There's been speculation for well over a year that Steve and/or Donna Gaines will be somehow involved in or the focus of some big "miracle" presumably calculated to draw in the masses. Along with the "name it and claim it" topic of late, we now have a "miracle" of sorts. True, this one doesn't involve either of the Gaineses, but hey, I guess it's close -- considering it's Steve's deacon chairman.
With giving down and staff layoffs
Watch
Quote from Steve: "God is an encouraging God, is he not? And God will do those... ummm... now listen. He... he may not turn electricity on for you. But he might do something else... if you'll just look around, God is encouraging you. Sometimes, though, you're just not receiving it... because you're not looking for it."
What's next? Huckstering anointing oil and prayer cloths at the end of BBC's Sunday morning broadcasts? "Faith nails" and "miracle coins" in the bookstore?
Joel, Oral, and Benny would be proud!
363 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 363 of 363who's that Lynn?? Am I going to be embarrassed that I don't know??/
Lynn,
That's more than a bit off topic ... but we do that here. Still, what's your point?
Junk, Can you be profound and funny on demand????
just wondering......:)
-----> Here
Not meaning to get off topic, and this may have already been discussed and I missed it, BUT, does anyone know if Stevie Gaines paid any sales tax on his furniture purchase? OR is he declaring the big discount he received on his income tax as a "gift"? Just wondering how he is going to skate this by the tax man?
This is just one of many articles out there about clergy tax breaks. This is what Rick Warren was doing to rip off the government.
The jury is still out on whether SG owes sales tax on that furniture purchase (he probably does), but the money used to purchase furniture is considered part of his tax-exempt housing allowance.
Why do you think they ordain nearly every male staff member at BBC? Of course Ms. Higgy, while now performing the same job as Paul Williams, is called "Director of Prayer," while he was called "Minister of Prayer" and enjoyed all the tax benefits she is ineligible for because she had the audacity to be born female.
David Coombs is no "clergyman," but he is a shrewd businessman. As usual, just follow the money. It motivates nearly everything BBC does.
NASS,
It's not just a male/female thing.
Over the years I was at BBC I asked different custodians, "What is the dustiest thing at Bellevue?" Sadly, they consistently said, "The Bibles in the minister's offices."
The least dusty? Bibles in the Directors offices.
Odd, that. The Ministers did a lot of directing, and the Directors did a LOT of ministry. At a church, it seems like the job benefits should have been commensurate with ministry.
just sayin'
Overall it's not just a male/female thing, but the tax perks are a male/female thing since they don't ordain women. Ms. Higgy has the same job Paul Williams had. Only difference (other than she probably hasn't ever molested a child or sexually harrassed anyone) is that he was ordained and she isn't. He was called the "Minister of Prayer," and she is called the "Director of Prayer." Same thing with the female "directors" in the children's ministries. Why should PW be any more entitled to those tax breaks than Ms. Higgy? Why should a "Minister of Children's Ministry" be any more entitled to those perks than a "Director of Children's Ministry" when they're performing exactly the same job? Even if they're paying female staff the same as male staff for performing the same job (and that's unlikely in the first place), the tax breaks alone (housing allowance and the choice of opting out of SS) would give the ordained staff (the males) a higher effective salary.
That was my point. BBC is using ordination of male staff members, whether they have any "ministerial" duties or not, to gain tax breaks for the church and the "ministers." It's a double standard. IMO "ministers" are no more entitled to tax breaks than anyone else. Separation of church and state is a convenient concept... but only when it's convenient.
Did a member of the custodial staff actually tell you that? I'm just trying to imagine how that would come up in a conversation.
Solomon,
Thanks for asking. Mom is doing better. Her doctor has forbidden her to attend church right now due to the germs and colds that are going around. She has reduced her prednisone intake this week and should again reduce it next week. She still is taking breathing treatments everyday, not as many as she did when she was first out of the hospital. Continue to pray for her - she has this infection in February 2008 and since it's getting cold again, we hope to keep her well next year. Thanks for all the prayers!
Karen
Since music was brought up, what kind of testimony is it when the only difference between the music coming from the church and the music coming from the bar across the street is that the music coming from the bar is better quality than that from the church?
Rock on!
Or if the dancing is better...
Nass: Thanks for the article links on clergy tax breaks. Very fascinating stuff! I was vaguely aware of the housing exemption, but completely unaware of the rest. This strikes me as a big piece of the puzzle for making sense of the SBC's whole authority, submission & pastoral power picture. As you say... "follow the money...."
From the current BBC administrative staff page:
Ministers (all male): 32
Directors, male: 8
Directors, female: 11
Other, male: 5
Other, female: 4
So 60% of the males on the administrative staff are ordained and, therefore, eligible for tax breaks. 100% of the females (which comprise 25% of the administrative staff) are not. How many of the 60% of the males which are "ministers" perform ministerial duties? How many of the 15 females perform similar duties?
Romans 14:10-13 (NKJV)
But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written: “As I live, says the LORD, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”
So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
http://www.victorious.org/critical.htm
I'll just copy and paste this comment from Wade Burleson's blog for your consideration:
Brother Wade,
My wife and I are on a leave of absence from the IMB to care for our ailing parents. During the time we have been home I was interim pastor for eight months of a small SBC church close to where we live.
During these months in the course of ministering to the church folks and visiting in the area of the church, my wife and I met many folks who had been hurt sometime in their past, distant or not so distant, in a SBC church by a pastor or church members. They often share what could only be described as spiritual abuse as defined by a number of books written on the subject in the past few years. Often this abuse involved legalism as defined by the church leaders or the pastor. Meeting these people just broke our hearts.
I am convinced that if I put a sign in the yard of our house announcing a worship gathering for hurt and hurting Christians, we would have a house full the first time we met. I am further convinced that within a few months I could have a MEGA CHURCH!!
I just do not understand how people can call themselves Christians and be so legalistic and abusive. I have read several books lately about the need to minister to the hurting Christians and help them to be able to return to the church and a vibrant relationship with God. I am earnestly seeking God's will for my life in regards to this opportunity to minister to hurting Christians. I want them to know that God loves them and so do my wife and I.
With a breaking heart for so many good people,
RP in FL
barnabas,
You no doubt mean to apply Rom 14:10-13 to anyone critical of the Bellevue leadership. You could have easily quoted the lost world's favorite verse: "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
The problem with both applications is that they are out of context. In context, Rom. 14 deals with our relationship to weaker brothers, urging us not to be a stumbling stone to them in matters of food and drink and respecting certain days, etc. It does not scold anyone for holding leadership accountable. For that you may refer to Matthew 18:15-20 and 1 Timothy 3:1-13. See also Isaiah 56:9-11; Jeremiah 10:18-21; Jeremiah 23:1-4; Ezekiel 34:1-10; Zechariah 11:4-17 and many others.
"You no doubt mean to apply Rom 14:10-13 to anyone critical of the Bellevue leadership."
First and foremost I apply it to myself, as we all should do with scripture.
"First and foremost I apply it to myself, as we all should do with scripture."
Well, ok.
Song of Solomon 2:5
Strengthen me with raisins, refresh me with apples, for I am faint with love.
Barnabas, is my verse just as relavent as your verse? Did you have a point? BTW, doesn't your name mean "Son of Encouragement"?
Just wonderin' as I go rummage in the kitchen for a snack...
tn_lizzie,
I think "barnabas" is "encouraging" you to shut up and refrain from ever speaking of the sheep abuse by SG and other "anointed" ones.
The Merriam Webster Dictionary defines criticism as “an act of criticizing; to judge as a critic; to find fault; to blame or condemn.”
As we have read, the scriptures tell us not to tear down our brethren through criticism or judgment, as this can pose a serious stumbling-block and cause irreparable damage to their faith.
Among God’s warnings to us in scripture, there are none more somber or serious than His warning to not become a stumbling block to His followers. “...whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matt. 18:6).
There’s an old saying that “We tend to judge others by their actions, and we judge ourselves by our intentions.” The truth is, we cannot rightly judge anyone else, because we do not know the contents of their heart. We should be content to judge only ourselves and seek to bring our own lives in alignment with God’s Word (1 Cor. 11:31).
What Exactly is a Critical Spirit?
A “critical spirit,” is an obsessive attitude of criticism and fault-finding, which seeks to tear others down — not the same thing as what is sometimes called “constructive criticism.” The only criticism that is ever constructive is that which is expressed in love to “build up,” not to tear down — it is always expressed face-to-face, never behind their back.
The person with a critical spirit usually dwells on the negative, seeks for flaws rather than good. They’re a complainer, usually always upset, and generally have a problem or a complaint about something. They often have little control over their tongue, their temper, and have tendencies for gossip and slander, which Paul said were sins “worthy of death” (Rom. 1:29-32).
What Causes a Critical Spirit?
1. Negativeness - A bad attitude and a negative view of life. A person may have unconfessed sin in their life (Rom. 2:1), or may harbor unforgiveness or bitterness toward someone who may have offended them (Heb. 12:15).
2. Insecurity - Criticism is often a subconscious means to “elevate one’s own self image.” By putting others down, they are inwardly trying to feel more important or that “they know more.” Jealousy toward the spiritual victories of others is often the cause of criticism and belittling comments. Popular ministers of the Gospel are often the target of such tactics.
