Please move down six threads to the "MABTS Emergency Board Meetings" topic to find the contact information for Mr. Gene Howard and let him know of your support for the seminary and Dr. Mike Spradlin.
Also, call the church at 901-347-2000 and MABTS at 901-751-8453 to let them know you support MABTS and Dr. Spradlin. Ask if Bellevue has plans to withdraw any funding from the seminary.
There's a link for a page with instructions for adding a "linkable" link to a comment in the list of links to your right. Please check it out!
Don Boys certainly did his research for this one.
Recap of previous coverage:
The latest from Christian Worldview Network is here.
This blogger, wbishop1213, has a couple of interesting entries here. See December 23rd and 26th.
Mondaymorninginsight.com has articles here and here.
The last three Commercial Appeal articles are here. Letters to the editor appeared on the 21st, 22nd, 23rd, and 30th and are available through links on this page.
Channel 3's coverage is here and here.
Channel 5's coverage is here, here, here, here, and here.
FOX Channel 13's coverage is here and has links to other stories and the Wednesday night statement in the sidebar.
Channel 24 made this brief mention of the story.
The Baptist Blogger wrote a nice article about Mrs. Joyce Rogers here.
EthicsDaily.com has articles here, here, and here.
Several Bellevue threads are going in the baptistlife.com "SBC News and Trends" section.
The December 19th Associated Baptist Press article is here.
The Baptist Press article from December 20th is here.
The December 20th Agape Press article is here.
Bloggers Wade Burleson and Dr. Danny Chisholm have also written about Bellevue.
Another article is here.
Read the latest (December 27th) from the former "formerly brainwashed Bellevuer" aka "never put your faith in men!" A link to his blog, "Bellevue Baptist Church - My True Story" is in the sidebar on this page.
WCRV Radio (AM 640) interviewed Dr. Michael Spradlin, President of MABTS, on Thursday. The 30-minute interview can also be accessed here.
Bellevue's website now has the 12-17 and 12-19 statements by Steve Gaines and the video from the 12-20 Wednesday night service here and a description of the Christmas Eve morning and evening services here.
434 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 434 of 434friendinjax wrote:
This is the problem I see with many of the "mega church" pastors these days....they have unchecked authority to make unilateral decisions.
friend,
I think you stated a far greater problem, if it's true:
friendinjax wrote:
The reason was that the church worshiped the Pastor as much as they worshipped God.
Wow!
friendinjax: Thank you for your clarification regarding Trinity not being in the SBC. It is still a horrific situation and the average person probably would not know that difference between independent and SBC...they would just hear "Baptist." Regardless, my prayers are with the victim. We can't see pastors as gods......they are only supposed to be God's representative. And when they cease preaching God's word and acting as God would have them act, they are no longer His representative. He ceases to be a pastor when he does the work of man instead of the work of God.
faithnhope,
I agree I would prefer to have more answers and less questions. However, uncovering truth usually starts with a question.
Mike Bratton,
For once we are almost in total agreement. Almost because I have almost no confidence in the internal investigation and will wait to see the actions of the DA's office. It may turn out different and I hope that it does, but the internal investigation seems to be predictable in these situations according to David Brown. It is kind of like the Chicago Bears playing Houston Jr. High. That is just my opinion and the field might be quite a bit more level than I believe.
I do believe that we will have more solid information to base our opinions on by the end of January or the first part of February.
concernedsbcer,
One of the videos specifically showed and spoke about a letter that a woman had received signed by Messer that would indicate that he had knowledge of these events, long before the news media began investigating. If you did not watch all three of them, I believe it was the 11:00 report that showed this.
Good Morning everyone :)
Sometimes, it's much easier to see a situation more clearly when we are watching it from a distance, instead of being caught up in it.
I would venture that those same folks that are applauding SG would also find Tom Messer's actions reprehensible.
I will pray that they have at least a small amount of discernment that would lead them to understand that as long as they support SG, THEY are part of the problem.
faithnhope,
I believe that the reason that many pastors have the ability to
... have unchecked authority to make unilateral decisions,
... is because the church worships those pastors as much or more than they worship God.
The only annointed of God that is and ever will be equal to God in authority, power and righetousness is Jesus.
Mike Bratton said...
People, this is the sort of junk that has to go out the window.
