Here's some interesting information straight from Bellevue's website. I wonder if they know this is still there or if Steve Gaines has ever read it. As the person who brought this to my attention asked, "Will Bellevue follow her own advice?"
Following the invitation in both Sunday morning services on December 17th, Steve Gaines announced that Bryan Miller was going to read a prepared statement. This is that statement and a transcript of Steve Gaines' comments afterwards.
I would like to ask again that even though the minister's name has been revealed by Steve Gaines himself, no mention of the other Williams family's names be made in this forum.
1. How could Steve Gaines possibly think it's okay to cover this up for six months?
2. Whether anyone else knew about the situation at the time, why would Paul Williams "counsel" potential nursery workers who answered affirmatively to abuse in their own backgrounds? I've received correspondence from people in these situations who said he asked a lot of explicit and personal questions about the details of their abuse. He's asked other people in counseling for unrelated issues for details about their sex lives. For lack of a better word, that's just creepy!
3. What about the philandering board of directors member? Has he really been asked to step down? Has he been disciplined in any way? Will there be any mention of this situation in a worship service, too?
4. What about the "forcible rape" which occurred at the church that was reported to the Memphis police on 12/12/06? What really happened? Have extra security measures been implemented to protect everyone?
5. Why have members of a family, one of whom was reportedly caught stalking a young woman in the church while carrying a bag containing weapons, including a gun, and another "sneaking a peek" near the women's dressing rooms during a SCT performance, still allowed on church property? Were the authorities notified when these events occurred?
6. Why has the media been so quiet?
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280 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 280 of 280Billy,
I worked in the two year old area every Sunday for almost 18 years. I knew all of the teachers. The Paul that you are thinking of is NOT Paul Williams. I can't remeber ever seeing Paul Williams in the preschool area at all. Just wanted to clear that up.
I appreciate the thoughts. I do not worship Steve. I have always been taught to submit to the Pastors authority.....BUT I must say that I have never witnissed this kind of trouble in one of the churches I attended by the pastor. Anyway, what a mess. My kids are very involved in the youth and love being there. They don't understand and know what is going on. The youth group is good for them and I hate to pull them out.
Bothered,
Please email me. (Click my profile for access to my name and email address.)
I have an audio CD I'd like to send you re: youth groups, and Southern Baptist ones in particular. It was a message given by Dr. Voddie Baucham at a gathering of SB pastors. In my opinion, every parent at Bellevue and every church across the country needs to hear this message.
Can you tell me where else I can get it? I prefer not to email. Thanks though. I do want to hear it. I like Vaudi.
CH,
So, you are related to the staff member Deborah Houseal?
Was Paul WIlliams Bellevue`s Minister of Education at one time?
Did he work with the Homeschoolers?
Didn`t he serve on the Committees on Committees?
Wasn`t he the minister of Financial stewardship at one time?
Bothered,
If you're not willing to share your identity or even your email address, I don't think I'm too willing to share anything personal beyond what's in my profile. I'm perfectly willing to be open with who I am and what I believe, but only with others who are willing to do the same. Sorry.
Anyone else think bothered is Ace's buddy?
Stillwaters,
I believe the answer to the first three questions is "yes"... I have no idea on the last.
Guys,
we all know PW and the various roles he's had over the years. There's no need to rehash that, or speculate on what he might or might not have done.
The issue here is that the Pastor has known that he was a potential danger to the children at Bellevue, and DID NOTHING for over 6 months!!! By his own admission he just accepted him at his word that his problem was "in the past", and let him go on like nothing happened. Does he even realise that aside from the safety issue, the message this sends to the congregation?
I would say that Paul Willians being the minister of education and working with homeschoolers at Bellevue would be considered working with children and having a lot of access to them.
Wouldn`t you?
Birder,
Thank you very much for the info. Glad to know the,"Mr. Paul" that I know isn't Paul Williams.
Thanks again.
As a homeschool mom I know that Mr. Williams' office did have information on homeschool to those who were interested. I don't recall seeing him at homeschool things but those groups were mainly coordinated through the various departments: music department for the band, missions groups through the children's ministry or women's ministry, etc.
Don't know what all this titles were.
I also believe that ch is correct in his post at 3:16pm.
