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About Me
- New BBC Open Forum
- This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church and the SBC can come to comment and exchange ideas. Anonymous comments are welcome, but it is respectfully requested that instead of choosing the "Anonymous" option those who want to post comments without logging in select a unique screen name. This lets everyone tell the difference between one anon and another without revealing any personal information. Under the box where you compose your comment where it says "Choose an identity," just check "Name/URL" and type in the screen name of your choice. You can leave the URL field blank. It would be helpful if you'd use the same screen name for any subsequent comments. This makes reading and following discussions easier, helps avoid confusion, and doesn't result in one person being credited for writing something s/he didn't. Comments by posters whose only purpose is to disrupt (i.e. trolls) will be subject to deletion. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
784 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 784 of 784David,
You said
"This young man has more integrity that the leadership of Bellevue. He knew how to deal with this and he did ask why. But the leadership ignored his pleas. How shameful."
I don't understand...PW was suspended within days from the time the son approached SG.
James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Never go to Jamie Fish does not have a heart for hurting people. never go to Bibical guidance. Go to a stranger or a friend, who fears the L-RD, and hates it when people hurt other people. Bibical guidence does not know you and they do not care for you.
especially someone who is white but not white enough. That is what my friend thinks so.
Proverbs 12:22 ¶ Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.
Overflow: I am not going to get into any debate with anyone tonight.
Action should have happened in June, that is what the report does say. And I agree with it. You don't agree with the report?
David Brown
NoName,
Never go to Jamie Fish does not have a heart for hurting people.
This is a lie. Many people here will testify against this. Jamie Fish is one of the most godly men I know and I take offense from this statement. You do not know where Jamie's heart is at, so don't pretend you do.
Bibical guidence does not know you and they do not care for you.
More lies.
Mr Brown,
Perhaps you may confirm that the investigation finding no evidence of further abuse is not an indicator that it didn't happen.
Such incidents may remain secrets well into adulthood, because shame, fear of the stigma and painful recollections silence victims.
I was in my 30's before I sought councelling.
Proverbs 26:28 ¶ A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.
I have to say that I was very encouraged by the sermon tonight.
If I didn't know better, I would think Steve Gaines does not want IDC,INC. to give up in the face of obstacles and persecution.
Press on, brothers and sisters! :)
"Thanks for confirming this. I was attack yesterday when I said they would be there. I was told I lied and it is a fact that media is not allowed."
I think it was more or less a question of why the media could record but the members could not. I think you may be exaggerating a bit.
I am starting to think you have a Napoleon complex by the way you are always thinking everything is an 'attack'. You provoke certain responses because of how you word things. Example: suggesting that someone just wanted a cut of the money when they suggested that people support IDC monetarily. Then you started backtracking when confronted trying to make us believe you really meant something else.
And no, I will not engage you in your response to this. Some on here think you are funny or cute, I do not. I think you are representative of how this leadership thinks. IF anything, you give us an insight into them. Example: David Coombs response to 'sickofthelies'. Sounds a bit like ACE to me.
I think you are here for a reason and I really believe you are connected in some way to leadership. Probably 'somebody's' son.
I happen to know from scripture that what happened at Bellevue is very sick and an example of how far the church in the West has slidden into Sodom. The response by your leaders is an example of just how much we have brought 'worldly' thinking into the Body of Christ.
When reputations are more important than protecting children, a wake up call needs to be sounded. You are hearing it.
Do you feel the love? I hope so, because it is a rebuke. In the same vein as 'White washed tomb'.
David,
I agree with the report and I have my concerns. I really was just asking a question about your post. What you posted was not accurate. At this point I think we have to forgive and move on. I thought the report came down hard on PW. When they mentioned that he had been molested as well, I took it that he is a victim in need of our prayers also. SG is right...this is a different day.
icu nurse to doc bellevue, I am not sure that I understand your point. I am versed in the scripture that you’ve posted. I don’t think that you have the least understanding of the scripture which you’ve made reference.
Just for a brief edification on clarification of that scripture for you. Paul is writing to the church whereby members are taking other members into civil court. What is the aim of this scripture is to teach us that if we have a legal matter with another brother that we should work this situation out within the confines of the church rather than going to the civil courts which are outside the church. The point being is that if we as fellow Christians should be able to resolve our difference with one another within our faith. We have the Word of God and love one for another to help us resolve these issues. If we resort to the civil courts then what does that say about our faith and fellowship.
Many posters have opted for this matter to be in the civil courts…..now that would be a way to utilize this scripture. This scripture is not advocating us judging one another in the manner you are thinking.
Friends,
Where does one begin when discussing the nature of things?
First, I have been keeping tabs on the posts. Well handled, all. Well done. Your discernment and your ability to act under God's leadership and example is amazing.
Second, I take a stand, here and now, against what is happening inside BBC and the SBC. This disease, this plague will not stop spreading unless the true warriors for Christ step up. Those of you who support the stand against Warrenism and the wrong doings of Sr. Pastor Steve Gaines and select members of his administration, I commend you. You have all acted with dignity, honor, and courage in the face of the wolf in sheep skin.
Lastly, it is my prayer that all of us continue to grow together with the Holy Spirit as He leads us with the Cloud by day and the Pillar of Fire by night. May His will be known to all of us in His time.
Sickofthelies, keep pressing on. You are an awesome lady for our Lord. He is proud of the stand you took tonight. Josh, man, way to go. Your leadership and level headedness has been an inspiration and a constant throughout this struggle. Westtnbarrister, God be with you. All of us are. Allofgrace, bless you.
All of you out there, I pray each and every day for all of you. I pray you will all continue to show the true mirth of Christianity. Remember, even though the battle is already over, we haven't fought the last fight until Jesus Christ descends and takes His throne.
This young warrior for Christ is with you all. God bless.
Overflowing,
So given the report that at least 10 people knew exactly what had happened and took no action do you still feel like leaving PW on the payroll and not immediately terminating him was O.K.? Also in the report was how CW kept his own children away from PW doesn't that make you long even more for PW to have been terminated immediately? TN is a right to hire-fire state. No reason was necessary to fire him however we now know based on tonight's report that several people knew of a really good reason to fire him post-haste.
Just My Opinion,
And I wonder if it has occurred to you that there might be a little boy, maybe even more, out there that might possibly have been molested by Williams between June 2006 and December 15, 2006 under the roof of Bellevue Church? One thing to be remembered here is that just because they have not found a victim does not mean there isn't one. Look how long it took Williams' son to come forward! I am sure David Brown could fill us in on this. I think you and others need to be careful in assuming there are no other victims. Children are afraid to come forward. And if there are...certain people are to held accoutable for it. You all heard those names tonight.
Proverbs 27:5 ¶ Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Dear Trollcates: You are right. I was a coward and did not address my abuse for over 35 years. We simply do not create an environment for victims to feel comfortable in speaking out. Look at this case in hand.
It appears as if the leadership was more interested in protecting the "tight circle". Why? It doesn't take a genius or someone with extensive training in these matters to know what to do.
We have had a very good policy and procedure manual in effect for many years. It is called the Holy Bible, Word of God, the Sacred Scriptures.
