If this doesn't infuriate you, I don't know what will. Read one staff minister's account of the state of things at Bellevue today.
Here's an excerpt:
"I am one on staff who does not agree with the current direction of our beloved church home. I want everyone to know that there are a small group of us on staff, ministers and staffers alike, that are working to get a heart to heart meeting with Dr. Gaines to have our say about how we feel concerning the recent issues concerning Bellevue Baptist Church. We are encouraged that this may be happening in the near future.
"However, we have recently been informed that we are not allowed to have any meetings with Dr. Gaines alone. We have been informed that Mr. David Coombs must be involved in any meetings concerning the direction and future of Bellevue Baptist Church. Most of us do understand this from a managerial standpoint, as Mr. Coombs is Administrative Pastor. It is still somewhat of a strange consideration as we reflect on our past experiences with Dr. Rogers and his ministry."
Remember to sign the Petition to Call Bellevue Baptist Church into an Open Business Meeting and forward the link to your fellow Bellevue members.
646 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 646 Newer› Newest»Martin Luther
Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation
(1520)
The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.
First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.
Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.
Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...
Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.
....
... for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . .
If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .
Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.
oc
" But, they didn't count on people like you and others who have discernment and do know a man of God when they see one."
...and yet no one discerned a pedophile for 17 years as a "man of God"
Watching: I have talked to people who had discernment concerning PW; I've talked to others that liked him. I know people who had red flags about SG when the word first starting circulating about him; others it took longer. I really wish I could understand your point about PW. It seems to me you are saying because people didn't "just know it" they somehow weren't in tune with the Holy Spirit. Fact of the matter is that there were several who DID know about PW.....not only do I not understand how PW could sleep at night and look in the mirror each day, I'm also clueless how Mrs. PW could to. However, I have no reservations regarding others, especially others who are not here to answer our questions and concerns.
allofgrace said...
"watching,
Brother I don't know what's going on these days, but you seem to have departed from the demeanor which you exhibited when you first appeared on my blog. I don't understand why your focus is so intent on all that's wrong at BBC or the SBC. Understand, I agree that things are in a mess, but to lay all that's wrong with both institutions at the feet of Adrian Rogers is just wrong. As far as the SBC is concerned and the fact that it's been overrun with CGM philosophy, cannot be laid at the feet of AR. You're going to have to go back a lot further to see what set this denomination up for that...about 100 yrs. It was around that time that the SBC began to be led toward a more experience-oriented theology, and the denomination itself was seen as something to be promoted. As for BBC, while I will readily admit that I was often at variance with Dr. Rogers on some theological points, I never doubted for an instant his integrity, his love for Christ, his family and Christ's church. Dr. Rogers, just like you and I and every other human being who's ever lived, are not afforded the ability to see around corners, so to say that he "should" have seen what was coming is ludicrous. Even the most discerning person on Earth cannot see all things...if that were true, then God would have to give up His throne, which ain't gonna happen. The current BBC by-laws can only suffice when a man of integrity occupies the pulpit, and is surrounded by men of the same character. In some sense, I guess he may have done BBC a disservice by not strengthening those by-laws before his departure, but then again these are the same by-laws in place under Drs. Pollard, and Lee, and presented no problems. I agree that there are many BBCers who worshiped and in some sense still worship at the feet of AR, and that I do not agree with, but neither do I agree with besmirching his character, when he is not here to defend himself..."
Response:
Amen
tn lizzie,
I appreciate the heads up but fill me in....I wasn't going to email either one.....
did I not read one of their posts??
I knew last night who the bad guys were....including watching who went back to his spooky beginnings.
Manipulative people are predictable.
Thanks for watching our backs!
Watching,
Did PW molest someone in your family...or you???
What is your deal. You make very little sense.
What is your bottom line....the real point you want to make?
Why are some calling watching Mr.Page?????
Insanity is so confusing!!
wh said...
"...and yet no one discerned a pedophile for 17 years as a "man of God"
Only the Holy Spirit provides discernment, iF HE did not reveal it to anyone, it would have been impossible for us to discern the sin that PW was covering. I honestly believe that the Lord blinded the eyes of many in order to bring this particular sin and many others into the light for such a time as this. I believe that he also took Dr Rogers home in order to grow His sheep, because if Dr Rogers were here right now, we would be standing behind him as he did battle for us. Now we are on our own knees with our hearts splayed before a Holy God for intercession and instruction and strength. There is a time for everything, the pedophile's time was not at hand to be revealed until now.
WH, you need to stop attacking the workings of a Holy God, nothing happens without a reason, but the timing is His and His alone, regardless of who you try to blame.
Watching,
Did PW molest someone in your family...or you???
What is your deal. You make very little sense.
What is your bottom line....the real point you want to make?
Why are some calling watching Mr.Page?????
Insanity is so confusing!!
watching said, oc said,
" But, they didn't count on people like you and others who have discernment and do know a man of God when they see one."
watching said,...and yet no one discerned a pedophile for 17 years as a "man of God"
12:16 PM, April 30, 2007
Reply: Why didn't you discern it, oh spiritual one? And if you did not, what does that say about you, with regards of your spiritual demands and qualifications? And if you did discern it and did nothing, again, what does that say about you?
PS, not expecting a reasonable answer. Not from you, anyway.
For anyone wanting to know what's happened at Bellevue:
http://intergritydoescount.com/faq.html
Dear Watching: Having a bad day? I am still amazed by your postings last night and today. You claim to have been a pastor for over 25 years. I am really beginning to wonder. You also say you are 60 years old as that means something. Well I just turned 61. You now bring in this discernment thing.
Last night you mentioned "glad the cycle was broken." I challenged you on that one. You just ignored it completely. For us victims there is no 'CYCLE' to break as you put it. We are just trying to survive.
Mr. Page, you exhibit very little understanding of this evil crime. Religion has very little to do with it. I challenge you to to do some homework. There are many sites on the web that can help give you some better understanding of this sick, perverted, horrible crime. If you would email me I would be more than glad to share them with you.
Trust me, I wish I could discern a pedophile. And is not because I lack some spiritual gift as you imply. It is best I can't because I might be in jail now.
And when you continue to show your ignorance of this crime by many of your statements, you further hurt innocent victims that are trying to deal with their pain and hurt. You are implying there is something still wrong with us or lacking. Let me make this clear, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH US! That is why you are seeing gmommylv, STOL amd myself going after you. I have email from other victims that can't post and they are furious with you and have begged me to jump in here.
Please let it go.
David Brown
gmommylv,
According to his profile, watchingHISstory is named Charles Page.
concernedformerstaffer@hotmail.com is the e-dress (is this a word?) for the folks at "Bellevue Baptist Church - True stories from our lives."
I don't know who is checking the mail at bellevuestaffer@gmail.com, but this has red flags all over it. I was just cautioning you to NOT send your e-dress to them.
"Insanity is so confusing!!"
hee hee ~ guilty as charged, Ma'am!
concerned
" It seems to me you are saying because people didn't "just know it" they somehow weren't in tune with the Holy Spirit. Fact of the matter is that there were several who DID know about PW....."
Yes I am saying that and, concerned, I am not wanting to fight or just go on arguing with you but I have struggled with this for a while. I do not like speaking out against AR and I know you don't want to hear me speak out but you seem to be seriously asking me honest questions.
We need to be so filled with the Holy Spirit and aware that one second without the Spirit's help could jepordize everything around us for years to come and hurt the very ones we care for.
Peter was informed about A & S's sin by the Holy Ghost. How much more do we need to be filled and obedient every moment. This is not just about AR but you and me. In this day and time of information overload we need to hear the voice of God and not expect that SG or AR will hear for us and tell us what to do.
I have made a leap of faith in my trust of the Holy Spirit in the last two years. Two years ago I prayed earnestly for the Lord to make me bold for him and tell everyone I see about Christ and with zeal and abandonment I have been obedient, not perfect but obedient.
So I am thrust into a situation in which I am not popular but God is showing me how much He detest any degree of self-determination we may have that keeps us from fully trusting him. Self-determination is not just a problem for people who we don't like but is found in the very best of people who are so lovable. Infact it may be these people who give God the most difficult time!!!
Now if as you say there were people who knew about the pedophile and did not inform AR about it then they deserve the awful wrath of God and their sleep should be disturbed severely.
This I find easier to believe that there were people all along who knew and have sit by silent while Bellevue is distroyed. I pray that sudden swift distruction would come on them. (the same swift destruction that some of you would like to come on me) :)
That is the first time that I have ever done that simely face thing!
db
"Mr. Page, you exhibit very little understanding of this evil crime. Religion has very little to do with it."
oookkkk!!
there is a big separation between religion and reality . . .
Watching
Eleven apostles - Including Peter -spent three years with Judas and did not discern that he would betray the Son of God. Or God hid it from them. But either way they were in the dark. Perhaps you don't think God can or will blind people to certain things for his good pleasure.
John the Baptist had doubts if he had properly discerned who Jesus was and went so far as to send his disciples to ask "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"
Drop the AR discernment line. That dog won’t hunt.
tn
gmommylv,
According to his profile, watchingHISstory is named Charles Page.
Was this a sudden revelation? How did you ever find out about me? Please don't tell anyone I live in Collierville.
Tennessee . .Collierville, Tennessee. Close to Mississippi on the south and Fayette Co on the east.
watching,
You have expected so much from others, and you have many haughty words. Ignorant, hurtful words. And I notice that you do not listen well, to me nor to others. Well, here are some Words for you. You will be glad to know that they didn't come from me, or from any of the other spiritually decrepit believers on this blog. They didn't come from me, but I wish I could claim credit. I hope you will listen to this Someone else.So,with that in mind, (excuse my low spiritual status and less than holy phrasing), can you dig this?
Luke 11:46 and Matthew 23. Study carefully.
Oh, and please pray for those of us who are lowly in knowlege and lack your understanding and compassion.
OC.
