Tuesday, December 05, 2006

Communications Committee Thread Continued

Continuation of previous thread...

425 comments:

1 – 200 of 425   Newer›   Newest»
Tim said...

To Mark Sharpe,

I can not find words to express how thankful I am for your willingness to be present this past Sunday. Thank you so much for standing in the truth and refusing to compromise. May God richly bless you and your family. Your family as well are appreciated for their willingness to support you in this endeavor.
Thank You and again.
Tim

Anonymous said...

hisservant-1 and others like him remind me of some of our senators.

During an abortion debate one senator passed around pictures of dismembered aborted babies. The response was as it should have been - shock and disgust. BUT not at the cruelty of abortion-no, the liberal senators were shocked and disgusted that one of their peers would bring in such distasteful pictures.

I feel that Mark Sharpe and the rest of us (to smaller degree) have been treated this way.

Anonymous said...

Tim

About that marriage analogy - I know just what you mean ;)

david S said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Theme of the day at the last 2 meetings (which I attended) was "I don't know" At all cost divert and protect seemed to be the goal, not getting answers to the unanswered questions, changing the system and fixing a problem.

Unanswered questions from the next to the last meeting (does anyone know the answers):

1= When is the next business meeting (the bylaws mention a "monthly" business meeting and Yrly directors meeting)?

2= Can a member at BBC make a motion at the monthly business meeting?

Anonymous said...

Taking Back Lost Ground

Joyce and I decided we wanted some birds in our back yard, and our neighbors told us about purple Martins. We asked, “How do you catch the Martins?” They said, “You just have to create the right atmosphere, and they will come.” So we got the specific kind of bird house, put it up on a long pole; and now we have purple Martins. They nest in our yard because we have put out a welcome mat for them.

Many Christians have unwittingly given a place to the devil by creating an atmosphere where he feels at home. It’s as if they’ve put out a welcome mat for Satan.

But be encouraged; you are not a helpless victim. Satan can never take any ground that you do not give him. And there is a way you can remove Satan if you have given him a place. You can take back lost ground.


The Removal of Sin

Remember Satan wants an atmosphere in which he can live comfortably, and that atmosphere is sin. Look at Ephesians 4:25, and begin reading about some of the sins Paul mentions specifically that make a welcome place for the devil in your life.


Lying - Paul says, “Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth…” Satan is very comfortable in a person who is a liar. John 8:44 calls the devil a liar and the father of lies. Every time you tell a lie, you are acting like the devil; and you’ve given a place to him.
Anger - In both Ephesians 4:26 and 31, anger is mentioned. The devil is filled with anger (see Revelation 12:12). And if you are an angry person, you have definitely given Satan a beachhead and a campground in your life.
Stealing - Verse twenty-eight says, “Let him that stole steal no more...” In John 10:10, Jesus referred to Satan as a thief. And if there’s a spirit of thievery in your life, you’ve built Satan a nest.
Filthy Speech - And then look in verse twenty-nine: “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth...” In verse four of the next chapter, Paul adds, "Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting...” Filthy speech is a haven for the devil.
Bitterness - Paul warns of bitterness. In verse thirty-one, he admonishes, “Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice” Few things will make the devil feel more at home than bitterness.
Slander - “Evil speaking” is just another way of saying slander or gossip. Satan is a slanderer. He’s even called “the accuser of our brethren” in Revelation 12:10. Slander is a vicious tool Satan loves to use.
Malice - Malice is the desire to hurt someone. Is there somebody you want to get even with? Then, the devil is sitting in the corner smiling. You have given a place to him, and you need to take it back.

The Renewal of the Spirit

After the removal of sin, there must be a renewal of your spirit. Verse twenty-four instructs us to, “… put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

While Satan feels at home in sin, the Holy Spirit does not. The Holy Spirit is just that — the Holy Spirit of God. Therefore, holiness makes him feel at home, but unholiness grieves Him (see verse thirty).

Put away those things that have caused the Holy Spirit to be grieved, so He may feel at home in your heart.

The Resistance of Satan

Even though you’ve removed sin and invited the Holy Spirit to come and fill you, Satan has to be evicted. He’s not going to just walk out. James 4:7 instructs us, “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

Now, if you haven’t submitted to God, don’t try to resist the devil. You haven’t got what it takes. You have to resist him in the name of Jesus. But when your heart is clean and Christ is enthroned through the Holy Spirit, you can say, “I belong to Jesus Christ. My sin is under His blood. There is no unconfessed, unrepented-of sin in my life. I have enthroned Christ, and I am filled with His Spirit. You are trespassing on my Father’s property. In the name of Jesus and with the authority of the Word of God; I command you to leave.”

Jesus gives us power over our enemy (Luke 10:19). But you have to learn how to use it. It’s time God’s people took back lost ground!



I know I have spent a lot time with dealing with Dr. Rogers point of, filthy speech, malice and slander. Maybe this might help some to get back to the basics of encouraging one another, and not too worried what someone else did to someone else.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, I should have put Dr. Rogers name at the top of the last post, it is his thoughts.

Sorry for the confusion

choice_is_yours said...

Thank you, conncernedchrch.

That was a beautiful post and it applies to me. I am guilty of giving too much room for Satan to be comfortable in my life.

That was a beautiful message.

And Dr. Rogers had the integrity to give that message so that people would listen to it and be inspired to live more like Jesus.

If only I could have that kind of integrity.

Choice

Tim said...

concernedchurch,

Your post is wonderful.

The Removal of Sin.

Lying - Who is lying about the dream issue?

Anger - Who exhibited this in his reference to Hezbollah?

Stealing - Who has taken $1000 for a cheerleader camp and claimed it as a moving expense?

Filthy Speech - Who has referenced his brothers as "adversaries"?

Bitterness - Who has said that they will not meet with a brother to resolve an issue?

Slander - Who has characterized those that seek truth as evil and satanic?

Malice - Who has suggested that those do that do not like all of the above leave?


The Renewal of the Spirit

After the removal of sin, there must be a renewal of your spirit. The spirit of Bellevue cannot be renewed without the removal of sin.


The Resistance of Satan

James 4:7 instructs us, “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” Resistance is seldom the easy way and the devil conducts combat before a retreat.

choice_is_yours said...

Father in Heaven,

Thank you for yesterday. These kind and patient people let me day dream about what it would be like to gather together and worship you. Yes I know we could go meet in the fellowship hall and worship you as a group in a prayer meeting. That might be a good idea. Or in the parking lot if we were forbidden from meeting inside. Or perhaps some saint owning a secular warehouse might have kindness enough to shelter us with a heated, well-lit place that worship might be possible for some cold sheep in a dark time. I don't know how you want us to worship you. Please help us on every Tuesday from now on to think of how we might worship you as a group. Thank you for feeding us with your Word which speaks to us everyday.

In Jesus's name,
AMEN.

For information on has this Luke's Good News for Bellevue began, click my profile.

Click for context for today's passage.

Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Tim said...

PS.

The actions against others are a symptom of the disease of sin. It is not limited to the pulpit but permeates our leadership and deacon body.

Anonymous said...

Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church has a set of "lay-elders," a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The rest of the congregation needs to be awakened to this.

While the pastor took a step or two in the right direction there is still a long way to walk... Here are a few important changes that would help during these days of crisis in leadership:

1. Harry Smith, John Caldwell, Steve Tucker, Chuck Taylor, Bruce Brooke, and others who are part of this lay-elder "power block" need to be relieved of positions of influence for a long time.

2. The signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services for the church. These people should be recused from committees that review bids for their services.

3. Former staff should be allowed to address the congregation and/or the deacon body either in writing or in person without ANY fear of reprisal regarding their exit from BBC. Gaines has confessed to mishandling Dr. Whimire's exit... The congregation now needs to hear from Dr. Whimire--and several others--by letter or in person IN THEIR OWN WORDS. The congregation needs to know how their leadership has treated and is treating ministers who leave the service of our Lord through BBC.

4. The END of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members. AND the END of signing non-disclosure statements. All ministers who have been pressured or asked to sign such non-disclosure statements should be released from them in writing by BBC!

5. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... AND any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!

6. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman.
**The current bylaws mention "monthly" business meetings! When were they changed??

7. A transparent committee selection process.

8. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.

9. No church credit cards. Pay your own way and then turn in an expense report like I do at my job.

10. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members. Also:

11. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.

12. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.

13. Thorough communication with the Congregation for ANY capital project well in advance of any vote. Building prayer buildings or any other type of building should be brought through proper channels to the congregation for prayerful consideration--not coerced "rubber stamping."

By the way, Dr. Rogers taught us quite a bit about prayer. As a matter of fact, I believe all of the current buildings ARE prayer buildings already. He and Dr. Whitmire also taught us quite a bit about worship also... but that's another topic.

14. Bellevue needs to reject Warrenism fully and finally.

15. Congregational nomination of and election of all of the Board of Directors as called for in the 1929 bylaws.

16. Higher standards should be put in place for the hiring of "ministers." Seminary training should be considered a normal prerequisite.

17. An admission the cheerleader tickets are not a legit moving expense and reimbursement to BBC.

18. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.

19. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. Free tickets for the host and wife are fine but not for anybody else.

20. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.

All in my opinion as usual.

Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."

Anonymous said...

Tim,
"But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.'"
John 8:7

Healme

choice_is_yours said...

In today's passage please note that no matter what, we are called to love our neighbor as ourself.

Even with our troops fighting honorably for a good cause in the war in Iraq, the Christian is called to love even Hezbollah members as our self. Love even Mohammad.

Some of you are aware that I've spent years telling fundamentalist Muslims about Jesus being the only way to know if you will go to Heaven. I've used the Internet to do this.

I believe that if they accept Christ, then the Holy Spirit will lead them to live a life of love towards us.

The passage today speaks of love for one's enemy.

