The last thread is approaching 500 comments and needs to be cut. Please continue here.
Please try to maintain some semblance of civility, and please don't feed the bears or the trolls!
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
About Me
- New BBC Open Forum
- This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church and the SBC can come to comment and exchange ideas. Anonymous comments are welcome, but it is respectfully requested that instead of choosing the "Anonymous" option those who want to post comments without logging in select a unique screen name. This lets everyone tell the difference between one anon and another without revealing any personal information. Under the box where you compose your comment where it says "Choose an identity," just check "Name/URL" and type in the screen name of your choice. You can leave the URL field blank. It would be helpful if you'd use the same screen name for any subsequent comments. This makes reading and following discussions easier, helps avoid confusion, and doesn't result in one person being credited for writing something s/he didn't. Comments by posters whose only purpose is to disrupt (i.e. trolls) will be subject to deletion. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
444 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 444 Newer› Newest»bellevue friend
Thank you for your sincere love for our church.
Our church is in the middle of a heart attack.
Many parts of the body have dialed 911 and no one the few operators who pick up the phone, or placing our calls on HOLD while we reamin in cardiac arrest.
We need your prayers.
Tim
What ate the qualifications for being a deacon at Bellevue?
I know you can not be a deacon at Bellevue if you marry a woman who has been divorced but I am not sure of the other qualifications.
Can a deacon be a man who has ever been divorced?
Does a deacon have to resign if his wife divorces
him?
I hear some saying everyone has sinned and that we should just accept things as they and I don`t agree at all.
If the church overlooks a potential deacon for marrying a woman who has been divorced, then why would they not want to hold this type of accountability in everything?
If a man is lost and gets married to a woman who is lost, and that woman has been divoiced before, then they both get saved, the church still will not allow that man to be a deacon at Bellevue, even in a state of repentance.
I see such hypocritcy in the middle of this.
One man is held to the letter of the law, while the others are held to nothing at all.
choice is yours: who are the "trolls" you are referring to?
also, you might want to go back and read this blog. it is obvious what the world is seeing and reading and it is far from what you posted
posted: Can a deacon be a man who has ever been divorced?
REPLY: no. just want to make sure I understand. why all the questions about Deacons and divorce etc?
bellevue friend
Again I want to thank you for your insight, wisdom, and prayers on all our behalf.
If you are willing to talk in person to any of us, please tell others how to contact you by phone or e-mail.
I think it could be helpful to have a minister outside the church to help in this time of distrust and disaster.
interesting. several days ago, we had a minister on here, david, that everyone tried to run off and told him to butt out of our business
With all the talk about the misuse of money on hospitality, missions, ect, I wanted to offer up some of my thoughts and ideas.
With all the frugal families at Belleveue, we could start clipping coupons for the church!
There are a lot of restaurant coupons available all year long!
Instead of sending funds to another church who has a mission to feed the poor and needy of Memphis, why not start our own mission where we have the following:
Onsite Food Pantry
Onsite Clothing Shop
Onsite counseling for adoption vs abortion
Onsite Housing for the Homeless
Onsite Work Thearpy
A directory of members who will offer emergency housing
This way we do get to directly influence those we help for Christ.
We don`t need to go to South America to find a mission field!
If we build onsite ministries for the needy, they will come.
The question is, do we really want to get our hands dirty?
I think many do, I think some do not.
To Ace, Ace, Ace & Ace, as well as Hisservant and his/her multiple personalities:
What you have done here is prove your desperation, as well as revealed to me several things concerning the church administration:
1) This naked attempt to sow confusion and discord among your fellow church members/brothers and sisters in Christ shows at best a lack of love and at worst a motivation that BBC is your personal empire, and not a body of believers. This further erodes the credibility of the “communications committee”.
2) You’ve further confirmed my suspicions that have grown over the past year that the current church administration subscribes to the management philosophy “The end justifies the means”.
3) This is not the behavior of men with clean consciences. I can’t help but wonder who is the true Sanballat and Tobiah. The Pastor has used this analogy from the pulpit to refer to MS&Co, but help me here, did Nehemiah send out “counter” disinformationaries (I just love making up words) to confuse and try to turn Sanballat and Tobiah against each other or did he just keep building the wall? Another thing.
To NASS, as well as the rest of the NBBCOF community, both active and lurking:
James 5:16b“The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
I do not claim to be a righteous man. I am not perfect by any measure, however I propose a 24 hour cooling off period where comments are turned off, beginning at 11:59 tonight, and ending at 11:59 Wednesday night. I call on everyone here, from all of Ace’s personalities, to Mike Bratton, to Mark Sharpe, the entire deacon body (inner and outer circles) and everyone else to use this as a time of fasting and prayer. Anyone who would like to meet Wednesday night for corporate prayer, perhaps the seminary will open up their chapel to us, or someone will open their home.
I would encourage you to attend the Communication Committee meetings, both the church wide ones, and the small group ones, such as the choir. Things are being addressed at these meetings that have not been addressed in the blogs. And should not be.
To those who are not BBC members, in Memphis and around the world, you too should spend the day praying with and for us. Pray that God will show himself mighty in this conflict. That not only will the truth prevail, but that there will be healing and reconciliation in the body, and that God will be glorified. Remember, many of Paul’s writings in the Bible were directly or indirectly the result of conflicts among believers. God has used those conflicts to speak to us through the centuries. Good can come from all this. It should be very clear to those of you who have spiritual discernment that the issues are much deeper than who charged what to what credit card. Those are just distractions.
I propose another rest period, the length to be at the discretion of the blog administrator, over the Thanksgiving holiday so that everyone can spend it with their families, without wondering what they are missing, or keep going to check ‘the blog”. At the very least, the only comments allowed over the Thanksgiving holiday should be completely unrelated to this controversy. Perhaps just a “What are we thankful for” topic like the Dr. Rogers memorial thread.
Remember who is in control. As our former Pastor was fond of saying, “The Holy Trinity never meets in emergency session” and “Where man rules, God overrules”.
Happy Thanksgiving.
blessmewiththetruth: are you a Bellevue Member?
hiserpant: can you please explain what in the world you are talking about? so you are saying ace and myself are doing this to ourselves?
BLESSMEWITHTHETRUTH said...
"With all the talk about the misuse of money on hospitality, missions, ect, I wanted to offer up some of my thoughts and ideas.
With all the frugal families at Belleveue, we could start clipping coupons for the church!
There are a lot of restaurant coupons available all year long!"
Maybe SG and company could use some of these coupons and save the church money-I'll dig up a few from Ruths Chris and maybe Ducks we wont bother with low class resturants like Chillies or Logans.That would humilate our leadership to lower themselves to eat with everyday common people like those of who sit in the pews.
As for a food pantry I really don't understand why BBC doesn't
have one. Years ago at another church I worked in that churches food pantry.It is a great program there are people in this city with great need and this is one of those programs that work, at my home we donate to the food bank because I have seen just how much good it does.
Yo those in the leadership that read this blog why not start up a food pantry at BBC
Speaking of accountability, where is Harry Smith and his wife, Jeff Arnold and the other leaders at on Wednesday nights? I am there most every Wednesday night and I never see them.
I know people look for our leaders on Wednesday nights, they cannot be found anywhere.
Bellevue is a big church but no one can account for these men. Do these men have volleyball games or horseshoe events to go to with the pastor?
Should we stop having church on Wednesday nights so we can be with our families like the pastor?
A requirment for a Deacon is to be at Church on Wednesday nights. When is the last time Harry Smith and his wife have been to the service or a Wednesday night class. This is not being hard, but our leaders should be held accountable.
To everyone at Bellevue....Those in leadership, those who wish to be, and to those who will never want to be after all of this terrible conflict!!!!
Let's pray for an impartial, neutral, non-Bellevue affiliated, non-Pastor affiliated, sincere, seasoned, compassion-filled servant of God to come and hold a meeting for honest-to-God conflict resolution.
Who could do such a thing? I don't know. Drop a few names in the bucket. But, pick out a "Man of Peace" to bring this "war" to a close.
Let this man be a man of unquestionned integrity, humble spirit, quick to listen and slow to speak. Let Bellevue recover from what the devil thinks is her doom, and let her shine ever purer and ever brighter than she ever has before.
God forgive us all for the many ways in which we fail you everyday. How grateful I am that you see me with eyes of mercy and not judgement. Thank you for loving me, Lord.
May the presence of Christ fill every room I walk into as I seek to glorify you in all that I say and do.
1 Thessalonians 5:17
"Pray without ceasing"
Leaving a Godly Heritage to our children.
