Let's try this again:
Resolution passed at the 2002 Southern Baptist Convention:
On the Sexual Integrity of Ministers
A separate thread for discussion of Calvinism vs. Arminianism is below.
Resolution passed at the 2002 Southern Baptist Convention:
On the Sexual Integrity of Ministers
A separate thread for discussion of Calvinism vs. Arminianism is below.
790 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 790 Newer› Newest»Come, Lord Jesus,
I never said that Christianity is the same as patriotism. Where you gettin' that?
'evil,carnal, temper blasts,' What? Maybe you are a little sensitive. And calling me evil and carnal isn't a blast?
I never said that you weren't a Christian for calling America a 'whore', I'm just saying you're wrong. That's all. Boy, are you a little defensive?
Oh boy. You were invited to this blog, I was not. Are you telling me to go away? Because you are special and more spiritual. Well, maybe you need some repenting too.
Think about it.
OC: You've got mail.
Concerned,
You got mail:) and thankyou!
lwood,
It's a very good letter, and I think everyone knows where to find it. I was going to provide a link, but that letter mentions the victim's name, and I've chosen to defer to the wishes of the victim in keeping his name off this blog and out of the public limelight. Not that everyone doesn't know his name, but that is his wish, and I choose to honor it.
Anyone may copy and repost it in a comment, but please edit out the name of the victim if you do.
NBBCOF
Rev 3
14"And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.
15"'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"
A couple of points:
The church at Laodicea did not repent (I will spit you out of my mouth)
(In Collossians 4 we read that Paul asked the Collassions to read the letter he wrote to the church at Laodicea. Where is the book of Laodicea in the scriptures?)
Lukewarm water in those days was good for nothing. Cold water is good for drinking and warm is good for bathing and cooking...hence...lukewarm...good for nothing.
Laodicea was a commerce center known for fashion (garments) and an eye salve they made and marketed..hence the references to white garments to cover their nakedness (even thought they were fashionable) and salve to annoint your eyes (even though they had salve) so they could see!
It was a rich city and church...hence gold refined by fire instead of their worldly wealth.
I stand at the door and knock...refers to their refusal to repent.
I just read Ray Saba's letter. While I can agree with his concerns I cannot understand why he is choosing not to attend the business meeting on the 26th. For many months members have been asking for more transparency and an open meeting to discuss the issues in front of the full membership. Now with what appears to be the closest opportunity to that happening Ray seems to be saying "don't go". Is this because of a defeatist attitude? I was hoping that those in IDC would be there to be the spokesmen for members with concerns. Now it appears that there may be a movement to not attend. What's up with that?
I asked yesterday if anyone was going to the budget meeting this Sunday at 4:00 and got no response. Now with Ray's letter on savingbellevue.com it appears that the direction to make a stand has evolved into "I don't want to go". How will the full membership be aware if no one speaks out? I thought this would be a positive thing for everyone. Has everyone just given up? If we don't go and make a statement of concern then are we just as guilty as the rest? I am really confused now. Tim or anyone associated with IDC, can you provide some insight?
Ray Saba isn't a member of IDC, and therefore doesn't speak for them. The members of IDC have pledged to be at the March 25th meeting en masse. While I have reservations about just how fruitful the business portion of this meeting will be, and sitting (literally -- on my hands) through the "rah rah" portion may prove to be difficult, we have been asking for a business meeting for months, and now we're having one. After asking for one all this time and now saying, "I refuse to attend," does seem a bit disingenuous to me. If you can't stomach the pep rally, come late for the business meeting. I'd guess it'll be getting underway around 11:00.
Also, tomorrow's 4:00 p.m. meeting regarding the budget is the place to be if you have any questions or concerns about the budget. So unless you attended one of the previous meetings, be there tomorrow or give up your right to complain!
This reminds me of people who complain about politicians but never vote. A lot of elections are farces, too, but it's the process we've got, and until things change, unless you vote, you have no right to gripe.
Does anyone know the process (other than being rich and male) to get oneself nominated for a committee position?
NASS
lindon said:
Lukewarm water in those days was good for nothing. Cold water is good for drinking and warm is good for bathing and cooking...hence...lukewarm...good for nothing.
Laodicea was a commerce center known for fashion (garments) and an eye salve they made and marketed..hence the references to white garments to cover their nakedness (even thought they were fashionable) and salve to annoint your eyes (even though they had salve) so they could see!
It was a rich city and church...hence gold refined by fire instead of their worldly wealth.
I stand at the door and knock...refers to their refusal to repent.
Not trying to cause trouble, I'd just like to add something...
The water in Laodicea was brought through pipes from the hot springs in Heirapolis, six miles away. By the time it reached the city, it had not cooled completely, but was 'lukewarm'.
Metaphorically, Jesus said "You are just like your water, useless".
I wonder what he'd say to the church in my city is like?
Does anyone know the process (other than being rich and male) to get oneself nominated for a committee position?
Don't forget married...
solomon,
Oh, yeah. Or married to someone rich and male. Thanks.
Anyone know?
arminius wrote:
"I wonder what he'd say to the church in my city is like?"
I suppose it depends on the church. By the way, out of curiosity, what city are you in?
Truth-
If March 25 is a true business meeting, it would only be business that could be brought to the floor, not a questions and answer time.
David Coombs wrote re: the meeting
Any other business properly the subject of consideration by the congregation may be brought forward at this meeting
If it was me – I’d asked to be recognized, state you have a motion, ( have it written out as well, you will need to give a copy to the chairman of the meeting) It will his job to re-read it when it comes for a vote.
My name is Amy Doe.
I move that we set up an open forum meeting between interested members of BBC and the BBC Administration along with the Senior Pastor. This forum would be Sunday ______, at 6pm and will be a Q&A session. This forum will allow direct responses from leadership regarding concerns members may have. Only questions taken from the floor that day will be entertained. A professional moderator will be employed to maintain a respectful and orderlyatmosphere. Minutes will be taken and a transcript of the forum provided to all members who request it.
Then sit down.
If who ever is leading the business meeting doesn’t ask does for second for the montion.
I would make sure you have someone second it for you so it can be brought up for a vote.
Wow, Amy...I'm impressed. Good job!
I suppose it depends on the church. By the way, out of curiosity, what city are you in?
Why, Hot Springs, of course!
Actually, I live in rural N Alabama, so I guess my statement was a little unfair to the city folks.
Ho ho,
We are quite feisty today; just chill--it's a beautiful day.
Man, I got stood up by my date, but I'm grabbing my guitar and footbag and heading to the park.
Ja!
Concerned,
I just figured if it's a business meeting then everybody should play that way. I'd be afraid if someone asked about how a situation was handled in the past, they might get shut down with "that's not current business, however we are very commited to an open honest dialog, send your question in an email to...."
