price to Your "Beloved Bellevue".... Who is going to be left... Who is going to want to come be a part of your "Beloved Bellevue"

What started as a case of sour grapes on a blog has turned into a full fledged assault on a Pastor and believe it or not on your "Beloved Bellevue".

I firmly believe that in 4 months, your blogs and the SavingBellevue site have done more damage to your "Beloved Bellevue" than the good that 30 years of Dr. Rogers has done.

In the end, who wins... The enemy....

You have all stood silently by and watched as DR. Rogers LWF organization has profited from sermon after sermon as it is played across the nation.... MILLIONS of dollars have gone through that organization as a result of videos being purchased of your "Beloved Bellevue" and the July 4th specials and your Singing Christmas Tree specials... No one has ever said a word... no one dared to question Dr. Rogers or LWF...

If you are successful at running off your Pastor, who would come... WHO would want to be under the magnifying glass... Who has NO skeletons... and Who is PERFECT ENOUGH to live up to Dr. Rogers....

Where will your "Beloved Bellevue" be in 5 years... What damage will the kingdom suffer as a result of this seemingly endless witch hunt?

I pray that God will somehow use this to win souls. I have never been a fan of a church split but in this case, it would probably be for the best!

Anonymous said...

David,

What's the bottom line? Why are you still supporting a leader who makes such serious mistakes with the sheep?

Christ has given us forgiveness and it only appropriate that Gaines gets ours. I am supporting Gaines because I do not believe all the trash that is going on about him...it's as simple as that.

But when a mistake is made concerning children, it gives rise to the question: Is there anything you would not support? (I'm not being mean, I am curious)

Yes, actually, there are some things I don't support... regarding Bellevue too. *gasp* imagine that coming from my mouth! There is a lot I disagree with...today...and 10 years ago. but you know what? It's not about me....it's about Him (Jesus)

Anonymous said...

ace said...

Wednesday night services aren't always packed and is a smaller crowd than Sundays. How about we wait until Sunday and see how many people show up then and let that do the talking?

I doubt that attendnce for this Sunday would be an accurate barometer. First, a goodly number of the "two times a year church goers will be there for Christmas. Secondly, there will be a group of people there to watch the train wreck.

Anonymous said...

ace said Why don't you ask me that again when the investigation has been completed. Thanks.


Ace you are one sick person.Remember Paul W admitted to raping his .

Anonymous said...

JU said...
"There is no way that someone of SG's purported spiritual stature would allow PW to remain for 6 months much less 6 minutes. I feel there is darkness yet to be found."

Sadly, I feel this in my "gut" also. Something that has always been puzzling to me is that my mother stayed with our dad after I told her what he was doing. As an adult looking back, I concluded that she stayed due to fear...fear that she would have to support herself and three children alone? I'll never know, but I see the same response by many BBC members who are angry that this grievous sin has been made public - many members who don't place much weight on this matter of 1) our sr. pastor not being forthright with the congregation; and 2)having a pastor on staff who confessed to sexually abusing his own son.

Why the fear? Why the anger? Regardless of who is involved, why wouldn't we want this putrid sore cut open so we can clean it, bind it up and start the healing process?

david S said...

Ace,

He Lives in You.

Which of these do you not believe?

Jumping the fense
Calling Mark Sharpe Hezbollah
Locking Dr. Rogers out of the office
Treatment of Dr. W.
Gift to FUMC
Letting a child molester stay on staff with no investigation for 6 months

Mark Wiley said...

Paul Williams was dangerous to children 3, 6, 10, 15, etc., etc....years ago. Nothing was done. And one of you "Jim Haywood Worshipers" let the cat out of the bag on another thread. He said that Steve or somebody had maybe found a file and that is why Paul was confronted. If there were a file, and I'm sure there was, then who knew about this before Steve got there? After the investigation is done, I'm sure it will be revealed. But when it is, the mindless Jim Haywood crowd will claim that the documents are fake or some other conspiracy-type jargon.

Anonymous said...

Josh: You are so sure that things have been done wrong under Dr Gaines . . . Well, tell us about the "don't ask - don't tell" policy over the past 15 or so years regarding homosexuals in the choir? Well? . . . Tell us! . . . We deserve answers! Were the past leaders wrong? Did they turn a blind eye? Were they not wrong? What do you know about this and when did you first know? Or were you one of the first to know?

Anonymous said...

amazed

Would you have left Haggard in the pulpit after his sins of homosexuality and drug abuse?

I suppose you are angry at those who exposed him and ruined the good name of his church? You must be ALL about appearances. You know, Jesus was not about appearances. All this has happened and needs to be dealt with. Sorry it isn't pretty.

Mark Wiley said...

Everybody is trying to make a big deal out of Steve changing the locks on his door to keep Adrian out. Why would Adrian want to go into his office? Anybody in thier right mind would change the locks, including you. So shut up Satan!

scmom said...

