"Moral Failures Thrive in Silence"
Wendi Thomas wrote this article in today's edition of the Commercial Appeal.
"Report on pastor's 'moral failure' may come by Jan. 20"
Pamela Perkins wrote this article in yesterday's edition.
FOX13 News coverage is here.
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488 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 488 of 488ACE,
Have you heard what Mark D. told Richard Emerson last April?? That the Church tells people and other Churches that we don't have bylaws?
If so, I can see why we should be upset. Talk about the need for transparency.
Why would Mark D. say that?
ACE said...
Unlike some people I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. If I am wrong, then I apologize. However, I believe that I'm not. Perhaps Jim can clear this up for us?
However, even if Jim isn't receiving profit from the deal, he is actively contributing to the project which is earning a profit which I don't think is right of him to do. Form your own opinion, I have stated mine.
Reply:
Then an apology from you IS IN ORDER.
1. I am not forming an opinion. I am stating TRUE FACTS.
2. The gentleman that published the book, with help from many contributors, has more money than he knows what to do with. He financed the whole project out of his own pocket. He will NEVER make a profit, because he will NEVER sell all the books that he had printed. In fact, he NEVER intended to make a profit. He is only trying to recoup some of the cost. His ONE & ONLY goal is to prevent what happened at GBC from happening to other churches.
OK ACE, your turn!!
ace said...
Checkmate,
It's not a crime to help someone write a book, especially if he has knowledge.
No, it's not a crime, but it seems a little immoral to me that they are trying to make money off of the issue.
Ace,
What's immoral is the way the "Millionaire Elders" running the church appear to treat the church as their own personal piggybank to benefit themselves and their friends. What's immoral is the fact that there are many people who live paycheck to paycheck, eating Ramon noodles, their children watching the children of the “Millionaire Elders” going on expensive vacations, driving expensive cars, going to expensive schools, etc, etc, while they faithfully give to the church, while the “Millionaire Elders" beat them over the head with legalistic rules about tithing, and then use those sacrificial gifts to further Empires and Power. Reminds of the store Nathan told to King David, about the rich man taking the poor man's one pet lamb to feed the visiting guest.
NASS,
I apologize in advance for feeding the Troll, but I’ve about had it with the self righteousness, arrogance and downright mistreatment of God’s people by this group of self appointed “leaders”, who’s main qualification seems to be the size of their personal Balance Sheets.
A church cannot be run like a business. More on this later.
DontBeatTheSheep,
You are spreading gossip,rumors and lies.I was the first to call channel 13 ,5,3 and 24.
Are you Jim? If not, why would you even take credit for such a thing? So...when did you call them? What was the date?
Here's something about the media....when you call them, you get connected to the 'Assignement Desk' - at each station, there are tons of people who answer those phones. If one doesn't think it's a newsworthy story, then they really don't do anything. Somebody could have called before you....and they did...
So when did you call them? What was the day?
I also spoke to a reporter at the CA( it was a Mr.Dowd ).And to Mike Flemming at WMC.
And your point is..? I spoke to James Dowd before...congratulations to you. Do you want a cookie?
So ace you have done what you accuse so many on this blog of you have written a letter full of ,rumors,lies and was very mean spirited.
Actually, you are wrong. Go talk to Jim about this.
Do you ever gather facts before you hit the send button,
Yes, actually, I do.
you gave NO PROOF of your allegations against MR. Haywood something YOU constantly demand from us in your post.
It was a letter I sent to Jim...he already has all the facts for himself. I just posted it here for others to read. If you want the facts, email Jim now.
Ace your anger and immaturity is showing.
Thanks for your opinion.
Churchmouse
Thanks For the list They don"t like the light turned on.Also thank you 25++ for you posting your list..Gods light will always expose the DARKNESS.I totally agree with you..Thanks again.He reigns!
>Steve Gaines tells Darrell Nephew’s Bible Study class that his favorite passage from the book, The Purpose Driven Life, is “it is not about you”.
Ezekiel,
A close family member was in the class and heard the remark.
Check Mate,
Have you heard what Mark D. told Richard Emerson last April??...Why would Mark D. say that?
No I didn't hear that. And I don't know why Mark would say that. Why don't you go ask him? He could help you out more than I ever could.
GBCer,
Then an apology from you IS IN ORDER.
If what you posted was true, then I apologize. Could you email me all the info on the book that you have? That would be appreciated.
gbcer and blog,
It blows the mind of women like Ace that there are people out there who are not money-motivated. Our pastor and associate pastor/?? (what is Mark D.'s title now?) have their heads turned by cash so they assume everyone else shares the same weakness.
Ezekial,
For what it is worth, this is a good quote from my favorite book...
