Monday, March 26, 2007

Polls

Do you think the motion and subsequent vote to adjourn Sunday's business meeting was properly handled?
Yes
No
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Would you have voted for the $3 million gift to MABTS if it were designated to help pay off their debt?
Yes
No
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Would you have voted for the motion to hold quarterly business meetings and to adopt the 2002 SBC's resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers?
Yes
No
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734 comments:

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sickofthelies said...

TruthRules,

You are assuming that he is not a sociopath.

I'm not convinced he's not, in which case, none of what you say would be relevant about him.

Sociopaths do not care about consequences. They only care about their own needs and desires.

Just My Opinion.

Unknown said...

Truth rules,

I hope you're right, but that's where you and I differ. I don't want to stick around and "wait and see". I cannot worship the way I want to and need to and I cannot sit under his leadership knowing what I know about him. I really hope you and your family won't be injured or disappointed by any more of Steve's "mistakes". No, I cannot predict the future and cannot say for sure that he will continue to make "mistakes", but past actions do seem to indicate future results (can you tell I used to work for financial planners?) :)

Maybe I feel the way I do based on my past abuse wrought by my exhusband - Unfortunately it's in my personality makeup now to not want to hang out and get abused some more. I just don't have that "hang in there; it's bound to get better" gene anymore.

Can I throw a wrinkle in this conversation? I've discussed this with a few people and have gotten interesting responses so I want to throw it out there. What if the medications Steve Gaines takes for his MG make him unable to pastor the way he might pastor if he wasn't on medication? One of the medication for MG are steroids and I know they can screw up your brain chemistry (I have no personal knowledge of the medications Steve Gaines may or may not take - I'm just making conversation).

karen

sickofthelies said...

I have an email into MALCO to ask them about the cost for renting either the cordova theatre or the Stage theatre.

I'll let ya'll know what I find out.

sickofthelies said...

Karen,

RE: the meds

Was he on the same meds at his previous churches?

It is said that he did the SAME thing to those churches that he has done to ours.

If he was not on the same meds at those times, we are back to the fact that this is his basic personality.

sickofthelies said...

ALL I needed to know about SG is that he felt compassion for PW.

That told me all I needed to know.

imaresistor said...

Rusty Leonard said, “We would expect that most Christian Ministries, the leadership, should have some degree of sacrifice. You want to see that Jesus lived a life of sacrifice.”

Personally and speaking only for myself, I look for this characteristic, the quality of sacrifice, among the ministry today and sadly I don’t find it. The quality I look for first and foremost in a pastor is Christ likeness. I see Christ likeness and sacrifice to be one and the same. I find a humble spirit in one who gives of himself freely…a self-sacrifice without question and not because he sees it as being expected of him.

I had never heard of Rusty Leonard before last weekend, but he has made
an indelible impression upon my heart; one I feel I must share with all of you. So, just in case you missed the last airing of 20/20 I have it for you right here.

Before anyone might ask me how this is relevant to this thread; that I might be ‘off-topic’, suffice it to say that transparency would be the key factor, the common denominator. One area that I remain consistent in with my prayer life is asking for truth to be revealed to us. I believe that God is revealing truth to us in these end times in alarming, proportionate ways…evil is rampant, transparency has turned to opaqueness, lightness to darkness.

You Tube link to 20/2020/20youtube


Website to Ministry Watchministrywatch

This is the website stewareshippartnetsstewardshippartners

As an added benefit to having watched this last weekend, I have been introduced to Ministry Watch. Though I haven’t had the time to go into every avenue open to me/us through this ministry, I certainly plan to. Having explored parts of it, I feel safe in adding it to my post.

I would appreciate your views.

Ima

socwork said...

karen,

I think the "steriods" factor is an interesting element to consider, especially in light of personality changes. However, I have a hard time attributing poor judgement in decisions to medication side effects (just to give one example: keeping quiet about the pedophile on staff for six months).

Medications/steriods can certainly contribute to personality changes, but they do not, in my opinion, account for inappropriate decisions. I'm not a doctor though, so I may be waaay off on that opinion.

If (IF) steroid use did account for a series of decisions that are evidence of poor judgment, then it might be wise for SG to be either in a different career or to have a safety net in place for his decision making.

imaresistor said...

Girls,

My heart breaks as I 'listen in' to your conversations about staying together. As you know, I have been where you are now. Personally, it would be such a benefit to all of you to keep your fellowship together. We did and it made our 'transitioning' (ugly word) so much better. The worship time we spend together now is in many, many way so much greater that it ever was before. I will be in prayer for all of you as you make this transition and will ask my group to be as well. Who knows, when you get it all together, I might come an visit you in your new home. I would like that.

Support Brother Steve said...

After one week our petition has 432 legitimate signatures. Some represent a husband a wife, so after deletions we have about 450 signatures in support of Brother Steve.

I have to admit I am surprised at these results. Where are all the Bellevue staff members? Where are the deacons? Where are the Bible Fellowship teachers? If all of those people and their families signed we should easily have 1000 signatures.

Come on Bellevue. Show everyone how you feel. Please take a public stand for what you know in your heart is right.

Support Brother Steve said...

Forgot my link

Please show your love and support for Brother Steve today!

Unknown said...

SOTL,

I don't know about the meds for sure, but I do know that when Steve was mentioned in the Commercial Appeal back in 2005, one of the Search Committe assured my mom that Steve Gaines wasn't coming to BBC - Gardendale was in the middle of a building program and he felt he shouldn't leave. I think part of that reason for initially turning down the job here was due to the MG, but I cannot confirm it after all this time.

karen

upside down said...