Quick question... I have seen posts saying that the live feed was cut off tonight. I am in another state and I watched the service. I watched Steve Gaines get up, say that Mike Spradlin had asked him to resign (via CA), then say that he wanted to stay. I even saw the standing o. I wonder why I could watch it but it was cut off for others??? Just wondering...

phil413 said...

Amazed posted:
MILLIONS of dollars have gone through that organization as a result of videos being purchased of your "Beloved Bellevue" and the July 4th specials and your Singing Christmas Tree specials...
Amazed, not that it really matters but these functions rarely if ever broke even from a financial standpoint. To Dr Rogers and the previous administration it was about winning souls.
Psalm 118:6
David Matlock

Anonymous said...

ace one last question
Were you a juror on the OJ Simpsom trial?

Anonymous said...

David,

Tell me your not comparing SG's leadership qualities to Jesus!

You read my post. Take it how you want to.

We need to have a new segment of the service each Sunday. There should be 10 minutes set aside each Sunday for SG to apologize or to justify his "mistakes of the head".

Unless you are perfect, drop it. I have a feeling if I looked at your past I could find some horrible things you have personally said, thought, or done.

If those could be posted each Sunday in Bellevue Today, then we would all know what the sermon would be about ahead of time.

Well, well, well...aren't you a comedian?

SG does a wonderful job of tying his sermons in with his justifications.

Maybe you should try focusing on the Word of God during the sermon instead of Steve Gaines and you'll get something out of the sermon.

Anonymous said...

Mark Wiley

Desperate for a distraction are we?

Mark Wiley said...

Here are some of the people who are brave enough to spew out hatred, but spineless enough not to put thier name: mom4 / whynotask / financeguy / faithnhope / ju / piglet / nthepew / cjesusnme. Post your names. I dare you.

cjesusnme said...

Amazed said...
If you are successful at running off your Pastor, who would come... WHO would want to be under the magnifying glass... Who has NO skeletons... and Who is PERFECT ENOUGH to live up to Dr. Rogers....

REPLY:
A man of integrity with nothing to hide! That is who BBC needs behind our pulpit! Can I hear an AMEN?

david S said...

Mark: "Everybody is trying to make a big deal out of Steve changing the locks on his door to keep Adrian out. Why would Adrian want to go into his office? Anybody in thier right mind would change the locks, including you. So shut up Satan!"

Uh, no. I have NEVER changed a lock at our church. That is overseen by a Grounds committee, not the pastor.

To change the lock to keep one man out is vendictive. Did he think he was going to steal his books?

Anonymous said...

Mar Wiley

"So Shut up, Satan!"????

My, my, some of that christian love and forgiveness oozing out.

Anonymous said...

Phil413

I actually order a copy of the July 4th special this past year.... LWF told me that they get THOUSANDS of orders for that and it would be several weeks... It took 6 weeks to get a copy. This was a copy of a Celebrate America from at least 6 years ago and I think it was $20 for a VHS copy... Are you telling me they aren't profiting anything if they get THOUSANDS of orders? Are their books as open as you all want Steve and Donna Gaines to be with their non profit?

Anonymous said...

Astounded,

I doubt that attendnce for this Sunday would be an accurate barometer. First, a goodly number of the "two times a year church goers will be there for Christmas. Secondly, there will be a group of people there to watch the train wreck.

You are unbelievable. You just can't take anything I say, can you? There always have to be 'ifs' and 'buts'....

Anonymous said...

I think at least one or two new posters here are trying to allude to the sexuality of Josh Manning? Does it seem like there doing that? Trustandobey is one of them.

Anonymous said...

NThePew,

Ace you are one sick person.Remember Paul W admitted to raping his .

I am not sick. I just don't participate in gossip unlike...well...you.

phil413 said...

Mark Wiley,
Thanks for bringing such a sweet spirit to our little blog. I suppose you stand and sing that very song proudly at church. Can you do no better to defend SG than to resort to name calling? You just keep posting, your proving our point with every post.
Psalm 118:6
David Matlock

allofgrace said...

This isn't about Bellevue...God's kingdom will do quite fine without it..unless I'm mistaken...it did quite fine before it ever existed...this is about something bigger than Bellevue. You folks that weep and wail over poor Steve and poor Paul...you think YOU are SO loving...where's the victim?...do you care one iota for him?...I'm not seeing it...you're only interested in giving your standing 0's for your beloved "messiah". You could care less about what the truth is...or for the victim..as long you have YOUR man in the pulpit...I've got a strong feeling you're gonna get him in spades.

Anonymous said...

David,

Jumping the fense
Calling Mark Sharpe Hezbollah
Locking Dr. Rogers out of the office
Treatment of Dr. W.
Gift to FUMC
Letting a child molester stay on staff with no investigation for 6 months


Those are not the primary issues I disagree with...but since you brought it up.

Points 4, 5, and 6 and I don't 100 percent agree with....