Never mind the reprehensible personal insults--either God's sovereign, or He isn't. If you can't show even a thimble's worth of patience for the current internal investigation, think about what your impatience infers.
It infers that Bellevue's staff and lay leadership is corrupt, top to bottom and stem to stern. And that it has been utterly corrupt long enough to put people in place who would cover up facts and impede an impartial investigation.
Either take the high road or don't make the trip.
And just for the record--God is sovereign. :)
*****************************************
Mike,
I just had to respond to your post--and in no way is this meant to be hateful or insulting to you.
I'm copying a post that I made on Dec. 30. (It was a lengthy post, so I'm going to condense it a little.) This will be the last time I plan to re-post it, and if you've already read it, I apologize:
Let me just say, I, too, am a survivor of incest. My step-father was a deacon in our Baptist church, and he molested me from the time I was 3 yrs. old unitl I was 12,(when I ran away.) My mother knew and did nothing. When I was 10yrs. old, I couldn't take it any more, and told a school counselor. Of course, it all blew up in my face. Our family had to undergo "counseling" with our church Pastor, who blamed my mother for not being a good wife, and me for "ENTICING" my step-father. We ended our sessions with my mother and I having to APOLOGIZE to my step-father and telling him we loved him. He remained a deacon in that church for as long as we attended there. The thing that I remember the most vividly about the whole situation, was when my step-father was initially confronted with the accusations, he became enraged and yelled at me, "Where's your forgiving spirit, CHRISTIAN!!!???" Need I point out that he continued abusing for another two years following our "Godly Counseling". OK, enough personal details.
My husband and I came to bellevue about 5 yrs. ago and attened PW's BFC for several years. We have sat under PW's teaching about marriage, child-rearing, making Christ LORD, etc... I also had to be "counseled" by PW because I checked the "yes" box when questioned about prior abuse.
I guess emotionally why I'm so disgusted at the way SG handled the situation and why these standing "O"s turn my stomach is because when I saw SG get behind the pulpit and "address" the issue concerning PW and heard him say that he had known since JUNE, I felt betrayed all over again by a Pastor who , having not "just fallen of the turnip truck," should have known the Biblical mandates as to how to handle such a situation--not to mention just having the common sense to at least seek Godly counsel if he was so stunded or confused by the situation!
I can't look at SG's face as he speaks anymore, much less give him an "O"--All I can see is the face of PW's precious little boy as I look at the face of my own darling son, (with his dimples and freckles, and his missing front tooth,)and I can see in my mind the image of PW's baby crying and begging him to please stop. I know the fear that PW's son probably felt any time his mother had to leave him alone with his father for any reason, (I remember begging my Momma not to leave me with "him", and the terror and dread that would wash over me as I would watch her walk out the door,) and I can imagine the DISGUST that PW's son must have felt every time he watched his father get behind the pulpit to lead in prayer or teach others about Jesus. And now, PW's son and his son's family are going to have to live with the stigma and sometimes overwhelming memories of the past. Maybe I'm getting too graphic here, and if so, NBBCOF, please delete my post.
Personally, I don't believe for a minute that SG is ignorant in matters concerning Biblical principals in how to handle such matters. 1 COR. 5 spells it out VERY clearly and answers any who continue to say "Who am I to judge--I have sinned in my life," "We should forgive PW--it happened so long ago--and he HAS BEEN IN COUNSELING, after all!" I believe SG made a foolish decision in direct oppostion to scripture, and yes, I DO expect more than that from my pastor! I'm sure some will say that I'm just spewing hate and anger--I hope that's not how I come across.
And one other thought--I know we are all so angered and disturbed by the fact that SG put our children in harm's way--as well we should be. But, we should all be equally concerned that SG, in many instances, has gone against the instructions found in God's Word since he's been at Bellevue.
I'm going to copy 1 Cor. 5. I'm not a Biblical scholar, but it just doen't seem that God could have been any clearer in this matter. If I am not correctly understanding this passage, I would appreciate any other interpretations!
1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, ...
2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
3 For I, on my part, ... have already JUDGED him who has so committed this, as though I were present.
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? ................
9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called BROTHER if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.
*****************************************
Ok, Mike---
First of all, what does God's sovereignty have to do with someone being angry that the situation with PW was not handled according to scripture?I'm not saying that in a sarcastic way--I really don't get the point.
