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- New BBC Open Forum
- This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church and the SBC can come to comment and exchange ideas. Anonymous comments are welcome, but it is respectfully requested that instead of choosing the "Anonymous" option those who want to post comments without logging in select a unique screen name. This lets everyone tell the difference between one anon and another without revealing any personal information. Under the box where you compose your comment where it says "Choose an identity," just check "Name/URL" and type in the screen name of your choice. You can leave the URL field blank. It would be helpful if you'd use the same screen name for any subsequent comments. This makes reading and following discussions easier, helps avoid confusion, and doesn't result in one person being credited for writing something s/he didn't. Comments by posters whose only purpose is to disrupt (i.e. trolls) will be subject to deletion. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
337 comments:
1 – 200 of 337 Newer› Newest»To Mark Sharpe,
I can not find words to express how thankful I am for your willingness to be present this past Sunday. Thank you so much for standing in the truth and refusing to compromise. May God richly bless you and your family. Your family as well are appreciated for their willingness to support you in this endeavor.
Thank You and again.
Tim
hisservant-1 and others like him remind me of some of our senators.
During an abortion debate one senator passed around pictures of dismembered aborted babies. The response was as it should have been - shock and disgust. BUT not at the cruelty of abortion-no, the liberal senators were shocked and disgusted that one of their peers would bring in such distasteful pictures.
I feel that Mark Sharpe and the rest of us (to smaller degree) have been treated this way.
Tim
About that marriage analogy - I know just what you mean ;)
Theme of the day at the last 2 meetings (which I attended) was "I don't know" At all cost divert and protect seemed to be the goal, not getting answers to the unanswered questions, changing the system and fixing a problem.
Unanswered questions from the next to the last meeting (does anyone know the answers):
1= When is the next business meeting (the bylaws mention a "monthly" business meeting and Yrly directors meeting)?
2= Can a member at BBC make a motion at the monthly business meeting?
Taking Back Lost Ground
Joyce and I decided we wanted some birds in our back yard, and our neighbors told us about purple Martins. We asked, “How do you catch the Martins?” They said, “You just have to create the right atmosphere, and they will come.” So we got the specific kind of bird house, put it up on a long pole; and now we have purple Martins. They nest in our yard because we have put out a welcome mat for them.
Many Christians have unwittingly given a place to the devil by creating an atmosphere where he feels at home. It’s as if they’ve put out a welcome mat for Satan.
But be encouraged; you are not a helpless victim. Satan can never take any ground that you do not give him. And there is a way you can remove Satan if you have given him a place. You can take back lost ground.
The Removal of Sin
Remember Satan wants an atmosphere in which he can live comfortably, and that atmosphere is sin. Look at Ephesians 4:25, and begin reading about some of the sins Paul mentions specifically that make a welcome place for the devil in your life.
Lying - Paul says, “Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth…” Satan is very comfortable in a person who is a liar. John 8:44 calls the devil a liar and the father of lies. Every time you tell a lie, you are acting like the devil; and you’ve given a place to him.
Anger - In both Ephesians 4:26 and 31, anger is mentioned. The devil is filled with anger (see Revelation 12:12). And if you are an angry person, you have definitely given Satan a beachhead and a campground in your life.
Stealing - Verse twenty-eight says, “Let him that stole steal no more...” In John 10:10, Jesus referred to Satan as a thief. And if there’s a spirit of thievery in your life, you’ve built Satan a nest.
Filthy Speech - And then look in verse twenty-nine: “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth...” In verse four of the next chapter, Paul adds, "Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting...” Filthy speech is a haven for the devil.
Bitterness - Paul warns of bitterness. In verse thirty-one, he admonishes, “Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamor, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice” Few things will make the devil feel more at home than bitterness.
Slander - “Evil speaking” is just another way of saying slander or gossip. Satan is a slanderer. He’s even called “the accuser of our brethren” in Revelation 12:10. Slander is a vicious tool Satan loves to use.
Malice - Malice is the desire to hurt someone. Is there somebody you want to get even with? Then, the devil is sitting in the corner smiling. You have given a place to him, and you need to take it back.
The Renewal of the Spirit
After the removal of sin, there must be a renewal of your spirit. Verse twenty-four instructs us to, “… put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
While Satan feels at home in sin, the Holy Spirit does not. The Holy Spirit is just that — the Holy Spirit of God. Therefore, holiness makes him feel at home, but unholiness grieves Him (see verse thirty).
Put away those things that have caused the Holy Spirit to be grieved, so He may feel at home in your heart.
The Resistance of Satan
Even though you’ve removed sin and invited the Holy Spirit to come and fill you, Satan has to be evicted. He’s not going to just walk out. James 4:7 instructs us, “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”
Now, if you haven’t submitted to God, don’t try to resist the devil. You haven’t got what it takes. You have to resist him in the name of Jesus. But when your heart is clean and Christ is enthroned through the Holy Spirit, you can say, “I belong to Jesus Christ. My sin is under His blood. There is no unconfessed, unrepented-of sin in my life. I have enthroned Christ, and I am filled with His Spirit. You are trespassing on my Father’s property. In the name of Jesus and with the authority of the Word of God; I command you to leave.”
Jesus gives us power over our enemy (Luke 10:19). But you have to learn how to use it. It’s time God’s people took back lost ground!
I know I have spent a lot time with dealing with Dr. Rogers point of, filthy speech, malice and slander. Maybe this might help some to get back to the basics of encouraging one another, and not too worried what someone else did to someone else.
I'm sorry, I should have put Dr. Rogers name at the top of the last post, it is his thoughts.
Sorry for the confusion
concernedchurch,
Your post is wonderful.
The Removal of Sin.
Lying - Who is lying about the dream issue?
Anger - Who exhibited this in his reference to Hezbollah?
Stealing - Who has taken $1000 for a cheerleader camp and claimed it as a moving expense?
Filthy Speech - Who has referenced his brothers as "adversaries"?
Bitterness - Who has said that they will not meet with a brother to resolve an issue?
Slander - Who has characterized those that seek truth as evil and satanic?
Malice - Who has suggested that those do that do not like all of the above leave?
The Renewal of the Spirit
After the removal of sin, there must be a renewal of your spirit. The spirit of Bellevue cannot be renewed without the removal of sin.
The Resistance of Satan
James 4:7 instructs us, “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” Resistance is seldom the easy way and the devil conducts combat before a retreat.
PS.
The actions against others are a symptom of the disease of sin. It is not limited to the pulpit but permeates our leadership and deacon body.
Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church has a set of "lay-elders," a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The rest of the congregation needs to be awakened to this.
While the pastor took a step or two in the right direction there is still a long way to walk... Here are a few important changes that would help during these days of crisis in leadership:
1. Harry Smith, John Caldwell, Steve Tucker, Chuck Taylor, Bruce Brooke, and others who are part of this lay-elder "power block" need to be relieved of positions of influence for a long time.
2. The signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services for the church. These people should be recused from committees that review bids for their services.
3. Former staff should be allowed to address the congregation and/or the deacon body either in writing or in person without ANY fear of reprisal regarding their exit from BBC. Gaines has confessed to mishandling Dr. Whimire's exit... The congregation now needs to hear from Dr. Whimire--and several others--by letter or in person IN THEIR OWN WORDS. The congregation needs to know how their leadership has treated and is treating ministers who leave the service of our Lord through BBC.
4. The END of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members. AND the END of signing non-disclosure statements. All ministers who have been pressured or asked to sign such non-disclosure statements should be released from them in writing by BBC!
5. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... AND any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!
6. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman.
**The current bylaws mention "monthly" business meetings! When were they changed??
7. A transparent committee selection process.
8. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.
9. No church credit cards. Pay your own way and then turn in an expense report like I do at my job.
10. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members. Also:
11. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.
12. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.
13. Thorough communication with the Congregation for ANY capital project well in advance of any vote. Building prayer buildings or any other type of building should be brought through proper channels to the congregation for prayerful consideration--not coerced "rubber stamping."
By the way, Dr. Rogers taught us quite a bit about prayer. As a matter of fact, I believe all of the current buildings ARE prayer buildings already. He and Dr. Whitmire also taught us quite a bit about worship also... but that's another topic.
14. Bellevue needs to reject Warrenism fully and finally.
15. Congregational nomination of and election of all of the Board of Directors as called for in the 1929 bylaws.
16. Higher standards should be put in place for the hiring of "ministers." Seminary training should be considered a normal prerequisite.
17. An admission the cheerleader tickets are not a legit moving expense and reimbursement to BBC.
18. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.
19. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. Free tickets for the host and wife are fine but not for anybody else.
20. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.
All in my opinion as usual.
Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."
Tim,
"But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.'"
John 8:7
Healme
healme,
Luke 19:45-46
45 And He went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
46 saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Tim,
And, yes, Jesus was without sin!
Tim,
you wrote:
concernedchurch,
Your post is wonderful.
Did you read the last paragraph?
I know I have spent a lot time with dealing with Dr. Rogers point of, filthy speech, malice and slander. Maybe this might help some to get back to the basics of encouraging one another, and not too worried what someone else did to someone else.
The contrast between choice_is_yours' response and yours worries me. Can you not read the words of our former pastor and apply them to your own life instead of someone else's?
Did you, and just not share it?
yet another grand list. and yes, that is your list and not God's
healme & faithnhope,
So is it your belief that the things that quench the Spirit in our church should be concealed and not revealed?
Do you also believe that a great portion of the New Testament should be removed from the cannon of Scripture because it confronts the problems within the church?
God deals with individual sin personally, He deals with corporate sin publicly.
hisservant,
Please post God's list.
Tim wrote:
So is it your belief that the things that quench the Spirit in our church should be concealed and not revealed?