Karen, while meds can affect one's thoughts and actions, I think that it's more an ego situaiton than meds. While I understand your position on leaving it is difficult for one older like myself to leave and start anew with friends and sunday school classes. Not that it's not within my ability but I will take a wait and see. I as well am unable to predict but I would be shocked if the reins are not so tight as to prevent another public issue.

As for some encouragement to you my parents made their home available for a new church. 15 years later it was the largest in the area. One thing about a new church or for those that go to other churches, the fellowships will get some people well equipped by Dr. Rogers instructional teachings. And that can be a good thing.

WatchingHISstory said...

sickofthelies

if SG is guilty of the sin of comission concerning the pedophile then AR was guilty of the sin of omission.

sickofthelies said...

Just heard from Malco.

Here are the prices:

7:30 AM to 11:15 AM ...$650

8:30 AM to 11:15 AM....$550

The prices are based on a 24 week contract.

If we had even a small crowd the first week, surely we could pull that off!!

Is there any interest?

Anyone know of a NON PDL pastor?

sickofthelies said...

watching history...

THERE YOU GO AGAIN.

imaresistor said...

Okay...the first link didn't make it to the 20/20 piece. I am going to try to link it again. If for some reason this doesn't work, go to the third link I have you in my first post with the three links. It is the same interview on 20/20.

Once again I try:20/20

upside down said...

watchhishistory wrote; "if SG is guilty of the sin of commission concerning the pedophile then AR was guilty of the sin of omission."

Now that's just some ignorant logic. Dr. Rogers did not know so there was no neglect on his part. If you follow that assumption then you are guilty of the same as you claim of our former pastor. But maybe you're the one who can read minds...

aslansown said...

Watchinghistory,

What do you think your contributing to this discussion with this constant monotonous recital of your disdain for Dr. Rogers? It appears to me that you have had some bone to pick with him for several years and this has turned into a root of bitternes.

The issue at hand is what responsibility that the ,current leadership has in this present crisis. In fact, by your own admission, you are not a member of Bellevue and so the current crisis should be having minimal effect on you. It is a very unwise thing to take up an offense that is not yours.

I respectfully request that you consider removing yourself from posting here until you have dealt with this personnaly and have something uplifting and constructive to add.

Please read and meditate on Hebrews 10:24.

Unknown said...

truth rules,

I understand your reluctance to leave - my family has attended BBC since 1978 (minus the 10 years for me in California)

Something really bothers me about what your wrote:

"I as well am unable to predict but I would be shocked if the reins are not so tight as to prevent another public issue."

Is that the kind of church you want to be associated with? One that has a "tight rein" on its pastor because he has a penchant for causing scandal? Really? On some level that has to really bug you. I guess the "rein" is David Coombs, but how long will he put up with having to "rein in" the pastor?

You're right about it being a good thing that others are finding churches in which to serve. I think the biggest victory in this whole shebang is that we're all out of our comfort zone - but that doesn't mean we need to tear each other up if we disagree. Eventually we'll all be together in Heaven and I'd hate to take time away from Jesus if I have to apologize to my brothers and sisters in Christ, after fighting for a church that became dust in the blink of an eye. There will too much to do in Heaven - say hi to Dr. Rogers and my grandma, ask Enoch how it felt to be "not", check out my mansion, etc. I don't want to waste time apologizing, do you?

karen

Lin said...

"That aside - God has proven over and over in the Bible that He will take away favor (grace) if you mess up what He's given you. He was sorry He made Saul a king, he punished David for adultery, etc."

Scripture also makes it clear that God only chastizes and disciplines those Whom are His. This is why so many think that numbers, material abundance, etc are a blessing when they may, in fact, not be a blessing at all but a scary indicator. For example: God blessed Esau, Hagar and others but we so no purposeful discipline with them.

watchman said...

Politically Incorrect ..or..
Non seeker-sensitive preaching..
aka
TRUTH

SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD

WatchingHISstory said...

aslansown

"It is a very unwise thing to take up an offense that is not yours."

It is an unwise thing to refuse an offence that comes from God.

overflowinggrace said...

Karen,

I wish the reins could have been tighter 30 years ago at Bellevue. That was when PW was first hired.

Yes the reins must be pulled tight because of the folks trying to make a scandal out of anything, not because of our Pastor. Without the PW scandal you have nothing. There are truley very few people who side with your position. While I am confident that you are a solid Christian lady, many on this blog have cast aside the integrity of Bellevue's leadership only because they disagree with them. I'm not talking Steve Gaines, I'm talking about Harry Smith, Larry Ray, Jean Stockdale, Jamie Parker. I can tell you that I witnessed an anti SG person talking on her cell phone in the sanctuary, during the invitation. That's when you have gone too far.

Unknown said...

watchman,

I haven't read that essay since 11th grade - thanks for bringing that up.

karen

WatchingHISstory said...

Hebrews 10:24 (King James Version)


24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Lin said...

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God is not an essay but one of the most important sermons of all time. It is definitly worth a read. You will not hear sermons like that anymore because we have dumbed down sin to the point of not recognizing it. Even in pastors.

Unknown said...

lin,

I went to public school - trust me, the called it an "essay" :)

But it is still as relevant now as it was then.

karen

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
overflowinggrace said...

Karen,

Your comparison is not correct. We saw the same things that you saw and it wasnt a murder.

aslansown said...

WH,
I should have included Hebrews 10:25 to place my comments in context.

Unknown said...

overflowing,

Ok, so there are only a few people that agree with my position - does that make my position more or less valid based on the number of people who agree with me?

That's like me being the only witness to a murder - I know who did it, but if no one agrees with me on what I saw, does that make the victim less dead?

karen

Unknown said...

overflowing,

Sorry I had to correct my post so now we're out of order - don't ya hate when that happens? :)

If you don't like the murder reference, how about "it's like seeing a car crash from 2 different vantage points - still don't make the damage any less damaging, right?

karen

overflowinggrace said...

