Tuesday, November 07, 2006

Ask the Communications Committee!

On Sunday night, November 5th, we were told by Harry Smith, chairman of the Communications Committee that they had received only about 15 questionnaires from members. The forms are available at the ERC in the west lobby, but perhaps some have forgotten to pick them up. Therefore, a downloadable copy is being made available here.

There is room for one question on this form, and I'm sure there are many with more than one question. Whether or not submitting these forms will result in any questions being answered, no one yet knows. However, if they receive only 15 forms they're going to think everyone is satisfied with the kinds of answers that were given in the information meetings on 9/24 and 11/5, and who would blame them? If you were not satisfied with the answers you received in those meetings, I would encourage you to download and fill out a copy of this form for every question you have. Do it this week! If it takes 10 copies, then by all means fill out and submit 10 copies! There is a special box in the west lobby where you can drop them off.

Also, we were told on Sunday that members of the committee will make themselves available beginning November 12th in a room near the fellowship hall between the hours of 8:30 and 9:30 on Sunday mornings. We were invited to drop by and meet the committee members and ask any questions we may have for them. So again, I would encourage everyone who still has questions to drop by and visit with the committee.

Go with an open mind, and please don't be confrontational! Remain calm and respectful, ask any legitimate questions you might have, and give them the opportunity to respond. You may think this is a waste of time. Maybe it is. I hope not, but it is the procedure that we've been given to try to resolve these issues. Right now we need to work within the system.

Please don't give them the satisfaction of saying, "Only 15 people had questions, so that means the other 29,985 are satisfied."

38 comments:

Karen said...

Hello All,

I was told that not the whole committee (18 people, I think ) will be there answering questions. I was told that about 3 people will be there. Do we submit questions in advance or do we just bring them with us?

Thanks!
Karen

MOM4 said...

Will the committee or the 3 that are there, have the credit card records for inspection. Redacted account numbers would be in order for sure, but the bills and receipts should be made available for both (all) credit cards.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Karen,

They didn't say, but I think I'd make two copies of each questionnaire you fill out and take one with you, drop one in the box, and just as important, keep one for your own records to make sure they follow up.

mom4,

I wouldn't count on it! Besides, how would you know if you were seeing all the receipts for all the credit cards or not? From what I understand, the people who examined the receipts didn't see any credit card statements and just saw scanned copies of the receipts from only one card.

NASS

Karen said...

mom4,

Just to make sure I'm not dispensing bad info; this is from my email to/from Derrick Calcotte (he wanted to get together; I told him I'd meet him at Sunday morning's meeting):

I assume you mean the meeting with the communications committee? I will be glad to meet you there.

Just to reassure you (since it has not been made clear that I have heard) when you get there it won't be 18 people sitting there to answer questions. It will be a few members of the committee. Around three of them if I remember correctly.

I will wear my deacon's badge so you may identify me. If you don't mind I'll try and follow this up with an e.mail on Saturday, and if I forget will you please remind me?

-Derrick

New BBC Open Forum said...

I don't think anyone expected to walk in and find all 18 (I thought it was 12) of them sitting there. I'm sure they have SS classes and other obligations during that hour.

MOM4 said...

Karen,
Thanks for the email from Derrick. I would like assurance that all the credit card statements and receipts (account numbers redacted) would be available for inspection (a supervised inspection is fine.
If we can't get past that, then there is no point moving forward with anything else until that is cleared up by all.

one member said...

Mom4,
If the leadership is not willing to produce the requested documentation, maybe the IRS would be able to get it. We know it exists, why is it not being produced?
Your request is fair and reasonable. We will be waiting to see how they handle it.

Karen said...

Mom,

You're welcome. I think exact words are necessary to avoid confusion these days. :)

I think the credit cards are a dead issue. They're not going to say there's anything amiss and I don't believe it. God alone will have to deal with that one.

There are so many other issues, especially this loyalty oath that's come up. I'm physically ill over that one.

karen

MOM4 said...

