Thursday, May 14, 2009

We great leaders have our critics!

One would think after Sunday's "Joan Rivers' twin" blunder, Steve Gaines would be a little more careful to take a few minutes to research his sermon illustrations before stating them as fact. Yet just three days later we hear him attributing a quote to Abraham Lincoln that Abraham Lincoln didn't say.

In this
clip he talks about great leaders and how great leaders always have their critics. He seems to be lumping himself in with some high company here -- Jesus, Paul, Peter, Spurgeon....

Enough with the "poor me, I'm so persecuted" schtick! Leaders lead by example, not by empty words. Great leaders don't need to tell everyone what great leaders they are. People will naturally follow a great leader.

Here's a quote often attributed to Abraham Lincoln for you, Brother Steve:

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time."


Ramesh said...

WikiQuote > Abraham Lincoln.


You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Variant: You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.
This is probably the most famous of apparently apocryphal remarks attributed to Lincoln. Despite being cited variously as from an 1856 speech, or a September 1858 speech in Clinton, Illinois, there are no known contemporary records or accounts substantiating that he ever made the statement. The earliest known appearance is October 29, 1886 in the Milwaukee Daily Journal. It later appeared in the New York Times on August 26 and August 27, 1887. The saying was repeated several times in newspaper editorials later in 1887. In 1888 and, especially, 1889, the saying became commonplace, used in speeches, advertisements, and on portraits of Lincoln. In 1905 and later, there were attempts to find contemporaries of Lincoln who could recall Lincoln saying this. Historians have not, generally, found these accounts convincing. For more information see two articles in For the People: A Newsletter of the Abraham Lincoln Association, "'You Can Fool All of the People' Lincoln Never Said That", by Thomas F. Schwartz (V. 5, #4, Winter 2003, p. 1) and "A New Look at 'You Can Fool All of the People'" by David B. Parker (V. 7, #3, Autumn 2005, p. 1); also the talk page. The statement has also sometimes been attributed to P. T. Barnum, although no references to this have been found from the nineteenth century

Did they fire ALL the good help from Bellevue?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Good catch, Thy Link. Thanks! Unlike some people, I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong, and I appreciate the correction. The front page has been edited accordingly.

Over 25,000 Google hits do show this quote attributed to Lincoln. However, I've still not found a single incidence of SG's "say nothing" quote ever being attributed to Lincoln. (I'm sure if there is one out there somewhere you'll find it for us!)

Ramesh said...

NASS, you are quite correct that the quote Pastor Steve Gaines quoted was of Elbert Hubbard and not of Abraham Lincoln. I have searched diligently and could not find actual text where he [Elbert Hubbard] quoted, but lot of attributions. To be fair, no other author is seen linked with this quote: The only way to avoid criticism is say nothing, do nothing, and be nothing.

I aspire to be "Thy Peace", though I am becoming "Thy Link". But some might categorize me as "Thou [Small Time] Trouble Maker". :)

New BBC Open Forum said...

I consider "Thy Link" a term of endearment. :-)

robbie said...

you know, for people who really can't stand steve gaines, you sure do listen to a lot of his sermons.

i'm just sayin'

take a deep let all your bitterness out...

New BBC Open Forum said...

Okay, "rob, robbie, robert, or any other name of your choosing,"

I never said I can't stand Steve Gaines. That and "bitterness" are your words. I actually find him quite entertaining. Sort of sad, but very entertaining... like Mac Brunson. It's like watching a train wreck. You don't want to look but you can't help yourself. I mean, you've got to admit that compared to Steve and Mac, Joe Jernigan is just plain bor-ring.

fogmachine said...

I don't know what Steve Gaines has to do with being a preacher but he sure is entertaining; a real standup comic.

The Joan Rivers thing wasn't really in a sermon was it?

robbie said...

ok, let me rephrase. for people who really dislike and are extremely critical of steve gaines, you sure do watch a lot of him. i bet you own all his sermons on i right? or maybe not, you probably just record them off the saves money. good thinking!

when's the last time you've gone to a church on a sunday morning?

i must say that it is sad that you find Bible-based preaching entertaining. something about that just sounds very wrong to me.

and, no, actually, i don't find joe jernigan boring.

gmommy said...

"i must say that it is sad that you find Bible-based preaching entertaining. something about that just sounds very wrong to me."

Something about that sounds very wrong to me,also.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"rob, robbie, robert, or any other name of your choosing,"

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? I didn't say Joe Jernigan is boring. I said compared to SG JJ is boring. It's all relative.

While I can't speak for anyone else, I have never said I dislike SG. I certainly dislike some of the things he's done, but dislike him? He sort of reminds me of Bill Clinton. And as with Bill Clinton, if I didn't know anything else about him, I might think old Bill would be a fun guy to hang out with. (Well, not alone of course, but in a non-political, group setting... sure... maybe.) Likewise, I suspect SG would probably be a barrel of laughs if one could ever get close enough to him to know him.

