Thursday, December 21, 2006

Anyone With Information...

A woman named "Valerie," in a phone call to WREC Radio, stated that PW, in interviews, asked her questions of a sexual nature that were so explicit she couldn't repeat them on the radio. I've heard several women who tell similar stories. She said she confronted him later and said, "I know who you are and what you are," and that he just stared coldly at her and didn't say anything.

This statement appears on savingbellevue.com.

Anyone with any information that could possibly be related to this case, please contact the proper authorities. The "proper authorities" are not David Coombs or anyone on staff at Bellevue! And lest anyone thinks otherwise, it's not Jim Haywood, savingbellevue.com, or this forum either. (I never dreamed of anyone thinking that had been suggested, but at least one person did, so I just wanted to make that clear.)

And for anyone who thinks David Coombs is the person to be "investigating" anything of this nature, you might want to read this statement by the ex-sister-in-law of Mr. Coombs.

She quotes Mr. Coombs thusly...

"As Christians, we are all slaves of Christ without rights. A Christian wife cannot demand the right to not be hurt physically by her husband."

Then she states, "It will be interesting to see what conclusions the Bellevue committee reaches concerning Christian children under this man's leadership."

Indeed it will.

58 comments:

Anonymous said...

Though I disagree and suggest that you do go to Bellevue authorities, we all have our opinions.

I should also add something else here... SavingBellevue, Jim Haywood, and this site are not the proper authorities for those wondering and despite what Jim might tell you.

Bin Wonderin said...

ace said:
Though I disagree and suggest that you do go to Bellevue authorities, we all have our opinions.


Assistant District Attorney Kevin Rardin says

"There's a duty to report it to authorities, even though the alleged incident may have happened a number of years ago,"

and

"One of the reasons it's so important to follow the law and to report these matters to the authorities -- even though it may have occured many years ago -- is that the person may still have access to children," Rardin said. "So not only is there a risk of harm to the child who was allegedly victimized. There's a risk of harm to other children. In my mind, that's why it's so critical to follow the law."

and

"The duty to report is clear and people need to follow it"

Karen said...

ace,

for once we agree - the blog or savingbellevue.com have no authority over anything. I admire the maker of this blog and Jim Haywood for the stand they're taking.

Also, just a question for you: If the DA charges Steve Gaines for his inattention to reporting the PW matter six months ago, will you blame Jim Haywood and the blog for helping these facts come to light?

Not wanting to start a fight; I've never done that with you. I'm actually going to dinner in a sec so you can send me an email if you'd like to.

Thanks! Karen

David Brown said...

Ace: Maybe you missed what the the Asst. DA said this afternoon. Surely you are not tellling us to ignore the law are you?

I am so used to the "review boards" and special "committees" doing their own risk control and damage assessment. All they really do is stall and try to figure out ways to discredit your information. I have seen that happen to many times. I have seen these special committees stall an investigation until the statute of limitations run and then say the claim is not creditable. That was what Kevin was referring to in his statement earlier.


After properly reporting what you know THEN you can go to the committees and review boards. But please let the people that have the skills to interrogate and get to the truth without fear, intimination or reprisals do their thing.

I am curious why now we suddenly have the "proper" people in place to handle this when 6 months we did not. We should have. Like Kevin said this is 2006 and there is not any reason not to report suspected abuse. And to quote one famous Pastor, "I did not fall off a turnip truck yesterday, snicker, snicker"

New BBC Open Forum said...

ace wrote:

"I should also add something else here... SavingBellevue, Jim Haywood, and this site are not the proper authorities for those wondering and despite what Jim might tell you."

Good grief, ace. Jim Haywood has never told anyone that he, savingbellevue.com, or this site are the "proper authorities." Please don't, as you've so often accused others of doing, put words in people's mouths!

Anonymous said...

Who has a higher law. The united states. or God.

Now i will write something fighting the person above me...Your not right David,and BBC Forum.

But hey, lets just keep this forum going strong,lets see how many opinions we can voice, that way someone who dosnt go to our church, will look at this forum and say, hey this church looks like all the members are hypocrits im not going there...

Housewife said...

that way someone who dosnt go to our church, will look at this forum and say, hey this church looks like all the members are hypocrits im not going there...

Yeah, especially if we don't fire the pedophiles and the ones who harbor them.

Anonymous said...

David,

Surely you are not tellling us to ignore the law are you?

You are correct. I am not telling you this. Feel free to report what you know to Bellevue AND the proper law folks.

Housewife said...

