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About Me
- New BBC Open Forum
- This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church and the SBC can come to comment and exchange ideas. Anonymous comments are welcome, but it is respectfully requested that instead of choosing the "Anonymous" option those who want to post comments without logging in select a unique screen name. This lets everyone tell the difference between one anon and another without revealing any personal information. Under the box where you compose your comment where it says "Choose an identity," just check "Name/URL" and type in the screen name of your choice. You can leave the URL field blank. It would be helpful if you'd use the same screen name for any subsequent comments. This makes reading and following discussions easier, helps avoid confusion, and doesn't result in one person being credited for writing something s/he didn't. Comments by posters whose only purpose is to disrupt (i.e. trolls) will be subject to deletion. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
588 comments:
1 – 200 of 588 Newer› Newest»A race to be first!! How can it be? Where is everyone?
Lily, Congrats! I'm here...just didn't know what to say!
Hey Lily!
I went to BMA Miracle Camp too!!
Reposted from previous thread:
truth rules said...
The Commercial Appeal will have a large number of references in Sunday's edition. I believe that it will be on Wendy Thomas' page as well. This has been confirmed to be correct. Stay tuned should I know of anything additional about the subject. I found some interesting information out that I will post Sunday which will provide some background.
9:06 PM, March 29, 2007
TR: What do you mean by "references"????
From the front page of the forum:
"For eleven years now, I've had the privilege of escorting a 100-year-old church through a marvelous process of transition. This process continues, as it involves relocation to a new site, a new name, new ministries, and a new structure."
I have seen this over and over. Does this make sense? They come in, take an old established church, transition it, and then relocate.
To summarize...they come in and take your old, wonderful church, and then move out of it once they have destroyed the congregation and everything about it.
Any logic to this?
If you haven't read this 'How to Transition an Established Church', please do.
Thank you, thank you. (curtsey)
Hi Amy - I remember you said you were at BMA camp in Ringgold, LA. Some great memories and people! I still have my BMA hymnal and plan from it requently.
No comment on anything else regarding BBC. It's too sickening.
'Play from it frequently' was the intended remark. It has been a grueling day, brain is fried.
At 8:36 PM, March 29, 2007
Support Brother Cakes said...
Hey, I've quit the nasty cigarettes now over 2 1/2 weeks and I feel great.
I guess next I'll tackle swearing, then gluttony.
Eventually, women.
junk99mail says ...
Or keep the first three and you won't have to worry about the 4th. Maybe that's been the problem all along!
sotl says:
Hmmm, from this post, one would have to assume that standing for Christ and the Word of God is the SAME thing as standing for Brother STeve.
In other words, you cannot stand for Christ and the Word of God if you do not support the pedophile-harboring pastor.
REPLY: You know what they say about assuming. Seems like you would know better. PLEASE do not put words in my mouth. That is very dis-honest and is a normal practice on here
sotl said: Former President Clinton is coming to town on Saturday. Perhaps SG can go and sit with his mentor. Maybe pick up a few new 'tricks'..quivering lip, crying on cue, lying, manipulating, smoke and mirrors.
What a world of knowledge Bill Clinton could bestow on SG, or wait, maybe the other way around.
REPLY: Do you somehow think that glorifies Christ? Do you even care?
45
Dude, get the log out of your own eye.
Did SG glorify Christ when he allowed a child predator to roam the halls of BBC?
Does it glorify Christ for you to defend him?
watchingHISstory,
1 John 4:7-12
Karen said, 4545,
I haven't seen a reply from you to my post from this afternoon. Do you only post to those you deem worthy, i.e., agree with you and show blind devotion to Steve Gaines?
oc said:
Answer: yes. And he/she must be a track star, he/she runs an awful lot.
Karen, hey, I thought this was my rabbit. :)
REPLY: PLEASE do not answer for me and put words in my mouth. That is called dis-honest.
The fact is, I do not live for this blog. It is not important to me and I do not sit on here all day.
The church is made up of the body of believers and Steve Gaines and his Elders Smith, Tucker, Arnold Jr., Caldwell, Miller, and Taylor treat the church body like they only need to know the things they want them to know.
If a husband told his wife it was none of her business on matters of money and told her she didn't have any say-so in the household decisions, I'd say it wouldn't be much of a marriage.
I wonder how many men in Bellevue treat their wives they way they treat the congregation?
I believe any man who treats the congregation like this is does not love the church and is very hate filled
45,
You ask :
" Do you think that glorifies Christ?"
FINALLY!!! you get it!! NO, I do NOT think he honors Christ when he:
Cries his crocodile tears, quivers his little lip, lies, manipulates, puts on his smoke and mirrors for a fake business meeting, tresspasses on private property, cuts a check for $25,000 to an apostate church, hides a pedaphile, goes to Union city and slams us to another church, etc.
And those are just the things that he has ADMITTED to because he could not find a way to lie his way out of the fact that there was evidence.
Let me assure you of this, mr. deacon:
THESE THINGS ARE JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG, and NO, they do NOT glorify Christ, but YOU are the one that is supporting him, not me.
4545 said,
REPLY: Do you somehow think that glorifies Christ? Do you even care?
OC replies: Why are you acting like you do? Is Glorifying Christ mean making 'unfounded' statements(read this as 'flat out lies') then running away(read this as...as you will) then sneaking back in to take more cheap potshots, (read this as the same as the 'running away' comment).
Can you EVER back your 'stuff' up?
4545,
You make a very dangerous leap when you embrace a man for protecting a homosexual pedophile and you stand up for a man who stands behind the pulpit and bullies his sheep and calls a member Hezbollah.
Folks like you are dangerous to the church today. This is why the church is crumbling all over the world. Your attitude is the "ends justifies the means."
I think it's sickening and it needs to be purged from the church.
Line your thoughts up with the Word of God. It's not that hard.
sotl: The same old junk. trying to put it on someone else. you are in charge of yourself and what you say and do. trying to turn the focus around on someone else will not change the fact that you cannot defend MANY of your actions and they in know way represent Christ. all you and others do is give excuse after excuse. there are many more posts on this blog that include name calling, attacks, disrespct, hate etc, compared to those with serious issues discussed in a respectful Godly way.
How can you or anyone else point fingers at ANYONE?? How?? Take your own advice You and others cannot even go a few hours without attacking and spewing hate, but you point fingers at others.
Turn it on me all you want, it will not change anything
45, remove my name and put yours in its place.
I find it appauling that you cannot see that you are the one spewing hate.
You act like SG has done NOTHING, and that we are out of line for calling him on it. You are just mad that we are not willing to overlook sin in the pulpit, like you are obviously willing to do.
You think its a lie that he has done all these things. It matters not to you that he has admitted them.
You, sir, are the one that is lying when you CLAIM that we are lying. YOu are well aware that the allegations against him are true.
You just don't want it to be true, so you accuse us of lying.
Sorry, Mr. Deacon, but just because you don't like it, doesn't make it a lie.
SOTL,
Oh boy, hear comes the 'spewing' again...
Get your boots on!
oc,
Yep, i'm putting on a rain cape, cause here it comes!!!
oc,
I"m trying to find you a pool in which to swim...
So hold on...
Hey, I think that SBCer has a pool!!
Party at HER house!!!
4545,
Why do you keep pointing fingers at those on this blog?
4545 said
Even that aside, even those that do know them and their families and have the "facts", you are guilty of slander!! You seem to not care at all. Many of you will ignore this post and my words and somehow ignore the attitude of your own heart and the things that you say on this bog daily. You will ignore scripture and what the Word says when it applies to YOU, but hold every elses feet to the fire on everything they do.
Piglet says:
So what do you suggest, then? If folks in leadership, that are held to a higher standard, sin against God and the membership we should...shhhhhh...keep it quiet so they can go on doing it or it's called SLANDER?
Wouldn't that be convenient for them and our pastor?
And you're so concerned about hateful attitudes, why weren't you upset when Jim Whitmire, Rob Mullins, David Smith, Mark Sharpe and others were treated so hatefully? Was that okay?
