If this doesn't infuriate you, I don't know what will. Read one staff minister's account of the state of things at Bellevue today.
Here's an excerpt:
"I am one on staff who does not agree with the current direction of our beloved church home. I want everyone to know that there are a small group of us on staff, ministers and staffers alike, that are working to get a heart to heart meeting with Dr. Gaines to have our say about how we feel concerning the recent issues concerning Bellevue Baptist Church. We are encouraged that this may be happening in the near future.
"However, we have recently been informed that we are not allowed to have any meetings with Dr. Gaines alone. We have been informed that Mr. David Coombs must be involved in any meetings concerning the direction and future of Bellevue Baptist Church. Most of us do understand this from a managerial standpoint, as Mr. Coombs is Administrative Pastor. It is still somewhat of a strange consideration as we reflect on our past experiences with Dr. Rogers and his ministry."
Remember to sign the Petition to Call Bellevue Baptist Church into an Open Business Meeting and forward the link to your fellow Bellevue members.
646 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 646 Newer› Newest»I also worked with PW, talked almost daily, and while I did not know of his secret sin, I now look back and see that same covering of sin in our pastor, a secret sin that he covers well. Something is not right with him spiritually, and I believe many on staff know it. Several of us former and current staffers are praying daily for someone to expose him. If any of you know anything, pray about coming forward with it. Bring it out here on this blog and remain annonymous if you must, but be prepared to stand and you will be surprised how many of us will be standing beside you.
People are praying and God is working. In His way and His time, all will be revealed, as it has been in others. Sin does not remain hidden forever.
Churchmouse said...
"With all due respect, 32+, I believe too many people have left quietly. If more people let their feelings be known, and took the consequences of their stand, eyes might be opened and others influenced. I really believe silence has been a large contributing factor to the demise of our beloved church. Too many people have left quietly without fighting to defend BBC. Read John 2: 13-17."
Churchmouse: I wholeheartedly agree with you! You are exactly right! Is it too late at this point? This former staffmember...I wonder if he would come forward at this point and the others with him...if that might make a difference. It is almost like we were as children, "You go first." "No, you go first." "No, you go first." Etc. The end result is that every one just stands there and there is no end result because everybody is waiting for somebody else to make the first move! There has been a hand full make a move...but it is going to take more than a handfull. In the meantime, this church is sinking. So, does everybody just watch it sink and think, "I surely wish somebody would do something?" Bold is the word here. Bold.
Ima,
Glad to see you! Missed you, sister! I am sick and tired of people saying "I wish somebody would do something". If they thought about it, maybe that "somebody" is them. I posted about a week ago the story of Somebody, Anybody, Everybody and Nobody - it wasn't very effective.
As far as the "secret sin" of Steve Gaines, many people (myself included) have felt he is covering a secret sin. We are just now revealing our feelings to each other (could that be the Holy Spirit, watchman?) and I hope and pray the person who has the first hand knowledge of this sin will be given the boldness to speak out. I will be one to stand behind and with you as you do this, but it's got to come out. Please if you know, it's time to spill it.
karen
Questions:
1. How are we suppose to know if all the people who signed the petition are actually for the meeting? Several of us have observed statements opposing have been removed while their name continues to be counted.
2. Where does it say in the Bible that we should not submit to our leadership?
Ima, I wonder if it is too late. So many have gone on to better pastures.
I am going to call some names. If people like Bob Sorrel, Craig Parker, Rob Mullins, the Rogers family, Laurie and Fig Newton, the Whitmire family, and others had come forward wtih their experiences, people would have believed them. These people were loved and respected. People would have believed them. They have first hand testimony. Their silence has caused others to question the integrity of the information they are hearing.
Churchmouse said...
With all due respect, 32+, I believe too many people have left quietly. If more people let their feelings be known, and took the consequences of their stand, eyes might be opened and others influenced. I really believe silence has been a large contributing factor to the demise of our beloved church. Too many people have left quietly without fighting to defend BBC. Read John 2: 13-17.
REPLY: I have made my voice heard in numerous ways to no avail. I have prayed much. It will take divine intervention to restore Bellevue, and repentance on the part of many. We know that with God
all things are possible. However, in the meantime my family is weary of the battle and are suffering emotionally and spiritually. It has been a very long two years.
REPLY TO nathanb: Please do not be so harsh with the Search Committe. I'm sure some on there wish they never had been. I know one member personally and you have no idea the personal sacrifice of time and energy it took on the behalf of each of those members. Between travels on the weekend, there were long hrs. of meetings week nights at the church. They prayed and fasted seeking God's guidance and will for their monumental task. Even Dr. Rogers believed SG was the one to follow him. I cannot explain what went wrong. I do not know why SG was given such free reign and not held accountable. Maybe it was because we had 32 years of a man of integrity who never broke trust and everyone was just caught off guard. None had been tested like this before. And now they have failed the test.
SeekingHisWill said...
Questions:
1. How are we suppose to know if all the people who signed the petition are actually for the meeting? Several of us have observed statements opposing have been removed while their name continues to be counted.
2. Where does it say in the Bible that we should not submit to our leadership?
In my opinion,
1. If someone signs a petition that they don't agree with just to post a comment about how horrible the petition is, I think it's their own dumb luck if their vote gets counted. I don't vote for Democrats just to prove a point and I don't sign petitions that I don't agree with.
2. Where in the Bible does it say that leadership is be followed blindly? Where in the Bible does it allow leadership to climb fences then lie about the height of said fence? Where in the Bible does it say Matthew 18 doesn't apply to certain people? Where in the Bible does it say the standards for ministers are just "guidelines"? Where does it say in the Bible that we are to donate money to an apostate church just because you want to? Where in the Bible does it say it okay to keep a sexual predator on church staff even though the sin "is under the blood"?
Just wondering....
karen
I lurk often, but rarely post. I must disagree w/ what Churchmouse just said. I think many people have had conversations and made stands that some of us will never know about. Just because stands aren't taken in a very public way does not mean that stands have not been taken.
I know for certain that there are those who have heard the truth from some that Churchmouse mentioned and yet, they still don't believe. I also know that if a person would go to those mentioned, desiring to know the truth, that they would tell the truth.
I know of many, many others who have willfully chosen NOT to ask questions b/c they knew if they did they would have to make decisions when they heard the answers.
I also know that there has been enough done publicly--the fence climbing, Union City, the handling of the PW confession, the donations to FUMC, and most recently the business meeting, that people who are supposedly "in the know" do not need to shout from the mountain tops to get the word out--the evidence is becoming "self-evident."
People do not want to face the truth b/c it means that they most likely will have to leave the comfort of their beloved church home to find another one.
Our church has been hijacked. I believe it was calculated and deliberate. Apart from a great work of the Lord, I don't think it will ever be restored. However, I do know that there are people working behind the scenes to try and make a difference.
I believe all of those who have either left or are in the process of leaving have gone through the same stages of eomotions. First, there is a disbelief that something like this would EVER happen at BBC. Secondly, you tell yourself, "I don't care what happens, I'm going to stay and fight for my church." Thirdly, you realize that these men who have hijacked our church were very smart and knew what they are doing--it is nearly impossible to put a chink in their armour. Fourthly, you are crushed and realize that you cannot sit or serve under the current leadership.
Our family made stands and had conversations on many levels--we realized that it was doing no good and that apart from a miracle nothing would change. We also realized that we could not continue to make ourselves attend church and that it was not healthy for us our for our children to continue on in the present circumstances.
God has blessed us and we have found a place of fellowship where we are fed, loved, and used. It has been a very long, difficult road, but God has taught us much.
It is only a "better pasture" b/c we know that we were in the will of God. However, nothing can or will ever take the place of the 32 precious years I spent at BBC, learning, serving, growing and praising my Heavenly Father.
Making the decision to leave was one of the HARDEST decisions I have ever had to make in my entire life.
I'm sorry for the length of this post; however, I felt I needed to address the issue that we will never know this side of heaven of some of the conversations and stands that have been taken--the fact of the matter is that the leadership does not care about the sheep and has no intention of doing anything about the present circumstances.
bonds said:
After reading this Blog for a short time and my wife telling me I need to stay away from the gossip.
SOTL says:
Bonds, would you please enlighten me and tell me ONE piece of GOSSIP you have heard on this blog?
Are these things gossip?
Breaking the law: fence climbing in a no trespassing area, failure to report a pedophile, failure to turn over documents required by non-profit law, improper tax-free charges made to BBC credit card accounts
Scaling fences and tresspasses on private property, hands out God's money to apostate churches to promote abortions and homosexuality, goes to other churches and trashes his own sheep, winks at the sodomizing of a child by his minister father, pretends that a 15 y/o girl was not cussed out and handcuffed in HIS church.
So tell me Bonds, in your infinite wisdom, where you know so much better than we do, just what in the above IS gossip? And your wife, how does she know it's gossip or not, if she has never read the blog?
So many of " you people" think that it's gossip, EVEN AFTER the pastor has stood behind the pulpit and ADMITTED to it.
WHERE IS YOUR LINE IN THE SAND?
IF YOU WILL SUPPORT A PASTOR WHO SUPPORTS A PEDAPHILE, YOU WILL SUPPORT ANYTHING!!!!!
STAND UP AND BE A MAN AND STOP FOLLOWING ANOTHER MAN WITH YOUR BRAIN IN YOUR POCKET.
32yrs,
I understand all the sacrifice of the search committee. I know some of them personally too and I've discussed the difficulities with one in particular. Knowing what they know now, isn't it time for them to step up and say SOMETHING? To be quiet about the way Steve Gaines is running things is condoning his actions. I can forgive - they're human - they made a mistake. We can still undo this before BBC goes down in flames due to bad leadership. If God can be sorry He appointed Saul as king, can't we be sorry as well and undo what we've done?
