WCRV Radio (AM 640) is scheduled to interview Dr. Michael Spradlin, President of MABTS, at 3:00 p.m. today. We've been informed the interview will not be streamed live over the internet, so you must listen to it on the radio. The show is scheduled to be rebroadcast Saturday at 7:00 a.m., 6:30 p.m., and Sunday at 2:00 p.m.
The latest from Christian Worldview Network is here.
This blogger, wbishop1213, has a couple of interesting entries here. See December 23rd and 26th.
Mondaymorninginsight.com has articles here and here.
This is a recap of this past week's coverage:
The last three Commercial Appeal articles are here. Letters to the editor appeared on the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd and are available through links on this page.
Channel 3's coverage is here and here.
Channel 5's coverage is here, here, here, here, and here.
FOX Channel 13's coverage is here and has links to other stories and the Wednesday night statement in the sidebar.
Channel 24 made this brief mention of the story.
The Baptist Blogger wrote a nice article about Mrs. Joyce Rogers here.
EthicsDaily.com has articles here, here, and here.
Several Bellevue threads are going in the baptistlife.com "SBC News and Trends" section.
The December 19th Associated Baptist Press article is here.
The Baptist Press article from December 20th is here.
The December 20th Agape Press article is here.
Blogger Wade Burleson has also written about Bellevue.
Another article is here.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
130 comments:
Andrew said...
The Mike Spradlin interview will not be available on the internet. It will only be available live on WCRV AM 640.
The internet feed will be Bott Network programming not the Spradlin interview.
Dick Bott's The Complete Story feature airs at 3PM on WCRV and will be streamed on the website at 2PM CST. Presumably, this is the Mike Spradlin interview.
I called WCRV again, and reconfirmed that the previously recorded interview with Dr. Spradlin will not be on the internet.
The interview will RE-AIR locally this coming Saturday at 7am, 6:30p and then Sunday at 2pm.
Hope this helps everyone who was attempting to hear it for themselves.
Andrew
JU said:
This is not an attack on you please realize that. I don't read into anything he said I don't assume anything other than the spoken words. As Josh Manning so often has said here words mean things.
Main Entry: heart•felt
Pronunciation: 'härt-"felt
Function: adjective
: deeply felt : EARNEST
synonym see SINCERE
Main Entry: com•pas•sion
Pronunciation: k&m-'pa-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French or Late Latin; Anglo-French, from Late Latin compassion-, compassio, from compati to sympathize, from Latin com- + pati to bear, suffer -- more at PATIENT
: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it
synonym see PITY
Another way to say exactly what SG said according to Webster's Dictionary above is I acted out of Deeply Felt Pity. Don't you think as a Pastor if he had prayed on the matter he would say I prayed about it or the Lord led me to make decision x,y,z. What it says to my heart is that he didn't consult the Lord over the issue and this is why the problems are as great as they are.
Heartfelt is also a synonym also for devout, which has a meaning of Godly (thesaurus.reference.com) A synonym for compassion is also mercy (thesaurus.reference.com) So Another way to say exactly what SG said according to Thesaurus .refernce.com is I acted out of Godly mercy, which to me indicates a prayerful attitude. Is it not logical by your post that while one could have taken the phrase heartfelt compassion to mean deeply felt pity and another to mean Godly mercy? While you may have had that understanding, others could have had another???
This is also not an attack on JU.
Memphis,
I appreciate and respect your differing view on the situation. Two concerned individuals absolutely can see the same situation completely differently. I supposed that my point is that SG being the senior pastor should in my mind have been predisposed to tell us that he had prayed and been led to this decision rather than leave it to our imaginations or a dictionary as to his motives? Granted, as I've shown over several of my posts, I no longer afford the benefit of the doubt to SG. However, I do appreciate that many many still do.
4545,
What AMAZES me is the fact that you are so enamored with SG that you think he is a man of such integrity that he would never do such a thing. He has shown such a lack of character and integrity that NOTHING he does would surprise me.
As far as the ' internal' investigation, if it is anything like the " communications committee" what a joke THAT will be. Having a degree in Claims Law, I am well aware that the internal investigation is not the same as the LEGAL investigation. My concern, however, is that the 'communications committee' will spin it in such a way as to make the ' sheeple' believe that the press is just trying to make the church look bad. After seeing how they have already conducted themselves, I have no faith WHATSOEVER in the communications committee. I have already been told that there is nothing to all this, it's just the press.
Steve Gaines will do whatever it takes to wiggle out of the trouble he has himself in. Why, I bet he would even protect a pedofile if he needed to just to save his own skin. Oh wait, he already did that.
