It's now after the meeting. If you were there, please give your impressions.
The Communications Committee said they'd begin at 8:00 tomorrow morning (November 26th) instead of the usual 8:30. They meet in the first room on the right down the hallway to the left of the ERC and Fellowship Hall. There were at least 75 people there last week. We need to be there this week -- in great numbers! Go with an open mind and a pen and notepad to take notes and remember to be respectful if you're going to ask a question.
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423 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 423 of 423flatfoot wrote:
"Wasn't the prayer building we were going to build from the Love Offering like 2 years ago under Dr. Rogers? or am I not understanding his point?"
It could have been part of the 2004 plan (meaning I don't know), but it was definitely 2005's project.
Exhibit A
I will clear up two rumors right now that I have read about my father Dr. James Whitmire on this thread.
To whoever Carol is that commented around 2:30 pm on the 27th, you have no idea what
you are talking about.
First, My father is NOT being paid HUSH money. He was asked to work with the Singing Christmas Tree, the Passion Play, and do the SBC in July, by Bellevue. Even Steve Gaines mentioned this the night my dad announced his retirement. Steve Gaines even joked about that they would not allow him to do all that work without being paid for it. He wanted Bellevue to know that they would still give my dad a pay check for his work. I’m sure Bellevue might still have the video of that night or a transcript so you can read on what was said that night by my dad and Steve Gaines. My father is a man of peace, a man of incredible integrity, and a man of great wisdom. He gave his word that he would stay and help out and that was exactly on what he did. So please do not shame my father. If you have something to say about my father then you can say it to my face or say to anyone in my family. If you do not know how to reach us, we are in the phone book.
Second, My father was NOT planning on retiring long before Steve Gaines came to Bellevue. The family always talked long ago with my father that one day, after Dr. Rogers retired, that the new pastor might want to bring in his own Minister of Music. This is a fact that happens all the time with churches. My father was planning on retiring in June of this year. Steve Gaines wanted to bring Jamie Parker along as soon as he could, so my father decided to retire 6 months early. This allowed Jamie Parker to take over in Jan. of this year. This rumor of my father planning on retiring long before Steve Gaines is false. A deacon already knows all the truth about this rumor and last year and has apologized to my parents. I thank him for that. I will not give his name but he knows who he is. The leaders of Bellevue know the truth. I’m sorry that I broke in the other discussions on this thread. Just remember that family members of people being talked about on these threads might be reading them. I will always defend my fathers name, integrity, and character. He is truly a Man of God and PEACE. He is not whispering behind closed doors. He has been helping other churches sing praises to Jesus and worship the Lord. He is retired from Bellevue but not the ministry. If I can be half the man that he is in my life than I will be satisfied.
Joshua David Whitmire
I am brand new to blogging and very timid about it. However, I have been lurking here since September and I just had to join in (now that my husband is in bed and won't laugh at me..)
I've been a BBC member for almost 25 years and my kids are in the youth group. We homeschool so BBC is like the hub of their universe. Dr. Rogers was my "spiritual father" and I cried many tears when we lost him. We can't imagine leaving our church. It would be like ripping away part of our flesh.
I love everyone on this blog - even though I don't know who many of you are. I admire NASS, Karen, and Still Waiting and Watching for your wit and wisdom - we all need a little humor at times like these.
I do not think any apologies would have ever been made had it not been for this blog - thanks NASS for making it possible. I have no check in my spirit about being here. We had no other recourse.
I do have friends who would rather keep their heads in the sand than have to consider leaving. I tell them that knowing the facts does not mean you have to leave. Stay and pray. Speak out when given the chance. I can't do much myself but I can pray for those who can.
I am running to Jesus more these days. Once, Bellevue was like an oasis in the desert and now it is a has become part of the desert. I still have Jesus and his living water. He's always near when I seek him out. He hasn't left us. I believe he is working. I love my church, but we need newleadership - or leadership with new hearts.
My heart has been too full thus far to comment. I have let others speak for me- including my husband. But I want my small voice to be heard, as insignificant as it may be.
Thank you, piglet. Your words are appreciated! Please continue to comment as you feel led.
NASS
JoshuaDavidWhitmire
I am so sorry that you or any of your family ever had to read some of the things that have been written here. Everytime I read something like that I wince and I am not even being spoken about.
I believe that 99.9% of people who post here are in total support of your father and it is just more shame that some speak about that which they have no right to speak about.
I and many many others would change things at once IF we had the power or opportunity to do so.
I saw your dad early this week and told him I loved him and appreciate his service.
Just be comforted in the fact that even Jesus was talked about in His time. The Bible even says beware f everyone always speak good of you.
Your father and your family are in good company.
I will continue praying for your father and your family.
JDWhitmier,
I also think most everyone supports your father and your family. We too have been in the choir and active at Church for years. Thank God for all your dad has done for our Church.
Some people may wonder why Jim will not go public himself? Many in the choir feel this way. It would help things if he would not remain silent and speak out publically to the Church. Why is he not speaking to us? I know you are his son but that is not the same as Jim speaking. I am praying for courage for him just like I did for Dr. Rogers during the hard times at the Southern Baptist Convention.
