Monday, November 06, 2006

Carol Pemberton Letter #2

On November 4th Carol Pemberton wrote a follow-up letter to her October 12th letter to the deacons.

What do you think about this one?

74 comments:

Tim said...

I wish that I knew this lady. She is full of grace and truth. She possesses wisdow that is only exceeded by that of Solomon and my father. I do not know if this kind spirited lady is 18 or 80, but if I live to be 100 I would never expect to achieve the level of wisdom that she exhibits.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Also, would God, who is Master and owner of the sheep, be pleased when the sheep are fleeced and a large amount of the wool is left in the shepherd’s tent, rather than forwarded to the Master to be distributed to many others in need throughout His Kingdom?"

And she has a sense of humor, too.

cjesusnme said...

If Dr. Gaines doesn't respond to this letter and hear our cries, I will be convinced that he doesn't love us (his entire flock) and only wants to shephard his picks.

Ms. Pemberton....God Bless you for your boldness in trying to bring healing to our church!

Dr. Gaines....there are many of us who feel hurt and confused. Please take the appropriate steps in healing your flock!

God Bless!

Lwood said...

Thank you Carol for putting in writing the words and thoughts of my family.I could never write a letter of this magnitude with such love and compassion. Our prayer is that the leadership of Bellevue will read it and understand the heart and soul of bellevue members that are hurting.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Oh my!! Thank you Ms. Pemberton. Oh that I might have the grace and wisdom that you possess. Thank you for putting in to such eloquent words what so many of us and our families wish that we could convey. I pray that Dr. Gaines would hear your pleas and begin the process of healing and reconciling his sheep. Blessings to you and your family. It is a privilege to call you my sister in Christ!

padroc said...

Thank You Carol Pemberton for writing and expressing so beautifully, almost in picture form, the essence and gravity of my concerns. Many are praying and learning to pray as never before in their lives. I will use your letter as a helpful guide so as to pray God's word for each of the topics of concern. I am at once both grieved over our circumstances and at the same time full of joy KNOWING that Almighty God is not meeting in emergency session, Jesus is Lord and His children, whom He knows by name, can bring every thought into the obedience of Christ and worship our God together in Spirit and Truth. AND we can in all things give thanks. Believing God, trusting in Jesus, making no promises or pledges or other presumptive statements, each one of us can pray to be a part of the solution and obey God's word in doing so. Praise be to God.

choice_is_yours said...

Time out for some REALLY good news.

Is anonymous blogging biblical or is it a sin?

Did you know that God has sent anonymous messengers from his very presence on high?

I propose to you that anonymous blogging is not a sin if it speaks the truth in love.

That's the same test that non-anonymous blogging must pass.


We already saw just a few days ago where an anonymous angel foretold the birth of John the Baptist. Only after being doubted did the angel shed his anonymity.

Today read where an angel approaches Mary to foretell the coming of Jesus.

The angel, comes, foretells, and leaves and never gives a name, even whem Mary says,

1:34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

The reason we know the angel's name is only because Luke (inspired by the Holy Spirit) includes the name in the text,

1:26 In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth,

Let's look again at this issue when Zacharia is allowed to speak again. He is the only one at that point in the sequence of events who knows Gabriel by name.

As far as Mary knew, the angel was anonymous but she had no doubt the angel was from God.

Luke's Good News for BBC

Luke 1:26-38 (King James Version)

26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

choice_is_yours said...

Notice that Gabriel punished Zacharia for doubting, but not Mary.

Why was the angel more strict with Zacharias?

I don't know the answer.

I could guess an answer.

Zacharias was standing inside God's temple as an ordained priest having been duly appointed to be inside the temple at that moment for the purpose of serving God.

For God to actually have a message for a priest while (surprise) inside God's temple really should not be a cause of doubt.

Zacharias had very little justification to doubt at that moment.

Mary on the other hand, was a Virgin, as she points out. She was also not a priest and not in a temple, not even in Jerusalem. Was she even in the lineage of priests... Zacharias was. Mary, had not been assigned to any particular religious service for the day in question in that "sixth month."

Also, since Zacharias's tongue had been stilled by Gabriel, she may have heard that Elizabeth was pregnant, but she could not have heard about the angel or Gabriel's name.

So perhaps the angel was not so strict on Mary for one of these several reasons?

I'm not really sure. Any thoughts?

Anonymous said...

The letter is gossip.

Disseminating it aids and abets the gossip.

Directing such opinions to Pastor Gaines in a private letter is one thing; broadcasting them on the Internet is another matter entirely. She wields Scripture verses like brickbats, tossing them at people with whom she disagres.

She labels such people as engaging in "the love of money" and having "erred from the faith." She compares Pastor Gaines' sermons to "vain words," and accuses the church's leadership of "fleecing" the flock.

When you approve of it, you approve of gossip, and reinforce the understanding of more and more people that what bills itself as "saving Bellevue" becomes more and more anti-Bellevue with each passing day.

