This will be a continuation of the original Wolves in the Music Ministry post. The comment stream was getting pretty long.
The cover-up of John Langworthy's "indiscretions" and "mistakes" (his words) while at Prestonwood is coming back to bite as evidenced by the lead story by Brett Shipp on WFAA-TV's August 8th 10:00 p.m. broadcast. Thank you, Amy, for your advocacy for victims and for your persistence in bringing this story to light. If it were not for your efforts I have no doubt nothing would have changed.
WFAA-TV >> Disturbing revelations about former Prestonwood minister
Bob Allen has addressed this story:
Associated Baptist Press >> Abuse confession raises questions of cover-up by Baptist mega-church
Associated Baptist Press >> Pastor renews call for database of clergy credibly accused of sex abuse
Associated Baptist Press >> Christa Brown >> Opinion: Prestonwood saga shows clergy abuse database is overdue
It also made the newspapers:
August 9th:
Dallas Morning News >> Former Prestonwood minister admits to 'sexual indiscretions' with students more than 20 years ago
Clarion Ledger >> Clinton music minister confesses to 'sexual indiscretions'
Clarion Ledger >> Clinton minister quits over allegations
August 10th:
The Republic >> Recently resigned music minister admits long-ago sexual misconduct with teen boys
Hattiesburg American >> Ex-music minister admits past sexual misconduct
August 15th:
Clarion Ledger >> Man accuses former Clinton music minister of molestation
Clarion Ledger >> Ex-choir leader in sex probe
August 19th:
Clarion Ledger >> Hinds DA office probes molestation claims against former Clinton music minister
August 20th:
Clarion Ledger >> DA probing sex abuse allegations
The Oklahoman >> Enid pastor renews call for clergy sex abuse database
And Jackson, MS TV:
August 9th:
WAPT-TV >> Former Youth Minister, Teacher Makes Startling Admission
WLBT-TV >> Clinton music minister makes eye-opening confession
August 10th:
WAPT-TV >> No Criminal Complaints Filed Against Former Minister
WJTV-TV >> Former Music Minister Admits To Sexual Indiscretions
WJTV-TV >> Clinton Parents in Shock Over Former Minister's Confession
WJTV-TV >> Ex-Music Minister Admits Past Sexual Misconduct
August 11th:
FOX 40 >> Church Scandal
August 15th:
WAPT-TV >> Clinton Police Investigate Complaint Against Former Minister
WLBT-TV >> Former Clinton church music minister under investigation
WJTV-TV >> Police To Meet With Minister's Alleged Victim
August 16th:
WAPT-TV >> Former Minister's Accuser Expected To Speak To Police
August 19th:
WLBT-TV >> Questions about sexual misconduct continue for music minister
Around the Blogosphere:
Wade Burleson >> Full Circle: Why the SBC Child Predator Database Is Needed Now, Not Later (Comments have been reopened.)
FBC Jax Watchdog >> In the Langworthy/Prestonwood Story, Bloggers Once Again Show They are Sorely Needed to Get Truth Out
Zwinglius Redivivus >> The Catholics Aren’t The Only Ones Who Cover Up Their Clergy’s Evils
The Wartburg Watch >> Does the SBC Fear Women Pastors More Than The Molestation of Children?
Wade Burleson >> The Reason the SBC Will Not Create a Minister Sex Abuse Data Base Is Liability, Not Polity
A now-former teacher at Prestonwood Christian Academy was recently indicted for having an inproper relationship with a 17-year-old female student. Although the student went to his apartment willingly on several occasions, he was 26 at the time. In Texas it's a second-degree felony, regardless of the parties' ages, for an educator to have an improper relationship with a student.
Plano Star >> Former Prestonwood teacher indicted
Then there was Joe Barron.
Barron videos
Apparently Johnson and Barron's cases were handled swiftly by the administration at Prestonwood. However, Barron's story was plastered all over the national news at the time, and Johnson's was covered in the local news, so they really didn't have much choice. With Langworthy it's less clear about the timeline and who knew what when, but apparently the church and school district in Clinton were never warned about him.
