Thursday, November 16, 2006

Yet Another New Deacon Loyalty Pledge Thread

With 400 comments in a little over 48 hours, the last deacon loyalty pledge thread was getting too long and needed to be begun anew. So here's the latest thread.

Remember there are other threads with topics more appropriate for some of the comments that were left in the previous thread.

And please, while it shouldn't be necessary to repeat this, try to be civil and respectful in your comments.

69 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ezekiel,

My apologies, but I have to admit that I've become a little slow in my old age. Could you explain to me your quotes from Ez. 34 and Rev. 20 in the previous thread?

Looking forward to learning from you,
SR

Derrick Calcote said...

As an FYI, the deacon body will not be bringing the aforementioned motion to the congregation at this time.

It appears the our Lord is doing a mighty work and many who are meeting with the communications committee and various deacons are being greatly encouraged.

In a prayerful and humble spirit we will continue work as ministers of reconciliation.

Hopefully this will come as welcome news to some who had issues with the wording of the motion and/or the timing of this public show of support.

In His service and yours,

Derrick Calcote
dcalcote@msn.com

New BBC Open Forum said...

Thank you for the update, Derrick. That is welcome news.

NASS

Truth Hunter said...

Thank you Deacon Calcote. I appreciate the report and the wise decision.

Since I began my investigation I cannot agree with your position. However, I have taken note of your gentle spirit. You are to be commended for that.

Derrick Calcote said...

NASS,

I am pleased to see you have received this in the spirit in which it was intended.

For there to be reconciliation, all parties must want it.

-Derrick

stillwaitingandwatching said...

That is, indeed, wonderful news. Thank you for sharing that Derrick.

Anonymous said...

To date, a litlle over 80 active deacons (less than half) have signed the pledge. It might be presented at a later date if more support for the pledge can be won.

Anonymous said...

headoutofthesand said...
Mike said:

When warning people away from counterproductive behavior becomes sinful, whoever you are, you be sure and let me know.

Gee, Mike, thanks for all you've done! We all need a self-appointed and self-righteous Overseer of All to let everyone know when they are right or wrong.


Hate-laden, hyperbolic reply? Check.

Attack the individual, not the issue? Check.

By the way, since you are the self-designated purveyor of Truth,

By all means, quote me on that one, whoever you are. Where have I designated myself much of anything at all?

I'm curious--did God speak to you directly or do you have Scripture to back up your Divine Appointment because I've noticed you always use your words instead of God's when you post.

"Always"? Then your perception is something other than all-inclusive, whoever you are. But, hey, if I reference Scripture, some people want to attack me for it; it only makes sense that some from the same group would attack me for mistakenly insisting I never reference Scripture.

I can't help but wonder, though--what are your plans for Sunday morning?

--Mike

ezekiel said...

sr...

HEB 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The Holy Spirit is a much greater teacher than this sinful man.

Anonymous said...

Derrick Calcote said...
As an FYI, the deacon body will not be bringing the aforementioned motion to the congregation at this time.

It appears the our Lord is doing a mighty work and many who are meeting with the communications committee and various deacons are being greatly encouraged.

In a prayerful and humble spirit we will continue work as ministers of reconciliation.

Hopefully this will come as welcome news to some who had issues with the wording of the motion and/or the timing of this public show of support.

In His service and yours,

Derrick Calcote
dcalcote@msn.com


Interesting turn of events--thanks for sharing, Derrick.

So, is the "Showdown" still on?

--Mike

Derrick Calcote said...

While I can't speak to the number of deacons who have taken the time to stop by the church, find the motion and sign it, I will point out the motion was passed unanimously by all present.

(Although I've heard someone claiming to be a deacon abstained from voting yea or nay, but at minimum there were no nay votes.)

And the vast majority of deacons were present at the vote.

If/when this is brought before the church, I'd guess the language would be tweaked somewhat to make our intent more clear. The current wording has not been interpreted the way in which it was meant.

Derrick Calcote said...

And just an update on the mighty harvest last Sunday.

I had mentioned there had been over 20 decisions made in the 11:00 service. That number was intentionally conservative. I just heard from a friend on staff that the number for both services was 44!

