Everyone, please read the 9:05 a.m. and 9:33 a.m. posts by "charlie fox" and "imaresistor" and consider their advice!
Thanks to "bereans" for this poll suggestion.
About Me
- New BBC Open Forum
- This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church and the SBC can come to comment and exchange ideas. Anonymous comments are welcome, but it is respectfully requested that instead of choosing the "Anonymous" option those who want to post comments without logging in select a unique screen name. This lets everyone tell the difference between one anon and another without revealing any personal information. Under the box where you compose your comment where it says "Choose an identity," just check "Name/URL" and type in the screen name of your choice. You can leave the URL field blank. It would be helpful if you'd use the same screen name for any subsequent comments. This makes reading and following discussions easier, helps avoid confusion, and doesn't result in one person being credited for writing something s/he didn't. Comments by posters whose only purpose is to disrupt (i.e. trolls) will be subject to deletion. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
593 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 593 of 593Karen, I would be happy to meet y'all for the service, so long as it is clear why I am attending. It is not to be witnessed to, but rather, to show solidarity with the dissidents, if any still attend.
Trollcates said:
There is no objective proof of Christ's existence or even a God? I'm not talking about feelings; they are not compelling to the non-believer.
trollcates
I never mentioned feelings. Emotions are the shallowest part of our being. My faith is not rooted in philosophy. It's supported by FACTS, not mere opinions.
I'm not teaching my kids how to feel. Feelings change. We study the scriptures from a historical standpoint and a scientific standpoint as well as that of faith.
You obviously have not done any research into the historical credibility of scripture.
There is as much historical evidence of Christ's existence as there is for Julius Ceasar.
There is also historical evidence for the OT and the prophecies of his coming.
The fulfillment of these prophecies would be further evidence that the words of the OT and NT are not the mere words of men.
I challenge you to look at the evidence. Maybe you are not willing to look at it but do not say it is not there.
We, here, are truthseekers. If you believe in truth and have respect for it then you won't run from it. You will embrace it.
I challenge you to seek out the evidence for the truth of the scriptures. It is there.
As Forest Gump used to say,"that's all I'm gonna say about that.."
No, the church has not investigated him. Ace, on the other hand, has. There is a huge difference there.
If you are a church leader that is a difference without a distinction.
I will see you in a few minutes. I think I will mosey past your office. Meet me for coffee? Maybe we could play HORSE or practice free throws. You can shoot granny shots if you want to.
be patien said:
He disagrees with the way things are being handled.
He speaks out about what he thinks that he sees and tries to tell others.
You may not like the way he goes about it, but he is entitled to do it, just like MS and JH. I don't like the way that they have handled things, but it was their right to do it.
Piglet says:
The difference, here, is that MS had evidence and testimony to be heard.
If MS had just been following SG around saying "you're a liar!" and "That's not true!" much like a heckler in an audience,I could see your comparison.
Ace and 4545 don't share facts. They're just hecklers.
Bloggers,
Don't be distracted from the real issues by the antagonizers and detractors. That is their sole purpose. Stay FOCUSED.
Piglet,
Excellent 2:24 post. I've always thought it took more faith NOT to believe scripture because historically scripture continues to be validated.
I've been out of town and have had to catch up, but it seems to me a continuing desire to focus on the TRUTH has grown and I look forward to continuing to grow with (most!) of you!
Here in Exodus 6, it is interesting because the word "children" occurs almost every fifth verse. ("children of Isreal").
And of course it must be noted that when the king of Egypt ordered the murder of the male Hebrew babies, that was wrong.
But in 4:23 it says,
23And I say unto thee [Pharoah], Let my son [children of Israel] go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
The "firstborn" of the king of Egypt is a refersnce to all the first born of Egpyt. This would include many non-adults.
But God was warning this punishmnet if the king disobeyed. It was the king that disobeyed and all of Egypt with him.
Non-christians sometimes have trouble understanding that God makes the rules. None of us have clean hands. None of us deserve even the next breath of air. Our hearts continue to pump blood, our lungs operate, we are not struck by lightening in the next 5 minutes... all of this is because God gives us life as a gift and allows us to go on living.
But he decides when our end will come.
And none of know when our particular heartbeat will be made silent.
What happens when the blood stops flowing through our body?
Do you know where you will spend eternity?
The one with the answers is also the one that created you. And he sent his son to die for you.
In the crucifixion of Christ we have the promise that our eternal sin penalties have been removed.
If we will surrender.
Complete and total surrender and receive Jesus Christ as Lord.
In return we get the promise of eternal life.
I know of no other 100% guaranteed way to get to Heaven.
concernedsbcer
I've noticed a lot of new traffic on the blog.
Docbellevue is GREAT at laying out the issues very plainly.
Glad to have you back. :)
ILMC,
Are you Dr. Spradlin?
Again, this is meant as a compliment.
Docbellevue,
Your posts are so clearly presented. Please continue breaking down the issues as we know them. Then I would suggest that you combine them all into one document for distribution.
bible-in-a-year
Surely you know Mike Spradlin could not ever admit being on this blog.
The Gaines fanclub has already asked for his head.
Piglet,
I am not going to say that this is necessarily what I believe but I have talked to MANY people close to the situation who feel that is EXACTLY what Mark was doing.
Piglet,
You are right...DocBellevue has the knack of summing it all up! I hope he continues. Ed T and Finance Guy have made some great points too......
However, "worse before it gets better" will be very difficult and that's why we need to continue to "pray without ceasing."
Ju
GREAT IDEA! :)
Doc Bellevue: please consider this! There may be many uses for it soon......
Joseph (Bible-in-a-year),
I am not Dr. Spradlin. He is much wiser and kinder than I am. You continue to flatter me.
I've always thought Dr. Spradlin was WTB.
be patient
These people must be misinformed.
He asked for a meeting to present evidence and testimony. It never happened.
Isn't evidence and testimony by several witmnesses something to consider?
Doc Bellevue...Count me in too...please consider doing this...
Just today I talked with someone who STILL thinks the truthseekers are grasping at everything they can throw at sg simply because they do not "like" him. I tried to set them straight with the facts that this is not about "like or dislike" this is about RIGHT AND WRONG. Period.
concernedSBCer said...
Doc Bellevue...Count me in too...please consider doing this...
Just today I talked with someone who STILL thinks the truthseekers are grasping at everything they can throw at sg simply because they do not "like" him. I tried to set them straight with the facts that this is not about "like or dislike" this is about RIGHT AND WRONG. Period.
You are correct. I will consider addressing the essence of this crisis next. What else should I write about?
Piglet said...
These people must be misinformed.
He asked for a meeting to present evidence and testimony. It never happened.
Isn't evidence and testimony by several witmnesses something to consider?
My grandfather had a saying he like to throw out in situations like this.
"Don't confuse me with the facts".
That sums up what I'm hearing from many of the sheeple out there.
The leadership knows what the facts are, and I can only assume they are afraid of them, and continue to throw verses like Proverbs 26:20 out there. (If a certain person reads this, she will know to what I refer)
Aslan,
Yahoo will not accept my password. I will work on resetting it. Once I am able to access my email I will respond to your email.
ILMC,
So you and Piglet both think Dr. Spradlin is blogging here?
Wow!
Could you tell him that I think that there should be peace on Appling road?
I believe it is possible. Even at this point I am sure that all concerned parties can find accomodation under the blood of Jesus Christ.
For the sake of Christ (The Truth)?
For the sake of a lot of people's careers?
Let us continue to seek truth, let us do it with love. Let us do it in Peace.
We're all brothers (sisters) and the world is now tuned in to what we are doing to each other.
There can not be a single "winner" in this situation. The world will always mock whoever "comes out on top."
Let us instead take a stand for Christ that shows we conduct ourselves in love and humility befitting lambs.
Let the world, waiting to seee Christians ruin eachother's reputatins, instead see the Holy Spirit's "footprints" leave behind peace, grace, love, holiness,... dare I say: joy
So far there has not been anything that cannot be undone.