If a database of convicted, confessed, and credibly accused sexual predators was available to Baptist churches, and if the churches would avail themselves of it, a lot of these cases could be prevented. When will Baptist leaders wake up, stop covering for their own, and establish some method of accountability within their ranks? I know, I know! Baptist churches are autonomous. Unless, of course, they do something really bad like call a woman preacher. Autonomy is such a relative term in "Baptistland."
TRANSCRIPT of John Langworthy's August 7, 2011 statement to Morrison Heights Baptist Church
VIDEO
261 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 261 of 261For jt
To anonymous at 4:45pm
Thank goodness for another sensible parent who has put the well being of children first! I'm with ya!
Thank you Amy Smith for posting the information on how to contact the local SNAP chapter. I hope many will learn we have a local chapter in Jackson. I had no idea there was such an organization before this blog began. If there are other victims out there, I fear they would be scared to come forward to the police. I wonder if the school has made any offers to help any children that need someone to talk to? I know MHBC did but I believe that will be a difficult place for a victim to find comfort and that is such a shame. MHBC is a great church.
Thank you for your deligent work Amy.Keep it up.
Wow! ...and this is why Christ is considered a joke by so many people. You people have a Christian website to gossip, gossip, gossip...you forget Christ's unconditional love. You people forget that you are just as filthy as the accusations you blabber on and on about! I'm sick from reading your word vomit!
WAPT-TV >> Former Minister's Accuser Expected To Speak To Police
Shades of things to come?
FOX 40 >> High School Coach Gets 25 Years in Molestation Case
Anonymous @10:27 said...
Wow! ...and this is why Christ is considered a joke by so many people. You people have a Christian website to gossip, gossip, gossip...you forget Christ's unconditional love. You people forget that you are just as filthy as the accusations you blabber on and on about! I'm sick from reading your word vomit!"
1. John Langworthy has confessed that he molested boys under his care and supervision as a babysitter and later as a youth pastor/minister of music. So it isn't gossip.
2. Besides the fact that he did those things, the biggest problem that most people here are warring against are the cover-ups of the crimes that Prestonwood Baptist & Morris Heights Baptist have participated in.
Prestonwood sent the known child molester out into the world to prey on more innocent victims while they treated the boy victims at Prestonwood like garbage by breaking the law and refusing to report the admitted pedophile to law enforcement.
I suppose the coming lawsuits will hash all this out, but it's going to be interesting to find out if Pastor Jack Graham gave John Langworthy a glowing recommendation when Morris Heights called to get a reference.
God's love is not unconditional in the sense that the predator of children is not held responsible for his crimes against the innocent.
And you know what else? If the pastors, elders and lawyers all involved in the current cesspoool had done the right thing from jump street, they wouldn't all find themselves stuck to this tar baby of sick sexual sin they allowed to be perpetrated on innocent people.
"I loved JL as much as anyone and trusted him with my son, "
Mistake 1
Mistake 2
"Trust and Obey" seems to be the probem here.
Just quit drinking the Kool Aid at church and you'll be much safer because you'll never be sure when a John Langworthy or a Paul Williams is lurking around the corner.
Wow! ...and this is why Christ is considered a joke by so many people. You people have a Christian website to gossip, gossip, gossip...you forget Christ's unconditional love. You people forget that you are just as filthy as the accusations you blabber on and on about! I'm sick from reading your word vomit!"
-------------------------------
Not sure if I did the "tag" correctly but in response to this person's post. Shame on you. Shame on you if you have children. These are CHILDREN that were abused by John when he was 29-30 years old. Do you understand this?
Do you not realize we are hurt/angry/betrayed and we have the right and need to voice, complain, shout & be enraged?
Pffft is all I can say to you. Yes I'm all about forgiveness, understanding, turning the other cheek. But let me tell you something - I have the right to be angry. I have the right to question a lot of things. I've known John since his early college days. This hurts because my children were a part of this church and the school system.
So bury your head in the sand & don't worry about it okay? Better yet, don't bother coming back to this site. Because we will continue to question, chat & yes it's chatting - not gossiping because John has already ADMITTED to his sins FINALLY. But it's ONLY after it was brought to the surface.
Glad someone had the balls/guts to bring it out.
But I am tired of the church of Morrison Heights being to blame. They investigated and John resigned. Want to place blame? Go to Texas and go to the school system of Clinton, MS. They knew the details. They chose to brush it under the rug & pretend it never happened. The church TOLD John he needed to make a statement and he did, yes it took him a few months, but obviously he was covering his bases & trying to find words to make it seem all was okay in his world. Guess what, it doesn't change the fact of what he did, and it was a LAME statement at best.