ATTENTION BLOGGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WATCHINGHISSTORY IS A CERTIFIABLE TROLL WITH SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS. THE ONLY WAY TO HANDLE HIM IS TO IGNORE HIM.PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mom
WH, you need to stop attacking the workings of a Holy God, nothing happens without a reason, but the timing is His and His alone, regardless of who you try to blame.
So what is the point for you posting here?
Watching History,
I don't even know where to begin- you have my head spinning.
From what I gather, you believe that if the people who knew Paul Williams for the last 17 years were truly filled with the Holy Spirit, they would have intrinsically known he had raped his child just by having a conversation with him, or observing his actions at work?
Are we to presume our Holy Spirit levels go up and down based on our human condition? Or, that we are powerful enough to alter the course of events based on how well we are in tune with God?
Is this a guilty dog barking? I was answering a question, and I prayed for Mr. Page more than watching...
Down, boy! What good is a "watchdog" who cries "wolf"? You're barking up the wrong tree.
Sorry, Charlie.
Thank you for the reminder.
tn lizzie,
I was not saying you are the insanity!!!
tn
"Even a dog growls when his master is attacked."
Remind me, who is your master in this sentence?
Charlie said, ATTENTION BLOGGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WATCHINGHISSTORY IS A CERTIFIABLE TROLL WITH SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS. THE ONLY WAY TO HANDLE HIM IS TO IGNORE HIM.PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry,Charlie. No. We in this now. Gloves off.
amy
From what I gather, you believe that if the people who knew Paul Williams for the last 17 years were truly filled with the Holy Spirit, they would have intrinsically known he had raped his child just by having a conversation with him, or observing his actions at work?
No, no way that we would know it by conversation or observation. that would make us a psychiarist or counselor. No. The Holy Spirit would just say to us to tell him, "why are you lying to the Holy Ghost?"
Are we to presume our Holy Spirit levels go up and down based on our human condition? Or, that we are powerful enough to alter the course of events based on how well we are in tune with God?
NO, God is powerful enough to alter human events. Elijah didn't start or stop the rains, God did!!
But his prayers brought a response.
wh,
to rebuke you in Jesus' name - get thee behind me...
Dearn Watch:
Last night you posted the following: "Many victims break the cycle and are healed by a loving God. Your testimony supports that and I praise God." That was in response to a previous post of mine.
I don't know that my testimony has broken any cycle. Would you please explain to me and the rest of us ignorant people what you mean by "many victims break the cycle"???
This is the third time I have asked you about this but you seem to choose not to acknowledge it or you are just going to ignore it.
It is important to us victims to understand what cycle we might be in, on or under. You seem to be the expert on "cycles."
Mr. Page I am waiting. No free rides today. Sorry but you have no idea how hurtful you have been to so many.
David Brown
watching,
Seriously, what is your point? Will you ever get to it?
david brown,
Don't hold your breath. If it requires real thought, he won't answer. Ask him about dogma, he can spew that.
oc
Interesting Mt 23, As many on this blog refer to AR in the same sense as the Sadducees refer to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (later all the prophets) as dead, ceasing to exist. They didn't believe in the ressurrection. Mt 22:34
The Pharisees heard Jesus put the Sadducees to silence. and so Mt 23 unfolds.
Isn't it interesting that many speak of AR as dead in a grave unable to defend himself. Jesus said that He had spoken with Abraham and Abraham rejoiced to see his day. This shocked the Sadducees and Pharisees.
The bodiless spirit of AR lives on and we are conversing with the living God he stands before presently.
I surmise that you are conversing with the memories of AR and what AR taught you to say much in the same way as the Jews did in Jesus' day with the laws of Moses.
We need to converse as those who know the voice of the living God and that dispels hypocricy legalism and speculations.
dearn David
I bow to your knowledge of sexual abuse and any attempts on my part to explain what I may have meant about "cycles" will futher hurt others and I don't want to do that.
MY simple solution would be to put the pedophile and anyone who assisted in covering up the sin in jail and a small start would begin stopping something. I hope that dosen't hurt anyone.
oc
first we have separation of religion and reality
now we have separation of real thought and dogma
dumbing down religion and dogma
exalting reality and real thought
the result is we don't need God after all.
Which is about the way it is in reality. Wow!!! Real thought!!!
What I would like to know is why 'watchinghistory' didn't call anyone at Bellevue and let us know what was going on with PW? I realize that 'watchinghistory' may not have been as in tune with the Holy Spirit 17 years ago as he/she is today but as soon as he/she did get in tune I am sure it was revealed to him/her about PW. Therefore, 'watchinghistory' is also responsible for harboring a pedophile at Bellevue even though not a member. I wonder if the DHS knows about watchinghistory's harboring of pedophiles and who knows whatever else he/she may know but isn't saying. You, watchinghistory, are laughable as well as totally missing the teachings of scripture regarding how God speaks to believers. You have also set yourself up as the judge and the jury regarding our former pastor's walk with God. I do not believe you should be judging another's servant the way you are doing.
bwx2
Perhaps I do think God can or will blind people to certain things for his good pleasure.
sf
I do not believe you should be judging another's servant the way you are doing.
Would it be wrong for me to judge SG the way I am doing?
watching,
Man, you need some help. You said, I surmise that you are conversing with the memories of AR and what AR taught you to say much in the same way as the Jews did in Jesus' day with the laws of Moses.
We need to converse as those who know the voice of the living God and that dispels hypocricy legalism and speculations.
Response: You have no idea of what you are talking about, I have never sat under the teaching of AR, though I know of it and respect it. And, spiritual big shot, no one except the Word has taught me what to say. You, sir, have become spiritually arrogant,and ignorant, puffed up with your own understanding of the Scriptures, and you have made your dogma your god. I am not assuming that, you proved it by ignoring,dismissing, misapplying and redirecting the passages offered to you to consider. You have now proved to everyone who sees this that you are out to correct the rest of the world, and yet you do not discern the illness within you. Look again, the passages I gave you may apply. Hmmm...Maybe to you?
sf
"You, watchinghistory, are laughable as well as totally missing the teachings of scripture regarding how God speaks to believers."
Please correct my understanding. You can do me and everyone on this blog a great service.
It's your 15 minutes.
"Come on folks...it was a children's musical. Every children's musical written for the last 40 years has had some sort of theme to it. Even the old Psalty ones. I would imagine the theme to this one was actually race cars in general than specific NASCAR references."
Thanks Cory, that makes it much more 'spritual'. (sarcasm intended)
oc
I do discern the illness within me. The passages you gave me does apply.
I understand that I am a sinner saved by grace. Every word of Christ in Mt 23 strikes at the core of my existence, you don't need to remind me of that.
"but I am saying that most everyone does deserve a second chance. SG has made mistakes but alot of the issues that have come up were here before SG."
Bonds, read your Bible more. Forgiveness and 'second chances' have NOTHING to do with the qualifications for an elder (pastor and minister) who must be above reproach.
WS, I am curious. Did the Holy Spirit tell Paul about the sexual sin in the Corinithian church?
Watching: If you are going to quote me, I would appreciate you using the entire quote in context. The ones I said knew about PW were PW and Mrs. PW. I said NOTHING about anyone else.
I don't understand your (lack of) logic nor do I understand you hammering on an issue you obviously have not basis for. Why don't you back off, go pray, listen for the Holy Spirit, and try again. God is not the author of confusion and your posts are confusing.
oc
Look again, the passages you gave me may apply. Hmmm...Maybe to you too?
Oh yes if you are a dispensationalist you can choose the passages that apply to you.
Dear Mr. Page: I don't want to harp on this but some of the statements you made were hurtful to victims. I have heard from several as a result of your comments.
Most well meaning people think that God will heal it all and that is what is told to many victims. Oh how I wish it were that simple. It just isn't and when we spout off something to make a point and we are not sure or clear about what we are saying we hurt even further.
I do agree with your comment about jail however. We have fought a hard battle with the legislature last year to get some statutes changed. We thought we had the battle won when at the last minute after our people had left Nashville, someone blinked and we did not get what we wanted.
Yes it is a sin but it is also a crime. I have said many times it is also a murder or rape of the soul. That has much longer after effects than the physical abuse.
Yet when I used that now infamous expression a few weeks ago about the lack of outrage from the membership at Bellevue, I was taken on the carpet for it. It has taken the faithful of the Catholic Church a long, long time to finally step up and demand the proper action. I never in my wildest dreams would I have ever thought the present Senior Pastor at Bellevue would have kept this man in his role for over 6 months with NO restrictions. That I suggest is the highest form of arrogance or stupidity, mabye both.
When you hear harsh tones from some of us victims, it is because we have been there and we do not want one more child to be hurt like we were. We are screaming for help, not for us but for the innocent.
I am in the process of putting together a program that we will taking to other churches, not only Baptists. It will involve the Shelby County Crime Victims' Center as well as the D.A. office. I will be using BBC as an example of what not to do. We want as many people as possible to be informed so our children have a chance. Remember in the United States there are over 39 millions citizens that have been sexually abused as a minor.
The only cylce to break is the one of silence and ignorance.
David Brown
WatchingHistory said... 2:32pm
The Holy Spirit would just say to us to tell him, "why are you lying to the Holy Ghost?"
Then what?
What would you say to me if I asked you that question?
Whoa! Does this make you feel safe and comfy?
It's the control room for the TV ministry at BBC, under the direction of Jim Barnwell. See more here: http://www.jimbarnwell.com/gisppics.htm
[My word verification is PUMOM - I love it!]
Whoa! Does this make you feel safe and comfy?
It's the control room for the TV ministry at BBC, under the direction of Jim Barnwell. See more here: http://www.jimbarnwell.com/gisppics.htm
Why would it make you feel safe or not safe?
concerned
"Fact of the matter is that there were several who DID know about PW....."
I took that to mean that you knew of others who knew about this and did not say anything. Later you refered to his wife and that seem to imply there were others. Sorry to have misunderstood.
Actually my guess is that there had to be others who did know and have kept silent. 17 years in a big church and no one knew. Seems a streach to believe.