You lost me there, brother. My concern is for you, not the church. If you hear a word from our Lord and immediately put it in terms of Steve Gaines and Bellevue, you're missing the point.
faithnhope posted: Tim,
you wrote:
concernedchurch,
Your post is wonderful.
Did you read the last paragraph?
I know I have spent a lot time with dealing with Dr. Rogers point of, filthy speech, malice and slander. Maybe this might help some to get back to the basics of encouraging one another, and not too worried what someone else did to someone else.
The contrast between choice_is_yours' response and yours worries me. Can you not read the words of our former pastor and apply them to your own life instead of someone else's?
Did you, and just not share it?
REPLY: I have noticed the same thing.
Tim,
I give this only as an illustration, not an accusation.
Matthew 7:3-5
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
I recently read the book "The Calvary Road" by Roy Hession. I was humbled by his interpretation of this verse. He said that maybe the speck we are trying so hard to get out of anothers eye is actually a reflection of the plank coming out of our own. That thought, brought me to my knees. Woe, is me because I am a man of unclean lips.
I do not, as you assumed, believe we should not confront sin. But, I do believe we are treading on very dangerous ground when we are quick to point out the sin in others.
Just a warning from a fellow believer, not a condemnation. I am sorry if you took it that way.
Heal me
Great post concerned church and good observation hisservent1
Tim: your first response to that wonderful message from Dr. Rogers was your normal finger pointing and finding every fault possible in others.
faithnhope,
This entire blog is about the concerns of Bellevue and not me personally. It therefore would stand to reason that the comments that are made here would revolve around the church.
II Corinthians 1:8
8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
Paul's God breathed words stressed that it was important to inform the church of troubles both internal and external.
Hey hisservant-1!
I asked you a question last night, but that was before the thread change, so perhaps you missed it. Did you attend the CC meeting on November 26th, and if so, were you wearing a white pullover sweater? I didn't know the man and wouldn't recognize him now if I saw him, but I'm just curious if that was you.
sorry. yes I was there and no I was not wearing a white sweater. sorry
Tim,
I thought (it might have been you or someone else) the church is the people?
If that is true than you are the church.
hisservant-1,
Thank you for answering! (No apology necessary.) But you are a deacon, aren't you? Not asking which deacon, just if you are one.
i guess I need to try and find the post from Pastor that you are referring to.
choice,
You've got mail.
Choice,
I am sorry, can you tell me about what?
Healme
Choice,
What is the definition of a busy body?
What keeps coming up over and over again, what someone did to someone else, so therefore since you observed that action, you demand answers.
Karen and I already posted concerning the apology, so what is it to you. The party that was offended has moved on, but you haven't.
Does this pattern sound familiar?
See how gossip works, a person wants to talk about offenses, so if one does not engage them, they move to the next, until they find another busybody.
Check out 1 Peter 4:15, and look at the other people busybodies are grouped in with.
Choice,
look at healme's question. See how that works.
Nothing against healme, but it is human nature for the need to know, otherwise known as pride.
This how Joseph Smith (founder of latter day saints) got his foot in so many peoples life, he had the answers because the people wanted to know.
From the king foliet discourse:
You want to know who god is, I will tell you, he was a man just as we.
Food for thought, and a lesson to myself as well.
Tim wrote:
This entire blog is about the concerns of Bellevue and not me personally. It therefore would stand to reason that the comments that are made here would revolve around the church.
The blog is about Bellevue, and I assume that you are part of it. Therefore, the blog is about you and it's my responsibility and privilege to be concerned about you.
For you to use the points from the message from Dr. Rogers the way you did cheated yourself out of a blessing. You said the quote was 'wonderful', but was it because it was inspiring and motivating, or because it was something you could use?
Paul shared with the church in Corinth because he wanted to share his life with them. Do bear in mind that not all of Scripture is propositional. Also realize that the is a tremendous difference between what the Scripture says and what your interpretation of what the Scripture says (or anyone's interpretation, for that matter).
I will say this as gently and respectfully as I know how (which is not one of my strengths, unfortunately). You took a wonderful quote from Dr. Rogers, emptied it of all content, and turned it into a tool to use for you own agenda. Is it possible you're sometimes doing the same thing with God's Word? Is the seed falling on good soil, or by the wayside?
Take a minute or two to reflect on that.
Choice,
I didn't realize I was taking Tim to task. That was not my intention. I was just responding to what I read.
Healme
healme,
I don't think 'pastor' is a serious poster. Just ignore him.
Pastor,
While I was trying to answer Choice's question in context, maybe there was part of me that was just curious. I am sorry if I offended you. There goes that speck and plank thing again. I am so thankful for God's mercy and grace because it is so easy for me to fall into sin.
Healme
pastor said...
Choice,
"What is the definition of a busy body?"
Where did you get your definition?
Please note that a busy body is someone who sticks their nose in someone elses business!
While Your definition is synonymous,lets use the original definition.
See below:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
bus·y·bod·y /ˈbɪziˌbɒdi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[biz-ee-bod-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -bod·ies. a person who pries into or meddles in the affairs of others.
Healme,
Don't take it personal. We are all human and we share some of the same tendencies.
However, what is great about having the need to know, is God put that in us for a reason, so we have the need to know him.
I think that is the reason rom 1:20 is such a powerful argument that Paul makes. We look at the universe and have the need to know who created it, which will lead us to the creator.
I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a great friend of mine who is a member of the Church of Christ church. There church is quite large and the pastor decided to allow musical instruments in the church. 10% of the people revolted and are going to other churches. The people are accusing the pastor of not going after the lost sheep and saying hurtful things about him, some have even accused him of following Rick Warren.
My friend, who is not a staff person or elder, had an interesting observation. The sheep that left, are in no danger of losing their faith, they are still part of Christ's church. However, they are moving to another church, which there are 100’s to choose from, and will be a blessing over there.
I realized how many of us use the 1 lost sheep parable, and equate that to a particular church membership. The sheep are only scattered if they walk away from their faith in Christ, we are all part of Christ's church, doesn’t matter which church we attend. (you folks know what I am talking about, when I said it doesn’t matter which church).
faithnhope,
Dr. Rogers message was great because it was true. I have found that truth can be applied to all situations.
The interpretation of the Scripture is not nearly as difficult as some would have us believe.
If it is your opinion that the content of Dr. Rogers message has been emptied of content, then you are welcome to your opinion. As I am to mine. An agenda is not the issue. If you believe that the Scripture references that I have made are errant, then I would invite you to point them out.
As far as the soil to which the seed falls, I am not in control of the soil of your soul or anyone elses. The truth is the seed and the seed of truth does not change.
Tim,
If Bible interpretation is so easy, why are there so many books about it? Why do our seminaries offer classes in Greek, Hebrew, and hermeneutics?
Jeremiah wrote that the heart is deceitful above all else and beyond cure and understanding. I thought the Dr. Rogers' message was wonderful because it dealt with Christians cleaning out their own hearts to remove an environment in which Satan was comfortable.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seemed to be applying the message to Pastor Gaines' heart. And yet you wrote:
As far as the soil to which the seed falls, I am not in control of the soil of your soul or anyone elses.
Physician heal thyself!!!
Tim, choice,
I stand amazed in your presence. Please -- enough of the fingerpointing and preaching.
faithnhope,
You said:
"You took a wonderful quote from Dr. Rogers, emptied it of all content, and turned it into a tool to use for you own agenda."
Are you surprised anyone in our church does that?
I quote Deacon David Bishop's letter to our pastor thusly and like so (Hat tip to MB):
"In the deacons’ meeting, you compared yourself to Nehemiah and by implication, Mark Sharpe and the others to Tobiah and Sanballat. My problem with your analogy is that Mark Sharpe, Richard Emerson, Shell Berry, Riad Saba, and the others who have voiced concerns are members of the body, not pagan outsiders who are opposed to the work being attempted by our church."
I must conclude the pastor endorses the practice you condemn.
david said:
I ask because you continue in strange theology. First with your prophecies, then with some pretty hostile stones thrown Karenward, then with comparisons of those who disagree with Joseph Smith.
"Karenward" - does this make me a noun, verb, adverb or adjective? Sorry, thought y'all could use some levity (I almost wrote "brevity" - some could use that as well). I crack myself up today! :)
karen
headoutofthesand,
Did you catch this link too? Sound familiar?
http://pastormorton.wordpress.com/
WTB,
I wrote:
"You took a wonderful quote from Dr. Rogers, emptied it of all content, and turned it into a tool to use for you own agenda."
To which you responded:
Are you surprised anyone in our church does that?
I'm not in the least surprised that we all misuse quotes for own benefit. Frankly, I'd be shocked if I ever did hear someone quote a scripture that weakened their stance instead of strengthening it.
If the Pastor's intent was comparing the other men to pagans as a label and an insult, then of course I agree with you that it was wrong.
Personally, I don't think that was what he meant. I don't think he searched the Bible for a perfect analogy and found that passage. I honestly believe he was speaking without thinking about the consequences, something he's gotten himself into trouble for before he came here (and since). Let's hope he's learned from the experience.
Tim,
Apologies, my last post was way off topic. My original point was that I see a lot of bitterness in your posts, one of the things Dr. Rogers talked about. That's my concern.
No, I don't control over the soil of another's heart, but I do have influence. We all do.
Will you please think about what I'm saying to you?
To 25+yrs@bbc on your 20-point post at 8:50 AM on December 06,2006:
If the outline you have posted today and on other occasions were to be followed exactly, we could have truth and reconciliation. I would rubber stamp your ideas as you have laid them out here.