Folks I getting off here and i am going spend some time in it now. When it was publically disclosed that this dear victim suffered his abuse for 12 to 18 months, it ripped me open again. My abuse was brought back up to me again. But don't fret, I know I need time in God's Word.
God bless and take care.
David Brown
NASS: you've got mail
David: Thank you for your vigilance in this matter. We really appreciate you.
Sickofthelies: I am so sorry for what you had to endure tonight :(
I had several comments after attending tonight's service and meeting:
DC said "incident" in regards to the abuse. I would say for abuse spanning 12-18 months the correct word would be "incidents"
I love JF but this was a major lapse in judgement. I'm just a nobody but I know these things have to be reported. It's pretty cut and dried. I am extremely disappointed at the lack of common sense and, as a previous poster said, the answer was right there, in black and white....in the BIBLE! If SG does not search for all the answers (not just the ones he wants to hear, or the nice ones) and his staff neglects to as well, there's a big problem.
sickofthelies- So all youi said to DC was "PEDOPHILIA THRIVES IN SILENCE"??
I think it was more or less a question of why the media could record but the members could not. I think you may be exaggerating a bit.
I am not exaggerating and it was not a question. It was posted that it is a fact that media wouldn't be allowed and and that "fact" was wrong because they were allowed. And they weren't allowed to record in the service, they only got what was off of the IMAG screens. If you want a copy of that, go place your order in the bookstore and you'll get it too.
You provoke certain responses because of how you word things.
NIce excuse, but this is wrong. I am not looking for answers to use in an attack back to you....I don't work that way, unlike some people here.
And no, I will not engage you in your response to this.
Good for you.
Some on here think you are funny or cute,
Good for them.
I do not.
Good for you.
I think you are here for a reason and I really believe you are connected in some way to leadership. Probably 'somebody's' son.
Yes I am here for a reason to get rid of all the lies and clear up the truth. And do you really think I'm someone's one? Wow, I never would have guessed that! ;)
Bellevue's new mission statement:
Forgive and move on,forgive and move on, forgive and move on....
It can also be used as a mantra while practicing contemplative prayer and walking the labyrinth (when we get one).
Then, when you get to the middle, David Coombs is there to laugh in your face.
(You can forgive him on your way out.....) :/
ju,
SG took responsibility. I guess if the church wants to vote him out we can. I will be voting against. As long as SG is being attacked like he is nonstop week after week....I will continue to forgive.
My body has just calmed down enough for me to function so I can't go into all that I saw as not true or wrong tonight. And don't jack with me trolls because unless you have been thru the horror you are clueless on how this never ends. david ,you hit several points for me ,thanks....I do hope there was some righteous anger ....I had to leave before we all sang kumba ya.....my body was shaking too much to join in. When I am calm,I will let Fox News or whoever I need to tell what was left out and slanted. For tonight I am too broken....Bellevue will never be a safe place for me again and that is beyond sad. Poor Paul.poor ignorant pastor for being ill prepared. I felt like the horn thing was being played and the snakes were dancing to the tune...oh...but the snakes were playing the horn....more clarity later. Bleeding too much right now.
4545,
Looks like sickofthelies isn't around but what will you say when/if he/she responds to your question with yes that is all I said?
4545
According to David Coombs, I didnt' say anything to him. He never saw me, never talked to me, never laughed at me.
Go ask him what I said if you are so interested.
4545
According to David Coombs, I didnt' say anything to him. He never saw me, never talked to me, never laughed at me.
Go ask him what I said if you are so interested.
oh, and for the record, I said it TWICE!!!
TWO TIMES!!!!
And lot laughed at twice.
SickOfTheLies,
Were you wearing your wire when he laughed at you? Maybe you could upload it for all of us to hear.
Ace,4545,
ribbit, ribbit.
Did anyone hear SG apologize? Did anyone hear SG repent?
OH, did PW repent before the church?
Isn't that biblical?
"Were you wearing your wire when he laughed at you? Maybe you could upload it for all of us to hear."
How cruel.
The report stated:
"The Pastor stated that he had never dealt with an incident of this type before. Further, there were no policies and procedures in place that he had been trained to follow."
This is an OUTRAGE. And, this kind of THINKING and RESPONSES are why Dr. Steve 'Wrong Turn' Gaines has lead Bellevue Baptist Church straight downhill since he became Pastor.
Esther,
How cruel.
Not cruel at his. Sick said she was going to be recording everything so I just want to know if she got that on tape.
Overflowing,
I don't feel like I'm attacking SG. I am still waiting for the consequences of what I believe the bible tells me was a sin to come to light. I still think everyone should seriously consider asking that SG be evaluated by a medical Dr. Many many weeks ago now we discussed how his self treatment with high dose steroids for years for the illness that he has could be affecting his judgment. It really is the only answer that makes any sense to me.
Ace,
Do you just have a mean streak?
You just can't resist kicking me more than DC already did?
Is there anything else hateful you would like to say to me?
Would you like to make fun of me like DC did?
Go ahead..Just do it in front of witnesses.
We're all waiting.
It appears you have the same sense of humor that DC has
"Not cruel at his. Sick said she was going to be recording everything so I just want to know if she got that on tape. "
What happened to her is NOT funny. It is cruel to keep this up.
sickofthelies: I'm on your side here, but if all you did was walk up to him and say "Pedophilia thrives in silence", and if you don't know him and you said nothing but that, you probably caught him off guard. Then if you say it again and say nothing else to him but the statement "Pedophilia thrives in silence", perhaps he gave some "nervous laughter"...."nervous laughter" when you are caught off guard and don't know how to reply to a statement that doesn't ask for a a reply, for some people a "nervous laugh" is a normal reply. Nervous laughter is not at all the same as "laughing in your face", don't you agree? Can you clarify that it was purposeful laughter meant to hurt you?
ju- If that is all they said, I would not have a clue what to say or how to respond either. I would have been shocked and who knows what I would have said. That is not a cop out for DC, but just the truth. It is kind of a scary and weird statement/question by itself with no explanation.
gmommylv
Proverbs 24:19 ¶ Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked;
20 For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.
friend,
Do you understand that he DENIED ever talking to me???
He DENIED ever laughing at me?
And for the record,
Pedophilia DOES thrive in silence and it was very pertinent to the report that HE just finished giving.
HE was the one at the pulpit.
HE DENIED THAT HE EVER TALKED TO ME
SickOfTheLies,
Do you just have a mean streak?
No ma'am. You stated that you were charging your recording device for tonight...I am just wondering if you were using it at this time. It was an honest question.
You just can't resist kicking me more than DC already did?
I am not kicking you...it seems like you're kicking yourself to me. It was a simple yes or no question. I guess the answer is no?
Is there anything else hateful you would like to say to me?
No, I don't hate you. I love you, actually.
Would you like to make fun of me like DC did?
If DC laughing is making fun of you, then you made fun of me last night saying that I smoke, and etc. Why do you get to make fun of me? That's not fair.
imaresistor wrote: "And I wonder if it has occurred to you that there might be a little boy, maybe even more, out there that might possibly have been molested by Williams between June 2006 and December 15, 2006 under the roof of Bellevue Church?
