Thursday, August 04, 2011

Enlarging our borders, are we?

Check out the speaker line-up (and disregard the obvious typos).

I have only one question. Why?

What We Believe

Okay, I have one more question. Do we agree on these Four Core Beliefs?

The "Four Core Beliefs" of the Assemblies of God:

1. Salvation
2. Baptism in the Holy Spirit
3. Divine Healing
4. the Second Coming of Christ.

Since most of us are Baptists here I assume we are pretty much in agreement with #1, and I don't think anyone would argue with #4. However, I think I can say with certainty that most of us, as Baptists, do not agree with #2 or for that matter #3 as it's taught and practiced in the AoG church.

Recently we've heard a lot about primary, secondary, and tertiary beliefs among Christians and more specifically Southern Baptists, and all but the most rabid of the Baptist Identity crowd have agreed to disagree on all the tertiary stuff and most of the secondary stuff. We have not agreed to disagree on the primary stuff. Some have tried to make secondary and tertiary issues primary issues, but that's a different subject.

By definition, "core beliefs" are primary beliefs, the very foundation of our faith. This is not to say that we cannot cooperate with AoG churches in some situations, but this is like the Tennessee Baptist Convention inviting the pastor of the largest Assembly of God church in Memphis to speak at their annual meeting. He's probably a really great guy, but he's not Baptist.

Therefore, what possible reason could the Tennessee District of the Assemblies of God have for inviting Steve Gaines to be their keynote speaker, and what reason could Steve Gaines possibly have for accepting their invitation?

I'm all ears eyes.


New BBC Open Forum said...


$20 per person; $40 per couple.

Ummm... that's still $20 per person.

Junkster said...

Some would have us believe that Steve Gaines was formerly a member of an Assembly of God church, despite the lack of evidence for such a claim. But I just think he's been influenced enough by charismatic teachings to fit in with the AoG folks.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I've never heard that. I've heard him talk about growing up in FBC Dyersburg, going to UT-Martin, UU, and SWBTS, and he was on staff at a Baptist church in Lake Dallas, TX, then West Jackson, Gardendale, and here. So I don't know when that would have been.

Steve Gaines Biography

I admit his charismatic leanings and things he's talked about -- dreams, casting out demons, "God showing up," lifting hands (and telling others to lift theirs), etc. -- make it easy to see how he'd fit in there, but I still wonder how he gets around #2 of the AoG "core beliefs." I have heard him say that he believes the HS fills someone when they're saved, not later, and this is in opposition to what the Assemblies of God believe.

Junkster said...

I don't believe there's any evidence that SG was ever anything but a Baptist. Just referring to someone else's claims. I could post a link, but I don't want to give the claim credibility, nor other claims being made at the same site that have no evidence to back them up. There's plenty we know to be true about SG to cause concern; unsubstantied claims about his past church memebrship or recent activities towards BBC members aren't needed to know there's a problem.

Junkster said...

By the way, I think when the AoG says that something like "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" is a core belief, they don't mean that it is a primary Christian doctrine, in the sense that it is essential to the definiton of Christianity.

I could be wrong, but I think they mean it is core to their identity as a specific denomination -- it is why they are AofG and not, say, Baptists or Presbyterians.

In the same way, believers baptism, while not a "primary" doctrine for Baptists (i.e., not one that is essential to salvation), it is still at the core of being Baptist, as opposed to something else.

But, even so, the question remains -- why would SG be invited to speak at such an event, and why would he participate? For the money gained from the speaking gig? Perhaps. Because he is personal friends with one or more people organizing the event? Possibily. Because he wants to use the opportunity to preach what he believes is true Bible doctrine that contradicts the AoG doctriens with which he disagrees? Not very likely.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Update: the AOG function has just announced a price break for groups:

If you sign up a group of 8, you'll pay $160 for the first seven, and the 8th person is free. If not, you'll have to pay $20 per person, or $40 per heterosexual couple.

Who Wants to be a Baptist said...

Steve Gaines and being a Baptist?

1st Southern Baptist's is a dying denomination

2nd God is not a Baptist and Steve was freed of certain things when in school

3rd Besides Lifting hands, Steve is always trying to convince people to dance (you know its all over the Bible)
Is This Aaron?

4th God only reveals certain things only to Pastors

5th Steve frequently patronizes other denominations

Steve is only at Bellevue for the Money that the Dodds and Streets provide along with their friends who they can also convince that Steve is the Anointed One

fogmachine said...

Steve Gaines is such a narcissist that anyone or group who would drool over him would be where he would go.

You are correct NewBBCOpenForum that his demon dreaming stories fit in real good with AOG.

His latest move of getting rid of Greg Hauss is another narcissistic move. Greg had been loyal to Steve Gaines and thought he had it made but he found out earlier this week that aint so.

It wasn't long ago that Gaines celebrated Greg's 15 years of being on staff. Greg talked about how much Gaines meant to him and his family and what a Godly preacher Steve was. I guess when you compromise yourself, you loose the ability to see truth. How sad for these men who sold out to ole Steve Gaines.

As a true narcissist, Hauss was not needed as much as his drain on the expenses. I wonder why Gaines didn't get rid of one of his family members on staff instead?

None of this should surprise anyone. BBC continues to suffer like someone dying a slow death.

New BBC Open Forum said...