JU, I can understand how many canhear different things as well, and I am not saying that I am right or wrong, but as for me, I am still going to give our pastor the "benfit of the doubt".
And thank you for taking time to understnad my point instead of it turning into a back and forth debate on words.
Have a great New Years
Memphis,
Sigh.
FACT:
SG told the congregation that he had known about PW for 6 months.
FACT:
For 6 months, PW was allowed to keep his job, although he had committed heinous acts against his child.
FACT:
PW is on PAID leave while this is under investigation, although PW himself already admitted to being a pedofile.
Having said all that, can you help me to understand where there is room for the "doubt" you describe?
Happy New Years to you as well Memphis.
Memphis and other SG defenders:
Are you prepared to give your tithe so that SG and PW can pay for a defense?
fedup, I was commenting on JU's post only. If you read JU's post, it was specifically with the phrase "heartfelt compassion", and SG not praying about his decision. Our exchange had nothing else in it.
Why are you so mad at everyone else, trying to start arguments about things when those things are not what we were even talking about?
fedup, my tithe is to God in obedience, not to BBC or SG.
And I know what your next post will be about how I am blind or drinking kool aid if I don't think SG has a hand in where all the money goes, etc....
memphis said:
I am still going to give our pastor the "benfit of the doubt".
fedup, my tithe is to God in obedience, not to BBC or SG.
*****
I might be wrong, but I'm thinkin that God doesn't want us to spend HIS money to defend pedofiles and the protector of pedofiles.
fedup, You know that line (although I spelled benefit wrong) was taken from an early post in order to make my point on that discussion between me and JU.
True, but if you want me to account where every penny I have ever tithed has gone....not able to do that either.
Fedup,
I can definitely understand your frustration with many here as I share the same frustration. However, I would humbly make this suggestion, maybe do what I've started doing with my posts. Today, I've opened my heart and mind to the fact that many of our brothers and sisters in Christ just don't see what we see and just don't agree with the facts as we see them. As discerning Christian adults I think maybe it's time to start a healing of our own right here on this blog by agreeing to disagree until either Law Enforcement files charges or the Church finishes it's investigation. No matter how hard I wish the Church would terminate PW it doesn't look like that will happen at least until the "investigation" is over. With a new year dawning maybe we could all agree to disagree until more Facts come out? Just a suggestion I'm not trying to impose my will just praying for peace.
I post this again cause the other thread ended. sorry blog lady
Billie, have a big'o drink of truth
(AoG, you'a love dis)
When you and I shall go up the celestial hills to the gates of Paradise, those last steps shall be of God as much as the first steps. And when we shall stand upon the golden streets and wear the white robe, I am sure we will not have a word to sing about free-will, or about self, but our cry shall be, “Unto Him that loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood”- unto Him be the glory forever. Men may hold what doctrine they like on earth, but they cannot hold any doctrine in heaven but that of free, rich, and Sovereign grace. The song was never yet divided, it never will be. There shall be no selfishness to mar its melody, but every heart shall send forth the same melodious notes of music, and every tongue shall mingle in the same undivided song, “Thou hast done it O Lord, Thou has done it”.
Charles Spurgeon quote from his sermon “HIGH DOCTRINE”; Sovereign Grace Sermons, Calvin Classics, Vol. 3, p. 26
ju,
Just wanted to say that I appreciate your comments on the board today, as you realize this issue is something even discerning Christians can disagree about. Some people on both sides have taken this to the extreme, calling one side ignorant or the other side hate-filled; but what we need are humble approaches like you have given.
ju,
I agree with graceupongrace - you've chose to agree to disagree with some on this blog, but you do it with such an accepting spirit. May we all follow your example. I've tried to do that, but sometimes my emotions get the better of me, huh memphis? :)
We will just have to wait until the legal investigation is over. This committee put together with David Coombs leading (why is he leading it - is getting paid by BBC yet? - I wouldn't do it for free!) will not have any wiggle room with the DA's office (I need to believe that so badly!). So we wait.....nd be nice to each other in the meantime. When all this is over, we still have to get along.
karen
I love that story Bott just said about Pastor Rogers. That was a REAL pastor.
I try to follow the info around here, but I don't have unlimited time to keep up- May I ask what the issues are about David Coombs? It this a matter of guilt by association or has he done something that I have missed reading about?
That was a great interview. It was very respectful, very informational, and very loving towards the great work of Pastor Rogers. It was just very nice and encouraging. =)
Karen, I promise I hold no resentment towards you! lol And I am glad that we can joke about it.
