The Commercial Appeal's December 30th letters to the editor are here. You may recognize the writer of the letter entitled "The case calls for a dismissal."
Read the latest (December 27th) from the former "formerly brainwashed Bellevuer" aka "never put your faith in men!" and just think about it. A link to his blog, "Bellevue Baptist Church - My True Story" is in the sidebar on this page.
As he states, he is only expressing his own thoughts and observations which aren't necessarily the thoughts of those on this forum. This was merely a topic meant to generate discussion.
WCRV Radio (AM 640) interviewed Dr. Michael Spradlin, President of MABTS, on Thursday. The show is scheduled to be rebroadcast Saturday at 7:00 a.m., 6:30 p.m., and Sunday at 2:00 p.m. The 30-minute interview can also be accessed here.
Bellevue's website now has the 12-17 and 12-19 statements by Steve Gaines and the video from the 12-20 Wednesday night service here and a description of the Christmas Eve morning and evening services here.
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484 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 484 of 484You are right, saying "moral failure" in no way was meant to down play this VERY serious issue. What did you want them to say to everyone, children included??
Also, again, this is a LEGAL issue and many on here are running their mouth about things they have no clue about. Dr. Gaines and others cannot just say whatever they would like at this time. What about that is so hard to understand?
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Thanks,
NBBCOF
4545,
thanks for your response.
I would like to ask you another question. We can agree that SG made a mistake. That is a given.
What do YOU think he should have done after PW confessed his sin to him?
facts only please
LOL! You are hilarious! Thanks for giving us a much needed laugh.
Ace,
Are you suggesting that those of us who have shared our abuse testimonies are cry babies?
Shame on you!
I do not know that, we really have NO clue what PW's told Dr. Gaines etc.
What you are dealing with at your church is spiritual abuse - authoritarianism of the pastor running rampant. Please go to the website of http://www.caic.org.au/zabusive.htm. Surf through that website and you will find very interesting and enlightening information that will give insight to the fundamentalist/authoritarian mindset that leads to such behavior. I would also suggest finding and reading the book "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" written by Jeff Von Vanderen. It is on Barnes and Noble and Amazon. God Bless your church and I will be praying for you.
4545 wrote:
"Would you care to give facts on this 'rape'??"
The only "facts" I can give you can be found here. Put "2000" and "Appling" in the address boxes (no city necessary) and choose "Rape" from the drop-down menu and see what turns up.
Ema,
You are here to defend Hollywood, now!
Where exactly did you come from? Who said I am defending Hollywood...oh wait, you're putting words in my mouth. Welcome to the club.
I was speaking of "Hollywood" in the sense of the entertainment industry.
Yes, I understood that.
I am sure there are a few Christians in the population of the city of Hollywood, CA.,
Yes, but there's probably more than a "few"...
but the majority of the Hollywood stars are as pagan as they can be and promote Kabala, Scientology, Buddhism, etc., etc.
Keyword: majority Your originally said 'everyone' - I believe there is a HUGE difference in that.
Please explain to me why a gathering of our Career and Singles Group would be called "Black and White Hollywood Night"?
Do you think this is Steve Gaines' name that he came up with? Doubtful. It sounds like something the coffee shop made up...like perhaps it's coffee and a movie...Gone with the Wind or something like that...I dunno.
NBBCOF,
Well, there we go with the name calling. But I guess it's okay if it's Ace doing it.
No, it's okay if what I'm calling someone is actually what they're doing. I called people gossipers (there are some here) and crybabies (there are some here). Got it? Good.
Actually, I don't think it's okay for anyone to be doing it!
And I haven't seen anyone name-calling recently...
BTW, Ace. When are you going to bring some facts to the discussion? Just wonderin'.
Whenever I feel like it, thank you.
4545,
ok, thanks.
Are you of the mindset that we don't know for sure that PW confessed to SG that he had molested his own son?
4545 said...
They are not celebrating Hollywood. You do not know what you are talking about and you are making something out of NOTHING!
4545, If you know why the "Black and White Hollywood Night" is being called that, please explain.
We want to understand.
FedUp,
Are you suggesting that those of us who have shared our abuse testimonies are cry babies?