I suppose if it weren't for all this SLANDER then so many folks wouldn't know about it would they? What a shame.
WOW. Sad. And so on.... :)
REPLY: Yet another post and another poster trying to justify slander etc. Trying to claim that is somehow ok and somehow not a sin. It is a sin and this blog is built on it. This blog has made it's name with slander. And some of you have the nerve to talk about others theology and obeying God's Word etc? This is as basic as it gets. A sin is a sin. It is not ok to sin because someone does something. It is not ok to slander and attack someone, regardless f what they have done. There is no justification.
So what do I suggest? As if you and others are forced to slander etc with no choice? That is trully sad. Try reading the Bible. It is very clear about what you should do. I am amazed I am even talking about this.
concernsbcer asked "TR: What do you mean by "references"????"
References to what will be announced Sunday. I am trying to protect the essence of the announcement. I just don't want this to be outside the proper context or it will just create the wrong result. I know that my words seems particular strange at times but I made a commitment to not revel anything of substance until the proper time. Yes, I know I am anonymous but many know who I am. I don't want to be premature in my communication but I am trying to be as open as possible. I think some may have already guessed but it would not be appropriate for me to respond to any guess, whether right or wrong. It will be all clear Sunday, maybe by the time the paper is delivered. But it will all make sense on Sunday.
socwork: I do not need to point fingers. The attacks and hate is in black and white for all to see. The posts seak for themselves.
45 asks:
How can you or anyone else point fingers at ANYONE?? How?
SOTL RESPONDS:
Well, let me take a shot at that:
I have not climbed a fence and trespassed, I did not cut a check for $25,000 to give to an apostate church, I did not go to union city and give a sermon and slam my own sheep, I have never harbored a pedophile, while allowing him to roam thru the halls around innocent children.
I have, however, tried my best to hold him accountable for those actions.
Apparently, that is worse to SOME PEOPLE than the fact that he actually DID them..
I know, I know..it's all lies and he never did any of that..
Tell me, Mr. Deacon, does that sand you have your head stuck in bother you?
4545,
Back to 5 days ago, yes, 5 days. Prove what you are saying. You can't, because you are the one slandering. And at least you have proven that in the last 5 days.
SOTL, I have a pool. I know the best places to dine in Memphis. Could you reconsider my application to join the club? I'm feeling left out of the fun...and I think you will find that I have a sense of humor.
4545 said: I do not need to point fingers. The attacks and hate is in black and white for all to see. The posts seak for themselves.
Yep, it's in black and white alright.
truth rules,
WEll, that DEPENDS....
You are gonna have to spill some stuff before we invite you to the party we are going to have at your pool. :)
sotl: Very serious question???????? So you are saying that it is NOT posible for you and others to post on this blog and deal with the issues and try and hold people accountable and all the others things yu want to do WITHOUT attacking, sewing hate, and making things personal? Is that what you are saying? Your issues etc are not what bother me. Just read. Just read through the posts, day after day. The tone of this blog is full of self and flesh and comes over so worldly. It seems that a group of Christians could discuss issues and problems in a Christian manor. In a Christ like way.
4545,
WHY are you here?
TR: I have a pool too...you'll have to make it worth their while!
Piglet, Mom4, SOTL: I wanta join too!!!
45
The VERY FACT that we are trying to hold SG and the elders accountable is hateful to you.
The VERY FACT that we discuss it at all is hateful to you.
The VERY FACT that SG did the things that we discuss is hateful to you.
The VERY FACT that we refuse to wink at sin in the pulpit is hateful to you.
IT seems that SOMEONE should take his OWN advice, MR.DEACON.
What about me? Got my froggie innertube all aired up and ready to go.
piglet, Mom4, sbcer, ya'll send back those applications that I sent to you and we'll get you in!!
We'll be having a meeting to learn the secret handshake next week!
SOTL wrote: "You are gonna have to spill some stuff before we invite you to the party we are going to have at your pool. :)"
I have weekend guests but I will attempt to get online early Sunday and post all. At that point I'm past my imposed commitment to as you say "spill some stuff".
Hey TR,
Please don't "bust a gut" with this information you have. Docbelleveue may have to be called in for emergency surgery and he goes to bed early.
How about holding something back for Monday morning quarterbacking? This group is awfully bad about gossip, you know. (wow!) So try to keep it in.
oc,
Well, of course you are in!!!
You are the Cabana Boy.
( can i say that on here?)
Hey, I could learn the secret hand shake, honest!
oc, do you have floaties for your arms too? And flippers for your feet?
SOTL,
thanks, I think.
Socwork,
Yes! I come fully equipped. No one will have to scrape me off the bottom of the pool. I hope. :)
I never get invited to pool parties or to join clubs ... :(
I'm gonna eat some worms...
truth rules,
You seem so different from the "truth rules" who was posting over the weekend. Are you the same person? Why the recent attitude adjustment? Trying to befriend the "dissenters" and get them to start some ugly rumors? Surely you wouldn't do anything like that!
Junk,
You can sneak in with me. You can hide in my froggie innertube.
oh, junk....
Of course you are invited!!!
The party is at Truth Rules house..right after his guests leave...
Junk...I'll email you a copy of the application.... you can count on me!
45 is going to park our cars for us.
45 says:
It seems that a group of Christians could discuss issues and problems in a Christian manor. In a Christ like way.
SOTL says:
As long as we are discussing SG, and all of his " mistakes of the mind", it is going to be hateful to you. We cannot discuss all of the things that SG has done and try to hold him accountable without you coming in here and calling us hateful. You obviously have something to gain by his staying, otherwise, why would any CHRISTIAN, in their right mind, support the UN CHRIST LIKE things that he has done?
HMMMMM?
NASS,
Same profile ID number, same profile create date & number of views ... looks the the same TR.
4545 said...
"Yet another post and another poster trying to justify slander etc. Trying to claim that is somehow ok and somehow not a sin. It is a sin and this blog is built on it. This blog has made it's name with slander. And some of you have the nerve to talk about others theology and obeying God's Word etc? This is as basic as it gets. A sin is a sin. It is not ok to sin because someone does something. It is not ok to slander and attack someone, regardless f what they have done. There is no justification."
*******
"Slander...l.The utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame or damage another's reputation. 2. A false and defamatory oral statement about a person." (Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary)
Steve Gaines has admitted and/or the evidence has shown that these are not false charges to which some on this blog have referred. If you feel so strongly about us, why don't you shake the dust off your feet and separate yourself from this blog on a permanent basis?
REPLY: Yet another post and another poster trying to justify slander etc. Trying to claim that is somehow ok and somehow not a sin. It is a sin and this blog is built on it. This blog has made it's name with slander. And some of you have the nerve to talk about others theology and obeying God's Word etc? This is as basic as it gets. A sin is a sin. It is not ok to sin because someone does something. It is not ok to slander and attack someone, regardless f what they have done. There is no justification.
So what do I suggest? As if you and others are forced to slander etc with no choice? That is trully sad. Try reading the Bible. It is very clear about what you should do. I am amazed I am even talking about this.
Piglet says:
You just called Jesus a slanderer. He called out the Pharisees and minced no words revealing what they were. The religious ego-maniacs of His day are no different than the ones we have today.
Sorry, but it IS personal!!!!! The sin in this group has affected our church home, our family. We're not here passing the time of day here discussing someone else's business for the fun of it. We are trying to hold one another up while "the men of God" at our church continue to tear us down, calling evil good and good, evil.
Call it slander, call it lies - I will not put up or shut up about the truth! I'm not so insecure in my faith that I need you to play Holy Spirit for me, 45!
"It seems that a group of Christians could discuss issues and problems in a Christian manor".
Or at least in a Christian cottage...
Sunday is April 1...April Fools Day.......
lwood,
You have just discovered the truth.
Ladies, gentlemen, and hate-filled bloggers,
It was just brought to my attention that Sunday is April Fools' Day. You might want to keep that in mind when reading and analyzing TR's posts.