Obviously, reporting to Bellevue what we know is useless. I don't want to wait another six months until this is taken to the next step.

Anonymous said...

NBBOF,

Good grief, ace. Jim Haywood has never told anyone that he, savingbellevue.com, or this site are the "proper authorities."

He implies it. Jim has been enjoying all the spotlight that has been on him and his site and deep down inside he wants it to continue for quite some time.

Please don't, as you've so often accused others of doing, put words in people's mouths!

I'm not doing that. I meant what I said. Jim believes that he is higher in authority than the folks at Bellevue regarding this issue. If he doesn't, then it's time for you to speak up, Jim.

Anonymous said...

Housewife,

Obviously, reporting to Bellevue what we know is useless.

Oh really? Why do you think that?

Housewife said...

Actually, I'd rather tell Jim than BBC brass. At least Jim is willing to find the truth. BBC brass only wants to conceal it.

Jim has done more to help bring the truth to light than SG.

Anonymous said...

The person above me is ...just wrong.

Maybe someone else should of already delt with him instead of a pastor we chose who had only been serving for 6 months....lets see even if SG had fired him 6 months ago, i am willing to say people would be on this site complaining about him just coming into this church and firing more people...But i mean complaining alot always helps.

Housewife said...

Why do I think that? Surely you jest.

6 months?????

Please. No brainer.

Housewife said...

We complained when he fired someone for simply asking questions.

I would NOT complain for his firing a pedophile.

moosergs said...

Are the "authorities" at Bellevue made up of the same folks that were on the CC. i.e. Chuck Taylor, Harry Smith etc. I hope so, those men know how to get to the bottom of things!!! NOT

Anonymous said...

No jest. The people that run the websites and post these forums do not care about Gods will. They are doing the opposite of what the bible requires us to do. They care about GETTING POPULARITY and having people look to them as being HEROES. Whats better tearing apart the reputation of a man and dragging a church into the ground-or dealing with your problems with the people you have problems with. Who leads the church? is it lead by the people like goverment, or did we ask SG to be our pastor and lead our church?

Large majorities will say "I was at this church first, he can leave" ...because the bible says, if things arnt the way you like it make sure everything in this world fits to please you.....wait is that the bible?

Housewife said...

If it wasn't for these posts, the truth would NEVER come out.

It is not God's will to conceal pedophiles.

Anonymous said...

killcow,

Just an observation...

These are ad hominem attacks (an ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem, personal attack or you-too argument, involves replying to an argument or assertion by attacking the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself. It is a logical fallacy.)

Beyond that... if you want any credibility (if you want someone to consider your point), it would befit you to speak respectfully and calmly.

I know you didn't ask for tips, but please consider your tone if you want someone to listen to what you have to say.

Psalm 4.4a
In your anger do not sin...

Housewife said...

And don't forget that it was SG who started running people out of the church because they disagreed with him or had questions.

It is right to call for the resignation of a pedophile-concealing pastor. It is not right for the pastor to push people out for asking questions.

MOM4 said...

KillCow said...

Maybe someone else should of already delt with him instead of a pastor we chose who had only been serving for 6 months...."

Pardon me - "serving for 6 months",
- so we hired a pastor with 6 months experience, who NEVER took an ethics class, who repeatedly makes mistakes in judgement and who never takes responsibility for it?

Mercy KC, the man has 20+ years in the the pastorate, has his doctorate degree, and a following of the wealthiest men in Memphis to fend off the congregation.

At what point should we consider him "experienced and able"?

And you had rather pack it off as a dead man's fault - shame on you!

Anonymous said...

if i wrote serving AT OUR church for 6 months would you ever be happy?

Housewife said...

KillCow said...
if i wrote serving AT OUR church for 6 months would you ever be happy?


This doesn't change what mom4 said one bit!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Everybody,

Please don't feed the trolls! We've acquired a new one by the name of "killcow."

NBBCOF

Housewife said...

I noticed.

Anonymous said...

Hey killcom writes like our old friend hisservent.Notice no caps and bad grammer

New BBC Open Forum said...

trucker,

I don't think so. But the two are certainly of the same mind(less)set.

Anonymous said...

Well he/she will have to depend one s someone else to feed them tonight .After listing to Mrs Rogers I'm to sad and somber to get to involved.

Anonymous said...

NBCCOF,

I don't think so. But the two are certainly of the same mind(less)set.

Now, now, now...was that person attack really necessary? You just had to put in that (less) didn't you?

To quote yourself, "Don't feel the trolls."

Anonymous said...