Amy,
That kind of behavior is above reproach, and if certain factions tried to stifle it, they'd have egg on their face.
amy,
Keep in mind that BBC's Bylaws doesn't require the use of Robert's Rules of Order. Sadly, leadership can run the meeting any way they desire.
Charlie: Are you serious? I thought everyone had to use Robert's....goodness...so how do you bring up a motion then?
Cakes,
Yes, folks have been fiesty today and thus got sent to "time out".
At my house, it's a minute for each year old you are.
I am sorry you got stood up. Say what you will about us at NBBCOF you know where we are!
Amy and Cakes: We are an opinionated bunch, aren't we?
I guess the member could say, how do you propose I bring up a motion then? Since BBC is a congregationally approved, I assumed I would do so before the congregation.
concernedSBCer said...
Charlie: Are you serious?
REPLY:
AS SERIOUS AS A HEART ATTACK.
I thought everyone had to use Robert's....goodness...
REPLY: NOPE
so how do you bring up a motion then?
REPLY: AH, now you see the problem.
amy said...
Since BBC is a congregationally approved,
REPLY:
Are you sure?????
Well, no matter what you do, they will be prepared for it by reading this blog.
Lindon said...
Well, no matter what you do, they will be prepared for it by reading this blog.
REPLY:
You can take that statement to the bank!!!!!
I would try anyway. And I truly would ask then how do I bring a motion up for consideration, if not in a business meeting with the congregation present?
Their answer would speak volumes.
I am not a BBC member(plus I talk real fast, and start crying for no reason when I am nervous) so I pick Charlie Fox to make the motion. Really, I think you'd be great. I
Concerned said,
Amy and Cakes: We are an opinionated bunch, aren't we?
Good thing I'm not, huh?
Charlie,
amy said...
Since BBC is a congregationally approved,
REPLY:
Are you sure?????
That's what David Coombs said in his letter- right after he told BBC about their new board of directors they didn't get a chance to vote on. I'll go find it...
OC: That statement included you too!
Concerned,
Yeah, thought so. Sorry.
Children, stop that or no koolaid and lemon cookies.
I'll hold out for ho ho's. Where is AOG?
Cakes, I thought you were heading out. I'm sorry you got stood up. :(
amy said....
That's what David Coombs said in his letter- right after he told BBC about their new board of directors they didn't get a chance to vote on.
REPLY:
Your Honor, I rest my case.
How do we know that if we attend, that we wouldn't be hauled off and handcuffed like common criminals?
Apparently, anything goes these days. No accountability anywhere in "leadership" ( I use that term LOOSELY)
I just read Mr. Saba's letter. I agree that we have absolutely nothing to celebrate! The year 2006 has been a devastating year for Bellevue in many ways, we should be having a solemn assembly rather than a celebration. This is a time for mourning over what has happened in our church - we have nothing to celebrate - we need revival and repentance from the pulpit on down.
I'm unlucky in love, if I can say that here.
Concerned said, Cakes, I thought you were heading out. I'm sorry you got stood up:(
Don't worry, I rescheduled with him. :)
Here we go. His quote is a liile more than half way down. BTW, it's the second letter on his site that list the new directors- so I was wrong about that.
David Coombs Letter
MOM4 said...
I just read Mr. Saba's letter. I agree that we have absolutely nothing to celebrate! The year 2006 has been a devastating year for Bellevue in many ways, we should be having a solemn assembly rather than a celebration. This is a time for mourning over what has happened in our church - we have nothing to celebrate - we need revival and repentance from the pulpit on down.
SO VERY TRUE!!!!
Amy, you would be right to stand and make a motion. The business meetings normally follow Roberts Rules of Order. Someone has to second a motion, then discussions, then a vote of the membership takes place.
I agree with NBBCOF as well, it's the system we have and anyone that does not participate can only blame themselves come the 26th. I would not suggest coming at 11:00 however. The seats will be gone and you will be left to the fellowship hall. As for as celebrating....my salvation is reason enough for me to come and celebrate!
Charlie says,
I rest my case.
Charlie,
I am just trying to groom you for proposing this motion – work with me!
You will need to be firm, yet naive. After they shoot you down, about not being the place to make a motion…. you are surprised! (innocently so I might add). Then ask nicely,” What venue would you suggest I bring my motion up before the congregation?"
When D.C says, “I would be happy to talk to you regarding a meeting call my office blah, blah,...
Then nicely say , “Well, we are congregationally approved church. Rev. Coombs, you even stated in the open letter to IDC that the congregation governs all aspects of the church. No disrespect, but you really aren’t the one to address my motion of an open Q& A forum, the congregation is- and here we are! I am not saying you and the staff don’t have a say in this matter.
As members of BBC, the administration can vote on my motion too!
truth rules said...
The business meetings normally follow Roberts Rules of Order.
REPLY:
The definitive word here is NORMALLY!!
I stand behind my statement repeated here.
Keep in mind that BBC's Bylaws doesn't REQUIRE the use of Robert's Rules of Order. Sadly, leadership can run the meeting any way they desire.
amy,
Thanx for the help. Trust me. I've made a few motions in my day.
Truth Rules says: I would not suggest coming at 11:00 however. The seats will be gone and you will be left to the fellowship hall.
This is questionable.Guess the 25th will tell. No one I have questioned about attending is planning on being in attendance. Why attend the show? We plan to Worship elsewhere. Don't want my picture on security cameras captured as a disenter. Really scarry to go to church these days
Truth Rules,
You will be celebrating with pharasees.
Charlie,
But, I think if someone tried to address the issue in a business meeting format, they could maybe make a public statement that BBC member's really don't have rights and the "congregationally approved church" is a farce.
Oh- when you do the quick church votes at the end of the service, do they say
"all in favor say Aye, opposed no?" If they do, BBC does use Robert's Rules.
Charlie says,
Thanx for the help. Trust me. I've made a few motions in my day.
I could tell- that's why I picked you!!!
amy,
Thanx for the vote of confidence.
Charlie,
You may be correct about the Roberts Rules not being used for this ANNUAL business meeting on Sunday Morning the 25th BUT one of the BBC leaders has stated and put in an email that the meeting will be conducted according to these Rules.
One would think that it would be more than obvious to every intelligent,thinking human WHY this business meeting would suddenly be on a Sunday morning and WHY it is so inappropriate to celebrate 2006.
Even so, I encourage everyone to BE PRESENT on the 25th. Even if for the last time.
I agree with Ray's letter and understand so well why he does not want to be present for this bogus celebration. BUT that is why these "not fit to be leaders" have chosen this time for the meeting.
Please be present and prepared.
Charlie said,
Thanx for the help. Trust me. I've made a few motions in my day.