What we bind on earth is bound in heaven.
What we loose on earth is loosed in heaven.
Let us take off the "winner take all, loser leaves the time zone" attitudes.
Would you bless my message and deliver it to Dr. Spradlin?
Re: Trespassing
We can argue intent and motive and everything else all day long but the fact is that we will never know what was in the hearts of these men.
here is another side to that speculation...
1. you say that they had to go look up the address. Each of those men, with the exception of SG, could easily have known where he lived without looking it up. Perhaps they were already in the neighborhood or nearby by for something else and had a spur of the moment decision to go see him.
2.You claim that logic dictates that the intent was not to reconcile? Why? because they tried and were not successful? Mark tried to speak before the deacons and tried to talk to the pastor, and was also unsuccessful. He also gave up and decided that going further down that path was not fruitful and chose another path. I have offered up many options that he had (for example,writing a letter to the deacons and providing them in that way with information he desired to present, Bellevue can't stop him from sending information to their private homes). So I could argue that logic says Mark's true motive was to cause division and strife and reveal all this to the world instead of handling it within the church. But I don't know that to be true. So I am not going to assume that about him. I am NOT saying that is what he was doing, I choose to believe the best of his intent as well- he had a heartfelt desire to bring these things to light.
BIBLE-IN-A-YEAR
I don't know if Spradlin is blogging or not. I would guess not since there are several folks in high profile positions that want to be able to say, truthfully, that they are not blogging.
I'd sure welcome his wisdom, though!
be patient
I think Mark was attempting to bring this before the WHOLE CHURCH after being denied the proper channels. A mailout to the entire church body would cost in the thousands of dollars.
I do believe the church body had a right to know what happened.
NASS
More Gremlins. Please delete my duplicate post.
Can you get those little trashcans at Lowe's?
Doc, there are so many issues. You know, in my humble opinion, the thing that it all boils down to is integrity. "Flee from the appearance of evil." The credit card mishaps and some of the other "mistakes" pale when compared with harboring a pedophile. Yet, all those "little things" pile up to a mighty big wall, don't they? It's like I was saying to my son today, once you begin with even a few "little bitty" lies, everything you say becomes suspicious. A Pastor, while human of course, still should be above reproach. He should protect his flock, which was not done in the case of pw. He should be a lover of TRUTH. This is not about "liking" someone; this is about being able to trust and respect someone.
Piglet,
I hope you will not take this as rude, we all know how hard it is to convey tone here...
But I choose to take the word of people I know and trust that were present through all this than the word of anonymous bloggers or even Mark Sharpe. I do not believe they are in any way misinformed.
Docbellevue
You have mail.
2007
Piglet said...
BIBLE-IN-A-YEAR
I don't know if Spradlin is blogging or not. I would guess not since there are several folks in high profile positions that want to be able to say, truthfully, that they are not blogging.
I'd sure welcome his wisdom, though!
3:12 PM, January 18, 2007
I'm not sure what you mean... Do you mean proxy blogging?
be patient
I understand. However, I know Mark Sharpe and others directly involved also. They have absolutely nothing to gain by selling a lie. Many have changed churches, and this thing is very time consuming.
Howvere, the opposition to Mark Sharpe and others have much to lose - jobs, power, and even their pride. I would be careful about taking anyone's word if they have a stake in this.
Bepatient said...
here is another side to that speculation...
...Perhaps they were already in the neighborhood or nearby by for something else and had a spur of the moment decision to go see him.
Reply:
According to the statement that Steve Gaines has made this was not the case. According, to his statement the four of them were having a meeting and as they bowed to pray remembered the scripture that said if you have ought against your brother go and be reconciled.
Perhaps the facts really aren't quite that confusing.
bible-in-a-year
No. haha Hadn't thought of that!
I have no knowledge concerning Spradlin blogging or not (proxy or otherwise).
I just know some who sympathise with us who say they don't blog so if they are asked they can say "no".
offline until later
concernedsbcer said...
This is not about "liking" someone; this is about being able to trust and respect someone.
Reply:
I trust and respect EVERYBODY that I meet. It is through THEY OWN ACTIONS, DEEDS and WORDS that they either keep or lose my trust and respect.
Docbellevue,
I saw where you were having a problem with yahoo. My name and e-mail are on my profile. I would appreciate hearing from you. I've sent mail to your yahoo mail box.
Thanks
If a letter had been sent out to all the deacons, I can promise that any legitimate claims would have seen that letter and information passed on within a matter of days to the bulk of the congregation without need for the internet. He could have even offered up copies for those deacons to pass on if they wanted. He didn't have to mail to everyone. Bellevue is like a small town.
If Mark had tried to keep it a secret, it probably would have gotten out even faster....:-)
And for the record, he would have had to rely on that anyway because the bulk of the members would not have shown up at any type of meeting at that point.
Charlie Fox: Exactly!
piglet, for the record, the main person I am referring to has nothing to lose.
tim, no one has ever specified where the meeting was at, and the statements to support the fact that it was a spur of the moment type of decision not a well thought out plan.
For the record, I do think they acted rashly, and should have thought this action out a little more before they did it. I just think it is unfair to label them with motives that we do not know they have.
NASS: Sorry...double posted....no trash can :(
Thanks for your help!
bepatient,
I lack time for a response to each point you made.
Of course you are correct, someone may have known Mark's address. I can just see Mark Dougharty paddling around Mark's pool wearing a speedo, goggles, and floaties on each arm. So maybe he did hang out at Mark's. Despite denials to the contrary, we know Chip Freeman did. (Sorry, I can't see Chuck Taylor or John Caldwell hanging out at Mark's) Also, if memory serves, on the 24th of September the pastor made a statement to the effect they had a hard time finding Mark's neighborhood. Maybe someone else can verify my memory.
On the surface your analogy with Mark giving up seems solid, but that is only on the surface. It doesn't hold up because you don't know the extraordinary lengths Mark went to get answers privately. He didn't give up. He was shut down and kicked out! He operated behind the scenes, quietly, for months. I know the entire story and sequence of events. There is much that remains unsaid about those months leading up to the fence jumping. It will eventually come out and some of it won't be pretty.
You would not believe the incredible restraint Mark has shown throughout the last 7-9 months. He has been vilified mercilessly. Many would change their opinion of Mark and what he has done if they took the time to learn the truth. I suggest you contact him. He will talk to anyone openly and honestly. He isn't that hard to find, so send him an email or give him a shout. I'm not here to defend Mark. He can do that himself. Bottom line on Mark, he has never dodged the truth or any of these men.
When the facts are known, and placed in their proper context, this Bellevue crisis becomes clear. I did not want to believe it any more than many others do. I wanted to believe we had a few trouble makers upset about loud music and gift bags full of gifts and prizes. I'm sure some people are upset about the music and those gift bags, but this conflict has nothing to do with those things. It all comes down to integrity. More precisely, it all comes down to a lack of integrity.
Everyone at Bellevue should acquaint themselves with Occam's razor (short definition: when you have two competing theories which make exactly the same predictions, the one that is simpler is the better.) If you apply Occam's logic to the fence jumping incident, you are likely to arrive at the same conclusions I did.
Bepatient said...
Re: Trespassing
We can argue intent and motive and everything else all day long but the fact is that we will never know what was in the hearts of these men.
BePatient said...
Piglet,
I hope you will not take this as rude, we all know how hard it is to convey tone here...
But I choose to take the word of people I know and trust that were present through all this than the word of anonymous bloggers or even Mark Sharpe. I do not believe they are in any way misinformed.
Reply:
Whatever the facts:
Did the Pastor misrepresent the truth from the pulpit?
1. About Fence
2. About Original Apology to Dr. Whit.
Has the Pastor gone after lost sheep?
Has the Pastor promissed destruction to those who oppose him from the pulpit?
Conclude what may be in his heart - I am sure, like all of us, he has a true love for God.