To All Others:
If you have not read every single point of this person's outline, please, read them. It takes a lot of time and forethought and the Holy Spirit of God to lead one to enumerate ideas in such a manner.
Thank you for your post, 25+yrs.
Hi pastor,
Is HeadOutOfTheSand correct? Are you Mr Nathan Morton?
Best,
Josh
Pastor said:
Hey folks it is me,Pastor, or otherwise as you like to call me pastor of darkness.
I recieved this email from a friend of mine, who is also a pastor (whom I believe is much more thoughtful than I am).
REPLY: Sorry I don't know how to italicize the original post. Just wanted to remind everyone that he didn't take credit for the article...
I was wondering how long it would take someone to take the bait.
Do you actually believe I would expose God's flock that he has entrusted me, to unrelentless religous people.
(that is not intended for everyone on this blog, just the ones who get mad at that statement).
My flock who size is approx. 300 people (in one year)are 95% unchurched, and are now coming to Christ and joining an SBC church.
I posted clearly that I received an email from a fellow pastor. I posted the link because I knew his church was linked as well.
Many of you believe I am a pastor, the ones that believe I am pastor Morton, got their by accusing me of being a liar.
Folks, this is the core issue, jump to conclusions, without confirming your findings, then painting church leadership in the negative in all things. I made it very clear, I received the email from a fellow pastor, therefore I am not pastor Morton.
Now watch, how many people will post that I am a liar, as well as I am lying through this post, the scripture is very clear on this practice 1 Tim 5:19.
By the way for the detectives, please note the writing styles. Pastor Morton is a young man who has dedicated his life to serving the Lord and preaching His word, do not tear him down. Feel free to agree or disagree with his blog, but do not tear him down.
Your discourteous comments about him, is that encouraging this young man in the Lord? Give that man double honor (1 Tim 5:17), for you folks that are older than pastor Morton, pay very close attention to Titus 2:1-10, the verb is in the imperative, which is a direct command, not a direct suggestion.
I post here because, some of the people reading here, and posting here, are part of God's flock. (1 Peter 5:2).
You said BBC is a leading church, (which I believe), as the leader goes so do the followers. So, we all (believers) have a vested interest in the revival at BBC.
The outside world looking in, does not see you as BBC, but as Christians as a whole.
Hi SCMom,
Here's an example of how to itlicize things. Type the following, without the spaces inside the carats:
< i > Jesus is Lord! < /i >
If you eliminate the spaces between the carats and other characters, the phrase Jesus is Lord would be italicised like this Jesus is Lord! Use the letter "b" for bold and "u" for underline (without the quotes).
Hope that helps. Also, does the SC in your name mean your from South Carolina--my adopted home state?
Cheers,
Josh
Thank you for answering my question, pastor.
headoutofsand,
Thank you for your sincerity and honesty, way to go!
(no sarcasm)
pastor,
Because of your unkind comments to me, I would suggest you NEVER reveal yourself here. My husband, who is a young Christian, still wants to pop a knot on your head for the junk you've spouted about me. Not a threat; just some sound advice.
Now, let's all move on....
Karen
pastor wrote:
"I posted clearly that I received an email from a fellow pastor."
He's right about that. He did.
"Do you actually believe I would expose God's flock that he has entrusted me, to unrelentless religous people."
If I were you, I'd be embarrassed if my flock ever found out the way you've spoken to and about many of the people here and what you did to Karen. I really don't think you are a pastor. At least I hope not. I'm not even convinced you're a Christian. You certainly haven't exhibited a very Christ-like attitude. I'd hate to think God entrusted a flock to anyone with an attitude like yours.
NASS
P.S. Please, folks. Just ignore the troll. I've received two e-mails today telling me this is Pastor Morton, and I didn't think it was, but I had to be away for a while and hadn't had time to try to verify it. Let's confirm our facts before posting anything.
PASTOR, OH PASTOR!
You have been asked this question a couple of times and you have no answered it yet.
You said rhat you were led of the Holy Spirit to say the things you did to Karen and that the shoe just happen to fit.
Now, for the 3rd time, please tell us who led you to apologize to Karen.
Pastor,
I am now confused. Why would you link yourself to Pastor Morton to set him up? If you are not he, then you have done him a grave disservice.
I will remove my posts regarding him, but it only leads me to believe that you are not an honest man.
Did the pastor reconcile with Jim Whitmire?
Good post Nass (no sarcasm)
i posted this several days ago with no response.
karen posted: TO PASTOR:
FOR THE RECORD THIS IS KAREN'S HUSBAND. I DON'T HAVE A BLOG NAME ON THIS PARTICULAR BLOG NOR HAVE I INVOLVED MYSELF IN THIS SITUATION.
PASTOR, I REALLY DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE! I'M ONLY RESPONDING AT THIS TIME BECAUSE YOU HAVE PERSONALLY ATTACKED MY WIFE! KAREN STOOD UP TO YOU AND ADMITTED SOMETHING THAT SHE IS NOT PROUD OF AND BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU THAT IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION. YOU MAY NOT HAVE CAST THE FIRST STONE, BUT INDEED, SIR, YOU DID CAST A STONE. ARE YOU WITHOUT SIN? IT APPEARS THAT YOU ARE AMUSING YOURSELF BY PROVIDING SARCASTIC AND HURTFUL REMARKS. YOU ARE INDEED A COWARD AND A BULLY!
ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, I HAVE KNOWN KAREN FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND WE'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR 2 MONTHS. SHE BROUGHT ME BACK TO CHURCH. SHE AND HER FAMILY HAVE BEEN A GREAT INSPIRATION TO ME.
RANDY
REPLY: I totally understand why you are upset and defending your wife. I would do the same thing. What I DO NOT understand is why MOST on here just do not get they are guilty of this same HORRIBLE stuff every single day on this blog and other places.
It hurts when someone you love is attacked does it not?? Then WHY do MOST on here attack Brother Steve and a huge list of others every day. The double standard is UNREAL and make me SICK!! Many on here come to the defense of Karen and others ASAP (which I understand) BUT, then a few posts later attack Brother Steve or someone else with a horrible personal attack. Many on here make things PERSONAL every single day. They seem to enjoy it and that is scary.
MANY of YOU have put Brother Steve and his family and others through a great deal. You have hurt Brother Steve, His family, his wife, his children etc etc. Not to mention all the others that have been attacked and their families.
But somehow many on here try to justify their horrible attacks?? How??
It DOES NOT matter what has been done. What is true or what is not. Your hate filled personal attacks cannot be defended.
It makes me sick to my stomach to see many of you post in Jesus name and all this great sounding spiritual stuff. I hate to tell you, but most of the threads on here are in NO way what Jesus would post. Many on here need to open their eyes and READ their own posts. Most are filled with horrible attacks and hate and contain very little if any love.
This blog and many posts on it represent a great deal of what is wrong with the church today.
5% of this blog is serious issues that are posted or talked about in a loving way.
Many of you have gone to the other Committee meetings and will go tomorrow and have horrible attitudes. Many walk into Bellevue in 100% self/flesh and it is very easy to see. But you are in there trying to focus on someone else and their "issues".
try looking in the mirror
faithnhope,
I truly understand what you are communicating. Truly, I do. I appreciate your concern that bitterness not reside in my heart. I sincerely do.
My concerns are often direct and to the point. I was certainly not born to be a politician and I am well aware of that.
Thank you for your concern, I understand that you may feel that my posts are the result of bitterness. My posts however are motivated by a passion for Bellevue and a desire to see her turned away from sure destruction.
I would also like to know if Jim Whitmire was reconciled with!!!!!!!!
Karen posted: pastor,
Because of your unkind comments to me, I would suggest you NEVER reveal yourself here. My husband, who is a young Christian, still wants to pop a knot on your head for the junk you've spouted about me. Not a threat; just some sound advice.
Now, let's all move on....
Karen
REPLY: I understand you are upset etc, but now you are threatening violence? you say it is not a threat, but it clearly sounded like one.
This are some of the lessons I have learned since our pastor came to Bellevue.
The pastor came to Bellevue and totally ignored our pastor, Adrian Rogers.
Lessons: Do not honor your elder pastor or elder brother. Call someone your best friend and mentor as a politician would use false advertisements to gain votes. Dishonor a man when honors you and hurt his feelings as much as you can before he dies.
The Leadership ran over Dr, Rogers when he became frail and did things they knew he would never approve of.
Lesson: It`s ok to disrespect those in authority over you. Take advantage of people who are weaker than you.
Our pastor loves running ads in the Memphis Flyer and have his and his wife`s photo plastered on billboards across Memphis.
The pastor is a hypocrite. He tried to run a similar paper in Gardendale out of business and even encouraged his Gardendale flock to boycott business` that had the papers availble in or near their business.
Lesson: It`s ok to be a hypocrite. Teach a different set of moral value to different flocks. It`s ok to make a public stand for something if the pastor leads the march, but don`t do it if he`s not at the front of the band.
Hisservant-1,
You have said that you were aware of most if not all of these issues apart from this blog.
How can you possibly defend these issues?
Do you believe that $25,000 to FUMC was the right thing to do?
Do you believe that a $1000 cheer leading camp is a moving expense?
Do you believe that it is ok to have personal expenses direct billed to the church?
Is there anything that could be done aside from posting on this blog that you would consider wrong?
This are some things that I have learned since our pastor came to Bellevue.
The leadership at our church is compromised of a small group of friends who are rich. They scratch each other`s back and protect each other. They have no fear of being openly arrogant or disrespectful to people who meet them, at their request, to voice their concerns. They will roll their eyes and make funny faces when you ask a question. They will give you an answer that diliberatly keeps the truth from being known without having to admit they are lying. They are carefully going about hiding the truth in order to decieve the congregation so they can keep their most coveted sin, which is greedy power.
