Wednesday, April 18, 2007

NUMB3RS

On March 25th we were told that over 1500 people have joined Bellevue in the past year. I have obtained the monthly numbers of decisions for 2006 and the first three months of 2007 that include professions of faith, transfer of membership by letter or statement, and "other," which includes all the other reasons people might come forward during an invitation without joining the church. While that 1500+ total for last year is correct, are this year's numbers showing the same trend?

Comparing the first three months of this year to last year we have these numbers -- the total of all decisions for each month:

January 2006 - 174 (POF-52, Letter-80, Statement-27, Other-15)
January 2007 - 67 (POF-26, Letter-22, Statement-16, Other-3)

February 2006 - 126 (POF-43, Letter-44, Statement-28, Other-11)
February 2007 - 80 (POF-32, Letter-18, Statement-18, Other-12)

March 2006 - 104 (POF-43, Letter-34, Statement-20, Other-11)
March 2007 - 29 (POF-11, Letter-9, Statement-6, Other-3)

Every decision for Christ is cause for celebration, and we should in no way minimize any decision based upon total numbers. Numbers can sometimes be one factor in measuring the health of a church. Often they're not, but the leadership of BBC seems to like to use numbers to make the point that all is well at Bellevue. So what can we conclude from the numbers given above?

653 comments:

1 – 200 of 653   Newer›   Newest»
MOM4 said...

NASS,
Thanks for the figures. I am wondering how many have left, (formally moving their membership)? I am sure those figures are there as well, we just have to get the leadership to release them.

The last I heard, there was no mass exodus of folks per the membership reports, just a noticable drop in the attendance records.

However, I really don't think these numbers matter to the leadership. The numbers being up (which is a lie) is an excuse they throw out for a convenient answer to counter complaints about their leadership (or lack thereof).

Steve Gaines has never been bothered with numbers before. He has divided his previous churches without care or consequence and he feels no concern for the membership of Bellevue either.

It is all about Steve Gaines, always has been, always will be, except the Lord intervene.

HTWOG said...

Looking at the reduced numbers of professions of faith, it is now very clear why God says that He hates those who sew discord among the brethren.

The personal offenses (both real and imagined) that many of us have refused to let go of, and have instead broadcast to the world have indeed damaged the cause of Christ.

May God have mercy on us all.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Same old story. Shoot the messenger.

Piglet said...

htwog

The personal offenses (both real and imagined) that many of us have refused to let go of, and have instead broadcast to the world have indeed damaged the cause of Christ.

Piglet says:

I may be wrong, but it appears that you are blaming our lousy witness on the folks who want accountability from leaders and think we should just let them continue to run roughshod and fleece the congregation while Gaines builds his empire.

Could it be that the lousy witness is because of the sin in the pulpit and the repeated blunders committed to cover the sin? I think sin would damage our witness - not calling it out and dealing with it. If we don't deal with it, we become the hypocrites people claim we are.

This can end when the sin is dealt with, not before.

youthmomma said...

Piglet, you took the words right out of my mouth!

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: AMEN!

Just this afternoon I had a conversation with someone- a good Christian man- that knows I have posted here. He started the conversation with Plymouth Rock on his shoulder. I was told how the problems are because concerns didn't stay within the church, and how SG had apologized for the entire PW "mistake of the mind" and yada, yada, yada. He wouldn't look at the websites because they never should be in existence because everything should stay within the church. I listened patiently and then begin to fill him in of the facts. I explained to him the lack of transparency by the leadership in all areas. It took about 30 minutes for him to stop being belligerent. Then the change was noticeable. He nailed me, asking why I cared what happened to BBC. After counting to 10 and smiling ever so sweetly, I informed him that what happened to BBC impacted the entire body of Christ. That I had major concerns with the SBC and I believed that BBC's foundational position was crucial in regards to the direction of the SBC. The conversation ended with him asking me why the congregation doesn't remove SG. My reply? Many have refused to look at the facts, compare them in the light of scripture, and do the right thing.

Just thought you'd be interested in this conversation.

Karen said...

HTWOG said...
Looking at the reduced numbers of professions of faith, it is now very clear why God says that He hates those who sew discord among the brethren.

Couldn't possibly be because of leadership doing the sowing, could it?

I have a suggestion - try another Spirit filled church this Sunday. Go feel the difference in your spirit and come back and tell us your experience. I truly believe the Spirit has left Bellevue and it is not coming back until God restores His church. Please remember "those sewing discord" for the most part don't even attend services at BBC anymore (I haven't since Christmas). There's got to be another reason for the lowered numbers - probably because of the man behind the pulpit.

karen



karen

concernedSBCer said...

Karen- Excellent Point.

How are you feeling?

Karen said...

concerner,

I'm okey dokey - I start neck therapy at the end of April. Maybe they'll hang me from the ceiling? :)

karen

Piglet said...

concernedsbcer said

He wouldn't look at the websites because they never should be in existence because everything should stay within the church. I listened patiently and then begin to fill him in of the facts. I explained to him the lack of transparency by the leadership in all areas. It took about 30 minutes for him to stop being belligerent

Piglet says:

This is what happens when people have heard only one side ( and have taken the advice of said side not to hear the other side).

Proverbs 18:13 says:

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is a folly and a shame unto him."

Our church is full of folly and shame.

watchman said...

Piglet said:

Our church is full of folly and shame.


Would that then be likely to be called the 'fully folly shame sham"...

or a derivative? ?

tn_lizzie2000 said...

watchman said...
Would that then be likely to be called the "fully folly shame sham"...

I say I'm glad I didn't have a mouth full of Sprite when I read that!

sickofthelies said...

Ladies who lunch, ( you know who you are) it's time.

Let's get a plan together, offline so as to avoid ringkissers.

Email NASS.

Piglet said...

churchmouse posted on another thread:

"And the Jews" Passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and changers of money, sitting. And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers's money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things from here; make not my Fathers house an house of merchandise. John 2: 13-16

It doesn't say He quietly slipped out to another temple. It doesn't say He gave the Pharisees and Sadducees a pass because they were God's anointed. It doesn't say that He kept silent to avoid embarrassment to His family, who had always sacrificed at this temple. He certainly wasn't worried about being labeled a troublemaker among the temple-goers or His neighbors back home in Nazareth. He wasn't fearful that His words would prevent the heathen from entering the Kingdom. He wasn't hindered by the fear of loosing teaching privileges in the temple. If He feared the "fence jumpers" of His day, He did not let that prevent Him from proclaiming the Truth.

Piglet says:

Good words! Thanks for that!

sickofthelies said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sickofthelies said...

It IS possible to call BBC and drop our memberships there w/o joining another church right away.

At this point, I have no plans to ever attend BBC again, even IF SG were to leave. The spirit of God has left that place and I have witnessed things that has broken my heart.

There is no reason to leave it on the rolls jsut so " you can vote"..because we all know that we can vote whether we are members or not.

I'm seriously considering going ahead and dropping my membership. All it would take is a phone call.

I'm not sure I want Jesus to come back and find my name on the roll of BBC.

upside down said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nathanb said...

hotwog,

You are mistaken when you think everything revolves around Bellevue Baptist Church. Praise God for everyone who is standing for truth and righteousness. Praise the Lord for shining His light down on the church and exposing SIN among the camp.
Sweeping the SIN under the rug would be the wrong thing to do. Exposing and repenting is the correct action here.

It would be better for Bellevue to fold if Truth and Righteousness are going to be ignored.

Many wonderful things are happening all over the city. Many churches are full of Godly folks who have left BBC and are now being used by God at other churches that do stand for Truth and righteousness. Many citizens of Memphis are watching to see if the church does the right thing or continues to do ungodly things. I've talked to a lot of Memphians who have kept up with the leadership decisions at BBC and trust me, the city is watching.

Do you or anyone else have any idea on how our giving numbers look? Everyone I ask says they don't know. I've never heard of a Southern Baptist Church that refuses to let the membership, deacon body, or staff know what the giving is each week.

Wake up folks. Something remains terribly wrong with Steve Gaines being our leader. It's obvious he is not a pastor.