It's good to know that Rev. Whitmire has a place of service at GBC. I know they are greatly blessed to have him there, and that God is using him mightily. The Lord is working all things out to His glory.
Rom. 8:28
Josh:
I have known your dad since he first came to BBC, was in the youth choir and all the activities surrounding it. My husband and I cared for your brother Luke in the nursery at the downtown church. (What stories I could tell!)
Thank you for your words of truth. I know your father to be a man of truth, intergity and honor. He is a godly man full of wisdom. As I stated in an earlier "thread" I have only a few spiritual mentors and they are Dr. Adrian Rogers, Dr. Tommy Lane, Dr. Jim Whitmire and Carolyn Higginbothem. These 4 people taught me more about how to worship God and live the Christian life than any others. The things I learned I carry with me each day of my life. I love and admire them and cherish the times spent with them.
I know that folks at BBC miss your father terribly and are still grieving over the death of Dr. Rogers and the retirement of your dad. We live out of town now, but I keep up with things in Mphs and at BBC and we know that he has been VERY busy being faithful to The Lord and the ministry of His church.
Our prayers are with you and your family during these difficult days , as well as the BBC family during this difficult time.
Again, thank you for speaking out on behalf of your father and your family. Much Love!
Lisa Crawford (Cradelroll)
joshuadavidwhitmire, thank you for your comments. Your father is blessed to have you for a son. I learned the truth about your father's "retirement" almost as soon as it happened. I believe this event is what smacked us in the face and caused us to realize something was horribly wrong at Bellevue. If the current leadership of our church had been more patient and cunning we might not be at this point today; we might have been deceived. So, in a cruel way, we are beneficiaries from your family's sacrifice, and the sacrifice of others who have gone. We love you and your family, and we will always be grateful for you.
Concerning the need for a business meeting:
Some have been calling for Mt. 18 since the beginning of these problems related to Mark Sharpe, Riad Saba, etc. Others have said either that Mt. 18 had not been followed, did not apply, or did not apply to the pastor. But, no one is above the Word of God.
The quotation comes from a time when there was a similar problem. Luther brought charges against the Pope; however, in Luther's day the Pope controlled any attmpt to bring about a free, impartial forum to resolve the differences that existed. The Pope said that he was above the tempral law, or that his interpretation of the scripture was the true interpretation, or when any attempt was made to call a council the Pope claimed to be the only one with power to call a council.
Bellevue is in a similar mess. There may be legal matters that need to be dealt with. There are those saying that Mt. 18 is not the way to handle these problems. All that is happening seems to be the current leader(s) blocking attempts at a scriptural forum.
Luther believed that it was necessary for true believers to do whatever was in their power to see to it that such a scriptural, free, forum that would seek the truth be established.
Since the biblical process was short-circuited by leadership, similar forums have popped up on the internet.
Still, we need Mt. 18 to be exercised. And we need regular, quarterly business meetings so that the membership does not remain voiceless. In my opinion as usual.
Martin Luther refers to Matthew 18
Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation
(1520)
The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.
First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.
Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.
Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...
Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.
.... The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . . If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.
JOSH WHITMIRE - You rock buddy! Thank you so much for posting the truth! I, like many others on this blog CRINGE at the untruths that have been hurled at your family. I am so glad that you've taken a stand for your family - I know your parents think the world of you. Don't ever be silent!
Love,
Karen Turk Marshall
*did you know your dad married my husband and I just about 10 weeks ago! :)
piglet,
email me - my address is on my profile. Just click my name. Thanks!
November 29 - Love Worth Finding - Daily Devotion
BIBLE MEDITATION:
“In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT:
The will of God will never take you where the grace of God cannot keep you. His power is ever-present in your life as His child. If I could have been there in the days of His flesh, I would have wanted to see Him walk across the sea and calm the waves. I can just see that kingly form with the wind in His hair, putting His foot steps on the sea, His garments billowing back. Smiling at the storm. When the disciples saw Him walking on the water what was their biggest problem? The water. Jesus, in essence, was saying, “What looks like is going to be over your head, is already under My feet.”
ACTION POINT:
What are some problems that are drowning you in fear, in discouragement, in sadness today? Give them to Jesus. Remember what is over your head is under His feet.
Folks,
It seems that there are a number of people that have been incorrect in their "facts" concerning Dr. Whitmire. It also seems that the very things that we have been acused of are what they now have found to be guilty of. My intention is not to point a finger of blame. I believe that many of these were sincere in believing what they had been told. It would probably serve some well to begin wondering what else they have been told that is simply not true.
Joshua David Whitmire,
God bless you and your family. I had written of many of the wonderful things that your father had done at Bellevue over the years on the "We Are Not Alone!" thread.
Dr. Whitmire had incredible discernment in determining what would create an environment of worship. He also had the ability to lead us as a congregation into true worship. He has been greatly missed and many of us love him dearly.
