Friday, March 09, 2007

Truth Trumps...

Truth Trumps

528 comments:

1 – 200 of 528   Newer›   Newest»
MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
oc said...

Oh,man! mom 4 beat me to the top!

imaresistor said...

Ahhhhh....my heart just melted down. I am humbled. What can one possibly say after reading that.

oc said...

God bless you, Mrs Rogers. You have and continue to be the picture of poise and grace. May we learn from your example.

oc said...

Nice things to say. Hmmmm... no JMO? Go figure....

Lindon said...

"Then where do I find truth? Is it found within me who am a sinner like everyone else? No, truth is only found in Jesus, because God's Word says that He is the Truth. "If I want to be fit for myself to know," I must depend on Jesus, this One Who is the One Who can show me the way and lead me through the "fog."

What truth do we have if we ignore scriptural precepts and commands when they are inconvenient?

There is no need for secrecy in the Body when scripture is the standard for truth.

What a blessing it was to read this: For without truth there is no grace or forgiveness.

Amen.

padroc said...

It is really 12:03PM

Lord, may each of us be willing to be: divided by truth, hated for telling the truth, ok with standing alone with the truth, and able to speak the truth in love so that if it hurts the end result will be healing so that we will ultimately succeed with the truth.

All for the glory of God our Father.

Amen

imaresistor said...

And take a stand for Truth at all costs...

sickofthelies said...

As I sit here, I wonder if the SG supporters think that truth is on their side. In view of my 11 point list that I posted recently, do they really think that THEY have truth?

It would be so much easier just to follow the crowd, to go along for the sake of ' getting along', even though none of it makes any sense.

I beleive that many many people have chosen to follow SG just becuase they THINK that it is the popular thing to do because they see someone they admire doing it.
They fail to think for themselves.
This is not truth.

It's not easy standing for truth. Sometimes we stand alone.

Mark Sharpe and Richard Emmerson stood alone. They stood for truth when barely anyone else understood.
THAT is the kind of truth that I would pray that I would be able to stand for, and that my son and daughter would stand for. Steve Gaines should desire to have as much of the integrity in his entire body that Mark and Richard have in their one fingernail.

But I cannot force myself to follow a man, in a blind faith, who CONTINUALLY goes against scripture.

Being popular with those who do not care about the integrity of God's Holy Word is not something I desire. So when someone tells me that they " don't like me"..it seems so trivial and silly.

Wrong is STILL wrong when EVERYONE is doing it and right is STILL right when NO ONE is doing it.

I don't care if it IS an iddy biddy fence.

oc said...

SOTL said...
It would be so much easier just to follow the crowd, to go along for the sake of ' getting along', even though none of it makes any sense.

reply: Yeah, but that was the idea at Calvary. You know what's right. That's why we love you! Even if it is iddy biddy!

sickofthelies said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
oc said...

SOTL,

YOU ROCK!!!

gmommylv said...

Random question.....how do the current commercials advertising BBC show God's grace. I am no PHD but it appears that these are much like what is going on at BBC.... man centered and not God centered. The commercials don't point me to the Lord or give me even a basic idea of God's grace. They should attract the people that want the feel good message and can be caught up in the watered down,twisted NEW message of BBC.

Amazed said...

I am curious... what is the date of the writing of Mrs. Rogers? She speaks of her husband in the present tense, I am curious if this is before his death. The message is the same but I think that the timing is crucial.

oc said...

gmommy,

Yeah, this is what the masses want. An easy believing, part time, recreational Jesus. No blood, no pain, no suffering, no accountability.

imaresistor said...

And...sin without guilt.

oc said...

ima,

Oh yes. Thankyou.

solomon said...

To whom it may concern:

"Don't beat the sheep."

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JU said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JU said...

Mom4,

I think of all the things they've done Steve Gaines and team should be on their knees over the way Mrs. Rogers has been treated. Good post!

DON said...

The Holy Spirit of GOD inspired men to pen the Scriptures.

( All Scripture is given by Inspiration of GOD )

Mrs. Rogers is soooooo right in her article.

Gods' inspired WORD also declares that TRUTH ...trumps all...ALL !!!!in that...in Thessalonians, Gods' WORD declares that those who did not recieve a LOVE OF THE TRUTH .."..(SO AS TO BE SAVED), would be sent a strong delusion, of the highest that they might beleive THE LIE,

Hmmm...

"RECEIVE A (LOVE OF THE TRUTH") ?

So a "LOVE OF THE TRUTH" IS A GIFT FROM GOD ABOVE ? AND WE WHO ARE SAVED .... RECEIVE IT ?

HMMM..

THEREFORE.... A RELIANCE ON ANYTHING LESS THAN TRUTH WOULD BE SPIRITUAL ADULTERY AND TREASON????

YES..

The Broad and Unified path of ecumenical deceit and sensual and wordly compromise with the alleged felt needs and pragmatic and occult methods of global management and its' religious harlot counterpart " The purpose Driven paradigm" is spiritual adultery of the highest form in the nostrils of ALMIGHTY GOD.

Gods' Holy Spirit never authorized a end time planned lessening of TRUTH , in order to attract sinners.

GOD provided a TRUTH that is a stumbling Block that offends sinful men...and that is the door to righteousness for those whom GOD called to receive a LOVE OF THE TRUTH rom before time began.


It was God who made the gospel and the message of it an OFFENSE to those who are perishing...
BY DESIGN OF GOD !!!!!

and when sinful , ARROGANT AND FOOLISH men "reject that TRUTH" ..in favor of a satanic DESIGN and man pleasing counterfeit...The Visible Church will heave with convulsions, as the Holy Spirit OF TRUTH is by implication told..GET OUT ! YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE ANY LONGER , WE NOW HAVE A REPLACEMENT MODFEL TO ACHEIVE BETTER RESULTS THAN JEHOVAH GOD , A BETTER IDEA.

Blaspemy !!!!!!!

Lies, Lies, Lies, Lies,,,

God Bless Mrs. Rogers...

Her valiance has encouraged this weary soldier yet again....and I know that reading that piece was by GODS HAND this morning.

NEVER , EVER, EVER, COMPROMISE TRUTH ...ON THE SATANIC ALTAR OF UNITY.

THAT IS HOW GOD HAS SEALED HIS OWN REMANT FLOCK..

THEY LOVE TRUTH


ALSO,,,THAT IS how THE WORD OF GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT HELPS US TO IDENTIFY THE WANNABEES.

They despise or cover up or conceal GODS TRUTH ...for their own "PURPOSE" . ( PDC )


Remain Steadfast.
Be Alert.
Keep The Faith
LOVE TRUTH
Never compromise with anything less than TRUTH.

Maranatha


If it walks like a purpose driven duck...it is a duck

If it disparages faithful music ministers who love sound doctrine above enticing sensual worldy music, then it is a duck.

If it covers and conceals sin, while attacking and mocking those who reveal sin , it is a duck.

If it professes truth AND integrity , while funding those with false doctrine, it is a duck.