David said......
Blessme:
About pastor running ads in less than honorable papers: Isn’t that who you want to reach? I wouldn’t do it. . . but Jesus did eat and drink and go to parties with “sinners.” It does kind of give me chills, too, though because it results in the church actually supporting the paper. But I keep going back to thinking about Christ with those sinners. The Ad was a legitimate church ad, correct?
PLEASE NOTICE that Pastor Gaines thought that the same kind of paper should be exterminated while supporting a like paper with ads.
Don`t confuse the issues please.
Steve Gaines is a blantant hypocrite and his past and present action prove it.
Things I have learned since our new preacher came to Bellevue.
The search committee doesn` really have to SEARCH, they can persue a person as pastor because they favor him and continue to pursue him after he says no a zillion times, until he finally gives them the answer THEY want.
The Search committee can give the pastor hidden perks.
The Search committee can claim boldly that everything they did was just what GOD told them to do and thereby never have to give an real account of what happened.
David said, "Didn’t pastor (Steve) say he reconciled with Jim W. at Dr. Rogers funeral? I can’t verify that because Bellevue did not post that sermon! So I have to go on memory. But I think he said he apologized to Jim at Rogers funeral."
You may indeed listen to it at Bellevue.org. The video is not yet posted, but the audio is there. The message is available for free on itunes as well.
Each of us should carefully listen to the pastor's words and then seek the truth about his dealings with Dr. Whitmire.
Things I have learned since our new preacher came to Bellevue.
Steve Gaines can decide that the carpet isn`t soft enough for his feet and the leadership will jump to buy new carpet for him.
Steve Gaines had so many books he needed to have Pastor Roger`s study remodeled which costs thousands of dollars.
Steve Gaines made a promise not to make ANY CHANGES for at least one year but could not CONTROL HIMSELF. He is a promise breaker! He couldn`t wait to rip Bellevue apart at the seams to make it more like him.
hiservant-1,
My husband doesn't read the blog, but when he came home on Saturday afternoon to me sobbing on the couch after what "pastor" had said to me, he reacted. Wouldn't you defend your wife/husband/child to the end of the earth if someone hurt them? Randy, my wonderful husband, didn't care about BBC at that moment. All he knew was that his new wife was crying and he was gonna find out who made her cry (my hero! Karen swoons! - But I digress). He didn't have to say a word on this blog, but he did. He stood up for me and for what he belives is right and wasn't gonna take any (excuse me) crap from anyone on this blog - "pastor", deacon or nobody.
The issue about "pastor" being mean to me is over. Let it go, y'all! Keep your eyes on the prize, a united Bellevue Baptist Church! Ignore the trolls!
Karen
david said...
This is directed Karenward:
I’m figuring you’re a verb. Defiantly. Ever known a cheerleader who wasn’t a verb? You’re all hyper and stuff, so a verb for sure.
Funny! You made me spit again!
Hisservant-1,
C'mon do you really think my husband would be violent? He doesn't know who "pastor" really is - what do you want him to do, shadow box with the wall? Leave me alone on this issue - it didn't involve you and it's none of your business.
Karen
Things I have learned since Steve Gaines came to Bellevue.
Steve Gaines finally visited Pastor Adrian Rogers one week before he died. What a friend he was to Dr. Rogers!
At Dr. Rogers funeral, he watched the Whitmires like a vulture watches road kill.
He couldn`t wait to tear into the Whitmires.
He glared at them throughout the funeral.
Why?????
Because he was so angry over a letter that had been sent to Harry Smith from the Whitmires.
Steve Gaines has a very difficult time controlling his temper and when he lets it off leash it runs to do as much damage as it can.
Custos said:
Hi SCMom,
Also, does the SC in your name mean your from South Carolina--my adopted home state?
Cheers,
Josh
Thanks Josh. No, I'm actually further south and several states west. I do know your mom though ;).
Things I have learned since Steve Gaines came ot POWER!
Steve Gaines is a complusive liar. He has a string of lies that are following him around like Scrooges friend, Mr. Marley and he is still living in a lie.
Steve Gaines has a great love of money. He loves money so much that instead of blessing his congregation, he takes advantage of them by upping the price on tour tickets so he can pocket the profit And those who have approached him on this suhject have been itimidates and threatened. If Steve Gaines is not careful, he is going to fly off the handle on day, or as he puts it, shoot from the hip, and he is going to end up in jail. Mark it down folks, we are dealing with a pastor who acts like a GANGSTER.
blessmewiththetruth,
Preach on sister/brother! You are blessing me with the truth today.
karen
Did anyone notice that our new deacon chairman is one of the deacons (elders) that said the fence was low and was just stepped over.......My the more things change the more they stay the same.....Also did you realize we now have a new elder in the deacon leadership, incidently he was also the one that did not think we should see the credit card receipts, WOW our deacons (elders)can really pick them.
ARE THE WEIGHTS BALANCED?
Steve Gaines had leadership in West Jackson removed for sexual immorality.
Steve Gaines knows that a senior staff member has been accused of sexual immorality and takes NO ACTION WHAT SO EVER. He refuses to even investigate.
WHY?????????????
Donna Gaines.
You are living with a dangerous man who hides behind a pulpit and behind lies and wicked men in leadership. I hope you will stop helping him to do these things.
You told Mrs.Rogers a blatant lie about the Whitmire`s so I already know that you will lie just like your husband. Stop lying Donna Gaines.
You are busy filming your new project to be sold to the public and you are using all the assets of Bellevue to make your project wonderful Donna, are you giving you project profits to Bellevue? Are you paying Bellevue for their work? Are you paying for the new set they made just for you to do your project?
OR
Are you allowing the Bellevue family to pay for your project with plans for you to pocket the profits personally or run it through your own organization that you and Steve have together?
We want to know the truth Donna.
Feel free to write to all of us with your reply.
LINDA GLANCE
Linda we were told in the last CC meeting, that YOU are the reason that the PASTOR decided to UP the price on tour tickets for his own profit.
Now, we all know he did this prior to coming to Bellevue, just so you know before you answer.
LINDA GLANCE, Did you really do this?
STEVE TUCKER
Steve if I needed a saddle, I would drive all the way to Texas before I got one from you or your cow poking, side stepping friend, Harry Smith.
What an arrogant man you are to sit in a Communication Committee meetings and communicate with rolling eyes and sour grape face. What distain you have shown!
Steve you don`t belong in any ministry at any church.
Ride on out into the sunset and take Harry with you when you go.
hisservant-1...your posts are tiresome. This would all go away - and would have gone away - if Sharpe, Emmerson, Parker, Whitmire, Mullins, Smith and any others were allowed to tell their stories before the deacons and/or the church, fully and openly, without trying to hide behind ad-hoc committees and non-disclosure agreements (well, unsigned non-disclosure agreements in at least 2 cases). Why does a departing staff member have to literally force himself out the door between two church staffers on his last day of work as they try to get him to sign a non-disclosure agreement? Because all is OK and he simply left of his own accord? Yeah, right. (rolls eyes)
What does BBC fear so much as to ask departing staff to promise not tell what they experienced? If TRUTH is on the side of BBC, then why not ask those ex-staff members to come before the deacons and/or the congregation and say "All is well. These rumors of mistreatment are false." One ex-staff member has not spoken to the local paper on at least one occasion because he did not want to bring any disrepute on Bellevue. If he cares so much about BBC so as not not bring shame on it when he had the opportunity, then why won't the church bring him - and any others - before the deacons and/or congregation to state "all is well". It's doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why.
You remind me of those defenders of the institution of the church during the Reformation - more concerned with protecting the institution and the head of that institution than with Truth itself. Martin Luther aired the church's "dirty (theological) laundry" on the door of Castle Church in Wittenberg. His "accusations" then spread through the newly invented printing press - as opposed to the internet today - and resulted in the Reformation. The organization known as BBC is in serious need of some reformation.
I wonder if Luther was accused of "causing" people to go to Hell because he dared to challenge the church? But then, how many have been saved because he dared proclaim the Truth of salvation through faith alone?
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno, 16th century philosopher
P.S. I notice in an earlier post you took issue with some Love Offering figures, but you never posted the knowledge of those figures you seemingly possess. So as to not get into debating decimal places with you, let's just say that it was the lowest since the 1980s (actually since 1980 if I recall the conversation with my source correctly).
so many of you refer to some of us as "trolls"
question: what if we referred to some of you trouble makers?? we would get bashed for days and we would be accused of everything in the world. the fact is, many on here spew hate filled words toward people that have different views with them, but if the shoe was on the other foot, those same people would be going nuts.
blessmewiththetruth posted: STEVE TUCKER
Steve if I needed a saddle, I would drive all the way to Texas before I got one from you or your cow poking, side stepping friend, Harry Smith.
What an arrogant man you are to sit in a Communication Committee meetings and communicate with rolling eyes and sour grape face. What distain you have shown!
Steve you don`t belong in any ministry at any church.
Ride on out into the sunset and take Harry with you when you go.
REPLY: more hate filled personal attacks. many of you just continue to prove my points and show your true heart with every post.
Steve Gaines knows that a senior staff member has been accused of sexual immorality and takes NO ACTION WHAT SO EVER. He refuses to even investigate.
Did I miss something?
CHIP FREEMAN
What a coward Chip is.
He runs to Mark S. and acts like he cares about the Church`s finances being mishandled.
When Mark tried to do something about it, Chip panics!
He knows that to expose the truth is going to expose that he leaked the information to Mark S.
He comes up with a very clever plan, so he thinks.