Thank you so much for standing to clarify and correct those concerning the truth.
bereans wrote:
A lot of stuff, including, "Most deacons today are apparently more concerned with keeping quiet and keeping their position of deacon than in speaking out against dishonesty and the other problems that are tearing the church apart."
In other words, what you're saying is it's a fraternity.
NASS
Dear Josh,
You and your family are among the greatest treasures of Bellevue's heritage. I hold your father in the highest regard, and always enjoyed working under his direction in BBC's productions (and playing in the orchestra in days long past).
Thank you for standing up and speaking the truth. We need more of that these days.
Collin Houseal
JOshua Whitmire,
Steve Gaines wanted to bring Jamie Parker along as soon as he could, so my father decided to retire 6 months early.
Perhaps you can clear up something here. 1) Did your father decide to retire 6 months on his own will? or 2) Was he forced to retire 6 months earlier than planned?
You used the term 'decided to retire' like it was his decision and I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly on that.
Thanks for your post, by the way!
Ace... You conveniently left off the part of the quotation that explained the obvious.
JoshuaDavidWhitmire said:
"Second, My father was NOT planning on retiring long before Steve Gaines came to Bellevue. The family always talked long ago with my father that one day, after Dr. Rogers retired, that the new pastor might want to bring in his own Minister of Music. This is a fact that happens all the time with churches. My father was planning on retiring in June of this year. Steve Gaines wanted to bring Jamie Parker along as soon as he could, so my father decided to retire 6 months early."
I heard that Mark Sharpe was not an "active" deacon at the time this all started to boil. As I understand, deacons serve a 3 year term, then they go inactive for a time period. If anyone knows, including Mr. Sharpe, please answer, and then explain what an inactive deacons does. Thanks
flatfoot,
A deacon serves for 3 years at Bellevue and then automatically rotates off for 1 year. I believe that is what you are referring to as innactive. This is done as to not burn a deacon out by overworking them. The duties are to counsel in the services, man the telephone lines when people call during the televised services, and serve the Lord's Supper.
Once your 1 year of being innactive is over, you are then offered an opportunity to return as a deacon as long as you still meet the qualifications of a deacon. The deacon and his wife are interviewed by a team of deacons who are on the Deacon nominating interview committee.
This is the committee that John Caldwill has chaired for the past 10 years in a row. There have been deacons in the past several years that have complained about John serving as chairman of this committee for this long but only to deaf ears. In fact, John Caldwill actually served as this chairman several years ago while he was the actual chairman of the deacons. This position is a very powerful position to have because they control who gets to be a deacon and who does not. John Caldwill also has a tremendous amount of power for not asking deacons back on to serve.
Once you are elected to be a deacon at Bellevue and any other SBC church, you are always a deacon for that church. You may not be an active deacon, but as long as you are a member of the church, you are considered a deacon. For years, inactive deacons were always invited to Dr. Rogers birthday party each year even if they hadn't been active for years.
If you are removed as a deacon, it's my understanding you have to be brought before the church body and be voted off.
Your question as to what does an inactive deacon do is probably that he enjoys the time off by not having to come to meetings or have to answer the telephone calls when people call in.
I think people are getting hung up on active vs. inactive. I don't think anyone ever said Mark Sharpe was kicked off being an active deacon. Ask Mark Sharpe and he'll tell you that Mark Dougharty just said "you are no longer a deacon at Belleuve any longer. Mark Dougharty knew Mark Sharpe wasn't active when he made that statement".
I don't beleive Mark Dougharty has the authority to remove any deacon from his position at Bellevue whether they are active or inactive.
I hope this clears things up for you flatfoot.
By the way, why do you call yourself flatfoot?
yes it does clear up some things, thank you.
and: FLATFOOT
Definition: slang for investigator
Synonyms: G-man, P.I., Sherlock Holmes*, agent, analyst, beagle, bird dog*, bloodhound*, bull*, constable, cop, copper, eye*, fed*, ferret, fink*, flatfoot*, fly ball, gumshoe*, informer, nark*, peeper*, plainclothesman, policeman, private eye, private investigator, prosecutor, reporter, roper, scout, sergeant, shadow*, shagger, shamus*, shoofly*, sleuth, slewfoot*, snoop*, spy, tail*
Flatfoot,
cJesusnme wasn't being sarcastic. I am referring to a post from last night. She(he?) was being serious. Have you read Sister Pam Gremillion's posts? She and her husband have been trying to get in touch with Steve for maybe months now. At least weeks. He seems to be unreachable. I'm remembering a time several months ago when a senior relative of mine spoke to Steve and told him she needed some counseling. I think she said he told her he didn't have time for that. I don't suppose he does but would it have killed him to offer her some support and maybe mention someone's name who could counsel with her? Maybe offer to pray with her? He was going to show us how to pray after all. Let's get real here. And I'm not being sarcastic either. I'm being quite serious. And no I didn't hear this from my sister in law's cousin's uncle. I heard it from this senior relative herself.
Diana
OKAY, EVERYBODY! TIME TO TIE A KNOT IN THIS ONE AND MOVE TO THE NEXT TOPIC (AT THE TOP).
Thank you,
NBBCOF
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