How wonderful it is to hear a REAL man of God!
I am out of state. Could someone please post a brief summary of today's radio interview?
Memphis said...
And I know what your next post will be about how I am blind or drinking kool aid if I don't think SG has a hand in where all the money goes, etc....
Memphis, Why do you think SG demands you give "undesignated"? He knows better (like the Government) where your money should go. It is not where the Holy Spirit leads you to SG. It is so he can decide were the money goes:
New Orleans Seminary - $75K
New Orleans Seminary - $250K
Downtown Methodist Church - $25K
just to name a couple...
Was it in the budget? Congregationally Approved?
What? Trust the Finance comittee? The ones by there own admission do not question anything assuming everyone else has prayed about it or looked into it.
Wake up! The theme at BBC is "well, we have the money". As long as someone has a thought and there is money there... let's do it. It is all about the appearance. How does it make SG look. Isn't this what everyone has been talking about for a long time. The timing of staff leaving...appearance. The timing of the PW revelation...appearance. These things are hidden b/c SG knows this makes him look bad. That is why numbers were so important to them...appearance! It is not what is right, but, how does it make me (SG) look.
By the way...
Does anyone know how much an Honorary Doctorate costs these days? Will $325K do it? Appearance!
bepatient,
Are you referring to my post? If so, he's the head of the committee doing the investigation of Paul Williams. He is the Administrative Pastor that is supposed to start on staff in January. Seems he's done a lot of speaking for BBC even though he's not yet on staff.
There was an issue about him buying alcohol in a restaurant for a family member last month, but I don't know any more "issues" with him, per se.
Comments, anyone?
karen
I was not able to hear the interview, but I sure hope they found a way to work something nice in about SG. If not, this interview will also be added to the list of offenses I am sure.
Dr Spradlin, lock the gates. The thugs are on their way over.
bbc refugee,
It's a FACT (stated so by Harry Smith at a Communications Committee meeting) that the Finace Committee did not pray over the decision to give the $25K to FUMC. They just wrote a check based on Steve Gaines request that they do so. They also stated they did not know FUMC had a female pastor - hello? She was all over the news in the days after the church burned. I just keep believing that the money BBC gave will be used only for feeding and/or clothing the homeless and not for advancing their beliefs in female pastors and acceptance of homosexuals. I can't do anything else, but believe God will use the BBC money to glorify Himself.
karen
I know who David Coombs is, I am actually know some members of his family. I am just referring to the fact that he tends to be lumped in with the others that everyone wants to resign. I was just curious if there was anything (I guess like the alcohol incident- which I think is totally overblown) that would individually give people a reason to doubt his abilities to be on staff or conduct the investigation.
bbc refugee,
Dr. Gaines was not even mentioned in the interview, nor Dr. Spradlin's call for his resignation. It was just a generic interview about MABTS and leadership.
bepatient,
The only thing I have a "problem" with is he's still not on staff and he's being called to act as though he is on staff. Just my personal preference, but I don't think there's a problem. Has he been lumped together with those asked to resign? I didn't know that.
karen
BBC Refugee,
They did not mention him by name, however they did give a good story about Dr Rogers and also the reason to be in the ministry - it is by God's call and not money or power or prestige. I am sure that there are those who will take offense just because it was Dr Spradlin talking and they probably either did not listen or listened with closed minds and hearts. I also know that there are those who listen to the Gaines sermons with the same attitude. However, most of us keep listening in hopes that Dr Gaines will bring forth an inspired message from scripture that will unite the body of Christ and follow the scriptural guidelines HE has set forth for us to follow.
We have learned that WCRV is rebroadcasting on Sat and Sun. per Andrew's kind help:
"The interview will RE-AIR locally this coming Saturday at 7am, 6:30p and then Sunday at 2pm"
I shall listen to it again.
The Friday before Steve and Brian Miller made their statement about Paul Williams, David Coombs told David Brown the issue with Paul Williams had only been known for a week and a half. David knows that was a lie. They had known since June. Others had known for MONTHS before June! So, Steve has appointed a liar to lead the investigation.
Bellevue that is the pitiful state of our leadership. It is poor across the board. They've lost their ability to make wise decisions. They are more concerned with filthy lucre, covering up SIN, power in the convention, Steve's TV deal, Donna's new ministry and book deal, and getting this past them so they can continue on unchallenged.