He decides that he can distance himself from Mark S. and draw closer to the pastor and his yes men leadership, who he knows all too well has been involved in mishandling the church`s money.
Then his wife, Misty, joins him in spreading the lie that she and her husband are not and never have been friends with the Sharpe family.
WOW, you are such a smart couple!
DId you really think that no one knew that you were friends with the Sharpes?
Did you think no one knew that you were the ones who went the Sharpe home to take care of their pool when they went on vacation?
Did you think no one knew that your children swam in their pool?
Did you think that no one knew that you gave the Sharpes a thank you gift when they got back from their vacation?
Somewhere in all this muck, Chip escapes Bellevue for another job but suddenly returns to work at Bellevue and then Pastor starts running around singing Chip`s praises!
Why is the Pastor so happy that Chip has returned?
Chip doesn`t have the courage to tell the truth.
I am a minister in a church in NC. I read in the local Baptist paper about this blog. After reading some of the post I realized that what was going on here was very much like what happened to a church I used to attend. We had a pastor who had been there for 15 years and then because of personal reasons had to leave. When the new pastor came a few people decided that they didn't like him and tried to run him off by accusing him of everything under the sun. Many of you on this blog are just like them. There is no pastor that is going to do everything just like all of us want him to. Our responsibily is to follow the man that God has placed over us as long as he is preaching the Word of God. I have listened to many of Pastor Gaines sermons and he sure preaches the Word! I was not going to put anything on this blog until I read the last few post by blessmewiththetruth. Whoever you are you are walking on dangerous ground with God. You have personally and hatefully attacked a man of God. Some of the men who tried to run my former pastor off had some things come in their lives that I truly believe were a direct result of what they did to our pastor. I am truly praying for all of you, your pastor, and for your church. Thank you for allowing me to post. I will not be posting anything else.
ed_t,
I have asked about the Love Offering many times and have never gotten an answer. Does ANYBODY know?
ed_t: I know some of the men you listed and several if not all of them would not do what you stated.
also, so then would it be ok if Brother Steve and others got up and told ALL of those same men's mistakes and "dirty laundry". what that be ok??
and please do not say that you know all of those men and that all of them have not made major mistakes themselves.
hisservant 1
Your opinion DIES in the light of TRUTH
If you don`t like the TRUTH then stay in the darkness you so obviouly love.
I have no respect for you at all.
ANd GET READY FOR MORE TRUTH!
praying4u said...
Please don`t come here and start giving your opinion on issues unless you know the TRUTH.
Pastor from N.C.
You are speculating that things you read here are untruthful and I can tell you rhat most of what you read here is THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, so may I suggest you come back when you have facts and stop with your unfactual surmizings.
Did anyone ask why Steve Gaines had Dr Rogers locked out of the Pastor's offices without telling him he was planning on doing so?
Apparently Dr Rogers, being the PASTOR EMERITIUS, did not turn in his keys when he retired and inadvertently used them as he had done for the PAST 37 YEARS, thereby interupting Steve Gaines in his office. Instead of Steve Gaines addressing the situation with Dr Rogers,as any normal man would do, he immediately called and had the locks changed. What kind of man would do something like that? He showed absolutely NO respect for the man that the Lord used to build Bellevue these last 3+ decades. Why did he just not talk to Dr Rogers, who was at that time beginning to show the frailty from his illness? Can you imagine the hurt when Dr Rogers put his key in the door and it did not work!
Can you imagine Dr Rogers having to ASK permission to gain access??
He would have NEVER just walked in on Steve Gaines unless it was something he was doing out of routine habit! The man was a GENTLEMAN!
Can you imagine what kind of man we now have in the pulpit of BBC?
bless me,
It is about time someone got some of this stuff out in the open! I thank you for your posts!
DEACONS WHO ARE RUDE AND ARROGANT
What does Bellevue Leadership do about deacons who are rude and arrogant?
Answer: Stand behind them.
We have clear eviddence that some deacons are nothing less than tools of satan and yet our church will do NOTHING about it.
BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH DOES NOT CURRENRLY FOLLOW SCRIPTURAL COMMANDS for deacons, bishops, Matthew 18, sexual immorality, ect
Wow Blessedmewithtruth,
Those are some pretty volatile accusations and pretty harsh blanket statements about our church. I hope you are not correct.
Healme
hisservant-1,
There is a vast difference in the holier than thou attitudes that were exhibited by many of those on the CC committee and the humble attitude of those that have resigned from Bellevue as staff and membership.
MOM4 said...
Can you imagine what kind of man we now have in the pulpit of BBC?
I no longer have to use my imagination to know what kind of man we have in the pulpit at Bellevue.
He could not stand to walk the light that surrounded Pastor Adrian Rogers because the light hurts his flesh. The TRUTH is this. Steve Gaines is surrounded by darkness. He had been romancing the darkness for quite awhile and unfortunately he found some leadership at Bellevue who chose to him in his darkness and now they are trying to cover Bellevue with DARKNESS and the children of light will NEVER STAY SILENT AS LONG AS THE DARKNESS DELIGHTS ITSELF AT BELLEVUE!
Who took the orders to change the locks from Steve Gaines and ran with them?
Find that out and you will know the depth of darkness we are battling.
MAY GOD ARISE AND CHASE THE DARKNESS AWAY!
Ed t posted,
What does BBC fear ... ??
And then "blessmewithmoreaccusations" says:
Steve Gaines knows that a senior staff member has been accused of sexual immorality and takes NO ACTION WHAT SO EVER. He refuses to even investigate.
If Steve Gaines is not careful, he is going to fly off the handle on day, or as he puts it, shoot from the hip, and he is going to end up in jail. Mark it down folks, we are dealing with a pastor who acts like a GANGSTER.
AND ...
The pastor is a hypocrite.
AND ...
Steve Gaines is a blantant hypocrite and his past and present action prove it.
AND ...
What an arrogant man you are to sit in a Communication Committee meetings and communicate with rolling eyes and sour grape face. What distain you have shown!
Steve you don`t belong in any ministry at any church.
Ride on out into the sunset and take Harry with you when you go.
AND ...
You told Mrs.Rogers a blatant lie about the Whitmire`s so I already know that you will lie just like your husband. Stop lying Donna Gaines.
THEN our resident cheerleader chimes in:
blessmewiththetruth,
Preach on sister/brother! You are blessing me with the truth today.
karen
AND THEN we're "blessed" with this response to an open rebuke to such un-Christ-like hate-speech:
TO
hisservant 1
Your opinion DIES in the light of TRUTH
If you don`t like the TRUTH then stay in the darkness you so obviouly love.
I have no respect for you at all.
ANd GET READY FOR MORE TRUTH!
To another round of cheering from the fan club:
bless me,
It is about time someone got some of this stuff out in the open! I thank you for your posts!
I am praying for everyone who posts here, but it is becoming increasingly more difficult to maintain the right spirit in doing so. I really tremble for you all, because God's mighty hand of justice will probably not be very gentle when He decides to deal with all of this.
God help us all.
healme said...
Wow Blessedmewithtruth,
Those are some pretty volatile accusations and pretty harsh blanket statements about our church. I hope you are not correct.
Healme
HEALME,
I am correct and this is only the tip of the iceberg.
ed_t,
Our deacon body does not have to gain permission from the pastor to meet with anyone. I quite frankly believe that they should have a meeting without him present and call some of the prior staff as well as some of the membership. They might be shocked at what they would learn.
Some of them anyway. Some of them might be jumping on a cabbage truck heading out of town.
maybejustmaybe said...
Ed t posted,
What does BBC fear ... ??
We fear for the souls of people like you who have their head so covered up by the sand that they might follow the darkness instead of the light and end up in a place that takes them to hell.
You apparently have not reserached these issues or you too would have the truth.
If you are offended by the TRUTH, please join hisservant 1 and all the other servants who love darkness rather than light.
What I have stated are facts not opinions.
You have a lot of opinions without facts.
I choose the TRUTH over your Opinions.
BlessMewithTheTruth: you are 100% full of self and flesh and to be honest you seem out of control. your spewing of hate over the last few hours is amazing.
let's say everything you have posted is right.
then, YOU are STILL big time in the WRONG. your personal attacks, slander, and out right hate is amazing. The Bible calls what you are doing Sin. plain and simple.
YOU are the problem, not the others that might still have issues, but are going about things the right way.
You are an evil person. And THAT, blessme, is the truth. How dare you spread this poison under the guise of a spiritual seeking of the truth! How dare you besmirch the names and reputations of fellow church members and those in authority over you!
Contrary to what you may think, I DO have facts, and a lot of them. And the fact that speaks loudest is that you are a tool of Satan himself. And are too drunk with hatred and vitriol to even realize that he has you by the nose and is leading you to destroy his church.
But I do agree with you on one point -- I DO definitely have OPINIONS, as well. And my opinion is that you are an unhappy and vile individual who will stop at nothing to see another person destroyed, all while you hide behind the anonymity of a blog to carry out Satan's schemes. If you have such "knowledge" and "truth," pray tell why do you not put your name on your claims to give them at least some measure of veracity??
Yeah, you are so bold, aren't you?
david said...
Where in the world are you getting this stuff? This present darkness? Instead of giving truth everything seems to be running through the Spin Zone.
David, if you can not identify DARKNESS, I pity you.
Do you need a BIBLE to read?
hisservant-1,
I fail to see any reason that you would be qualified to tell any one the difference between what is right and what is wrong.
Isaiah 9:6-7
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.
This current blog string is now over 1100 blogs. Over the past few days I have followed it and watched it transform into darker and more malicious attacks from both sides. Be reminded from the passage above from Isaiah the reason we are all here. We live for Him … Jesus. He will right the wrongs on His schedule, not any of ours. As hard as we try, He is the only one able to judge us sinners. Attacking fellow Christians in such a public forum puts a smile on Satan’s face.
maybejustmaybe said...
