Friday, December 15, 2006

It's Time for Truth!

There is currently a serious situation at Bellevue that is just now coming to light. References have been made to this issue in the past few days, but the story is getting out now, and I think it's time to address it openly. A discussion was started in the "Apologies and Forgiveness" thread on December 14th after a list of needed changes for "Pastoral Accountability to the Congregation" was posted by "25+yrs@bbc" which included this:

"Timely removal from office of ministers guilty of sexual immorality with immediate and timely coordination with the appropriate authorities if any laws have been broken by a minister (no matter how long ago), including thorough investigation of the matter when the minister's conduct may have affected other church members or their children."

A poster with the screen name "sackcloth&ashes" wrote:

"Bellevue has a minister who has been on staff for many years who, while serving on staff at Bellevue, sexually molested and sodomized his own pre-teen son and continued for some time thereafter.

"The son is now of age and he confronted his minister father and the minister confessed in front of witnesses at the church.

"Gaines has known about this for well over a month and little to nothing has been done. Gaines said that it was "under the blood."

"While that may be true, it still does not relieve the minister of consequences in this life. If he would do such a thing with his own son, then perhaps it would be easier with someone else's. Usually this kind of thing can involve many other children.

"To make matters worse, this minister has been over the record keeping for children's workers for quite some time.

"This is far bigger than some private, family sin. Gaines should have removed the minister from Bellevue the MOMENT he found out about it.

"Ministers of Bellevue have been removed in the past for adultery... how could Gaines have thought that incest and sodomy were not as serious?

"God is cleaning house at Bellevue... The membership needs to wake up! It is time to stop all the standing ovations and get down on our faces and seek God.

"Mothers of Bellevue find your voices and fathers of Bellevue find your courage! Your leaders have been quiet and spineless.

"It is way past time for light and truth."


And that pretty much sums up all most of us know about it other than the names of the minister and his son. The discussion continued from there with a couple of people strongly urging the name of the minister involved be revealed in this forum. While many are aware of the man's name, including the proper authorities now, he does have a family and we need to respect their feelings, especially those of this man's son who is the real victim in all this. Therefore, in the discussions which will inevitably follow, at least until this story becomes officially public, I would request that no mention of this man's or any of his family's names be made in this forum. This news unfortunately is likely to break in the media very soon, but we do not have to broadcast the details of the story here, especially since we really don't know all the details. This is not the place for speculation about what did or didn't happen in this family. It's also not right to say that Dr. Rogers may have known about it. There's no evidence whatsoever than anyone outside the immediate family knew anything about this until the past few months when the son came forward with it and the minister confessed before Steve Gaines and other witnesses.

The discussion here now needs to focus on how the cover up of this issue by the administration has affected Bellevue and how we should go forward from here. The proper authorities must be entrusted to handle the specifics of the situation with the perpetrator and victim.

Some questions to consider include:

1. When did Steve Gaines learn about this situation?

2. What other staff members were aware of it and when?

3. What did Steve Gaines and the administration do about the situation? Did anyone call the authorities?

4. Why wasn't this staff minister immediately fired? Why is he still serving on the staff at all?

5. Since he was allowed to remain on staff, were any measures put into place to ensure this man never came into contact with children while at church?

Maybe this comment by "westtnbarrister" sums it up best:

"I first heard this molestation story roughly two weeks ago. I found the tale so stunning I couldn’t believe it was true. Not at Bellevue! Gradually, as more and more details have come out, my disbelief and shock were transformed into belief and anger. How could our pastor know this and do nothing? How about those other ministers on staff? Was there not even one man willing to risk his job for the truth? For children?"

There are many comments on this topic in the "Apologies and Forgiveness" thread which is the thread just prior to this one beginning around 10:50 a.m. on December 14th. Please continue that discussion in this thread.

There is also the allegation that a Bellevue Board of Directors member has been involved in an ongoing extramarital relationship, and he has reportedly been asked to resign. Whether or not he has complied, no one seems to be certain, but again, I would ask that any discussion of this matter also be conducted without mentioning names -- again for the sake of the families involved.

I cannot begin to fathom how painful this has been and will be for these families in the days and weeks to come. I fear there are going to be some dark days for our church in the weeks to come as well. Please, let's pray for the families that the Lord will comfort and strengthen them in this stressful time. And let's pray that Bellevue will be cleansed from the inside out and returned to the shining beacon on a hill it once was. There's much housecleaning to be done before that can ever happen.