Part of the Godly heritage we leave to our children are the stands we take in life.
The current atmosphere at Bellevue does not afford our child a safe enviroment in which to learn Christianity close up and personal, where it really counts.
There are many Sunday school teachers who are doing a great job but way up high, there are those who are just not following the Bible and our children are learning from what they see.
When they see their parents taking a stand for the truthm, they are learning how to stand for God.
For those who are too shy to take an open stand, remember you children and the Godly heritage that you can leave for them.
Would any of us want our children to be dealing with all of this years from now?
If sin within the leadership of our church is not dealt with now, our children may play follow the leaders and end up taking the wrong way.
Remember the children.
Take a Stand.
Bellevue Leaders need to confess their sins, repent, and accept the consequences of their sin.
We need to confess our sins, repent, and accept the consequences of their sin.
Let`s teach what we say we believe or stop saying we believe it.
Why not look at the attendance records of our leadership? Let the record speak for these men. Where are you on Wednesday nights and be careful because we may be checking, which is really holding our leadership accountable. That by the way comes with being a lesder.
Where has our new associate pastor, David Coombs and family been the last 52 Wednesday nights?
Ask him, and see for your self.
whereareyou posted: Speaking of accountability, where is Harry Smith and his wife, Jeff Arnold and the other leaders at on Wednesday nights? I am there most every Wednesday night and I never see them.
REPLY: are you joking? Some are teaching classes, in Committee Meetings, and many of them are spending hours and hours and hours and hours on trying to deal with the mess goig on. I find it unreal that you even act these questions. Harry Smith and others are going above and beyond. they are working day and night. They are sacrificing TONS of their time, family time, work etc for this. you are right plenty do not come on Wed. and are not involved like they should be, but the ones you have listed are not in that catagory.
I know people look for our leaders on Wednesday nights, they cannot be found anywhere.
REPLY: they are always there. trust me, they would rather be in the service than be having to deal with this stuff.
Bellevue is a big church but no one can account for these men. Do these men have volleyball games or horseshoe events to go to with the pastor?
REPLY: more dispect. you have NO right. like most on here, you might need to look in the mirror and stop focusing on others.
A requirment for a Deacon is to be at Church on Wednesday nights. When is the last time Harry Smith and his wife have been to the service or a Wednesday night class. This is not being hard, but our leaders should be held accountable.
REPLY: you need to loom harder. you could not be more wrong.
choice: and who are the "trolls"??
Last question,
Look at the attandence records of these men on Wed. nights for the past several years and see?
Once you do that, then come back and answer this question.
Are there wives in the committee meetings too?
Answer is no, they may be at the volleyball games or at home in the chair.
choice: I will be honest. your posts are very disturbing. very! they actually sound scary to me. EVERYTHING you post is against someone and name calls etc.
you are very deceiving. you post what seems to be good things with venum spread ALL through it. very scary.
you can say whatever you would like, but your post do not respresent anything of Christ. Christ does not deceive. Christ does not name call. and on and on
how dare you use prayer in the way you have in you posts. so insincere.
I can not answer your question about Harry Smith.
Is this the same Harry Smith that took the Whitmire`s private letter and passed it around to his friends at Bellevue?
I`m talking about the private letter that they sent to tell about how they had been harmed by the pastor and his now notorious yes men.
The letter that pastor steve gaines called the Whitmite`s on the carpet for the day of Pastor Adrian Rogers funeral.
If it is, I don`t really care where he is anymore.
whereareyou: suprise, just another finger pointer with facts. I know where many are because I see them.
you make us believe you have "info". bring it to the table or drop it. put your money where your mouth is.
that is the problem. very few on here can and or will do that. they talk the talk and have NO walk to go with it. none.
these men you bring up. many are also in youth events, teaching classes, attending classes etc.
you owe Harry Smith and others an apology.
Choice is Yours
I have always appreciated your contribution to this group.
Please Continue to send your messages as the Lord leads you to.
HISSERVANT-1,
Would you please just "SHUT UP."
You have already proved what you are and whose you are.
You talk much without saying anyting and it is obvious that you don't really know anything.
It is not enough to hi-jack a church, now you seek to hi-jack this blog.
Yours unapologizingly with a final word, "SHUT UP"
Tell us which classes these men have been teaching or attending on Wednesday nights for the past several yeare and I will check it out. If you prove us wrong, we will these men, Harry Smith, Jeff Arnold and their wives an apology. You have your work cut out here and I will save you some trouble, they are a no show.
Have they been in committee meetinhs with their wives for the past several years on Wednesday night? Dont think so.
WOW! to say the Lord leads someone to post venum like that. if you like his posts, you might want to change your name, because that is not want Choice wants according to his posts.
NBBCOF,
Perhaps it is about time to pull the plug on this one. There are folks here that have a legitimate reason to be here and are sick and tired of the idiocy.
whereareyou posted: Tell us which classes these men have been teaching or attending on Wednesday nights for the past several yeare and I will check it out. If you prove us wrong, we will these men, Harry Smith, Jeff Arnold and their wives an apology. You have your work cut out here and I will save you some trouble, they are a no show.
REPLY: wow. ha ha ha ha ha. you come here with those rumors or whatver you would call them, with NOTHING to back them up and how you want me to go get info to prove you wrong? how funny. so you admit you posted this stuff about these men with NO facts??
Have they been in committee meetinhs with their wives for the past several years on Wednesday night? Dont think so.
REPLY: just more lies and rumors. I see these men all the time. I do not think you want to go down the road of who serves and attends church etc.
some miss the service even more now because of meetings and committee's etc. Brother Steve has tried to move everything to either Sunday or Wed. so we can spend more time doing family things etc.
Tim posted: Folks,
Has anyone had any problems recently with any of the staff divas?
Just curious it seems unusual that we would have men behaving so poorly and that have saintly wives. Of course, a lot of this makes men to be shameful creatures indeed.
REPLY: so now you are trying to bring up other issues to try and hurt people and their families?? and you disrespect them and call their wives divas?? some of your posts are truly embarrassing.
i have seen VERY few posts from you that have not been full of disrespect, personal attacks, self, flesh, and I could on and on.
I hope and pray that you are never in a positon of authority at Bellevue. It simply amazes me that you and others can post stuff and not see the truth behind what you post. You post with the same HORRIBLE attitude you are accusing some of the staff of having. This blog and many on it are one huge double standard. You talk and act in the very same ways that you complain others have done.
Your entire goal is to find everything wrong that you possible can. We talk about politics being dirty. This blog and some on it seem to want to rival the latest Corker/Ford race. unreal
I forgot, this is the peaceful Christian blog tying to help Bellevue stand for "truth".
what a joke!
I really could care less if they're at Wednesday's service or not. Another non-starter decoy as far as issues go. This 25k dollar thing isn't going away as a symptom of the over all problem in the church which is a lack of accountability and transparency with the finances and the ensuing stonewalling that has occurred as members naturally question what is going on. As the number of hits on savingbellevue.com is about to pass 300k more and more members will realize that something is going wrong in the church. Even though I've called for the leadership to resign I still hold out hope that they can resolve this somehow. At this point though I'm begining to feel resigned to the fact that nothing may come of all this other than my family finding a new church. A smaller church. A church where my dissention to any vote might actually count. A church not quite so obviously run like a corporation. I honestly feel that the root cause of all this is the size of Bellevue. The fact that so many of the members can be anonymous and lost in a sea of others gives the leadership the ability to do as they please. It would appear that the Lord is in the process of culling the flock.
welcome back Tim
Do your research on years 200 through 2004 on Wednesday nights. Dont be afraid of the results you get. I did my research and it saddens me as these are our leaders and how wwe have been disappointed with attendance.
These men may be good men as I dont know them personally. But the record speaks for itself no matter how you defend.
Hisservant-1
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source di·va (dv) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. di·vas or di·ve (-v)
An operatic prima donna.
A very successful singer of nonoperatic music: a jazz diva.
[Italian, from Latin dva, goddess, feminine of dvus, god. See dyeu- in Indo-European Roots.]
Why must you always see evil in everything? You are so paranoid and confused.
Does it not seem a logical question in a Southern Baptist Church to know if anyone has been subjected to obnoxious operatic prima donna singing?
Good Grief man/woman/whatever, get a grip!
CAUTION!!!!
This group of bloggers is more than happy to go out and find the truth so when you ask for the facts, don`t be surprize when the facts show up here and don`t be surprized that your sure and doubtful posts might be the very reason why we are obligated to post the facts on this blog.
You have come to a place where truth is held UP by most of the group, so be ready to hear the truth if you come here.