Thanks for the quote! :)
Bepatient said...
To whoever is writing the book- I hope you intend to turn over all profits to your employer, or to GBC for using them to make a profit.
I'd like to see you call on Steve and Donna Gaines to turn over to Bellevue any profits they earn from their "books and tapes" that are made on Bellevue time and using Bellevue resources to produce.
I'm just making an assumption, but I bet you would be the first to rush out and defend the Gaines for profiting off those works as their rightful fruits of their labors. But yet it is somehow wrong for others to write a book and "profit" from a situation that makes you and your friends uncomfortable, as it involves a successful attempt to thwart ungodly activity in a church. Just because the "savegbc" crowd "attacked" the leadership.
or are you just throwing all this out there as a smoke screen to cast doubt on Jim Haywood, just like Sandballat and Tobiah did to Nehemiah ?
bepatient said...
To whoever is writing the book- I hope you intend to turn over all profits to your employer, or to GBC for using them to make a profit.
REPLY:
The gentleman is retired. As previously stated, there will not be any profit to give to GBC.
Dontbeatthesheep is right. Haywood did not alert the media.
financeguy,
I am referencing an earlier conversation- I apologize for not explaining the context. I do not feel that the Gaines are obligated to turn over their profits, and this guy isn't either... but so many here feel that they should turn it over. I am just wondering if they feel this way about THIS book.
bepatient,
Jim Haywood does not work for GBC and he has not used GBC facilities or time to create the book. If he wanted to profit from it he should have the right to. The truth is he isn't making anything on the book. He has helped because he believes it is the right thing to do. Simple as that.
ACE said...
If what you posted was true, then I apologize. Could you email me all the info on the book that you have? That would be appreciated.
Reply:
AAH, the infamous IF word appears.
What sort of info are you referring to?
Ace
I spoke to reporters not the assignment desk ,because I wanted the TRUE story told,unlike SG.
I'm not Jim Haywood and I could care less who you are.
Good night ace I have a job and a life and have better things to do than play with someone who sounds like an angry teenager.
BTW,I intend to continue to use the media to get the truth out.
If you think about it,there are tons of quotes Americans have in our culture that come from books not many have actually read.
DontBeatTheSheep,
I spoke to reporters not the assignment desk,because I wanted the TRUE story told,unlike SG.
How do you know that someone else didn't contact the assignment desk or another reporter? Reporters don't talk to each other about this stories, sometimes...
BTW,I intend to continue to use the media to get the truth out.
That's just lovely. Thank you in advance.
ace said...
Check Mate,
Have you heard what Mark D. told Richard Emerson last April??...Why would Mark D. say that?
No I didn't hear that. And I don't know why Mark would say that. Why don't you go ask him? He could help you out more than I ever could.
9:04 PM, January 15, 2007
ACE,
I have checked sources and Mark D. did make the statements.
What should the Church do about that?
Is that called a lie or a mistake.
Ace, I'm sure you will not answer thus.
Maybe I should rephrase that. Many have read them but many have not read them but still know the quote.
Ace said...
"...here is some advice for you. Take spelling lessons….you have too many grammatically errors on your site."
*snork snork*
*snork snork*
Yeah, I laughed at that too once I realized that error. :)
Blog gets quiet as bloggers read the last comment from crushed!!!!
Checkmate,
I have checked sources and Mark D. did make the statements.
Who are your sources? If you can't post them, feel free to email them to me - acefrombbc@gmail.com
Is that called a lie or a mistake.
I don't know - again, you should be asking Mark D. that, not me...
ace,
You really embarrased yourself this time. Jim Haywood is not selling any books. Do your homework. You are making this stuff up. There is no book. The book you are speaking of has nothing to do with Jim Haywood. Jim Haywood does reveal the truth that Steve Gaines and his inner circle have tried to hide from the congregation.
Jim Haywood has exposed Steve Gaines of misusing the credit at Bellevue both credit card and direct bill accounts. This would also include 2 airline tickets to Florida for his daughter not repaid to this day. Had it not been for Jim Haywood, we would never have known about any of this.
Jim exposed the "didn't I tick you guys off" episode posted on utube.com.
Here are a few other things exposed because of Jim Haywood:
The truth on the fence jumping that Steve Gaines, Chuck Taylor, John Caldwell,and Mark Doughtry did trespass after they initially said they didn't. Jim, thanks for the pictures to get a visual.
The truth about the wrongful dismissal of Jim Whitmire and David Smith, not to mention the others.
The truth about the fleecing of the "tour" trip Steve Gaines is doing again this year.
The truth about Union City where Steve Gaines trashed our church.