No, not at all.
Shame on you!
Nope, not shame on me. Shame on you for even bringing up that topic. You're pathetic... thanks again for trying to put words in my mouth.
2Thessalonians: 9
"[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A LIE."
NBCCOF,
The only "facts" I can give you can be found here. Put "2000" and "Appling" in the address boxes (no city necessary) and choose "Rape" from the drop-down menu and see what turns up.
Those aren't facts. Regarding the rape. It was between two teenagers and it the sex was consensual by BOTH people. This happened on the night of S.C.T. Later a police report was filed by the girl's family for some reason or another....the guy involved in this situation has been banned from Bellevue's campus and is no longer allowed to come back...
Ace- They seem to love to put words in people's mouth.
Ema,
4545, If you know why the "Black and White Hollywood Night" is being called that, please explain.
I'm not positive, but I'm thinking it has to do something with a OLD movie. Hence the name, "black and white" hollywood night... I don't know though, that's the first thing that comes to my mind when I read that.
Guys,
Ace's comments are BEYOND THE PALE with regard to the "crybaby" statement. I find it to be extremely offensive..not just for myself, but for the other women who have bared their souls and shared their hearts on this blog.
His statements are insensitive and downright CRUEL.
I, for one, will not be responding to him any further.
4545,
They seem to love to put words in people's mouth.
Yes, I've noticed that. They've been doing that to me from day 1 that I've been here. When they don't know how to respond to something you say, then they say you said something you never really sad....it's really quite sad.
ace and 4545
Isn't it funny the only two people having trouble with others putting words in their mouths are you two. Hummmmmmmmmmmmm Why don't you just try saying what you mean then in not such an acid manner? Is that possible? Perhaps then you will be a little clearer in what you are trying to say.
And stop being bullies. Try to communicate on a higher level.
FedUp,
Ace's comments are BEYOND THE PALE with regard to the "crybaby" statement. I find it to be extremely offensive..not just for myself, but for the other women who have bared their souls and shared their hearts on this blog.
Again, I told you it's not in regards to stories told here. It's because some people here will never be happen and have to complain about every single thing at Bellevue.
I'm going to do something that most people here are afraid to do because of their pride (or another reason). And that is apologize. I'm sorry that I offended you and I'm sorry if I offended anyone else with my comments. Will you forgive me?
To everyone following the "moral failure" part of this thread. I think we may find out that that specific terminology was purposefully used so that the resulting investigation could allow for some wiggle room for the Pastor. At this point it would not surprise me in the least if what comes out of the "investigation" is not a finding of sexual abuse or anything that SG was mandated by law to report. NBBCOF can you please find the original post where this information was leaked and repost it? I'd like to review it.
Ema said...
"Koragg, keep resisting, and God bless you for keeping your standards high and having the discernment to know this isn't right!!"
Honor is a big thing with me. Without honor, you cannot be trusted. In my opinion, Steve Gaines has no honor so I will not waste my time with Bellevue until honor is restored in the pulpit.
facts only please,
You have posted some very interesting comments today. I had not heard about the Sept. sermon that included thoughts on beastiality. I agree with you. It seems SG can talk about anything he wants to talk about. I'm not sure what others wanted to hear him say about the PW situation but I wanted to hear him say it was a SIN not a "moral failure." Someone who worked with the SCT this year told me the word "sin" was only mentioned one night of the performances and that was Wednesday night which was the very last night. I don't know if any of you who went or were involved noticed this. I would like to hear other comments if anyone remembers.
".the guy involved in this situation has been banned from Bellevue's campus and is no longer allowed to come back..."
This has got to be a joke! Yet Paul Williams was just put on administrative leave? That leads one to think at one point he might be coming back...perhaps a temporary thing? Yet, "is no longer allowed to come back" is permanent. Right?
Ace,
What character will will you go as ?I've got a suggestion ,how about Gomer Pile.(surprise,susprise, susprise ,shucks sarg(steve gaines) wouldn't lie to me)
4545 said...
I do not know that, we really have NO clue what PW's told Dr. Gaines etc.
9:53 PM, December 30, 2006
From reading your past post I can believe you have no clue about what is going on around you.Pull your head out of the sand and look around there is a molester on the BBC payroll.