I just wanted to point out to you why being "patient" for the outcome of the investigation is not an issue for me. How I view the way the situation with PW was handled by SG doesn't hinge upon the outcome of the investigation. I know all I need to know NOW to make a scriptural determination that things were handled incorrectly by SG. As far as the investigation goes, the details of who knew what and when,the specifics regarding the abuse--such as when, how many times, how many victims, how much counseling was received, who received the counseling, who did the counseling. etc.--all of these facts may lead to further consequences for some. But the fact that SG STATED that PW confessed in JUNE to him (SG) the fact that the sin had occurred, (even IF it was one time-17 yrs. ago,) is all I need to make a judgement concerning the issue.
As far as implying that some of the leadership at BBC may be "utterly corrupt long enough to put people in place who would cover up facts and impede an impartial investigation,"-- Mike, unfortunately I have seen first hand and I've heard too many other accounts of corruption among people who we look to for love, leadership, guidance, and protection. I have been betrayed by enough corrupt leaders to be in a position to require much more than just "their word" before I am able to fully trust them.
And as far as taking the "high road" or not making the trip--Mike, I, as well as MANY others in our church, have been dragged down a road we would have gladly NOT gone down by the actions of "godly" people in our lives. I'm probably speaking for others as well as myself when I tell you that when you've been abused, you have a VERY difficult time blindly trusting people--especially when they have given the impression of wrongdoing or deception.
Having been abused in the past does not give anyone a free pass to wallow in anger or unforgiveness--but I hope that you will try to understand that these things do surface at times, and it is an ongoing work in progress of the Lord's love,healing, and restoration in our hearts.
I hope this has made some sense to you, brother--I truly do not mean ANY of it to appear as an attack on you!
I just thought it might help you and some others here to see things from a little different point of view.
Tim,
"I have almost no confidence in the internal investigation and will wait to see the actions of the DA's office. It may turn out different and I hope that it does, but the internal investigation seems to be predictable in these situations according to David Brown"
Just a clearifying question: Have you heard anything from the internal investigation and I missed it?? (no tones, accusations or anything to be read in this post other than the question stated) Hate having to do a disclaimer on anything, just making sure it is read as it is meant.
More about my previous post about THEM being part of the problem.
While they continue to worship SG in spite of his cover up, do they think that he would be more or less inclined to report a pedophile the next time it happens?
I"m thinkin his thought process would be:
"hey, i got away with it before, why should i stick my neck out this time?"
Only problem: the 'next' time might involve THEIR kid!!!
Praying, I am not speaking for Bratton, he speaks for himself, but I believe the comment you quoted from him is one where he posted on all the questions about MD, not about SG or PW. At leats that is how I read his post.
fedupatbbc,
Seeing a situation like is unfolding in Jacksonville also, gives us the opportunity to see another reason why the congregation often supports their pastor. "It seems like the right thing to do."
However, it can only be known to be the right or wrong thing to do in consideration of the facts. Many people have chosen to do what seems right without considering the facts, just as it appears to have happened in Jacksonville. Those are the people who I personally am most disappointed in. (Actually far beyond disappointed, but I wanted to measure my words.)
Many other people do not feel that they have enough facts at this point and are reserved in their opinions until they do. I believe that we have several that post that are of that persuasion and I do respect them in that, although it may not always be apparent. I realize that on occasion I can be offensive to these people and apologize for trying to force my opinions upon them.
Finally, there are people, like you and I that believe that the fact that this was known for six months without any definitive action being taken is enough to formulate an opinion. Unfortunately, once an opinion has been reached to the effect that there is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed, it is easy to become overly zealous and passionate about the issue. I am beyond doubt the most guilty of anyone that post in that regard.
There have been two particular people that I am extremely grateful for that encouraged me to bring my zeal and passion under control and speak the truth in love. They may or may not even be aware of who they are, but I do see them from time to time and sincerely intend on thanking them face to face.
Tim, I did see all three videos and I guess that's why I am confused as to why Messer is still the pastor wth no apparent consequences, either from the church or from a legal standpoint.
Memphis,
Thanks for the heads-up...
I went back to Mike's post at 8:41am today.
I think He wrote that in response to a post from "inthepew" with regards to the SG and PW incident. I didn't see anything havind to do with MD. (?) If I didn't read his post correctly-I apologize. Either way, I do hope Mike understands what I'm trying to share with him. ;-)
memphis,
I have not heard anything from the internal investigation, but base my opinion upon the evidence that David Brown has brought up concerning such internal investigations.