Yes, that has occurred to me. But you would be foolish to have to believe that anything would have happened after Paul Williams confessed to Dr. Gaines. Paul Williams at that point had a number of people aware of his past and I seriously doubt that he would have risk anything at that time. Now if you want to go back the full 17 years then most of that falls under Dr. Rogers leadership. The most apparent likely scenario would be that something would have happened under Dr. Rogers time.
But, despite all the speculation and gossip on this site, no one knows but Paul Williams and a possible victim if anything occurred. But that cannot be laid at Bro. Steve feet.
Wow,
If he would lie about even talking to you what else would he lie about?
David Brown,
What an extrordinary man you are. What a blessing it is to have you standing in the gap for God's precious children!
What a tremendous post! Thank you for your insight. You put the staff at Bellevue to shame!
"Nervous laughter is not at all the same as "laughing in your face", don't you agree? Can you clarify that it was purposeful laughter meant to hurt you?"
Uh, it is NOT like 'pedophilia' has not been mentioned around him in the last 6 mos.
But go back and read her post...he denies seeing her in front of witnesses who know he did!
Let's say it WAS nervous laughter, just for the sake of debatte. If that was his reaction..given his position... then he does NOT have the proper skills for it.
David Coombs, after having been in charge of " the so called investigation" knew EXACTLY what I was saying.
He,knew or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN, after investigating PW that this is a truth:
PEDOPHILIA THRIVES IN SILENCE.
And if you can't understand that, there's something wrong with you.
So do not turn this around on me.
He heard what I said, and then he denied that he had ever talked to me, or laughed at me.
HE LOOKED ME STRAIGHT IN THE FACE TWICE AND LAUGHED.
Make exucuses for him if you want, but you would think that if he had misunderstood, when I was taken back over to him, he could have said to me,
" oh, yes, i didn't quite understand what you meant by that'
but instead, he stood there and lied.
sickofthelies- That's great, why not just answer the question?
Also, so PW has to repent in front of the church for you to forgive him and pray for him etc? Were we suppose to make him do that?
NASS, how about a poll to see if people were satified with the report or not.
4545,
I do believe that for him to be restored to the fellowship the bible says something about his public sin being professed in front of the public i.e. church. Not smart enough to quote the scripture for you but I think it reads something like that.
sickofthelies: Do you just have a mean streak?
Ace: No ma'am. You stated that you were charging your recording device for tonight...I am just wondering if you were using it at this time. It was an honest question.
sickofthelies:You just can't resist kicking me more than DC already did?
Ace:I am not kicking you...it seems like you're kicking yourself to me. It was a simple yes or no question. I guess the answer is no?
sotl: Is there anything else hateful you would like to say to me?
Ace: No, I don't hate you. I love you, actually.
sotl:Would you like to make fun of me like DC did?
Ace:If DC laughing is making fun of you, then you made fun of me last night saying that I smoke, and etc. Why do you get to make fun of me? That's not fair.
It is like talking to Bill Clinton. And, the first response sounded like Eddie Haskell.
Ju, I doubt he will make any public statement until DCS and the DA are finished with their investigation. JMHO
Proverbs 24:24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:
25 But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.
ace said:
If DC laughing is making fun of you, then you made fun of me last night saying that I smoke, and etc. Why do you get to make fun of me? That's not fair.
response:
Oh, ok, Ace, if you equate making a joke about going thru mcdonalds and what DC did to me tonight, you are beyond help.
Memphis,
I agree. Probably from a legal standpoint it wouldn't be a good idea. I would expect though if he wishes to remain a member at BBC that he would do this at some point.
Listen, when the man of God strays from the path that God has laid before him, he can come back on the path, but more often than not, he has already ruined his witness in the ministry that God has called him to do. He needs to move on and remember what he lost because of his foolishness.
"Oh, ok, Ace, if you equate making a joke about going thru mcdonalds and what DC did to me tonight, you are beyond help."
This really is how Ace thinks. Now, you all are starting to get it.
Ju, make no mistake. I agree with you that he should do this, but since it was said he wanted to avoid jail, I do not see him mkaing any statements
SickOfTheLies,
Oh, ok, Ace, if you equate making a joke about going thru mcdonalds and what DC did to me tonight, you are beyond help.
Your statement (joke) hurt my feelings. I was being nice and you post that I smoke and I buy cigarettes, and etc. I didn't find that funny.
It looks to me like you have double standards. It's okay for you to make fun of people and laugh and them but if somebody does that to you it's wrong. I don't understand?
mr. deacon 4545 said:
Were we suppose to make him do that?
reponse:
who is "WE"
All,
I have personally known David Coombs for 15 years. He is a man of honor and integrity.
Personally, if you had walked up to me with just a statement of that nature I'd assume you to be 'touched in the head'. I suggest the next time you introduce yourself to David and pose a question rather than just a glib statement.
ace,
you are pathetic
Amos...thank you...my daughter said basically the same thing to comfort me....I just had no idea how this would affect me tonight. I am 50 and tonight the humiliation and pain and disbelief was brand new again. I hate that Chris or anyone else has to live this. And I hate God's word being manipulated to go along with the agenda.....
JMO
AGAIN, HE just finished talking about a report about pedophilia.
I didn't just go to the mall and walk up to someone and make that statement.
He had just finished giving a report on the very thing I commented on.
Go ahead, excuse his behavior.
No one is safe at BBC
JMO,
I don't think your considering the full context of what happened. If this happened on the street or something maybe I could understand a reaction like that. I can understand a nervous laugh type reaction even still. What I can not understand is lying about it afterwards. Why lie about someone talking to you other than to hide the fact that you were rude and hurtful in your reaction?
Ace: Your statement (joke) hurt my feelings. I was being nice and you post that I smoke and I buy cigarettes, and etc. I didn't find that funny.
It looks to me like you have double standards. It's okay for you to make fun of people and laugh and them but if somebody does that to you it's wrong. I don't understand?"
Cigarette smoking vs Pedophilia?
Yes, there is a double standard. There are victims of this horrible crime on here tonight! And you make fun? What kind of cruel person are you anyway? Are you sure you are not "somebodys" (you know what that means) son? Can you buy 20 'Coombs' in a pack?
Matthew 18:15 ¶ Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
1st Corinthians 5:9 ¶ I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
"I have personally known David Coombs for 15 years. He is a man of honor and integrity."
Then why didn't HE follow scripture?
*** ATTENTION - THIS IS IMPORTANT. ***
Many people here claims to know who I am. They have "facts" that prove my identity, but I am wondering this...where did you get your facts? Feel free to post them.
What has happened, my friends, is a lot of you have fallen into the 'gossip pool' once again by basing your opinion on who I am without any facts. You claim you know who I am from some anonymous person who posted to email them. Then they send an email saying that I am whoever and you automatically think they are right. This is where you are wrong. That is called gossip and if you know what is smart, you should refrain from that in the future and don't believe every little single thing you hear.