3. Immaturity - Believers must always keep their focus upon Christ and His Word, not man, who will often fail (Heb. 12:2). The young or immature believer who has not progressed very far in their own faith, remain overly dependent upon the faith of those within the body of Christ. Unfortunately, when they begin to notice the flaws in their brethren, subconsciously, this becomes a threat to their own sense of victory. Criticism becomes a reaction of disappointment, because their expectations in others have been crushed.
4. An Unrenewed Mind - Put-downs, making-fun-of, criticism, sarcasm are the world’s ways of reacting to the faults of people. However, as Christians we don’t behave this way. Our thinking and attitude should be renewed by the Word of God, which teaches us to bear the infirmities of the weak, to love, and show compassion and encouragement (Rom. 12:2).
5. The Devil - As we may realize, the Devil specializes in influencing obsessive behavior. He may use any or all of the above channels, or other techniques, to influence a complaining or critical attitude to stir up turmoil and strife within the body of Christ (Eph. 6:12). We must be on guard that none of us would be used as a tool of the Devil to bring harassment or discouragement upon our brothers or sisters through continual criticism, as the Bible warns us not to “give place” to the Devil (Eph. 4:27). Remember that Satan is specifically called “the accuser of the brethren” (Rev. 12:10). Are you an accuser of the brethren?
The Bible says that the reason that we are to come together as a church is, not to criticize, but to “exhort” (encourage) one another (Hebrews 10:25). “Cursing the darkness” won’t change anything, but we must light a candle and “expose the light” of God’s Word. By sharing the truth of God’s Word, and encouraging people to live in its truth, people will change. Love and encouragement is a “motivational force.”
If we ever hope to bring improvement in others, we need to become people of encouragement. This is the only attitude that will change people, and our actions and words must be devoted to encouraging the spiritual progress of our brethren.
The Christian’s tongue should never be used for anything but good. “Let no foul or polluting language, nor evil word, nor unwholesome or worthless talk (ever) come out of your mouth; but only such speech as is good and beneficial to the spiritual progress of others, as is fitting to the need and the occasion, that it may be a blessing and give grace (God’s favor) to those who hear it” (Eph. 4:29 The Amplified Bible).
Prescription For a Healthy Mind
A number of years ago, Dr. David H. Fink, a psychiatrist for the veterans administration, wrote an article for Coronet Magazine, entitled, “Release from Nervous Tension.” In his article, he outlined his research into the causes of mental and emotional disturbances.
From over 10,000 case studies, he discovered that there was a common trait with all his patients who suffered from severe tension. They were habitual fault-finders, constant critics of people and things around them. Those who were free from tension, were the least critical. His conclusions were that the habit of fault-finding is a prelude or mark of the nervous, or the mentally unbalanced. Those who wish to retain good emotional and mental health, should learn to free themselves from a negative and critical attitude.
Remember this, the Bible doesn’t promise peace to those who dwell on the faults of others! It says that the Lord will keep them in perfect peace, whose minds are stayed on Him! (Isaiah 26:3).
We're all capable of reading the article from the link you gave. You didn't have to copy and paste it, too. Who is obsessed with whom here? Seems you and the "anti-anti-Bellevue" crowd are rather obsessed yourselves. Oh, and thank you for implying that we're mentally and emotionally disturbed. So nonjudgmental of you to point that out!
Here is an excellent description of the type of abuse we're talking about. Is the name of this ministry not incredibly ironic?
It's more than interesting to notice that those who tend to throw the "judgmental" and "critical" penalty flag tend to not comprehend the fact that while in the very midst of doing so, they themselves are often guilty of the exact offense they proclaim to despise.
Is that righteous, dichotomous, paradoxical, or is it just the plain ol' "H" word? (Pick only one, for I am slow.)
Educate me.
Just sayin'.
oc.
Among God’s warnings to us in scripture, there are none more somber or serious than His warning to not become a stumbling block to His followers. “
...whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matt. 18:6).
If any scripture can be used to explain the damage done by the BBC and SBC leadership ..this would certainly be one of the verses I would use.
The behavior by these people have proven what non belivers have said about "Christians" for a long time. Many will never darken the door of a church now.
They got the confirmation they needed by seeing who leadership defended (the predator and not the victims), and how the church treated those who dare have a dissagree....and on and on.
the whole thing is really boring to me now.
I've decided if I ever go to a church building again....I will go to a "liberal" church. I attended a business meeting at one and was very impressed with how people were free to express their opinions about church decisions.
There were at least 3 different prospectives given and no one cheered, booed, shut down mics, or acted low class.
IN FACT, even women spoke....Oh MY!!!
dare have a dissagree
Sorry...dare to disagree
The main problem with criticism is that so much of it is well deserved.
Isn't calling fellow believers who left Bellevue "trash" just a little judgemental? Actually a lot judgemental.
Aren't we suppose to correct error or do we just allow everyone to do that which is right in his own eyes?
"There's been speculation for well over a year that Steve and/or Donna Gaines will be somehow involved in or the focus of some big "miracle" presumably calculated to draw in the masses."
"What's next? Huckstering anointing oil and prayer cloths at the end of BBC's Sunday morning broadcasts?"
That is why I shared the article I stumbled across on having a critical spirit. As an outside observer it seems that absent an actual issue, you have trafficked in rumor, conjecture, and speculation.
The scripture quoted mentioned the danger of causing a weaker brother to stumble. How much more should we be concerned when we tear each other down and harm our witness among those who do not have a relationship with Christ.
I am not trying to argue with anyone, or criticize anyone, but simply to encourage to consider what scripture says.
"There's been speculation for well over a year that Steve and/or Donna Gaines will be somehow involved in or the focus of some big "miracle" presumably calculated to draw in the masses."
FYI, that wasn't speculation on my part, so please don't give me credit for an idea that wasn't mine. That's been the talk among some of the staff around the seminary for over a year. Perhaps you need to forward the seminary's administration a copy of that article, too.
"I am not trying to argue with anyone, or criticize anyone, but simply to encourage to consider what scripture says."
Right. Sure sounded awfully "critical" to me. Must just be my guilty conscience.
"FYI, that wasn't speculation on my part, so please don't give me credit for an idea that wasn't mine."
So it was gossip as well as speculation.
"That's been the talk among some of the staff around the seminary for over a year. Perhaps you need to forward the seminary's administration a copy of that article, too."
Thank you. I certainly will.
And let me add, that if the source of the speculation you sited it true, that is heartbreaking.
Good! I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear from such a spiritual giant as yourself!
Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary
2095 Appling Road
Cordova, TN 38016
And seriously, I really cannot take credit for that idea. That's where it originated, and I would not say that if it weren't true.
You know, what I think is heartbreaking is that the actions of Steve Gaines would make anyone even think of such a thing. Heartbreaking, indeed!
To whom would you suggest I address the letter?
Addressing it to the front desk would not be very effective in getting this to the right person/persons.
"Good! I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear from such a spiritual giant as yourself!"
From earlier article:
An Unrenewed Mind - Put-downs, making-fun-of, criticism, sarcasm are the world’s ways of reacting to the faults of people. However, as Christians we don’t behave this way. Our thinking and attitude should be renewed by the Word of God, which teaches us to bear the infirmities of the weak, to love, and show compassion and encouragement (Rom. 12:2).
"To whom would you suggest I address the letter?"
I'm sure you'll figure out someone to address it to. I gave you the address. Must I do everything? I would encourage you to do your homework.
And you do sound like a spiritual giant. Why would you think that was criticism?
Peace, brother.
It has been my observation that oftentimes when one hears something that is too painful to admit, that one tends to deny the truth and attempts to mitigate the pain by trying to demean and diminish the message and/or the messenger who is perceived as the one who has caused that one's world to become unstablilized by the information provided by said messenger.
In other words. Truth hurts. Your security is threatened. Your reality is at risk. You want to feel secure and in control of your world. Someone has messed that up. That threatens you. So you will attack any one who tells you anything you don't want to hear. That may be understandable for the world. But that attitude is not acceptable and is not coming from the Throne.
No charge. Just a thought. :)
oc.
"I'm sure you'll figure out someone to address it to. I gave you the address. Must I do everything? I would encourage you to do your homework."
I could address it to Dr. Spradlin, but assuming he isn't the source (and I would pray he was not) that would not be productive.
"And you do sound like a spiritual giant. Why would you think that was criticism?"
You were obviously being sarcastic and now you are compounding that by being dishonest.
As you are my sister in Christ, it saddens me for you.
David Brown asked me to post this:
"Please go to the following link. A fairly significant article has been published in the Memphis News this week. The newspaper hits the newsstand tomorrow but is already posted on their website. Those who believe the Catholic Church is doing better than the Baptist or any other faith might want to reconsider their opinions. Please read the article all the way to the end, and then go to page 30 and read their editorial and an article from someone you might know. Much is yet to be done.
"Yes, the Catholic Church enacted a 'policy' in 2002 in Dallas to deal with this stuff, yet they rarely follow it. Those policies were just good sound bites to appease the faithful. Well, that does not work. We are not easily appeased regardless of what faith you follow."