1 Samuel 15:34 Then Samuel left for Ramah, but Saul went up to his home in Gibeah of Saul. 35 Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again, though Samuel mourned for him. And the LORD was grieved that he had made Saul king over Israel.
If one more person ( who is not in leadership) tells me that they are going to " stay and fight for their church" I am going to ask them to help me out...to tell me just exacty what they think they are doing as they trot to church each week to hear an apostate preacher preach a watered down, self serving sermon.
Just sitting in church taking up a seat to expand the attendance rolls is NOT " fighting for your church"
And if the deacons are not even allowed to SPEAK in a deacons meeting, just what do these people think they are doing to " fight for their church"?
It's laughable. Maybe they would like to inform the thousands that have already left just what exactly it is that THEY are doing that no one else thought to do.
standing,
For someone who doesn't post much, you sure to make it count when you do post! AMEN! I know of a few good men at BBC who are working together at this time and I praise God for their efforts. Those who are working behind the scenes, good for you!
Karen
seekinhiswill said:
2. Where does it say in the Bible that we should not submit to our leadership?
Where in the Bible does it say that we should follow ONE man blindly?
Especially when that man is a lawbreaker?
When that man cares NOTHING about the safety of the children at BBC by harboring a sexual predator???
When people get into thinking that they are to submit to the authority over them," NO MATTER WHAT" you start getting into cult like behavior.
Go and read about Jim Jones and his " Jonestown"..you will learn a lot about people who were under the belief that they were to follow their leader unconditionally. Too bad none of them are alive to tell about it.
When Jim Jones told them that it was time for them all to die, they stood in line to take the potient that would kill them.
NO questions ask. They were obeying the authority over them.
Is THIS the kind of obedience you desire for yourself?
If not, then you AGREE that there is a line in the sand that you would not cross in following the leader.
You have to ask yourself where is YOUR line?
Is tresspassing not enough?
Is giving safe harbor to a man who sodomized his son not enough for you?
Is the handcuffing of the 15 y/o girl not enough for you?
Just where is YOUR linein the sand?
standing,
I respect your feelings.
We can't change hearts and minds. I don't believe we are called to do that. I believe that is the work of the Holy Spirit. I do believe we are obligated to give people the truth.
Maybe my post was a bit cruel, because I was looking backward to what might have been. I do believe if the people I mentioned had spoken publicly, they would have been believed by the congregation of BBC.
There have been many hours of grief in our home, when we have wondered why our former staff would not stand with us.
SOTL,
I would never, never accuse you of slipping out quietly to another church. =)
Karen,
I am glad you brought up King Saul. I have heard repeated in ignorance that we are not to touch God's "annointed".
This reference was made in II Samuel 24:6 and in 26:8 as well. In context, it is talking about taking the life of the king, not giving him a carte blanche to sin and the spoils of a church.
In Samuel, David talks about not physically killing the king, but he goes on to acknowledge that God will at some point and time. David DID take action by taking King Saul's spear and water away from him while he slept, just to show him that he was so close that he COULD have killed him, but did not. He actually striped him of his protection (spear) and his physical need(water). He did not stand idly by and give the king free rein without intervention. By this action, David prompted King Saul to repent and to admit he had sinned. Read the entire story in II Samuel 26.
The "don't touch God's annointed" does not fly in the face of Scripture and has no relevance here. No one is threatening the pastor, we are taking his spear and water to bring him to repentance so that God can deal with him.
churchmouse said:
SOTL,
I would never, never accuse you of slipping out quietly to another church. =)
sotl says:
THANK YOU. ( LOL )
Well said, been redeemed.
churchmouse,
I do understand your feelings, and I would not be honest if I did not tell you that I have prayed that some who knew the truth would come forward. I will never fully understand all that has happened. I cannot even begin to fathom how all of this junk has transpired at my beloved BBC--I guess I was just trying to say that I do believe some have stood and that we will never fully know the prayer that went into some of these decisions. I do believe that each of us should pray concerning our own "sphere of influence" and should be willing to speak the truth in love. God will tell you when you have done all you can and when you need to move one.
I might add that when we left, we let those in leadership know why. I would pray that others who leave would do the same--that way you have at least put you name to your feelings.
Karen,
Thanks for your encouragement!
Let's stay on our knees!
Standing
churchmouse said:
“Their silence has caused others to question the integrity of the information they are hearing.”
Churchmouse,
You have no idea how many of the leaders and deacons know the truth about how my parents were treated. There are leaders that know first hand on went on and there are deacons that have spent hours with my parents on finding out
The Truth. My parents handled this with the utmost integrity. They were asked to tell what happened many times. These deacons and leaders, who know the truth about what happened, know who they are. They are now held accountable for knowing the TRUTH. What they do with it is up to them.
Some stayed silent and still stay silent. (They are cowards) Some have stood
up and voiced their concerns. For those who stood up for what was right, the
family thanks you. Steve Gaines has apologized to my father.
I will not speak for the other names that you have mentioned. I can only speak for my parents for which my family will always defend. It should not be up to my parents to tell on what happened when so many saw it first hand and did nothing. These were people that work at Bellevue and grew up with our family and worked with my father. We have heard of people saying my parents are just being babies or that they were jealous. I say to those people, you never really new my parents because you would have not believed those rumors or started them. That is so far from the truth. It is sad to see what has happened and it is sad for our family. My parents have moved on and still pray for Bellevue everyday. Again, my parents should not have to defend themselves or come forward when so many so called friends or ministers of Jesus should have. The Whitmire children will always defend our parents!!
Joshua David Whitmire
SeekingHisWill said...
2. Where does it say in the Bible that we should not submit to our leadership?
See Acts 4:19
Joshua, I respect your feelings. Your father was really put on the spot.
We have always loved your father and will continue to love and respect him in the future. His departure was the first clue that told us something bad was going on at Bellevue.
The love and respect for your father at BBC would have helped us. No, he should not have had to come forward, but it would have helped BBC if he had. We have long needed someone in a leadership position to speak out for us. We needed someone that the congregation trusted.
You said your father had spoken to leaders and deacons. There is the problem. So much of the lack of integrity has come from this area. The people haven't known who to believe. They were told there were a small group of trouble makers who didn't like the music. If your father had spoken to the congregation in a public way, they would have listened.
The same goes for the Rogers family. They were dealing with personal grief and fear of tarnishing what Dr. Rogers left behind. Last year people were constantly asking each other, "Where is the Rogers family? Where do they stand?"
If Bob Sorrel had told of his experience, people would have listened.
If all of these people had spoken publicly--what could be done?
1. We can't have an open business meeting--it might get ugly (this is what the administration has said)
2. The Communications Committee Meetings were a sham
3. The leadership has no intention of changing direction
So...if all 30,0000 members (I use this term loosely) of BBC had heard people speak of these things and believed them--what would/could we do?
We cannot vote, except with our feet.
We cannot speak, unless we withhold our tithes and offerings.
We voted in a man to be our pastor in good faith upon the recomendation of our pulpit comittee. They knew before he ever came what his plans were, and they didn't tell us. We were hijacked.
Karen said...
32yrs,
I understand all the sacrifice of the search committee. I know some of them personally too and I've discussed the difficulities with one in particular. Knowing what they know now, isn't it time for them to step up and say SOMETHING? To be quiet about the way Steve Gaines is running things is condoning his actions. I can forgive - they're human - they made a mistake. We can still undo this before BBC goes down in flames due to bad leadership. If God can be sorry He appointed Saul as king, can't we be sorry as well and undo what we've done?
REPLY: Karen, interesting you mentioned Saul. My husband has wondered (if it is true that SG was approached 3 times before he agreed to come, maybe God was trying to shut that door and "we" kept pushing against it. Finally, God gave us our "Saul" instead of the "David" He intended for us. Just a thought.:-(
I do not understand why no one in leadership is saying "enough is enough" unless they truly believe SG is God's annointed and appointed. In the meantime the bleeding continues.
32 years said...
"I do not understand why no one in leadership is saying "enough is enough" unless they truly believe SG is God's annointed and appointed."
Money, Position and Power - anything else is pure ignorance of scripture.
We voted in a man to be our pastor in good faith upon the recomendation of our pulpit comittee. They knew before he ever came what his plans were, and they didn't tell us. We were hijacked.
1:22 PM, May 02, 2007
STANDING: I must refute this statement re: the Search Committee.
In order for this site to have validity, we must be careful with our accusations, they must be factual. Hear me...not one person on that Search Committe had any agenda nor did they have a clue what would transpire once SG came.
Nor did Dr. Rogers who was convinced in his own heart that SG was the man to follow him. They all were blind-sided and that is a fact.
Standing,
Yes, we were hijacked.
Yet,SG and the church administration have known all along what their "numbers" were. If the tide had turned against them, they would have noticed. They are thriving on the civility of the former staff. We have had a website publishing letters from concerned members since August of 2006. We have had this blog and others. We need the Truth.
Friends,
I am distressed at the difficulties you are enduring at Bellevue. I loved Dr. Rogers, and had the privilege of meeting him several times over the course of my life.
How blessed Bellevue was to have him those 32 years. I often wonder where the great men of God have gone. Where are the Ron Dunn’s, Adrian Roger’s, and Manley Beasley’s of today?
I was never in the presence of Dr. Rogers more than ten seconds and you could feel the presence of the Lord….alas that has given way to CEO’s who hire henchman…and are not readily accountable or accessible to the saints of the rank and file.
Your Deacons were appointed to be men of integrity to stand in the gap….and ensure that whoever stands behind the Holy desk (Pulpit) is a man of integrity and humility.
They are sadly missing in action. The Bellevue debacle, serves as a warning to Churches around the country to seek a man of God…or you will reap a whirlwind!