Could someone fill me in as to what Mrs. Rodgers said tonight on the radio?

Anonymous said...

mrs.who? said...
Could someone fill me in as to what Mrs. Rodgers said tonight on the radio?

8:46 PM, December 21, 2006

Who ,the most important and saddest part of her call to me was when Mrs.Rogers said yhat she asked the leadership of the church to clarify that Dr.Rogers did not know of the molestion of Paul Williams of his son,and that Gaines did not honer her request.

Anonymous said...

Thank you very much for the information, it also saddens me. I feel so bad for everything she is going thru. She is a wonderful and Godly women.

Anonymous said...

I have a theory: There is someone on this blog that has all the information, but for some reason they are sitting on it and are only giving bits and pieces as they see fit. Why? Two weeks ago someone hinted about the PW case, why didn't they spill it?

New BBC Open Forum said...

mrs.who?,

I can address your question. There was a rumor going around three weeks ago that a current staff minister had confessed to Steve Gaines that he'd molested his own son several years earlier. Most of us didn't learn the minister's name until some time after that, but that's all we knew. Our sources for this information (and I'm not privy to everyone's sources) asked that it be kept quiet until PW's son and certain people with definite knowledge of the issues had an opportunity to meet with Steve Gaines in the hopes that SG would handle the situation properly. We were simply honoring that request, and I'm not acquainted with anyone who had any more knowledge than that, nor did I have any other knowledge of the situation besides that rumor.

Once Steve Gaines announced the name of the minister and confirmed the "moral failure," and it became evident that he had not handled the situation appropriately, it was then okay to mention PW's name here. The only thing I've requested since then is that the names of his family members not be mentioned out of respect for them and that the rumor which came up today about there being criminal charges being brought against PW not be discussed because, again, that is merely a rumor at this point.

I am not "sitting" on any information and giving out "bits and pieces." I simply don't want to publish anything without verifying it first, and I would think you'd appreciate that. In spite of my requests, a few others haven't been so careful and have sometimes made comments about things that were either false or not yet verified. This isn't a game, and I'm not into teasing people. We are dealing with serious issues here, and it's imperative we deal with them seriously.

NBBCOF

Ed_T said...

ace said: Jim has been enjoying all the spotlight that has been on him and his site and deep down inside he wants it to continue for quite some time.

Please ace, tell us how you know this. Cite sources please lest we accuse you of "gossip".

After hearing Mrs. Rogers on the radio tonight and learning that SG and the rest of the BBC, Inc leadership ignored her request to clear Dr. Rogers of knowledge of this (when PW himself said Dr. R had no knowledge of the incident in qutest), it is quite apparent that Steve Gaines lacks the personal integrity and wisdom to occupy the pulpit of BBC.

Anonymous said...

Ed,

Please ace, tell us how you know this. Cite sources please lest we accuse you of "gossip".

Have you ever been to Jim's site? He took it down, but he had it in big bold letters "10,000 hits on Wednesday" - what would be his purpose for writing that....it's because he is loving the publicity, that's why. Go ask him.

Tim said...

trucker,

I did not hear the broadcast that Mrs. Rogers spoke on. Did she specifically identify Steve Gaines as the person that refused to honor her request?

New BBC Open Forum said...

ace wrote:

"Have you ever been to Jim's site? He took it down, but he had it in big bold letters "10,000 hits on Wednesday" - what would be his purpose for writing that....it's because he is loving the publicity, that's why. Go ask him."

I don't have to go ask him. Jim commented to me just tonight that there were over 10,000 hits on his site yesterday, and in the same sentence he said (I paraphrase), "But that's not important. This isn't about numbers." Unlike some people, who possess the "ability" to get inside someone's head and "know" what they're thinking, I'll just have to go out on a limb here and speculate that perhaps Jim came to that same conclusion and hence took that statement down. Ya think?

Tim said...

nbbcof,

Did you hear the broadcast that Mrs. Rogers spoke on?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Yes, Tim. I did.

Tim said...

nbbcof,

Did she specifically say that Steve Gaines had denied her request to clarify that his reference to past people was not directed toward Dr. Rogers?

Anonymous said...

choice_is_yours said...
2006Huldah,
ace,
allofgrace,
Amazed,
ASK,
Astounded,
Bellevue Friend,
Bepatient,
Billy,
Bin Wonderin,
BlessMeWithTheTruth,
CH,
charis,
cjesusnme,
Custos,
David Brown,
david,
Ed_T,
faithnhope,
FinanceGuy,
i-flyaway,
IWasThere,
Karen,
kingdomrevolution,
lucy,
maybejustmaybe,
Memphis,
MOM4,
nthepew,
overflowinggrace,
phil413,
Piglet,
pinker socks,
Rod Almondmartanti,
scmom,
stillwaitingandwatching,
Takethecrossesdown,
telos,
Tim,
trustandobey,
watchingfromafar,
westtnbarrister,
WOUNDEDANDBLEEDING...