To God be the Glory!

In His service and yours,

Derrick Calcote
dcalcote@msn.com

allofgrace said...

Mike,
I don't think there was ever going to be a "showdown"...except for maybe tim's suggestion for water pistols at 20 paces..which imho...was a fun idea...perhaps someone at savingbellevue.com? That's the only place I'm aware of the term "showdown" being used.

Tim said...

Thank You very much. I applaud the sense of this decision.

Tim said...

I was actually planning on tricking Mike into using a water pistol and imploying my super soaker.

Tim said...

I hesitate to say it but I was considering using holy water.

Tim said...

Derrick,

That is more wonderful news! Thanks for the update!

cjesusnme said...

Tim,

You are having way too much fun with this aren't you? Well, we all enjoy the laughs you provide us all with!

Derrick,

Thanks for the report!

Goodnight and God Bless!

ezekiel said...

Derrick Calcote...

Praise God for the 44!!!!

The credit belongs to the Holy Spirit for those saved. Quit thumping your chest.

You and the other deacons along with the administration are responsible for those that have left. What are you doing to get them back?

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Deacon Calcote,

Since you are around tonight....any update on the Love Offering? I would like to know attendance numbers and total of funds raised/pledged. I would have posted this on the Love Offering thread, but there appears to not be much going on over there and I didn't want this to get lost.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

The Love Offering was 1.3 million...500K in cash and 800K in pledges...the lowest amount since the late 80s

Tim said...

ezekiel,

It appears that the wheels that grind fine, grind slow. But indeed it does seem that the wheels are turning. We can't quite expect everything at once. I do believe that we have had progress for the past two days and am hopeful that this trend will continue. I do share your concern however there is still much work to be done.

ezekiel said...

Tim...

Agreed.........I hear them bleating in the woods.

Anonymous said...

At the risk of sounding ungrateful for those who made a decision for Christ (which I most certainly am not), I can only imagine what several frequent posters would have had to say about about Derrick's quote that "I just heard from a friend on staff that the number for both services was 44!" if a similar statement had anything to do with SG's alleged improprieties.

We'd be up to our ears in cries of "FACTS, only the FACTS, please..."

StumblingServant said...

Apologies, admissions, rescinding the pledge command, lowest Love Offering since 80's.....it appears that the language the leadership hears has been clearly identified.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Speaking of Love Offering....one thing I noticed that SG didn't do that Dr. Rogers always did was say, "Let the Love Offering Begin," and then proceed to place his offering in with Joyce. I wish SG would have said that. I always thought that was neat.

Tim said...

I have not been quite as active for the past couple of days and especially today, but I have cauht up with all that has been going on with the blog.

I would like to point out that at some prior post a wise individual informed us of the "technique", which was designed to thwart our efforts. It was called rope-a-dope, after the boxing style that Ali made famous.

It appears to me from reading the post of the past couple of days that this is indeed the strategy. Of course, to imply that there is a strategy it would follow that there is an organized opposition to this blog. This is not something that I have first hand knowledge of, but it certainly appears that way.

Look at the time that has been spent, answering the same questions over and over to the same people..ie..HisServant and others. Watch how they engage us by talking in circles. Perhaps it is not a well organized strategy at all, but even if it is not, we are punching ourselves out dealing with these people.

I would suggest that we refrain from fighting the same battles over and over. It would be more appropriate to reply to such things in a manner such as...

"Your argument has already been answered in prior post on the blog."

or

"Please refer to the prior post on the blog, I believe you will find that we have already covered that item"

This would also dispel any offense that might be caused by posting that we are just ...
"scrollin on by".
A comment that I myself have been guilty of using.

Of course there will be an occasional new comer that may want information and they may indeed need to brought update and it may be better to recover some information for their benefit. That will be something that you will have to use your judgement on in determining.

I appreciate and love all of you in Christ. You are most precious.

headoutofthesand said...

Mike said:

I can't help but wonder, though--what are your plans for Sunday morning?