However, have any of these actions compromised a standard set forth in Scripture?
trollcates,
I can't drag you to Jesus, but I can point the way. I would never beat you over the head to get you saved, but I'm not gonna love you into hell either. I'm sure we'll get together this Sunday. Email me (it's on my profile) and I'll let you know what I look like and where we can meet, ok? Looking forward to it! :)
I don't think anyone on this blog is missing BBC service this Sunday. Am I right?
Karen
karen
I don't think anyone on this blog is missing BBC service this Sunday. Am I right?
Unless we know that there will be a report from the "Personnel" committee, I think everyone should take a break from the Sunday Service next Sunday. Stay home and watch LWF, or take the opportunity to visit another church, and get a spiritual "breather" from this nightmare.
ace said: I never called it a blog. You're making stuff up... read my posts carefully, mkay?
From you open letter #2: Here's another question for you...Josh Manning is your friend, right? I'm wondering if he paid you for his website for hosting and webspace? He is on your server....that's the only reason I'm asking.
I didn't say you called it a blog. Please read my words carefully, since I've let myself get drawn into your little word-parsing game. I guess I didn't phrase it clearly and phrased it in such a way as to imply you called it a blog, but my point was that you implied some conspiratorial undertaking between Haywood and Manning because Mr. Haywood "hosts" a single, solitary file on his server for Josh Manning. Wow...that's some web site! I guess in what I shall call "Bellevue-speak", the posting of a small news article constitutes a web site, just as former staff members being treated like dirt and resigning constitutes them "not being fired". But once again, just like a left-wing politician, instead of addressing the issue, you attack the one bringing up the issue.
Since you're so concerned with Jim Haywood's web site expenses, do you know if the church will reimburse Jim Barnwell for any expenses he incurred for parking all the various domain names using the various combinations of save, Bellevue, church, etc.? As I'm sure you know, he parked those domains on the night of August 11th and the day of August 12th, immediately after the off-site meeting of concerned members on August 11, 2006. I would guess he parked them without cost, but since you're so concerned about web site expenses, be sure that he gets properly reimbursed for trying to suppress the free flow of information to church members in the name of protecting BBC. Have you investigated and followed up with Mr. Barnwell to make sure he isn't being overcharged?
All this and yet you STILL refuse to address ANYTHING of substance. Not unexpected, however.
Ed T.
P.S. If anyone wants to know about the domain names, you can go to namesarecheap.com and try various combinations of the .net, .org, .com domains along with words like save, bellevue and church and see who parked them (kept them from being used by others).
P.P.S. As for implying you said Haywood hosted Manning's blog - it was a mistake of the head...not the heart (even though we know the heart is despicably wicked and who can know it, right?.
Karen,
I too am a truthseeker, and perhaps that should be the dissidents' designation--I struggle with the signifiers for something apropos.
As Kierkigaard (and Einstien)pondered, spiritual truth is subjective--with all the love in your heart, you can tell me you know; and that if I honestly follow This, your path, I will know too. But a devotee on another path may one day meet you, and insist likewise.
The Bible is about as aphoristic as French philosophy--neither is my cup of tea. Wheelers and dealers, glorified carnival barkers and every kind of swindler has used scripture (in every culture) to cover their evil backsides. A lot of scripture gets quoted here by both camps. I think the need to frame everything in Christian terms convolutes the issue (SG let PW keep his freaking job 6 months after discovering his "moral failure."), and the church leadership is no doubt pleased by this tangled web, part prayer meeting, part cock fight--i.e. the admixture of the antagonists armed with their own verses and pieties.
I am not entertained, morally justified or any of that crap. This is truly sad.
Ez,
There are about 180 deacons that fall into every spectrum here. That letter would have gotten out. I can be as sure of that as almost anything else on this earth.
Doc,
My point is not to rehash all this, just that you can start applying all sorts of "what if" scenarios to this.
Also, for the record, how do you explain away the men that do stand behind SG and the admin? I don't think it is fair to blame it on lack of information when you are talking about deacons, Jamie Parker, Joe Jernigan, etc. Do you really believe that all those men were very Godly and suddenly have been turned in the interest of saving their jobs, etc.?
Why would anyone sign a confidentially agreement if they were quitting unless it was for money? They are under no obligation to sign otherwise.
trollcates,
You have written way above my understanding - I just don't understand what you're saying, but that doesn't mean we can't be friends, huh? If you still want someone to meet and greet and welcome you to BBC, let me know. :)
financeguy,
Didn't I read in the CA and on bbc.org that the results of the investigation are being presented on Jan. 21? I could be wrong, but I think that's what I've read.
karen
Ed,
What you say about Jim Barnwell "parking" domain names is true. My mother told me that before savingbellevue.com came on line. She had said it was difficult for Jim Haywood to come up with a name because "someone" (who we now know was Mr. Barnwell) was using up names containing Bellevue, etc.
Karen
Copy and pasted from bellevue.org:
Last Updated: January 17, 2007, 1:38 p.m.
Report Dates
January 20: Investigative Committee turns report over to Personnel Committee.
To be announced: Personnel Committee will report the results of the investigation to the congregation before the end of January.
financeguy, you are right. I am wrong. :)
karen
Doc-
What we need is a good chronolgy of events leading to this crisis. Certainly the issue of the Whitmier disfranchisement is necessary to understand the full scope of this problem with integrity, or more specifically the lack of understanding what integrity really is.
There is still the issue of the treatment of staff members, but this may be still too sensitive to deal with effectivly.
To the board-
What I want most is for all of us to commit together to work toward reconciliation. This means ALL THREE sides of the equation (I am including the fence sitters here). This CAN be done in love. It will take a strong commitment to civility and wisdom as well as humility.
We must ask ourselves and each other what it will take to restore this body of believers to unity of purpose, a total subjection to Christ, openness and accountability. Can we say that we love Christ when we excuse sin? Can we say that He is preeminent when we seek power and control? Who shall be first in The Kigdom?
Those of you who are here for the train wreck need to move on. Check your own desire for a drama fix at the door. These are serious issues.
What we need is a dose of discipline (mind and spirit) and as we know from our childhood, this will be not be fun or even desired, yet it is necessary!
More later, I just pegged the emotion meter.
trollcates,
Ok, after looking up "aphoristic" I understand your post much better! (karen turns a cartwheel and feels really smart right now! :D)
I agree that SG is totally wrong for letting PW keep his job for the "moral failure" - heck, let's call it was it was: PW abused his own child. I do feel for you that you feel this deeply to show your solidarity. BUT please keep an open heart and mind when you attend - you really may get a blessing. Deal??
Karen
I am here, alas, in service to the truthseekers; not the don't-rock-the-boaters. I'm a watcher, and I'll watch your backs.
We can talk theology when the children are safe, and the foolish are made accountable, whomever they may be and however thick it gets.
Ed,
I've let myself get drawn into your little word-parsing game.
I don't play games, they are a waste of my time.
"...you implied some conspiratorial undertaking between Haywood and Manning because Mr. Haywood "hosts" a single, solitary file on his server for Josh Manning.
Once again, your facts are wrong. There is more than just a "single, solitary file" - do your research before you post lies.
This is not a big issue, why are you even discussing this? I mentioned it in a letter to Jim Haywood and now you are making it out to be something much more than it is.
Karen,
My mother told me that before savingbellevue.com came on line. She had said it was difficult for Jim Haywood to come up with a name because "someone" (who we now know was Mr. Barnwell) was using up names containing Bellevue, etc.
So? That's not a crime...
ace,
Don't start with me :) I'm still feeling smart for looking up a new word from trollcates post so don't rain on my parade.
Of course "parking" domain names isn't a crime - I was just letting Ed know he was correct that Jim Barnwell had "parked" a bunch of domain name containing "bellevue", "save" and church.
Don't call me out, ace. We've always gotten along and I've defended you in my emails to you. You've never been mean to me on this blog and your response to my post to Ed was uncalled for. I don't want to argue today, mkay?