Cheers,
Ace
Sick,
you are pathetic
Do you remember when I called you this? You started a hissy-fit and starting over-reacting about everything? And then you go out and call me this. How sad...double standards.
NASS, I was told I couldn't call people pathetic anymore because it was namecalling, I assume this applies to everyone else too, right?
powr,
God bless you...
Ima
sickofthelies,
Please understand that you are not in the wrong here. What if God allowed you to see that for a reason? Every bit of that may have happened for a very good reason. Pray about that.
Worldly thinking has infected this church. They are blind to truth. They are blind to 7 mos of silence on a pedophile minister be allowed to stay in his position despite the very clear scripture of 1 Corinthians 5 and Titus and Timothy. It is very clear in scripture.
You have explained there were witnesses (they will demand that next because they will never believe you over their false leaders even after all this) and the fact that DC even denied talking to you!
The saddest day of our lives is when we come face to face with the realization that men we have esteemed are prone to fall into worldly thinking when a crisis hits. Saving face, ego, pride are all reasons why this happens.
gmommylv
hope you dont think I manipulate
I only quote...never speak, but just made an exception...grace to you
Where are all the people tonight that said that we would have to wait until the report came out to know what kind of ' moral failure' happened between pw and a relative?
Where are all the people that were not convinced that it was about sexual molestation of his son.
Where are the people that said that if they found out that SG knew of the sexual molestation of pw's son for 6 months, they would join us.
I am asking now...ARE YOU CONVINCED THAT IT INVOLVED HIS SON????
I am curious about this myself, and since Ace just commented, I think I will chime in-
In regards to this email you received about Ace's identity, did any of you go and verify the validity of this info or just accept it as fact even though it came from an unreliable source?
I know the blog is not about Ace, but "we" are always been told to verify our info and show proof and I am just wondering if anyone attempted to verify this.
sickofthelies- We is we, as in the members/Bellevue Baptist Church. It seems you have a very very hard time answering questions.
1. So all you said to DC was "PEDOPHILIA THRIVES IN SILENCE"??
2. Also, so PW has to repent in front of the church for you to forgive him and pray for him etc? Were we suppose to make him do that?
somebody stated
"I have personally known David Coombs for 15 years. He is a man of honor and integrity."
Piglet says:
I have heard this from others and I don't doubt that he once was. I also know that being around Steve Gaines has an effect on people.
(I've heard that even one lunch out with the guy can change a person.)
The fact remains that Coombs has stated "I don't care about the law", has laughed in the face of a member concerned about child abuse, then lied about it instead of apologizing for offending her.
This is all very creepy to me.
"What has happened, my friends, is a lot of you have fallen into the 'gossip pool' once again by basing your opinion on who I am without any facts."
Can we consider that to be a flat denial that you are NOT Coombs' son?
Yes or No will suffice.
esther said: Worldly thinking has infected this church. They are blind to truth. They are blind to 7 mos of silence on a pedophile minister be allowed to stay in his position despite the very clear scripture of 1 Corinthians 5 and Titus and Timothy. It is very clear in scripture.
Well put, Esther. It's a big problem....scripture is not being used, apparently. So now we have a whole web of lies and cover-ups....who is left that can be trusted?
"The Pastor stated that he had never dealt with an incident of this type before. Further, there were no policies and procedures in place that he had been trained to follow."
So...if Steve Gaines' children had been raped when they were younger, what would he have done? And if, God forbid, his grandchildren are molested...what will he do? Somebody better get this man a manual to read.
This is really ludicrous!
Where is Charlie Fox tonight....Please folks ignore Ace and maybe he will go away...This is not a funny thing that has happened tonight and ace seems to be doing nothing but making light of the problems at BBC. Not a laughing matter. So go to bed Ace.. You need your rest. Remember you were up late last night...And don't forget to say your bedtime prayer...Now I lay me down to sleep.....
Night folks.....
sickofthelies,
Ignore those here that act like thugs to people already hurting. I saw a lot of shock and disappointment tonight.
4545, Ace--Christians like y'all make me glad that I'm a Buddhist. Don't try so hard to wear out that saved-by-grace ticket antagonizing your brothers and sisters here.
blessings to you all.
sickofthelies, why respond to 4545? I would direct him to scripture. Specifically the Pauline letters. One must discover the truth for themselves in matters such as these. Let the Holy Spirit illuminate truth to him.
piglet said- (I've heard that even one lunch out with the guy can change a person.)
REPLY- How pathetic. The hate on this board is unreal.
overflowinggrace said...
David,
I agree with the report and I have my concerns. I really was just asking a question about your post. What you posted was not accurate. At this point I think we have to forgive and move on. I thought the report came down hard on PW. When they mentioned that he had been molested as well, I took it that he is a victim in need of our prayers also. SG is right...this is a different day.
10:13 PM, January 28, 2007
I understand you were addressing David, but I did want to inject my thoughts here.
This is not a different day - my sisters and I were sexually abused by our father in the 50's and 60's. None of us sexually abused our children. And we did not talk about our childhood abuse or seek any type of counseling until we were all in our 40's! It took 30 years for it to come out into the open!
4545,
Again I'm not smart enough to quote it for you but I've seen scripture posted to the effect that if someone does something to the children he is basically to be put out of church and is not a brother in Christ. If he confesses his public sin in public then he could be welcomed back into the fellowship. Your correct we can't make him do that.
sotl,
Please know that not everyone here does not know what the term you used when speaking to David Coombs means. It is common to anyone who has a clue about pedophiles and the manner in which they operate. I would have thought that everyone at BBC would have known it by now. It has been on this blog and in th media multiple times and surely a man in charge of this major investigation would have understood what you were saying, but regardless of whether he did or did not - any kind of laugh following the release he just presented just shows that the man is void of compassion and knowledge in the area he was charged with investigating. The fact that theman lied about it is a symptom of his character, or lack thereof.
Be still my sister in Christ, and know that He who neither slumbers or sleeps will be the ONE watching over you tonight.
I am praying for you dear sister!
What a tangled web we weave...
sickofthelies: Ditto for me too
We are covering you in prayer.
i-flyaway
Your story is why I am angry that the "investigative report" found that children at BBC were "never at risk".
How presumptuous! We may not know for years.
I have a question and I don't know if anyone picked up on it or not or has an answer for me.
Early in the released statement, it is noted that the investigative committee seized Paul Williams' computers both at home and at his office. Would this not be considered an obstruction of justice if the DA/DCS were also investigating this case? Seems like a strange thing for the investigative committee to do without the legal authorities permission? Yet, they did not obtain permission? Why?
Folks, I owe everyone an apology here tonight. Including Ace, etc. I am so overwhelmed with the evil that has infected our churches.
And the making fun of people who take this seriously has gotten to me. Even making light of this at all has gotten to me. Our churches are sliding into filth with worldly thinking. The fact that part of the report was written by 'legal counsel' just sent me through the roof. Oh, yes, it is soooo pragmatic to protect ourselves but there is NOTHING pragmatic about following Christ. The church should not be pragmatic but it is.