Here is the link.
David Brown
SNAP Director-Memphis
901/569-4500
"You were obviously being sarcastic and now you are compounding that by being dishonest."
Well, actually I was just being sarcastic again. Thank you for your concern though... and for only questioning the state of our emotional and mental health and not our salvation. That's an improvement over what we've heard from others!
In his evening sermon from 10-22-06 Steve Gaines had this to say about the recalcitrants:
"Rebellion is like the sin of witchcraft or divination. King James says witchcraft. And insubordination is like iniquity and idolatry because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he rejected you from being king." (I momentarily lost him for a minute here. He skips around in the Bible so much -- I think he had jumped to the OT here. Which king, I'm not sure.) "I want to tell you something. When somebody has a rebellious spirit toward the will of God. This may sound harsh but it's the truth. They might as well go to their homes, draw a pentagram on their floor, start burning candles, and start worshiping Satan because rebellion against God and God's authority is like witchcraft in God's eyes."
Now, who do you think he was talking about here when he said "God's authority"? I'm certain he's used "God's anointed authority" in other messages, including near the beginning of the 10-8-06 morning sermon, "Relating Biblically to Your Parents."
BTW, these sermons were recently removed from the BBC online archives.
Sounds as if the young Gaines is a chip off the old block.
Nepotism? What nepotism?
Barney Bus,
By all means, address your letter to Dr. Spradin. As president of the seminary, if any of the employees there said something that does not reflect well on the school, he should want to know and seek to address any concerns with the employees.
"Barney Bus"
Now, junk, you know that's a sign of an unrenewed mind.
NASS,
My mind indeed needs much more renewing.
But Barney is a loving and much loved character -- and no doubt a Christian, for who else believes in dinosaurs being alive on the planet at the same time as humans? And a Bus with Barney on or in it is truly a Special bus. So I can't see anyone taking offense to those associations, unless they were just of a mind to pick at whatever some people say.
"I am not trying to argue with anyone, or criticize anyone, but simply to encourage to consider what scripture says."
Why would you assume that was never a consideration before you showed up here to suggest it?
I would encourage you to peruse the cut and paste job you meant to bless us with and consider that the application may be useful in a much more personal way.
Just sayin'.
oc.
Gmommy,
In response to your question at 10:19 PM, October 19, 2008 ... I'm still trying to think of a suitably profound and funny reply, but I'll let you know when I do.
(But please don't feel bad about my lack of a response; I'm still waiting for a response to my question to Lynn at 9:40 PM, October 19, 2008.)
"But Barney is a loving and much loved character -- and no doubt a Christian, for who else believes in dinosaurs being alive on the planet at the same time as humans?"
Wow! Who knew? You gotta admit that's profound.
Is that profound or profane? I get them two mixed up sometimes.
But are you sure about Barney?
This guy isn't.
And here's Proof That Barney Is Actually The Antichrist!
Given: Barney is a cute purple dinosaur.
Extract the Roman numerals (and remember that the Romans had no letter "U", they used the "V" instead).
CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR
CV__ _V__L_ DI_____V_
Now add them:
100 + 5 + 5 + 50 + 500 + 1 + 5 = 666
Uh oh.
Oh my goodness. The boogie man is behind every bush. Well, besides all that creepy satanic spookalogical stuff, I have to admit that a prancing effeminate purple dinosaur who sings "I love you, you love me, we're a happy family, with a great big hug and a kiss from me to you, won't you say you love me too?" just has to be at least...of a different denomination.
:)
oc.
oc said...
Oh my goodness. The boogie man is behind every bush. Well, besides all that creepy satanic spookalogical stuff, I have to admit that a prancing effeminate purple dinosaur who sings "I love you, you love me, we're a happy family, with a great big hug and a kiss from me to you, won't you say you love me too?" just has to be at least...of a different denomination.
Glad you know the words, bro. You gave yourself away with that!!
Not so sure about the different denomination, though. Remember this?
Junk,
I know the words because I...uh...oh yeah, I looked it up on the internet! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!
And ok, maybe Barney is SB. Good grief!
Nass, I watched the videos. All I could think was... Elmer Gantry has a son!
barnabas,
As an outsider, what do you know about the abuses of the Bellevue leadership? Or do you just assume any criticism is unwarranted? That's a judgement call on your part. Or maybe you're a Personal Friend of Steve and you just know there's nothing to it. Am I warm?
Perhaps you'd have some choice words for the Apostle Paul, who called down the leadership of the church at Corinth for immorality and he wasn't even present. Tsk, tsk, what a critical spirit!
If you're just coming here to scold sheep, hurt by a church and its pastor, for airing their grievances because they weren't allowed a forum within that church, I humbly suggest you find a better use for your gift of "encouragement." This forum is just about the only thing holding the BBC leadership accountable anymore -- and their actions suggest it has an effect.
It's October 24th.
Happy Birthday, Blogger Sheeps!
Thank you for two enlightening years. I treasure the sheep friends I've met here!
HaPpY BiRtHdAy, NASS! Thank you for leading us beside still water. I can imagine the Good Shepherd will be coming any day now. It's been nice to be in your company!
___________________________________________
Have you seen the court document (signed tuesday) that says Obama is not a natural born citizen?
I know there have been questions and allegations about Obama's citizenship. Details of this history are easily available with a Google search.
Anyway, on October 22 it seems as if a court in Pennsylvania signed a Statement of Summary Judgment per the Plaintiff's (Phillip J. Berg, Esquire) request that Obama be declared ineligible as a Presidential candidate due to the neglect on his part to respond to the court and Plaintiff within a certain time frame in accordance with the law. According to the rule of law, the defendant had 30 days once the request was submitted to answer the allegations and (according to the law) in neglecting to do so has as in effect done the same as admitting to the claims. The 30 days HAVE expired and the court signed on this tuesday.
Here's the link to the official court document: CLICK HERE! It's wordy, but interesting.
Thoughts? Why would this official court ruling not be "big news"? (I can see why speculation on the internet is not big news, and I can see the MSM spinning things, but an official court document that basically says that Obama has admitted -- by not replying to the court's request -- that he's not a natural born citizen)? How can this man still be running for POTUS? Am I missing something?
Have you seen the court document (signed tuesday) that says Obama is not a natural born citizen?
I know there have been questions and allegations about Obama's citizenship. Details of this history are easily available with a Google search.
Anyway, on October 22 it seems as if a court in Pennsylvania signed a Statement of Summary Judgment per the Plaintiff's (Phillip J. Berg, Esquire) request that Obama be declared ineligible as a Presidential candidate due to the neglect on his part to respond to the court and Plaintiff within a certain time frame in accordance with the law. According to the rule of law, the defendant had 30 days once the request was submitted to answer the allegations and (according to the law) in neglecting to do so has as in effect done the same as admitting to the claims. The 30 days HAVE expired and the court signed on this tuesday.
Here's the link to the official court document: CLICK HERE! It's wordy, but interesting.
Thoughts? Why would this official court ruling not be "big news"? (I can see why speculation on the internet is not big news, and I can see the MSM spinning things, but an official court document that basically says that Obama has admitted -- by not replying to the court's request -- that he's not a natural born citizen)? How can this man still be running for POTUS? Am I missing something?
7:58 AM, October 24, 2008
Let me clarify this....
The judge HAS NOT RULED on this. That document is just the filing that Peter Berg submitted to the judge for a Summary judgement. The judge has not actually ruled on this.
Junk said,
"Glad you know the words, bro. You gave yourself away with that!!"
OK Junk, a I'm a bit slow, but this just occurred to me. How do you know I got the words right? You gave yourself away with THAT!!
This is the story Lynn's talking about. Don't know what specific article he's referring to. The "CLICK HERE" doesn't click. This may have been it.
We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.
Berg video.
I will say that if Berg does have a tape that is purported to prove what he claims, why is he waiting to make it public?
This whole lawsuit seems suspicious to me really. Berg is a Hillary supporter. If he suspected this all along, why didn't he file this back during the primaries instead of waiting till the end of August to do so? Seems funny to me.
Man,
They'll throw anything at Obama, hoping something sticks. If one takes issue with his politics, vote another way--that's everyone's right.
But all this is getting ridiculous--he's either a Muslim, or a socialist (who socialized the banking industry?) or a terrorist-sympathizer, the fact that he is intelligent, measured and well-spoken make him more of a snake (the dreaded East-coast liberal), promotes eugenics and who knows what else will be levied against him before Nov. 4. Someone will point out they caught him making a left turn in his vehicle.
I believe we should all vote for the ticket we each believe in, by all means; but trashing the guy to make the opponent more attractive looks desparate and in poor taste.
Berg also filed a grievance saying 9/11 was an inside job--that got about as much traction as this deposition. Anybody want to get on board with that claim of Berg's?
Easy Cakes. Who's "getting on board" for anything? Those I know here are intelligent people who will make the decision with intellect and conviction, not by what anyone has stuck in their ear.
Just sayin'.
oc.
OC,
Don't be quick to get insulted--I'm merely making a point; and have made no assumptions as to who believes Berg. Only that I hear these accusations regularly and prominant Rebublicans are vocally distancing themselves right and left from this kind of campaign tactic.
