Wednesday, November 22, 2006

The $25,000 Question -- Life Choices Answers

Life Choices
Mission Statement

Life Choices of Memphis exists to provide a non-judgemental and Christ-like environment to educate and empower women to make life-affirming decisions.

In response to the recent donation of $25,000 to the First United Methodist Church of Memphis, Life Choices issued this statement.

Bellevue Baptist Church, at the suggestion of pastor Steve Gaines, recently made a donation of $25,000 to the First United Methodist Church of Memphis following a devastating and highly publicized fire in October which destroyed most of the fully insured, historic, 113-year-old church building in downtown Memphis. The donation was approved by the finance committee but never brought to the congregation for approval. The gift was not earmarked for any of the mission projects the church operates but was presented to the pastor of the church, Rev. Martha Wagley, to be used as she and her congregation see fit.

Certainly not all Methodists or Methodist churches share her views, but Rev. Wagley is a known supporter of pro-choice (i.e. abortion on demand) and pro-homosexual (i.e. ordained clergy, gay marriage, etc.) causes. Should Bellevue Baptist Church be contributing to an organization whose leader holds these views and actively promotes these causes?

When asked about the donation, the Communications Committee's response was, "We didn't realize they had a female pastor." Rev. Wagley was featured on news broadcasts and in the newspaper for several days in the aftermath of the fire. Is it possible that neither our pastor nor anyone on the finance committee could have not known this?

Would that have been the deciding issue? What about Rev. Wagley's stances on abortion and homosexual rights? Were those things not issues? What if she were staunchly pro-life and anti-gay-rights? Would this have made a difference?


ATTENTION EVERYONE:

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468 comments:

1 – 200 of 468   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Phil weatherwax is a well seasoned inter-city mission minister.

Phil Weatherwax knows the pastor of FUMC, He knew she was a woman.

Phil Weatherwax is a sunday school teacher at Bellevue. He preaches-teaches that abortion os sinful and homosexuality is a sinful.

Phil Weatherwax was and is Bellevue`s liason to FUMC.

Phil Weatherwax has been accused of being a racist by a former Bellevue staff person.

I believe that Phil Weatherwax is the man who was chosen to tell the AMENER to stop amening.

Bellevue claiming they were just ignorant in giving our money to FUMC is an out and out lie.

What we have is a group of LIARS in control of our church.

Anonymous said...

Phil Weatherwax and another staff member went to tell the amen-er to stop amen-ing, partly because Weatherwax was his teacher.

Let's suppose, that by chance, Steve Gaines DIDN'T know anything about FUMC... there is still NO excuse. Other staff members had to have known.

Steve Gaines inherited as much of a problem (aka- his staff) as he has created for himself with his comments from the pulpit.

Anonymous said...

Harry Smith is not an Ignorant man when it comes to MONEY.

Let me present my proof:

Vice Chairman - Business and Economic Development
Harry Smith
Schilling Enterprises
Harry L. Smith is the Chairman and CEO of Schilling Enterprises and Schilling Incorporated. He earned a Bachelor of Science, Accounting, and Economics from the University of North Alabama and was a partner in Huff, Compton & Smith, CPA’s prior to his current position.
A member of the Chamber Board of Directors since 2000, Harry served as Vice Chairman of Finance and was elected Chairman of the Board in 2001.
Harry has been involved with many professional associations such as the National Automobile Dealers Association, The Tennessee Automotive Association, and the Greater Memphis Automobile Dealers Association. He is also active in many civic organizations such as the Collierville Rotary Club, the Homeless Resource Coordinating Council, and the University of Memphis Foundation. He serves as Chairman of Deacons for Bellevue Baptist Church.

He and his wife Mary Elizabeth reside in Germantown.

Anonymous said...

"blessmewiththetruth said

Every time it`s our turn to place those little crosses in front of the church, I will remember the $25000 donation that just may have added some few new crosses to the Bellevue lawn."

That statement needs to be repeated over again to remind us and the leadership that they have
"unequally yoked "us with a church that overtly supports gay marriage and abortion."
To those who defend this as a helping hand to fellow Christians.
I feel sorry for you.If you do not have the ability to descern the true Gospel from the apostate.
You are trully an immature Christian and you need to seek guidance and education to learn
the difference.

Finance Guy said...

So Harry Smith sells cars for a living. Suddenly so many things become clear...

Anonymous said...

As a longtime member of Bellevue, we have always taken a stand against abortion. We have heard from the pulpit that abortion is the taking of a life that God created. There has never been any waver on this issue. On the other hand, we have always tried to reach out to those who are in need and who are hurting. We've done that in many ways through our benevolence ministry, sending people out for instance to help hurricane victims, mission trips to build churches, orphanages, ministry through our "Impact Ministries Center", and many other methods.

I beleive we have helped a lot of people over the years through the sacrificial giving of the sheep. A lot of money,time and prayer have been involved over the years and I pray they continue.

On this issue, let's give Pastor Gaines some grace here. He's from Gardendale so he may not be familiar with what's going on here in Memphis. He's only been here for a year.

I think the problem lies with the leadership of Bellevue. We see the root of the problem. Nobody wants to stand up and do the right thing. Why didn't Phil Weatherwax tell Pastor Gaines to reconsider ways we could reach out to MUMC? Why didn't Wayne Vandersteeg raise questions before authorizing $25,000 to be given? It was rather easy to find out they were fully insured. Is it that easy inside the church for a man to just say let's send X$'s to somewhere without proper questions being asked?

We are talking about a lot of money here. When you think of all of the needs out there, including our own sheep who are huring, we need to do a better job identifying who we help and how we help them.

It breaks my heart to see God's money going to a group that supports abortion and homosexual behaviour.

To help counter what has been done, I vote to immediately give $50,000 to Life Choices today.

Tim said...

dontbeatthesheep,

I agree with your statement concerning those that support this as if it is some sort of Christian relief effort.

"If you do not have the ability to descern the true Gospel from the apostate.
You are trully an immature Christian and you need to seek guidance and education to learn
the difference. "

Amen.

Finance Guy said...

---------------------------------
healingbalm said
Bellevue claiming they were just ignorant in giving our money to FUMC is an out and out lie.

What we have is a group of LIARS in control of our church.
---------------------------------
If they are not Liars, at least they are negligent. How often is and has this level of poor judgement exercised by the deacon and lay leadership at BBC over the years?
Is it only because the spotlight has been trained on the actions of the leadership that we are seeing some of this?
This furthers the argument for greater congregational oversight and involvement in these committees.
Surely in a church the size of BBC there are more than the same 10-15 people who have the intellect and integrity to sit on important committees.

I don't know why you guys are so down on the pastor, perhaps you should train your guns on the deacon leadership.

Finance Guy said...

Swtt said:
Why didn't Phil Weatherwax tell Pastor Gaines to reconsider ways we could reach out to MUMC?
---------------------------------
Apparently if you say "No" to the Pastor or "perhaps you should reconsider", he responds by saying you need to go find another place to work/worship.
I'm sure Phil doesn't want to risk his job. It's easier to take potshots from anonymous bloggers than go look for a new church to minister at this stage in his life.

Anonymous said...

everyone
As we start this new thread lets not let Ace, and hisservent and the other "blog Vampires"of the leadership sidetrack us with their inane remarks.Ignore tham and scroll on by.They really do a great job of bogging down the threads.
Derrick Calcote, I am waiting to hear from you concerning this issue, especially after the Life Choices statement.Your absence from the list since this has come out is very noticeable.Perhaps you are out of town for Thanksgiving if so I understand.

Anonymous said...

Wayne Vanderstegg is not and ignorant man when it comes to MONEY.

Here is the proof of my statement:


Financial
Group
VanderSteeg Financial Group

Our agents have the experience and knowledge to assist in simplifying even the most complicated family and business protection financial matters. We will work with you to help provide solutions to meet your financial requirements, ranging from life and disability insurance and IRAs for individuals to group insurance and pension plans for business. VanderSteeg Financial Group is committed to making our financial expertise work for you.

Tim said...

financeguy,

The "donation" was
initiated by the pastor,
accepted by the deacons, authorized by finance, and
delivered by staff.

I don't hold any one body responsible for this. I hold all responsible and each bearing the full responsibility as if they had acted individually.

Finance Guy said...

Tim,
Since such a financial expenditure goes through such meticulous review by so many different parties, why didn't someone stand up and ask questions about the symbolism of what we were doing, and perhaps is there a better way to minister to the sister church?

I belive it's because no one is willing or able to hold this Pastor accountable. A suggestion from him is as good as a command that is not to be questioned. We need lay leadership that is both godly and courageous as well as just flat paying attention! I can't believe the comments from Vandersteg, et. all that "we just didn't know....". I'm just a lowly sheeple, and I had enough sense to see what dumb idea that was.

Anonymous said...

healingbalm,
I think you are getting Wayne mixed up with his son Russ.

Anonymous said...

When a man surrounds himself with men who can't or won't challenge him, it's over as far as leadership goes.

Anonymous said...

I called Vandersteeg Financial Group and asked if Wayne Vandersteeg was part of the group and they said YES.

I asked a 2nd time to be sure and they said YES.

This is all I can say about it but I will continue to research!

FYI

The lady I ralked to today said she was a fill in for the holiday, so I will keep check.

Tim said...

financeguy,

The excuse of just being "ignorant" is not going to cut it. These fellows need to get back to the power point presentations and come up with another logical and reasonable explanation.

The money came from the "benovelence fund" is as bad if not worse. I would rather think that the were "ignorant" than to realize that they were flat "stupid and irresponsible". Once again it is time to for them to get another logical and reasonable explanation.

While they are at it they may want to consider that one day they will have to stand before God Almighty and give an account for these actions. I seriously doubt that he is going to find any logical and reasonable explantion to be satisfactory. Don't you think that standing before God Almighty that those responsible for this will have to say, "Please Forgive us Lord, we are sinful". So why wait until then, why not at least act (pretend to be in some cases) like men of God and do it now.

CH said...

Tim,

To your 11:36 comment, don't forget "congregationally approved."

Oh, wait...

Will McKay said...

Finance guy,

"So Harry Smith sells cars for a living. Suddenly so many things become clear..."

So does Jesse McClerkin.

Anonymous said...

Steve Gaines AGREES THAT WE SHOULD TAKE A STAND ON MORAL ISSUES ..... Why doesn`t he practice what he preaches???