DISCLAIMER: Satire begins here:

Uh, you mean Saturday, right, Mike? After all, I'm Jewish. :)

As for Sunday, I'll probably start with a double-tall, sugar-free vanilla, skim latte as I read the Sunday paper and see how my favorite college teams did over the weekend. Afterwards, I'll probably beat my wife, call my Satanic friends and see what they're up to and then crack open a few beers before the NFL kickoff begins. Thanks for asking!

END DISCLAIMER. Satire has ended (however, sarcasm will likely continue).

Actually, I attend a Saturday evening worship service. You see, the Sabbath is actually a Saturday. If you knew history (instead of tradition, and everything else, apparently), you would know that Constantine forced Sunday worship upon the Christians in circa 400 A.D. in honor of the Egyptian god, Ra, who was worshipped on a Sunday. In spite of all that, though, the New Covenant kind of displaced all of that old "under the Law" stuff, don't you agree?

Oh wait...methinks you may have been referring to the "showdown" (your current obsession) instead. Well, rest assured, Monsignor Bratton, that I will not be partaking. I don't actually live in your fair city any longer. I was a 20-year member of the great BBC, the vast majority of which occured under Dr. Rogers' faithful watch. My how times change! I now attend another church on a galaxy far, far away, but imagine, I am still concerned with protecting the legacy that Dr. Rogers left us. Forgive me for intruding...

You see, Mike, when I rest my head on my pillow tonight, I will be at peace with the God who made the universe and all that is in it because I believe in His unwavering sovereignty. HE is in total control of this situation and doesn't need my help at all.

You, on the other hand, will go to sleep certain that you are right and everyone else in this matter is wrong and that YOU have done some good with your confrontational postings and that HE needs your help to set things straight. Thank HIM that that isn't true!

P.S. You are correct in one regard, though. I should not have used the word "always" in my previous post. Absolutes are so rarely correct in normal usage that employing them is setting oneself up for an easy rebuttal. My apologies.

P.P.S. Tim, you are absolutely correct, and I apologize to you and anyone else who feels that we should not engage certain posters. Unfortunately, I was cursed with a severe passion for justice that often prevails over common sense. I have appreciated your posts, brother, and am praying for you and those who are looking for resolution.

New BBC Open Forum said...

stumblingservant wrote:

".....it appears that the language the leadership hears has been clearly identified."

Hmmm... would part of that perhaps be money that walks talks loudest?

NASS

Custos said...

Mike, it's not worth it man. We seem to define things completely differently and see the world through nearly inverted lenses. Your arguments just don’t add up to me, and presumably mine don’t to you either.

I had a longer response written, but again, it's just not worth it. Point by point, tit-for-tat stuff won't get us anywhere since we just don't define things the same way at all.

Most folks here see what I'm talking about. Most folks who hang out at your place see things the way you see them. We're at an impasse here.

So, that said, I doff my hat to you, and rest in the assurance that when eternity rolls around, our differences will be reconciled.

Tim said...

headoutofthesand,

You and I share this trait. You have shown far more restraint, than I have been able to maintain. I am constantly having to remind myself that there is a difference between being right and being righteous.

The key that I have come to realize is that in being right you will always appear to be self righteous, in being righteous you will always be right.

God bless you. I have found no offense in your post, nor in your defense of our church.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Moved from last thread:

MOM4 said...

HisServant said...
mom4: what financial issues still remain?
12:38 PM, November 16, 2006

HisServant said...
mom4 posted: For one, I have repeated asked if the deacons were shown the actual invoices for ALL of the credit cards or just a power point presentation, and I have asked if there were other charges that were billed as separate invoices -(not on a credit card), and I have asked if the credit card statements for VISA, MC and AMEX were all presented.
No one has bothered to answer me yet?
Can you?

REPLY: so you asked the Committee and they did not answer you?? they have ALL the info. Visa? does not exist. Brother Steve goes above and beyond in the area of finances. if you really wanted the ANSWERS you would have them by now.
1:37 PM, November 16, 2006

MKW said...
Mom4,

I really dislike jumping into the fray, and I don't really have the time right this second to go back and research the exact "when and where" of this, but someone DID answer your question about the deacons' examination of the credit card charges. They said that they saw the Power Point AND the actual credit card information. I can go back and check this later if you'd like, but I distinctly recall that post among the thousands that I've read in the last week. If whoever posted that statement originally would repeat it, that would save a lot of time.