--Mike

P.S.: Oh, and with regard to the attempt to defend tossing bombs, er, "speaking the truth in love" from anonymity? All of you who are angels go right ahead and keep posting anonymously; those of you who are human beings, however, should at least show the courage of your convictions by taking responsibility for your statements. As has been noted more than once, criticism from anonymity means nothing.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Scrolling on by...

NASS

MOM4 said...

And I am scrolling on by as well, seems some folks don't know the difference between truth and gossip.

Karen said...

Mrs. Pemberton,

I just love you! Your eloquent words muct illicit a response; any response.

Dr. Gaines, PLEASE help us! I've been a member since I was a child and I don't want to leave Bellevue.

Mike Bratton, I love you man, but I refuse to let you accuse me of being annonymous. My name is Karen Turk Marshall.

Love to you all,

Karen

ilovebbc said...

I'm puzzled as why so few of you have submitted questions to the Committee. I know you will reply that you don't trust them. However, like it or not, this is the plan that's been set forth by our spiritual authorities. Please ask them your questions, await their response. If you don't get a response or one that pleases you, then make your voices be heard by posting your questions and their response or lack of one but until you've allowed them the opportunity to answer your properly submitted questions, voicing your concerns on this blog is of no avail.

Anonymous said...

Mike Bratton, I love you man, but I refuse to let you accuse me of being annonymous. My name is Karen Turk Marshall.

Now, see, people? How hard is that?

Congrats on the nuptials, by the way--and please, please don't tell stories about how goofy I was in college.

--Mike

stillwaitingandwatching said...

So, I guess we can characterize Paul's letters to the Corinthian churches gossip as well? Hmmmm, wonder how the Corinthian churches felt about learning that the letters that Paul wrote to them were going to be put in the BIBLE for generations of people in the world to see and LEARN from?? Just a little thought.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Mike Bratton,

Your desire to want to know who people are is getting really old. You continuing to say, "whoever you are," and "criticism from anonymity means nothing," not to mention your "and I quote, thusly, and like so," is starting to make me insane. But, I am a kind person who doesn't like to see someone suffer (it is killing you not to know if "tim" is sitting next to you in the choir or not, isn't it?)so here I am. I am Beulah Land. I am a lifelong Bellevue member who is anything but "anti." Nice to "meet" you Mike. So, now that you know who I really am, are you pleased? Also, I am really getting tired of you, and others, quoting Dr. Rogers and using things he said against us. Before you, or anyone else, does this anymore, I implore you to ask Mrs. Rogers what SHE thinks. I am quite certain her opinion would be right in line, or close to, what Dr. Rogers would think.

Okay, now that we have my identity out in the open...whose next??? I can't wait to see who some of you are!

Just My Opinion said...

Mike Bratton said "and please, please don't tell stories about how goofy I was in college."

Mike, I didn't realize that you were still in college. LOL

Karen said...

The only goofy thing I'll tattle on Mike about was that we went to a sorority dance together once (Ok, technically it was a dinner because I went to Union University!) and he drove my manual shift car and didn't tell me he didn't know how to drive a manual shift car. Quite the experience!!

Ok, y'all, get off Mike and let's keep this discussion about Ms. Pemberton great letter to the Pastor.

I'm not scared of revealing my identity because I'm not scared of people or what they may thiink of me. I'm also convinced and convicted that something is wrong at Bellevue Baptist Church. I don't have enough money to make a dent in anyone's paycheck. I don't have fence for anyone to climb over; come knock on my door. I've Phil Weatherwax since I was little kid; I don't fear him.

I want my church back!!! I want this fighting to end and I want to know that we have a pastor that respects and loves everyone the same regardless of connection or bank account. I want to be fed by his sermons; I want to fellowship with other believers without giving some sort of "secret handshake" to see who's side they are on. Why is that so hard to understand and get to?

Karen said...

I've Phil Weatherwax since I was little kid; I don't fear him.

Make that "I've known Phil Weatherwax since I was little kid..."

Tim said...

Ok, Beulah Land ...
I can no longer hide behind the curtains..
I must reveal myself...

I am "Tim ... the tool man Taylor"!

Ed_T said...

Anybody notice there's been no mention of the attendance numbers during our high attendance campaign...or I've missed them?

That would be because we've been nowhere close to them according to a deacon with whom I've talked.

I guess that's actually good so we don't have to hear the "well, we met our high attendance goal of 7,777 and so everything must be right" argument.

I would like to hear Mr. Bratton's opinion on one matter: when the Pastor goes before a congregation of 4,000 and admits that he and others "stepped over an itty-bitty fence" and then puts his hand down to knee level to illustrate such a point, is it classified as deceitful, out-and-out lying or irrelevant when said fence is known to be 4-4.5 feet high?

If a pastor is not faithful in such a small matter of telling the unvarnished truth, why should we be expected to trust him in more significant areas?