There are victims of abuse on here tonight really hurting. This brings it all up again...how it is handled...Oh, yes, we made mistakes...we admit it. No, you DEFIED scripture. You defied God's Holy Word and did not look out for the 'least of these'.
God is NOT mocked. We should all be fearful. We have forgotten how to fear God because we have been fed soda pop theology. (It is not even milk anymore).
I am leaving now...need to get into the Word.
sickofthelies, you will especially be in my deep prayers tonight.
Justmyopinion....I am glad you know the DC that is honorable ...I experienced the bully that is very disrespectful and demeaning to women...and this was during a business transaction and he has had many opportunities to apologize... so if Ace is SC...he learned from the master....and go ahead and threaten to expose my name,ace,I'm sure there is legal action that can be brought against our "files" being passed around and your bully threats...like I said,tonite is not a good time to jack with me....go get on your knees and sing....give us a break...ask good ol truth telling DC how he treated me since you know everyone....but don't underestimate those you bully.
MOM4, I did not hear about the computers or I missed it, do you know when this happened? Had DCS become involved at that time?
Mom4,
Early in the released statement, it is noted that the investigative committee seized Paul Williams' computers both at home and at his office.
Paul Williams gave the computers to BBC willingfully.
Would this not be considered an obstruction of justice if the DA/DCS were also investigating this case?
If they want the computers, they can contact Bellevue. Or perhaps Williams got it back.
Seems like a strange thing for the investigative committee to do without the legal authorities permission? Yet, they did not obtain permission? Why?
They don't have to have anyone's permission but Paul's to take his computer. It's as simple as that. Don't make things more complicated than they have to be.
When you put 2+2 together you always come up with 3 with this group.
Looks like I'm late to the party.
Everyone: I think you all are missing the point here. I wasn't waiting for this committee report to find out but one thing, and one thing only (actually two facts): I wanted confirmation on WHAT it was that PW did to his son (we now know that he raped his son FOR MONTHS ON END - let's call it what it is; before the report I wasn't sure if it was something that involved physical contact - there were any number of things that it could have been), and I wanted confirmation that PW went to SG in June and TOLD SG EXACTLY WHAT HE DID TO HIS SON.
Here's the significance of the report: We now know WITH 100% CERTAINTY: STEVE GAINES KNEW THAT HE HAD A RAPIST, CHILD MOLESTER ON HIS STAFF, AND DIDN'T HAVE THE PRESENCE OF MIND TO KNOW WHAT TO DO. This reminds me of the president in the 2005 series of 24 where the vice president "choked" at the precise moment he was needed to make a split second decision, and he put the entire nation at risk by letting the terrorist slip through Jack Bower's hands (sorry, I do watch that program).
When I heard that SG didn't report this for 6 months, my thought was "perhaps PW showed his son some pornography; perhaps his son walked in on him during a moment of indiscretion, maybe it was something not involving physical contact". BUT NOW WE KNOW!! SG KNEW THAT PW RAPED HIS SON!
"So what" you say?
Now that we know that PW in June went to SG and told him EXACTLY what he did to his son, I now have to wonder if SG is qualified to be the pastor of a Baptist church (any Baptist church). Here's why:
I'm trying to picture the scene where PW admitted this heinous act to SG. I'm trying to think in my mind of one serious, grown, Christian man that has a family and sons and daughters, and WOULDN'T know what to do. I honestly can't think of one!! I honestly can't think of one serious Christian man (let alone a pastor) that wouldn't immediately be so repulsed and offended to his inner core to hear this man confess of his actions, that wouldn't know IMMEDIATELY, INSTINCTIVELY what to do. I can't think of one serious Christian man I know that would have to pray about it, look it up in the Bible, ask someone else about. I can't think of a Christian man that would have to call another minister, would have to call a committee meeting to figure out what to do (let alone one that would wait 6 months). All serious, Christian men that have their own families immediately upon hearing this man describe what PW did to his son would jump into action. After restraining themselves from strangling this man, they would IMMEDIATELY call the police. They would immediately mobilize the forces of the church staff to jump into action to make sure this man is removed from the premises, not allowed back on the premises. They would immediately determine how to break the news to the congregation as soon as possible to find out the extent of the damage this monster had done to the congregation. They would JUMP INTO ACTION LIKE JACK BOWER KICKING THE SUICIDE BOMBER OUT OF THE BACK OF THE SUBWAY TRAIN JUST MOMENTS BEFORE HIS BOMB WENT OFF. He wouldn't stop to think how it would look, what damage he might cause himself, he would take action immediately.
This all would tell me one thing if I were a member at BBC.
Steve Gaines CANNOT BE MY PASTOR. How can any man with a family and kids look up to this man? He is not MAN enough to be my pastor, I would have to go elsewhere.
Lastly, I have to say this:
Imagine the scene: Paul Williams comes into Adrian Rogers' office and confesses that he raped his son repeatedly for 18 months. Come on people....HE RAPED HIS SON FOR MONTHS ON END...do you not think a REAL MAN like Adrian Rogers wouldn't know what to do? I dare say Homer Lindsay, Jr. might end up in jail for what he would have done to this worm of a man for what he did to his son. But Homer Lindsay, Jr. was a "man's man"...not a feminized preacher man who doesn't have the presence of mind to deal with a child rapist monster.
I wouldn't stay and fight to have SG removed at BBC. Its too late for that. Not only is this pastor feminized, so must the congregation that isn't repulsed by SG "choking" at the precise moment a MAN was needed to take action and protect the church. SG choked, and he couldn't be MY pastor. He might be able to be YOUR pastor, but not mine. I need to have a MAN'S MAN as a pastor who knows AT LEAST how to protect women and children from child rapist monsters.
Sorry for sounding so angry, but you all have missed the point and significance of this church report. And ACE, you can put this in your pipe and smoke it: You can have this feminized pastor; I sure wouldn't be able to have him as my pastor. This report makes me appreciate Mac Brunson all the more - no way would he not have known what to do (I think Mac might have ended up in jail also like Homer Lindsay had he been told by PW what PW did to his son).
NESS, you know I've been a responsible poster here, I hope you will let this post stay.
mr. deacon 4545
What don't you understand?
I walked up to him and said,
PEDOPHILIA thrives in silence.
the statement, by itself, was enuf. In case you are not aware, mr. deacon, he had just given a 20 minute report on the pedophilia of paul williams and everyone who had hushed it up. The entire report was about people who did NOT report it..you know...how they were SILENT!!!!
The report was a farce. It was a joke... there were no consequences for anyone who kept it SILENT.
Thus, since DC obviously does not understand how pediphilia thrives in silence, it was apparent that SOMEONE needed to let him know about it.
Let me repeat again for you what i said:
P E D O P H I L I A T H R I V E S
I N S I L E N C E
WHAT PART OF THIS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
It is apparent that you are looking to find fault with me instead of looking at what DC did to me. But that is the way it is at BBC now, isn't it?
Surround the leadership, protect them at all costs. Villify the victim.
JU
1st Corinthians 5:9 ¶ I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
2nd Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Proverbs 5:22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.
23 He shall die without instruction; and in the greatness of his folly he shall go astray.
Proverbs 11:21 ¶ Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.