MKW
1:42 PM, November 16, 2006

MOM4 said...
I have submitted my request via the proper forms to the Communications Committee and I have not heard a "peep" from anyone. I sent it in as soon as the forms were made available which was close to being within the first weeks of the Committee's formation.
And the church does have a VISA because I have seen one not too long ago, or they did at one point. Has it been cancelled and the account closed? If so, when.

1:42 PM, November 16, 2006

MOM4 said...
MKW,
I did indeed ask Derrick Calcote and did not find a reply in this blog. If you do find it, please tell me when and where it is and I will apologize.
Thanks for your input.
1:45 PM, November 16, 2006

MOM4 now asks again:
It has been 10 more hours since I first asked the questions today and somehow, this subject just gets pushed under the rug - over and over and over...could this be one of the problems...HELLLLOOO????

MKW,
I still cannot find the answer, have you had any measure of success?

hisservant,
You asked a question, I asked a question, I answered your question to me, You have not responded at all to mine. This needs to be settled for us all to see, please.

11:03 PM, November 16, 2006

Just My Opinion said...

I have read most all the postings which have appeared on this website and its predecessor since the beginning. My position is probably closer to neutral than it would be to one side or the other. I truly want to understand the truth and relevance in all this as it does have an impact on the church where my membership of 17 years resides. I have limited my postings and remained an observer for the most part. But I feel compelled to write due to the increase of what I see as a ‘war of words’ that continues to be launched.

I do not personally know our pastor Steve Gaines, nor Mark Sharpe, Richard Emerson or others who have publicly expressed various concerns relating to our pastor. From the words of my friends at Bellevue most of the men who have voiced concerns are men of faith and integrity. I do know personally Chuck Taylor, David Coombs, John Crockett, and other Bellevue men who have been in lay leadership positions with our church. From a personal standpoint I know these men to be of integrity and love for our Lord Jesus.

I have personally visited with Derrick Calcoate and found him to be genuine and respectful while supporting our pastor. The reason I say ‘while supporting our pastor’ is that Derrick has acknowledge that position on numerous occasions. I make no judgment as to the right or wrong to his position but just a statement of fact. I have read the posts of Mike Bratton and while I personally do not know him I must admit that I would have little desire to want to meet him. He obviously is a fan of Steve Gaines and has utilized his ability to attempt dissuade others by the use of more rhetoric and name calling than fact. But there is a point in that I make use of the description of Mike as a ‘fan’. Herein rests my concerns about the postings I’ve witnessed on both sides of this issue.

If I may for a moment use a weak analogy of comparing posters on this site as fans to a sporting event. Have you ever watch a sporting event without a specific team in which you cared to support? In those cases you see and make determinations based on your understanding of the game and personal expectations of what constitutes great sport and gamesmanship. But many of us are fans of one team. What we see when our team losses is bad play calling, not enough effort, bad player attitudes and bad coaching. The week before after a big win we were proclaiming the great play calling, great effort, aggressive attitude and wonderful coaching. My point to this comparison is that we allow our emotions to dictate our thought process much too often. I recall a number of occasions our beloved Dr. Rogers admonishing us not to allow our feelings to dictate our decisions.

Dr. Rogers would point out that the reason he opposed gambling is that there had to be a loser for someone to be a winner. Of course from a business revenue point we know that casinos have to have many losers for there to be one winner. Dr. Rogers stressed that we be involved in situations which were win/win. That is where we need to focus with our existing situation. We need to find a way for everyone to have his/her voice heard, questions answered in a straight forward truthful manner and then to reconcile our differences and go on about the Lord’s business. But to have that win/win situation we must dispose of our emotional baggage on both sides. A great way to start is allowing the Communications Committee to work. Please seek your unanswered questions through the proper channels and yes by all means report them on the Internet for everyone to see. I think many issues will be put to rest this way. But for those of us (I do include myself) who see personality faults with Bro. Steve in the way he has handled various situation let us lay aside those differences of opinion. As the Lord has grown us in our walk, He will continue to grow Bro. Steve in his ministry. I believe that the apology to Mark Sharpe and the decision to not have the deacons sign a pledge are signs that Bro. Steve has heard from those hurting. He has taken some steps to reconcile, should we not do the same?