You are an evil person. And THAT, blessme, is the truth. How dare you spread this poison under the guise of a spiritual seeking of the truth! How dare you besmirch the names and reputations of fellow church members and those in authority over you!
Contrary to what you may think, I DO have facts, and a lot of them. And the fact that speaks loudest is that you are a tool of Satan himself. And are too drunk with hatred and vitriol to even realize that he has you by the nose and is leading you to destroy his church.
But I do agree with you on one point -- I DO definitely have OPINIONS, as well. And my opinion is that you are an unhappy and vile individual who will stop at nothing to see another person destroyed, all while you hide behind the anonymity of a blog to carry out Satan's schemes. If you have such "knowledge" and "truth," pray tell why do you not put your name on your claims to give them at least some measure of veracity??
Yeah, you are so bold, aren't you?
MAYBE
Maybe is a name that could easily desribe the middle of the road fence sitter, but I must say you seem to have jumped off the fence here and allowed all of us to see where you really stand.
If you don`t like the TRUTH, there is nothing I can do for you but nothing you say will stop the TRUTH from coming forth, so please get use to the TRUTH being displayed.
Steve Gaines, Donna, and all their sin loving circle of yes men and women, are in grave spiritual danger when they hide their sins and continue in them instead of calling it what it is and coming out of it.
If you like their darkness there is plenty of room for you under their leadership.
I will pray for you.
Thanks, but no. I think you have enough to pray about.
Karen: this is a DIRECT question for you! you just posted that BlessMewithTheTruth and he/she hate filled evil posts were a blessing to you today.
can you please explain!!??
here is my BIG problem. You and several others really scare me sometimes and that is the honest truth. you post all this fun loving stuff and all these feel good jokes etc. you also seem at times to be very honest and gentle people. then, something changes. then you and others support hate filled evil and personal attacks posted by BlessMewithTheTruth and several others on here.
you SUPPORT them and their hate filled posts.
why?? because you will do anything and everything to "win"?? why??
and who are you really? the gentle, nice Christian, or the other I discribed??
BlessMewithTheTruth: you might want to see what the Bible has to say about slander, libel, and all themany other things you include in your posts.
The Bible does not say that IF someone is dojng wrong then, slander, libel, etc are ok!! They are wrong and a SIN no matter what.
maybe: thank you for your stand and for your attitude and heart
TRUTH has now been called a lie by those who hate the ttuth. This is exactly what Steve Gaines is teaching the church.
Those who come here without facts to back up their defensive posts love to call us liars in a round about way but it will never stand the test of time!
...still smiling. Who gets the church? The winner or loser of this battle?
The truth is not in you. Wake up.
DAVID,
Don`t speak for me.
I have facts, pure and simple and so do others right here on this blog.
Anyone who wants the facts can have them.
I will not be sidetracked by those who don`t want the TRUTH so I will continue to bring the TRUTH while you do whatever you wish.
Those who don`t want the facts, don`t even look for them.
Chose your own path, but don`t chose mine.
I have facts and so do others.
I have been told by several people I know over the last week that they DO NOT want those they called "trouble makers" to come and join their church. they said they want NO part of what they have read on this blog and heard other places.
I told them that is a tough thing, but that I could not blame them.
BlessMewithTheTruth: why are you ignoring my posts?
david said...
“Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.” 1 Peter 2:1
Thank you for that scripture. This is exactly our goal by in order to rid ourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, ency and slander, the pastor and all his dark servants must step down.
Count your blessings, HS-1.
(maybe thinks "blessme" has been playing D&D a little too much ...)
BE BACK SOON WITH MORE TRUTH!
No, David. I didn't miss anything.
David, before I take a break.
GO tell that to Steve Gaines and company.
Just a question. Is the acceptance of such spew governed by whether you agree with the one doing the spewing? Or is it just because I'm daring to call him on it that I'm having Scripture quoted in my face? Just curious.
Matthew 7:1 AND 2
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
There are many that often like to quote the first verse only and not the second. The second verse brings into context the judgment that we are to use, which is the Word of God. The second verse also addresses the fact that we are to measure everything according to the Word of God. The Word of God is never slack in addressing sin as sin.
hisservant-1,
It is not possible for slander or libel to exist in the truth.
blessmewiththetruth,
Please e-mail me tonight.
NBBCOF
Tim, there is a presumption on your part that "blessme" is dealing with the truth. Yet he won't associate his name with his slanderous statements. Why should I believe him over and above a Scriptural directive to "touch not God's anointed" or to "submit to those in authority over me?" If he speaks truth, he needs to put up or shut up. Otherwise, his words have no credibility, at least not in light of God's Word.
David,
My post was directed toward Hisservant-1's constant claim that this blog is full of slander and libel.
It was not in regard to the post of blessmewiththetruth.
I do not know the source of blessmewiththetruth's information.
I believe that it is possible that he has verified information concerning the misconduct of a staff member that is far beyond what many know.
That will be something that I can only allow him to answer about.
David -- apologies for being curt with you. You were addressing "blessme" and not me when I wrote the following:
maybejustmaybe said...
No, David. I didn't miss anything.
5:02 PM, December 06, 2006
... and in the subsequent post, as well, I was still quite angry, thinking you were directing your comments to me ...
I apologize. Please forgive my brashness and lack of gentleness and self-control.
And to all others on this blog, please forgive me for allowing my temper to escape its bounds in the last half-hour. I am appropriately reproved by Scripture and I will do my best to refrain from being judgmental. One sin does not excuse another. I hope we have all at least learned that much.
Prayerfully,
maybe
david said...
Scripture says if you have an accusation against an elder it needs to be supported by 2 or 3 witnesses. this is to provide solid evidence, so you know you are acting on the truth. It's not wrong to simply ask blessme: Where are you getting this information?
2 or 3 witnesses does not mean 2 or 3 people with their own accusations. each accusation needs to be supported by 2 or 3 witnesses. Or, just some evidence that what he is saying is factual would help.
Reply: I am in agreement with you on this. I personally believe that our deacons should have a meeting and call those involved so that the truth can be known. I believe that if they asked those involved that most of them would offer their testimony to these issues and this could be put to rest one way or another. The fact that this adminisration and leadership of the deacons has been unwilling for this to come about has certainly not shown well for them.
Tim posted: hisservant-1,
It is not possible for slander or libel to exist in the truth.
REPLY: you might need to research further on that and see what God's word says.
so you are saying that as long as you are stating the Truth, it is ok to slander someone and their family and their reputation??
try this:
http://www.bible-topics.com/Slander.html
another:
http://www.allaboutgod.com/truth-topics/slander.htm
hisservant-1,
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
slan·der n.
Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
Truth is not false. Truth is not malicious. The fact that someone can be damaged by the truth does not make it slander.
I prefer to go by God's word.
hisservant-1,
I looked at the links that you gave and the verses that are referenced are all in relation to the lack of truth in communication.
Where is a Biblical reference that shows that the truth was slanderous?
david,
As I said my post was not in relation to others that you are addressing. I can not answer for another. As I stated, I do not know the source of his information.
My my my....this is one busy little blog today. I've been sitting back and watching the proceedings for about an hour.
mjm: a little earlier I was about to point out how slanderously and venomously you pointed out someone else's slander and venom, but I thought better of it..I'm glad I did, seeing that you apologized. I was about to be very disappointed in you..thanks for restoring my confidence.
hisservant1: I've been observing you and your old buddy ace for a few weeks now. Nothing personal...but learn how to actually make an argument instead of just arguing. I hear you say over and over.."that's not true"...but you never offer the truth...you've claimed to have it..to have known it from the beginning..but you still don't offer it..what's up with that? WTB asked you earlier to give us God's list..you haven't answered, that I can see. If you truly have info then spill it...otherwise you're just sounding like 2 adolescents saying..did so..did not..did so...ad nauseum.
david: the "spin zone"..well there's certainly been plenty of that..you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see that. So you're a pastor too? What do you guys find so fascinating about this place? There's been a couple of pastors come through here before, telling everybody how much they need to repent and how slanderous all this is..then I visited their blogs..whew..talk about slander..only difference is..they slander their fellow pastors, local associations, etc...in short, anyone who isn't like them...I guess they wanted to "counsel" everyone.
"pastor": I don't know who you are..but you're just strange. Coming on here and waxing all ethereal and spooky sounding isn't really that impressive. You managed to scare one lady and slam another one. If you are a pastor I pity those sheep. You sound more like a really bad "Wizard of Oz" imitation. All that aside..I'm concerned for your soul. If you're a Christian, your theology is out there brother. If not, I will pray that God opens your eyes and ears.
mjm: one more thing...you mentioned authority..real authority isn't a position..it comes from being steeped in the scriptures and showing that forth..so much so that personality is hidden in the background...I've known few men since I've been a Christian who possess that kind of authority. My mentor was one...whenever I was in his presence..whether he knew about it or not...if there was something not right in my life...I felt immediately convicted..THAT'S real authority. As for Steve Tucker...I honestly don't know him..but I'll share this with you...I was at the CC meeting last Sunday..at 9:15 a guy I had observed several times during the meeting, stepped up to the mic and proclaimed,"I have to go teach the Bible." First impressions impress the most...I have to tell you..at the time I didn't know Steve Tucker from Adam..I only found out later that the man at the mic was him. My point is...all through the meeting his attitude was evident..his utter disdain for everyone there was all over his face. And the way he made his pronouncement...like he expected us all to stand up and walk out at the sound of his voice. Btw, I didn't sense the kind of authority I spoke of earlier..I don't know him...but he definitely left an impression...and I don't think I want to know him.
david,
If you'll read carefully the blogs i visited were by the "couple of pastor's who've come through here before"..are you "spinning" what I said?...I'm saying that tongue in cheek. I know what "spin" is. You seem like a nice enough guy...I was just curious to know from a pastor's perspective what keeps you coming back here...are you from Bellevue?
david,
Thanks. I jumped into the middle of the post addressing Hisservant-1 and was unaware of the other post that had proceeded it.
david,
btw..I don't have anything against you...I don't even know you.
david, et al.,
While I don't really care for the way blessme expressed him or herself today, I can tell you most, if not all, of what s/he's speaking is the truth. The only reason I can't say all that s/he said is the truth is that I haven't determined for myself that it all is, but I can say I have been researching everything s/he said for some time now and have determined that most of it is, unfortunately, true. Nothing s/he said was "new" to me.