Sign me ... Clinton Moms Against Pedophiles (CMAP)
To CMAP:
"Like"
I noticed that SG made it onto Les Puryear's blog today.
JL is these churches AGENT legally-when PBC turned him loose without obeying the mandatory reporting law they will probably be found partially liable for his actions against your son. If the other church knew months before and exposed their children to this risk he is also their agent during those months they knew and they could bear part of the responsibility. This is serious for these churches in spite of their rationalizations. you have moved out of the church sphere of authority and into God's minister of justice the government and they bear not the sword in vain
Clarion Ledger >> Hinds DA office probes molestation claims against former Clinton music minister
This entire blog is very cluttered with people saying the exact same things. It is agonizingly painful to read and gather any information that might be new.
The Oklahoman >> Enid pastor renews call for clergy sex abuse database
Call me cynical, but I'll believe it when I see it. As one commenter said, "There is a reason most churches decide to hide the bad things that former clergy and staff do, it's a legal standpoint. There are grave consequences to libel and slander at risk. State law mandates you keep your mouth shut if you don't want to get involved in a costly legal battle. Very often, the best thing for a church to do is to stick with the law in regards to job referrals. You simply state when the person worked, and what position they held. Anything else is legally risky."
What about the laws requiring a church to report suspected abuse? What about the risk to future victims? These churches seem to be more worried about protecting themselves and the abusers than the victims.
Anon 12:51,
I am posting dated links in the comment stream and on the front page to new information as it becomes available. Look for the latest dates to see the latest information I have available. I just posted an article from The Oklahoman about Wade Burleson's renewed call for a clergy sex abuse database. There hasn't been much new information the past few days.
Do you have any suggestions that would make it easier for you to find new information?
Also, the comments are in order by time posted. Simply note where you left off and start from there when you return as there will be no new comments upthread.
Just wanted to say thank you for keeping the blog going with all the newest information posted. I check here everyday to see if anyone else has commented and especially for the most current news articles. I am extremely drawn to this case, and it makes it easy to come here and find everything in one spot instead of looking all over the web.
You're welcome, Midge.
Here's another one:
Clarion Ledger >> DA probing sex abuse allegations
Wade Burleson > The Reason the SBC Will Not Create a Minister Sex Abuse Data Base Is Liability, Not Polity
ABP News > Opinion: Prestonwood saga shows clergy abuse database is overdue By Christa Brown
Thanks, Thy Link!
:-)
I read an article Saturday Morning in the Clarion Ledger that stated the District Attorney's office had met with and questioned JL. I don't think you have that one posted yet.
I posted the last Clarion Ledger article I found on their website.
Clarion Ledger >> DA probing sex abuse allegations
If there's another one, could you please provide the link?
WLBT-TV >> Questions about sexual misconduct continue for music minister
Amy Smith and other former PBC youth may not have known where JL was, but I sure did.
In about 2004, shortly after I used "google" as a verb for the first time, I did an Internet search to see whatever happened to JL. I've known exactly where he is since then, and was shocked that he was working with kids, but I didn't contact anyone to try to change that. I have felt so guilty since this story broke earlier in the month. Could I have started the process earlier than Amy Smith did?
I attended PBC in the early to mid-1980s but I was not one of his victims; in fact, to this day I don't know their names for sure. I do know that there WERE victimS, plural, because a staff member told me directly about it. And I knew that PBC staff wanted to make it go away ASAP. As a teenager, I thought the reason no charges were filed was because the boys' families decided that was the best thing to do.
So in 2004, I thought I didn't really know enought to do anything, and that MHBC must surely have talked to PBC becuase you check references, and that someone surely must have known and been taking some kind of precautions, no matter how insufficient. So I did nothing but Google again every 6 months or so. I didn't think that PBC might have actively covered up, or that MHBC might not have even known how long JL worked at PBC, or anything like that.
I don't know what I expect to happen by posting this, but I feel like I have to get it out. I wouldn't have known what to do in 2004, but if I could have figured it out maybe some kids in Clinton would have been protected.