Quoted from July 11, 2006 Baptist Press

In his sermon, Gaines preached from Acts 9:31 about the marks of a healthy church.

While some may suggest that the idea of preaching behind a pulpit is passé, and that churches shouldn't take stands on moral issues of the day like abortion, homosexuality and gambling, Gaines said he disagrees. He also doesn't support the trend of churches that embrace technology and water down their message.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

The donation was not approved by the deacons. It was only approved by the Finance Committee.

Tim said...

Just an FYI.

Schilling Enterprises no longer own any car dealerships that I am aware of. I believe that they sold the last franchise that they had the early part of 2006.

It is my understanding that there are some fairly strong business relationships between Harry Smith and Steve Tucker, that shouldn't effect their ability to serve our church, but it certainly doesn't help things.

Tim said...

sw&w,

My bad. Deacons are off the hook on this one. You guys can let out a sigh of relief, because there will be reprcussions for this act.

Anonymous said...

dramadramadrama
We know what you think of Jesse and Harry Smith. Sow lets stick to the subject of this thread . What do you think about the gift to FUMC??????

Finance Guy said...

Tim,
I stand by my statement regardless.

Finance Guy said...

This was such an incredible act of poor judgement, that I cannot belive that someone will not be held accountable. Watch the deacon leadership all run for the tall grass on this one. I wouldn't be surprised if before long, this will all be blamed on Earnest Ball. He's the one who approved the donation. That's right, blame the building engineer who just retired.

Anonymous said...

Steve Gaines speaks out against the comtemporay churchm abortion, homosexuality, ect.

June 16, 2006
Baptist Press

Gaines listed numerous problems and challenges being faced by America, such as terrorism, an uncertain national economy, finding a cure for AIDS, civil rights, global warming and nuclear disarmament.

"As important as these issues are, ... I believe they pale compared to two other issues that I believe will determine the future of America," Gaines warned. "I personally believe with all of my heart that the two issues that will determine what God will do not only with America but to America are abortion and homosexuality. ... America's economy and America's safety are more tied up with what's going on in those courts in Massachusetts than what's going on in Wall Street or over in Iraq."

Organizations such as the American Medical Association, Planned Parenthood, the American Civil Liberties Union and National Organization for Women and federal judges may approve of abortion, but God does not, Gaines said.

"There is little difference between what abortion doctors do every day in America and what those Muslim terrorists did when they took a butcher knife and cut the head off of Nicholas Berg," Gaines said. "We must call to account unelected, unaccountable, out-of-control federal judges who are ruining our nation. ... Abortion is murder, abortion is sin, abortion is an abomination in the eyes of a holy God."

Since the Roe v. Wade decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in 1973, 42 million babies have died because of abortions, Gaines said.

"That is the equivalent of the total population of 15 of our states," Gaines said. "I submit to you today, ladies and gentleman, that in God's eyes abortion is nothing short of child sacrifice."

Gaines called on Southern Baptists to "up our commitment" to fight homosexuality and same-sex "marriage."

"God characterized homosexuality as an abomination in Leviticus 18, and He sandwiched it right between adultery, child sacrifice and having sex with an animal," Gaines said. "We need to be more committed than the gay activists in our land....

"We need to tell this sick society of ours what the Word of God says. We need to tell them that God never created anybody to be a homosexual.... There is no way God endorses any kind of marriage except heterosexual marriage."

The true enemy of American Christians is not the gay community, Gaines commented, but rather the devil.

"We love [homosexuals] because we know -- as Jesus said from the cross -- 'they know not what they do.' They're in bondage, but aren't you glad today Jesus Christ can set people free from all sorts of bondage, even homosexuality?"

Gaines commended a recent decision by United Methodists' General C Conference to reaffirm the group's opposition to homosexuality. "God bless you, United Methodists. You did John Wesley proud," Gaines said.

But, Gaines added, "We must condemn the appointment of the homosexual Episcopalian priest, Gene Robinson, as the bishop of New Hampshire and say, 'That is wrong.' And then we must also commend the Episcopalians who opposed his appointment."

Southern Baptists should oppose "pro-homosexual television programming," such as "Will and Grace," "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and MTV's homosexual channel, Logo, Gaines urged.

"We must help curb the epidemic spread of lesbianism by telling our daughters and our young girls that the passionate kisses shared by Madonna, Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera at MTV's Video Music Awards last August were an abomination to a holy God," Gaines said.

Just as conservatives reclaimed the SBC from "moderate and liberal theologians" 25 years ago, Gaines said, Southern Baptists should "now lead the way ... for God's people in this country to take back our nation from the militant gay activists."

Gaines advocated involvement by Southern Baptists in voting and voter registration.

"Encourage your people to vote only for candidates who have Christian values," Gaines said. "We don't need to tell [our people] who to vote for, but we ought to tell them that they don't need to let the Democrats tell them how to vote; they don't need to let the Republicans tell them how to vote; or the independents or a labor union.

"They need to let God tell them how to vote. That's what we need to tell our people. We need to tell them not to vote pocketbooks but to vote principles."

Southern Baptist churches may sponsor voter registration drives, Gaines noted, without any danger to a congregation's tax-exempt status.

For more information on how to conduct such an effort, he invited the audience to visit the website, www.iVoteValues.com, sponsored by the SBC's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.

Also, Gaines urged Southern Baptists to contact their U.S. senators and congressman to push for approval of the Federal Marriage Amendment. He provided messengers with the phone number for the Capitol switchboard in Washington, D.C.: (202) 224-3121.
--30--

Tim said...

financeguy,

I am not sure which statement you are referring to. I am assuming the "sells cars for a living."

All I can say about that car guys can thank heavens for lawyers.

Finance Guy said...

dramadramadram,
So is Jimmy Foster, but neither he nor Jessie is in a position of oversight of the church's finances. And if he was, and acting like Harry is, I'd feel exactly the same way.

Will McKay said...

Don't beat,

Good question...

Honestly, I could argue both ways. I see it as a tremendous opportunity to reach out to another local body in our town; I see also other opportunities within our own body that could have benefitted from those kind of resources.

Would I have donated the money? Probably not... but I'll support my church in doing so. I don't exactly have the same account balance as the church does, though.

Actually, my opinons of Harry and Jesse are very different. To discredit Harry because he was involved in auto sales is to discredit all in that same business. I know Harry, and only know of Jesse. There are few people that I respect more than Harry.

Anonymous said...

healingbalm,
I believe you can look at this website and see where Wayne Vandersteeg is connected. He may also be with Vandersteeg Financial Group but he is here as well.
http://www.loadingservice.com/team.html

stillwaitingandwatching said...

I have spoken out and spoken out numerous times on this issue and I think it is clear to anyone who has been on this blog where I stand. No excuse is acceptabe for this donation. Any rationale is ridiculous. This donation was blatantly wrong. I am beginning to wonder why people would truly call themselves pro-life and then support this donation. I am increasingly growing weary of my church and those who are in the church family that approve of this donation. It was wrong...there is no excuse! Our leadership needs to acknowledge it. Ask forgiveness and make sure something like this never happens again. Period. Anything beyond that is unacceptable.

Finance Guy said...

Tim,
I mean your assertion that Schilling has divested all their car dealerships. To me, that's not germane to the issue of what Harry Smith has done for a career. He's still a car salesman at heart (apparently). It's funny that he's involved in the horse tackle business with Steve Tucker, since to me, car salesmen are the 20th century iteration of the crooked horse traders of the 19th.

Tim said...

healingbalm,

It doesn't sound like any one is "ignorant" does it.

Anonymous said...

I hope you took the time to read Steve Gaines own words that I posted.

Steve Gaines should be running to apologize about the money he sent to FUMC and he should replace every dime of it out of his own back account. He is not a responsible Shepherd. He preaches a lot of truth while he lives different gospel.

Steve Gaines should be running to find out the facts about Phil Weatherwax and the racisl slurs being attributed to Phil by a ex staff person. He preaches against racism, he tells others to take a stand, but he lives his own life differently than the gospel he preaches from.

Steve Gaines should be thankful for members who care enough to take a stand for the things of God, instead of belittling them in his sermons.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Okay, this will admittedly drift off topic, but this issue has already been discussed at length in a previous thread, so here's something new.

I've seen a couple of people suggest we try to get the check back. First of all, it's likely already been cashed, but even if it hasn't, do you seriously think this would make matters better? I think we'd be on the 10 o'clock news again.

And speaking of the news, isn't it odd that only two news channels (Channels 5 and 13) picked up on this whole Bellevue story at all? And that neither followed up? What about the Commercial Appeal? They ran two stories, a day apart, there were perhaps 2 or 3 letters to the editor, then silence. Not another article or letter. Didn't that strike anyone as odd that there wouldn't be any more letters to the editor than that?

A source tells me that some people contacted the CA and threatened to cancel their subscriptions if they printed another article or letter to the editor about Bellevue. Funny, that hasn't worked with Wendi Thomas, but I digress.

I was strongly reminded of an article I came across over a year ago, long before I knew about the situation at Bellevue, which told of how Steve Gaines, when he was at Gardendale, and several other "prominent" people in Gardendale, managed to pressure local merchants to stop letting a free weekly newspaper be distributed from their places of business. You can read about it here.

I know nothing about the content of the Birmingham Weekly beyond what's on their website. I don't agree with all the opinions I read there, but I don't agree with much of what I read in the CA either. Unfortunately, the CA is the only major newspaper in town, so until things get a lot worse, I'm not cancelling my subscription. The Birmingham Weekly's site is here.

What really struck me about that situation though was that it sounded so much like what's happening at Bellevue now with "church officials'" alleged strong-arm tactics and their pressuring others to do their dirty work.

From the article: "No one [from the churches] complained to us directly, but all our distributors in Gardendale were saying the same thing: Some ministers in town were telling the businesses with our boxes that the Weekly was a danger to their children and the community, and if they didn't get rid of them their businesses would be boycotted."

Gardendale businesses were also pressured by public officials. Police Chief Wallace Campbell told Spencer that the mayor had instructed him to call a local business owner: "I contacted the owner of [a shopping center where there was a Weekly newsrack] and told him that the mayor's office had a complaint about the free publication being available to minor children."

(Apparently the newspaper contained an advertisement for a phone sex company, and someone's 10-year-old kid called it.)

