Story and video links to this story are here.
Commentary by Don Boys.
Trinity Baptist College forum.
More Jacksonville TV coverage.
This is part of a letter received from a group of concerned FBC Jacksonville members:
"We are a group of very concerned FBC Jax members because of recent changes since Mac Brunson came to the church in March '06. Absent the PW mess and the "itty bitty fence" fiasco, there are quite a few similarities between these two men who have taken over at FBC Jax and BBC. But that is not why I'm writing.
"One of our concerns that has surfaced in the last few days is whether Mac Brunson will still allow Steve Gaines to have a Keynote speaking slot at the Feb 2007 Pastors' Conference given the gravity of SG's situation at BBC. While we don't want SG to come, we would think that the concerned members of BBC also don't want FBC Jax to show support to Steve Gaines by allowing him to still have a prominent speaking slot. I would like to see a link at the www.savingbellevue.com site drawing attention to the fact that SG is still slated for a Keynote speaking slot at this Pastors' Conference attended by 5000+ pastors. Perhaps this would help some of the speakers to ask Mac Brunson to pull the plug on SG's slot."
"FriendinJax" wrote:
"Sorry to hear that the pastor at my church, Mac Brunson, didn't respond to your concerns about SG being on the Pastors' Conference agenda in February. I know that some FBC Jax church members have contacted Jeanie Blaylock at First Coast News, who is the reporter who broke the Messer/Trinity Baptist stories to let her know of the Bellevue/Gaines/PW situation. Jeanie is a member at FBC Jacksonville, and I hope she will be as upset as many of the FBC Jax members are about Steve Gaines having a prominent role at the Pastors' Conference. Perhaps her disgust over Messer's hiding of the truth [is such] that she will be disgusted with Mac for keeping SG on the agenda - and maybe she'll do a piece on it."
Mac Brunson's e-mail address is here for anyone who'd like to contact him regarding Steve Gaines' speaking engagement at the Pastors' Conference February 2-6, 2007. Choose "pastor" from the drop-down list on that page. You must sign your name if you expect a reply.
Ms. Blaylock's e-mail address is in the article in the first link above.
Note: January 4th's letters to the editor of the Commercial Appeal are here. You may recognize the names of a couple of the authors.
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502 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 502 of 502Rod Almondmartanti said...
"40 days is a time of TESTING and JUDGEMENT I guess that 40 is apropriate"
You know, of course, that I am referring to Rick Warren...
blah, blah, blah.....all day and night. Get a life!!!!!
Yes, and from the beginning RW has had a strange interpretation of 40 days. When you look at the now meaningless and popular "40" days, does anyone relize that is a time of judgement from God? The days of Noah and 40; the testing in the wilderness of Jesus, was 40, etc. etc. The fact that RW uses 40 days ought to warn us that this is all about judgement and a time of TESTING.
4545,
Fedup is very hateful and bitter to everyone. If you don't agree with them then you are a child molestor, theif, trespasser and you obviously are not aware of countless scriptures.
I am truly appalled at ace and 4545. You accuse others on this blog of hate speech and you both take the cake. Practice what you preach 4545 and keep your tongue from evil. Ace, why do you care if people are on here 24/7? You are on here quite a bit yourself. Your comments are like the pot calling the kettle.
I have only posted on here once. I was a member of BBC in the 1980's until I moved to Nashville. BBC is a part of me and always will be. I believe earlier today there were comments about the finances and why was it a big deal. The big deal is that the money comes from the tithes of the people. Dr. Gaines should distance himself from the finances. If nothing is going on, then the questions shouldn't cause a problem. Giving 25,000.00 to a church that thinks homosexuality and abortion are okay is wrong. DEAD wrong. That would go for any preacher even Dr. Rogers.
Pride goes before a fall and I am afraid that a big fall is coming. The praise of men is like wood, hay, and stubble.
My prayers are with those of you who are courageous enough to take a stand. God will honor that. Just remember that the battle is not yours but it's God's.
4545 said:
I am 100% against any kind of abuse. That should be common sense.
****
Well, I'm glad we cleared that up, but after you admonished me the other day for wanting PW to go to jail, how was i to know? You told me that it was "HATEFUL" to want him to be in jail.
The ONLY way a pedophile ceases to abuse children is when they are behind bars, and where there are NO children present. But please, don't take my word for this.. go do your own research.