Yeah, what? The Moonwalk?!! :)
Just kiddin' Charlie! I couldn't help myself.
oc said...
Yeah, what? The Moonwalk?!! :)
REPLY:
No Moonwalks for me. I get motion sick. LOL
"One would think that it would be more than obvious to every intelligent,thinking human WHY this business meeting would suddenly be on a Sunday morning" was posted..
Ok, I'll bit why is this an issue. I know that you are going to say that the more people there the less chance for a minority voice. But isn't that what it is all about; as many members as possible at the meeting. This gives more transparency rather than less. Or am I missing something? I mean all I read is how everything is done in secret. Now we have published meeting and people are complaining. I just don't get it.
truth rules,
The difference is the congregaton that attends on Sunday morning is just that, a Sunday morning crowd. They are not the ones that regularly attend on Sunday nights let alone Wednesday nights. Most do not keep up with the business of the church, the needs of the church or the membership, and what is worse, most do not care. The decision to have this "meeting" on a Sunday morning is an effort to obtain more standing ovations and a vote of confidence for the leadership without opposition from those who may have questions or objections. Mark my words, there will be standing "O's" and there will be the same few instigators that start them - just like it was before we started sitting as a group. All the leadership wants is to hush up any questions, garner support by the masses who have no clue what is going on and be able to say that they have "held" a business meeting, even though it is a shell game. Why don't they just have it on Easter Sunday??? There'll be PLENTY in attendance that day and I bet 90% won't have a clue what they are voting for!
"How do we know that if we attend, that we wouldn't be hauled off and handcuffed like common criminals?"
Would make a better media story for you...if you were a member. (Some of these BBC folks are real big on membership in a specific church...can't find that in the NT anywhere) Bring someone to tape you if necessary. Don't forget the police know about a 15 year old girl and know they protected a pedophile minister, too. Oh, and a rape in the restroom? That is a strange place to call a church.
It is on a Sun for a reason. Biggest Attendance and perhaps some media coverage if they can get it. Gotta do some PR for
Gaines. He is looking like an overpaid Gilligan and needs some good old image restoration. Maybe JMO is coordinating the spin?
What other reason is there for it? If the Lord was in the heart of your leaders, it would be an 'on
your face in repentance' gathering.
But, it's not, is it?
"Or am I missing something? I mean all I read is how everything is done in secret. Now we have published meeting and people are complaining. I just don't get it. "
Yep, you are missing the main ingredient: Who controls the meeting. Trust me when I tell you that have made contingencies for ANYTHING that may come up.
1. Regardless of what any of you think about some of the events of 2006- we do have a lot to celebrate..
We live in a country where we are free to worship as we see fit and no matter what you think about BBC, through the people and ministries there many have been brought to Christ and baptized in the past year. Children have made professions on faith in their SS classes, married couples have healed relationships, mission trips have planted seeds. I hear over and over that BBC is not one man and that is true- when you say things like we have nothing to celebrate you are insulting every person that does their part to further the kingdom of God at or through BBC. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
2. Anyone who thinks the "real" plans for the meeting are being discussed on this blog is naive. Rest assured those will be kept as secret as possible so the leadership will not be prepared. Which is of course ironic for a group who wants transparency.
and Mom4, with all due respect, they may be the "sunday morning crowd" but their vote counts just as much as yours.
It sounds very condescending to refer to them in that way. And besides, I don't know how you know "they don't care". If that is the case- that 90% of them "won't know what they are voting for" then maybe that is what you need to be worried about more than SG. Having a church of full of people who are uninterested and don't care. If that is what you think about the church family of BBC, I don't understand why you attend there?
It is the very attitude I hear expressed in that post that makes those "Sunday morning" people decide that if they have to pick a "side" they don't want to go with the one who looks down on them.
Bepatient,
2. Anyone who thinks the "real" plans for the meeting are being discussed on this blog is naive. Rest assured those will be kept as secret as possible so the leadership will not be prepared. Which is of course ironic for a group who wants transparency.
Reply: OK, I'm dumb. What are you talkin' bout?
In the past most of the business was conducted on Sunday evenings or Wednesday evenings. Last year the budget and committee was approved on a Sunday evening. But many that post say they were not aware of any meeting. Now that they are being more open they are criticized. That was my point exactly. If it's a close vote on anything then I would want a ballot only for members.
mom4, isn't what you saying sorta of the same complaint that many of us have. A few people seem to run the church. Now we are complaining because it might include more people. Also you want to qualify the people as to their membership. It's gotta be Sunday and Wednesday attenders only. Or how about we look at BFC attendance; or tithing; or volunteer work; or mission trips. Don't you see the slippery path this brings about. If the leadership was trying to qualify the meeting then we'd all be complaining. Remember earlier the complaints about Bro. Gaines and the tithing issues.
All I'm saying is fair is fair...for all concerned.
Whatchoo talkin'bout Willis?
oc, I would tell you the plans by IDC, but I'd have to kill you. LOL
mom4, one final thought..the old saying is that in government we get the leaders we deserve. Voter turnout in America is a disgrace and we have gotten what we've put into it. The same can be said for Bellevue. But there is a difference. We can't easily leave the USA.
oc,
I am of course not privy to what all is going on, but rest assured that IDC is not going to squander this opportunity nor are they going to broadcast anything on this blog.
truthrules said, oc, I would tell you the plans by IDC, but I'd have to kill you. LOL
Oh well, as if that hasn't been tried before...
Boy Scouts Motto: Be Prepared.
Amy's sample mostion and thoughts on how to present it and address any objections to it are very good. The tone and wording is respectful, and the intent is unambiguous. I suppose that the IDC leadership will be working on something similar. But I would expect (be prepared) that one or more initial motions are already developed (and ready to be recognized at the start of the meeting), and that the intent of such motions would be to make any subsequent motions by dissenters look bad or unnecessary.
For example, if the first motion is to call for an immediate vote of confidence for the pastor and leadership, and that motion is passed, then any later attempt to call for an open forum meeting to discuss issues would likely be defeated. Since the leaders of the meeting will control who gets recognized and in what order, one way to be prepared is to be ready to present the motion for an open forum meeting as an amendment to any prior motion. So if someone calls for a vote of confidence, be ready to move (and second) an ammendment for the vote of confidence to occur "after an open forum meeting, to be held ..." etc.
Another thing to be ready for is that as soon as any discussion of a motion gets heated or into areas that those controlling the meeting do not want, someone will "call for the question", meaning they are asking for a vote to end debate and move on to voting on the original motion. Know that under Robert's Rules, or most other such systems, a 2/3 majority is required for the debate to end. And once a vote passes to end debate, that is not the same as passing the original motion or any ammendments. A separate vote is still needed on the motion and any approved ammendments. Fun stuff, huh?
