Thursday, January 04, 2007

Crystal Ball?

Please continue your discussions here.

I was shocked to learn this morning that this little corner of Blogland is being blogged about all over.

Thanks to "bin wonderin" for that information.

Someone with the screen name "closetotheinnercircle" posted this series of comments this week raising some insightful questions and making some interesting predictions. Now, this person doesn't have the track record of "blessmewiththetruth" and "uturn" (remember them?), but if anyone has any knowledge of any of the things this person posted, the floor is yours.

This is not an attempt to spread rumors, and while it may have been "close's" intent to do just that, it is not my intent here. Please limit discussion of the issues listed to facts or at least make it clear if you're only speculating about something. In other words, please refrain from running amok.

456 comments:

1 – 200 of 456   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Good Morning NASS and ALL,

Although this is not about the Crystal Ball...it is nevertheless close. I have copied and pasted to provide you with an article that you need to read. It is about the labryinth...to continue a discussion we had last night. I am stunned with the information provided me last night from some of you at the number of churches in the Memphis area that have these labryinths either in their churches or on the grounds, or both. I am even more stunned that plans have been underway to put one in Bellevue in the new prayer center. This is New Age, Mysticism, the Occult, Contemplative Spirituality/Prayer...need I go on? Folks...this really takes you out there to a realm that Christians don't belong. So...please do yourselves a great service and read this:

http://www.eternalpath.com/labyrinth.html

I am sorry I can't link you to it myself. Either I can't figure that out or it isn't possible? Either would be applicable. :)

I am curious as to whose idea it was at Bellevue to do this? Do any of you know?

New BBC Open Forum said...

ima,

Try this. :-)

youthmomma said...

I just read this article. PLEASE tell me that it's a rumor one was to be built on Bellevue property!!! Who would approve such a thing?

Anonymous said...

NBBOF

Hey girl! You are brilliant! :)

Everybody...save yourself the trouble and go to NBBOF's link! That is the one I posted.

Spooky isn't it?

Thanks...NBBOF
(Why can't I do that?)

Just My Opinion said...

mom4 writes: "Sorry JMO, the operative word is "some" and I do have psychological training - to a very large degree I may add. Do you?"

Yes I do. I have a Masters in Psychology. I consult national companies on the way to market their products to consumers. I have over 30 years of insight into understanding consumers. I have observe individuals and groups as to their thought process and decision making process thousands of times. I've received national recognition for my works and findings. I do understand human behavior and have enough understanding to resist making observations from afar. Additionally I have a doctoral in marketing so you can call me Doctor if you'd like.;^)

mom4 continued - "I can recognize a narcissistic pastor in a heartbeat - if you do not see it at this point (it is blatantly obvious), perhaps you need to ask the Lord to remove the scales from your eyes."

Blatantly obvious and you say you have training in psychological matters? And the wooden object from yours.

Additionally, the reference to "Some" doesn't constitute a relief that you were stating fact whereby you could not be in a position to foster that opinion. The point still remains that NASS has constantly asked for factual posts, yet suppositions are written as if they are facts.

ezekiel said...

Folks, I checked out early last night. Looks like I missed some good discussion minus the usual hate filled back and forth, tit for tat...Good Show!

Catching up this morning I have an observation to make, looking at the consensus of what was said last night.

First, we have concern for aging men of God, Leaders and who will replace them. Where are we headed as SBC, or God's people, Israel as it was then, is today. What are we going to do now?

FOLKS, WE STILL SEARCH FOR A KING!
Israel was doing the same thing when Jesus walked the earth and We are still doing the same thing today! OUR KING IS HERE, HE WALKS IN HIS KINGDOM AND AMONG HIS PEOPLE EVERY DAY! He is in your heart!

Tim and Mom4 as many of the rest of us wonder where our spine is, why our deacons will not stand. It is up to each of us to stand on the Word of God! How can we stand on something we don't know? The job we have to do as I see it is to get into the Word, study it, abide in Him and He will abide in us. We are not all cut out to go up to the church and haul SG out on the steps. But you can rest assured that some among us are!

I just read 1 Samuel up to where David slays Goliath. I suggest you read it and soon! Saul was annointed king of Israel because they wanted it, not because God did. Saul lost his annointing only 2 years into his reign but God continued to use him to fight the phillistines for many years. David was chosen to be king before Saul lost his annointing and was in training in Saul's own kingdom for years. David was annointed king in secret, many years before he began to serve as king.

I say all this to make this point. It is our job to put our eyes on Jesus and obey His commandments and statutes. OBEY HIM! God will raise up the leaders He wants and will fight the battle against sin (phillistines) for us! Leaders are already annointed! OBEY GOD.

Stop running around looking for a leader, let God choose him, arm him and send him into battle. Just stand on the Word! If we don't correct our mindset and throw off the shackel of deception that has been placed around our neck by false prophets and place our faith and trust in the Great Shepherd, we are doomed to repeat the history of Israel and follow the leaders we choose all the way to damnation.

Let God choose the leaders, and test them by the word as instructed by Paul to make sure they are genuine. NEVER WORSHIP A MAN!!!! The remnant won't and will remain faithful to God. The rest will be judged and cast into the fire! Rev 17.

You don't have to charge hell with a bucket of water. Almighty God has already one that one. the fight we fight is the personal one, every day. Are you going to follow the THE KING or are you going to keep running around looking for a man to lead you?

Stop running around on the battle field facing the philistines (Sin) an trembling in fear! If called upon like David, stand on His Word, arm yourself with the complete armor of God and let God fight the fight for you. Then He and only He is glorified!

ezekiel said...

Anybody remember the song
"Trust and Obey, for there is no other way" ?

Anonymous said...

ezekiel said...
"Anybody remember the song
"Trust and Obey, for there is no other way" ?"

Oh yes, ezekiel, I do. Don't know if people are allowed to sing it anymore or not in their churches.
:( It rings truth.

Anonymous said...

Ezekiel-
Thank you for your insight from God's Word this morning. Your wisdom is appreciated.
_______

God knows everything, and every event happens in His time.

Now is the time for Bellevue members to wake up, get the facts, and seek the truth. We should not compromise just because it is uncomfortable and may be unpopular to take a "seat" during the standing ovations I anticipate will occur again tomorrow. My family and I will not be standing during the cheering time tomorrow.

Anonymous said...

You certainly are prideful aren't you Dr. JMO. Did you learn that from your Pastor?

Anonymous said...

TRUST AND OBEY

When we walk with the Lord
In the light of His Word,
What a glory He sheds on our way!
While we do His good will,
He abides with us still,
And with all who will trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there's no other way
To be happy with Jesus,
But to trust and obey.

Not a shadow can rise,
Not a cloud in the skies,
But His smile quickly drives it away;
Not a doubt or a fear,
Not a sigh or a tear,
Can abide if we trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there's no other way
To be happy with Jesus,
But to trust and obey.

Not a burden we bear,
Not a sorrow we share,
But our toil He doth richly repay;
Not a grief or a loss,
Not a frown or a cross,
But is blest if we trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there's no other way
To be happy with Jesus,
But to trust and obey.

But we never can prove
The delights of His love
Until all on the altar we lay;
For the favor He shows,
For the joy He bestows,
Are for them who will trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there's no other way
To be happy with Jesus,
But to trust and obey.

Then in fellowship sweet
We will sit at His feet.
Or we'll walk by His side in the way.
What He says we will do,
Where He sends we will go;
Never fear, only trust and obey.

Trust and obey, for there's no other way
To be happy with Jesus,
But to trust and obey.

Tim said...