Folks,
How many times has somebody come to this blog claiming to have inside info, or trying to get a rumor started, only find out it was a hoax to start trouble? Like the song says...believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear.
4545,
You can't even 'invent' an original post? blah blah blah...
4545,
You're repeating yourself. It's time for you to go. Good night, Mr. Deacon.
Yeah, NASS, open the window and let the fly out. :)
(That was just for you, Concerned)
I have 3 cats, in case anyone is interested.
Junk,
Still laughing about the 'Christian cottage' thing. Guess that's for the ones who can't afford the 'manor'.
truth,
Just for that, you are NOT invited to our party.
And for your information, April Fools Jokes should be played on April fools day. To play them ahead of time just makes you a liar.
SOTL
That would be a gossiper and a liar....
SOTL,
If TR was just doing an April Fools joke, I vote (congregationally approved) that you uninvite him to our party as his pool.
45,
Here's a newsflash for you:
I am NOT a pastor.
He should be ABOVE reproach.
He should be held to a HIGHER standard!!!
DUH
4545,
Yes.
Oh man, here comes the 'spewster' again! Get your umbrellas out! And your waders. Maybe some eye protection....
SOTL
I think the problem is, we are comparing Steve to Jesus and 45 is comparing Steve to us...
Steve still comes out looking pretty bad though.....
VICTORY IN JESUS
VICTORY IN JESUS
4545: I'm not sure what blog you are reading, but it's not this one. The tone of this blog is NOT hate. There is a quest for the Truth, and for accountability. We are not here to blow sunshine on anyone....we are here to seek, find, and share the truth. If the truth shows "your man" in a less than favorable light, that is certainly not our fault nor is it hate. We HATE sin, we HATE disobedience to God's Word, we HATE excuses for said disobedience, we HATE Holy Ground being defiled. Did I say anything about a specific person? No. You, my friend, make that jump all by yourself. Ever hear the old "Love the sinner; hate the sin"? That's where I am. My Lord is being mocked by the actions of one who is supposed to be serving. True discipline brings about repentance and reunification. A calling for accountability would hopefully have this desired effect. There is nothing hateful about praying to see a reconcilliation between God and man, God and church.
Thanks, piglet! ;)
Great post, Concerned.
Now hold 45 while I slap him a little. :)
JUST KIDDING 45! Amazing that I still have a sense of humor....y
concerned,
Well SAID!
Concerned.
Yeah! YOU ROCK!
Concerned,
You shine when it gets dark.
Dee
Truth Rules,
You are playing games with everyone.That's why your name has been Truth Ruse.
You came on this blog as a plant to hurt those of us already injured by the leadership that ignores the scriptural qualifications for ministers. You beat us with those same perverted scriptures.
Now you are baiting us by saying there will be a big announcement Sunday. There may be, but it won't be the truth we seek. The unbiblical leaders have had plenty of time to cover their tracks and cook the books.
Bet they get all open on us now......
Many that had listened to leadership and had not questioned or researched for themselves turned around after Sunday. They have been busy,brother and as one said to me ...our heads are no longer in the sand!!!
BM was so flustered when he got the cue to shut down the bogus meeting ,he slipped up with a word not spoken at all from the motion.
Not very long ago you were full of accusations.
You said to me...YOU INDEED(me,gmommy)are the ONE who said such and such about $30,000 check.
Everyone knows I am not the finance reporter. You never responded to me after that...I guess you sent in the replacement.
You slid in again all nice but most of us remember what you showed yourself to be. If nothing else,definitely ,a split personality.
I am not holding my breath. You will mock us on Sunday.
Your guys ,for whatever and maybe for different reasons, made a financial deal with the devil. Then they called in the CFO brute to cover their rears once they realized the itty bitty fence thing was just the beginning of events to come.
Hope all their pride and disobedience doesn't bankrupt what was once BBC. He has definitely shamed us on a national level and destroyed the heritage of Biblical obedience that BBC once represented.
We know about all the "meetings" taking place since their LACK of integrity shined bright this past Sunday.
Will we ever know the massive amounts of our hard earned money used for legal fees to cover the arrogance of those that insist on the body's submission but forget about being accountable to God for our souls??? Yes,there is more to that verse than the flock submitting to authority.
Shame on the deacons and the church men that didn't test with the scriptures for themselves what was being taught.
And worse for those who KNOW but do nothing!
It is a fearful thing to pervert God's word and not be concerned for the weaker ones who sit under this false teacher.
Don't try the "leave of absense" for health reasons on us. The truth seekers may leave the building but the truth will stand and eventually God will do what God does.He really doesn't need the little faithful minority to accomplish His will.
gmommy: The truth seekers may leave the building but the truth will stand and eventually God will do what God does.He really doesn't need the little faithful minority to accomplish His will.
Great thoughts. You are right, He doesn't. But I sure have been thankful He has allowed us to see with clarity what is really happening. He has blessed us by keeping us from being deceived.
gmommylv,
Words of wisdom! Amen!
Dee
4 8 15 16 23 42
Truth,
Don't you think that we have been through enough? Do you think it is easy being sneered at by our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, just becuase we desire to hold SG accountable?
Why would you do this to us?
I am ashamed of you, and I am embarassed FOR you.
Now, go away and please dont' come back here.
junk,
I've never watched that TV show, but I can Google!
NASS,
Save the cheerleader, save the world! :)
offline
(offline)
offline.
Concerned,
We HAVE been blessed. We are sheep in the midst of wolves.We must be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.....really precious.
..Fear them not, for there is nothing covered that shall not be revealed,or hidden that shall not be known.
Instead of following ,we turned to the ONE who will never leave us .....or lie to us!!!!
That is my version but I am getting better at it!
Melted to molded...
(offwhite)
OK,meant to be in bed 3 hours ago....offline too...sweet dreams!!!
Just an observation... in addition to Sunday being April Fools' Day, it's also opening day for Major League Baseball.
Hey, it's probably someone's birthday or anniversary, too.
Whatever...
tn_lizzie2000 wrote:
A Parable for Today - Part 1
From "Your Child and the New Age," 1990, which is now out-of-print.
High on a ridge overlooking the valley stood the King. Framed in the sun's fading light, his form rose like a monument of unyielding strength. Above his head swirled hostile, black clouds. Raging winds snatched at his coat. But he, who could quell the assault with a word, refused to be distracted. His eyes were set on the valley below. Capturing each tiny detail, he traced the movement of gathering armies. Suddenly his gaze rested on a shadowy form well hidden from ordinary sight. Anger and agony flashed across his noble face.
"Once I cherished that traitor," he mused, "but the Prince of Darkness only loved himself. I made him strong and beautiful, but he used my gifts to build his own throne. How could he think that his mutinous force could hinder my plan? Has he spoken his own lies so often that he has deceived himself as well as my people? His foolish pride kindled this war, but soon even his blinded slaves will see my triumph."
The King's focus moved from the enemy headquarters to the city nearby. Its people slept unconcerned, smug, oblivious to the scheming, waiting legions.
Tears stung the King's eyes as he spoke to the city he loved. "If only you had listened," he whispered softly. "If only you knew.... But you ignored my warnings and went your own way. You delighted in comfortable words that fit your own selfish dreams — lies and false promises that were more pleasant to your ears than the truth.
"My dear foolish people, open your eyes and see. I came to love and care for you, but you turned away. The thief came to steal and destroy, and you worship him. If you only knew where you are heading…"
Read more here.
This is interesting.
Post 1
Brooklyn Bob said...
4545 said...
Wow, yet another rumor.
4545, If it were not true you would be correct. Sorry, this is more than a rumor. This time you don't know what you are talking about. Your search committee really should have done their homework.
Please ask your preacher to tell you the truth and then report back to the blog tomorrow.
11:34 PM, March 26, 2007
Post 2
Brooklyn Bob said...
Sheepless,
I think the answers to this should come from the pastor. Some things should never be disclosed online. I never considered putting anything about his Brooklyn apartment on the internet. Others started that earlier today. When 4545 called it a rumor, I decided he needed to be corrected. I am not going to let him bully those people who are simply trying to find some answers. They love their church and want the truth.