Also, I believe that the only investigation that is going to be truly impartial will be the DCS investigation, their goal is to protect children not the church. Unfortunately the DCS investigation, according to what I understood from David Brown, will not be made public but will go to the DA's office to make a determination concerning criminal charges. The only thing that would then become public information would be court proceedings.
That could cause this entire mess to carry out for an undeterminable period of time. Also, it is highly possible that their not be enough evidence to file criminal charges even if there is a huge problem.
Bottom line to all that we may currently have all of the facts that we will ever have.
Praying, I could be wrong as well....
Tim, I believe yu are correct that we will have to wait for the DA to make a statement. They are a tight lipped bunch, and they should be. Also, believe it or not, I am glad that we have both doing an investigation in to this.
The only thing I really expect from the internal investigation would be that PW is no longer on staff at BBC.
libertyinchrist: I'm not sure I see the relevance here about Mac Brunson and a former church member at FBC Dallas and the "purpose-driven agenda". I am a member at FBC Jacksonville where Mac Brunson is pastor, and the only reason I brought Mac Brunson up in THIS blog is because he is still having Steve Gaines as a featured speaker (at least as of now - we hope he decides to change his mind). I sure hope that this doesn't turn into a "let's tell all that's wrong with Mac Brunson and the purpose-driven agenda" blog. I have plenty to say about the similarities between the Rogers-Gaines and Vines-Brunson transitions, but this really isn't the place for it.
memphis,
If nothing else we are in agreement that PW should no longer be on staff. I honestly believe that we would be in agreement on a multitude of things apart from these circumstances. I applaud your efforts to remain civil and ask for your and others forgiveness in failing to do so (at times failing miserably).
However, that being said I retain my right to invoke my sense of humor. I'll just try to keep it from being too personal.
RE: Bob Gray and Trinity Baptist and the typical distinctions between Independent Baptist churches and SBC.....
I am literally shocked at the Bob Gray situation. I knew him in another life and visited his church and participated in a Sunday service because he had offered me a position on his staff. He was a very gifted preacher. That was over 30 years ago. At that time I came to the conclusion that vocational ministry was not my calling.
His church was very much pastor led as were the majority of independent Baptist churches I was familiar with. Deacons were simply window dressing.
I found the excesses and even abuses by pastors was more than I could handle.
Thank God it never affected my faith. A church custodian who had lived thru a beloved pastor's downfall told me that 'just because I find that the local gas station owner has been cheating me doesn't mean that I'll quit buying gas, I'll just go down the street to the next gas staion.'
When only pastors pray in public services and control all interaction with the congregation, then we tend to become observers only and not active participants in the life of the church. To me it is an implied spiritual superiority.
When SG first appeared on the scene, for me it was a flashback to a church life that didn't work for me.
Maybe I need to become a Quaker! :)
mike bratton wrote:
Either take the high road or don't make the trip.
There's a reason to take the high road.
For Steve Gaines to be dismissed, the congregation will have to be won over. It won't be easy or immediate, but by behaving in a Christlike manner it can be done. (And I'm not saying that Christlikeness means inactivity, either.) These are our Christian brothers and sisters, and they WILL respond to Christ's love when they see it.
When me and my sister started posting, we were impressed by the strange mixture of love and hate, wisdom and ignorance we saw. After several put-downs, Hope swore off reading any further. Now I'm starting to agree with her. Why?
fedupatbbc wrote:
While they continue to worship SG in spite of his cover up, do they think that he would be more or less inclined to report a pedophile the next time it happens?
So just because I don't want to lynch my pastor I'm worshiping him?!? I don't stand and clap for him, and I'm willing to wait for the DA to do his job! If he fails, I know that God will handle it in HIS time! (He doesn't work according to our schedule by the way.)
WORSHIP SG??? fedup, who do you think you are? How dare you say that about your brothers and sisters? I am insulted, angry, and FED UP!
If I feel this way, how do you think others feel? When people visit and find themselves being called sick, perverts, idiots, terrorists, idolaters, and worse, what will they think?
Are they being convinced that there are serious problems at church and we're credible, or are they seeing that the communications committe was right to ask members to avoid the blog? What do they think of our Christian character. I'd say "fedup" has done more to support the BBC leadership's cause than anyone who sheepishly goes along with the crowd and applauds.