Cakes,
Oh no. Not insulted at all. Sorry to come across that way. It's just that I hear accusations all the time that Christians are mindless drones, and the last sentence of your previous comment reminded me of that.
I was sure that's not what you meant, so I was just clarifying.
HIs being the point man to oppose the Born Alive bill in Illinois is enough for me. Not once but 2x. He sat there and listened to nurses talking about born alive aborted babies in the mothers last months of pregnancy being put in the soiled laundry room to die. They were denied any medical care.
He was the point man to get votes against this bill to give these babies medical care maybe even saving their lives.
That makes him a barbarian in my view. A proponet of infanticide. Who is next, unproductive old people when we have socialized medicine?
There is too much about this guy we really do not know.
Lin,
That was the area that was unthinkable for me.
The babies born alive from late term abortions have already been thru horrific abuse.
To allow them to suffer for the minutes to hours it takes for them to die is unimaginable to me.
Most people who consider themselves "pro choice" have no idea what a late term partial birth abortion is. Preemies would be on life support and have the best medical care.
The whole process of late term abortions....that we allow this abuse to babies makes me vomit.
Then we just leave them to die???
Congrats NASS on your blog hitting the two year mark!
Well, if leaving babies to die in laundry rooms does not bother folks, then maybe just maybe listening to Jeremiah Wright sermons that OBama listened to from his mentor of 20 years might convince them. Of course, when people started checking out Wright and what he teaches, Obama distanced himself. Go to the website of that church and read about it. It is not Christ centered but Africa Centered. He teaches Marxist Liberation Theory. All white people are bad and only Africa has the correct 'religion'.
Or maybe his personal support of Oringa in Kenya who promised the Muslims Sharia law if he was elected.
(Obama attended a Koranic boys school in Indonesia)
Where does a junior senator...a one term senator, get the money to run for President? He had no war chest...has not been around long enough.
The irony is that Obama makes Clinton look like a conservative!
So what happens if the superficial actually becomes president? What does that mean to the faithful?
I think we should go back to Scripture and just get ready.
Just sayin'.
oc.
This forum is just about the only thing holding the BBC leadership accountable anymore -- and their actions suggest it has an effect.
This would make me laugh if it weren't so sadly deluded that it made me cry instead.
a2j, do you seriously think your efforts here have any effect whatsoever at Bellevue? Type a few anonymous words on a blog no one at Bellevue reads and you're making a difference?
Just go and enjoy your happy happy church wherever you're attending now, and leave the accountability at BBC to those of us who have chosen to give up their 'feel good' time on Sunday mornings to try and make a difference. I suppose you think I should run off and hide until things change themselves similar to the way you have, but I disagree. Sometimes sacrifice is the only way to change things.
Karen,
Thanks for the update. We'll be in prayer until your mother is well again. Soon, hopefully. My oldest daughter thinks she remembers your mom from 'All Sing' rehearsal a few years ago, and she's been after me to find out the latest. Keep taking good care of her!
It's hopeless.
So that's what I'm experiencing....happy happy and feel good on Sunday morning.
Now THAT'S delusional.....
can't even watch church on TV anymore much less walk in one.
Yes...it's ALL about being happy happy for me.
I don't EXPECT anything what so ever from Sol or anyone else at BBC. Absolutely nothing.
What they do is their business and what those who post here do....it's our own business...and once again...
what we do has nothing to do with Solomon's life or views or opinions.
If only ANYONE would have "sacrificed" anything at all ....maybe those who still desire, could be attending the ONLY church in Memphis where Christians are left!!!
IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN!!!! (sigh...)
This forum has nothing to do with "accountability" TO ME at all at this stage of the game....
I CAN give a small example of one time when what was written on the blog made a difference to a lot of people driving down Germantown Parkway.
We couldn't get over the tacky garish sign BBC spent who knows what on without consulting whoever used to be in charge of taste.
Wasn't long before that sign was cleaned up, redone....and not long after that until a now ex staff person emailed me to let me know the cost of just the REDO!!!!
This forum meets various needs for different people at different times.
Not about one thing or one person.
Want me to share my melatonin, OC??? :)
Yes ma'am. Maybe so.
oc.
"Type a few anonymous words on a blog no one at Bellevue reads and you're making a difference?"
You read it. Apparently you've devoted a whole blog to it yourself. Therefore, I must conclude you're no one.
That my friend, is perfect logic.
solomon said...
"Just go and enjoy your happy happy church wherever you're attending now, and leave the accountability at BBC to those of us who have chosen to give up their 'feel good' time on Sunday mornings to try and make a difference. I suppose you think I should run off and hide until things change themselves similar to the way you have, but I disagree. Sometimes sacrifice is the only way to change things."
BUT
Steve said....
"..we're in this fight together"
"..we're in this fight together"
"...we can not allow the devil divide us..."
"..we must preserve the unity of the spirit of the bond of peace.."
"..you've got to have spirit filled leaders.."
Steve Gaines / David Coombs
This type of snipping only serves the enemy. The truth is enough, the side bar comments are distracting and divisive.
Oh,this is sooooooo much fun. I just love to see one side turn on itsself and then wonder how they managed to loose to the other side.
What??????
To NASS:
I think your blog is missing a link to comments beyond 200 comments for a post.
Example:
Is "The Big One" just around the corner?
I thought you all are quiet in here. I was wondering where everyone went. But when I went to post a comment, I found all the missing comments :-)
Just as my comments were confusing to you, much of what is printed here is confusing to a new comer like me. It not only covers the world, sort of speaking, but it many times appears to be cotridictory.
i enjoy a lot of it. Please be kind to late comers and those of us who love BBC and for what it HAS stood for. [Now I am not sure what it stands for!]
"I think your blog is missing a link to comments beyond 200 comments for a post."
No, Blogger changed the format a while back. Now there are only 200 comments per page. Once the number of comments in a thread exceeds 200, the "missing links" of which you speak will appear near the top and bottom of each comment page. The links are in tiny blue letters and say "Newest" and "Newer" and/or "Oldest" and "Older."
Just go and enjoy your happy happy church wherever you're attending now, and leave the accountability at BBC to those of us who have chosen to give up their 'feel good' time on Sunday mornings to try and make a difference. I suppose you think I should run off and hide until things change themselves similar to the way you have, but I disagree. Sometimes sacrifice is the only way to change things.
Really? I'm sorry to hear you're still suffering there. Have you chosen to sacrifice your family as well in this noble quest? No concerns for their spiritual health while you tilt at windmills? Our kids got sick and tired of hearing about each new scandal at BBC and us wondering what, if anything, would be done. We finally realized it had become an unhealthy obsession.
It was also apparent that nothing could shame the leadership into taking action. The primary quality required for leadership at Bellevue is business acumen. Go ahead, see if you can find a regular working stiff anywhere among the ruling elite. In business, money talks, everything else walks. The status quo must be maintained above all; otherwise your control of all that lovely money is jeopardized.
So just how are you trying to make a difference and hold these guys accountable? Scriptural means have been exhausted to no avail, rebuffed time and again. What novel (i.e. non-scriptural) approach do you propose? It surely doesn't involve asking hard questions or you'd have already been invited to find yourself a new church like the rest of us.
So spare us your condemnation. After all, I don't condemn you for staying. By the way, didn't you visit Germantown Baptist a time or two? What was up with that, Sol?
Please don't fret about it All2Jesus. It was just yet another frantic drive-by stimulated by the pain of insecurity caused by the slow realization that what was thought sure is now very uncertain. I think we should pray for the shooter.
Just sayin'.
oc.
"..... Scriptural means have been exhausted to no avail, rebuffed time and again. What novel (i.e. non-scriptural) approach do you propose? It surely doesn't involve asking hard questions or you'd have already been invited to find yourself a new church like the rest of us."
Worth repeating...thank you alltojesus.
I have no expectations that it will be heard but it is very true.
I don't know why anyone would want to subject themselves or their family to that, even without Achan's loot under the carpet.
Is that the Achan who was stoned to death by Israel? Are you implying that me and my family should be stoned to death by you, gmommy, and the rest of the faithful 'remnant'? Would it give you a great joy to witness the blood gushing forth from me or one of my teenage daughters after you had hurled your stone?
Perhaps in a way I would welcome that, since it would give me some sense of closure.
Many of the deserters seem confused that some of us who remain at BBC would dislike them. As long as you call us instruments of Satan and hunger to kill us, how else should we feel? Granted that God called us to bless those who curse us and desire our deaths, but we're not perfect yet.
It makes me quite angry that someone would suggest death for me and my family as the solution to Bellevue's problems.
For the record, I no longer have any friends on this blog. I once thought that there were a few folks who shared my desire to restore BBC to its former stature, but that's obviously not the case. Despite my differences with many of the BBC membership, most of them are committed to supporting me and mine through their prayers. That's a whole lot more than I can say for this blog. Who's my neighbor? I'd say it's those who pray for me.
Scriptural means have been exhausted to no avail
Scriptural? What a joke! Justify that, a2j.
It surely doesn't involve asking hard questions or you'd have already been invited to find yourself a new church like the rest of us
Again, who decided that the only way to face adversity was to run from it? If you're going to run from every trial you face, I hope you've got a good pair of running shoes.