As for Steve, it looks like he waited too late to do the right thing. He could have quietly left the ministry and kept his reputation intact. I may wonder forever why he didn't do that. Now, I fear all will be out in the open.
12:22 AM, March 27, 2007
We never heard back from 4545. If Truth Rules is right about an announcement, I suspect 4545 or one of his buddies took my suggestion about talking to the preacher.
Know thine enemy, know thyself.
In 1925 the SBC believed that the "salvation of sinners is WHOLLY OF GRACE, through the mediatorial office of the Son of God."
In 1963 they made an emergent leap of faith and became simi-pelagian saying: "Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all (rather than wholly of grace) who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer."
This is why SG can can preach a very short message and offer the sinner a chance to acknowledge God's love for him and be saved and not hinder the celebration and move hastily into deceitful business. The gospel takes a back seat.
Would SBC pastors before 1963 submit to this? I don't think so.
NASS: Your article post at 1:25 was fascinating. I think the most interesting part of the article, about 2/3 of the way in, was that the "Baptist model doesn't work. The congregationally approved model doesn't work." Also his point about doing the opposite of what he learned in a Southern Baptist seminary makes me wonder who he is following. Thanks for posting that.
1925 V heading, 'Justification' is dropped and the sentences are found in other headings. The exception is this deleted sentence: "This blessing (justification) is bestowed, not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done..."
"The blessings of salvation are made free to all by the gospel. It is the duty of all to accept them by PENITENT AND OBEDIENT faith. Nothing prevents the salvation of the greatest sinner except his own voluntary REFUSAL to accept Jesus Christ as teacher, Saviour, and Lord. ound in other headings."
This 1925 statement implies that the freely offered salvation can be refused. However the 1963 statements imply that the free offer is freely accepted. This is seeker friendly language that paves the way for easy-believism and spiritless evangelism.
Before 1963 most SBC preaching would be about the dangers of refusing so great a salvation. After 1963 preaching was changed to a more positive approach with less offensive language. It insults the Spirit of Grace and exalts the spirit of self-determination.
When you insult the Holy Spirit don't be surprised when you don't manifest His fruit.
'ound in other headings' was a slip!!!
That's okay, watching; we knew what you meant!
The "virtual" church has been around a few years..Andy Stanley started doing it. I guess the NT just isn't "innovative" enough for these pastors anymore. Before long, orthodox believers will have to gather in small enclaves..perhaps house churches, in order to escape the free-fall of American evangelicalism...especially in the SBC.
AOG: I agree with you, although I still have not been able to be totally comfortable with the idea of house churches. However, I came to love homeschooling, guess it's similar! And if it was good enough for the believers in Acts, guess it should be for us too. Times they are a changin'.
Bin Wonderin said...
True or false:
Under Roberts Rules of Order after the chair has announced the results of an affirmative vote on a motion to adjourn no other action by any member is allowed.
8:10 PM, March 29, 2007
Koragg said...
In the case of the meeting Sunday...False. According to Roberts Rules, the motion to adjourn lost its priviledged status because there was no provision made pertaining to a future meeting. Because of this, the motions that were already on the table should have been addressed before the motion to adjourn.
8:40 PM, March 29, 2007
The correct answer is false, but not for the reason given. The motion to adjourn was in order. See Chapter VII section 21 for more details. Quick answer - BBC was not "dissolved" on Sunday.
First, in plain English:
The chair should have recognized those that were trying to gain his attention after the motion to adjourn was made, and even after the vote was taken. There are a number of things they could have moved that were in order. A motion to set the date, location and time for the next meeting would have been in order even after the vote to adjourn was taken. Of course the motion to "Fix The Time To Which To Adjourn" [Robert's Section 22] which would set a date and time to meet again would have to pass with a majority vote.
The chair should have recognized those that were trying to get his attention even after the vote was announced. Why? Because the Rules say so. See pages 230 and 231. Also page 227.
Mistakes happen, but it is not too late to correct the error. Just set a meeting for April in accordance with the BBC bylaws requirement for monthly meetings. This time hire an unbiased professional mderator and parliamentarian that know the rules. Thanks.
I'd rather be a part of a membership of 10-15 believers who love and want to worship the LORD and Him only...even if they had to meet in a house, than the most glamorous, well-equipped, but largely unregenerate mega-church.
In "non plain English" for those that care:
Page 230 - 231 Robert's
PARLIAMENTARY STEPS THAT ARE IN ORDER WHILE THE PRIVILEGED MOTION TO ADJOURN IS PENDING, OR AFTER THE ASSEMBLY HAS VOTED TO ADJOURN.
Although the privileged motion to Adjourn is undebatable, the following parliamentary steps are in order while it is pending:
…to inform the assembly of business requiring attention before adjournment; to make important announcements; to make (but not to take up*) a motion to reconsider a previous vote; to make a motion to Reconsider and Enter on the Minutes (pp. 321-24); to give notice of a motion to be made at the next meeting (or on the next day, in a session consisting of daily meetings) where the motion requires previous notice (see pp. 116-18); and to move to set a time for an adjourned meeting (9, 22) if there is no meeting scheduled for later within the same session.
Page 227 Robert's
The privileged motion to Adjourn: Takes precedence over all motions except the privileged motion to Fix the Time to Which to Adjourn [see pages 234-239]… It also yields to any applicable incidental motions [see Robert’s chapter VIII] that may arise and that must be disposed of before the motion to Adjourn is voted on;…
AOG: I agree. More now than ever.....
I couldn't sleep and have been at my counseling booth since way before sunrise.
Brother Linus had an idea . . . Research 'Truth Rules' from the first posts.
I know . . . I know . . . Some of you are going to think that I fell off the cabbage truck and cracked my skull. Hold your fire until after Sunday.
Linus & I decided that we like Truth Rules. If our instinct is right (& we reserve the right to be wrong, of course) Truth Rules has told us the truth all along.
Today is Friday. On Sunday, we will know the truth for sure.
Thank you 'Truth Rules' for all the help you have tried to give us along the way. It is appreciated by those in my counseling booth. One day I hope to meet you and thank you in person.
Truth Rules,
Tell me one thing. Is Sunday's announcement a wise decision in your opinion (which we all have a right to)?
Folks,
If 'Truth Rules' is shooting straight, either way it's time to be sober and pray for the heartbroken people in the next 48 hours. If he's not, then pray for me, because my counseling booth will be 'out of order' for quite a while.
Lucy
Save your 5 cents until Sunday. Guessing that I will have a pile of them then!
bin wonderin,
Thanks for your post on Robert Rules of Order.
I agree with your request for another April meeting to fix the wrong that was committed Sunday.
Who was the parliamenatarian Bellevue paid to consult with? What is his name and where is he from?
I'd like to know why the church money was used to silence the memeber?
What is his relationship with Jim Angel?
Did Jim Angel meet with or speak to this man at anytime before this meeting?
Brian Miller and David Coombs did to have a plan to "slam the meeting door shut" at the disignated signal.
It's obvious Jim Angel was in the middle of the plan.
I was willing to give the leaderhip the benefit of the doubt on this meeting until I saw with my own eyes a preplanned shutdown of a legitimate meeting.
There are many in the church who have the right to be heard and have gone about it this past Sunday just like the leadership has been harping for the past year.
When the time came, they showed me their real intentions.
I am sick over what I saw.
We need a complete change of leadership including a new pastor.
This time hire an unbiased professional mderator and parliamentarian that know the rules.
Lucy: I'm willing to have an open mind too. I guess we'll find out! TR: I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.
The LIGHT that was Blinding Darkness
Book Review of " The Light that was DARK"
Former New Ager Warren Smiths compelling true story of conversion from New Age to Jesus Christ
THE LIGHT THAT WAS DARK BOOK REVIEW
"I was willing to give the leaderhip the benefit of the doubt on this meeting until I saw with my own eyes a preplanned shutdown of a legitimate meeting."