We should all be weeping and praying for Bellevue to run to Jesus instead of running away.

nathanb said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
concernedSBCer said...

Nathan: Amen. No, I've never heard of a church keeping giving under wraps. My church publishes it every Sunday in the bulletin; the previous week's giving, year to date giving, and budget needs to date. It's really not hard. Unless you're trying to hide something.

nathanb said...

concernedsbcer,

The problem I have is trust. If the pastor and the leadership has said things in the past that are not true, what part of what they say can we beleive?

Since $25,000 was given to a pro-homosexual and pro-abortion church by our leadership, how is the membership supposed to feel good about being kept in the dark on the money being given?

We could be further funding the new TV ministry of Steve Gaines or Donna's new speaking/writing ministry and the church would never know it. Money can go out under the disguise of any number of "ministries".

This is soooooooo wrong!
I wish the SBC could step in and do something for us.
Is there a law that allows the membership access to the financial recordings?

InMemphis said...

Does anyone think it will be hard to get speakers for Awesome August at BBC considering the current situation?

Piglet said...

inmemphis said

Does anyone think it will be hard to get speakers for Awesome August at BBC considering the current situation?

Piglet says:

Not if this same traveling circuit of preachers have made an agreement to scratch eachothers backs. They may have the money already spent.....

New BBC Open Forum said...

The Bellevue Career group has a retreat planned for Memorial Day weekend:

1. They will be joining the singles ministry from First Baptist Church of Woodstock, GA. Recognize the pastor? Here's their website.

2. They will have Brett Burleson of Valley View Baptist Church of Tuscaloosa, AL doing the speaking. His profile is here. Recognize the second one down on that page?

3. The music will be provided by a band called Echoing Angels. Their website is here. http://www.echoingangels.com/

Piglet said...

nathanb said

Is there a law that allows the membership access to the financial recordings?

Piglet says:

Uhh...I think that's one of the laws they broke... :)

New BBC Open Forum said...

nathanb,

You should be able to find the answer to your question here.

GBC_Member said...

nathanb said

Is there a law that allows the membership access to the financial recordings?


48-66-102. Inspection of records by members


The problem is not what the law says, it is that people don't want to abide by the law.

Does anyone think it will be hard to get speakers for Awesome August at BBC considering the current situation?

Piglet said...

Nope. If you got money you can always find a speaker.

SpringerSpaniel said...

New BBC Open Forum said...

The Bellevue Career group has a retreat planned for Memorial Day weekend:

1. They will be joining the singles ministry from First Baptist Church of Woodstock, GA. Recognize the pastor? Here's their website.

2. They will have Brett Burleson of Valley View Baptist Church of Tuscaloosa, AL doing the speaking. His profile is here. Recognize the second one down on that page?

3. The music will be provided by a band called Echoing Angels. Their website is here. http://www.echoingangels.com/

11:49 PM, April 18, 2007


1) Johnny Hunt... excellent preacher and man of God

2) Nope... never heard of Dee Lauderdale. Care to fill me in?

3) Very good Contemporary Christian group. Not exactly my style of music, but good nonetheless.

New BBC Open Forum said...

ss wrote:

"1) Johnny Hunt... excellent preacher and man of God"

I should have clarified that I was speculating about "inmemphis's" question about if anyone thought it would be difficult to get speakers for this year's "Awesome August." Johnny Hunt was one of the speakers last year, and the fact that a group from BBC is going to be meeting with a group from his church this year implied to me that Johnny Hunt is probably still on good terms with Steve Gaines and BBC. I wasn't implying anything about Johnny Hunt himself.

"2) Nope... never heard of Dee Lauderdale. Care to fill me in?"

DL posted several times on March 2nd in the "The Sheep are Scattered" thread. His posts started out innocent enough, but it was soon learned he was over on the pastors.com "Pastor's Forum" trashing us in a thread there called "Be on the Lookout." There he bragged about how he'd put us in our place, and it was just an ugly display from someone who's supposed to be a "man of God." I'd never heard Brett Burleson, but when I went to the page with his profile, DL's name jumped out at me. I just figured "birds of a feather," but I could be wrong.

"3) Very good Contemporary Christian group. Not exactly my style of music, but good nonetheless."

Not my cup of tea either.

SpringerSpaniel said...

Ahh.. gotcha...


Who were last year's Awesome August speakers?

Johnny Hunt (he did a couple men's conferences back when they had them under Dr. Rodgers)

Voddie Baucham

The David Jeremiah/Charles Billingsly Experience

Somebody Else.

It will be interesting to see who they get this year... if they even do Aweseome August again.

Karen said...

The speaker's at Awesome August here at BBC were used at Gardendale before Steve Gaines came here. I was searching their website almost daily to see if I could see if he was going to come here or not and I happened to see that they had an Awesome August too. Not implying anything - just passing along info.

karen

nathanb said...

I remember hearing last year Johnny Hunt got $5,000 from Bellevue for speaking.

If the offer is the same this year, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out people will be lining up to speak.

I'm guessing since the reciprocal arrangement may not be available as of late (because of the publicity Steve Gaines has gotten around the convention) the offer may not be as generous to any outside speakers to come to us.

New BBC Open Forum said...

nathanb wrote:

"I'm guessing since the reciprocal arrangement may not be available as of late (because of the publicity Steve Gaines has gotten around the convention) the offer may not be as generous to any outside speakers to come to us."

Or it may have to be more generous. :-)

Proverbs 12:22 said...

Sally Sherlock and Charlie Fox were right about Mark Dougharty. He is leaving.

New BBC Open Forum said...

This is interesting...

Dear Deacon Brother,

Today in the Staff Luncheon, our Associate Pastor, Mark Dougharty, shared that Dianne and he believe that God has completed His work through them at Bellevue Baptist Church. Mark shared that the call to leave has been just as clear as his call from the Lord to come to Bellevue.

Mark has a real desire to share more with the entire Bellevue family about God's leading in his life. Accordingly, Brother Steve is setting aside time in both of the worship services this Sunday morning to allow Mark to share his heart. Plans are being formed to set aside a time to more fully express our love and appreciation to this couple for their service to our Lord and to Bellevue Baptist Church.

Please pray for Mark and Dianne as they prepare themselves for God's plans for their future.

Your brother,

Bryan Miller

socwork said...

Verrry interesting.

nathanb said...

David Coombs was brought in to run Bellevue 5 months ago. Since that time, Mark Dougharty has been invisible.
I'd say the decision was made to replace Mark Dougharty at least 5 to 6 months ago.
If I were in Mark's shoes, it would be very clear to me as well.
I'd be very careful what I told the congregation Sunday.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Wonder who is writing Marks farewell speech "sharing his heart"?

More....."monkey business"

all2jesus said...

As always, Piglet, you are priceless. Couldn't have answered htwog better myself.

sheeplessatbbc said...

nathanb said...
I'd be very careful what I told the congregation Sunday.


Do you think they might "whack" him?? Seriously, what do you mean by this?

Amy said...

Maybe Charlie's source was right afterall.......

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sheeplessatbbc said...

Mom 4,

Ain't it so!!

More to come, stay tuned.

all2jesus said...

In the executive ranks one is almost never fired -- you accept someone's resignation. Remember that the men running BBC are business executives.

Mark Dougharty had become a severe liability. The dream issue alone was enough to undo him. Yet another falls on his sword for King Steve.

Of course, the announcement and sendoff on Sunday will be replete with appreciation. They will do everything possible to dispel the idea that he's leaving under a cloud. And it will be a lie.

Karen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MOM4 said...

There are so many lies spewing forth from the leadership, how do we know what is truth nowadays?

Oh yeah, we shine the Light of God's Holy Word on it...too bad the leadership doesn't do that too! (then they could provide all things honest to all men - what a unique idea!!!)