As for the "credit card issue", which was so easily disposed of on Sunday night, if it was so easy to put that to rest in a 2-hour deacons' meeting and that's all there was too it, then why in the name of Heaven was it not dealt with long ago before any of this became public. I do believe there must have been Kool-aid in those communion cups Sunday night.

Whatever "benefit of the doubt" I was willing to give to Dr. Gaines evaporated once I learned he took his case and presented it before another church the night after the informational meeting on Sept. 24th.

I'm Ed Thompson, and I approve this message.

padroc said...

We are all so fascinating. Those of us whom God has called and who have by faith received God's gift of eternal life, ARE, no matter how far along in our maturity in Christ, some kind of "tool" God can use for His purposes.

Some of us see from one vantage point and some from another. Some write with sharp edged "carbide" words and some with soft edged "butter" words. Some more informed, some less. Some more or less self reliant and self absorbed. Some pampas and some reserved. Some wordy and some not. Some logical and some meandering in thought. Some reckless and some measured --- BUT, each an instrument of some sort which can be used of God for His purposes to work in the Body of Christ at large or in the life of an individual fellow pilgrim. Scrolling on by may be the wisest thing some should do if you realize that your temptation to sin would be too great. But God may suggest to you that His love is to be your love and that in Christ even the apparently abrasive folks among us are worthy of our love and prayers for whom God condescended and died. I love you Mike Bratton. Not because of any qualities you have or character you display but simply because God actually loves me and I am certainly one of His more unlovely children and whom ever God loves I will to love because He first loved me.

In the mean time you and I are viewing the same "accident" from two totally different vantage points with two totally different reports as to what happened and is the "scene" as we see it. The understandings and perceptions of the "finger” in no way are the understandings and perceptions of the "spleen" BUT we are both a part of the same body and both important to that body and who is it that does not love his own body.

I thank God for our useful and yet necessary differences. May Christ have preeminence.

Tim said...

stillwaitingandwatching,

Or perhaps, I should address you as Mrs. Land.

I believe that your husband and I went to the same high school. He was a year or two behind me. He would certainly remember Tim however (small school and only a handful of Tim's there). He will say, "Can't be?", then read my comments and say, "Well, sure enough, thats him, thats the Tim that I knew."

Of course I could be wrong, but don't think that I am. God Bless You and your family.

Anonymous said...

padroc,

Well said.

RM said...

One of my favorite pasttimes is reading this blog. Now you have progressed to equating disgruntled church members with angels from the Lord, hoping that God will speak to Dr. Gaines instead of yourself, and still not willing to sign your real name. Come on guys, sign your name and own up to what you write.

choice_is_yours said...

Brother Mike,

I'll be honest, your name has been on my mind lately.

Mike, please continue to read and comment on Luke.

Please keep this reading honest. Today's text was easy to comment on because several people here blog anonymously. The Bible is a two edged sword though. Any one of us may turn the page and find a verse that condemns us. If we have integrity we won't cover up the difficult verses and quickly move to more pleasant parts.

So please, walk with us brother. Gently make corrections when you see sin. And be gentle when your sin is lovingly noted.

Nobody minds your admonishments. They are always very insightful. >>>Just please deliver them with a wee bit more gentleness. Just use more honey and less vineagr.

And when we can be still and stop pointing fingers at each other we might hear that quiet prompting of our Lord becoming ever more clear as to how he wants us to serve him in love and truth.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Your admiring brother in a dark time,
Choice

I love my church said...

Truth Hunter said...
"Excellent point praying4ewe.

For what it's worth, the word
is the deacons saw NOTHING Sunday. Chip Freeman went over a powerpoint summary of credit card transactions. They did NOT examine credit card statements.

Does this square with what was said Sunday night?"


What does anyone know about this? Can anyone confirm what Truth Hunter was told?

If they did not examine the credit card statements, we were lied to Sunday night.

RM said...

Tim,

Thanks for the note. My name is Randy McDonald and my blog is: www.sbobserver.blogspot.com

Feel free to email me personally and I will give you my cell number and you can call me and we can talk.

It would be interesting and informative to say the least.

deceivedagain said...

Bellevue has many cards out there and the deacons were not shown all of the bills. In fact, only after being confronted did the church acknowledge that Dr. Gaines has more than one Bellevue credit card. After allowing the church to be drug through the mud for the past 6 months and now to be willing to show the world one set of bills, it sure doesn't smell good. What else is one to think? If there wasn't anything to hide, they should have been open and transparent 6 months ago. The leadership is to blame for all of this.

I love my church said...

Hey Deceived,

Truth Hunter says there weren't shown any bills at all.

Karen said...

From Derrick Calcotte's email to me, regarding the credit card bills:

Karen,

I can tell you with confidence, that the credit card issue has been laid to rest beyond any question. We reviewed every single charge on every single statement going back to the very beginning. Each charge was examined and found to be 100% legitimate.