"Fact of the matter is that there were several who DID know about PW....."
Definition of several-three or more, but not many
I believe you were correct wh
amy
fall to the floor dead!
Watching and Bonds: You guys are so way off......JUST MY OPINION....no, wait...I'd say that's fact.
How do I even say this and still remain as Christ would want me to:
Several....PW, Mrs. PW and the victim. SEVERAL. I prefer to leave the victim out because he was not responsible for dealing with this situation. He was a CHILD.
If others knew 17 years ago, I would not know. But I do know that 3 knew.....and I know that 2 out of the 3 were responsible for taking care of and protecting the 3rd....which they failed miserably at doing. My point (and if you will return to my original post you will see this) was that I had no idea how PW and Mrs. PW could sleep at night and look in the mirror during the day. THEY KNEW.
bonds
just makes sense to me that others knew but did'n say anything.
25+yrs@BBC said...
I wonder if Thing 1 Bonds and Thing 2 Watchinghisssssstory have the same last name?
What was that about last night? I couldn't understand it.
concerned
sorry that I had misunderstood you.
David
Thanks for your informed response. I have high regard for the work you are doing and I will follow your efforts with prayer
God's speed
watchinghistory said:
'I do not believe you should be judging another's servant the way you are doing.'
Dear One I am not judging according to some subjective enlightenment but by the Word of God. Scripture is our guide not our impressions and feelings. You are saying if one is in touch with the Holy Spirit he can just know things about people intuitively. You are wrong.
Some of what I said in my post to which you are referring, I say in jest. I do not believe you picked up on my jesting because you feel your beliefs are under attack and I understand your feeling somewhat defensive. I am not judging you but rather your interpretation of scripture regarding the way that God speaks to believers.
lin
"I am curious. Did the Holy Spirit tell Paul about the sexual sin in the Corinithian church?"
Seems everyone knew about it and word was sent to Paul about it.
sf said (incorrectly)
"You are saying if one is in touch with the Holy Spirit he can just know things about people intuitively. You are wrong."
You are wrong. You are saying, I am saying
I am saying: "The Holy Spirit can tell you things about people." (especially about yourself!)
no subjective enlightenment, intuition, feelings and impressions. Those things come by experience and education.
What is wrong with my interpretation of the way the Holy Spirit talks to believers?
TN-Lizzie,
Your post about Jim Barnwell's war-room was very interesting.
Does Jim Barnwell have a consulting business on the side?
The only reason I ask this question is because he has all of this information on his own seperate site.
Why not put it on the Bellevue Baptist Church website? I would think the church would be proud of what we the members purchased.
Who gave permission for Jim Barnwell to use pictures of the Bellevue Baptist Church media room on his personal website?
What about copywrite or church property rights?
What if someone had snuck into this room, taken pictures, and posted them on the internet?
I'm outraged.
What a double standard.
Jim Barnwell on copyrights:
"And while I do not condone the copying of copyrighted materials in a manner that harms the copyright owner, I believe that anyone has the right to copy programs for their own in-home use."
From here.
You must listen toUnveiling the Apostates by John MacArthur
David Brown, if you are lurking...I think you will appreciate this.
Lin said...
"Come on folks...it was a children's musical. Every children's musical written for the last 40 years has had some sort of theme to it. Even the old Psalty ones. I would imagine the theme to this one was actually race cars in general than specific NASCAR references."
Thanks Cory, that makes it much more 'spritual'. (sarcasm intended)
3:28 PM, April 30, 2007
So you were there? You saw the musical and can make a judgment on how "spiritual" it was? I don't see how you can judge it either way if you weren't there, myself included.
The trolls are back. Don't feed the TROLLS!!!
watching history:
close your eyes.
which hand of mine has the quarter in it?
Don't know?
Hmmmm, what does this mean?
the third hand
did I get it? did I get it
The trolls are back. Don't feed the TROLLS!!!
7:05 PM, April 30, 2007
You are right, Charlie. I won't feed the trolls. But you and I both KNOW that I had to be there to know that racing cars at a musical are spiritual. The Word itself is just not enough anymore.
Hey, maybe next year they can do what North Pointe did...a 'pimp my church van' event...oh nevermind, it's already be done...we have to be coming up with new stuff to keep the masses entertained or they won't come to church.
Ima, Thanks for the link...listening now with my Bible open.
WatchingHISstory said...
"17 years ago when the "drop out dad" was being introduced to the SBC, the church was told that the father should be the primary source of teaching in the home and the absentee father was criticized for neglecting his role."
What in the world do you mean by that?
Lin said...
"Ima, Thanks for the link...listening now with my Bible open."
Good deal! I hope others will listen too. It is so relevant to BBC.
mortified
17 years ago when the "drop out dad" was being introduced to the SBC, the church was told that the father should be the primary source of teaching in the home and the absentee father was criticized for neglecting his role.
The man who stands before God right now knows that what I am writing is the truth. He understands negligence and He knows that his negligence is the primary source of BBC's problems.
He like many father's today are so busying saving the world that they forget the home.
17 years ago when a pedophile was walking the halls of Bellevue, the pastor who should have been protecting the flock was busy with leading the SBC in a resurregence and neglected his own family ,BBC, and a pedophile did untold damage to a church that feels the effect to this day.
The musical was titled Race to win and basically was about two top race car drivers competeing in the Freedom 400 and one leading the other to Christ. The musical contained video appearances from Darrell Waltrip. There was also a car show before the musical.
You are right, Charlie. I won't feed the trolls. But you and I both KNOW that I had to be there to know that racing cars at a musical are spiritual. The Word itself is just not enough anymore.
Hey, maybe next year they can do what North Pointe did...a 'pimp my church van' event...oh nevermind, it's already be done...we have to be coming up with new stuff to keep the masses entertained or they won't come to church.
Trolls interrupt important stuff and distract from the real important topics.
BELLEVUE IS IN REALLY BIG TROUBLE!!!!!!!!
dot said
"I pass BBC everyday and am filled with saddness daily as I reflect on were she has been and were she is today. I know others have mentioned this and I, too, feel like there should be a funeral of some kind for her."
WatchingHISstory said...
mortified
17 years ago when the "drop out dad" was being introduced to the SBC, the church was told that the father should be the primary source of teaching in the home and the absentee father was criticized for neglecting his role.
The man who stands before God right now knows that what I am writing is the truth. He understands negligence and He knows that his negligence is the primary source of BBC's problems.
He like many father's today are so busying saving the world that they forget the home.
17 years ago when a pedophile was walking the halls of Bellevue, the pastor who should have been protecting the flock was busy with leading the SBC in a resurregence and neglected his own family ,BBC, and a pedophile did untold damage to a church that feels the effect to this day.
8:01 PM, April 30, 2007
It would appear that this "BARB" is being aimed at Dr. Rogers.
and also, Charlie, SG inherited this mess and is not doing a good job untangling the mess.
"The musical was titled Race to win and basically was about two top race car drivers competeing in the Freedom 400 and one leading the other to Christ. The musical contained video appearances from Darrell Waltrip. There was also a car show before the musical."
Reply: Excuse me? This was a musical in the church last Sunday? Am I understanding this correctly?
Anyone willing to share their views of Ezekiel 26, prophecy against Tyre. Has it been fulfilled?
john mark said...
I'm so thrilled by the progress the NBBCOF has made today in addressing the problems facing BBC.
I'm sure the church leadership feels the same, too.
I'm sure the leadership is thrilled that with each passing week there are fewer and fewer dissenters in the pews at BBC. A fact I'm sure you're quite thrilled about as well.
Since watching is deliberately playing word games...
trying to be spooky or prophetic...
hard to know if he is trying to say the negligent dad is Bro R....
or really WHAT he is saying at all.
IF he is, hope none of Bro R's kids are reading.
When the integrity of her husband was being questioned...thanks to the junk put out by "leadership"...
Mrs. R stepped out from her comfort zone as his widow and called the Mike Fleming show.
Not her style at all, but she did what she needed to do.
I would not talk about their daddy or grand daddy. Not wise.
Ez, I am a pre mill'er that believes in Doctines of Grace....and it is a lonely place...not many of us around. :o)
17 years ago when a pedophile was walking the halls of Bellevue, the pastor who should have been protecting the flock was busy with leading the SBC in a resurregence and neglected his own family ,BBC, and a pedophile did untold damage to a church that feels the effect to this day.
gmommylv said...
Since watching is deliberately playing word games...
trying to be spooky or prophetic...
hard to know if he is trying to say the negligent dad is Bro R....
Can't you understand what I am saying or do you want to understand. Whether spooky or prophetic there are no word games involved.
Dear IMA: Thanks for the link. I loved it. I already subscribe to John's podcasts. I download them and when I am sitting on the dock fishing, I get to watch him again on my IPOD.
Once again thanks.
Watching: Please get away from the computer for awhile. You have been at it all day and late into last night. It is messing up your mind.
David Brown
Watching,
I honestly cannot understand you. I'm sorry.
When you first appeared on the blog ,you were strange, then you seemed to fellowship with us and you were actually communicating and making sense.
Now you have gone so far over to the dark side,I am wondering if you are not just being a JMO,truth ruse....maybe you are.
Truth Ruse always gave me the gut feeling he was very closely tied to SG.
At the very least,you have changed personalities which some of the irritants on this blog do that often.
If your beef is with a specific person about a specific thing...state it clearly.
If you think you are in some way enlightning any of us...you are not.
You are giving the impression of being a joke or unbalanced.
If you are not a child of Bro R. then I wouldn't say he is a bad dad....none of his children would agree.
Are you angry,evil,or unbalanced???? or is this your idea of fun?
Is WH actually Steve Tucker? We know Tucker had no respect for Dr Rogers and from his actions and comments at several events - one in particular was the final CC meeting - we know how vicious he can be toward those in authority who do not let him have his way - How about his IP address? NASS, can you email it to me?