Perhaps everyone's been beating around the bush too long, and blessme just couldn't hold it in any longer.
NASS
P.S. I have no idea who blessme is.
bereans,
It's being addressed. Let's leave it at that, okay?
NBBCOF
nbbcof,
I agree. I believe that at some point the magnitude of offenses can become overwhelming.
choice,
Yesterday I think it was, you asked me to offer something about worship. I've got a final this week at school, but I'll send something to you by email in a day or two if you like. Blessings.
NASS,
Would you drop me an email? Thanks.
I've been "lurking" here for several weeks, sweeping over the crowd and all of the information on this site, as well as "savingbellevue.com". I've wanted to comment on several occasions but did not take the extra time to do so after reviewing all of the communication.
There are so many topics of concern. As I see it, this whole issue is not going to end with the Communications Committee "closing up shop" because they can't take the heat. There will be further action taken by concerned members who feel led to shed LIGHT on the subject so TRUTH will be known by all.
I found it very interesting that the message given last Sunday by Steve Gaines included reference to scripture in Matthew as follows:
7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Steve Gaines did not continue with other verses that follow, such as:
7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Blessme-
SG has known for some time what the staff member did and the staff member has admitted to the immorality but refuses to step down. They are meeting this week to decide what to do.
staff member or any member...it's the same
In response to the "pastor" from North Carolina, who posted at 3:47pm today:
Yes, Steve Gaines preaches the Word (and puts on a good show), but it is obvious to many members of our church that he does not abide by the Word.
ed_t,
I have asked about the Love Offering many times and have never gotten an answer. Does ANYBODY know?
mom4, the approximate figure is $1.5 mil. I believe it was announced on a Sunday night a week or two after the Love Offering.
BlessMeWithTheTruth....my friend, I think you need to take a break from posting. I fear you frustration over these issues is coming across as quite nasty personal attacks. Hang in there, but take some time to cool off before hitting the "publish" button.
Come on, hisservant-1...I'd just like to hear a good, logical, rational explanation about why a church with nothing to hide would request non-disclosure agreements to be signed? Like every other time this gets asked, it is never answered. Provide some useful information instead of critiquing the posts of others.
Excuse me, my previous reference was to the "pastor" in North Carolina, but should have been to "minister".
bereans wrote:
"The concern here is how this sin is being addressed by the same leaders who have shown a pattern of overlooking sin."
Apparently in the same "non-way" until now, but those who are now addressing this issue need to do so privately. Please, let's just leave it at that right now and trust that it is being addressed.
"The question is: If it is being addressed, HOW is it being addressed and how SHOULD such a thing be addressed. This gets into the subject of church discipline of a staff member."
Again, please just have faith that the matter is finally being addressed now. Your second sentence suggests a fair topic for discussion. What are your thoughts about that?
Just a couple of comments, then I'm off here until tomorrow morning.
I'll try my best to keep a civil tongue in my head, but the following seem like inconsistencies to me. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will).
Perhaps everyone's been beating around the bush too long, and blessme just couldn't hold it in any longer.
NASS
In other words, NASS, a tsk-tsk to poor blessme, who exploded all over this blog in about 20 very carefully worded, stone-throwing, and specific displays of his/her lack of self control. No real censure on the part of our moderator, just a good-humored little "now, now" and on we go.
Then after several serious and seemingly reasonable requests for verification of accusations, not the least of which was the little bomb dropped about sexual immorality on our senior leadership staff -- a very serious charge that I would think any of us would want proof of rather than just allowing it to be lobbed in such a public and seemingly angry fashion -- the response is:
bereans,
It's being addressed. Let's leave it at that, okay?
NBBCOF
6:59 PM, December 06, 2006
It's okay for specifics to be demanded from one position, but not from the other?
You know, of course, now that blessme has blown all of this up, sordid details will come out, whether they are TRUTH or not. Somehow, that has a way of happening on this blog. And I'd love for someone to factually convince me that wasn't the intent behind making such an incredible, baseless accusation in the first place.
One last thought, for what it's worth (perhaps nothing to some of you, and if that's the case, that's certainly your prerogative; after all, opinions are like "noses" -- everyone has one):
I have known Donna Gaines and her parents since I was 6 years old. Her character is as fine as that of anyone I have ever known, and always has been. She is the "genuine article" when it comes to her faith (I didn't want to say "real deal" for fear someone would think I was Steve Tucker!). She's no more perfect than any of the rest of us, but she is a fine Christian and she is a loving, wise, Godly woman. It is appalling to me that she has been forced to endure the treatment levied at her loved ones by our church "family." Yet she has done so with tremendous grace and restraint, even to those of us who know her. But apparently attacking her husband wasn't enough -- now there are those who feel justified in attacking her personally, as well. You obviously do not know her, nor do you know anything about her. But for the grace of God, we all commit bloggable sin on a daily basis, but I will never believe that attacks like this against Bro. Steve and Donna and their precious family are anything but lies.
I've asked it before, but I'll ask again -- how much character assassination will satisfy?
Good night, all. Time to take a break from all this.
Got another question for hisservant-1 or any other deacon out there. Can a motion by the deacons that has been passed be tabled? This regards the pledge of support.
From what I understand from a deacon, procedures were violated by tabling a motion that had been brought up, seconded and passed. Sort of like Congress passing a law and then saying, "yeah, we passed that law, but we're waiting on the next poll results before we enforce it".
With the lack of by-laws being one of the issues here, I find a good bit of irony in this.
The key story really gets to me too.
Has anyone talked directly to the Rogers family about this?
peaceinthestorm said...
Blessme-
SG has known for some time what the staff member did and the staff member has admitted to the immorality but refuses to step down. They are meeting this week to decide what to do
Peaceinthestorm it looks like you are confirming an earlier post that flew in today.
I keep noticing a pattern in the life of this blog.
First someone posts information that is intense.
Then some start to blast the poster and say what they posted is not true.
Then someone comes along and post information that confirms the first poster`s post.
Then there`s a flurry of truthseekers that go out and find out if it is true or not.
Then it ends up being true.
Then we take the information with proof to the church.
The church does their best to cover it all up.
IS this sad or what.
I`m tired of our church just playing church, I want the real thing!
ed_t,
I agree completely with your assesment concerning our by-laws. How long do we believe that we can possibly operate with by-laws from 1929? We have reached a point where it is obvious that they are insufficent for our church.
Beyereconciled,
I agree. It borders on insanity that our deacon body will not address these issues openly and honestly. Our deacon body does not need permission from the pastor or anyone else to meet and bring those involved in these issues together to determine the truth. Why are they content to sit back and do nothing?
The reason that our deacon body is content to sit back and do nothing has little to do with continment in reality. The primary motivating factor has been fear.
Mark Sharpe has stated that he was aware of what his stand for the truth was going to cost him. He knew that there would be little or no support to back him up.
God bless the man that stands for truth even when he stands alone. GOD BLESS MARK SHARPE for the sacrafice that he made by standing for the truth.
Out of 180 deacons it would seem that there would be others that would take the same stand.
Who will God find faithful in this time?
Are there any others that will stand and say we are going to get to the bottom of these issues?
Are there any others that will say that the truth is more important than the politics?
Are there any others that would join with one another to say that we will lead our church, expose the sin before us and expel the guilty without regard to their status?
Will God not hold them accountable for the sins of omission?
It is time to fear God more than men.
NASS,
Have you been reading what I have?
It is beginning to look like we might need to find us a red heifer to burn outside the camp...
...I've asked it before, but I'll ask again -- how much character assassination will satisfy?
...In other words, NASS, a tsk-tsk to poor blessme, who exploded all over this blog in about 20 very carefully worded, stone-throwing, and specific displays of his/her lack of self control. No real censure on the part of our moderator, just a good-humored little "now, now" and on we go.
Your response seems uncharacteristic for you.
Apparently you, too, are aware of this situation at least to some degree.
...still smiling. Who gets the church? The winner or loser of this battle?
here is my BIG problem. You and several others really scare me sometimes and that is the honest truth. you post all this fun loving stuff and all these feel good jokes etc. you also seem at times to be very honest and gentle people. then, something changes. then you and others support hate filled evil and personal attacks posted by BlessMewithTheTruth and several others on here.
Lord save us!!! How much ugliness is enough??? Father forgive us, for we are all men of unclean lips!
God's Word declares a woe on those who declare good to be evil, and evil to be good. Nass, you're the one in charge of this forum. You'll be held accountable for EVERY careless word spoken here. I don't envy you.
I'm praying for you, my sister.
When what Blessme alluded to hits--and it will-- It will be time for Steve Gaines to step down too. The fact that he let this go for ANY length of time without dealing with it will underscore what many have been saying about his inability to lead this church. One Sunday should not have passed. This is not a time to posture. This is a time to grieve. There was no excuse for not dealing with this immediately. NO EXCUSE.