Does anyone honestly believe that if someone like Ken Whitten, had been called to be your Pastor, that there would be blogs….much less broken hearted saints who are feeling the crush and aftermath of this ongoing saga?
God is Sovereign and I am praying for you….and believing that a Glorious Son rise…is in your future!
32 years,
I am curious to know how you know that is fact regarding the search committee. I know that Harry Smith and Steve Gaines go way, way back and Harry knew exactly how Steve operated in times past. I also know that the Caldwells were eager to have their daughter and son-in-law home and jumped at the chance to speed that process along. I also know that Jamie Parker's parents were shopping for Jamie's new home before Steve ever accepted the job, who knows how much influence they had in the selection process. I am just curious how one can be so matter-of-fact certain that no one on the search committee had another motive? I am not doubting your words, I just don't understand.
32,
The search committee did what they did and they traveled and spent a lot of time meeting, etc.
I'm sorry if I came across harsh. What I'm trying to say is no matter how much time or effort they spent, today is a new day. Perhaps their work is not over. They brought him here and they can help remove him if they beleive they made a mistake. If they don't beleive Steve should go, then I'm going to sound harsh against them.
With all my heart, I beleive Steve Gaines is not a pastor. He may be a preacher, but he's not a pastor. He has no love for his sheep. If he wants to preach, perhaps he was called to be an evangelist.
I still say anyone on the search committee has a responsiblilty today to do the right thing. Their silence is disturbing.
We were told on more than one occasion that "things are going to be different at BBC when our new pastor gets here." We were also told that BBC was in decline and things needed to be changed--from a pulpit committee member.
I believe from watching the DVD of Steve Gaines' resignation from Gardendale that the pulpit committee did in fact know that Bro. Steve had a list of things that he thought was right about Gardendale. He also told them about things he did not like about BBC that he was going to change.
I will clarify and say that of course, the pulpit committee nor Dr. Rogers would have had no idea about the fence climbing, the words he would speak at Union City or how he would handle a situation like PW.
However, they did know that there were quite a few things that he felt needed to be "changed" at BBC and surely they would have had some conversations towards that end.
32 said...
REPLY: Karen, interesting you mentioned Saul. My husband has wondered (if it is true that SG was approached 3 times before he agreed to come, maybe God was trying to shut that door and "we" kept pushing against it. Finally, God gave us our "Saul" instead of the "David" He intended for us. Just a thought.:-(
Yes, he even said to Gardendale that there was no way the Search Committee was going to pick him after his "hardballing" or whatever term he used.
I do have to disagree with you just a little on the Search Committee agenda: John and Pat Caldwell's daughter and son in law both were working for Steve in Gardendale and now work for Steve in Memphis (Dayna may not still work for Hope for your Futute, but Bill is on BBC staff). To have them here in Memphis again sure is a plum for the Caldwells. Not too bad of an agenda, but if Dayna and Bill weren't on Mrs. Caldwell's mind when the deal was struck, I would be very surprised.
We got EXACTLY what we asked God for - to our detriment. Be careful what you ask for or don't ask for, God really may give it to you.
karen
mom4,
I stand corrected. You are right. I do not know the hearts of all on the Search Committee - only the heart of the one whom I know personally. I'm afraid I picked up the offense of the one whom I know.
I do so value that person's integrity and spiritual maturity and total commitment to Bellevue.
There were many red flags in the beginning that were obviously ignored. Why I do not know.
I confess that I do not have the answers but I know the One Who does. He is sovereign and He rules and overrules in the affairs of men. In the end, His will WILL be done. I'm confident of that.
In the meantime, I find that I am much better at lurking than posting.:-)
This thread contains some of the best and saddest posts on this blog in a while.
churchmouse said...
The same goes for the Rogers family. They were dealing with personal grief and fear of tarnishing what Dr. Rogers left behind. Last year people were constantly asking each other, "Where is the Rogers family? Where do they stand?"
The fact that Mrs. Rogers will soon no longer teach her class and has been attending Germantown Baptist speaks volumes. Does she really need to say anymore? Think about it this way: If her husband thought Steve Gaines was God's man for the job and she moves her membership, what does that say?
karen
32,
Please do not feel that you must refrain from posting because you think you are not "good at it"! None of us are. We are a wounded, hurting and sometimes angry group that are deep in prayer for our church home. Many of us fast on a regular basis. Your input is greatly appreciated and anyone with 32 years at Bellevue in their past is bound to hold a vast wealth of knowledge and spiritual growth that would make any one of us take notice. It would behoove all of us to listen to what you have to say. Thanks for your posts!
Karen wrote:
"We got EXACTLY what we asked God for - to our detriment. Be careful what you ask for or don't ask for, God really may give it to you."
And someone, I believe it was Dee, said PW led the weekly prayer groups for members who wanted to meet to pray for the search committee. Ironic, huh?
32,
Don't you dare quit posting - you've given a fresh perspective to this blog today and hope people will read with fresh eyes.
karen
Me and Mom4 telling 32:
"Red Rover, Red Rover, let 32 come over!"
Yeah, too much caffeine for Karen today! :-D
karen
Has anyone but me seen this??
sheeplessatbbc said...
Has anyone gotten their May/June Bellevue Messenger yet? I don't think I've received mine, but was looking on Bellevue.org, clicked on the messenger to scan thru it.
The letter from our pastor is not King Steve...it's football jock Steve, dressed in football uniform and big hair. Running the race, another self-serving message.
What is this all about??
sheepless,
Go to bellevue.org and click on the Messenger link. It's the May/June issue they're referring to. Steve's pastor's blub has a picture of him in his football uniform.
They also interview, Steve Marcum, Scotty Shows and Jon Tyner. Not sure what they are referring to about Jaime - didn't see anything about Jaime in that issue.
karen
sheepless,
I saw that post and took a gander. I found it remarkable that he chose the "finish the race" as his mantra. That is the kickoff theme for Dr Rogers' birthday celebration last year. I also found it interesting that BBC is now bringing in the "Women of Faith" series. While some of what they are espousing is worthwhile, there is a lot that is not, specifically the charasmatic leanings that Dr Rogers preached against. The emphasis they make on the teachings of those such as Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, et al to mention a few.
There were opportunities to have them during his tenure and he decided that the doctrines and theology were too liberal. Don't you wonder why we never had them before (they have been around a long time)?
And by the way, I LOVE to watch Joyce Meyer. She is hilarous and fun, filled with practical wisdom. But is she doctrinally sound? I have not seen it.
No. Not sound...name it and claim it.
Isn't Robin McGraw, wife of Dr. Phil, a part of Women of Faith?
He is VERY PC when it comes to homosexuality and other sexual sins....
Women of Faith ---
Ecumenical , Universal , One world religion propoganda.
WOMEN OF FAITH
Bryson McQuiston resigned today - confirmed.
Ahhh...The word Universal.....BIG RED FLAG.......
piglet said...
"He is VERY PC when it comes to homosexuality and other sexual sins...."
So is our pastor.
nathanb said:
With all my heart, I beleive Steve Gaines is not a pastor. He may be a preacher, but he's not a pastor. He has no love for his sheep. If he wants to preach, perhaps he was called to be an evangelist
sotl says:
Well, Personally, in my most unhumble opinion :) i think that SG should go on TV alongside Benny Hinn and beg for money and HEEEEEEAAAAAAAAALLLL people.
He could start his own little amusement park like Jimmy and Tammy Faye...just think, Tammy Faye could give Donna some make up lessons, maybe even sell her some of her leftover eyelashes and masacara.
They could build a fancy doghouse for their dog ( assuming they have one) like Jim and Tammy FAye did for their dog, and life would be grand.
Guess I am asking for a lot of ridicule again, but doesn't matter. Rusty Leonard of Ministry Watch offers good assessments for you. Right Here
Just type in name in question, such as Joyce Meyer in the search window in the top left portion of the screen. I have found this man's work very credible.
Be sure to watch the video too. It was aired on 20/20 a short time ago.
Bryson McQuiston:
God will take care of you!! Lean on him!! It's going to be ok!!!
Joyce Meyers Shocking False Doctrines
JOYCE MEYER
Is Bryson one of the six that were talked about here a couple of days ago? Gee, not gossip anymore, huh?
Bryson, GOOD FOR YOU! Stand up and be counted. Don't sign the loyalty pledge thingy and come here and tell the truth about the DREAM!
karen
I want everyone in blog land to pray for Bryan McQuiston. He is taking a stand for Jesus. Pray that he will find another job ( if he doesn't already have one, i don't know)
Bryan, Jesus has NEVER let me down!! And he wont' let you down, either!!!
Speaking of homosexual sin, here's a sight that shows what they are teaching our children in public school about this sin. Notice the references to the Bible, and how it is " couched".
THIS is what we are dealing with here, folks..This is what is out there in the world that is moving into our churches.
Copy and paste to your browser:
http://www.massresistance.org/media/video/brainwashing.html
Let me try that link again:
http://www.massresistance.org/media/video/brainwashing.html
And let me say this:
Not ALL public schools are doing this. What I meant to say is that SOME are, and these are the attitudes that our children and
grandchildren will have to live with, even if our children are in private schools or homeschooled..
The attitude is out there, it's growing and it is being brought into the church.
URGENT APPEAL TO ACTION
HATE CRIMES BILL TO OUTLAW CHRISTIANITY
http://www.massresistance.org/media/video/brainwashing.html
Ok, guys, every time i try to post that url, it cuts it off...I"m going to send the site to NASS and maybe it can post later.
NASS
You have mail.