I believe that God is calling me to fast and pray for Bellevue as well as for other things. I invite you to join me in petitioning God on behalf of our church. I will be starting my fast on Thursday, May 3rd. Please seek God by praying and fasting however you can for as long as you can. Thank you and God bless
WatchingHISstory said...
and also, Charlie, SG inherited this mess and is not doing a good job untangling the mess.
REPLY:
I repeat. SG knew exactly what he was getting into. It is right up his alley.
Richard Tucker,
Many of us have been praying for a very long time. We have fasted as the Lord has led us. I will continue to pray and will join you and others on Thursday as we begin a concerted effort to pray together for the healing of the Lord's house. I will pray about fasting as well and if the Lord lay's it on my heart, which He more than likely will, I will join you in the fast as well. We should set a specific time to lift our hearts to the Lord each day as a group. Just because we are not physically together, does not mean we cannot join together in prayer at the same time.
Thanks for your post.
WatchingHISstory said...
amy
fall to the floor dead!
4:14 PM, April 30, 2007
Do you mind clarifying that comment? Just reading it it seems like either a death threat or telling someone to go and die.
Amy said...
WatchingHistory said... 2:32pm
The Holy Spirit would just say to us to tell him, "why are you lying to the Holy Ghost?"
Then what?
What would you say to me if I asked you that question?
WH was responding to this
NASS... I mean... Wow... Ace's many personalities have a limited vocabulary sometimes... imo. Sad!
Bonds said...
Wow good point.
12:18 AM, April 30, 2007
Wow, now I am really confused.
12:36 AM, April 30, 2007
Bonds said...
Its Barry Bonds, you know the steroid user or at least that is what has been reported. WOW reminds me of someone else?
12:22 AM, April 30, 2007
Wow not sure about having those big screens in church. Next thing you know we will be watch Barney recite the pledge of allegiance.
12:41 AM, April 30, 2007
Wow, how Christ like. Sorry to tell you though I am a first timer here on this website. Calling me an idiot is kind of out there since you don't know me. But I will let this one slide and I forgive you. And why would one get banned from this website? Is there a dictator here?
12:57 AM, April 30, 2007
__________
I wonder if sickofthelies will hear sad, sad viola music as the ship leaves port. jmo.
I have been reading this blog for only a short time and I really am trying to understand what is going on at Bellevue. Can some help?
Daniel...
Go to:
Integritydoescount.com and read the event timeline.
here is the address to that part of the site:
http://intergritydoescount.com/faq.html
There are alot of accusations made toward SG. I hope everything that is going on here is true because there are alot of people that I talk to during the day at work or where ever that are watching everything going on here. They make the comments about this is why they don't go to church and why do people that believe in God always have to be perfect. I believe there are alot of souls that aren't being saved because of all this fighting. I hope all of this is true because I surely wouldn't want to stand in front of God and be wrong. I will pray for Bellevue and its administration.
I was also reading the information about the bylaws and it said something about them being written in 1929? Have they not been changed since then.
I do not know what to believe but I do know if we put our trust and prayers in Jesus Christ, He will get us through this.
I also want you to know that I am not on either side of this, so I continue to pray and maybe chime in every once in a while.
daniel
Tell your friends that those standing up for the truth want to deal with the sin in our midst so that what they see in the pulpt is a TRUE servant of Christ and not an imposter out to gain POWER and MONEY for himself.
Tell them these false prophets have always been around misleading people and taking advantage of them. Jesus warned us about them and we are attempting to deal with the one in our midst before more damage is done.
I'm sure this is not the first counterfeit many of them have seen, unfortunately.
Tell them we once had the real thing in the pulpit and we are all shocked and dismayed at this man who has destroyed the legacy of a once great Christ honoring church.
Daniel,
Tell them that when women were promised confidentiality in REQUIRED counseling if they checked the " yes" box in answering the question:
" have you ever been sexually abused"
Only to find out 12 years later that those outside of counseling have gone thru the most personal details of those women's lives, and files have left the counseling office for perusal of anyone.
These are men who have willingly made the choice to cover up for the false prophet.
Women have been betrayed in the worst sort of way, by insensitive men whose #1 priority is to protect Steve Gaines at any cost.
Tell them that there are other churches out there, and that if I can give church another chance, so can they.
Daniel: The only side you need to be on is the side that stands with scripture. Read about a pastor's qualifications in I Timothy. Understand that, according to James, pastors are held to a higher standard. Think about actions that honor, and dishonor, our Lord.
It is absolutely crucial that you and your friends know that many times those that stand for Christ stand alone and are persecuted. Right and wrong is not determined by a poll, or by how things "feel." It is determined by God's Word.
As you have time, you might want to go back and reread some threads. Many deep theological issues have been discussed. With the exception of the Trolls that pop up, these discussions are based on scripture, sometimes passionate, and usually respectful. They are always illuminating and challenge us to study scripture more, and deeper. Search, you will find the answers.
Daniel,
It's sad but true that folks in Memphis and around the country are watching Bellevue through the lense of a microscope.
Corruption in the church has been happening throughout the ages so the corruption at Bellevue is nothing new.
People get turned off of church just like they do with government when corruption is not dealt with.
It's very frustrating to those inside the church and outside the church to watch leaders do wrong things and then watch an apathetic electorate or in this case an apathetic congregation just yawn or wink and ignore the corruption.
It's imperative that the leadership of Bellevue i.e. Steve Gaines be held accountable for the past indiscretions he has committed. They eyes of the world are watching to see what is done.
Each time government or church leaders get away with fleecing their people; more folks just get cynical against church and government alike.
Folks who are involved in the corrupt leadership have to know they are doing more harm to the cause of Christ than those who want to hold them accountable.
This is an argument they like to use but the scripture is very plain on right vs. wrong.
When corrupt politicians or church leaders are dealt with, people have so much more respect for the church involved or the government involved.
25 asks:
I wonder if sickofthelies will hear sad, sad viola music as the ship leaves port. jmo.
Reply:
naw, I'm thinkin she's gonna be hearing the steel drums as she drinks her red drink with the little umbrella.
John Mark: You just don't seem to be able to look at the big picture. All this "irrelevant junk" adds up to a major problem. God is not happy with the irreverant spirit, lack of accountability, and breaking of the law by this leadership. If leaders can not be trusted in the small issues, they certainly aren't able to handle the big issues. Think about it.
NASS: Thanks. Sorry. :(
Daniel,
It's sad but true that folks in Memphis and around the country are watching Bellevue through the lens of a microscope.
Corruption in the church and among church members has been happening throughout the ages so what has happened at Bellevue should not surprise anyone.
People get turned off of church just like they do with government when corruption abounds. Jesus said, "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have LOVE one for another." It's very frustrating to those inside and outside the church to watch members attack leaders and each other instead of walking in a spirit of forgiveness, and then to watch this same group rise up in direct opposition to Scriptural directives against creating dissension among brethren, yawning or winking at each other's un-Christ-like behavior and language and relentless attacks on people they once called brothers and sisters in the Lord.
It's imperative that we, as the people of Bellevue, work together toward healing and reconciliation, and that we do so in a spirit of love and forgiveness. It is imperative, as well, that those church members who continue to stir the waters of dissent be held accountable for the indiscretions they continue to commit. The eyes of the world are watching to see what is done.
Each time people who call themselves followers of Christ get away with treating each other like enemies, splitting churches, dividing families and friends, and besmirching the Holy Name of Jesus, more folks just get cynical against the church.
Folks who are involved in attacking our church's leadership have to know they are doing much harm to the cause of Christ, under the guise of "holding others accountable."
This is an argument they like to use but the Scripture is very plain on right vs. wrong.
When corrupt church members are dealt with, confronted in love and restored, people have so much more respect for the church involved.
There are many of us who do not agree with much of what is posted on this site. Still, we continue to pray, asking God to show the truth of Himself to us and others. We long for the palpable presence of God to fill our church again in place of the current air of suspicion, bitterness, and distrust. We long to walk in a spirit of forgiveness toward ALL --even those with whom we disagree. Our hearts break and we often do not know what to say, which is why many of us do not post very often.
But rest assured, Daniel, all is not as it appears on this blogsite. Get in your Bible and on your face before the Lord. Know that Christ has triumphed over evil (Revelations -- He WINS!) and He will certainly triumph in this difficulty as well.
Maybejustmaybe--
When leaders run from the truth they will find that few will want to hear them proclaim that they know the Truth.
Comunications committees, buffers between pastor and people, intimidation of those who far outnumber the required two or three witnesses required to bring an accusation against a pastor...
But the leadership controls whether any forum can occur to deal with the problems.
Pastors are not kings. Pastors are not high priests. The church is a priesthood of believers.
It is not the case that God has to send a Nathan to point at the pastor and say, "You are the man."
The scripture allows acusations to be brought by two or three witnesses. The scripture gives the forum for these to be brought (Mt. 18)-- before the church body.
Many have called for this to take place for months while Bellevue has continued to decline.
The plan so far has been to end the only session where the body of believers met so that the leadership could hear from the membership.
It appears that God is sending out His light and His truth to other congregations.
Without truth you will eventually have a church building without the church.
jmo
Daniel: When you study and pray, you will find that the Holy Spirit will not allow you to overlook the "mistakes of the mind" that have been flippantly used to explain away sin. While forgiveness is paramount, there are consequences for sin. We must not wink at sin, nor shoot the messengers.
And yes, when you read Revelation, Christ does triumph. However, we are not there yet, and it is a believer's responsibility to stay true to God's word until then.
MJM
You sound like a bleeding heart liberal.
If you read to the end of the passage in Matt. 18 dealing with this issue, you will see that those held accountable that do not repent after being brought before the church body should not be treated as a brother but as an infidel.
Is the Bible too cruel an unforgiving in your opinion?
When repentance occurs and the church body is restored - there will be plenty who would forgive. But the church is still being dis membered by this one who was supposed to be our shepherd.