Notice the statement... "no one from the churches complained to us directly... " but the business owners certainly got the message, didn't they?

Will McKay said...

Financeguy,

"He's still a car salesman at heart (apparently)."

Really? You are the first person I have ever met that has the spiritual gift of discerning another man's heart!

Don't go there...

Tim said...

sw&w,

Daniel 3:16-18
16 ¶ Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed'nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnez'zar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.

17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.


vs 16.
I have not had to carefully formulate my response to this issue. Power point presentation and "talking points" are not necessary.
vs 17.
God is able to deliver us from the furnace of iniquity and he will (ultimately) deliver us from this self-serving king.
vs 18.
but if not (in this life, then in the next), it doesn't change anything. We stand firm in the Word of God and firmly against those that oppose it.

New BBC Open Forum said...

finance guy,

I'm with "ddd" on this one. That may be your personal opinion, but you don't know that. Please don't speculate about Mr. Smith's "heart."

NBBCOF

Finance Guy said...

NASS
That's pretty funny. When Steve Gains came to Memphis, he had Bellevue advertise in our free weekly that has phone sex ads, personals for people with deviant behavor, etc. (Or at least they used to. I haven't picked up a Memphis Flyer in a long time)

Does he know that that paper has run very critical articles directly slandering Dr. Rogers over the years? Forget the donation to FUMC, how about God's money being given to a paper that is clearly the voice of the Pro-choice, pro-homosexual crowd? I'm sure the answer is "to reach the unchurched". That my friend, is a classic example of the "the end justifies the means".

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Holy cow....healingbalm....THANK YOU for posting that. I commend Dr. Gaines for his stance....however....does everything he said match up with his idea about the donation?

He said, "Just as conservatives reclaimed the SBC from "moderate and liberal theologians" 25 years ago, Gaines said, Southern Baptists should "now lead the way ... for God's people in this country to take back our nation from the militant gay activists." How are we doing this when we have donated to a liberal theologian?? I will say again, did Dr. Gaines compromise for the sake of unity in our community?

New BBC Open Forum said...

fg,

Maybe Gardendale just didn't need to advertise back then. But think of all the "unchurched" they could have reached had they worked with the Birmingham Weekly instead of against them.

NASS

Tim said...

Folks,

Does anyone know where the cabbage truck is that is headed out of town?

Anonymous said...

Harry Smith persoanlly offended the Whitmires nu taking their private thoughts and feelings of pain to his Bellevue friends and co-workers,.

He has played a vital part in harming the Whitmires.

His actions are a window into his heart.

He took part in sending this donation to FUMC.

This action is also a window into his heart.

He sat in the information meeting on Sunday and could have answered quesions that he had the answer to but choose not to.

This is another window into his heart.

Anonymous said...

From another thread which I'll just continue here since they are older topics:

swtt said,

I tell you what we are going to do. I'll meet you under the chandelier Sunday at 9:30. You bring yourself, hisservent-1, and
jcsuitt and we'll see exactly how many characteristics the three of you have in common.


You seem to have already made up your mind about this, why don't you just share your thoughts with us here for everyone to see?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

What exactly is funny? I fail to see any humor in your posts.

---


healingbalm,

I have had to muck my way through the posts for a couple of days because of two continual problems named ACE AND HISSERVANT and alias friends.

And we are problems..because? Just because you disagree with us does not mean me are the problem. What you are trying to do here is present only one side of the story. That's called censorship.


Morning, noon, and night they suck the life out of this blog.


If you consider the truth as sucking life out of this blog, then I guess you are correct. I'm sorry I won't let you gossip without any of my comments.


They are Blog Vampires for the lack of a better description.


Because you disagree with us, we are vampires...that's nice....

so those who really have serious concerns don`t have to wade through their repulsive and ignorant posts.

I have serious concerns, so I'll be staying, thank you. My posts are ignorant? Thank for your 1) your opinion, and 2) the attack.

Shepherd of this blog, please consider this ongoing problem and ban the disingenuous among us like ACE and HISSERVANT.

I think you will realize that the moderator of this blog does't censor people + delete posts/memebrs when the majority disagree with them. Isn't that nice? You people claim that Steve Gaines and friends don't listen to the other side, right? Guess what, if that was true, then you are just as guilty for trying to get rid of me and not listen to me.

Finance Guy said...

Drama/NASS,
The Bible clearly teaches you are known not only by your works, but by the company you keep.
True, I don't know his "heart", but I do know that his calling in life as a vocation was selling cars. It's legitimate to make judgments about people based on the choices that they make in life, and the people they choose to hang around with.
Enough distraction. Let's get on with the subject at hand.

Anonymous said...

The Alabama article only serves to prove what a hypocrite Steve Gaines is for placing Bellevue ads in the Memphis Flyer while the Memphis Flyet offers all manners of filth to it`s readers.

Tim said...

healingbalm,

Very true.

Either someone needs to clean those windows or it is awfully dark in there.

Anonymous said...

Some strong words are being used here about brothers in Christ.

If you disagree, then do it in the right spirit. If your religion hasn't changed you to the point where you can do that, then I suggest you change your religion.

A healthy dose of 1 John 4:7-8 and 1 Corinthians 13 needs to be consumed, digested and applied to this issue and all others.

And why are we digging up information on those in leadership and posting it? What is your motive? Why don't you post your name and where you work? I am asking bbcopenforum to consider deleting those posts as he/she has the opportunity.

Anonymous said...

"ddd said
Would I have donated the money? Probably not... but I'll support my church in doing so. I don't exactly have the same account balance as the church does, though. "
DUH just where do you think that the church money comes from????
I case you don't I comes from YOU and ME and the membership, so in essence you did give money to FUMC.
One last question for why don't you and the leadership invite her to speak to the church one Sunday? After all she our church finiancally supported her and you agree with her.....

Anonymous said...

Tim, I am told that FUMC has a staff position open and I wonder if Steve Gaines would be interested and it's also a part time position.

Anonymous said...

Everything I have quoted is on a public domain, offered to the world`s eyes and unless you want to stay ignorant of the facts, I would suggest you learn from what you read.

I will not stop the researching and gathering of vital informaion until the church stops LYING and spinning their WICKED WEB of DECEPTION.

Until that day comes they can stand by their words and their works or fall by them or change them.

Finance Guy said...

To Harry Smith and the entire board.
I was wrong to personally attack Harry Smith's character based on his vocation as a car dealer.
I apolgise and ask all to forgive me.
My feelings that he is doing a poor job "minding the store" remain the same.
FG

Anonymous said...

FORNERWORSHIPPER

PLEASE post under your real name instead of asking me to that way you can live what you preach.

Custos said...

My understanding is that Bellevue gave LifeChoices a paltry $4,000 last year. Can anyone confirm this?

Anonymous said...

stillwaitingandwatching said...
Holy cow....healingbalm....THANK YOU for posting that. I commend Dr. Gaines for his stance....however....does everything he said match up with his idea about the donation?

REPLY:

NO and that just my point.

Tim said...

Folks,

I don't believe that Bellevue Baptist Church has ever contributed anything to Life Choices. The membership has but not the church. Is any one aware of a "donation" that has ever been made to this worthy cause to prevent the murder of babies?


Please if some one could investigate this. I would be very interested to know.

Anonymous said...

Wmen you get close to Phil Weatherwax, you will see he is really a hot headed man and is the man for Bellevue who runs our missions???WOW

It looks like we may have several "hot headed" minsters "Doyle Long" is another example. Did anyone ever hold Brother Long accountable for his rude phone call?

Is there a relationship with FUMC and any other minsters at church?

Can we get Rev. Phil Weatherwax to come to the CC meeting and answer question about the 25,000?

Do we need to clean house and send our current leaders to help other churches?

Bin Wonderin said...

There really is no excuse for this besides ignorance. Any other excuse is an admission BBC has funded a heretical/apostate church at the direction of the Senior Pastor and the finance committee. That my friends is a scenario I do not with to contemplate. This is not the kind of “church plant” BBC has typically supported in the past.

Where do we go from here? The Finance committee should at a minimum immediately:
1. Come before the congregation and admit the donation was made in ignorance;
2. Tell us that they did not intentionally and knowingly fund a heretical church;
3. Give us a list of all similar donations they have made in the past. Let the sun shine in so we feel comfortable this is an isolated error and not a pattern;
4. Admit that a "no strings attached" cash donation was wrong and would not have been made if the heretical teachings of FUMC had been in evidence;
5. Explain the changes that will be made to prevent another mistaken donation like this one from occurring in the future;
6. Ask for the forgiveness of the church for not being good stewards of the BBC purse.

I believe the congregation as a whole will not withhold forgiveness as long as humble and genuine repentance accompanies the admission that mistakes were made in the form of policy changes and a recommitment by the finance committee to be good stewards.

Absent this scenario of an ignorant mistake followed by a request for forgiveness BBC is saddled with a Pastor and finance committee that knowingly a funded heretical church. This is a much bigger problem. The intentional funding of a heretical church can be forgiven, but should the people who knowingly funded heresy and believed it to be appropriate at that time remain in office? Do they have the necessary maturity and discernment? Removal from office may be more appropriate if this is the scenario BBC faces. Again, I cannot imagine these men would knowingly fund a heretical church, so ignorance is the only scenario that makes any sense to me.

I believe most of us can forgive the error of this gift if repentance is genuine and steps are taken to avoid a repeat. If the BBC Pastor, staff and finance committee maintain that this gift is an acceptable use of any BBC funds under their control then BBC is in a world of hurt.

If Pastor Gaines means what he says then he will do the right thing. Let us pray for humility, wisdom and discernment on his part. Let us fervently pray the words that Dr. Gaines has proclaimed in the past remain the thoughts and attitudes of his heart.

Pastor Gaines on Homosexuality:
* "We need to tell this sick society of ours what the Word of God says. We need to tell them that God never created anybody to be a homosexual.... There is no way God endorses any kind of marriage except heterosexual marriage."
* “We must condemn the appointment of the homosexual Episcopalian priest, Gene Robinson, as the bishop of New Hampshire and say, 'That is wrong.' And then we must also commend the Episcopalians who opposed his appointment."
* "We must help curb the epidemic spread of lesbianism by telling our daughters and our young girls that the passionate kisses shared by Madonna, Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera at MTV's Video Music Awards last August were an abomination to a holy God," Gaines said.