Let`s just look at the Doyal Long case. Now there are three messages posted on the other thread to back up the so called "alleged rudness and sinful way in which he dumped out hate on a member of Bellevue.
Then today we have the letter from Life Choices to back up where they stand on the $25000.00 donation form Bellevue and why they are taking that stand!
Those who like to preach that all of our concerns are just allegations are quickly finding out that most all of these so called allegations are turning out to ne walking, talking truths if they are open to truth.
Let just say that you have entered into a Spiritual CSI office.BELLEVUE CSI
"talking points?? wow. I think there is plenty of evidence of "talking points" from the group on this blog as well."
Do you get a lot of exercise that way? Jumping to conclusions. Notice that I didn't mention any groups just the term 100%.
"you are right, blind loyalty to any man is bad. not sure your point"
Think about it - you'll figure it out.
David B, not Pastor David
Tim:
AMEN!!
hisservant-1: You talk about vennom? Your tone today is also not very Christian like. Ask your wife or children if what you have posted today is ok with them. Please respect other people that post, they are entitled to their opinions. After all they are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
Do you have a job? Does your employer know how much time you are spending on this one blog?
I am also thinking that maybe we should shut this thing down for Thanksgiving to give some time to lower their blood pressure and hopefully spend some time in prayer.
There is so much TRUTH out there over some of this stuff. Like I said before all this other stuff is nothing compared to what they did to the Whitmires. And to top it off the infamous $25k check to FUMC. I guess some folks just want to see a Mack truck run over them before they will admit that something is not right.
I had two deacon friends contact me today that have been behind Dr. Gaines and now they are having second thoughts. This check thing is only going to get a lot nastier. How much more will it take before some positive changes take place?
hisservant-1: Before you burn up the keyboard responding, remember one thing; I am your brother-in-Christ and I love you. I do respect your opinions even if I may not always agree with you. Will you do the same for me and others here? I love you brother.
What we have folks is elder rule by a close knit group of power brokers. The congregation needs to be awakened to this. I agree with Bin Wonderin:
We need:
1. An apology to the congregation for mocking us at Union City. After all, some of us didn't fall off the cabbage truck yesterday!
2. An admission the cheerleader tickets are not a legit moving expense and reimbursement to BBC.
3. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.
4. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. Free tickets for the host and wife are fine but not for anybody else
5. A monthly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. Transcripts on the web within a week;
6. A transparent committee selection process.
7. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.
8. The signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services to the church. These people should be recused from committees that review bids for their services.
9. No church credit cards. Pay your own way and then turn in an expense report like I do at my job.
AND I would like to add...
10. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... AND any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!
11. The END of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members.
12. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members. Also:
13. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.
14. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.
15. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.
This would be a good start in my opinion!
I agree with 25+years@bbc.
In as much as there is a God and neither am I He nor are you, it is difficult to say that Gaines is devinely appointed. Thirty years ago Dr Rogers and the entire Convention was tested over maintaining the integrity of the word. The test for this generation is the integrity of worship. We are failing the test! The conversion to the Third Wave Movement theology must be stopped.
Gaines was hired to be a pastor and as such he is guilty of malpractice. Hired is the operative word, you can no more say that he was devinely appointed than I can say that he was not. In all employment situations, if a person does not perform as required then we need to move on to the next person. For those of you who believe in the devine appointment of individuals to rule over us, please refer to a document known as the Declaration of Independence. We have no devinely appointed leader except Lord Jesus.
Who here truly believes we have a fifty-fifty mix of worship at Bellevue? Then explain to me why in the past choir members have been so hurt by the new worship form that you could see them crying in the parking lot after practice? Why have many choir and orchestra members been so offended by the worship that after a lifetime of service they can no longer attend the services?
Gaines may very well fill the seats but a wise man once said if you want to know which way God is moving find out the way the crowd is moving and you go in the opposite direction.
Why can't we have an open and free discussion of the issues in church? Why must we rely on blogs or the (mis)communications committee to have our issues addressed? Do we fear the truth? Will we indeed find that the emperor has no clothes!
Do you know I spent 30 minutes trying to find a question form. To God be the glory.
How many babies can you kill for $25,000?
Amen, iamabelievertoo. We are failing at worship and no one seems to know it or care. I have read the Al Mohler worship series on WTB's kudzu site and I highly recommend it. It is an eye opener. He writes about the problem of seeing worship as entertainment. The theme of the series is recovering authentic worship.
I think some of you should go to read the hate mail on the "Conduct becoming a minister thread"
Is is astounding hate at it`s best.
hisservant
please tell us what you think of life choicedsd isaprovial of BBC's gift to Fumc. Do you dare to to have the courage to tell us how wrong it was .or will you defend it,to keep your staff job at BBC.tell us hisservent what is more important to you your job or the truth?
Wayne
Someone just called and asked me a good question to pass on. Since the Board Of Directors are the legal people in the church. Why are they not on display to answer our question . Some of our famlies questions may be viewed that way.
I don`t think there can be true worship before there is true repentance.
How can we find out who our Church gives money to?
gofigure said...
Someone just called and asked me a good question to pass on. Since the Board Of Directors are the legal people in the church. Why are they not on display to answer our question . Some of our famlies questions may be viewed that way.
5:34 PM, November 21, 2006
Because then they may be forced to tell the truth . Then what do you think SG will do to them
I guess SG is the new pope.
gofigure said...
I guess SG is the new pope.
5:41 PM, November 21, 2006
Looks like it , maybe we need a reformation
If a young girl ends up at Bellevue and hear that abortions are wrong but isn`t quite ready to leave the idea of aborting her child....
Then later this girl ends up at FUMC and hears that Bellevue donates to them....
Then this girl decides that since Bellevue thinks this place is being blessed by Bellevue with the members money, that it must be a good place for advice....
Then she listens to the pastor of FUMC and decides abortion is not so bad....
Then she ends up getting an abortion and KILLS HER BABY...
BELLEVUE WILL PARTAKE IN THE SIN OF KILLING BABIES
Everytime it`s our turn to place those little crosses in front of the church, I will remember the $25000 donation that just may have added some few new crosses to the Bellevue lawn.
GOD helps us all.
Amen BLESSMEWITHTHETRUTH
how sad that a church lune fumc can claim BBC as supporter
SG remember that you known by the company you keep
Wayne
Speaking of the Pope
At least he stands against abortion
Wayne
Do you think we are keeping company with Bellevue as long as our membership is there?
I wonder how it feels to the members of BBC who is are part of Life Choices either as staff or vol. after this fisaco.
Wayne
beyereconciled,
If we allow the leadership to do such a thing and do nothing about it, then yes we are as guilty as they are.
It amazes me that the official story on this one is "ignorance". That excuse just doesn't cut it. Back to the drawing board fellows, you need to come up with another reasonable and logical explanation on this one.
The fellow that hand delivered the check to them is well familar with the inner cities ministries or at least he is supposed to be. It looks like he would have had enough God given sense to tell the staff that they were wrong. Unless, he didn't see a problem with it himself.
I have a feeling that this is not the first time a donations from Bellevue has found it`s way to FUMC or a church like it.
Just wait, it will come out!
Just another comment,
It is also amazing, and quite telling, that we have any deacons that didn't know about this before it happened that claim to be sorting the facts out.
Stand up and be MEN. You don't have to have all the facts on this one to get down off the fence and put your feet on the ground. The only facts that you need at this point are who's fannie is out on the street. PERIOD.
After hearing terms like "mistake of the mind,not of the heart" and the "ignorance". for excuses I wonder if Clinton hasn't been cloned.Then there are the shills like hisservent,jcsuitt ace,ace2,ace2 ace3 ace ect.Who blindly follow every word and never let things like morals get in the way.
As I am writing this I am beginning to realize that is so deep that for the life of me I don't how wil this ever be cleaned up. Just look at all of this and what has gone on.What about the disdain and indeference of the ministers to their flock( and their abuse to those who have the nerve to call them with questions).
How can I let my family sit under a pastor who tells us not to do what he has done ie. trespassing . lying to the congration, giving money to pro abortion pro gay narriage churches and them tell us that this is sinfull.
Folks I not by nature a quitter but I need to find a safe place for my family I cannot in good
concious expose my children to this. I now know that it time to leave.
To those of you who will continue the fight you will be in my fervent prayers,may our Lord in Heaven bless all of you for your bravery. All of you would have stood with Martin Luther.Sad to say that our Baptist church leaders would have sided with the pope.
Wayne
.