Well, it has been several weeks now and nothing has become of this..JL has just been allowed to leave 2 jobs and move on I guess. I suppose he will soon move to another community and now that his family, wife and daughters know and there have been so much about databases and background checks hopefully if they do move away from Clinton they can live the rest of their lives out quietly and with no further abuse to children. I guess he just needed this to stop him but I sure hope there are truly no other victims out there. I can't decide whether I feel like there may be or may not be. I thought I knew JL but now I know that I never really did and it scares me to death to know that I let my son go with him on all of the choir trips thru his youth. Someone mentioned to me that their child had actually roomed with JL on a few trips with others in the group...do you think that MHBC should get the roster in the records of all the children that have ever gone on any one of those trips and especially the kids that roomed with him and make sure the parents are aware of all of this. SO many could have been victimized even in their sleep. I am not playing light on this. That just scares me to death. I will never NEVER trust another person with my children, nieces or nephews or grandchildren It really hits home for us parents who let our children in his care. I still attend MHBC but since the coming out in front of church nothing has been mentioned ... it is almost like taboo to mention it or talk about it there. I haven't seen JL at church but his wife is still in attendance. I sure hope she didn't know about all of this.
Someone mentioned to me that their child had actually roomed with JL on a few trips with others in the group...do you think that MHBC should get the roster in the records of all the children that have ever gone on any one of those trips and especially the kids that roomed with him and make sure the parents are aware of all of this.
I think this is an excellent idea. To the people from MHBC who are reading this blog, how about it?
I attended 6 years of choir trips with John and it was standard procedure that the adults roomed with students. In most of those years we actually stayed in large rooms that accommodated any where from 4 to 12 students in one room. We would usually have 1 or 2 adult chaperones (parents). John's wife and sometimes even his kids came on these trips with us. I can only think of one year where we stayed in rooms of less than 3 per room and my room only had students in it. I can't imagine that MHBC has kept a record of that after all these years.
Well, it has been several weeks now and nothing has become of this..JL has just been allowed to leave 2 jobs and move on I guess.
Have you read the media coverage? Links are on the front page in case you missed it.
Guilty PBC Youth said...
"I have felt so guilty since this story broke earlier in the month. Could I have started the process earlier than Amy Smith did?"
If you are guilty, dozens of us are guilty. As stated previously, we were teenagers who grew into adults over the years. It was up to our leaders at PBC to make sure JL didn't move on to another church. Plain and simple.
A family member spoke to Jack Graham about this situation last week and conveyed how confused/upset/angry some of us are after realizing PBC's culpability in failing to report JL's "indiscretions" to the police. Dr. Graham told this family member that he spent exactly three minutes with JL (remember, Graham was newly on staff at the time): 1 minute to question him about the allegations, 1 minute to listen to JL's response, and 1 minute to terminate his employment at PBC.
When questioned about why the allegations weren't reported to the Dallas PD, Dr. Graham responded that the family of "the alleged victim" didn't want to press charges and didn't want their son's name associated with any scandal. While that family's feelings are totally understandable, PBC was still responsible for reporting the alleged wrongdoing to the authorities. I think PBC publicly accepting some of this responsibility would go some of the distance toward healing.
Stop throwing blame at MHBC and CPS. Seems to me you are very happy to throw stones at Clinton and leave out Amy Smith. She could have forced the issue 22 years ago. If she felt so called called to our JL, she could have done it then.. she did not, she is not a hero, she is just someone casting stones. I believe that JL will pay for his crimes against children as well he should, but he is not the only one suffering. Think of his kids, father, siblings, wife. While you chew up and spit out Clinton, the church and school, you yourself are committing sin. And in the eyes of GOD, your sin is no different than JL's. maybe you should be torn to shreds as well.
to JT...You owe them big time.
Let's see, Amy Smith had years to out John, she waits 22 years before she rips a community apart, please please let me be the first to say thanks, FOR NOTHING. Do not presume to know anything about us. I am a member of MHBC, and we do not stick our heads in the sand. Do not presume to know our pastor or know how our church should act. THIS IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. AND TRUST ME I HAVE PLENTY OF GUTS TO STAND UP TO BULLIES LIKE YOU.
"Our JL"?