Our daughter graduated from one of the most respected public school in Memphis in the 1990s. Tests given to all students placed her in an advanced curriculum where she would get college credit. The instructor assigned a long drawn out project for the students; they were to set up a city called Utopia and design its laws and government. The instructor knew our daughter attended BBC. The instructor was not a Christian. She assigned our daughter to the morals committee. She has to write the morals for the city and include laws for abortion and homosexuality. When my daughter was forced to make a stand for her beliefs, students at the school who identified with the 'goths' and the 'gays' waited for her after school during this project, to taunt and threaten her. Our schools were 'lost' in the 1970s and 1980s and are not a safe place for our children and grandchildren.
Churchmouse: AMEN.
Churchmouse said, "She has to write the morals for the city and include laws for abortion and homosexuality. When my daughter was forced to make a stand for her beliefs, students at the school who identified with the 'goths' and the 'gays' waited for her after school during this project, to taunt and threaten her."
Reply: This is indeed a sad day Churchmouse. Your daughter identifies with all of us in that she took a stand for what was biblically correct and suffered ridicule for doing so. Paul Proctor's article that came out today would be an interesting read for you. I'll post it.
Southern Baptist Pastor says Jesus is the "founder of Liberalism" by Paul Proctor
Paul Proctor
offline...
Karen said...
Me and Mom4 telling 32:
"Red Rover, Red Rover, let 32 come over!"
Yeah, too much caffeine for Karen today! :-D
karen
Thank you Karen and mom4.:-)
BTW Karen, I know your mom and dad
and they are lovely people. I was glad to hear that they are happy at GBC and that your mom is in the choir and dad ushering again. God is good...ALL the time.
32,
If you want to reveal yourself (because I am intrigued now!) you can email me. I understand if you don't.
BTW, Bryson is NOT one of the six who are getting severance and he doesn't have a job when he quits. So really pray for him and his family. Byson, when it comes down to it, you are a class act and we love you for your stand. God Bless! Let us know what we can do to help you. :)
karen
SOTL's link.
Is Bryson the man whose wife sings with her brother
or the sweet,blonde lady that taught girls in the youth department?????
Does anyone have a list of all the ministers that have left since SG took over the helm from AR? It sure seems like all of them are jumping ship. Now even MD is gone and rumor from JP's dept. has it another one is ready to jump...or walk the plank depending on the viewpoint.
Makes one wonder how many good men are going to have to leave before the people at BBC wake up and smell the coffee.
gmommylv,
Bryson's wife is Linda and she's the sweet blonde lady that taught girls in the youth department.
Linda McQuiston (Bryson's wife) taught high school girls. Regina
McQuiston (she and husband Morris has left) used to sing with her brother Mark.
I will be praying for Linda and Bryson!
AOG said,
Makes one wonder how many good men are going to have to leave before the people at BBC wake up and smell the coffee.
Reply: Maybe all of them. And the women too.
I just looked up the tax records for McQuiston...his wife is Linda...so that answers my question.
Not the singer.
This is the sweet lady that "randomly" spent a whole day helping me paint.....we were never close friends...
she was just being the real deal....saw I needed encouragement and ministered to me.
I had been told by many at the time..."we are praying for you"
but Linda McQuiston put some human arms around those words.
I have carried that blessing from her around all this time....
Bellevue Baptist Church today just lost one of its remaining jewels. Bryson and Linda McQuiston are two of the most genuine people Bellevue has ever known.
We love you guys and your family. Our prayers are with you. God will provide.
Its really sad that Gaines is running Bellevue more like the Mormons than anything else.
Here are three things that is known about the Mormon Church in which Steve Gaines is doing at Bellevue:
1. Members are considered in good Standing if they tithe. Gaines paralells this by checking the tithing records of staff, deacons, and possible members.
The second thing is that Mormon leadership never reveals financial records and information to membership. If you recall, Josh Manning and several others requested this information as required by state law, yet Gaines and David Coombs refuses to comply. In fact Coombs said he doesn't care about state law.
And the third thing the mormons and Steve Gaines has in common is that questioning authority is severely frowned upon. In fact those who question authority get excommunicated. Gaines paralells this with displays like the monkey business meeting where the meeting was shut down before authoritiy was questioned by both Manning and the victim of PW. While no one's been excommunicated officially, many have been forced out because they question Gaines ability to lead and such.
Looking at those three examples, Gaines has turned Bellevue into a cult instead of a church.
I just opened my mail and read the letter from MD.......I am confused.
He quotes a part of 1 Sam.15:22...
Behold,to obey is better than sacrifice.....
and says he made a commitment to the Lord to obey Him regardless of the costs...
isn't it scary that he proclaims all this obedience to God and sings support for the pastor in the same letter?????
Doesn't a commitment to obey God include HIS WORD??????
my2cents wrote:
"Linda McQuiston (Bryson's wife) taught high school girls. Regina McQuiston (she and husband Morris has left) used to sing with her brother Mark."
"M" and "R" spell their last name "McCuistion."
In Steve Gaines new book "When God Comes to Church" on page 62 he says the following:
"The Prayer Meeting That Changed the World"
"It's not surprising, then that the early church was literally birthed in a prayer meeting."
He goes on to speak of the church today not giving enough emphasis on prayer but instead focusing on preaching.
Excuse me but doesn't he in reality himself emphasize preaching in his own ministry and less on prayer. Last time I checked, he told the search committee he wasn't going to preach on Wednesday nights and he took off traveling all over the country speaking for hire during the week at the expense of his flock.
If anyone is reading this and doesn't remember what he said about why he doesn't preach on Wednesday night, then this may be a good time to go to this sight and look.
I picked this off of the www.savingbellevue.com websight. If the link doesn't work, go to savingbellevue and click on "featured items" and then scroll down near the bottom and click on "why Steve Gaines doesn't preach on Wednesday nights"
http://www.savingbellevue.com/Sunday%
20Sept%2024th2006/92406wednesday.htm
This is another example of him saying one thing but doing another.
(the blog moderator may need to help me on this link business)
Hey Guys,
I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack.
About the link and it's applicability ( is that a word?) to BBC these days:
Steve Gaines has already lowered the bar as far as what we, as Christians, are willing to accept.
Now come the liberals, teaching the children of the USA that homosexuality is just another lifestyle and that abortion is ' 'just tissue' being removed from the body, it's not a baby.
Now that Steve Gaines has given money to support both homosexuality and abortion, where does that leave the arguement when our children are to go out into the world to fight this sort of thinking?
The church used to be the last refuge, but now, the flagship of the SBC is sinking, with Steve Gaines heading right towards to iceburg.
We have tried to teach our children that homosexuality and abortion are wrong. The world teaches them differently. Now Steve Gaines is winking at these sins.
Where do we go from here?
Please hit that link. You will be AMAZED at what 3rd graders are learning about homosexuality and how they are depicting those of us who hold to the standards that Jesus Christ has set out for us in his Holy Word.
nathanb,
Here.
Thank you very much.
The Joyce Meyers link provided by WH just comes back here. Try this one.
oh my goodness.....
could the integrity of this man be any more clear???
What a liar...on record....many times.
I am all for the secret sin of this man being exposed.....
it was always my opinion that ONLY a person with sexual sin of their own would cover for a man that abuses a child.
BUT would it matter to those still blind and deaf?
As an occasional lurker planted firmly in the "truthseekers" camp I haven't had anything to add to the discussions. Now, however, I am curious that given the outcry about the donation to FMC for having a female pastor (not discounting support of abortion and homosexuality) that there has been no condemnation of BBC for just hiring its first female minister. Or am I the only one who sees the strong correlation between Mrs. Higgy's responsibilities and those of the recently departed Minister of Prayer. A rose by any other name....
abuelo,
I am unaware that Mrs. Higgy is a minister. Not saying she's not, just unaware.
abuelo: That slipped right past me. Is it a semantics issue? What is her official title?
There is a difference between women in ministry and women pastors (or women being in authority over men in church)
Socwork: exactly.
(By the way: HI!)
abuelo,
It's very strange that Mrs. Higgy appears to be the Ministeress of Prayer at Bellevue now. Evidently, on the official Bellevue Baptist Deacon site, Mrs. Higgy has this incredible prayer direction for the deacon body to follow.
It struck me as being very odd when told of this new development by a deacon who is not happy.
A women being over the Bellevue Baptist Deacon body when it comes to prayer is a bit odd. I don't agree with it because I think she has been put in authority over these deacon men of Bellevue.
The days at Bellevue are getting stranger and stranger by the day. It's almost as if nothing can surprise you any longer.
Hi concernedsbcer! :)
nathan b said:
It struck me as being very odd when told of this new development by a deacon who is not happy.
Sotl says:
A deacon is not happy about mrs. higgy...wonder if that same deacon expressed any reservation when SG winked at sodomy.
My guess is that sodomy of one's on is ok...but a woman praying over a man!! THIS is where he'll draw the line!
When the men 'in authority' don't obey scripture....and leave perverts on staff.....
someone has to lead them.....maybe a little less pride and arrogance(and testostrone) will help????
This said from the mouth of a Baptist girl (I can't believe my thoughts!)who has experienced too much betrayal from these male "leaders"....
not the way I believe but maybe a woman should be watching over the finances too...
the males have done a crummy job.
at least women can't be in the good ol boys club and "keep things tight"as the brute put it.
just thinking out loud....
(is the roof caving in yet?!)
Bryan Miller is the last one to talk to....just a yes man.
would it hurt to e-mail him anyway and load him up with questions?
Nathanb said:
Evidently, on the official Bellevue Baptist Deacon site, Mrs. Higgy has this incredible prayer direction for the deacon body to follow.
Does anyone have the link to this? Nothing on bellevue.org that I can see.
captaincook,
LOL, the "chairman" of the deacons is Bryan Miller, the same guy that " chaired" the so-called Business Meeting.
Don't know his email addy, but save your time. If he didn't care about the business meeting, do you really think that he is going to care what we think about THIS?
This guy is a joke. He has no integrity, and he has proven it at the fake business meeting.