Just something to think on
If a man hits your car and totals it and gets out of the car and says he`s sorry and then walks away, would anyone of you just say ok or would you be quick to ask for his name, phone number, insutance company, call the police, ect....after you make sure he is not injured and with the stipulation that you are not dead.
hammer,
I am sorry to hear that. I have children myself and am staying and showing them that their father will battle for the truth.
I feel that they need to know that I will battle for those that can not battle for themselves as well. We have quite a few seniors in our church and their wisdom is worth keeping not running out of the church. I know what this church was and has been for me and my family before this point, and it will be by the Grace of God again.
I won't give up unless God directs me otherwise and He would have to do some pretty strong directing to get me to stop.
God Bless. I understand your decision. Please remember and pray for those of us that are left behind.
Once upon a time there was a church that burned down. The community was saddened, because it had many important outreaches to the poor and needy of the city.
A bigger church that had A LOT of money decided to help out the church that burned down and gave it some money to use as the smaller church saw fit.
Some people in the bigger church were upset because they knew the smaller church was liberal and would most likely start an abortion clinic with the money.
The End
formerworkshipper,
Nice story
Except for one small detail.
God ain't real thrilled about it either. I think I'm gonna stand on his side on this one.
We have come a long way since last Thanksgiving. Last year at this time we were all in mourning over the loss of Dr. Rogers. Little did we realize what lay ahead for us in the coming months.
We learned a lot in 2006, did we not? We learned that our beloved Jim Whitmire was forced into early retirement. We came to realize that the Rick Warren’s Forty Days of Purpose study that we had completed was more than a church wide devotional. We have learned about church government and our lack thereof. We have learned that our church’s finances were not being handled properly. We found out that many of our deacons and former staff members lost their positions because they questioned church policies. We have seen friends called in and their jobs threatened because they weren’t tithing. We learned a lot about our new pastor as we witnessed his treating two of our deacons in a threatening way. We have heard him speak disrespectfully of our church to out of town audiences. We have heard him accuse of us witchcraft because we asked questions of him and the deacon officers. We have witnessed lay ministers and officials of our church behaving in ways we never would have believed possible.
And now we approach another Thanksgiving.
Please teach us Lord, what you would have us learn from these trials. Forgive us for our sin, and purify us, Lord, as we give thanks to you always and for all things.
Martin Luther refers to Matthew 18
Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation
(1520)
The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.
First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.
Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.
Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...
Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.
.... The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . . If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.
25+
Amen. There are no powers that can constrain the mighty force of Christ.
None.
AND we have learned not to blindly trust leaders of any church
How long will the wolves ne allowed to prey upon the Bellevue flock?
The hurting flock prays while the wolves in leadership prey.
Note Luther's words (from above full quotation):
Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.
I don`t know about the Christmas tree but I all for throwing our the TURKEYS who are pecking the flock away.
We need more than a forum in cyberspace... we need some business meetings! In my opinion of course.
25+yrs@BBC said...
We need more than a forum in cyberspace... we need some business meetings! In my opinion of course.
7:32 PM, November 21, 2006
I agree, but how do we get one called? Pope Gaines 1 would never allow that.
25+,
I have been at Bellevue for about the same, way back to the old church, not sure exactly what I can do, but I have had enough. This is not going to happen to this church if there is anything that I can do about it. Perhaps, we should get our heads together sometime as well as a lot of other folks and do something. It is becoming increasingly obvious that all the political posturing on earth is not going to effect any change. I am already aware that there have been some meetings and would like to be there.
I believe folks like Jim Haywood and our forum moderator--and hundreds and perhaps thousands of Bellevue members--believe as Luther did:
Martin Luther refers to Matthew 18
Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation
(1520)
The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.
First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.
Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.
Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...
Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.
.... The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . . If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.
I got my name after reading deacon who is a beacon`s post.
I took it seriously.
If we have a deacon with strong enough evidence to prove their are wolves in sheep`s clothing at Bellevue, then it`s time to flush out the wolves before the sheep are eaten alive,.
Folks,
There is hope on the horizon. I can not spell it out due to the trolls. Pray and stay over the coming weeks. In my opinion as always.
25years,
There is hope on the horizon. I can not spell it out due to the trolls.
Too bad you can't give more details. I hope that whatever it is, that the majority of people at BBC will be satistified.
Pray and stay over the coming weeks. In my opinion as always.
Excellent advice.. I hope we have all been doing this during the past few months (the praying part)!
NBBCOF,
I need to remain anonymous...
25years,,
I need to remain anonymous...
Go create an email account on yahoo.com - make up a fake name + a username that doen't make any sense...it's free + you remain anonymous. Just a suggestion!
I find it interesting that
Luther was not a person you would want to have dinner with; he was temperamental, peevish, egomaniacal, and argumentative. But this single-mindedness, this enormous self-confidence and strident belief in the rightness of his arguments, allowed him to stand against opposition, indeed, to harden his position in the face of death by fire, the usual punishment for heretics
How does this grab you nbbcof?
The Real Ace?
PSEUDO-ACE!!!
By the way ace, the word pseudo means it's similar, but not the same thing
Thank you, pseudo ace. That's exactly what I was going to suggest, and that's fine. Just as long as everyone has a unique screen name.
NBBCOF
pseduo,
Could you please just change your name to avoid any confusion at all?? it would be much appreciated. I would change mine but it's not letting me for some reason.
Thanks, this would be really helpful for everyone here.
you're welcome nbbcof...
hope all is forgiven and forgotten;
but you got to admit though, it was pretty funny listening to ace pull his hair out...sorry ace...hope you're a good sport
sorry all...just got tired of hearing the same ol' brainwashed talking points...it's what they sound like at least to me...
there's no way in the world several of the people on here can be that blind to preacher's problems
formerworkshipper said...
Some people in the bigger church were upset because they knew the smaller church was liberal and would most likely start an abortion clinic with the money.
The End
Continuing the story:
And the Little church continued to teach all the poor and needy people how to go to hell but feel good along their journey.
They took the money from big church and laughed behind their backs because they knew in their hearts what they were going to do with it and they were so clever, just like their father, satan.
They did not use the money to build an abortion clinic at all they used it to lure unsuspecting people into their church so they could send them on their way to hell via a perverted gospel.
Here`s what they did.
They took the money and bought beautiful clothes to clothes the naked and then told them to come on over for dinner, thereby feeding the hungry.
Then they started teaching them a counterfeit gospel so that they could become disciples of darkness.
Then they sent out their disciples and those disciples took a message to he world that abortion is a good thing, homosexulity is something to enjoy!
The disciples made a lot of friends along the way.
One of the greatest techniques for their evangelism was to alwaus point back to the BIG CHURCH that helped them send their evil gospel around the world.
and some of people who heard about the BIG CHURCH immediatly recognized their name and said "THAT`S DR. ADRIAN ROGERS CHURCH" and tjeu said these disciples must be good or they would never have this kind of credibility
And they took the hand of the dark disciples and it was with great joy that they skipped off to hell together.
Real Ace,
lighten up...you got to admit, it did sound a lot like you
I got to go right now...hope you dont have thin skin...
And yes, I'll come back later with the Ace removed
pseduo,
it was pretty funny listening to ace pull his hair out...sorry ace...hope you're a good sport
Thanks..it may have been funny to you but it was really frustrating me. Thanks for the apology, it means a lot to me. :)
pseduo,
lighten up...you got to admit, it did sound a lot like you
Maybe so, but you resorted to some attacks if I remember correctly, and that I have never done.
And yes, I'll come back later with the Ace removed
Thanks..
25+,
If there is anything that I can do let me know.
BBCOF has my e-mail and is free to pass it on.
Enough is Enough.
the real ace wrote:
"Could you please just change your name to avoid any confusion at all??"
Really, I think we've all got it straight now. I'm not sure anyone but "pseudo ace" was laughing. I failed to see the humor. So just retain your current names if you wish. I don't think I'll ever forget the "many faces of ace."
NBBCOF
Bellevue Members Please do NOT move your membership just yet. If you need time to reflect on where God wants you maybe it would be good to worship somewhere else for a time BUT there is going to come a time when we will need your vote and if your membership is somewhere else you will not be able to help us.
To those of you who know some who are going elsewhere please ask them to pray diligently BEFORE moving their membership. That would just be playing into the leaderships hands and we would never get enough people to make a difference.
Only move your membership when you absolutely KNOW that God is telling you to do so.
I believe that our number is growing and that God is on our side but Satan is alive and well not only at Bellevue but here in Memphis as a whole. I perswonally talked with a man today who did not know any facts but after talking with him for over an hour he has really changed his mind and he will be talking with his wife and I know her too. When she sees the truth she will also be onboard.