Earlier this week, David Coombs admitted they had no intention of allowing new business to be heard.
He also said it would have been inappropriate for PW's son to speak. He went on to say they have no intention of ever allowing a forum for grievances.
Anyone else surprised at his candor?
nathanb said...
"We need a complete change of leadership including a new pastor."
*******
100% true and accurate assessment.
doc,
At this point nothing surprises me that administration does...it's been "in your face" from day one from them...no matter what the by-laws say or the law of the land, they've thumbed their noses at all of it, and anyone who dares to question them.
docbellevue said...
"I was willing to give the leaderhip the benefit of the doubt on this meeting until I saw with my own eyes a preplanned shutdown of a legitimate meeting."
Earlier this week, David Coombs admitted they had no intention of allowing new business to be heard.
He also said it would have been inappropriate for PW's son to speak. He went on to say they have no intention of ever allowing a forum for grievances.
Anyone else surprised at his candor?
8:25 AM, March 30, 2007
That is a sad admission. I am surprised because it is so disappointing to hear church leaders say such things.
How do we teach children to follow the rules when church leaders break rules that are inconvenient? Does breaking the rules honor God?
If they want to be kings at least follow procedure, make a motion to move to monarchy from democracy and let the serfs vote on it.
Creating deliberate dissatisfaction:
The OCCULT infiltration OF CHURCHES nationwide TO DESTROY THEM FROM WITHIN.
CHURCHES ACROSS AMERICA INFILTRATED AND BEING DESTROYED FROM WITHIN
SOTL said...
We'll be having a meeting to learn the secret handshake next week!
Have I now shown that to you yet? I copied it from a certain sorority at Union when I went there!
karen
Karen and SOTL: I've never been in a sorority; this will be fun!!!!
Handy Dandy Change Agents' guide to dealing with those pesky Bible Believing Resisters:
CHANGE AGENTS GUIDE TO DEALING WITH RESISTERS
Watchman,
You really ARE a watchman--and a very good one.
Brothers and Sisters! Don't be lazy and/or having too much fun. These links are wake-up calls. Don't be caught sleeping like the disciples did when Jesus had asked them to be praying.
Dee
2006
Your very kind words of encouragement are welcome and appreciated.
All praise and honor to My Lord who bought my pardon with His prescious blood.
Watchman
THIS IS IMPORTANT - THANKS WATCHMAN!
Please read the account of ousting the disenters from GARDENDALE BAPTIST CHURCH:
Yet unfair and misleading labels continue to undermine the credibility of faithful believers. In the article "165 members ousted from Gardendale Baptist," Brad Olson wrote,
"Members of Gardendale Baptist Church voted Sunday to expel about 165 members from their congregation because they did not support the leadership of the church's pastor.... In a letter to the congregation, Micah Davidson, the church's pastor, called a business meeting after a July 18 baptismal service at which members would vote on the following statement: 'Pastor Micah is the God-called pastor for Gardendale and is leading us in God's direction or not.'... 'If the church votes for me to stay,' he wrote, 'those who vote against me will be removed from membership in the family immediately.'
"The vote was about 750 to 165 in favor of the pastor, according to John Gilbert, administrative pastor of the church. Immediately after the vote of confidence, members voted to revoke the memberships of those who voted against Davidson. Gilbert said that of the 165 members who were 'removed from membership,' all could come back to church if they 'signed a covenant for church unity.'...
"Gilbert said the controversy arose over Davidson's leadership and changes relating to certain programs in the church. 'Most of it centered around Micah's leadership," Gilbert said. "Some people liked it and some didn't like it. This whole thing is like a divorce. You have new leadership and some of the old leadership decides they don't want to follow the new leadership.'
"Our church is totally committed to reaching people in the community. Some people were willing to sacrifice some personal preferences [set aside offensive Scriptures and Biblical teaching in order to gain more members?] and traditions and some were not willing to do that."
"Gilbert said opposition in the church was impeding the church's progress. He said the members could not vote on every decision Davidson made, but could vote on whether he was called by God to be pastor.' They just couldn't continue with the gossip and slander and misinformation,' he said." www.caller.com/ccct/cda/article_print/0,1983,CCCT_811_3050141_ARTICLE-DETAIL-PRINT,00.html
Bingo Karen
Those who do not learn from History are doomed to repeat it.
From the Watchman's link in his post at 9:04 AM:
One reason why people conform to the seductive "change process" in evangelical churches is the fear of loss. Rejection hurts. But such fear is useful for today's change agents. Just as severe public punishment has through the ages been used to frighten the masses into outward conformity, so fear of personal rejection now prompts people of all ages "to go along to get along."
SOTL says:
Father God,
Please instill in me the Holy Spirit so strongly that I would stand in the middle of Times Square, alone, if necessary, to stand for truth, to stand for YOU.
Let me NEVER be silenced for fear of rejection from man. Amen.
Karen,
Just a note:
The Gardendale Baptist referred to in that article is from Corpus Christi, Texas.
watchman urges
prayer....
persisent and powerful prayer
That GOD will intervene on behalf of His chidlren, and in support of those who love TRUTH and Transparency in the BODY of Christ.
SOTL prayed...
Father God,
Please instill in me the Holy Spirit so strongly that I would stand in the middle of Times Square, alone, if necessary, to stand for truth, to stand for YOU.
Let me NEVER be silenced for fear of rejection from man. Amen.
*******
SOTL,
When I read this, I thought of how strong the Lord has made you. He has used all of the adversity in your life to increase your endurance in the battle and this for His purpose. Your prayer reveals this in you. What a blessing you are to us!
*******
Watchman,
It is impossible to single out any one or two statements from this material you are giving us because it is ALL so obviously pertinent to the trials through which we are currently struggling. These things are absolutely amazing to read! It is as though someone wrote an exact description of the game plan of the leadership of Bellevue Baptist Church. There IS a HALLELUJAH in this scary stuff, though. We KNOW that the Lord Jesus is so near to us now and truly may snatch us up to meet Him in the clouds--even TODAY. These are the END TIMES. No doubt.
Thank you for your watchfulness.
JESUS IS LORD OF ALL!
Dee
2006 Huldah,
Revelation 22:20
"20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."
What a day that will be!!! Amen and Hallelujah!
Docbellevue said...
Earlier this week, David Coombs admitted they had no intention of allowing new business to be heard.
Then what we witnessed was nothing but a show. I had hopes that some sensible motions could be debated. Now it looks like it was about as fair as a Cuban election.
I swear I must be living in the Twilight Zone because this can't be the church I've been a member of since the 70's.
watchman,
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
I don't understand the "unity covenant" thing. How is it that men require their membership to sign a unity covenant, yet God Himself doesn't? You might as well call BBC "Stepford Church" if leadership is attempting to take away their members right to question. We can question God (I do all the time!), but He doesn't throw us out if we question Him.
karen
karen
Guys...
Our Lindon is featured on Ken Silva's Christian Research Network today, a well reknown and respected discernment ministry. Used to be called Slice of Laodicea. We are fortunate to have Lindon posting with us and sharing her knowledge of God's word and the church growth movements.
It is here
Ima
sickofthelies said...
Karen,
Just a note:
The Gardendale Baptist referred to in that article is from Corpus Christi, Texas.
Good to know - I hope there's never an article like this regarding BBC.
karen
Concerned said
AOG: I agree with you, although I still have not been able to be totally comfortable with the idea of house churches. However, I came to love homeschooling, guess it's similar! And if it was good enough for the believers in Acts, guess it should be for us too. Times they are a changin'.
Piglet says:
Groan....I do agree with you, Concerned, but the problem is - I ALREADY feel like I live in a cave. I really look FORWARD to getting OUT of the house....
Karen said
I don't understand the "unity covenant" thing. How is it that men require their membership to sign a unity covenant, yet God Himself doesn't? You might as well call BBC "Stepford Church" if leadership is attempting to take away their members right to question. We can question God (I do all the time!), but He doesn't throw us out if we question Him.