I wondered about that too, mom4. I don't have an answer, just wanted you to know I had the same thought. Even if Bellevue shares those computers with the DA/DCS, one would think they (DA/DCS) would need to access those files/drives *first* before Bellevue examines them, for legal reasons. Again though, I don't know... just thinking out loud.
It only takes common sense for anybody to report sexual abuse involving a child. We can’t blame lack of “procedures, policy, or protocol.”
You folks need to learn about forgiveness. Did anyone pay attention to the sermon last week?
Or does forgiving people not apply to people on this blog? Are bloggers above the Law? You all will be held accountable for everything you have posted here, especially the lies, hatred, and etc.
Just something to think about. I cannot believe there are so many hateful people who are part of our church.
The scriptures are the policy and procedure manual...how the law deals with it is up to the magistrates..who do not wield the sword in vain.
SickofTheLies,
It is apparent that you are looking to find fault with me instead of looking at what DC did to me. But that is the way it is at BBC now, isn't it?
Maybe this is the problem... you're taking this too personal. It's not ALL about you. I'm praying for you.
facts,
you are so alliterate!
ace,
dude...hush...you've said your share of nasty things on here.
Ace - I'm not a part of your church...but you must be "feminized"...how can you defend a preacher that doesn't know how to act when another man comes into his presence and admits that he has raped his son? He raped his son, told SG about it, and then SG let him stay on staff.
This is not about forgiveness. I would be able to forgive SG, and its under the blood. Not a problem
Its just that this man wouldn't be able to be my pastor. Can he be yours?
From the online report, page 3:
"At the beginning of the investigation, the Inestigative Team secured Paul's office and home computers. An OUTSIDE expert was engaged to examine the hard drives and email activities that could reveal inappropriate actions and be helpful to the investigation, but no overtly suspicious files or emails were found on the computers."
They would have asked for the computers - why in the world would Paul just come up and say:"By the way, here is my home and office computer in case you want to search for pedophile stuff" - duh...HELLO!!
I know I will get slammed for saying this again, but I don't care. The problem that is ongoing at Bellevue is the same that is going on in hundreds of other churches around the world...the world has come into the church by way of invitation. One can't tell the church from the world anymore. When you have a senior pastor of a church of any size who refuses to deal with a staff member who he knows to be a pedophile...you have a church liken unto the world. Pride has a foot hold. Like it or not, that is what you have got. All of this is a by-product of the church growth movements. We must get back to the basics...the Bible plus nothing.
AllofGrace,
dude...hush...you've said your share of nasty things on here.
Not tonight. In the past maybe I've overreacted myself...I realize that. Now it's time for others to realize the way they've been acting too.
Why is it that those individuals who believe they need outside counseling can only choose from the two names Bellevue has selected? Is this fair? Does this honestly create an atmosphere of trust?
sickofthelies,
just curious, but what response were you seeking by just walking up to someone and making a statement like that? I am not excusing his actions if that is what happened (I don't know you and I do know him, so nothing personal- I don't want to call you a liar) but I don't understand what point you were trying to make. It just seems like an odd thing to say with no context.
Hello Stephen "ACE" Coombs. You may have been bragging to somebody the other evening about your blog name...and somebody may have overheard you. Have a good evening, Stephen!
And, no, nobody is above the law -- none of us.
I implore you to please step back from the fire for a while and think about what you have typed (said) to people. I wish you no ill will. I will continue praying for the situation you must be in. Rise above it.
friendinjax, You have laid it out. You are exactly right. AMEN!
And, you hit the nail on the head with the 'feminization' of the church.
FriendInJax,
Ace - I'm not a part of your church...but you must be "feminized"...
That's just...cute...real cute.
how can you defend a preacher that doesn't know how to act when another man comes into his presence and admits that he has raped his son? He raped his son, told SG about it, and then SG let him stay on staff.
Maybe if you were at the service tonight you would have some idea on this issue. Also - Did you read the report? All 19 pages?
This is not about forgiveness. I would be able to forgive SG, and its under the blood. Not a problem
Perhaps forgiveness isn't the issue for you, but it is for many people here. They are holding a grudge and they just can't let go.
Its just that this man wouldn't be able to be my pastor. Can he be yours?
He IS my pastor...just like he is sickofthelies' pastor. If you don't want him to be your pastor then there are plenty of other churches out there. And, NO, I'm not telling people to leave Bellevue.
Could-it-be-true,
Hello Stephen "ACE" Coombs. You may have been bragging to somebody the other evening about your blog name...and somebody may have overheard you. Have a good evening, Stephen!
There is absolutely nothing but lies in the above quoted text. How sad...more gossip.
How old is Stephen Coombs?
Matthew 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
When will so many of you LET GO of this stuff? Let go of your hate? Let go of your hurt? Let go of your obsession? Let go of your resentment? Let go of your grudges?
And on and on? How long do you plan to live this way?
Ace - I'm NOT trying to be cute. You have to serioiusly look at the man who choked at the precise moment THE CONGREGATION NEEDED HIM. He's only YOUR pastor as long as you decide to stay at the church. There are some acts that I think FOR ME would disqualify a man from being my pastor. One of them is harboring a child rapist. A child rapist Ace, and SG didn't know what to do. He said he didn't have the training. No, he didn't have the backbone....
Again, I'll ask the question: can any of you think of a SERIOUS, MATURE CHRISTIAN MAN THAT HAS HIS OWN CHILDREN THAT WOULD NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN A MAN WALKS INTO YOUR PRESENCE AND ADMITS THAT HE RAPED HIS SON, AND IS YOUR SUBORDINATE IN A CHURCH? I can't think of any...but SG
bepatient- I am wordering the same.
4545...I believe it IS time to let go...that is my point. If SG were the pastor of my church, I would have to leave the church based on the information contained in the report. It is time to let go. There really is NOTHING else to talk about. People can now decide: stay with a feminized preacher, or go to a church where there is a REAL man as the preacher.
The "hateful" people in the church are our leaders who put their own welfare ahead of the truth and the welfare of the membership.
The church is hurting. Our leaders ignore Matt. 18 because Gaines says it does not apply to (drum roll) HIM.
Our leaders intimidate people into silence and then say there are no witnesses.
We bring witnesses and they allow no forum for them to speak.
We request documents and a membership roll that we are entitled to by law and they say the don't "care about the law".
They say "oops, sorry" after letting a known pedophile roam the halls of BBC for six months.
All of this, and when we get angry, we are hateful and unforgiving.
4545,
You come across as far more obsessed than anyone else.
Be patient,
You can't call me a liar. I have a witness that went with me to confront him later. That is when he looked me in the face and denied it.
And again..DC had just finished giving a report on pedophilia. A half baked report, I might add. This was the context. You act like I went to the mall and stopped a total stranger, and made the statement to him.
Do you understand that DC had JUST , 5 min. before, given a 20 minute speech on pedophilia??????
And what difference does it make if he didn't understand it?
He had the opportunity to ask me about it again, when I was persuaded to go back and try to straighten it out with him.
However, it is impossible to straighten something out with someone who cannot tell the truth.