This sets the Christian apart from all the others on earth. We must never hate another human being. We must never sacrifice love for truth.

This is how people know who we are. Not from our words, but from our love.

This is how people know who Christian soldiers are. We even use our soldiers to give out food and help people in floods, etc.

We must never sacrifice the truth.

God will provide the unity.

If we love our enemies as our self, we will have an opportunity to share the truth (truth=Jesus=gospel= witnessing& discipling)

and as we submit to the Holy Spirit's leading, unity will result.

Unity that is man-made such as "let's take 200 and show up at another church" is folly. Unity that is God-made is the result of the Holy Spirit's leading coming from love and turth. God will provide the way.

Tim said...

healme,

Luke 19:45-46
45 And He went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
46 saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Anonymous said...

Tim,
And, yes, Jesus was without sin!

Anonymous said...

Tim,

you wrote:
concernedchurch,
Your post is wonderful.


Did you read the last paragraph?

I know I have spent a lot time with dealing with Dr. Rogers point of, filthy speech, malice and slander. Maybe this might help some to get back to the basics of encouraging one another, and not too worried what someone else did to someone else.

The contrast between choice_is_yours' response and yours worries me. Can you not read the words of our former pastor and apply them to your own life instead of someone else's?

Did you, and just not share it?

Anonymous said...

yet another grand list. and yes, that is your list and not God's

Tim said...

healme & faithnhope,

So is it your belief that the things that quench the Spirit in our church should be concealed and not revealed?

Do you also believe that a great portion of the New Testament should be removed from the cannon of Scripture because it confronts the problems within the church?

God deals with individual sin personally, He deals with corporate sin publicly.

westtnbarrister said...

hisservant,

Please post God's list.

Anonymous said...

Tim wrote:

So is it your belief that the things that quench the Spirit in our church should be concealed and not revealed?

You lost me there, brother. My concern is for you, not the church. If you hear a word from our Lord and immediately put it in terms of Steve Gaines and Bellevue, you're missing the point.

Anonymous said...

faithnhope posted: Tim,

you wrote:
concernedchurch,
Your post is wonderful.

Did you read the last paragraph?

I know I have spent a lot time with dealing with Dr. Rogers point of, filthy speech, malice and slander. Maybe this might help some to get back to the basics of encouraging one another, and not too worried what someone else did to someone else.

The contrast between choice_is_yours' response and yours worries me. Can you not read the words of our former pastor and apply them to your own life instead of someone else's?

Did you, and just not share it?



REPLY: I have noticed the same thing.

Anonymous said...

Tim,

I give this only as an illustration, not an accusation.

Matthew 7:3-5
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

I recently read the book "The Calvary Road" by Roy Hession. I was humbled by his interpretation of this verse. He said that maybe the speck we are trying so hard to get out of anothers eye is actually a reflection of the plank coming out of our own. That thought, brought me to my knees. Woe, is me because I am a man of unclean lips.

I do not, as you assumed, believe we should not confront sin. But, I do believe we are treading on very dangerous ground when we are quick to point out the sin in others.

Just a warning from a fellow believer, not a condemnation. I am sorry if you took it that way.

Heal me

Anonymous said...

Great post concerned church and good observation hisservent1

Anonymous said...

Tim: your first response to that wonderful message from Dr. Rogers was your normal finger pointing and finding every fault possible in others.

Tim said...

faithnhope,

This entire blog is about the concerns of Bellevue and not me personally. It therefore would stand to reason that the comments that are made here would revolve around the church.


II Corinthians 1:8
8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:

Paul's God breathed words stressed that it was important to inform the church of troubles both internal and external.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Hey hisservant-1!

I asked you a question last night, but that was before the thread change, so perhaps you missed it. Did you attend the CC meeting on November 26th, and if so, were you wearing a white pullover sweater? I didn't know the man and wouldn't recognize him now if I saw him, but I'm just curious if that was you.

Anonymous said...

sorry. yes I was there and no I was not wearing a white sweater. sorry

Anonymous said...

Tim,

I thought (it might have been you or someone else) the church is the people?

If that is true than you are the church.

New BBC Open Forum said...

hisservant-1,

Thank you for answering! (No apology necessary.) But you are a deacon, aren't you? Not asking which deacon, just if you are one.

choice_is_yours said...

Tim,

A word to the wise, the bears and trolls are hungry today.

Let them fight with each other.


Hisservant, I find you to be much more Godly than pastor. Don't you think pastor owes Karen an apology?

choice_is_yours said...

Healme,

Don't you think pastor owes Karen an apology?

Anonymous said...

i guess I need to try and find the post from Pastor that you are referring to.

New BBC Open Forum said...

choice,

You've got mail.

choice_is_yours said...

faithnhope,

Don't you think that pastor should read that excellent post about Dr. Rogers and try to remove the breeding ground for Satan in his life?

Anonymous said...

Choice,
I am sorry, can you tell me about what?
Healme

Anonymous said...

Choice,

What is the definition of a busy body?

What keeps coming up over and over again, what someone did to someone else, so therefore since you observed that action, you demand answers.

Karen and I already posted concerning the apology, so what is it to you. The party that was offended has moved on, but you haven't.

Does this pattern sound familiar?

See how gossip works, a person wants to talk about offenses, so if one does not engage them, they move to the next, until they find another busybody.

Check out 1 Peter 4:15, and look at the other people busybodies are grouped in with.

choice_is_yours said...

Healme,

Welcom to the forum. It is always nice to have someone new here.

Why are you taking Tim to task considering you are so new here?

Thanks,


p.s. to moderator, no email arrived, but i'll be going offline soon anyway.

Anonymous said...

Choice,

look at healme's question. See how that works.

Nothing against healme, but it is human nature for the need to know, otherwise known as pride.

This how Joseph Smith (founder of latter day saints) got his foot in so many peoples life, he had the answers because the people wanted to know.

From the king foliet discourse:

You want to know who god is, I will tell you, he was a man just as we.

Food for thought, and a lesson to myself as well.

Anonymous said...

Tim wrote:
This entire blog is about the concerns of Bellevue and not me personally. It therefore would stand to reason that the comments that are made here would revolve around the church.

The blog is about Bellevue, and I assume that you are part of it. Therefore, the blog is about you and it's my responsibility and privilege to be concerned about you.

For you to use the points from the message from Dr. Rogers the way you did cheated yourself out of a blessing. You said the quote was 'wonderful', but was it because it was inspiring and motivating, or because it was something you could use?

Paul shared with the church in Corinth because he wanted to share his life with them. Do bear in mind that not all of Scripture is propositional. Also realize that the is a tremendous difference between what the Scripture says and what your interpretation of what the Scripture says (or anyone's interpretation, for that matter).

I will say this as gently and respectfully as I know how (which is not one of my strengths, unfortunately). You took a wonderful quote from Dr. Rogers, emptied it of all content, and turned it into a tool to use for you own agenda. Is it possible you're sometimes doing the same thing with God's Word? Is the seed falling on good soil, or by the wayside?

Take a minute or two to reflect on that.

Anonymous said...

Choice,
I didn't realize I was taking Tim to task. That was not my intention. I was just responding to what I read.
Healme

Anonymous said...

healme,

I don't think 'pastor' is a serious poster. Just ignore him.

Anonymous said...

Pastor,
While I was trying to answer Choice's question in context, maybe there was part of me that was just curious. I am sorry if I offended you. There goes that speck and plank thing again. I am so thankful for God's mercy and grace because it is so easy for me to fall into sin.
Healme

choice_is_yours said...

Will someone lead a prayer?

choice_is_yours said...

Please pray for God name to be remembered, and none of ours...

MOM4 said...

pastor said...
Choice,

"What is the definition of a busy body?"

Where did you get your definition?

Please note that a busy body is someone who sticks their nose in someone elses business!

While Your definition is synonymous,lets use the original definition.

See below:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
bus·y·bod·y /ˈbɪziˌbɒdi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[biz-ee-bod-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -bod·ies. a person who pries into or meddles in the affairs of others.

choice_is_yours said...

pray for good times and good news..

Father, forgive me for what I have done...

choice_is_yours said...

Mom4, thank you, help me think of ***humble, sincere, healing*** prayer requests...


this is*****important****


let not any accusations pass through our minds at this moment...

Anonymous said...

Healme,

Don't take it personal. We are all human and we share some of the same tendencies.

However, what is great about having the need to know, is God put that in us for a reason, so we have the need to know him.

I think that is the reason rom 1:20 is such a powerful argument that Paul makes. We look at the universe and have the need to know who created it, which will lead us to the creator.

choice_is_yours said...

let all evil imaginations pass from us....

let us see loving brothers and friends where just previously and for months and months we saw people intent on harming us...

choice_is_yours said...

pastor,


please forgive me and join in...


...lift up the name of Jesus with me brother...


I am sorry for being so disrespectful..

people are watching this... let's pray to Jesus...

choice_is_yours said...

join in prayer with me pastor, please...

enough of these rocks we have all been throwing at each other...

Jesus is our savior..

Praise him...

Anonymous said...

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a great friend of mine who is a member of the Church of Christ church. There church is quite large and the pastor decided to allow musical instruments in the church. 10% of the people revolted and are going to other churches. The people are accusing the pastor of not going after the lost sheep and saying hurtful things about him, some have even accused him of following Rick Warren.

My friend, who is not a staff person or elder, had an interesting observation. The sheep that left, are in no danger of losing their faith, they are still part of Christ's church. However, they are moving to another church, which there are 100’s to choose from, and will be a blessing over there.

I realized how many of us use the 1 lost sheep parable, and equate that to a particular church membership. The sheep are only scattered if they walk away from their faith in Christ, we are all part of Christ's church, doesn’t matter which church we attend. (you folks know what I am talking about, when I said it doesn’t matter which church).

Tim said...

faithnhope,

Dr. Rogers message was great because it was true. I have found that truth can be applied to all situations.