Ezekiel,

Goliath scoffed at the size of his opposition.
Goliath scoffed because he had no idea of the size of his opposition.
Goliath lived by sight and not by faith.

David lived by faith and not by sight.
David was not concerned about the size of the army behind him.
David was not concerned about the size of the foe in front of him.
David focused on the size of the God that was with him.

Tim said...

Be sure to look at our sermon for tomorrow.
Steve Gaines Sermon Notes for Jan 07, 2006

That final statement of point two,

"Let your PAST be PAST - at LAST"

How about let the truth be told at last?
The past can't be past in the absence of truth.

Tim said...

The sermon starts out great with point 1.

FOCUS on JESUS.

Then proceeds like a runaway train, distorting the entire passage to promote an idea that is not present in the context of the Scripture at all.

Personal Integrity is not the only thing that is being compromised. We also have Scriptural Integrity being compromised as well as Doctrinal Intergrity being compromissed.


II Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Tim said...

just my opinon said...

...I do understand human behavior and have enough understanding to resist making observations from afar.

Reply:
I don't have a MD, a PhD, a MBA or a BA. I suppose you can just call me "Tim" if you'd like.

I do know that when you're in the pasture, there are certain things you try to avoid. You can see them from a good distance. When you smell them then you know you need to be careful. However, once you've stepped in it, you're to close.

MOM4 said...

JMO,
I am sorry if I offended your "doctorate", however, you are not the only educated person on this blog. I also believe that you need to be a judge of character, a willing heart to be led of God and a receptive spirit to be able to discern the character of men (mankind).

My point is that there are "some" deacons and "some" in leadership are blind, fearful and ignorant of the situations at hand and you or no one else can tell me differently - sorry to burst your bubble.

Ezekial,
I am not looking for a leader and I don't think the Lord is either. I believe that he is removing the men we have relied on and followed in order to bring us ALL to the point of leadership. We will make the stand of David or we will stand behind Goliath, but we must make our own personal stand. From that He will weed out the tares from amongst us and the remnant will remain and continue to be refined until His coming, which could be soon and very soon.
We are not the only church in this battle. It is world wide.
We need to continue to pray for those who need to have the scales removed from their eyes as well as those who refuse to listen to the truth. Only the Lord can change a heart.

Anonymous said...

Tim,

I know what you mean about the pasture thing.

I love Luke 10 where Jesus sends out the 72 into the harvest fields.

I love verse 21:
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

The wise or educated don't always know best. I experience this quite often where the learned are not always the ones who seem to get things.

I am an educated man but I have to rely on scripture in all things regardless of what has been taught to me.

Also in Luke 10, the 70 that went out were returning and telling of great success. Jesus reminded them that the real reason for joy is not power in ministry but the promise of eternal life.

Anonymous said...

Since when do you have to be "highly educated" to know right from wrong, be discerning, to Love the Lord and follow HIS WORD?

Anonymous said...

For the last couple of weeks it has been a blessing to lurk. Thanks to those of you who have provided significant Scripture, encouragement to seek His Word, and reflecting a God seeking attitude in your blogging. I could not resist commenting on the PhD in Marketing. Kudos to anyone who completed their PhD! Marketing is an odd but essential use of a background in psychology. The current leaders at BBC certainly appear to incorporate the two quite well along with PD stategy. One definition of Marketing coined by Brian Norris: "The process of repeatedly moving people closer to making a decision to purchase, use, follow, refer, upload, download, obey, reject, conform, become complacent to another person's, society's or organization's value. In retrospect it appears a lot of "marketing" has been done within BBC.

Anonymous said...

Welcome back, DR. JMO..glad to see you on my " docket" as you called it.

JMO wrote:

The point still remains that NASS has constantly asked for factual posts, yet suppositions are written as if they are facts.
****

It doesn't take a DR. to realize that the above statement is JUST
"your opinion"..nothing more, nothing less...

Have a nice day.

MOM4 said...

GBCer said...
Since when do you have to be "highly educated" to know right from wrong, be discerning, to Love the Lord and follow HIS WORD?

Exactly! I sometimes have difficulty expressing my thoughts into words when I get "irritated", Thank you for your post! You guys keep me in check - AH HA - Accountability! What a wonderful word - with a definite purpose!
THANKS!

one member said...

lily said...
"In retrospect it appears a lot of "marketing" has been done within BBC.

"MARKETING" - Another word for "salesman", or "purveyor of goods and services".

Nothing wrong with it, unless you are using it to defraud someone.

Anonymous said...

Hello...

Have any of you decided how to handle church tomorrow? I know that David Brown plans to be there to meet some of you...that is really nice. When the cheering squad and standing ovations start...what then? I know this just keeps getting harder and harder for you. I really do know that. :(

We will be praying for all of you.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

So, is there, in fact, supposed to be another apology tommorow, or is this just a rumor? You know, if I had to go to my boss 3 times in a month and either apologize for something or admit to gross negligence, he would fire me! Enough is enough already.

Financeguy....you've got mail. Truthseeker, would you mind getting my email from NBBCOF/NASS??

Anonymous said...

stillwaitingandwatching

Well, hello there! Your wit and wisdom has been sorely missed on this blog.

E-mail Tim if you'd like to SIT with a group of us. He knows the details.

Anonymous said...

Or you could justlookfor the pink pig..:)

Anonymous said...

AOG

Saw where you mentioned Thrifthaven Baptist. I went to the church and school as a child. Those are not happy memories.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

HA! Thanks little piggie! Been way to busy around here. Christmas hit me like a mack truck and I'm just recovering! Glad to be missed! Hopefully I can get my act together and hang around with yall more often.

Tim,

You've got mail!

stillwaitingandwatching said...

ima....

I think that's the million dollar question, one I never thought I would have to ask myself, "What do I do about church tomorrow?" I ususally ask, "What do I wear to church tomorrow." THIS, however, is unchartered territory. hmmmmmm.....

Just My Opinion said...

fedupatbbc wrote: “Welcome back, DR. JMO..glad to see you on my " docket" as you called it.

JMO wrote:

The point still remains that NASS has constantly asked for factual posts, yet suppositions are written as if they are facts.
****

It doesn't take a DR. to realize that the above statement is JUST
"your opinion"..nothing more, nothing less...”


To quote Dr. Rogers… “The truth is still the truth no matter one’s opinion”

To Tim – I am sorry you took me as being prideful but I am proud of my accomplishments in life. If you knew my life’s story you would probably be the first to commend me for what seemed impossible to accomplish. I do acknowledge that by the grace of God I’m here. My only intent was to answer mom4’s question concerning my credentials.

Speaking of credentials why does having wealth, ownership in businesses and being a leader for years in the church offend many of you? Why does it surprise you that men who are a success in the business world would not be in a better position to serve as leaders in our church? Can someone not be a Christian and be successful in business? I know most of the men who many of you lash out about. These are men who have been true to God’s Word for over 15 years that I have known.

Personally (opine here), I would find it very divisive should many on this blog reach a leadership position in our church. It is difficult to find much in the way of Christ’s love on this board. When Christ commanded us to ‘love one another’ He was not speaking only about those who agreed with us. You guys can have a love fest with each other but allow those of us to disagree and the cutting, mean-spirited remarks begin.

I will not be able to respond this evening until late in that I must be at the church. Bro. Steve has asked me to read a series of potential releases to be presented tomorrow. He wanted me to provide some input. Additionally he said it would help to know where best to have the applause leaders and stand up leaders react. So oft to market the message….

Now you all know that was tongue in cheek…..or do you? For those who can’t decide; yes it is still my sick marketing humor at work.

Anonymous said...