If it treats faithful deacons and Gods children like dirt, while covering over those with heinous sin on staff, ..it is a duck.

If it says it loves Truth, yet hides TRUTH from its' own members, despite GODS call that all be done in the light, and according Bellevue constitution, and Tenessee State law, it is a duck.

If it says it is not a Purpose Driven Church, but is a Church that Rick Warren and all of his deceived zombies could and would support and
congratulate, it is a duck.

If it says it is not a Purpose Driven Church, but does absolutely nothing to preach and teach against the unholy and man centerred purpose driven program and its Church divisive lies , it is a duck.

If it is smug and comfortable in lies, yet kicks, howls, and screams about THE TRUTH..it is a duck.

Quack Quack Quack

DON said...

"Better to be divided by TRUTH, than to be united in error."

I am making a mantle-oiece with that one...

Good lesson for all time and eternity.

DON said...

" mantle piece "

sorry for the typo

imaresistor said...

Yes Don...me too!

DON said...

As Mrs. Joyce Rogers so wonderfully proclaimed:

1. "It is better to be divided by truth than united in error."

2. "It's better to be hated for telling the truth than loved for telling a lie."

3. "It's better to know the truth and to stand alone than it is to be wrong with a multitude."

4. "It's better to speak truth that hurts and then helps than falsehood that comforts and then kills."

5. "It's better to ultimately succeed with the truth than to temporarily succeed with a lie."

Yes, peace and unity are very high in my hierarchy of values. But in my value system, "Truth trumps peace and unity." You see, in the long run, there will be no lasting peace and unity without truth."

Amen

sickofthelies said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
sickofthelies said...

mom4

just askin ;)

WatchingHISstory said...

JMO

You said, "The more dynamics within an organization the more dynamic an individual it takes to bring them together."
Are you refering to the antichrist, Dr. Rogers or Christ?

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
WatchingHISstory said...

JMO

I had better not sit and wait for your answer lest someone answers wrongly. When you were sitting under Dr. Rogers' ministry, you probally thought you heard him say, "I will build my Church". Actually he was quoting Christ!

Just My Opinion said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
WatchingHISstory said...

JMO

I honestly ask you to forgive me if I in anyway attacked you personally. This is a free forum of opinions and like elbows I have two.
Your statement: "I will not answer dishonest people on this blog" is an Argumentum ad Hominem (appeal to personal ridicule) For example: "Don't stoop to debate with this man, for he is an ignorant savage."
Respond to my thesis on its merits. Don't judge me so quickly, we both might have two pieces to the same puzzle.

Just My Opinion said...

mom4, I agree totally with what she wrote. I don't care to speculate as to the timing or anything other than her words. But as we know the absence of truth or misrepresentation of the truth can only lead to negative consequences in the long run.

sickofthelies said...

Just wonderin which JMO wrote this:

But as we know the absence of truth or misrepresentation of the truth can only lead to negative consequences in the long run.

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sickofthelies said...

mom4 says:

It is no telling, there are many and that is telling me that they are more interested in playing mind games than the truth.

sotl asks:

Do you think they are doing it in the name of Jesus? Because if so, I do not know that Jesus.

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
junk99mail said...

JMO,
Looks like someone stole your Ph.D. disseration title for their MBA dissertation...

http://www.uwe.ac.uk/bbs/
post/courses/mba3.shtml

Just My Opinion said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Just My Opinion said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DON said...

Thus says the Lord:

"Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, let not the mighty man glory in his might, nor let the rich man glory in his riches; but let him who glories glory in this, that he understands and knows Me...." --Jeremiah 9:23-24

sickofthelies said...

mom4,

March 25, 2007. What a shameful, shameful day that will be for a church that God had once so richly blessed.

Now all that's left are lies, twisted scripture, ignoring of scripture, and concern that "they" be in with the " in" crowd by blindly following a man who would take them down this path.

Lord, please keep me strong to stand alone if necessary. Please keep me strong to speak truth. Please keep me strong to practice discernment.

Amen.

junk99mail said...

At 3:50 PM, March 11, 2007
Just My Opinion said...
junk99mail, you may not be aware but in many programs the topic is provided by your mentoring professor. It is not uncommon for graduates to have written on the same topic. But since I did mine in the early 80's I am sure that the topic has been covered many times since. It is the body of work and not the topic that would be judged as to it's merit. But I'm sure that you've got time to play got ya...played it many times in my childhood as well.

junk99mail replies...
Did my statement cause some offense? In my exposure to masters and doctoral studies, a masters thesis could be on an assigned topic, but the norm was for the thesis title to be unique, not a copy of someone else's. And a doctoral dissertation was expected to be an original work, contributing something to that field of research that had not previously been done. But perhaps it is different for other fields of study than those I was exposed to.

I'm a bit taken aback by your "got ya" remark. I did a search on your topic because it was of interest to me, as knowledge management was a topic at work just this past week. And I pointed out the duplication of your topic because, based on my admittedly limited exposure in which using someone else's exact title is not acceptable, I would have thought you'd want to address someone's plagiarism of your work. But now I have learned two things: (1) a dissertation title can be reused in some academic circles and (2) you can be nasty to someone who has said or done nothing to you intended to provoke such a response, based purely on your own attribution of negative motive. I did not appreciate your condescension.

WatchingHISstory said...

Does Truth triumph grace? "For without truth there is no grace or forgiveness."

Jacob Arminius' fourth point of Armininism (when he was accused of pelagianism) is translated: "It is the Holy Spirit that draws near to the sinner and convicts him of his sin. However the power and work of the Holy Spirit can be thwarted and resisted and frustrated if the sinner does not wish to relinquish his sin. The Holy Spirit's capability to save from sin is entirely at the behest of the sinner's desire to turn to Him or reject Him."
At the council of Dort (1618-19) men smarter, wiser and humbler than me meeting in 154 formal sessions ruled that this statement is heretical. Their decision was that grace is irresistible. The Holy Spirit can overcome all resistance and make his influence irresistable. This is the truth that triumphs over the grace that is preached in American fundamentalism, including Bellev ue.

WatchingHISstory said...

JMO

I didn't intend to respond any more to you inorder to let you have the last word, however I can't leave it so without any personal attack I can not in my mind differentiate between the body of Christ and the earthly organizational church (my weakness)
As Christ is head of the church it can never get too large but organizationally speaking Bellevue is bigger than any man can direct and this mess is proof. The church is not a capitalistic enterprise but its end product is transformed lives.

Koragg said...

On a lighter note and off topic....Memphis is a #2 Seed in the NCAA Tournament :)

concernedSBCer said...

Go Tigers!

Lindon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lindon said...

"I hope that you understood that my reference to the church was not specifically to Christ's church but to the local organization. "

Is there a difference? One does not need 'dynamic leaders' when Christ is the head of the Body.

We have become so man centered we can no longer see truth nor need to depend soley on God. We think we need to 'help Him'.

Based on my reading of his writings and his sermons, I would be more apt to say that Dr. R submitted to Christ and therein lies the difference..or the 'dynamics' as said.

Piglet said...