Rod,
Isn't it funny the only two people having trouble with others putting words in their mouths are you two.
There are more people who have claimed you guys put words in their mouths and each person who claimed that supports Steve Gaines... hmmmm....
Why don't you just try saying what you mean then in not such an acid manner? Is that possible?
We have....but would you like a taste of the way we're being treated? Okay... You are unbelieveable, Rod. I can't believe that you just said you support pedophiles... you are sick.
ATTENTION TO EVERYONE: Rod never said that, I know. But guess what? I've never said that either but people post that all the time here.
Ace,
Yes, I forgive you, but your comments were a stinging slap across my face, and i'm sure the other women feel the exact same way.
While i forgive you, I choose not to expose myself to you any further.
Nass, is there an ignore feature on this blog where we can block out those who are deliberately cruel, hateful, and insensitive?
Oh I was there for the beastiality sermon and I and my wife were taken aback by those comments.
imaresistor,
You have e-mail :).
ace wrote:
"Those aren't facts."
It's not a fact that a police report was filed?
Well, assuming your source is legitimate, at least you posted some actual information about something for a change. Thank you.
ImAResistor,
This has got to be a joke! Yet Paul Williams was just put on administrative leave? That leads one to think at one point he might be coming back...perhaps a temporary thing? Yet, "is no longer allowed to come back" is permanent. Right?
Proof that you will never be satisfied. Wait for the results of the investigation of P.W. then start posting about that issue again. You'll have to contact Bellevue for more info on the "rape" and what happened.
Ju Said:
"Oh I was there for the beastiality sermon and I and my wife were taken aback by those comments."
Steve Gaines did a sermon on that?
Ace,
Thanks for the reply.
I'm feeling really old here. When I was a youngster,we called our church class parties by simple little names like "BTU Party"...(BTU was Baptist Training Union), etc.
But, of course, that was in the days when Bible Fellowship Class was Sunday School Class, too.
I'm going to bed and pray that Dr. Joe's sermon tomorrow will be something that will focus on Jesus Christ and bless our church.
4545 said:
Also, again, this is a LEGAL issue and many on here are running their mouth about things they have no clue about. Dr. Gaines and others cannot just say whatever they would like at this time. What about that is so hard to understand?
response:
I find it hard to understand why any minister or anyone for that matter should not confront this issue or any issue with complete honesty, truth & transparency, no matter what the consequence...LEGAL or otherwise
NBBCOF,
It's not a fact that a police report was filed?
It was reported as a rape but there was no rape. It was consensual.
Well, at least you posted some actual information about something for a change. Thank you.
For a change? Ha... no problem...
Ace,
You are obviously connected pretty well if you know those type of details about the alleged rape on campus. Do you have any updates on how the investigation is going?
NThePew,
From reading your past post I can believe you have no clue about what is going on around you.Pull your head out of the sand and look around there is a molester on the BBC payroll.
And I assume you know everything about P.W. and Steve Gaines and you were in the meeting between the two? Forgive me for not knowing that earlier.
facts only please -
There are several on the platform that need those barf bags too - and that is a fact!
Ace, are you Mike Bratton?
Rod,
Ace isn't Mike Bratton. Mike Bratton posts under his actual name :).
Facts only please said:
In Steve Gaines’ sermon on Sunday morning, September 17, 2006, our child asked how to spell bestiality. Now, that is quite sobering to have your child ask about this, especially in the middle of the sermon. If you would like to confirm this, please do so. It was in point “IV. Pattern of Marriage.” SG referred to four sins that defile a nation: adultery, abortion, homosexuality, and bestiality.
FedUp,
Yes, I forgive you, but your comments were a stinging slap across my face, and i'm sure the other women feel the exact same way.
I never called you a crybaby so quit complaining about that, please. I told you what I meant by that statement so don't go making something out of it because there is nothing implied from what you mentioned in the slightest bit.
While i forgive you, I choose not to expose myself to you any further.
That's fine by me.
Nass, is there an ignore feature on this blog where we can block out those who are deliberately cruel, hateful, and insensitive?