A friend said he has never seen a group of people work so hard to look so guilty in his life. I've got to agree.
gator jake, ed t,
Thanks to both of you for your Spurgeon quotes on your posts. I've always found Spurgeon's eloquent, but home-spun delivery of the great truths of scripture to be like a cool drink of water. edt, I agree 100% that making that an issue is ridiculous, so as for me, let's get back to the issues at hand.
The interview had some stories about Pastor Rogers and standing up for what is right and biblical no matter what it cost him. It also had Bott encouraging Spradling to continue to stand for the truth and what is right. They mentioned the problems in Memphis in general but no specifics. They also talked about the seminary and what they stand for. They talked about how important it was for the students to be called to preach as opposed to just wanting more information. And they talked about how it was that humility and sacrifice is taught there.
I like the story Bott told about Pastor Roger's early time at Bellevue. Not long after he came to Bellevue, during the turbulent times of segregation (Rosa Parks was mentioned), a black lady or black man was called to be baptised at Bellevue. When Pastor Rogers asked for those who agree and disagree speak up or raise their hands, one lady rose her hand to disagree. He could have ignored it but he said, (I'm paraphrasing) "All right. We'll put it to a vote then and if that's the way it's going to be, you just lost yourself a pastor."
I love that!! Wow.
Someone mentioned book deals... has anyone heard much about Dr. Gaines' new book coming out next month?
http://www.amazon.com/When-God-
Comes-Church-Experiencing/dp/0805443983/sr=8-
2/qid=1167344001/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103
-9332691-3503804?ie=UTF8&s=books
(You'll have to copy each line to make one link, as this blog cuts off long web addresses)
Another link about the book, from the publisher's website:
http://www.broadmanholman.com/whengo
dcomestochurch/
Now that is the integrity I'm longing for.
The above post was in response to HouseWife's last post
As an aside I will mention that my Wife and I are making our way through "Fool's Gold?: Discerning Truth in an Age of Error" by John MacArthur. It has opened our eye to some of these issues and where we as discerning Christians should fall on some of these issues. We're about halfway done.
I want to get that book but I keep forgetting to get it.
Please let me recommend a book you must read. It is, Redefining Christianity, by Bob DeWaay. You will have few questions after reading this book. It helped us out so much when we were going through what you are going through right now. Of course you won't find it in a Christian book store as they protect Rick Warren from his critics...they refuse to sell a book if it speaks ill of Rick Warren. Did you know that? So, you will have to go online to order it from Bob DeWaay's ministry. Just type in his name in google and you will find him in many places. He is a great Christian minister who discerns clearly.
Ima,
I have to take issue with your book store statement. The book I cited in my previous post was from Lifeway and it has an entire chapter refuting Rick Warren.
Yeah, I had heard about that. I haven't been to those "Christian" stores since. It's a shame.
ju, that's interesting. How long ago did you buy Fool's Gold and which store specifically? Also, what did you pay for it? Thanks. =)
Gaines' New Book
you can find many of John McArthur's articles concerning those subjects on Grace to You's website..gty.org.
First, let me say a huge "bless you" to JU, as well as to karen and memphis and others who have demonstrated such a Christ-like spirit on this blog today. I think "agreeing to disagree" until all the truth comes out is an inspired idea, and will go a long way toward fostering the healing we all know the Lord desires for us as a fellowship.
Now, may I "agree to disagree" with ilovemychurch just a bit?
David Coombs told David Brown the issue with Paul Williams had only been known for a week and a half. David knows that was a lie. They had known since June. Others had known for MONTHS before June! So, Steve has appointed a liar to lead the investigation.
I don't know David Coombs except by sight, so I cannot speak to anything about his character other than what I've read on this blog. However, I've done a little investigation on my own regarding who knew what when, and Bro. Steve was the one who knew in June. The rest of the staff only knew for a week and a half, as was reported to the congregation and to David Brown. This is only to address this one statement by ILMC, not to trigger anything else ... please?
And I respectfully acknowledge that everyone doesn't agree with me, nor do I have a huge problem with that.
Happy New Year, everyone.
maybejustmaybe,
I promise you have been misinformed. Paul Williams was forced to go to Steve by others on staff. I know what I am talking about. Just how many others there were I cannot say. Some did in fact know before Steve.
ILMC -- do you know who the staff member was who knew 17 years ago? Not asking you to reveal -- just wondering if you know.
John MacArthur is my favorite! No offense to Pastor Rogers, whom I loved and whose sermons I miss. I know they were taped, but you know what I mean. I just think that MacArthur had/have different styles.
God used both of these preachers to greatly bless my husband and myself!! I am infinately greatful for their ministries.