Dear Mrs. Rogers -

Thank you for such wise and beautiful words.

I am so thankful for the privilege I have had to sit under Dr. Rogers for 25 years and be blessed by your lives!

I NEVER took it for granted. I always knew that God had given your husband a precious gift to communicate the truth of God's word in ways that were simple to understand and easy to remember. His face shined with the love of Jesus.

Dr. Rogers was my spiritual father because he "grew me up" in the Lord. What an example, for my boys, of true integrity and godliness!!

And what an example YOU are to the women ofour church!!We love you and your family so much. Thank you for continuing to be a blessing to us.

Derrick Calcote said...

Mrs. Rogers has well stated the importance of truth.

That is why I have been and continue to be an advocate for truth.

It grieves me to see frequent examples on this blog, Mr. Haywood's website, and on IDC's website of untruth masquerading as truth.

I grow wearing of pointing it out as those who are spreading these untruths, and those who share a similar viewpoint, are not willing to receive the admonition to refrain from engaging in gossip and slander.

It further grieves me as I presume that the vast majority of those who reject these admonitions are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

My prayer is that we will all walk in the truth; we will all fix our eyes on the Lord Jesus; we will all learn to love each other in such a way that people would know that we are His disciples.

In His service and yours,

Derrick Calcote
dcalcote@msn.com

concernedSBCer said...

How can something admitted to by leadership be called "gossip and slander"? Just what has been admitted to by the leadership and can be proven with video and/or audio is enough to deem the current leadership unfit according to Timothy.

Derrick Calcote said...

Respectfully I disagree with your assessment regarding the leadership of the church.

And I again call on everyone, including members of this blog, to refrain from gossip and slander personally and to reject it from others.

A wise person once told me, that one should not count it a compliment that someone would choose your ears as a recepticle for garbage.

A good thing to remember next time someone tries to tell you gossip.

Tim said...

Derrick,

The opposite side of the coin of truth that you seek is trust. Unfortunately, they are not exclusive of one another. If you want to gain trust it starts with truth.

Regretfully, I am not so sure that you have searched the truth but rather relied upon those who are underserving of trust to speak truth. You should be careful in these days as to where your trust lies.

socwork said...

I know enough facts that gossip and slander do not matter. In other words, ok, I'll not grab ahold of any gossip or slander I hear, but what I know factually to be true is enough for me to know there is a serious problem in the leadership of BBC, specifically, the pastor.

sickofthelies said...

Dereck, Are these things gossip, lies and slander????:

1) SG locked the pastor emeritus out of his office that he had occupied for 32 years
2) SG claimed that his best friend and mentor was the pastor emeritus and then only went to see him in the hospital one time.

3) SG had a dream and sent out a goon squad to shut the amen guy up.
Before you are quick to call this a lie, remember that Mark D. repeated the dream story and then later recanted it, and then later, said, " well, if you say I said it, i must have said it"

4) Did SG break the law and tresspassover an ' itty bitty fence' and then minimized his crime and had his " sheep" laughing with him about his crime?

5) Did SG go to Union City and slammed his own sheep?

6) Did SG mistreat Jim Whitmire, a man who had given years and years of service to BBC?

7) Did SG befriend a pedophile and " felt compassion" for him where he was perfectly willing to subject the innocent children in our church to the pervert. Did he put 117 ( the average # of children molested by a pedophile) at rick while allowing a pedophile to roam freely?

8) Did SG allow PW to go back to his job for 6 months, where he was allowed to sit in judgement as to whether or not a woman who had been sexually abused would be fit to VOLUNTEER at BBC?

.
9) Did SG make the statement that since there was no policy in place ( a lie) that he had no idea what to do with a pedophile on staff.
( The Bible is perfectly clear as to how to handle a pastor who is unfit for service)

10) Has SG brought untold embarassment to a once-great church in having the television crews showing up?

11) Was there a need for a HS report regarding SG's handling of a pedophile that was all over the newspapers and television?

12) Were there communication committee meetings that were a shame? Were they shut down when the crowd grew too large? Were the answers, " i don't know" " i'll get back to you"...and then , did harry smith appear on the stage and tell the congregation that there was no more need for a CC because all questions had been answered?

11) Was a check for $25,000 given to a church that openly promotes homosexuality and abortion?

Please, Derick, help me to understand this " truth" you speak of; this truth you follow.

junk99mail said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sickofthelies said...

one more truth, er whopper

Did SG state that he had no idea what PW's job duties were on the infamous report?

Did the report state that SG was more interested in keeping his job than protecting the members of BBC?

sickofthelies said...

Deacon Derreck,

Are THESE the truths you follow? Are THESE the truths that you would encourage US to follow?

Sorry, Derreck the Deacon, I think, therefore, I cannot follow your version of " truth"

Koragg said...

Derrick:

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, Gossip is defined as:

1. Rumor or talk of a personal,
sensational, or intimate nature.
2. A person who habitually spreads
intimate or private rumors or
facts.
3. Trivial, chatty talk or writing.
4. A close friend or companion.
5. Chiefly British A godparent.

Slander is defined as:

1. Law Oral communication of false
statements injurious to a
person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement
or report about someone.

According those definitions stated above, what has been discussed here is NOT Gossip or Slander. A dictionary comes quite in handy :).

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
concernedSBCer said...

Derrick, Trust and Truth go hand in hand. As my sweet and wise Daddy used to say, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Lying erases trust. This is not about forgiveness. I can forgive 70 X 70. But trust, well, that's another matter entirely.

(I am certain we have already been over this ground quite thoroughly before. Forgiveness does not erase consequences and saying "I'm sorry" does not immediately rebuild trust. Rebuilding trust is a long process proving repentance and a turning away from the problem. The leadership has made some very poor decisions resulting in a loss of trust. Whether that can be rebuilt remains to be seen.)

Derrick Calcote said...

SOTL,

Sister, honestly your tone has greatly disturbed me having read many of your posts. An example of what I'm talking about is your use of terms like "Goon squad." This makes it very difficult for me to communicate with you in an effective manner.

Let me say though as the father of two young children, in no way to I feel my children have been at risk any time from any staff member or voulenteer when under Bellevue's care.

Having worked in the preschool area it is obvious that it is and has been a very safe place.

Derrick Calcote said...

Korag,

There has been quite a bit of gossip:

1. Rumor or talk of a personal,
sensational, or intimate nature.

and

Slander:

2. A false and malicious statement
or report about someone.

If you can't see it, the reason may be that you don't want to see it.

Piglet said...

Derrick,

Your statement about your children never being at risk makes you less credible.

A pedophile was on staff at Bellevue. Can you say that they were NEVER in the men's bathroom alone
with this man(or anywhere, for that matter)? You can't know that. My boys could have been around this man on numerous occasions.

Saying you don't believe they were at risk sounds to me like wishful thinking. Is your trust in this leadership wishful thinking as well, I wonder?

(If you have girls, then discount the men's bathroom remark.)

charlie fox said...

My our GOD above continue to BLESS Miss Joyce.

concernedSBCer said...