There were allegations that the pastor made personal charges on the card. This has been proven untrue beyond a shadow of a doubt.

There were allegations that there was some other credit card that had the personal charges on it. This has been proven false as well. The pastor does have an additional card (a Master Card, in case he is somewhere that doesn't take AmEx) but in the lifetime of that card there has been on one charge on it. It was a legitimate charge and it was under $10.

Sister Karen, I am heartbroken. It kills me that we have subjected our pastor to this insane degree of scrutiny, especially since the facts show exactly what we've been told time and time again there is nothing wrong.

Those who have falsely slandered our pastor over this credit card issue, who have gossiped, who have murmured about it need to repent before our Lord and apologize publicly. It is terrible that such damage has been done to his reputation over this issue of credit cards, when all allegations are totally without merit.

Thanks for checking in. Please help get the word out on the truth. If there is a question on this issue that you do not feel I've answered fully, please, please, please follow up and let me clarify it. There is nothing at all questionable there, and I want you to be completely reassured.

In His service and yours,

Derrick Calcote


Derrick, you said to get the word out so I assume you meant it's okay to pass your email along. Hope you don't get mad about it being posted here.

Did the deacons see a PowerPoint presentation prepared by Chip Freeman or did they examine actual credit card bills from American Express and MasterCard?

I love my church said...

RM (Dr. McDonald) should have little credibility here. For days he has excoriated posters to the forum for making their views public. All the while on his own blog he demeans those within SBC institutions and the SBC hierarchy with whom he disagrees. For example, read his November 4th post at http://www.sbobserver.blogspot.com.

I quote his first paragraph thusly and like so (a little Bratton lingo for ya):
"I just finished reading Jim Richards' comments concerning people who practice speaking in tongues and partaking of alcoholic beverages and find them amazing--but quite typical of his ilk! Before I comment on this ridiculous stance I want to take you back a little in our history—"

Looks to me like he is debating a church matter in public, what does it look like to you? Does that sound like a pastor full of love? You can read more of his post and his blog for further examples.

We are one body of Christ and I see little difference between airing denominational dirty laundry and the dirty laundry of an autonomous SBC congregation. Both are regrettable, but that is how we communicate in 2006. Until RM takes down his blog, I won’t listen to his views on the Bellevue conflict. He uses it to publicly call out Southern Baptists. Shouldn’t he handle his disagreements privately instead of on the internet for the entire world to see?

RM FYI: I’ve been following your blog for several weeks. I agree with your November the 4th post. You are right on target about that and probably most things. Some will not be happy until they divide the denomination again. You might be interested to know that Dr. Gaines wants us to care about the BF&M. He quotes from it often and has us read it out loud. He is among those pulling the noose tighter.

Tim said...

rm,

Well..Hiddy-Ho neighbor. Good to meet you Mr. McDonald. Tim..the tool man Taylor here. What and when I choose to reveal anything about myself is my own business, is it not.

I did take a little trip over to your blog, but my concerns at this moment are with Bellevue and things that are of concern there.

Now, concerning the credit card issue. This is something that I have moved past. I would like to hear first hand from some (more than just one) of the deacons that were actually there, but it was a small concern to begin with and I believe that most involved were aware of that.

I am concerned about the fact that the reasons for not preaching on Wednesdays was far from truthful. I have been surprised that there seems to be no one else seems to be concerned about that.

Pat said...

God bless this lady MS. Pemberton, Mark Sharpe, Richard Emerson, Terry Brimhall, Ted Minor, Roger Webb and other deacons and God bless Bellevue and America..As these deacons and others seek reconciliation through truth!!

DeaconSolider said...

Derrick
I am just now scanning this blog and you, my dear brother are all over it. I remind you again, you and Rob do not speak for the deacon body. I too am a deacon and let's admit the deacons still have many questions. Not just about credit cards but about many things. One question that I know was submitted and not even mentioned was the statement of "money the pastor owed to Gardendal." I hope it's not true but right now I just dont know

I must take a look at everything before I cast my vote. People and many of our deacon brothers are hurting and so we must not move on yet. this too will pass..

Karen said...

tim,

I haven't forgotten about the other issues either. I don't care if Dr. Gaines doesn't preach on Wednesday nights. I think if he's having "family time", that time should be spent in church. He knows as a Baptist preacher that the main days to be in church are Sunday morning and evening and Wednesday night. The fact that he's scheduled to preach at all these other engagements on Wednesdays flies in the face of the truth. Ms. Pemberton's letter hits all the issues I'm concerned with and I hope she gets a response.

PS: Ed Thompson, you crack me up!

Karen said...

deaconsoldier,

I posted Derrick's email to me here because, after reading some other deacon responses to the Gremillion's email, I felt his was the most eloquent and sweetest spirited one and I sought him out. Derrick's been nothing but sweet and kind in his responses to me (I can't speak about anyone else's exchanges with him). Just wanted to make that clear.