Pastor Gaines on Abortion:
* "That is the equivalent of the total population of 15 of our states," Gaines said. "I submit to you today, ladies and gentleman, that in God's eyes abortion is nothing short of child sacrifice."
* "There is little difference between what abortion doctors do every day in America and what those Muslim terrorists did when they took a butcher knife and cut the head off of Nicholas Berg," Gaines said. "We must call to account unelected, unaccountable, out-of-control federal judges who are ruining our nation. ... Abortion is murder, abortion is sin, abortion is an abomination in the eyes of a holy God."


NOTE:
For what it is worth I am unsure whether FUMC is apostate or heretical or both. It is a distinction without a difference to me.

Heretical = Characterized by, revealing, or approaching departure from established beliefs or standards.
Apostasy = Abandonment of one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause

Anonymous said...

healingbalm,

I will not post my real name, but I will say something about the name you have chosen to post under.

Change your post-name or change your character....

Anonymous said...

Star Parker Speaks At Life Choices Banquet
Bellevue Baptist Church
April 1st, 2005


Star Parker was the keynote speaker at this year’s Life Choices Banquet held April 1st, 2005 at Bellevue Baptist Church. Life Choices Women's Resource Center is a Christian, nonprofit, nonpolitical organization that strongly advocates the choice of life by giving alternatives to unplanned pregnancies. Life Choices offers all of its services and programs in a caring, nonjudgmental, nondiscriminatory manner. The services and programs are free and can be obtained by anyone regardless of race, creed, color or religion. The staff from Life Choices hosts a monthly Mid-South View Point. The program is heard the 1st Monday on Bott Radio Network’s 640 AM.

Star Parker is the founder and president of CURE, the Coalition on Urban Renewal and Education. Star Parker gives regular testimony before the U.S. Congress and is a national expert appearing on major television and radio shows across the country. She is the author of “Uncle Sam’s Plantation.”

Tim said...

custos,

I do know that at least one of the deacon officers has been very vocal in his opinions in the past that we should not got involved or give financial support to "political issues" (like Life Choices) because it would be a hinderance to the spread of the gospel. Surprisingly, they think it is ok to give to organizations pointed 180 degrees the other direction with no problems isn't it.

Anonymous said...

I would be in favor of offering Life Choices any office space or help they may need or any money they could use.

Tim said...

formerworkshipper,

You critisize those that speak out about the things that God calls an abomination. I believe that you need to question who needs to change what. I stand by what God has said and I do so in no uncertain terms. Granted, it will probably not ever be said of me that he loved people straight into hell, but I would rather offend a brother on his way to heaven, than decieve a sinner on his way to hell.

Christ had some harsh words as well. Those that post about things not being "Christ-Like", either don't know the whole story or refuse to believe that there is anything to "Christianity" than peace and love. Peace and love was the battle cry of the hippie generation of the 60's and there was hardly a more ungodly group ever in America.

Anonymous said...

formerworkshipper
When one applies iodine to a childs cut it will burn but through the initial pain of the balm healing is promoted and believe me we need a few gallons of healingbalm for this church

westtnbarrister said...

I can remember back in the good old days when we still had "Sunday School," my teacher suggested we discontinue any United Way payroll deductions because they fund abortionists.

Anonymous said...

Tim,

Those that post about things not being "Christ-Like", either don't know the whole story or refuse to believe that there is anything to "Christianity" than peace and love.

I disagree. You said that they don't know the whole story...question: do you know the whole story? I'll answer that for you...no, you don't.

I fail to see where 'hate' is a characteristic of Christianity, which is exactly what some of these posts qualify as.

Tim said...

ace,

You are welcome to your opinion. Good day, little one.

Tim said...

Ace,

I am referring to the story of Christ and yes, I do know the whole story and Yes, he did have harsh words. You would probably due well to read it.

Anonymous said...

Tim,

I am referring to the story of Christ and yes, I do know the whole story and Yes, he did have harsh words.

Sorry, I missed that part...I thought you were talkig about the stuff being posted on this forum.

You would probably due well to read it.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Anonymous said...

I remember when our church under Pastor Roger`s leadership voted to boycott Disney for having Gay Day.

The strong stance that Bellevue`s has taken in the past has now been tained by the leaders who suggested, directed, delivered, and approved the $25000 to a church who supports all that we have stood against all these many years.

Anonymous said...

These two are married and they shall never part,

Dust on the Bible and drought in the heart.

To live above with those we love,
Oh, that will be glory...

But down below with those we know,
Well, that's another story!!!

Anonymous said...

Hey FOrmer,

DOn`t knock my name or I`ll have to share why I have it

by the way I agree with don`tbeatthesheep and I would add

A healing balm begins with TRUTH and the TRUTH hurts especially when you don`t want to admit to the TRUTH!

Anonymous said...

Hey Former,

I think you should give credit to whoever wrote that poem unless you want to give the impression that you wrote it.

We read our Bibles and that the problem here, we just aren`t not stupid enough to believe all the LIES.

Anonymous said...

A healing balm begins with TRUTH and the TRUTH hurts especially when you don`t want to admit to the TRUTH!

I agree with this statement. It truly is sad that people cannot deal with the truth and keep resorting to gossip. It's like...they know the truth, but can't face it.

Anonymous said...

we just aren`t not stupid enough to believe all the LIES.

I wouldn't be too sure about this. It seems like a lot of people here are believing the lies...

Anonymous said...

I call on our church to immediately donate $50,000 to Life Choices to reverse what damage we have already caused along with an apology to the church body for the next several Sundays. It will take at least two Sundays because a lot of us are traveling out of town this weekend.

Perhaps it would be appropriate to send one week's worth of tithes to Life Choices as well.

Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Dances with Wolves,

If you don't know where that poetry came from, I'm afraid you'll just have to find out on your own! Hee hee!

Anonymous said...

Ace,

This is the Life Choices line of comments.

I know you can't believe your men actually gave FUMC the money but it's true.

You keep mentioning this being a lie. It's getting old.

Anonymous said...

I second what swit suggests

Anonymous said...

formerworkshipper said...

If you don`t understand that it is proper to give credit to the author of poems, songs, books, articles, sermons, then you are a silly goose (from Mother`s Gosses Rhymn book).

Give proper credit when you relay or copy other people`s work.

Anonymous said...

swtt,

I know you can't believe your men actually gave FUMC the money but it's true.

How do you "know" this? Please provide me with a quote from myself where I said no money was given. Oh wait - you can't do that because I never said that and you don't really "know." - You think you know and perhaps that's the problem here.

You keep mentioning this being a lie. It's getting old.

You people keep mentioning that Steve Gaines and the BBC Administration is a lie. That's getting old.

Anonymous said...

everyone
Iknow Iposted this early but as we see the blog vampires are at it again so here is a repost.

As we start this new thread lets not let Ace, and hisservent and the other "blog Vampires"of the leadership sidetrack us with their inane and immature remarks.Ignore them and scroll on by.They really do a great job of bogging down the threads like they are ordered to by the leadership.

Anonymous said...

wolvesbegone,

Your point is well-taken.

As best as I can remember I heard these from Dr. Adrian Rogers years ago. I don't know if he wrote them or not.

To everyone, wherever you stand on the issues,

Have a great Thanksgiving with your families.

Gotta' get ready for my folks.

Blessings,
formerworkshipper

Anonymous said...

ace said...
we just aren`t not stupid enough to believe all the LIES.

I wouldn't be too sure about this. It seems like a lot of people here are believing the lies...

1:39 PM, November 22, 2006

We're on the $25,000 Life Choices comment section. You said it, not me.
It's bad when you can't even either remember what you said or you can't believe what you said.

This seems to be a pattern of the administration and the leaders.

Anonymous said...

dontbeat,

Ignore them and scroll on by.They really do a great job of bogging down the threads like they are ordered to by the leadership.

I basically translated your post into:

Ace, Hisservant, etc. all disagree with the majority of the people here. They support Steve Gaines. *gasp* How dare them!!! We should do nothing but attack Gaines' character and if somebody should dare to post something positive about Bellevue or Dr. Gaines then let's just ignore them!

Hmmm...that's basically what you mean. Why don't you just come out and say that? I'd be much easier..

Custos said...

Thanks Tim. I've heard a couple of times that we have donated $4,000 to Life Choices, but I've not had it confirmed by anyone who would know for certain.

As for the deacon you mentioned, he should realize that IRS regs prevent us from backing candidates, not issues. What a joke! We can't contribute to the anti-abortion effort b/c we might lose our tax exempt status? Where have dug up these guys? They don't research whom they're giving money to, nor do they research laws that would actually protect them.

Anonymous said...

swtt,

We're on the $25,000 Life Choices comment section. You said it, not me.

I said what exactly? I am posting on this thread because the others have an excess of ~400+ posts and it takes forever to load the pages.

It's bad when you can't even either remember what you said or you can't believe what you said.

And what is it exactly that I can't remember what I said? It's too bad when people can read posts correctly or think they read something else than what was really posted.

Anonymous said...

First we have Phil W. asking the amen person "Mark Kelly" to hush, and now Brother Phil W. Delivers the check.

Why didn't Phil W. learn his lesson the first time?

Should we allow this man to continue or should he leave as well?

Our Church would benefit if all of the currents leaders left and served at other Churches?

Anonymous said...

GOOG NEWS for a change.


The first or second Sunday in December, the Deacons will elect "new" Deacon Officers.


Does this mean that things may change and someone else will have
to clean up this mess?


Who do we want to be the new Deacon Chairman?


Someone do the research and see who has already served as Chairmen and how many times already?

Letr's do the research on all deacon officers the past 5 Years??

Anonymous said...

LastTrainOut said...
GOOG NEWS for a change.


The first or second Sunday in December, the Deacons will elect "new" Deacon Officers.


Does this mean that things may change and someone else will have
to clean up this mess?


LastTrainOut,

I agree with ya. Now is the time to think about changing things. Is there any way to ask the church for only first time people only serving as deacon officers or even first time committee members only?

Anonymous said...

Ace,

you still floatin 'round out there?

What's got yall worked up today?

choice_is_yours said...

Archive for the study

Father in Heaven,

Thank you for today. Help us to know what is true and what is a lie. Give us discernment. Help us to walk humbly, showing the same love for others that your son showed for us at Calvary.
In Jesus's name,
AMEN.


Surely everyone here is aware that once Dr. Rogers was once almost attacked by some man who ran across the stage towards the podium. I saw it discussed here.