Karen,
I believe the covenant oath is another smoke screen to divert attention from the facts. I fear that if they proceed with this that it will only deepen the divide.
I also believe with all my heart that Steve Gaines did have a divine appointment with Bellevue. I also believe, as I stated earlier, that his appointment was to refine the gold that is Bellevue. We are the Lord's church and as we are finding out, there are many among us who are behaving (from the posts and letters that have been written)as if our position as the sheep of the Lord's pasture are of no worth to His Kingdom.
I was reading in Jeremiah 23 this morning and was struck at the passage, especially v1-4
"1Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
2Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
3And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
4And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.

Before I get trounced for taking scripture out of context,(I know this is about the nation of Israel) I believe that what is true then is true today and we will need a new shepherd to move on.

Someone said to me that they had rather have a man straight out of seminary rather than what we have now - I and many others agree.

When the Lord is finished refining the remnant HE will leave as Bellevue, we can look forward to returning to that shining beacon on a hill where the "Truth and Light" are there for all to see and will will send it forth until His return.

Karen said...

Mom,

You're choice of scripture gave me chills - it's not out of context, it's right on target. Thank you!

It's hard to tell what's smoke and what's fire right now, huh? I think all the issues are valid (credit cards, fence climbing, Union City, Dr. Whitmire and not this oath thing.) so I'm apologize to you if you feel I dismissed your concern - that was not my intent. :)

MOM4 said...

Karen,
No offense taken, I was just elaborating my point..which I am inclined to do.
The scripture was very enlightening to me as well and I was dumbfounded at how relevant it was to our situation.
I appreciate your willingness to be open here. There are so many members I know that read these posts, but do not comment for one reason or another, some are just afraid, but they are praying and seeking as well.
I am looking forward to Sunday.

LSPSAM said...

I have been a Bellevue member for seventeen years and I never thought that something like this would ever happen in our church. First of all the loyalty statement that all of the deacons are going to be required to sign is questionable; there most likely will be some deacons who will sign it just to avoid any confrontation and that would be causing them to lie or maybe I should say sin.
The credit card situation is something that the church will have to take the pastor's word on that he uses it for what it was meant to be used for.
The fence episode I would forget about because all those involved know it was wrong and I think they already confessed that.
The dream episode is he said, he said, you'll never know what really happened.
The episode of saying that one side would'nt meet with the other is another case of he said, he said, you will never know the answer to that.
I can't beleive that a church would have its deacons to sign a statement of loyalty regardless of what transpires in the future. If a deacon is not qualified to decide for himself then he should not be a deacon. The finance commitee should be the body that sets the wages and that commitee should be bipartisan not the same people that have been doing it forever.Pay the staff what the fair wage is for their position and length of service.
Now for the pulpit commitee what I think they should do is come before the church and each one answer two questions.
#1 Did Dr.Rogers make any recommendations to the pulpit commitee prior or during the search?
#2 Exactly what prompted the commitee to choose Pastor Gaines?
Now as far as the Pastor goes and his statement he made to Gardendale prior to his acceptance,if he didn't want to come to Bellevue why did he? That's about all I can tell you about this mess we're in.
Thanks

Isawit said...

I know some older people that are fearful of anyone knowing they have questions. Has anyone else spoke with older people that would like to question but are afraid?
I think the fear comes from seeing what has happened to people that have attached their names to letters. I thank you all for your courage and sacrifice.

Truth Hunter said...

eccl. 7:25,

Many of our elderly have had concerns since Dr. Gaines' arrival. They see our services as a mockery and they feel unwanted. Many of them are uncomfortable with the internet. However, they are keeping up with everything that is happening. I know of several that had been members for 40-plus years that have now gone elsewhere because they feel unwanted. Let's face it, the direction we are headed is designed to entice young people, not older people. That is just one of the problems with the seeker-sentive movement.

ezekiel said...

mom4...

Keep reading. If you eat and drink him daily (read his WORD)you will start to see the context (big picture) and you are as we say dead spot on and in context. Israel is God's chosen people. The very ones that God was going to use to show the world. They turned from righteousness over the years, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Isaiah were sent to try to turn them back to God.