Thanks for the audio Jim.
The truth about Steve Gaine's intentions with Bellevue. Thanks for the audio Jim.
The truth about the dream episode involving Steve Gaines and Mark Doughtry.
The information on the Paul Williams fiasco.
Thank Jim for all you do. There will always be the type of leaders that operate in darkness and don't want the people to know what they do behind closed doors.
Thank you for searching for the truth for all to hear. Bellevue owes you a debt of gratitude.
Thank you for allowing a link to the blog so Ace and his friends who want to turn their back on truth can still have the freedom to speak. It's more than we can say for our church leadership. Why won't they offer an opportunity to us to speak at a business meeting?
2006 IN REVIEW
continued
October
>Bellevue college students revisit Rick Warren’s 40 Days of Purpose
>Riad Saba is told he can no longer teach his Bible Study Class
>Riad Saba refuses to give up his class. Ken Hatley sits in on the class, which is filled with Saba supporters.
>Riad Saba requests a meeting with Steve Gaines, but is referred to the newly formed Communications Committee, an opportunity he turns down.
>Harry Smith tells Riad Saba that he may continue teaching his class for the time being.
>It is announced that David Coombs will join the staff of BBC as Administrative Pastor.
>Mark Sharpe calls for the resignation of Steve Gaines in an article published in the Memphis Commercial Appeal on October 5th.
>An October 6th Commercial Appeal headline reads: “Baptists Defend Senior Pastor Against Allegations of Financial Misconduct and Deception”
I love my church said...
Dontbeatthesheep is right. Haywood did not alert the media.
The truth is, the media contacted Jim Haywood, and he said he had no interest in speaking to them, or this even appearing in the local media. You know what the reporter said to him?
"Well, we've already spoken to the church, and they gave us an on camera statement". He then felt he had no choice but to respond. I belive he shouldn't have played their game, but everyone should understand he was put in that position by Steve Gaines and Jim Barnwell.
The church leadership is the one that initiated the media coverage. It makes me angry to hear people (yes you Mike Bratton) critize Haywood for "earning extra points" by appear on local television, and it was in fact the CHURCH LEADERSHIP (presumably Jim Barnwell) who decided to try this in the media, and then sit back and let people think that Haywood and Sharpe "started it". More strategery and tactics from the "Bellevue War Room". More deceptive and immoral activity at 2000 Appling Road. When are God's People going to wake up?????
Ace
About your letter:
Until you show some concern for the fortune Steve Gaines is taking Bellevue for, I don't even want to hear mention of a penny Jim Haywood might make! HOW TWO-FACED.
Whether Jim likes the attention he's getting is beside the point. He's providing us with a sevice that, unfortunately, we NEED.
What lies have been on Jim's site?
I haven't seen anything that turned out to be lies - the credit cards turned out to be Bellevue accounts that were used for personal goods and services. What's the difference?
Your letter is like yelling "yo mama wears army boots!"
It just makes you look desperate.
ace,
You really embarrassed yourself this time. Jim Haywood is not selling any books. Do your homework. You are making this stuff up. There is no book. The book you are speaking of has nothing to do with Jim Haywood. Jim Haywood does reveal the truth that Steve Gaines and his inner circle have tried to hide from the congregation on money items.
Jim Haywood has exposed Steve Gaines of misusing the credit at Bellevue both credit card and direct bill accounts. This would also include 2 airline tickets to Florida for his daughter not repaid to this day. Had it not been for Jim Haywood, we would never have known about any of this.
Jim exposed the "didn't I tick you guys off" episode posted on utube.com.
Here are a FEW other things exposed because of Jim Haywood:
The truth on the fence jumping that Steve Gaines, Chuck Taylor, John Caldwell, and Mark Doughtry did trespass after they initially said they didn't. Jim, thanks for the pictures to get a visual.
The truth about the wrongful dismissal of Jim Whitmire and David Smith, not to mention the others.
The truth about the fleecing of the "tour" trip Steve Gaines is doing again this year.
The truth about Union City where Steve Gaines trashed our church.
Thanks for the audio Jim.
The truth about Steve Gaine's intentions with Bellevue. Thanks for the audio Jim.
The truth about the dream episode involving Steve Gaines and Mark Doughtry.
The information on the Paul Williams fiasco.
Thank Jim for all you do. There will always be the type of leaders that operate in darkness and don't want the people to know what they do behind closed doors.
Thank you for searching for the truth for all to hear. Bellevue owes you a debt of gratitude.
Thank you for allowing a link to the blog so Ace and his friends who want to turn their back on truth can still have the freedom to speak. It's more than we can say for our church leadership. Why won't they offer an opportunity to us to speak at a business meeting?