The first 9 comments are reposts of some of the more relevant comments from the previous thread.

464 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   401 – 464 of 464
Tim said...

ju,

What leadership?

Anonymous said...

Ah Tim, you have reached my point so quickly.

Anonymous said...

Bereans,

We just watched Majesty online. Do these singers and musicians realize that by being a part of Bellevue's performance or by leading in the music in the services they are supporting the leadership of Bellevue.

Even if this was 100 percent the case (and it's not really), and what's the problem? Oh wait..I guess shame on them because they take a stand for what they believe in... only negative, anti-Bellevue people should have the opportunity to voice their thoughts.

People who watch assume that they are totally supportive of Steve Gaines and all that he stands for.

Go look up 'assume' in the dictionary and there's your problem right now.

If these performers stopped to think about what their participation means, perhaps the choir loft would have looked different tonight and perhaps a message would be sent to the leaders.

Your whole argument goes down the drain because you viewed the production online. Do you not think that Bellevue has a way to view website hits / how many people take advantage of their streaming video? Of course they do. So by contributing to their numbers, you now support Gaines. Congratulations.

You are so wrong on this issue and for the first time I have to agree with Tim. It's not about Bellevue here. It's about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and worshipping him. How dare you criticize people for doing just that.

Anonymous said...

Ju,

Aren't more of you finding it more and more difficult to submit to Gaines' leadership?

Nope, not really. God has placed Gaines in authority over us whether you like it or not. And because of that, I have no problem doing what God has commanded me to do. Would anyone like for me to post Scipture?

Anonymous said...

Ju & Tim,

One key to being a leader is to have honor. Steve Gaines and his crew have no honor if they are not doing anything about the pedophile. At this point, anything short of the resignation of every member of leadership is unacceptable.

Lynn

Anonymous said...

Koragg,

One key to being a leader is to have honor. Steve Gaines and his crew have no honor if they are not doing anything about the pedophile.

And how exactly are they not doing anything? Please expand on this statement because as far as I know you have no idea what actions Gaines is taking at the moment other than what was announced in this morning's service.

At this point, anything short of the resignation of every member of leadership is unacceptable.

Every member of leadership? You've got to be kidding me, right?

Anonymous said...

So the sermon this morning wasn't selfserving? What say you when the leader consistenly delivers messages desinged to qwell or limit damage from a problem about to come to light? You call that leadership? It's not and the Lord surely never meant us to submit to it. It doesn't matter what scripture you quote on this. You can no longer leave it all to the Lord when do you stand and take action?

Anonymous said...

Ace,

If Gaines has known for 6 months about the pedophile, and failed to report it to the authorities, he is breaking the law there. In essence, he's harboring a criminal.

ANd let me clarify my statement about resignations....I mean everyone in leadership who have known about the pedophile and failed to do anything.

Anonymous said...

Am I the only one who has problems with Memphismom02's 3:15pm comments? I really think this should be deleted.

Anonymous said...

Ju,

What say you when the leader consistenly delivers messages desinged to qwell or limit damage from a problem about to come to light? You call that leadership?

Perhaps you should try listening to a sermon without thinking about anything but the sermon and you'll get a good message. Stop thinking that everything is twisted around because you are filling your brain with all the lies. These sermons are planned out weeks, and even sometimes months in advance. So are you saying that Gaines decides his sermon on Friday based on what issues have come up? I'm pretty sure the sermon notes + stuff have to come back from the printers before then.......

It's not and the Lord surely never meant us to submit to it.

So what exactly did the Lord say? Submit to authority unless you don't like the person then forget about that command?

Anonymous said...

Crushed,

I have a problem with it too...

Anonymous said...

Koragg,

If Gaines has known for 6 months about the pedophile, and failed to report it to the authorities, he is breaking the law there. In essence, he's harboring a criminal.

Okay, let's see...how long have you know about this issue? A week or two? Or maybe even a few days?

Have you reported this to the authorities? If not, according to your logic then you are harboring a criminal too and just as guilty as Gaines.

Tim said...

Ace,

Have you ever seen Schiendler's List? The Diary of Anne Frank? The Hiding Place?