All I'm saying is, if they follow Robert's Rules, or in any way allow for motions from the floor, know how things are likley to work -- and be prepared.
I haven't read Saba's letter but normally I agree with him. Having said that if you are still a member of BBC, PLEASE attend the meeting Sun AM if you are able. I'm with NASS on this one. We have been complaining about not having a meeting forever. It may be a farce and you might as well expect it to be but GO and if you get to have a voice USE the opportunity. Otherwise as in all voting, you have lost the opportunity to complain. JMO as usual.
DH
Oh boy! A conspiracy! I just love a conspiracy! Who shot JFK, was there really a holocaust, has the leadership of BBC failed the church,......... no, bepatient, I am not 'resting assured' about anything you're telling me. As a matter of fact, if you're 'resting assured' then you got problems too. You happy about the leadership?
I have to say that regardless of the problems and bad that has occured, there is always something to celebrate when it comes to Christ and His church. He is always at work among the faithful. I can see why folks would be disillusioned or upset, and how difficult that would make it to experience and express joy. Some might feel like the Israelites when their Babylonion captors and tormentors demanded that they sing one of the songs of Zion. Quite understandable that they'd rather lay down and weep. But we all know enough of Scripture to know that God calls us to rejoice in Him and His goodness, and all that He is doing in the midst of His faithful ones -- most especially in the midst of pain and trial. Forget the motives and expectations of the "captors and tormentors", and sing anyway.
Junk,
Here is a link that goes over Robert's Rules. It really insn't that confusing when everyone knows what their doing. I think it's a great way to run a meeting, very orderly and the minority is heard and the majority rules.
Robert’s Rules
Amy,
Thanks! That's what I mean--"be prepared". :)
I hope everyone takes the time to look at these.
Were you the world's only Boy Scout named Amy? :)
Someone told me you all were discussing worship earlier on here and I wanted to put my 2 cents worth in. I am very interested in correct biblical worship - not interested too much in how others think we should be worshipping. I am reading a wonderful book by Ron Owens called Return to Worship - A God-Centered Approach that you can buy at the Seminary. For those of you who read Lighthouse regularly you will notice on pg 10 he references Franciscan monk Bro. Lawrence. (Ima - he only made it to page 10!!) I am trying to forgive Mr.(Dr?) Owens for this because other than this the book is absolutely wonderful and as far as I can tell it is biblical. Also for those of you who do not care for Henry Blackaby, he has a forward for the book as does Stephen Olford. Later in the book Owens also references Experiencing God. If you can't overlook these two things, don't bother to read it. Otherwise I am halfway through it and mostly agree with Owens. He does seem to be against drama of all sorts but I have only skimmed that part - haven't officially gotten there yet. I think drama is wonderful as long as it is focused squarely on Jesus. JMO again!
DH
I used to know an Amy. Quiet, sweet, funny, smart. But her last name wasn't Doe. :) I knew her dad, too--he taught me a lot.
But we all know enough of Scripture to know that God calls us to rejoice in Him and His goodness, and all that He is doing in the midst of His faithful ones -- most especially in the midst of pain and trial. Forget the motives and expectations of the "captors and tormentors", and sing anyway.
junk99mail,
What a beautiful reminder in the middle of this dispute. Are you by any chance a BM reader? (No names if you are, or you'll be branded PD.) Paul and Silas certainly didn't stop worshipping although beaten and chained.
I love the lesson in Matthew 13 when the Lord Jesus walked on the water. He sent the 12 on ahead and went up on a mountain. The storm came as evening fell, and the apostles fought the waves for what must have seemed like forever. They had a rough go of it between verses 24 and 25. I can imagine that every now and then they'd glance up at the mountain, wondering why Jesus was so far away and wouldn't help them.
When Jesus went to them on the lake, they didn't even recognize him. He was right with them in the storm, but they didn't believe it.
Yes, regardless of what that letter says, there is much to celebrate. God doesn't wait for storms to pass to bless His children.
IMO
junk said, I used to know an Amy. Quiet, sweet, funny, smart. But her last name wasn't Doe. :) I knew her dad, too--he taught me a lot.
Yeah, he taught you alot. Like get away from his daughter!
arminus,
I don't care much about what I get labelled, but I try to look for the good and true in anything. (Not to say that makes the bad and false ok, just that I affirm whatever the Scripture teaches, regardless of who is saying it.) But I don't know what BM stands for. What is it?
oc, I am going to assume you were being funny. Truth is, he never gave any such indication (and had no reason to), but, knowing myself, I wouldn't blame any father if he did prefer that I stay away from his daughter. Knowing myself, I wouldn't blame anyone who wanted to keep me at arm's length from anyone! One of the reasons I don't caree too much how badly people think of me is that I know that whatever they might think is no where near as bad as the truth about me that God only knows.
Arminius,
Just read your 6:46 p.m. post.
It is absolutely beautiful.
THANKS!!!
Stephen and Bonita Ann
junk99,
Beth Moore. The girls at my church studied her 'Daniel' series. There's a policy against women teaching, so I got the privilege of hosting it (and it actually was a privilege).
She parked on Psalm 137 one week, and that's what made me think you might have taken part in her study.
I agree with your attitude about looking for the good in everything. Romans 8:28, right?
Dear Brothers and Sisters: I know I am going to upset some people but I cannot be silent. I too have read Ray's letter. I am not happy with it. I have repeatedly asked that people quit mentioning this victim's name and his family.
Why can't we restrain ourselves and honor this victim's wishes? Is that really too much to ask? He has NOT ask for very much at all. Yet for some stupid reason, people cannot refrain theirselves from doing it. That is very selfish and hurtful.
I said very early on that Dr. Gaines was wrong to have mentioned the minister by name on that infamous Sunday and now it is just as wrong for Ray to do it. It takes away from your message and purpose. If either one of these two men had taken to the time to speak with this victim they would have understood his wishes.
For those that are victims, we are going to be starting the support groups in the next few weeks. Several of you have expressed an interest in attending. There will be separate groups, one for women and the other for men. My email addresss and phone number are on my profile. Please contact me if you are interested in attending.
In closing I ask yet once again to please honor the wishes of this dear young man. Quit using his name, his father's name and that of his family. Thank you all.
God Bless
David Brown
come, lord jesus,
Well, praise God!
I just realized that it was on a thread with the S.S. Minnow at the top.
Junk,
Yeah, I was trying to be funny! I apologize if you took it personally. You know what a sarcastic punk I am!!
oc, not a problem; I took no offense. Sarcasm is my friend, too!
Junk,
Thanks, friend! I think I've been in too many 'altercations' today, really didn't need another, and really didn't mean anything.Sometimes I'm obnoxious. Thanks for understanding.
truth,
The last budget approval meeting I attended, I had no prior notice other than the morning service. I know that there are mailouts, but I did not get mine until the week following the meeting, which is not uncommon for Bellevue mail (especially the youth department).