I'm just sorry you weren't around when Jesus was so "unforgiving" and rebuking the religious leaders of His day. What a poor example you must have thought He was. Maybe you could have straightened Him out. :)
Piglet: Check your mailbox! :)
Concernedsbcer
What a coincidence. You have mail, too! :D
(offline til later)
Daniel,
There are always going to be folks in church who look good and do the normal things church people do while in church. On the surface, they are great people.
The problems of BBC don't end with Steve Gaines alone. The leadership many of whom are on staff along with the untitled "elders" (about 8 to 10 men) is in the same category as Steve Gaines. They know right from wrong and they see it but they don't flee from it. Their decisions are usually based on either money, pride, or both.
People can go to church all their life and hear the Word preached but never really live the Word. I've heard people testify they went to seminary and realized they were never saved but they sure acted the part most of the time.
When Jesus is Lord of your life, there is a change that occurs. The fruits of the Spirit should be evident in the life of a Believer. When sin is present in the church, the true leaders will rise up and call it what it is.
I'm grateful for the leaders God has raised up these past 20 months that have called sin what it is.
The sad part is a lot of the leaders we all thought would not accept this behavior have been silent and or embraced it.
The silence of many of our deacons and teachers has been disappointing. If these men and women really liked what Steve Gaines was doing, they would be very vocal for him. In reality, their silence is deafening.
Meanwhile, the church continues to be ripped to shreds while Steve Gaines and his men pilfer the church.
maybejustmaybe,
I am praying for you, your total lack of discernment and your total BLINDNESS.
Does anyone have the names of the people who received the free trips to Greece?
After years of fleecing the sheep on travel tours, Steve Gaines got caught. After he got caught, he said he would instead of taking the cash ($45,000+) bonus, he would give tickets away. If I recall, a fellow provided a signed affidavit to this effect from earlier days dealing with Steve Gaines. The travel agency also confirmed this truth.
I tried to get on the scholarship list to go but never heard back from anyone.
Does anyone have any knowledge of anyone who did receive the freebees?
Just curious!
nathanb,
Why, don't you know that information is not only none of our business, it is too deep for us to comprehend, being that we are not the spiritual giants that the leadership and supporters claim to be! LOL
I can almost guarantee that the money went to someone's pocket or they would have no problems providing the financial information you requested on this trip!
Maybe Mrs. MJM can find out for us since she is in the "know" and claims everything is on the up and up? (Maybe she got your ticket!)
Nass: Sorry, but I gotta.....
John Mark: Everything falls into one of these three catagories!
irreverant spirit: telling people to leave the church, standing O's, lack of respect to Dr. Rogers, telling a member to stop saying "amen" during worship service, joined Willow Creek Association, a seeker-sensitive movement leader (then pulled out after it became public, apparently), ignoring the victim of horrible abuse
lack of accountability: Failure to turn over required business information, not having business meeting as required by by-laws, cutting off business meetings before they are complete, Chuck Taylor and Steve Tucker inform Dr. Mike Spradlin that Matt. 18 does not apply to pastors
Breaking the law: fence climbing in a no trespassing area, failure to report a pedophile, failure to turn over documents required by non-profit law, improper tax-free charges made to BBC credit card accounts
I could go on, but this gives a good idea.................these issues all add up to someone who does not meet the qualifications to shepherd a church.
imho
Piglet and Mom4,
Matt. 18 -- if the "offender" is unrepentant, we are treat them as an infidel, right?
Infidel: An infidel (literally, "one without faith") is one who doubts or rejects central tenets of a religion, especially those regarding its deities.
I hope you treat infidels, nonbelievers, better than the treatment reflected in your posts that is directed toward our Pastor and various other church members (including me, simply because I disagree with you).
And I hate to burst your bubble, but I have no vacation plans. That was a new, tacky low for you, Mom4.
"Mrs MJM"
MJM,
Are you saying that Steve Gaines is to be treated as an infidel because he refused to abide by the scriptures as revealed in Matthew 18?
And I apologize for offending you with my "all new low". I just call it as I see it.
I am not his judge.
Matt. 18 has never been followed, has it? None of the issues in question were ever treated as private matters of offense between brothers and from reading this blog, it is obvious that anything and everything else has been carried here to be hashed and rehashed as matters of public consumption. True or not. Our business or not.
The verse I was referring to, specifically, is Matt. 18:17 (or, in context, Matt. 18:15-20, esp. v. 17). The KJV says that if a brother who has sinned against you will not hear "the church," then treat him "as an heathen man and a publican." The NIV says, "treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
So my point is, how do we treat people who are to us as heathens, if we believe we are Scriptural in our opinion that they have sinned against us and refuse to repent? Do we show them the love of Christ and try to demonstrate that we have something worth having, which they need? Or do we destroy their good name(s) in a public forum? Which is it?
What is our church's mission? How can we expect people who really are infidels to believe that we love them at all and that we are concerned about them and where they spend eternity when we treat each other this way?
How many times does someone have to acknowledge a wrong before it is forgotten and not mentioned again? In the blog world, apparently nothing ever goes away, does it?
And by the way, Charlie, thanks for the prayers. "I once was blind, but now I see."
By the way, my comments are not made in an attempt to perpetuate discord or entrap anyone in an argument. Much of what is blogged here, whether I agree with it or not, serves to make me think and study more. The questions in my post, therefore, are not necessarily made to elicit a response or score any points. I hardly think there is much accomplished for the cause of Christ by a bunch of grandmas playing tug-o'-war.
MJM,
You said, "Matt. 18 has never been followed, has it? None of the issues in question were ever treated as private matters of offense between brothers..."
I do not wish to beat up on you or argue with you, but that statement is completely false. Mark Sharpe and others did go to the pastor privately in accordance with Matthew 18. They also went to Mark Dougharty about the dream issue. Those meetings were in vain. When an attempt to further carry out Matthew 18 was made, Mark Sharpe was suddenly labeled a sinner in need of repentance for daring to ask questions.
We need a pastor willing to be accountable to the standards of Scripture. The pastor started this drama by refusing to be accountable in accordance with Matthew 18.
If BBC will begin to operate in accordance with Holy Scripture instead of doing what seems right in the eyes of men, we will end this mess and restore our church. Until then, we will dig a deeper and deeper hole for ourselves.
maybejustmaybe said...
I am not his judge.
Matt. 18 has never been followed, has it? None of the issues in question were ever treated as private matters of offense between brothers and from reading this blog, it is obvious that anything and everything else has been carried here to be hashed and rehashed as matters of public consumption. True or not. Our business or not.
Piglet says:
Well, Matt. 18 has been attempted ad nauseam and you know this if you've read the IDC timeline and previous threads.
And these sins have been public and have affected and injured us all. For that reason it is our business and it is public.
MJM said:
The verse I was referring to, specifically, is Matt. 18:17 (or, in context, Matt. 18:15-20, esp. v. 17). The KJV says that if a brother who has sinned against you will not hear "the church," then treat him "as an heathen man and a publican." The NIV says, "treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
So my point is, how do we treat people who are to us as heathens, if we believe we are Scriptural in our opinion that they have sinned against us and refuse to repent? Do we show them the love of Christ and try to demonstrate that we have something worth having, which they need? Or do we destroy their good name(s) in a public forum? Which is it?
Piglet says:
Point is, they should be taken to court for the records they refuse to surrender. And yes, they should be held accountable and we should prevent them from further injuring the membership.
I am not destroying anyone's name. They have destroyed their own. Do you often blame the victims for the crime?
MJM said:
What is our church's mission? How can we expect people who really are infidels to believe that we love them at all and that we are concerned about them and where they spend eternity when we treat each other this way?
Piglet says:
What do we have if we ignore sin and let it continue? Nothing. We become just like the world.
MJM said:
How many times does someone have to acknowledge a wrong before it is forgotten and not mentioned again? In the blog world, apparently nothing ever goes away, does it?
Piglet says:
These things are mentioned over and over because they are the outward manifestation of deeply entrenched spiritiual problems. And they have not been dealt with. This is a man who pretends to be our spiritual leader and pastor but is not qualified according to scripture.
maybejustmaybe said...
By the way, my comments are not made in an attempt to perpetuate discord or entrap anyone in an argument. Much of what is blogged here, whether I agree with it or not, serves to make me think and study more. The questions in my post, therefore, are not necessarily made to elicit a response or score any points. I hardly think there is much accomplished for the cause of Christ by a bunch of grandmas playing tug-o'-war.
Piglet says:
I'm not a grandma. And what say ye about Jesus' attacks on the Pharisees? Must have been some infidels around....
"How many times does someone have to acknowledge a wrong before it is forgotten and not mentioned again?"
This is one of our chief problems. Many of the wrongs have been ignored or denied completely. The dream issue was among the first issues. By denying the self-evident truth (i.e. one or several of our ministers were lying) concerning that issue, the leadership created a monster. If they had Scipturally dealt with that one issue, I bet this conflict would never have spilled into the public arena.
We ignore scripture at our peril. The pastor should be preaching and modeling this, not ignoring it.
Piglet,
Amen.
Now here's a great idea. Let's all pretend like nothing ever happened. Then, we'll all be ok and BBC will be the best church ever.
Is that how you deal with your sin before a holy and flawless God?
The Lord disciplines those He loves.
Incidently, did I miss SG's humble "acknowledgement" of a "wrong" and repentance of said "wrong?"
Piglet says:
I'm not a grandma. And what say ye about Jesus' attacks on the Pharisees? Must have been some infidels around....
MJM says:
Sorry, Piglet. Didn't mean to insult you by calling you a grandma. You'll love it when you get to be one, though.
About Jesus' attacks on the Pharisees? He's 100% God. Pretty much license to rebuke anyone, because He's doing it from the standpoint of being sinless. I, on the other hand, am not. He could see hearts. I cannot.
Socwork: You are right! If we just pretend nothing has happened, then everyone will be happy....especially God! Why didn't we think of that before??? (Isn't it astonishing how many people really think this way?)
