About Me
- New BBC Open Forum
- This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church and the SBC can come to comment and exchange ideas. Anonymous comments are welcome, but it is respectfully requested that instead of choosing the "Anonymous" option those who want to post comments without logging in select a unique screen name. This lets everyone tell the difference between one anon and another without revealing any personal information. Under the box where you compose your comment where it says "Choose an identity," just check "Name/URL" and type in the screen name of your choice. You can leave the URL field blank. It would be helpful if you'd use the same screen name for any subsequent comments. This makes reading and following discussions easier, helps avoid confusion, and doesn't result in one person being credited for writing something s/he didn't. Comments by posters whose only purpose is to disrupt (i.e. trolls) will be subject to deletion. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
725 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 725 Newer› Newest»Girls,
My heart breaks as I 'listen in' to your conversations about staying together. As you know, I have been where you are now. Personally, it would be such a benefit to all of you to keep your fellowship together. We did and it made our 'transitioning' (ugly word) so much better. The worship time we spend together now is in many, many way so much greater that it ever was before. I will be in prayer for all of you as you make this transition and will ask my group to be as well. Who knows, when you get it all together, I might come an visit you in your new home. I would like that.
After one week our petition has 432 legitimate signatures. Some represent a husband a wife, so after deletions we have about 450 signatures in support of Brother Steve.
I have to admit I am surprised at these results. Where are all the Bellevue staff members? Where are the deacons? Where are the Bible Fellowship teachers? If all of those people and their families signed we should easily have 1000 signatures.
Come on Bellevue. Show everyone how you feel. Please take a public stand for what you know in your heart is right.
Forgot my link
Please show your love and support for Brother Steve today!
SOTL,
I don't know about the meds for sure, but I do know that when Steve was mentioned in the Commercial Appeal back in 2005, one of the Search Committe assured my mom that Steve Gaines wasn't coming to BBC - Gardendale was in the middle of a building program and he felt he shouldn't leave. I think part of that reason for initially turning down the job here was due to the MG, but I cannot confirm it after all this time.
karen
Karen, while meds can affect one's thoughts and actions, I think that it's more an ego situaiton than meds. While I understand your position on leaving it is difficult for one older like myself to leave and start anew with friends and sunday school classes. Not that it's not within my ability but I will take a wait and see. I as well am unable to predict but I would be shocked if the reins are not so tight as to prevent another public issue.
As for some encouragement to you my parents made their home available for a new church. 15 years later it was the largest in the area. One thing about a new church or for those that go to other churches, the fellowships will get some people well equipped by Dr. Rogers instructional teachings. And that can be a good thing.
sickofthelies
if SG is guilty of the sin of comission concerning the pedophile then AR was guilty of the sin of omission.
Just heard from Malco.
Here are the prices:
7:30 AM to 11:15 AM ...$650
8:30 AM to 11:15 AM....$550
The prices are based on a 24 week contract.
If we had even a small crowd the first week, surely we could pull that off!!
Is there any interest?
Anyone know of a NON PDL pastor?
watching history...
THERE YOU GO AGAIN.
Okay...the first link didn't make it to the 20/20 piece. I am going to try to link it again. If for some reason this doesn't work, go to the third link I have you in my first post with the three links. It is the same interview on 20/20.
Once again I try:20/20
watchhishistory wrote; "if SG is guilty of the sin of commission concerning the pedophile then AR was guilty of the sin of omission."
Now that's just some ignorant logic. Dr. Rogers did not know so there was no neglect on his part. If you follow that assumption then you are guilty of the same as you claim of our former pastor. But maybe you're the one who can read minds...
Watchinghistory,
What do you think your contributing to this discussion with this constant monotonous recital of your disdain for Dr. Rogers? It appears to me that you have had some bone to pick with him for several years and this has turned into a root of bitternes.
The issue at hand is what responsibility that the ,current leadership has in this present crisis. In fact, by your own admission, you are not a member of Bellevue and so the current crisis should be having minimal effect on you. It is a very unwise thing to take up an offense that is not yours.
I respectfully request that you consider removing yourself from posting here until you have dealt with this personnaly and have something uplifting and constructive to add.
Please read and meditate on Hebrews 10:24.
truth rules,
I understand your reluctance to leave - my family has attended BBC since 1978 (minus the 10 years for me in California)
Something really bothers me about what your wrote:
"I as well am unable to predict but I would be shocked if the reins are not so tight as to prevent another public issue."
Is that the kind of church you want to be associated with? One that has a "tight rein" on its pastor because he has a penchant for causing scandal? Really? On some level that has to really bug you. I guess the "rein" is David Coombs, but how long will he put up with having to "rein in" the pastor?
You're right about it being a good thing that others are finding churches in which to serve. I think the biggest victory in this whole shebang is that we're all out of our comfort zone - but that doesn't mean we need to tear each other up if we disagree. Eventually we'll all be together in Heaven and I'd hate to take time away from Jesus if I have to apologize to my brothers and sisters in Christ, after fighting for a church that became dust in the blink of an eye. There will too much to do in Heaven - say hi to Dr. Rogers and my grandma, ask Enoch how it felt to be "not", check out my mansion, etc. I don't want to waste time apologizing, do you?
karen
"That aside - God has proven over and over in the Bible that He will take away favor (grace) if you mess up what He's given you. He was sorry He made Saul a king, he punished David for adultery, etc."