Were these people wrong to defy those that had been placed in authority over them?

Anonymous said...

You assume that I was anything but a sheep lead astray by the selection committee when I raised my hand in favor of Gaines as were thousands of other people the day that Chuck Taylor called the "vote". We all know by now that it was no "vote" the congregation has no real power at BBC. Do you think that if we had not raised our hands that he wouldn't be in the position now? The man was HIRED not divinely appointed. He was HIRED against his wishes apparently according to his own statements to Gardendale. You are obviously a better man/woman than I. I can NOT sit under his leadership since his integrity has fallen so far by the wayside. How can you NOT listen to his sermons and call the motives of the words into question. He's known about this latest issue for 6 months do you not think it possible that he planned the sermon in order to bring the "moral indiscretion" to light afterwards?

Anonymous said...

Tim,

Have you ever seen Schiendler's List? The Diary of Anne Frank? The Hiding Place?

No. No. No.

Were these people wrong to defy those that had been placed in authority over them?

I've never seen those movies so I can't comment on it, sorry

Anonymous said...

ace...
There is no scripture that places the pastor over the Lordship of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer. This is a horse that has been ridden to death with nothing but cliches, misapplication of scripture and a self-serving claim by a reverend to attempt to take God's position. A pastor is God's anointed one by sovereign appointment, not a claim by the person or a group who has elevated him. There are many examples in recent church history of these extremes. Think kool aid. Holy men in this dispensation do not claim power and position. Their calling is much higher. They are servants.

Anonymous said...

Oh not to mention that plenty of time passed before he brought the other issues before the congregation in a service. Plenty of time to plan a self-serving damage controlling sermon.

Anonymous said...

Ju,

The man was HIRED not divinely appointed.

So God didn't divinely appoint Gaines? I'm wondering how exactly you know this???

He was HIRED against his wishes apparently according to his own statements to Gardendale.

Maybe it was Gaines' plans to not accept the position at Bellevue but it wasn't in God's plans and finally Gaines submitted to God and accepted the call? Hmmm... Also - Gaines already apologized for his comments...did you not forgive him?

You are obviously a better man/woman than I.
Nope, not really

How can you NOT listen to his sermons and call the motives of the words into question.

I'm focusing on God and His word (the Bible) and not Steve Gaines...that's how.

Tim said...

JU,

Let's also look at the thelogical problem with having Mary publicly condemned and mostly likely stoned to death.

Joseph knew that she was innocent. He had been told by an angel in a dream what was going on. Why wasn't the dream elaborated on a little bit...hmmm. It might not have been beneficial.

Anonymous said...

Ju,

Oh not to mention that plenty of time passed before he brought the other issues before the congregation in a service. Plenty of time to plan a self-serving damage controlling sermon.

Think as you like...I guess it's just all part of the "conspiracy."

Anonymous said...

And another thing. It pains me near to death to think of the day that Dr. Rogers nealt down and washed this man's feet. Surely I'm not the only one that feels pain and anger at what he has done with the "mantle" that Dr. Rogers passed to him.

Anonymous said...

Bereans,

You have a right to your opinions which you freely share.

Thank you, as do you..

I've read some of your posts, however, I usually just scroll on by them. I've heard enough of your point of view from the pulpit.

This just proves that you are biased and ignoring the other side. :-)

I wouldn't expect you to agree with my views. However, I also have the freedom to express them. Sorry if that bothers you.

I don't agree with them but I didn't tell you not to post them. All I said was you were wrong with your post earlier and it's not about Bellevue/Gaines but glorifying God.

I'd rather not continue this dialogue with you. I have no interest in pointless debates.

Then don't respond to this post if you don't want to continue the conversation.

Anonymous said...

We can all agree that we must follow the Lord's leading, but it is hard to correct problems at BBC if loyal members "migrate" to other churches to wait out SGs tenure. Remember how God used Esther for "such a time as this", or how Joshua and Caleb stood firm when the other ten spies faltered? Remember the men of Issachar who "understood the times and knew what to do", and Job who said "though He slay me, yet will I trust Him?" Dear friends, our church is not about our comfort- it is about honoring the Lord God. Let's stay, pray, and make BBC better.

Finance Guy said...

bereans
However, I saw people in the program tonight who say they are miserable at Bellevue and who perform at other churches too.