Much love, Karen

RM said...

I Love My Church,

Thanks for reading the blog. Sorry that you can't see the difference between affairs and monetary fraud and theft in a convention and your differences in Bellevue. Maybe in time you will learn.

Bin Wonderin said...

How hard is it to just open up the credit card reciepts to Mark Sharpe so we can just get this over with.

Either the staff has used them for personal reasons or they have not. The innocent do not fear an inspection, the guilty do.

The innocent reveal where all "extra" money from a trip to Turkey goes. The guilty brush it off with a comment that they will just give away extra tickets to some worthy people. Quit messing around and just show the paper trail for crying out loud.

A power point presentation instead of just a list of what was spent and where it was spent is not what we need.

Just get on with it. How hard is that?

I love my church said...

RM,

Don't speak down to me, sir. I have a doctorate as well, so I am less than impressed

We have concerns over monetary fraud at Bellevue too, but you should know that since you are reading the blog. We are also concerned our pastor stood in the pulpit and lied to us.

You don't know all the facts about this conflict. There are many things you need to learn before interjecting yourself in our church conflict. Maybe in time you will learn the truth.

RM said...

I Love My Church,

When you choose to air your dirty laundry online with a blog you leave yourself wide open to anyone reading it and commenting on it. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

If you have a doctorate, then you should know how to handle your situation Biblically and not be parading this dirt all over the universe. You guys should be ashamed.

I had the privilege of working personally with Adrian and I can assure you that he would be ashamed of your mess.

I love my church said...

RM,

Your ugly attitude has been exposed, Dr. McDonald. I know all I need to know about you, sir.

You see yourself as doing the Lord's work to save the SBC, so the ends justify the means, at least for you. To fight that fight, you attack those you disagree with publicly via the internet. Do you think the world understands the difference between a Southern Baptist pastor attacking other Souther Baptists and what we are doing on this blog? I think not. In both situations Southern Baptists are shooting at Southern Baptists. You have adopted an elitist attitude that has convinced you that you are fighting the good fight for the convention, so even though you publish your thoughts for the world to see, it had to be done. Likewise, we believe this struggle in our congregation has to be done.

Do the members of your church know you are interferring with our church? Do they know their pastor has defamed members of our church on his blog as well as this one? Would they be embarrassed by your conduct?

To be honest, I'm not bothered by your blog and I agree with much of what you write. I am only pointing out the hypocrisy of your position.

I can indeed take it. Nothing you could possibly say bothers me. I'm sure you feel the same way.

I won't respond to you further. I will be praying the Lord uses your blog as I see Him beginning to use this one.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

rm said:

"I had the privilege of working personally with Adrian and I can assure you that he would be ashamed of your mess."

Really? Well, since DR. Rogers cannot speak for himself, have you personally spoken with Mrs. Rogers and see what she would think? As an aside, anyone in the Bellevue family ever hear of anyone else refer to Dr. Rogers as "Adrian" besides very close friends, Jim Whitmire or Mrs. Rogers? Since, RM, you are neither Jim Whitmire or Mrs. Rogers, you must be a very close friend of Dr. Rogers and wouldn't hesitate to actually speak with Mrs. Rogers and see what she actually thinks before you come and profess to know what someone, who cannot voice their opinion, actually does.

Can we please leave out what we THINK Dr. Rogers would do if he were still alive? None of us has an inkling of a clue, and should not profess to know.

RM said...

Must have touched a nerve on some of you... I was surfing through the channels tonight and actually saw Adrian preaching! He preaching on the "root of bitterness". I would challenge each one of you to buy that cd and listen to it. Then I think you'll know EXACTLY what he thinks of what you are doing.

By the way, I'm not interfering in your church. I'm just watching the fiasco you have created.

Diana Hart said...

I'm not even sure I heard Jim Whitmire call him "Adrian" or at least not often and rm - I think we'd all appreciate it if you referred to him as Dr. Rogers if you must continually bring him up. I saw his sermon on bitterness and thought it was wonderful.

Since this is supposed to be a thread on the Pemberton letter, I would like to say how much I admire her for her candor.

Diana Hart

New BBC Open Forum said...

rm wrote:

"By the way, I'm not interfering in your church. I'm just watching the fiasco you have created."

Uh... in that case, would you mind just being a "silent" observer? Because you really aren't contributing anything worthwhile to the discussion.

This man's a "pastor/counselor" and a "good Baptist boy." What's the world coming to?

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Okay, so....back to the issue....THANK YOU Ms. Pemberton for your letter. Please let us know if you recieve any response.

Tim said...

rm,

This fiasco was created by the leadership of Bellevue. I believe that they were given amble opportunity to resolve these problems and refused. This became the next step in an effort to keep concerned members informed.

Granted, every post that you see on this blog has not been as it should be, but we are trying to resolve the issues of our church by the only means that was left to us.

I can not even begin to tell you how heart broken I am over every thing that has transpired.