We just need to talk with our friends who have their heads in the sand and let them know what is really happening.
Be careful what you say and who you say it to on this site because many non christians are reading these posts along with some of Bellevues leadership.
Also be careful not to let them know too much about what we are doing. The more information they have to more easily they will be able to fend it off.
Brothers and sisters. There is a new excuse for the donation to a church that advocates the inclusion of gay/lesbian and transgender lifestyle is not only acceptable in God's eyes, but that those that choose this lifestyle can serve in the ministry.
The new excuse is that the $25,000 contribution to FUMC was not drawn from tithes and offerings, but rather from the Benevolence Fund.
This is a distinction without a difference.
Sisters and Brothers in the LORD Jesus Christ, the word for today is fungible.
Fungible fun·gi·ble
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin fungibilis, from Latin fungi to perform
:being something (as money or a commodity) one part or quantity of which can be substituted for another of equal value in paying a debt or settling an account [oil, wheat, and lumber are fungible commodities].
Money is fungible ladies and gentlemen. The idea that it came from the Benevolence Fund as opposed to our tithes is laughable. It came from the BBC pot. This is very simple, do not be deceived.
bin wonderin,
What a neat new word. It boggles the mind that this administration will go to.
If gaines wanted to give this money then by all means lets use his fungible funds. It only amount to about half a months salary for him.
bin wonderin,
Benevolence
Function: noun
1 : disposition to do good
2 a : an act of kindness b : a generous gift
Were the intentions not those of good ones??
And I understand what you are saying about 'Fungible,'...so are you saying that money is money and no matter what it is noted as, it doesn't matter?
Whether it's in the weekly envelope, benevolence evelope, love offering one, etc, it doesn't matter?
Do you have anything to support this statement? I'm just curious as to if it really is true or not.
real ace,
good intentions and 50 cents will buy you a cup of coffee.
Were our intentions good in supporting a ministry that supports slaughtering the innocent and leading people down a path to hell?
Real ace,
The leadership has no authority...none to support ministries that are contrary to the Word of God.
Helping people is one thing, supporting heretic ministires is another all together.
Tim,
good intentions and 50 cents will buy you a cup of coffee.
I don't drink coffee, thanks.. ;)
Were our intentions good in supporting a ministry that supports slaughtering the innocent and leading people down a path to hell?
Did the not need the help we provided? It's not like they are the "competition." We both love Jesus, do we not? And what do you mean by 'leading people down a path to hell?' Could you please clarify what you mean by that statement??
Real Ace,
They support abortion, contrary to true Christianity.
They support homo-sexuality, contrary to true Christianity.
They had insurance to cover the loss of the fire, so no they did not need our help.
The path to hell is any path that is contrary to the Word of God.
There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end there of is death and destruction.
Also the leadership has no legal authority. That is what this is going to take.
Helpwanted,
I'm not sure that I'm following you on that. Please elaborate.
Thanks
Tim,
I just getting caught up. If they had insurance then why did SG send the money?
Tim, I guess I'm saying theCC has not been given the authority by the members to change anything.
ace said:
Benevolence
Function: noun
1 : disposition to do good
2 a : an act of kindness b : a generous gift
Were the intentions not those of good ones??
Abortion and the homosexual lifestyle are not good ace. The money given to FUMC is fungible in their pot also. The $25,000 they got from BBC will free up another $25,000 to support their ungodly agenda. To say otherwise is naive. If only the BBC staff would just admit they made a mistake and ask for forgiveness. But their silence screams from the mountaintop.
We have all sinned and fall short. Can we begin the healing with an admission there were mistakes made and correct the policies that allowed this FUMC gift? Is it asking too much of the BBC staff to admit mistakes in judgment have been made?
Sorry ace, but I just don't want to respond back & forth with you with you. You made your case, I made mine. Too many back and forth posts result in spamming of the board. The result is that the information people seek is buried under a mountain of posts that shed more heat than light.
Below is the truth. So beautifully written, yet so sad to contemplate. Do not harden your heart ace.
RIP little innocent ones. You were killed in a violent way by the great deceiver, but I believe you rest with the LORD.
blessmewiththetruth said
Every time it`s our turn to place those little crosses in front of the church, I will remember the $25000 donation that just may have added some few new crosses to the Bellevue lawn.
helpwanted,
That is a very good question isn't it. The Communication Committee reported that they were "ignorant" to what this church stood for.
That sounds all well and good, but the man that hand delivered the check to them (Phil Weatherwax) has been involved in Bellevue's outreach to inner city ministries for years and he should have well known what this church stood for. Amazing that $25,000 can be given away and nobody knows anything isn't it.
Tim,
They support abortion, contrary to true Christianity.
Having an abortion will not send you to hell.
They support homo-sexuality, contrary to true Christianity.
Being homosexual will not send you to hell.
The path to hell is any path that is contrary to the Word of God.
The path to hell is rejecting Jesus Christ. That is the only way, not the other things you have listed.
Don't get me wrong, I don't support abortion and etc. I am just simply stating you are incorrect.
The CC was appointed by Dr. Gaines and the Deacon Officers. There are some conflicts of interest in four out of the seven deacon officers. One of them is actively applying for a job on staff. Two of them appointed themselves to the committee and one of them appointed his father-in-law to the committee. Doesn't sound much like a very objective group does it?
bin wondering,
You ask question yet you said, "Sorry ace, but I just don't want to respond back & forth with you with you. You made your case, I made mine."
Please let me know if you want me to answer them otherwise I will honor your request and not respond back.
Tim,
you have just turned the lights on for me. Yep, what a conflict of interest.
Real Ace,
I am not saying that these things do send one to hell. No one has to go to hell for any sin.
I am saying that supporting a ministry that teaches and supports these things is contrary to the Word of God and that by being contrary to the Word of God they are leading people down a path to hell, because there will not be any difference between what they believe and do and what the "heretic church" believes and does. Where is Christ in that?
Churchmouse,
Wonderful recap to what we have all learned this past year. I was one of those choir members. I wasn't crying out in the parking lot but I was definitely crying. And I knew Jim Whitmire had been fired as soon as I heard he "resigned." I knew he wasn't anywhere near ready to retire. In fact, I told some people as soon as Steve was announced as pastor that Whitmire would be the first one gone but no one would listen. Actually he wasn't the first one but I was close. I also knew that decision would show the measure of the man (Steve).
For those of you debating whether to stay or leave, I will tell you that you will carry Bellevue wherever you decide to go. We are a family of friends and a friend to the family and that hasn't changed! We left in May, joined a new church in September and have not been sorry. We are in a peaceful church with a loving pastor who has proved himself beyond measure already. We also have a loving staff and lots of new friends. We miss our old friends and if any of you are reading this, please know we love you and miss you so much! We miss our Bellevue choir and I miss working with the kids. But I have a new group of kids I'm working with and we have a new choir that we love as well.
Diana Hart
everything is always appointed and never a true election. Why is that Tim and can it ever be changed? If so how and let's get started.
bin wonderin said "fungible." Are we allowed to use words like that here?
NASS
helpwanted,
I need to get back to you in just a bit. I've got to help my kids study for some test.
Sorry...
Tim,
How do we know that when the check was presented BBC said, "You have to use this money for your shelter + to help the poor"?
The answer: we don't.
They are Christians who are hurting because of the loss of their church and we are family through Christ and it is our job to minister to them whether we like it or not in such a time as this.
What we have folks is elder rule by a close knit group of power brokers. The congregation needs to be awakened to this. I agree with Bin Wonderin:
We need:
1. An apology to the congregation for mocking us at Union City. After all, some of us didn't fall off the cabbage truck yesterday!
2. An admission the cheerleader tickets are not a legit moving expense and reimbursement to BBC.
3. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.
4. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. Free tickets for the host and wife are fine but not for anybody else
5. A monthly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. Transcripts on the web within a week;
6. A transparent committee selection process.
7. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.
8. The signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services to the church. These people should be recused from committees that review bids for their services.
9. No church credit cards. Pay your own way and then turn in an expense report like I do at my job.
AND I would like to add...
10. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... AND any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!
11. The END of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members.
12. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members. Also:
13. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.
14. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.
15. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.
This would be a good start in my opinion!