My point was that I wonder if these people realize that when they perform, they are leading in worship and supporting the church program and leaders where they perform.


I want to carefully address this. I understand exactly what you are saying. My family was in the program tonight, and it makes me sick to think that what you are saying might be true...that by singing in the choir and leading in worship, I'm no different than the group of men who sent a check from the church coffers to the apostate church in the name of being ecumenical.

You should understand this is a big struggle for us. We've invested years here, built friendships and relationships, put down roots, have dreams for our children. Now we are faced with the possibility of having to give that up, and start over somewhere else. Not because we don't like the music, but purely in the name of integrity and protecting not only the spiritual health, but as we've learned today also the physical safety of our children!!!!

We know that we will be maligned and dismissed by our "friends" who stay. They will say things like "We needed to get all the malcontents and troublemakers out of here anyway". (BTW, I’m sure that when the rapture comes, there will be plenty of people at church the next Sunday glad that the “troublemakers” are gone.)

We’ve all heard how Dr. Gaines has spun the movement of former BBC staff over to GBC from the pulpit. What do you think is being said about the “refugees” behind closed doors? I’m sure it’s various incantations of “ good riddance”. It grieved me greatly when I read through the “committee book” that was passed out at the Cover-up/Communications Committee meetings, and see the names of people who are Committees for NEXT YEAR who are no longer attending Bellevue. People who are my friends. People who subtly accuse me of “consorting with the enemy” by remaining at Bellevue.

I can only speak for myself, but tonight, I decided that I was able to worship in spite of who was in the pulpit. It’s hard, but this entire mess over the past year has been the best thing for my walk with the Lord. It’s sent me back to Scripture, forced me to confront my own complacency and lack of integrity in certain areas, and to really ask myself the question of Why do I go to church?


Right now, I am not free to leave, and you must respect that. I’ve been in this situation at a church before, and I know when God gave my family the freedom to leave, and I don’t have it yet in this situation. I beg you to respect that, show a little mercy pray for us instead of judging us so harshly.

SallySherlock said...

Ace, you better not let Mark Daugharty catch you focusing on your Bible. We're not supposed to read our Bibles during church services anymore. We are supposed to read any applicable verses from the screens. If you don't believe me, please call. Dr. Spradlin tomorrow for clarification.

By the way, if you happen to be Mark D., did you ever consider how ridiculous it is to tell a theologian not to read his Bible in church?

Tim said...

JU,

Does it also seem just a little unbelievable that as news of this breaking story became evident the CC decided suddenly to cut their meetings short?

Especially when you consider that some of the members of the CC had definitive knowledge of the events before the rest of us. Sounds like we have a self-serving CC as well.

Anonymous said...

The man was HIRED. I don't believe he is God's annointed pastor for BBC. He is here to allow all of the sin in BBC to come to light. The Lord wouldn't put a man of God like Dr Rogers at BBC only to have it fall from grace like this. He would however put someone who based on his past needs to be broken and reborn. I do believe it was in God's plan that Gaines be here because there is much that needs to be done at BBC to bring it back under God's leadership as well as the humbling and teaching of a "pastor" who isn't ready to lead BBC long term.

Anonymous said...

I love my church,

Ace, you better not let Mark Daugharty catch you focusing on your Bible. We're not supposed to read our Bibles during church services anymore.

Mark has seen me read my Bible NUMEROUS times and has never said anything to me...your point has no validity to me.

westtnbarrister said...

Tim,

I asked the CC committee about this "moral failure" in writing and I am still awaiting a response.

I bet the questions were getting a bit too uncomfortable for them.

SallySherlock said...

Perhaps it has no validity to you, but do you support Mark Daugharty telling Dr. Spradlin he should read the verses off the screen instead of his Bible?


This is a real simple and straightforward question.

Anonymous said...

Ju,

The man was HIRED. I don't believe he is God's annointed pastor for BBC.

Dr. Rogers was hired. Does that mean he wasn't God's appointed Pastor for BBC at the time? Of course not. And thank you for changing your statement from saying he wasn't God's annointed pastor to saying you don't believe he is.

Finance Guy said...

ace said
.....and it's not about Bellevue/Gaines but glorifying God.