I'm afraid tomorrow is supposed to be another time of apology and "head vs. heart" issue. When you consider the timing of this, I'd say something major is coming out from the DA's office, Child Services, or both next week.

It doesn't make much sense for Steve Gaines to address the PW story once again before the official "inside" investigation is completed.

I've heard at least three times that Steve Gaines and his team have made the statement "This is the last time we are talking about any of these issues. It's over and it's time to move on." This has been said to staff, deacons, and membership.

It's obvious that the issues are not over. In fact, I'm convinced we are just now seeing the beginning.

As the light of Jesus shines down on Bellevue, more and more of the issues in darkness are going to be exposed.

This isn't anything we should fear. On the contrary, we need to get everything out in the open so they can be dealt with and then we can move on.



Until then, the days ahead are not gong to be good.

Koragg said...

stillwaitingandwatching said...

ima....

I think that's the million dollar question, one I never thought I would have to ask myself, "What do I do about church tomorrow?" I ususally ask, "What do I wear to church tomorrow." THIS, however, is unchartered territory. hmmmmmm.....

4:20 PM, January 06, 2007

Its really sad that we are having to ask ourselves that question. But at the same time, leadership at the church has really done nothing to solve any problems.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

koragg....

Yup, you are right.

MOM4 said...

JMO said...
"I will not be able to respond this evening until late in that I must be at the church. Bro. Steve has asked me to read a series of potential releases to be presented tomorrow. He wanted me to provide some input. Additionally he said it would help to know where best to have the applause leaders and stand up leaders react. So oft to market the message…."

I don't think you realize just how right on the mark you are dear sir!

Of course, we will have to wait and see...

AND there is nothing wrong with someone with wealth and power being in a leadership position, I know some wealthy leaders who are strong men of God, but they are slowly leaving the church. There was one BFC teacher in particular that was hounded until he and his wife left. Sad, he was a deacon and a solid man of God, a self made business man with a love of missions and he was LITERALLY hounded out of the church by a small group in the class who thought he should stand up for S Gaines regardless of what he did ONLY because he was in a leadership position - these same people went to Mark Gates and others with a personal agenda to attack this man in order to get him removed from his class and it worked. It is a sad day we live in, especially if you love BBC and stand for truth and accountability.

Anonymous said...

JMO is a good example of why the Lord speaks about the "love of money" destroying people.

Mark 10:25 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Wealth can keep a person from seeing the need for God in their decisions.

The world judges success on wealth. God judges us on the condition of our heart.

Anonymous said...

JMO wrote:


...Additionally he said it would help to know where best to have the applause leaders and stand up leaders react.

I recommend the balcony and just in front of the cameras on the main floor...

I agree with you that many of the lay leaders in our church are Godly men. So what do they see that I don't or what do I see that they don't? God opens mens eyes one pair at a time, I think.

ezekiel said...

What did Jesus say about a wealthy man? Eye of a needle?

What did Jesus say about powerful men? Least shall be first?

I suppose Jesus knows that the problem with wealth and power is the attitudes and pride that comes with them. We become proud of our money and things, begin to worship them, begin to use our money and position to control others (hey it works at work), throw enough money at it and it goes away.

The problem is not about wealth or status but the baggage that comes with it. Just ask King Solomon.

Just My Opinion said...

swtt wrote: "JMO is a good example of why the Lord speaks about the "love of money" destroying people."

How can you discern that I'm an example? Please share your wisdom on this for all to see.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

HA! Thanks, Ezekiel. You said that much better than I could have.

ezekiel said...

Wealth and money can easily become Me,Mine,I rather than you, them, and HIM.

Love your neighbor becomes love yourself. Hard to get into the Kingdom that way.....

Just My Opinion said...

mom4, I knew that you would quote my remarks but fail to add the disclaimer that it was written in jest. Where is the honesty in that? My wife told me that no one who try to falsify that statement by making it without the disclaimer. I told her that the lack of respect for honesty on this board would certainly prove me right. Thanks for your help. I will be getting homemade mashed potatoes for lunch tomorrow.

ezekiel said...

And then put a bunch of them together and watch the fur fly. Posturing, power plays. That is how you get the same faces on all the committees, board of directors.

Then when things get sticky the cattle start shouldering. See EZ 34

Tim said...

just my opinion,

It certainly appears that you among many others want to come here attack others and then whine about attacks when you are confronted. You have not been attacked in any way that I have seen. I believe the highly educated call that political psychology.

Concerning business creditentials. I can only point you to the Word of God. What you do from that point is your decision.

I Timothy 6:9-10
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

The problem with most of these men is not in that they have wealth, but in that they have given up every conviction they have to gain it. I know some of these fellows fairly well myself. I am also very aware of some of their business dealings.

As far as being devisive, it would be foolish to try to unite a body in love, in the absence of truth. The definition of true love (agape) would have to be rewritten to be otherwise. You have also erred in your description of Christ's command to love one another in assuming that true love is a touchy, feely thing that doesn't ever involve reprove, rebuke and exhortation.

II Timothy 4:2
2 preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine.

You have also, given the apperance that in your opinion the only problems that confront Bellevue at this time are this blog and those on it exposing legitimate problems.

Congragulations on your accomplishments. I have some of my own, but I doubt that any of us will be bragging about them in eternity.

ezekiel said...

Stillwaiting,

In some cases they follow Solomons lead in other things besides money and toys...

stillwaitingandwatching said...

jmo...

I don't think that mom4 not including the disclaimer was anything malicious. Anyone can go back and read your disclaimer, and the entire post for that matter, by themselves. I, for one, knew you were talking in jest. I think she was just wanting to reference that part of your post. So, not taking the above (i.e. the best of people) into consideration before painting with a broad brush, was pretty much uncalled for. I really don't think she meant anything by it. Let's see people in the best light here. Let's just not automatically assume someone is trying to be nefarious with their statements right off the bat. And, lucky you....homemade mashed potatoes.....thanks.....makes what I'm having for dinner look like mush.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Ezekiel...

Unfortunately, you are right about that as well.

Anonymous said...

The atmosphere on this blog was so incredibly kind and loving last night. What happened?

allofgrace said...

piglet,
Thrifthaven has no good memories for me either...of course I was there during the late sixties and early seventies as a teen.

all,
We should be careful in assuming why these leaders we look up to (Mohler, Kennedy, etc) are facing illness right now..only God knows the reasons...ezekiel you are right that we shouldn't depend on them...look up to them yes, but not depend on them.

mom4, justmyopinon,
I don't even have an associate's degree yet...I'm glad I don't have to in order to see what's right or wrong. Since I'm not a psychologist I won't try and make a diagnosis..but I don't think it takes a PHD to recognize a big ego..that usually is self manifesting..and I might add, at the risk of being torn to shreds, that I suspect a bit a of a martyr complex. Ok....fire when ready. (ducks and covers)

Anonymous said...

ezekiel said...

"You don't have to charge hell with a bucket of water. Almighty God has already one that one. the fight we fight is the personal one, every day. Are you going to follow the THE KING or are you going to keep running around looking for a man to lead you?"

Ez - How true! We are so swift to run to read/hear what man says, but so slow to turn to the Scriptures. I am so guilty of this!!

Tim said...

imaresistor said...

...When the cheering squad and standing ovations start...what then?

Reply:
I seriously doubt that there will be any standing ovations tomorrow for Steve Gaines. He has lost so much support that it would look rediculous to have a few people giving him an ovation. Those that started this rediculous display should be ashamed of how devistating it will be for him to no longer have them.

Of course on the other hand there was that truck load of pom-poms earlier today. :)

Anonymous said...