Merry Christmas!
Peace be with you!
God bless you!
Jesus loves you!

Choice

P.S. Isn't amazing to think that God has a book in Heaven with all of us saint's names in it?
10:02 AM, December 21, 2006
http://www.angelfire.com/in3/amazed/MaryDidYouKnow

And peace and joy be to you also.

This battle is not about family fighting family; it is about truth vs falsehood. It is not about me nor you; it's all about Jesus.
God does not fight for the proud; He fights for the humble. Let us humble ourselves, falling on our faces before Him, pleading His word back to Him. The LORD is a warrior - He has overcome. Let us live in the light of that truth, dear brothers and sisters in Christ.

Dear Joyce, My heart hurts for you tonight. I ask our Father God to hold you close, comfort you, and uphold you.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
CH said...

To those who honestly think reporting further information to Bellevue's designated "project coordinators" will get us anywhere:

Why don't you ask Paul Williams' son if it's been an effective strategy for him? Look what they did with the information he brought forward...

CH said...

Coach's Girl,

I think you're all ridiculous, hiding behind the anonymity of a coded username spouting Scripture and spewing insults.

Hard to take this admonition seriously when you post anonymously yourself. Regardless, not all of us are anonymous. Click my profile (and others' as well) for our real identities.

And if you haven't been at Bellevue lately since moving out of state, I wonder what basis you have for commenting on what's been going on?

Frankly, your arguments are similar — though not quite as bad — to many others' on this forum who are asking us to be quiet. Christianity is supposed to be some feel-good, sunny-day, let's-all-get-along-no-matter-what life. Malarkey. Throughout the Bible you'll find countless instances where God's men and women stood up and called others to repentance and restoration. That's all we're doing.

This is not about defaming or ruining anyone. It's about saving a church, Christ's church, our church. It's not about pronouncing judgement on anyone; it's about calling our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ to make Scriptural judgements of situations, issues, and people... in other words, discernment. Apparently far too many have forgotten the meaning of this principle.

New BBC Open Forum said...

choice_is_yours wrote:

2006Huldah,
ace,
allofgrace,
Amazed,
ASK,
Astounded,
Bellevue Friend,
...

Karen,
kingdomrevolution,
lucy,
maybejustmaybe,
Memphis,
MOM4,
nthepew,
overflowinggrace,
phil413,
Piglet,
pinker socks,

"Isn't amazing to think that God has a book in Heaven with all of us saint's names in it?"


{sniff} Isn't there a name missing from that list? {bwaaaaaa} NASS will now recede to a dark corner to lick the wounds inflicted by choice's glaring omission.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Merry Christmas to you, too, choice! :-)

NASS

Anonymous said...

Paul Williams needs to resign immediately on his own. If he does not tender his resignation by noon today, his "administrative leave with pay" needs to be terminated, along with his employment at Bellevue, by 2 p.m. by our Pastor.

Those who have information to contribute to an investigation of child molestation need to make two calls, and in this order: 1) The first call should be made to DCS, registering all information you know with the legal authorities who are handling this matter. 2) Your second call should be to the church's internal investigation committee, the one being led by David Coombs and others. You should then carefully document your information in writing and send it by certified mail to DCS, our Pastor, and David Coombs, clearly indicating that you are copying all the above individuals. By doing the above steps, transparency will take place and a documentation trail will be established to assure that all parties have been given the same information.

I appreciate so much Mrs. Rogers' statements on Mike Fleming's program, though I truly regret that she had to make them.

I do still have one question, though. Was PW lying to Bro. Steve when he claimed that someone on staff had known about this incident at the time it happened 17 years ago, and that he had been receiving counseling through our own Biblical guidance staff for his issues? If he was not lying, and we know the person in question was not Dr. Rogers, then who knew and failed to act then? Does anyone know the answer to this question? Can that answer be posted here?

Karen said...