Thanks, Karen
I don't think it is fair to blame it on lack of information when you are talking about deacons, Jamie Parker, Joe Jernigan, etc. Do you really believe that all those men were very Godly and suddenly have been turned in the interest of saving their jobs, etc.?
I make no assumptions about the views of Jamie Parker or Dr. Jernigan.
I promise you many of the deacons, staff members, and former staff members see this my way. Do you believe those godly men have lost their minds? What incentive is there for them to oppose the leadership? Each of them knows the potential consequences of their stand.
So, what accounts for the others? Why would they stand behind the pastor? One senior deacon has admitted most deacons are too intimidated to speak. I also know that many deacons know little about these matters other than what they have been told by the leadership. They are not bad men. They are too naive and trusting.
Also, in the crrent environment it is not easy to get answers. It takes work and dedication. I have talked with deacons who questioned things I told them. Later they have circled back to tell me they had learned I was correct.
It is likely some deacons do not want the truth. If they get the truth and they do not like it, they realize they will be obligated to do something about it. They saw what happened to Mark Sharpe and Richard Emerson. Who wants to go through that?
I hate to say it, but it is also likely some have evaluated the conflict and chosen their side based on the potential outcome. No one wants to back a loser.
Karen,
Don't start with me :) I'm still feeling smart for looking up a new word from trollcates post so don't rain on my parade.
I'm not starting with you. I simply noted that what Jim Barnwell did was not illegal, or even a big deal. Haywood must be upset because he didn't get his original domain name choice?
Don't call me out, ace.
And I wasn't calling you out. I was simply responding to a post of yours. Nothing more, nothing less.
I've defended you in my emails to you.
This is true, but I can't recall you ever defending me in public where it really counts.
You've never been mean to me on this blog and your response to my post to Ed was uncalled for.
I have never been mean to you, yes, and it's still that way. Don't take my last post too personal. People here are acting like Jim Barnwell did something illegal, while in reality he did absolutely nothing wrong.
Bloggers,
ACE posts for one purpose and one purpose only. ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into the TROLL's hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
docbellevue
This is what really dissappoints me. Dr. Rogers taught us so well about standing for truth and righteousness whatever the cost. If all of these men who are so intimidated would stand up for what they know is right, there would be a number to be reckoned with.
My husband and I want to be examples to our kids. We really BELIEVE in scriptural principles.
We count it all joy to be persecuted for righteousness' sake.
Where are these men who claim to be spiritual leaders?
ace get a grip!
Regarding repetition, I work with students, ace, and I have to say, if I could cut and paste "be quiet" in real life, I'd do it.
Just FYI...
In the BAPTIST RECORD, which is the Journal of the Mississippi Baptist Convention, there appears an announcement from Wheeler Grove Baptist Church in Coriinth, MS that the REAL EVANGELISM CONFERENCE will be held there on Jan. 24-26. Guess who is on the docket? :) Sam Cathey, Bailey Smith, Junior Hill, Bob Pitman, Bill Saye, Phil Hoskins, STEVE GAINES, Bill Stafford, Mike Speck Trio, Greater Vision, Booth Brothers, and the Pfeifers. Just thought you'd like to know where your pastor is. I believe he is to appear on Friday. I'm not saying there is one thing wrong with this...I am just relating something I have run across in the journal.
I work with students too, trollcates, but when they disagree with me on something I don't tell the others to ignore them or to be quiet...that's just not the right way to approach the situation.
Piglet,
I BELIEVE in those principles too.
We were blessed to have a great man of impeccable character lead our church. When the need arose, he did not back away from a tremendous fight for righteousness' sake. Like Mark Sharpe he was vilified in some quarters, yet he charged forward. I don't believe he relished the fight. Rather, he knew an essential battle loomed and he was positioned to lead. He did not sacrifice truth because he was scared he would be mislabeled as divisive or a trouble-maker. This man's actions were always about Him and never about himself.
We watched this man lead for 32 years and now when we face a fight for righteousness' sake, most are scared to take a stand. His fight was in front of the world, ours is primarily within our own walls, yet we suffer a paucity of men with conviction and courage. This lack of courage astonishes me. How soon we forget the lessons of the past.
piglet,
Well said! I really sadded by the lack of long time ministers and lay leaders that I grew up with at BBC not coming out and standing for the truth. I really admire Mike Spradlin for his stand - and even for his grace under pressure after the CA article.
I am sadded that men like Phil Newberry and Phil Weatherwax have not come out publicly and tried to calm this storm. Maybe they have privately and that would be great, but I am hurting and have heard nothing from leadership to quell that hurt. It really is like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (whoever posted that first was brilliant!) or "The Stepford Wives". I'm not "calling out" the Phils I mentioned, they are just near and dear to my heart as I've known them since my Youth Group days. I do know Mr. Weatherwax (yes, I'm 39 years old and he's still Mr. Weatherwax to me) hurt Josh Manning very badly and I am sick over that.
I got to thinking about this coming Sunday and what I would say to Phil N. or Jaime Fish (I've spoken to him personally about the police report filed in December - it had nothing to do with PW). I just teared up at work thinking about speaking to ministers that I've known for a long time and how I could face them knowing how our feeling on the issues differ. Trust me - I don't feel guilty about what I'm doing, but I have history - I just started to cry at work and folks, that is a horrible feeling. How many Kleenexs I have to have in my purse in order to get through a BBC service is not how I want to prep for worship.
karen
Bloggers,
ACE posts for one purpose and one purpose only. ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into the TROLL's hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
Charlie,
Post that message again. I dare you.
I wanna be the 500th post!
:-D
Karen
Bloggers,
ACE posts for one purpose and one purpose only. ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into the TROLL's hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
Go Charlie Go!!
Karen,
BTW, glad you are doing well!!!
Charlie and the rest,
So it's okay for you to IGNORE those with whom you disagree, but when someone else does it it is evil?
Does anyone else see hypocrisy in that?
I can hear it now... "yeah, but..." and accuse me of not wanting "TRUTH."
Ace,
Mr Haywood gave me that website as a gift. He paid for it, I offered to buy it from him, and he wouldn't hear of it. He put the article that's currently there as an anchor for the page, and I don't even know how to edit the page itself since I don't do any html at all. What my paying for it has to do with anything is beyond me, but I think that should clear things up. Out of curiosity, what does the existence or possession/payment for that website have to do with anything?
And Ace, I'd like to meet you for lunch if you're up for it. I’m not looking for a fight or anything like that, I’d just like to talk with you and hear from you about recent events at Bellevue. If you agree, I'll email you and we can work out a time that's good for both of us. I'd be happy to keep your ID confidential.
Best,
Josh
fools parade
The difference, here, is that MS had evidence and testimony to be heard.
If MS had just been following SG around saying "you're a liar!" and "That's not true!" much like a heckler in an audience,I could see your comparison.
Ace and 4545 don't share facts. They're just hecklers.
I ,for one, would like to converse with any who disagree as long as we can discuss the facts.
I have absolutely no problem with opposing views being posted. That is healthy debate. My problem is with posters like ACE, & 4545 whose sole purpose is to be antagonistic and disruptive.
Josh,
It's good to hear from you...
Mr Haywood gave me that website as a gift. He paid for it, I offered to buy it from him, and he wouldn't hear of it.
Well, that was nice of him.
He put the article that's currently there as an anchor for the page, and I don't even know how to edit the page itself since I don't do any html at all.
Look into a program called 'Frontpage' - Haywood uses it, it's very easy to make webpages with that...it's WYSIWYG ("what you see is what you get")....very simple program, you should look into it.
What my paying for it has to do with anything is beyond me, but I think that should clear things up.
I'm just wondering why he charged Mr. Russell but didn't charge you? No biggie, nothing but my curiosity.
And Ace, I'd like to meet you for lunch if you're up for it.
How about a "virtual lunch" - are you up for that? :)
While I appreciate the offer, I think I'll have to decline. Thanks though.
I’d just like to talk with you and hear from you about recent events at Bellevue.