Folks,
Did those of you who have children receive your letter today from BBC?During the summer they had focus groups the to develope additional safety measures,procedures,ect,ect.
It seems that they have decided to upgrade security.Starting Jan 7 the new security measures will be phased in,and that we we should know that every teacher and worker has been carefully screened prior to serving.There will also be an informational meeting where more details will be provided.
Seems to me that the reason for the letter and reasurence may be due to a big drop in children attending SS.Only my opinion though.
They didn't mention who has done all the screening of teachers and workers all these many years,but I believe we know the answer.I noticed that the so called focus groups were put together this summer .Maybe after June?I was not notified or asked to particiate in any of these focus groups.Have any of you?
I might add that I don't feel any safer and my kids will NOT be in SS .

Tim said...

nthepew,

I did not recieve anything in the mail today. An informational meeting..hmm..is that one of those where they talk and we don't. Interesting that they would have put together focus groups around that time period, isn't it. I would be interested to know who attended those as well. It sounds like a bit of propaganda to me...a day late and a dollar short, I might add.

Anonymous said...

Hi all, Just some fun facts about the 'educated' in scripture.

During the time of Jesus a young Jewish boy was sent to study with the Rab at about age 7. He continued until about 13. At that age, if he showed promise, he stayed until about age 18 or 19. Then if he really showed an aptitude for learning and becoming a Rab, he stayed until age 30 when he would assume the position of Rab and teach others. (Hence, Jesus being 30 when He started his ministry)

Now, the Apostles, would NOT have been working at jobs if they had been the 'creme of the crop' when Jesus called for them to follow Him. They would have been studying under a Rab. They were the ones that did not make that second or third cut.

About the only exception to this was Paul.

Anonymous said...

Tim,
Any opinion's about who will run the informational meeting. I expect to see Harry Smith at least,after the outstanding job he did for the CC meetings, maybe the saddleman will be there to help.

allofgrace said...

Matt 11:25-26
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure."

Tim said...

lindon,

Have you looked over the sermon notes for the service tomorrow?

Anyone else as well.

If you have not then you need to. You need to read the entire book of Phillippains. You also need to look at each Scripture reference and the context of that Scripture.

It is impossible for me to even consider this a sermon.

It is a poorly writen speech that attempts to support itself with Scripture.

Tim said...

nthepew,

I would doubt that Harry Smith would want anything at all to do with several hundred parents and try to explain how trust worthy the church is at this time.

How many concerned parents would accept, "Uh...I don't know.." as a legitimate response? I would imagine after about the third one of those, someone could stand up and yell "dogpile" and it would be Katy bar the door.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Tim said...

BBC Employee,

Well I certainly hope that your not the only one that he has spoken with for 30 minutes. If you are you probably are in for another 30.

Anonymous said...

Tim said...
"I seriously doubt that there will be any standing ovations tomorrow for Steve Gaines. He has lost so much support that it would look rediculous to have a few people giving him an ovation."

So...that is encouraging. He is losing support? I don't think I've heard anybody with that report. That is really good news. Is it because people are sheding their scales or is it because they are getting disguisted and leaving?

"Of course on the other hand there was that truck load of pom-poms earlier today. :)"

Right...:)

Tim said...

BBC Employee,

You might want to click that little trash can right below your post, because other wise you may have just ended your career.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
allofgrace said...

bbc employee,
I admire your courage.

Anonymous said...

BBC Employee,

You should post your name if your tired of hiding. For all we know you just made up a name and don't even work for Bellevue.

Anonymous said...

overflowinggrace
How can you demand that BBC employeee reveal his identity while you hide yours, a little hypocritcial I think.

Tim said...

imaresistor,

I believe that the primary reason that he is losing it so rapidly is because of the grass roots effort to spread the truth via word of mouth. Surprisingly the very act that they thought would strengthen their support, the standing ovations, has become one of the biggest areas of concern.

The reasons that I believe that the standing ovations are over.

1. Similar to the deacon pledge, they no longer have the support to pull it off.
2. Similar to the Communications Committee attempt to spin the truth, it has backfired.
3. They have actually created a bigger problem for themselves than they had to begin with.

I personally am hoping that they will try it tomorrow. I'll fall out of the pew, if I see John Caldwell jump up clap for a few seconds, realize that he is all alone and sheepishly sit back down.

It is interesting sometimes how politics play out. Of course, if they hadn't started playing politics in the church to begin with, then Steve Gaines wouldn't have to be embarassed tomorrow to realize that his support was gone.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

All of you Steve Gaines haters should organize a little better. I counted about 60 unique user names on yesterdays thread. Surely there are many more than 60 of you. Why don't you start a petition so you can show everyone how strong this movement is. You should be able to get a couple thousand names on paper. Now they would have to be your given names and not mom4, allofgrace, goingtoheaven21. If all of this comotion is really about 100 people being upset, then you really do need to move on. Oh I know you are standing for truth and the other 8500 in Bible Fellowship are just blind ignorant sheep. Please...

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Tim said...

BBC Employee,

Did you see my response to your e-mail earlier?

Anonymous said...

Tim,

I just now saw it.

Thanks!

MOM4 said...

BBC employee...
Email me please - I am former staff - confidential of course.
mom38134@yahoo.com
Thanks!

Tim said...

overflowwinggrace,

You have no idea, just how organized things can become and just how quickly it can happen. I have received so many e-mails from lurkers, that never post that it is unbelievable. Some from Bellevue others are not.

If Steve Gaines resigned tomorrow, would you continue at Bellevue or would you leave?

Anonymous said...

A camry please...I think most anyone can afford a camry.

Anonymous said...

Is it true about the labryinth being built in the new prayer building? Is it just rumor? If this is true we should do everything possible to get the word out. The is not right.

Anonymous said...

Overflowing grace,

You have absolutely no proof of anything you are saying! Get some facts before you post.

Anonymous said...

Tim,

We are gone if he steps down and many more will go. If some real evidence comes out that SG really did somthing wrong then we would stay.

Anonymous said...

bbc employee,

what proof do i need....explain..

Anonymous said...

I'm joking...

Anonymous said...

If anybody wants to contact me I just put my e-mail in my profile

ezekiel said...

mom4,

I sure hope that I have not offended you. If so, will you forgive me?

The point that I am trying to make is that some people are looking for a leader. How else would we have people willing to sacrifice what they do to defend SG, or AR. Seemingly 2 opposite ends of the spectrum but defended no less adamantly or agressively. How does Joel Olsteen fill his church? Haggard still has his supporters, I bet if you dig deep enough you will find some that would still defend Jim Baker.

Even if we find an AR that preaches the Word, you will still have people that would not come to church then and love SG now. Who ever replaces SG whether next week or 30 years from now will still have folks depending on him to be their relationship with Jesus. And I say that it ought not to be....

I know a guy that has read the bible over 15 times. Can quote you at least the chapter of the book if not the verse on just about anything you want to discuss. Now he is not a doctor, lawyer or anything close. But he knows the WORD. It is hard to even carry on a conversation with him, he corrects or rebukes so quickly.

Now there is no way any man is going to lead him off the path...Jesus (the WORD)truly does abide in him. PD, Rick Warren, SG...seeker friendly...nope, nothing but the word.
Most churches kick him out. Needless to say, he is not shy about rebuking false teaching.

Israel had many chances and turned to worship idols easily. Are we any different? The only safety is abiding in Him, The WORD. You can't get your word from man, just too risky, regardless of who he is or what book you get it from. AOG, WTB and folks like them are well read enough they see and discern the dangers in Lifeway, and other book stores. I am not. So I stay away from them. The web is full of stuff, some good and a lot bad. Remember, Satan is subtle and he only has to twist it a little to make it a complete lie. If you truly "abide in him" you will spot the deception easily...The Holy Spirit will highlite it with a big yellow marker....