You might as well write a letter to Jim Angel, the guy who stopped the meeting when CW walked to the microphone.
These guys didnt' care about PW and what he did..do you REALLY think that they will care about THIS?
I sure hope not. It's really insulting.
Actually....
where they would not care about a sexual predator
or boldly lying
or jacking with the finances and the books...
breaking laws....
They MAY respond to their "authority" being QUESTIONED!!
"Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." Preaching is always supposed to be central to worship. Prayer goes with it, but the preaching of the Word is supposed to be central...always. More charismatic chaos from the pulpit. All outward display and no substance. But then, what's new?
abuelo wrote:
"Now, however, I am curious that given the outcry about the donation to FMC for having a female pastor (not discounting support of abortion and homosexuality) that there has been no condemnation of BBC for just hiring its first female minister. Or am I the only one who sees the strong correlation between Mrs. Higgy's responsibilities and those of the recently departed Minister of Prayer."
Oh, my! You mean someone beat out Donna Gaines for that honor? What about her recent dream in which she said she saw herself and her husband as "co-pastors" of BBC? Seriously, I thought the problem with FUMC was the support of abortion rights and homosexuality.
I doubt Mrs. Higgy's title is "minister" of anything, but it does seem the title "minister" has been freely bestowed upon a number of male staffers at BBC in recent years. (Just look at the staff page on BBC's website to see what I mean.) I'm thinking of one in particular who was recently ordained as a perk of his new position.
Sounds to me like this deacon who objects to a lowly woman leading a prayer "ministry" has unresolved issues of his own. I hope, however, that she isn't hiding some 17-year-old secret like the "recently departed" Minister of Prayer did! Remember, this was the man leading the prayer group for the pastor search committee, and you see how that turned out!
So let me see if I've got this straight now... the deacons, as a whole, haven't openly objected to all the things Steve Gaines & Co. have done, but they object to this? Gasp! Where are their priorities???
I suppose if she starts getting them alone and asking the deacons the kinds of questions the "recently departed" did of certain women, then we can agree there's a problem! Otherwise, I wouldn't get myself in too much of a lather over it.
I've learned by experience these past months that if I mention anything about Dr. R it is considered a slam against SG. I then am told I am worshipping Dr.R
and not willing to let go of the past. Both accusations are false. I did not worship him but I did deeply respect him and was continually thankful for the rich blessing of being under his teaching for so many years.
One of my favorite memories of Dr.R: A dear friend of ours was dying from cancer and at home with Hospice. Dr. R and Joyce came by one afternoon to pray with him and his wife. Dr. R took him by the hand and said, "Son, sometimes God makes a man whole by healing him;
sometimes God makes a man whole by taking him Home." I've used that exhortation many times to comfort others in their loss.:-)
32 yrs,
The pro Gaines group would like to justify the lack of integrity, honesty, substance,etc of Steve Gaines by accusing others of us of worshipping Dr Rogers.
Respect and trust do not equate to worship. Dr. Rogers earned his place of love in the hearts of people worldwide. He was a man of impeccable integrity and a man that loved, respected and feared God. He was a man that talked the talk and walked the walk.
The longer this mess goes on at our church the more I miss him and all he stood for.
His departure from Bellevue and coming to Jesus would have been less painful, had we gotten a man in the pulpit of Bellevue that we could trust and respect and honor.
As it is with the evil continuing to seep out of leadership in all directions, our loss is intensified and the wounds just continue to fester rather than healing.
May God bring us healing and save Bellevue.
been redeemed said:
The "don't touch God's annointed" does not fly in the face of Scripture and has no relevance here.
Again I say, SG inherited the mess that the former administration left him.
sheeplessatbbc said...
32 yrs,
Respect and trust do not equate to worship. Dr. Rogers earned his place of love in the hearts of people worldwide. He was a man of impeccable integrity and a man that loved, respected and feared God. He was a man that talked the talk and walked the walk.
The longer this mess goes on at our church the more I miss him and all he stood for.
REPLY: I so agree with you! A few days before Easter, my husband and I sat down to watch the DVD of Dr. R's funeral...first time to view it since being at the memorial service. My husband made the remark that many who were in attendance that day to honor him are now dishonoring him in order to
build up SG. He then said "How could their hearts so quickly turn away?" I thought of Jesus and how the crowds glorified Him on Palm Sunday and yet in just a few days they were demanding He be crucified. The human heart is fickle except for the filling of the Spirit of God.
I cannot imagine the sorrow Joyce is experiencing; not just grieving her husband's death but also the grief of seeing the church he loved so much being torn asunder, and the grief of seeing his very legacy attacked. And now she is having to leave the church she has invested her heart and life in for over 32 years. She needs our continued prayer. If we are hurting, think how much greater her pain.
32,
Yes, we all do need to pray for Mrs. Rogers and the entire Rogers, Edmiston and Foster families.
One cannot even begin to imagine the hurt and loss they must feel.
I remember the night Dr Rogers announced his upcoming retirement, and he asked the church to particularily pray for Janice that she was really having a hard time with his decision to retire.
While our individual losses are great, they cannot compare to their losses.
When you see Mrs Rogers she is the same lovely and gracious lady as always. What a travesty that Dr. Rogers' family could not peacefully grieve his loss, but have to grieve the loss of the church family they grew up in at the same time.
Eh... this may be the wrong place... wrong time... whatever... but anyways...
If y'all could please pray for my sister and her family... seems that her hubby has decided that he's "not happy" and that a life of drinking, porn, strippers and escorts would be a) more normal and b) make him happy.
Pray for God to intervene in his life and pray that God would show mercy to his family that they not suffer ill consequences from his newfound thoughts. Also, pray for me, that I might not harbor such ill feelings towards him.
SS
Did anyone catch America's favorite pastor (Rick Warren) on Fox and Friends this AM. He was selling his Global P.E.A.C.E. plan. He was discussing using churches to network global health care and "other things". (did he mention education?) He make no mention of God of the gospel or anything associated with winning souls to Christ. The only word he used that would identify him as anything but a politician was the word "churches."
By the way, NASS. He was wearing a white shirt with the collar open. I guess the Hawaiian look is out.
sheeplessatbbc said...
Watching,
What part of this do you not understand??!!
1. Steve Gaines told leaders to deal with the amen guy. He told Mark Dougharty, as reported to Mark Sharp, that he, (SG) had a dream about the amen guy, which MD related to Mark Sharp. Mark Sharp later re-verified that same fact with Mark Dougharty, then in the very same conversation MD denied it when he learned from Mark Sharp that Steve Gaines was denying the dream. Steve Gaines, not only lies, but by his bullyness coerces others to lie. Granted they should be men enough and men of God to not lie, but obviously that is not the case..(their lying is their problem, not SG's) (see Mark Sharp’s letters on Savingbellevue.com)
2. Steve Gaines refuses to abide by Matthew 18..reportedly by some other deacons, Matt 18 does not apply to the pastor, Steve Gaines, huh??
3. Steve Gaines trespassed by climbing over a fence in a gated, no trespassing community and took three other men with him..men in authority of Bellevue Baptist Church. Steve Gaines lies, calling it an“itty-bitty fence” they stepped over. Truth is, it’s a 41” fence..no one could just step over it. (See photo’s on Savingbellevue.com)
4. Steve Gaines refers to Mark Sharp as Hez.
5. Steve Gaines trash talks Bellevue members at Union.
6. A minister of Bellevue confesses to Steve Gaines in June that he raped, sodomized his own son for 12 - 18 months.
7. Steve Gaines keeps this pedophile on staff, roaming the halls and bathrooms of BBC, making himself available to other children of BBC should he choose to do so.
8. Steve Gaines tells PW, the pedophile, "it's under the blood",
and assures him he will not loose his job and even gives him a raise during the 6 months he leaves him on staff roaming around BBC.
9. Steve Gaines only comes clean with the confession and lets the church family know we have a minister that has had a "moral failure"!!! when PW's own son the "victim" wants to know from Steve Gaines why his father/ perpetrator is still on staff at Bellevue.
10. Steve Gaines gives $25,000
of Bellevue's tithes and offerings to an apostate church, that has a female pastor that openly supports homosexuality and abortion.
There is much more, but this is enough for you to chew on for awhile.
Watching, why are you trying to justify Steve Gaines actions, are you vying for a staff position at BBC, there are lots of openings.
You were previously a minister at a pentecostal church for 17 yrs, do you approve of this behavior for a minister?
STEVE GAINES DID NOT INHERIT ANY OF THESE PROBLEMS..HE AND HE ALONE CREATED THEM!!
Watching, get into reality. Do not come back with the rebuttal that PW committed these sins 17 yrs ago and someone should have known. That dog won't hunt!!
The entire PW incident rests on the shoulders of Steve Gaines, he is the one who knew, he is the one PW confessed to and Steve Gaines allowed him to remain on staff... ALL STEVES GAINES PROBLEMS..
8:20 AM, May 03, 2007
Springerspaniel,
Praying for you and your sister & family.
Will pray, springer spaniel.
WatchingHISstory said...
been redeemed said:
The "don't touch God's annointed" does not fly in the face of Scripture and has no relevance here.
Again I say, SG inherited the mess that the former administration left him.
REPLY:
AGAIN I SAY, SG KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS GETTING INTO. NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTS!!!!!!!!
Would someone please give Watching a crystal ball? I think he needs one to keep him busy.
SS: I am praying for your sister and her family and you. I'm so sorry that she is going thru this. Life gets turned upside down sometimes and it doesn't make any sense. God is still in control.
New BBC Open Forum said...
Oh, my! You mean someone beat out Donna Gaines for that honor? What about her recent dream in which she said she saw herself and her husband as "co-pastors" of BBC?
I'm not so sure this is a far-fetched as we might think.
On Bellevue.org, the pastors photo flips from Steve, then to a photo of Steve & Donna. Why is Donna included in the pastor photo, why is her presence so important?