If you want to hear from me about this issue, post away....or email me at acefrombbc@gmail.com and I will address whatever you send my way.
Thanks.
Piglet,
Ace and 4545 don't share facts. They're just hecklers.
I have posted MANY facts here. They just don't last very long because NASS deletes them for one reason or another.
Maybe you should ask her about the facts I post...
Fine by me, Ace.
NASS
Look out for mail!
I LOVE MY CHURCH,
I am not Dr. Spradlin. I am flattered by the comparison, but I promise I am not he. Many here know me. They can attest to the fact that Dr. Spradlin and WTB are two separate people.
Also, Dr. Spradlin has said he has never posted on this blog.
cjesus,
Did you get my message today? I didn't want anything - just to say hi since we have talked in a while.
Karen
savingbellevue.com,
"Some people Mr. Ace are playing cards and others are playing monopoly. I am not playing any games. No matter what I say I can't beat you. Therefore, I am not going to waste my time answering any more of your emails. As much as Bellevue Pays you, do they know what you are spending your time on? God does.
Jim Haywood
Folks were are redirecting our efforts, therefore hold on, we will get resolve. We will tell you about it soon."
what's this about?
Channel 5 news reported tonight on the BBC situation. They said that the church told them Jan 28th all the reports will be presented to the church. David Coombs was the representative on camera in the church during the interview. The key take aways from the interview for me were the Jan 28th date and the fact that DC said that they hoped to "gain the trust of their people".
Dear New BBC Open Forum:
Charlie Fox has written so clearly in his post below the motivation behind people like ACE, MEMPHIS, and 4545.
ACE posts for one purpose and one purpose only. ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into the TROLL’s hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
The TROLLS however claim “ We have a right to speak here as does everyone else”. Why should they have that right? Why should they be allowed to make disruptive and negative comments, act like two year olds, and make all sorts of unkind acquisitions. Why are they allowed to deliberately attack other’s posts and their writers? Why allow them to argue and cause arguments?
Since SG does not allow open discussion to seek the truth or question him. Why are we permitting these TROLLS such right while their bellowed pastor does not? I would respectfully suggest that until Gaines and his CC men allow us to ask questions and get honest answers and the truth – this blog should not allow the bullying by ACE, MEMPHIS, 4545 and others like them.
Oh, yes, I expect a barrage of vindictive and spiteful comments to what I’ve just written. WELL GO AHEAD!! I DO NOT CARE!!
PLEASE, DON’T RESPOND THESE TROLLS.
EZ,
Where did you learn about that?
Channel 50 a cable channel or just local over the air broadcast?
EZ
Well, who wants to watch BBC anymore anyway?
Maybe the current station doesn't fear losing many viewers.
50 is over the air.
piglet,
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe ABC 24 doesn't want to have shows featuring ministers who endanger children.
There is no way you can spin this other than bad news. A mega church like BBC doesn't decide to move off the cable network. What use is all that HD broadcasting equipment that we all paid for a couple years ago now?
yeah, Channel 50 is really hard to get unless your getting it through cable or Direct TV.
And BTW, Channel 24/30 News isn't afraid to tick people off when investigating a story. Look at how they made King Willie Herenton squirm :p
Ju
Bad news for who?
EZ
I also thought it might be a vindictive move. David Perdue thinks he runs the world. He is a vscious businessman and holds a grudge. He couldn't remove Spradlin so he must be looking for other avenues to vent his fury.
He just gushes Christian love and humility........
Now watch me wake up with a horse head in the bed....
Here is the report from Channel 5:
Bellevue Baptist Church members prepare to receive report
Jan 18, 2007 05:50 PM CST
In just a week and a half, church members at Bellevue Baptist Church will hear the results of an investigation into child abuse allegations against a church pastor.
It's been an emotional journey for many people, which is why church officials say they're doing everything they can to insure the investigation is as thorough as possible, and they can end this controversial chapter.
Bellevue Baptist Church Administrative Pastor David Coombs said the church recently posted an update on its website detailing steps the church is taking to investigate allegations that one of Bellevue's ministers molested a child 17 years ago.
"We told our people we would leave no rock unturned in that investigation, and that's exactly what we're doing," he said.
Coombs is heading up the investigative committee charged with looking into the allegations and sharing those findings with the personnel committee and the congregation. His committee has three objectives:
- Recommend to the Personnel Committee any action to be taken regarding the accused minister.
- Determine who may have been hurt by the minister and offer help
- Review and revise church procedure
"It's obvious we can't deal with hurts that have taken place over a long period of time in a short period of time," Coombs said. "But we're interested in presenting an open and complete report to gain the trust of our people."
To aid the investigation, the church has hired an attorney and an outside human resources consultant. Meanwhile, professional counselors are helping interview dozens of people.
"We want to be sensitive to people's hurt, and we don't want to cause a problem for someone as a result of the work that we're doing," Coombs said.
Thursday, Action News 5 reached out to a number of church members who have emailed us their opinions. One woman told us she believes pastor Steven Gaines has been unfairly targeted. She just wants this investigation completed so that Dr. Gaines can focus on the church's ministry.
The investigative committee will report to the personnel committee this weekend. The Personnel Committee will announce its decision regarding the accused minister to the full congregation January 28.
http://www.wmcstations.com/Global/story.asp?S=5959164
Piglet,
The cause of Christ suffers if BBC is no longer broadcast on the local cable network. despite our concerns about what is going on internally those broadcasts have a positive effect. It really concerns me that they may be moving. Does anyone else know any inside details on this move?
I will clear up the BBC on TV issue before this rumor gets any worse.
ezekial said: Does anyone know why BBC broadcasts are moving to another station/channel?
piglet said: Maybe the current station doesn't fear losing many viewers.
koragg said: Maybe ABC 24 doesn't want to have shows featuring ministers who endanger children.
JU said: There is no way you can spin this other than bad news. A mega church like BBC doesn't decide to move off the cable network. What use is all that HD broadcasting equipment that we all paid for a couple years ago now?
With comments like the above, who were the people who just love to deal with facts only and don't partake in gossip? It's hard to tell...
Bellevue Baptist Church will still be on ABC24 every Sunday from 8am-9am
THEN, on top of that, Bellevue Baptist Church will run the service on Channel 50 from 9am-10am. - They are simply expanding their channels. They were not kicked off of ABC24 like someone rumored.
There are some facts. Take them or leave them, just say I don't give them to you.
Ju,
The cause of Christ suffers if BBC is no longer broadcast on the local cable network.
See my above post. You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Thanks Ace. Glad to hear they're not moving off ABC24.
GraceUponGrace,
what's this about?
RE: savingbellevue.com message about me.
Jim Haywood is tired of me sending emails to him. You can view them by going to http://lettersfromace.blogspot.com - I posted them there (and his first response) for others to see. I hope this clears up the issue for you.
Ju,
Thanks Ace. Glad to hear they're not moving off ABC24.
No problem. Anytime. :)
Ezekial,
I haven't seen the ad. Is it Bellevue's ad or Channel 50's one? i.e. who made it?
Ju
I beg to differ. If this man does not repent and change he will just become another example of the hypocrites on television.
That shames Christ.
I would rather he be off the air if he continues on his current path.
A call for revival, reform, and restored integrity for BBC--
Here are a few important changes that would help restore the trust of many members during these days of crisis in leadership:
I. Pastoral Accountability to the Congregation:
1. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... and any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!
2. The giving records of the membership and the ministers on staff at Bellevue should never be for pastoral review in any shape, form, or fashion.
3. No church credit cards.
4. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.
5. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members.
6. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.
7. Removal from office of ministers guilty of sexual immorality with immediate coordination with the appropriate authorities if any laws have been broken by a minister (no matter how long ago), including thorough investigation of the matter when the minister’s conduct may have affected other church members or their children.
II. Congregational Church governance:
Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church has a set of "lay-elders," a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The rest of the congregation needs to be awakened.