Piglet says:
AMEN!! But remember Karen, Gaines has put himself ABOVE God's law....
The Anti-Christ will also demand such a loyalty....
piglet said...
The Anti-Christ will also demand such a loyalty....
I am NOT getting another tattoo!
karen
Ima,
In reference to the "buggy" conversation yesterday, I do have a ladybug tattoo, so maybe you can consider "buggy"! :)
karen
karen wrote:
"I am NOT getting another tattoo!"
Another tattoo? Uhhh... nope. NASS won't ask!
Oh, sorry. Didn't see your 11:22 post. But I won't ask where that ladybug is! I've met Karen, and I've never seen it. 'Nuff said.
NASS,
It only gets seen in tank tops (which ain't often!)
karen
Karen,
So...it looks like you have now let the 'bug' out of the bag doesn't it? He..he!!!
Ima
It's interesting that all the instructions on "transitioning" a church presuppose the need for it. It's all "how" and no "why". For example, it says "Begin to Use A Praise Team", even noting that there may be a strong reaction against it. Why? The only reason I can think of is that it is more appealing to the flesh and, therefore the world -- it's "seeker friendly." The American Idol culture wants to see entertainers emoting, and if they're easy on the eyes, all the better.
I could almost understand the need for a praise team in a small setting that had no room for a choir, but why at Bellevue, which has one of the biggest choir programs in the world? What's the point? The point is to have something more provocative to look at.
It has been noted that the praise team members are typically not so rhapsodic when simply singing in the congregation. In other words, their platform demeanor is a put on, for show, to look at. Why do we need this? I do not go to church to be entertained.
I don't know what Truth Rules had in mind, but the Bellevue Today is out and the only thing out of the norm in the morning service is the Lord's Supper. Have we ever had that on a Sunday morning before?
Piglet: You can still get out of the house! Let's do lunch!!!
Having been impacted by PDL almost 10 years ago in a church split, I have tried to keep up with it. Watchman, you have dome a FANTASTIC job of helping us to be informed on the big picture. Anyone who says BBC and Warrenism/PDL/CGM aren't related is kidding themself. It is Warrenism and whether sg says it isn't or not....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....you know the rest. It's right out of the playbook.
Whatasham and Dee: Amen. Come, Lord Jesus, Come.
Gods Blessings to all of His faithful bride..
Here is a link to a page with the BIG BIG BIG BIG PICTURE.
categorized and alpahbetized..
Big Big Big Big Picture ....list of links and topics
Evangelist Rick Ousley withdraws from speaking circuit after affair
Note that:
1. Ousley only ceased, confessed and "repented" after being outted.
2. He'll be back. Ousley doesn't consider sexual immorality, even long-term, a disqualification from ministry.
3. Neither does his organization's board of directors, hence their reevaluation in 60-90 days.
Sound familiar?
My mistake -- the board's not being quite that hasty. The reevaluation comes in 90-120 days, more than enough time to deal with decades of immorality.
Only the prince of darkness could come up with SUCH a SELF SERVING policy as the toleration of evil and overt suppression of TRUTH , and blasphemously calling this toleration of evil and suppression of TRUTH ..."LOVE", far worse still is having so many who call themselves Holly Spirit filled Beleivers lining up in subjection to such a monstrously Satanic lie right within the four walls of the Visible Church. May God cause us to waken from spiritual stupor and to see the sulphur of the enemies lies through GODS eyes as revealed by HIS WORD AND BY HIS SPIRIT and not shrink from calling TOLERATION OF EVIL the sulphuric lie that it is.
Romans 12;9
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
"Abhor" means to hate evil and to despise evil with all your soul.
Yes, Mildred...it is A-OK to HATE the devil and evil and lies, and false doctrine , and THE LIKE.
I WOULD RATHER BE DIVIDED BY TRUTH WHICH FIRST HURTS THEN HEALS, THAN TO BE UNITED AND COMFORTED BY LIES WHICH FIRST SOOTHE , THEN KILL.
all2Jesus,
I don't go to church to be entertained either. In fact, if I were the pastor at Bellevue right now, I would do away with the bookstore, the fancy cruises, the Singing Christmas Tree, the Living Pictures (passion play), the love offering, special offerings for those on staff who are leaving the church, and any special ministry features that members and/or outsiders have to pay a fee to attend.
I would instead focus on active missions in the community and abroad with the church absorbing the costs according to the amount of funds available. We would be known as the church who honors the Lord Jesus by helping those in need. The Benevolent Fund would be a major part of our missions, too, helping many in/out of the church BUT members in need first. We would still have Vacation Bible School and it would be called JUST THAT--no fancy names. There would be no DiscipleLife classes, just Wednesday night Prayer Meeting, and we would PRAY. We would have a fellowship supper once a week and people would bring a dish or two. The church would not be cooking. You could buy something to bring at the deli or a restaurant if you didn't have time to cook. Also, the more you cooked the better it would be--like a supper dish and a cake. The church would provide the disposable dinnerware and drinks like coffee, water, tea, lemonade. We would have fellowship supper time until 6:45 and prayer service starting at 7:00. We would regularly pray for the servicemen in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. We would have a voluntary prayer ministry of which only the stouthearted would want to belong, because this would be a dedicated, fervent bunch of mighty, enduring prayer warriors. The members of this team (hopefully a large group) would rotate duty because these people would become known for their effectual, fervent prayer AND prayers of deep faith in getting direct, visible answers and responses from the Lord. If a matter was called to the attention of this group, folks would come to know that the Lord would be hearing and responding because of the depth of sincerity of the prayers. We would have a help line where people could call in and submit requests for help of various kinds. The very least those people would receive is a prayer immediately over the phone, and all calls would be followed up on. There would be no more skits or acting-type performances, and no more Hollywood movie sets or plays. There would be no i2 or special age group meetings except for Sunday School and maybe a junior church for the very young children--say 6 or 7 years old or younger. Music? Mostly choir. Orchestra? I might go with it depending on a vote of the members. Honoring the Lord would truly be our focus. Honoring Him with our lives, our obedience, our dress, our speech, our service, and our visible love for our brothers and sisters would always be our goal. Anybody else want to contribute to our new Bellevue?
*******
libertyinChrist,
I just ordered the new MacArthur book yesterday. Is it good?
*******
concernedsbcer,
Yes, come Lord Jesus! Amen.
Dee
re: Rick Ousley
Hmmm, makes me wonder if there was more to the abrupt ending to the meeting at BBC the other day than what meets the eye.
I still don't understand the vote to NOT vote on sexual immorality in the pulpit.
It appears as though men, these days, are writing their own gospel with regard to sexual immorality.
Why would BBC not want a policy where we would not tolerate sexual immorailty in the pulpit?
Are they trying to lower the bar? If so, why?
Liberty,
Just ordered "The Truth War - Fighting for certainty in an Age of Deception". Didn't realize it was out. My husband and I will be anxious to read it.
HUDLAH,
You know MacArthur...anything he writes is excellent.
Ima
SOTL,
Your question about why they would not want rules about sexual immorality at Bellevue made me think of a tape I listen to often from Dr. Rogers on apostasy in the church centered in the book of Jude. He says that it states in there that when the pastor is an apostate pastor, there is always deep sexual sin or perversion present. Dr. Rogers says to study in Jude and you will see what it is saying about such. Ever since I heard him say that, I have wondered about why SG seemed to be desirous of looking the other way on PW. The thought had never crossed my mind until I heard Dr. Rogers preach it.
Dee
Oh, yes! I forgot (2:02 post) to mention the July 4th celebration. We would NOT be shooting/burning $100,000-200,000 worth of fireworks when there are people in our very own membership who are stuggling to buy clothes, shoes, food and a roof. There are already so many fireworks shows around here, they can't spread 'em out enough to where you can see them all. I never was able to get close enough to even hear any of the music or preaching, and I am sure that none of the people around me could hear it either.
Dee
Did I scare you away?
Dee: Like your idea for a church. When do we start?
By the way....don't forget Training Union.