Scripture also makes it clear that God only chastizes and disciplines those Whom are His. This is why so many think that numbers, material abundance, etc are a blessing when they may, in fact, not be a blessing at all but a scary indicator. For example: God blessed Esau, Hagar and others but we so no purposeful discipline with them.
Politically Incorrect ..or..
Non seeker-sensitive preaching..
aka
TRUTH
SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD
aslansown
"It is a very unwise thing to take up an offense that is not yours."
It is an unwise thing to refuse an offence that comes from God.
Karen,
I wish the reins could have been tighter 30 years ago at Bellevue. That was when PW was first hired.
Yes the reins must be pulled tight because of the folks trying to make a scandal out of anything, not because of our Pastor. Without the PW scandal you have nothing. There are truley very few people who side with your position. While I am confident that you are a solid Christian lady, many on this blog have cast aside the integrity of Bellevue's leadership only because they disagree with them. I'm not talking Steve Gaines, I'm talking about Harry Smith, Larry Ray, Jean Stockdale, Jamie Parker. I can tell you that I witnessed an anti SG person talking on her cell phone in the sanctuary, during the invitation. That's when you have gone too far.
watchman,
I haven't read that essay since 11th grade - thanks for bringing that up.
karen
Hebrews 10:24 (King James Version)
24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God is not an essay but one of the most important sermons of all time. It is definitly worth a read. You will not hear sermons like that anymore because we have dumbed down sin to the point of not recognizing it. Even in pastors.
lin,
I went to public school - trust me, the called it an "essay" :)
But it is still as relevant now as it was then.
karen
Karen,
Your comparison is not correct. We saw the same things that you saw and it wasnt a murder.
WH,
I should have included Hebrews 10:25 to place my comments in context.
overflowing,
Ok, so there are only a few people that agree with my position - does that make my position more or less valid based on the number of people who agree with me?
That's like me being the only witness to a murder - I know who did it, but if no one agrees with me on what I saw, does that make the victim less dead?
karen
overflowing,
Sorry I had to correct my post so now we're out of order - don't ya hate when that happens? :)
If you don't like the murder reference, how about "it's like seeing a car crash from 2 different vantage points - still don't make the damage any less damaging, right?
karen
Karen,
Thats still not correct, because you are not the only witness. Many of us are very aware of what has transpired. We just see it differently.
Ok...the car wreck is better. If 20 people are standing on the curb and 2 people say the wreck was caused by car #1 and 18 say it was caused by #2. It's a safe bet that car #2 is at fault.
Video: Sinners in the hands of an Angry God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMUwR23QLLE
Overflowinggrace,
I do not wish to debate you my friend, but I must comment on your 3:15 post.
I agree it is ridiculous and wrong to talk on a cell phone during the invitation. However, what about the lady behind me that said more than once for those trying to make motions to "sit down and shut up." Do you want to be lumped in with her? Does she represent your attitude?
Just because one person does something inappropriate does not mean everyone who shares that person's point-of-view would conduct themselves in like manner. Those who share my opinions are not one monolithic movement. There has been plenty of bad behavior all around. Be careful about painting with such a broad brush.
Also, is your argument that since the folks you listed have integrity we are to ignore a lack of integrity in others? Are you counting on their integrity to ensure the overall integrity of BBC's leadership? And just because they do not see a problem, does that mean others are wrong when they do see a problem?
I know men in positions of leadership and on staff at BBC that see these issues exactly the same way I see them. I'm in contact with them daily. However, I form my own opinions based on my observations and understanding of the Word. I do not take my cues from a few esteemed men. It would not matter if no one agreed with me.
Grace and peace to you.
"I went to public school - trust me, the called it an "essay" :)"
You read that in public school? I am very impressed!
Doc,
I agree with your first point. The only thing is that not only was she one the phone during the invitation she loudly flipped through magazine during the worship service. Your example is not in a worship setting. Had I not known why she was putting on a show, I would have asked her to leave.
On your second point, I'm not saying I believe because they do. I'm just saying don't cast these folks aside and question their salvation because you disagree with them.
WH,
I define a personal offense as reserving for myself the right to ignore the Grace of God when confronted with that which I do not agree. In recent days I have willingly examined myself repeatedly for such a lack of spiritual maturity. I find it unscriptural to believe that God would have someone offended to the degree of abstraction in regard to brother. If anything, we would be broken-hearted for that person. This is the examplt that Stephen set for us at his stoning. This is the example of Grace that was exibited on the cross. Are we not to have the mind of Christ (Ph. 2:5) in regard to one another? To repeat a common phrase, "where is the love here?"
Shocking straight truth sermon from Paul Washer merits him being dis-invited to ever come back.
I beleive every man, woman , and child need to hear this message.
SHOCKING SERMON MERITS PREACHER BEING DIS-INVITED BACK
I wish the "PW scandal" was all there is, as that is more than enough really. Unfortunately, I think it was more like the icing on the cake. If you took that out of the equation, we are still looking at a serious problem with the leadership.
Doc,
You and I have a kindred spirit.