It would be a very good thing if PW were behind bars so that ALL CHILDREN HE COMES IN CONTACT WITH WOULD BE PROTECTED FROM HIS LUST!!!!
So while your sympathies are with PW, mine are with children that he comes in contact with.
Thanks and I have found that out in the last few days.
4545,
Does this look familiar to you?
From a post regarding 4545:
fedupatbbc said...
Ok, i've been out for a while, and I have thought of something:
4545 told us in a previous post, either this morning or last night that we are all slaves and have no rights.
From the savingbellevue.com site:
David Coombs's views expressed to former sister-in-law
Several years ago,
I had the opportunity to discuss the subject of wife abuse with the man who is now in charge of the investigation of the situation with Paul Williams at Bellevue Baptist Church. I remember his exact words because I was so surprised by them at the time. He said, "As Christians, we are all slaves of Christ without rights. A Christian wife cannot demand the right to not be hurt physically by her husband." It will be interesting to see what conclusions the Bellevue committee reaches concerning Christian children under this man's leadership.
I felt a responsibility to share this with people who may not have had direct experience with Bellevue leadership. I was saved at Bellevue and was a member for 14 years. I feel very sad about what is going on and has gone on there.
Sincerely,
Dottie Coombs
I am 100% against any kind of abuse. That should be common sense.
Yes. It should be. Evidently, it's not.
God is judging HIS Church. Judgement begins in the House of the Lord. We are headed for some extremely perilous times. Who in the houshold of God is going to stand up, no matter what the cost for the Word of God and Truth? There is a sifting and a refining going on but does the body really want what is pure and refined or what is comfortable and pleasing to the flesh? This is the days of the apostate church and who would of thought that RW would become more popular in the Baptist churches than the reading of the Bible? Who would have thought we all would be asked to BUY THE BOOKS OF A MAN AND PUT OUR WORD OF GOD DOWN TO STUDY, Purpose DRIVEN? Even the name purpose Driven ought to have scared us away from it. WHO, if anyone believes in the Holy Spirit and being LED by Him? What about My sheep hear My voice, and FOLLOW ME? We follow RW. We follow sg. We follow what makes us seeker friendly. We follow the ways of the world.
We fire men of God who ask questions and want accountability while KEEPING ON THE PAYROLL a confessed child molester. We talk about being Baptists and not being true believers who are followers of Christ Jesus and hated by the world. We are told by Jesus that no one seeks after God NO NOT ONE! Yet our music and sermonettes are geared towards milk and seeker friendly.
Yep! 40 days sounds just about right at this time of moral collapse in the church. Paper shredder? That too. Also, the church and believers are to be TRANSPARENT, and we are steeped in darkness and lies and half truths. The leaders attitued is: Lets not confess sin and repent, lets smash and demonize those who question.
To those who call SG their sheperd...( a person who takes care of..protects)
Oh he did protect a sheep... PW!
Jesus told of a sheperd who went after the one lost sheep....
I cannot recall one time he told of a Sheperd telling a sheep to leave...
not to mention looking after a baby lamb and not the hunter of a baby lamb...
as for looking into money I was wonderin about having been taught as a child in Sunday School to prove trustworthy with the little
things first....but $300 is not 'little' to many....
And I do know those who could not possibly take their whole family to Gatlinburg during one of the highest rates of the year..
I became even more keen to $$$ issues when a deacon was happy to report to me Bellevue was paying a much higher price to be involved with the Nashville people than Willow Creek just to prove a point to the folks who did not approve of Bellevue being a member of Willow Creek!! 8-o
I truly am concerned for Christ's Church as a whole and for Bellevue. Thus my questions on my earlier post. i am sorry to just now replying back but I have so many responsibilities and sooo little time to read and type 8-(
ha ha ha ha!! Now I am DC??
Rod Almondmartanti,
AMEN
Looks like another one.
http://ethicsdaily.com/
just a reminder everyone:
Please email jeanne blaylock about doing a piece to expose the fact that SG has been asked to speak at that conference in Jacksonville, FL. She is the reporter that broke the Bob Gray story, as reported on this blog by Friendinjax
her email addy is:
jblaylock@firstcoastnews.com
4545,
Nobody said you were DC.
DC has more sense than you do.
rod said:
"The leaders attitued is: Lets not confess sin and repent, lets smash and demonize those who question."