You will find the same warning to pastors in Ezekiel 34. We are God's chosen people of the new testement. See Romans 11:17. We have been grafted in. The church is God's people. But if we turn from righteousness he can break us off like he did Israel. It is a bit much to go into here, (where is BIBLE study?) But if you start out with Ez 18:24, then look at Ez 3, 33 and Genesis 15:6, Romans 4, John 15:2........

Israel was God's peaple, now we are, and we are making the same mistakes, and our leaders are acting just like the pharisees of Ezekiel's day. Our pastors are seeking money, power and if you don't act right they will throw you out just like they did the blind man that JESUS heeled. Through their actions we become hardened and scattered and wandering around in the wilderness....

Read every day and HE will wash us with his word and restore our righteousness! Eph 5:26-27

MOM4 said...

Ezekiel,
I just figured I would get 'trounced' because that is the habit of some that are rather ugly when it comes to their "oposition" quoting scripture.
With that said, I am convinced that I was dead on with that scripture, and I am equally convinced that the Lord gave it to me. I am stong in the belief that the Lord has not moved any of us to another church for a specific reason. He is working among us and thru us and He will bring about a reckoning for all of this, no matter who is responsible. But, the heads of our leadership will bear the full brunt of the judgement and that I am sure because scripture has given them the divine responsibility to care for the flock and that they are not doing.
There is a host of uncaring and unloving staff and deacons and members who need to align their allegiance with God Almighty and only Him.
Steve Gaines is not our final authority on this, scripture is. These men and women need to search their hearts and see if they are following Steve Gaines or following power and postition or are they willing to follow God and God AlONE. If they seek to follow God alone, and if they search with all their hearts, they will see and know and understand. If not, I would not want to be any where near when the Lord deals with them, but I believe that with this in the public arena, the world needs to see that Bellevue does indeed stand for Truth and Light and the Lord will not tolerate it any other way if for no other reason that a fellowship of believers who are making a stand for Jesus and His church.

ezekiel said...

mom4.........

I could not agree more! By the way, when you talk of knowing it was given to you, take a look at what (Habukkuk 2:9-17) I ran into day before yesterday as I was finishing my review of Revelations. The Pastor and the deacons appear to be building their own high hill with our wine (money is quite intoxicating isn't it) and it is looking like they have become drunk on it and we see the resulting loss of righteousness (nakedness).

Don't you just tingle all over when the holy spirit sits with you and teaches you!!!!

There are prophets and teachers among us......and they are being shown the door.

New BBC Open Forum said...

ezekiel,

It's "Habakkuk," but I guess most of us do well to even find it, much less spell it correctly.

You might appreciate this.

New BBC Open Forum said...

And for a more lighthearted look at the PD movement see The Sacred Sandwich. Be sure to check out the "Gallery of Dubious Photojournalism," the link to which is about halfway down that page. If you don't laugh at something you find there, then I'm afraid there's no hope for you!

NASS

Karen said...

NASS! That's the funniest thing I've seen all week - well, I'm off to rapture practice! :)

Karen

allofgrace said...

nbbcof,
Thanks for the link to the "Sacred Sandwich"...great stuff..and cuts right to the core. I laughed so hard I thought I would choke.

cjesusnme said...

Nass,

We all need a good chuckle. I think everyone needs to do their rapture exercises every morning! Thanks for bringing some someshine to us all!

Karen said...

Copied and pasted from another thread - by me! Karen

Ok, I'll post my meeting notes here:

Mom and I received a 10-page handout with lots of questions and answers on it. I have a copy and I've scanned a copy (but I can't get it to work right now) and I'm sure there are more copies floating around at BBC. I was really disappointed with the turnout I saw at the "get together". I told NASS last night via email that I only saw about 6 people speaking with committe members. People, that is sad! I think this was our opportunity to show how many people are hurting and confused by the leadership at BBC, and now they have "ammunition" that says there are only a handful of people who are discontent. If you're going to complain or discuss issues on a blog, but not have the courage or conviction to come face-to-face with someone who is actually answering questions, then you need to get out of the fight. I'm not convinced that the answers I received yesterday were truth, but I now have a "wait and see" attitude about it. I will know when I've been lied to and will be able to make any decisions I need to make. I really am disppointed at the turnout.