Karen,

Thats still not correct, because you are not the only witness. Many of us are very aware of what has transpired. We just see it differently.

overflowinggrace said...

Ok...the car wreck is better. If 20 people are standing on the curb and 2 people say the wreck was caused by car #1 and 18 say it was caused by #2. It's a safe bet that car #2 is at fault.

WatchingHISstory said...

Video: Sinners in the hands of an Angry God


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMUwR23QLLE

docbellevue said...

Overflowinggrace,

I do not wish to debate you my friend, but I must comment on your 3:15 post.

I agree it is ridiculous and wrong to talk on a cell phone during the invitation. However, what about the lady behind me that said more than once for those trying to make motions to "sit down and shut up." Do you want to be lumped in with her? Does she represent your attitude?

Just because one person does something inappropriate does not mean everyone who shares that person's point-of-view would conduct themselves in like manner. Those who share my opinions are not one monolithic movement. There has been plenty of bad behavior all around. Be careful about painting with such a broad brush.

Also, is your argument that since the folks you listed have integrity we are to ignore a lack of integrity in others? Are you counting on their integrity to ensure the overall integrity of BBC's leadership? And just because they do not see a problem, does that mean others are wrong when they do see a problem?

I know men in positions of leadership and on staff at BBC that see these issues exactly the same way I see them. I'm in contact with them daily. However, I form my own opinions based on my observations and understanding of the Word. I do not take my cues from a few esteemed men. It would not matter if no one agreed with me.

Grace and peace to you.

Lin said...

"I went to public school - trust me, the called it an "essay" :)"

You read that in public school? I am very impressed!

overflowinggrace said...

Doc,

I agree with your first point. The only thing is that not only was she one the phone during the invitation she loudly flipped through magazine during the worship service. Your example is not in a worship setting. Had I not known why she was putting on a show, I would have asked her to leave.

On your second point, I'm not saying I believe because they do. I'm just saying don't cast these folks aside and question their salvation because you disagree with them.

aslansown said...

WH,
I define a personal offense as reserving for myself the right to ignore the Grace of God when confronted with that which I do not agree. In recent days I have willingly examined myself repeatedly for such a lack of spiritual maturity. I find it unscriptural to believe that God would have someone offended to the degree of abstraction in regard to brother. If anything, we would be broken-hearted for that person. This is the examplt that Stephen set for us at his stoning. This is the example of Grace that was exibited on the cross. Are we not to have the mind of Christ (Ph. 2:5) in regard to one another? To repeat a common phrase, "where is the love here?"

watchman said...

Shocking straight truth sermon from Paul Washer merits him being dis-invited to ever come back.

I beleive every man, woman , and child need to hear this message.

SHOCKING SERMON MERITS PREACHER BEING DIS-INVITED BACK

socwork said...

I wish the "PW scandal" was all there is, as that is more than enough really. Unfortunately, I think it was more like the icing on the cake. If you took that out of the equation, we are still looking at a serious problem with the leadership.

docbellevue said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
docbellevue said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
aslansown said...

Doc,
You and I have a kindred spirit.

docbellevue said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
imaresistor said...

Watchman,

You are right in that this is a superb message from an outstanding minister. Paul Washer is what every minister/pastor out there should be like. He is such that even so, being the humble man that he is would never admit it. He is a breath of fresh air in today's world of ministry. Also check out his Heartcry Ministry. He is affiliated with First Baptist Church of Muscle Shoals in Muscle Shoals, Alabama...Jeff Noblit's church. There is to be a True Church Conference held there early in May that many of you might like to attend.

Many of you would appreciate also the 20/20 airing from last Friday that I posted several posts' back. Why don't you back up at look at that?

WatchingHISstory said...

Are we not to have the mind of Christ (Ph. 2:5) in regard to one another? To repeat a common phrase, "where is the love here?"

Where is the love here?
Where is the love here?
Where is the love here?

Unknown said...

overflowing,

Never have I questioned anyone's salvation regardless of what "side" they are on. If I conveyed that in any way, please let me know and I'll delete that post.

lin,

It was long time ago and our English teacher had us read it. Funny how things change - not!

karen

watchman said...

Change Agents In The Church

Dealing with Resisters

DEALING WITH RESISTERS

watchman said...

The inevitable loneliness of The Christian

Encouragement for a post March 25th Bellevue

LONELINESS OF THE CHRISTIAN

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
imaresistor said...

sick of the lies,

"Anyone know of a NON PDL pastor?"

Few and far between...

What about the pastor who posted on the blog not long ago? Think he went to Bellevue. He wrote a two part 'piece' on the blog...remember? Think he said he is retired? His wife is ill. What about him?

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
docbellevue said...

Grace,

Again, I agree about the cell phone/magazine lady. Would you have asked the lady behind me who was telling people to sit down and shut up? I think you would agree that no one who spoke was ugly to Bryan Miller. You may disagree with what they had to say, but they did not have a hateful spirit. Do you think it was right for her to say that?

Do you think it was right for the pastor's sister-in-law to turn around and tell some of my friends they needed to find another church because they had no ministry at BBC? Do you think it was right that she and her daughter voted on every single vote even though, according to a friend, they are members of a Presbyterian church? Now, I do not think I should hold the pastor responsible for the foolishness of his wife's sister. Please don't hold all of us responsible for the foolishness of one obviously angry lady or the foolishness of a few who post on this blog. I know many who are down on their knees and broken over what they see happening in their church. The lady you describe does not describe those folks and she does not describe me.