The interpretation of the Scripture is not nearly as difficult as some would have us believe.

If it is your opinion that the content of Dr. Rogers message has been emptied of content, then you are welcome to your opinion. As I am to mine. An agenda is not the issue. If you believe that the Scripture references that I have made are errant, then I would invite you to point them out.

As far as the soil to which the seed falls, I am not in control of the soil of your soul or anyone elses. The truth is the seed and the seed of truth does not change.

choice_is_yours said...

I don't have any rocks left to throw all I have is the cross where my savior bled and died...


I don't want this bitterness to continue for another year, or a month, or a week, or a day..


just open your heart and breathe, pastor....

let's share this victory over darkness together...

Let Jesus wash us clean as snow

Just choose this day whom will you serve: The God who loves you. There is no other choice.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

choice_is_yours said...

Pastor,

Do you understand that churches of christ do not endorse John 3:16? They believe that Faith alone in Jesus Christ will send a person to hell.

pastor said...
I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a great friend of mine who is a member of the Church of Christ church. There church is quite large and the pastor decided to allow musical instruments in the church. 10% of the people revolted and are going to other churches. The people are accusing the pastor of not going after the lost sheep and saying hurtful things about him, some have even accused him of following Rick Warren.

My friend, who is not a staff person or elder, had an interesting observation. The sheep that left, are in no danger of losing their faith, they are still part of Christ's church. However, they are moving to another church, which there are 100’s to choose from, and will be a blessing over there.

I realized how many of us use the 1 lost sheep parable, and equate that to a particular church membership. The sheep are only scattered if they walk away from their faith in Christ, we are all part of Christ's church, doesn’t matter which church we attend. (you folks know what I am talking about, when I said it doesn’t matter which church).

10:41 AM, December 06, 2006

choice_is_yours said...

(offline)

Anonymous said...

Tim,

If Bible interpretation is so easy, why are there so many books about it? Why do our seminaries offer classes in Greek, Hebrew, and hermeneutics?

Jeremiah wrote that the heart is deceitful above all else and beyond cure and understanding. I thought the Dr. Rogers' message was wonderful because it dealt with Christians cleaning out their own hearts to remove an environment in which Satan was comfortable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seemed to be applying the message to Pastor Gaines' heart. And yet you wrote:
As far as the soil to which the seed falls, I am not in control of the soil of your soul or anyone elses.

Physician heal thyself!!!

Anonymous said...

Tim, choice,

I stand amazed in your presence. Please -- enough of the fingerpointing and preaching.

westtnbarrister said...

faithnhope,

You said:

"You took a wonderful quote from Dr. Rogers, emptied it of all content, and turned it into a tool to use for you own agenda."

Are you surprised anyone in our church does that?

I quote Deacon David Bishop's letter to our pastor thusly and like so (Hat tip to MB):

"In the deacons’ meeting, you compared yourself to Nehemiah and by implication, Mark Sharpe and the others to Tobiah and Sanballat. My problem with your analogy is that Mark Sharpe, Richard Emerson, Shell Berry, Riad Saba, and the others who have voiced concerns are members of the body, not pagan outsiders who are opposed to the work being attempted by our church."


I must conclude the pastor endorses the practice you condemn.

david S said...

Pastor,

I asked earlier, but did not recieve a response: Where are you a pastor at? Or perhaps: Who ordained you? You should make at least those qualifications available to those who ask. Correct? We should not claim to be pastors if we are not willing to disclose what body laid hands on us.

I ask because you continue in strange theology. First with your prophecies, then with some pretty hostile stones thrown Karenward, then with comparisons of those who disagree with Joseph Smith.

Let's be clear, brother: Simply because we do not beieve a website is the most productive means of church discussion does not mean we have the right to compare people to Mormon's.

Please, if you would:
1. Where do you pastor?
or
2. Who ordianed you?

headoutofthesand said...

Everyone,

"pastor" is Pastor Nathan Morton of Indiana Fundamental Baptist Church.

Link to the Pastor

Karen said...

david said:

I ask because you continue in strange theology. First with your prophecies, then with some pretty hostile stones thrown Karenward, then with comparisons of those who disagree with Joseph Smith.

"Karenward" - does this make me a noun, verb, adverb or adjective? Sorry, thought y'all could use some levity (I almost wrote "brevity" - some could use that as well). I crack myself up today! :)

karen

Karen said...

headoutofthesand,

Did you catch this link too? Sound familiar?

http://pastormorton.wordpress.com/

ezekiel said...

Pastor said ...."I realized how many of us use the 1 lost sheep parable, and equate that to a particular church membership. The sheep are only scattered if they walk away from their faith in Christ, we are all part of Christ's church, doesn’t matter which church we attend. (you folks know what I am talking about, when I said it doesn’t matter which church). "

I have not been using the scattered sheep this way. When I refer to scattered sheep, I am refering to the sheep who have been scattered by their leaders, those who have hardened their hearts and become so bitter watching the brutality of so called christian men. People that have put too much faith and trust in men. Those are truly scattered and moving church membership won't help.

Leaders want to look at it as "my church", "my way" and all the time rule with such harshness and brutality that good people, God fearing people will leave Bellevue. Leave with the thought of "how can I sit in church and listen to men tell me how to live and relate to others then proceed to show me something entirely different. Tell me don't lie, treat your wife nice and don't worship money.....

It really is not as simple as you would like. Just go somewhere else. The problem is the calluses you put on one of His when you do it. They might not ever come off. Do you really think those 18,000 members you can't account for went elswhere? Or are they sitting at home saying "I don't need any part in the establishment that would treat me that way? What ever happened to "love your neighbor"?

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
headoutofthesand said...

karen,

Yes, that's where I got the link to his church site from. I don't know why I missed that earlier.

I wonder if his church pays him to blog during work hours?

:)

headoutofthesand said...

Pastor Morton said...

Bellevue, do you remember what your esteemed former pastor taught you about authority? “You must be under what you are supposed to be under before you can be over what you are supposed to be over.” Here is another quote, “God has instituted three things the home, the church, and the government, and he has put a human head on each of them.” I am an outsider who has read the reports, blogs, and web sites. Since I first heard of the trouble I have prayed everyday that God would put a hedge around Dr. Gaines and Bellevue.

Then, Pastor Morton said...

I realized how many of us use the 1 lost sheep parable, and equate that to a particular church membership. The sheep are only scattered if they walk away from their faith in Christ, we are all part of Christ's church, doesn’t matter which church we attend.

So, on one hand, Pastor, you have a "head of authority" of the church that we should be under, but on the other hand that same head of authority has no obligation to go after his sheep because of your claim that the church is really only a physical manifestation of a single body of believers with Christ as the true "head". Seems a little incongruous (or convenient if you're the pastor, I suppose), doesn't it? You can't have it both ways, though. Either you care about your own flock using the example of Christ to keep them or you don't care enough about those that challenge your authority so you effectively tell them to "like it or leave it".

Strange theology, indeed.

Anonymous said...

WTB,

I wrote:
"You took a wonderful quote from Dr. Rogers, emptied it of all content, and turned it into a tool to use for you own agenda."

To which you responded:
Are you surprised anyone in our church does that?

I'm not in the least surprised that we all misuse quotes for own benefit. Frankly, I'd be shocked if I ever did hear someone quote a scripture that weakened their stance instead of strengthening it.

If the Pastor's intent was comparing the other men to pagans as a label and an insult, then of course I agree with you that it was wrong.

Personally, I don't think that was what he meant. I don't think he searched the Bible for a perfect analogy and found that passage. I honestly believe he was speaking without thinking about the consequences, something he's gotten himself into trouble for before he came here (and since). Let's hope he's learned from the experience.

Anonymous said...

Tim,

Apologies, my last post was way off topic. My original point was that I see a lot of bitterness in your posts, one of the things Dr. Rogers talked about. That's my concern.

No, I don't control over the soil of another's heart, but I do have influence. We all do.

Will you please think about what I'm saying to you?

2006Huldah said...

To 25+yrs@bbc on your 20-point post at 8:50 AM on December 06,2006:

If the outline you have posted today and on other occasions were to be followed exactly, we could have truth and reconciliation. I would rubber stamp your ideas as you have laid them out here.

To All Others:

If you have not read every single point of this person's outline, please, read them. It takes a lot of time and forethought and the Holy Spirit of God to lead one to enumerate ideas in such a manner.

Thank you for your post, 25+yrs.

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Custos said...

Hi pastor,

Is HeadOutOfTheSand correct? Are you Mr Nathan Morton?

Best,
Josh

scmom said...

Pastor said:

Hey folks it is me,Pastor, or otherwise as you like to call me pastor of darkness.

I recieved this email from a friend of mine, who is also a pastor (whom I believe is much more thoughtful than I am).

REPLY: Sorry I don't know how to italicize the original post. Just wanted to remind everyone that he didn't take credit for the article...

Anonymous said...

I was wondering how long it would take someone to take the bait.

Do you actually believe I would expose God's flock that he has entrusted me, to unrelentless religous people.

(that is not intended for everyone on this blog, just the ones who get mad at that statement).

My flock who size is approx. 300 people (in one year)are 95% unchurched, and are now coming to Christ and joining an SBC church.

I posted clearly that I received an email from a fellow pastor. I posted the link because I knew his church was linked as well.

Many of you believe I am a pastor, the ones that believe I am pastor Morton, got their by accusing me of being a liar.

Folks, this is the core issue, jump to conclusions, without confirming your findings, then painting church leadership in the negative in all things. I made it very clear, I received the email from a fellow pastor, therefore I am not pastor Morton.

Now watch, how many people will post that I am a liar, as well as I am lying through this post, the scripture is very clear on this practice 1 Tim 5:19.