BR said...

overflowinggrace said...
A camry please...I think most anyone can afford a camry.

7:02 PM, January 06, 2007

I can't, I work in a ministry.

MOM4 said...

EZ,
Of course you did not offend me, if anything, I may have appeared hostile, but I did not mean to. I get intense sometimes and come across more agressive than I am. Actually, I am very tenderhearted and I apologize for making you think that I may have been offended -
Did that all make sense?
I love you in Jesus Christ!

Tim said...

ezekiel,

I agree that we should not worship any man, but at the same time we should have a pastor that we can respect. Adrain Rogers was a pastor worthy of respect.

Paul told us to follow him as he followed Christ. I believe that we should have a preacher/leader that follows Christ. Steve Gaines is not that man.

MOM4 said...

hey folks,
bbc employee is a troll - a mole - a hoax -

allofgrace said...

mom4,
How do you know?

Tim said...

mom4,

What makes you think that?

Anonymous said...

OK, I've had enough fun.

I don't work in Communications.
I don't work at Bellevue.
I don't know Jim Barnwell. I think the only thing I've ever said to him is "hi"
I am not anti-Gaines.
I am anti-savingbellevue

MOM4 said...

I asked him pertinent questions and he revealed that he was not who he said he was. I will forward you the email Tim, AOG, I do not have yours, maybe Tim can forward it.

Anonymous said...

Overflowing Grace,

you are doing a good work and I appreciate you.

Keep up the good work!

And about the Camry, it was the first car I could think of.

Anonymous said...

overflowinggrace said...
All of you Steve Gaines haters should organize a little better. I counted about 60 unique user names on yesterdays thread. Surely there are many more than 60 of you.-----If all of this comotion is really about 100 people being upset, then you really do need to move on. Oh I know you are standing for truth and the other 8500 in Bible Fellowship are just blind ignorant sheep. Please...

If we are so few and so insignficent them why are you so concerned about us??

MOM4 said...

bbeemployee...
perhaps you and overflowingmace can communicate on a first name basis..

Anonymous said...

mom4,

what is that suppose to mean?

ezekiel said...

Tim,

That is why Paul liked the Bearens, they tested his doctrine and he wasn't afraid of that. he knew his doctrine was sound. And questions proved it.

These days if you test the doctrine from the pulpit, you get run out of the church...what changed?

Anonymous said...

BBC employee,
I was taught that to lie was a sin.Were you? Do you feel guilty about lying? Or will you justify your sin?

MOM4 said...

bbc employee,
I figured you two knew each other, or you are one in the same?

Anonymous said...

Trucker,

Before you start talking about my "lie" start looking at all the lies this blog has been started.

Mom4,

I am not overflowing grace nor do I know who he is. I can't prove it, so you can think what you want.

MOM4 said...

bbc,
I am just funnin' with you, no hard feelings:(

Anonymous said...

BBC Employee said...
Trucker,

Before you start talking about my "lie" start looking at all the lies this blog has been started.

are you saying that your lies are good lie?

Anonymous said...

pew,

I never said that. I'm saying that all the lies on this blog are just as bad.

Mom4,

no hard feelings.

Anonymous said...

BBC Employee said...
Trucker,

Before you start talking about my "lie" start looking at all the lies this blog has been started.

What lies are you talking about? List them

Anonymous said...

I don't have time to go and find specific lies, but how about

"Dr. Rogers asked Steve Gaines to resign before he died"

stillwaitingandwatching said...

To no one in particular,

I'm just kinda curious, but what "lies" has this blog started? Seems to me like pretty much everything this blog has brought out has been proven. All the talk about the "lies" on this blog is, to me atleast, like sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "Mary Had a Little Lamb" while someone is trying to talk.

Anonymous said...

stillwaiting,

see previous post

Anonymous said...

Can you prove it is a lie? Give us some facts.

Anonymous said...

can you prove it's the truth? It is your responsibility to prove that it is the truth. And unless somebody has some proof, it is not going to be considered truth.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Thanks, BBCE.

Obviously, we were typing at the same time. How do you know, for a fact, that this was not said? I am not saying it was or wasn't. I just want to know how you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, apparently, know this to not be the case?

Anonymous said...

BBC emp
Did it bother you to know that SG kept a child molester on staff ,or do you consider that a lie also?

Bellevue Friend said...

Friend's,

I wouldn't be so hard on Bellevue Employee.....I mean it's not like its the first time people have been lied to, by someone with the moniker Bellevue employee:)

So, is there really 8,500 people who would prefer Scandals to a Servant leader, Arrogance, to Humility? If so....

Then you deserve ....what you so desperately desire...and when the next issue surfaces, you can sweep that under the rug to!

Even if those who refuse to look the other way and embrace the Leadership number just a few, I would rather be with them....than those who cannot or will not rightly divide the word of truth!

I would hope that when it comes right down to it.....God's people would make the same decision Moses made....

By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter and chose to suffer with the people of God rather than to enjoy the short-lived pleasure of sin.

For he considered reproach for the sake of the Messiah to be greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, since his attention was on the reward. (Hebrews 11:24-26).

Willing to suffer, for the sake of Integrity!

Anonymous said...

Still waiting,

No I have no proof that it wasn't said. It is impossible to prove that it wasn't said until we asked Dr. Rogers. But if somebody says that on the blog and offers absolutely no proof whatsoever, there is no reason to believe it.

Trucker,

Who said PW molested his son? That was never officially said, and until we know the full truth there is no need to gossip about it.

cjesusnme said...

bbc employee,

You may have just posted your last post on this blog. This blog is not for playing jokes and pranks. Our concerns are real.

stillwaitingandwatching said...

There are varying degrees of issues that this blog have brought out. Some, to some, are minor, while other, to others, are pretty major. I think a lot of the previous issues pale in comparison to the PW issue. So, in honor of my new friend Josh Manning, I quote thusly and like so, "that's a straw man argument." Let's get our eyes off of what did or didn't happen while Dr. Rogers was alive, and focus on the fact that our present Pastor, by admission himself, knew we had a pedophile on staff and chose the "compassionate" route instead of the righteous route. Mkay, BBCE?

Anonymous said...

BBC Employee said...
can you prove it's the truth? It is your responsibility to prove that it is the truth. And unless somebody has some proof, it is not going to be considered truth.

7:49 PM, January 06, 2007

I accept it as the truth , you call it a lie -well convince me. You have already proven yourself to be a lier. so if you cannot convince me , I'll just put you on my "ignore the lier list" and scroll on by

Anonymous said...

But if this blog lies about the minor things, why should I believe the major things?

"He who is faithful with a little will be faithful with a lot" but until everything is truth, I won't know what to believe.

Anonymous said...

BBC is right about the lie that Dr. Rogers asked SG to step down. It's sad but their were about 8 weeks between AR washing SG's feet and AR's death. That's very hard to believe and most likely a lie without proof.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Bellevue Friend said...

These questions are not sincere.

Bellevue Employee, know's the issue...and the facts....the only reason this person is blogging is to wear everyone out by rehashing the obvious!

Why would anyone want to dialougue with a person who came on here lieing right out of the blocks!

Anonymous said...

Bye.bye I'll no longer feed you

Tim said...

ezekiel,

Dr. Rogers acutally encouraged us to be Beareans. He would often encourage people not to take his word for it and test the Scripture. And often I did just that.

Anonymous said...

pew,

you will no longer feed me or you just realized that you were wrong?