One of my sweetest memories of our courtship were when my now-husband and I would drive around at night (we used to like looking at mansions and other beautiful sights back home) and listen to John MacArthur tapes in the car. Even after we were newlyweds in a strange town, a million miles away from home, we would just listen to MacArthur tapes over and over. There is so much to learn from him. =)
Yes, I know one of them.
Housewife,
I bought it just 3 days ago at the Lifeway store by Circuit City at WolfChase. Sorry I've no idea about what that center is called.
Oops sorry it was 15$. I'm sure you could get it really cheap used on amazon though.
Ok. I know where that is. How much was it? Thanks.
I love my church,
Is there any way you could email me with some more specifics? Your posts over the last day or two have been interesting and quite pointed. My email address is in my profile.
Thank You
Yeah, I was thinking ebay. =)
From the Publishers Site-Steve Gaines' New Book
"When God Comes to Church: Experiencing the Fullness of His Presence in Worship
Book Description
With so much attention given to the presentation aspect of modern worship services, is it possible that many people attending church today forget to focus on the primary purpose of actually being in God's presence? Pastor Steve Gaines and coauthor Dean Merrill (Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire) fear this is the case and call for a return to the core point of corporate worship in When God Comes to Church.
The goal here is to "send people out the door saying not `What a sermon!' or `What great music!' but rather `What a Savior!' . . . the only `Wow!' in a church should be God." (emphasis mine)
With that in mind, Gaines and Merrill write thoroughly about what attracts God to our worship gatherings--sincere prayer, repentance, unity, etc.--and warn against the worldly hindrances to pure worship such as legalism, liberalism, and fanaticism."
-----------------
The above seems inconsistent with our current experience...
ju...said,"Ima, I have to take issue with your book store statement. The book I cited in my previous post was from Lifeway and it has an entire chapter refuting Rick Warren. "
And as well you should. I apologize for not having been more clear. John MacArthut is a well know author and one I admire very much. His books are in most all book stores. One I have and cannot recommend strongly enough is Ashamed of the Gospel. However, others like the one I mentioned that are totally given to the subject of Rick Warren and the Church Growth Movements such as the Purpose Driven Life are not allowed in the mainstream bookstores. In fact, I wrote a letter to Lifeway questioning why this book I mentioned by Bob DeWaay is not at lifeway. I stated it was mentioned on the front page of the Wall Street
Journal in connection with the article about the deacon who was voted out of his church because he was fighting the transitioning of his old established church and that if this book was good enough to appear there, looks like it should be on the shelves at Lifeway! I got a letter back from Jim Shull telling me that it was not allowed in Lifeway because he attacks Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Life! So...I am sorry I was not more explicit in my explanation to you. Forgiven? And again, Redefining Christianity is a wonderful book...it describes what is wrong with the church. I hope some of you will take the time to read it. This letter I got from Lifeway's Jim Shull also stated that Rick Warren has agreed to step up his wrath of God in the reprint of one of his books. It is about money folks. Pragmatism...whatever it takes. Nickels and noses. Marketing. Etc.
Man I can see two out of three from that last line clearly.
truthsleuth,
I have to agree.
Ima,
Ok, I don't spend nearly enough time in the Lifeway store so I wasn't aware that something like that was taking place. I believe you. I will say that the Fool's Gold does refute RW but it does so very gently making sure to be well balanced about the good vs the bad in his books.
Finally including the wrath of God in a book rings a little hollow after the fact...does he really believe in it?...or is it just another marketing ploy...how shameful that God's word..the whole counsel of God is prostituted in such a way.
If preachers and teachers would be more "text driven" instead of "purpose driven" there'd be no need to add to it...it would be inherent.
hw,
Don't let Bille hear you talking abouth that Calvinist heretic MacArthur...!
So be it. I remember there was a conference here at Bellevue where different pastor met, including MacArthur and he pretty mush mopped the floor with them when it came to knowledge of the word of God. I don't know if Pastor Rogers was one of the pastor "debating". He may have been a host rather than on the panel.
housewife,
Was that the "Let the Fire Fall" conference several years ago?
I don't remember the name. But I'd like to see it if it's on tape!
BTW, speaking of books to ban for the bookstore, it's amazing that they ban great books which speak against Warren and keep one from Joyce Meyer, etc.
The conference I'm thinking of was back in the 90's...McArthur was there, John Phillips, Steven Olford...several others...the night I attended McArthur spoke...what a wealth of knowledge of the Word!
aog...