Wow...if this is how the people of MHBC act I am embarrassed to say I am part of the church too....everyone does not act like that or think like that...if this do gooder from MHBC doesn't have their head in the sand then they would know that it was God's doing to bring Amy Smith to find JL and alert us. This MHBC person is one of few..go back to your wash bin or whatever you are doing and get with the times. WOW
To Anonymous 7:50PM:
The Bible is clear. In the eyes of our perfect God, Amy Smith's sin is the same as John's. And without the blood of Christ, she would get "ripped to shreds" in hell. Amy has given her heart to Jesus, and he has washed her white as snow. And he can do the same for John, for you, for me, for anyone. His grace is free, complete, and beautiful.
There's a major problem with your post: Amy's sin doesn't include felony child molestation. Like you said, John should go to prison for his crimes. The Bible is just as clear on this topic as well. Calling for his prosecution has nothing to do with his position in Christ. There are plenty of Christians who go to jail, and even more people who finally find Him there.
John's family has, and will continue, to suffer. But that blame lies entirely on John's shoulders. By molesting children, he has brought pain on his victims, his family, his friends, and now an entire community. Choices, especially bad ones, have consequences.
Guilty PBC youth said...
"And I knew that PBC staff wanted to make it go away ASAP."
What can Wash away Bad News, nothing but the Blood of Quietness ...... Oh
Backyard BBQ said...
"There are plenty of Christians who go to jail,"
Don't you just love this religion... its all about sin, sin, sin and who gets away with it and who doesn't.
regarding the post from a PBC Youth that Jack Graham only spent 3 minutes with John......
I am so sorry that this is the story and explanation that he is trying to send to everyone...and I can assure you that you are not the first person that this has been told to. The statement that the parents did not want to report these offenses is NOT TRUE! I know this for a fact.
But...more importantly...even if that was a fact...Prestonwood still had a LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY to report a crime to the police. If the parents then decide not to press charges (which is not what happened) then so be it...but that does not release Prestonwood from reporting it. They were legally required by the state of Texas to report a crime to the police. They had heard from the victims, parents and John himself. Jack should have taken another ONE MINUTE to call the police.(or better yet, if this was not an important enough matter for him that it only required 3 minutes of his time, then his attorneys should have made this phone call to the police) That was the responsibility of the church.
My issue is that churches are doing a great job these days of proactive protection of their churches (IE: background checks, etc) but they are consistently doing a very poor job in REACTIVE protection, regarding reporting abuse to local law enforcement once something has happened within a church! You have to have both! This is why I do this for a living, go into churches and train them! If you have a church, know of a church, or are a member of a church, and you need this training in your own church...please let me know. Send me an email so I can contact you. This has to stop! I agree with a database in the SBC to do this very thing and I am very frustrated with the response of the SBC regarding this very serious issue.
professional,
How would someone contact you?
To those who have a problem with John not making a statement ASAP, one reason is this, his mom(and she was a precious, Godly lady)was dying of cancer. The family was going thru alot and I am sure they did not want this story to break on one of her last days on earth. Amy Smith(saint that she is, lol)began her blog 2 days after her death.
To Anon 9:13pm
Go back to your wash bin, how mature and rightous of you. If you are a member of MHBC, how can you sit back allow people to throw stones at our church, piously I might add, and then call names?? This is not about what John did, we know he admitted it. this has become about throwing blame as to why it took so long for it to come out. Amy Smith should answer that one.
Anon 2:55,
You're probably correct about that being one of the factors in the timing of JL's statement. I think the story going public was a bigger factor. Belser's July 31st sermon was a lead-in to that, too.
What I don't understand is why it took so long for this story to make it around the Clintonian grapevine. Amy Smith's comment (this is not her blog) was posted on May 27th. I Googled JL's name for over two months after that, and the only peep about this was on this blog.
I didn't find his mother's obituary until June 18th, so the timing of this blog had nothing to do with that. Contrary to what some wish to believe, I am sensitive to the feelings of his daughters and wife. They don't deserve the fallout from his actions.