Another thing..when Donna did the "dessert with Donna night" (long time ago) I was in the bookstore shortly after picking up a couple of the tapes and remarking on enjoying it. One of the women workers said Bro Steve had said to them, if Bellevue was a Methodist church, Donna would be the minister and he would be Mr Donna, or something of that effect.
Maybe that's why he so willingly gave $25,000 to an apostate Methodist church, maybe that's where their heart is; Methodist doctrine.
Maybe Bellevue is headed toward an openly more liberal doctrine and away from Baptist altogether.
Leaders, pull yourselves up by the bootstraps and stop this downhill spiral of liberalism before Bellevue Baptist Church is lost forever!
SOTL,
When do you sail off, sipping on those (non alcholic) red umbrella drinks?
Oh, Cary boy, the ship, the ship is sailing...
whs wrote:
"Again I say, SG inherited the mess that the former administration left him."
So did Ronald Reagan, but he stepped up to the plate and took responsibility for trying to fix the mess. What's Steve Gaines' excuse?
Steve Gaines ain't Ronald Reagan.
Pity that neither is G.W. Bush.
Can anyone give me the biblical authority to... well, for lack of a better term... pummel someone into seeing things the right way?
It'd sure be nice, and it'd make me feel better as well.
Angry and dealing,
SS
ss,
Angry at SG or angry at us?
Springer,
Piglet has this fabulous designer purse, maybe you could borrow it to be the "enforcer".
If piglet wont't loan it out, maybe we could find those 4 little old ladies and let them do their job on the wayward one.
SpringerSpaniel said...
Steve Gaines ain't Ronald Reagan.
REPLY: You got that right.
Can anyone give me the biblical authority to... well, for lack of a better term... pummel someone into seeing things the right way?
REPLY: I must have missed the pummeling. When did that occur?
It'd sure be nice, and it'd make me feel better as well.
Angry and dealing,
SS
REPLY: Try taking the ANGER out of the equation and look at the cold hard facts.
BTW, I also am praying for your sister.
sheep,
We sail out on the 26th...
As the ship pulls away, I'll be the one sipping the ( non alcoholic) red drink with the little umbrella in it, waving bye bye to those left behind on shore, with the pouty lips, playing sad music on the viola.
Hello? Where'd everybody go?
Hi Guys,
I can't believe I am doing this but I am going to recommend a book. I have had so many people recommend it to me that I bought it on Amazon (used) and read it last night with my Bible open the whole time.
So much of his scripture teaching applies to this situation! He has a whole chapter on Spiritual Abuse and scripture. But some of the things this pastor says are so right on: Just because you recognize a problem DOES NOT make you the problem.
You will love his teaching on the false use of 'annointed' with the leadership.
He talks about manipulation in
'secrecy' of finances, etc being part of the power posturing that goes along with abuse, etc.
And he also talks about why people do not talk about it...just leave or those that stay. He talks about "false unity and false peace"
The name of the book is:
The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse: Recognizing& Escaping, Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority within the Church
The authors are: David Johnson and Jeff Van Vonderen.
Get the book and be a Berean while you read.
(Don't think for one moment that what BBC is doing is NOT legalistic...it is. We have a tendancy to think legalism is what we wear, etc...it is actually deeper than that. Rick Warren is a legalist, for example. In his 'religion' you need to be 'doing' something like PEACE or 5 steps to a good marriage. All of that is legalism and keeps you from focusing on Christ and His Word. Legalism is anytime the leadership wants you to swallow and follow and not ask questions they do not like.)
Grace and Peace.
I have heard of that book and almost bought it many times. Perhaps I'll have to follow through and really buy it - it sounds interesting.
springer, I am grieved to hear of the situation you described. I pray that God will be glorified and hearts turned by Him to true repentance. I will pray for spiritual mentors for the children.
Grace and Peace to you.
Nass, you have mail response from your e-mail. :o)
New BBC Open Forum said...
Hello? Where'd everybody go?
3:25 PM, May 03, 2007
Packing to go....The ship sails on the 26th....Don't want to miss it..It will be great with SOTL and the rest of us trouble makers....Can you imagine all of us on one ship.....
or we could be just trying to figure out all these little squiggle letters to post with....
I'm gonna carpool to the beach :p
BTW, does anyone know if Bellevue still has the buses? The Career Group, unlike previous years is not using the church bus to go to Gulf Shores. Seems pretty interesting to me.
We have breaking news:
Special Meeting after the 9:30am service to nominate messengers to the SBC Meeting in San Antonio.
Here is the list of the 10 nominees:
1. Moonbat Gaines
2. Mrs. Moonbat Gaines
3. Bryan "Monkey Business Meeting" Miller
4. Dena Miller
5. Webb Williams
6. Peggy Williams
7. David Purdue Sr.
8. Rev. R L Sorrell (Is that Bob Sorrell?)
9. Michael Spradlin
10. Michael Day
Also, Jerry Rankin will be doing the message Sunday morning and Wade Akins will be doing the Wednesday Night Service.
NBBCOF
This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church can come to comment and exchange ideas in a respectful, Christian spirit.
Are references to Pastor Gaines and his wife Donna as moonbat within the guidelines of respectful Christian spirit?
While I disagree with the theology and leadership of Pastor Rogers I will not resort to such language for any pastor regardless of his behavior.
So…did anybody catch the names of the staff members listed in the Bellevue Today that is on the Bellevue website for this coming Sunday?
Interestingly enough…and it is probably just an error…but it lists Jamie Parker as Minister of Music AND Minister of Instrumental Music.
Most likely, this is just an error that occurred with the old cut and paste function from the printing folks, but it is rather interesting.
Could-it-be-true,
I caught that as well. Wonder whats up.
At risk of sounding like a Dr. Rogers worshiper - I was thinking of his analogy of works salvation being like the futility of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while it was sinking. It seems to me that all the attempts of the leadership to salvage the damage that's been done to Bellevue is like rearranging the deck chairs while the great ship, Bellevue, is sinking underneath them. The letter from Mark Dougharty is just the latest example.
Your right 32,
All of the damage control that Gaines and Co. do, all it does is pour more gasoline onto the raging inferno. The Monkey Business meeting was a clear example of that.
One item of note!!!
Webb and Peggy Williams both knew about PW and his secret sin and they knew for some time PRIOR to SG finding out. Does the body of Christ want someone willing to cover such horrible sin to represent them before the SBC? That's not to mention the Gaines' participation in the fiasco. It was Steve Gaines' responsibility to protect BBC from that scandal, and instead he hid the secret sin and allowed the church to be damaged. Of course, Mr. Deacon Miller is part of the "shut down the meetng if things get too close" bunch. I do not know his wife, but more than likely, they are together on their opinions of truth. And last but most definitely least, Mr Dave Perdue, who was forced to step down from the MABTS board for cause. I do not know Michael Day - any comments on where he stands?
All that said, looks to me like only a couple of men can meet the test of honesty and integrity to represent the church.
whs,
Moonbats are cute, lovable creatures. It's a term of endearment, see?
sheeplessatbbc said:
"The entire PW incident rests on the shoulders of Steve Gaines, he is the one who knew, he is the one PW confessed to and Steve Gaines allowed him to remain on staff... ALL STEVES GAINES PROBLEMS.."
The incident took place 17 years ago.
Why didn't the son approach AR about his father being on staff?
Why didn't the pedophile confess to AR?
Why didn't the wife confide in AR?
The church was in greater danger of the pedophile before he confessed to SG.
"Watching, get into reality. Do not come back with the rebuttal that PW committed these sins 17 yrs ago and someone should have known. That dog won't hunt!!"
1) No one knew
2) No one should have known
3) someone should should have known
1) God put the pervert there and did not intend for anyone to know untill SG came.
2) It was an evil act beyond's God's control and God did not intend for anyone to know untill SG came.
3) It was an evil act and God would have liked for someone to have been sensitive enough for him to reveal it to them.
4) It was an evil act and God would have liked for the pervert to be convicted and confess on his own.
Springer,
Your sister, and your whole family are in my prayers. I am sorry your sister is dealing with this. I pray she especially feels God's love and grace during this time. I also pray your brother in law recognizes the destruction of the path he is on and his need for God and reconciliation. I know it’s hard not to be angry, but I always try to remember this is the behavior of someone in pain and is spiritually sick.
NASS,
You've got mail
whs,
Just drop it, please! You have been told repeatedly to take your issues with Dr. Rogers elsewhere. Please refrain from dragging him and his family into these discussions. If you have an issue with Lynn, take it up with him.
Thank you,
NBBCOF
Lynn said...
We have breaking news:
Special Meeting after the 9:30am service to nominate messengers to the SBC Meeting in San Antonio.
[Robert’s Rules page 89]
A special meeting (or called meeting) is a separate session of a society held at a time different from that of any regular meeting, and convened only to consider one or more items of business specified in the call of the meeting. Notice of the time, place, and exact purpose of the meeting must be mailed to all members a reasonable number of days in advance. The reason for special meetings is to deal with important matters that may arise between regular meetings and that urgently require action by the society before the next regular meeting....
The section of the bylaws that authorizes the calling of special meetings (without which special meetings cannot properly be called; see p. 558)
Plain English. The BBC leadership is not authorized by the BBC bylaws to call a special meeting to vote only on the SBC messengers. They have to call a regular meeting which means unfinished business would come before the vote on the messengers. That means the “Josh Manning motion” must be debated and voted on before the SBC messenger vote. If they call a special meeting it will be one in a growing line of instances where the BBC leadership operates outside the rules.
Having read the transcript of the last business meeting at savingbellvue it is difficult to believe the parliamentarian made so many basic mistakes given his credentials. Very basic mistakes.
Watching said, incident took place 17 years ago.