Karen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
imaresistor said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
"The Bellevue Career group has a retreat planned for Memorial Day weekend:"

Well, we should all know Johnny Hunt of Woodstock; and we are talking PD of course. But...the second one down on #2 is a bit comical. Everybody who is a regular on the blog should remember Dee Lauderdale. The associate pastor of Valley View he says. :) Well, don't think he told us that when he was blogging with us a few weeks back. You all remember Dee Lauderdale!!! He was the one coming in here and trying to upset everybody...and I found him on pastors.com talking with his PD buddies about all of us. He is one of the regular PD pastors on Rick Warren's website...pastors.com. Remember? He was messing with our own Dee's name...confusing everybody about that. Anyway...this retreat group is as purpose driven as it comes. And contemplative, of course is a huge part of all this now...along with emergent, new age, etc. If I had one in the 'career group' age, he/she would NOT be going.

Karen said...

mom4,

You know I love you, but we can't keep our stand pure if we talk about other people "slithering under rocks". I'm about ready to bail on this whole church thing - the tearing down of each other because we don't agree with other's positions really is getting to me. I'm really done with church if this is how it's going to be.

MOM4 said...

Karen,
Hey girl, I love you too and I will delete my post since it offends you.
(Have you checked out the bratton blog lately? They are ruthless and brutal - I guess I was just poking back..sorry.)

Karen said...

I went and told them off too! :)

nathanb said...

sheepless,

If there is another reason for him resigning, he needs to be open and honest about it.

MOM4 said...

REPOST FROM 3:19 (revised:))

Isn't it unique that to date, all of the "speculation, inuendo, rumors and gossip" brought out on this blog have proven to be truth? HMMMMM?
When it ALL comes out, reckon the what our accusers will say?

sheeplessatbbc said...

nathanb,

We don't know the reason for him resigning and what is presented to the congregation will certainly not be the truth. He will be under a "gag" order just as everyone else has been that has left, resigned!

The more to come was not about MD, but about others in leadership and truths coming out about them.

God's way and His time.

What did you mean by, I'd be very careful what I told the congregation Sunday.

Karen said...

Much better, mom! :)

Sheepless,

What would Mark lose if he doesn't sign the "nondisclosure agreement"? I just wonder under what terms he would resign. I feel bad for him, but he's has had his place in letting issues continue. I hope he gets to say what HE wants to say, not what leadership wants him to say.

It just seems odd that most of the ministers that served under Dr. Rogers are now gone to other places/ministries. Since I really don't have knowledge on this, is this a common practice? I know when I went to the 1st Communications Meeting, Steve Tucker, Derrick Calcotte, my mom and I discussed this point. Steve said that there had been plans in the works for Bob Sorrell to leave for about 2 years, but I don't know if that's true or not. It just seems like mass exodus to me; maybe it's not - like I've said all along, God can lead where He wants to and if that's what has happened in all these recent resignations, who I am to argue or speculate?

karen

Karen said...

Don't forget to read Mr. Saba's newest letter on savingbellevue.com.

karen

MOM4 said...

Karen,
I understand that Mark was to leave with the new pastor's arrival and Bob Sorrell was to step back in to get things up and running correctly. I guess someone put a wrench in those works.
Bob preached a wonderful sermon at GBC last Sunday. They are blessed to have him, we lost a good man - again.

Karen said...

Mom,

Interesting - Mark leaving wasn't discussed at all when I last spoke to Steve Tucker. He just mentioned Bob.

You have mail!

karen

MOM4 said...

Karen,
Perhaps decisions had already been made at that time.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Karen,

Who knows what Mark could lose. Maybe he could lose the 1 yr severence pkg, maybe not.

What I can assure you of without doubt, is that he will not be able to disclose anything that would be negative on leadership. He will not disclose the truth about "the dream" or what he knew about the PW disclosure to SG and, when or if, maybe he had knowledge of it for as long as SG. There could be many things that he could be threatened with that we are not privy to.

This is a leadership that lies and then lies about their lies.

Mark has looked very unhappy for a while now, if he hadn't been so involved in the lies and deceit for so long, you'd almost feel sorry for him. If he had been a man of honor and integrity he would have stood for the truth in the very beginning and much of what is happening today, would not be. Mark Sharp and his family as well as many other families would not be ripped away from their church and friends.

But then again, this is probably all in God's plan.

The more lies and coverups, the more difficult to keep them all under wraps.

The truth will eventually come out, but who knows what condition our church will be in at that time.

sheeplessatbbc said...

The letter from Bryan Miller to the deacons, sounds like Mark D. is leaving Bellevue altogether, not just resigning his position as Assoc.Pastor.

Proverbs 12:22 said...

Sheepless,

Maybe Mark cannot stay at Bellevue while we have a pastor who he knows firsthand has repeatedly lied to the congregation and put him in the position to have to lie (DREAM).

Charlie Fox said...

Charlie Fox sez, "NO COMMENT" concerning MD!!!!!!!!!!!.

Lynn said...

imaresistor said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
"The Bellevue Career group has a retreat planned for Memorial Day weekend:"

Well, we should all know Johnny Hunt of Woodstock; and we are talking PD of course. But...the second one down on #2 is a bit comical. Everybody who is a regular on the blog should remember Dee Lauderdale. The associate pastor of Valley View he says. :) Well, don't think he told us that when he was blogging with us a few weeks back. You all remember Dee Lauderdale!!! He was the one coming in here and trying to upset everybody...and I found him on pastors.com talking with his PD buddies about all of us. He is one of the regular PD pastors on Rick Warren's website...pastors.com. Remember? He was messing with our own Dee's name...confusing everybody about that. Anyway...this retreat group is as purpose driven as it comes. And contemplative, of course is a huge part of all this now...along with emergent, new age, etc. If I had one in the 'career group' age, he/she would NOT be going.

3:25 PM, April 19, 2007


Ima...I am in the career group and I am considering going on the trip just to get a first hand knowledge of whats going on down there.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Proverbs,

I understand what you are saying, but a lie is still a lie, the truth is still the truth, and no trespassing means just that, no trespassing. Mark had choices, he made the wrong ones.


If men do not start standing up for truth, Bellevue is going to continue on the same path, like a runaway train.

New BBC Open Forum said...

evan wrote:

"A quick call to the church office will confirm that MD is on vacation and has not been fired. You may take this information as confirmed."

10:52 AM, April 17, 2007


I took that check to the bank. It bounced.

MOM4 said...

be patient said...(from the bratton blog)

"First of all, I will not condone the actions of that blog by posting there so I would like to comment to all of you guys-

RESPONSE - OK, THAT'S A GOOD THING, I can do that for you.

1. NOT all of the gossip and innuendo has been true, it is just that no one remembers all the other stuff- the 30K check to DG, MD being "fired", etc.

RESPONSE:
1. Just because you believe the leadership, does not make the incident a lie. I personally know someone who was there when the authorization to cut the check to give the 30K to Donna was made. This is NOT a lie.

2. Mark is leaving not only his position, but the church as well. He is leaving under less than desirable circumstances and I feel no sympathy for him in any way. He laid his integrity on the line to lie for a man who neither cares nor makes any attempt to right the wrongs he has made. Besides, Mark is very well taken care of financially, his buddies saw to that early on.

2. Mike- you now have a "clique" and we slither!! How proud you must be!!

RESPONSE: What else would you rather I call it? A following, a cult, a band of merry men (and women)???

Let's review the definitions:

"clique n : an exclusive circle of people with a common purpose"

"slither v : To move smoothly, continuously, and effortlessly"

3. Here the go assuming the worst- MD (who they vilified for months) will now be another beloved minister who has been forced out.

You better hide and watch for that to happen - cause it ain't gonna! He should have left a LONG time ago, especially before he traded his name to perpetuate a lie.

concerned said...

Well, well,
Let's see if Mark D. gets up Sunday and speaks his heart {pre-written by someone else} it will be very flowery. However, if he gets up and begins to speak the truth and tell the good people of BBC what has been really going on bdhind closed doors, well you know what happened to Josh Manning March 25th.

nathanb said...

When Mark Dougharty leaves, he will hardly leave with any worries over money.

According to what Craig Parker and Mark Sharpe said early on, Mark Dougharty was given a whole years salary in deferred comp after Dr. Rogers retired and Mark was at the helm.