P.S. – Mike you can make a start by ending your use of the term ‘anti-Bellevue’. This term only inflames and you should know that one cannot be a reconciler of the brothers while tossing word phrases of this type. Am I wrong to assume that you would want to be a reconciler? Derrick, thank you for your honest attempts at reconciliation among our membership.

Anonymous said...

Ezekiel,

Your response was, "the Holy Spirit is a much greater teacher than this sinful man."

God chose to use us sinful men to reveal Himself. We are all of Jesus that many people will ever see.

Jesus said go and make disciples, and teach them to obey. Whether we realize it or not, we are always discipling others (for good or bad). Let's always set a fitting example in how we handle the inspired, infallible Word of God.

Anonymous said...

I would just like to openly ask and pled it need be that MOKE BRATTON stop posts that reflect so poorly on Bellevue and the pastor that he says he loves.

MIKE, If you love your pastor plese do not continue to use language that MANY see as bullying and intimidating.

Stop calling people who have genuine concerns anti-Bellevue.

Do you not realized that some who have concerns are Bellevue deacons and staff????

Your posts are BRUTAL and MEAN SPIRITED and nobody really cares what you say anymore because of the way you say it.

Many have really lost respect for you and when this is all over and reconciliation has come, you have your own list of people to reconcile with.

I must tell you that if you were ever nominated to become a deacon at Bellevue,I personally would have a problem when I see how you relate to people who have different views that you do. Maybe you are disquialified to be nominated, I don`t know, but if I see that you ever have been, I would have to bring my concerns to the deacon committee.

I hope you wil seriously consider stopping all of this.

I can not help but notice that your own website is full of hate and ridicule and while you are pointnig the finger of correction in a hateful manner to other websites and blogs, I hope you see that you are right in the middle of the problems which are keeping good people from coming together in love to reconcile their differences.

Everytime you come here you bring stones to throw. Please stop it.

I noticed that mkw, has aplogized for her tone and I appracite that because she was reflecting badly on Bellevue with her posts. Maybe she has learned a good lesson about how to deliver a message. I also noticed she callled for others to stop doing what she was doing. If you don`t want to listen to me, take a cue from your friend mkw.

I am surprized that our daacon, Derrick Calcote hasn`t asked this of you but I think you are being a GREAT STUMBLING BLOCK to reconciliation.

Come on and get on board the train of reconcilation MIKE!

Let your words be genrle or stop posting here.

Anonymous said...

sorry for the mistake...

make that MIKE BRATTON

Anonymous said...

Maybe you should consider deleting the offending posts you sent so that those who come here to read them won`t be offended over and over again???

In fact, they may be an act of real repentance on your part.

I forgive you mkw but your posts are still speaking to many who come here to read the threads and so there is ongoing offense.

Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Chuck Taylor talking at his emergency cabinet meeting:

"Guys, we have to do something. We've backed ourselves into a corner once again. Only 80 deacons have signed so far and we know there are deacons meeting off campus refusing to sign and stand. They are standing firm that they will not join the pastor on the platform to pleadge their loyalty to him. If we go through with it we are doomed and then we'll have to deal with the deacons that won't sign it. We have just put ourselves in a very bad situation once again.
How can we spin it this time.
Let's tell everyone things are going so great with the communications committee that we don't have to have the deacons stand anylonger.
Yea, that's it. Let's tell the church body everything if fine now.

Reality:
Why not be honest and just say it was a bad idea and deal with the problems.

Anonymous said...

There once was a man who owned a famous racing stallion.

One day he went to the barn and the stallion was missing.

Weeks passed by and no one could find the stallion.

Three months later a neighbor came by and confessed to the stallion owner that he had stolen the stallion.