By the way for the detectives, please note the writing styles. Pastor Morton is a young man who has dedicated his life to serving the Lord and preaching His word, do not tear him down. Feel free to agree or disagree with his blog, but do not tear him down.

Your discourteous comments about him, is that encouraging this young man in the Lord? Give that man double honor (1 Tim 5:17), for you folks that are older than pastor Morton, pay very close attention to Titus 2:1-10, the verb is in the imperative, which is a direct command, not a direct suggestion.

I post here because, some of the people reading here, and posting here, are part of God's flock. (1 Peter 5:2).

You said BBC is a leading church, (which I believe), as the leader goes so do the followers. So, we all (believers) have a vested interest in the revival at BBC.

The outside world looking in, does not see you as BBC, but as Christians as a whole.

Custos said...

Hi SCMom,

Here's an example of how to itlicize things. Type the following, without the spaces inside the carats:

< i > Jesus is Lord! < /i >

If you eliminate the spaces between the carats and other characters, the phrase Jesus is Lord would be italicised like this Jesus is Lord! Use the letter "b" for bold and "u" for underline (without the quotes).

Hope that helps. Also, does the SC in your name mean your from South Carolina--my adopted home state?

Cheers,
Josh

headoutofthesand said...

Pastor,

My apologies. You are right that I did not see your reference to this being a friend of yours. You are indeed not Pastor Morton. I scrolled down too quickly and did not see that.

And my apologies to Pastor Morton.

Custos said...

Thank you for answering my question, pastor.

Anonymous said...

headoutofsand,

Thank you for your sincerity and honesty, way to go!

(no sarcasm)

Karen said...

pastor,

Because of your unkind comments to me, I would suggest you NEVER reveal yourself here. My husband, who is a young Christian, still wants to pop a knot on your head for the junk you've spouted about me. Not a threat; just some sound advice.

Now, let's all move on....

Karen

New BBC Open Forum said...

pastor wrote:

"I posted clearly that I received an email from a fellow pastor."

He's right about that. He did.

"Do you actually believe I would expose God's flock that he has entrusted me, to unrelentless religous people."

If I were you, I'd be embarrassed if my flock ever found out the way you've spoken to and about many of the people here and what you did to Karen. I really don't think you are a pastor. At least I hope not. I'm not even convinced you're a Christian. You certainly haven't exhibited a very Christ-like attitude. I'd hate to think God entrusted a flock to anyone with an attitude like yours.

NASS

P.S. Please, folks. Just ignore the troll. I've received two e-mails today telling me this is Pastor Morton, and I didn't think it was, but I had to be away for a while and hadn't had time to try to verify it. Let's confirm our facts before posting anything.

Anonymous said...

PASTOR, OH PASTOR!

You have been asked this question a couple of times and you have no answered it yet.

You said rhat you were led of the Holy Spirit to say the things you did to Karen and that the shoe just happen to fit.

Now, for the 3rd time, please tell us who led you to apologize to Karen.

MOM4 said...

Pastor,
I am now confused. Why would you link yourself to Pastor Morton to set him up? If you are not he, then you have done him a grave disservice.
I will remove my posts regarding him, but it only leads me to believe that you are not an honest man.

Anonymous said...

Did the pastor reconcile with Jim Whitmire?

Anonymous said...

Good post Nass (no sarcasm)

Anonymous said...

i posted this several days ago with no response.

karen posted: TO PASTOR:

FOR THE RECORD THIS IS KAREN'S HUSBAND. I DON'T HAVE A BLOG NAME ON THIS PARTICULAR BLOG NOR HAVE I INVOLVED MYSELF IN THIS SITUATION.

PASTOR, I REALLY DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE! I'M ONLY RESPONDING AT THIS TIME BECAUSE YOU HAVE PERSONALLY ATTACKED MY WIFE! KAREN STOOD UP TO YOU AND ADMITTED SOMETHING THAT SHE IS NOT PROUD OF AND BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU THAT IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION. YOU MAY NOT HAVE CAST THE FIRST STONE, BUT INDEED, SIR, YOU DID CAST A STONE. ARE YOU WITHOUT SIN? IT APPEARS THAT YOU ARE AMUSING YOURSELF BY PROVIDING SARCASTIC AND HURTFUL REMARKS. YOU ARE INDEED A COWARD AND A BULLY!

ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, I HAVE KNOWN KAREN FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND WE'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR 2 MONTHS. SHE BROUGHT ME BACK TO CHURCH. SHE AND HER FAMILY HAVE BEEN A GREAT INSPIRATION TO ME.

RANDY



REPLY: I totally understand why you are upset and defending your wife. I would do the same thing. What I DO NOT understand is why MOST on here just do not get they are guilty of this same HORRIBLE stuff every single day on this blog and other places.

It hurts when someone you love is attacked does it not?? Then WHY do MOST on here attack Brother Steve and a huge list of others every day. The double standard is UNREAL and make me SICK!! Many on here come to the defense of Karen and others ASAP (which I understand) BUT, then a few posts later attack Brother Steve or someone else with a horrible personal attack. Many on here make things PERSONAL every single day. They seem to enjoy it and that is scary.

MANY of YOU have put Brother Steve and his family and others through a great deal. You have hurt Brother Steve, His family, his wife, his children etc etc. Not to mention all the others that have been attacked and their families.

But somehow many on here try to justify their horrible attacks?? How??

It DOES NOT matter what has been done. What is true or what is not. Your hate filled personal attacks cannot be defended.

It makes me sick to my stomach to see many of you post in Jesus name and all this great sounding spiritual stuff. I hate to tell you, but most of the threads on here are in NO way what Jesus would post. Many on here need to open their eyes and READ their own posts. Most are filled with horrible attacks and hate and contain very little if any love.

This blog and many posts on it represent a great deal of what is wrong with the church today.

5% of this blog is serious issues that are posted or talked about in a loving way.

Many of you have gone to the other Committee meetings and will go tomorrow and have horrible attitudes. Many walk into Bellevue in 100% self/flesh and it is very easy to see. But you are in there trying to focus on someone else and their "issues".

try looking in the mirror

Tim said...

faithnhope,

I truly understand what you are communicating. Truly, I do. I appreciate your concern that bitterness not reside in my heart. I sincerely do.

My concerns are often direct and to the point. I was certainly not born to be a politician and I am well aware of that.

Thank you for your concern, I understand that you may feel that my posts are the result of bitterness. My posts however are motivated by a passion for Bellevue and a desire to see her turned away from sure destruction.

Anonymous said...

I would also like to know if Jim Whitmire was reconciled with!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Karen posted: pastor,

Because of your unkind comments to me, I would suggest you NEVER reveal yourself here. My husband, who is a young Christian, still wants to pop a knot on your head for the junk you've spouted about me. Not a threat; just some sound advice.

Now, let's all move on....

Karen



REPLY: I understand you are upset etc, but now you are threatening violence? you say it is not a threat, but it clearly sounded like one.

Anonymous said...

This are some of the lessons I have learned since our pastor came to Bellevue.

The pastor came to Bellevue and totally ignored our pastor, Adrian Rogers.

Lessons: Do not honor your elder pastor or elder brother. Call someone your best friend and mentor as a politician would use false advertisements to gain votes. Dishonor a man when honors you and hurt his feelings as much as you can before he dies.

The Leadership ran over Dr, Rogers when he became frail and did things they knew he would never approve of.

Lesson: It`s ok to disrespect those in authority over you. Take advantage of people who are weaker than you.

Our pastor loves running ads in the Memphis Flyer and have his and his wife`s photo plastered on billboards across Memphis.
The pastor is a hypocrite. He tried to run a similar paper in Gardendale out of business and even encouraged his Gardendale flock to boycott business` that had the papers availble in or near their business.


Lesson: It`s ok to be a hypocrite. Teach a different set of moral value to different flocks. It`s ok to make a public stand for something if the pastor leads the march, but don`t do it if he`s not at the front of the band.

Tim said...

Hisservant-1,

You have said that you were aware of most if not all of these issues apart from this blog.

How can you possibly defend these issues?

Do you believe that $25,000 to FUMC was the right thing to do?

Do you believe that a $1000 cheer leading camp is a moving expense?

Do you believe that it is ok to have personal expenses direct billed to the church?

Is there anything that could be done aside from posting on this blog that you would consider wrong?

Bereans said...

Blessmewiththetruth -

It is my understanding that there has been NO reconciliation between Dr. Gaines and the Whitmires. Maybe Josh Whitmire can answer this.

Did Dr. Gaines say that he had reconciled with the Whitmires?

Is there yet another "discrepancy" here?

david S said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
david S said...

This is directed Karenward:
I’m figuring you’re a verb. Defiantly. Ever known a cheerleader who wasn’t a verb? You’re all hyper and stuff, so a verb for sure.

Pastor said:
"Do you actually believe I would expose God's flock that he has entrusted me, to unrelentless religous people."

So you ARE a pastor? Please, what body of Believers ordained you. As a Believer, I have every right to ask by what authority you call yourself a pastor.


Hat&tobe,
Didn’t pastor (Steve) say he reconciled with Jim W. at Dr. Rogers funeral? I can’t verify that because Bellevue did not post that sermon! So I have to go on memory. But I think he said he apologized to Jim at Rogers funeral.

Blessme:
About pastor running ads in less than honorable papers: Isn’t that who you want to reach? I wouldn’t do it. . . but Jesus did eat and drink and go to parties with “sinners.” It does kind of give me chills, too, though because it results in the church actually supporting the paper. But I keep going back to thinking about Christ with those sinners. The Ad was a legitimate church ad, correct?


And to the rest of you:
Who will ask if I am posting on church time... No. I finished a Wed. Bible study outline (on prophecies of Christ) and am now waiting for my lunch appointment.

Anonymous said...

This are some things that I have learned since our pastor came to Bellevue.