I was formerly ace, real ace, pseudo ace...
settled on new prospect; been here about 9 months; I'm from far enough south that we consider yall yankees; raised primitive baptist, though I'm not a hardshell; everyone told me you gotta go to Bellevue, just give it a try; I had heard the former pastor before on tv...seemed like a nice man, didn't line up with a lot of his theology, but a great orator none the less..seemed genuine...visited a few times, a few months ago, or maybe more...was even visited by someone in a suit...(thus- new prospect)
didn't care much for the seemingly mind numbing muscial one liners; I could tell the old people sitting by me didn't either; and then, the pastor; understand, I grew up with humble preachers who expounded the gospel of a sovereign GOD who would have mercy on whom he would; there was never an invitation, only the gospel...and the LORD indeed saved people; our preachers wore 15 year old suits and polished work shoes; we had some who wouldn't take any money, but rather said they would pay to preach, not get paid to preach...so imagine the shock of hearing preacher gaines...humility is not your first impression...theology is all over the place...he quoted Spurgeon once, and there's no way he believes what CHS believed...and what is the deal with beggin for amens? And the invitation...repeat after me prayers? Thought I could stomach it but couldn't. He is the polar opposite of your former preacher. My impression of him was...real TBN material
And it didn't help that there was all kind of rumors flying around. Heard about SB a couple of weeks ago; we would have never had kept a preacher telling half truths and such...course, dont remember ever having one of them...and please tell me the 4 or 5 hundred thousand dollar pay is just a myth; had never blogged before yesterday...
so can we still be friends??
I could give my name, but it just seems a lot cooler with a nickname
Ace, I appeal to the scriptures in an effort to answer your question. May God have mercy on me if I lead you astray.
Ace said (referring to FUMC):
It's not like they are the "competition." We both love Jesus, do we not?
Ace the answer to your question is found in John 14:21 where our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ proclaims: ”Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me."
Meditate on this truth and I pray that you will recieve the answer to your question.
I believe folks like Jim Haywood and our forum moderator--and hundreds and perhaps thousands of Bellevue members--believe as Luther did:
Martin Luther refers to Matthew 18
Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation
(1520)
The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.
First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.
Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.
Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...
Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.
.... The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . . If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.
Diana,
And I knew Jim Whitmire had been fired as soon as I heard he "resigned."
Have you talked to Dr. Whitmire to verify he was fired? I am truly sick of all this going on without the "I heard it from my best friend's cousins' neighbor's boyfriend" talk.
Has anybody asked him when he decided he was going to retire? Was in once Gaines came? Or was it before that? Because I have heard that it was before. I have been unable to confirm or deny that yet so I don't know if it's true, but it's just something to think about...
real ace,
nice argument. just wrong.
if you want to see it your way fine.
we disagree and i strongly disagree
new prospect,
so can we still be friends??
Who is this directed to? Me? If so, I'd love to be friends...
Thanks for the comment...
Tim,
nice argument. just wrong.
And you say it's wrong..because?
Bible
Hey real ace!
You still stirring the pot, huh?
Man, you as hardheaded as a billy goat. But you stand your ground, no matter how narrow your piece is. Respect that in a person.
Aint still sore bout me funnin' with ya? Sorry again
bin wondering,
I had a nice post written out to your last post but I have decided not to post it... it seems to me like you're saying that the Methodists don't love Jesus because they support that stuff.
Again - I'm not going to go deep and reply as much as I'd like to, just because there is a Bible verse involved and I am no preacher so I don't butcher the verse up...if that makes sense. I guess I don't want to be disrespectful to the WORD of God.
Tim,
Bible
What issue is that in regards to? I was talking about Dr. Whitmire. Are you talking about the same thing?
If so, please expand. If not, please clarify what issue you are talking about.
the way I figure Ace is a must in a setup like this...otherwise you'd just all be amenin' each other...
you really got some problems...if the top man would just throw himself in the dirt, I reckon most of the people(even the hurt ones) would bend over backwards to lift him out...yall understand what that means, dont ya?
but I also know aint a whole lot of preachers got that kinda heart
new prospect,
You still stirring the pot, huh?
Perhaps you could say that, but it's in a good way, of course!
Man, you as hardheaded as a billy goat.
I like goats...
But you stand your ground, no matter how narrow your piece is. Respect that in a person.
Thank you. Like I previously said, I see all this talk going around and it hurts me. I'm not going to sit in silence...
Aint still sore bout me funnin' with ya? Sorry again
Don't worry about it. You've been forgiven, I have no idea what you're talking about. :)
but you never know, the LORD might pour all this down preacher's spout and put a couple of his proud fires out, and you'd end up with a different man.
Almost a must, cause most of you on here aint gonna have preacher like he is.
new prospect,
the way I figure Ace is a must in a setup like this...otherwise you'd just all be amenin' each other...
Hey, at least I'm worth something to you guys, even if it's this! But in all seriousness, I have a feeling others are reading and are gaining some truth from what my side posts.
you really got some problems...if the top man would just throw himself in the dirt, I reckon most of the people(even the hurt ones) would bend over backwards to lift him out...
If he has made a mistake (and who hasn't), that's the beauty of forgiveness... but most of what has been posted is false and has already been proven so, so I won't really worry about that.
but I also know aint a whole lot of preachers got that kinda heart
In fact, thinking over this real quickly, I cannot think of one preacher myself.
Tim,Helpwanted,silentnight and all others that are saddened by these turn of events. Never in my life would I have dreamed that this would have happened I am saddened beyond words,and still in shock that our church has shown it's support by its donation to an apostate church that supports killing of the unborn.
To those who cannot see the wrong in this I have to ask you. Where do you draw the line? God is so very clear on this subject.I truly fear for those that cannot see that this goes against the word and will of God.
Please,I beg those of you that see no wrong in this to open your Bibles and seek What God has to say.I beg you to pray and ask our Lord to lead to not be complacement but to have your moral compass in its proper place.
I will end this note with a quote from blessmewiththetruth. I was actually moved to tears when I read that post.Those words are now etched in my mind forever.
Charles Gremillion
"blessmewiththetruth said
Every time it`s our turn to place those little crosses in front of the church, I will remember the $25000 donation that just may have added some few new crosses to the Bellevue lawn.
9:17 PM, November 21, 2006
Stillwaiting,
Just for clarification purposes, can you please refer to FUMC and not all Methodists in your previous post?
I will make note of that for future posts. Thank you for the info.
Help me out here...cant none of yall go talk to your preacher?
Man, if I was gettin paid that much you could come talk to me on my days on and off...course yall got about 'million people in there; so yall cant go talk to the vice preachers?
really I know how many churchers yall have...we didn't have that many people in the parish I was from...could kinda be the problem with the lack of talkin back and forth
Mr. Gremillion,
I agree whole heartedly.
As I said earlier today our deacons need to quit trying to posture themselves politically. Get down off the fence and place their feet solidly on the ground.
The only details that they need to figure out on this one is who needs to be shown the door and do it.
ANY money to FUMC might be directed to a certain pocket, but that just frees up more cash for some other agenda. No excuse will do. Pleading short time in town? I thought he was a Ph.D.? Pleading they give to the poor? So do some cults out there. Blame a committee? The buck should stop with the Pastor. Saying the money came from benevolence? Then it was given at Bellevue's Lord's Supper to FUMC... think about it! NO EXCUSE WILL DO. All in my opinion as usual.
whynotask,
You have been told by more then two different bloggers that they talked to the Whitmires personally and were told Jim was shown the door.
Who are these two people? I only read of such accounts from people who heard it from their brother, their friend, and etc.
The work environment was such that he had no choice but retire.
What was so bad about the work environment? Have you see this for yourself? The bad work environment, that is...
Steve Gaines does not have the ability to be a boss.
Why not?
Jim Whitmire earned to right to stay as long as he wanted to.
Again, have you talked to him yourself and asked him when he came to the conclusion that he was going to retire?
Seems like Steve Gaines has made alot of mistakes lately.
And how many mistakes in your life have you made lately? 1, 2, 3? 10?...30? I am willing to say that you've sinned at least 30 times over the past week. Am I right or wrong? I'm not judging you, just trying to make a point that we are all sinners and we all make mistakes. Just because Dr. Gaines is a preacher makes him no exception.
new prospect,
Help me out here...cant none of yall go talk to your preacher?
Everybody claims they can't, but nobody has tried. I run into him every week and I don't even attempt to get into contact with him.
For those that are here to play idiotic little games you really need to go somewhere else.
Get your PSP's out and go crazy.
real ace,
if all this stuff aint so, why's so many thinks it is? Could all of 'em be out of sorts, or is there some things need to be made right?
seriously, from what I've seen of preachering, the good ones put the fire out where the fire is. If he'd go see some of them ones that's hurtin, specially the gray ones, alota this frettin would stop
25+,
I don't think that you have any disagreement here.