Trump,
I didn't read your entire post, but stopped when I got to:
This would also include 2 airline tickets to Florida for his daughter not repaid to this day.
That's a lie. We covered this SO many times before.... Gaines tried to pay it back but that was considered a moving expense and it wasn't a ticket to Florida, but to Memphis.
Get your facts straight.
ace said...
Checkmate,
I have checked sources and Mark D. did make the statements.
Who are your sources? If you can't post them, feel free to email them to me - acefrombbc@gmail.com
Is that called a lie or a mistake.
I don't know - again, you should be asking Mark D. that, not me...
9:24 PM, January 15, 2007
ACE,
My sources are the two men, Mark D. and Richard Emerson. You call them yourself. But again you still havent answered my question.
What should the Church say to Mark D. for telling people that Bellevue doesn't have bylaws??
I'm through here, good night.....
I have better things to do with my time than to constantly defend myself from about 10 people here all at once.
I'm getting off the computer. If you want to send me something that requires my attention, send it to acefrombbc@gmail.com otherwise I am not guaranteeing a reply.
Thanks...and goodbye for now.
I cannot believe the level of joy so many of you are taking in the troubles of Bellevue. I find it shocking & Satanic in nature and you are encouraging others to join you in your church destroying activity by attacking another pastor at another church because he's going to have Dr Gaines participate in a Pastor's conference. I am a past member of Bellevue, who loved Dr. Rogers, & loved Dr. Gaines while I was there; I am now a member of First Baptist Jacksonville & am growing to love Dr Brunson. I am reminded of teachings I have hear from all three pastors, teachings based on the Paul's words, of how we are to love one another in Christ, that we are to help one another, to build one another up, not tear each other down. I see a lot of people here apparently afraid to reveal who they are; will you deny the teachings of Christ in how we are to behave to one another as you deny who you are and what you say? Please, please, realize the world is watching us, and all you are doing is giving them every reason to continue to reject Christ, to reject 'Christian' fellowship because we're showing them we are only too eager to devour our own. I pray God's mercy on all of us, His forgiveness, His grace, that by denying ourselves & humbling ourselves to follow His direction that He will bless us beyond our imaginings.
I have one question: since so many of you are so vocal about your opposition to Dr. Gaines, exactly who is you want at Bellevue, disregarding the fact that Dr Rogers felt Dr Gaines was God's choice for the church, the Pastor's Search Committee came to a individually seperate conclusion & unanimous decision he was God's choice for the church, and a unanimous approval from the congregation. What have your prayers led you to decide on who should lead Bellevue? Is it your right to determine who leads 'your' church?
ace said...
DontBeatTheSheeep
Reporters don't talk to each other about this stories, sometimes...
ace check out your grammar on this one
ezekiel said..
Dad always told me that if you always tell the truth, you don't have to remember every lie you tell.
AMEN, AMEN & AMEN!!!!!!!!!
With that, GOOD NIGHT!!
I feel for all who are caught up in the political, conscience controling reach of the so called called men of God of who Steve Gains is one in the Bond of CASH!! I saw this mees coming when the Good Ol Boys took over the S Baptist convention. Most of you on this blog joined them in the trumpted up strawman that they were saving the S Baptist church from all of those terible people who did not believe the Bible.What they really did was throw out the idea that congregations could be ruled by the people in favor of PREACHER ruled churches.While they were at it they sought to destroy the Baptist idea that ALL believers are Priest.With all of this done they are now taking aim at the prize of the Roman church before the Reformation--- YOUR MONEY! WAKE up folks. I am somewhat encouraged that you are standing up to SGains. Now why don't you become students of history. You can start with the Movie Luther and keep it up with a careful study of Church History. The sad truth is that you might find that your denomanation has been taken over and is being ruled by clergy that are so much like those in Rome before Luther it is Scary. These guys a slick and know how to pull your emotional strings.THe reason they can is simple . YOU have become a people who know very little and who wish to know not much more.I know I was in your world when the take over took place. I am so thankful that God showed me a way out.
The search committe was a farce. He was not the unanimous choice. Some agreed to him when it was obvious others (like the Caldwells) would never have anyone other than Steve.
Dr. Rogers knew he made a huge mistake before he died. The Rogers family are not supporting Steve Gaines, that should tell you something. You cannot know what we are dealing with by skimming the blog. It takes hours to figure these things out.