I agree with you about questioning the salvation of those who disagree. You will not find even one instance of me doing that. I know a few do that who share my point-of-view, but I can find just as many examples of those who agree with you who are referring to us as "adversaries" or "evil." In fact, according to friends on staff, the pastor has been known to refer to us that way.

Again, it is dangerous to paint with a broad brush.

We need to extend as much grace as possible to each other, particularly during this time of troubles.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
overflowinggrace said...

Doc,

I'm not going to be rude to any of you guys. I agree with the pastor's sister in law, many just need to find another church or find a way to move past the issues that have upset you. If someone was rude to you outside of the worship service you need to handle that yourself. When someone is causing such a distraction that an entire section knows and a security guard is called....it seems a little different.

Lin said...

clip

Here is an interesting clip about clarity of scripture and feminizing the church. (All men at BBC should watch this)

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

WatchingHistory,

There is so much wonderful Christ-like love here....SO much love.

If one disagrees with you, it does not mean that you are not loved by the brothers and sisters here at this forum. We do love you and we love one another.

This is one of the most precious spots in this world that we all have to retreat to. People may fuss here, people may cry here, people may rejoice here, people may rebuke here.....but The LORD Jesus' love is with us through it all. We are His children.

Our Father is faithful who has called all of us unto His eternal salvation.

watchman said...

A PARABLE FOR THE GRIEVING
THE KING IS COMING

Lin said...

Others Can, You May Not

If God has called you to be really like Jesus He will draw you into a life of crucifixion and humility. God’s call will put such demands of obedience on you that you will not be able to follow other people, or measure yourself by other Christians. At times, He will let other people do things which He will not let you do.


Other Christians who seem very religious will push themselves, pull wires, and work schemes to carry out their plans. You cannot, and if you attempt it, you will meet with failure and rebuke from the Lord. Others may boast of themselves, of their work, of their successes, but the Holy Spirit will not allow you to do any such thing, and if you begin it, He will lead you to despise yourself and all your good works.


Others may be allowed to succeed in making money, or may have a legacy left to them, but it is likely God will keep you poor. God wants you to have something far better than gold, namely, a helpless dependence upon Him, that He may demonstrate His faithful love for you in supplying your needs day by day. God may let others be honored and put forward, and keep you hidden in obscurity in order to produce some fragrant fruit for His coming glory which can only be produced in the shade.


He may let others be great, but keep you small. He may let others do a work for Him and get the credit for it now. The reward for your work is held in the hands of Jesus and you will not see it until He comes. The Holy Spirit will put a strict watch over you with a jealous love. He will rebuke you for the little words and feelings or for wasting your time.


So make up your mind that God is an infinite Sovereign, and has a right to do as He pleases with His own. He does not owe you an explanation of these mysteries. But if you give yourself to be His child, He will wrap you up in a jealous love, and give you the precious blessings for those who belong, heart and soul, to Him.


Settle it forever, then, that you are to deal directly with the Holy Spirit. It is His option to tie your tongue, or chain your hand, or close your eyes in ways that He does not seem to use with others. And when you are so possessed by the living God that your heart delights over this peculiar, personal, private, jealous guardianship and management of the Holy Spirit over your life, you will have found the vestibule of Heaven.

Leonard Ravenhill

Lynn said...

Karen, ya have e-mail :)


And as far as steroids go, they do have an impact on the moods and behaviors of people hence the term "Roid Rage"

Lin said...

SOTL,

Thanks for your kind words. I think it would be great for you all to worship together. Read Acts a bunch of times and ask the Holy Spirit to show you how the early church started then read the letters many times. The early NT
church is NOTHING like we see today.

Hint: See how many pastors you can name in each of the NT churches

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
imaresistor said...

sotl

You might even start with SHOCKING SERMON MERITS PREACHER BEING DIS-INVITED BACK by Paul Washer. It is a video and ought to get your group off to a tremendous start.

You might consider home church until you can all make some solide decisions?

Anonymous said...

Are any of your teenagers upset about not having an "After Party" after the Junior/Senior Banquet?

They have always gone to Gillian's after the banquet. This is the part most of them wait for. My children and their friends are not wanting to go now, because there is no After Party. They say it will be a waste of money.

We did find out today the reason there is no after party is because the only time Donna and Steve could have their "Tea" with the Senior girls, is the day after the Banquet. They thought the girls wouldn't get up and come to the Tea if they stayed up all night at the After Party.

My children were pretty upset about this. The Junior/Senior Banquet was for hundreds of kids. The Senior Tea is just the 12th grade girls.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
upside down said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jessica said...

OFG,

I guess you were sitting near me :)

Crushed said...

Malco theater? Tread carefully!!!! Many on here have criticized Bellevue's gift to a prochoice church to rebuild after a fire. Yet, $35,000/yr of almost pure profit to Malco for using their facility would be ok???? Why does Malco exist? They exist simply to profit from the garbage that Hollywood puts out. Follow the money. Support Malco= Support Hollywood and all of the sin and garbage that goes with it- all the way to Washington. : )

imaresistor said...

SOTL...

Perhaps this is the new social gospel I keep hearing about? They worship a different Jesus. As Christians, people need to prioritize. Our children are not being presented with Jesus, but rather good times. Entertainment is the top billing whereas Jesus Christ should be the top billing. And this continues to manisfest.

Now, go ahead...beat me up.

Amy said...

Lin,
The Leonard Ravenhill post was wonderful! Thank you so much for sharing! I am going to keep it forever.

sickofthelies said...

sick of the lies

guys, the post on here this afternoon have not been frm me

You know who is doing this.

INitials:

CS

sickofthelies said...

someone has cloned my name

sickofthelies said...

check the # of profile hits

sickofthelies said...

Also, notice on MINE< i started mine in jan. of 07.

Cary and his buddies started theirs in March of 07.