I remained quite for months...months, hoping that there would be a resolve, but it did not come.

I am reminded of a statement that I once heard. "All that evil needs to suceed, is for good men to do nothing." Silence in not an option, when the sanctity and integrity of our church hangs in the balance. Am I saying that I am opposed to evil?...absolutely. Am I saying that I have all the answers?...absolutely not. I do not even possess all of the questions, but there are questions that I feel need to be answered truthfully and completely. Am I saying that the leadership of Bellevue is evil?..absolutely not...neither am I saying that the gentlemen behind savingbellevue are evil..

Someone is either severly misled and misdirected or has stepped over the line, however, and I want to keep the wood on the fire, and the fire hot, until the gold has been refined.

I have never seen a time in my life when the truth seemed to be so difficult to find. Without meaning to be offensive to you, sir, the outside sources have served very little in the process, because they possess very little knowledge concerning this situation.

I can not speak for all that have been involved in this blog, but I would have dearly loved to have seen this contained withing the walls of our church. It should have been possible, but long past the time that the church should have been brought into a business meeting, we were called to an "informational" meeting. The focus of which was to present only the information that was beneficial to the leadership.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Thank you, Tim. Well put.

And now, to return to the topic at hand... thank you, Ms. Pemberton, for taking a stand for truth. We could use a lot more of you!

NASS

Tim said...

Absolutely!
Sorry for the runaway comments.


Mrs. Pemberton, you have been incredibly bold in the face of adversity as well. You will be in my prayers daily over the next several weeks.

choice_is_yours said...

To everyone reading this thread, "Carol Pemberton Letter #2" including,

Tim
NBBCOF
cjesusnme
Lwood
stillwaitingandwatching
padroc
Mike Bratton
MOM4
praying4ewe
Karen
ilovebbc
Just Mt Opinion
xd9x19
Andrew
RM
I love my church
deceivedagain
Pat
DeaconSoldier
Bin Wonderin
Fedupwiththis
Daina Hart


I hope all of you have a glorious day today. If you think this situation at BBC is a big test of faith for you, I'm asking you not to forget the mother of our Lord, Mary. Keep that comparison with you. I doubt any of us, including Dr. Gaines or Mark Sharpe, have ever had (or will ever have) a test of faith as overwhelming as Mary's. Please point this out to your friends and family tonite at church.

And yet God was doing a mighty work in the life a worthy person, Mary, then as he is doing now with all of us (if we will just keep walking with Him one day at a time).

Today's text from Luke is occurring Just after Mary found out she would be facing this difficult test of faith.

It's the beginning of the Christmas story we've heard every year since childhood. Mary:
was engaged
was with child
had low income
had a big secret
had a great promise from God


The angel did NOT say that it would be easy for her to explain her situation to anyone. At this point Mary would soon find out that even her fiance did not yet know she was pregnant. The angel did not say whether she would lose her fiance. The angel did not say whether her parents would disown her. The angel did not say whether she would be "run out of town on a rail," although her life was guaranteed for the next nine months. She would not be stoned to death on the false accusation of sexual immorality. Of course any proper trial would confirm that she was still pristine. But you think BBC suffers from rumors, just imagine what Mary was up against.

The only name Mary was given by the angel was that of Elizabeth, her relative, who was pointed out to be the recipient of miracle herself.

Who could possibly understand Mary's situation? Mary apparently hoped that Elizabeth, a priest's wife, might understand because we see Mary head off with little delay for Judea.

Judea is not "across the street" from Nazareth.

I'm not sure if she walked, or if she had an animal to ride, but it takes "more than a few minutes" to get to Judea from Nazareth. This was before cars, trains, and airplanes.

I'm not real sure how safe it was for a female to travel alone. But if she traveled in a group, they would ask questions that she didn't want to talk about. But she was promised her life because the angel said she would give birth. Mary perhaps thought that meant it would not be dangerous to travel so far. Besides, the angel was the one that put thoughts of elizabeth in her mind.

Did she plan to be gone from Nazareth for three months? Did she leave a note for her fiance or her parents? Did she send a "post card" later?


Luke 1:39-56 (King James Version)

39And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

40And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

45And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

46And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

50And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

51He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

52He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

53He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

54He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

55As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

56And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.

Luke's Good News for Bellevue

choice_is_yours said...

Just My Opinion,

Sorry I misspelled your name.

Sincerely,
Choice

LibertyInChrist said...

I must give Carol my highest commendation. How often I have discovered that it is an elder woman in the faith which has backbone to stand up and oppose spiritual abuse in the church...if only more men would step up to the plate.

In this regard, I invite you to consider the following commentary which addresses many of Carol's concerns.