My point is not the number in attendance and I am not attempting to qualify anyone's membership, but I have seen pastors voted down by youthful members just because they did not have cute daughters - true story. The people that vote, need to be educated PRIOR to the vote! They need to be aware of what is going on regardless of the type of voting they are doing, whether it is a church budget and committee appointment vote or the President of the USA - don't you agree?
oc,
Is it Ritalin time? LOL
Charlie.
Probably need more than Ritalin. But thanks for lookin' out for me. Maybe a hammer to the head...
MOM4 said...
truth,
The last budget approval meeting I attended, I had no prior notice other than the morning service. I know that there are mailouts, but I did not get mine until the week following the meeting, which is not uncommon for Bellevue mail (especially the youth department).
My point is not the number in attendance and I am not attempting to qualify anyone's membership, but I have seen pastors voted down by youthful members just because they did not have cute daughters - true story. The people that vote, need to be educated PRIOR to the vote! They need to be aware of what is going on regardless of the type of voting they are doing, whether it is a church budget and committee appointment vote or the President of the USA - don't you agree?
7:46 PM, March 17, 2007
Mom4, I totally agree with you. However, the problem with Bellevue is that Steve Gaines and his group of cronies don't want the congregation to be informed. They know that if the congregation knows what they're up to, their power is lost. Instead of being honest and open with the congregation, they are secretive and will force anyone who does not drink their kool-aid out of the church (Mullins to name an example). ANd they will villify those who are willing to stand up to the moonbats in leadership.
Oh, there's that word again........
MOONBATS!!!
I''m gonna have nightmares!
LOL OC,
Moonbat's a harmless word. I picked that word up off of a conservative talk show I listen to in the mornings at work. They use it to refer to liberals. I use it to refer to those who have no honor and don't use common sense, which those in charge at Bellevue do not have or use.
Koragg,
OK, but I'm still scared. Maybe more scared than when I was ignorant of what it was! Thanks alot for a sleepless night, 'friend', :)
OC: You'll only have nightmares if you looked at the picture NASS posted. *shiver*
Concerned,
I know, I think of that whenever I hear the word......................
MOONBAT!!!!!!
Moonbat
bowtheknee...
"Ima - he only made it to page 10!!"
Wow...I must have made an impression! *laughing*
"I am very interested in correct biblical worship - not interested too much in how others think we should be worshipping."
I, too, share this with you in that I am very interested in correct biblical worship. Thing is...we all think we are right and that isn't possible because we don't all share the same opinion. So we butt heads. I feel we shall always butt heads on this issue. And many other issues.
This book, Return to Worship by Ron Owens is also in Lifeway, along with a lot of other books containing heresy. Of course, I am not saying that all the books in Lifeway are heretical, just most of them. There are a few by the likes of John MacArthur that would pass the test. You can easily purchase five of Brother Lawrence’s books there as well. I wonder how many people, Southern Baptists, realize that Lifeway is full of books by Roman Catholic mystics? Contemplative prayer is running rampant in the Southern Baptist Convention. There are seventeen books available in Lifeway by Madame Jeanne Guyon, the seventeenth century Roman Catholic mystic, who with Francois Fenelon founded the Quietism Movement, the practice which involved becoming so passive that you become indifferent to everything. This was an extreme form of Roman Catholic mysticism that emphasized the cleansing of one's inner life and included the belief that one could see Christ visibly, in an altered state of unconsciousness. Father Francois Fenelon, a Roman Catholic priest with the Jesuit order, was discharged from the church by the Pope because of his role in this movement and imprisoned. This is dangerous stuff. I am not a Roman Catholic…if I want to become one, I will find a Roman Catholic church and join up. In the meantime, when I go into a Lifeway Bookstore (which I don’t anymore)…but if I do, I expect to find books there that relate to the teachings of the Southern Baptist doctrine…or what it is supposed to be, or used to be, or however it is best stated. I realize the culture changes…but we are going backwards. We are going back to the days before the reformation…back to medieval practices…back to mysticism. Contemplative prayer, contemplative spirituality. Don’t take my word for it…go to lifewaystores.com and type any of these terms in, type in the authors, the mystics…see for yourself. Type in labyrinths…take your pick. It is all in there. We, as Southern Baptist, need to do something about it. There, I could on but I’ll stop here…I’m done now.
Ima
Thanks, NASS, now we'll all have nightmares!
they are secretive and will force anyone who does not drink their kool-aid out of the church
May I assume this is a reference to Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre?
Charming.
Ima, You know, the thing is, what do we do regarding Lifeway? They are a business with freedom to carry whatever merchandise they deem acceptable. I agree many of the items there are heretical and it is upsetting that the Baptist Book Store has chosen to carry this merchandise, yet, other than not buying there, I don't know of a recourse we have.
Ima, which is why I don't bother with Lifeway anymore. At least at B&N they do not claim to be something they are not.
But Christians are the big fat market niche now for books, music, movies, t-shirts, ties, trinkets and a plastic fish to put on the car.
arminius said...
"they are secretive and will force anyone who does not drink their kool-aid out of the church"
I missed this post...would you direct me to it?
concernedsbcer...
Yes, but this is an arm of the Southern Baptist Convention. They own Lifeway! There has to be something we can do.
For one thing, we can quit buying their materials! We can attend the convention and put a motion of the floor to quit condoning this heresy...can't we? We can direct our monies to not go there...can't we? Our Bible tells us not to mix light with darkness...but yet that is exactly what we are doing. And we are accepting it! Right?
Lindon...
Please tell me you don't have a plastic fish on your car!!! (I think Charlie does!) :)
"The people that vote, need to be educated PRIOR to the vote! They need to be aware of what is going on regardless of the type of voting they are doing, whether it is a church budget and committee appointment vote or the President of the USA - don't you agree?" posted by mom4
Actually that is the part of freedom that makes us free. Remember that Christ didn't just die for those of us who would be informed but for all sinners. I understand that we would all be better decision makers with information but freedom allows us to not be informed. God gave us free will knowing that most of us would make the wrong decisions. But again, free will, wouldn't be free with that. I know that this sounds rambling but most of my philosophy classes were rambling as well. The bottom line is who (maybe you) would be the judge of who gets the right to vote. And then we would not have either freedom nor free will.
Ima, the kool-aide quote was from koragg's post today at 8:47 PM
Oh nooooooo! The words "free will" have come up again!!! Back to the previous thread! :)
Yeah,
I was trying to point out that Gaines and his cronies have a history of trying to get rid of those who do not agree with Gaines.