No one expected we would find another Lee, Pollard, or Rogers. We just wanted honesty, integrity, and doctrinal purity. We do not expect perfection.
ezekiel-
I get what you are saying but I think maybe sometimes we see what we want to see and read too much into things. I can honestly say I have NEVER read a Warren book- maybe that is why I am still trying to sort out the whole purpose driven issue. However, I know the quote that was referenced. So, is it possible others could know it without reading it, too? That's all. Hey guys- I would still love some kind of response to my questions I posted earlier to help sort through this purpose driven mess. Thanks!
Ace
About the salary:
Craig Parker quit his job in finance at Bellevue after seeing the ridiculously large compensation package.
This was his main concern along with other things. Give Mark Sharpe a ring. This is who he went to about it. This is why Mark Sharpe was silenced. It all boils down to money in the end, for Gaines,AND those close to him.
be patient said:
Is there anything that any of you actually DO like about Steve Gaines or don't find fault with his handling of?
I genuinely want to know.
be patient
I thought it was a good idea to extend the invitation beyond the benediction. He said there would be ministers still down front to receive anyone who wanted to come forward as the congregation was leaving.
I thoought that was a good idea. :)
Galen,
I appreciate your spirit, but you must understand things are not as they seem. You should agree that Satan can sit on either or both sides of the pulpit. There is something fundamentaly wrong at Bellevue, and the behavior of the church leadership in covering up and denying and resisting any biblically based concerns on the part of the flock, while treating individual church members in a very un-Christlike manner, makes you question their motives and intent.
The world is watching as you say. You should know that the World already knows we are sinners and imperfect. We have Haggart, Swaggart and others to thank for that. What the World needs to see is how we handle conflict. The church leadership has made it all but impossible for Biblically based conflict resolution in this situation. All that's left is for God's people, such as you, to pray for us. Please recognise the turmoil we are going through when you post comments directed at us. It's not as simple as you describe.
Crushed said...
I would still love some kind of response to my questions I posted earlier to help sort through this purpose driven mess. Thanks!
I worshipped (or more correctly, attempted to worship) at a PD Church for several years. If you have any specific questions, I may be able to help.
galen horton
I don't care if God brought Gaines here or not. It does not excuse his actions since he came.
Now that I've gotten to know many of the men that brought him here, I would be surprised, though, if God had anything to do with it.
As for how this looks to non-christians: I hope they see us holding our own accountable. It's when these guys get away with it that the kingdom bears a blemish.
Galen Horton - why is it Satanic to ask questions about what a new pastor is doing and why he is doing it? Is he above being held accountable? Isn't it logical people might have some concerns and questions. Why are good people immediately labeled as "attacking" someone simply because they are asking a question. If you don't know what I am talking about, try questioning ANYTHING your new pastor is doing and see what kind of reply you get. Regardless of the question you ask, you will immediately be perceived just as you perceived everyone on this blog. Galen - the key issues are accountability and transparency. It seems mega-church pastors have little of this and get very defensive if anyone questions anything. Please don't feel you are rushing to the defense of God's man. You need only to check out the links on the Bob Gray/Trinity Baptist child molestor stories in Jacksonville to know that you are in the majority. The knee jerk reaction is to defend these men, no matter what they do. It is the men who stand up against these guys that need the support. Tom Messer is still the pastor at Trinity. If he were coming to speak at the conference in Jax, would you support him also?
I certainly take no joy in this mess. It is sickening to me and all the while the fleecing of the sheep continues.
The church shut down dissent, refused to allow Mark Sharpe to address the deacons and spread lies about him. Steve was so arrogant he thought he could get away with all of that. He also thought he could get away with keeping a pedophile on staff, even though he was encouraged to fire him in June. Steve brought all of this heat upon himself and now he has an unwinnable war on his hands. This conflict will never end until integrity is restored in our leadership. If 29,999 people leave BBC, I will stay and fight these guys.
If we start running $70 million in receipts and 60,000 in worship, there will still be people who know the truth and know what a church is supposed to be. They will never let anyone forget your sordid past. BBC leaders can't run over people, intimidate people, ignore Scripture, and spread lies without paying the price.
Hear me Bellevue leaders, this will NEVER go away until you do the right thing.
be patient said:
Why do you want your tithe kept secret?
Piglet says:
Tithe is anact oflove and obedience between me and God. If I tithe as the price of admission,I don't get the blessing.
The salary is between the employer (us) and the employee (Gaines).
Very different issue. If is made public, it can't get ridiculous, now can it?
Quotes from gbcsaved.com:
"This is the only book I know of that deals with an almost complete record of the attempt to convert a church to Calvinism from within and how it failed."