Anonymous said...

bbc,

if they are writing us off, then we can chat.

How tall does a fence need to be to step over. I think 41" but some say 44". What do you think?

stillwaitingandwatching said...

WOW! Thanks Bellevue Friend for knocking me back into reality. I must have lost my mind...been away for a while....(don't feed the trolls.... don't feed the trolls.... don't feed the trolls. don't feed th....)

Anonymous said...

I'm more of a 42" person myself, but that's just me. I could be wrong...

Anonymous said...

bbc employee-

Goodness gracious. Your tone is rather harsh. Please think about what you are saying before you post your comments.

Integrity matters. We may not know who you are at the moment, but that is ok. God knows. Please think about this

Anonymous said...

bbc,

What's your favorite praise and worship song? Mines is "He calls me friend" ...not sure if thats the name of it, but the Phillips Craig and Dean song.

Anonymous said...

Bellevue Friend said...
These questions are not sincere.

I agree ,and trucker will not feed those two trolls any more.

Tim said...

bbc employee,

I can't prove that God exist, does that mean you are an atheist?

Anonymous said...

While in service I only sing along with the hymns. I used to like the more contemporary stuff until I realized they had a drummer playing with them! They did not have drumsets in Bible days and so we shouldn't have them in our churches!

Shame on you for listening to that "devil music" overflowing. : )

Anonymous said...

BBC,

You must understand how ignorant unholy you are and how perfect the saving bellevue folks are.

Anonymous said...

Tim,

you may not be able to prove that God exists, but there is a lot of proof that leads the it. If you consider all the facts, God only makes sense.

When you consider all the facts regarding AR asking SG to resign it doesn't make sense.

Let's consider those facts right now.

In favor of AR NOT saying that:
He was always very supportive of SG.
He washed his feet just weeks earlier.

In favor of AR saying that:

whynotask said...

BBCEMPLOYEE
Did you learn your truth saying comments from Steve Gaines.

Anonymous said...

bbc employee and overflowinggrace

Are you two excited that we might get to have our own BBC labyrinth?

Anonymous said...

Thats a good point about the drums, same goes for AC and Heating.

Did SG have anything to do with taking away the donut holes. I hear that he gets a % of the donut sales.

2006Huldah said...

Ezekiel,

You certainly are doing an outstanding job tonight with your scripture posting and reasoning. That's the way studying the Word of God works on us and in us; isn't it, Brother?

Everybody, if you think Brother Ezekiel is really understanding the Bible and how to apply it to our current situation--well, you can do that, too! Just read the Bible as often as you can until you get all the way through it. Do this as a sacrifice of praise to the Lord Jesus. Do this to get to know the Him better. You will then have the whole armor of God(Eph. 6) on you and in you. You won't remember every word you read. You don't have to be smart. You don't have to be anything but sincere. Try it. The enemy won't be able to lie to you anymore and get away with it. You'll have that seal of knowledge that you only get from the LIVING WORD. It is God's will for you to fellowship with Him and to CHOOSE him of your own free will. Read what He has to say and give Him glory. Oh, and by the way, you don't even have to finish it in exactly a year. Hallelujah!
Jesus is Lord! Amen.

Dee

stillwaitingandwatching said...

In favor of AR saying that,

He was human and made mistakes!

Anonymous said...

nthepew,
Saw your post about the letter you received today, I didn't get mine yet, but I don't think it make me feel secure enough to trust them with my kids.

Anonymous said...

stillwaiting,

how is that in favor of him saying that? There is no proof of him saying that other than a post on this forum.

Anonymous said...

In favor of AR saying that:

family members of AR leaving BBC

Anonymous said...

Piglet,

you said

"Are you two excited that we might get to have our own BBC labyrinth?"

Tell me why thats bad? Educate me?

Anonymous said...

Overflowing grace,

I never thought about the AC and heating like that!

I have been living with AC and heating at my house for years!

We must stop living these lies!

Tim said...

bbc employee,

Many weeks earlier. It would not have taken Adrian Rogers 15 minutes to decide that Steve Gaines needed to go in light of most any of the facts that we know now.

Don't fool yourself. You really don't know it happened or not. So you are saying that your opinion is fact.

No thanks, you have already proven yourself to be a liar.

Why should I accept your opinion? I don't even know who you are. The people that I have spoken with about this would have known. Some would have known very well.

Why not quit behaving like a spoiled child?

Anonymous said...

Tim,

I never said I knew for a fact that it didn't happen. I just said the facts point that it didn't.

You seem to act as if you know 100% that it happened.

allofgrace said...

ez,
You've got mail.

Anonymous said...

Piglet
I was astounded about the new labyrinth at BBC. What next prayer chrystials,and a mantra at the evening service.

Anonymous said...

BBC,

Stand for truth!!!

By the way...I got a call from Chuck Taylor, one of those recorded messages. It said to be sure and stand when SG takes the stage. He also requested that we bring UT shakers.

Anonymous said...

How do you know that we are getting a labyrinth?

And what's so wrong with one?

Anonymous said...

overflowing grace

Did I say it was bad? Gee, as long as it's a tool for Jesus...

How about a christian Ouija board?

Or the fruits of the spirit on a pentagram?

We all need to get in touch with that inner divine, right?

Do some research.

Anonymous said...

Overflowing grace,

thanks for letting me know, I didn't get to the phone in time to answer.

I will be bringing extra shakers to leave at the doors in case anybody forgets theirs.

Anonymous said...

Ok..let the research begin

The labyrinth is a tool to use in contemplative prayer and meditation. Labyrinths are often confused with mazes. But while a maze has dead ends and blind alleys, the labyrinth has only one path leading both in and out of the center. The labyrinth is flat. One can always see the center. The destination is assured, so that the mind can be still and attentive.

Walking the labyrinth clears the mind and gives us insight into our spiritual journeys. The labyrinth does nothing on its own. It is simply a tool helpful for many people in deepening their prayer lives. Each walk into and out of the labyrinth is a unique opportunity to meet our creative, loving God through contemplative prayer.

Anonymous said...

I don't know that we are getting a labyrinth. I just wondered if you would be excited to have one if that is the plan.

Anonymous said...

Wow!

I'm going to call Bellevue and if we're not going a labyrinth, I'm going to request one!

allofgrace said...

overflowinggrace,
honest question..no sarcasm stated or intended...how would you square that with Jesus' teaching on prayer?

MOM4 said...

overfowinggrace said...
"Each walk into and out of the labyrinth is a unique opportunity to meet our creative, loving God through contemplative prayer"

They have them at MECCA, where the muslims go every year. There are 2 other churches that have them in Shelby County. Both are apostate, one is a gay church and the other is new age.

Anonymous said...

Piglet'
This is more NEW AGE than PDL ,or are the two merging. Did anyone know how much this will cost? What awast of the Lord's money.

Anonymous said...

There is only one way to the center. That sounds similar to somthing...what is it?

Anonymous said...

mom4,

What are the 2 churches?

Anonymous said...

Well, I'm leaving.

I probably won't be back.

Overflowing Grace, you're doing a good job!

Everybody else, don't take yourself to seriously.

Tim said...

bbc employee,

Just officially, put your e-mail address into my spam folder.

You do remind me quite a bit of Ace. When do you expect that you will be getting your drivers license?

Overflowinggrace had trouble passing the written test and has to retake it in a month.

Adios, children.

Anonymous said...

Mom would one of those apostate churches be FUMC?

Anonymous said...

Overflowing Grace

These have been used by Hindus, Buddhits, and Indian tribes and they DO feel like there is power in the geometric design to connect you with your inner divine. There's plenty on the internet about it.