Charlie! Good to see you! :)

We've missed you!

charlie fox said...

Thank You, Concerned.

Derrick Calcote said...

Piglet,

In no way do I feel my kids were ever at risk. I have and have had total confidence in the way things are handled in the chidren's department.

I have seen first hand the care and dilligance of the both the workers and voulenteers in that area.

Koragg said...

Derrick Calcote said....

Korag,

There has been quite a bit of gossip:

1. Rumor or talk of a personal,
sensational, or intimate nature.

and

Slander:

2. A false and malicious statement
or report about someone.

If you can't see it, the reason may be that you don't want to see it.


Derrick,

This situation does not qualify under the definition of gossip because most of the stuff that is mentioned here is true, and in the case of Karen's question the other day that you jumped her about, was asking if it was true or not. THAT my friend is NOT gossip.

As far as slander...the key word in the definition is the word false. In order for it to be slander, it has to be false. I do not see where Gaines harboring pedophiles is false when it did happen as the internal report did indicate (The Bellevue Moonbats Group can call it something different, but thats what it boils down to). The fact of the matter is, leadership at Bellevue has not acted with honor and integrity. If they had addressed the issues and concerns of the congreation when they first come up last year instead of waiting till the heat on them became scorching hot, we would not be debating this today.

charlie fox said...

OK, back on my soapbox. Boys and Girls, it is a total waste of time to haggle back and forth with the likes of JMO, Derrick Calcote, etc. The sad truth is people like them can't see "the trees for the forest" and probably never will. No, I didn't quote it backward.

oc said...

derrick said,


"I have seen first hand the care and dilligance of the both the workers and voulenteers in that area."

piglet wasn't talking about neglect, but the possibility or opportunity of something else.

Derrick Calcote said...

Koragg,

In you post about there being no slander, you slander with terms like "moonbats."

It would be funny if it were not so sad.

Tim said...

Derrick,

As it pertains to truth;

Recently two men were elected to the board of directors of Bellevue Baptist Church. Perhaps you know who elected these men.

WatchingHISstory said...

I have a dog in this fight, two dogs, actually.

Why am I lurking on this blog obsessively? Why am I interested in what is going on at Bellevue?
I too am a former pastor. I served for 13 years in a civilian ministry to the American military in Turkey, Italy and Germany. I moved to the Memphis area in 1981 and about 17 years ago I assumed an interim pastorate position. After only a month I discovered that the church clerk had been embezzling. ($40,000) This was a small church and was devastating.
I believed that this discovery was not just a coincidental event but was an act of God. I sensed an urgency to seek the Lord about this and before long There was a new discovery about sexual immorality. One woman had been having affairs with several of the men. I led the church in dealing with these situations. To my dismay the district pastor knew about this and had tried to cover it up. Sound familiar? We brought it to the open. Needless to say, I'm sure that we did not do everything appropriately. But what I did know was that the Holy Spirit was in the arrangements.
We established and restored intregity. We caught up financially with church finances.
These type problems are dealt with by spiritual measures. Bellevue is way out of my league and I'm sure that my comparisons are apples and oranges. But I am dismayed that this nasty situation could go on for so long at Bellevue and no one know about it. Or thoes who knew about it covered it up. I am not exalting myself, rather I exalt God, I had been at that church only a month. God tells men who care! Oh, Holy Spirit we need you!

Piglet said...

Derrick

My boys came up in the same nursery, preschool, and children's department. I was not disparaging the faithful souls that work in these areas.

However, over the years I have entered a restroom and found myself alone and I believe it is reasonable to assume my sons have frequented the restroom by themselves on occasion -I don't think the children's dept. sends an escort.

Besides the restroon, Bellevue is a big place and when kids show up for music lessons, performance practices, etc., they often follow empty halls to their destination. It only makes sense that they are not always "supervised" every minute.

I don't blame the preschool or children's ministry for thier being at risk. Make no mistake, I blame those who knew of PW's past and ultimately SG who had the final say and should have known better.

I just think it very telling that you are in denial about something so obvious. I think your state of denial applies to other things we have discussed here.

Piglet said...

concerned sbcer said

Charlie! Good to see you! :)

Piglet says:

Can you SEE Charlie? What kind of software do you have?!!

Just kidding. :0)

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet, No, I can't see Charlie.
:(

I'm only "stuffed with fluff" ;)

But I am glad he's back!

charlie fox said...

Piglet,

You can't see me? BUMMER!!!!!

charlie fox said...

So much for combing my hair.

oc said...

Nice tie, Charlie!

Derrick Calcote said...

Tim,

I don't know how the process of adding members to the board works. I could guess based on other boards that I've served on (not in the church, but elsewhere) but that would just be pure speculation.

charlie fox said...

Am I overdressed??????

charlie fox said...

Derrick Calcote said...
Tim,

I don't know how the process of adding members to the board works. I could guess based on other boards that I've served on (not in the church, but elsewhere) but that would just be pure speculation.

REPLY:
In a CONGREGATIONAL church, the CONGREGATION elects them.

oc said...

Charlie,

No, you're not overdressed. But maybe you shouldn't wear that red tie along with that green tank top. (just a suggestion).

charlie fox said...

Busted by the FASHION POLICE!!!! DOUBLE BUMMER!!!!!!!

Derrick Calcote said...

Mr. Fox,

That may well be true. I've been a member of Bellevue for over twenty years, and during that time

I have never seen or heard anything that made me think that Bellevue was a congregation lead church. Nor do I think it should be, nor do I think it is a biblical model.

Tim said...

Charlie,

The by-laws of the church (as brief as they are) indicate that they are to be elected by the church. However, there was not a church business meeting during the period of time that these men were elected.

Piglet said...

Derrick

In Dr. Rogers'words:

Pastor lead, deacon served,and congregationally approved.

charlie fox said...

Tim said...
Charlie,

The by-laws of the church (as brief as they are) indicate that they are to be elected by the church. However, there was not a church business meeting during the period of time that these men were elected.

Reply:

Tim,
That was my point.

Piglet said...

Derrick

Since this pastor is LEADING us away from Christ by setting an ungodly example, would you please SERVE us as deacon by replacing him with someone more worthy, please, because we do not APPROVE?

I know, I . But you don't get what you don't ask for. :(

Piglet said...

That post should have ended:

I know,I know. But you don't get what you don't ask for. :/

charlie fox said...

Mr. Calcote,

Not congregationaly LEAD, but congregationaly APPROVED.

Derrick Calcote said...

Piglet,

Exactly.

And that is the way the church continues to operate.

Tim said...

Would it surprise anyone to know the elections were made by less than 10 men?

Without any approval or knowledge of the congregation and apparantly most deacons were unaware as well.

Is this how the church is supposed to operate? With a select few determining what they believe is best for everyone?

Memphis said...

Tim, I have only been at BBC for about 5 years, but how was the process handled prior to that?

Piglet said...

What Tim said.

And I don't remember approving these guys....(scratching head)

charlie fox said...