"HOW TO TRANSITION (CHANGE) AN ESTABLISHED CHURCH TO A HYPER/CALVANISTIC DICTATORIAL ORGANIZATION"
"I apologize for this document’s inclusion on the website but I am doing it to show each of you that if you stand up for your faith and resist a takeover of your church by the CALVINIST, you can expect criticism and accusations from your pastor and other members of your church. If your church has not been infected with the cancer of CALVINISM, log on to HOW TO TRANSITION AN ESTABLISHED CHURCH to see how this 6 lesson plan is supposed to work."
"Why was there so little growth in this period? ... I believe it was due to the use of the new members classes to promote Calvinism"
(Wait a minute... isn't this guy against church growth?)
I can't believe the hate that is on this website towards Calvinists. Calvinism is a cancer? Calvinist pastors are dictators?
I love my church - thank you for your post. My spirit was lifted by your commitment and conviction to fight. Just when I thought it was hopeless, you remind me that there will always be hope as long as someone is willing to dissent against these arrogant fleecers of the Lord's flock. More power to you!
astounded-
Thanks! I posted earlier that I read the link Saving Bellevue has to an article about FBC Daytona. Then, I went to their church website and saw where the pastor actually addressed the concerns of the congregation in an document on the home page. (Which I found refreshing that a pastor would respond.) He also included a letter of resignation from a staff member that was accusing the pastor of many things with a response under "additional ministries" on the web site. astounded- would you mind reading these and let me know what you think? Dr. Cox really challenged what I thought I believed with his response. Maybe since you have "been there", you could help. Thanks!
I love my church said:
"He also thought he could get away with keeping a pedophile on staff, even though he was encouraged to fire him in June. "
encouraged by whom may I ask?
bunkerhill
Do you believe in the inerrancy of scripture? This is what the upheaval in the SBC was about.
Reguardless of the PW details and outcome we must each guard our own heart and children. Develop their self-worth and self-confidence. Listen to them...they're "talking" even when they're silent.
-----
FRONTLINE EXPLORES ONE FAMILY'S CONFRONTATION WITH CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE BY CATHOLIC CLERGY
FRONTLINE presents
HAND OF GOD
Tuesday, January 16, 2007, at 9 P.M. ET on PBS
www.pbs.org/frontline/handofgod
If you think you know the story of child abuse by Catholic priests, I encourage you to put that judgment aside until you have seen "Hand of God" this Tuesday night. The scandal has rocked the Church in this country and in many other places around the world. In the U.S. alone more than 10,000 children were reportedly abused. But it is a truism of reporting that such numbers, like the casualties in any disaster, can make eyes glaze over unless there is an identifiable individual story among the many. "Hand of God" tells just such a story.
2006 IN REVIEW
continued
November
>Deacons report direct billing charges made to the church’s account for Steve Gaines’s daughter’s birthday party at Colonial Country Club. This was discovered as they examined church credit receipts. The charge was repaid. The activity is illegal – commingling of funds.
>It is discovered that Steve Gaines made a charge to the church in the amount of $507.88 for his wife and a friend to stay at the Hilton Inn. Although this charge was also repaid, the activity is considered commingling of funds and is illegal for a non profit organization.
>It is learned that BBC is funding and facilitating the production of a Donna Gaines Bible Study series that will be marketed nationwide. Steve and Donna own a private corporation called “Hope for Your Future Inc.”, which is producing the videos.
>Church members witness David Coombs buying wine for a relative at a restaurant within one mile of BBC.
>BBC Executive Staff Expense Reimbursement Policy Summary is revised. (November6) This legalizes the church’s having furnished an automobile for Steve Gaines.
>Steve Gaines asks deacons to sign a loyalty pledge.
>Further study determines that personal charges have been made on church credit cards. Some charges have been repaid.
>BBC donates $25,000 to First United Methodist Church after the building is destroyed by fire. The building was insured.
>The wisdom of the FUMC donation is questioned by many Bellevue members because FUMC’s minister, Martha Wagley, is pro-choice and pro-homosexual.
>Life Choices responds to Bellevue’s $25,000 donation to a pro-choice ministry.
>Guards are posted at restroom doors during Thursday nights’ i2 Memphis services after couples are discovered having intimate relations there.
finance guy
I've been wanting to ask you how you know a labyrinth is part of the plans for the new prayer facility?!!!
Haven't seen you since you dropped that bomb....
bepatient,
Some in the room with Steve and PW last June. I will not go into more detail on the blog. However, I know for sure Steve was encouraged to fire PW.
Ace,
Are you a Holy Spirit filled believer in Jesus Christ?
If so, tell me how you came to meet Jesus and what you're learning these days.