Watchman,
You are right in that this is a superb message from an outstanding minister. Paul Washer is what every minister/pastor out there should be like. He is such that even so, being the humble man that he is would never admit it. He is a breath of fresh air in today's world of ministry. Also check out his Heartcry Ministry. He is affiliated with First Baptist Church of Muscle Shoals in Muscle Shoals, Alabama...Jeff Noblit's church. There is to be a True Church Conference held there early in May that many of you might like to attend.
Many of you would appreciate also the 20/20 airing from last Friday that I posted several posts' back. Why don't you back up at look at that?
Are we not to have the mind of Christ (Ph. 2:5) in regard to one another? To repeat a common phrase, "where is the love here?"
Where is the love here?
Where is the love here?
Where is the love here?
overflowing,
Never have I questioned anyone's salvation regardless of what "side" they are on. If I conveyed that in any way, please let me know and I'll delete that post.
lin,
It was long time ago and our English teacher had us read it. Funny how things change - not!
karen
Change Agents In The Church
Dealing with Resisters
DEALING WITH RESISTERS
The inevitable loneliness of The Christian
Encouragement for a post March 25th Bellevue
LONELINESS OF THE CHRISTIAN
sick of the lies,
"Anyone know of a NON PDL pastor?"
Few and far between...
What about the pastor who posted on the blog not long ago? Think he went to Bellevue. He wrote a two part 'piece' on the blog...remember? Think he said he is retired? His wife is ill. What about him?
Grace,
Again, I agree about the cell phone/magazine lady. Would you have asked the lady behind me who was telling people to sit down and shut up? I think you would agree that no one who spoke was ugly to Bryan Miller. You may disagree with what they had to say, but they did not have a hateful spirit. Do you think it was right for her to say that?
Do you think it was right for the pastor's sister-in-law to turn around and tell some of my friends they needed to find another church because they had no ministry at BBC? Do you think it was right that she and her daughter voted on every single vote even though, according to a friend, they are members of a Presbyterian church? Now, I do not think I should hold the pastor responsible for the foolishness of his wife's sister. Please don't hold all of us responsible for the foolishness of one obviously angry lady or the foolishness of a few who post on this blog. I know many who are down on their knees and broken over what they see happening in their church. The lady you describe does not describe those folks and she does not describe me.
I agree with you about questioning the salvation of those who disagree. You will not find even one instance of me doing that. I know a few do that who share my point-of-view, but I can find just as many examples of those who agree with you who are referring to us as "adversaries" or "evil." In fact, according to friends on staff, the pastor has been known to refer to us that way.
Again, it is dangerous to paint with a broad brush.
We need to extend as much grace as possible to each other, particularly during this time of troubles.
Doc,
I'm not going to be rude to any of you guys. I agree with the pastor's sister in law, many just need to find another church or find a way to move past the issues that have upset you. If someone was rude to you outside of the worship service you need to handle that yourself. When someone is causing such a distraction that an entire section knows and a security guard is called....it seems a little different.
clip
Here is an interesting clip about clarity of scripture and feminizing the church. (All men at BBC should watch this)
WatchingHistory,
There is so much wonderful Christ-like love here....SO much love.
If one disagrees with you, it does not mean that you are not loved by the brothers and sisters here at this forum. We do love you and we love one another.
This is one of the most precious spots in this world that we all have to retreat to. People may fuss here, people may cry here, people may rejoice here, people may rebuke here.....but The LORD Jesus' love is with us through it all. We are His children.
Our Father is faithful who has called all of us unto His eternal salvation.
A PARABLE FOR THE GRIEVING
THE KING IS COMING
Others Can, You May Not
If God has called you to be really like Jesus He will draw you into a life of crucifixion and humility. God’s call will put such demands of obedience on you that you will not be able to follow other people, or measure yourself by other Christians. At times, He will let other people do things which He will not let you do.
Other Christians who seem very religious will push themselves, pull wires, and work schemes to carry out their plans. You cannot, and if you attempt it, you will meet with failure and rebuke from the Lord. Others may boast of themselves, of their work, of their successes, but the Holy Spirit will not allow you to do any such thing, and if you begin it, He will lead you to despise yourself and all your good works.
Others may be allowed to succeed in making money, or may have a legacy left to them, but it is likely God will keep you poor. God wants you to have something far better than gold, namely, a helpless dependence upon Him, that He may demonstrate His faithful love for you in supplying your needs day by day. God may let others be honored and put forward, and keep you hidden in obscurity in order to produce some fragrant fruit for His coming glory which can only be produced in the shade.
He may let others be great, but keep you small. He may let others do a work for Him and get the credit for it now. The reward for your work is held in the hands of Jesus and you will not see it until He comes. The Holy Spirit will put a strict watch over you with a jealous love. He will rebuke you for the little words and feelings or for wasting your time.
So make up your mind that God is an infinite Sovereign, and has a right to do as He pleases with His own. He does not owe you an explanation of these mysteries. But if you give yourself to be His child, He will wrap you up in a jealous love, and give you the precious blessings for those who belong, heart and soul, to Him.