Piglet said...
Derrick

In Dr. Rogers'words:

Pastor lead, deacon served,and congregationally approved.


Derrick Calcote said...
Piglet,

Exactly.

And that is the way the church continues to operate.

Charlie Fox said...

OH REALLY????????
Did the congregation APPROVE the new BOD members?

Derrick Calcote said...

Piglet,

While it is obvious that there is a certain contingent of which you are a member, who do not approve, the facts of the matter are that the vast majority of the congregation does approve.

And while I was not on the pastor search committee, and frankly my initial inclination would not have been to choose pastor Gaines if I had been, I remain convinced that he is God's man for Bellevue.

In no way would I act to remove him, and if he would even hint at stepping down I would humbly and prayerfully ask him to reconsider.

While like the rest of us, he is not perfect, I see in him a man with a deep love for our Lord, a desire to reach the lost for Him, and a desire to draw others into a closer walk with Him.

oc said...

tim said,

Is this how the church is supposed to operate? With a select few determining what they believe is best for everyone?


reply: I guess this would be OK if it could be determined that each congregant had less of the Holy Spirit than each of the leaders had. Interesting, huh?

concernedSBCer said...

Derrick said, "While it is obvious that there is a certain contingent of which you are a member, who do not approve, the facts of the matter are that the vast majority of the congregation does approve."

How would you know if there was not a business meeting and a vote??? You might be basing your opinion on gossip or hersay since an official vote was not taken.

Derrick Calcote said...

Were previous members of the board put before the congregation for a vote?

The only thing of major import that I recall us ever voting on is the budget. We will be doing that soon, and if I may be so bold as to point out, there is much more detail being given today than has been in years past, and many more opportunities for input before the vote than in years past.

In the past it was a 8 minute rundown at the end of a Sunday night service, with no opportunities to ask about things before hand, then a perfunctory vote.

charlie fox said...

Would someone define "moonbat" for me. I want to apply the SLANDER litmus test to this word.

Piglet said...

I knew this would be your response.

However, he has repeatedly brought shame on this church by his words and actions.

He reportedly has a real affection for the almighty dollar that our beloved Dr. Rogers NEVER had.

He has proven himself incapable of making important decisions. Even his supporters have said that David Coombs is having to do damage control for this guy.

He has mistreated and run off dearly loved staff and lay leaders.

I think you are deep in denial.

Especially when you say you would ask him to reconsider stepping down.

I firmly believe God brought SG here - to bring things in his life and the lives of our leadership to light.

As a current Gardendale member once posted - Dr. Gaines got away with some shenanigans in Alabama. But now he's at Bellevue where folks READ their Bibles. We know what it'sl ike to be lead by a godly man and we won't let him get away with being less.

charlie fox said...

I rest my case concerning not being able to see the "trees for the forest".

Piglet said...

Derrick

You KNOW the reason members want more of a say than they had under Dr. Rogers. The TRUST is GONE, my friend.

You know this is true. Why act so oblivious as to why we want the bylaws followed TO THE LETTER?

We now have someone, unlike Dr Rogers, who has proven NOT to be trustworthy and who has ABUSED power in the past.

Memphis, are you reading this? Five years ago is irrelevant. Today is a new day.

Koragg said...

Derrick Calcote said...

Mr. Fox,

That may well be true. I've been a member of Bellevue for over twenty years, and during that time

I have never seen or heard anything that made me think that Bellevue was a congregation lead church. Nor do I think it should be, nor do I think it is a biblical model.


Derrick, you might want to read the study guide for Dr. Roger's book "The Incredible Power of Kingdom Authority". In it, it says "The church is pastor-led, the church is to be decon-served, the church is to be committe-operated, and the church is to be congregationally-affirmed.

According to dictionary.com, the definition of affirmed is :

1. To declare positively or firmly;
maintain to be true.
2. To support or uphold the
validity of; confirm.

That tells me that Dr. Rogers himself believed that the church is congregationally approved. If he didn't belive it, why would he have said it in one of his books?

junk99mail said...

From the Baptist Faith & Message (BF&M), which is linked to on the bellevue.org website on a page titled "Beliefs":

--------------------
VI. The Church

A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is an autonomous local congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the two ordinances of Christ, governed by His laws, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes. In such a congregation each member is responsible and accountable to Christ as Lord. Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons. While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.

The New Testament speaks also of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all of the redeemed of all the ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Matthew 16:15-19; 18:15-20; Acts 2:41-42,47; 5:11-14; 6:3-6; 13:1-3; 14:23,27; 15:1-30; 16:5; 20:28; Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 3:16; 5:4-5; 7:17; 9:13-14; 12; Ephesians 1:22-23; 2:19-22; 3:8-11,21; 5:22-32; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:18; 1 Timothy 2:9-14; 3:1-15; 4:14; Hebrews 11:39-40; 1 Peter 5:1-4; Revelation 2-3; 21:2-3.

--------------------

I am not going to argue with anyone the merits of congregational vs. elder vs. bishop church governments ... just pointing out that "democratic" = "congregational", and it is not only the usual Baptist standard, it is also implied to be the church governmental model of Bellevue based on the link to the BF&M on the Bellevue web site.

But now that I've pointed this out, be watching for a modification to the Bellevue site! :)

concernedSBCer said...

Derrick said, "Were previous members of the board put before the congregation for a vote?"

I do not think this matters. The fact is that due to past misdeeds (sins) there is now an absence of trust in the leadership at BBC. Whether it was done or not in the past does not negate the fact that, according to the by-laws we have now, and the well-publicized format of BBC ("Pastor lead, deacon served, and congregationally approved") a vote should have been taken. The times they are a-changin' my friend. Sad, but true.

Tim said...

This is what the Word of God says about truth.

Ephesians 5:8-9
8 For ye were sometime darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light;
9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

James 3:14
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

John 8:12
12 ¶ Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Darkness is caused by the absence of truth.
Truth brings light.
Light cast out darkness.

Why has darkness been cast upon Bellevue? Where is the light of truth? Who has caused this present darkness?

Surely it is known that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places.

Was spiritual wickedness not manifest as a serpent in the garden? Spiritual wickedness is limited only by the spirit of a man and that only when the light of the Holy Spirit is ignored.

socwork said...

You know, I don't recall anyone here having a beef with SG because he is human, or makes mistakes, or is imperfect, or is just a bit clumsy in his leadership.

However, I have seen people, including myself, that have a problem with the fact that he had firsthand knowledge of a pedophile on staff, and not only did not act on that information, but did not even ask anyone for counsel as to what he should do in such a situation.

I have a problem with his "interactions" with people who dare to disagree with or question him.

I have a problem with his blatant agenda to silence certain members when preaching God's Word, rather than honoring God by rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).

I could go on, but to do so would betray a confidence.

concernedSBCer said...

socwork: not gossip or slander but recognized facts, most discussed from the pulpit.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I stumbled across this tonight and thought it interesting.

Memphis said...

Piglet said:
Memphis, are you reading this? Five years ago is irrelevant. Today is a new day.