Lynn said...

Check the line that says "On Blogger since"....
the Real SOTL's reads Jan. 2007...the clone reads March 2007

WatchingHISstory said...

an interesting article:
The dangers of the invitation sysytem

http://www.gracesermons.com/hisbygrace/invitation.html

sickofthelies said...

truth rules,

Friend, you owe me an apology.

Unknown said...

SOTL,

And here I was ready to attend church at Malco.

Cary, go away! And don't even think about taking me on, oh young one. You have no idea with whom you will mess. Threat, no - promise, yes.

karen

Unknown said...

I'm offline now

I've got 785 hits and been on since 2006 so in case I get hijacked you guys can verify for me!

Dominoes here I come! YUMMY

sickofthelies said...

Karen,

"I" did post about the Malco..and I still think it's a good idea for us all to meet together.

I admit that I did not fully think out the deal about Malco. I'm just brainstorming.

Anyone else have any other ideas?

sickofthelies said...

please note:

A court order can produce your computer.

allofgrace said...

Thisis worth a read.

WatchingHISstory said...

The semi-pelagian uses (abuses) John 6:37 to make his appeal. If you will repeat the sinner's prayer in a heartfelt way, God will hear and save you! He will tell you that, "God will not turn away anyone who comes to him in faith, He will make you a child of God if you will turn to him."

It is a fraudulent appeal because it assumes that the person will be saved by an "obligated" loving God. The evangelist has tricked the sinner and boxed in the "living" God. Since God will not be tricked the evangelist's god becomes a strange loving god.

The correction would have been for the preacher to read futher on in John 6:38-40 and know that it is the Father's will to give to Christ all that should be saved.

Me said...

I saw this on the last post but there is no activity there so I am reposting it here:

onlyamember Said: "Jamie is the ONLY BBC staff member that called, prayed and ministered to the family of the teenaged girl that was handcuffed and arrested at BBC."

12:46 PM, March 26, 2007

____________

What!!!

A tenaged girl arrested at BBC what year?

What did they arrest her for?



Jamie Fish prayed for her?
He Jamie Fish ministered to her family??

There has to be a reason behind his caring for her.

For whoever in the world who reads this who is a Christian ( Believer in our LORD Jesus) if you are willing please pray for me.

WatchingHISstory said...

The semi-pelagian will tell you, "God chose us so that we could choose him."

He will quote John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

He will tell you that God will make you his child IF you will turn to him. Again God is obligated to save the sinner because of the sinners' acknowledgement. Man's efforts are put before grace.

But he will refuse to read John 1:13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

solomon said...

not a member,

There are many reading this who are willing to pray for you. The majority do not post, but intercede on behalf of others as a regular part of their prayer life.

Could you perhaps share more about your situation? God knows your need, but we can better focus our minds if we know more. Are you in a crisis?

WatchingHISstory said...

The semi-pelagian evangelist will probally refer to this old song:

“Whosoever heareth,” shout, shout the sound!
Spread the blessed tidings all the world around;
Spread the joyful news wherever man is found:
“Whosoever will may come.”
Refrain:
“Whosoever will, whosoever will,”
Send the proclamation over vale and hill;
’Tis a loving Father calls the wand’rer home:
“Whosoever will may come.”
Whosoever cometh need not delay,
Now the door is open, enter while you may;
Jesus is the true, the only Living Way:
“Whosoever will may come.”
“Whosoever will,” the promise secure,
“Whosoever will,” forever must endure;
“Whosoever will,” ’tis life forevermore:
“Whosoever will may come.”

Again the living God is obligated by deceit to be a loving God. God's free will is forfeited to man's free will.

Junkster said...

At 3:36 PM, March 27, 2007
overflowinggrace said...
Ok...the car wreck is better. If 20 people are standing on the curb and 2 people say the wreck was caused by car #1 and 18 say it was caused by #2. It's a safe bet that car #2 is at fault.

junk99mail says...
Depends on the vantage point. 18 people could all be in one place and 2 in another, but the 2 had a better angle to view things from. (That's why the umpire in a baseball game stands behind the catcher and not in the stands--better perspective.)

From where I stand, though, it is more like everyone sees a different piece of the puzzle, and no one has it all right -- except God. Therefore it is best to keep focused on Him, the source of overflowing grace.

solomon said...

not a member of a church,

You are being prayed for.

The teenage girl was arrested at BBC because of a misunderstanding. We are not in a situation like in other parts of the world, where people are arrested because of their faith. Still, the concern that Jamie Fish showed to the family is the same concern that true Christians have for all of our brothers and sisters who suffer persecution in whatever situation they are in.

Know that the prayer support behind you is great!

upside down said...

SOTL, how was I to know? I am sorry, hope this doesn't damage our friendship.

Junkster said...

watchinghisstory,
A question for you. Would you agree with the following statement?

"Salvation requires faith in Jesus Christ and repentance of sin."

Lily said...

AOG -
Thanks for the link.

WatchingHISstory said...

The semi-pelagian pastor says: "When you 'come to Jesus', you are predestined to heaven."

But really pastor, "When we are predestined for heaven we come to Jesus."

Arn't we lost miserable sinners and perhaps we hear him say , "Come to me" and we obey his call.

WatchingHISstory said...

junk99mail

As long as the faith is not of the flesh and will of man. The faith must be a gift in the power of God.

oc said...

Karen,
Please email me,I can't access yours for some reason until you do. I Just have some minor info for you. Thanks. oc

solomon said...

not a member of a church said...
For whoever in the world who reads this who is a Christian ( Believer in our LORD Jesus) if you are willing please pray for me.


Would other bloggers care to affirm their prayer support for our fellow Christian in whatever circumstance they are in?