Ace,
If you really think that God is being glorified by everything that is and has been going on at Bellevue, you are either in denial or have some moral failing of your own that has affected your spiritual discernment. All the “evidence” that God is blessing Bellevue as presented by the church leadership also fails the test. Numbers are down. As many people (or more) are walking out the back door as are coming in the front. Giving is down. People are heavy hearted at church, unable to worship, suspicious of those they once called friends. Families are being split, disunity in the congregation at levels not seen in 40 years, constant revelations of “moral failures” on the part of leaders and members…

When is the leadership of this church going to realize (or at least admit) that the church is crumbling around them while they are busy running around yelling all is well?
My heart aches tonight

Anonymous said...

Ace do you think that it is good ,proper and scripitual to keep a child molester in a position of authority in this church as we have just witnessed? If you do please give the biblical principals to prove your case.
Remember the leadership has known about this for six months and let him remain in the ministry.Please enlighten and amaze us with your mastery of Biblical knowledge and wisdom as us ignorant peons need to be educated by you.
BTW thank you for getting David Coomes in touch with SNAP who proved beyond any doubt that the church leadership will LIE to try to protect a pedophile..

Anonymous said...

Ace,

As always these are my opinions. Of course I don't know the mind of God. I can however objectively view what is happening. What is your position on how SG has dealt with this latest issue? I believe you inferred that you would let us know earlier in this thread once all the facts were known.

Anonymous said...

I love my church,

Perhaps it has no validity to you, but do you support Mark Daugharty telling Dr. Spradlin he should read the verses off the screen instead of his Bible?

Do I support Mark telling Mike that? I don't neither support it nor am I against it because I never heard of this and I don't participate in gossip. When did this "supposedly" happen?

Tim said...

westtnbarrister,

And some of them knew that this was coming.

Look at the CC group. This is a large part of the problem. There is a group that is intent on "owning" the church, much as you would own a retail sales establishment or manufacturing business.

I believe that if this group would like to "own" a church that there is some prime property in the Collierville area that they could build one. They could take their "annointed" and his faithful companion.

Anonymous said...

ACE

How can you sit through a sermon that associates Mary with a pedophile and think of that as a word from God? I am SO glad I did not sit through the sermon -of course I did not because I knew what was coming. I would have wanted to shake my fist at the pulpit and cry out in protest! I will never listen to that man preach another load of ....rubbish.

I believe if Dr. Gaines had committed this heinous act he could have preached his way out of it - because so many gullible members sit and refuse to use the discernment God has given them. Instead, they wait to see what the pastor SAYS they should think.

I am so angry! My son has spent hours at the church after I have dropped him off, thinking it was a safe place full of loving ministers and staff. Sure, pedophiles can be anywhere, but to think my own PASTOR knew he was there and kept this from me is unforgivable! I am sorry for the pain that the Williams family is suffering - the humiliation. Certainly, God forgives. But had the pastor handled this immediately as DR. ROGERS WOULD HAVE, the family could have been spared all this!!!!


Gaines was seriously inept to believe the word of a pedophile, or expect him to police himself. The person who knows of the offense should protect those of us who don't know by removing him.

Gaines will bounce back. He's the comeback kid. The last time I felt like this about anyone was when Clinton was in office. But then I wasn't nearly as outraged!!!!

SallySherlock said...

Ace,

It is't gossip. Dr. Spradlin told me about it personally. I don't know the date, but it happened since Steve Gaines arrived.

I suggest anyone interested in this should contact Dr. Spradlin and ask him for yourself. Seek answers and you will find them.

Finance Guy said...

i love my chuch
Be careful. Ace only responds to your questions when he thinks he can misdirect the topic. You are in danger of being sucked into a distraction. Give it up. We all know there is no love lost between Mike Spradlin and anyone in leadership at BBC today.

(Wishing MS had replaced Dr. Rogers.)

Anonymous said...

Trucker,

Until you apologize for putting words in my mouth and quoting me for saying things I never said the other day and for mistreated me I am not addressing you or your posts, which includes your questions directed towards me.

To me at this point you have lost all your credibility because you sunk so low in trying to prove a point of yours because you only care about yourself and being right and you will stoop to new lows to attempt to accomplish that.

So don't expect a reply from me to your questions until you grow up.

Anonymous said...

He may well yet replace Dr Rogers. May the Gaines regime be a blemish soon forgotten.

Anonymous said...