Please make no mistake about it. This is all the result of his choices (not "mistakes" or "indiscretions" but conscious choices), nobody else's. Not Amy's, not mine, not the victims' or their parents', nobody's but his.
for anyone who wants to contact me about training for your church regarding sexual offenders, please contact me at:
sherry@protectinginnocents.com
It's sad to see so many people from MHBC on the defensive. Admittedly, some comments have been pretty nasty, but most of us are praying for you, MHBC. I especially am, because I know the grief this causes a church because of my late husband's actions (I'm not going to repeat my story, but it you back up to comments from Marie, it's there. I think it's important to acknowledge that perhaps some things were handled right and some things were handled wrong. I'm not going to pass judgment because I wasn't there. However, this is an opportunity for MHBC to examine what their response was and look at what could have been done differently (I think everyone here will agree that none of us are perfect, and our response can always be improved). My hope is that MHBC's staff will analyze what they could have done differently, then use that to help educate other churches so that they can be better prepared for this is it happens in their church. The only real blame I see here that we can definitively place is on John Langworthy for the abuse and Prestonwood for failing to report it to authorities. No matter what their position on grace, forgiveness, etc., they had a LEGAL responsibility to report even SUSPECTED abuse. It's up to the authorities to determine if the allegations are true or not. My pastor went with me to report the abuse in my situation because he had a legal obligation to do so (he would have anyway because it's the right thing to do, too!). He then left it with the authorities to investigate. He continued to reach out to my husband and minister to him, but he also encouraged my husband to "man up" and accept the consequences for his actions.
I hope and pray that valuable lessons can be learned from this situation so MHBC and other churches can be better prepared for things like this in the future. No church wants to think about what they'd do if something like this happened, but all churches should have procedures in place in case an allegation is made. For example, the minister should be placed on administrative leave (with pay, if desired) and removed from all responsibilities that involve children or youth. The authorities should be informed, and the church should fully cooperate with the investigation. Then, if the allegations are false, restore the minister to his responsibilities. If they are true, encourage him to accept the consequences of his actions and repent of his sin. He should never be restored to working in ministry, but perhaps new avenues of working for the Lord can be found (even in prison!).
I'm praying for you MHBC.
OMG WOW again....the reason why it took so long for this story or info about JL to get out in Clinton was because that is how these people work...they hide things, they enter the liquor store thru the back door or after dark, they point fingers at others for discussions about themselves but will be glad to gossip about "an outsider". This is the level of intelligence most of them have..."no gossip" only if it suits them and if it is with the right person...WHO CARES..I bet this person doesn't even have a child who was even put at risk with JL. I choose to keep reading and posting on this blog so I can vent and get more info as the story progresses. This will not just go away until CPS and MHBC stop trying to act like nothing happened. Not another word has been said at church..just acting like nothing happened...we just have a new interim music minister out of the blue, dropped out of the sky just because...okay just keep on your "Christian path" and keep the blinders on ..then when something happens to you act like you are shocked??>?>?>!
Anonymous, concerning your statement: "we just have a new interim music minister out of the blue, dropped out of the sky just because.." That statement betrays an intent to be critical, no matter what. What do you expect the church to do? The worship of God must continue, however much the church is burdened. The most ready individual who can step in is the minister who coordinates music ministries for the State Baptist Convention, and this is what has happened. It is normal for a church to authorize their leadership to engage someone from the State Convention for interim service. It is entirely appropriate. God expects His church to worship while healing. You are grasping at straws here.
I was not saying anything bad about having a new minister, I was saying it just seems like everyone acts like nothing happened...you need to relax, you remind me of a angry, backwoods, holy roller. YIKES, I have my opinion of things not being addressed to us "lay people" and that is that. No one is being critical about anything except people not addressing things, this is the only place this discussion is happening and not in real time with person to person. YIKES calm down. (NO STONES BEING THROWN, seems like you are back in the witch hunt times??)
Anon, 3:36pm,
Please refrain from calling people backwood, holy rollers, etc...this is throwing stones. and one suggestion is if you do not like the way MHBC handled the John situation, you are free to go somewhere else where your not so nice opinion can be vented more further.
Question to Amy Smith,
Why did you wait so long to come forward. If justice means so much to you, why wait all these years. Please do not tell me it is because you did not know where he was, that is easily found out. You waited, you helped allow this to go on all these years. WHY???? there is no good reason, and now look at the mess. JL should pay for what he has done, yest, but if there is anymore victims, do you accept blame as well?