Koragg..."However, the problem with Bellevue is that Steve Gaines and his group of cronies don't want the congregation to be informed. They know that if the congregation knows what they're up to, their power is lost. Instead of being honest and open with the congregation, they are secretive and will force anyone who does not drink their kool-aid out of the church (Mullins to name an example). ANd they will villify those who are willing to stand up to the moonbats in leadership."
(Thanks junkmail)
Koragg...you are exactly right.
There really ought to be a professional group hired to count the vote, any votes, accurately. There should be no opposition to this from either side. If there is, one might suspect some intended foulplay. Remember, in some of these churches slippling the transitional movement through, there has been predetermined votes. If I am not mistaken, and I may be, GBC hired a professional team to tabulate the votes. Right guys? There should be no opposition to this. Your problem would probably be getting this brought to the attention of leadership to begin with.
8:47 PM, March 17, 2007 from 'koragg'
I'm sure this post will endear mr. koragg to thousands of Bellevue members, and convince many of them the error of their ways.
I'm sort of an oddball, but if I were a member I'd be insulted and angry.
arminius,
Are you from the muscle shoals area?
Arminius,
Clearly, you are a newby. What koragg posted at 8:47 Pm is EXACTLY what is happening at bbc.
Sorry, but those that would be insulted have their head in the sand and dont' want to know the truth. Those that DO know what is going on understand perfectly about the kool aid.
Matter of fact, when we talk amongst ourselves, the question is asked, " Do they drink kool aid?"
If the answer is yes, that means that the person follows SG unconditionally, as though he was a cult leader. They support him REGARDLESS of what he does, and how many laws he breaks, regardless of how much scripture he ignores.
The label is valid. There is no other way to explain how otherwise intelligent people would line up behind him, and follow him, knowing all the scripture he has ignored and all the scripture he has twisted for his own self serving agenda.
All this kool-aide talk made me thirsty, so I just went and made some. But I think it is safe, since I made it myself, and it is sugar free.
Thanks, NASS.
OH NO!!! Now junkmail has drank the kool-aide!
Sick of the lies,
That was a very good post. You just summed this up beautifully.
Ima,
Thanks.
I would add that although Arminius says that if he were a bbc member, he would be angry and insulted.
I am SOOOO over worrying about whether someone who does not care abuot sin in the pulpit is angry and insulted over TRUTH.
I say to them," Deal with It"
The koole-aide was delicious. Grape. Don't know what you guys are so worried abou....... ummm... suddenly feeling strange ... don't know what's coming over me, but now I feel compelled to say "Wow! What a hate-filled blog! Resistance is fu-tile! You will be assimilated!"
JUNK,
LOLOLOL!!!!
Junk,
You forgot to say
" pathetic"
Junk: That's just sad.
Guys, isn't this "drinking the kool-aid" stuff just wrong to say. I mean in all fairness to others it assumes that we are the smarter/wiser than all group. I was always taught to respect others opinion (even if they're wrong). When you toss the kool-aid nickname on our fellow believers and Bellevue members aren't we being somewhat condescending to them. I am not speaking of the leadership but just the ordinary members like you and I. I just think that we should treat others as we want to be treated. Seems like I read this somewhere.
LOL...are we all on the same brain wave or what????
It is like my mom used to tell me SOTL...you can't make someone care.
By the way, I think junkmail has just poisoned himself. We tried to tell him about following the leader didn't we! Live and learn I say. :)
junk...you okay, man?
SOTL said:
"If the answer is yes, that means that the person follows SG unconditionally, as though he was a cult leader. They support him REGARDLESS of what he does, and how many laws he breaks, regardless of how much scripture he ignores."
Well, some people around here owe me an apology, because I have been called a Kool Aid drinker, and I do not follow any man unconditionally.
and yes truthrules,
many people find "kool aid drinkers" offensive and condescending.
Truth,
Let me give you an example:
RE: the litte 15 y/o girl that was handcuffed and cussed out the other night by security.
When I relayed what happened to an acquaintance of mine, she promptly told me that it DID NOT happen, because she did not see it, and she was in the worship center, and it was very quiet. She said that the story was made up just to try to erode confidence in the leadership.
Now, am I smarter than her because I KNOW the truth? No, i'm not. But she has her head in the sand.
SHE DOES NOT WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH.
She does not want to acknowledge anything that might disparage the pastor.
I was told that " I" was causing strife.
So, if they find it condescending that we call them kool aid drinkers, maybe they should come up for air and stop winking at sin in the pulpit.
The title is reserved for people who do not care if the stories are true. Why dont' they care?
Becuase they are thinking like a cult.!!!!!! They have decided to follow SG REGARDLESS of what he does or what he says, or how many laws he breaks.
truthrules...
You know, of course you are right. But doesn't the Bible also say that laughter doesth the heart good like a medicine? I tell you what...this group didn't make the kool-aide. I don't know about you, but personally I'd never make any for my brothers/sisters to drink. That is what makes them them... and me me. Turn the golden rule around...never in a million years would I take any part of forcing my fellow Christians out of their church. Now, if I had not laughed a little...I'd not have made it as well. Neither would these folks. I appreciate your remark, but I am not sure you are feeling the pain.
truth rules,
You are right (which is the point I think arminius was making). People here are frustrated and hurt, and as a former pastor frined of mine used to say "Hurt people hurt people." Not making excuses, as it is indeed right to treat others as we desire to be treated -- especially those who would do us harm or those show no concern for our well being. That's a matter of grace and how we respond to God's encouragement to show love to our "enemies", just as He did to us by giving His son as an atoning sacrifice when we were still His enemies. I'm just saying it is understandable that people would use stong rhetoric when they feel strongly about things.
These same people also did not believe the fence story, until, of course, the lawbreakers were forced to admit it was true.
They did not believe the PW story, until, it came from SG's mouth.
They did not believe the $25,000 check story, until it was admitted to.
I could go on and on. They deny deny deny.
THEY DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH.
They have decided that they will support this man, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE DOES!!!!!
Does anyone care that " I " find it offensive that THEY wink at sin in the pulpit?
concerned,
I'm fine now, thanks. I've been severed from the collective hive mind and am thinking clearly as an indiviual again. Well, as clearly as I ever was, which isn't saying much.
SOTl,
I care.
SOTL: I care too. In fact, we all should care. Because when they wink at sin in the pulpit, they are winking at the One who's pulpit it is.
SOTL,
I care very much.
We have all read the back of the book and we all understand that these are the end times. Sometimes, when the day has ended and things get quiet...I become somber and I reach the point that I pity those who will not take their heads out of the sane. You understand what I mean. That is when I realize just truly how very much I love these people and I pray for them. This doesn't mean however that I/we don't feel the pain they seem to enjoy inflicting on those around them. These are truly trying times. Lying, kicking people out of their own church, deceit, deceit and more deceit, are not easy to deal with...especially coming from the Body of Christ.