It was actually 20 years. This from January 2011:

Bellevue Honors Gregg Hauss

Bellevue thanks Gregg Hauss for 20 years of faithful service on staff. Gregg served in Bellevue’s Student Ministry from 1991-2009, and he currently serves as Discipleship Pastor at Bellevue Arlington. Gregg holds a Master of Theology from Dallas Theological Seminary and a Bachelor of Business Administration in Marketing from the University of Memphis, where he played football for the Tigers. Gregg and his wife, Allyson, have three children: Kimberlee, Stephen, and Callie Beth.

Bellevue Arlington - The Last Outpost

God Save BBC said...

So is Steve Gaines on a spiritual high or one of his Mood Swings from the prednisone he is using to treating his Myasthenia Gravis?

A New View From the Pulpit

Dr. Steven Gaines has a remarkable story. A high-profile Baptist minister and MG patient,
Dr. Gaines immediately shared his diagnosis with his congregation. With strength and determination he continues to deal with the challenges of this disease while leading an active life as senior pastor. By continuing his ministry he shows by example what can be accomplished by focusing on the future and accepting a condition such as MG.

Early on he had to cut back on his heavy work schedule – he had to learn how to delegate some of the day-to-day administrative duties he handled before. And he enjoys and appreciates his life every day. He continues to preach three full services on Sunday mornings, one Sunday evening and another on Wednesday nights. He views his ability to continue as a blessing, that in spite of MG he can carry on with his ministry.

Lessons Learned

Dr. Gaines can identify not only with other MG patients, but those who have any chronic disease. He has seven tips to pass along to patients with similar health

1. Don’t become reclusive. It’s important that you continue to interact with other people. Get out and participate in family or community activities. If you can’t get out, let others come to you and visit.

2. If you get tired, don’t be shy about telling people around you that you have to rest. Managing a chronic disease requires that you maintain a balance – that you rest and take care of yourself. Don’t feel embarrassed or guilty if you have to sit down or lie down. Just do it.

3. Set realistic goals for your life. Take inventory of your life and your activities and priorities. Make changes and choices. Delegate tasks to others or discard tasks you don’t need to do at all. Make the most out of your time and energy.

4. Find competent doctors you trust and then do what they tell you to do in managing your disease.

"Even if some treatments have undesirable side effects, take them anyway."

You need the treatment. And if your doctor suggests you avoid something – avoid it!
Even if it is something that is hard to give up. Take it easy and take care of yourself.

5. Don’t hesitate to seek a second opinion if you think you will benefit. Speak up and get another evaluation.

6. Enjoy every day – every minute of your life. Take nothing for granted.

7. Depend on the Lord for support, guidance and strength. I don’t say this just because I am a minister of the gospel. I say this because it is proven to me again every day of my life how much the Lord means to me.

Final Thoughts

Dr. Gaines began to discover that he could function and be a strong person even with a chronic disease like MG. He did not have to do so much travel and possess the stamina to work 50 to 60 hours each week with preaching, teaching and speaking engagements.
By turning to God he found more inner strength than he’s ever had at any time in his life.

New BBC Open Forum said...

So SG is the poster child for MG. I think we've established that.

If what fog wrote is accurate, I'm more interested in what Gregg Hauss could have possibly done to deserve to be blind-sided like this.

I fully expected when they put Phil Newberry and Gregg out to pasture at Arlington that they'd be gone soon. I really expected them to can Phil before his 25th anniversary in March 2010, but that didn't happen.

When they began meeting out there two years ago wasn't the goal to find a dedicated meeting place, even to buy land and build their own building? Apparently they haven't done anything yet.

They have to be losing money on this venture. Phil is probably making one of the highest salaries of all the staff (except SG, of course) based on his tenure, and Gregg's been there over 20 years. I assume they're having to pay rent to the school, set up and knock down all that equipment every week, and they rent space in a shopping center on Highway 70 which houses several staff members. I don't believe they've ever had more than about 400 in attendance. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) They play Steve's sermon from the week before on DVD, so I'm not sure why they even need a "campus pastor." (No offense to Phil, but preaching isn't part of his job description.) I don't see how they've maintained it this long. Maybe jettisoning one high-paid staffer is part of the solution. Certainly jettisoning a Gaines family member wasn't considered.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Someone asked about "Higgy" the other day.

Bellevue Thanks Carolyn Higginbotham

Carolyn Higginbotham retired in July from her position as Director, Prayer Ministry, after 22 years on Bellevue’s staff. She previously served as Graded Choir Coordinator, Costume Coordinator, and Banner Coordinator. Carolyn and her husband, Chuck, have two children, Suzanne Dickey and Eddie Higginbotham, and two grandchildren, Kyle and Heidi Higginbotham. Carolyn has made a difference in countless lives as a servant, encourager, and prayer warrior. Thank you, Carolyn, for your faithful service to the Lord and our church.

iwannaknow said...

What is a prayer warrior? Do they have a special line to God?

Who Wants to be a Baptist said...

iwannaknow said...

"What is a prayer warrior? Do they have a special line to God?"

"Prayer warriors are people who are known for regularly interceding on behalf of others before God. To intercede means to come between, so prayer warriors are, in effect, coming between God and the trouble in another person's life.

Prayer warriors are like defense attorneys, appealing to the Higher Court on behalf of their defendants. We're all guilty before God, but God is merciful. Prayer warriors recognize that quality of God's personality and call on Him for intervention."

Read more:

New BBC Open Forum said...

Ms. Higgy's Retirement Tribute

New BBC Open Forum said...

Seems there might have been more layoffs at Bellevue Arlington.

Hatchet said...

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Seems there might have been more layoffs at Bellevue Arlington."

That's putting it mildly.