So now you are the one that decides for me what is important to me right? well I really appreciate your concern for me knowing what I should think is important or not.

One thing I now know, a few of you really hurt your cause or views or whatever you want to call them. I am seriously done with the blog (which I doubt anyone will care since I do support our pastor) and I wold not like to see him step down unless the Lord God Almighty causes him to step down.

Good Luck to you all...I am outta here!

Memphis has left the blog!

oc said...

Junk99,
Thanks, I was looking for that.

Concerned,
I once had a pastor that said,'These are the last words of a dying church,"We always done it that way".

solomon said...

piglet said ... As a current Gardendale member once posted - Dr. Gaines got away with some shenanigans in Alabama. But now he's at Bellevue where folks READ their Bibles.

Well, I certainly hope the Gardendale folks don't read this blog.

Tim said...

For further clarification


"moral failure"="uncharted waters"=darkness

socwork said...

concernedsbcer: exactly!

concernedSBCer said...

oc: It's very discouraging that we feel our spiritual leaders must be held accountable for every move, but it is just the way things are right now. Piglet made a statement earlier that before the one in leadership was above reproach. Things aren't that way anymore and adjustments must be made for that change.

Piglet said...

Interesting good-bye from Memphis.

Guess accountability from the leadership is too radical an idea.

Oh, well.

Koragg said...

NASS, that is an interesting article. And its true. A co-worker of mine's husband used to pastor a small church in another state for a while. He had to quit because he was experiencing major health problems from the stress of being a pastor.

oc said...

Ok,Socwork and Concerned, now that I got you both together, where is my car?

concernedSBCer said...

uhhhh...gotta go now...see ya!

Memphis said...

not the leadership that frustrates, but the attitudes some have.

gone, and email me if you want to discuss. If not have a good one.

concernedSBCer said...

just kidding.......check with socwork.....

socwork said...

uhh... (offline)

oc said...

Concerned,

By the way, I agree with your 10:58 post. Things need to change, which was the point of my 10:53 post. Sad.

oc said...

Wait a minute! You guys get back here!

charlie fox said...

If you haven't done so, New BBC Open Forum's 10:49 post is WELL WORTH the read. Thanx NASS. I know just the group to send that article to.

charlie fox said...

oc,

I wanna ride in your new car.

oc said...

Charlie,
I don't have it....Yet! Put some pressure on Socwork and Concerned for me,I believe they have been avoiding me lately. Can't imagine why....

concernedSBCer said...

Great article, NASS. Thanks!

junk99mail said...

NASS,
Thanks for sharing that excellent article on the qualities appropriate to a pastor. Seems so basic, so fundamental ... qualities that ought to be so normal for a pastor ... but unfortunately, too often not the case.

One thing the article's author said I found amusing ... "I’ve been in the ministry for twenty five years and I can probably count on one hand the number of bad sermons I’ve heard." That's great for him, but I wish I could say the same!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

charlie fox wrote:

"Would someone define 'moonbat' for me."

Still looking for a good definition, but here's an itty bitty likeness of one. They say a picture's worth a thousand words.

oc said...

Oh boy! Ain't that cute!!!

oc said...

With that, I'm going to bed. Dreaming of my new car and moonbats! Offline.

Piglet said...

Good night, NASS.

Thanks for the great article and the funny moonbat!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Good night, piglet. Don't let the moonbats bite! That picture's enough to give some of us more faint-hearted sheep nightmares.

junk99mail said...

Barking moonbat
(noun) Someone on the extreme edge of whatever their -ism happens to be.

(coined by Perry de Havilland)

Usage:"Definition of a 'barking moonbat': someone who sacrifices sanity for the sake of consistency"
-Adriana Cronin

New BBC Open Forum said...

Oh... I thought it was a term of endearment. Guess not. Y'all be nice, now.

imaresistor said...

nbbcof...

Well, don't know about the moonbat, but it looks like a bad case of tonsillitis to me! Is that you Charlie?

Ima

sickofthelies said...

Dereck said:

Let me say though as the father of two young children, in no way to I feel my children have been at risk any time from any staff member or voulenteer when under Bellevue's care.

Having worked in the preschool area it is obvious that it is and has been a very safe place.

Sotl's reply:

Honestly, Dereck, What kind of answer is THIS? PRE SCHOOL? Are those the ONLY children that you think COULD HAVE BEEN at risk????

Of course preschoolers are under constant supervision by their teachers.

Your ignorance is astounding to me.

What about jr. high school students? It's the age group from around 11 to 15 or 16 that one would have to worry. They would be free to go to the bathrooms alone, or to be walking down the halls by themselves.

You TRULY TRULY do not understand the risk..Please, for your own sake and the sake of your children( when they get older) do some research.

My second point is this:

I notice that you do not commment on all the other points that I posted. Can you not refute them?

I thought we were engaging in lies and slander, yet you do not commment on the things that this pastor has heaped upon his sheep...Actions that have been proven to be true. I guess those dont' count?

WatchingHISstory said...

Steve Gaines said, "As we entered the 90's, the church, rather than getting out of bed, put a "Do Not Disturb" sign on the door."

That may explain why a president could have sex with an intern in the white house and soon be exposed and investigated, while at the same time a pedophile was walking the halls of Bellevue for 17 years. Maybe there is some weak theology here.

ydoesit matter said...

Sign if you think they should go



We can begin to heal if they all go. They need to step aside so trust can be restored.



Sign if you think they should go

WatchingHISstory said...

AOG

I posted another message on your website under the Dispensationalism, Is it right? question.

WatchingHISstory said...

correction, Dispensationalism, Is it Biblical?

MOM4 said...

Perhaps the church should send all of the "Pastors" to the Adrian Rogers Pastor Training Institute Conferences this year. Looks like the topics are very applicable to our pastors:

Single Day Schedule
Registration – Book Table Open
Welcome, Introductions & Prayer
Praise & Worship Music
Session I The Pastor’s Job Description
Session II The Pastor’s Personal Integrity
Break Book Table Open
Session III The Sermon’s Exposition
Lunch Instructions and Prayer
Lunch Book Table Open
Praise & Worship Music
Session IV The Sermon’s Preparation
Break Book Table Open
Session V The Sermon’s Illustration
Sample Q&A DVD of Dr. Rogers
Session VI The Pastor’s Personal Leadership
Request Evaluations, Closing & Prayer

imaresistor said...

Morning bloggers...

I am here this morninig to solicit your help. Is there a Baptist Book Store in the area that is free of the purpose driven, new age, emergent, contemplative stuff? I have a friend coming through this morning who wants to buy some literature free of this garbage. Anybody know?

Ima

DON said...

IMA

The sad truth is that new age has infiltrated almost all of the major institutions of America, is in the seminaries, the SBC, and is in most , if not 100 % of the bookstores.

Other than that, nothin much goin on.

New BBC Open Forum said...

ima,

That might be about as easy as finding a grocery store that doesn't sell beer and wine. We all gotta eat, you know.

DON said...

If you want to see what many pastors and "emergent " young people are " tapping into "...in tha name of VISION and COMMUNITY

check out this video on youtube

Time is so short...