He could have said.." oh, i'm sorry, I didn't understand what you said..and yes, it sure does thrive in silence, and we are so sorry..yadayadayada....
but, no....when given the opportunity to make it right with me, he chose to say that he had never seen me, or talked to me.
You can say that I shouldn't have said what I said, but how does that excuse DC not taking the opportunity to make it right, and instead, lying straight to not only my face, but the face of my witness.
STop excusing this man's behavior. It's just more of the same.
Instead of focusing on PW and SG and DC, you are focusing on what I should or should not have said. And I feel it was justified,since DC obviously, from teh report, not understand about pedophilia, since there are not going to be any consequences for anyone, except PW.
aog said
The scriptures are the policy and procedure manual...how the law deals with it is up to the magistrates..who do not wield the sword in vain.
amos breaks silence momentarily to sing old negro spiritual ''a-men''
Ace wrote all of this:
Mom4,
Early in the released statement, it is noted that the investigative committee seized Paul Williams' computers both at home and at his office.
Paul Williams gave the computers to BBC willingfully.
Would this not be considered an obstruction of justice if the DA/DCS were also investigating this case?
If they want the computers, they can contact Bellevue. Or perhaps Williams got it back.
Seems like a strange thing for the investigative committee to do without the legal authorities permission? Yet, they did not obtain permission? Why?
They don't have to have anyone's permission but Paul's to take his computer. It's as simple as that. Don't make things more complicated than they have to be.
11:14 PM, January 28, 2007 "
Sure does sound like someone in the know. Someone very close to what is going on inside the church at the top.
I agree.
(Don't pass out)
Ima
friendinfx,
I agree. (Don't pass out)
Ima
Most can LET GO of this stuff when the rest of you LET GO of this dud of a pastor.
ace said...
Could-it-be-true,
Hello Stephen "ACE" Coombs. You may have been bragging to somebody the other evening about your blog name...and somebody may have overheard you. Have a good evening, Stephen!
There is absolutely nothing but lies in the above quoted text. How sad...more gossip.
____________
So, Ace, what specifically was a “lie” and what was “gossip” in my post? Are you actually denying that you are S. Coombs?
Friend in jax
Yes, it is true, our pastor is a girly man.
ace,
Are you being paid to be on this blog?
sickofthelies,
I am not calling you a liar. But I do not know you or your witness so I have to take everything that is said with the knowledge that I cannot verify what you are saying. I am not excusing his behavior. I am simply asking what you were looking for from him. Anyone that was watching could see that he was nervous and clearly not accustomed to public speaking. What response did you desire? What was your motive in asking? That is what I am curious about. And please don't assume the worst about why I am asking, I am really trying to hear you out and simply asking for clarification on this.
Amos,
I singing right along with you...
Could-It-Be-True,
So, Ace, what specifically was a “lie” and what was “gossip” in my post? Are you actually denying that you are S. Coombs?
Take what I said as this... it is lies and gossip. Nothing more, nothing less.
Proverbs 4:14 ¶ Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men.
15 Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away.
16 For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall.
17 For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.
18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
AllOfGrace,
Are you being paid to be on this blog?
Absolutely not. NOBODY is getting paid to be on this blog.
ace,
Has anyone asked you to be on this blog..or monitor the blog...paid or not?
I like Amos!
be patient
I was there when a witness confirmed that Coombs laughed in sotl's face. I saw her tears. Don't doubt her story.
Unbelievable!! David Coombs' own son is ACE!!
Come on Ace...you want to deny it, don't you? But, do you dare (gasp) lie about your own name because of your dad? Goodness...the dilemma you must be in.
Proverbs 29:2 ¶ When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
AllOfGrace,
Has anyone asked you to be on this blog..or monitor the blog...paid or not?
I receive emails all the time from people telling me thanks for being here and not to disappear and stop posting...so yes, some people asked me to stay here via email all the time.
And, no, I'm not getting paid.
Could-it-be-true,
Unbelievable!! David Coombs' own son is ACE!!
Another lie.
Brad Jobe, I sent you some emails a few eeks ago. Please let me know the answers if you get a minute please. Thanks
ace,
you already told me you aren't paid to be here...i take you at your word..anyone in authority encouraging you to be here?
Ace-
Go on -- deny that you are Coombs' son. Here is another opportunity for you. Deny it....
Memphis,
Send e-mails to Jessebjobe@aol.com...The Brad Jobe site is rarely checked...but I'll check..:O)
Proverbs 17:15 ¶ He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
4545 and ace,
There is not hate here. But I have to say that the truth hurts. If the truth didn't have its cathartic properties, then God wouldn't have compared it to a fire. Remember Isaiah's cleansing when God called him to be a prophet,
"Woe is me, for I am ruined.
Because I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."
The one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. He touched my mouth with it and said, "Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven." (Isaiah 6:5b-7)
Now, when the Lord burned Isaiah's mouth, it was to cleanse any impure speech that might proceed out his mouth.
Let me remind both you and Ace of something else as well. Make words your friends, because you never know when you're going to have to eat them. "I took the little book out of the angel's hand and ate it, and in my mouth it was sweet as honey; and wehn I had eaten it, my stomach was bitter." (Revelation 10:10). Ace, 4545, be cautious.
I think friendinjax's original post deserves headline billing.
Read it again, folks.
The "hateful" people in the church are our leaders who put their own welfare ahead of the truth and the welfare of the membership.
The church is hurting. Our leaders ignore Matt. 18 because Gaines says it does not apply to (drum roll) HIM.
Our leaders intimidate people into silence and then say there are no witnesses.
We bring witnesses and they allow no forum for them to speak.
We request documents and a membership roll that we are entitled to by law and they say the don't "care about the law".
They say "oops, sorry" after letting a known pedophile roam the halls of BBC for six months.
All of this, and when we get angry, we are hateful and unforgiving.
Piglet adds:
And these people that want Ace to keep posting to "set us straight".
I wonder who THEY might be.....
piglet, for the record I don't know you either. And it really doesn't matter if I believe her or not anyway, I am asking for clarification about what she hoped for with her statement. I am not accusing her of anything. Just as I have no way of knowing if she is lying, I have no way of knowing if she is not. I don't want to assume the worst, I am taking her at her word.
Piglet.
Thank you.
BePatient,
you have mail
AllofGrace,
you already told me you aren't paid to be here...i take you at your word..anyone in authority encouraging you to be here?
Authority as in somebody "big" at Bellevue? No, not really...
Someone claiming to be 'Ace' emailed sickofthelies and said he knew who she was. And Ace is David Coombs son? That is a little bit sick.
God said (and Amosposted)
Proverbs 29:2 ¶ When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
Piglet says:
"They mourneth on the bloggeth"
ace,
authority, as in anyone in authority..anyone who is over you.
ChurchMouse,
Someone claiming to be 'Ace' emailed sickofthelies and said he knew who she was. And Ace is David Coombs son? That is a little bit sick.
Yes I emailed SickOfTheLies stating I know who she was, I'm not going to lie about that. But SickOfTheLies, why don't you post what my purpose of the email was? You conviently left that part out.