Financeguy
The church is trying to spin this by saying Paul Williams had nothing to do with the children at Bellevue.
I for one do not know all the roles he has had at Bellevue so I have been trying to educate myself.
There are a lot of people who are just going to believe what the pastor and leaders say so please bear with some of us who are not as learned as you are about Paul Williams roles at Bellevue.
The fact the he was involved with homeschoolers discounts what was said this past Sunday from what I can tell.
CH
That is fine. I am not who you say I am. BUT being that I am a well known person here in town, I will stay anonymous. I will find the tape of Vaudi you suggested I hear. Thanks for the information.
From the SavingBellevue website regarding covering up scandal:
When is it legitimate to withhold information on leadership sin?
It is legitimate to withhold information on leadership scandalous sin, when:
1. For a reasonable time period, where there is due process of church discipline by the relevant authorities.
2. To withhold the ‘gory details’ of sin and avoid pornographic voyeurism.
3. When the sin is not scandalous and one wants to avoid damaging the reputation of the leader.
4. When there is not yet sufficient evidence to prove the case in a church court.
5. The actual sin occurred long before the leader got into leadership and he has repented privately of it.
Obviously all of these do not apply. But there is a basis for why this may have been withheld. Perhaps none of these are applicable except #2, but since we do not know all the details there are certainly others that could be factors as well.
I have been watching this blog for the last few weeks and I am deeply sadden by what is transpiring at your church. I have been so impressed at the outpouring of Christian love and respect, but since the latest issue hit the love seems to have been overtaken with anger. And not righteous anger.
I understand and I would be angry too, but to lash out and talk about tar and feathering... now that is a little much. From my understanding of the issues here and those that were at GBC, it seems like there is more "dialog" on this forum and less actual activity. Has a meeting been arranged where all of you who are upset can get together and pray and seek God's direction in this matter? I know that GBC had a specific item to work on where as you all just got one. I would have thought that you all would have stormed the church office Friday when you heard about this sexual abuse issue. I know I would have!
What is the next step?
That is fine. I am not who you say I am.
Bothered, I haven't said at all who I think you are. I have no clue. That's the point.
Do try and find that message. I assure you it's worth your time!
As I've said before, I take issue with most of you who post anonymously. It's easy to speak when you only have a voice and no face; it costs little. How many of you are willing to really stand and be counted?
stillwaters
It was said that his office gave out information on homeschooling not that he was involved with the homeschoolers. That is a big difference. How does that discount what was said Sunday?
I am not defending anything here but saying that doesn't line up with the statements that have been made.
Someone asked questions about past ministerial duties of Paul Williams. I found an article on Bellevue's website that states that he was minister of prayer and financial stewardship.
(not sure how to post links yet...)
http://www.bellevue.org/templates/cusbellevue1103/details.asp?id=1360&PID=194899&Style=
Another one. Involvement with homeschooling
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:GAMUqP83_wgJ:www.mthea.org/mtheafiles/MTHEA_history.pdf+paul+williams+minister+Bellevue&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=6&ie=UTF-8
WatchingBellevue,
I assure you the tar and feathering talk was a much-needed comedic moment for the sake of blowing off steam in the midst of serious conversation.
With all due respect, if you are not a member of Bellevue, please refrain from commenting. If you are a brother or sister in Christ, we do covet your prayers on behalf of our church.
Suffice it to say, there have been multiple attempts at meetings over the course of the past 6+ months. The only meetings which have yielded any substantive results are the "information meetings" held by the pastor and administration at the end of services. And since the rest of us apparently "just fell off the cabbage truck", we weren't allowed to speak.
Church meetings where the truth is presented in its entirety and then dealt with scripturally? Those seem to be harder to schedule these days.
bothered said...
Can you tell me where else I can get it? I prefer not to email. Thanks though. I do want to hear it. I like Vaudi.
Bothered, Vaudi is part of the FIC (Family Integrated Church) movement. He believes that if you follow a biblical model that youth ministry is in fact wrong. His views are that by worshipping as a family unit youth have a better chanceto become closer in their daily walk.
Not surprisingly, he's pro-homeschool.
CH, I think what he meant by meetings, and this is how I understood it, was this, Has there been any organized meeting where the people on this blog have gathered together at the church to pray over these issues. I do not think he was saying meetings with leadership.