I wanted to both inform you and invite you to read James Sundquist's recent commentary entitled:

PURPOSE-DRIVEN TENNESSEE BAPTIST CONVENTION AT BELLEVUE BAPTIST: RICK WARREN COLLABORATORS

&

RESPONSE TO BELLEVUE BAPIST CHURCH DEACON DERRICK CALCOTE'S CHARGES OF SLANDER

The link to the post is on the Purpose-Driven thread at:
http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2006/10/purpose-driven.html
Scroll down to November 8 post, but the article is dated November 6, 2006.

Pat said...

we need a new thread again at the top for "open discussion"

New BBC Open Forum said...

Pat,

I was just thinking the same thing. Thanks.

BellevueFoundationHelp said...

Needing Answers,

Why did the Bellevue Foundation give Evangelical Christian School $523,425

Anonymous said...

You can check out the Bellevue.org web site. Go to ministries and then Bellevue Foundation.

Call the foundation tomorrow and I'm quite sure they will be more than able and willing to answer all your questions.

The basics are that people make designated gifts and the foundation passes the money on to the organization that is specified by the donor.

Hope this helps.

*

phil413 said...

Bellevuefoundationhelp:

If in fact that the amount given is true, it would be very interesting to reach the source of the approval. That number is unbelievable when you take into consideration that the college ministry at Bellevue had been cut to $25,000 before Rob Mullins left (or forced out, depending on who you talk to).
David Matlock

deceivedagain said...

Why would anyone need to use the Bellevue Foundation as a "pass-thru" to donate? ECS is a non-profit organization. If someone is giving for tax reasons, why not give it directly to ECS?

BellevueFoundationHelp said...

TO Andrew:

Why for the last 3 years has the Bellevue Foundation given current Deacons David Hamilton and Wayne Vander Steeg organization almost $600,00.00 ?

Can we get an account of how these men spent this money?

Who is the head of the Bellevue Foundation??

ilovebbc said...

To answer you questions about the Bellevue Foundation, please call Bob Dawkins, the head of the Bellevue Foundation at their office at (901) 347-5480. He's been a Bellevue member since Dr. Pollard days - perhaps even Dr. Lee. If you don't want to call their office, you can submit a question to them on their link on the the bellevue.org web site.

BellevueFoundationHelp said...

To: lovebbc

There are a LOT of people wondering about the foundation now.

Consider this a question for them on this blog that you are visiting. I am told many of the BBC Foundation board member read this blog. Please let them answer here.

ilovebbc said...

bellevuefoundationhelp,

Why not call the Foundation office and ask them directly?

Then you can come back here and report their answers. It would just seem a faster, more sure way to get your questions answered to me, rather than to just keep posting questions on here hoping that some Foundation Board member is reading it and will answer.

deceivedagain said...

I would caution everyone about questioning the Bellevue Foundataion. I personally know Bob Dawkins to be a Godly man with conviction for doing the right thing. If you want to ask questions, I would agree the place to ask is with the foundation itself. You can get a list of the board of directors and ask these men and women about the decisions. I believe every penny that is spent is discussed by the board of directors and voted on by them. You may find out that some of the folks on the board are some of the same names you see quite often on important committees here at Bellevue. Perhaps they are the ones who should be questioned. Just my thoughts to chew on today.

Pat said...

As long as we are ask good questions about our non profit.

Why does the president of "ECS"
Evangelical Christian School, who is a deacon at Bellevue and former Chairman of the Deacon Board, paid almost $200,000.00 a year from "ECS" ?

oldtimer said...

I think those are good questions for the foundation and most of those men are friends of mine. I will also say those men at the BBC Foundation are Godly men and I haven't read on this blog anyone say any different.

Everyone remember, this is a blog, this is what happens on a blog. This is exactly what happened on the Southern Baptist Covention's Blog, it's ok.

This is where we want both facts and opinions from everyone. Relax..

Now here's my question:

Why does the Athletic Director at "ECS" paid more than "one" of the principals at "ECS"? I know it total of over $80,000.00???

I know, I was there..

ilovebbc said...

Pat, if you like, you can direct your question about ECS directly to ECS at 901-754-7217, Office Hours 7:40 a.m. to 2:40 p.m. Wouldn't it be better to go directly to the source, rather than pose the question a wide open forum where you might get a million different answers from no one with firsthand knowledge?

choice_is_yours said...

Luke's Good News for Bellevue


Luke 1:57-80 (King James Version)

57Now Elisabeth's full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth a son.

58And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

59And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child; and they called him Zacharias, after the name of his father.

60And his mother answered and said, Not so; but he shall be called John.

61And they said unto her, There is none of thy kindred that is called by this name.

62And they made signs to his father, how he would have him called.

63And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all.

64And his mouth was opened immediately, and his tongue loosed, and he spake, and praised God.

65And fear came on all that dwelt round about them: and all these sayings were noised abroad throughout all the hill country of Judaea.

66And all they that heard them laid them up in their hearts, saying, What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him.

67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

80And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.

Truth Hunter said...

I love BBC,

I love the church too. However, you trust our leaders while many of us do not. For weeks you have said "ask the committee" and now it is "ask the foundation." Are you on one of the committees or as you in leadership?