SOTL,
EVEN when the PW story was verified by SG and the ones not fit to be leaders....it was minimized as if it were on the same level as the itty bitty fence.
It is now said "this matter is settled".
What were the CONSEQUENCES, what was the DICIPLINE for the Sr. Pastor and others who covered then minimized this SIN???
People,this is not settled. There will be fall out from this for years to come.
GMOMMYLV...
You are SO right!
lindon wrote:
"But Christians are the big fat market niche now for books, music, movies, t-shirts, ties, trinkets and a plastic fish to put on the car."
I didn't realize the many new varieties of those plastic fish they're making now. For example:
Scuba Fish
Dearly Departed Fish
Truthseeker Fish
Trollcakes Fish
Westtnbarrister Fish
Yoga for Christians
Budget question ......
What were the specific costs incurred in 2006 for the legal fees,outside HR people, the bogus investigation, the therapy for those injured by PW, for keeping a confessed child molestor on staff,....including the RAISE PW recieved AFTER he confessed to the Sr Pastor???
What will be the costs from the future fall out....when others find the courage to come forward. ?When lawsuits are filed ?
What will the future costs be for the media damage control and repair to offset the national shame BBC has suffered from this lack of Biblical leadership.? How will the members tithes be used to repair this sin and the cover up of this crime.??
Maybe SG and the leaders behind him should cover this financial burden to the BBC budget.
NBBCOF...
Oh come on now NASS...where is the Charlie Fox Fish???
Goodnight NASS...
Sweet dreams.............
ima wrote:
"Oh come on now NASS...where is the Charlie Fox Fish???"
Sorry, I inadvertently left his off the list.
Charlie Fox Fish
And last but not least, the
Junk99Mail Fish
NBBCOF...
Got to hand it to you NASS; you did a great job with the fish!
"I was always taught to respect others opinion (even if they're wrong)."
Hmmm. Let's take this statement to its logical conclusion. Respect for the opinion that female genital mutilation is ok?
Respect for the opinion that women are property and should be treated as such?
Respect for the opinion that ministers who rape their own son can remain a minister?
Respect for pastors who twist scripture out of context for their own personal gain?
There are many more but you get my drift. There are MANY opinions that I do not respect and would never pretend that I do for politically correct reasons nor for faux Christian reasons, either.
"{ When you toss the kool-aid nickname on our fellow believers and Bellevue members aren't we being somewhat condescending to them."
Yes. But perhaps you have missed the tears dripping off many a keyboard over the past 4 months. How people could sit under the teaching of Gaines knowing he ignored scripture in the PW case(not to mention his twisted scripture sermons) is beyond me.
" I am not speaking of the leadership but just the ordinary members like you and I. I just think that we should treat others as we want to be treated. Seems like I read this somewhere. "
How about the truth? You remember, the WHOLE truth. Therein lies the problem with your position. I would want someone to give me the truth of scripture. So, I AM treating them the way I would want to be treated. Problem here is that many do NOT want to hear or believe that scripture says what it really says.
So, don't drink the kool aid. Read scripture in context. Follow Christ...not men.
"Well, some people around here owe me an apology, because I have been called a Kool Aid drinker, and I do not follow any man unconditionally."
??? You are doing it now and have been for months. Not only are you drinking the kool aid, you keep bringing a pitcher of it to this blog trying to get others to drink.
So, based on your above statement...what ARE the conditions that keep you supporting Gaines who has proven himself a false shepherd? Because the 'majority' does? You must be getting something out of this to be able to ignore scripture so blantantly.
lindon perhaps you should read the whole post I am responding to.
I stand by the fact that I have never and will never follow any man unconditionally.
Budget question ......
What were the specific costs incurred in 2006 for the legal fees,outside HR people, the bogus investigation, the therapy for those injured by PW, for keeping a confessed child molestor on staff,....including the RAISE PW recieved AFTER he confessed to the Sr Pastor???
What will be the costs from the future fall out....when others find the courage to come forward. ?When lawsuits are filed ?
What will the future costs be for the media damage control and repair to offset the national shame BBC has suffered from this lack of Biblical leadership.?
How will the members tithes be used to repair this sin and the cover up of this crime.??
Maybe SG and the leaders behind him should cover this financial burden to the BBC budget.
bepatient said:
"I stand by the fact that I have never and will never follow any man unconditionally"
SOTL says;
BePatient, if allowing a pedophile to stay on staff, if "feeling compassion" for a man who sodomized his little boy doesn't cause you to withhold your support for the pastor, my dear, NOTHING will!!!
Can you tell me ANYTHING that this man could do, worse than what he has already done, that would make you withdraw your support.
Sorry, Bepatient, but if you will accept " compassion for the sodomizer" you will accept ANYTHING.
You just dont' see it, but, my friend, you are already there. You are already accepting this man of anything.
Denial is a bad thing.
Drink up!
http://www.kraftfoods.com/koolaid/
Our SS lesson today was about the shepherd in John 10. It echoed much of what was discussed last week on this forum. The information given last week from the person that helped on his grandfather's sheep ranch really spoke to me. I made the point that we have to follow the RIGHT shepherd. The shepherd is JESUS. The gate keeper is God. Pastors are there to protect and serve the church but the flock hears the SHEPHERD'S voice and follows Him.
I'm so tired of "the resistance" getting treated like lepers; they are following the shepherd's voice and it is in opposition to the pastor's voice right now. (imho)
Don't know about the rest of you, but i cannot sit in the worship center with people who ADMIRE and FOLLOW a man that " felt compassion" for a man who would sodomize his son, hide his sin for years and years while PRETENDING to be a " minister of prayer"
Don't forget, too, that this
"pastor" ( SG) sent PW back to his job of interviewing those who had been sexually abused.
It sickens me to see people supporting a man that would do that. In my wildest imagination, I cannot fathom why this does not bother them, and HOW in the world they can sit there under him, and listen to him, as though he is sincere.
What else could this man do, that would turn their stomachs, if he hasn't already done it?
"I stand by the fact that I have never and will never follow any man unconditionally. "
And I stand by the fact that you are doing it now.
So I'm on pins and needles wondering what happened this morn.
Anybody got anything to report?
"Cakes,
Well I had a bad allergy attack and couldn't go to church.
Thanks for asking. I feel better.
sweetcakes
I think that " the meeting" is this evening.
Anyone?
ima, I don't have a fish on my car. Nor a 'Hillary-NO!' bumper sticker although those are my sentiments. I have never been a bumper sticker type.
But, whoever the plastic fish manufacturering people are, they made a fortune at my former mega. You will see many cars with mama fish, papa fish and little fishies to denote the entire family! :o>
lindon...that's just....sad.
Ima,
You have mail!
I have a bumper sticker on my front bumper.