The leadership at our church is compromised of a small group of friends who are rich. They scratch each other`s back and protect each other. They have no fear of being openly arrogant or disrespectful to people who meet them, at their request, to voice their concerns. They will roll their eyes and make funny faces when you ask a question. They will give you an answer that diliberatly keeps the truth from being known without having to admit they are lying. They are carefully going about hiding the truth in order to decieve the congregation so they can keep their most coveted sin, which is greedy power.

Anonymous said...

David said......

Blessme:
About pastor running ads in less than honorable papers: Isn’t that who you want to reach? I wouldn’t do it. . . but Jesus did eat and drink and go to parties with “sinners.” It does kind of give me chills, too, though because it results in the church actually supporting the paper. But I keep going back to thinking about Christ with those sinners. The Ad was a legitimate church ad, correct?

PLEASE NOTICE that Pastor Gaines thought that the same kind of paper should be exterminated while supporting a like paper with ads.

Don`t confuse the issues please.

Steve Gaines is a blantant hypocrite and his past and present action prove it.

Anonymous said...

Things I have learned since our new preacher came to Bellevue.

The search committee doesn` really have to SEARCH, they can persue a person as pastor because they favor him and continue to pursue him after he says no a zillion times, until he finally gives them the answer THEY want.

The Search committee can give the pastor hidden perks.

The Search committee can claim boldly that everything they did was just what GOD told them to do and thereby never have to give an real account of what happened.

westtnbarrister said...

David said, "Didn’t pastor (Steve) say he reconciled with Jim W. at Dr. Rogers funeral? I can’t verify that because Bellevue did not post that sermon! So I have to go on memory. But I think he said he apologized to Jim at Rogers funeral."


You may indeed listen to it at Bellevue.org. The video is not yet posted, but the audio is there. The message is available for free on itunes as well.

Each of us should carefully listen to the pastor's words and then seek the truth about his dealings with Dr. Whitmire.

Anonymous said...

Things I have learned since our new preacher came to Bellevue.

Steve Gaines can decide that the carpet isn`t soft enough for his feet and the leadership will jump to buy new carpet for him.

Steve Gaines had so many books he needed to have Pastor Roger`s study remodeled which costs thousands of dollars.

Steve Gaines made a promise not to make ANY CHANGES for at least one year but could not CONTROL HIMSELF. He is a promise breaker! He couldn`t wait to rip Bellevue apart at the seams to make it more like him.

Karen said...

hiservant-1,

My husband doesn't read the blog, but when he came home on Saturday afternoon to me sobbing on the couch after what "pastor" had said to me, he reacted. Wouldn't you defend your wife/husband/child to the end of the earth if someone hurt them? Randy, my wonderful husband, didn't care about BBC at that moment. All he knew was that his new wife was crying and he was gonna find out who made her cry (my hero! Karen swoons! - But I digress). He didn't have to say a word on this blog, but he did. He stood up for me and for what he belives is right and wasn't gonna take any (excuse me) crap from anyone on this blog - "pastor", deacon or nobody.

The issue about "pastor" being mean to me is over. Let it go, y'all! Keep your eyes on the prize, a united Bellevue Baptist Church! Ignore the trolls!

Karen

Karen said...

david said...
This is directed Karenward:
I’m figuring you’re a verb. Defiantly. Ever known a cheerleader who wasn’t a verb? You’re all hyper and stuff, so a verb for sure.

Funny! You made me spit again!


Hisservant-1,

C'mon do you really think my husband would be violent? He doesn't know who "pastor" really is - what do you want him to do, shadow box with the wall? Leave me alone on this issue - it didn't involve you and it's none of your business.

Karen

Anonymous said...

Things I have learned since Steve Gaines came to Bellevue.

Steve Gaines finally visited Pastor Adrian Rogers one week before he died. What a friend he was to Dr. Rogers!

At Dr. Rogers funeral, he watched the Whitmires like a vulture watches road kill.

He couldn`t wait to tear into the Whitmires.

He glared at them throughout the funeral.

Why?????

Because he was so angry over a letter that had been sent to Harry Smith from the Whitmires.

Steve Gaines has a very difficult time controlling his temper and when he lets it off leash it runs to do as much damage as it can.

scmom said...

Custos said:

Hi SCMom,

Also, does the SC in your name mean your from South Carolina--my adopted home state?

Cheers,
Josh


Thanks Josh. No, I'm actually further south and several states west. I do know your mom though ;).

Anonymous said...

Things I have learned since Steve Gaines came ot POWER!

Steve Gaines is a complusive liar. He has a string of lies that are following him around like Scrooges friend, Mr. Marley and he is still living in a lie.

Steve Gaines has a great love of money. He loves money so much that instead of blessing his congregation, he takes advantage of them by upping the price on tour tickets so he can pocket the profit And those who have approached him on this suhject have been itimidates and threatened. If Steve Gaines is not careful, he is going to fly off the handle on day, or as he puts it, shoot from the hip, and he is going to end up in jail. Mark it down folks, we are dealing with a pastor who acts like a GANGSTER.

Karen said...

blessmewiththetruth,

Preach on sister/brother! You are blessing me with the truth today.

karen

Anonymous said...

Did anyone notice that our new deacon chairman is one of the deacons (elders) that said the fence was low and was just stepped over.......My the more things change the more they stay the same.....Also did you realize we now have a new elder in the deacon leadership, incidently he was also the one that did not think we should see the credit card receipts, WOW our deacons (elders)can really pick them.

Anonymous said...

ARE THE WEIGHTS BALANCED?

Steve Gaines had leadership in West Jackson removed for sexual immorality.

Steve Gaines knows that a senior staff member has been accused of sexual immorality and takes NO ACTION WHAT SO EVER. He refuses to even investigate.

WHY?????????????

Anonymous said...

Donna Gaines.

You are living with a dangerous man who hides behind a pulpit and behind lies and wicked men in leadership. I hope you will stop helping him to do these things.

You told Mrs.Rogers a blatant lie about the Whitmire`s so I already know that you will lie just like your husband. Stop lying Donna Gaines.

You are busy filming your new project to be sold to the public and you are using all the assets of Bellevue to make your project wonderful Donna, are you giving you project profits to Bellevue? Are you paying Bellevue for their work? Are you paying for the new set they made just for you to do your project?

OR

Are you allowing the Bellevue family to pay for your project with plans for you to pocket the profits personally or run it through your own organization that you and Steve have together?

We want to know the truth Donna.

Feel free to write to all of us with your reply.

Anonymous said...

LINDA GLANCE

Linda we were told in the last CC meeting, that YOU are the reason that the PASTOR decided to UP the price on tour tickets for his own profit.

Now, we all know he did this prior to coming to Bellevue, just so you know before you answer.


LINDA GLANCE, Did you really do this?

Anonymous said...

STEVE TUCKER

Steve if I needed a saddle, I would drive all the way to Texas before I got one from you or your cow poking, side stepping friend, Harry Smith.

What an arrogant man you are to sit in a Communication Committee meetings and communicate with rolling eyes and sour grape face. What distain you have shown!

Steve you don`t belong in any ministry at any church.

Ride on out into the sunset and take Harry with you when you go.

Ed_T said...

hisservant-1...your posts are tiresome. This would all go away - and would have gone away - if Sharpe, Emmerson, Parker, Whitmire, Mullins, Smith and any others were allowed to tell their stories before the deacons and/or the church, fully and openly, without trying to hide behind ad-hoc committees and non-disclosure agreements (well, unsigned non-disclosure agreements in at least 2 cases). Why does a departing staff member have to literally force himself out the door between two church staffers on his last day of work as they try to get him to sign a non-disclosure agreement? Because all is OK and he simply left of his own accord? Yeah, right. (rolls eyes)

What does BBC fear so much as to ask departing staff to promise not tell what they experienced? If TRUTH is on the side of BBC, then why not ask those ex-staff members to come before the deacons and/or the congregation and say "All is well. These rumors of mistreatment are false." One ex-staff member has not spoken to the local paper on at least one occasion because he did not want to bring any disrepute on Bellevue. If he cares so much about BBC so as not not bring shame on it when he had the opportunity, then why won't the church bring him - and any others - before the deacons and/or congregation to state "all is well". It's doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why.

You remind me of those defenders of the institution of the church during the Reformation - more concerned with protecting the institution and the head of that institution than with Truth itself. Martin Luther aired the church's "dirty (theological) laundry" on the door of Castle Church in Wittenberg. His "accusations" then spread through the newly invented printing press - as opposed to the internet today - and resulted in the Reformation. The organization known as BBC is in serious need of some reformation.

I wonder if Luther was accused of "causing" people to go to Hell because he dared to challenge the church? But then, how many have been saved because he dared proclaim the Truth of salvation through faith alone?

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno, 16th century philosopher

P.S. I notice in an earlier post you took issue with some Love Offering figures, but you never posted the knowledge of those figures you seemingly possess. So as to not get into debating decimal places with you, let's just say that it was the lowest since the 1980s (actually since 1980 if I recall the conversation with my source correctly).

Anonymous said...

so many of you refer to some of us as "trolls"

question: what if we referred to some of you trouble makers?? we would get bashed for days and we would be accused of everything in the world. the fact is, many on here spew hate filled words toward people that have different views with them, but if the shoe was on the other foot, those same people would be going nuts.

Anonymous said...

blessmewiththetruth posted: STEVE TUCKER

Steve if I needed a saddle, I would drive all the way to Texas before I got one from you or your cow poking, side stepping friend, Harry Smith.

What an arrogant man you are to sit in a Communication Committee meetings and communicate with rolling eyes and sour grape face. What distain you have shown!

Steve you don`t belong in any ministry at any church.

Ride on out into the sunset and take Harry with you when you go.




REPLY: more hate filled personal attacks. many of you just continue to prove my points and show your true heart with every post.

Bin Wonderin said...