Lindon said...

aog, about the link: Wow! Amen.
Hey, it would just be a return to our roots.

Lindon said...

Not a member, would you e-mail me? Thanks. My e-mail is on the meta.

WatchingHISstory said...

junk99mail

Are you born again by the will of the Father or by the will of man?

Junkster said...

At 12:06 PM, March 27, 2007
aslansown said...
Karen,
Usually licensing follows ordination. The church ordains someone to the ministry by setting them aside to do this work and uaually in an open service after the candidate has convinced an ordination board that they are worthy of being set aprt to the work of The Gospel.
Licensing is carried out by the state and is a recognition that the person has been set apart by thier religious group or denomination.

junk99mail says...
I can't speak with certainty what is done in other denominations and countries, but in most Baptist churches in the U.S. (such as SB churches), licensing normally comes first. When a man senses that God is directing him to full-time vocational ministry (such as the pastorate), his church will normally affirm their agreement that God is at work in the man's life and desire to minister by "licensing" him. This is often done at the initiation of the church pastor or the deacons, and is accomplished via a congregational vote. The practice in the U.S. began in colonial days when most states had one of more officially recognized denominations, and licensing served as a way of for a man to be legally allowed to preach in public gatherings. In current practice, licensing serves as a church's initial confirmation of a man's call to ministry, and an encouragment for the man to begin to pursue the use of his gifts in preaching, teaching, ministering, etc.

At a later point, usually when the man has completed any preparations for full-time, vocational ministry (such as Bible college or seminary -- not necessarily required, but encouraged by most churches), and once he has started (or is about to start) in an official position of church service (pastor, associate pastor, etc.) the man is presented as a candidate for ordination. Ordination which is a more formal process involving the congregation's establishment of an "ordination council" (pastor, staff, deacons, godly leaders, etc.), which examines the man in terms of character and holiness (e.g., the qualificatons in Timothy & Titus), and also in terms of doctrinal correctness (the basics of historic Christian orthodoxy, such as the Trinity, deity of Christ, etc., plus the particular distincitives of the denomination, such as believer's immersion, etc.). If the ordination counsel is persuaded of the fruits of his life in these matters, they will make a report and recommendation to the congregation that he be ordained to gospel ministry. Then the ordination itself is normally performed via a congregational meeting and vote, with one or more sermons directed at both the congregation and the ministerial candidate, regarding their mutual obligations toward one another, culminating with the laying on of hands (by the ordained men of the church -- pastors and deacons)with prayers of blessing over the candidate. At this point the person is considered an "ordained minister" -- and for most states this (not licensing) is what is required for a man to be able to legally perform weddings, etc.

More than you ever wanted to know, I'm sure...

Junkster said...

watchinghisstory,
Thanks for the response. In response to your question, "Are you born again by the will of the Father or by the will of man?" I affirm it is wholly the former and none of the latter. Not only for me, but for all who are born again. The will of man is in no way connected to, responsible for, or required for the new birth. Salvation, however, requires the willful choice to exercise the God-given gifts of faith and repentance granted via the new birth. This affirmative choice to repent and believe is the natural and necessary consequence of the new birth, but is in nonethless required for salvation. Agreed?

WatchingHISstory said...

junk99mail

PTL!!!

off line

sickofthelies said...

Truth,

Yeah, it's all good :)

solomon said...

not a member of a church said...
For whoever in the world who reads this who is a Christian ( Believer in our LORD Jesus) if you are willing please pray for me.


not a member,
As I said, many readers do not post messages to the blog. Still, they are aware of their duty to pray for you and other Christians.

In the words of Samuel,
As for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the LORD by failing to pray for you.

Whatever it is that you're facing, you're not alone.

concernedSBCer said...

Not a member: I have prayed for you as well.

sickofthelies said...

Ok, on a lighter note this evening, I dreamed this afternoon during a nap ( hehe) that Derrick Calcotte invited everyone from the blog over to his house for a swimming party.

Derrick, do you have a pool? :)

Anonymous said...

Solomon, thanks for answering the post directed to me; we have been gone all day.

Not a member, I would be honored to pray for you. Know that you are being prayed for at this moment.

Junkster said...

SOTL,
I am glad the little dude is gone from your computer so you can post regularly. You're one of my favorite peoples! So when am I taking you, piglet, & Dee to lunch? :)

2006huldah said...

These links that Watchman put on here are so powerful. Be forewarned--if you are not truly saved, you will be offended. Of course, that should be your warning light to "get right or get left". The link for the Paul Washer message was posted at 3:48 PM. Listen to it. It's vital.

Jesus is Lord!

Dee

sickofthelies said...

junk,

Well, since you ARE paying, let's go to J.Alexander's... :)

We might can spy on some folks while we are there, I hear that some BBC folks hang out there for lunch.

I'll bring my spy glasses.

Junkster said...

SOTL,
J. Alexanders is fine! I was thinking Paulette's, Jim's Place East, or Folk's Folly, but if you wanna slum it, that's okay by me! Or maybe we should see what's available in New York, if we're gonna be spying! :)

concernedSBCer said...

SOTL: Don't forget your recorder. ;)

sickofthelies said...

New York!!!

Now THERE's an idea!!!

We can do some REAL sleuthing while we are there.

Junkster said...

SOTL,
P.S. I've seen more than once church renting the little conference center on Appling down the road from BBC (by the FedEx station), so maybe it is available. I bet you could find a decent preacher across the street--get a young preacher-boy and train him right! :)

Junkster said...

Anyone,
Isn't Trinity Baptist the one started by First Baptist? If so, and unless there has been a major change of direction, I'd be concerned about that.

John Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
allofgrace said...