Piglet,

How can you sit through a sermon that associates Mary with a pedophile and think of that as a word from God?

So you didn't like the sermon and thought it was self-serving?

I am SO glad I did not sit through the sermon

Oh - my bad..you didn't hear hear the sermon. There goes your credibility out the window.

Anonymous said...

He is listed as the "interim" pastor at GBC.

Anonymous said...

I love my church,

It is't gossip. Dr. Spradlin told me about it personally.

It's gossip to me because Dr. Spradlin didn't tell me that so as far as I am concerned I know nothing of that event.

I don't know the date, but it happened since Steve Gaines arrived.

When did Dr. Spradlin tell you about this story? Do you know if it even happened recently? Would you be so kind as to kind that out for me? It would be much appreciated.

Anonymous said...

FinaceGuy,

Be careful. Ace only responds to your questions when he thinks he can misdirect the topic.

Ha, yeah right. I try to respond to everything directed towards me. If I miss something then I apologize...it's hard to respond to everything when it's like we are always playing "20 people vs. Ace" - if you don't get a reply from me on these forums, email me... acefromthebbcforum@yahoo.com - I reply to all emails before the end of each day.

(Wishing MS had replaced Dr. Rogers.)

You've got to be kidding me. Mark Sharpe as Dr. Rogers' successor? I could go on about that with a long post but I'll refrain from doing that.

Anonymous said...

Your just adding fuel to the fire that you are here to try to misdirect people. You know very well that MS doesn't refer to Mark Sharpe. Mike Spradlin.

SallySherlock said...

Ace,

It would just be "gossip" to you, so I suggest you call him.

You guys believe what you want to believe. You refuse to seek the truth, which says all we need to know about you and your leadership.

SallySherlock said...

Ace,

Several posters asked you to make a biblical case for allowing a child molester to be in ministry at Bellevue. I've noticed you conveniently ignored those posts.

Anonymous said...

Ju,

Your just adding fuel to the fire that you are here to try to misdirect people. You know very well that MS doesn't refer to Mark Sharpe. Mike Spradlin.

I promise you that was an honest mistake. I was honestly wondering what was going through your mind when you posted that....usually when I see someone post 'MS' they are referring to Mark...sorry about that. I did not know "very well."....

I agree that Mike is an excellent preacher...

Tim said...

Ace,

I believe that he meant Mike Spradlin, of course Mark Sharpe would have been far better than Steve Gaines.

Mark Sharpe has more integrity in his little finger-nail than Steve Gaines has in his entire group of self-serving ego maniacs.

By the way where others may be hesitant to say so, I am not. Steve Gaines is not annointed of God. If you believe that he is, then could you please tell me when it was that he was annointed? Where you there when it happened? Did God do it himself or did he send an angel like Gabriel? Maybe he sent Elijah?

Oh..I forgot...you weren't there...you didn't see it happen...so you really don't have a clue do you.

Anonymous said...

I love my church,

Several posters asked you to make a biblical case for allowing a child molester to be in ministry at Bellevue. I've noticed you conveniently ignored those posts.

Why don't you read all my posts? I have already address my thoughts concerning this issue and I don't have to post a Biblical case for this. I believe that consequences are due if the allegations are true. Go use the search feature on your internet browser and you will see my posts that back up that statement.

allofgrace said...

Well there should also be some consequences for those who've know about this and waited 6 mos to do something about it.

Anonymous said...

Ace,

If if if. When will you stop hedging your bets? Don't you think that when someone admits to a "moral indiscretion" and the pastor brings it before the congregation it would be well past time to use if in conjunction with that situation? It is as you so often ask a FACT. Face the facts and elaborate on what those consequences should be.

Anonymous said...

David Matlock (Phil 4:13)

Loved your last post!!!!!


Finance guy -

I really feel for you and do not judge you at all. We all are in a difficult place. It would be really cool, though, if nobody showed up to be in the choir. I'd love to hear a spin on THAT!

Oh, ACE

I am just MORTIFIED that I have lost credibility with you. Glad I'm not preachin' huh?

Anonymous said...

ace the real reason you won't answer my question is because you can't. There is no biblical basis to support your position and you know it. You are also a coward because you are not man enough to admit that you are wrong.You sir are a hypocrite for telling Ilove my church that he was gossiping then turn around and ask for more info about the so called gossip.
How does it feel to be SG's water carrier? Keep up the good work maybe SG will let you share an office with a molester.
BTW you wern't misquoted the other night.