Settle it forever, then, that you are to deal directly with the Holy Spirit. It is His option to tie your tongue, or chain your hand, or close your eyes in ways that He does not seem to use with others. And when you are so possessed by the living God that your heart delights over this peculiar, personal, private, jealous guardianship and management of the Holy Spirit over your life, you will have found the vestibule of Heaven.
Leonard Ravenhill
Karen, ya have e-mail :)
And as far as steroids go, they do have an impact on the moods and behaviors of people hence the term "Roid Rage"
SOTL,
Thanks for your kind words. I think it would be great for you all to worship together. Read Acts a bunch of times and ask the Holy Spirit to show you how the early church started then read the letters many times. The early NT
church is NOTHING like we see today.
Hint: See how many pastors you can name in each of the NT churches
sotl
You might even start with SHOCKING SERMON MERITS PREACHER BEING DIS-INVITED BACK by Paul Washer. It is a video and ought to get your group off to a tremendous start.
You might consider home church until you can all make some solide decisions?
OFG,
I guess you were sitting near me :)
Malco theater? Tread carefully!!!! Many on here have criticized Bellevue's gift to a prochoice church to rebuild after a fire. Yet, $35,000/yr of almost pure profit to Malco for using their facility would be ok???? Why does Malco exist? They exist simply to profit from the garbage that Hollywood puts out. Follow the money. Support Malco= Support Hollywood and all of the sin and garbage that goes with it- all the way to Washington. : )
SOTL...
Perhaps this is the new social gospel I keep hearing about? They worship a different Jesus. As Christians, people need to prioritize. Our children are not being presented with Jesus, but rather good times. Entertainment is the top billing whereas Jesus Christ should be the top billing. And this continues to manisfest.
Now, go ahead...beat me up.
Lin,
The Leonard Ravenhill post was wonderful! Thank you so much for sharing! I am going to keep it forever.
sick of the lies
guys, the post on here this afternoon have not been frm me
You know who is doing this.
INitials:
CS
someone has cloned my name
check the # of profile hits
Also, notice on MINE< i started mine in jan. of 07.
Cary and his buddies started theirs in March of 07.
Check the line that says "On Blogger since"....
the Real SOTL's reads Jan. 2007...the clone reads March 2007
an interesting article:
The dangers of the invitation sysytem
http://www.gracesermons.com/hisbygrace/invitation.html
truth rules,
Friend, you owe me an apology.
SOTL,
And here I was ready to attend church at Malco.
Cary, go away! And don't even think about taking me on, oh young one. You have no idea with whom you will mess. Threat, no - promise, yes.
karen
I'm offline now
I've got 785 hits and been on since 2006 so in case I get hijacked you guys can verify for me!
Dominoes here I come! YUMMY
Karen,
"I" did post about the Malco..and I still think it's a good idea for us all to meet together.
I admit that I did not fully think out the deal about Malco. I'm just brainstorming.
Anyone else have any other ideas?
please note:
A court order can produce your computer.
Thisis worth a read.
The semi-pelagian uses (abuses) John 6:37 to make his appeal. If you will repeat the sinner's prayer in a heartfelt way, God will hear and save you! He will tell you that, "God will not turn away anyone who comes to him in faith, He will make you a child of God if you will turn to him."
It is a fraudulent appeal because it assumes that the person will be saved by an "obligated" loving God. The evangelist has tricked the sinner and boxed in the "living" God. Since God will not be tricked the evangelist's god becomes a strange loving god.
The correction would have been for the preacher to read futher on in John 6:38-40 and know that it is the Father's will to give to Christ all that should be saved.
I saw this on the last post but there is no activity there so I am reposting it here:
onlyamember Said: "Jamie is the ONLY BBC staff member that called, prayed and ministered to the family of the teenaged girl that was handcuffed and arrested at BBC."
12:46 PM, March 26, 2007
____________
What!!!
A tenaged girl arrested at BBC what year?
What did they arrest her for?
Jamie Fish prayed for her?
He Jamie Fish ministered to her family??
There has to be a reason behind his caring for her.
For whoever in the world who reads this who is a Christian ( Believer in our LORD Jesus) if you are willing please pray for me.
The semi-pelagian will tell you, "God chose us so that we could choose him."
He will quote John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
He will tell you that God will make you his child IF you will turn to him. Again God is obligated to save the sinner because of the sinners' acknowledgement. Man's efforts are put before grace.
But he will refuse to read John 1:13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
not a member,
There are many reading this who are willing to pray for you. The majority do not post, but intercede on behalf of others as a regular part of their prayer life.
Could you perhaps share more about your situation? God knows your need, but we can better focus our minds if we know more. Are you in a crisis?
The semi-pelagian evangelist will probally refer to this old song:
“Whosoever heareth,” shout, shout the sound!
Spread the blessed tidings all the world around;
Spread the joyful news wherever man is found:
“Whosoever will may come.”
Refrain:
“Whosoever will, whosoever will,”
Send the proclamation over vale and hill;
’Tis a loving Father calls the wand’rer home:
“Whosoever will may come.”
Whosoever cometh need not delay,
Now the door is open, enter while you may;
Jesus is the true, the only Living Way:
“Whosoever will may come.”
“Whosoever will,” the promise secure,
“Whosoever will,” forever must endure;
“Whosoever will,” ’tis life forevermore:
“Whosoever will may come.”