I went back to the original Josh Manning/Mark Sharpe interviews and it tells how a small group of men gave him this whole years salary.

I've checked since then and the CC booklet that was mailed out touched on deferred comp but I'm told they only told half the story.

Every staff member gets deferred comp but Dougharty was given an extra large sum that he could take with him when he left.

My question is this. Is he going to get this money when he leaves?

Does anyone know how many years he has been here?

The CC booklet stated he would get the deferred comp if he stays 10 years.

Wasn't Bob Sorrell in charge 10 years ago in 97?

Does anyone remember?

There are some interesting questions to have answered since this is stranger than fiction.

InMemphis said...

Is this the first time BBC has ever held such a retreat?

Lynn said...

inmemphis,

The career group has done a retreat every year I've been there except for 2 years ago when Katrina came through. This is the first time, to my knowledge that they've joined up with another church.

InMemphis said...

I am not crazy about the idea of getting together with other churches on trips but it might be an ok deal. I have also heard of churches that take their youth groups to Florida for camp in the summer but instead of just that one group it would be several youth groups all together and there again I am not crazy with the idea.

sickofthelies said...

All these lies are sickning. I'm done.

Tomorrow morning, I am calling the church and ending my membership there.

I will not join another church until I am ready, and I know who the pastor is going to be.

I wonder if the so-called leadership even knows if they are lying anymore. Maybe they believe their own lies.

Lynn said...

Given the situation and who's doing the speaking I'm not too keen on it myself. In fact, I'm still undecided if I am going to go our not. When I was there Sunday, it was like I was invisible in the room.

New BBC Open Forum said...

nathanb wrote:

"My question is this. Is he going to get this money when he leaves?"

They said he would get it if he's been there 10 years.

"Does anyone know how many years he has been here?"

He marked his 10-year anniversary sometime around November or December as I recall. It was just a few weeks after they announced the hiring of David Coombs, and I believe that was October 22, 2006.

Mu6MyForte said...

Wonder if they will give MD the same sort of sorry "send off" they gave JW? I do feel sorry for Ms. D - she's probably had to endure a lot and certainly hasn't looked happy in the last few months. There's no way MD is going to tell the BBC members why he's really leaving. Wouldn't be a surprise if SG had him sign a written agreement that he would lose the pay-off if he said anything negative.

Why is the question? said...

sickofthelies: What made you make the final decision?

Why is the question? said...

What is the problem with Mark D. getting the money?? Bob Sorrell got the same thing.

sickofthelies said...

why:

Because I know that they are going to put on a dog and pony show this sunday..full of LIES LIES LIES>..
and as my name implies:

I AM SICK OF THE LIES!!!

Why is the question? said...

Johnny Hunt and Brother Steve are great friends

Why is the question? said...

nathanb said: I've never heard of a Southern Baptist Church that refuses to let the membership, deacon body, or staff know what the giving is each week.


Reply: Staff and the Deacons are told just like always. Your posts are FULL of incorrect information.

concernedSBCer said...

Why the question: That's great! So you can share these figures with BBC members?

oc said...

WITQ,

Why isn't the membership allowed to know?

concernedSBCer said...

However, with regard to this: "nathanb said: I've never heard of a Southern Baptist Church that refuses to let the membership know what the giving is each week."...well, he's right on. See my previous post.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Why is the question? said...
nathanb said: I've never heard of a Southern Baptist Church that refuses to let the membership, deacon body, or staff know what the giving is each week.

Reply: Staff and the Deacons are told just like always.



Why is the question?

What does "just like always" mean?
Are the staff and Deacons given exact & precise giving figures each week or are they told in general terms, i.e. "The giving is up" Your reply leaves much for interpretation.

imaresistor said...

Karen said, " I'm really done with church if this is how it's going to be."

Reply: Karen...just catching up at this late hour reading this evening's posts. Have to say to your post mentioned above...I am sorry to say that, in my opinion, we will never know church as we once did. I think those days are gone. If anybody can find a true church, he/she is very fortunate.

imaresistor said...

lynn,

Well, good luck.

You already know my opinion.

Ima

Deacon_thats_a_Beacon said...

Mark Dougherty announces his retirement. Has anyone considered that there may well be another issue that would cast the church and current administration in a very bad light, not to mention the devistation that would be caused to reputations concerning the matter?

It is certain that there are no financial strings being pulled to keep him silent. That was well taken care of over a year ago and undoubtably the contract was iron clad. It is highly doubtful that a non-disclosure statement will be required either, nor is it needed in this instance. If it wasn't part of the contract, it won't be part of the exit strategy.

He will say all that he intends on saying concerning his retirement. The fact is he doesn't want to say too much. I will say this for him at least he has recognized his own failures and moved on without causing further controversy. One of which was the administrative handling of what has led to one mess after another at Bellevue and adopting the Clintonian philosophy of hoping that time would kill every truth.

Of course now, we have moved on to Stage II and Stage III of Clintonian politics. Which is to create the perception that problems are being resolved when the reality is you are still buying time to kill the truth. Also, it doesn't hurt to distort the truth along the way so that it becomes difficult to determine what the real truth is.

You should keep your ears peeled for the administration reaching out to resolve problems and discuss issues with Stage II & III politics in mind. This will be used to create a perception to the masses, but not accomplish anything of substance. Apperance is everything in this political chess match to them, substance is something that those that already know the truth are seeking.

As for me. This has been like rowing a boat with only one oar in the water. The harder you work and the faster you row, all you accomplish is to increase the spinning velocity.

There are some people that need to get their priorities straight and quit worrying about the petty things that have been done by those trying to bring this before the church and start worrying about the serious issues that are going on within the church.

It cause me to wonder. What are these folks going to do, when the rest of us "trouble makers" are gone and they still have severe problems. That is something that they will be faced with shortly. Very shortly, in my case.

eprov said...

Anyone ever find it amazing how God get's the blame for everything. The cliches we have learned to use border on blasphemy - God told me, God is leading me, etc., etc. Honestly most of the time I don't think we have enough spiritual insight to separate our own fleshly desires from the inclination to invoke God's name as part of a decision. Maybe it's just me but I rarely, if ever now, use His name to justify a decision. Somehow we have lost a perspective on the holiness of God. And from the pulpit no less!

Churchmouse said...

eprov said:
The cliches we have learned to use border on blasphemy - God told me, God is leading me, etc., etc. Honestly most of the time I don't think we have enough spiritual insight to separate our own fleshly desires from the inclination to invoke God's name as part of a decision.

churchmouse replies:
These cliches have made me uncomfortable for a long time. By assigning God as the originator of our ideas and desires, two fleshly purposes are accomplished. We elevate ourselves to a position of "one on One" with God, and emphasize our own spirituality. Secondly, the idea put forth becomes unassailable, because it it from God.
Thank you for posting your comment.

Karen said...

Lynn said...
Given the situation and who's doing the speaking I'm not too keen on it myself. In fact, I'm still undecided if I am going to go our not. When I was there Sunday, it was like I was invisible in the room.

9:32 PM, April 19, 2007

I just figured who you are -duh! I wouldn't spend the money just to find out some information. It may backfire on you and you'll be further villified. Not worth it, my man based on our past conversations.

karen

Karen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
concerned said...

deacon beacon,
I agree with you 100%.

SG has not shown any fruits of the Spirit since he got here and if the rest of the leadership use to show any, they stopped.

How long do you think it will take for these power angry men to start turning against each other?

How long will it take to replace every staff member that worked under Dr. Rogers? It amazes me that these people do not see what is happening.

gopher said...

Deacon_thats_a_beacon said:
"there may well be another issue that would cast the church and current administration in a very bad light, not to mention the devistation that would be caused to reputations concerning the matter?"


Could the information stated, be why at the last deacon's retreat on Saturday there were only 72 out of 180+ that showed up even though "all" deacons (active & inactive) were invited.

gopher said...

Bellevue's version of gameshow,

THE WEAKEST LINK

In the game's last round, Mark Dougharty has been voted off.

So who will be voted The Weakest Link in the next round?