Anonymous said...

Trucker said:
have the same lack of morals.Ace, HISSERVENT ,CALCOATE,MAYBEJUSTMAYBE,MEMPHIS,

Trucker, if you have an issue with me my email is posted. How dare YOU question my morals when you have no idea who I am or what I stand for. Emaim me if you want.

Anonymous said...

Financeguy,

It's difficult for me to leave my church home at BBC. My family and I have prayed over this for many months and have observed the goings on at BBC. The way that today's events concerning the rape of a child and the continued employment/support/holding a job open for PW has forced us to realise that BBC doesn't have the quality of leadership that is needed for my family. Recently discovering the deciet of Mr. Whitmire's 'retirement' sealed the decision.

My family and I have been members of BBC for many years, we've taught classes,we've served on with the car care ministry, as ushers, nursury workers, organized trips and the list goes on . . . we don't look at us leaving BBC because of the current leadership's lack of ethics/morals as a bad thing - yes, we have solid roots at BBC, we have friends and family there but we no longer feel that we are being called to continue to support the leadership of BBC. We do continue to feel called to assist in God's worship.

We consider the current affairs (no pun intended) at BBC something that Paul would have written a letter to address during the days of his life. Staying for what ever reasons that you have is fine as long as you feel that the Lord has a reason for you to be there, but don't do something because it is easier to do than something else - don't become a pillar of salt. The leadership currently has been trying to take the easy way and try to explain away bad decision - it's gotten old.

An adultier is still on staff, a child rapist is still on staff (he's not been released) but yet someone that put 35 years into the service of our church was released.

New BBC Open Forum said...

crushed wrote:

"Am I the only one who has problems with Memphismom02's 3:15pm comments? I really think this should be deleted."

I did, and I did. I checked the "delete forever" box without thinking and couldn't stop it in time, but I did delete it. I didn't see that comment earlier. Thanks.

Please leave the family out of this!

NBBCOF

Anonymous said...

Those of you that continue to defend Gaines, I commend you. I was the same way when I first read/learned about opposition to Gaines' ministry. I was certain of Gaines' creditability & ethics; how else could have the search group have selected him?

Events have unfolded, decisions made by the BBC leadership were poor. I do expect my pastor to behave a certain way when it comes to the church. Intergity is something that I see is lacking in the BBC leadership.

I've spoken with many friends and family members at BBC. The actions by the leadership are causing sever strains on many believers and causing many to question what is going on at BBC. A lifetime of Christian learning is being tested - there comes a time when you must act as God has moved you and not as your emotions move you.

Emotionally, I want to stay at BBC, I don't want there to be any problems or issues. I want there to be sunshine and good feelings the whole time - but it's not that way. I don't know what God is doing; He's not told me. I do know that I no longer feel the need to assist Gaines' in his defense nor in his ministry.

Make sure that your defense of Gaines' is not an emotional defense but a defense and service that you feel God has moved you to act upon. If you feel that God has moved you to support Gaines then ensure that your words and actions reflect God in you.

My initial defense was a gut reaction - a natural defense of my pastor. After prayer and time (months) to reflect and read I realise the error of my ways and the error of the BBC leadership. Make sure that you are acting in a way that brings glory to God and not to a man.

Finance Guy said...

Ace,
Of course I meant Mike Spradlin.

New BBC Open Forum said...

OKAY, NBBCOF IS REEEEALLY JUMPING UP AND DOWN NOW!!!

YOUR ATTENTION, PLEASE!!!

PLEASE TIE A KNOT IN THIS ONE AND MOVE TO THE NEXT THREAD TO CONTINUE!

Thank you,

NBBCOF

Anonymous said...

The truth is the offense was to his own son and not to others. This is also something that happen 17 years ago. I stress 17 years. It was wrong. It was evil and it should be handle with God's grace. Yes, grace not wrath. The truth must be reveal gracefully and must be 100% true.

But what if you were entrusted with a dark secret and then to realize it is a very trusted person in your organization. I would first investigate myself the real truth and confront the person being accuse. but how easy is that to do. It's not easy.

So many people at Bellevue are ready to hang a person. But would you be able to approach your trusted coworker and tell him that he has been accuse of wrong doing.