Again the living God is obligated by deceit to be a loving God. God's free will is forfeited to man's free will.
At 3:36 PM, March 27, 2007
overflowinggrace said...
Ok...the car wreck is better. If 20 people are standing on the curb and 2 people say the wreck was caused by car #1 and 18 say it was caused by #2. It's a safe bet that car #2 is at fault.
junk99mail says...
Depends on the vantage point. 18 people could all be in one place and 2 in another, but the 2 had a better angle to view things from. (That's why the umpire in a baseball game stands behind the catcher and not in the stands--better perspective.)
From where I stand, though, it is more like everyone sees a different piece of the puzzle, and no one has it all right -- except God. Therefore it is best to keep focused on Him, the source of overflowing grace.
not a member of a church,
You are being prayed for.
The teenage girl was arrested at BBC because of a misunderstanding. We are not in a situation like in other parts of the world, where people are arrested because of their faith. Still, the concern that Jamie Fish showed to the family is the same concern that true Christians have for all of our brothers and sisters who suffer persecution in whatever situation they are in.
Know that the prayer support behind you is great!
SOTL, how was I to know? I am sorry, hope this doesn't damage our friendship.
watchinghisstory,
A question for you. Would you agree with the following statement?
"Salvation requires faith in Jesus Christ and repentance of sin."
AOG -
Thanks for the link.
The semi-pelagian pastor says: "When you 'come to Jesus', you are predestined to heaven."
But really pastor, "When we are predestined for heaven we come to Jesus."
Arn't we lost miserable sinners and perhaps we hear him say , "Come to me" and we obey his call.
junk99mail
As long as the faith is not of the flesh and will of man. The faith must be a gift in the power of God.
Karen,
Please email me,I can't access yours for some reason until you do. I Just have some minor info for you. Thanks. oc
not a member of a church said...
For whoever in the world who reads this who is a Christian ( Believer in our LORD Jesus) if you are willing please pray for me.
Would other bloggers care to affirm their prayer support for our fellow Christian in whatever circumstance they are in?
aog, about the link: Wow! Amen.
Hey, it would just be a return to our roots.
Not a member, would you e-mail me? Thanks. My e-mail is on the meta.
junk99mail
Are you born again by the will of the Father or by the will of man?
At 12:06 PM, March 27, 2007
aslansown said...
Karen,
Usually licensing follows ordination. The church ordains someone to the ministry by setting them aside to do this work and uaually in an open service after the candidate has convinced an ordination board that they are worthy of being set aprt to the work of The Gospel.
Licensing is carried out by the state and is a recognition that the person has been set apart by thier religious group or denomination.
junk99mail says...
I can't speak with certainty what is done in other denominations and countries, but in most Baptist churches in the U.S. (such as SB churches), licensing normally comes first. When a man senses that God is directing him to full-time vocational ministry (such as the pastorate), his church will normally affirm their agreement that God is at work in the man's life and desire to minister by "licensing" him. This is often done at the initiation of the church pastor or the deacons, and is accomplished via a congregational vote. The practice in the U.S. began in colonial days when most states had one of more officially recognized denominations, and licensing served as a way of for a man to be legally allowed to preach in public gatherings. In current practice, licensing serves as a church's initial confirmation of a man's call to ministry, and an encouragment for the man to begin to pursue the use of his gifts in preaching, teaching, ministering, etc.
At a later point, usually when the man has completed any preparations for full-time, vocational ministry (such as Bible college or seminary -- not necessarily required, but encouraged by most churches), and once he has started (or is about to start) in an official position of church service (pastor, associate pastor, etc.) the man is presented as a candidate for ordination. Ordination which is a more formal process involving the congregation's establishment of an "ordination council" (pastor, staff, deacons, godly leaders, etc.), which examines the man in terms of character and holiness (e.g., the qualificatons in Timothy & Titus), and also in terms of doctrinal correctness (the basics of historic Christian orthodoxy, such as the Trinity, deity of Christ, etc., plus the particular distincitives of the denomination, such as believer's immersion, etc.). If the ordination counsel is persuaded of the fruits of his life in these matters, they will make a report and recommendation to the congregation that he be ordained to gospel ministry. Then the ordination itself is normally performed via a congregational meeting and vote, with one or more sermons directed at both the congregation and the ministerial candidate, regarding their mutual obligations toward one another, culminating with the laying on of hands (by the ordained men of the church -- pastors and deacons)with prayers of blessing over the candidate. At this point the person is considered an "ordained minister" -- and for most states this (not licensing) is what is required for a man to be able to legally perform weddings, etc.
More than you ever wanted to know, I'm sure...
watchinghisstory,
Thanks for the response. In response to your question, "Are you born again by the will of the Father or by the will of man?" I affirm it is wholly the former and none of the latter. Not only for me, but for all who are born again. The will of man is in no way connected to, responsible for, or required for the new birth. Salvation, however, requires the willful choice to exercise the God-given gifts of faith and repentance granted via the new birth. This affirmative choice to repent and believe is the natural and necessary consequence of the new birth, but is in nonethless required for salvation. Agreed?
junk99mail
PTL!!!
off line
Truth,
Yeah, it's all good :)
not a member of a church said...