A long time ago, I heard someone say that the guy was "demon-posessed." Huh??

Today's (and yesterday's) passage from Luke talk about Jesus casting out "demons."

I don't really know what to think about verses like this.

But it's God's revealed truth so I have to try to understand it. So I'll try again. Please forgive me, in advance, as I've never fully understood this talk of "demons."

Personally, I think that everybody needs to hear about Jesus and accept Him as Lord and savior. That takes care of everything.

And the people mentioned in the text today and yesterday were not Christians. The Holy Spirit had not even come because it was before Pentecost.

There is no example in scripture of a Christian having a "demon."

I don't know if the guy who ran out on stage at BBC was a Christian.

But then here somebody just said that only 15% of life-time church members are **in fact** saved. I don't know how you get a statitic like that.

But we could all agree that there are **some** folks in the pews who haven't yet accepted Jesus.

So those are the same **KIND** of people as mentioned in this passage today and yesterday.

The **KIND** who could have all sorts of problems that can only be resolved by accepting Jesus.

I don't know. I do know there are some problems. And I know there are some people who need to accept Jesus.

And I know we need a revival.

All of us need to get right with the Lord. Whatever this text means about "demons," I'm pretty sure a good ole fashioned sincere revival will take care of everything.

Luke 4:38-44 (King James Version)

38And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.

39And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.

40Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.

41And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

42And when it was day, he departed and went into a desert place: and the people sought him, and came unto him, and stayed him, that he should not depart from them.

43And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

44And he preached in the synagogues of Galilee.

Anonymous said...

yet another personal attack and name calling. I guess that was another example of Christ love from all the great Christians on this blog to seek the "truth".

Anonymous said...

Last night,

Charles Gremillion said:
new prospect I'm from south Louisiana ,Opelousas to be exact. What s. Louisiana town do you hail from?
12:06 AM, November 22, 2006

Just wanted to make sure you saw my reply

MOM4 said...

NASS,
I have read the articles you referred to in your posts (Gardendale Follies:)- The thing that amazed me the most is that it was a subversive attempt (successful tho it was)to manipulate others. Although the desired end was supposedly one of the community's spiritual health, the means and methods used seemed to be "under the radar" so to speak.
I would rather have a true man of God that stated his convictions and acted upon those convictions than someone who moves stealthly in obscur protected circles to achieve the means to an end. This manner is way too political, somewhat like the "Donation of Ignorance" that we have just witnessed (ignorance....yeah!). Someone "hollered" about the money BBC has on hand and rather than face up to the accusations and answer appropriate questions, they just threw money in any direction. This is just another scenario of attempting to subvert authority and misdirect those of us who seek justification and accountability.

Anonymous said...

I've gone back for the past 10 days and looked at the posts from Ace & Hisservent.

They say nothing of substance. They are the author of confusion.
The playbook of Gaines and company is being played out through these men.
All they can say is "everything is a lie" or anyone questioning the pastor is a sinning.

This has been the playbook of the men who surround the pastor in his inner cirle for a long time.

I agree to not respond to this set of men who are all taking turns writing under the same name any longer.

WOUNDEDANDBLEEDING said...

Greetings to you in the precious,holy name of Jesus, who is our strengrh and our salvation!

Brother Charles and I want to be swift to let you know that Brother Doyal Long stopped by unexpectedly today and has apologized for the entire incident that occurred over this past weekend.

I thank the LORD for making another opportunity for me to express my heartfelt desire for him to know that I was only encouarging him to find out the truth and not challenging his walk with Jesus!

I also offered him my own apology for hurting his feelings though it was never my intention to do so and he graciously accepted my explanation and my apology!

Brother Charles, Doyal Long, and I are all reconciled in Christ and Brother Charles and I believe that this incident should be thrown into the SEA OF FORGETFULNESS FOREVER, never to be revisited again.

We did not know Brother Long before this but now we feel we do know his heart today and what we see looks Just like Jesus.

Just think what it would be like if our dear Pastor and our leaders and any of our members who are in conflict with others, would imitate Minister Doyal Long?

He truly wants anyone who has been offended by him to come to him so they can be reconciled with him as well.

I think that is BEAUTIFUL and I want to encourage each person to go to him in love so that the LORD will be Glorified and the body can at least be healed in part.

It is our hope that our reconciliation with Brother Long will be the first of many reconcilations at our beloved Bellevue.

Brother Charles and I would like to ask that our letter be removed from the thread description page as we will be deleting our original letters in a spirit of Christian love and forgiveness and we would like to ask each person who placed their thoughts about our letters to remove them from the blog, whether you wrote something pleasant or not so pleasant.

The LORD has been honored, HIS WORD has been acted upon, HIS will has been lived out before the church and before all men.

We can all play our part in this wonderful day of reconcilation as we, one by one, remove our text from the pages of the blog as they relate to this closed book.

The LORD has answered your prayers and ours and many more that we know nothing about, so let`s us give thanks unto the LORD for this great thing he has done between brothers and sisters in the LORD!

Remember we love you!

Under HIS wings and in HIS love,

Sister Pam

Brother Charles says "AMEN"!!!!

MOM4 said...

Sister Pam,
I am so very encouraged that someone on staff at our church has the Christlike love that God intended our shepherds to have. I am deleting all my posts as you requested and I want to commend Pastor Long for his love and concern. This is why the Lord placed him in the pastoral care ministry, because he does truly indeed care about the flock. Finally, an HONEST MAN!
Thank you!

Anonymous said...

SR wrote:

"25+yrs,

If you have time, would you interpret the Lutheran quote and apply it to the current situation so I can understand your point? I have to admit I'm confused.

You've posted it 3 times, so you obviously feel it's important to understand."


Response: SR, some have been calling for Mt. 18 since the beginning of these problems related to Mark Sharpe, Riad Saba, etc. Others have said either that Mt. 18 had not been followed, did not apply, or did not apply to the pastor. But, no one is above the Word of God.

The quotation comes from a time when there was a similar problem. Luther brought charges against the Pope; however, in Luther's day the Pope controlled any attmpt to bring about a free, impartial forum to resolve the differences that existed. The Pope said that he was above the tempral law, or that his interpretation of the scripture was the true interpretation, or when any attempt was made to call a council the Pope claimed to be the only one with power to call a council.

Bellevue is in a similar mess. There may be legal matters that need to be dealt with. There are those saying that Mt. 18 is not the way to handle these problems. All that is happening seems to be the current leader(s) blocking attempts at a scriptural forum.

Luther believed that it was necessary for true believers to do whatever was in their power to see to it that such a scriptural, free, forum that would seek the truth be established.

Since the biblcal process was short-circuited by leadership, similar forums have popped up on the internet.

Still, we need Mt. 18 to be exercised. And we need regular, quarterly business meetings so that the membership does not remain voiceless. In my opinion as usual.


Martin Luther refers to Matthew 18

Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation
(1520)

The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.

First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.

Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.

Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...

Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.

.... The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . . If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.

4:05 PM, November 22, 2006


25+yrs@BBC said...
Simply put SR... We need to pray for God to take away the walls erected by leadership, and grant us a forum so that real reform and revival can begin.

4:09 PM, November 22, 2006

WOUNDEDANDBLEEDING said...

MOM4 said...
Sister Pam,
I am so very encouraged that someone on staff at our church has the Christlike love that God intended our shepherds to have. I am deleting all my posts as you requested and I want to commend Pastor Long
+++

How precious it is that you can partake of the sweet fruit of reconciliation with us!

GOD bless you dear one!

Under HIS wings and in HIS love!

Anonymous said...

What we have folks is elder rule by a close knit group of power brokers. The congregation needs to be awakened to this. I agree with Bin Wonderin:

We need:

1. An apology to the congregation for mocking us at Union City. After all, some of us didn't fall off the cabbage truck yesterday!

2. An admission the cheerleader tickets are not a legit moving expense and reimbursement to BBC.

3. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.

4. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. Free tickets for the host and wife are fine but not for anybody else

5. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. Transcripts on the web within a week;

6. A transparent committee selection process.

7. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.

8. The signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services to the church. These people should be recused from committees that review bids for their services.

9. No church credit cards. Pay your own way and then turn in an expense report like I do at my job.

AND I would like to add...

10. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... AND any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!

11. The END of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members.

12. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members. Also:

13. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.

14. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.

15. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.

Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."

Anonymous said...

Since this is my first post, please allow me my position. I have been at Bellevue and at Germantown Baptist in the past. When Dr. Gaines came to Bellevue, I was elated, and found him to be a very good speaker. Having endured watching GBC change from a strong church to a watered down feel good social event, Dr. Gaines strong and often dogmatic words of "truth" was extremely appealing. However, quickly I began to see that he was no different than Dr. Shaw - great presentation but as shallow as wadding pool. Sometimes it was in the way he spoke, I would laugh at the joke, and than later, be terrifed that "the man of God" had said that, and that I had laughed. His arrogance soon became so loud that it drowns out anything he might say of value.

I tell you this for two reason, one, someone posted Dr. Gaines own words earlier on this post, and that is exactly the problem I had with Dr. Gaines. He talks a real good talk, but his walk does not reflect the talk at all.

Secondly, since this thread is about Life Choices, I wonder if maybe the Love offerings that were with held this year could be sent to Love Choices as a Christmas gift. Can you think of better way to honor the gift of Life of a Perfect Child, sent to Redeem us all?

Anonymous said...

Has anyone considered that maybe, just maybe, Dr. Gaines' heart matches 100% what he has preached from the pulpit regarding homosexuality, abortion, and racism? Could there have been a discussion between Bellevue leadership and FUMC regarding the necessity of funding ministries to the homeless on a temporary basis while FUMC has no building and has not received insurance checks (insurance will pay for the building, but not for ongoing ministries), and maybe, just maybe, Dr. Gaines' idea to start the process and send them the check was for that purpose? Is it possible that God may have put this on his heart? Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, God's plan was NOT for Bellevue to be seen as endorsing sinful lifestyles, but simply helping the needy?

Is it plausible that maybe, just maybe, with cold weather coming on and the vital and valuable ministry of daily feeding of the homeless performed by FUMC shut down, even temporarily, that God's design could have been for Bellevue to step up to the plate with this amount of funding - and for such a time as this? Is it possible that someone might have frozen or starved to death but for the kindness and generosity of Bellevue Baptist Church?