Some of us feel it is important to ask the questions HERE in hopes those with authority and a backbone will investigate. I am also in contact with men working behind the scenes. Trust me, the deacons are still not unified.

I am sure your mantra will continue, so will this forum and the questions. This forum is an absolute necessity if we hope to get the truth about what has been going on in our name. If New BBC Open Forum shuts down, I will start another forum or message board. I will raise money to promote the site. We can place signs throughout the city and we can run Google ads on other Christian sites. We need the truth and we are not getting it. Maybe it is time to crank up the heat. We need to educate the whole church on what the questions are and why they are being asked. Many are willing to believe whatever someone in a suit and tie tells them. NOT ME!

I contacted Chuck Taylor weeks ago and am still waiting for a response. They are avoiding the tough questions. If the deacons are naive enough to accept a PowerPoint presentation as evidence of anything, we are in serious trouble. If the deacon won't take charge, the church members have to. Bellevue is bigger than any one man, or small group of men. I'm not in the mood to accept any more delays, half-truths, and non-answers. Something dramatic must be done now.

Please don't interpret this as an attack on you. I understand your desire to see this stay in house. I wish it could be handled that way. I fear the truth is being buried before our eyes.

Anonymous said...

truth hunter said... Something dramatic must be done now.

What? Something like a "Showdown"?

Please, define your terms.

--Mike

choice_is_yours said...

Well, I said we'd look again at the issue of anonymous messengers from on High when we got to the point where Zechariah could speak.

Some of you probably think I am quite partisan and biased because of what I have said on this topic.

Let me retreat a bit and give you some context & motivation for my analysis of angels in Luke.

My motivation is the following. Non-Christians occasionally ask me about the origin of our religion; sometimes they ask me about the Christmas story. They will sometimes compare my response to how their religion started.

Specifically, Gabriel is claimed to have brought messages to people in at least one other religion in their origin story. Gabriel is said by Muslims to have brought the first verse of their scriptures to Mohammad. This was called the "Night of Power." There is some association with Ramadan. So let's see what happens here in Luke with Gabriel and the Christmas story. This might be useful if you try to witness to a Muslim.

By the way, in the election results yesterday, I saw that for the first time, we now have a Muslim who will be seated in Congress.

As you recall, Gabriel gave his name to Zechariah before muting him until John's birth. Zechariah lived in Judea. And you recall Mary had encountered Gabriel but it was anonymously. Mary was in Nazareth and it was the sixth month of Elizabeth's pregnancy, as Gabriel told her.

For the last 3 months of Elizabeth's pregnancy, Mary lived in Judea with Elizabeth and Zechariah.

Soon after Mary leaves, Elizabeth's baby was born. Eight days later Elizabeth wanted to name him John, and Zechariah confirms the name then was able to speak.

So Zechariah then was able to say the name, "Gabriel," but Mary was already gone.

The text does say that everyone in Judea heard what happened, probably including Gabriel's name. However Judea is over 100 miles from Nazareth.

Apparently, Mary still didn't know Gabriel's name.

I'm sure she finds out eventually, but it has to be after this point. It doesn't matter if she ever found out the name of the anonymous angel was, "Gabriel."

The point is that our Lord Jesus Christ's birth was prophesied to Mary by an anonymous angel; although we know Gabriel's name, she accepted the message as true and from God. And Gabriel was in fact, a good angel, unlike Satan. So Mary had discernment.

And Gabriel was not in sin by delivering the message anonymously. Gabriel was not in fear. Gabriel was not "hiding a skeleton in the closet."

Perhaps it was Mary's job to evaluate the angel's information on her own.

She got her confirmation when Elizabeth's unborn son, John, lept in her womb, and the Holy Spirit spoke to Mary through Elizabeth.

Mary found out that the anonymous angel had told the truth in that moment because there was no other way for Elizabeth to know Mary was pregnant at that point. Possibly even Mary herself had not even been able to detect any biological change in her own body that early on.

But this was the first day of a three month stay, and Mary didn't find out the name of the angel. The name didn't matter.

Possibly, Mary did not automatically believe the angel, and possibly she did not automatically disbelieve the angel. She just investigated what she was told by traveling all the way to Judea.

Mary is honored in scripture for her conduct and character.

This makes four (!) first century non-Christian mortals who set a high standard for the rest of us.

So maybe sometime I will get a chance to compare to Islam's appearance of Gabriel. I'll refer us to this passage at that time.

Diana Hart said...

Amen Truth Hunter!

Diana

cjesusnme said...

Truth Hunter....

We are behind you and AMEN to your statement.

Anonymous said...

"truth" hunter,

so where does it stop? where do you draw the line? do you really think that that you justify the way things are being done?

what do you want to accomplish? and do not answer the "truth". that is getting a bit old honestly. you can get any questioned answered to want answered.

there is NO excuse for this blog and others, NONE.