For whoever in the world who reads this who is a Christian ( Believer in our LORD Jesus) if you are willing please pray for me.
not a member,
As I said, many readers do not post messages to the blog. Still, they are aware of their duty to pray for you and other Christians.
In the words of Samuel,
As for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the LORD by failing to pray for you.
Whatever it is that you're facing, you're not alone.
Not a member: I have prayed for you as well.
Ok, on a lighter note this evening, I dreamed this afternoon during a nap ( hehe) that Derrick Calcotte invited everyone from the blog over to his house for a swimming party.
Derrick, do you have a pool? :)
SOTL,
I am glad the little dude is gone from your computer so you can post regularly. You're one of my favorite peoples! So when am I taking you, piglet, & Dee to lunch? :)
These links that Watchman put on here are so powerful. Be forewarned--if you are not truly saved, you will be offended. Of course, that should be your warning light to "get right or get left". The link for the Paul Washer message was posted at 3:48 PM. Listen to it. It's vital.
Jesus is Lord!
Dee
junk,
Well, since you ARE paying, let's go to J.Alexander's... :)
We might can spy on some folks while we are there, I hear that some BBC folks hang out there for lunch.
I'll bring my spy glasses.
SOTL,
J. Alexanders is fine! I was thinking Paulette's, Jim's Place East, or Folk's Folly, but if you wanna slum it, that's okay by me! Or maybe we should see what's available in New York, if we're gonna be spying! :)
SOTL: Don't forget your recorder. ;)
New York!!!
Now THERE's an idea!!!
We can do some REAL sleuthing while we are there.
SOTL,
P.S. I've seen more than once church renting the little conference center on Appling down the road from BBC (by the FedEx station), so maybe it is available. I bet you could find a decent preacher across the street--get a young preacher-boy and train him right! :)
Anyone,
Isn't Trinity Baptist the one started by First Baptist? If so, and unless there has been a major change of direction, I'd be concerned about that.
Trinity was started from a group of moderates from 1st Baptist...they are part of a new Baptist organization now I think.
lily, lindon,
Dr. Akin is really in tune with the problems in the SBC...he's made several statements of late that are right on the mark.
allofgrace.
Moderates? As in less liberal than First Baptist or as in less conservative than Bellevue Baptist? :) Didn't the pastor of First leave there to help start Trinity? Though he might have used the term moderate for himself, by BBC (and biblical) standards, theologically liberal would be more a more accurate term for his positions.
SOTL,
I really could swing J Alexanders, and as I said I would be honored, but I'm not up to funding trips for 4 to New York! Maybe I should switch careers and pastor a mega-church to make a higher salary! heh heh. With my personal moral failings, I just might be qualified! (I know, I am being mean and hateful.)
I love the people at Trinity! I worked there years ago and I do know they have women as deacons. That was always a sore spot for me because I think they started that while I was working there. Anyway, since I only worked there I didn't hear sermons or anything like that. I just dealt with people and they were great to me. The pastor was really sweet too, but I couldn't get past the women as deacons issue.
junk,
"moderate" is relative I suppose...that's what they were called at the time...my opinion is that "moderate" is PC for liberal.
They started Trinity because they were unhappy that the conservatives were in power in the SBC.
youthmomma: They are sweet but I couldn't get past the women deacons either.
SPIRIT LED OR PURPOSE DRIVEN ?
Spirit Led or Purpose Driven
Hello, friends,
What we talkin' bout Willis?
WE just watched BBC turn into a liberal church on Sunday when they voted to keep the status quo on the men who gave $25,000 for abortions and homosexuals, AND when they voted not to vote on the issue of sexual immorality amongst our pastors.
I'm going to have to pass on Trinity Baptist if they are a liberal church.
SOTL,
I think You're right.
Hello OC
Scroll up!! Derrick Calcotte has invited everyone over to his house for a swimming party!!
#578 at "you know where" has an iteresting take n the situation.
Yahoo! Give me the adress. BBC won't.
allofgrace,
Yes, the folks who started Trinity (like the folks at both First & Second Baptist) were unhappy about the swing of SBC leadership and agencies toward a more theologically conservative stance (meaning primarily a commitment to the inerrancy of scripture). But I don't think that had anything to do with why it was started, since the parent church shared the same liberal ideas. Trinity was started because the pastor of First and a good half of the congregation believed that First should relocate from the edge of Midtown somewhere further east, but the other half wanted to stay put...so they compromised and agreed to start another church, led by the pastor at First. It was basically a mutually agreed upon church split, done in a friendly fashion, so both sides got what they wanted. (I wish more churches in conflict could conduct themselves in that way!)
I am sure that many folks there, and the new pastor, are nice people, and that there fine, committed Christians there. But theologically it would be far from Bellevue's biblically-grounded roots. The music and culture however, are most likely more on the traditional side, as is the case in many of the most liberal Southern Baptist churches. (They don't seem to mind being liberal when it comes to belief in scripture, but they stick with tradition when it comes to worship styles!) This could mislead some folks from theologically conservative Baptist churches (who are unhappy with current trends in music, worship, and atmosphere) into thinking that the church is theologically sound, just because the atmosphere is more familiar and comfortable, the people are friendly, and they talk about familiar, traditional Baptist things like missions and RAs, GAs, ActTeens, & Mission Friends. :)
SOTL, Yeah,I know, I can't spell. But I can swim!