The Great Delusion sent by GOD is sweeping the hinterland..

DON said...

oops...the url is below for that video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WAYrsMsnwg

DON said...

NBBCOF

sorry for missing the topic change..
Mrs Rogers is a fellow soldier of The Cross and The WORD, as evidenced by her call for TRUTH above all other noble, yet non-essential values for a Beleiver..

There is NO peace or unity without TRUTH

Only Babel

sickofthelies said...

Dereck,

This morning, The Lord convicted me that I owed you an apology for referring to you as " Derreck the Deacon"..

It was uncalled for, not helpful, and just downright unkind.

I apologize.

New BBC Open Forum said...

EVERYONE, PLEASE CHECK OUT THE REVISED TOPIC HEADING.

NBBCOF

imaresistor said...

Thanks Don and NBBCOF...I was afraid that would be the answer I would get. I made a couple of calls to some area
'christian book stores' as well...same answer. When you break it down, it's all about the dollar. Shameful.

maybejustmaybe said...

A few years ago, my husband fell and shattered his elbow, necessitating orthopedic surgery to put the pieces back together. I was so anxious, and I was alone in the hospital outpatient surgery waiting room, as there was no one available to sit with me that day. Dr. Rogers was in the hospital at that time with one of his episodes of trouble with what would prove to be colon cancer -- and I ran into Mrs. Joyce on my way to the cafeteria to grab a bite. Since I often sit near her in the choir, I stopped and said hello and let her know I was praying for her and the Pastor ... and she, of course, asked me why I was there. I shared with her quickly and went on my way.

About 15 minutes after I returned to the waiting room after eating, I looked up and saw Mrs. Joyce coming in the waiting room. She asked if I had seen Mrs. Sorrell, who apparently was there waiting with another patient -- and I had not, so she left.

But imagine my surprise when she returned about 30 minutes later -- and this time, she specifically came to see me. We talked about a lot of things over about 45 minutes, and she allowed me to un-burden myself over some family issues I was dealing with in addition to the stress of my husband's injury -- then she prayed with me.

I have been touched by that one demonstration of her kindness ever since.

I often wake up in the middle of the night, and when I do, I always pray for Mrs. Joyce. I don't know why, but I've felt led to do that ever since Dr. Rogers passed away.

Love and prayers, Mrs. Rogers. What a blessing you are.

imaresistor said...

Just a little not about Joyce Rogers...

I, as you know, am not a member of Bellevue. Over they years however, I have attended Bellevue, as have countless others, via television. Dr. Rogers had such a magnificent 'delivery'. Next to hearing him talk to us about Our Most Gracious Heavenly Father...I liked hearing him talk about Joyce, the thing he loved most outside the spiritual realm. :) I tell you what...the way he made the word 'Joyce' sound was remarkable within itself! I don't think I have ever heard so much emotion delivered with the utterance of a mere word in my life. He displayed so much love and warmth in even speaking the word,'Joyce'. His entire face lit up when he said her name...it became radiant. Sometimes he would smile, chuckle or tilt his head just so as he would tell something about her...or them. These two were bonded in a love that most people will only dream about. I have thought so many times over the course of these past months about these two people. And I have thought how disheartening it must be to Mrs. Rogers to see all that is happening in the heart of the church that her husband dedicated his life to. Even so, there is no doubt in my mind that this lady has a strength that most of us would not even understand and would envy if we did. I have always heard it said that behind every successful man, there is an incredible woman. I am sure Dr. Rogers would admit to that today if he could. So...I salute this lady and I respect her. I admire her dignity and integrity. And as I close this post I can just hear Dr. Rogers saying the word, 'Joyce' as only he could. How precious are our memories...how precious is this lady. How precious is our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Thank you, Mrs. Rogers for having shared your words with us.

Blessings...

WatchingHISstory said...

I know that you are tired of reading my post but I am consumed with the love of the gospel of Christ and angry with sorry preaching theat displeases God.

Here is an example of sorry preaching by a well known SBC pastor. I do not apologize for using the word sorry.
I can't link but if you will search First Baptist Church of Woodstock and search for guest speaker, Dr. Nelson Price, Nov 26, 2006 You will get to listen to some very fine singing and music and a long intro before you get to his five points. Now whether you are reformed or not this is an example of how not to preach an anti-calvinistic message. Please be objective and honest. sub-topic is: "how not to debate"

New BBC Open Forum said...

jmo,

In regards to your e-mail, please read the current topic heading again. No one was drawn into anything, there was no "truth blending," and nothing was done without proper prior approval, so please don't even think about going there.

Also, if your friend saw the original topic heading, it was clearly stated at the top that the article was a reprint from the Adrian Rogers Pastors Training Institute newsletter.

As for your friend's first question, about that prior rumor, I knew that to be untrue and deleted it as soon as I found it. I will repeat once again, if you don't like the way I moderate this forum or the people who post, you are free not to read it.

NBBCOF

Just My Opinion said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
New BBC Open Forum said...

You call what you wrote courteous? Don't worry. I'm not in the habit of posting personal e-mails. However, I wasn't "berating" you, just addressing your questions. I apologize that it came across that way. Post anything you want anywhere else that you please, but you're finished here.

Even if the Founding Fathers could have looked 200+ years into the future, I really don't think they had a personal blog in mind when they wrote the First Amendment. But then, I guess that's just my opinion.

NBBCOF

WatchingHISstory said...

My other dog in this fight . .