Why didn't the son approach AR about his father being on staff?
Why didn't the pedophile confess to AR?
Why didn't the wife confide in AR?
Reply: You're kidding, right? You have no idea or understanding about this type of crime. Your questions show that. Maybe you should not post about this until you can educate at least your head. if not your heart.
Watching said,
1) No one knew
2) No one should have known
3) someone should should have known
1) God put the pervert there and did not intend for anyone to know untill SG came.
2) It was an evil act beyond's God's control and God did not intend for anyone to know untill SG came.
3) It was an evil act and God would have liked for someone to have been sensitive enough for him to reveal it to them.
4) It was an evil act and God would have liked for the pervert to be convicted and confess on his own.
Reply: I notice you involved God in each of your explanations. Kinda looks like you are coupling the sin with God. God does not invite sin, for whatever reason. You talk about what God would like. God would have liked it that it would have never happened. Maybe it is just flat out sin. Does that need to have an explanation other than the wickedness of the human condition?
General....
reading what you just quoted....it made me think of something....
This announcement was on the bulletin....in other words...if you don't have access to the internet, you won't know till you get there. That means...There is NO ADVANCE NOTICE!. And I don't recall seeing anything else previous announcing it either in the mail or through prior bulletins.
WatchingHistory/Mr. Page: Please notice that I did not use the terms "Dear" or "Brother". I cannot believe you. I am going to ask that NASS ban you if you continue on your insane quest while using this dear victim as a tool.
HOW DARE YOU TO ASK WHY DIDN'T THIS BOY TELL ADRIAN ROGERS!!!
Where is your head? Where is it stuck? Do you not understand anything of this horrible crime? I thought many had shared with you in some detail why vicitms do not come forward until many years later. I know I told you it took me over 35 years to tell anyone for the first time and then another 9 years before I could tell the real story.
HOW DARE YOU!! I am not going to be so kind now. With the type of questions you asked tonight, I can fully see why you are no longer a pastor. You have some real issues and you need to deal with them but not here.
I am not asking any more, I am telling you to drop this NOW.
NASS, it is obvious this man cannot get past his issues with this victim or Dr. Rogers or maybe both. I beg and implore you if he continues to drag this victim and his family into whatever issues he has, please prayerfully consider the trash can for him.
I am tired of his continuing on this issue and he is so stupid he does not see the harm he is causing victims and in particular this dear victim.
NASS and dear others, I am sorry for going off on this guy but enough is enough. "Watching" it way past time to move on. There I have said it.
David Brown
NBBCOF
lynn says:
Welcome to the Jungle....
Just to introduce myself, but I am a 25 year old redneck from Memphis who created (his) blog to express his takes on everything from sports to politics to even the lint in the dryer!. Warning, some of my takes may not be politically correct. So if my take offends you...deal with it. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled to yours.
Well if he wants to call DR Gaines a moonbat, well I guess according to you it is ok.
so when I critize Dr Rogers how can it be wrong? I am concerned about the issues that face Bellevue and I have my opinions.
I will not stoop to lynn's level but I will express my opinions.
Now if you want to determine whose opinions are valid you hold that power on this blog.
I will not stop!
off-line
Here is the actual text of the notice in Bellevue Today of the special called meeting to elect messengers to the SBC:
Notice is hereby given that a special meeting of the members of Bellevue Baptist Church
has been called by the Board of Directors and will be held on Sunday, May 20, 2007, following the
9:30 a.m. service. The purpose of this special meeting shall be limited to the election of ten (10)
messengers to the 2007 Southern Baptist Convention to be held June 12-13, 2007, in San
Antonio, Texas. The following individuals will be nominated to serve as messengers:
1) Dr. Steve Gaines
2) Donna Gaines
3) Bryan Miller
4) Dena Miller
5) Rev. Webb Williams
6) Peggy Williams
7) David Perdue, Sr.
8) Rev. R. L. Sorrell
9) Dr. Michael Spradlin
10) Dr. Michael Day
I thought it was interesting that the notice specically states that the meeting is limited to this one item of business. What do you suppose would happen if someone spoke out and reminded them that there is a matter of old business (the motion on the floor when the last meeting was adjourned) to address before taking up this new business?
junk99mail said....
"I thought it was interesting that the notice specically states that the meeting is limited to this one item of business. What do you suppose would happen if someone spoke out and reminded them that there is a matter of old business (the motion on the floor when the last meeting was adjourned) to address before taking up this new business?"
Simple...they'll bring in 7 security guards to drag you out of the sanctuary, handcuff you, harass you verbally, and call the cops on you for trespassing. That seems to be how they handle things nowadays up there.
Oh, Lynn, no way ... that special treatment is reserved for teen girls!
Thank you David Brown.
WHS is very SCARY!!
watching said
I will not stoop to lynn's level but I will express my opinions.
Now if you want to determine whose opinions are valid you hold that power on this blog.
I will not stop!
off-line
Reply: Not a very good comeback. You are not realizing how 'stooped' you are. At least others aren't bashing someone who cannot defend himself. And this looks real manly too, you say "I will not stop!", then you run
'off-line'. I think you need to check your 'credentials', so to speak.
OC.
General Henry M. Robert said...
The section of the bylaws that authorizes the calling of special meetings (without which special meetings cannot properly be called; see p. 558)
Plain English. The BBC leadership is not authorized by the BBC bylaws to call a special meeting to vote only on the SBC messengers. They have to call a regular meeting which means unfinished business would come before the vote on the messengers. That means the “Josh Manning motion” must be debated and voted on before the SBC messenger vote. If they call a special meeting it will be one in a growing line of instances where the BBC leadership operates outside the rules.
REPLY:
Aw shucks, General Sir, do they have to play by your rules? That's no fun.
John Mark said...
lynn,
get help...
9:39 PM, May 03, 2007
Help with what?
Watching,
You REALLY are an idiot if you are going to hold a CHILD responsible for not telling AR.
Yeah, I said it: YOU ARE AN IDIOT if you think that the VICTIM shares in the blame if he, as a child, did not report the abuse sooner.
And for that matter, YOU don't get to decide how and when and where the VICTIM works up the courage to determine to look at what has happened to him to the point that he decides to VERBALIZE it.
You sit there in your armchair, and think that you get to second guess when and how and to whom an adult survivor tells?
You are a creepy little man.
Go away.
Clearly they are not following Robert’s Rules if the call a special meeting. Special meetings are not allowed unless provided for in the bylaws. Here are the pages in Robert’s Rules if you care to look this up.
Special meeting, 89-90
bylaws provisions authorizing, 6, 89-90, 558, 568
call of a, 89-90
of convention body, 229-230
covers adjourned meetings, as one session, 90
defined, 89
laid on table, business for which meeting called may not be, 208
minutes not approved in, 456
minutes of, 452
not permitted unless provided for in bylaws, 89-90, 229-230
only business mentioned in the call can be transacted at, 90
session of, normally one meeting, 89
setting of adjourned meeting by, 90
If you raise a point of order about this it should be sustained by the chair. If your point of order is not sustained by the chair then your next step is to immediately “appeal the ruling of the chair”. The chair must allow you to appeal. He is not allowed to rule your appeal out of order, primarily because your position is the correct one. Of course your parliamentarian & moderator are not very good, so they may rule you out of order anyway. They seem to like the phrase “your point is not well taken” even when the point of order is correct. The appeal of the chair’s ruling basically means the congregation gets to decide who is right, you or the chair. Since the rules are very clear you just read the rules to the church body from the RR book. If the congregation still votes to side with the chair [and blatantly ignore the rules] …well there is little you can do at that point.
There are ways they could follow the rules and still avoid a vote on the Josh Manning motion if that is their intent. That would be a shame but better than blatantly ignoring the rules.
Last point – get a rule book and read section 22 “Fix the Time to which to adjourn” over and over until you understand what it is saying.
Offline.
Springer: Same thing happened to me. Stick with your sister. It's devastating. She is welcome to email me if I can help or if she needs to talk with someone who's been there. I'll be praying for her as well.
Guys,
These so called leaders don't care about bylaws or Roberts Rules of Order..
They have no rules...except the ones they make up as they go along.
Lynn,
Maybe John Mark aka Arminius means get help!
Watching said: Why didn't the pedophile confess to AR?
Don't go there. He was a kid...dealing with a horrible situation. NOT ONE OUNCE of blame goes on his shoulders.
open,
Thanks for the warning. I appreciate your input, but Dr Rogers did not ASK for his office to be remodeled. It was something that others wanted to do for him. The man never asked for a thing and was grateful for even the smallest of token gifts. He repeatedly refused raises and never made one thin dime on the books sold thru LWF. He and Joyce both were above board financially and if the truth were known by us, they probably gave most of their income back to the Lord.
If the administration (I cannot bear to call them leadership any more) start trying to cover their own extravant sins by blaming Dr Rogers, they are bigger fools than we thought.
mom,
I heard that for the first time in its' history, BBC had to dip into the reserves to make the payroll..don't know if that is true or not, BUT...if they are planning somehow to justify their own mismanagement by making up stuff about DR. R...that dog wont' hunt.
Mom 4,
This administration is a joke! Lunch boxes, football uniforms, little dresses and tiaras, wine bottles on tables, editing and splicing ghost worshippers in recent Sunday morning services ..does it surprise you that they would divert and attack to try to justify and cover their evil tracks.
This has all become just toooooooooo weird. Help!! I'm in a nightmare and I can't wake up.
Sheep,
I saw the RIDICULOUS shrine to the co-pastor wannabe.
To say that it is in bad taste is an understatement!!!
sheep,
I sent the photos of the shrine to a SB friend of mine who lives in TX, and she is absolutely speechless.