I was just laughing about SOTL's new "rumor" (that came from a dream! A DREAM!) about the swimming party at Derrick's, but then I really lost it when oc made the remark about the church not giving out his address! You two make a good comedy team! Glad I wasn't taking a drink of my Diet Rite at the time! :)
Re-Inventing The Church
A well researched analysis of the war onHistoric Christian Faith now being waged.
REINVENTING THE CHURCH
OC,
Well, then get your little froggie intertube and beach towel and ring the doorbell!! LOL
sickofdalies,
It looks as though you are using a new computer also. Are you the real you?
Junk,
Glad to be of service! :)
Diet Rite through the nose hurts, doen't it?
alanstown,
Wow! how did you know that I have a new computer?
I forgot when I got it, but yes, it's fairly new..I guess I have had it for a couple of months now.
SOTL,
What concerns me is that we can no longer trust whether a Baptist church is theologically sound and on the right track based on whether or not they would align themselves with the conservative belief in the innerancy of scripture ... at one point it was just assumed that those who claimed to believe that God's Word was absolute and innerant truth would consider it equally important to live personally according to the Word, and to conduct the church according to the Word. We are now into the "uncharted waters" where churches and pastors claim to believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, but consider obedience to it optional. Strange times indeed. Who knows, you might find more people concerned about obeying the Word at a place that doesn't talk so much about how much they believe it! Being as theologically conservative as I am, I NEVER thought I'd say something like that!
OH, Alan
Wait
I did not realize that Cary is up to his tricks again.
SOTL,
I would be on the way, except a.)_ I don't have the address, and b. Socwork never gave me the car I was promised!
sickofDAlies,
Why not just find a more unique username to avoid confusion altogether? I think we'd all appreciate it.
ooooo weeeeee ooooh!
That one was too easy sickofdalies
Cary
NO, your new name is NOT alright with me. It is designed to cause confusion, which is your specialty.
Dont' you have some little jr. high friends you can go hang out with and leave the adults alone to tend to adult business?
Run along, now.
Do remember that it was said of Aslan "He is dangerous, but good".
SOTL,
How did you know I had a froggie innertube? You been talkin' to someone? You better have gotten this on tape or I'll deny it. No, I never had a dream about my froggie! Never!
No, your not Cary, but you know him well.
cary
How pathetic!
A rare SMILE in the middle of battle
CHURCH LEADERS LEAVE WILLOW CREEK LEADERSHIP SUMMITT TO SPREAD MESSAGE
sickofdalies,
Please change your name. Its obvious that all your trying to do is cause trouble.
You don't have to meet someone in person to know them well.
DA-lies,
If you really want to post here, and if you really aren't Cary, I strongly suggest you get another, more unique username (and a much better attitude), or I am confident our moderator won't let you hang around for long. Just some friendly advice. SOTL is much loved here and you will get yourself nowhere in a hurry messing with her.
I guess sick has magical powers too. You guys should start a magic show! I will buy the first ticket!
You would be the first one I'd 'disappear'.
say SODL, got anything of substance to discuss or just hangin' around looking for something to do?
((((( junk )))))
NASS,
Off him.
cary,
I don't think everyone that disagrees with me is you, only the ones that are obviously VERY immature, in the 8 to 10 y/o range.
And even MORE satire based on TRUTH
The NEW Purpose Driven MESSAGE Bible
PD MESSAGE BIBLE
DA-lies,
Please read this, and take it to heart. This will change everything for you ...
http://www.mabts.edu/templates/
cusmabts/details.asp?id=23267&PID=68510
NASS,
Off him.
'I used to go to church but the hypocrites turned me off.'
Standard answer for a sissy.
oc,
And it isn't even true. He goes, he's there all the time.
But you would have to go to the jr. high department to find him.
SOTL,
I would find 'him' in the 'girls' department.? That shplains it!
DA-lies,
I have nothing more signficant to share than what God has already said, and there's nothing more I can do than He has already done. I'm sorry for the negative experiences you have had with the pretenders and wanna-bes of churches--we all fall so very short of what our Lord wants us to be. That's why we need His mercy, grace, forgiveness, and salvation. I pray that you will see past the ugliness of us, His imperfect followers, and see his beauty and perfection, and your desperate need for Him. I pray that God will give you the grace to embrace Jesus Christ, to flee from the coming wrath of God on those who do not obey His gospel and submit to His Lordship in repentance and faith. "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord."
All,
Take a breath, say a prayer for God to do His work.
WEll, folks, I"m going to go and read for a while.
OC, don't drown in Derrick's pool!!!
Folks, I don't even know if Derrick has a pool, and I don't even know Derrick. But maybe i'll dream tonight and be able to come up with more info on that swimming party!!! :)
night ya'll!!!
DA-lies,
Don't look at us. Just look at Him, crucified, wounded, bleeding, dying, taking our place, for our sins, giving His life and blood for our salvation. Look at His resurrection, His power, His glory, His ability to bring new life, even to our tattered souls. Trust Him, respond in faith to His mercy and love, repent of the sin that separates us all from Him. Then none of what anyone here has to say will matter.