Part of the journey in is to "empty the mind" by concentrating on your steps, your breathing , or using a mantra.

Any yoga classes in the works?

I get credit for the christian Ouija board if it catches on! :)

Just My Opinion said...

Stillwaitingandwatching wrote: “Let's just not automatically assume someone is trying to be nefarious with their statements right off the bat.”

I totally agree with you. But should Bro. Steve make a statement…I assume that all bets are off.

Tim wrote: “It certainly appears that you among many others want to come here attack others and then whine about attacks when you are confronted. You have not been attacked in any way that I have seen. I believe the highly educated call that political psychology.

Tim, I have not attacked anyone but have asked for people to be accountable as to their comments. I asked the same of you in reference to me. Smtt made an untrue comment about me and I asked for clarification. Am I wrong in standing up for myself when I’ve been wrongfully accused? One word of caution I must say at this point….be careful in the utilization of selected scripture as a means of solidification of your opinion or as an intended confirmation of your statements. Deuteronomy would have us take a son to the city limits of our community and stone him to death for being disrespectful to his father. You know, the Bible doesn’t teach a different morality than people know already; as Paul says in the second chapter of Romans, God’s moral law is ‘written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness.’ Whether or not they know the Good News of salvation, deep down all human beings know the Bad News of sin.

2006Huldah said...

Please do not converse with those who are obviously attempting to distract and demean this web log.

The world is watching you easily fall for trickery and foolishness. We have more serious business to tend to.

Reflect the light of Jesus on this site.

Dee

allofgrace said...

doesn't God tell us to "come, let us reason together."? I don't understand how you can do that with an empty mind, since reason would require engagement of the mind,

Anonymous said...

BBC Employee,

You lied so well. Have you been taking lessons from your Pastor?

cjesusnme said...

Overflowing,

Did Chuck ask you to brink UT shakers because that is where he used to Cheer?

Anonymous said...

BBC Employee,

Please don’t take this as an attack. I could not be more sincere.

How old are you? How long have you been my brother in Christ? Have you invested decades of prayer and praise and sacrifice in the body of believers called Bellevue?

I have been at Bellevue since I was a child. I was Baptized in “the old church” along with my father and sister; I was there when we voted to move to the new property, which we couldn’t yet imagine; I was there at the Southern Baptist Convention when Dr. Rogers took a mighty stand for the inerrancy of God’s Word; I marched in the processional when we moved into Canaan; my husband proposed to me in front of the bronze Bible under the front portico; I was married in the Sanctuary; my babies were dedicated there in the arms of Adrian Rogers; I have watched them grow and come to love Jesus themselves; I have taught and been taught, and been involved in countless classes, groups and ministries through the years………….my heart is BROKEN. SHATTERED. SCARRED.

And I am not unique in any way. I am just one of many with the same story and the same hurt. We come here to share that hurt and perhaps find a glimmer of hope.

How you can find humor in toying with the remnant of faithful prayer warriors here is beyond me. Do you not hurt also?

I don’t know you and you don’t know me. Although, I may have sat next to you in Church for years. I may have taught you in Graded Choir, or taken care of you in the nursery.

I guess that the only thing I can think to say now is that THIS IS FOR REAL, and the stakes couldn‘t be higher.

Anonymous said...

Okay, you guys...now you know I was just kidding on my last post right?

So if they do come out with a christian Oija board (and why not) it was NOT me.

trucker

Notice they cast the labyrinth in a positive light....g

Anonymous said...

Any scipture,ANY scripture taken out of its context is a PRETEXT.

allofgrace said...

rod,
what scripture was taken out of context?

Anonymous said...

Be-still-and-know-
Amen…Amen…Amen…Amen.

Tim said...

just my opinion,

If you feel capable of refuting any Scriputure reference that I have given, then feel free. You will find a problem in doing it, because they are in context. If you have the ability to back up any of your opinions then please, find Scripture in context to do so. I will anxiously await your reply.

Anonymous said...

This may have been posted on here before (though I don't recall seeing it.)

For those of you who are genuinely seeking the truth on this blog, this article is very encouraging (at least, it is to me). Click here.

Practicing Biblical discernment can be lonely work sometimes - it certainly won't cause you to win any popularity contests. But it's so important...

MOM4 said...

Overflowinggrace....
Second Baptist has one, as well as First Congregational.

Trucker....
as far as I know FUMC did not have one - but they very well may build one with the 25K we gave them

2006Huldah said...

Has anyone noticed that neither "Ace" nor "4545" have shown up, but that two other gnats have?

Anonymous said...

be-still-and-know

I hope you don't think I am making light of the situation. It IS very serious. I hope my posts illustrate how absurd this New Age labyrinth garbage is. And, as I suspected, overflowing grace tried to sell it as a positive spiritual tool.

This is where we are headed?

I am mortified at the lack of discernment in our church.....

My heart breaks with yours.

Anonymous said...

I was refering to sunday's sermon. It is my opinion that we are to take the Word of God and we are to read it through word for word, and give the meaning. Just like Ezra was to do. To make an outline or a sermon, like most do today, on a subject or a point the giver of the sermon wants to get across and to use God's Word to try and prove the words of the speaker, in my opinion, is not what God has in mind. Let God speak for Himself in His Word. Keep it all in context. Beging at a book and go through it verse by verse and see what He has to say to us. NOT, this is the message I I< I, want to get across. Hummmmmmmmmmm What scriptures can I LIFT to PROVE MY POINT.

allofgrace said...

rod,
I agree 100%..I thought you saw a post or something where someone took scripture out of context..that's why I asked...enjoy your posts btw.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know where David Brown will be at church tomorrow and which service?
Also anyone know his e-mail address?

Anonymous said...

Exactly Rod a very good point. Really good expository preaching will take one or two verses in a row and break them down not have you jumping all across the bible trying to get whatever point across that the Pastor needs to get a cross. Just as JMO was saying you can jump to many different places in the bible in order to get your point across.

Anonymous said...

is finance guy lurking?

MOM4 said...

socwork,
I read what was on the link - makes me want to go to the Branson World View Weekend!

Tim said...

rod almondmartanti,

I have posted links about that "sermon". Not even a sermon really. I have refuted a good portion of it. If you look at the other references, then you will be even more amazed.

This one looks like someone turned a monkey loose with a typewriter.

Anonymous said...

2006Huldah said...
Has anyone noticed that neither "Ace" nor "4545" have shown up, but that two other gnats have?

8:47 PM,January 06, 2007

"Gnats" I thought they were horseflies.
Good night all see you at church tomorrow I'll be the one sitting during the standing"O"'s

Tim said...

ju,

JMO was disputing the passages that I was giving in my explanations to him/her. He/She is very supportative of the pastor doing this very thing.

The passages that I have given were in context however. I didn't start with an opinion and try to prove it. I started with Scripture and formed an opinion.

MOM4 said...

Rod....
Hummmmmmmmmmm What scriptures can I LIFT to PROVE MY POINT.

One of the reasons that we have difficulty attending the worship services is that all of the messages are the same..they are bits and pieces of whatever scriptures that support his defense for whatever fiasco he is involved in at the moment. We are used to meat, not curds and whey..

I am ashamed that so many have sat under the teachings of Dr Rogers and did not hear a thing! Makes me wonder why they were there in the first place - perhaps the scales were there way back then so that is why they have no discernment now??

Tim said...

trucker,

You have mail.

Anonymous said...

"I will seek Your face, O Lord. Alone Your face will I seek. That I might know Your pleasure, O Lord."

"You have become our complete desire. Your are an all consuming fire. ?Burn up the chaff from the heart of this nation. Call for Yourself a chosen generation."