I hear you! I read in Warren's email to all his network of purpose driven pastors that he sent out right before his Purpose of Christmas (gag) that he plans to start rewriting The Purpose Driven Church in January. I thought to myself, well...here is the rewrite Jim Shull mentioned. He went on to say that the first Purpose Driven Church was specifically intended for pastors and this one will be specifically for the Christians. I wondered to myself, wonder what happened to the seekers? I guess that will be next. More books...more money. Right?
Yes, it was in the 90s. I remember the timing fits.
housewife,
What good books are at Lifeway you have to dig for..through all the Joyce Myer, PD and other junk books.
I don't know anymore. John MacArthur books and such are the ones I look for. But the prices are usually too expensive or I can find a better deal online.
I am a sucker for the Left Behind books too.
When Lifeway was still Baptist Bookstore...you could find a wealth of good books...not so now..the theology section is the skimpiest section in the store...really sad.
I have an extensive private library too, so I don't have to buy too many books.
Christian Book Distributors is a good resource for books..either by catalog on online
Yeah, I noticed. I pass all of the music sections and "make me feel better today" books. Sometimes I'll need a specific Bible for a gift or something. I will look through all of the pretty little trinkets but I won't buy any of them. They are WAY too expensive.
I use CBD sometimes. My husband and I used to LOVE going to the Goodwill on Chelsea way back when it was still open. They used to have books for a quarter or even a dime (sales). I guess there wasn't a very bid market for books in that area. We used to take like $5 or $10 dollars and buy all kinds of great books on all kinds of subjects. I wish we could still get books like that.
Burke's Books is a good place for used books..there's a mix of secular and Christian books, but you can find some rare gems there sometimes...some that have been long out of print.
Where is that place?
While we're on the topic of books, I just ran across this page on Solid Ground Books which has dozens of good books that have been marked down majorly through the end of the year.
It used to be in midtown...union or poplar..that is if it's still around..but I think it is.
graceupongrace,
Yes I'm familiar with them...stillwaters books is good also...as well as banner of truth.
Stores like Lifeway and Family Christian stores are too commercialized..they're gonna carry what the masses are hollering for.
MJM: Unless you have spoken to David Coombs or you are David Coombs, you do not know what he said. I do. You have not spoken to me either. And you have the facts wrong as to what he told me. I would say your "investigation" is flawed. You failed to memtion that I called David back and I asked David if he was speaking in an official capacity for Dr. Gaines and he told me he was. So once again what you have "assumed" facts that are wrong. Do you think that the "official" spokesperson for Dr. Gaines would not have the correct information? Come on, I did not fall off a turnip truck.
Next time contact me directly and I will tell you what he said. My name and email adddress has been out there all along. Please don't speak for me. I am very capable of doing that myself.
My apologies, Mr. Brown. You can certainly speak for yourself. I was under the impression that what I posted was exactly what you had said. I would respectfully request that NBBCOF go back and delete that entire post, then ... I do not have a trash can.
However, I stand by the sources with whom I've spoken, as I'm sure you stand by yours. I'm trying to stay civil, and would appreciate your efforts, as well. Thanks.
blessmewiththetruth said...
=THERE IS NO WIGGLE ROOM FOR SG
6:28 PM, December 28, 2006
ILOVEMYCHURCH,
Correct me if i am wrong, but didn't David Coombs say, in church that sunday morning when it was announced, that SG had only known for a week and a half to two weeks?
It was only when SG stood to speak that HE said he had known since June.
Seems I remember some kind of contracdiction in the statements of the two men.
I found an interesting book at Barnes & Noble the other day that I am currently reading. Its titled "Blue Like Jazz: Nonreligious Thoughts on Christian Spirituality". Its by a guy named Donald Miller. Basically, its a book that tells the story of his journey from almost losing his faith and how he turned it around. Its a pretty good read. Don't look for a lot of scripture or inspiration. Its more of a narrative. Its still a good read though.
blessmewiththetruth said...
=THERE IS NO WIGGLE ROOM FOR SG
6:28 PM, December 28, 2006
SG Said he knew about it since JUNE
How can ANYONE let him wiggle on this?????????????
What more do you need to know??????
Does it not bother you that a child rapist was allowed to stay on staff and roam the halls of the church for SIX MONTHS????????
If this were a public school would you be so understanding and caring about the feelings of the molester, or upset that children were placed in DANGER???
bepatient wrote:
"I know who David Coombs is, I am actually know some members of his family. I am just referring to the fact that he tends to be lumped in with the others that everyone wants to resign. I was just curious if there was anything (I guess like the alcohol incident- which I think is totally overblown) that would individually give people a reason to doubt his abilities to be on staff or conduct the investigation."