Nope, just scroll past all posts by 'ace' - join the club of people already doing that.
ju wrote:
"NBBCOF can you please find the original post where this information was leaked and repost it?"
Are you kidding me? LOL! I don't recall there being a specific post where it was all revealed. It sort of came out in bits and pieces about two weeks ago. Seems like it was on a Saturday night when it really came to light. Good luck!
NBBCOF
Ju,
You are obviously connected pretty well if you know those type of details about the alleged rape on campus. Do you have any updates on how the investigation is going?
No I don't. I am waiting for the results and will get them the same time the rest of the church family does.
Ace,
Did you just call Fedup "pathetic?" What is the matter with you? Fedup has been through a very traumatic time. I wouldn't appreciate you calling anyone that but of all the people to choose!
Ace,
Do you know if the charges were dropped in the alleged rape on campus?
Facts only please said:
In Steve Gaines’ sermon on Sunday morning, September 17, 2006, our child asked how to spell bestiality. Now, that is quite sobering to have your child ask about this, especially in the middle of the sermon. If you would like to confirm this, please do so. It was in point “IV. Pattern of Marriage.” SG referred to four sins that defile a nation: adultery, abortion, homosexuality, and bestiality.
10:17 PM, December 30, 2006
I noticed that pedophilia was not mentioned by sg.HMMMMMM I find that very interesting
Diana,
Did you just call Fedup "pathetic?"
Anyone who puts words in my mouth is pathetic. Would you not agree that that's a pathetic act?
What is the matter with you?
Absolutely nothing.
Fedup has been through a very traumatic time. I wouldn't appreciate you calling anyone that but of all the people to choose!
Go read all my posts. I call everyone pathetic who puts words in my mouth. Don't be so quick to judge.
SackCloth&Ashes said...
Bellevue has a minister who has been on staff for many years who, while serving on staff at Bellevue, sexually molested and sodomized his own pre-teen son and continued for some time thereafter.
The son is now of age and he confronted his minister father and the minister confessed in front of witnesses at the church.
Gaines has known about this for well over a month and little to nothing has been done. Gaines said that it was "under the blood."
While that may be true, it still does not relieve the minister of consequences in this life. If he would do such a thing with his own son, then perhaps it would be easier with someone else's. Usually this kind of thing can involve many other children.
To make matters worse, this minister has been over the record keeping for children's workers for quite some time.
This is far bigger than some private, family sin. Gaines should have removed the minister from Bellevue the MOMENT he found out about it.
Ministers of Bellevue have been removed in the past for adultery... how could Gaines have thought that incest and sodomy were not as serious?
God is cleaning house at Bellevue... The membership needs to wake up! It is time to stop all the standing ovations and get down on our faces and seek God.
Mothers of Bellevue find your voices and fathers of Bellevue find your courage! Your leaders have been quiet and spineless.
It is way past time for light and truth.
5:54 PM, December 14, 2006
Ju,
Do you know if the charges were dropped in the alleged rape on campus?
No, I do not know...but I'm not sure if charges were even pressed initially... But again, don't quote me on that...I really don't know.
ezekiel wrote,
I think that is part of this debate. Do we draw the line at raucus dancing parties in the church? A pedifile ministry? Just where, do we draw the line...
zeke,
Trust me on this, there is no overarching scheme behind the singles party. Rick Warren won't be there. He didn't plan it, and it's not the next step in his conspiracy to take over Bellevue.
Honestly, we had a 'Hollywood Party' in the college and career department 14 years ago!
There won't be any dancing. It will simply be a night for single adults to get together and have some fun. Is there anything wrong with that? Trust me, Hollywood won't be 'idolized'.
As for where we draw the line, why don't you tell me? It sounds like it's already drawn. I welcome your opinion.
Diana,
Thank you. I guess Ace is right, becuase i am sitting here crying. Not just for myself but for the other women who have already been met with the same disdain that Ace has shown us so many times already in our lives.
And this is why we don't tell.
FedUp,
I apologized to you. There's not much more I can do.
For the one millionth time, I was NOT talking to you. I don't know how to say it more clearly.
I was not talking to you.
I was not talking to you.
I was not talking to you.