He said I am so sorry.

He even cried.

The stallion owner forgave him and said he would forget that he ever stole the stallion.

The stallion thief thanked him and when they were through talking, the thief turned to walk away.

That afternoon the thief saddled up the stallion and took nice ride and never gave this actions another thought.

One day, the Stallion owner called out to him, Neighbor when will you be back to bring my stallion home?

The thief did not reply.

The stallion owner never saw his stallion again.

True tepentance requires a person to undo the wrong they have done and to never so it again.

I may not be telling the repentance story perfectly but I hope the point is intact.

Will McKay said...

Terra,

Why not be honest and not post garbage that you have no clue about?

Anonymous said...

dramadramadrama

Do you have a clue about it?

Will McKay said...

"True tepentance requires a person to undo the wrong they have done and to never so it again."

Touching story but poor analogy.

Sure, with theft you give back the item, or make restitution, but you can never undo a wrong.

How can a person "unsteal" a horse?

Anonymous said...

terrafirma,

Is your comment an exact quote of Chuck Taylor or a paraphrase? You have quotation marks at the beginning but none closing his remarks.

When and to whom did he make this comment?

I think it's very important to be clear on your comment. Thank you for posting it but I think clarity is needed.

Thanks.

MOM4 said...

MKW said...
Found what I was looking for.

HisServant said...
mom4: the Deacons did not just see a spreadsheet, they saw the statements as well. ALL of them and had access to the actual credit card receipts. Brother Steve goes above and beyond in this area.

1:00 AM, November 15, 2006

Now, can we respectfully ask for perhaps two or three deacons who were IN that meeting to post back and verify this so the matter can be laid to rest?

MKW

Thank you MKW,
I apologize for the reference that there had been no response. Although this is not exactly what I was looking for, it is indeed something. The original post was to Derrick and I was looking for something from him, specifically about the VISA and other charges not related to a credit card, but direct billed to the church.
Hopefully, as you requested, we will see confirmation from the deacons to clairify this issue. Thank you for the time you took to research this, and again, I apologize for my oversight. (I still cannot find it, my eyes are beginning to dim:)

Anonymous said...

dramadramadrama said

How can a person "unsteal" a horse?


I`m glad you pointed that our.

You cn not unsteal anything and this is why there is a consequence to every sin we committee. We can not unsin!

We can however make restitution and we willing to bear the consequences of our sin.

By thw way is there a story behind the name you chose to post under?

Anonymous said...

mkw said

I fear any Christian sets themselves up for sure judgment when they start pointing fingers at others.

You have done exactly what you mention here on many occassions but I do forgive you now, let`s scroll on!

junior 5432 said...

MKW

BEYERECONCILED said...
Maybe you should consider deleting the offending posts you sent so that those who come here to read them won`t be offended over and over again???

I wholeheartededly agree with BEYERECONCILED. If you don't want to cause others to stumble remove the posts that are harmful. If you don't know which ones just ask God and He will guide you. I can say that some of your posts were not negative but many were.

Will McKay said...

Funny, no one has insisted that refuted lies about the pastor/deacons be removed...

Anonymous said...

dramadramadrama said...
Funny, no one has insisted that refuted lies

I didn`t see where anyone insisted that anyone delete any posts. I think it was just a suggestion made after mkw brought it up hersself.

mkw said:

after all. Is the best or only option for me to sign on and delete every post I've made?

Let`s be careful not to put words on someone elses`s lips!

MOM4 said...

MKW said...
MKW, in the spirit of love and reconciliation, passes Mom4 her white cane ...

8:40 AM, November 17, 2006

I will gratefully accept your white cane, after all, that is what we are here for, to hold each other's arms up as the battle rages:)

Karen said...

MKW,

If you post your real name, the personal attacks seem to subside. Mike Bratton knows my realy name and we have a personal history - and he knows my mom with whack him with a stick if he bugs me too much! <---- you know mom wouldn't really do that, but have you seen the size of my brother?

Seriously, I think the time of anonymity has come to an end. I know some people will remain anonymous out of respect for their familes and I totally respect that.