Steve Gaines knows that a senior staff member has been accused of sexual immorality and takes NO ACTION WHAT SO EVER. He refuses to even investigate.

Did I miss something?

Anonymous said...

CHIP FREEMAN

What a coward Chip is.

He runs to Mark S. and acts like he cares about the Church`s finances being mishandled.

When Mark tried to do something about it, Chip panics!

He knows that to expose the truth is going to expose that he leaked the information to Mark S.

He comes up with a very clever plan, so he thinks.

He decides that he can distance himself from Mark S. and draw closer to the pastor and his yes men leadership, who he knows all too well has been involved in mishandling the church`s money.

Then his wife, Misty, joins him in spreading the lie that she and her husband are not and never have been friends with the Sharpe family.

WOW, you are such a smart couple!

DId you really think that no one knew that you were friends with the Sharpes?

Did you think no one knew that you were the ones who went the Sharpe home to take care of their pool when they went on vacation?

Did you think no one knew that your children swam in their pool?

Did you think that no one knew that you gave the Sharpes a thank you gift when they got back from their vacation?

Somewhere in all this muck, Chip escapes Bellevue for another job but suddenly returns to work at Bellevue and then Pastor starts running around singing Chip`s praises!

Why is the Pastor so happy that Chip has returned?

Chip doesn`t have the courage to tell the truth.

Anonymous said...

I am a minister in a church in NC. I read in the local Baptist paper about this blog. After reading some of the post I realized that what was going on here was very much like what happened to a church I used to attend. We had a pastor who had been there for 15 years and then because of personal reasons had to leave. When the new pastor came a few people decided that they didn't like him and tried to run him off by accusing him of everything under the sun. Many of you on this blog are just like them. There is no pastor that is going to do everything just like all of us want him to. Our responsibily is to follow the man that God has placed over us as long as he is preaching the Word of God. I have listened to many of Pastor Gaines sermons and he sure preaches the Word! I was not going to put anything on this blog until I read the last few post by blessmewiththetruth. Whoever you are you are walking on dangerous ground with God. You have personally and hatefully attacked a man of God. Some of the men who tried to run my former pastor off had some things come in their lives that I truly believe were a direct result of what they did to our pastor. I am truly praying for all of you, your pastor, and for your church. Thank you for allowing me to post. I will not be posting anything else.

MOM4 said...

ed_t,

I have asked about the Love Offering many times and have never gotten an answer. Does ANYBODY know?

Anonymous said...

ed_t: I know some of the men you listed and several if not all of them would not do what you stated.

also, so then would it be ok if Brother Steve and others got up and told ALL of those same men's mistakes and "dirty laundry". what that be ok??

and please do not say that you know all of those men and that all of them have not made major mistakes themselves.

Anonymous said...

hisservant 1

Your opinion DIES in the light of TRUTH

If you don`t like the TRUTH then stay in the darkness you so obviouly love.

I have no respect for you at all.

ANd GET READY FOR MORE TRUTH!

Anonymous said...

praying4u said...

Please don`t come here and start giving your opinion on issues unless you know the TRUTH.

Pastor from N.C.

You are speculating that things you read here are untruthful and I can tell you rhat most of what you read here is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, so may I suggest you come back when you have facts and stop with your unfactual surmizings.

MOM4 said...

Did anyone ask why Steve Gaines had Dr Rogers locked out of the Pastor's offices without telling him he was planning on doing so?

Apparently Dr Rogers, being the PASTOR EMERITIUS, did not turn in his keys when he retired and inadvertently used them as he had done for the PAST 37 YEARS, thereby interupting Steve Gaines in his office. Instead of Steve Gaines addressing the situation with Dr Rogers,as any normal man would do, he immediately called and had the locks changed. What kind of man would do something like that? He showed absolutely NO respect for the man that the Lord used to build Bellevue these last 3+ decades. Why did he just not talk to Dr Rogers, who was at that time beginning to show the frailty from his illness? Can you imagine the hurt when Dr Rogers put his key in the door and it did not work!
Can you imagine Dr Rogers having to ASK permission to gain access??
He would have NEVER just walked in on Steve Gaines unless it was something he was doing out of routine habit! The man was a GENTLEMAN!
Can you imagine what kind of man we now have in the pulpit of BBC?

bless me,
It is about time someone got some of this stuff out in the open! I thank you for your posts!

Anonymous said...

DEACONS WHO ARE RUDE AND ARROGANT

What does Bellevue Leadership do about deacons who are rude and arrogant?

Answer: Stand behind them.

We have clear eviddence that some deacons are nothing less than tools of satan and yet our church will do NOTHING about it.

BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH DOES NOT CURRENRLY FOLLOW SCRIPTURAL COMMANDS for deacons, bishops, Matthew 18, sexual immorality, ect

Anonymous said...

Wow Blessedmewithtruth,
Those are some pretty volatile accusations and pretty harsh blanket statements about our church. I hope you are not correct.
Healme

Tim said...

hisservant-1,

There is a vast difference in the holier than thou attitudes that were exhibited by many of those on the CC committee and the humble attitude of those that have resigned from Bellevue as staff and membership.

Anonymous said...

MOM4 said...
Can you imagine what kind of man we now have in the pulpit of BBC?

I no longer have to use my imagination to know what kind of man we have in the pulpit at Bellevue.

He could not stand to walk the light that surrounded Pastor Adrian Rogers because the light hurts his flesh. The TRUTH is this. Steve Gaines is surrounded by darkness. He had been romancing the darkness for quite awhile and unfortunately he found some leadership at Bellevue who chose to him in his darkness and now they are trying to cover Bellevue with DARKNESS and the children of light will NEVER STAY SILENT AS LONG AS THE DARKNESS DELIGHTS ITSELF AT BELLEVUE!

Who took the orders to change the locks from Steve Gaines and ran with them?

Find that out and you will know the depth of darkness we are battling.

MAY GOD ARISE AND CHASE THE DARKNESS AWAY!

Anonymous said...

Ed t posted,

What does BBC fear ... ??

And then "blessmewithmoreaccusations" says:

Steve Gaines knows that a senior staff member has been accused of sexual immorality and takes NO ACTION WHAT SO EVER. He refuses to even investigate.

If Steve Gaines is not careful, he is going to fly off the handle on day, or as he puts it, shoot from the hip, and he is going to end up in jail. Mark it down folks, we are dealing with a pastor who acts like a GANGSTER.

AND ...

The pastor is a hypocrite.

AND ...

Steve Gaines is a blantant hypocrite and his past and present action prove it.

AND ...

What an arrogant man you are to sit in a Communication Committee meetings and communicate with rolling eyes and sour grape face. What distain you have shown!

Steve you don`t belong in any ministry at any church.

Ride on out into the sunset and take Harry with you when you go.

AND ...

You told Mrs.Rogers a blatant lie about the Whitmire`s so I already know that you will lie just like your husband. Stop lying Donna Gaines.

THEN our resident cheerleader chimes in:

blessmewiththetruth,

Preach on sister/brother! You are blessing me with the truth today.

karen

AND THEN we're "blessed" with this response to an open rebuke to such un-Christ-like hate-speech:

TO

hisservant 1

Your opinion DIES in the light of TRUTH

If you don`t like the TRUTH then stay in the darkness you so obviouly love.

I have no respect for you at all.

ANd GET READY FOR MORE TRUTH!

To another round of cheering from the fan club:

bless me,
It is about time someone got some of this stuff out in the open! I thank you for your posts!

I am praying for everyone who posts here, but it is becoming increasingly more difficult to maintain the right spirit in doing so. I really tremble for you all, because God's mighty hand of justice will probably not be very gentle when He decides to deal with all of this.

God help us all.

Anonymous said...

healme said...
Wow Blessedmewithtruth,
Those are some pretty volatile accusations and pretty harsh blanket statements about our church. I hope you are not correct.
Healme

HEALME,

I am correct and this is only the tip of the iceberg.

david S said...

Karen: “Funny! You made me spit again!”
Yep, definitely a verb. Or a Camel, which would be a noun. But I’m going with verb.

Tim said...

ed_t,

Our deacon body does not have to gain permission from the pastor to meet with anyone. I quite frankly believe that they should have a meeting without him present and call some of the prior staff as well as some of the membership. They might be shocked at what they would learn.

Some of them anyway. Some of them might be jumping on a cabbage truck heading out of town.

Anonymous said...

maybejustmaybe said...
Ed t posted,

What does BBC fear ... ??

We fear for the souls of people like you who have their head so covered up by the sand that they might follow the darkness instead of the light and end up in a place that takes them to hell.

You apparently have not reserached these issues or you too would have the truth.

If you are offended by the TRUTH, please join hisservant 1 and all the other servants who love darkness rather than light.

What I have stated are facts not opinions.

You have a lot of opinions without facts.

I choose the TRUTH over your Opinions.

david S said...

Bless me: "He could not stand to walk the light that surrounded Pastor Adrian Rogers because the light hurts his flesh. The TRUTH is this. Steve Gaines is surrounded by darkness."

Where in the world are you getting this stuff? This present darkness? Instead of giving truth everything seems to be running through the Spin Zone.

Anonymous said...

BlessMewithTheTruth: you are 100% full of self and flesh and to be honest you seem out of control. your spewing of hate over the last few hours is amazing.

let's say everything you have posted is right.

then, YOU are STILL big time in the WRONG. your personal attacks, slander, and out right hate is amazing. The Bible calls what you are doing Sin. plain and simple.

YOU are the problem, not the others that might still have issues, but are going about things the right way.

Anonymous said...

You are an evil person. And THAT, blessme, is the truth. How dare you spread this poison under the guise of a spiritual seeking of the truth! How dare you besmirch the names and reputations of fellow church members and those in authority over you!