Others might disagree with my solution, but somebody needs to be shown the door.
if all this stuff aint so, why's so many thinks it is?
Because, for starters...(1) They believe gossip without evidence, (2) They refuse to believe even the truth when it comes out
dont know about the song leader stuff, but the one that was there a while back seemed a little out of place...
and one thing for sure, you cant make nobody sing if they dont want to, so aint not use in guiltin on'em
Tim,
Get your PSP's out and go crazy.
I don't have a PSP :( If you buy me one, I promise I'll leave though!
I appreciate you Bro. Tim. You know, in the letters to the churches in Revelation, Jesus reminded them that He knew their works. He knows everything that is going on in Bellevue. He knows our works. He will remove the spots and wrinkles from His bride's attire. "He who planted the ear, shall He not hear? He who formed the eye, shall He not see?" Psalm 94:9
real ace,
it's kinda funny that I started out messin withya, and if anybody should be sore, it's you...but you the only one that'll write something bout what I'm sayin.
but that's just about how many talked to me in all the services I went to, not countin the handshakers and seatfinders
the REAL ace said...
if all this stuff aint so, why's so many thinks it is?
Because, for starters...(1) They believe gossip without evidence, (2) They refuse to believe even the truth when it comes out
------------------------------
Dr. Rogers used to say a half truth is a lie.
The real Ace says: a half lie is the whole truth
25+,
You are right. He does know it. We recently studied Revelations. I say recently maybe several months ago for all my memory serves. But anyway, I remeber telling my wife at the time, that I could not tell if we were already past the church of Philadelphia and had become the church of Laodecia or not.
I think we are rapidly approaching the point of being the church of Laodecia. It makes me sick to think about our church turning this quickly.
who is supposed to be preacher's wife, and what is a psp?
new prospect,
do you still live in Memphis? wanna come to Bellevue next Sunday? I'll sit with you...
worthfightingfor,
The real Ace says: a half lie is the whole truth
I never said that. Quit putting words in my mouth.
new prospect,
and what is a psp?
It's like a Nintendo Gamebody, do you know what they is? Except it's made my Playstation, I believe. I dunno really....it's some sort of game, though.
Not Gamebody... I mean Gameboy
Bellevue Friend,
I would accept that 100%.
I have more respect for any one of those three fellows than the entire CC put together (with maybe a couple of exceptions).
HUMILITY - "And My people who are called by My name humble themsleves." God demands that we walk humbly before Him (Micah 6:8). When pride walks in, God walks out. When we focus on ourselves, we miss Him. We must wait submissively before the Lord with a broken and contrite spirit. Humility always attracts His presence.
HUNGER - "And pray and seek My face." For revival to come, God's house must become a house of prayer. Prayer is not what we do before the real business; prayer is our real business! Our priority must not be the latest church growth technique, program, or method. Rather, we must desperately seek Him! He must become our sole focus.
HOLINESS - "And turn from their wicked ways." We must repent and be cleansed by the Lord. When our sins are confessed and forsaken, He will pour out His grace and compassion (Proverbs 28:13). We will ascend His holy hill of revival when we have hearts and hands cleansed and purified by Him. He places His Spirit in holy vessels.
The real Ace says: a half lie is the whole truth
I never said that. Quit putting words in my mouth.
-------------------------------
You don't even remember what you have said and what you have not said because you are spinning 10 plates at a time.
Satan is the father of lies.
worthfightingfor,
You don't even remember what you have said and what you have not said because you are spinning 10 plates at a time.
Go ahead. Quiz me on what I've said. I'm quite capable of knowing what I have said and what I have not said, thank you.
Satan is the father of lies.
Yep, that's true. Hopefully people won't be tempted to spead anymore lies.
why dont we use this blog to form a plan on how to speak at the next business meeting? By the way, anyone know when that is?
real ace,
still in Memphis (by providence, so no need murmurin; thanks for the invite; but no thanks; really dont have alot for the singin or preachin, or for giant crowds...kinda seems like a town inside of a building...am going to lil church in town though, bout 80 or 90, and they sing regular type songs and the preacher come to find out is from my part of the woods; he's on local cable tv; just him though, so dont be lookin for me to wave
worth fightin for;
man, you got some preachin fire up in you; sounds like you do a lot of bible thumbin at night...gotta like that
Folks,
I am going to log out of here early tonite and get some much needed rest.
I just can not figure out for the life of me, why some of the previously well respected leaders in our church are willing to participate in these moronic charades to cover Dr. Gaines tail along with a select group of others for that matter. Is there some financial gain to it? Are they power hungry? Is it just sheer arogance?
Somebody help me out here, because there is no reason at all to support the kind of actions that have been apparant in this leadership.
A while back someone mentioned that perhaps it was over control of a $25 million bank account. That maybe. I don't know. But I do know that I would burn every last dollar of it, if it would restore our church.
I can not help but believe that God is preparing to do a mighty work in our church and the mighty in our church will become completely destitue if they do not turn from their ways.
Good night all.
new prospect,
Where are you from if I can ask?
How do yall have business meetings? cant all yall come at the same time...the building's big but not that big
who says who gets to talk?
I know they aint gonna let yall talk bout the stuff yall talking bout here;
our business meetings used to last 10 minutes, and that was cause the treasurer read all the tickets from his spiral notebook...I just bettin, but yalls money guy dont have a spiral notebook does he?
I know so many BBC members who are having finincal problems. Anyone of them could have used some of that money tp help their families.
all of grace,
you can ask...South La
Isn't it odd that hisservant hasn't shown up tonite, but we do suddenly have a replacement for him. Wierd, huh.
new prospect,
You must be kidding. There is no Grace in who gets to speak at our business meetings, whenever that is.
Aha...my guess was right. Thanks..and welcome to the blogsphere
the real ace,
When is the next business meeting? I've seen this question many times on this blog, but it's never answered.
the real ace,
John 8:10-11 - "Straightening up, Jesus said toher, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?' She said, 'No one, Lord." And Jesus said, 'I do not dondemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."
How do you respond when there is sin inside the church leadership?
With Liberalism, the response of the Sadducees, would have said to the woman caught in adultery, "I do not condemn you, either," but would not have added,"Go. From now on sin no more." It tries to lift up fallen sinners without also lifting up the standard of God's Word. It loves sinners but does not hate sin. It is a poor response.
I'm going to get some rest tonight. Good night to all. I love you in the Name of Jesus.
all of grace;
how'd you figure? by the way, I know how to spell, just feels right spellin it like I say it
Tim,
you dont think I'm his servant, do ya
the real ace,
What is the pastors vision for our Church?
watchdog,
When is the next business meeting? I've seen this question many times on this blog, but it's never answered.
Perhaps when there is business to be done?
worthfightingfor,
How do you respond when there is sin inside the church leadership?
I am not sure if we are on the same page. Are you talking about Gaines here? The only sinless person is Jesus. Dr. Gaines is a sinner...imagine that! The people who run the church are *gasp* sinners! Imagine that too!
do yall have a thanksgiving service/meal at the church?
bet if you got to preacher while he's eatin, yall could 'hash' it out.
Be careful though, you dont want to get 'tween a preacher and any type of cooked bird
watchdog,
What is the pastors vision for our Church?
Why are you seeking this information from a third party? Approach him Sunday after church and ask him.
Are questions about transparency out of line?
Why do we have a committee "CC" that the congergation does not vote on?
Taxation w/o representation..
Why do we have a committee "CC" that the congergation does not vote on?
Has the congregation ever voted on a committee before? I can't remember if we have...
Do you think the pastor believes that numbers validate his ministry?
new prospect,
Just from living in the south all my life and visiting almost every state in the south. Speech patterns are unique in almost every southern state. And I figured you could spell...that's not why I figured Louisiana.
Do you think the pastor believes that numbers validate his ministry?
Another good question to ask him on Sunday. But since you asked if I think that, I would have to say no, I don't believe Dr. Gaines believes that.
the REAL ace said...
Why do we have a committee "CC" that the congergation does not vote on?
Has the congregation ever voted on a committee before? I can't remember if we have...
11:16 PM, November 21, 2006
Ace,
You see, there lies some of the problem. Thanks for admitting that we really aren't congregational approved.
the real ace,
Your cavalier attitude towards sin inside the leadership of Bellevue is not surprising at all. In fact, its actually become expected of many who are seeing what's going on.
If you are saved, allow no unconfessed, unforsaken sin in your life. Confess it, repent of it, and renounce it right now. Jesus will forgive you 1 John 1:9.
By not doing so will only allow Satan to have a stronghold on our leadership.