Jesus died because he wouldn't run from his adversaries. Maybe you're wiser than he was?
"It makes me quite angry that someone would suggest death for me and my family as the solution to Bellevue's problems."
Oh please Keith. Good grief. Where do you come up with all this dramatic stuff?
Is all your imagination about people wanting blood gushing from your teenage daughters heads and imagining the cursing of your family to death making you feel worthy for the Kingdom? No friend. You can't buy it. No matter how much you try. Jesus paid it all. Even your insecurities and fears are paid for in full. Because those are but sins. Nothing He has left you to wipe up. Leave it all at the foot of the cross.
Just sayin'.
oc.
"It makes me quite angry that someone would suggest death for me and my family as the solution to Bellevue's problems."
My, someone certainly has a vivid, not to mention macabre, imagination! You've got a big problem, sir. And it ain't "us"!
"For the record, I no longer have any friends on this blog."
Well, cry me a river. One has to be a friend to have a friend, and I've never seen any evidence of that from you. All you've ever done is criticize and attack "us." When have you ever shown any sign of wanting to be "friends" or even just "friendly" with anyone here?
Then you continue to accuse "us" of "wishing death" on you and your family. Where in the world is this stuff coming from? I assure you no one here has ever wished any harm on you or your family much less ever said or implied anything like that! You're delusional, man. Please get some help now, as I am seriously and genuinely concerned about the state of your mental health. It is not normal to believe a group of bloggers who don't know you from Adam have it in for you. I'm no psychologist, but I think they refer to that as "paranoid personality disorder" (PPD).
Hello Lucy! Where is your five cent booth when we need it?
Just sayin'.
oc.
"Who's my neighbor? I'd say it's those who pray for me."
Reckon that would be at least me.
But probably many many others. See my 8:30 post, brother.
Just sayin'.
oc.
Well, to completely change the subject, may I recommend that everyone watch Oprah's show on Friday? Here's why:
Oprah did a segment on Eliot Mooney on Tuesday, October 28. The show was on "Miracle children" and Eliot is the only one not still on this earth. Here is part of what is on Oprah's website:
______________________________________
Two months before he was born, Eliot was diagnosed with Trisomy 18—a genetic disorder with a very low survival rate. His parents, Matt and Ginny, began writing letters to him daily.
"Dear Eliot: Right now you are two months from being born," Matt wrote in one letter. "Doctors tell us that you won't likely make it to birth. Your mom and I are praying against that. We're praying for healing. We are praying for nothing less than a miracle. You're our first child, and the day of your birth couldn't come sooner."
Against the odds, Eliot survived his birth. "You are already a miracle to us," Matt wrote that day.
Every day that Eliot lived, he beat the odds. The median lifespan for children with Trisomy 18 is just five to 15 days—but Eliot just kept on surviving.
Matt and Ginny's letters to their infant son continued for 99 precious days. They turned their letters and literally thousands of photos of Eliot into a video that has now been seen nearly a million times on YouTube.
Watch 99 Balloons, the video tribute to Eliot's life.
_______________________________________
I missed the show Tuesday, but I just saw this:
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
Oprah II
Well, as if you haven't gotten enough of us, looks like we may be doing an update on the Oprah Live show this Friday (October 31). So tune in if you are so inclined.
Posted by Matt Mooney at 1:09 PM
thespectacularvernacular is Matt and Ginny's blog.
Ack! I've got to go to bed!
oc,
I think it would take more than 5 cents to work through all those problems.
Tn Liz,
Thanks for letting me know about the Oprah show.
I've seen the video and cried my heart out about those babies when Angie Luce was pregnant with Poppy Joy. I have to skip that day of Oprah. It just tears my heart out too much.
**I AM looking forward to the day Oprah has the show featuring Christa Brown and survivors of clergy sexual abuse!!
Specifically when the SBC leadership and those in the pupits of Baptists churches are exposed.
The crimes against the innocent and the wounded...and those who continue to cover for them has to be stopped.
NO MATTER what Oprah's politics and new age stuff...I respect and admire the work she has done for victims of sexual abuse.
Once the corruption in the Baptist churches is exposed, maybe then theses predators won't be able to move from church to church.
Maybe then there will be a change in leadership.
Please don't forget about Gilyard and Patterson's support of him....there is a VERY long trail of bodies and souls this ONE "minister" has left behind....and he preaches TODAY!!!
And don't forget that PP councils women to go back home to husbands who are beating and abusing them....to take their blows for the Lord.
This whole attitude, lack of obedience to scripture and absense of compassion have nothing remotely to do with Jesus.
and SPEAKING OF JESUS.....
SOLOMON:
you said "Jesus died because he wouldn't run from his adversaries."
10:52 PM, October 28, 2008
That is COMPLETELY not what scripture says, teaches, or implies.
IF you will look at your statement with an open Bible, I believe your eyes will be open.
It's one thing to believe you are doing what you should do....that's fine.
It's not good if you become so wrapped up in your own emotions that you change/add to WHY JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS.
There is NOTHING to support that Jesus died on the cross because he ran from his adversaries...nothing.
I won't even comment on what a STRETCH it is for you to accuse me or anyone on this blog of making death threats (again). That is so beyond silly or even emotional reasoning.
But not such a stretch if you have twisted in your mind that Jesus died on the cross because he wouldn't run from his adversaries.
We are not your problem, Sol.
a2j said:
I don't know why anyone would want to subject themselves or their family to that, even without Achan's loot under the carpet.
sol said:
Is that the Achan who was stoned to death by Israel? Are you implying that me and my family should be stoned to death by you, gmommy, and the rest of the faithful 'remnant'? Would it give you a great joy to witness the blood gushing forth from me or one of my teenage daughters after you had hurled your stone?
a2j: They say a word, to the wise, is sufficient. Since you clearly missed the point (or willfully ignored it), I'll spell it out for you. No, Keith, I did not mean to imply you are Achan or that the "loot" was yours. Stop for a minute and consider why the account of Achan is recorded for us. What does it teach? That we should stone sinners? No, the point is that hidden sin in the camp has far reaching consequences, in this case Israel's defeat at the hands of a puny enemy. God brought the defeat to underscore the seriousness of hidden sin and the need to purge it out.
If the sin of one sheep can bring such devastating consequences, how much more the sin of those who presume to lead the flock? This is what I meant by "Achan's loot." Do I have to spell out the litany of what they have done, the abuse of the flock, the abuse of privilege and church resources, the failure to protect the flock while a wolf prowled among them, the complete refusal of any ethical or financial accountability? Above all are the lies to excuse and cover these other sins. Why? Because they decided to lie about them before they committed them. Integrity is primarily a commitment to telling the truth and is primarily what Steve Gaines and the leadership that have enabled him lack. Bellevue will never be victorious with unconfessed, unrepented-of sin in the camp.
Sol: Perhaps in a way I would welcome that, since it would give me some sense of closure.
a2j: Quite the martyr, aren't you? I'm sure sure your daughters would rather you speak for yourself.
Sol: Many of the deserters seem confused that some of us who remain at BBC would dislike them. As long as you call us instruments of Satan and hunger to kill us...
It makes me quite angry that someone would suggest death for me and my family as the solution to Bellevue's problems.
a2j: If you're really that deluded, Keith, get some counseling.
a2j: Scriptural means have been exhausted to no avail
Sol: Scriptural? What a joke! Justify that, a2j.
a2j: This has been covered time and again. Many church members including well-respected deacons have, in accordance with Matthew 18, taken their concerns to the pastor, administrative pastor and other leaders. They have gone alone, in groups of two or three, and even groups of ten or so. The only reply they got was that pastors are not subject to Matt. 18 and are not accountable to "lay people". In other words, whatever offense a pastor may commit, there is no scriptural basis for holding him accountable at all. When private confrontation failed, members took their concerns to the church, first at an off-campus meeting (an on-campus one was denied) and finally to the internet. This has had quite an impact, but Steve Gaines and company still persist in covering themselves with lies that remain unconfessed and unrepented-of.
So we come to the final stage of dealing with sin in the camp. To fulfill the scriptural mandate, these leaders should be removed from fellowship. But they have become a law unto themselves (even refusing to submit to state law). It's beyond my ability to remove them, so I have removed myself. Call me a deserter if you wish, but severing fellowship is the instruction of scripture.
Again, who decided that the only way to face adversity was to run from it? If you're going to run from every trial you face, I hope you've got a good pair of running shoes.
And again, what are you doing to "face" the adversity? Lashing yourself to the mast doesn't change the weather. (That's a literary allusion, Keith. No need to take it as a death threat or to imply that you are Satan's First Mate or anything of the kind.) Your silence is approval by default.
Just found out that Bellevue is charging for Tree tickets this year. Next I guess they will charge for seats at the services.
Sol,
The continual harping on your personal sacrifice to stay and effect change at BBC is wearing a little old.
It is my understanding that you moved from a neighborhood to escape the crime there.
You make much of condemning us for leaving or running from a neighborhood where our fears for our spiritual well being are just as real as yours were for your physical safety.
Why don't you condemn yourself for not staying where you were to make the same noble stand against physical crime. You apparently didn't have a problem finding your running shoes then, why condemn us for using ours?