What about this statement by his ex-sister-in-law? It would certainly make me think twice!
NASS
fedup wrote:
"Correct me if i am wrong, but didn't David Coombs say, in church that sunday morning when it was announced, that SG had only known for a week and a half to two weeks?"
David Coombs didn't speak that Sunday morning. Bryan Miller did. David Coombs spoke in the Wednesday night service that same week.
There's a new "grandma" letter on the front page in the previous topic if anyone's interested.
NBBCOF
Maybejustmaybe,
I talked with David Brown about one minute after his conversation with David Coombs. David Coombs told him they had only known for a week and a half. He was very clear about that. When David Brown called me he expressed relief because he had been under the impression the church had known about the molestation for months. He felt like a week and a half was still too long, but it was not as bad as he had feared. Of course now know they had known at least since June.
Later that same day David Brown called David Coombs again for clarification. David C. repeated they had only known for a week and a half. He also emphasized he was officially speaking for the pastor.
I loved Blue Like Jazz. But it's also one of the most frustrating books I've ever read. Just wanted to hurl it across the room a few times for lots of reasons but mainly that he just doesn't seem to take sin seriously enough. But I think Miller's definitely on to something about lots of evangelicals.
"6. Most people who are daily in the Word spot you as a sheep in wolves clothing. I say that it is obvious that you have not been following along with the Pastors of Bellevue Baptist Church neither Dr. Rogers or Dr. Gaines. "
Call me crazy here, but doesn't she mean wolf in sheep's clothing? :p
Alls i have to say about Granny is this:
PHOK
( pounding head on keyboard)
Folks once again I want to state our (SNAP's) position in this matter. We seek, demand total honesty and transparency when it comes to the matter of sexual child abuse. Nothing less or nothing more.
I have been asked many times if I wanted to see Dr. Gaines resign. I have always stated that it is not a concern of mine. That is a matter for the congregation of Bellevue to decide.
What I am against is not dealing properly when there is suspected abuse. And if my fellow Southern Baptists think that this is just a Catholic Church problem, you need to pull your heads out of the sand. Some of you like to do investigations. Then do this for me. Just google "Baptist sexual abuse." But let me warn you, it is very ugly and nasty. It is not something you are going to be happy about. This is not a Dr. Gaines issue but a real dark cloud that hangs over all of the SBC. And the people that are in position to do something about it are refusing just like our Catholic counterparts.
Want proof? Google another name then, "Christa Brown." Christa is a victim herself that has tried in vain for many years to get the SBC leadership to deal with this issue honestly and with transparency. All she ever gets is excuses, stonewalling and in some cases out right lies.
If you want a fight let me give you one. With in the last 3 months we have allegationss brought against 3 Baptist ministers in the Mid-South. Each and everyone of us should join together and demand that our children are safe. Is there anyone out there that disagrees with me on that one?
Let's join together and demand our local church leadership, the local association leadership and even the national leadership of the SBC do the right thing. We have a problem Is there anything wrong with that request?
As a product of the 60's I have learned that there is strength in numbers. Why do you think that Bellevue is held in such high regards?
MJM wants me to be civil. When it comes to this issue of protecting our children I am very passionate. I know what is like to be raped and abused repeatly. I am sorry but I can't be civil when it come to wanting to protect our children. Neither should you.
If anyone wants to know what I was told, just contact me. I have never hidden my name or email address. You don't have to do any investigations unless you are trying to discredit me and that will not work. The Cathoic Church tried that and they failed. I am however a sinner. But by the Grace of our Risen Savior I am forgiven.
Please lets ALL join together and demand the truth. We should not accept anything less when it comes to protect our children. Once again is there something wrong with that request?
Please google those two items I mentioned earlier.
I love you all. On both sides there are some very good Christian brothers and sisters. And I for one look forward to spending eternity with each of you. Please let's be in prayer.
Custos,
I agree with you about Blue Like Jazz. I found it captivating, but short on substance. Someone said Miller is bigger on feelings than reason. I believe that to be true. He makes astute observations about evangelicals, but he draws the wrong conclusions and offers the wrong solutions.
Bottom line: I liked it, but it is little more than the ramblings of a thoroughly post-modern mind.
WTB,
Did you get my email?
Hey AOG,
Nothing yet. Just checked both accounts.
WTB
WTB,
guess yahoo is gonna have to be renamed snail mail:)
Blue Like Jazz is a good read. Anyone for setting up a confessional somewhere in Bellevue?