I was not talking to you.
I was not talking to you.
Even more, I was not even talking about the situation you brought up.
I was talking about something entirely different.
I was talking about something entirely different.
I was talking about something entirely different.
I was talking about something entirely different.
Hopefully you and everyone else will get my point now and see that you were wrong in understanding what I was saying. I apologize again...but there's not much more I can do.
Ace
We "crybabies" are the reason PW is being investigated for his "moral Failure".
This blog really grates on you doesn't it? An open meeting for all who want to attend...and we don't even need the church facilities to have it. We don't need leadership's permission.
But unlike SG's "informational meeting" you actually get to SAY something.
Be thankful you get to speak at OUR meeting.
ace wrote:
"You're pathetic... "
There you go again with the name calling. Remember everybody's comments have little trash cans on my screen, and I know how to use them. Three strikes and you're out, Ace.
NBBCOF
Ace said in a post to fedupatbbc:
You're pathetic... thanks again for trying to put words in my mouth.
******
Yeah, I guess i am pretty pathetic.
This is the first account of the PW incident on the blog.
blessmewiththetruth said...
ARE THE WEIGHTS BALANCED?
Steve Gaines had leadership in West Jackson removed for sexual immorality.
Steve Gaines knows that a senior staff member has been accused of sexual immorality and takes NO ACTION WHAT SO EVER. He refuses to even investigate.
WHY?????????????
3:10 PM, December 06, 2006
I would like to publically thank ACE for advising David Coombs to contact David Brown with S.N.A.P.
Without that connection we would not know that David Coombs gave false information to David Brown in an official capacity on behalf of Bellevue`s current pastor, Steve Gaines.
Thanks also go out to David Coombs for at least confirming that Paul Williams had committed a sex crime upon a child.
All this information has helped so many to see how disbolic and sinister the wayward minister and his Bellevue boys really are.
And there is no wiggle room for any of them!
Ace, are you in High School? Do you go to ECS?
Blessmewiththetruth,
Please send me an email I have a question for you.
Ace,
It's so hard to understand how a gentle, considerate, compassionate, caring and positive person like yourself is so often misunderstood...
If Ace IS in leadership, is it any wonder why we are in the shape we, as a church, are in?
Rod:
What do you have against ECS?
ju- What do you and others NOT get about this investigation?? It is a VERY serious legal issue.
You and many others are acting like Dr. Gaines is running the investigation and can just do whatever he would like.
And the hammer falls.
blessmewiththetruth said...
ARE THE WEIGHTS BALANCED?
Steve Gaines had leadership in West Jackson removed for sexual immorality.
Steve Gaines knows that a senior staff member has been accused of sexual immorality and takes NO ACTION WHAT SO EVER. He refuses to even investigate.
WHY?????????????
3:10 PM, December 06, 2006
I have a question for Blessme. Was the sexual immorality you referred to in that post the PW situation or was it something else? Is another senior staff member guilty of a "moral failure?"
Like Sackcloth said, it is way past time for truth and light. Let's get it all out there.
graceupongrace said...
Rod:
What do you have against ECS?
10:44 PM, December 30, 2006
Where would you like to start?
Let`s eee.
The head of the school supports a pastor who supports a minister who is a sex offender and child molestor.
What else with Brian support?
I thought some of you might enjoy the following poem sent to me by a family member. My 19 year old son says he doubts things were ever truly the way portrayed by the poem...what do you think?
THE OLD PATHS
I liked the old paths, when Moms were at home. Dads were at work.
Brothers went into the army. And sisters got married BEFORE having children!
Crime did not pay; Hard work did;
And people knew the difference.
Moms could cook; Dads would work; Children would behave..
Husbands were loving; Wives were supportive; And children were polite.
Women wore the jewelry; And Men wore the pants.
Women looked like ladies; Men looked like gentlemen;
And children looked decent.
People loved the truth, And hated a lie;
They came to church to get IN, Not to get OUT!
Hymns sounded Godly; Sermons sounded helpful;
Rejoicing sounded normal; And crying sounded sincere.
Cursing was wicked; Drinking was evil;
and divorce was unthinkable.
The flag was honored; America was beautiful; And God was welcome!