By the way, you may want to take a look at Isaiah 1. Obedience is better than sacrifice.
Yes, I know that does sound a little judgemental but then so does a lot of this...
here
Ez has been holding out on us :)
Here's an example of how early voting is going in Memphis. An acquaintance of mine went to Bartlett to vote late last Thursday afternoon. She waited in line for 1 1/2 hours. When she finally got to the front of the line, they stalled her. Finally they took her out in a hallway where she was surrounded by several men, one with a gun clearly visible in a holster, and informed her that she'd already voted. Of course, she protested, saying, "Do you think I'd have stood in that line for an hour and a half if I'd already voted?" but they were adamant. They informed her she'd have to go downtown the next day and escorted her off the premises.
Downtown she met with a man from Nashville who said someone in Frayser had used her identity to vote the previous week and that this is a huge problem in Memphis now. She was allowed to go back and vote, but they said they couldn't cancel the fraudulent vote. They know when and where the vote was cast. I can't believe they can't locate and cancel it. Guessing which presidential candidate someone from Frayser would most likely vote for and knowing the candidate she said she voted for, her vote was likely cancelled out by someone who voted illegally. And they're not doing a blamed thing about it. The man told her that in four years they'll probably be using fingerprint ID technology to eliminate this sort of fraud, but right now "there's not much we can do about it."
Wait a minute. There was enough info right there at the polling place in order to stop her from voting, yet there are no means to cancel a fraudulent vote? How did that fraudulent vote get by at another polling place? Where were the guys with the guns when the criminal cast his ballot? (And yeah, I call a fraudulent voter a criminal.)
So if this is the case, let's just pop the borders wide open. Let foreigners vote, let prisoners vote, let children vote. Let my dog vote too. Why does a vote from a decent law abiding citizen of the United States of America matter, if even one fraudulent vote can't be cancelled?
If this the way it's going to be, cast your vote for my dog Chico.
He's promised not to raise taxes on dog food and flea shampoo.
Just sayin'.
oc.
Oh, and that message was aponsored and approved by members of the Chihuahua Nation.
Hey, better yet, since I doubt Chico's got much of a chance, you should have registered him to vote.
This woman did. The case was dismissed.
Well he is registered, under some other strange party. Maybe he's not registered to vote though. But neither was that one in Frasier, were they? Yet they did it anyway.
Chico's party is something called AKC, at least that's what I think his papers said. See, he has more papers than some voters have!
Chico for president!
Just sayin'.
oc.
And I even got his birth certificate! He gave it up quite voluntarily and with expedience.
Plus any of his other records too.
Just sayin'.
oc.
To NASS: Here is an example, why I think some settings in your blogger account are causing the links beyond 200 comments to not show (sometimes).
This is a link to Pastor Wade's blog article, and you will see it has links beyond 200 comments:
The Issue Is Pushing Personal Convictions on All
Here is your link to this post:
Is "The Big One" just around the corner?
Once you go past the main post, to the beginning of comments, you will see the differences.
Thanks for you help.
To NASS: One more comment. :-)
I think in the bottom of each comment, the link you have for each comment, is not working as well.
The reason I am bringing this up is, I sometimes, reference some of your reader comments that are pertinent to say fbcjax, I have to provide a link to the comments I quote, so readers can check the validity of my postings.
Test it yourself. You will see they do not work at all. Whereas in other blogs when you use the hyperlinks for each comment, it will take you there exactly.
God bless you, for all the good work you do here.
Come on now,
"...can't we all just get along?"
We know who our enemy is don't we?
Answer Here
Happy Fall Festival
thy peace,
I've looked at Wade's blog. On my computer at least, it works just like this one -- 200 comments per page, and the links at the bottom of posts (do you mean posts or comments?) work the same. What am I missing?
The 200-comment thing is something Blogger changed a few months ago. There is no setting that will change it unless I want to allow comments in a little pop-up window (at least this is said to be a workaround), but to me that's a whole lot more annoying than having to click on "Newer" one time to see the next page of comments.
I don't see a way to link to individual comments.
Well, gopher. I can see where "solomon" gets it now.
Love the ending!
Happy Fall Festival to you, too!
Sorry, I meant "Happy Fall FUN Festival!" Can't leave out the FUN, can we?
Oh, how soon people forget...
WatchingHISstory said...
friends, I bid you 'adieu' I shake the dust off my feet to you.
Matthew 10:14-15 (KJV)
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
-also see Luke 10:10-11; Acts 13:51; 18:6
Follow my blog for updates. If you say stupid things I will respond by post for you to read.
Feel free to comment on my blog.
It has been an enjoyabe experience debating you. Please feel free to rant about me as I need the advertizing.
As regards the gospel you have become the enemies of God, for the sake of the real seekers, but as regards the election you are the beloved.
I bid you farewell!
Watching His Story
Charles Page
October 4, 2008 9:01 PM
Farewell, Charles! Go rant about us to your heart's content on your own blog. You are not welcome here.
"Who does the free 2 site videos about SG/Bellevue?"
"free 2" Duh.
I've heard there was an interesting piece on the "Fall Fun Festival" on Channel 3 at 5:00 tonight. Perhaps they'll run it again at 6:00. Tim Simpson interviewed "Brother" Steve who was munching on a corndog. Yummm....
Area Halloween Events
from WREC Channel 3 news...
Here are some events happening in our area:
First Baptist Church in Millington on West Union Road near Highway 51 is holding their annual Family Fall Festival on October 31 that starts at 6pm and ends at 8pm. There is fun games, train rides, Inflatable kid's fun, food, and lots of candy for the kid's. Free to attend.
Black Cat Bash October 31 7:30 P.M. to 11 P.M. Ages 21 and older Only $13 admission. Beer, wine and food available for purchase. Must present valid I.D. upon entry Halloween isn't just for the kids anymore. We're going to paint the Zoo black in the spookiest bash of the year. In this adults-only event, we'll have a live costume contest, and wine/beer available for purchase. Don't miss this special black cat affair. From 7:30 to 11 pm. This event is expected to sell out, and tickets are limited.
Bellevue Baptist Church: "Family Fun Festival" on October 31. Carnival rides, games, hayrides, inflatable's, Clowns and more. 6 to 10pm.
Agri-Center: The Cornfield Maze salute the Memphis Tigers.
4 to 10pm.
Admission is $12 for 12 years old and older and $7 for ages 6-11.
Go to Mississippi to Cedar Hill Farms in Hernando, Mississippi and get a wristband and enjoy the Haunted Hayride, The Trail of Terrors, and The Black Hole. The Trail of Terrors takes you through a path in the woods where you will be scared at every turn and the Hayride is fun for adults and somewhat scary for children. The fun starts at dark until 10pm on Friday and Saturday nights in October.
I suppose a Halloween celebration by any other name....
Please disregard the now deleted comments. The author is likely just off his meds again.
It is cracking me up to see Palin's little girl just casually eating while her mom is being interviwed on whatever station I am watching. Palin isn't even worrying about making her stop and be proper.
Has the husband said anything for those watching???
That would be Greta Van Susteren on FOX News. It first ran at 9:00 tonight.
"Has the husband said anything for those watching???"
He did talk some when Greta asked him questions. He said something to the effect of when she gets going he just stands back and supports her. (Must not be a Southern Baptist.) At one point he looked over at Piper and mouthed, "No more candy!"
There has been a lot of talk about Palin as the Republican's choice of VP as some kind of a political stunt manufactured in order to woo fundamental Christians to the polls. The democrats only ammunition is to pit the choice of the Republican VP versus the Dems Presidential nominate. That in itself should say something very loud. The Dems cannot afford to pick the argument which would pit apples to apples, oranges to oranges. Uh, it's McCain vs. Obama, by the way. Not Palin vs. Obama.
(But I think she would do well anyway).
But anyhow. If I go ahead and concede that indeed it is the case that the Republicans have strategically chosen Palin, then may I be afforded that very same freedom to suggest that the choice of Obama as a nominee for the PRESIDENCY of the United States of America was one of those stunts fomenting a tactic constructed under the facade of political correctness, sense of entitlement, and playing on false guilt, which construct of course appeals to certain demographics as well?
Come on people, it certainly is politics.
Just sayin'.
oc.
My Angus Young costume lost to Sarah Palin at work yesterday, I shoulda gone as Joe the Plummer.
Tim Simpson is a member of Bellevue so having Channel 3 going live from the Bellevue Halloween Carnival should not surprise anyone.
What churches are doing to draw the world into them is amazing. I'll not be surprised to see church night at Hooters next.
No wonder America is where we are tonight. The church has gone crazy and most people who attend these churches don't have the foggiest reservation about any of it.
Tim has arrived since Steve arrived and joined right after the PW incident.
He attended First Evangelical Church before that.
I can't believe anyone who was part of 1st Evangelical Church would be drawn to Bellevue after Steve Gaines was involved in harboring a pedophile and all of the other issues that have gone on.
People are drawn to a worldly church for worldy reasons.
Amazing, isn't it?
For our out-of-town readers, Tim Simpson is one of Channel 3's meteorologists. His blog.
I have to say, as bad as this and this are, they can't compete with the BBC version.