In the Pastor's Office? :p
I included two entries regarding Bellevue in my post today, "Top Ten Church Scandals of 2006." I would welcome your readers to check it out.
jasonk,
Interesting post...bvd's in a wad over "changes"?..well, there's a wee bit more to it than that..but by your own words.."I don't know much about anything.." Interesting list nonetheless.
I just read "Grandma's" latest letter, or whatever you would call it. It sounds like she just sits down at the computer and just blurts out craziness right off the top of her head. I seriously don't understand her thinking. I would not want her speaking for me....like she is speaking for others....gives me the shivers....
'Blue Like Jazz' is a great read, if you're interested in moral relativism. If not, I'd recommend the Bible.
and now we have numerology in the mix...it's hard to even understand what she's trying to say.
Koragg said...
"6. Most people who are daily in the Word spot you as a sheep in wolves clothing
I had the same thought, but then i thought, maybe she means exactly what she says. Maybe her picture is that we are running around trying to act "tough", like we have fangs and want to hurt Bellevue (like the pre 12/21 MB), but at heart, we are just stupid little sheep who need to get back in the fold and stop bleating...baa baa baa.
I don't know, but I do get a grin out of reading her prose....or I would if it wasn't so sad and serious...
-FG...who can only bleat...Baa baa baaa!
The numerology reference bothered me too......
am I the only one who has the thought that for every day PW stays on "paid leave" and isn't brought up on the stage and publicly flogged like Dr. Rogers did J.G. for his horrendous sin against his son and the congregation, the ground under THE PASTOR gets slippier and slippier?
-FG, while he is a dumb little sheep, still does have some common sense
what's really scary is that many in the area are telling her she's right on track...now THAT is worrisome.
billie say:
7 is the perfect number for truth
Jake say:
7 is the perfect number for bartender to say "nough for you billie"
I almost want to call billie Cindy Sheehan, but then I thought, she's actually in the majority, so I think that NASS should take that moniker, as she is clearly (insert sarcasm here) in the "lunatic fringe".
--FG, who clearly needs some sleep!
I have a question, and it is just a question:
I have heard that Mrs. Rogers asked them to change the statement about PW before it was read. Does anyone know when she asked the statement to be amended?
I was actually surprised to hear that she knew what the statement said before it was read?
Thank you, finance guy, but no thanks! You boys need to be nice now. I did ask that the discussion be about ideas, not personalities -- tempting as that might be. Just... be nice, okay?
Sorry NASS,
There really isn't much to discuss about her letters....sadly, they really speak for themselves.
"Now the day is ooo'er, night is drawing nigh....."
Good night. See you guys after breakfast
I feel just like Ms.Billie. E-mail sent with massive addresses on it.
Who is Cindy Sheehan?
Cindy Lee Miller Sheehan (born July 10, 1957) is an American anti-Iraq War activist, whose son, Casey Sheehan, was killed during his service in Iraq. She attracted international attention in August 2005 for her extended demonstration at a peace camp outside President George W. Bush's Texas ranch.
Cindy Sheehan has been painted to be an opportunist. The other lady in question, however, needs our prayers.
telos wrote:
"Cindy Sheehan has been painted to be an opportunist. The other lady in question, however, needs our prayers."
I think they both do.
NASS,
Thanks
Rob Mullins' blog. Sounds like he's still looking for a good, paying job.
AOG:
Cindy Sheehan has even been photographed with Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez, who wants to destroy the U.S..
Memphis said...
I have a question, and it is just a question:
I have heard that Mrs. Rogers asked them to change the statement about PW before it was read. Does anyone know when she asked the statement to be amended?
I was actually surprised to hear that she knew what the statement said before it was read?
Memphis, I cannot say that she knew what statement was to be read exactly. Just that is was going to be discussed. Because of that, Mrs Rogers had asked specifically for them to announce the fact that per PW, Dr Rogers and Bob Sorrell had no knowledge of PW sin. Per Brian Miller, he acknowledged that her request was in the original statement, but SG had them take it out.
If they told her ahead of time and they did not testify to the truth, maybe they were trying to add to her pain. It is evident the "Leadership" has not regard for Dr Rogers or his family. Only to attempt to use them when it is convenient!
If you know the truth and have the ability to tell the truth and let others know the truth, why would you want to shade the truth or leave rumors to make people believe otherwise?. It is just more of what we come to expect from our new "leadership".
You see, these men have already USED the reputation of the teachers, deacons, and leadership at BBC. Since their is NO credibility left, they now have to try to invoke others good name. What SHAME!
Post a Comment