1. Those who are part of this lay-elder "power block" need to step down from positions of influence for a long time. Bellevue needs “new blood” in these key positions.
2. There needs to be the signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services for the church. These people should not be allowed to serve on committees that review bids for their services.
3. Congregational nomination of and election of all of the Board of Directors as called for in the 1929 bylaws.
4. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. **The current bylaws mention "monthly" business meetings! When were they changed??
5. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.
6. A transparent committee selection process.
7. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.
8. Thorough communication with the Congregation for ANY capital project well in advance of any vote. Building prayer buildings or any other type of building should be brought through proper channels to the congregation for prayerful consideration--not coerced "rubber stamping." [By the way, Dr. Rogers taught us quite a bit about prayer. As a matter of fact, I believe all of the current buildings ARE prayer buildings already. He and Dr. Whitmire also taught us quite a bit about worship also... but that's another topic].
9. Bellevue needs to reject Warrenism fully and finally.
10. Higher standards should be put in place for the hiring of "ministers." Seminary training should be considered a normal prerequisite.
III. Treatment of ministers on staff at BBC and members:
1. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members.
2. The end of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members; and the end of signing non-disclosure statements. All ministers who have been pressured or asked to sign such non-disclosure statements should be released from them in writing by BBC! Former staff should be allowed to address the congregation and/or the deacon body either in writing or in person without any fear of reprisal regarding their exit from BBC. The congregation needs to know how their leadership has treated and is treating ministers who leave the service of our Lord through BBC.
3. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.
All in my opinion as usual.
We are to be “providing things honestly in the sight of all men” (Rom. 12:17). Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."
Ace,
Your sure they're not moving?
Yes I am sure. Tune in to Channel 24 at 8am Sunday. Then at 9am, tune in to Channel 50.
From the Channel 5 story:
Thursday, Action News 5 reached out to a number of church members who have emailed us their opinions. One woman told us she believes pastor Steven Gaines has been unfairly targeted. She just wants this investigation completed so that Dr. Gaines can focus on the church's ministry.
Excuse me? How is it unfair to target him when he admitted to the church he had known about this situation in June?
Paul Williams and Steve Gaines are responsible for the investigation. Paul is responsible for his "moral failure," whatever the details. Steve Gaines is responsible for not dealing with it in June. He is the one who allowed this matter to fester, only to blow up in his face. He said it was "under the blood," so there was no need to dismiss Williams.
No one may blame Mark Sharpe, Richard Emerson, Jim Haywood, Josh Manning, Ray Saba or anyone connected with this blog for the investigation.
Steve Gaines is under criminal investigation and he has no one to blame but himself.
cjesusnme,
I emailed you earlier.
Good verses for reflection imo:
2 Corinthians 8:21 Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.
Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Hebrews 13:18 Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.
Acts 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
I love my church,
There goes another rumor, lie, gossip...whatever you want to call it. Where has Steve Gaines been named as being criminally investigated.
Name one person in authority that has named him as the center of an investigation. I will bet you whatever you want that he will never be charged with anything...not even fence jumping. By the way, I know for a fact that people have tried to have fence jumping charges made on our good Pastor.
overflowingwithgrace,
I want to set the record straight. I've tried to have the parties that were violated bring fence jumping charges against Steve Gaines and they have refused, refused, and refused to do so.
citizens arrest
The Truth is important to God imo:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1 Samuel 12:24 Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you.
1 Kings 2:4 That the LORD may continue his word which he spake concerning me, saying, If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee (said he) a man on the throne of Israel.
Psalm 25:10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
Psalm 26:3 For thy lovingkindness is before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.
Psalm 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
Psalm 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psalm 57:10 For thy mercy is great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds.
Psalm 86:11 Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
Psalm 119:30 I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me.
Psalm 146:5-6 Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:
Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever.
Proverbs 12:19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.
Isaiah 59:14-15 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Jeremiah 5:3 O LORD, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
25 Years,
Thanks for the update...just go ahead and cut and paste the whole thing.
Truth is important to God:
Zechariah 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
Zechariah 8:16-17 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates: And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.
Truth, truth, truth. That seems to be the word of the day. In the words of Pitate, what is truth?
Should our goal be to speak the truth, or to speak the truth in LOVE? Does the Bible say our goal is truth, or that our goal is love, proceeding from a pure heart, good conscience, and sincere faith?
Trollcates, any opinions? Aog? Zeke? WTB? Nass? Karen?
Faith,
I think they are having a meeting tonight. Haywood is obviously being pushed over the edge by Ace. I guess they are all on their private blog. It's much easier to argue when everyone agrees with you.
Stand for truth!!! or sit
docbellevue,
While you are compiling events of BBC, I would like to know if you remember all the reasons that was given for Dr. Whitmire leaving,? retiring? accepting a new position somewhere else? Seeking new opportunities? May not be the exact wording, but in general in the "bellevuetoday" on Sunday morning. A red flag went up for me then, why would he be leaving BBC? Too young to retire in my opinion. Why would he want to move away from family and friends of 30+ years? Made no sense then and makes non now. PLEASE BLOGGERS DO NOT TELL ME BRO. STEVE AS ALREADY SAID THIS WAS HANDLED POORLY. That is a understatement. RED FLAG. Is the purpose of saying this.
Next: Do you remember the sermon that Bro. Steve preached and compared us to AL and Bear Bryant and told us to "TO GET OVER IT?" Another RED FLAG.
Not to mention how he would start a sermon and end up bawling us out and talking down to us. I started calling him the "Angry Elf." from the Christmas story "Elf" with Will Ferrell. Had to try to laugh about it to keep from crying and hoping he would start to do better.
Just wondering if I was alone on these points?
God bless, I enjoy your post and it does not take so long to catch up on what is being said, when you stroll past the posts of the people you have mentioned.
Thanks again,
faithnhope said...
Truth, truth, truth. That seems to be the word of the day. In the words of Pitate, what is truth?
1. Should our goal be to speak the truth, or to speak the truth in LOVE?
2. Does the Bible say our goal is truth, or that our goal is love, proceeding from a pure heart, good conscience, and sincere faith?
Reply:
1. Yes
2. Yes
ezekiel,
Amen. I would challenge anyone reading to find a single scripture that exhibits love in the absence of truth.
"The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment."
Proverbs 12:19
The whole world is not worth a man's soul. Some sell theirs for a whole lot less imo. No matter how costly, God will have truth. Love also rebukes BTW.
CONCERNED,
It's important to remember that both Adrian and Whitmire worked past the Bellevue mandatory retirement age.
Okay, Here's the truth.
Trollcates, you are eternally separated from God. Enjoy your stay in you-know-where. That's the truth.
(Is it just me, or does that sound a little un-Christlike?)
The Lord Jesus said:
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. (Rev. 3:19)
faithnhope
wow!!
zeke,
If I'm not mistaken Mark Sharpe had a 'catch in his spirit' long before the dream. This mess did not start with 'Amen Kelly".
Perhaps Jim Heywood should repost the 'Interview With Mark Sharpe' so that we can see where it originated.
The news story that was posted sounds like they read or printed the a press release sent from the church. WE all know how lazy reporters are.
It leaves out a few very important facts.
1. It did not say it was an 'internal investigation'
2. It did not mention the investigation from the state
3. It gave no other view but a pro Gaines stance.
4. It did not mention the pastor being under investigation...becasue he isn't in the internal investigation Yet, he broke the law the harboring a pedophile which, at least, merits outside investigation...since they will NOT do it internally. At least the public needs to know that.
I think, in light of truth, the media needs to get another press release with that missing information. Folks, they are trying this in the court of 'public opinion' but leaving out lots of important information.
just some thoughts.
Lindon,
The news story that was posted sounds like they read or printed the a press release sent from the church. WE all know how lazy reporters are.
They weren't so lazy a month or so ago when all the stations top stories were about SG and Bellevue. But now they are lazy because it's not a necessarily a story that helps your "cause"? Come on, give me a break. Quit being so negative.