Did you know that Steve Gaines preaches on Thursday nights at i2? I thought that there was a preacher for that group, but apparantly according to Steve Tucker, that preacher took another job and now Steve preaches. Why does SG do that and then not preach on Wednesday night? You'd think that if he wanted to meet with committees and whatever, whoever, that he would do that on Thursdays. Everything about that not preaching on Wednesdays is just shady to me. Steve did not indicate if the i2 preaching was just for the interim or if it would continue forever.

Steve Tucker indicated that the way things were handled with Dr. Whitmire were handled badly, but really there was no way to go back in time and change things. My mother and I promised Steve that we would try to dispel any rumors and work toward reconcilliation. We are in "wait and see" mode to make sure what Steve Tucker s

I also learned yesterday (not from Steve, but my mom) that David Smith and the Administration ministers (David, Bryson (?) McQuiston and 2 executive/administrative secretaries) were told to "find something to do" when Steve arrived and that David was required to report to Mark D. each week - about what I don't know. Then, they demoted Mr. McQuiston and David Smith (I don't know what happened to the secretaries.)

Also, did you know that SG's car is a perk for him? I know that Jimmy Foster and Schilling have gave cars to Dr. Rogers over the years, but I didn't know that the church was paying for it. I know that his car was worked on at an aftermarket car place here in town, but I can't substatiate it because I can't get the bill for it. A friend of mine works at this car place and pointed the SUV out to me (with no prompting from me) and told me "we're doing about $40,000 in improvements to that new Bellevue guy's car). He didn't know I go to Bellevue, so why would he make that up.

Most of this is way off topic so if NASS wants to move it, please do.

Thanks, Karen

Karen said...

Tim,

Get off my brain wave! LOL :)

Karen said...

From my origial post; I think I got ahead of myself and didn't finish my thought:

Steve Tucker indicated that the way things were handled with Dr. Whitmire were handled badly, but really there was no way to go back in time and change things. My mother and I promised Steve T. that we would try to dispel any rumors and work toward reconcilliation. We are in "wait and see" mode to make sure what Steve Tucker said yesterday is true and if changes will be coming.

Tim said...

karen,
In regard to my personal information and why I would not present myself before this committee. I have seen and witnessed, and there are many within the discussions of this blog also that can say the same, that those with opposing views have been treated horribly. For the sake of my family I have maintained myself to be "Tim - the tool man - Taylor". My wife and my children should not have to be subjected to ridicule, because they have a husband and father that will not compromise his principles. Never the less, should it come to the point, that my identity must be known for my voice to be heard, it will be revealed. Until I feel that it is at that point, I will remain as I am. I assure you that I am no one of any signifigance, just a concerned layman.

Karen said...

Tim,

I hope I didn't offend you with my comments. I understand why some people will remain anonymous. I'm nobody as well. The turnout as I saw it was very thin. Also, you know I was kidding about the "brain wave" thing, right? It was funny that you cut and pasted then I cut and pasted. Great minds....

Karen

Tim said...

karen,

no offense at all taken, but I did feel the need to elaborate.

Cary said...

Karen said:
"Did you know that Steve Gaines preaches on Thursday nights at i2?..."Why does SG do that and then not preach on Wednesday night?"

What now? Are you going to be criticizing him for preaching on Thursday nights? You've got to be kidding me... Here's something else you may not know: did you know he preaches every Thursday morning too? It's at 6am at the Morning Manna breakfast. How dare him!!!

Karen said...

cary,

I was just saying that if he doesn't have enough time to preach on Wednesday night - traditionally, one of 2 main days for formal worship in the Southern Baptist Church - because of "family time" or meeting with committees or whatever, how all of a sudden does he have the time and stamina to preach on Thursdays? I knew about Morning Manna - I felt that was fine because it's not taking away from congregational preaching. This i2 thing was his idea and there was a huge build-up for it, introducing the praise leader and the preacher on the jumbo screens. We didn't hear that i2 had a new preacher. I'm just saying he doesn't preach very much in BBC church services, but has enough time and energy to preach Thursday nights and at other churches during the week.