Concerned,
See that's why we all need to put our heads together on this. I was raised in the Methodist church and we had MYF (Methodist Youth Fellowship) on Sunday nights. Isn't that when Training Union typically is held?
Dee
PS. By the way, I was bored to death with MYF and the Methodist Church and was saved when I was 25 at a non-denominational Bible church.
Dee,
I am too far away to attend, but surely would like to. It is my ideal.
Ima
Hey, can I go to this church. I wanna go!!!
I really am getting excited now. We've got a couple of members lined up now. What do y'all want to name our church? (You can joke around a little on this question because we know we wouldn't really name it the "No Frills, Know Jesus" Church.)
Dee
how about the 'First Baptist, No Pedophile Harboring,NoFence Jumping, No Misappropriating of Funds, No Intimidating 'Lesser' Members, Etc. Church of Believers Who Are Sick of These Things'
Need to start an offering just for the sign.
I like it, OC.
More?
OC: Good name...just not sure it would fit on a tithe check! SOTL suggested Truthseekers Baptist. I really like it....however, would the seekers part be compromising??? It's a shame it might.....
Ima: Why don't you just move on down and join us?
I do not say much on here...first of all because it does not accomplish much of anything, but also, I want to be certain that what I say is 100% accurate. Let me say now, after all I have witnessed, I believe Bellevue Baptist Church is no longer effective in ministry and the church we have known and loved for so long is GONE. Second, let me say this. There has been a lot of misinformation given out about The United Methodist Church and their stand on homosexuality and abortion. Now it could possibly be true that certain United Methodist congregations hold to a different belief than the official stand of the denomination, but the OFFICIAL STAND OF THE UNITED METHODIST CHURCH IS AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY AND AGAINST ABORTION. Also, just a word to those who are seeking transparancy in the church. United Methodist Churches have a MONTHLY BUSINESS MEETING, THAT'S RIGHT, M O N T H L Y!!!!!!!. Also, EVERY PENNY is accounted for on the financial statement for the month, including, (fasten your seat belt), the salaries of all church personnel....INCLUDING ALL MINISTRY STAFF....INCLUDING THE SENIOR PASTOR!!!!!!!Gasp, and it actually WORKS!!!!!!!
It makes me sick to see our beloved Bellevue in this terrible mess. It is so obvious that the leadership is hiding something because if there was nothing to hide, why fear transparency?
May God bless The United Methodist Church for their stands that they take on leading people to Jesus and their Godly example of how to properly conduct the business of the church in a transparent manner and may the day come when Bellevue can conduct it's business in the same way.
Thanks Ima, It must have been a slow news day at CRN!! :o)
I too grew up in MYF through the United Methodist Church. I was saved at 21, through the ministry of the Baptist Student Union at then-MSU. (Thanks, Ron!)
There are other issues to disagree with, but the UMC does have a denominational government that works. MUCH could be learned from them, if anyone is truly interested in starting a new church...
Speaking of which, would anyone be interested in meeting at a park or somewhere to worship the Risen Christ on April 8?
How about a bring-your-own-Bible, bring-lunch-to-share, bring blankets/chairs kind of service where we sing hymns and read scripture and invite God to join us? All ages would be welcomed, and families would be expected to sit together for the service...
Anyone interested?
bellevue friend,
Everybody in my family is still in the Methodist Church. My older brother goes to Germantown Methodist (good pastor since Martha left), St. Luke's Methodist, and I forgot the name of my younger brother's Methodist Church in Peachtree City, GA, but they have a great service. I appreciate the holiness of the service. My husband can't stand the Apostle's Creed. My daddy always said that THAT is how you make it known that you are a follower of Jesus Christ in front of the whole church. I still enjoy visiting any of these churches with my family members, though, because that was how I grew up. My husband and I tried Christ United Methodist Church in the early 90s and were surprised their pastor gave an invitation just like in the Baptist church. My husband didn't like it, though, when the pastor started saying that we should give thanks to George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King for all they did for our country. He felt that a worship service is only for the Lord Jesus and not any man.
Dee
"I don't understand the "unity covenant" thing. How is it that men require their membership to sign a unity covenant, yet God Himself doesn't? You might as well call BBC "Stepford Church" if leadership is attempting to take away their members right to question. "
Karen, it is amazing how many churches are doing just this. Saddleback has done it in the past. Not sure if they are doing it now. One thing the covenant says it that they promise not to critisize the church (which includes leadership)
Some churches are doing something similar in their new member classes but not asking for a actual signed covenant.
What does this mean? It means people will not question the teaching or the methods.
It is amazing that independent Americans much less "Baptists" who have ALWAYS eschewed this sort of strong arming are falling for it.
There was a time in history when AnaBaptists burned at the stake rather than agree with false teaching.
Dee, ima, oc,
How about "Truth" ~ That would fit nicely on a tithe check!
Is there a local church with that name already? Truth Church?
No, there is not one that I am aware of......
There's one in Conn. one in Bremen, GA, one in VA, one in Panama City, FL, one in Jacksonville, FL and one in Yuma, AZ. Don't know which ones are SBC or Independent.......but none are showing up in Tennessee.
There is a Truth Seekers Fellowship on Estate Dr., and there is a Truth, Inc. on Summer Ave.
I like it. Truth Church
Sounds good.
uhhh...Dee....Truth Baptist Church? Or are we giving up on the SBC too?
Heh, there used to be a church here in Memphis, downtown I believe, called "Minimum Salary Baptist Church". :-D Howzat?
Just askin' :)
concernedSBCer said...
"Ima: Why don't you just move on down and join us?"
It is tempting. I did live in Memphis once upon a time. :)
Dee Wrote: I don't go to church to be entertained either. In fact, if I were the pastor at Bellevue right now, I would do away with the bookstore, the fancy cruises, the Singing Christmas Tree, the Living Pictures (passion play), the love offering, special offerings for those on staff who are leaving the church, and any special ministry features that members and/or outsiders have to pay a fee to attend.
I would instead focus on active missions in the community and abroad with the church absorbing the costs according to the amount of funds available. "
Amen! We have brothers and sisters in China in PRISON right now for the Name of Christ. Their families suffer so much. They have a hard time getting jobs if they are Christians. We have brothers in India who cannot buy shoes for their children who are itinerant pastors and under constant harrassment from the Government.
I heard from a sister today in Cambodia who has a very sick child and is home with 2 other children while her husband is off for a month to distant villages preaching and teaching. Please pray for her as the last time her child was this sick she had to go to the hospital which is NOT pleasant in these countries. (Did you know you have to bring food to your family member in the hospital in many countries? Sometimes you even have to bring your own drugs!)
We should be planting churches and training native pastors all over the world. We should be taking care of our brothers and sisters in need.
I am NOT talking about Works or a PEACE plan. I am talking about our brothers and sisters in need all over the world.
OT: Tithe 10% of first fruits
NT: If your brother is in need, sell your possessions and give him the money.
lin,
Are you kidding me? That "article" was brilliant - I copied and pasted it to an email to my friends and family around the country. Keep 'em coming!
karen
Dee,
Your description sounds like a church I went to in Hawaii in the 70s. Funny story - the music director there was the brother in law of Linda Whitmire, so when my dad got orders to Memphis, he directed us to Bellevue and we've been there ever since. I met the Whitmire daughters long before we moved to Memphis. God works in funny ways, huh?
karen
The way the conversation is going, instead of Minimum Salary Baptist Church it could be Maximun Service Baptist Church!
I am at a church that teaches the Truth; probably one of the few that are left. But I would love to feel a part of a fellowship again; one where my college age kids can converse and grow instead of discussing the latest ball game or the new color of lipstick. There are other times to discuss stuff like that; church should have the focus on our Lord. JMHO
"Kool Aid Free Baptist"
"Saints We Ain't Baptist"
"Longsuffering Baptist"
"Sackcloth and Ashes" (we could have a "bring your own broken pottery" day)
"Controversy Free Baptist"
"Truth Spoken Here Baptist"
ok, I'm done ;)
karen
And for those who don't wake up in time for the 8:00 service, how about "Bedside Baptist," a Baptist version of "St. Mattress Catholic."