Because sincere apologies have not been made, hurts dealt with, law abided, a show of repentance (you know, a TURNING AWAY from sin)and Matt. 18 followed. Until these things are done, there is no way BBC can hope to please God and walk in His Way.
As always, jmho
MJM: Now you are really opening a can of worms! Jesus was 100% man too.
MJM
Grandmas are great. I'm just not ready to be one yet.
Let me paint a word picture for you.
I am strolling down the sidewalk and see a teen aged kid assaulting a grandma. I take my purse, which weighs about 50 pounds and start beating him over the head with it (in a christian manner, of course). He stops long enough to say he's really sorry for assaulting this poor granny, but then proceeds to assault her some more.
Do I forgive the kid and move along? Or do I beat him with my purse until he quits or the police arrive?
I guess you get my point. This blog will be over when we have a church meeting (boy, asking for the moon aren't we) and these issues are settled the way God intended in his word. If the accused, who are also the ones in power, refuse us the forum, we will use what we have.
sheepless
My purse is heavy but durable and trendy. :)
Piglet: You're pretty tough for a little piggie! Great example!
socwork said...
Now here's a great idea. Let's all pretend like nothing ever happened. Then, we'll all be ok and BBC will be the best church ever.
Soc,
I know you're being sarcastic in your post so let me throw in some more "suggestions":
Do you know all the words to Kum Bye Ya? I've forgotten them. Oh, I know! Let's sing "Sweet, Sweet Spirit!" Let's just all forget about the laws being broken, forget about the people left in the dust, forget about $25,000 donation, forget about a 15 yr old girl being handcuffed, and (Here's the kicker) forget about the harboring of a sexual predator. Ok, y'all ready?
There's a sweet, sweet spirit in this place...
Oh never mind - I feel sick to my stomach.
karen
concernedsbcer
I work out. :0)
I bow to the piglet - she really could kick my hiney (I said it again!) if she wanted too!
karen :)
One of my personal favorites is to close my eyes, put my hands over my ears, and sing "Jingle Bells" over and over again. It's pretty effective for a short time, but for some reason my friends don't want to hang around with me when I'm doing this.
Karen
Just make sure you don't go beatin' on any grannies. :)
MJM, you ask some very good questions!
"I am not his judge."
Then what is Jesus teaching in Matthew 7? What is Peter teaching in 1 Peter? Check those out very carefully. Judgement begins at the House of the Lord. How can one inspect fruit without making a judgment..scripturally, of course."
"Matt. 18 has never been followed, has it? None of the issues in question were ever treated as private matters of offense between brothers and from reading this blog, it is obvious that anything and everything else has been carried here to be hashed and rehashed as matters of public consumption. True or not. Our business or not."
There is a distinction. I believe early on an attempt at Matthew 18 was made by Mark Sharpe. However, serious unrepented sins by elders, false teaching, etc., have NOTHING To do with Matthew 18. Those are to be rebuked publicly. Just as Paul did to Peter and John did to Diontrephes... a few examples from scripture.
"So my point is, how do we treat people who are to us as heathens, if we believe we are Scriptural in our opinion that they have sinned against us and refuse to repent? Do we show them the love of Christ and try to demonstrate that we have something worth having, which they need? Or do we destroy their good name(s) in a public forum? Which is it? "
Very good question!~ The person who is to be treated as a heathen was professing Christ yet acting like a heathen. A real heathen is NOT professing Christ. In 1 Corinthians 5 Paul talks about putting the sinner out of church so that HE COULD BE SAVED. Cutting off fellowship...so God can do a work on him.
Allowing them to stay in church only covers over the sin. (trust me...most churches do NOT teach scritpural church discipline and you probably think reading this how mean it sounds...most people do... because they do not know scripture)
Now, keep in mind that during all of this, it is being done because we love that person and want to see them really saved. Think of how we have treated that word, 'love'. If WE REALLY LOVE SOMEONE...we do not want to see them be a 'pretend' Christian and face the eternal fire.
The problem at BBC with leadership is that no one really admits or even really repents. They make excuses why they ignored scripture. (I have not even talked about the twisting of scripture)
"What is our church's mission? How can we expect people who really are infidels to believe that we love them at all and that we are concerned about them and where they spend eternity when we treat each other this way?"
Let's look at it another way. How can we expect unbelievers to see truth of scripture lived out when we ignore it? We look like the world...or worse...we harbor pedophiles! Why should they take our faith seriously if we do not?
"How many times does someone have to acknowledge a wrong before it is forgotten and not mentioned again? In the blog world, apparently nothing ever goes away, does it?"
Acknowledging a wrong? Where is that in scripture? It is called sin and repentance and it means a change of heart...a turning away from sin. There is a godly sorrow of sinning against the Word of God. And one can tell when it is real...and it ain't sweeping it under the rug because the pastor said, 'sorry'.
In the case of elders (pastors, ministers)scripturally they have given up the right to those positions...they should step down according to the teaching of Timothy and Titus.
Scripture is VERY clear...elders should be above reproach..even to the 'world'. Scary, huh?
Let's see.....
"Jingle Bells, Jingle bells".....
Hey it works!
Thanks Socwork!
Good post, lin. Thanks.
MJM is caught up in the 'unity' mantra. She does not understand there can be no unity without total truth.
What good would it be? One does not 'move on' from deception and lies ignoring them.
I am constantly amazed at how many people want to settle for pretend, phony relationships when the depth of true unity in the Word and in Christ is the most incredible thing in the world.
Don't settle.
Funny how one can read Acts and see the early church forming. When deception tried to come in early on by lying (and when we lie, we lie to the Holy Spirit) and they were struck dead. And the scripture says that all of the people feared. (How is that for shattering false perceptions about 'love')
That was the point:FEAR. I believe that God showed early on how serious He is about the purity of His Church.
Unity? Pleh! Give me unity IN truth. Anything else is false.
My purse is heavy but durable and trendy. :) "
They must be durable to hold all our stuff. We never know when we are going to need all that stuff...and besides, they do make great weapons.
question folks - was last Sunday's televised message a rerun? I saw people that I knew were long gone, but the message was a new one - I think? Does anyone know?
mom4
Someone posted, I think yesterday, that the media dept. are editing in old crowd footage with the new sermons, since the crowds have diminished lately.
Mom4,
Yes! My mom watched it and one of the singers on the Praise Team has been gone for months. I told y'all on Monday BBC is showing "reruns" because they don't want to show the "audience" is getting thinner.
karen
Karen,
Thanks, I don't usually watch it bc I am in church at that time, but I just happened to be near a TV at the time of last Sunday's 8am message and saw at least 2 people, one of which has been gone since last September I believe. I did not recognize the message as being a rerun though, which puzzled me. I keep up with the sermon notes and unless I missed that one the first time, it is a newbie...could they be editing the production to the current message with the music and crowd shots edited in? Or am I mistaken?
socwork,
Thanks for the info. I missed your post when I glanced at them earlier. Doesn't that seem like an awful lot of work just to deceive people?
It would make sense that they would edit in footage of the choir / orchestra and audience. The choir and orchestra are down by 40-50% over the last 18 months and the audience is down by similar percentages.
The deception is incredible....
RE: Matthew 18
Remember, that the saddle maker ( Steve Tucker) and Chuck Taylor visited Mike Spradlin over at the seminary and informed him that Matthew 18 did NOT apply to his royal highness, King Stevie Wonder.
OH, I"m sorry, did that sound disrespectful? Well, if that title offended anyone, I tell you what, when he starts ACTING like a man of God, I'll give him the respect of a man of God.
But as long as he is:
Scaling fences and tresspasses on private property, hands out God's money to apostate churches to promote abortions and homosexuality, goes to other churches and trashes his own sheep, winks at the sodomizing of a child by his minister father, pretends that a 15 y/o girl was not cussed out and handcuffed in HIS church, to name a few, then he will be treated with the respect or disrespect that he DESERVES!!
Informed: To quote a near and dear friend to this blog.......
That's just WRONG!
Oh Bellevue, deception is thy middle name.
mom4,
Yes, my mom said the same thing - they are splicing in shots of the choir and "audience" and running a new message. I guess they think we're stupid or something as not to notice. This is wrong on so many levels.
It was fun to watch LWF to see how people have changed or see my mom on TV (when I was in California), but LWF was all reruns - obviously no new messages can be given (I WISH!), but to run old songs and people and and new sermons is just petty and low.
karen
my word verification is "SKCUG" which could apply here! :)
informed,
I've heard from more than 1 person that there are no tenors singing at 9:30 anymore - do you know anything about this?
By the way, GBC's choir is growing by leaps and bounds - wonder why??
karen
SOTL,
According to "why", Steve Gaines is suffering and "why" doesn't blame him for not meeting with a group that opposes him without our resident buffer zone aka David Coombs. Check out his comments on brainwashedbellevuer and see if you can read it through without throwing up.
Someone sent this to me and I thought I'd share.
Grandma's must take care of themselves when Piglet and her purse aren't around.
Actual Voice Mail
karen,
where's the link for that?
Whatever happened to "Provide ALL things honest before ALL men" - In my simple faith, that "ALL" would include the TV viewing audience.
Since this is normally the "unchurched" group they are trying to solicit, I guess they think that their "purpose" qualifies it, even if it is sin.
People should boycott the services if they cannot provide them honestly for a lost and dying world to see. If there is nothing going on that is not above board, why are they trying to deceive people? If SG is right in ALL he does, he should stand proud and preach the Gospel even if there is not another soul in the worship center, regardless of who sees it?
Go figure the man's motives?
Who would honestly want to be a part of that lie, let alone be accountabile for supporting the deception?
I guess it flies in a secular business world with dishonest CEOs, but in a Baptist Church?
Amy
LOL!
Reckon those four little old ladies would take care of somebody for us?
I'd give thwm a ride to church since their car is probably in the shop....
Socwork,
I like the "Jingle Bell" idea too, but try it with "C is for Cookie" sometime - just for variety.
C is for cookie, that's good enough for me (sing 3x)
Cookie, cookie, cookie start with C!