Did anyone get pictures of the lunchbox/football shrine? I had a friend I was telling about it in GARDENDALE, AL. This one with the co-pastor will crack her up, but I would really like the first one if anyone has it.
SOTL,
Our dearly loved favorite "Bellevue First Lady" was also a cheerleader, but do you think she would have allowed such a display of her early years in a display case at Bellevue. Dr. Rogers was also a football player, but would he have screamed "look at me" by promoting himself in his football uniform in the Bellevue messenger on the pastors message page.
Steve & Donna have nothing to brag about in the present time, so it seems they must live in the glory of their past...how pathetic!
sheep said:
Our dearly loved favorite "Bellevue First Lady" was also a cheerleader, but do you think she would have allowed such a display of her early years in a display case at Bellevue.
SOTL says:
Mrs. Rogers has WAAAAAAY too much class to have allowed such an ostentatious, tacky and classless display about herself.
If anyone has photos of the "Stevie Wonder", "King Steve" display case, I'd like a copy too.
Was there a "crown" in the case to go with co-pastors tiara?
Wonder if they wear them when they are home alone?
Wonder if they wear them when they are home alone?
LOLOLOL!!!! mental image!!!
SOTL says:
Mrs. Rogers has WAAAAAAY too much class to have allowed such an ostentatious, tacky and classless display about herself.
ABSOLUTELY & POSITIVELY
In the past, those cases were used to display the heritage of the church and those that sacrificed to bring her thru the last 100 years with God' blessings, without stain or blemish, with a solid reputation.
I guess those days don't matter any more. It is all about "me" time now.
This should be the wording at the top of the shrine:
"IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!!"
Maybe they could have a little section where, as people pass, they could kiss the rings of the king and queen.
SOTL,
You are so funny! I'm going to bed before I ruin my keyboard.
G'nite all!
SOTL,
We'll miss you too much while you are crusin' & sippin', you must take your laptop and stay plugged in.
Off to count my sheep, they keep "missing in action"
I heard today how these "displays" are done and by whom. Seems the library staff is in charge of the display cabinet and does these things on their own. In this case they said they got all that stuff from Donna's parents and erected the "shrine" as a surprise. (I said it certainly had its intended effect!) I heard a similar story about the "Steve Gaines -- The Early Years" display.
So I suppose it's not completely fair to say the Gaineses are "promoting" themselves with those displays. However, if I were Donna Gaines, I think I would have found a polite way to express to the library staff that while I was very grateful for their thoughtfulness, I thought it was really not an appropriate use of the space. I would suggest they might want to honor Dr. and Mrs. Rogers in a similar fashion. On second thought... not a similar fashion. Instead of trophies and cheerleading memorabilia, I'd suggest they devote the space to the ministries of our Pastor Emeritus and Mrs. Rogers.
They said they'd leave this one up 3-4 months, then they'll do one about "Steve -- The Later Years" -- which I guess means... ?
sheepless,
They have many email cafe's down thre, so i'll be checking in...in between my red ( non alcoholic) drinks with the little umbrellas.
You know I want to keep ACErtain person up to date on what he missed!!!
The whole idea of erecting "shrines" in a church to mere men borders on idolatry any way you slice it. God commanded us not to make any shrines to Himself (images, idols)...why do we idolize mere men?
NASS: Being a lady of few words (ha ha) all I can think of to say after seeing the case is "You've gotta be kidding."
Maybe they would consider doing a
shrine with all my cruise memorabilia?
Can you imagine, all my little paper umbrellas lined up...so colorful....
And I could bring back some sand..and they could use all my differnt colored flip flops that would beautifully coordinate with my little paper umbrellas from my
( non-alcoholic) red drinks.
Oh, Oh, and my little plastic sand bucket...it would be so cute!!!
The possibilities are endless!!!
Ok, folks, concernedbbcer just pointed out to me that there is just ONE little problem with my
cruise memorabilia shrine:
I am no longer a BBC member...
But she also had the solution:
Just label it:
SOTL: The Withdrawn Years
SOTL wrote:
"Ok, folks, concernedbbcer just pointed out to me that there is just ONE little problem with my
cruise memorabilia shrine:
"I am no longer a BBC member..."
Goodness, why should that be an issue? After all, Donna Gaines' sister and niece voted on every motion during the "business" meeting, and they're not members of BBC. So I don't see why your little "cruise" shrine should pose any problem.
Questions:
(1) Is Carter Threlkeld still at Bellevue and on staff?
(2) This one is for Amy or anyone else taking refuge at GBC: Is there any angst among the GBC members re: the influx of BBC people? Are the BBC people assimilating or pretty much staying in their own groups?
I ask because my family is considering GBC when we leave Bellevue because of the present leadership there whom we love and respect and feel safe with. We do realize Jim W., Bob Sorrell and Mike Spradlin are only interim and things could change there too depending on the new pastor. We are battle-worn and forelorn at this stage and it is a very difficult thing to move on after all these many years.
32+: I don't know the answer to that for sure, but he's still listed in Staff.
sotl
"You REALLY are an idiot if you are going to hold a CHILD responsible for not telling AR."
You are twisting my words around to what you would like for me to be saying.
I am not not holding the child responsible, no not at all.
I am holding AR responsible for not being approachable for all those years.
If you call me an idiot then call me an idiot for holding AR responsibe.
And I do with passion not anger.
off-line I've got a job.
(2) This one is for Amy or anyone else taking refuge at GBC: Is there any angst among the GBC members re: the influx of BBC people?
Hi 32. I have been a GBC member for years, and I love your posts.
I have heard zero complaints and no angst in the circles where I run. I love the new BBC folks I have met. Just solid people if you know what I mean. Some of my new friends have joined, and some visit on Sunday night with plans to join when their teaching commitments on Sunday mornings at BBC are completed.
Are the BBC people assimilating or pretty much staying in their own groups?
I can’t really say. I teach in the children’s department so I don’t know if they are forming new SS classes or joining existing ones. If anyone wants to volunteer to work with the children or youth bring it on. That’s a great way to assimilate. I have no problem with a BBC SS class coming over lock stock and barrel as long as they welcome any new people that show up and want to join their class. I do see a lot of folks on Sunday & Wednesday nights with their Bibles that my new friends tell me are BBC folks. That is great.
I ask because my family is considering GBC when we leave Bellevue because of the present leadership there whom we love and respect and feel safe with. We do realize Jim W., Bob Sorrell and Mike Spradlin are only interim and things could change there too depending on the new pastor. We are battle-worn and forelorn at this stage and it is a very difficult thing to move on after all these many years.
6:25 AM, May 04, 2007
That paragraph breaks my heart. I can only imagine what it must be like. Just know you are welcome to just come and visit for as long as you need to. We were forelorn too for a while at GBC after our split. Thank you Jesus for Bob Sorrell, Dr. Whitmire and Dr. Spradlin.
As for me and the folks I speak to I would say this. BBC folks are welcome to:
Come and visit and eventually join if they feel led to.
Come and visit for a long time but retain BBC membership in case they want to vote on something.
Visit and decide it’s not the place for you.
Join and become active immediately up to your eyeballs.
Join and just attend a while until you get your legs back.
Join GBC and then later leave to return to BBC if things change. I really would not blame anyone for doing that.
I would hope that is the attitude of most GBC members.
Off Topic: For years GBC has taken mission trips to the Dominican Republic. Sometimes several in a year mostly led by a local orthodontist Dr. Cooper Sandusky. They will pull thousands of teeth on these trips and save hundreds of souls via dental teams, medical teams, street evangelism teams, art & craft teams, etc. My family can’t make this trip but if you have any interest at all I suggest you look into this and pray about it. There are about 80 seats left on the chartered plane and no one has ever come back from this trip and regretted it. You will stay at a nice, safe resort with good food at night and go by bus to a village to work each day. Non GBC members have gone on these trips for years. Good way to make new friends whether you are a GBC member or not. Pray about it and call the GBC missions office if you want more information. There may be scholarships available if you are a student. If you speak Spanish PLEASE consider this.
whs wrote:
"I am holding AR responsible for not being approachable for all those years."
Okay, that does it! I don't know what your beef with Dr. Rogers is, but you have been repeatedly asked to not air it here. From everything I've ever heard, Dr. Adrian Rogers was one of the most approachable pastors ever, certainly in a church the size of BBC.
Only PW knows why he didn't approach Dr. Rogers for all those years. I suspect he was pretty certain he'd be fired on the spot and that the authorities would be notified. He knew Dr. Rogers was a man of integrity and wouldn't have covered for him. In Steve Gaines he apparently saw (and found) something else.
I have to concur with SOTL on this one. On this point, you really are acting like an idiot when you say the victim wouldn't have been able to "approach" Dr. Rogers, and you show a total lack of understanding and sympathy for what these victims go through.
Strike three! Yer out!
NBBCOF
I find it interesting that the Sunday Bulletin is now "off-Line"
Thank you NBBCOF calling "Watching" OUT!!! I've had about all I can take of his bashing of our beloved Dr. R!
My question for any BBC Staff lurkers:
Did Robert's Rules (which was a joke) only apply to the one business meeting?
Is BBC bringing back the parlimentarian?
bbc refugee,
re: sunday bulletin...why do you think that is?
gbc member:
re: Dominican Republic trip
My daughter is in nursing school at the U of M and they went down there for school credit.
They took a bus and went up into the Haitian villages in the mountains.
She said that many of the people had NEVER seen a healh care professional in their entire lives and would get all dressed up and wait in long lines out in the hot sun all day just to get tylenol for their arthritis, or some vitamins for their baby.
When she came home and was telling us about how the people live and how GRATEFUL they were for ANYTHING that they were given, she just broke down and cried.
NOw she is constantly collecting items for those who continue to go down there, and I would bet that she would be eager to join the GBC team.
What would really be great is if she could go again after she graduates and take her brother with her.
Post a Comment