Here is what Tim had to say about joining the Bellevue choir 6/27/07:
Through the years I've sung in talent shows, weddings, funerals and anything else that would come along. In college I had the opportunity to sing in the opera IL
Four years ago I started singing with Steve Clarke and Jeff Findlay from First Evangelical Church. Our group is called the River City Trio. The River City Trio sings for an afternoon picnic at First Evangelical Church.
It's been a great experience for each of us and we're constantly amazed at the number of opportunities we've received through the years. We've cut two music cd's and had a lot of fun in the process. By the way, I don't consider myself a great soloist, but I do enjoy singing with the trio and I just deal with the solo parts when they come along.
Now that our family is at Bellevue Baptist Church, we're WOW'd by the quality of music. The church choir is currently recruiting new members and I was invited to drop in for a visit. Jamie Parker is the music minister and I like his professional yet down home approach. They cover a great quantity of music in a small amount of time. It's a challenge to keep up.
On my first visit, I headed over to the bass section. I'm actually a baritone, but I didn't think I could hang with the tenors. The guys singing bass were great, but they were a bit too low for me. So at last night's rehearsal, I determined to find the tenor section. Once again, great guys but they were just a bit too high for me. I've determined that I should be sitting in the middle of the men's section.
Once rehearsal was over, I talked to some of the guys sitting in the middle. They informed me that they were singing the baritone parts. But I didn't see any baritone parts written in the music. I liked the response I got from one of the guys: "We just sing with the tenors until they start getting too high, then we drop back and sing the bass part". Hey, that sounds like a plan to me. Just put me in the middle--I'm with those guys!
Tim used to work for WHNT-TV, in Huntsville, AL back in the early 90's
"Many of the deserters seem confused that some of us who remain at BBC would dislike them."
Gee, Sol....I know people who have practically been accosted in other church parking lots by people who stayed at BBC. We don't THINK some of these people "dislike" us - we've come face to face with them! Some of my friends can't even go to an exercise class or a Bible study at a different church without a BBCer who used to be their "friend" going off on them. This might be where we get the idea we are disliked. Usually my friends don't even have time to open their mouths to offer a greeting before they are told off.
"deserters" huh?
This from a news article this morning:
"As many as a third of Mississippi counties have reported more registered voters than adults over the age of 18. Some county clerks have pledged to work on purging their voter rolls after this year's election."
"Some county clerks" and "after this year's election" speak volumes. Why not all county clerks and why not before this year's election?
Top 10 Predictions No Matter Who Wins the Election
1. The Bible will still have all the answers.
2. Prayer will still work.
3. The Holy Spirit will still move.
4. God will still inhabit the praises of His people.
5. There will still be God-anointed preaching.
6. There will still be singing of praise to God.
7. God will still pour out blessings upon His people.
8. There will still be room at the Cross.
9. Jesus will still love you.
10. Jesus will still save the lost.
ISN'T IT GREAT TO KNOW WHO IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE IN CONTROL?
TN Lizzie said:
ISN'T IT GREAT TO KNOW WHO IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE IN CONTROL?
Amen, and amen.
That is the only thing that will help me not turn on the TV and go to bed and get a good night's sleep.
Whatever comes, HE is in control.
Whatever comes, I am HIS and HE is mine.
Love to you all.
http://bensguide.gpo.gov/6-8/election/electoral.html
About the electoral college:
"After Election Day, on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December, these electors assemble in their state capitals, cast their ballots, and officially select the next President of the United States...
The votes of the electors are then sent to Congress where the President of the Senate opens the certificates, and counts the votes. This takes place on January 6, unless that date falls on a Sunday. In that case, the votes are counted on the next day...
The President-elect and Vice President-elect take the oath of office and are inaugurated two weeks later, on January 20th."
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Sounds to me like this is not a done deal yet. Wouldn't that just be like God, to do what seems impossible!?!
Electoral College Link ~ Sorry!
Gee, Sol....I know people who have practically been accosted in other church parking lots by people who stayed at BBC. We don't THINK some of these people "dislike" us - we've come face to face with them!
Well, golly gee Diana...
I know people (including myself) who have been accused of serving Satan himself because we didn't abandon Bellevue at the proper time. That goes a bit beyond dislike, wouldn't you say? Telling someone they're serving the lord of evil?
Why would a BBC member be in another church parking lot accosting members of another church? I think you need to clarify that statement somewhat. Faithful BBC members don't hang out in the parking lots of other churches looking for trouble. We've long since given up on your returning to our congregation. You've gone on record as branding us as Assembly of God, and branding the Assembly of God as Satanic. Why would hell bound souls like us concern ourselves with someone as holy as you, someone so clearly destined for such eternal glory when our own damnation is assured?
All facetiousness aside, I think it's time for a lot of folks to clarify their opinions. I'm tired of the "all BBC members are damned, but there are a few who haven't seen the light yet". Either hate us, or don't. Quit wimping out. We're either servants of Satan, or we're not.
No faithful BBC member has said that any of you are servants of the dark lord, so who among you would say that of us?
Another rhetorical queston...
Sol,
You apparently cannot read. I did not ever say people who remained at BBC for whatever reason are serving Satan. I did probably say Satan has taken over and in some regards I think that is true. I'm sure you have a quote of mine somewhere you can dig up so go for it. I have good friends who remain at BBC and I have very civil conversations with all of them. One of them happens to be a doctor who has gone a very long way to save one of my loved ones. I would never in a million years accuse him of being in service to Satan. He loves the Lord and saved someone who is extremely dear to me. I talk to him usually every week or two and for awhile we were speaking a couple of times a week. We have a great relationship. We can look BEYOND BBC which apparently you refuse to do.
I also have very close friends who grew up in the Assembly of God church and who are now Baptist and I have other close friends who are still Assembly of God. They are extremely concerned about their own denomination as we are concerned about the state of ours. My friends are not in service to Satan but to the Lord.
I said in my earlier email that my friends have been accosted in other church parking lots by people who are still at BBC. I said they were going to exercise classes or Bible studies. Do you fail to realize that there are Bible studies going on all over the Shelby/Fayette/Tipton County area with former and current BBC members in them? Some people who are still at BBC do stray away from there occasionally to study the Bible at other churches. I go to a study with several former and current BBCers and I went last year or maybe 2 years ago with even more former and current members. BBCers do tend to get out of the BBC parking lot sometimes. Also there are exercise classes going on at other churches that current and former BBCers attend. I know this because my friends have told me about their experiences. I am so sorry you cannot believe these things have been happening for 2 years but they have and they are probably continuing. In fact, no one that I know on our "side" has been anywhere near as angry, rude and offensive as they have been on your "side." Obviously you think I have been that rude and offensive but I think you have misconstrued much of what I have said or else I have not been stating what I believe in an understandable manner. I will try to do better in the future.
The following message was delivered at Times Square Church in New York City by David Wilkerson. I received it in a newsletter dated October 6, 2008. It is long, but it is a GOOD read. Very convicting and very encouraging: Getting Ready for the End of All Things
It begins:
In his first letter to the church, Peter speaks of the last days. He states bluntly: “The end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins” (1 Peter 4:7–8).
Peter also mentions the last days in his second epistle....
-snip-
Now, in his message about the end times, Peter focuses not on having needs met but on the importance of preparing our hearts. Thus, he says, “Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness…?” (2 Peter 3:11).
In the face of all that is to come, Peter zeros in on character issues.
The apostle is asking us, in essence, “What is in your heart in these last days? Who are you becoming as the end times approach? You already know God will take care of your physical needs. But are you preparing yourself spiritually?”
If this sounds unusual to you, consider what Jesus had to say about preparing for the last days. He also left us very little advice about physical preparations for end-time upheaval. Like Peter, Jesus warned of tumultuous times to come: wars, rumors of wars, ethnic and tribal conflicts, famines, earthquakes, persecution, floods of iniquity that would cause the love of many to grow cold. He also predicted that armies would march on Jerusalem to wreak awful destruction, razing the temple to the ground.
In the face of this terrible upheaval, Jesus says little about how to survive the times. He doesn’t speak about how to prepare for the loss of a home or job or the crashing of the economy. Rather, he instructs us, “Take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things” (Matthew 6:31–32).
Peter echoes Jesus’ words when he says, “The end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer” (1 Peter 4:7). In short, he says, “Here is basic instruction for preparing for the end times: Be sober-minded. And stay calm, no matter what happens. There is no need to panic. Instead, take it all to prayer.”
Right now, many Christians are in panic mode. People who have testified all their lives that God is their keeper are now scrambling in fear as the storm clouds gather. Peter is saying to them, very simply, “Bring all your natural feelings under the control of faith.”
-----------------------------------
Go click on the link above to read the whole thing.
How can a true leader stand up and tell his followers they need to get with the program and give more because funds are low while at the same time be raking in a $500,000 package and laying his faithful subordinates off here at the end of the year?
I would feel sorry for the people being laid off but Steve is actually doing them a big favor by pushing them on out the door.
Words cannot accurately describe the audacity to hire your son and your daughter's husband while firing faithful workers that have been at Bellevue longer than Steve Gaines himself.
Bellevue is leaderless at this time and the masses of people either don't see it or won't see it.