You know you know it! :) For those of you who get this stuck in your head and can't get it out, welcome to my world!
karen
Karen......I can't believe you did that to us!!! LOL :)
C is for Cookie...........
Karen -
There are tenors singing in the 9:30 choir, it's down but there were several last week.
As far as GBC - well they have the greatest Music Minister of all time over there; I can't blame anyone for wanting to be under that humble and inspired leadership.
"Who would honestly want to be a part of that lie, let alone be accountabile for supporting the deception?"
response:
Oh, Bellevue, deception is thy middle name.
sickofthelies said...
karen,
where's the link for that?
4:40 PM, May 01, 2007
At the top of the first thread on New BBC Open Forum.
informed,
I had heard the tenor section leader (there's got to be more than one) isn't in choir anymore and even if he were, he'd have no one to lead.
karen
Karen -
Oh don't get me wrong, it's down for sure - way down. You're right though, there is more than one section leader.
We may be talking to the same section leader :)
FWIW
I was watching BBC while getting ready for church Sunday morning and a guy was singing a solo. I told my husband- I think that guy's been visiting Sunday nights at GBC. He sings, then come sits with his family in the pew in front of us.
Sure enough, Sunday night- there he was. When he sat down I asked if he sang at BBC last week as I had seen him on TV this am. He said he left BBC awhile ago, but people still come up and say they say him singing on TV. I said I thought he might officially still a member and Jamie Parker had asked you to sing. He laughed and said, believe me BBC won't be asking me to sing ever again! I wish I could remember his name, he was very nice.
Piglet- I'd like to see BBC security try to escort those four little ladies out of a service. Hee!
Amy said...
Someone sent this to me and I thought I'd share.
Grandma's must take care of themselves when Piglet and her purse aren't around.
Actual Voice Mail
4:39 PM, May 01, 2007
I've heard this before. Its hillarious. I tell ya....don't mistake an old lady for being weak. Those grannies can kick major tail. BTW, notice that the guy literally gets whacked over the head with the Word of God :)
BTW, I think you can download that call off of Rock 103's website here in Memphis.
Ladies...
I mostly lurk these days, but this lastest thing you are talking about is very interesting. Just a tad of input here...I saw something on television a year or so ago that sounds similar to this. Our President, Mr. Bush, had made a speech somewhere to some of our military. I had seen the footage before and thought nothing about it...I was focused on Mr. Bush. Then several days later some one of the news media brought this to our attention...the viewing audience. The audience to whom he spoke was just full of the military men and women...but then as pointed out, it was the same men and women over and over again! It was like they had 'cut and pasted' these people in the blanks spaces to fill up the vacancies in the crowd. It was truly incredible! So, this is what entered my mind when I read this. And you know there is another scenerio I have seen lately...one night two or three weeks ago, I was surfing the networks and ran upon the old orchestra and singers of Elvis Presley's. It was stirring to see all of them there together singing and playing the old songs...but then right there in the middle of them singing right along was Elvis! I saw this again more recently with Celine Dion and Elvis singing together...honest to goodness, you could not tell that they weren't! So...it would certainly be possible for Bellevue to be pulling this off! Only thing is...if they are, would this not be total deceit? Fill me in. It would have to be. ???
MJM said,
And by the way, Charlie, thanks for the prayers. "I once was blind, but now I see."
REPLY:
I am glad that you can now see. Unfortunately , what you are seeing is the forest. You aren't seeing the trees.
Watching: Please get away from the computer for awhile. You have been at it all day and late into last night. It is messing up your mind.
David Brown
9:34 PM, April 30, 2007
I will pray for you -
Abba, Father, Please make Yourself known to Charles today? Let him see Your love, expressed through someone with skin on.
Allow him to bring his own hurts and sorrows to you, because he chooses to. Let his free will be used for Your glory. You do not force Your perfect soverign grace upon anyone ~ You are too much a gentleman for that. (clearly a good armininian prayer) (my free will has brought me so much harm)
Are you into "word of knowledge" - because I know you're not expecting an SBC pastor to be psychic.
FOR HEAVENS SAKES - THESE SELF APPOINTED MUCKITY MUCKS ARE RUNNING ALL OVER YOU!!!
sickofthelies said: SG was DELIGHTED to find things the way they were, and has had NO desire to change them. It has put him squarely in charge where no one is ALLOWED to question him. The deacons are not allowed to even SPEAK in the deacons meetings.
The ship has set sail. And as the reverend would say, "If you don't like it, leave." (note: the ship has set sail)
I wonder if sickofthelies will hear sad, sad viola music as the ship leaves port. jmo.
Most well meaning people think that God will heal it all and that is what is told to many victims. Oh how I wish it were that simple.
(think about that!!)
Look again, the passages I gave you may apply. Hmmm...Maybe to you? (II Tim 3:16)
"Come on folks...it was a children's musical. Every children's musical written for the last 40 years has had some sort of theme to it. Even the old Psalty ones. I would imagine the theme to this one was actually race cars in general than specific NASCAR references."
close your eyes.
which hand of mine has the quarter in it?
Don't know
The third hand Did I get it? Did I get it?
"Mr. Page, you exhibit very little understanding of this evil crime. Religion has very little to do with it."
AR isn't God. (that one caught me off guard)
Today was kind of a strange day at BBC and it started with a guest musical group called the Hopper family which sung several songs and everything took place kind of in a strange order.
Lost. Confused. Frustrated. Embarrassed. These are just some of the feelings that were roaming through the choir this morning. We did not know the SONG we sang but were expected to sing it loud and clear.
I find it sad and amusing that anyone is still attempting to take up for Steve Gaines - especially here.
sooooooooo
If Steve Gaines has to have DC as his babysitter, who is babysitting DC?
You do not understand why they would not want Brother Steve meeting with a group that is against him, alone??
What happened with the stairs?
Do you think there was some intent to weed out any older members?
sickofthelies said...
NON ALCOHOLIC, of course!
You bought yourselves a pig in a poke. A very expensive one who does not even have to work on Wed's! (this was a good one!!!)
I don't even know where to begin- you have my head spinning. (I have that effect with women!!!)
MOM4 said...
wh,
to rebuke you in Jesus' name - get thee behind me... (I'm still trying to figure that one out)
Hey, maybe next year they can do what North Pointe did...a 'pimp my church van' event...oh nevermind, it's already be done...we have to be coming up with new stuff to keep the masses entertained or they won't come to church.
tn_lizzie2000 said...
It IS biblical:
Even a dog growls when his master is attacked. Grrrrrr
Down, boy! What good is a "watchdog" who cries "wolf"? You're barking up the wrong tree.
(this one has so many funny lines see how many you can find)
Mr Looney had to have said this: "I tried to get on the scholarship list to go but never heard back from anyone."
Unity? Pleh! Give me unity IN truth. Anything else is false.
I will pray about fasting as well and if the Lord lay's it on my heart, which He more than likely will, I will join you in the fast as well (be careful what you pray for!!)
But rest assured, Daniel, all is not as it appears on this blogsite.
Please help me out, I apparently do not have your spiritual insights. What is your real problem?
I'm so thrilled by the progress the NBBCOF has made today in addressing the problems facing BBC.
No one here worships AR. The members of Bellevue I have known have more respect for him and his family than to degrade his legacy.
(Although I never saw him in his pj's, I do know he put them on one leg at a time!) OK OK OK
Not her style at all, but she did what she needed to do.
Wow good point.
12:18 AM, April 30, 2007
Wow, now I am really confused.
12:36 AM, April 30, 2007
A wise historian said:
When you say negative things about a dead person, that's not nice. Because he is not here to defend himself.
When you say nice things about a dead person, that's nice, and is perfectly acceptable behavior in polite society. You are not putting the dead person in a position to have to defend himself.
(re-writing history)
And I notice that you do not listen well, to me nor to others. Well, here are some Words for you. You will be glad to know that they didn't come from me, or from any of the other spiritually decrepit believers on this blog. (I had to pull this from it's context - just coundn't refuse!)
Watching....
::in his best Willie Herenton voice::
Whats your point?
I want to thank everyone who is posting on here, regardless of opinion, because we are engaging in discussion about what is going on at our church home.
We have had emails and visitors to our site (which is named in the original post here) that seem to think that it is unscriptural and wrong for staffers and/or members to post their disagreements or thoughts on any websites.
I can't understand that reasoning. If we were making up lies or cursing and belittling the pastor (or anyone else for that matter) then I could see a problem.
However, we can't even hear what our pastor thinks about these things, nevermind having an honest meeting that deals with the concerns in a biblical way.
Just wanted to vent and say thanks again to everyone TALKING about this. Regardless of what the "trolls" (as I believe you call them) think, it is doing much more good than they know.
Change isn't always a bad thing, unless it is diametrically opposed to what Scripture mandates.
Thanks,
Don Lumley
All,
As I was so rightly corrected, I did not mean to infer that anyone who disagrees with these blogs are "trolls".
It seems that there are some who purely want to argue for the sake of argument.
As I mentioned to the gentleman who corrected me, I suppose my age is showing :)
- Don
Lynn
"Watching: Please get away from the computer for awhile. You have been at it all day and late into last night. It is messing up your mind."
David Brown
9:34 PM, April 30, 2007
I just thought it would be fun to put together a collage of opinions that may indicate that we all may be at the computer too long.
No point intended (I am speaking in my Edmond Ford voice, my WH voice is not that good and my utilities are still on!)
I had fun doing it.
ima,
I enjoyed your post re the "fillers" at the political speech. My daughter was at an event at the arena here in Memphis a couple of years ago and sitting right next to her was a cardboard cutout of Bill Clinton. That was a little more than she could bear so she and her friends relocated him in the ladies room. Good thing BBC security wasn't around..she would have gone to jail in handcuffs.
MOM4 said...
ima,
I enjoyed your post re the "fillers" at the political speech. My daughter was at an event at the arena here in Memphis a couple of years ago and sitting right next to her was a cardboard cutout of Bill Clinton. That was a little more than she could bear so she and her friends relocated him in the ladies room. Good thing BBC security wasn't around..she would have gone to jail in handcuffs.