Trinity was started from a group of moderates from 1st Baptist...they are part of a new Baptist organization now I think.

allofgrace said...

lily, lindon,
Dr. Akin is really in tune with the problems in the SBC...he's made several statements of late that are right on the mark.

Junkster said...

allofgrace.
Moderates? As in less liberal than First Baptist or as in less conservative than Bellevue Baptist? :) Didn't the pastor of First leave there to help start Trinity? Though he might have used the term moderate for himself, by BBC (and biblical) standards, theologically liberal would be more a more accurate term for his positions.

Junkster said...

SOTL,
I really could swing J Alexanders, and as I said I would be honored, but I'm not up to funding trips for 4 to New York! Maybe I should switch careers and pastor a mega-church to make a higher salary! heh heh. With my personal moral failings, I just might be qualified! (I know, I am being mean and hateful.)

youthmomma said...

I love the people at Trinity! I worked there years ago and I do know they have women as deacons. That was always a sore spot for me because I think they started that while I was working there. Anyway, since I only worked there I didn't hear sermons or anything like that. I just dealt with people and they were great to me. The pastor was really sweet too, but I couldn't get past the women as deacons issue.

allofgrace said...

junk,
"moderate" is relative I suppose...that's what they were called at the time...my opinion is that "moderate" is PC for liberal.

allofgrace said...

They started Trinity because they were unhappy that the conservatives were in power in the SBC.

concernedSBCer said...

youthmomma: They are sweet but I couldn't get past the women deacons either.

watchman said...

SPIRIT LED OR PURPOSE DRIVEN ?

Spirit Led or Purpose Driven

oc said...

Hello, friends,
What we talkin' bout Willis?

sickofthelies said...

WE just watched BBC turn into a liberal church on Sunday when they voted to keep the status quo on the men who gave $25,000 for abortions and homosexuals, AND when they voted not to vote on the issue of sexual immorality amongst our pastors.

I'm going to have to pass on Trinity Baptist if they are a liberal church.

oc said...

SOTL,
I think You're right.

sickofthelies said...

Hello OC

Scroll up!! Derrick Calcotte has invited everyone over to his house for a swimming party!!

aslansown said...

#578 at "you know where" has an iteresting take n the situation.

oc said...

Yahoo! Give me the adress. BBC won't.

Junkster said...

allofgrace,
Yes, the folks who started Trinity (like the folks at both First & Second Baptist) were unhappy about the swing of SBC leadership and agencies toward a more theologically conservative stance (meaning primarily a commitment to the inerrancy of scripture). But I don't think that had anything to do with why it was started, since the parent church shared the same liberal ideas. Trinity was started because the pastor of First and a good half of the congregation believed that First should relocate from the edge of Midtown somewhere further east, but the other half wanted to stay put...so they compromised and agreed to start another church, led by the pastor at First. It was basically a mutually agreed upon church split, done in a friendly fashion, so both sides got what they wanted. (I wish more churches in conflict could conduct themselves in that way!)

I am sure that many folks there, and the new pastor, are nice people, and that there fine, committed Christians there. But theologically it would be far from Bellevue's biblically-grounded roots. The music and culture however, are most likely more on the traditional side, as is the case in many of the most liberal Southern Baptist churches. (They don't seem to mind being liberal when it comes to belief in scripture, but they stick with tradition when it comes to worship styles!) This could mislead some folks from theologically conservative Baptist churches (who are unhappy with current trends in music, worship, and atmosphere) into thinking that the church is theologically sound, just because the atmosphere is more familiar and comfortable, the people are friendly, and they talk about familiar, traditional Baptist things like missions and RAs, GAs, ActTeens, & Mission Friends. :)

oc said...

SOTL, Yeah,I know, I can't spell. But I can swim!

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Junkster said...

I was just laughing about SOTL's new "rumor" (that came from a dream! A DREAM!) about the swimming party at Derrick's, but then I really lost it when oc made the remark about the church not giving out his address! You two make a good comedy team! Glad I wasn't taking a drink of my Diet Rite at the time! :)

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
watchman said...

Re-Inventing The Church

A well researched analysis of the war onHistoric Christian Faith now being waged.

REINVENTING THE CHURCH

sickofthelies said...

OC,

Well, then get your little froggie intertube and beach towel and ring the doorbell!! LOL

aslansown said...

sickofdalies,
It looks as though you are using a new computer also. Are you the real you?

oc said...

Junk,

Glad to be of service! :)

Diet Rite through the nose hurts, doen't it?

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
sickofthelies said...

alanstown,

Wow! how did you know that I have a new computer?

I forgot when I got it, but yes, it's fairly new..I guess I have had it for a couple of months now.

Junkster said...

SOTL,
What concerns me is that we can no longer trust whether a Baptist church is theologically sound and on the right track based on whether or not they would align themselves with the conservative belief in the innerancy of scripture ... at one point it was just assumed that those who claimed to believe that God's Word was absolute and innerant truth would consider it equally important to live personally according to the Word, and to conduct the church according to the Word. We are now into the "uncharted waters" where churches and pastors claim to believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, but consider obedience to it optional. Strange times indeed. Who knows, you might find more people concerned about obeying the Word at a place that doesn't talk so much about how much they believe it! Being as theologically conservative as I am, I NEVER thought I'd say something like that!

sickofthelies said...

OH, Alan

Wait

I did not realize that Cary is up to his tricks again.

oc said...

SOTL,

I would be on the way, except a.)_ I don't have the address, and b. Socwork never gave me the car I was promised!

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Junkster said...

sickofDAlies,
Why not just find a more unique username to avoid confusion altogether? I think we'd all appreciate it.

aslansown said...

ooooo weeeeee ooooh!

That one was too easy sickofdalies

sickofthelies said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sickofthelies said...