And again, more lies at the end of your post. I don't know how many times I have to tell you folks to stop gossiping.
Psalms 2:10 ¶ Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
AllOfGrace,
authority, as in anyone in authority..anyone who is over you.
God is in authority over me and I feel like he doesn't want me to leave this site just yet. So, yes.
I am not Stephen Coombs.
A lot of people owe Stephen Coombs an apology, as well as the rest of the Coombs' family, including David for these lies and accusations. I'm sure they'll be waiting....
ok..thanks ace
"And again, more lies at the end of your post. I don't know how many times I have to tell you folks to stop gossiping."
You can end the 'speculations' right now. It is not gossip becasue they are saying it on this blog right in front of you. It is speculation and you have the power to end it now. You are probably a bit in over your head and your future reputation is at stake...or perhaps your father's? Uncle? Grandfather?
You all really need to quit responding to "Ace". Who cares who he is. I'll tell you who he is...a pure pest. He disrupts this blog miserably. And you are all letting him. If he doesn't have any response and you just scroll right past him...there won't be any problem.
I'll repost to make sure people saw it:
I am not Stephen Coombs.
A lot of people owe Stephen Coombs an apology, as well as the rest of the Coombs' family, including David for these lies and accusations. I'm sure they'll be waiting....
"God is in authority over me and I feel like he doesn't want me to leave this site just yet. So, yes."
Be sure and 'test' the Spirits.
Steph...err..Ace,
I think you protest too much.
SORRY FOR THE DELAY, FOLKS. UNLESS YOU'D LIKE TO WAIT AND TRY FOR 800 COMMENTS IN A SINGLE THREAD, YOU CAN MOVE UP NOW AND START IN THE NEW ONE.
Thank you,
NBBCOF
Oh, please,I want to be 800!
I'll help to get to 800....1 more to go after this one! :)
ace said:
But SickOfTheLies, why don't you post what my purpose of the email was? You conviently left that part out.
response:
Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that he sent an apology, couched in the fact that he wanted me to know that he knew EXACTLY ( his word) who i am.
So sorry to have left out the REAL purpose of your email to me, ace..
But we REALLY know why you emailed me don't we?
It's what bbc has become famous for:
INTIMIDATION
Sweet, I was #800!
I'm 800!!!!!
OH,MAN!
Where is an angry face on this keyboard?!!!!
Proverbs 17:21 ¶ He that begetteth a fool doeth it to his sorrow: and the father of a fool hath no joy.
Proverbs 18:6 ¶ A fool’s lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
7 A fool’s mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.
8 ¶ The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.
Proverbs 23:9 ¶ Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
SickOfTheLies,
Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that he sent an apology, couched in the fact that he wanted me to know that he knew EXACTLY ( his word) who i am.
Forget? And, yes, I do know EXACTLY who are you. That is me being truthful.
So sorry to have left out the REAL purpose of your email to me, ace..
But we REALLY know why you emailed me don't we?
Deep down inside you know the truth. Quit denying it.
Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that he sent an apology, couched in the fact that he wanted me to know that he knew EXACTLY ( his word) who i am.
So sorry to have left out the REAL purpose of your email to me, ace..
But we REALLY know why you emailed me don't we?
It's what bbc has become famous for: INTIMIDATION
No intimidation here. Why is this such a big deal anyway? Have you said some stuff on here that you don't want others to know you said? Hmmm...
new thread ya'll
NEVER MIND. PLEASE JUST MOVE UP NOW. OR BETTER YET, GO TO BED!
I have a feeling I'm going to be taking the trash out for a while.
NBBCOF
Don't worry, NASS, I'll be gone in a few. Were you sitting in the balcony tonight? I think I saw you!
Thanks Lindon - I'm beginning to wonder about the others here that are still talking about this. What else is there to talk about? You all now know for 100% certainty. The pastor at BBC choked at the precise moment in time that the church needed him to protect the women and children from a rapist monster. The pastor at BBC that the congregation loves and applauds, was told by another man that this man raped his own son. Yet the pastor at BBC did NOTHING. DO YOU HEAR ME? HE DID NOTHING!!! Remember: at the moment SG was told by PW how PW RAPED HIS SON FOR MONTH ON END, SG didn't know if this guy was a serial predator. As a MAN, I would have suspected immediately that this man was a SERIAL child rapist and taken action AT THAT MOMENT. If I had my gun in arm's reach, I believe I would have held this man at gunpoint until the police arrived...for fear that he was suicidal for coming to tell me...that he might leave my office and do something stupid after confessing to such a heinous crime. This is akin to a murderer coming in to confess that he murdered another man (dare I say WORSE than a man murdering another man?). I think if I had my gun I would have held PW there in my office until the police arrived. Yet SG not only did not do this, he LET THE MAN ROAM AROUND THE CHURCH AND DID NOT WARN THE CONGREGATION!
I'll restate my premise: the significant part of the report tonight is that we now know WHAT PW did to his son, and we know that he DID IT CONTINUALLY FOR MONTHS TO HIS ADOLESCENT SON. DID YOU HEAR THAT? IT WASN'T ONE TIME, IT WAS FOR MONTHS. And we also know that STEVE GAINES HAD KNOWLEDGE OF THIS HEINOUS ACT. These two facts were not known by most of us in this blog. This changes everything.
BBC members wake up! Its time to leave while that "man" is the pastor!!! Why can't you see it? There's nothing left to talk about!
Look, folks, I spoke with "sick of the lies" after seeing her in tears. She was discussing DC's treatment of her with an eyewitness to it. He confirmed to me what happened; he was standing right next to DC at the time. This man is a long time Bellevue member. He gently, but firmly rebuked DC for his behavior, who then claimed he hadn't heard her. The man said he'd heard her and knew DC had too. DC then allowed "I may have heard her."
There you have it. This is the kind of stonewalling dishonesty that flows like an IV drip through the Bellevue leadership.
And the report. Notice how DC highlighted Jamie Fish's involvement compared to Steve Gaines. Blame was further laid off on Webb Williams and seven others (rightly so, no doubt), but the buck still stops at the top. Other than some mandatory training, none of these are to be disciplined in any way?
Forgiveness is available to all who confess and repent. The most heinous criminal on death row can find forgiveness and salvation in Jesus. But forgiveness does not remove consequences and restoration to fellowship doesn't mean restoration to leadership. I would hope no one here would disagree that the personnel committee did the right thing in dismissing PW. By the same token, those who harbored an admitted child molester on our staff and knew that his own family didn't even trust him endangered the congregation. The fact that they found no evidence of recent offenses means nothing. They could have and may have occurred. Those found culpable in the report should step down.
And please -- a man who's been a pastor for over 20 years didn't know the right thing to do in such cases? "Uncharted waters" indeed.
Ask yourself this question. If all the scandals and controversy now facing Bellevue had been swirling at Gardendale a couple of years ago, would you still have wanted to call Steve Gaines? If not, why should we keep him now?
I always fall outside Charlie's wise advice on this, but folks like Ace and 4545 don't come here to engage in conversation, but rather, to introduce static.
Remember that.
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