It is now public information for all to read.
http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5830492
Regarding Voddie Baucham's message which I mentioned earlier, it's available online in downloadable format for just $2.99 from his ministry's store site. The Centrality of the Home is the message I'm referring to. Click on "downloadable audio" and scroll to the bottom of the list.
Memphis,
I understand. Small-scale meetings between and among us have taken place at various times and locales. Due to the fact that most everyone here chooses to remain anonymous for one reason or another (CH emits an only mildly sympathetic *sigh*), face-to-face gatherings to strategize and plan a way forward have been lacking, unless I've just been out of the loop, which is entirely possible.
CH, you could hold a meeting and have paperbags at the doors for everyone to wear to maintain their secrecy!
(That is sarcasm and meant for the sole purpose of an attempt at being humorus, and I hate that I have to note this in the post to ensure someone not slamming me)
Memphis,
It's OK... you're in good company! Point well taken, and don't think some of us haven't thought of doing just that! We could draw crayon likenesses of ourselves on the outside and speak through kazoos to hide our voices.
(Being 6'3" and 275 lbs, I doubt a paper sack would hide me even if I wanted to remain anonymous!)
CH,
FWIW there have been meetings, an organization has been formed, and money is being raised. I'm not close enough to know the details. All I can tell you is a plan is in place.
Anyone who knows anything of this organization ILMC speaks of, please contact me. Thanks.
Sorry... back to that Voddie Baucham message. I just found it as a free download from his church's site:
Grace Family Baptist Church — Voddie Baucham: The Centrality of the Home
ch, your email is bouncing.
the thing that upsets me is that bellevue is losing its good name in the community. I had a friend who wanted to come visit bellevue and possibly join, but said today that with all of this stuff going on with SG and the matter brought up yesterday he will be looking elsewhere
anonymous,
That is sad, but when sin abounds in leadership, your friend is probably better off somewhere else.
Karen
Michael Reagan, conservative talk show host and adopted son of former President Ronald Reagan was molested by a camp counselor as a seven year old. His topic of conversation this evening will be of interest to all reading this blog. He is supposed to talk about a mega church in Memphis with a pedophile on staff. I am not sure what the local station is, but you can listen to him on internet at the address below.
http://www.reagan.newstalk1270.com/
Karen,
Good point. There are wonderful churches around Memphis with Godly pastors who love their sheep and don't beat them up. God is at work in a lot of local churches.
Does anyone know who the other staff and or lay leaders were in the meeting Steve Gaines mentions from 6 months ago?
What were these other men thinking? Just because Steve Gaines wants to ignore the problem of sin in the camp, are these other men just "yes" men who can't think for themselves?
If our leadership is this shallow, we need to clean house.
swtt,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I don't understand how Steve Gaines could run off a bunch of loyal folks, turn his back on long standing staff members, lie, cheat and steal and expect that to be okay. On what Biblical principle does he base his behavior?
Michael Reagan is talking about Bellevue right now.
Thank you for disgracing our church, Steve Gaines!
Karen,
No biblical priciple I know!
He is on right now speaking about Bellevue.
http://www.reagan.newstalk1270.com/
He is on live speaking about Bellevue on the Michael Reagan show and is taking callers.
http://www.reagan.newstalk1270.com/
Michael Reagan on national radio just mentioned Steve Gaines and Bellevue Baptist Church. This sickens me to think Steve Gaines by sitting on this story has brought shame on Bellevue Baptist Church. Steve Gaines by being more concerned in saving his own job just blew it.
anonymous
In response to your 6:42 post:
A lot of longtime loyal Bellevue members are also going elsewhere.
The ones on this blog love Bellevue enough and are willing to pay the price to repair the damage (whatever that takes) so God can, once again, be glorified, and we can invite our friends without shame.
Memphis,
Thank you, that was exactly what I was talking about. I am posting again to clear up the confusion of my meeting question. I know you all do not want to look like you are a bunch of complaing people (I DO NOT THINK THAT AT ALL!) I am saying that the others at Bellevue could say this if this forum is the only organized meeting place for those concerned.
I was just making a suggestion and a statement from a concerned brother.