Maybe,

You are were up at the same time this morning! I just couldn't get my fingers to work to type at that hour. God bless us all today!

karen

Karen said...

maybe,

I know pedophile's aren't known for their truthfulness, but if PW had the wherewithall to say specifically to Steve Gaines that Dr. Rogers didn't know, I tend to believe him. PW's hind end was on the line yet he went to the defense of Dr. Rogers not knowing about the incident. PW could have sold Dr. Rogers under the bus so PW could look better (if you will), but PW didn't so I think he told the truth about Dr. Rogers not knowing about the incidents.

Mrs. Rogers has been nothing but gracious since Dr. Gaines has arrived, but bless her for speaking the truth. I can't stand it that Dr. Gaines has disregarded her request to tell the church that Dr. Rogers didn't know. Another self-serving moment in the life of Dr. Gaines.

If the DA presses charges then this whole situation is out of our hands. Can we then go back to being brother and sisters in Christ and stop the bickering??

karen

Finance Guy said...

maybe,
I have it on good authority that this has been known by the Biblical Guidence office for some time. Not sure it if was 6 months or 17 years. However, the staff member in question is a good guy, and i'd hate for him to get roped into this.

Anonymous said...

Here you are my friends.

http://www.filecrunch.com/file/~ihwy7y

Bin Wonderin said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

financeguy

you said that the counselor who has known about this ' is a good guy'

Please help me to understand how someone who Knows that a child predator is lose amoung children and does not report it could be considered ' a good guy'

Do you have AnY idea how painful it is to be sexually abused as a child. It never ever goes away.

So please help me to understand how this guy can be a good guy. In my opinion, he belongs in jail.

Child perps never stop molesting children umtil there are no children that he can molest. They cannot help themselves. The only way they stop molesting is when they are behind bars. The Counselor, OF ALL PEOPLE, should have known this.

Did we learn nothing from the catholics...

Anonymous said...

REPORTING SUSPECTED CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE IN THE STATE OF TENNESSEE-
If you suspect a child is suffering(or has) from child neglect, child abuse or child sexual abuse the law says you MUST REPORT abuse to the authorities. Call Department of Children's services 24 hour reporting HOT LINE:
1-877-237-0004 or your local Police or Sheriffs Dept.[DO NOT CALL CHURCH or INSTITUTION OFFICIALS WHERE THE INCIDENTS MAY HAVE OCCURED]
The name of the person reporting suspected abuse is kept confidential and he/she cannot be prosecuted for making a report in good faith. However, knowingly making a false report is a criminal offense.
Once a report is made the authorities investigate and if there is enough evidence to believe that abuse has occurred the Child Protective Investigative Team decides the appropriate action to protect the child and the community. This could result in criminal charges being placed against the offender.
PLEASE NOTE: Those knowingly hiding of similar information and not contacting the proper authorities should be reported under the Dept. of Children's Services too.
IF IN DOUBT...IF THE LEAST CONCERNED...IF THE LEAST SUSPICIOUS...REPORT THE OFFENSE. YOUR "BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT" BELONGS TO THE CHILDREN...NOT TO LEADERSHIP THAT WANTS TO HIDE THEIR OFFENSES!
Again, pick up the phone and call 1-877-237-0004 NOW!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

My question for someone in the know here is, if it is not safe for Bellevue women with inappropriate experiences with PW to go to the internal committee headed by David Coombs,and we aren't children so can't go to the authorities....who do we go to???

New BBC Open Forum said...

gmommylv,

I'd still go to the authorities. If they're conducting an investigation, anything you can tell them could be relevant. Tell them and let them decide if it's important, as it may reflect on the character of this minister and show a pattern of inappropriate behavior. I'm not a lawyer, but unless you wanted to file a sexual harrassment suit, I don't think you have any recourse. I also don't think you'd get anywhere with that. They'd consider it "Christian counseling" and dismiss the case. (IMO)

I realize hindsight is a lot better than foresight, and when something like that happens, you can never say how you'd react because you'll probably react differently than you think you would. However, when something like that does happen, I would hope that a woman would have the clarity of thought to say, "I BEG YOUR PARDON! THAT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!" and storm out of his office protesting loudly to everyone within earshot. In other words, make a great big scene! Nobody should have to accept this kind of sick behavior from anyone. Maybe if a few people had spoken up years ago someone would have uncovered this "moral failure" years earlier. Again, hindsight is always better than foresight.

NASS

Bereans said...

gmommylv-

It sounds like you have information that could be helpful to the District Attorney's office. It that is the case, I'm sorry for whatever you have been subjected to.

Perhaps you should ask to speak to Kevin Rardin the Assistant DA. Tell him you have information regarding the Paul Williams case.

They will know what to do with your information.

I will pray that you will have courage and clarity in speaking to them.