You are correct in that we are all sinners inside the church. I pray our leaders understand that as well along with the need to admit any wrongdoing.
I am going to get some rest now for the second time. Good night.
I would like to speak with Dr. Gaines now that you mentioned it. What time will he be avaiable as betwewen services is really not fair to either of us. Can you arrange since you invited me?
watchdog,
wouldn't pretend to know what your preacher's vision is for yall's church, but it seems like 'vision' is kinda the problem...in stead of trying to make a church different or make it bigger, preachers oughta stick to preachin truth and feedin and lovin sheep...yall gotta a whole lotta busy stuff, and that yalls thing and all, but yall also got thousands comin in and out, and a preachers gotta get out the clear gospel and pray that the holy spirit uses it to reach dead souls...pulpit's not for preachertainment, but to magnify a sovereign savior...think so?
he'd stay outta trouble if he'd get his heart around that, and not worry about ###'s and $$$
he's got it right now where people dont wanna listen to'em...not whoopin on'em, just that's what it sounds like up in here
watchdog,
You see, there lies some of the problem. Thanks for admitting that we really aren't congregational approved.
Sigh. I didn't admit anything, I simply asked a question...
Amen new prospect
watchdog,
I would like to speak with Dr. Gaines now that you mentioned it. What time will he be avaiable as betwewen services is really not fair to either of us. Can you arrange since you invited me?
Why is that not fair? I am not Dr. Gaines' secretary so I won't book a meeting for you, sorry.
If you truly want to talk to him, you will find a way...it's not that hard...trust me.
ACE,
Do "you" think that the congregation should be allowed to have a voice and to vote in a committee?
Ace, Who is now on the Budget and Planning Committee?
Do "you" think that the congregation should be allowed to have a voice and to vote in a committee?
Who appoints the committees? The Deacon officers + Pastor. If I'm not mistaken, the deacons also have a say in it.
Now, are we the ones who voted the deacons in and approved of them? Yes, I believe the congregation is responsible for that.
So if you voted the deacons in, can you not trust them to make a decision regarding committee members?
Does that answer your question?
Ace, Who is now on the Budget and Planning Committee?
I don't know these things at the top of my head. Can you not research this? I would imagine it's not that hard to find out that info.
all of grace,
you wear that tag for show? or are you a true grace man? cause, man, it aint many around. if so, how'd you get up in BBC...I've heard preacher Gaines several times, and he aint A.W. Pink
if not, then you may not know who that guy is
the REAL ace said...
Do "you" think that the congregation should be allowed to have a voice and to vote in a committee?
Who appoints the committees? The Deacon officers + Pastor. If I'm not mistaken, the deacons also have a say in it.
ACE,
You are mistaken in your above statement. The deacons have no say so in it as I've asked a deacon and done research into this .
Tim said...
25+,
If there is anything that I can do let me know.
BBCOF has my e-mail and is free to pass it on. Enough is Enough.
---
Ditto. Count me in too. NASS/NBBCOF has my email too.
Andrew
Bellevue Friend,
Thank you for your kind words and encouragement.
Are you local?
Andrew
help me out yall...are yall saying that yall pick deacons, and then preacher and deacons pick committees, and then committees make decisions?
sounds like a recipe for trouble; no, more like a representative republic, if you dont mind me using my 10th grade civics words
David Brown: you had a great post earlier! great post. unlike what many think, we do not have to agree to be civil. I would ask you to please try and talk to others on here about their attitudes. I have never seen anything like it. I might not agree with everything you posted, but your post was great. That is the attitude that needs to be on this blog. Things that have been posted by Tim, 25yrs+, Choice and others not only cross the line, but really really hurt the witness of Christ. Yes, I have been passionate and strong in some of my posts, but I have not one time tried to hurt someone on purpose. Go back and read the contents of my posts. Many are trying all they can to attach me and ace and others with all they have. They get as personal as possible. there is no excuse for that and that is not of Christ.
What upsets me more is that there are not some others like you on this blog to call them out on what they are doing and tell them they need to shape up or get off.
I would personally not sit by while someone acted like they have. Especially if they were on my side of the issues. It amazes me that many just sit by and ignore it and sometimes even pat them on the back for their attacks.
Many of you want changes made, right? what kind of changes? The reason I ask is because you complain and pick every thing possible apart at Bellevue, but support horrible actions of some on this blog. what does that say? the actions of some on this blog have been horrible and there is no way they should ever be leadership at Bellevue.
you want a business meeting right? To the ones that are truly serious and truly Christ centered. who will support you at the meeting? how will you defend many of the horrible actions of those on your side of the issues?
It seems to me like you would want to go above and beyond. let's say everything you have said is true. what makes you different? you are doing as bad or worse? many times worse. what gives you the right to say anything then? how do you have any ground to stand on? as I have said before, 2 wrongs do not make a right. there is no excuse for the attitudes, slander, libel, rumors, and lies on this blog and other places.
I for one can not take your side serious at all. you can say whatever you would like, but your actions speak volumes.
Another thing. If I ever found out what you claim was true, I would never want to stand with you either. From what I have seen by many on here, you so not represent Christ and a group I would want to be a part of.
you can bash me yet again, or you can take these words and thoughts to heart. That is your choice.
I for one would love to have Blackaby come and guide us through this.
Our trust has been violated.
I can't see how we can move forward without someone from the outside leading us toward healing.
Andrew
You are mistaken in your above statement. The deacons have no say so in it as I've asked a deacon and done research into this .
Okay, that's what I added my 'If I'm not mistaken' disclaimer. You see, I don't post false stuff like some people here. If I'm not sure on something, I post it. I'm not afraid to say 'I don't know' on here, is anybody else?
"I don't know" > (is greater than) spreading lies.
...and are the deacon officers deacons? Yes, I believe so. And they went through the same process of the regular deacons.
I posted this on "The conduct becoming a minister thread,but i wanted to share this with all of you here as well.
I was suprised to find this thread this morning, but really suprised to read the vicious attacks on Pamela's character and meanest of all ,questioning her spiritual and mental health.It is interesting to note that when a person cannot refute you on the facts.They will then use personal attacks.
After 26 years of marrige I know her better than anyone. I am proud of her for taking a stand ,and most importantly seeking the truth, no matter what it cost her and believe me this has cost her dearly.
I am with her every step of the way ,we suffer together, and have cried as one,as we have received mean spirited and yes vicious e-mails and phone calls every since we took a public stand for truth.
God knows our heart and the truth,and that is enough for us.
To those of you who supported Pamela on this thread I want to personally thank you, and we are proud to stand with you in unity. As we work together to return Bellevue Baptist Church to the church it once was.A Christ centered Bible teaching church.
In conclusion I want to share what happened this morning when Pamela found out that her words had been showcased into a new thread without prior knowledge.She looked at me with tears in her eyes and said" pray for me to die to my flesh,so that I can take whatever pain lies ahead from this."When I suggested she contact the moderator to have it removed she said "let the truth stand where it will,the battle belongs to the lord".
I want all of you to know something else about my wife.She is legally blind and crippled in both legs, but I'm proud to say she sees the scriptures clearly and stands strong in the Lord.
A note to RM and psmpastor, and jcsuitt : Pam and I forgive you and we turn the other cheek as our Lord and Savior Jesus has commands us to do.
Charles Gremillion
11:37 PM, November 21, 2006
watchdog: why do you think the congregation should vote/choose committee's? how would that work.
some are bring up issues that just cannot be done at Bellevue or any other metro size church like they are at small country churches.
we are starting to talk about a great deal of personal preferences. Dr. Rogers was clear about what he thought about that stuff. if it gets down to personal preferences we are going down a very very long bad road.
I aint a member...but you've mostly been nice to me, knowing I aint in yalls church...I'm guessing the rest of yall in here are members, but it sounds like if yall was face to face, yall'd be a fightin for real, or at least some of you. Do all yall know each other personal like, by name when you see other? cause most who do wouldn't type stuff to each other
Just my opionion, but this talkin'is what preacher needs to see and read; whether he's done wrong things or not, a man with a shepherds heart would make this stuff end...whether he's got 30 or 30 thousand
I'd knock over a ton of deacons and committees out of the way to get people back to lovin each other
new prospect
I'm from south Louisiana ,Opelousas to be exact. What s. Louisiana town do you hail from?
new prospect,
Check out my blogs at:
http://rfmd92.blogspot.com
http://sbdiscussionforum.blogspot.com
And yes, I'm very familiar with AW Pink...and no..Dr. Gaines sure ain't him.
Post a Comment