Michael Reagan is taking callers now, but he is still addressing Bellevue? Did I miss it?
Don't worry if you missed it live. You can listen to it later on podcast (free) through ITunes.
yeah, like I have that! :)
Does anyone know where on an old-fashioned radio I could dial in Michael Reagan?
Watching Bellevue
Do you have a livingroom that seats a couple thousand people?
Karen-
Go to the link below and download the free software. Then go to "Podcasts" and enter "Reagan." Subscribe to it for free and you can listen to tonight's show later.
http://www.apple.com/itunes/
Perhaps savingbellevue.com can download and replay on the web for anyone to hear.
Question.. What does Joyce Rogers think or say about the condition of Bellevue or the issues at the moment. Does anyone know firsthand? Just wondering
psalm:
Thanks!!!!
After you download itunes for free go to the link below and click where it says "itunes click here" in the middle of the page. Itunes will automatically download the podcast into itunes when it is available. The podcast will probably be up later tonight.
I think the comments are around the 12th minute, third hour. It was ~ 7:12 Memphis time and I think he is on 6-9 eastern (5-8 central). So it will be the third hour of the broadcast. He may also have made comments earlier on the show. He seems to skip around to topics alot.
http://www.reagan.com/faq.php
There is a place for comments below the channel 5 article:
http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5830492
Does anyone know for certain what the view of Joyce Rogers is concerning all that is going on at Bellevue at this time? I have yet to hear anyone be able to answer this? Does anyone know?
Anybody else see this post under the channel 5 article (posts):
The problem that is starting arguments appears to be that the church is not REALLY saying what this man did. That leaves room for speculation, and is leading to arguments...THE MAN HURT TWO
CHILDREN. Fact!
WMCTV.COM Visitor:
See: http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5830492
Jesse,
She is understandably reluctant to speak. However here is what I know: Her daughter, Janice, is attending Germantown because of this. Steve Gaines changed the locks to prevent Dr. Rogers access to the office. Love Worth Finding employees have said she is opposed to Steve Gaines, as are most at LWF. One of Mrs. Rogers' best friends told me emphatically Mrs. Rogers is opposed to Steve. Many of her other friends are attending other churches. Take all of that and draw your own conclusion. I know what I think.
Bro. Jesse,
As a widow who should be allowed to grieve in peace, I think its best if the other men and women of the church handle this and leave Joyce R. out of it. She knows that anything she says or does will be scrutinized around the world. She is a woman of conviction. If God leads her to do something I'm sure that she will do it. But let's not break any confidences board even if you know something on this topic.
the question was simple. The answer is also. Yes or No. To be "melodramitic" or hypthothetical is not an answer. Speculation is not an answer. Your personal pain is understood. I only asked if anyone had firsthand knowledge of her view. Yes or No.
yes
TO "I Love My Church"..Thank you for a clear response.
Sadly, I would not be surprised if this man was a serial molester and there is much more to be found out about his activities. If there is anything we know about men who are attracted to young boys, they rarely just do it "once" and then stop doing it. I live in Jacksonville, Florida (member of FBC Jax) and here in our town Trinity Baptist Church, a very large independent Baptist church, has there own scandal involving a long-time, beloved minister who molested boys and girls for many years. He was found out back in the early 90's but he convinced everyone it was over and it was swept under the proverbial rug. Even the current pastor knew about it, and did nothing...except send him as a missionary to Germany where likely he molested more boys and girls. Thankfully he now sits in jail, but shamefully the pastor who knew about it and did nothing is still in the pulpit. So my point: be prepared for the worst, pray for the best.
For those who may have missed the Fox news report regarding our church, Mrs. Rogers and Bob Sorrell have both weighed in on the matter. They each contacted Fox News to confirm that Dr. Rogers never knew about the situation with Paul Williams. Of course we knew this in our hearts without any evidence other than the impeccable integrity of Dr. Rogers.
I believe this will help prevent the spin-doctors in our current leadership from trying to tarnish Dr. Rogers’ sterling name and legacy. Thank you Mrs. Rogers, and thank you Mr. Sorrell.
"Of course we knew this in our hearts without any evidence other than the impeccable integrity of Dr. Rogers."