Cary

NO, your new name is NOT alright with me. It is designed to cause confusion, which is your specialty.

Dont' you have some little jr. high friends you can go hang out with and leave the adults alone to tend to adult business?

Run along, now.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
aslansown said...

Do remember that it was said of Aslan "He is dangerous, but good".

oc said...

SOTL,
How did you know I had a froggie innertube? You been talkin' to someone? You better have gotten this on tape or I'll deny it. No, I never had a dream about my froggie! Never!

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
aslansown said...

No, your not Cary, but you know him well.

sickofthelies said...

cary

How pathetic!

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
watchman said...

A rare SMILE in the middle of battle

CHURCH LEADERS LEAVE WILLOW CREEK LEADERSHIP SUMMITT TO SPREAD MESSAGE

Lynn said...

sickofdalies,

Please change your name. Its obvious that all your trying to do is cause trouble.

aslansown said...

You don't have to meet someone in person to know them well.

Junkster said...

DA-lies,
If you really want to post here, and if you really aren't Cary, I strongly suggest you get another, more unique username (and a much better attitude), or I am confident our moderator won't let you hang around for long. Just some friendly advice. SOTL is much loved here and you will get yourself nowhere in a hurry messing with her.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
oc said...

I guess sick has magical powers too. You guys should start a magic show! I will buy the first ticket!


You would be the first one I'd 'disappear'.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
aslansown said...

say SODL, got anything of substance to discuss or just hangin' around looking for something to do?

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
sickofthelies said...

((((( junk )))))

oc said...

NASS,

Off him.

sickofthelies said...

cary,

I don't think everyone that disagrees with me is you, only the ones that are obviously VERY immature, in the 8 to 10 y/o range.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
watchman said...

And even MORE satire based on TRUTH

The NEW Purpose Driven MESSAGE Bible

PD MESSAGE BIBLE

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Junkster said...

DA-lies,
Please read this, and take it to heart. This will change everything for you ...

http://www.mabts.edu/templates/
cusmabts/details.asp?id=23267&PID=68510

oc said...

NASS,

Off him.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
oc said...

'I used to go to church but the hypocrites turned me off.'

Standard answer for a sissy.

sickofthelies said...

oc,

And it isn't even true. He goes, he's there all the time.

But you would have to go to the jr. high department to find him.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
oc said...

SOTL,
I would find 'him' in the 'girls' department.? That shplains it!

Junkster said...

DA-lies,
I have nothing more signficant to share than what God has already said, and there's nothing more I can do than He has already done. I'm sorry for the negative experiences you have had with the pretenders and wanna-bes of churches--we all fall so very short of what our Lord wants us to be. That's why we need His mercy, grace, forgiveness, and salvation. I pray that you will see past the ugliness of us, His imperfect followers, and see his beauty and perfection, and your desperate need for Him. I pray that God will give you the grace to embrace Jesus Christ, to flee from the coming wrath of God on those who do not obey His gospel and submit to His Lordship in repentance and faith. "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord."

Junkster said...

All,
Take a breath, say a prayer for God to do His work.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
sickofthelies said...

WEll, folks, I"m going to go and read for a while.

OC, don't drown in Derrick's pool!!!

Folks, I don't even know if Derrick has a pool, and I don't even know Derrick. But maybe i'll dream tonight and be able to come up with more info on that swimming party!!! :)

night ya'll!!!

sickofthelies said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Junkster said...

DA-lies,
Don't look at us. Just look at Him, crucified, wounded, bleeding, dying, taking our place, for our sins, giving His life and blood for our salvation. Look at His resurrection, His power, His glory, His ability to bring new life, even to our tattered souls. Trust Him, respond in faith to His mercy and love, repent of the sin that separates us all from Him. Then none of what anyone here has to say will matter.

Junkster said...

SOTL,
Night, friend! {{{{SOTL}}}}

I gotta sleep, too...more judy duty tomorrow! I'll be glad when this is over!

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
oc said...

I admit I'm a hypocrite. Now what?
Where are you? And I'll admit, I think you need some 'adjustment', and I'd like to be the one to 'adjust' you. Just being honest, no 'hypocrite' about it. But you, like me, have to answer to the One who will adjust it all. And He will do it. Believe that.

bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
oc said...

You shouldn't be worrying about me.

WatchingHISstory said...

junk99mail said...
SOTL,
What concerns me is that we can no longer trust whether a Baptist church is theologically sound and on the right track based on whether or not they would align themselves with the conservative belief in the innerancy of scripture ... at one point it was just assumed that those who claimed to believe that God's Word was absolute and innerant truth would consider it equally important to live personally according to the Word, and to conduct the church according to the Word. We are now into the "uncharted waters" where churches and pastors claim to believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, but consider obedience to it optional. Strange times indeed. Who knows, you might find more people concerned about obeying the Word at a place that doesn't talk so much about how much they believe it! Being as theologically conservative as I am, I NEVER thought I'd say something like that!

11:37 PM, March 27, 2007

WatchingHISstory said...

(The ministers of Bellevue under the legacy of Rogers) have not yet been made acquainted with the "mysteries of iniquity" in the communion in which they have been trained, and they do not suspect the deceptions that are practiced there.

Semi-pelagianism does not aquaint one with the "mysteries of iniquity" and leaves the spirit of self determination to do his work of corruption.

11:29 AM, March 27, 2007

WatchingHISstory said...

This is the life line, oh, grasp it today!
See, you are recklessly drifting away;
Voices in warning, shout over the wave,
O grasp the strong life line, for Jesus can save.

WatchingHISstory said...

That lifeline better have one of these on the end of it!

Dexter 4" Stainless Steel Meat Hook

then when you reel it in what are you going to do with the catch?

WatchingHISstory said...

baptize it

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
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