A.) Phil Newberry
B.) Phil Weatherwax
C.) Joe Jernigan
D.) Webb Williams
E.) David Coombs
F.) Steve Gaines

The remaining player who advances to the final round, has a chance to receive whatever is left in the church congregation, property, and bank account.

Why is the question? said...

Deacon-thats-a-beacon posted:

Mark Dougherty announces his retirement. Has anyone considered that there may well be another issue that would cast the church and current administration in a very bad light, not to mention the devistation that would be caused to reputations concerning the matter?

Reply: Have you ever considered that you and others seem to always think there is something bad behind everything that happens at Bellevue now?


He will say all that he intends on saying concerning his retirement. The fact is he doesn't want to say too much. I will say this for him at least he has recognized his own failures and moved on without causing further controversy. One of which was the administrative handling of what has led to one mess after another at Bellevue and adopting the Clintonian philosophy of hoping that time would kill every truth.


Reply: This Clinton stuff is actually very comical. That you actually believe that Brother Steve and others at Bellevue some evil plan.

Of course now, we have moved on to Stage II and Stage III of Clintonian politics. Which is to create the perception that problems are being resolved when the reality is you are still buying time to kill the truth. Also, it doesn't hurt to distort the truth along the way so that it becomes difficult to determine what the real truth is.


Reply: Sounds like you are really into politics and conspiracy theories.

You should keep your ears peeled for the administration reaching out to resolve problems and discuss issues with Stage II & III politics in mind. This will be used to create a perception to the masses, but not accomplish anything of substance. Apperance is everything in this political chess match to them, substance is something that those that already know the truth are seeking.


Reply: Just more on this evil plan?


There are some people that need to get their priorities straight and quit worrying about the petty things that have been done by those trying to bring this before the church and start worrying about the serious issues that are going on within the church.


Reply: Petty things? There are no "petty" Sins to God. You somehow think think that God is going to overlookall the Sin on this blog and from others on your side of issues?? Those "petty" things you are talking about are Sins agaist Almighty God being shown to the whole world over the internet. They are FAR from petty.

It cause me to wonder. What are these folks going to do, when the rest of us "trouble makers" are gone and they still have severe problems. That is something that they will be faced with shortly. Very shortly, in my case.


Reply: Why don't you let us worry about that. God is in control and I am thrilled at what He is doing at Bellevue.

Are you still a Deacon and if so, why? Why make theats about leaving when this has been going on for months and months? Why have you not been long gone and serving at another church?

Have you been one of the ones on your side of the issues that have been sitting by and not making yourself and your true feelings known? You have had many opportunities to do so.

Why is the question? said...

Great Christian attitude gopher

Charlie Fox said...

witq,

Again you are focusing your attention in the WRONG direction. If you are "thrilled" with what GOD is doing at BBC, may GOD have MERCY on you.

imaresistor said...

Charlie Fox said...
"witq, Again you are focusing your attention in the WRONG direction. If you are "thrilled" with what GOD is doing at BBC, may GOD have MERCY on you."

Comment: Amen Charlie Fox!Anybody who is joyous about the state of Bellevue...well, what can I say. It is the end of the end times.

junk99mail said...

I have a question for you, "Why is the question?"

Tell me the truth ... have you posted on this blog before under another name that has been asked or told by the blog administrator here to stop posting on this blog?

Karen said...

why is the question,

Gee thanks for showing up today - posts by Deacon Beacon have shown to be 100% truthful and yet you don't believe him. Go ahead and be "thrilled". You come by this blog so infrequently and pass judgment on things you have no idea of which you speak. If you have nothing to say except "you're wrong", "that's not true" and "you don't know what you're talking about" and (the topper) "I'm thrilled with things at Bellvue", then you either are really blind to truth or you must be Donna Gaines - why else would you be so "thrilled"?

karen

Tim said...

Why?

Conspiracy?
Hmm..

I. The senior pastor and associate pastor have conspired together to kill the truth of the dream issue. Check!

I.a. The senior pastor says that there was no dream. Check!

I.b. The associate pastor says if two others staff members say he told them about this dream then he must have. Check!

I.c. Neither of the two staff ministers that were told of this dream have recanted their account of it. Check!

II. A group of four conspired together concerning the attempt to silence a deacon of the church. Check!

II.a. They conspired to revise the story to convey that they were attempting to reconcile with a brother. Check!

II.b. They conspired together to climb a 41" fence and trespass on private property! Check!

II.c. They later conspired together to create the impression that they "stepped over an itty-bitty fence". Not one has recanted this version of half-truth that was presented to the church as truth. Check!

III. The church has refused to release records as required by Tennessee State Law. Check!

III.a. The church attempted to demonize those that had requested such information in a mailing to every member of the church. Identifing by name and address those that had requested it. Check!

III.b. The church administration is on record thru recorded audio as stating that they do not care what Tennessee State law says. Check!

IV. The church issued $25,000 dollars to an apostate church. Check!

IV.a. There have been no apologies issued by anyone responsible for this travisty. Check!

IV.b. There has not been any change implemented that would prevent this from happening in the future. Check!

V. A pedophile remained on staff for a minimum of six months after the senior pastor was made aware of it. Check!

V.a. The senior pastor claims that days after being told that there were still issues concerning this minister he was relieved of duty. The fact is that it was known months before that there were still issues with him being on staff. Check!

V.b. The senior pastor blatently ignores scripture on the qualifications of a minister to be inferior to his own thoughts concerning the matter. Check!

..........
Why?

How much more do you want to know? Or do you really even care?

Perhaps someone else should continue or add to this list. It would be the most bizarre coincedence of all creation if these men had not conspired together to propegate the lies that have been told concerning these issues. You can add a portion of the deacon body and the elders (that we don't have) to the list as well.

Karen said...

gopher said...

Could the information stated, be why at the last deacon's retreat on Saturday there were only 72 out of 180+ that showed up even though "all" deacons (active & inactive) were invited.


Wow - and this event had generally been a huge deal every year. I guess 110+ deacons had better things to do, no wait - they were sick...no, they were busy with work...no, enter your own reason here as the reasons for not attending couldn't possibly be that they do not support leadership. Nah, couldn't be.

karen

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
New BBC Open Forum said...

You might be interested in the new post that's here today.

oc said...

WITQ, says, Reply: Petty things? There are no "petty" Sins to God. You somehow think think that God is going to overlookall the Sin on this blog and from others on your side of issues?? Those "petty" things you are talking about are Sins agaist Almighty God being shown to the whole world over the internet. They are FAR from petty.


OC Replies: Yeah, 'petty'. Like the 'itty bitty fence'. Interesting....

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Why is the question?

Gopher may prove to be discerning and prophetic. At the very least, he is creative.

Time will tell...

Karen said...

oc,

Gee, did you just fall off the turnip truck? :)

NASS, thanks for the link - it's a good read. And one thing from it rings true with me - you can literally feel the dicourse and stress when you step through the doors at BBC.

karen

oc said...

Karen, It was a tater truck. :)

Karen said...

oc,

Thought I heard a THUD! :P

karen

MOM4 said...

Karen,
Don't you mead SPUD:)?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Actually, I believe it was a cabbage truck. That is if we're thinking of the same truck.

socwork said...

Have you ever considered that you and others seem to always think there is something bad behind everything that happens at Bellevue now?

I wonder why Bellevue members might feel this way. Let's think about this...

I wonder if it could pertain to hearing "misrepresentations of the truth" (or lies, depending on how you look at it) from the pulpit over and over again, that with a little research have proven to be both misleading and seemingly attempts to "cover."

I wonder if it could pertain to leader(s) who although evidence strongly points to a series of serious missteps, instead of taking responsibility for their "mistakes," are currently, "playing the victim."

When a person violates your trust repeatedly, you are a fool if you keep trusting that person.

Karen said...

Everyone's a comedian today!

MOM4 said...

Karen,
Sometimes we laugh to keep from crying...

Karen said...

socwork,

You are so right - how many times can you smack a dog (not that I do that!) before he'll bite you if you raise your hand to him the next time? You are 100% right - we now have DISCERNMENT to help us determine if what we're told by BBC is truth or a lie. Why are we so suspicious? Tale of the tape, proof is in the pudding, how ever you want to phrase it, it's the same thing.