Contrary to what you may think, I DO have facts, and a lot of them. And the fact that speaks loudest is that you are a tool of Satan himself. And are too drunk with hatred and vitriol to even realize that he has you by the nose and is leading you to destroy his church.

But I do agree with you on one point -- I DO definitely have OPINIONS, as well. And my opinion is that you are an unhappy and vile individual who will stop at nothing to see another person destroyed, all while you hide behind the anonymity of a blog to carry out Satan's schemes. If you have such "knowledge" and "truth," pray tell why do you not put your name on your claims to give them at least some measure of veracity??

Yeah, you are so bold, aren't you?

Anonymous said...

david said...


Where in the world are you getting this stuff? This present darkness? Instead of giving truth everything seems to be running through the Spin Zone.

David, if you can not identify DARKNESS, I pity you.

Do you need a BIBLE to read?

david S said...

Blessme: "If you are offended by the TRUTH, please join hisservant 1 and all the other servants who love darkness rather than light."

So ANYONE who disagrees with you dispises truth and walks in darkness? Your passion is refreshing; that it has to be aimed at the Church and your brothers and sisters in Christ is not so refreshing. Re-Aim! Try shooting at the real enemy. Your church is under friendly fire.

david S said...

Blessme,

I can identify darkness. Thanks for the offer of a Bible! Are you going to send me one?

Tim said...

hisservant-1,

I fail to see any reason that you would be qualified to tell any one the difference between what is right and what is wrong.

david S said...

Blessme:"We have clear eviddence that some deacons are nothing less than tools of satan and yet our church will do NOTHING about it."

Tools of Satan. Seriously, what ground do you have to make these accusations. Again, instead of presenting serious evidence of concerns, you're just tossing names out there and shouting. Fun? becuase your getting the Brides dress muddy without cause.

Anonymous said...

Isaiah 9:6-7

6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

This current blog string is now over 1100 blogs. Over the past few days I have followed it and watched it transform into darker and more malicious attacks from both sides. Be reminded from the passage above from Isaiah the reason we are all here. We live for Him … Jesus. He will right the wrongs on His schedule, not any of ours. As hard as we try, He is the only one able to judge us sinners. Attacking fellow Christians in such a public forum puts a smile on Satan’s face.

BR said...

maybejustmaybesaid...
"Contrary to what you may think, I DO have facts, and a lot of them."

And the facts are: ?????

Can you counter bless me's charges with truth? Please do so!

Anonymous said...

maybejustmaybe said...
You are an evil person. And THAT, blessme, is the truth. How dare you spread this poison under the guise of a spiritual seeking of the truth! How dare you besmirch the names and reputations of fellow church members and those in authority over you!

Contrary to what you may think, I DO have facts, and a lot of them. And the fact that speaks loudest is that you are a tool of Satan himself. And are too drunk with hatred and vitriol to even realize that he has you by the nose and is leading you to destroy his church.

But I do agree with you on one point -- I DO definitely have OPINIONS, as well. And my opinion is that you are an unhappy and vile individual who will stop at nothing to see another person destroyed, all while you hide behind the anonymity of a blog to carry out Satan's schemes. If you have such "knowledge" and "truth," pray tell why do you not put your name on your claims to give them at least some measure of veracity??

Yeah, you are so bold, aren't you?

MAYBE

Maybe is a name that could easily desribe the middle of the road fence sitter, but I must say you seem to have jumped off the fence here and allowed all of us to see where you really stand.

If you don`t like the TRUTH, there is nothing I can do for you but nothing you say will stop the TRUTH from coming forth, so please get use to the TRUTH being displayed.

Steve Gaines, Donna, and all their sin loving circle of yes men and women, are in grave spiritual danger when they hide their sins and continue in them instead of calling it what it is and coming out of it.

If you like their darkness there is plenty of room for you under their leadership.

I will pray for you.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, but no. I think you have enough to pray about.

Anonymous said...

Karen: this is a DIRECT question for you! you just posted that BlessMewithTheTruth and he/she hate filled evil posts were a blessing to you today.

can you please explain!!??

here is my BIG problem. You and several others really scare me sometimes and that is the honest truth. you post all this fun loving stuff and all these feel good jokes etc. you also seem at times to be very honest and gentle people. then, something changes. then you and others support hate filled evil and personal attacks posted by BlessMewithTheTruth and several others on here.

you SUPPORT them and their hate filled posts.

why?? because you will do anything and everything to "win"?? why??

and who are you really? the gentle, nice Christian, or the other I discribed??

Anonymous said...

BlessMewithTheTruth: you might want to see what the Bible has to say about slander, libel, and all themany other things you include in your posts.

The Bible does not say that IF someone is dojng wrong then, slander, libel, etc are ok!! They are wrong and a SIN no matter what.

Anonymous said...

maybe: thank you for your stand and for your attitude and heart

david S said...

hisservant,

I think the answer is that some people are ginuinely concerned about their church. Others prefer to simply call names.

Blessme either has facts no one else knows about (the key incident) or is making it up. Blessme goes further than simply giving facts, to then declaring that all who follow their pastor are in "darkness." In fact, a few woerse things I won't repeat.

The key incident is offensive... IF it happened! Blessme has stories, not not sources.

Anonymous said...

TRUTH has now been called a lie by those who hate the ttuth. This is exactly what Steve Gaines is teaching the church.

Those who come here without facts to back up their defensive posts love to call us liars in a round about way but it will never stand the test of time!

david S said...

“Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.” 1 Peter 2:1

“Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you — who are you to judge your neighbor?” James 4:11-12

Anonymous said...

...still smiling. Who gets the church? The winner or loser of this battle?

Anonymous said...

The truth is not in you. Wake up.

Anonymous said...

DAVID,

Don`t speak for me.

I have facts, pure and simple and so do others right here on this blog.

Anyone who wants the facts can have them.

I will not be sidetracked by those who don`t want the TRUTH so I will continue to bring the TRUTH while you do whatever you wish.

Those who don`t want the facts, don`t even look for them.

Chose your own path, but don`t chose mine.

I have facts and so do others.

david S said...

blessme,
what is the source for your story about the key? Where are you getting this information?

Anonymous said...

I have been told by several people I know over the last week that they DO NOT want those they called "trouble makers" to come and join their church. they said they want NO part of what they have read on this blog and heard other places.

I told them that is a tough thing, but that I could not blame them.

david S said...

Blessme: "I have facts and so do others."

Okay, brother. But if you're going to lay out facts HERE, then give us where you got your information. If I told you the earth was flat, would you believe me? No. You would want to know my source. My source is a 12th century science book.

facts without source aren't facts that can be weighed.

Anonymous said...

BlessMewithTheTruth: why are you ignoring my posts?

Anonymous said...

david said...
“Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.” 1 Peter 2:1

Thank you for that scripture. This is exactly our goal by in order to rid ourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, ency and slander, the pastor and all his dark servants must step down.

Anonymous said...

Count your blessings, HS-1.

Anonymous said...

(maybe thinks "blessme" has been playing D&D a little too much ...)

david S said...

Blessme,

You missed James:
“Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you — who are you to judge your neighbor?” James 4:11-12

Anonymous said...

BE BACK SOON WITH MORE TRUTH!

Anonymous said...

No, David. I didn't miss anything.

Anonymous said...

David, before I take a break.

GO tell that to Steve Gaines and company.

Anonymous said...

Just a question. Is the acceptance of such spew governed by whether you agree with the one doing the spewing? Or is it just because I'm daring to call him on it that I'm having Scripture quoted in my face? Just curious.

david S said...

Blessme,
There is a story in the Bible about a man with a log in his eye and a man with a speck. If you ALWAYS think every scripture applies to the other guy, your vision might be blocked by the log.

Tim said...

Matthew 7:1 AND 2
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

There are many that often like to quote the first verse only and not the second. The second verse brings into context the judgment that we are to use, which is the Word of God. The second verse also addresses the fact that we are to measure everything according to the Word of God. The Word of God is never slack in addressing sin as sin.

Tim said...

hisservant-1,

It is not possible for slander or libel to exist in the truth.

New BBC Open Forum said...

blessmewiththetruth,

Please e-mail me tonight.

NBBCOF

david S said...

Tim: "It is not possible for slander or libel to exist in the truth."

Of course it is. But Blessme is just tossing accusations and names out without any supporting data. Where is he getting this stuff? Do you know?

Anonymous said...

Tim, there is a presumption on your part that "blessme" is dealing with the truth. Yet he won't associate his name with his slanderous statements. Why should I believe him over and above a Scriptural directive to "touch not God's anointed" or to "submit to those in authority over me?" If he speaks truth, he needs to put up or shut up. Otherwise, his words have no credibility, at least not in light of God's Word.

david S said...

Scripture says if you have an accusation against an elder it needs to be supported by 2 or 3 witnesses. this is to provide solid evidence, so you know you are acting on the truth. It's not wrong to simply ask blessme: Where are you getting this information?

2 or 3 witnesses does not mean 2 or 3 people with their own accusations. each accusation needs to be supported by 2 or 3 witnesses. Or, just some evidence that what he is saying is factual would help.

Tim said...

David,

My post was directed toward Hisservant-1's constant claim that this blog is full of slander and libel.

It was not in regard to the post of blessmewiththetruth.

I do not know the source of blessmewiththetruth's information.

I believe that it is possible that he has verified information concerning the misconduct of a staff member that is far beyond what many know.

That will be something that I can only allow him to answer about.

Anonymous said...

David -- apologies for being curt with you. You were addressing "blessme" and not me when I wrote the following:


maybejustmaybe said...
No, David. I didn't miss anything.

5:02 PM, December 06, 2006

... and in the subsequent post, as well, I was still quite angry, thinking you were directing your comments to me ...

I apologize. Please forgive my brashness and lack of gentleness and self-control.

Anonymous said...