:o)
Truth Baptist Church ~ I like it, I like it!
One thing to think about when with your new church: Family Worship.
We have 2 generations now that are going to think church is entertainment. Teach your children how to worship and worship our Savior together as a family.
Why are we separating the youth? Why are we sending them to learn from each other? They need to be around wise old saints. For many reasons but also because the wise old saints will love on them.
I laugh when people say they cannot pay attention when their kids are in there...I sat ALONE on the front seat starting from age 4 because my mom was the organist. I did not dare act up. All she had to do was look over and arch her eyebrow and I knew I had-had it! :o)
All this talk of the new church is making me nostalgic...training union...which used to mean...training you in scripture. I have one of those old panoramic (wide angle) pictures of the 1945 SBC Training Union conference taken at Ridge Crest. My mom and her twin are in the picture that includes hundreds from all over the south...including Tenn!
These names are something else! What don't you just call it the Castaway BC, or maybe the Titanic Baptist Church, or better yet the Resistors Baptist Church. There is a name out there for you. Narrow Path Baptist? Survivor's BC? Lifeboat BC? Stray Sheep BC? Oh my...the list is endless! Oh I got it...the Bellenew Baptist Church!
bellevue friend,
Thank you for your post. Please understand that the objections raised here are in direct response to the congregationally unapproved donation to the First United Methodist Church in Memphis that was destroyed by fire last year. We know that this particular church does not hold true to the convictions of most Methodists and I am sorry if you were offended in any way. I have very dear Christian friends who are faithful members of Christ United here in Memphis and I understand where you may take offense to our objection to the use of the Methodist name so frequently. I have not read all of the posts, but I do know most of the bloggers personally and I can tell you than the ones I know would never say or do anything to offend you on purpose.
I do appreciate you sharing your business meeting information. I only pray that one day, we can do likewise. Thank you for your prayers for BBC.
I just e-mailed Dee, but I thought I'd post some of it here (since I've just figured out HOW to get on here again!!)
_____________________________________
Do you have any idea what plans IDC has? What will they do when BBC leadership proves to them that they don't care about Integrity and they are not going to give us our church building back?
I am really interested in a "New" church. I like [Dee's] ideas, but I think would prefer a "family-friendly" church. A place where families are taught to study scripture at home, led by Dad hopefully. Just think: If families studied all week on certain scriptures, and preaching at the Sunday worship service covered those scriptures more deeply, can you imagine the spiritual maturity that would be developed?!?
We'd need some Godly men to lead us. Know where we can find any?
_____________________________________
Bellevue Friend,
I whole heartedly agree with Mom4! Christ United Methodist's minister has said that he doesn't agree with theologies and philosophies of the female pastor of FUMC (I know because my best friend attend Christ United; you can also call Christ United and get the same answer). We know that not all Methodist churches are as liberal as FUMC, as Mom4 said, we didn't mean to offend you with our vehemence against the donation to FUMC.
karen
Truth wrote: The Commercial Appeal will have a large number of references in Sunday's edition. I believe that it will be on Wendy Thomas' page as well. This has been confirmed to be correct. Stay tuned should I know of anything additional about the subject. I found some interesting information out that I will post Sunday which will provide some background"
So, let me get this straight. The media will know before the congregation?
ima,
I'm surprised if Bellevue's name isn't changed to Gainesville Baptist - Bellevue Baptist Church used to be at 70 N. Bellevue Ave so that's where the name came from. Incidentally, Mississippi Blvd. Christian Church now sits at 70 N. Bellevue Avene. Confused? :)
karen
tn_lizzie...
Sounds like you all need to attend the True Church Conference at First Baptist Church of Muscle Shoals in Muscle Shoals, AL. What a wonderful way to kick off new ideas and motivation. Not to mention the great line up of pastors that will be there. Jeff Noblit and Paul Washer are two great men. Check it out. I am going.
Ima
The Lonliness of A Christian
By A.W. Tozer
The loneliness of the Christian results from his walk with God in an ungodly world, a walk that must often take him away from the fellowship of good Christians as well as from that of the unregenerate world. His God-given instincts cry out for companionship with others of his kind, others who can understand his longings, his aspirations, his absorption in the love of Christ; and because within his circle of friends there are so few who share his inner experiences he is forced to walk alone.
The unsatisfied longings of the prophets for human understanding caused them to cry out in their complaint, and even our Lord Himself suffered in the same way.
The man [or woman] who has passed on into the divine Presence in actual inner experience will not find many who understand him. He finds few who care to talk about that which is the supreme object of his interest, so he is often silent and preoccupied in the midst of noisy religious shoptalk. For this he earns the reputation of being dull and over-serious, so he is avoided and the gulf between him and society widens.
He searches for friends upon whose garments he can detect the smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia out of the ivory palaces, and finding few or none he, like Mary of old, keeps these things in his heart.
It is this very loneliness that throws him back upon God. His inability to find human companionship drives him to seek in God what he can find nowhere else."
"I'm surprised if Bellevue's name isn't changed to Gainesville Baptist - Bellevue Baptist Church used to be at 70 N. Bellevue Ave so that's where the name came from. Incidentally, Mississippi Blvd. Christian Church now sits at 70 N. Bellevue Avene. Confused? :)"
I can 'one up' you on that. We have a 'Walnut Street Baptist Chruch' That was on Walnut Street for 120 years....until they changed the name of the street 20 years ago to...are you ready....Muhammad Ali Blvd.
This is my "theme song". I guess that doesn't speak well of me, but it is the truth about where I am.
Clumsy (Crhis Rice)
You think I’d have it down by now
Been practicin’ for thirty years
I should have walked a thousand miles
So what am I still doin’ here
Reachin’ out for that same old piece of forbidden fruit
I slip and fall and I knock my halo loose
Somebody tell me what’s a boy supposed to do?
I get so clumsy
I get so foolish
I get so stupid
And then I feel so useless
But You’re sayin’ You love me
And You’re still gonna hold me
And that You wanna be near me
‘Cause You’re makin’ me holy
You’re still makin’ me holy
I’m gonna get it right this time
I’ll be strong and I’ll make You proud
I’ve prayed that prayer a thousand times
But the rooster crows and my tears roll down (again)
Then You remind me You made me from the dust
And I can never, no never, be good enough
And that You’re not gonna let that come between us
I get so clumsy
I get so foolish
I get so stupid
And then I feel so useless
But You’re sayin’ You love me
And You’re still gonna hold me
And that You wanna be near me
‘Cause You’re makin’ me holy
You’re still makin’ me holy
From where I stand
Your holiness is up so high I can never reach it
My only hope is to fall on Jesus
I get so clumsy
I get so foolish
I get so stupid
And then I feel so useless
But You’re sayin’ You love me
And You’re still gonna hold me
And that You wanna be near me
‘Cause You’re makin’ me holy
You’re still makin’ me holy
Karen,
:) I probably would be confused had I not lived in Memphis years ago. I know the old Bellevue Baptist Church on Bellevue...did not know what was housed in it now though. I assume it was sold to them. And Mississippi Blvd? Yep...know where that is too. My mom used to talk about those old streets, because her grandmother used to live in that area somewhere, and she used to spend a lot of time with the grandmother. She used to talk about Iowa Blvd, etc. etc. Course we are talking 1920s I guess it would be. Those areas have changed a lot I think. Don't think the White Station are had even been developed at that time. Have a history in Memphis. A great-great-uncle was shot and killed on the courthouse steps there back in those days. He was assistant DA. Believe he was a McDermott. Course you got to understand this was all before I was born. Don't want you to think I am ancient. :)
tn_lizzie: Like your ideas, but know that not every family has a male leader. I for one am a single Mom and I do count on church to show my son how to be a true man of God. Just a thought....
Pray,
My daughter just called. She's in Texas, a tornado has just formed above Fort Hood, where she and her husband live. She is terrified. I'm worried. OC
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