It reminds me of our recent presidential election. I read where the Jewish people of America voted for Obama over 3 to 1.
The days of Bellevue will continue to grow darker as long as their leaders are allowed to operate with such arrogance.
"I would feel sorry for the people being laid off but Steve is actually doing them a big favor by pushing them on out the door."
So true. And that's often the case when someone is laid off from a job, not just at Bellevue. Sometimes the handwriting on the wall is just so clear!
Good Post Tn lizzie2000!
I would also encourage a read of Isaiah 54. What does a true christian have to fear?
See also Daniel 7
Dan 7:2 Daniel said, I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of the heavens [political and social agitations] were stirring up the great sea [the nations of the world].
The saints come out on top every time.
"I would feel sorry for the people being laid off but Steve is actually doing them a big favor by pushing them on out the door."
True but how sad they are hearing the loss of their job just days before being ushered out the door and so close to the holidays.
This sounds like the world's tactics.
"True but how sad they are hearing the loss of their job just days before being ushered out the door and so close to the holidays.
This sounds like the world's tactics."
The administration does nothing by faith, prayer,spiritual wisdom or biblical standards. I even called the pastor's office early on in 2005 about a decision Steve had made and of course I never got to talk to him, but rather a secretary. When I asked her to relay my question, she hung up on me. I had asked if he had prayed over a particular decision. I think not since it was purely a secular decision he had made.
But then, when it's "all about the money" - what else could happen?
"But then, when it's "all about the money" - what else could happen?"
But how about Bellevue borrowing money?
Steve Gaines says Bellevue is NOT a Business
Seems the bulk of their reserve money (now down to about $10 Million) are in cd's. They are earning about 6% with the maturity dates out there somewhere.
David Coombs is then borrowing at a lower rate to hold them over till the cd's mature.
Great plan as he continues to cut the budget.
David Coombs runs it like a Business
With the economic meltdown, one can only wonder how long this will work?
What equity will he be giving as collateral for these loans?
Wonder what insider's bank he's playing this Russian Roulette game with?
Wonder when the Gaines family will participate in David Coombs budget cutbacks?
Or, maybe even layoffs?
"I would feel sorry for the people being laid off but Steve is actually doing them a big favor by pushing them on out the door."
The few that are still giving, are giving more, WOW
Anyone seen Bellevues 2nd quarter report ending September 30th?
David Coombs, hard at work?
$900,000 in 2007 to renovated children's buildings.
$700,000 in 2007 to purchase Highland Ave church for Iglesia Bella Vista ministry.
$627,000 in 2007 media advertising expenses, to attract new members.
$500,000+ in 2008 for the College Ministry on Poplar - VUE
$100,000+ in 2009 for operating expenses for the College Ministry on Poplar - VUE
$400,000 in 2008 for purchase of the Dental Clinic mobile
$150,000 in 2009 for operating expenses of the Dental Clinic mobile
$500,000 ?? in 2008 for the Bellevue Fall Family Festival
All this spending to bring GOD to Bellevue Baptist Church?
So that's what Steve Gaines calls Revival?
What other undisclosed spending is there?
A place where decisions are made by insiders on committees, spending monies as they will, without member input or oversight.
Been Redeemed said...
I even called the pastor's office early on in 2005 about a decision Steve had made and of course I never got to talk to him, but rather a secretary. When I asked her to relay my question, she hung up on me.
I wonder if that secretary was repaid for her loyalty to SG by getting to keep her job when others are being laid off. Ya think?
"I wonder if that secretary was repaid for her loyalty to SG by getting to keep her job when others are being laid off. Ya think?"
Well certainly Junk. The secretary is probably someday going to be Grant's...
I really don't know what to say. These people are totally without compassion or a sense of decency. The frustration is that we were taught differently and the people who are leaders at Bellevue now were taught not to do the very things they are supporting now.
They lay off people instead of eliminate advertising. The church should not be advertising in the first place! Who wants to go to a church that has to advertise for members? Advertising will only serve to attract members from other churches; it will not reach the lost. Advertising is only used when you do not have a testimony!
And then to hear Steve Gaines say, “If I were the devil, I would….. He is doing the very things he says the devil would do! When Steve accuses he needs to understand that for every finger you point out to accuse someone else there are three pointing back at the accuser.
How can they say, “Bellevue loves Memphis,” when you are so heartless and insensitive?
Everything they are doing in the name of ministry is done for show. Consider, what business does a church have running a mobile dental clinic? Why not just pay peoples’ dental bills? Reason, it makes a bigger show having a bus running around town.
The Fall Carnival speaks for itself.
Why have a separate place for students called the Vue? Why not use the money to support the Baptist student union? Again, Bellevue has to make a show.
What will come next, an amusement park with Bible themed thrill rides?
Sunday night James Collier was bewildered after he heard laughter from one of his comments. The comment, “this is your church and you have the authority, I’m just the pastor.”
"What will come next, an amusement park with Bible themed thrill rides?"
Uh... I think that's been done elsewhere already.
Here and here. Kinda hard to tell the real one from the fake, huh?
Sunday night James Collier was bewildered after he heard laughter from one of his comments. The comment, “this is your church and you have the authority, I’m just the pastor.”
That is funny! At Bellevue it's more like, "This is my church and you have no authority; I'm the senior pastor."
a Pastor is an elder is a bishop".... Steve said something really close to that when he was "hinting" at the way he shut down the mic at the monkey business meeting.
Well, that's why he's BOB. And that's why you are not. Now bow down and worship.
Interesting that Steve uses the term social gospel. A previous pastor, who shall remain nameless lest I be accused of pastor worship again, taught that there was no such thing. The social gospel is a copout used by those who lacking a testimony or a true relationship with Jesus must resort to using good works to demonstrate their faith. Indeed, amillennialist and post millennialist use the social gospel as a way to bring in the kingdom. That is we will all become better and better people through our good works until we reach a point that Christ’s kingdom will take over the earth. Replies? Anyone?
”Sol,
You apparently cannot read. I did not ever say people who remained at BBC for whatever reason are serving Satan. I did probably say Satan has taken over…”
“The administration does nothing by faith, prayer,spiritual wisdom or biblical standards…”
“These people are totally without compassion or a sense of decency. The frustration is that we were taught differently…”
Satan is in control, the administration has forsaken God, and they are lacking in common decency. However, those who’ve left are far above such evil and above reproach. Is that a decent summary of the discussion thus far?
Sounds reasonable to me.
Does anyone here seriously desire any form of reconciliation with Bellevue? If so, then accept that we are not demons, we worship the same God as you do, and we are NOT evil.
“The social gospel is a copout used by those who lacking a testimony or a true relationship with Jesus must resort to using good works to demonstrate their faith. Indeed, amillennialist and post millennialist use the social gospel as a way to bring in the kingdom. That is we will all become better and better people through our good works until we reach a point that Christ’s kingdom will take over the earth. Replies? Anyone?”
If you’d care to really listen to what Steve says from the pulpit instead of hyping your own deliberately twisted interpretations, his hope is to use the good deeds among the unsaved as an entry point to share the gospel. Steve is strictly premil, and attributing postmil philosophies to him so that you can belittle his efforts is tantamount to lying. Actually, it IS lying, wishihadknown. But hey, whatever floats your boat. The truth hasn't stopped anyone so far...
Karen, we're still praying for your mother's health. And gmom, your daughter's as well. Some things are bigger than our worldly squabbles, and prayer for one another is one of them.
The person using the alias, "wishihadknown" said:
"Why have a separate place for students called the Vue? Why not use the money to support the Baptist student union? Again, Bellevue has to make a show."
I love the BCM, i go there often. it's a great ministry full of awesome people. But i'm very excited about what God is doing with the Vue. Believe it or not, many lost college students won't ever set foot in a church. But if i ask a guy to come play ping pong or a game of pool with me at the Vue, he's more agreeable to that. And when he's there he will hear the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in love, in the attention and caring of the Body of Christ. You may call that wrong, compromising, un-needed, or a show, but i call it a man who was once dead, leading a dead man, to the only One who can truly give him life, even if it's over a game of pool. Why should it matter if its at the BCM or the Vue, i think its awesome that students now have two places from which they can reach their campuses for Christ.
If you would like to see and hear more about what the Lord is doing at the Vue and with the college ministry, i'd be happy to show you around. We're having an open house on Nov. 23rd from 3:30 to 5:30pm. Come on by. It's at Poplar and Highland, next to Cc's. My name's Aaron King, and i'd be happy to give you a tour and tell you more of what the Lord's doing.
Free Indeed, Aaron
Sol,
Thank you for thinking of my daughter. She is back to normal now!
Sol, I've said before...I don't see the people still attending BBC as evil. I have many friends still there. And of course, we worship only one God!!
I'm not looking for any kind of reconciliation personally with the church named BBC.
Doesn't mean I'm not going to be friends with people there. Doesn't mean I think demons are there!! That's silly!!
There is still venting and reporting of events on the blog but more than anything it's a way for some of us to hang on to each other as we have all gone in different directions. Please try and not take everything so personally.
You are where you choose to be. I'm sure you have many friends there and that's great that you support the direction SG is taking the church.
I wish you and your family the very best!!!!
FINALLY, THERE'S A NEW THREAD!
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