Anonymous said...

Brother Steve did not plan on preaching at i2, but things changed. they are really trying to reach that age group in Memphis. it is an age group many churches forget about. they lost their speaker that was doing i2. he moved on and Brother Steve is filling in for now. not sure for how long. I TRULLY applaud Brother Steve for all he is doing. he teaches a GREAT men's Bible study at 6am on Thursday and now i2 at night. hope this helped.

New BBC Open Forum said...

hisservant wrote:

"Brother Steve did not plan on preaching at i2, but things changed. they are really trying to reach that age group in Memphis. it is an age group many churches forget about."

It just seems like they're trying to reach the 18-29 age group at the same time they're pushing another age group out the back door -- anyone over, say, 50.

NASS

ezekiel said...

Has anyone officially said where the original i2 preacher/teacher went? Who was he and why did he leave in the middle of the launch of this important
ministry?

Cary said...

Ezekiel,

The preacher was Ben Mandrell and he is from Jackson, TN. He currently serves at a church there (Englewood Baptist) and he actually served there during the first semester of i2.

He did not come back this semester because of other responsibilies he has at his home church.

Karen said...

Thank you NASS! I'm not over 50, but I'm alot closer to that than 18-29! :)

Ezekiel, I found this at i2.org from the bellevue.org website tonight. It still lists the orignal "pastor":

"The music at i2 was led by Ryan Wingo, and Ben Mandrel delivered a message based on Matthew 5: 27-30. The lesson on lust was the first in a series entitled "Can you repeat that? Hard sayings of Jesus."

I don't know where Ben Mandrel went, but I found out about it when I read the handout that the Communications Committe gave out on Sunday. I'm sure you can get a copy of it if you ask around. I'm trying to scan and download it, but it may take me a day or so.

hisservant,

I still contend that if Steve Gaines has enough time and stamina to "stand in" for i2, he should have attempted to preach on Wednesday night to us "old folks" and let some younger preacher reach the 18-29 year old group. I think he's shooting himself in the foot by saying one thing from the pulpit (Why I don't preach on Wednesday night) and doing another (finding the time to preach on Thursday night). Please consider the look of impropriety; I'm not saying he's doing anything wrong. I just want him to say what he means and mean what he says. Why
is that so hard for him?

I don't care one bit if he doesn't preach on Wednesday night. Let me repeat myself lest someone misses it: I don't care one bit if he doesn't preach on Wednesday night. He said he doesn't preach on Wednesday night because he uses it for family time or committees or because he's pooped or whatever. That's fine. My problem is now he's added a preaching engagement (i2 - even if it's temporary) and he's not even preaching to the main congregation full-time. He is the Senior Pastor; his role is to be the main Pastor of BBC when BBC has main gatherings - Sunday am and pm and Wed night. Don't we have a Minister to College, a Minister to Singles, an Associate Pastor that MAYBE could have been a better choice to preach at i2? Can't you see, even a little bit, how contradictory he's being by choosing to take over i2? Maybe just one tittle of one iota?

Thanks,

Karen

Karen said...

cary,

Thank you for the info - I didn't know Ben Mandrel was from Jackson. He's still listed as the Pastor on the i2.org website.

Bell22 said...

NASS:This will be my last post as I feel my walk with God is being impacted,with that I will leave you with this part of the committee met with the children's leadership Sunday all I can say is the sheep do have teeth and they used it Sunday on them I believe the comm. now knows there are more than just a few of us they admitted there were wrongs done and many problems they are trying to fix .Let's hope so, Bye Thank you for your effort to help our church.

Anonymous said...

To the coverup team And Harry K. Smith (author of the "A Message to the Congregation"You signed this mail out to my house?Or given a couple of days would you like to cancel it?Or would you like to use SG title "I didn't fall off the Cabbage truck yesterday"he quacked in sunday morn service...or The reason he didn"t fall off the cabbage truck is because he fell into a cabbage truck and he don:t want to get off.Cover up?Big Cabbage...Whats in secret will be shouted in front of the cabbage truck even if you try to run us over...

10:44 PM, November 21, 2006