Is it possible that instead of jumping to conclusions about the ministers in our beloved church, maybe, just maybe, we should err on the side of thinking the best of them and praying for them? Is it within the realm of possibility that maybe, just maybe, their hearts are clean before God and there is a reasonable and nonbloggable explanation for everything that's happened?

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, we have only made matters worse and *dare I say it?* clouded the "truth" with our wild speculations?

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, Satan is getting the victory and that some of us here have played directly into his hand by the things we've posted?

Please don't respond to any of these maybes. They are not questions that need to be answered, unless they are answered privately in our hearts before the Lord. I am not a troll or a bear. Just trying to consider seeing things from a slightly different perspective.

MOM4 said...

Maybe, just maybe, the leadership would elaborate on their position rather than call it another "mistake of the mind" -
Really sir, don't throw an undiscernable "mix" into this, speculation is just that "speculation".
If you have facts, fess up.

Anonymous said...

I have no more facts than most of you.

Additional disclaimer: I am not an employee of Bellevue. I am not a deacon. I am not a committee member. I am not on staff, nor am I the spouse or close friend of anyone on staff.

My name is "maybejustmaybe" and I approve this message.

Anonymous said...

That was an attempt at humor, by the way. And no, I'm not Ace (real or pseudo) or Hisservant-1,-2,-3 either.

Tim said...

maybejustmaybe,

There might be a gold coin down in a wishing well too, but you'd have to dip the bucket an awful lot to bring it up.

Anonymous said...

Reminds me of what my grandmother used to say about wishing in one hand and ... um ... spitting in the other, Tim.

Anonymous said...

SWTT said:

"I've gone back for the past 10 days and looked at the posts from Ace & Hisservent.

They say nothing of substance. They are the author of confusion.
The playbook of Gaines and company is being played out through these men.
All they can say is "everything is a lie" or anyone questioning the pastor is a sinning.

This has been the playbook of the men who surround the pastor in his inner cirle for a long time.

I agree to not respond to this set of men who are all taking turns writing under the same name any longer."

Reply: Exactly...

Ace, The Real Ace, hissss sevant, hisservant-1, and other of the misled, lurking minions of the Bellevue oligarchy.... Goooo awaay! Scrraamm! Begggone! Your posts are predictable, devious, and unwanted here.

Trolls... what trolls?... scrolling along.....

Continue your rants in a vacuum. Ding, ding, ding... wave... wave... we can't hear you in there... ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY SOMETHING???

Your posts are like the annoying buzzzing of mosquitoes. Forum members interested in truth will simply ignore the buzzing.

Just my opinion (though I think it to be widely shared) of course.

MB clapped last time. Perhaps the gift to FUMC has given him pause. Or perhaps he took my melifluous advice.

Anonymous said...

maybejustmaybe

DEGININTLY NOT!

We are called as Christians NOT to even give even the appearance of evil!

We are called to yoke ourselves with anti-Christ ministries for any reason!

There is no maybe involved in any of this.

IT WAS WRONG! IT WAS SINFUL!

Anonymous said...

ANY money to FUMC might be directed to a certain pocket, but that just frees up more cash for some other agenda. No excuse will do. Pleading short time in town? I thought he was a Ph.D.? Pleading they give to the poor? So do some cults out there. Blame a committee? The buck should stop with the Pastor. Saying the money came from benevolence? Then it was given at Bellevue's Lord's Supper to FUMC... think about it! NO EXCUSE WILL DO. All in my opinion as usual.

Tim said...

Of course,

May be just may be, since this was already to have known to have been an issue by the past Sunday. We could have a pastor that would just tell us what happened instead of trying to rally the troops together to think up a logical and reasonable explanation. The truth just isn't that difficult and it doesn't change from "ignorance" to "benovolence" and then on to something else. I believe that it all goes back to:

(S)ilence those who oppose you
(I)nvite them to leave
(N)ever admit you are wrong.

I hate to be the ones to break it to this bunch, but this little opsie isn't going to be swept away.

Maybe just maybe somebody needs to hop on the next cabbage truck heading out of town. It would certainly be better than getting thrown on it.

Tim said...

Survivingthechurch,

Did it strike you as odd that the "Journeys of Paul" trip that was taken last year included speakers non-other than Steve Gaines and Sam Shaw. Birds of a feather flock together don't they.

Bin Wonderin said...

Maybe just maybe,

Your whole premise assumes that there are no Bible honoring ministries in downtown Memphis and that BBC must resort to giving money to heretics to feed the hungry. There are Bible based ministries BBC could donate to that serve the population FUMC does.


Would BBC ever fund a church plant that taught both homosexuality and abortion are acceptable? No you say? Well perhaps BBC just did.

Anonymous said...

Interesting. I posted this about half an hour ago and kindly suggested that we all pray about these maybes. Did you do that? Maybe if NBBCOF turns the blog off tomorrow, that would be something to consider.

And the idea of reposting the same posts over and over and over accomplishes what? Is that an idea inspired by prayer?

Tim said...

maybejustmaybe,

We have already prayed about it, before you posted the first letter of your post.

Anonymous said...

Tim -
Gaines and Shaw are friends and have been for a long time. That all came out during the proceedings that led up to the GBC split. While their presentations styles are very different (Gaines is a bully and Sam is very easy to talk to - but both are liars - in my opinon) I fear the results of their "shepherding" is the same - the flock will be left to bleed to death.

stc

Anonymous said...

Maybe just maybe this is going to inform some folks over the holiday week... Perhaps holiday pay would be expensive to pay the trolls... reposting certain posts seems to hit a nerve... especially number 13 on a certain list in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

maybejustmaybe we can invite Mrs. Wagley to preach one Sunday,
maybejustmaybe we can have the leader of the local gay-lesbian group give a class on Sunday
maybejustmaybe we can invite Planned Parenthood over for a seminar.
maybejustmaybe the leadership will admit and repent of their arrogence , lying and bulling the staff, deacons and the lowly sheep that pay for evething.

Tim said...

Survivingthechurch,

I had never heard that these two fellows were buddies. Where else have they been seen together?

Koragg said...

I've been reading this thread and I think I see an underlying issue here as far as it relates to the $25,000. Not withstanding the differences in ideaology about abortion, gay marriage, etc. It seems to me that a lot of people on this board have an issue with the fact FUMC's pastor is female. I personally don't see a problem with the funds being given to FUMC. While the ideaology may be opposite of BBCs with this being the holiday season, we should all come together to support FUMC as they rebuild.

whynotask said...

Union Mission is a block and one half from the burnt church and does the same work with the homeless. They could use some money since the federal gov't cut off their funding due to being a faith based organization.

Tim said...

koragg,

Are you a Bellevue member?

Anonymous said...

Tim said...
maybejustmaybe,

We have already prayed about it, before you posted the first letter of your post.

5:29 PM, November 22, 2006

Well my goodness, I sure wouldn't want you to surpass your quota and pray about something again. There were multiple items on that maybe list.

allofgrace said...

Koragg said...

I've been reading this thread and I think I see an underlying issue here as far as it relates to the $25,000. Not withstanding the differences in ideaology about abortion, gay marriage, etc. It seems to me that a lot of people on this board have an issue with the fact FUMC's pastor is female. I personally don't see a problem with the funds being given to FUMC. While the ideaology may be opposite of BBCs with this being the holiday season, we should all come together to support FUMC as they rebuild.

In the spirit of the season, why don't we just write some checks out to Planned Parenthood, Gay and Lesbian Alliance, and the ACLU. I'm sure they'd appreciate our support too. Have we lost our spiritual marbles here?

Tim said...

maybejustmaybe,

I'm glad that we are in agreement.

Koragg said...

Yes, I am a Bellevue member. Have been for about 3-4 years.

Tim said...

koragg,

So if our church adopted this same philosophy, you would be ok with that too.

Koragg said...

Of course not. But my point is, while there are differences in philosophy, we as christians should NOT be behaving in this manner. I mean, what if the tables were turned and our church had burned. Would you accept help from others who have different beliefs?

Tim said...

koragg,

why would you not support our church adopting these same beliefs? what difference does it really make what we believe?

Anonymous said...

I have read 2 hrs. worth of blogs today and I see no call to action. That is what the CC is all about. Listening to people and acknowledging their concerns and then it appears they do nothing.

The CC should report back at least by the following Sunday with any response that they could not or would not answer.

As I read earlier on this blog, the only way to really get action may be through a business meeting.

I was said earlier to have one of our member that knows the Robert's Rules of Order to ask for a platform for us to speak.

Anonymous said...

"koragg said
Not withstanding the differences in ideaology about abortion, gay marriage, etc.It seems to me that a lot of people on this board have an issue with the fact FUMC's pastor is female."

You have got to be a liberal. No honest mature conservative Christian would agree with you.We DO NOT SUPPORT ABORTION IT IS THE KILLING OF UNBORN CHILDREN,we do not support organizations that support or promote abortion.You seem to suffer from the liberial idea that we shold compromide to get along. Happy to tell you that this is one issue that I refuse to compromise on.And ditto on the homosexual thing.
Or maybe you really understand our objections and are tring to defend a stupid decision by BBC if that is the case you are a very dishonest person.Which is it.

Anonymous said...

25+yrs@BBC,

I like #13 on the list as well.

13. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.

Let this be known and it's over.

This #11 would be my next favorite.

#11. The END of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members.

allofgrace said...

FUMC is part of a denomination...one that I'm quite sure isn't bankrupt...if their denomination allows them fellowship under their theological convictions...then let them pay for their ministry..some of you who think it's ok for us to financially support them seem not to be able to tell the difference between bad theology and outright sin.

Koragg said...

I am a conservative. I just look at the big picture and not just at the fallacies of groups or people.

And Tim, I believe homosexuality and abortion are wrong. My problem with all the fussing going on about the money is that its the proverbial "Kicking a man when he's down".

Anonymous said...

And Tim, I believe homosexuality and abortion are wrong. My problem with all the fussing going on about the money is that its the proverbial "Kicking a man when he's down".

gee koragg lets not kick that woman who is down and wants to abort her child.lets kick the child, and since differences in doctrine don't bother you lets have BBC cut a check to planned parenthood. and have some mormons come over and preach.
Years ago I rented land from the pastor of an apostate church.A minister from BBC advised me to move.
He truly belived that I would be unequally yoked to that group.I took his advise.
Bellevue has changed

allofgrace said...