25+yrs,
Thanks for bringing some real truth to the blog tonight...
ace said: Once again, your facts are wrong. There is more than just a "single, solitary file" - do your research before you post lies.
But ace, you do play word games. I'm calling you on this one. It's one thing to accuse me of posting wrong information - it's quite another to say I am posting lies. Lying involves intentionally misleading someone with wrong information. I may be wrong on the amount of files being hosted, but I didn't "post lies" to mislead anyone.
You're right that Mr. Barnwell didn't do anything "illegal" in parking those domain names, but that's not the point. You once again miserably fail to address the point and try to redirect the conversation elsewhere.
And to top it off, you recommend "Frontpage" as a HTML editor to someone?! No wonder I have issues with you. :)
25+
Thank you for your posts. God's word will not return void.
overflowinggrace said...
I think they are having a meeting tonight. Haywood is obviously being pushed over the edge by Ace. I guess they are all on their private blog. It's much easier to argue when everyone agrees with you.
Uhhh, pardon me, but I was out shopping and out to dinner with my husband. I just bought a house and I was a Pier One and Chili's and the mall.
Faithandhope asked for my opinion about truth. In a nutshell, I think the truth hurts, but that doesn't make it any less truthful. I don't have a scripture to back this up; it's purely my opinion. I also agree with Judge Judy who has been known to say something to the effect of "if you always tell the truth, you don't have to keep track of what you told to whom".
karen
faithnhope said
If I'm not mistaken Mark Sharpe had a 'catch in his spirit' long before the dream. This mess did not start with 'Amen Kelly".
Piglet says:
Gee, did Steve do some MORE stpid stuff BEFORE that?
Bloggers,
ACE posts for one purpose and one purpose only. ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into the TROLL's hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
Folks, As time goes on a story loses it's shock appeal from the initial reporting and reporters depend on press releases for updates unless something interesting happens that merits their personal attention.
There are some who may not understand how it works, but I can guarantee you, Barnwell knows how it works if he has been working with the media long.
Keep in mind the timing of this last media story. Something to take a good look at...
Lindon,
It wasn't all a press release. They had DC on camera with the reporter. Also they did mention the DCS investigation as they were closing the story out.
Since I mentioned Judge Judy, I might as well say my favorite saying of hers is "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining". Not very tactful or scriptural, but really does apply to the half truths (who said a half truth is a whole lie?!) being fed from the pulpit.
karen
Ed,
But ace, you do play word games.
If you think I play word games, then it's safe to say that everyone else here does to.
It's one thing to accuse me of posting wrong information - it's quite another to say I am posting lies.
Correction...you did not post a lie. You posted wrong information.
And to top it off, you recommend "Frontpage" as a HTML editor to someone?! No wonder I have issues with you. :)
For a beginner, Frontpage is the easiest way to go. Either that or DreamWeaver, but DW is too expensive for most people.
Bloggers,
ACE posts for one purpose and one purpose only. ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into the TROLL's hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
Hey y'all,
I'm going to bed now - pray for me tonight and tomorrow if you will. I have a follow up appointment with my doctor tomorrow.
Y'all play nice! :)
Karen
I hope all goes well, Karen. I'll say a prayer for you right now.
Have a great night.
Charlie Fox--
Do you ever feel like you're wasting your breath?
Maybe you could better understand the number of continued responses despite your requests if you studied the case of Patty Hearst and how she became "one" with her SLA captors. :}
It's scary to me.
Dee
Ace,
I'm curious why an in person meeting's off the table. As I said, I'll keep your ID confidential.
Best,
JM
Honesty... Truth... Integrity.
Finally, brethren,
whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
(Philippians 4:8)
"Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name."
(Psalm 86:11)
"The integrity of the upright shall guide them: but the perverseness of transgressors shall destroy them."
(Proverbs 11:3)
Charlie Fox--
Do you ever feel like you're wasting your breath?
No Ma'am. I am VERY LONG WINDED.
Josh,
I'm curious why an in person meeting's off the table. As I said, I'll keep your ID confidential.
If you know who I am then there's always the possibility that it might slip. It's not an issue of trust, I just don't want to put you or anyone else in a situation where that might happen.
Jim Whitmire's son gave a full report on the actual FACTS of his father's retirement. I do not recall which thread we were on at the time; but, surely, someone here does and will repost here for us rather than hear a whole gob of speculation begin again. I don't think Josh Whitmire would appreciate hearing a bunch of bloggers guessing about exactly how it all came down. He wasn't too happy about it the first time or two either.
Dee
Charlie Fox--
Tell me something. Do you think the folks who post on here (yes, I am talking about our friends) would elect "ace" president if they had a chance just to try to get on his good side?
Dee
overflowinggrace said...
It's important to remember that both Adrian and Whitmire worked past the Bellevue mandatory retirement age.
The more I think about it, the more I disagree with the mandatory retirement age. If we actually believe what we say, that "God calls people into ministry", then surely God can "call people to leave, i.e. retire, from the ministry. This rule was another "arbitrary rule" set up mainly to remove Tommy Lane out of Jim Whitmire's way, because people were tired of Dr. Lane's 8 week 'cycle' of music. Has nothing to do with "godliness". In fact, I would argue that it goes against Scripture, because the Bible has a lot to say about listening to the wisdom of, and honoring the "Greyheads". I mean comeon, it's not like they are airline pilots at risk of crashing an airplane or a bus!
2006Huldah
To answer would be a distraction from the real issues.
Charlie,
You constantly posting that post one hundred times is the real distraction.
Go ahead. Post it again now.
People here are acting like Jim Barnwell did something illegal,
Rhetorical question...Why is the illegality or not of something suddenly the measure of right or wrong?
That's been the essence of the copyright discussion, and the domain name registration comments.
This is where this discussion had deteriorated because of the lack of leadership among the leaders of this church.
I would argue as Christians, the measure of right and wrong would be the showing of love, or lack of love toward each other in your actions.
just my one-and-a-half cents.
Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.
Moses and Aaron were the product of incest.
Or did I read that wrong? Or is this a different Moses, different Aaron?
The Mosaic law would later prohibit marriage between a man and his father's sister. Perhaps on pain of death?
I was wrong about the first incidence of slavery. That was when Joseph was betrayed to the Ishmaelites (Arabs) by his brothers in Genesis. Note: the Egyptians were **not** Arabs. Not until after Mohammad was Egypt overrun with Arabs.
We really need to make sure we know what is in the Bible.
(offline)
Bloggers,
ACE posts for one purpose and one purpose only. ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into the TROLL's hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
2006huldah
Charlie Fox--
Tell me something. Do you think the folks who post on here (yes, I am talking about our friends) would elect "ace" president if they had a chance just to try to get on his good side?
2006huldah:
I just have to ask what you meant by this?
I may be a little slow.....
Piglet,
I just have to ask what you meant by this?
I may be a little slow.....
It didn't make sense to me either, if it makes you feel better.
Piglet,
I just have to ask what you meant by this?
I may be a little slow.....
It didn't make sense to me either, if it makes you feel better.
EZ and Charlie
You guys are a riot!!!
We haven't heard that post in nearly 5 minutes...
Charlie....here's your cue!
piglet,
Uh, Thank ya, Thank ya, very much!!
Charlie: Keep up the good work....we need the reminders....
Bloggers,
ACE posts for one purpose and one purpose only. ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into the TROLL's hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
Hecanhear said:
Charlie Fox has written so clearly in his post below the motivation behind people like ACE, MEMPHIS, and 4545.
ACE posts for one purpose and one purpose only. ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into the TROLL’s hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
The TROLLS however claim “ We have a right to speak here as does everyone else”. Why should they have that right? Why should they be allowed to make disruptive and negative comments, act like two year olds, and make all sorts of unkind acquisitions. Why are they allowed to deliberately attack other’s posts and their writers? Why allow them to argue and cause arguments?