And to all others on this blog, please forgive me for allowing my temper to escape its bounds in the last half-hour. I am appropriately reproved by Scripture and I will do my best to refrain from being judgmental. One sin does not excuse another. I hope we have all at least learned that much.

Prayerfully,
maybe

david S said...

maybe,

Smile! I knew what had happened. Or, thought I was in the Twilight Zone. Which is possible, since I am flipping between writing something and looking at your comments.

Tim said...

david said...
Scripture says if you have an accusation against an elder it needs to be supported by 2 or 3 witnesses. this is to provide solid evidence, so you know you are acting on the truth. It's not wrong to simply ask blessme: Where are you getting this information?

2 or 3 witnesses does not mean 2 or 3 people with their own accusations. each accusation needs to be supported by 2 or 3 witnesses. Or, just some evidence that what he is saying is factual would help.



Reply: I am in agreement with you on this. I personally believe that our deacons should have a meeting and call those involved so that the truth can be known. I believe that if they asked those involved that most of them would offer their testimony to these issues and this could be put to rest one way or another. The fact that this adminisration and leadership of the deacons has been unwilling for this to come about has certainly not shown well for them.

Anonymous said...

Tim posted: hisservant-1,

It is not possible for slander or libel to exist in the truth.

REPLY: you might need to research further on that and see what God's word says.

so you are saying that as long as you are stating the Truth, it is ok to slander someone and their family and their reputation??

Anonymous said...

try this:

http://www.bible-topics.com/Slander.html

Anonymous said...

another:

http://www.allaboutgod.com/truth-topics/slander.htm

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Tim said...

hisservant-1,


American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
slan·der n.
Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
A false and malicious statement or report about someone.



Truth is not false. Truth is not malicious. The fact that someone can be damaged by the truth does not make it slander.

Anonymous said...

I prefer to go by God's word.

david S said...

Tim,

Truth can be twisted to paint an evil picture. All I asked was that Blessme provide more than his own word for the accusations. If he is going to say it in public, he should produce what he has in the same forum. Otherwise, don't make the accusation in a public place.

Tim said...

hisservant-1,

I looked at the links that you gave and the verses that are referenced are all in relation to the lack of truth in communication.

Where is a Biblical reference that shows that the truth was slanderous?

Tim said...

david,

As I said my post was not in relation to others that you are addressing. I can not answer for another. As I stated, I do not know the source of his information.

Will McKay said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
cjesusnme said...

I think we should all take a break from the hostileness going on here and look at what Dr. Rogers taught us about honesty and truth. This was taken from LWF and I pray that they don't mind me providing a little insight in the teachings of Dr. Rogers (I think one thing we agree on is that he was a man of integrity and NO ONE should question his teaching!)

Please read and enjoy!


"Should we just look the other way at lying?"


A major magazine ran a cover story that discussed the rampant dishonesty in our culture. I was glad it brought up the subject, but it just confused me by seemingly excusing lying. Since everybody does it, should we just look the other way?

America is at a stage where honesty is being trampled in the dust. Is it simply a decline in honesty as your magazine suggests? It is much more fundamental than that. We have lost the concept of absolute, God-given truth.

Isaiah 59:14 says, "Judgment is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off; for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter." Think back over the last 10 years. Can anybody dispute that judgment, righteousness, and equity have been sidelined? Lying is not simply a byproduct of modern culture with which we must live. Ignorance and disrespect of truth are the shears carving away the fabric of our society.

If you look the other way you become part of the problem and not the solution. Because so many have looked away, justice is on the junk pile, righteousness is rare, and equity is evaded. God can use a single voice, however, to reverse a torrent of unrighteousness.

Stand for justice, stand for righteousness, stand for equity, and stand for truth. As you do, be confident that God will lift you up (James 4:10).

whynotask said...

To: hisservant1
I believe you to be Steve Tucker. If you are? you almost knocked over 3 people at the last cc meeting trying to get to the microphone to shut Harry Smith up before he told everyone why Mark Sharpe's name was not on the return to active deacon roles. As far as the Truth about the dream ! I thought I was going to get my wadders on with the amount of waste that was put out by the cc members. It was extremely obvious that they would not bring forth the truth on the Dream. We know without any shadow of any doubt that this is a complete coverup of the truth. Mark D. is and always will not be around when this comes up. Mark D. if you have any shread of truth in your body? Stand before your accusers and tell the whole truth and don't lie now! I am glad I am not in your position. Hiding!!!!!!

david S said...

Tim,
I am so sorry! I am addressing you and Blessme in the same post... but you would never know it beause it was only headed to you!

Wounded
We should speak the truth in love. how loving do you think Blessme has been?

allofgrace said...

My my my....this is one busy little blog today. I've been sitting back and watching the proceedings for about an hour.

mjm: a little earlier I was about to point out how slanderously and venomously you pointed out someone else's slander and venom, but I thought better of it..I'm glad I did, seeing that you apologized. I was about to be very disappointed in you..thanks for restoring my confidence.

hisservant1: I've been observing you and your old buddy ace for a few weeks now. Nothing personal...but learn how to actually make an argument instead of just arguing. I hear you say over and over.."that's not true"...but you never offer the truth...you've claimed to have it..to have known it from the beginning..but you still don't offer it..what's up with that? WTB asked you earlier to give us God's list..you haven't answered, that I can see. If you truly have info then spill it...otherwise you're just sounding like 2 adolescents saying..did so..did not..did so...ad nauseum.

david: the "spin zone"..well there's certainly been plenty of that..you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see that. So you're a pastor too? What do you guys find so fascinating about this place? There's been a couple of pastors come through here before, telling everybody how much they need to repent and how slanderous all this is..then I visited their blogs..whew..talk about slander..only difference is..they slander their fellow pastors, local associations, etc...in short, anyone who isn't like them...I guess they wanted to "counsel" everyone.

"pastor": I don't know who you are..but you're just strange. Coming on here and waxing all ethereal and spooky sounding isn't really that impressive. You managed to scare one lady and slam another one. If you are a pastor I pity those sheep. You sound more like a really bad "Wizard of Oz" imitation. All that aside..I'm concerned for your soul. If you're a Christian, your theology is out there brother. If not, I will pray that God opens your eyes and ears.

mjm: one more thing...you mentioned authority..real authority isn't a position..it comes from being steeped in the scriptures and showing that forth..so much so that personality is hidden in the background...I've known few men since I've been a Christian who possess that kind of authority. My mentor was one...whenever I was in his presence..whether he knew about it or not...if there was something not right in my life...I felt immediately convicted..THAT'S real authority. As for Steve Tucker...I honestly don't know him..but I'll share this with you...I was at the CC meeting last Sunday..at 9:15 a guy I had observed several times during the meeting, stepped up to the mic and proclaimed,"I have to go teach the Bible." First impressions impress the most...I have to tell you..at the time I didn't know Steve Tucker from Adam..I only found out later that the man at the mic was him. My point is...all through the meeting his attitude was evident..his utter disdain for everyone there was all over his face. And the way he made his pronouncement...like he expected us all to stand up and walk out at the sound of his voice. Btw, I didn't sense the kind of authority I spoke of earlier..I don't know him...but he definitely left an impression...and I don't think I want to know him.

david S said...

david: the "spin zone"..well there's certainly been plenty of that..you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see that. So you're a pastor too? What do you guys find so fascinating about this place? There's been a couple of pastors come through here before, telling everybody how much they need to repent and how slanderous all this is..then I visited their blogs..whew..talk about slander..only difference is..they slander their fellow pastors, local associations, etc...in short, anyone who isn't like them...I guess they wanted to "counsel" everyone."

So what exactly do you have against me? I'm slandering who? My association? Fellow pastors? You didn't visit MY blog, becuase I don't have one!

"Spin Zone" is taking parts of truth and using them to spin it your own direction.

But this "Truth" a certin poster keeps claiming can't be backed up by... well, anyone so far.

choice_is_yours said...

Moderator, I just got your email and just replied.

Thanks
Choice

P.S. to the board: I'm not here to lurk or post.

allofgrace said...

david,
If you'll read carefully the blogs i visited were by the "couple of pastor's who've come through here before"..are you "spinning" what I said?...I'm saying that tongue in cheek. I know what "spin" is. You seem like a nice enough guy...I was just curious to know from a pastor's perspective what keeps you coming back here...are you from Bellevue?

Tim said...

david,

Thanks. I jumped into the middle of the post addressing Hisservant-1 and was unaware of the other post that had proceeded it.

allofgrace said...

david,
btw..I don't have anything against you...I don't even know you.

Bereans said...

Blessme...
You have stated that a senior staff member has been accused of sexual immorality.

This is a very serious allegation. Are you sure about this?

Is Steve Gaines aware of this?

What is he doing to deal with it?

Is this person continuing to serve on our church staff?

Since you seem to be aware of the situation, what do you think should be done in light of scripture and for the good of the church?

New BBC Open Forum said...

david, et al.,

While I don't really care for the way blessme expressed him or herself today, I can tell you most, if not all, of what s/he's speaking is the truth. The only reason I can't say all that s/he said is the truth is that I haven't determined for myself that it all is, but I can say I have been researching everything s/he said for some time now and have determined that most of it is, unfortunately, true. Nothing s/he said was "new" to me.

Perhaps everyone's been beating around the bush too long, and blessme just couldn't hold it in any longer.

NASS

P.S. I have no idea who blessme is.

New BBC Open Forum said...

bereans,

It's being addressed. Let's leave it at that, okay?

NBBCOF

Tim said...

nbbcof,

I agree. I believe that at some point the magnitude of offenses can become overwhelming.

david S said...

NASS,

Thanks. That is helpful clarification. Also glad to know you don't approve of some of the conduct. I appreciate that so much. Got to go to church, see ya.

allofgrace said...

choice,
Yesterday I think it was, you asked me to offer something about worship. I've got a final this week at school, but I'll send something to you by email in a day or two if you like. Blessings.

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