SOTL,
Night, friend! {{{{SOTL}}}}
I gotta sleep, too...more judy duty tomorrow! I'll be glad when this is over!
I admit I'm a hypocrite. Now what?
Where are you? And I'll admit, I think you need some 'adjustment', and I'd like to be the one to 'adjust' you. Just being honest, no 'hypocrite' about it. But you, like me, have to answer to the One who will adjust it all. And He will do it. Believe that.
You shouldn't be worrying about me.
junk99mail said...
SOTL,
What concerns me is that we can no longer trust whether a Baptist church is theologically sound and on the right track based on whether or not they would align themselves with the conservative belief in the innerancy of scripture ... at one point it was just assumed that those who claimed to believe that God's Word was absolute and innerant truth would consider it equally important to live personally according to the Word, and to conduct the church according to the Word. We are now into the "uncharted waters" where churches and pastors claim to believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, but consider obedience to it optional. Strange times indeed. Who knows, you might find more people concerned about obeying the Word at a place that doesn't talk so much about how much they believe it! Being as theologically conservative as I am, I NEVER thought I'd say something like that!
11:37 PM, March 27, 2007
(The ministers of Bellevue under the legacy of Rogers) have not yet been made acquainted with the "mysteries of iniquity" in the communion in which they have been trained, and they do not suspect the deceptions that are practiced there.
Semi-pelagianism does not aquaint one with the "mysteries of iniquity" and leaves the spirit of self determination to do his work of corruption.
11:29 AM, March 27, 2007
This is the life line, oh, grasp it today!
See, you are recklessly drifting away;
Voices in warning, shout over the wave,
O grasp the strong life line, for Jesus can save.
That lifeline better have one of these on the end of it!
Dexter 4" Stainless Steel Meat Hook
then when you reel it in what are you going to do with the catch?
baptize it
Hello All,
Thanks for the information on Trinity Baptist. I guess I'll have to dig deeper than what's on their website for my next church.
I'm listening to KLOVE online and I thought this song was a good way to start the day:
Third Day - Agnus Dei
From the album Exodus
Alleluia, Alleluia
For our Lord God Almighty reigns
Alleluia, Alleluia
For our Lord God Almighty reigns
Holy, Holy
Are you Lord God Almighty
Worthy is the Lamb
Worthy is the Lamb
You are holy
Holy
Are You Lord God Almighty
Worthy is the Lamb
Worthy is the Lamb
Amen
A look inside the door of the Beast that is transitioning and restructuring and undermining Churches in the " name of god".
HOW TO CHANGE AND TRANSITION A CHURCH---CHURCH TRANSITIONS WEB SITE
If you havent had your morning cup of coffee,..this should wake you up..
STEPS TO TRANSITION A CHURCH AND THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LEADERS CHEERING THIS ON
John 16: 1-4
1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. F30 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. 4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
watchman,
Could you pass along the following message to James Sundquist? Thanks.
aslansown said...
To James Sundquist:
Sir,
I usually pass over your comments because I feel that they are generally inflammatory and narrow minded, but as I was reviewing the comments from yesterday I find your equation of DR. Gaines with Hannaniah beyond the pale. You need to consider not posting here again as your comments ADD nothing to the discussion of a positive nature.
It is not Christlike to ask God to kill someone just because you disagree with them. Even if you think that they are failing in their responsibilities regarding leadership, you pray desperately that God will change them and approach them in love to challenge them to do right. See Galations 3 for Paul's dealings with Peter's heresy for a scriptural basis.
You, sir, owe the posters on this blog, Dr Gaines and the people of Bellevue an appology.
10:30 AM, March 27, 2007
Watching history, (I cannot use the HIStory you prefer, because I do not believe you are)
I see no reason that you would be attacking a dead man other than you have a bone to pick with him and you can't. Since he has gone home to glory, why don't you wait until you get there and discuss it with him instead of dishonoring his name with unsubstantiated attacks. What you are doing is devisive and does not serve the purpose of this blog. You will never, ever get any of us to dishonor Dr Rogers or his family. He has given his life for the simple phrase "Come to Jesus". You cannot say that you are in pursuit of the same goal, or you would not be promoting your own agenda here, therefore you have no place here. Get over yourself and dedicate your life to the same goal and you will be well received here.
Easy to understand CHART detailing the deliberate and ongoing
TRANSITIONING OF THE CHURCH
TRANSITIONING THE CHURCH CHART
This is from the link on Watchman's 9:10 post:
"Target - from reaching believers to reaching the unchurched."
Piglet says:
There you have it, folks. They don't want to edify the saints. They want us out!!!! Just where do they want us to go, pray tell???
Why, oh why can't they start their own churches instead of throwing us out of ours????
All this talk of camparing Gaines to Nehemiah building the wall just nauseates me.
Gaines has torn down this church. He has yet to build anything.
He has beaten his own workers and run them off.
He is not committed to BBC or he wouldn't be running off and preaching everywhere else instead of BBC on Wednesday nights.
He is a poor example to us and our children. Nowhere in scripture did Nehemiah lie, disobey God's or man's law, put children in danger, or throw tantrums.
Somebody needs to rip the book of Nehemiah out of this man's Bible.
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