Let's say I'm a typical member. I'm starting to have doubts. I visit savingbellevue, and find myself here. What do I find? Answers? NO! That I'm an idiot, sick, and worshiping a man. Since I'm none of those things, what am I going to conclude? What happens to the critical issues then?
I look forward to the day when God restores our church to the glory He wants it to have. I'll be praying that all of the fine, godly folks I've corresponded with will continue to grow in the Lord. I'll also pray that those who so clearly need to turn from their unrighteous anger will do so.
God bless each of you,
Faith Jackson
Tim, as I have told others on this blog through emails, I can understand and appreciate the passion you have. I am not your enemy, nor do I hold anything against you, I know we have had "disagreements" in the past, but I am over it!
One reason I think blogs are not the ideal place to discuss things is that tone is so hard to convey in the written form. (Which is why I added a disclaimer earlier)
But please believe that I hold nothing against anyone here for whatever "side" they are on, and just becasue we disagree on one or two things, does not mean we do not agree on one or two other things.
memphis said...
"The only thing I really expect from the internal investigation would be that PW is no longer on staff at BBC."
I wouldn't be so sure of that if I were you - things have a way of "spinning" at BBC. This is a "wait and see game of cat and mouse" they are playing. Just be careful about falling into the mix of things without comparing the outcome against the light of the Word.
LibertyinChrist,
That chart is... interesting.
I wouldn't exactly call it proof of anything. Someone's opinion definitely, but proof? Not so much.
I don't want to resurrect the argument, because at this point, it is really off topic from the point of this blog. Suffice it to say, you are free to have your opinion about psychology (or whatever), but please call it what it is: your opinion. And I will do the same.
I speak from personal experience that psychologists and therapists can be Bible-believing Christians, ok?
Faith..
If you are not one of the ones standing and applauding a man who has ADMITTED harboring a pedophile for 6 months, then the quote didn't apply to you, did it?
When the throngs of people FOOLISHLY stand and HOOP and HOLLER when SG walks to the platform, what do YOU call it?
And you ask who i am? I'll tell you.
I am a sinner saved by grace. I am an adult survivor of incest, whose stomach is turned every time i hear of the applause for SG for harboring a pedophile.
It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not. Becuase that is how i feel...And you don't get to say that's it's not ok for me to feel that way. Every single person on this blog who has been sexually abused feels this way.
So, I'm going to quote something that Steve GAines has said to us,
" if you don't like OUR blog, don't read OUR blog. Go to another blog."
Thanks.
eprov said...
RE: Bob Gray and Trinity Baptist and the typical distinctions between Independent Baptist churches and SBC.....
I have Bob Gray's signature in my Bible, and that of his late wife as well, so I know exactly what you are talking about. Independent Baptist Churches are well known to let fallen pastors resume their pastorates after an alloted period of time has passed. When we changed to an SBC church, we were told that if you commit a sin that would affect your position as a leader, you can be forgiven, but never restored to a leadership position EVER. I would think that this would be the case here, but things are changing rapidly.
I would think that PW could never serve even in a lay position with his history, but according to Steve Gaines, we must set his history aside?? Is this line of thinking scripturally correct??
fedupatbbc,
I wish I could say that I understand completely, but I cannot because I have never been subjected to any type of abuse. None. The only empathy that I have whatsoever is what is offered thru the Spirit and to know that when one member of the body hurts, it effects all members of the body. My spirit bares witness with you and although I cannot feel your pain, I do share it.
I know these are only words, but it is all that I have to convey my heart.
Tim,
Thanks for your kind words.
I'm doing ok. :)
Jesus loves me, and I am the daughter of a KING!!
:)
concernedSBCer said...
I just watched the video from Trinity. Sounds eerily familiar.
Yes it does.
And what about the secretaries......didn't they think it odd when he locked the door with young children in there?
I wondered this same thing. And what about the SS teachers...and what about the parents? Why would they let their young daughters go into ANY closed door / locked office without supervision?
Again, the SBC has got to reevaluate their leadership. What a black eye for us all.
Why do we have to belong to the SBC?
8:41 AM, January 04, 2007
Tim said...