We read the Bible in public; Prayed in school; And preached from house to house
To be called an American was worth dying for; To be called a Christian was worth living for; To be called a traitor was a shame!
Sex was a personal word.
Homosexual was an unheard of word,
And abortion was an illegal word.
Preachers preached because they had a message;
And Christians rejoiced because they had the VICTORY!
Preachers preached from the Bible; Singers sang from the heart;
And sinners turned to the Lord to be SAVED!
A new birth meant a new life;
Salvation meant a changed life;
Following Christ led to eternal life.
Being a preacher meant you proclaimed the word of God;
Being a deacon meant you would serve the Lord;
Being a Christian meant you would live for Jesus;
And being a sinner meant someone was praying for you!
Laws were based on the Bible; Homes read the Bible; And churches taught the Bible.
Preachers were more interested in new converts,
Than new clothes and new cars.
God was worshiped; Christ was exalted;
and the Holy Spirit was respected.
Church was where you found Christians on the Lord's day, rather than in the garden,
on the creek bank, on the golf course, or being entertained somewhere else.
I still like the old paths the best !
"The Old Paths" was written by a retired minister who lives
in Tennessee.
ace said...
It was reported as a rape but there was no rape. It was consensual.
Reply:
How could you possibly know this unless you were not both of the parties involved. What makes you so sure that it was later reported by someones parents. Were you the parent of one of the kids?
4545,
SG definitely has control over the internal investigation. To believe otherwise would be foolish.
Ace said...
"Proof that you will never be satisfied. Wait for the results of the investigation of P.W. then start posting about that issue again. You'll have to contact Bellevue for more info on the "rape" and what happened."
You are right...I will not be satisfied until Bellevue and all churches like her under the attack of these church growth movements are returned to Jesus Christ and under the leadership of those who are responsible and capable of guiding her. Like your last pastor, Dr. Adrian Rogers. I will not be satisfied until those so puffed up with pride are the ones removed from the churches and remain so until they repent, if they ever do. And I pray that they do. Christlike is LOVE and this is not the behavior I am seeing coming from the leadership at Bellevue and thousands of other churches like her all over the world. You need to get down on your knees and ask for forgiveness for all the manipulation you are doing to follow in the footsteps of those undeserving of your tremendous loyalty.
Wait for the results of the investigation? For what? The minister in question has already admitted to incest. The man shouldn't even be investigated by the church. Any minister with any fear of God about him would have resigned immediately. If he had any respect for Bellevue and the membership, he would NOT be putting all of you through this mess. He wouldn't be stirring up all these emotions of the victims of this hideous crime. This is shameful. It should have already been handled. Considering he did not resign...he should have been dismissed permanently. End of that discussion. And as far as contacting the church for any further information on the "rape and what happened"...no, thank you.
Your reputation proceeds you...the church has been drug through such turmoil that it has lost the credibility it once so proudly had obtained. That is what happens when a church becomes like the world. That is what happens when an older church goes through the transitioning to become purpose driven, willow creek associated...
So...thanks but no thanks. And this is the only conversation you will have with me. I know who you are. And I know what you are doing. You are coming into this blog to stir the emotions of these resistors who you and all yours have already alienated. You are trying to distract the conversation and I will have to hand it to you...you are doing a great job. I pray for you and all the others just like you. I pray you will repent. Whatever decency you may have once had, I plea with you to focus on that and get down on your knees for the sake of Christ' church. This is not intended in any way other than to offer you Christian love and pray that you will see the error of your ways...
PLEASE! LOL Ace in leadership? I think not. He sounds like he is an angry teenager. I don't think he is much older than high school. That's why we can excuse him. You know what teens can be like! Well, some teens, anyway. Hot headed; don't think before they speak, and far too often find someone elses words in their mouth. They can get all confused and don't understand why they are never understood.
First Ace says at 10:00 PM
You're pathetic... thanks again for trying to put words in my mouth.
And then Ace says 10:31 PM:
I was not talking to you.
I was not talking to you.
I was not talking to you.
I was not talking to you.
I was not talking to you.
And after that, Ace said at 10:39 PM:
Well, did you put words in my mouth? Because that was why I called you pathetic....