Extremely critical? I don't know about "extremely," as I've seen others who were much more critical of him than I, but just critical? Okay, I'll own that one.

"i bet you own all his sermons on i right? or maybe not, you probably just record them off the saves money. good thinking!".

Hardly. Are you not aware that there is software that will allow one to record web feeds at a set time? You don't have to be at your computer to record, you know. You can also set a VCR or DVR to record off the TV on Sunday mornings.

"when's the last time you've gone to a church on a sunday morning?".

There you go assuming and trying to imply things again. First of all, one does not have to go to a brick and mortar building on Sunday mornings to worship. Second, why is that relevant? Third, it's really none of your concern.

Many here have found other churches, some were never BBC members in the first place, others worship in home churches, some worship alone, and I'm sure a few have given up on "church" completely. Seeing the things going on in the church today and being subjected to sheep-beating sermons long enough might tend to make one want to give up on the organized church.

"i must say that it is sad that you find Bible-based preaching entertaining. something about that just sounds very wrong to me.".

Well, it might be odd. I don't know about wrong. I suppose it depends on your definition of "entertaining." However, reading a passage from the Bible during a sermon doesn't necessarily make it "Bible-based." FWIW, I've heard SG preach some Bible-based sermons, but he seems to be throwing in more and more weird stuff lately... not to mention he YELLS almost the entire time, especially on Sunday mornings. YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS TO GET YOUR POINT ACROSS, OKAY?! After a while people tune out.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I learned today of the accident that occurred at BBC Wednesday night involving two-year-old William Underwood. The story is here and video here. Thankfully trained workers were there and William is expected to fully recover. Please keep William and his family in your prayers.

gmommy said...

Thank the Lord this precious baby will recover. What an awful traumatic experience for the child and everyone involved to go thru.
Yeah Penny for not hesitating!!! PTL!!!!

TN Lizzie said...

It's so good to hear good news coming out of Bellevue!

Penny Williams was used by God to help this little boy, and his parents seem to have complete faith in God! \O/ \O/ \O/

The nursery workers always do an awesome job of caring for the children. I've always been amazed by how few problems occur downstairs in "East Bellevue"! Maybe BBC could honor them all somehow? You know ~ Love Memphis?

Ramesh said...

New BBC Open Forum > Darrell Gilyard Arrested While Patterson Attempts Damage Control [JANUARY 14, 2008].

New BBC Open Forum > Who's really the sociopath here? [APRIL 09, 2009].

Blount said he had no idea why Hinson looked into two other blogs, and

* Was Hinson acting on his own, or was someone pulling his strings? Ask yourself, who at FBC Jax would most like to see Tiffany Croft's blog and the NBBCOF shut down? It makes no sense unless someone was simply on a phishing expedition to reveal the identity of Watchdog and me. As for Tiffany Croft, what possible motive could there be except to intimidate her? She's always blogged using her real name! While she doesn't seem to have been particularly critical of Brunson, she has been critical of FBC Jax and Jerry Vines for allowing Darrell Gilyard to preach at FBC Jax and for Vines preaching at Gilyard's church after Gilyard's long, sordid past became public knowledge. She has also been critical of Paige Patterson for covering for Gilyard, and we know Brunson and Patterson are buddies. Mac Brunson reportedly approached Ms. Croft's father, who is a member of FBC Jax, and pressured him to get her to take down her blog. It's my understanding Brunson now contends he's "not familiar" with Ms. Croft's blog

I still can not believe Det. Hinson could not determine by reading Tiifany's blog, that it was authored by Tiffany and not an alias. Lord help us.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure that Steve Gaines will somehow to blamed for this child's accident soon.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I'm sure that Steve Gaines will somehow to blamed for this child's accident soon.

I counted to 100 and took several deep breaths before I responded, so this is the edited version.


You're a moron.

Lydia said...

"i must say that it is sad that you find Bible-based preaching entertaining. something about that just sounds very wrong to me."

What is your definition of 'bible based'?

gmommy said...

My thoughts exactly.

There are plenty of real things SG does all on his own.
That horrible accident has nothing to do with SG.

Ramesh said...

Pastor Wade's blog > Walking Where SBC Preachers Fail to Tread.
A handful of leaders in our Convention, as detailed here last September, 2008, neglected to fulfill their God-given responsibilities to shut down Gilyard's ministry and provide help to his victims. Alas, a young Southern Baptist woman, a Gilyard victim herself, approached the unenviable task of bringing Gilyard to justice with the zeal of a modern apostle. Tiffany Croft began her blog with the goal of treading where we Southern Baptist pastors and leaders feared to trod. With all the negative press from official channels in the SBC regarding blogs, it would be great to see someone like Tiffany be given credit using a blog to bring about good in our society.