I'm just saying, it gets less personal and the cutting remarks seem to subside if you know you'll be sitting next to that person from this blog on Sunday.

Ok, hisservant, if you let me know who you are, I'll hug your neck on Sunday and we can agree to disagree. I apologize for making things personal in regard to you yesterday.

In case anyone forgot, I'm Karen Turk Marshall.

Being non-anonymous is very freeing! :)

Karen said...

Thanks Derrick, for letting us know about the deacon body rethinkig their position at this time. We'll let the process work if that's what it takes.

Check your email.

Thanks! Karen

terrafirma,

While I appreciated the satirical nature of your "Chuck Taylor" post, please make it clear that it was done in jest. Thanks! :)

Tim said...

To the posters of this blog,

Please as you well know my words have not always been kind and at times have been quite cutting. I believe that in comparison to some of mine, "mkw" has been quite civil. She and I are not in agreement on every thing, but we are within the same body. She and I share a common trait, we are passionate in our beliefs and I, personally, admire that within her spirit. We are not called to be the same, but in our differences we can be one. This is the mystery of the body of Christ.

The purpose of this blog was not to confront sin affecting us individually, but of sins that affect us congregationally.

Thanks

Tim said...

NBBCOF,

Please forgive the rephrasing or addition to your statement of purpose. Feel free to correct my statement, if it is inaccurate representation of your feelings.

Karen said...

MKW,

I had forgotten you were not anonymous.

Tim,

Well Said!

Karen

New BBC Open Forum said...

Tim,

Thank you for your words of wisdom! I've now added them to the purpose statement for the forum.

NBBCOF

ezekiel said...

sr says...

Jesus said go and make disciples, and teach them to obey. Whether we realize it or not, we are always discipling others (for good or bad). Let's always set a fitting example in how we handle the inspired, infallible Word of God.

Ok, sr, I will go ahead and wade on out here with you, This may get a little deep and I feel terribly lacking in organization and articulation but hear it is.

1)I suggest you read:
http://www.godrules.net/library/wesley/wesleypsa119.htm for a good look at all of Psalms 119

Psalms 119:21 Thou hast rebuked the proud [that are] cursed, which do err from thy commandments.

The Lord is clearly rebuking the proud which are cursed and err from his commandments. The scriptural basis for my warning is:

3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

3:20 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

It appears we have folks that have turned from their righteousness and scattered the flock. EZ 34 How else can one explain the "leave if you don't like it" or the pridefull refusal to admit wrong and ask forgiveness we have seen from our leaders?

3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous [man], that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

So some of us would say I am judging them, I would say I see fruits of unrighteousness and I am warning rather than judging. That is after all JESUS's job.

As to the timing of that judgement, you see that begin.

1Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?

And ends with:

20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

I emphasise here "we are judged by our works".

20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The sea is many peoples and nations and tounges. See Revelation17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The real scary part is:

17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Wesley's notes as support.
1. And there came one of the seven angels, saying, Come hither - This relation concerning the great whore, and that concerning the wife of the Lamb, chap. xxi, 9, 10, have the same introduction, in token of the exact opposition between them. I will show thee the judgment of the great whore - Which is now circumstantially described. That sitteth as a queen - In pomp, power, ease, and luxury. Upon many waters - Many people and nations, verse 15. chap. xvii, 15

2. With whom the kings of the earth - Both ancient and modern, for many ages. Have committed fornication - By partaking of her idolatry and various wickedness. And the inhabitants of the earth - The common people. Have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication - No wine can more thoroughly intoxicate those who drink it, than false zeal does the followers of the great whore.

I believe the great whore to be a church which has prostituted itself to money, power and pride, likely world wide and bride to the anti-christ.

Wasn't pride where we started?

Which church do we want to be a part of? One where money, position, power and authority rule the day or the one where love, gentleness, kindness and all the atributes of JESUS are evident. After all we are Jesus's bride aren't we?

Signed "saved by faith, judged by works" your humble servant in Christ.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

REPOST so it won't be missed....

ezekiel said...
Derrick Calcote...

Praise God for the 44!!!!