**************
Folks, I'm convinced that Ace was on the Communications Committee. If he wasn't, he should have been.
fedupatbbc said
And this is why we don't tell
Sad to say you are right ,first you suffer at the hands of someone in authority or has total control of your life(parent,minister,priest ect). Then when you bring it to light ,YOU are the one who is criticized, that the nightmare you lived through was somehow your fault. We are told by the likes of ace and 4545and others that we need to wait on facts and to be compassionate to PW.They see nothing wrong with keeping him on staff . If you complain. you are a crybaby.
I understand how you feel and everytime I hear the words "moral failure" I cringe as it demeans all those who suffered so much and had their childhood destroyed.
To think that this drivel is comming from a "conservative church"
ATTENTION!!!
(1) THIS THREAD IS GETTING TOO LONG, SO THERE'S A NEW ONE. PLEASE MOVE UP.
(2) ACE HAS LEFT THE BUILDING FOR TONIGHT. IF YOU SEE ANY OF HIS COMMENTS BEFORE I DELETE THEM, PLEASE JUST IGNORE THEM.
Thanks,
NBBCOF
In my opinion, "moral failure" was not used to downplay the event.
And to the point about beastility (sp?) he might have used the term, but did he describe it in detail?
Pulled up a sermonette from an old friend. Thought it was appropriate.
Dr. Bob Jones III
The Holiness of God
You must sanctify the Lord God in your heart. If you make Him holy in your heart, it will make a big difference in all areas of your life. Many Christians tolerate sin because they have no Bible knowledge of Who God is. People have shaped a god in their own image and then put their approval on what is sin. You cannot add to His holiness. His very essence is holy. He is holy in His judgments and mercy. Until you make God holy in your heart, you will tolerate unholy thoughts and behavior that will dominate and characterize your life, even while you call yourself Christian.
Our holy God calls us to be a reflection of His holiness (I Thessalonians 4:7-8). Because God the Holy Spirit lives in us, the temple in which He dwells must be holy. God declared Himself to be holy, the Creator and King (Isaiah 43:15). Have you forgotten that God the Creator has re-created you through redemption? In Isaiah 30 the children of Israel wanted nothing to do with the holy God. They had blended God with their pagan gods. They would rather be deceived because that made them more comfortable (Isaiah 30:10-11). They did not want the Holy One preached to them.
Many of you want a god who is tolerant of your sin, a god who will "cut you some slack." That is what Israel wanted, and they are still under His chastisement today. When Israel turned away from the Holy God and began to make their own judgments, they lost the ability to make right moral choices. They could not tell the difference between right and wrong (Isaiah 5:20). They could no longer think clearly. They rejected God's standard and became wise in their own eyes (Isaiah 5:21), making their judgments the standard. This is intellectual pride.
When the standards are lowered, there is a wrong attitude about drinking alcohol (Isaiah 5:22). These people think they can use alcohol and it won't master them. Those who give a false hope of Heaven don't want to hear about the Holy One, the Righteous One (Isaiah 5:23). Terrible things will ensue when you don't have the right view of God. You will accept, believe, and practice things that reject the Holy God. Come before God with trembling hearts and reverence. Refuse to justify sin. Ask God to give you a proper reverence of Him and His Word. The Holy One will enable you to be holy as He is holy. This is what He desires for us.
fedupatbbc said...
Diana,
Thank you. I guess Ace is right, becuase i am sitting here crying. Not just for myself but for the other women who have already been met with the same disdain that Ace has shown us so many times already in our lives.
And this is why we don't tell.
10:28 PM, December 30, 2006
Don't be afraid; we are not defined by our past. Christ Jesus has set us free. Those chains of the past cannot hold us anymore! He is Lord and we are complete in Him!!!
ATTENTION!!!
(1) THIS THREAD IS GETTING TOO LONG, SO THERE'S A NEW ONE. PLEASE MOVE UP.
(2) ACE HAS LEFT THE BUILDING. IF YOU SEE ANY OF HIS COMMENTS BEFORE I DELETE THEM, PLEASE JUST IGNORE THEM.
Thanks,
NBBCOF
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