"We are the bricks, let Your love be the mortar. Sweep through Your house like a refiner's fire. Let al thet is dross pass away. Revival begins here today!"

"Arise O God, and come to Your resting place. Ascend to Your throne, in the midst of our shouts of praise."

Anonymous said...

Where are the good shepherds? Is the Lord going to cause a famine of His Word in America? We know that a diet of milk, according to Hebrews will cause the Lord Himself to make us hard of hearing. We must be fed meat.

Anonymous said...

Tim
Thanks

Anonymous said...

FYI -
This is from yesterday's thread. I know I took up some yardage on that thread with Contemplative Prayer and Labyrinths, but this has absolutely blown my mind!

Labyrinth walking is apparently becoming the hot new youth activity. I have found many websites suggesting activities, and selling portable labyrinth kits for your gym or fellowship hall. Even "pocket finger-labyrinths!"

Here is the list I posted yesterday:



imaresistor said...
be-still-and-know,

"Would you be kind enough to share the names of the churches in Memphis that have labryniths?"

11:48 AM, January 05, 2007

..................................

Ima-

Here is what I have come up with so far:

Calvary Episcopal Church
102 N. Second Street
Memphis, TN 38103

Harbor of Health
(Hospital or Hospice Center)
718 Harbor Bend Road
Memphis, Tennessee 38103

First Congregational Church
1000 South Cooper
Memphis, Tennessee 38104

Lindenwood Christian Church
2400 Union Avenue
Memphis, Tennessee 38112

Church of the Holy Communion
4645 Walnut Grove Rd.
Memphis, Tennessee 38117

Wings Labyrinth at The West Clinic
(Hospital or Hospice Center)
100 North Humphreys
Memphis, Tennessee 38120

St. George's Episcopal Church (they have two; one portable, indoors; one outdoor)
8250 Poplar Ave.
Germantown, Tennessee 38138

4:49 PM, January 05, 2007

Anonymous said...

Minutes from the last deacons meeting.

http://www.napster.com/view/track/index.html?id=12655369

Anonymous said...

Piglet -

I wasn't ranting at you! :^)

allofgrace said...

rod,
I believe the curse of this generation is what I call the "microwave" mentality...this generation likes things quick, easy, and disposable...I'm afraid the results of that mentality have come home to roost.

MOM4 said...

be still,
Wow, that blows my mind. Old slewfoot has been doing his work as only he can..this is disturbing!

stillwaitingandwatching said...

Rod,

Thank you for posting this. You have confirmed to me what a blessed soul just confirmed to me. "I will seek Your face, O Lord. Alone Your face will I seek. That I might know Your pleasure, O Lord." Tomorrow will be all about Jesus for me. I will sing praises to the Lord. I will pray for Him to reveal His Word to me through the Scriptures that SG uses for himself. I will sit and pray and give a standing ovation in my heart to the Lord.

Anonymous said...

Hi Tim, Had to go kiss my daughter’s stuffed animals good night. She told me they are my ‘grandchildren’. Where are all those verses on pride? :o)

Yes, I saw the outline. Gave me flashbacks! I used to sit through sermons like this all the time and I believed them, too... Until I became a Berean. You know what is weird about scripture? The more you learn, the more you realize how little you know!

Basically what it seems to me that we (royal ‘we’) are trying to use scripture out of context to fit a premise.

Just taking one scripture he uses to show that God passes over sin: Micah 7:18. The verse comes from the last part of Micah were God is saying He will forgive Israel. But what does God say BEFORE that verse? We can start with the Coming Judgment of Israel, Mourning for Israel and Judah, Woe to Evildoers, Lying Prophets, Israel Restored, Wicked Rulers and Prophets (See Chapter 3 and read the whole thing!), The Lords Reign in Zion, Zion’s Future Triumph, The Coming Messiah, Judgment on Israel’s Enemies, God Pleads with Israel, Punishment for Israel’s Injustice, Sorrow for Israel’s Sin, Israel’s Confession and Comfort THEN we get to.... God Will Forgive Israel!

Uh, a lot happened before we got to 7:18! A lot that is very important to 7:18!

Just about every passage he mentions is like this…and taken out of context. Not the full story. Not the full gospel.

One of my pet peeves is the misuse of Jeremiah 29:11. This one gets me every time. I mean, if you take the verse BEFORE it, it says, “For Thus says the Lord, After 70 YEARS (my emphasis) are completed at BABYLON (my emphasis), I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place.

Uh, big difference when read in full context of Jeremiah. Big difference when you just read verse 10!!!

Something else that really bothers me here is the teaching that it is Satan who is reminding you of past failures (sin?) and reprimands you for past ‘failures’ (sin?). It may not be Satan at all. Best to test the spirits!

Where does joy come from? Joy comes from knowing how depraved you are, your godly sorrow for your sins past but that you are forgiven because you repented and have faith. Joy is part of becoming sanctified..growing more Holy knowing how depraved you really are! Irony: The more holy you are, the more depraved you know you are!!

However, if we are honest, we know the heart is deceitful. God gives us a conscious, shame and guilt for a reason. If we feel guilty or have shame for past sins, it may NOT be Satan but the Holy Spirit urging us to confess and repent. God only chastises those who belong to Him. Best not to just chuck that off on Satan so quick but to pray and beg God to reveal your sin to you. It could very well be part of chastising to bring you closer to God. And it is a very hard process. If you ignore the Holy Spirit, God may just harden your heart. Scary.

There is much more but I think you get the picture. I am no ‘learned theologian’. Sometimes I thank God for that.

This outline looks like ‘tickling ears’ to me by a ‘hireling’ (see John). I know, I heard many a sermon like this given to fit a preconceived premise. My prayer is that those hearing will go home and read every single verse in context of each book.

It is amazing the difference in the Word when read in context. It is convicting! It is powerful!

What does James say about 'Teachers' of the Word? Scary, too.

Anonymous said...

Did any of you listen to the audio from the last deacons meeting?

Anonymous said...

I think we can rejoice and keep looking up! "Can you hear it? Thunder in the distance. Can you hear it? The Lion of Judah roars!"

'SHOUTS OF JOY AND VICTORY RESOUND IN THE TENTS OF THE RIGHTEOUS OF THE LORD! The Lord's right hand has done mighty things for us, the Lords right hand is lifted hight! The Lord's ritht hand reigns on high!"

He is still on HIS throne and all is in order. Are we standing in our position in Christ? If so then lets all sing for joy to our Lord! Have we forgotten where our help comes from? Not man. it is in His presence where our victory lies.

"In His presence, that's where I belong!"

Anonymous said...

Tim said...
lindon,

"Have you looked over the sermon notes for the service tomorrow?

Anyone else as well.

If you have not then you need to. You need to read the entire book of Phillippains. You also need to look at each Scripture reference and the context of that Scripture."

Tim - I have spent this afternoon and evening inserting the Scriptures listed in the sermon notes text then going back and inserting the Scripture in context. All I can say is "What an eye-opener". I need to go back and pay special attention to the warnings there are in context. I would love to have a pastor who would preach expositionally (sp).

What wise man once said "Any text taken out of context is just a pretext?" Or something like that! This same man also said "It's better to know the truth and to stand alone than it is to be wrong with a multitude."

Tim said...

lindon,

Finally! I reserved myself from giving a full opinion on this sermon, I virtually have begged people to pull it up and look at the outline, read the Scripture and form their own opinion.

I have had very few pastors respond to this.

The integrity is gone from the pulpit at Bellevue.

There is no pastorial integrity.

There is no doctrinal integrity.

There is no scriptural intergity.

I for one am sick of it.

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