If you keep getting gobsmacked (LOVE that word!), why would you keep coming back for more?

karen

Karen said...

MOM4 said...
Karen,
Sometimes we laugh to keep from crying...

11:27 AM, April 20, 2007


You got that right - I can't tell you the times I've teared up at work while reading some of this stuff.

BTW, If I've used "Gobsmacked" in the wrong way, let me know. I just like to say it! :)

karen

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Karen,
There are some awesome days when I get "God-smacked" reading some of the wise posts on this here blog.

:o)

"Gobsmacked" - That is a fun word! Thanks, but you KNOW i have to go look it up:

It is a fairly recent British slang term: the first recorded use is only in the eighties, though verbal use must surely go back further.

The usual form is gobsmacked, though gobstruck is also found. It’s a combination of gob, mouth, and smacked. It means “utterly astonished, astounded”.

It’s much stronger than just being surprised; it’s used for something that leaves you speechless, or otherwise stops you dead in your tracks.

It suggests that something is as surprising as being suddenly hit in the face.

It’s an obvious derivation of an existing term, since gob, originally from Scotland and the north of England, has been a dialect and slang term for the mouth for four hundred years (often in insulting phrases like “shut your gob!” to tell somebody to be quiet).

It possibly goes back to the Scottish Gaelic word meaning a beak or a mouth, which has also bequeathed us the verb to gob, meaning to spit.

Another form of the word is gab, from which we get gift of the gab.

*I don't know NUTHIN' about that Gift of Gab business! LOL!

gmommylv said...

Tim,
I will add to your list the very recent "lie of ommission" that our youth minister was caught in by a courageous 19 year old,his mom,and another youth mom.
I will leave it to one of them to post any of those details ...or maybe the youth minister himself.

When confronted with the truth,these ministers we have trusted our children with for years go into their "script"....

"in my heart I know I am a man of integrity and truth"......huh????

Those words have no meaning to me anymore. They have been corrupted by this leadership.

And concerning the recent retreat not well attended.....
was this the one where emphasis on a certain book was planned??? Or was that the staff retreat???

Karen said...

tnlizzie,

Ok, then I used it right - nothing gobsmaked me more than imagining Steve G and his cohorts going over a fence with a "NO TRESSPASSING" sign on it. Yeah, that qualfies as gobsmacked.

Also, in the gobsmacked category: "why" statement that they are "thrilled" with the situation at BBC. That person really needs to get a life if this is what "thrills" them.

karen

Karen said...

amy,

If you're lurking today, email me! I wanna be friends too!

karen

Karen said...

socwork,

Email me when you get a chance - I have a request.

Thanks!

karen

Charlie Fox said...

Gobsmacked:
It means “utterly astonished, astounded”. It’s much stronger than just being surprised; it’s used for something that leaves you speechless, or otherwise stops you dead in your tracks.

Charlie Fox said...

I confess. I googled "gobsmack" just like tn_lizzie2000 did.

imaresistor said...

"it’s used for something that leaves you speechless..."

Hey guys...I needed this one long, long time ago! Thanks...better late than never.

Charlie Fox said...

imaresistor said...
"it’s used for something that leaves you speechless..."

Hey guys...I needed this one long, long time ago! Thanks...better late than never.

REPLY:

I HEARD THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tim said...

I suppose that at the end of each item, I should have used "gobsmack" in place of "check". It would have been appropriate.

sickofthelies said...

......waiting for bbc to get back from lunch so that I can cancel my 14 year membership......

Only a computer-generated man answers during lunch. He was not programmed to discuss my membership with me :)

sickofthelies said...

Just to think:

MD and I are leaving at the same time..

WHODUH thunk it?

Reckon they will give me a few minutes this sunday to talk about my tenure at bbc?

Tim said...

Response to Why.

It sounds to me that "deacon" may have as much or more knowledge of the situation than you do. It also seems that although they have been quiet as far as the blog goes that they might have attempted to work within the system (if one exist).

To compare political tactics to what has been displayed by this administration is an extremely accurate account of events. Long ago it became apprant to me that politics were more prevelant than Scripture.

I wonder as well. When all the "trouble makers" have left, who will be left to blame? The severe problems that are within the church will still be there. There just won't be anyone willing to believe that they should be addressed. This is when things will really begin to spiral out of control. A people that have accepted what has taken place thus far will not hesitate to accept anything else.

Power absolutely corrupts men. Absolute power corrupts men completely.

WatchingHISstory said...

Luke 12:48 (King James Version)

"... For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, OF HIM THEY WILL ASK THE MORE."

Tim writes: "Power absolutely corrupts men. Absolute power corrupts men completely."

Just a thought: We focus much on the corrupttion of leadership but could it be the committment of the followers for the corruption? It seems that followers will ask the more until the leaders feel their corruptions are acceptable.

If Bellevue is congregationally ruled should it have been asking for that rule a long time ago? If the leadership is in error and the congregation is silent then aren't they ruling by silence.

Could there be a distructive force with both parties to unconsciously destroy the other?

Does this rule come from God? Or does it come in the absence of God's rule?

Just some thoughts.

Karen said...

I think watchinghistory just gobsmacked us all! Your post was very profound and it is still causing me to think!

Thanks!

karen

nathanb said...

why the question?

I would hate to see what you said about Jesus getting upset in the Temple because they had their mind on money instead of God.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Charlie Fox said...
witq,

Again you are focusing your attention in the WRONG direction. If you are "thrilled" with what GOD is doing at BBC, may GOD have MERCY on you.

10:36 AM, April 20, 2007


Amen! Charlie

Even Steve Gaines should be grieved at what is going on at Bellevue.

imaresistor said...

I am just thrilled! Now...after all of these months I know my place. Right smack dab in the middle of gobsmack. No doubt about it Charlie! How about that!

imaresistor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
imaresistor said...

sheepless...

There should not be a soul left standing at Bellevue with any joy in his/her heart. These people should not have any peace nor be able to sleep at night until they have repented. They have literally slaughtered the sheep.

concernedSBCer said...

eprov said: "Maybe it's just me but I rarely, if ever now, use His name to justify a decision. Somehow we have lost a perspective on the holiness of God. And from the pulpit no less!"

Many of our "sayings" do border on blesphemy, imho. "Awesome"....."It's a God thing".......

I do know that God has led me in specific directions, but many times I don't say it, I just do it. And you are right....it seems as if many use "God told" as an excuse to get out of something.

just thinkin'

concernedSBCer said...

I'm just catching up today, but Why is the question: You sound very familiar....of course, that's JUST MY OPINION.

Charlie Fox said...

imaresistor said...
I am just thrilled! Now...after all of these months I know my place. Right smack dab in the middle of gobsmack. No doubt about it Charlie! How about that!

REPLY:
If anybody can relate to gobsmack or even gobstruck, it be us.

gmommylv said...

And "upside down" is Mike Bratton....

imaresistor said...

I tell you what...I absolute cannot wait to meet you guys! I know without any doubt I am going to be more gobsmacked that I have ever been gobsmacked in my entire life! And gobstruck too Charlie!

concernedSBCer said...

Ima and all: Hey, that can be our secret password!!!
*knock, knock*
Password?
GOBSMACKED!!!

Please enter.....

See, isn't that fun!!!!

(by the way- thanks Tn_Lizzie and Charlie for the definition!)

michelle mann said...

Gmommylv - I know for a fact that 'upside down' is not Mike Bratton. He always uses his name, never a screen name.

junk99mail said...

At 2:52 PM, April 20, 2007
michelle mann said...
Gmommylv - I know for a fact that 'upside down' is not Mike Bratton. He always uses his name, never a screen name.

Hello, Michelle.
I don't know Mike like you do, but I do concur. I don't believe Mike would ever use an anonymous screen name. We know how he feels about that. It borders on an obsession! :)

WatchingHISstory said...

The Amplified Bible says: "..and of him to whom men entrust much, they will REQUIRE AND DEMAND ALL THE MORE."