9:21 PM, May 01, 2007
Mom4, you owe me a monitor now....I just ruined it spewing my Coke Zero all over it laughing at that story of the Cardboard cut out of Bill Clinton. Thanks for the laugh :).
Lynn
Lynn,
I laugh every time I think of it - really LOL!!
Apparently that is a common practice in the secular world of commercialism, you know, where appearances are everything and deception is used to sell the latest and greatest.
iMom4...said, "Apparently that is a common practice in the secular world of commercialism, you know, where appearances are everything and deception is used to sell the latest and greatest."
Reply...Mom4, yes and this marketing strategy has moved right on into the church just beautifully wouldn't you say? Hmmm...no doubt about it.
lynn,
I almost forgot, my daughter had said there were several cardboard celebrities at this event. Michael Jordan, Shaq O'Neil, Elvis, Celine Dion, Jack Nicholson and others. But Bill is the only one she was too close to - too close for comfort that is.. I am glad you got a laugh out of it, sorry about your monitor:(
Has anyone gotten their May/June Bellevue Messenger yet? I don't think I've received mine, but was looking on Bellevue.org, clicked on the messenger to scan thru it.
The letter from our pastor is not King Steve...it's football jock Steve, dressed in football uniform and big hair. Running the race, another self-serving message.
It's not all about Jamie, it's all about Jamie, Steve & Donna.
I'm trying to get through Steve's new book "When God Comes to Church", which I personally believe the title alone is blasphemy.
On page 59,
"Back then movies were fairly wholesome. My, how things have changed.
Nowadays Hollywood rarely produces a movie I really enjoy."
_________
If I recall correctly, Steve Gaines said many time publicly he went to see "Walk The Line" 6 times. This was shortly after becoming our pastor.
In fact, one of those times involved him preaching on Sunday night and then hightailing it down to the local theatre to meet another staff member Ryan Wingo to view it again.
Here is a movie review from "Christian Spotlight" that had this to say about this movie:
"Included in the film are a few situations that one may want to be aware of. Many scenes show Cash popping pills and drinking alcohol, as well as bumbling around under the influence of these substances. There are a few instances of foul language, including the Lord’s name being taken in vain and the use of the f-word. John is also alluded to having affairs with girls while on tour, and sleeps with June while he is still married to his first wife, Vivian (Ginnifer Goodwin). There is no nudity, but this film unapologetically details the failures and foibles of this man’s life."
This is just another example of Steve Gaines out of control in this case writing something that sounds good but living a double life.
I for one don't want my pastor bragging about going to see this type of filth.
For anyone out there who says Johnny Cash got saved, I've heard his testimony and I'm glad he got saved.
However, this movie was not about Johnny Cash getting saved. That would be perhaps in Walk The Line 2.
This is disturbing and I'm outraged that he would mislead people in his book.
This book should be recalled immediately.
nathanb,
Steves minister's license should have been recalled when they recalled PW's.
Page 61
"The early Christians had little but God, yet they changed their world. Today we Christians have vast resources, but the world seems to be changing us."
"They didn't have nice carpet."
__________
Well Steve,
I would certainly agree with this statement but I'm not sure why you would include this in your book.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you did have the church rip new carpet out of your office upon your arrival and have it replaced because it wasn't soft enough for your feet.
A new thicker pad would not do. It had to be completely replaced because you like to walk around the office barefoot.
As members, we don't think this is a good way to spend God's money and it certainly didn't send a good message for you as a new pastor to be so arrogant and demand this unneccesary expense upon Bellevue Baptist Church.
I'm appalled.
sheepless,
You are so correct.
After reading this Blog for a short time and my wife telling me I need to stay away from the gossip, here is a passage that I would like to share.
Proverbs 10:19-21
19 When words are many, sin is not absent, but he who holds his tongue is wise.
20 The tongue of the righteous is choice silver,but the heart of the wicked is of little value.
21 The lips of the righteous nourish many,but fools die for lack of judgment.
Let me guess. You and your wife are among the "righteous." We are the wicked fools, right? Just want to make sure I understand. If that's what you think, perhaps you should follow your wife's advice.
Ephesians 4:14-15
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
If you missed Dr. AR on LWF this morning (7am WCRV 640am in Memphis) you really really owe it to yourself to click on the link and give it a listen.
L W F
I was thinking about 1 Peter 5:8 yesterday and boom, today AR is quoting it and preaching about it.
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Thanks, Nathan.
17 years ago when the "drop out dad" was being introduced to the SBC, the church was told that the father should be the primary source of teaching in the home and the absentee father was criticized for neglecting his role.
The man who stands before God right now knows that what I am writing is the truth. He understands negligence and He knows that his negligence is the primary source of BBC's problems.
He like many father's today are so busying saving the world that they forget the home.
watching.....
One thing is certain, you cannot prove the case you present. Whatever your agenda it seems your protestations are hollow. And to quote scripture related to this borders on blasphemy.
I am new writting on this blog but have been lurking for months. As a longtime member of BBC, I am heartsick and amazed at ALL that has transpired in less than 2 yrs.
Like so many, I truly anticipated even more great things for our church under the leadership of our new pastor. I remember Dr. Rogers lovingly washing Dr. Gaines feet and symbolically handing the mantle over to him. But, from almost the beginning I sensed something was wrong. I tried to shake off that feeling and blamed it on just the adjustment of being under new leadership. I kept quiet about my misgivings...as I'm sure many others did. Then things happened that were so obviously wrong, they could not be ignored. I wrote Bro. Steve early on asking him to please be sensitive to his hurting flock (we were grieving Dr. Rogers' sudden death) and to please slow down with the changes. Neither happened. I am one who believes in the principle of being under God-given authority so I (and my family) have tried very hard to carry on as best we could in the midst of all this turmoil. It has been almost 2 yrs. now and the reality is the Bellevue that we knew and loved and invested our lives in no longer exists. We will leave quietly but our hearts are grieving for what was and what could have been.
32yrs,
There are many of us like you who have been grieving for over a year now once we realized a mistake had been made.
I want to list the names of the search committee that selected Steve Gaines for us.
Chuck Taylor
Pat Caldwell
Bryan Miller
Harry Smith
Jeff Arnold Jr.
Steve Tucker
Mark Spiller
Eric Brand
Bob Sorrell
Faye Hardy
I list these names because they were supposed to be the leader of leaders at Bellevue.
Correct me if I'm wrong but they have all but dissappeared from the face of the earth.
Do they have an obligation after all that has been said and documented about Steve Gaines to help remove him?
I don't see or hear any of them working to restore Belleuve.
On the contrary, they have run for the hills to hide while the church continues to be ripped to shreds.
I guess the leaders we think are leaders are not always who we think they are.
Is it pride that stands in their way?
Removal of Steve Gaines immediately and the voluntary stepping down of these "elders" along with a new pastor who loves the sheep will restore Bellevue to being a church again.
Outside of that, I am sad to say I agree with you, Bellevue no longer exists.
With all due respect, 32+, I believe too many people have left quietly. If more people let their feelings be known, and took the consequences of their stand, eyes might be opened and others influenced. I really believe silence has been a large contributing factor to the demise of our beloved church. Too many people have left quietly without fighting to defend BBC. Read John 2: 13-17.
32yrs@bbc said...
It has been almost 2 yrs. now and the reality is the Bellevue that we knew and loved and invested our lives in no longer exists. We will leave quietly but our hearts are grieving for what was and what could have been.
32 yrs,
I too, am a longtime member, almost 35 yrs, and the pain and loss of everything Bellevue was, is tremendous. Bellevue's legacy under Dr. Rogers, Dr. Pollard and Dr. Lee and the wonderful ministers that went before them is a history that cannot be tarnished by the current pastor and some in leadership.
I was attempting to get to binwonderin's link to listen to LWF, Dr. Rogers message this morning and got to the message by test fighter pilot Russell O'Quinn, (I heard him in person when he was at Bellevue). His message and plan of salvation and call to accepting Jesus as our personal savior is so sincere and Christ honoring.
As the camera's came into the sanctuary, everyone's faces look happy. So many now, look unhappy, hollow, empty, hurt, void.
Is leaving the answer or do we hang on a little longer in hopes our once great Bellevue family will be restored? When is enough, enough...when God gives us the clear direction of stay or go.
Interesting comment from the blog referred to in the topic heading:
Been Redeemed said...
Witness, concerned and others on staff,
I too am staff, former staff. I scooted out early on, pre the need for dislosure agreements. I believe the Lord moved me because He knew I would get fired for my stand in support of my scriptural convictions about the things going on at BBC, He knew I had a family depending on me and He also knew that I could not place my faith and convictions on a back burner to serve under a man who is of questionable character, integrity and doctrine. The Lord has taken care of me and my family and He will take care of you too if you stand for Him, and of course you already know that, but I also know that the biggest change will be when the staff makes a stand. I sometimes wonder if I should have stayed and fought, but I know that I would have been fired early on if I did, such as others have. I saw a lot before my departure and I stand amazed at some of the current staff who are vehemently supporting Dr Gaines and sheilding him from those who would expose him for what he truly is. I also wonder the condition of their spiritual walk with the Lord. The fact that some are still supporting the 25K to the FUMC, something that Dr Rogers would have firmly opposed on scriptural and moral grounds, shocks me. I worked with these men, I cannot believe their lack of spiritual judgement and discernment is so devoid of wisdom. I also worked with PW, talked almost daily, and while I did not know of his secret sin, I now look back and see that same covering of sin in our pastor, a secret sin that he covers well. Something is not right with him spiritually, and I believe many on staff know it. Several of us former and current staffers are praying daily for someone to expose him. If any of you know anything, pray about coming forward with it. Bring it out here on this blog and remain annonymous if you must, but be prepared to stand and you will be surprised how many of us will be standing beside you.
8:53 PM
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