Ah, you may say yes now. But no, the truth is that it will not be easy. i feel ashamed to be part of bellevue now. I forgiven the racism i have to endure from some older deacons and members..even members as young as me from Sunday to Sunday. But i will not stand for the the stupid behavior i have witness lately from members.

Change will happen. The old thoughts and ways must bow down and welcome the new ones. It has happen before. This isn't the first time. Times change and so does the church.

But then again great powers have fallen hard. And Bellevue had a bad rep since I moved here 7 years ago before the new pastor and it's only getting worse as the years go by. If bellevue falls, it's not because of it's leader(s)...but because of it's people.

Yes, the members them selves will burn their beloved temple down. Why, because of their gossip racist greedy and unchanging ways.

You that have not sin cast the first stone. go ahead Bellevue members keep throwing the stones. Keep throwing the stones you been throwing for years...because your way is better. Because your church is better then others...because your views are all right and all others are wrong. Cast it. You know you can't stop. Even Jesus asked you to be truthful and honest with yourself, but all you do is hide behind your deeds and your building...believing that is enough to justify you to cast the stones of hate.

I don't feel ashamed anymore. I feel sad for you. I forgive you. Hopefully, you will find peace in your hate and rage, by blaming your problems on one person. When in fact you are at fault. Who will bring forth the members that knew 17 years ago about the abuse. And the leaders that saw the signs. Blame those people. Those are the people that have put your children in danger and your grand children now. Those are the people to ask questions to. But they are cowards, like they were 17 years ago.

You know who you are. I hope you get what you deserve.

Anonymous said...

The truth is the offense was to his own son and not to others. This is also something that happen 17 years ago. I stress 17 years. It was wrong. It was evil and it should be handle with God's grace. Yes, grace not wrath. The truth must be reveal gracefully and must be 100% true.

But what if you were entrusted with a dark secret and then to realize it is a very trusted person in your organization. I would first investigate myself the real truth and confront the person being accuse. but how easy is that to do. It's not easy.

So many people at Bellevue are ready to hang a person. But would you be able to approach your trusted coworker and tell him that he has been accuse of wrong doing.

Ah, you may say yes now. But no, the truth is that it will not be easy. i feel ashamed to be part of bellevue now. I forgiven the racism i have to endure from some older deacons and members..even members as young as me from Sunday to Sunday. But i will not stand for the the stupid behavior i have witness lately from members.

Change will happen. The old thoughts and ways must bow down and welcome the new ones. It has happen before. This isn't the first time. Times change and so does the church.

But then again great powers have fallen hard. And Bellevue had a bad rep since I moved here 7 years ago before the new pastor and it's only getting worse as the years go by. If bellevue falls, it's not because of it's leader(s)...but because of it's people.

Yes, the members them selves will burn their beloved temple down. Why, because of their gossip racist greedy and unchanging ways.

You that have not sin cast the first stone. go ahead Bellevue members keep throwing the stones. Keep throwing the stones you been throwing for years...because your way is better. Because your church is better then others...because your views are all right and all others are wrong. Cast it. You know you can't stop. Even Jesus asked you to be truthful and honest with yourself, but all you do is hide behind your deeds and your building...believing that is enough to justify you to cast the stones of hate.

I don't feel ashamed anymore. I feel sad for you. I forgive you. Hopefully, you will find peace in your hate and rage, by blaming your problems on one person. When in fact you are at fault. Who will bring forth the members that knew 17 years ago about the abuse. And the leaders that saw the signs. Blame those people. Those are the people that have put your children in danger and your grand children now. Those are the people to ask questions to. But they are cowards, like they were 17 years ago.

You know who you are. I hope you get what you deserve.

Anonymous said...

What is this about a deacon or adminstrative staff member purchasing alcohol as a gift or in a restaraunt????

Was this person reprimanded or dealt
with in anyway? In all seriousness what is the churches stance on this? I thought it was no alcohol?

Could someone please fill me in with specific details? I want to address this with church staff. This is a huge problem for me, and one of the reasons we opteo not to attend other churches, the open liberal attitude about wine, etc. My eamil address is pharmresume@aol.com
Thank you for letting me knw the facts/

Also did PW abuse someone else recently? Why did he come forward in June after all these years and why now?

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