Since SG does not allow open discussion to seek the truth or question him. Why are we permitting these TROLLS such right while their bellowed pastor does not? I would respectfully suggest that until Gaines and his CC men allow us to ask questions and get honest answers and the truth – this blog should not allow the bullying by ACE, MEMPHIS, 4545 and others like them.
Oh, yes, I expect a barrage of vindictive and spiteful comments to what I’ve just written.
**************************
Your comments at 6:43 PM sounded just like mine a day or two ago. I see it exactly as you do, but I think you made it more clear than I did.
Dee
Financeguy-
What about your diet? Fall off the wagon?:)
Piglet,
I am sorry if you didn't understand what I meant, but to explain further on this blog would go against my principles.
Dee
Back to the intended subject of this thread - what we think SG will do regarding PW's job at BBC:
Assuming SG does indeed fire PW, how will he spin this in such a way to deflect the criticism for not dealing with the situation sooner?
Perhaps he will imitate Claude Rains' character in the movie Casablanca and state, "I'm shocked! shocked! to learn that there's a pedophile on our staff!"
Whatnext-
who are "The usual Suspects"?
ace wrote:
"I have posted MANY facts here. They just don't last very long because NASS deletes them for one reason or another."
Bwahahahahahaha!!! I think the Greek word for that is "baloney." (Or is that the Hebrew word? I forget.) NASS doesn't delete facts! NASS does however take out the trash from time to time, and that time draweth nigh (as does the time to start a new thread).
NASS,
Bwahahahahahaha!!! I think the Greek word for that is "baloney." (Or is that the Hebrew word? I forget.) NASS doesn't delete facts! NASS does however take out the trash from time to time, and that time draweth nigh (as does the time to start a new thread).
Did you not delete my posts when we were discussing Gaines' sermon series from last year? People were saying he lied and that he always preaches on finaces EVERY Sunday. I posted the true facts and that's the last instance I remember that you deleted. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Piglet said-
Gee, did Steve do some MORE stpid stuff BEFORE that?
Proverbs 6:16-19
16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren
huldah-
Wow. I never imagined that someone in my own church would call me a Troll, Bully, disruptive, and negative. Esp. when I have done nothing of the sort. I guess you should just be thankful that I have a firm foundation to my faith. Because those are some pretty mean things to say to someone. God make me in his image just like you.
Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight (Proverbs 12:22)
hecanhear said:
I would respectfully suggest that until Gaines and his CC men allow us to ask questions and get honest answers and the truth – this blog should not allow the bullying by ACE, MEMPHIS, 4545 and others like them.
Please show me where I have bullied anyone. Please let me know.
If anything it seems like you are trying to "bully" me out of posting. I have said maybe 1 comment in the past three days, and yet you still continue to bring up my name and accuse me of trying to "stir up trouble". I have asked that if people want to talk to me, then please email me, or they can reply to a specific post, which no one has.
If we are (ones who support) are such bad apples, why do you continue to bash, call names, question our intellignce and so forth, especially whan some have been quiet for days.
I almost get the feeling that you like the posts that disagree with you!
One more free standing post from me:
Yes I think Sg has made mistakes.
Yes I have accepted the apolgies he has given.
But I still have one important question:
What exactly did PW confess to SG? What were his exact words regarding the moral failure??
Until those are answered, I remain where I stand.
meant to address hecanhear as well on that last post.
concerned said- docbellevue,
While you are compiling events of BBC, I would like to know if you remember all the reasons that was given for Dr. Whitmire leaving,? retiring? accepting a new position somewhere else? Seeking new opportunities? May not be the exact wording, but in general in the "bellevuetoday" on Sunday morning. A red flag went up for me then, why would he be leaving BBC? Too young to retire in my opinion. Why would he want to move away from family and friends of 30+ years? Made no sense then and makes non now. PLEASE BLOGGERS DO NOT TELL ME BRO. STEVE AS ALREADY SAID THIS WAS HANDLED POORLY. That is a understatement. RED FLAG. Is the purpose of saying this.
REPLY- What are you talking about? To young to retire? Where are you getting this junk? Dr. Whitmire was PAST retirement age in the SBC. He had talked about retirement with Dr. Rogers long before Dr. Gaines time.
Next: Do you remember the sermon that Bro. Steve preached and compared us to AL and Bear Bryant and told us to "TO GET OVER IT?" Another RED FLAG.
Not to mention how he would start a sermon and end up bawling us out and talking down to us. I started calling him the "Angry Elf." from the Christmas story "Elf" with Will Ferrell. Had to try to laugh about it to keep from crying and hoping he would start to do better.
Just wondering if I was alone on these points?
REPLY- How SAD!
overflowinggrace said...
I love my church,
There goes another rumor, lie, gossip...whatever you want to call it. Where has Steve Gaines been named as being criminally investigated.
You don't know what you are talking about. When told Steve might face charges they stopped cooperating. He is indeed under investigation. Others are as well. If he isn't charged it will be due to the grace of the prosecutors because they know enough to indict him now. Whether they can prove their case is an open question. I hope he is never charged. I do not want to see him go through that.
ace wrote:
"Did you not delete my posts when we were discussing Gaines' sermon series from last year? People were saying he lied and that he always preaches on finaces EVERY Sunday."
Oh, yeah. But I was deleting everything you wrote that night because you'd crossed the line that evening. (I think you know where the "line" is without my having to explain or defend my actions.) That was kinda fun. I might have to do that again.
NBBCOF
NBBCOF,
Have I crossed the line tonight? I don't think so. I've been pretty well behaved, if you ask me.
"Trollcates, you are eternally separated from God. Enjoy your stay in you-know-where. That's the truth."
Well, as a contributor, I'm pretty much untouchable here for most of the time; the truthseekers don't respond because they likely don't welcome the added burden of being associated with an unapologetic booo-dhist. the bright side is that the don't-rock-the-boaters, I think, are actually a little sheepish about the "lost soul" watching in on christians run each other through. Talk about your witness.
So, finally somebody replies...to tell me I'm eternally separated from God and he hopes I enjoy hell.
Well, that depends on if you're there or not. Just say'n. TeHe (slaps knee).
docbellevue said- They are unwilling to purchase more plastic sacks for the library right now. When there is a money crunch, small things like that are often the leading signs of a problem.
REPLY- WOW
trollcates
This person that was so hateful to you was a Gaines supporter who wanted to make a point at your expense.
My apologies for their arrogance and insensitivity.
ace wrote:
"I've been pretty well behaved, if you ask me."
I didn't.
4545 said...
docbellevue said- They are unwilling to purchase more plastic sacks for the library right now. When there is a money crunch, small things like that are often the leading signs of a problem.
REPLY- WOW
What is wrong with that comment? It is true. I don't know how he knows about the bags, but it is true. Docbellevue has to be someone else on staff.
piglet wrote:
"This person that was so hateful to you was a Gaines supporter who wanted to make a point at your expense.
"My apologies for their arrogance and insensitivity."
trollcates,
I echo piglet's sentiments. While it's my personal opinion that you're on the wrong path in that area of your life, I find myself in agreement with everything you've written about the PW issue and our primary concern which is to protect our children. You have displayed a lot of common sense about the situation, and I've appreciated your insight.
Thanks,
NASS
concerned said:
Next: Do you remember the sermon that Bro. Steve preached and compared us to AL and Bear Bryant and told us to "TO GET OVER IT?" Another RED FLAG.
reply:
I'll never forget!!
Not only did SG say this
SG said this while AR was in ICU
taking his last breaths before going home...if my memory serves me correctly it was the sermon on Love Offering Sunday 2005...we were a hurting church family trying to adjust to a new preacher and grieving over the pain and sickness of our beloved shepherd AR! We needed love not uncalled for harshness...
...remember we had just watched AR wash the feet of the very man who said this!!
New BBC Open Forum said...
ATTENTION!
A NEW THREAD HAS BEEN CREATED. PLEASE MOVE UP! (For you folks in Rio Linda that means go to the front page and start commenting in the newest thread.)
Thank you,
NBBCOF
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