Ramesh said...

Sorry NASS, for all these Off Topic comments posts. Thanks for your forbearance.

Fbc Jax Watchdog > Soaring High: One Person Can Make a Difference.

It is absolutely amazing what Tiffany Thigpen Croft, a local Christian wife and mother, armed with only a blog and the power of free speech and her faith in God, has been able to accomplish. Tiffany has done what most baptist pastors in this city were too cowardly to do. And she didn't have a budget, a PR firm, or any position of power in the city of Jacksonville.
And most importantly, Tiffany didn't cave into those cowardly voices that told her that her blog was harming the cause of Christ, that it was beauty-shop gossip and should be shut down. No way - Tiffany stood strong, knew that truth was on her side, and she KNEW that God was pleased with what she was doing. You see, for far too long, people inside baptist churches have been afraid to call public attention to abusers, especially pastors. They have used the illogical excuse that to do so would harm Christianity - that people would be turned away from Christ if light were shone on the abuses of pastors, that things should be kept quiet. They've even used lame excuses like the pastor is God's man, and "touch not thine annointed", or "just let God handle it."

New BBC Open Forum said...

Thy Link,

Keeping people "on topic" here is like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube. Both are a waste of time. :-)

New BBC Open Forum said...

This is interesting.


"A pastor named Steve Gaines has written an interesting book entitled, When God Comes to Church. The reason I call it interesting is because he's a Baptist pastor (Southern Baptist I believe) but seems to be more Charismatic without actually calling himself or his church Charismatic. But then, I'm learning this is becoming more and more common in Baptist churches."

The author goes on to strongly agree with two quotes from the book.

New BBC Open Forum said...

We're getting a lot of hits on the blog for people Googling for Eddie Struble. I have no idea why, but if anyone can provide this information, please do!

TN Lizzie said...

I was thinking of Eddie just the other day. I sure would like to hear him sing, "Midnight Cry" again.'s closer now than it's ever been. I can almost hear the trumpet...

Oh, now that's worship!!

32yrs@bbc said...

When Eddie sang The Midnight Cry,
he did not perform/entertain. He worshipped through his gift of music. And those who had the joy of listening knew the Spirit of the Lord was in him and singing through him. He did not bring attention to himself. The focus was on the Lord, glorifying Him.
God created music. It is the highest form of worship. It is to bring glory to Him - not the singer nor the musician. Too much of the music in our churches today(and other "Christian" venues) is performance driven and is meant to stir emotions whether than bring glory to the One who created it for worship of Himself. Just as messages from the pulpit are being
"dumbed down" in many churches so is worship through music being dumbed down. The sad thing is that
so many neither seem to know nor care.

BkWormGirl said...

I am watching the Jon and Kate premier. (I know you might be wondering what is the point..wait for it, it is coming.)

They are interviewing them separately and Kate is saying that the hardest part of the last couple of months is that she lives under scrutiny. And she said the feels in a quandary - do I act the way I am, which people say is reason to hate me, or do I act like someone else and try to undue the past.

John said he didn't sign up for paparazzi being around full time. And that he made mistakes.

But then they asked both of them if there was anything they were sorry for. And both had things they were sorry for. And both mentioned the fact that they originally agreed to do the show, and that the purpose was to show people that life is difficult, it doesn't always look "normal" but that it is possible. And John said he was most sorry for his children, who will have to deal with the consequences of his choices. he said he was sorry he just didn't think about how others would perceive this or how others would react to his actions.

To be clear, I LOVE this family. And I hate what they are going though. I think the entire situation is tragic. He says he didn't cheat and I want to believe him.

But what struck me is how much both of them were sorry that their children would suffer. Both of them apologized for the fact that people who believed in them were hurt by their actions.

I know it is TV and I know it was probably somewhat scripted. But it felt real. It seemed genuine.

I found myself wishing that people like SG would just take a moment to apologize. To the ones they have hurt with their actions. I know it is fantasy land. But I still wish for it. Is there a point at which it is just too late?

BkWormGirl said...

Sorry - I know my comment wasn't on topic. Just something I was thinking about today.

allofgrace said...

Ten Indictments Against the Modern Church

Anonymous said...

I counted to 100 and took several deep breaths before I responded, so this is the edited version.


You're a moron.
My goodness, I centainly feel the love of Christ.

My comment does not lessen the importance of this accident, but intends to show the sillyness of some of the nitpicky critisms of Pastor Gaines on this site. So nitpicky, that if anything goes wrong at Bellevue, its Gaines' fault. Which begs the question...when things go right at Bellevue does Gaines get the credit as well?

32yrs@bbc said...

Ten Indictments Against the Modern Church - excellent! Every Christian should hear this message.

pogopeanut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
New BBC Open Forum said...

Eddie Struble information