This letter was written to the deacons by fellow deacon, Dr. Michael Pruett.
Several responses have been written, some of which are featured here.
1. "Concerned's" response.
2. Sister Pam Gremillion's response.
3. "Misdiagnosis"
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218 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 218 of 218AOG,
I agree. I think that is why some hate to fill in the blank. It is one step away from being numb.
What happened to a fluid relationship with Jesus. Are we all in a 12 step program?
I am not afraid of lifting up the least of these - however, the discussion seems to revolve around the church being structured for the believer or the budding believer.
telos,
My understanding of the church...is a called out church...a regenerate church..it exists for the building up of the saints to do the work of the church...I've never understood it to be an entertainment venue for sinners. The church is to go out into the world with the gospel...not attract the world to the church by adjusting it's practices to suit the fleshly desires of carnal men.
Reply:
What is entertainment? I enjoy Dr. Rogers because I am entertained by his sicerity and creativity in getting across the word. I am entertained, for lack of a better word, because his explanations are alive in His word.
I think the Spirit has many colors - De Colores. I am confused by setting parameters for Christ.
The word is the word. The blood was shed at Calvary. Does it matter if I worship harmonically in duple or triple meter?
I dont think we should compromise the word. I just dont think we limit its expression to one style. Is this not liver and onions?
AOG,
Good night!
For the record, I dont think one entices with material goods... How sad. I dont think all music is appropiate.
The path is narrow.
Repentence and surrender to His will are key.
In His Love
AOG,
One last thing. It is about worship. I ask, is all worship limited to a certain rhythm and meter? Are all rhythms with quick tempos of the flesh? If so, are parts of Handel's Messiah unacceptable?
Blessings
To All,
An interesting article on what is a regenerate church. I think some focus should be given to the third to the last paragraph....
http://www.baptistdistinctives.org/textonly10.html
telos said...
AOG,
...but I believe assurance comes from submission to the Lordship of Christ.
submission = surrender
12:34 AM, January 17, 2007
Just a total random thought from a guy whose been sharing what you just said to Arabic speakers for a decade.
I also heard this on Glenn Beck (!!! go figure??)
Do you know the Arabic word for what you just said? Do you know how to conjugate that word? You may know more Arabic grammar than you think if you say "no."
You can just tuck this away and use it if you happen to be witnessing to a Muslim. (hint hint).
It has been good to read the comments about regenerate churches and about the struggle between control and surrender. Someone mentioned Romans 7 (which is a perfect example of this). I have recently been listening to a sermon series online by John Piper that speaks to this...it is called "Who is this divided man?" You can listen to it free on oneplace.com
I appreciated the John Broadus quote. I think that to help Bellevue and begin to glorify God is this situation that we all need to examine ourselves, confess the sins in our own lives and begin to pray for the church body, the Bride. I know that many of you are already doing this.
Does anyone know if there are any groups that meet to pray specifically in this manner?
LibertyInChrist said...
...
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN.
This is the interpretation of the matter: MENE, God has numbered the days of Gaine's Kingdom!!"
Absurd.
Simply absurd.
I'll have to check back today to see if any of the "regulars" here condemn the egregious (not to mention clumsy) abuse and misuse of Scripture by Mr. Sundquist, or whoever that poster is.
If you're attempting to equate Pastor Gaines and Belshazzar, Mr. Sundquist (or whoever you are), perhaps you didn't bother to read how the Bible characterized Belshazzar. In case you didn't, I quote it thusly, and like so:
Daniel 5
22 And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this; 23 But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified.
Also, perhaps you didn't realize that not too long after Daniel's interpretation of the "writing on the wall," Belshazzar was killed.
Or, perhaps you did.
--Mike
Mike,
I agree with you on this. Just as it was inappropriate for the pastor to equate BBC members with Tobiah and Sandallat, Mr. Sundquist's characterization was inappropriate for the same reasons.
This kind of overheated rhetoric is unseemly and must stop from both sides. If we cannot be kind to one another, can we ever reconcile? Should we even try?
Dear Andrew: Let me try to respond. I saw your inquiry last night but I was not able to type. It was hard to type crying as much as I was. I am not ashamed to admit that I am given to moments crying. It does help heal. This story was all so real too me. So much of what he documented, happened in my case. I could have written his script.
One thing of note. Many, many victims' lives are just like his. I could be a carbon copy.
As I said in an earlier post, we are ALL guilty of sin, and even moral failures. But this matter is a criminal matter and that is the difference. Bottom line. And it is a criminal matter to NOT report it. Ignorance, being a clergy member, etc are not valid or legal excuses.
I am still broken up and wounded by viewing this story. If anyone missed it please check with WKNO. It is going to be aired again. Did anyone notice how much it affected his family and friends? See there are more people harmed than just the victim.
Please be in prayer for us. God bless you.
westtnbarrister said...
Mike,
I agree with you on this. Just as it was inappropriate for the pastor to equate BBC members with Tobiah and Sandallat, Mr. Sundquist's characterization was inappropriate for the same reasons.
Was there a direct, make-no-bones-about-it equation in Pastor Gaines' remarks, or are others making an extrapolation? I'm asking for information's sake, since I don't recall the specifics of his remarks.
This kind of overheated rhetoric is unseemly and must stop from both sides.
Which is a marvelous opportunity to congratulate Jim Haywood on his public apology with regard to an "overheated" photographic analogy he made in the recent past.
If we cannot be kind to one another, can we ever reconcile?
No. And some are not interested in reconciliation, which is more than unfortunate.
Should we even try?
Yes. We are obligated to try.
--Mike
Mike,
I agree we are obligated to try. And anyone unwilling to try to reconcile our church should leave.
I do not believe we should ignore the truth for the sake of reconciliation. Who wants to be united in a lie? There is no biblical support for that concept.
Jesus was the most divisive man to ever live. He even divided time! It is clear that disagreement is not unbiblical. However, I believe there is a right way and a wrong way to disagree. We should still be kind to one another. We should avoid rhetoric designed to escalate and inflame the dispute. Comparing Bellevue members to the most vile pagans mentioned in Scripture is not the way to fight our battles.
All Bellevue members, regardless of their viewpoint, should want the truth so they can make proper judgments on the events of the past year.
Right now we have too many open questions for anyone to trust they know the truth about many questions with tremendous certainty. Only those intimately involved know the truth. Without the truth we will never be able to reconcile.
Just my opinion
For what it's worth - My father is a former Catholic (saved at a Billy Graham crusade long before he married my mother in 1964). His take on the Frontline story was he totally agreed that the priests are treated like and act like gods, the priests were revered since they had "direct access to God" and the whole mess with the Catholic church totally makes him sick. I'm so glad he wasn't harmed by a priest and I have a Christian daddy. For those of you who know me and him, don't you agree?? :)
karen
Karen,
I know you, your mom, and your dad. I'm glad your dad was saved and your family is saved. God was merciful in protecting your father and drawing him to Him. Your dad always has a great smile and attitude ready for anyone he sees. Praise the Lord and God Bless you.
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