Andrew
Andrew
fall said- DEAR BELLEVUE MEMBERS WENT TO GERMANTOWN BAPTIST LAST NIGHT.FOLKS IT WAS A SPIRIT FILLED SERVICE.DR.MIKE SPRADLIN PREACHED A GREAT SERMON,NO SPIN MEISTERS NO GESTAPO GUARDS AT ENTRANCES,NO APPLAUSES,BROTHER JIM WHITMIRE (WHAT A BLESSING TO BE LED IN MUSIC BY HIM AGAIN!)NO PRAISE TEAM.IF GOD LEADS YOU PLEASE COME VISIT A SUNDAY SERVICE .SAW DAVID SMITH BOTH HE AND DR MIKE SPRADLIN WERE OPEN SMILING, GENUINE EVEN SAW MEN I USED TO PLAY FOOTBALL WITH IN HIGH SCHOOL,OTHER FOLKS FROM BELLEVUE WHO LIKE ME HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION TO CROSS THAT RIVER.JUST AN OPEN LETTER TO YOU BROTHERS AND SISTERS ABOUT THE BLESSING OF GETTING AWAY FROM ALL THE COVER UPS,DECEIT FROM LEADERSHIP AND BEING IN A GODLY SERVICE WHERE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU CAN WORSHIP GOD IN. ITS GREAT I FEEL AT PEACE THERE.I HAVE BEEN AT BELLEVUE FOR OVER 15 YEARS AND I SUGGEST YOU JUST VISIT GBC LIKE I DID THEN LET GOD LEAD YOU EITHER WAY.PEACE TOU YOU ALL.HE REIGNS.....!
REPLY- Guess what? We also had a wonderful Spirit filled service at Bellevue Sunday. Actually 3 of them. Jamie brought us into worship and Dr. Gaines preached 2 great sermons. Regardless of what you and others might say, God is active at Bellevue and is doing a mighty work dispite everything that is going on.
Also, what is your problem/point about security guards at Bellevue? I thought you went there for 15 years? The guards are nothing new.
As far as GBC and other churches. Everyone should go where God leads them and where they are being fed.
Your post would have been ok, besides all the jabs at Bellevue and Dr. Gaines etc through the entire thing. If you want to go to GBC, that is great, but why continue to tear down Bellevue? Why?
Tim,
you can poke fun all you want. It doesn't hurt my feelings. I am just curious why you feel the need to belittle us?
churchmouse- YOUR list needs to be edited. Several things are wrong and some are lies.
bepatient- It seems they cannot help themselves. They do it everyday. It seems like their "truth" would stand on it's own and they would not have to stoop to the levels many on here do.
Hey,
Well, my Sunday beat both of y'alls--I laid in Bed till 11, then read Borges over Indian buffet.
churchmouse
Thanks for that valuable timeline! With ALL that has happened, it is easy to lose track.
Wear 4545's lie accusation as a badge of courage. Just means you struck a nerve.
(Us mice and piggies got to stick together) :)
4545,
Again I would like to know if you have ever taken Phil Weatherwax's anger management class?
Tim, please tell me how I have tried to cause trouble on this site. Is it because I challenged you on what you heard Gaines say the other night when you said you weren't really paying attention to him?
Tim,
That is pretty mean-spirited.
This is a BBC open forum. We are BBC members, we have as much right to be here as anyone else. We are stating our opinions. They are no less valid than anyone else's opinions.
4545
Have you ever found yourself in disagreement with an authority in your life?
Andrew
and yes there is a website called faithinbellevue.com.
The site was created to let people tell of the wonderful stories they have about Bellevue and how it has ministered to them. True, there is no room for negativity onthat site, but only ask for great stories about Dr. Rogers, prayer requests, and just how it has ministered to its members.
With all the negitivty out there about BBC, it is good to relay the positive as well.
and if someone has a problem with that site, then they do not have to visit.
allofgrace,
"well it's a cinch SG isn't a Calvinist...and I don't think Sam Shaw is either...but I do believe they both subcribe to a seeker-sensitive, church growth movement syle of church."
I went to GBC, and Sam Shaw was indeed a Calvinist.
churchmouse said- Steve Gaines asks deacons to sign a loyalty pledge.
REPLY- 100% lie!
Piglet said...
finance guy
I've been wanting to ask you how you know a labyrinth is part of the plans for the new prayer facility?!!!
Piglet,
I haven't been around. Mrs. FG and the little FG's have had my attention of late.
To answer your question, a document was passed (mailed?) out soon after SG came to Bellevue that had a diagram of the lobby of this prayer building with a labyrinth on it. Also, slides were shown on the IMAG that had it. I've looked around my desk for that mailout without success. I'm pretty sure i kept it, and if I come across it, I'll try to get it scanned in and avaliable. I know I saw it, because it jumped out at me at the time, but there was no blog, and SG was still in his "honeymoon" period.