While I agree with you that Dr. Rogers was a great man of God, please stop putting Dr. Rogers upon an unbelievably high pedestal. Dr. Rogers would be the first to admit that he did not have impeccable character - impeccable means, literally, "incapable of sin" - as he was guilty of sin just as Dr. Gaines is, and just as you and I are. There is only one man with impeccable character - and He is Jesus Christ!
Let’s see if we have the details correct. Bryan Miller is the President of ECS; he is the new Chairman of the Deacons at Bellevue, and apparently he is also the head of the Personnel Committee at Bellevue. He refers to child molestation, incest, and rape as “moral failure.” According to Steve Gaines’ comments on Sunday morning, Mr. Miller learned of the Paul Williams situation 2 weeks ago when Steve Gaines met with him (and three other leaders at BBC). The child molesting minister was allowed to continue his leadership position and responsibilities during this time. Now, he has been placed on an “administrative leave of absence” while an internal investigation is going on.
Am I missing something here?? Would he condone this behavior at ECS, as he has at Bellevue??
This is frightening….
One question that needs to be investigated. I don't know the answer, but have know that the problem existed.
Find out if Steve Gaines is continuing to receive advances on his payroll. Then find out why the funds would be needed in advance. You might find some answers to a few questions. It is something that I wondered about, but don't have the answers.
It is my understanding that the alleged rape and the situation with paul Williams are completely unrelated am I right? I am also under the impression that the stalking incident and rape are not related? Am I also right when the stalking incident and the situation that involved someone looking into the female dressing room are related? Is anything alleged to have happened at events such as I2 Memphis or Exit 15? I am a concerned Bellevue member that fears Bellevue is going in a bad direction.
inmemphis,
You are correct.
As far as i2, there are rumors and allegations floating around that i2 attendees have been caught in "compromising situations" committing consensual acts of "moral failure" in classrooms and restrooms. I believe some instances have been verified by others here, but I'll let them speak to that. True enough, funny things happen when you mix 18-29 year olds with dark lights and loud music.
Somehow this used to be understood? (And I'm no old fogey.)
"Dark lights"?? I meant a dark room...
Does Bellevue have a policy in terms of teen or even adult behavior that may lack morals? There was a situation over the summer involving two teens on a Wedesday night during the evening Worship service. The odd thing was a woman was in attendance with them most likely one of their moms. Once they arrived in the Sanctuary the two teens began to act in a way that was less than appropriate and could be said to be bad enough in private let alone in public. This behavior got worse and worse all through the service and this woman acted like nothing was going on. In fact while the woman would stand during the time of worship the two teens did not. This behavior went on during the entire service and while i was tempted to walk up and say something I chose not to which may have been good or it might have been bad. Many in the service gasped and turned around and gave weird looks. No one said anything or confronted theses people in any way. During the Invitation the woman stood while the two teens would not and during the middle of the invitation the woman uttered someting to the two teens and the two tens along with her left. I share this because I feel something about this seemed very strange.
Libertyinchrist,
You are exactly correct. Anyone with information about Paul Williams activities should not go to the church with them right now.
I am collecting information about Paul and it is amazing what I have learned in two days. Of course the stories I am hearing are not about molestation or I would have already forwarded them to district attorney, they are about his inappropriate conduct in counseling sessions. Anyone who believes he is completely over his problem is naive.
inmemphis
Approx 7-8 years ago, at the end of the Sunday morning service, Dr. Rogers asked all teenagers through college, as well as their parents to come back up the church at 4 pm that afternoon. I was just barely out of college, but within the age range that Dr. Rogers asked to attend, so I came up there at 4pm. At that meeting, in the worship center, Dr Rogers laid out a series of guidelines for behavior, and passed out a book. I know I still have it somewhere, because I came across it when I moved about 4 years ago.
Anyway, there were a some modesty guidelines concerning dress, with actual "skirt lengths" an such. As I recall, he admonished those present of dressing in a way that was distracting to the worship of others.
This was complete with Dr Rogers saying that the deacons were to enforce the guidlines, and if I remember there was a "1, 2 & 3" "strikes" It was pretty mild though...the harshest level was sitting down with you and a deacon or someone to explain things. I don't recall exactly what all the steps and "Guidelines" were exactly.
Suffice it to say, we've come a loooong way since then.
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