Koragg,
This really isn't about a man...it's about principle..it's about what do we stand for..or not stand for. We can't, as a church, talk out of both sides of our mouth.

Anonymous said...

What we have folks is elder rule by a close knit group of power brokers. The congregation needs to be awakened to this. I agree with Bin Wonderin:

We need:

1. An apology to the congregation for mocking us at Union City. After all, some of us didn't fall off the cabbage truck yesterday!

2. An admission the cheerleader tickets are not a legit moving expense and reimbursement to BBC.

3. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.

4. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. Free tickets for the host and wife are fine but not for anybody else

5. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. Transcripts on the web within a week;

6. A transparent committee selection process.

7. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.

8. The signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services to the church. These people should be recused from committees that review bids for their services.

9. No church credit cards. Pay your own way and then turn in an expense report like I do at my job.

AND I would like to add...

10. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... AND any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!

11. The END of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members.

12. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members. Also:

13. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.

14. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.

15. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.

Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."

New BBC Open Forum said...

koragg wrote:

"Not withstanding the differences in ideaology about abortion, gay marriage, etc. It seems to me that a lot of people on this board have an issue with the fact FUMC's pastor is female."

Good question. Anyone? I think koragg was saying "if there weren't any differences in ideology about abortion, gay marriage, etc.... " This was a question in the topic heading. That was the feeling (among others) that I got from the committee's one-sentence explanation, "We didn't know they had a female pastor." My question to them would then be, "So the other stuff wouldn't have mattered?"

NASS

Anonymous said...

I thought this blog was to be about saving Bellevue??

Most of these post do not give an plan for just doing that.


TimeForAction said...
I have read 2 hrs. worth of blogs today and I see no call to action. That is what the CC is all about. Listening to people and acknowledging their concerns and then it appears they do nothing.

The CC should report back at least by the following Sunday with any response that they could not or would not answer.

As I read earlier on this blog, the only way to really get action may be through a business meeting.

I was said earlier to have one of our member that knows the Robert's Rules of Order to ask for a platform for us to speak.

6:39 PM, November 22, 2006

Anonymous said...

RESTORE JIM WHITMIRE TO HIS GOD ANOINTED POSITION AS BELLEVUE`S MUSIC MINISTER AND GIVE HIM BACK WHAT BELLEVUE STOLE FROM HIM

Anonymous said...

We can debate some serious issues and I'm not saying we shouldn't, but let keep the focus on saving Bellevue.

Recent events like the 25,000 to FUMC are just some of the results of the way our church is run.

Let's discuss "How to save Bellevue"

Anonymous said...

Regarding Mt. 18, the need for a scriptural forum and regular business meetings:

Some have been calling for Mt. 18 to be followed since the beginning of these problems related to Mark Sharpe, Riad Saba, etc.

Others have said either that Mt. 18 had not been followed, did not apply, or did not apply to the pastor. But, no one is above the Word of God.

The quotation below comes from a time when there was a similar problem. Luther brought charges against the Pope; however, in Luther's day the Pope controlled any attempt to bring about a free, impartial forum to resolve the differences that existed. The Pope said that he was above the temporal law, or that his interpretation of the scripture was the true interpretation, or when any attempt was made to call a council the Pope claimed to be the only one with power to call a council.

Bellevue is in a similar mess. There may be legal matters that need to be dealt with. There are those saying that Mt. 18 is not the way to handle these problems. All that is happening seems to be the current leader(s) blocking attempts at a scriptural forum.

Luther believed that it was necessary for true believers to do whatever was in their power to see to it that such a scriptural, free, forum that would seek the truth be established.

Since the biblcal process was short-circuited by leadership, similar forums have popped up on the internet.

Still, we need Mt. 18 to be exercised. And we need regular, quarterly business meetings so that the membership does not remain voiceless. In my opinion as usual.


Martin Luther refers to Matthew 18

Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation
(1520)

The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.

First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.

Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.

Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...

Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.

.... The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . . If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.

Anonymous said...

new prospect,

you still floatin 'round out there?

Yes, and I always will be here.

--

swwt,

I've gone back for the past 10 days and looked at the posts from Ace & Hisservent.

Good for you, thank you for doing this.

They say nothing of substance. They are the author of confusion.

This, my friend, is wrong. Maybe to the people who are so into believe the trash going around, it confuses them because we may say stuff that goes against the flow here and they don't know who to believe.

All they can say is "everything is a lie" or anyone questioning the pastor is a sinning.

Wrong again, pilgrim. Where have I said that anyone questioning Gaines is sinning? I didn't - which is my point exactly.

I agree to not respond to this set of men who are all taking turns writing under the same name any longer.

Go ahead, become part of the problem, why won't you? I think this is the whole problem in reality, may people here are refusing to listen to the other side. They only want to hear negative stuff and God forbid anything positive is posted.

Anonymous said...

Tim,

You have some good insight along with Luther, but we don not need history lessons.

What is your plan to restore Bellevue?

You see, as long as you just "vent" that is just what SG wants us to do.

Anonymous said...

koragg,

Thank you for your posts...you have some nice posts + they are actually a good read for a change.

Anonymous said...

Every member that has questions, why not meet somewhere and get organized and only then go see the CC?

What if I talk with one of our member who is a Christian attorney and let him lead us?

Anonymous said...

My hair is black, my eyes are brown
Mommy, you'd love having me around

It's early yet, the month is one
Though you can;t see me yet, I've just begun

One month later, the month is two
I'm still but a part of you

Time is passing the month is three
I'm getting to be someone as you can see

Still so small that I don't have to hide
I'm just a little seed inside

You'll love me mommy, just wait and see
i'm going to make you proud of me

I've got a new home now, the month is seven
Mommy didn't want me, so now I'm in heaven

It's so beautiful, but now I'm gone
I have no memory to carry on

If I were still there now the month would be eight
But now I play at Heaven`s gate

I was murdered by my my Mommy`s hand
While I was too young to understand

Good-bye mommy, the month would be nine
if BELLEVUE hadn`t helped you to kill me, I would be just fine

Although I'm in heaven, I still have to cry
Because of Mommy and BELLEVUE`I had to die.

Anonymous said...

I'll make the call and get back on this blog after Thursday.

Anonymous said...

TimeforAction...

The "history lesson" was a response to the leadership who have condemned such forums at this... This forum is on the official "index" of prohibited literature of our time... There are quite a few interesting parallels that are instructive for action... If you follow what Luther was saying, he was calling on all believers to do what was necessary to bring about a free forum where the truth could be brought to light and reform could be the result. He was calling for this forum in light of the scriptures in Mt. 18 just as Mark Sharpe and others have.

In my opinion... as usual.

Anonymous said...

Steve Gaines and every Bellevue leader who took part in the $25000.00 donation to FUMC, I call on you publically to repent and restore the treasure house that you have robbed. I call on you to repent fo taking part in baby killings. I call on you to step down from your leadership positions and give Bellevue back her dignity.

Tim said...

truthhound,

I agree. Those responsible should resign, but I'll take it a step further. If they don't resign, then they should be removed.

Anonymous said...

Folks, again people are using my name. That above statement wasn't posted by myself..

Of course I do not think that is a great idea and if anybody is following my posts then they will realize that.

When it doubt, click on my profile and it will show you who the real Ace is.

Anonymous said...

truthhound,

ACE if you going to make this your personal playgroud the least you could do is quote posts correctly.

Again, that wasn't me. I assure you I always quote posts in context.

NASS please stop ACE from making this blog a bloggers garbage can!!!! PLEASE!

It is the people who are posers to be others than is making this blog a garbage can.

Anonymous said...

How can the leadership of Bellevue be removed?

I saw posts from legaleagle a few days ago and others ask that he/she leave because they were talking about getting a lawyer.

I am not against hiring a good Christian lawyer to help RESCUE Bellevue from the hireling and his band of hirelings.

Tim said...

truthhound,

It is not a Biblical approach to these problems to bring them before the courts. I would like to that also, but it is not the way that God would have it handled.

Anonymous said...

Repost:

NHisName said...
Bellevue Members Please do NOT move your membership just yet. If you need time to reflect on where God wants you maybe it would be good to worship somewhere else for a time BUT there is going to come a time when we will need your vote and if your membership is somewhere else you will not be able to help us.

To those of you who know some who are going elsewhere please ask them to pray diligently BEFORE moving their membership. That would just be playing into the leaderships hands and we would never get enough people to make a difference.

Only move your membership when you absolutely KNOW that God is telling you to do so.

I believe that our number is growing and that God is on our side but Satan is alive and well not only at Bellevue but here in Memphis as a whole. I perswonally talked with a man today who did not know any facts but after talking with him for over an hour he has really changed his mind and he will be talking with his wife and I know her too. When she sees the truth she will also be onboard.

We just need to talk with our friends who have their heads in the sand and let them know what is really happening.

Be careful what you say and who you say it to on this site because many non christians are reading these posts along with some of Bellevues leadership.

Also be careful not to let them know too much about what we are doing. The more information they have to more easily they will be able to fend it off.

8:44 PM, November 21, 2006

Anonymous said...

Tim, is there a plan to remove the leadership and the pastor?

Anonymous said...

is 25 a deacon or someone who has a plan or authority to do something?

Anonymous said...

GO Tim!

New BBC Open Forum said...

ANNOUNCEMENT

truthhound, allofgrace, tim, et al.,

We do indeed have another "ace" imposter. Y'all just responded to him. Please, before responding to another "ace" comment, check the profile, especially the number of profile views. As of this writing, "ace" has over 180 views.

NBBCOF

Tim said...

25+,

I offer what ever service I can be. You can get my e-mail from the NBBCOF administrator.

Please contact me.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the heads up on ACE but all the ACE`S and all the HIASERVANT`S are the all the same to me.

Tim said...

truthhound,

I saw 25+ comment after I posted and deleted it out.

If I do not receive an e-mail that leads me to believe that there is an organized effort to move forward then I will repost and ask for support in the endeavor.

Karen said...

Hi y'all,

Thanks for your prayers today (I had a health scare), but the dr. said everything is okay for now and I'll have a follow up in about a month. So again, thanks!

Karen

Karen said...

truth hound,

Not sure if this had been answered about restoring Dr. Whitmire to his postion at BBC, but I think he likes it at Germantown. He probably wouldn't want to come back.