Tim thats sounds alittle threatening to me.
"(Us mice and piggies got to stick together) :)"
Don't forget about us friendly trolls. ;)
Crushed
I visited the FBC Daytona website. The document that Dr. Cox and his response are, in my opinion smokescreens and really do not touch on any of the important aspects of the PD movement.
While many of the points described in the document may point to the attempt of people to introduce a congregation to PD doctrine, it omits what actually happens once the PD doctrine is entrenched.
The PD aspects that I have personally experienced are as follows:
Marketing
PDL is an elaborate marketing scheme. It is based on bringing the masses of "unchurched" people into the church. While I see no problem with this, the problem arises when services and doctrine is carefully devised in order not to "offend" any of these prospective new members. Through the countless services I personally experienced, there is very little, if any, discussion of the consequences of sin and the need to walk in the spirit of Christ. The most popular phrase that I become most concerned with in the church I attended was "We don't shoot our wounded". The overall concept of sin was that we are all sinners and while sin is not desirable, we all do it and we must not make people feel uncomfortable because their sins may be different from our sins. Shortly after attend, I got the feelings that the sins of the sinner are actually embraced. Special classes are regularly held on Sunday nights for psychological of specific sins. Some examples:
Alchoholics' Anonymous
Teen Anon
Sexual Addiction
Internet Pornography Addiction
It seems like the PDC is intent on counseling the unchurched with how to cope with their, which is not in itself a bad thing.
The huge problem comes from the point that there is little effort taken to convict the unchurched of there sins and to provide the unchurched a plan for turning from that sin.
In other words, the church I attended spent precious time spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. the sermons would go for weeks on end without even the mention of Jesus Christ.
If you would like to know more I can fill you in on some other troubling aspect I came to realize such as:
New Member Class details
Self Importance of people
Discovery of spiritual gifts
Financial committments of members
Tim would you mind if I sent you an email?
Memphis,
It is on the profile. Send away.
allofgrace,
"gug,
as I said..."..I don't think Sam Shaw is a Calvinist."...I don't know Sam Shaw personally...I based that on what a GBC member described to me as to what was going on there under his leadership...sounded PD to me...all the reformed/calvinist people I know personally...including me...are dead-set against the PD/seeker-sensitive movement."
Yeah, some people don't know that about him but he was indeed a Calvinist. He was a product of the change in many SBC seminaries to Calvinism.
Go and read his blog:
http://www.samshawonline.com/
Just look at the second post on the page.
"God hates not only the wicked deeds and thoughts of people, but He hates the wicked person himself."
Now what Arminian or seeker-sensitive preacher would say that?
Read some of the blog and it shouldn't take you long to realize Dr. Shaw was an unabashed Calvinist.
I don't support everything he did, but I did like his theology.
Also, I am not "dead set" against the "seeker-sensitive" movement and I am Reformed/Calvinist. I don't like a lot of things about it but I'm not one to paint with a broad brush.
allofgrace,
"Well there ain't a lot of love for Calvinists at BBC either LOL."
That's not altogether true. The EE guy at BBC is a Calvinist. Dr. Gaines himself seems like he's almost there but can't get over the limited atonement and certain things about irresistible grace. But if you listen to some sermons like "I Believe in Salvation," it seems to me that while he doesn't agree with Calvinists on everything he doesn't hate them and wants to work alongside them.
Folks,
I thought you might like to know that Ace e-mailed me a little after 9:00 tonight and asked that I not delete his "sincere" letter to Jim Haywood because he doesn't know why I "often delete [his] posts when it creates such a stir." Then he apologized "for the reaction of the other people." Not for his words but for your reactions to his words!
Since I hadn't caught up on my reading at the time, it was up for almost two hours before I saw it. Several of you amply responded, so I don't feel any need to take it down now. Ace has shown his true colors tonight, and I'd like to ask that in the future we all just ignore his comments. It isn't Jim Haywood who's craving attention! It's Mr. Ace, and he's had quite enough.
Thanks to everyone for your prompt and informative responses.
NBBCOF
graceupongrace said...
The EE guy at BBC is a Calvinist.
Nope. Try again.
I know the "EE guy" and he's no Calvinist.
truthsleuth,
Hm, someone had said on this blog before that he was, I guess it was another bit of misinformation. FWIW EE was started by a Calvinist though (D. James Kennedy).
allofgrace,
Ahah, that must have been what I read. Thanks for clearing it up.
(That's kind of a dumb reason not to do EE huh?)
Anyway, on to the next thread.
ATTENTION!
THERE'S A NEW THREAD AVAILABLE. PLEASE MOVE UP!
Thank you,
NBBCOF
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