Sorry, Anonymous. I'm not on a tear or a witch-hunt, and, FYI, I am a total outsider...I'm not a member of that church, but merely a concerned observer. I do think that some of the responders seem anxious to judge, when we must always ask the question, "What must the church do now?" Whatever has been done or not done is in the past. The investigation is now in process. It remains for the church to ask forgiveness where appropriate, then move on about the business of being God's people, and that seems to be what they are doing. Tell you what, as a forgiven sinner myself (and I assume most of us are in that boat), I will continue to pray for them, for the victims, for the accused, and for the family. May I assume you will do the same?
First of all, I don't go to the liquor store late at night or thru the back door I buy it straight off the Kroger shelf any time of the day & night as allowed by law. So enough with your words & accusations.
If you want answers, go talk to the Elders or the Pastor before you throw around your words, accusations and "what ifs".
I'm really tired of our church, members being slammed in this blog. I would think, just like myself, the main reason people are talking about it is because we're mostly all in shell shock. I know I am because my kids were raised in this church the majority of their life & I've known John since college as well as many of the members have known John for that long or longer.
I never suspected anything like this and until I received a phone call about this blog - I was unaware of anything. I still didn't believe it until I heard the words from his mouth.
I think it's time to stop the blame game and go to the person that actually did the acts (John) and quit throwing mud everywhere else.
So what if we hired a new music interium, what were we suppose to do? Do nothing???? Wait it out? Geez louise, the situation with John was NOT our fault, it was not known when he was hired unless the person hiring him (Hal) knew of his past. Why not call and ask him?
Until then, as many have said - leave us alone. We're not covering it up, we're just processing it ! Goodness alive, many of you have had 22 years to process it since you've known about it that long. We've barely had a little over a month !!!!!
Give us some space & quit talking about our town & our church. Learn the law - until someone presses charges, the police cannot do anything. If you don't like the laws, go talk to your represnatives. We don't control the law !!!
We seem to have reached a resting point with this issue. May I suggest that we do for ourselves what the church has already done. That is, back off, think, pray, and allow investigations to take their way. Perhaps the Forum could switch to another topic while this happens, until conclusions by authorities are reached. "Waiting on the Lord" is a good thing, practiced by Jesus for forty days, we must remember. I am burdened for everyone involved. Let us turn away for awhile, and come back when we know more, or when God works within us to see more of the picture. God's peace to all.
The forum has switched to a new topic, three times to be exact, since this story was posted. I left this one at the top for the convenience of our out-of-town readers who are not interested in Bellevue stuff. Scroll down the front page for newer topics.
Thank you New BBC Open Forum for this blog and for all your postings. I appreciate all of the info I have gotten on this blog and will continue to check it daily. Technology is wonderful..especially in the communications field.
Wow! Once again we have all this talk about Amy’s sin and again for the umpteenth time pleas for us to go away while very little about the pedophile’s crimes. If anyone in Clinton or the surrounding area thinks for one second anyone rejoices in any of this you are sadly mistaken. For several of us we have experienced firsthand what you are feeling right now. We have experienced the betrayal, the hurt, the shock and the certainly the anger when a church family finds out one of their most respected leaders is an admitted pedophile. It was so horrible and here once again we see yet another church family suffering the same emotions.
As far as Amy’s sins I would suggest we are all sinners but saved by grace but to even dare to throw any blame on her is just as big of a sin you so quickly accuse her of. When it comes to the JL situation, Amy has nothing to apologize for. You quickly gloss over the one that is responsible for all of this; JL. You challenge us with comments, what about his wife and children, you don’t know us; stay away, our leaders have done everything thing they could, etc. All those are understandable but please don’t let those be excuses lighten the crimes an admitted pedophile has committed. He put himself back around children in a big way when he came back. And as of yet we have not heard anything from his accountability partners on how they monitored him. If he wanted accountability why in the world wasn’t his pastor an accountability partner?
I read a recent comment for us to back off until more is known and let the investigations run their course. For God’s sake what more do you have to know? Isn’t the fact that he has admitted to sexually abusing innocent children enough? Do I think there will be a conviction? The answer to that is no. Very rarely are there convictions for pedophiles after such a long time. If he is not convicted or there is no prosecution will that take away his own admission of guilt? Please tell me you aren’t going to restore him to the ministry.