Karen

Tim said...

karen,

glad to hear that your ok. I hadn't heard that you were having any problems.

Anonymous said...

Karen,

but the dr. said everything is okay for now and I'll have a follow up in about a month.

Hopefully we all won't be here in a month, but keep us updated, won't you?

New BBC Open Forum said...

truthhound,

You may not agree with the real "ace's" opinions, but he's entitled to them, just as you are to yours. The fact remains that you did just respond to a troll, not to the real "ace." This is an "open" forum in the respect that it is open to those with differing opinions as long as they remain civil and aren't simply trying to "clog the blog." If you don't want to engage "ace" in discussion, then don't. As long as he plays by the rules, he can continue to comment... as can you. We don't have to get personal about it.

Now, the many incarnations of "hisservant" are entirely different animals!

Thank you,

NBBCOF

Karen said...

ace,

Hopefully when this is all over, we'll all be good friends and can go out to eat or something after church - everyone's invited, but I ain't cooking! :)

Karen

Anonymous said...

NBBCOF,

Thank you for the post, it is much appreciated. I want to publicly thank you for all your help in getting rid of the imposters pretending to be others.

Most people here, I believe, would think it is funny + would allow that sort of thing to continue just to bash me and my name, but you have showed you aren't like everyone else. Thank you. You're doing a good job.

Anonymous said...

Karen,

Hopefully when this is all over, we'll all be good friends and can go out to eat or something after church - everyone's invited, but I ain't cooking! :)

If we go out, will you at least be paying? ;)

New BBC Open Forum said...

karen wrote:

"Hopefully when this is all over, we'll all be good friends and can go out to eat or something after church - everyone's invited, but I ain't cooking! :)"

Well, not everyone! Only the real "ace" is welcome. The imposter aces aren't invited -- then or now!

Anonymous said...

truthhound,

There is one thing that gets Steve Gaine's attention. There is one thing that gets Harry Smith's attention. There is one thing that gets Chuck Taylor's attention. There's one thing that gets the attention of the men that the pastor surrounds himself with.

The answer is money.

I think we should set up an escrow account at a local bank. We would need legal advice on the structure of non-profit escrows. Have all members deposit their tithes into that account each week.

I understand something similar happened at GBC and it was very effective.

Steve Gaines and his leadership team can play with numbers but they can't hide the actual receipts of the offerings. Since they live by numbers, how are they going to spin the decline in numbers. The last several weeks have the attendance way down. Just look in the pews at the 9:30 service. The parking lot seems to have a lot of spaces close by the building these days as well.

Unfortunately, people are voting with their feet. We need to encourage people not to move their membership.

Steve Gaines and Sam Shaw are very close and meet together on a regular basis. Sam Saw was at Bellevue recently meeting with Steve Gaines. I'm sure Sam is helping with the playbook.

Karen said...

ace,

I'll pay if we get a 10 pack of tacos @ Taco Bell!

Karen

Karen said...

swtt,

Don't forget the big push for Bible Fellowship attendance - what happened to the 7777 that was expected?

Also, when was the sermon series on the home supposed to end? I got married at that end of Sept and missed a couple Sundays after that - did I just miss the end of the series or did SG just stop the series?

Also, who's planning to go to the CC meeting on Sunday?

Tim said...

swtt,

When was Sam Shaw at Bellevue meeting with Dr. Gaines?

Tim said...

Folks,

I have a question that I would like to have answered.

Suppose, Haggard (the pastor from the church in Colorado) were to be at Bellevue to preach this Sunday. Or suppose that the pastor from FUMC were supposed to preach this Sunday.

Who would sit and listen to those sermons? Would you listen to either of those people preach from the pulpit of Bellevue? Think about it.

Now. These two have brought shame upon themselves and upon their church. Please explain to me how what our pastor had done to himself and our church is any different. How can we possibly sit and listen to this man stand behind the pulpit of Bellevue and preach?

Anonymous said...

Tim,
As recently as last month, he was seen on a Wednesday afternoon meeting with Steve Gaines. Sam Shaw was with some other men that were not recognized.
I'll get the details of the regular meetings at a local restaurant that have been taking place with Sam Shaw and Steve Gaines. I can't remember the exact details so I don't want to publish them until I get them.

On the FUMC donation, the argument that they feed the hungry and need extra money to take care of that won't hold water.
The Memphis Union Mission is very close to the burned out Methodist Church. I vote to give the Memphis Union Mission $25,000 tomorrow to help pick up the slack. I'll volunteer to go down and help the Memphis Union Mission myself. I've been down there before and won't mind going again.
I call on Phil Weatherwax to organize his community mission team to set the dates and times up for Bellevue volunteers to help feed the hungry and clothe the naked, and share the Gospel.
Amen and goodnight.

Anonymous said...

Real Ace,

Aint been on but a few minutes, but it aint me funnin withcha, so dont be thinkin bad things now... check the numbers if ya aint sure

All of grace,

if youre on, I read your stuff...better term than amil is gospel-mill,-- more fitting... that'a get you in more trouble with people than the doctrines of grace!

Anonymous said...

Mr. Gremillion,

If your out there, did you read my post from last night...I figured it was fair enough to see if my locale checked out...hopefully you can see I'm from bayouland

Anonymous said...

swtt,

As recently as last month, he was seen on a Wednesday afternoon meeting with Steve Gaines.

Who saw Gaines meeting with Shaw? Is this first hand information or something you heard from someone else?

Anonymous said...

new prospect,

Aint been on but a few minutes, but it aint me funnin withcha, so dont be thinkin bad things now... check the numbers if ya aint sure

No worries, I didn't think for a second that it was you when the fake ace came here... I felt you were sincere in your apology so I knew it had to be someone else.

michael wetzel said...

Brothers and sisters of Bellevue Baptist Church, I am a Christian attorney with a passion for ministering to churches in conflict.

I would be happy to discuss biblical dispute resolution options that are available. The GA Baptist Convention has referred a number of churches in conflict to me where, through prayer, mediation and (sometimes) arbitration, resolution has been achieved via Matt. 18:15-17; 5:23-25; 1 Cor. 6:1-8 Check my website at www.wmapeace.com. and particularly the article "The Church Under Seige."

You can send e-mail to: michael@wmapeace.com.

In His service
Michael Wetzel
Col. 3;15

allofgrace said...

new prospect,
I stay in enough trouble...LOL

Anonymous said...

posted: Tim, is there a plan to remove the leadership and the pastor?



REPLY: how sad. plan or no plan, it will not happen. many of us love Brother Steve and support him and the staff.

Anonymous said...

Tim: who is trying to force you or anyone else to come and here Brother Steve preach?

Anonymous said...

It is my sincere hope that a neutral conflict resolution specialist be contacted by the leaders of Bellevue SOON so that issues can be dealt with and the church can move forward.

The specialist would be able to provide a proper setting for the address of grievances and allow participation from everyone, including the deacons, staff, and church membership.

I think the problems cannot be solved effectively "in-house" at this point, but that is just my opinion.

Anonymous said...

All of grace,

How'd you come about that position? It aint like you gonna hear gospel mill being preached at a SB church?

Fact is, I cant talk 'bout that part of believing to anyone, or they'll wanna fight...just 'bout

Real Ace
Glad you know I was serious with my words yesterday

allofgrace said...

new prospect,
I've had to study on my own...I've learned a lot from reading stuff by Pink, Sproul...a lot of the Founders guys..but reading the Bible through in the chronology helped me more than anything.

Tim said...

Folks,

I would like to understand how anyone could sit thru a sermon from a man that has disgraced himself and our church.

New BBC Open Forum said...

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

I'm about to introduce a new "rule" for posting comments. From now on, everyone must make his or her profile viewable by others. Before you panic at the thought of revealing your personal information, if you'll look at most profiles, all you'll see is the number of profile views. There is no need to reveal any personal information. All that will show is your username and the number of times your profile has been viewed. No e-mail address or other information will show (unless you choose to do so). This is an attempt to keep up with the "imposter" problem we've had the last couple of days. Your cooperation will be appreciated. Comments by posters who continue to hide their profiles will be deleted.

NBBCOF

Anonymous said...

all of grace,

that's all I was ever taught, but I read Pink's renouncin of dispensationalism (man thats a long word) also; our preachers was from the sticks, but they was solid and smart as anything

I didn't know there was more ways to believe bout it till them guys started doing books and movies...and of course when I started watchin electric preachers

just lookin, yall gonna get somebody to come try to simmer things down?

Anonymous said...

nbbcof

guess then I better take my credit card #'s off

Anonymous said...

I have posted this and with no reply. that will not stop me from posting it again.

If we are Christians, we are slaves. we are bond-servants to Christ. we are to be dead people walking. we are to deny self and the flesh. we were bought with a GREAT price. our emotions, rights, thoughts etc etc etc are NOT ours.

Anonymous said...

mr. gremillion

hope you can read my post about La.
headin back that way within the week...still got friends down there; LORD be willing, might be hangin my hat down there again; if not, I reckon I could come back here...kinda big for me though; tried to use wal-mart for a landmark to get my directionals right, but yall got 'bout 100 of 'em; but if I stay in LA, I'll eat some craw-babies for you when the season comes

Anonymous said...

Tim: again who is trying to force you or anyone else to come and here Brother Steve preach?

New BBC Open Forum said...

hisservant-1 wrote:

"I have posted this and with no reply. that will not stop me from posting it again.

"If we are Christians, we are slaves. we are bond-servants to Christ. we are to be dead people walking. we are to deny self and the flesh. we were bought with a GREAT price. our emotions, rights, thoughts etc etc etc are NOT ours."


Yes, I think we've all seen you post that before. What exactly do you want us to say in the way of a reply? You're posting your emotions, thoughts, etc., etc., etc. Others are posting theirs. What makes your emotions, thoughts, etc., etc., etc. any more important than anyone else's? If "we" are guilty of expressing our emotions, thoughts, etc., etc., etc., then so are you. I guess I must be missing your point.

NASS

P.S. Thank you for revealing your profile.

Anonymous said...

HisServant-1 said...
If we are Christians, we are slaves. we are bond-servants to Christ. we are to be dead people walking. we are to deny self and the flesh

REPLY:

You might want to take your message to Pastor Gaines because anyone who makes at $400,000.00 to preach is most certainly not a dead person walking, has not deny theirself anything, and they have not died to their flesh.

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