The credit belongs to the Holy Spirit for those saved. Quit thumping your chest.

You and the other deacons along with the administration are responsible for those that have left. What are you doing to get them back?


Deacon Calcote,
This is a very good question and I am very glad Ezekiel asked it. I anxiously await and answer. Are the Deacons among the "like it or leave it crowd," doing anything about those sheep that have left the flock, or are they cutting their losses?

Bin Wonderin said...

Chuck Taylor talking at his emergency cabinet meeting:

Is this satire? If so, posts like this putting words in someone's mouth do not do anyone any good. Please don't post "quotes" like this unless you were actually at a real meeting and you can make a direct quote. I'm pretty sure this was sarcasm/satire, and it may be funny to some but it is not helpful.

New BBC Open Forum said...

mkw,

No one is suggesting you remove your old comments. In fact, I hope you don't! You've been an integral part of past discussions and while presenting opposing views have managed to maintain a civil and respectful tone (which is more than some on both "sides" of the issues have managed to accomplish). I appreciate your contributions and share your desire for reconciliation. Thank you!

NBBCOF

New BBC Open Forum said...

terrafirma,

I agree with bin wonderin. I read it as satire; some may not. Please don't quote quotes that aren't real quotes.

NBBCOF

Anonymous said...

Ezekiel,

VERY well done. Your post was most thought provoking. You even seem to have picked up on my earlier allusion to Psalm 119:74.

I have several commentaries on the Psalm, and I'll visit the link you recommended when I have time.

I encourage you to continue to search God's Word for guidance. That's the kind of "work" He'll surely reward.

ezekiel said...

sr...

I am not hoping he will reward my work as you say. Mercy that He has promised will be all I could ever hope for. Is that Faith?

Anonymous said...

Great post Derrick and thanks I agree that God is doing a mighty work. he is breaking us down and bringing us to our knees.

Anonymous said...

Ezekiel,

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that there are 'no strings attached' to your faith (i.e. what you have already received is sufficient for you). That attitude is consistent with what David wrote in Psalm 27, "One thing I ask of the LORD, this is what I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple." I believe it's the correct way to think. The beauty of the Lord will far surpass any earthly treasure.

However, the Bible doesn't blush as it promises rewards for those who are faithful. We should eagerly look forward to the treasures we store up in heaven and never stop accumulating them.

Always love the giver more than the gift, though, just as we love our Saviour more than our salvation.

ezekiel said...

sr...

Would you consider that related to Rev 4:10?

ezekiel said...

sr...

Yes that is pretty accurate. Faith is enough but it has to be faith from the heart. Even demons have faith of the head.......

7:13 PM, November 17, 2006

junior 5432 said...

MKW

Below is a cut ande paste copy of what I posted earlier today. Please tell me how I have offended you by my remarks. You had stated in an earlier post that some were bashing you and you did not understand why. I just wanted you to know that I "perceived" some of your posts as being negative and that maybe you should ask God to guide you in removing posts that could be considered negative.

I have done that myself a couple of times. Once when I reread my post and realized it did not sound the way it should. Another when I posted something that I was concerned and someone just before me had posted the answer I was looking for. It just happened that it was posted at the time I was typing my post.

Please reread my post below and let me know what you considered offensive. If you still agree that I have offended you please let me know and I will ask your forgiveness. I definitely do not want to think that I am trying to berate any no matter what their opinion is. I may disagree with you but I will not be impolite to you on purpose.

Love in Christ Junior.

junior 5432 said...
MKW

BEYERECONCILED said...
Maybe you should consider deleting the offending posts you sent so that those who come here to read them won`t be offended over and over again???

I wholeheartededly agree with BEYERECONCILED. If you don't want to cause others to stumble remove the posts that are harmful. If you don't know which ones just ask God and He will guide you. I can say that some of your posts were not negative but many were.

8:46 AM, November 17, 2006

New BBC Open Forum said...

junior5432,

I think that's all been covered adequately and that we've agreed to move on. If you still have a personal issue with mkw perhaps the two of you could work it out privately.

Thanks,

NBBCOF