As for the locks issue, perhaps if you knew what keys unlocked the doors you would drop this issue as well.

Bepatient said...

I have heard many people here refer to the "other information" that you say will soon be revealed.
I respect the fact that you do not want to reveal it yet, but I am curious why I hear some many people allude to it but one of the common themes I here around here is the desire for transparency?

And I am interested to know if anyone can or is willing to tell my why it is being kept under wraps for the time being?

I may be wrong, but to me threatening with this information is exactly the type of thing you would not respect from the current administration.

I must feel the same way you do about the church- I am not in the inner circle so I don't get to know.

Anonymous said...

Mark Wiley

ExcUUUUUUUse Me! I am protecting my identity from the leadership at our church whom I do not trust and who tries to drive out anyone who disagrees. I've never felt the need to disguise myself before the gestapo showed up. Some of our best sources would be removed if they gave their real names. Do you think we're naive?

Anonymous said...

NThePew,

ace one last question
Were you a juror on the OJ Simpsom trial?


No.

david S said...

Ace,
6 was admitted to

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
phil413 said...

Amazed,
You might be "amazed" to find out that Dr Rogers didn't even draw a salary from LWF. Once again it was about bringing people to Jesus and that is what seems to be missing at BBC now.
Psalm 118:6
David Matlock

MOM4 said...

Mark Wiley,
If I published my name, I would put my family in the same hostile position as others are, and I am not willing to subject my children to the abuse that other have had to endure after they unwittingly used their real name.
That is my decision and not yours to make.
If the "key" incident were handled properly, it would most certainly NOT be a big deal, but, alas, like so many other mistakes of the mind, it twas not. You will need to go back and search the blog for the sorid details. There is a little more to it than changing the locks.



11:24 PM, December 20, 2006

cjesusnme said...

Mark Wiley,

I am not a hateful person and I don't appreciate you insinuating such! I have been at Bellevue for a long time and am sick about the lack of integrity in our church! Are you a member? Do you have children? How can you justify that a man be left on staff after admitting to raping his own son? I am calling it like I see it and if you can't handle the truth, then I am truly sorry! I don't "hate" anyone. I hate the sin!

CH said...

Mark Wiley,

Here are some of the people who are brave enough to spew out hatred, but spineless enough not to put thier name: mom4 / whynotask / financeguy / faithnhope / ju / piglet / nthepew / cjesusnme. Post your names. I dare you.

Step down off your high horse, Mr. Wiley. Not everyone here is anonymous, and not everyone here will be intimidated by your tactics.

As has been explained countless times here and elsewhere, we're not "spewing hate." What a mindless charge for you and others to make! Was Jesus spewing hate at the thieves and moneychangers in the temple? At the Pharisees? Have we become so politically correct that calling out sin and egregious ethical violations for what they are, and questioning the outright abuse of power by those in trusted leadership positions, is now labeled "hate"? Is this your tactic to shut up those you disagree with? I'm sorry, Mr. Wiley, you'll have to do better than that.

You forget, sir, that you're speaking to fellow brothers and sisters in Christ who love our church dearly, have years invested here with our families, and want NOTHING but the truth and to see Bellevue returned to its former status as a beacon of integrity and hope to a lost and dying world.

Collin Houseal

Anonymous said...

phil413

That is pretty common for a non profit to not pay the owner a salary... that is usually sent down the pipeline to pay all of the family members who work for the non profit... There are lots of benefits that come with not taking a salary from a non profit... but follow the money. I would bet you won't see the tax returns of the family members of a non profit CEO!

Anonymous said...

Amazed,

I actually order a copy of the July 4th special this past year.... LWF told me that they get THOUSANDS of orders for that and it would be several weeks...

And that statement is true.

This was a copy of a Celebrate America from at least 6 years ago and I think it was $20 for a VHS copy...

If you wanted the new version you should order through Bellevue's Bookstore. LWF orders their copies of Celebrate America directly from Bellevue and they specific what year they want.

And, yes, LWF is making a profit in case there is confusion.

Anonymous said...

Mark Wiley, just because you have a screen name that says Mark Wiley it doesn't necessarily mean that is who you are. So based on that thought process you can't prove who you are to me so you might as well be anonymous to me and the rest of the board. It is true that anonymity is probably the fuel that enabled this blog to light the way to many of the truths that have been laid to bare. Do you think we would have heard about a molestation in the church otherwise? Or would we have gotten other closely held secrets from inside the church otherwise? Just like the Rape Hotlines or EEOC hotlines at your workplace there is definitely a place for anonymity when dealing with sin.

Mark Wiley said...

Hey David Matlock,
It is called "righteous idignation". I am tired of you people who have made Adrian a God pick apart evry little thing Steve does or does not do just because a bearded man puts out some trash on the internet.
I think that I have seen tons of hatred come out of the "Jim Haywood" camp. So don't go throwing stones at me.

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