I attended a pentecostal-wesleyan college in 1969-72 as a vietnam era vet on the GI bill. I was far from academic and out of place as a student. But the germ of reformed theology came from a very humble professor teaching from the Westminister shorter catechism. The germ was a half-truth of reformed theology but that one sentence statement grew into an internal worldview of the gospel. My wife and I left school and served as a Christian Education Director in a pentecostal, Harlan Co. Ky. coal miner transplants in Fairborn, Ohio. The pastor was a 3rd grade graduate. For a year a young college grad (just a BA in Biblical Education) I worked with a church of 200 and by Easter Sunday we had almost 800 in attendance. However I got a call to go to Europe to work in the denominational military ministry.
I was sent to Turkey and for almost five years I pastored a small struggling congregation of GIs and their families. The turkish authorities just overlooked us and let us have a church. We lasted thru the turk-cypriot war. While in Turkey that germ of reformed theology grew in my heart and with joy in the midst of tribulation I determined to know the gospel Paul knew and what better place than 30 miles from Tarsus and one and a half hour from Antioch. I walked thoes streets and diligently studied Romans and hammered out my understanding of the gospel. My congregation was pentecostal so my preaching was not readily accepted which added to my depth. I have found that being popular leads to shallow theology. God was with us in marvelous ways and it was a wonderful five years. Due to political turmoil we were relocated to southrern Italy. In southern Italy we encountered a charismatic communities which was an even greater oppotunity to futher deepen my theology but not without scars. We eventually located to Germany with a larger congregation. My theology was more 'calvinistically' pronounced and my hearers were increasing in hostility. Actually I was more naive than informed. But my exposure to military chaplains was valuable. There were anglican, methodist, presbyterian, baptist, etc. and that helped a young calvinist-pentecostal's sanity. I eventually moved to Memphis and was an interim pastor in a church that was very hostile to the gospel. The unbelievable burden of sin was so strong in that church. We finally established some integrity, paid off the indebtedness and then was rewarded by the Chattanooga office with a new pastor who just showed up unannounced. Be thankful for congregationally approved leadership. Needless to say my wife and I, tired of the struggle, decided to switch denominations and to our dismay other denominations were not without their struggles. I left the pastoral ministry, discouraged but still having a burning love of the gospel and the understanding of its transforming power and how little of it the average christian understands, having tasted of its goodness myself.
I visited churches for several years and listened to others preach and most preaching was just extensions of their one on one counseling ministry. Not only do members not know the gospel most ministers don't either. When I visited Bellevue and heard the announcements that anti-calvinist messages were going to be preached, I had to hear. I had vast exposure to so many different ministers that I didn't think that a man would actually stand in a pulpit and berate another theology (I expected an anti-pentecostal/charismatic message) but not one that I bore a scarred heart over. These messages are all mischaracterizations of what that theology is indicating that they have not thoroughly research the topic. The very best of men can miss the truth. In some ways the SBC is worse off than the pentecostals when it comes to the purity of the gospel message. Stand a pentecostal and a baptist minister side by side and all things considered equal a pentecostal will be more easily persuaded of the gospel. The baptist will not because he will only compare himself to the pentecostal and jstify himself. I've been there. If my voice is the only voice, I will still boldly speak out.

oc said...

JMO,

Oh...you feel berated, how sad. This is what you have been doing to other bloggers at this site and have gotten away with it for a long time. Now you don't like it. Listen,'phd', you reap what you sow. Now take your ball and run off to Mikey's blog.

solomon said...

Psalm 68:1-6
Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered,
And let those who hate Him flee before Him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
As wax melts before the fire,
So let the wicked perish before God.
But let the righteous be glad; let them exult before God;
Yes, let them rejoice with gladness.
Sing to God, sing praises to His name;
Lift up a song for Him who rides through the deserts,
Whose name is the LORD, and exult before Him.
A father of the fatherless and a judge for the widows,
Is God in His holy habitation.
God makes a home for the lonely;
He leads out the prisoners into prosperity,
Only the rebellious dwell in a parched land.

oc said...

watchinghisstory said

Stand a pentecostal and a baptist minister side by side and all things considered equal a pentecostal will be more easily persuaded of the gospel.


reply: Not all.

oc said...

Jmo,

By the way, I, and others, highly doubt the PhD 'status' you proclaim. Dream on, MBA. And,about your behavior on this blog, can you say 'ARROGANT'?

oc said...

You Know Who deleted his/her post so others couldn't see how pitiful it was. But I know what it said. Great integrity. Can't stand by what he/she said. Figures.

concernedSBCer said...

My uncle is an Assembly of God pastor/missionary. I know they have many pentecostal ways. They are off on many important issues. Is there a difference in the culture of being pentecostal and the "Pentecostal Church"?

oc said...

Hey concerned,
Where's your buddy Socwork? Need my car.

concernedSBCer said...

OC......I'm on your side, man. I think he "wrote checks his bank can't cash!"

oc said...

Concerned,

Yo! BANKRUPT!!!!!!!

WatchingHISstory said...

I was affliated with the Church of God and the AG are very similar. Both are pentecostal and culturally they both really like fried chicken.

oc said...

Concerned,
You know what they say,'alligator mouth, hummingbird....you know.

oc said...

Watching...
Baptists like fried chicken too! Colonel Sanders is one of my favorite preachers!

concernedSBCer said...

Watching: I use the term "culture" as a way to describe worship style and traditions...sorry it was a bit confusing!

Fried chicken...I thought that was a Baptist dish! ;)

(I really was asking that seriously because I didn't know.)

solomon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lindon said...

"Even if the Founding Fathers could have looked 200+ years into the future, I really don't think they had a personal blog in mind when they wrote the First Amendment. But then, I guess that's just my opinion."

What is interesting about this complaining of 'free speech' on blogs is that we are starting to see lawsuits. Instapundit wrote a very detailed paper on the subject (He is a law professor and one of the first really big bloggers)

Reynolds points out in his paper and from several suits that the blogosphere itself is 'free speech'. If JMO or someone does not like being deleted here, they have the freedom to start a blog and counter point you.

The problem is attracting lots of readers. But hey, freedom to blog is freedom to blog. There is no guarantee of a large readership.

The free speech arguement is just plain silly.

oc said...

Lindon,

He/she is free to whine somewhere else.

Lin said...

oc: And others are 'free' to not listen.

There is no freedom to be 'heard'. (or read)

oc said...

lin,
You are absolutely right. There is no right to be read or heard. Therefore, he/she had decided to post on Mikey's blog. Where he/she will not be challenged. As the church lady would say..."how convenient..."

charlie fox said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
charlie fox said...

I might as well weigh in on the "PhD" thing. When dealing with Trust, Truth, Honesty, Integrity, Discernment, etc, a PhD is about as useless as WARTS. I know MANY people without a PhD, MBA and even any College who have a CLEAR understanding of "All of the Above". I know MANY PhDs, MBAs and College grads who don't have a clue. In discussing all the issues on this Blog, a PhD carries NO WEIGHT.

oc said...

Charlie.

even though I may disagree with your wardrobe, I agree with your assessment of whether degrees or pedigrees carry any weight. It is obvious that for some, "your great learning has made you mad." That, of course, includes any who have 'lorded it over others' or those who have flat lied and gave themselves a higher degree than they have earned. Guess who.

Trollcakes said...

Yo Truthseekers,

Muah!

New BBC Open Forum said...

oc,

We don't know that anyone lied about his or her degree. "Lorded it over others" is a different matter.

charlie fox said...

oc,
"Be careful about including pedigrees", says Charlie Fox as he admires his Gold Framed Pedigree hanging on his wall. GRRRRRRRRR

charlie fox said...

YO, TC

oc said...

NBBCOF,

yes, thankyou, I stand corrected. I am only suspicious about a higher degree when the thinking shows a lower degree. Forgive my unbelief. It's kinda like magic, can't believe my eyes, if you know what I mean.

oc said...

YO, TC,!!!

Welcome back!!!!

concernedSBCer said...

Hi TC.....How are you tonight?

oc said...

Oh, sure concerned, ignore me. Not that I'm not jealous or anything...

concernedSBCer said...

awww...OC...I'm sorry.....not intentional, I promise! I love all my blog buddies!

Amy said...

Trollcakes-
You came back!
I am happy, you were missed.
I was afraid I was going to have to go to The Bratton Report to talk to you.

oc said...

Concerned,

Car. Socwork. Car. Socwork Winfrey. Car... Somehow, you're involved in this. Soooo..... Get er done!!!!

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 528   Newer› Newest»