Chanel 40 TBN is presently televising their TV fundraising and shameless tactics are being employed to enlist phone pledges.

My opinion is that Paula White stands head and shoulders over the others (maybe because she is so attractive). She is articulate and her words and gesters flow so freely.

But who is really at fault? Those who feed her the pledges!

She pleases Paul and Jan's efforts to buy more religious programming. The pledgers expect to reap rewards and so they pledge more and Paula produces greater revelation knowledge.

It is an endless destructable hierarchial cycle. Either the pledger is destroyed (usually) or the preacher (eventually) but they will be beaten, accordingly, with stripes!

Unfortunately this hierarchial cycle is accepted as gospel by most modern American churches.

gmommylv said...

Thanks Michele,
I know he usually does and wants everyone else to.It isn't a major issue for me.
I have no regard for their opinions.
I just found it interesting that they both made a habit of using the phase "a person such as yourself" to try and demean the person they were addressing.

No matter who either are....they are full of arrogance. Most of us have had all of that we can stomach.

Karen said...

gmommy,

Just so you know - Mike wouldn't post anonymously due to the fact that he's always asked for people to come out from behind screen names. Also, Michelle is Mike's sister. Thusly and like so, huh Michelle? :)

karen

Karen said...

watchinghistory said...

My opinion is that Paula White stands head and shoulders over the others (maybe because she is so attractive). She is articulate and her words and gesters flow so freely.

I like it when she really gets to going - she sounds like she's gonna fall out from an asthma attack! :)

karen

Lynn said...

BTW, The bulletin for this sunday is up and in it theres an announcement that next Sunday afternoon Gaines is going to be holding a book signing outside of the bookstore.

Though couldn't Gaines come up with a better title than "When God Comes to Church"? I was on Barnes and Noble's website and did a search for that title and found another book that was published 7 years ago by Raymond C. Ortlund that has the exact same title!

Lynn said...

"She pleases Paul and Jan's efforts to buy more religious programming. The pledgers expect to reap rewards and so they pledge more and Paula produces greater revelation knowledge."

I make it a rule not to trust someone with purple hair! :p

concernedSBCer said...

Lynn: As Dr. Looney would say, "Very wise, Lynn, Very wise."

Lin said...

eprov said...
Anyone ever find it amazing how God get's the blame for everything. The cliches we have learned to use border on blasphemy - God told me, God is leading me, etc., etc. Honestly most of the time I don't think we have enough spiritual insight to separate our own fleshly desires from the inclination to invoke God's name as part of a decision. Maybe it's just me but I rarely, if ever now, use His name to justify a decision. Somehow we have lost a perspective on the holiness of God. And from the pulpit no less!
8:24 AM, April 20, 2007

Bingo. Let's just say the Word tells us to 'test' the spirits for a reason. And we test using Scripture. (1 John 4)

God speaks through scripture. That is why He gave us the Word. How else can we know what is truth? After all, Benny Hin and Paul Crouch claim that God tells them things, too.

Lin said...

Why is the question? said...

Great Christian attitude gopher

9:53 AM, April 20, 2007


What is a ‘Christian Attitude’? Please explain what you think that is.

imaresistor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
WatchingHISstory said...

A United Methodist Church Sunday School class' website says:
Luke 12:42-48 "The faithful servant will be rewarded" (only 42-44 says that)
Luke 12:48 "The Lord requires much from those who have received much and requires much more from those who have received much more." (this is a parable, as Peter understood it, and is not refering to The Lord but a lord and not even a lord but men)

This interpretation suggest that the church should reach the wealthier people. This has been a successful effort by much of mega-churches of fundamentalism. Men create wealth that God is not even interested in. God blesses faithful stewards by personally making their rule over what they have.

sickofthelies said...

Anyone know who David Ripley is at BBC?

According to Someone who shall remain nameless, DC called him in and fired him this week on the spot.

Anyone else know about this ?

sickofthelies said...

ya gotta love that David Coombs...what a great guy.

concernedSBCer said...

The thing you gotta love about the leadership....you always know where you stand........

gmommylv said...

SOTL,
let me check on that about DR. My very good friends are close to him and see him often...I am not aware he works at BBC....he has a ministry of his own.....but may work for BBC also.
He is definitely a scripturally sound and strong believer.
I will check.

concernedSBCer said...

gmommy: You've got mail.

socwork said...

karen,

I e-mailed you.

Charlie Fox said...

It appears that slowly but surely, one at a time, heads are coming out of the sand.

Charlie Fox said...

What I find MOST INTERESTING is that some of the youth are seeing and understanding the problems BEFORE the adults do. Or is it that the adults just won't admit that major problems exist?

concernedSBCer said...

Charlie: I have noticed that too! I talk to people that think on the whole youth are shallow but there have been some that have seen this pretty quickly. Is it their finely tuned sense of fairness? (As in..."That's not fair!!!) Or have they not been completely brainwashed yet with PC? Well, God Bless Them!

Why is the question? said...

To clarify, I posted that I was thrilled at what GOD was doing at Bellevue. What is wrong with that? God is working in the lives of many at Bellevue. Many are praying like they have never prayed before. Many are being broken and closer to Christ than they have ever been. Many are joining the church. Most important than all, many are coming to know Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

Why is the question? said...

gmommylv said: Tim,
I will add to your list the very recent "lie of ommission" that our youth minister was caught in by a courageous 19 year old,his mom,and another youth mom.
I will leave it to one of them to post any of those details ...or maybe the youth minister himself.

When confronted with the truth,these ministers we have trusted our children with for years go into their "script"....

"in my heart I know I am a man of integrity and truth"......huh????


Reply: Can you please explain what in the world you are taking about? First paragraph?

Rod Almondmartanti said...

Has anyone figured out why mark d. is leacing ? Is it true he is leaving on his own? If that is true, then he must have plans to either retire or another "assignment". However, one cannot help but wonder if this is one of those "fake" resignatioons and another firing. It sure smells fishy to me.

Rod Almondmartanti said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Why is the question? said...

imaresistor said: sheepless...

There should not be a soul left standing at Bellevue with any joy in his/her heart. These people should not have any peace nor be able to sleep at night until they have repented. They have literally slaughtered the sheep.


Reply: That is 100% against scripture. We are ALWAYS to have joy in the Lord. Always!! The Lord is always Good and I will Always praise Him. Happy and Joy and very different also.

Charlie Fox said...

Rod Almondmartanti said...
Has anyone figured out why mark d. is leacing ? Is it true he is leaving on his own? If that is true, then he must have plans to either retire or another "assignment". However, one cannot help but wonder if this is one of those "fake" resignatioons and another firing. It sure smells fishy to me.

REPLY:
FWIW, I got 2 emails this past MONDAY saying that he had been FIRED.

Charlie Fox said...

witq,

Again you are focusing your attention in the WRONG direction.

Lwood said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sickofthelies said...

why is the question:

And many are leaving. Many have been wounded by the thugs that are running that horrible place.

Why is the question? said...

Charlie: And how is that?

Rod Almondmartanti said...

Excuse me, but this is amazing. Mark D. seemed to be extremely loyal to steve. When he is no longer of any use, he's out.

That should be a good lesson in having our loyality to be with God first and foremost, and not with a demanding man. Even though Mark D was loyal to steve, he got fired when steve was done with him. Wow.

I guess it is more benificial to have the "righ and famous" around you and on staff.

I wonder if Joe J. will be let go. I wonder if all the old staff will be fired eventually.

sickofthelies said...

rod,

You make a good point. They will have spent their integrity on a man that will throw them overboard, instead of standing for Jesus in the first place.

I would rather be out of a job, WITH Jesus, than out of a job WITHOUT Jesus.

Rod Almondmartanti said...

If Mark is unhappy with his leaving Bellevue, why wouldn't he say something publically? Or did he sign one of those, so called covenants? But even so, I would think you'd figure out that they are a covenant of man and not God.

Lin said...