Sackcloth&ashes,
I will be surprised if there is not a loop hole to exploit. There always seems to be a debate over what "is" is.
After many days of trying to figure out how to post, I think that maybe i have it figured out. Regarding Steve Tucker: I have known for over a decade that the outward ( holy version) does not match the inward ( holier than thou) version of the man. All of his eye rolling and snide remarks from the communist, oops, i mean communication committee came as no surprise to me. Unfortunately, after Dr. Rogers died, he used the opportunity to seize power and run with it. I do not understand what greed and power do to a man that would make them defend and protect a man who treated our precious Dr. Rogers in such a hurtful manner. It hurts my heart for Dr. Rogers, to know that he had made a mistake before he died. How sad he must have been to know that he was leaving his flock that he loved and cared for with a wolf in sheep's clothing, but could do nothing about it from his death bed.
fedupatbbc,
I suspect it may have begun before Dr. Rogers even announced his retirement. I think that inner circle decided the direction they wanted the church to go, and as soon as Dr. Rogers retired, they went and found themselves a preacher that fit their bill.
Israel wanted a king...God gave them one...Saul..we all know how that turned out.
I am not a member of Bellevue but have appreciated the legacy of the church over the years. I was a member of FBC Atlanta when Dr Stanley became pastor and remember the turmoil of those days.
In this issue I have not drawn conclusions but have mostly read and prayed for all interested folks.
QUESTION: Was the Bellevue congregation aware of the candidate before the vote calling Pastor Gaines? If so, how long?
I ask this because the first thing I did when I learned of this controversy was to google the Garden City FBC website. A casual perusing of that church's site it seems would have given an indication of the style of ministry Pastor Gaines would bring to Bellevue.
As a pastor now for 35 years I know it is hard to know the relevant facts from the outside... so I will let the folks at Bellevue handle that issue. But I do pray that in all of this that God would get the glory -- whatever that takes.
And ultimately it is the reputation of the cause of Christ and the glory of God that is paramount. The Hebrew word for honor means to "add weight to." May each response here be focused on adding weight to the reputation of Our Lord.
Prayers for wisdom and Spirit-led communication to all.
Pastor Steve J. (Baton Rouge)
I am wondering if Steve Tucker would have been quite so brave to defend the drinking of alcohol in the presence of Dr. Rogers, as he did in the CC on Sunday evening.
anotheronepraying wrote:
"Was the Bellevue congregation aware of the candidate before the vote calling Pastor Gaines? If so, how long?"
It was announced on July 3, 2005 that a candidate had been found, but they wouldn't reveal his name. They said this was to protect his current congregation. They said he'd preach in both services the following Sunday morning and that a vote would be taken at the end of each service to call him. It was this tactic that raised red flags for a number of people -- before they ever knew the candidate's name. I will say that most people seemed to think it would be Steve Gaines, but in reality, the congregation didn't know for certain until the morning he preached which was the same time the vote was taken.
fedupatbbc,
Please elaborate.
anotheronepraying,
Thanks for your wise words and your prayers.
nbbcof,
I sent you an email.
febupatbbc,
To answer your question, No, at least not to his face, behind his back, Yes.
I say this based on the stance that he had taken years ago on the abortion issue. It was his opinion then that this issue had no business being discussed in a church forum because it might deter from the gospel. He viewed it as a political issue that did not need to be addressed by the church. However, he never questioned Dr. Rogers for preaching strongly against abortion.
Pastor Steve J. (Baton Rouge)
QUESTION: Was the Bellevue congregation aware of the candidate before the vote calling Pastor Gaines? If so, how long?
ANSWER: NO
Pastor Steve,
We did not know until the meeting. The Pastor Search Committee brought the man and his wife to the pulpit and introduced them as the man they had selected, they read his credentials and told a story about how they all were in agreement and felt that this was the man God had for Bellevue. We as a congregation had lived under Dr Rogers who was a man of superior integrity and honesty, we had faith and trusted the committee just as we did Dr Rogers and followed willingly in support of our new pastor. Little did we know.....
Dr Rogers did live to see the consequences of calling Steve Gaines to Bellevue, and there are confirmations that he even went to him and told him that he had made a mistake, to no avail. If a man as Godly as Adrian Rogers was duped, how could we have discerned the matter? Although there were those who immediatley felt the spiritual "check" in their spirit - me included - there has been absolutely nothing that we have been able to do following the scriptual guidelines set forth in Matthew 18. We have not had a business meeting since Steve Gaines came. He has full control and shuts us out.
I do want to commend you on your post. It is a rare thing when we get a person with a meek and gentle spirit who does not immediately chastise us for our posts. You may not agree with all that is said and done, but you did not arbitrarily condem us. I thank you.
In Christ Alone,
MOM4
At the cc meeting with the orchestra on Sunday evening, the question was asked of Steve Tucker about a certain staff member ( high up staff member) being seen in a cordova restaurant, with a bottle of wine on the table. Although the staff member was not reported to have been drinking the wine himself, he picked up the tab for the person at his table who WAS drinking the wine. Steve Tucker danced around the question and said that ' well, if you might alienate someone who wants to drink by not allowing them to drink in your prescense, and blah blah blah, then it is ok to purchase wine as a gift for someone..blah blah blah. and my question is, ..WHAT ABOUT CAUSING YOUR BROTHER OR SISTER TO STUMBLE? Apparently, if Steve Tucker is speaking for the church..do we now have a new policy about the consumption of alcohol? What lengths will these guys go to in order to defend the status quo? I wonder if that CC meeting with the orchestra was recorded? Anyone know?
brokenheart: sounds like more he said she said to me. sorry
maybe: again, thank you for your heart and for your posts.
headoutofthesand,
One thing's for certain...it sure has brought a lot of stuff bubbling to the surface.
hisservant-1,
You have repeatedly stated that you were aware of most of the things that have been verified on this blog and yet you defend each one of them. Please tell me that you are not one of our deacons.
Thanks for the explanation of the call process.
Having been on both sides of the pastoral call process I have concluded that it is delicate at best and a real balancing act between the interests of the candidate's present congregation and the congregation doing the search.
I have often remarked that good churches are often poor at doing pastoral searches... because they do not have much experience (as is true with Bellevue).
Again, thanks for clearing up the timeline.
Blessings,
Pastor Steve J.
Correction: I have been a pastor for over 30 years (some days it seems like 35!)
anotheronepraying,
I think most everybody at BBC knew that the pastor search was pretty much a sham...they decided who they wanted before the "search" began...it just took a while to convince him to come. Then all the hush hush about who it was. It really was no big secret..I think they would have brought him in no matter how the congregation voted.
NBBCOF hasn't received any mail since 10:06 tonight and hasn't received "choice's" message yet.
i have not defended everything and I very seldom even address certain issues. my BIG problem is the hate filled way you and others are going about things.
Tim,
It's pointless..they're going to defend, spin, deflect no matter what.
After all, either God is sovereign and in control of this mess, or else He isn't--in which case we're all in trouble, wouldn't you agree? :)
I would agree. If God ever starts biting His fingernails....
Pastor SteveJ.
hisservant1,
You've got to be a democrat...that's their tactic...never answer...just criticize and accuse the other side of slander and hate.
headoutofthesand,
It seems to be a husband/wife team.
NASS,
I sent you an email earlier..it hasn't been bounced back.
Nass,
Do you have an answer for the 10:06 mail?
Oh I'm a civil guy...but right now I'm a fed up guy...fed up with denials but no answers...accusations of slander and hate...stated hatefully...and btw...All of Grace is the title of a book...CH Spurgeon...I'm sure you know him...salvation=all of grace.
hisservant-1 wrote:
"i have not defended everything and I very seldom even address certain issues. my BIG problem is the hate filled way you and others are going about things."
You're almost right when you say you "very seldom even address certain issues." Actually, you never address any issues. You won't even answer a simple question. Several people have asked you (and accused you) numerous times of being a deacon. Yet, you never answer nor do you deny that you are. Therefore, I assume you are.
You have made your one point over and over and over ad nauseum. Besides, you said several days ago that you weren't going to be with us much longer. You've made your one point. Why, then, are you still here? Mr. Deacon, it's time for you to go!
telos,
I answered your 10:06 message at 10:30.
allofgrace,
I answered your 9:44 message at 10:01. That was the last one I received from you.
allofgrace,
I don't believe that it would be a democrat, even they believe in free elections. The slogan I believe that they use is "Vote Early & Vote Often".
NASS,
Precisely..that's what's getting old...not addressing issues...just criticizing those who do.
Tim,
LOL...you are correct sir.
NASS,
I don't have anything..try resending.
Pastor Steve J.
Would you consider pastoring Bellevue??? We need a good man for the job!
No thanks. I am in the 6th year following a godly founding pastor who lead the church for 29 years.
The transition was not easy for all members and a group of about 70 left and started another church. That church is doing well and they have called two pastors who are friends of mine. We have a positive relationship with them and see it as a Barnabas-Paul separation.
Last Sunday our church voted to merge with a struggling church to provide a home for our second location. The vote was 584 to 1. The church joining us voted 26-0.
We were ready (in days) to sign contracts to build a 8 million dollar facility when the struggling pastor called us (October 31st). Their facility is 50% larger than what we had designed.
I share that to say that God often trumps our plans and opens avenues that are unexpected as we walk by faith. I have thought a lot about James 4:13-17 these past weeks.
"Instead you ought to say, if the Lord wills we will live and do this and that."
May His will be done at Bellevue, whatever that might be.
Pastor Steve J.
I think Yahoo must be having problems tonight.
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