It says:
"run, Hillary, run"
Repubs put it on the front bumper, the dems put it on the rear bumper.
:)
( not really)
hehe
SOTL: Okay, that was a spew moment...the mental picture.....
Jamie said today that Steve and he had a conversation once and Steve said that their job is to lead the sheep and not beat the sheep. I wonder what he think they are doing?
truthseeker said...
Jamie said today that Steve and he had a conversation once and Steve said that their job is to lead the sheep and not beat the sheep. I wonder what he think they are doing?
Koragg's Response:
If thats what they call leading...I hate to see what beating the sheep means to them!
Do you find it coincidental that we have been discussing in detail the duties of a shepherd and then Jamie said that today? Just wondering....
Question:
How can anyone approve the new budget when it pays Gaines $400,000.00+ every year?
Piglet: for not even preaching all the services....I can't even fathom it.
Well, when they ask for those opposed, listen for the "oink". It may not make a difference to them if I oppose, but it makes a difference to me. :0)
We went to BFC at BBC today and hustled over to the service at GBC to hear Kirk Kilpatrick. We missed the first five minutes of his sermon but were still blessed!! Worth the trip.
We plan to go back tonite for part 2!!
NASS,
When did you see my car in the church parking lot to take a picture of my plastic fish??????
On a lighter note....
GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!
Piglet,
There will be others "oinking" with you!!!
What's all this about 'plastic fish'? Are you people 'plastic fishers of men'?
Just kidding! Don't blast me!
Goin to watch the Annie Moses band tonight at Faith Baptist.
offline
OR..are you fishers of Plasic men?
Still kidding!
oops. I meant 'plastic'. :)
koragg: Go Tigers!
Piglet: kinda hard to keep a business meeting serious with all that oinking going on!
yeah. But then again...an oink or two is better than a bunch of lies by the Moonbat Mafia :)
"are you fishers of Plasic men?"
Seeker sensitive
http://thinkpoint.wordpress.com/
Interesting article about self deception and sin.
"How can anyone approve the new budget when it pays Gaines $400,000.00+ every year?" says piglet
How do you figure just $400,000? Did you go to the budget meeting today? I thought that they didn't publish the pastor's salary.
Another song for y'all
Plastic fishes
Little plastic fishes
On the back of your car
Plastic little fishes
Do you know just Whose you are?
There’s a bumper sticker
On the back of your car
Asks the world “Got Jesus?”
Does that tell them Whose you are?
You say you want the world to know
The difference that you’ve found
But Christian are you really different
Than the world that’s all around?
Do your plastic fishes
Tell the world what you’ve got?
Are you advertising
Something that you’re really not?
You say you want the world to know
The difference that you’ve found
But Christian are you just the same
As the world that’s all around?
Little plastic Christians
Is this what we’ve become?
Is this the way we show
Honor to the Holy One?
Well, yeah, went to the "budget review" meeting. What a show! Probably a preview of next Sunday's meeting. We got and hour and a half of do-good stories from 11 staffers, then ran out of time after 45 minutes of questions. Did'nt begin with questions until 5:30 pm.
Better bring a sack lunch next Sunday. If the music and preaching goes an hour, this ministry celebration another hour+ (somebody has said 5 minutes each), don't expect any business to be discussed or transacted in the "annual congregational meeting" until after noon straight up.
I took quite a few notes this afternoon, and will key up some interesting data a little later tonight - data, if you can believe it all. Sure didn't agree with or like all the answers, but they did answer most of them one way or the other.
Everyone was respectful, some pressing for clarification. But it's what they didn't provide, and the implications of it that sort of steam one's glasses, if you know what I mean. More later.
junk...good song...good question.
I went to BBC late this afternoon to watch the parade of hirelings perform for us idiots, otherwise known as a budget question/answer meeting. My mama and papa wouldn’t approve of the word idiot, and I wouldn’t allow my own children to use it, however it seems to fit perfectly in this situation.
I’ve never in my life seen such manipulative manure spread out before us idiots. They (the hirelings) must think we are idiots anyway. Otherwise surely they would have used the approach of professionalism, which demands transparency and accountability.
After one hour and 15 minutes of reports on each ministry, with 30 minutes left for questions and answers, my goodness DC ran out of time & couldn’t finish. I wonder how that happened??? If I didn’t know better, I would think DC was really a woman in disguise, due to the fact that he couldn’t seem to budget his time wisely. Wouldn’t you think it would be realized that 30 minutes is not enough time for Q & A when people have been begging for answers, due to a lack of trust in leadership and a total collapse in integrity in the pulpit???
My husband encourages me to note that it takes longer to get ready to leave the house for a function than I realize, sometimes causing us to be later arriving than we wish too. Mr. (?) DC doesn’t seem to realize that it takes longer than 30 minutes to answer all the questions that people have concerning the Lord’s money.
I would think that if people stop giving and salaries and programs are cut, then he will realize more transparency is not only desired, but absolutely necessary. The scripture concerning the need to “Abstain from all appearance of evil” comes to mind a lot lately concerning the bumbling quartet that skipped over the itty bitty fence like a group of schoolboys. I doubt it was quite that easy at the time – bet ya they were out of breath to say the least here.
In conclusion, I am appalled at the farce that took place in Fellowship Hall this afternoon labeled as a budget question/answer meeting. It was a total complete waste of my time, but I guess it did serve as a dress rehearsal for next Sunday morning. Sickening. Wonder what God is thinking?
That’ll be 5 cents, please!
Lucy (from Charlie Brown’s Peanuts)
Lucy,
Will you hold the football, so I can kick it?
Charlie
Nass,
You have Charlie mail.
loooooo-ceeeee! you've got some splainin' to do!
ooops, wrong lucy.
"After one hour and 15 minutes of reports on each ministry, with 30 minutes left for questions and answers, my goodness DC ran out of time & couldn’t finish."
He who controls the agenda controls the outcome.
But it makes for a good come back: Well, you got your information. See how that works?
Nass,
YGM!!!
Awe, I'm shocked, shocked...
Mr. Fox,
Sure, I'll hold the football. Have you got a good back? The fall will cause you some serious pain.
But then, we've all had quite a bit of that for many months, haven't we???
5 cents please.
Lucy
Makes you wonder if Coombs and Co. sought advice from the MLGW folks on how to avoid the public's demands of transparency.
So what did the law-yers, consultants, and severances from the sex scandal cost the budget? Is a pretty good deal, relatively (tehe) speaking, also something to celebrate?
Could y'all give me some idea of who amongst the truthseekers attended?
Why do I not think that next Sunday is gonna be any better?
A rhetorical question.
LUCY!!!!!!!!
You wouldn't yank the ball away at the last second would you?????? Say it ain't so!!!!!!!
Charlie
Whom, I mean. Krikes!
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