WITQ: Reply: That is 100% against scripture. We are ALWAYS to have joy in the Lord. Always!! The Lord is always Good and I will Always praise Him. Happy and Joy and very different also. "

You may want to check out Hebrews 10: 26-31. Willfully sinning when knowing the truth of the Word is serious business...nothing to be joyful about. So either your pastor does not know scripture or he does.. and ignores it. Which is it?

Rod Almondmartanti said...

You are so right, sickofthelies, I have often said that if any man would stand up and speak out for Truth and what is pleasing to the Lord, he need not worry about a job. God will take care of him. Look at how the Lord is taking care of Dr. Spradllin.

God alone is the majority. He is our defence and He will take care of those who stand up for Him and righteousness.

Rod Almondmartanti said...

Mark took a lot of hits for steve, but that is what he deserves for doing that.

Why is the question? said...

lin: There are people on this blog that willfully Sin every day on this blog.

Rod Almondmartanti said...

I can't help but wonder if this is a vendetta against mark for not keeping quiet about "the dream" of the demon possessed man.

I mean, mark was his fence climbing buddy!

Rod Almondmartanti said...

I'm sorry, this all just blows my mind. I cannot really believe this is happening, and yet it certainly is happening. How on earth is he getting away with all of this?

It reminds me of the saying that goes something like this: When they came for the .........., I said nothing, and when they came for the ...............I kept silent, and when they came for the ................ I kept my peace, but then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out.

How can a church the size Bellevue once was, have so very little of the leaders and those in authority and DEACONS and yet no one speaks out????? Are we afraid of something? what exactly? What are you decons fearful of that is to be feared more than the Lord?

sickofthelies said...

Rod,

There have been conversations recently between the youth leaders that I once had much respect for and some of the members.

The youth leaders have been such a disappointment to many of us. They have lied thru omission. They have avoided telling the truth as they know it. They basically have covered for SG.

What is going to happen to them when SG fires them anyway? They will then be without a job, but even worse, without their integrity.

I just don't understand it. I have faced so many thigs in my life that I have depended on Jesus to get me thru, and he has NEVER failed me!!

When I find he's all i have, i find he's all i need!!!!!!

It appears to me that when the youth leaders were put to the test, they have failed. They have not set the example that I had hoped they would.

Lin said...

lin: There are people on this blog that willfully Sin every day on this blog.

10:01 PM, April 20, 2007

Would everyone on this blog that is a pastor and harbored a pedophile minister, please leave. Thanks.

Lin said...

Hey guys,

maybe 'administrative pastor' and 'associate pastor' are one too many pastors at that level.

concernedSBCer said...

lin: Oh, good! I get to stay! Whew!

Dr. Bill Loney said...

lin, concerned,

Do I have to leave? or can I stay, even though I recently suffered serious, but non-life threatening injuries in a tragic goat-goring accident in my hometown's "Semi-annual Running of the Goats"?

FYI, me & the goat had a meeting to iron things out...needless to say, it was a rather one-sided discussion...what can I say, I didn't feel like talking. Anyhow, he did apologize...when I asked how he felt about goring me, he said "baaaaahhhhdddd"...you are a goat among goats Ol' Ben, a goat among goats. See you in 6 months!

William T. Loney, M.D.

concernedSBCer said...

Doc: We need you to stay....besides, you don't meet lin's requirements to leave...you aren't a pastor who has harbored a pedophile.

See, you are welcome to stay!

Hope they had spam for you in the hospital!

all2jesus said...

Folks,

What I'm see here is a lot of speculation about MD's departure and a lot of shocked amazement in reaction to that speculation, leading to further speculation. It's feeding on itself and we need to stop it.

The truth will come out in time. MD had become a liability both to Team Gaines and himself. Whether he realized it was time to go or was bounced by DC (don't kid yourself thinking it was SG) is almost irrelevant.

Just my $.02

oc said...

lin, concernedsbcer, doc,socwork, junk, charlie, nass. and all.


I get to stay too! All I did was beg for a stinkin' car!

oc said...

And SOTL.

How hard did you really work to get me a car? I am still walkin'.

Lindon said...

"Do I have to leave? or can I stay, even though I recently suffered serious, but non-life threatening injuries in a tragic goat-goring accident in my hometown's "Semi-annual Running of the Goats"? "

You are just harmless "quack". :o)

Dr. Bill Loney said...

I would like to apologize for the lack of daily nuggets to those who have requested. I have found that serious, but non-life threatening injuries suffered in a tragic goat-goring accident in my hometown's Semi-annual Running of the Goats do not heal overnight. With that said, my Tripe Poltice has afforded me a more expedient recovery, (and a tasty snack from time to time).

Anyway, the pressure and responsibility of being a highly trained medical expert and provider of daily nuggets has been a taxing dilemma in my infirmed condition. Thankfully, I have been visited by my ex-minister, the well-known pulpiteer (and bail bondsman)Al Wright. His clergical pontifications and double latte' caffiene-induced, maniacal, semi-violent rants are as soothing as pickle juice popcicle on a hot summer day:

"Brother Dr. Loney, sometimes we have to be put on our backs before we'll look up, and if a donkey can rebuke a prophet, then who's to say that a goat can't be used to speak to a man who lives in a retro/lawn chair furnished upstairs garage apartment, eats things that turns the guts of buzzards, who has hygiene practices comparable to orphaned 3-toed South American tree sloths, has legally and morally questionable medical credentials, and drives an emissioncontrolless, uninsured, blinkerless, windowless, mechanation of death, (that is, when it's not in hock to finance his latest bonefish smoothie racket)? But seriously, come on, a goat!?...what do they top out at, like 4 mph?"

Balm for the soul/(bail bondsman) Wright, Balm for the soul!

William T. Loney, M.D.

Dr. Bill Loney said...

As a highly trained medical expert whose services have been retained from time to time by the ministerial staff, I suppose that I may be the next to be 'let go'.

If so, I will depart quietly and in a manner that will honor the great Loney name, and will request no more than one year's supply of canned meat products as severance compensation(or should I ask for more?). I know, that when I give my (pre-written/staff provided)speech(will someone take a poleroid for me?), there is likely to be a tidal wave of sorrow and despondency that hasn't been seen since the '84 recall of mustard packed sardines(please no picketing at the entrance)...but be of good courage; do not weep for BillLoney. Us Loneys are known for our bouncebackatility, our cantfireusw/oyougettingyourhousetp'd, if you would...you can't keep a good Loney down...when the goin' gets tough, the Loneys get growin'...shave and a haircut, two bits!...the moon aint made of cheese...(insert another appropriate cliche here)...and as my Mexico City Community College Medical School cyber-professor, the world renowned and highly esteemed Dr. Nachos Grande, once told me:

"Senor Loney, you can't get blood from a turnip...unless you have like, really really creepy turnips".

Sunlit sparkles of hope Dr. Grande, Sunlit sparkles.

William T. Loney, M.D.

(offline, as it is time to change the tripe poltice...GOOD NIGHT SOUTH MEMPHIS...MAKE SURE AND FLOSS!!)

MusicGuy said...

imaresistor said...
sheepless...

There should not be a soul left standing at Bellevue with any joy in his/her heart. These people should not have any peace nor be able to sleep at night until they have repented. They have literally slaughtered the sheep.

2:21 PM, April 20, 2007



OK, so now not one single person who still attends Bellevue can have any joy in their life whatsoever? This comment really makes no sense to me. Aren't we ALL in need of repentance every single day since "All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God"?

Teri said...

Could someone please elaborate on the youth minister / youth leaders' lie(s) of omission?
Please?
Thank you!

sheeplessatbbc said...

gopher said...
Bellevue's version of gameshow,

THE WEAKEST LINK

In the game's last round, Mark Dougharty has been voted off.

So who will be voted The Weakest Link in the next round?

A.) Phil Newberry
B.) Phil Weatherwax
C.) Joe Jernigan
D.) Webb Williams
E.) David Coombs
F.) Steve Gaines

The remaining player who advances to the final round, has a chance to receive whatever is left in the church congregation, property, and bank account.

9:49 AM, April 20, 2007


gopher,

My money's on E & F as a brutal showdown between the two, with the grand prize going to E!! (before any rumors get started, I'm not a bettin' man)

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