Mike Bratton,
For once we are almost in total agreement. Almost because I have almost no confidence in the internal investigation and will wait to see the actions of the DA's office. It may turn out different and I hope that it does, but the internal investigation seems to be predictable in these situations according to David Brown. It is kind of like the Chicago Bears playing Houston Jr. High. That is just my opinion and the field might be quite a bit more level than I believe.
I do believe that we will have more solid information to base our opinions on by the end of January or the first part of February.
9:50 AM, January 04, 2007
My expectations are different from yours, Tim, as I expect the internal investigation to be fruitful and revelatory, and ultimately beneficial. However, if their report is that everything's just fine, well...
I would suggest that it's helpful that a separate investigation by the DCS is being conducted. Accountability is a strong motivation to do the right thing, were anyone tempted to do otherwise.
prayingcolossians1 said...
...
And as far as taking the "high road" or not making the trip--Mike, I, as well as MANY others in our church, have been dragged down a road we would have gladly NOT gone down by the actions of "godly" people in our lives. I'm probably speaking for others as well as myself when I tell you that when you've been abused, you have a VERY difficult time blindly trusting people--especially when they have given the impression of wrongdoing or deception.
I understand that better than you might imagine. I would also encourage you to remember that we have present responsibilities to focus on the here-and-now, rather than on the way-back-when. We must be watchful against defining ourselves by our past traumas (or letting them unduly color our perceptions), and instead be defined by our past, present, and future relationship with Jesus Christ.
Our Lord suffered in ways we cannot comprehend, yet when He showed His scars, He did so out of encouragement and love. What has injured us in the past cannot injure us in the present--and what others meant for evil, God ultimately means for good.
Having been abused in the past does not give anyone a free pass to wallow in anger or unforgiveness--but I hope that you will try to understand that these things do surface at times, and it is an ongoing work in progress of the Lord's love,healing, and restoration in our hearts.
I understand.
I hope this has made some sense to you, brother--I truly do not mean ANY of it to appear as an attack on you!
Wouldn't have thought otherwise--and thank you for sharing.
I just thought it might help you and some others here to see things from a little different point of view.
10:30 AM, January 04, 2007
Much obliged, and God bless you.
--Mike
bellevue friend,
Something else that few seem to have realized. Bellevue Baptist Church has not had a church squabble (lack of any better words) of any magnitude for around 50 years. Some of us have never been involved in a potentially dividing issue within a church in our lives (I am one) and the confussion of the situation is extremely disturbing.
whoa..I had to go back and check myself.
I thought that I had said, "I feel your pain."
I was going to die on the spot if I had said anything that even resembled a comment made by Bill Clinton.
For the record I said, "although I cannot feel your pain, I do share it."
Tim,
:)
What mattered was the gist of your words, and your Christian love came thru, loud and clear.
However, i would have ' felt your pain' had you quoted BC.
:)
faithnhope said...
For Steve Gaines to be dismissed, the congregation will have to be won over. It won't be easy or immediate, but by behaving in a Christlike manner it can be done. (And I'm not saying that Christlikeness means inactivity, either.) These are our Christian brothers and sisters, and they WILL respond to Christ's love when they see it.
God bless each of you,
Faith Jackson
11:26 AM, January 04, 2007
I do agree with you, Faith. My husband and I are of differing opinions as to this whole ordeal. Probably I am not looking at it objectively, but rather subjectively. My thinking more than likely is clouded by the fact that incest, physical and verbal abuse was recurrent in my home while growing up for 15 years by a Southern Baptist choir director father!
I do believe we need to use our minds to search out truth for ourselves though and not blindly accept the propaganda that’s thrown at us. God did not tell us to quit using our minds when we were born again – quite the contrary – we are to renew our minds.
I would like nothing better than for all the investigations to reveal that this was a huge misunderstanding; that they never was, in fact, an incestuous abuse by PW towards his son. I would like for the investigations to reveal that this was blown out of proportion – I would gladly be made wrong. I would immediately apologize and ask forgiveness for believing a lie! I would willingly admit it in front of the congregation of our church. In other words, I would rather be wrong than to have had PW’s son abused by him and having SG retaining him on staff after it was confessed!
I would rather be the fool than for any of this to be true!!!
PLEASE MOVE UP TO THE NEWEST THREAD AND CONTINUE YOUR DISCUSSION THERE. I'LL POST A NEW TOPIC HEADING LATER TODAY.
Thanks,
NBBCOF
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