One more time, there is NO one rejoicing over any of this. No not one. It hurts us to see you going thru what you are. Was in necessary? NO, if he had elected to get real counseling, stay away from children and been truthful with all of you none of this would have been necessary. Your church will survive and so will you. Sometimes the Lord does test us with fire. I know that firsthand too. Yet I have refused to allow what one man meant for evil to rule my life; I prefer to let the glory of our Lord shine thru instead. I am certain you feel the same way.
But understand this we aren’t going away; whether it is the lead article on a blog or not.
David Brown
SNAP Director of Tennessee/Memphis & West Tennessee
901-569-4500
david@davidbrownpi.com
David: My suggestion that we now wait and pray was made out of concern that the blog not become the screaming of some angry mob with no direction. It is obvious that the wrong has been done and admission has been made. What is not known is what has happened since, and until proof of that is found by the authorities, we need to stop posturing and accusing. Sometimes I wonder, David, if you do not categorize sins. Child abuse is horrid and deserves its penalties, but, in the Lord's eyes, it is sin, just as is adultery, theft, taking the Lord's name in vain, etc. As one sinner to another (that's you and me), I suggest there is a time to wait and listen, then move. Otherwise, we fall into a pattern of looking for others to blame without adequate info. And you can see where that leads us: we keep pelting the two churches, who are trying to deal with the issue. While they are doing so, they need to move on with their mission. Let's let them do that. Frankly, I think this blog is about to become a conduit for empty accusations from folks who are members of no church, people who love to criticize the church from the sidelines. There are plenty of posts here to indicate this tendency. I urge the blogger (whoever you are, by the way), to find a way to moderate some of this.
Anon 2: Trust me I have been in much prayer. It is certainly needed. As for rating sins that is not my area of expertise; I don’t even attempt to do that. What I do point out that the “sin” you talk about so much is also a felony crime and in that there is a big difference. And you and others constantly try and equate his sin with lying, adultery, taking the Lord’s name. When you and others equate the crime as just a sin it eases your consciousness. It doesn’t sound as offensive but can you imagine for one moment how his victims felt when he began his sexual assault on them? How their innocence was shed and lost. Do you think they would just call it a “sin”?
As for this blog becoming something negative the only really negative comments are coming from your side. I really don’t see anyone ripping up your community, school system or church. What I have seen is folks wanting to jump on Amy. I have seen us called things equated to being the devil wanting to destroy your church and community. I hate to break that bubble but that dog won’t hunt.
And God bless youself just couldn’t help but toss that flaming arrow when you made this statement “Frankly, I think this blog is about to become a conduit for empty accusations from folks who are members of no church, people who love to criticize the church from the sidelines.” Wow, folks who are members of no church? Are you so certain of that? And the best yet, “people who love to criticize the church from the sidelines”. Once again you are making false assumptions and statements? Isn’t that a sin?
Let me repeat it again, we aren’t going away. If this blog causes you nad others so much stress, the solution is very simple, don’t read it. We don’t need a blog to get our message out when we find a pedophile minister still in the ministry. Our normal route is to have a press conference. We could still do that yet.
David Brown
Last night (8/25) on Jackson news station WJTV at 10:00 they had a brief update on this story. The Asst. DA said that the church elders were throwing up roadblocks to the investigation- stating that John had told them confidential information, and that they wanted to see previous court cases on whether that information could be used in court or if it was privileged info. Looks like they are trying to stall. I tried to find the video of it on WJTV's website, but didn't see it. Thoughts?
http://www2.wjtv.com/business/2011/aug/25/church-leaders-lawyer-up-in-sex-crime-in-93654-vi-100761/
Found it.
Thanks, Midge. That must have gone up late because I didn't see it at midnight.
I've started a new thread as this one has gotten very long. I posted the video there. Please continue the discussion there.
I think if I hear "we aren't to judge" or "he who is without sin" or "Matthew 18" misused one more time I'm going to scream. Yes, sin is sin and separates us from God, but if we aren't to judge, why do we have laws? Why not just do away with all laws (and judges and courtrooms and prisons) and let anarchy reign? The truth is we all judge. Every day. If you don't have enough discernment to judge people's potential motives, I've got some nice swampland I'd like to sell you.
New post.
Please post new comments there.
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