You have no idea how meaniingful these words are to my ears! I had a man who likes to call himself a minister stand behind the pulpit podium and cut me off at the knees because I ask a simple question as to where he and his planning committee were planning on taking our church. One thing you don't do to a church being transitioned to PD is inquire of what they are doing. Nothing is transparent...nothing! Total darkness is in order for these folks. Smash and demonize doesn't even begin to tell what happened to us. You people in opposition to what is transpiring in secrecy under your noses at your church have every right to ask questions. Ask them! Even if you have to suffer persecution because of it. You have to stand up for Jesus.
SWTT-
Although 4545 frustrates you greatly, as well as others, would it not be best to respond kindly? Take away the hate argument and 4545 may be reduced to reaqwsoned responses.
Rod...
And another AMEN! :)
Convicted Child Molester Longtime Pastor of Southern Baptist Churches.
Sorry, "reasoned responses". The mind lost track of the fingers.
imaresistor said...
be-still-and-know,
"Would you be kind enough to share the names of the churches in Memphis that have labryniths?"
11:48 AM, January 05, 2007
..................................
Ima-
Here is what I have come up with so far:
Calvary Episcopal Church
102 N. Second Street
Memphis, TN 38103
Harbor of Health
(Hospital or Hospice Center)
718 Harbor Bend Road
Memphis, Tennessee 38103
First Congregational Church
1000 South Cooper
Memphis, Tennessee 38104
Lindenwood Christian Church
2400 Union Avenue
Memphis, Tennessee 38112
Church of the Holy Communion
4645 Walnut Grove Rd.
Memphis, Tennessee 38117
Wings Labyrinth at The West Clinic
(Hospital or Hospice Center)
100 North Humphreys
Memphis, Tennessee 38120
St. George's Episcopal Church (they have two; one portable, indoors; one outdoor)
8250 Poplar Ave.
Germantown, Tennessee 38138
Oops...sorry!
Convicted Child Molester Longtime Pastor of Southern Baptist Churches.
swtt said:
4545,
Nobody said you were DC.
DC has more sense than you do.
****
LOLOLOL!!!! still spewing diet coke on my keyboard!!!
On another note...the link you put up for that other pastor..I just read it and it's just sickening.
I have a 15 y/o son and although I talk to him about this stuff ALL THE TIME...how do i know that he is safe at church? Especially in view of the ignorance shown on this subject at BBC by so many.
When I called my SS teacher she tried to tell me that ' it only happened once'...
And one only has to read the letter to the editor from Grandma Billie to know how very ignorant she is on the subject.
With ignorance like this..no child is safe at BBC.
I'm convinced that a pedophile could have heyday at BBC right now.
kingdomrevolution,
I haven't had the chance to listen to the sermon you sent me the link for yet...I do intend to however, and will get back to you on it as soon as I do.
I agree some who have made their ministry investigating the various movements around go a little overboard at times. Every claim has to be independently investigated. While some, as WTB pointed out, make some valid points, there's a tendency at times to see a demon under every bush. I usually try to err on the side of angels as they say.
I'm very leery of the contemplative "movement", for lack of a better term. Early in my walk I got into a lot of trouble seeking subjective experience. God is a god of reason. I believe objective truth must first reach the mind...then the heart. Some seek to validate truth by subjective experience..or more dangerously, determine what truth is, subjectively. The Bible tells us to meditate on His word...the word meditate literally means ruminate...chew on...studying up on how animals that are classified as ruminants eat and digest their food is a helpful to understand what God is saying to us in this.
I hope things are well with you in Thailand. Talk to you soon.
So where is ace's website?..I'd like to see it.
The vast majority of the members of Bellevue are ignorant of what is going on. That sounds impossible but for the most part they have heard only ONE SIDE OF THE STORY. They hear the opposition bullied and villified from the pulpit and the Word of God shot at them, accusing them of being evil and unbelievers instead of concerned brethren. This to many is intimidating and they FEAR being caught even THINKING of what might come across as opposition. There is a silencing ban on getting information for themselves. They are told in SS classes to stay away from the blog! Not to even TALK ABOUT IT. This is from the fear they might hear Truth and learn something. So, they are told it is the Christian thing to do to stay in the dark about it all. They will be TOLD what to think. Then slick, slick pamphlets are sent out with THE Provda, meaning truth, to each members home telling the way we should think and what we ought to know and not know about all this. They tell us the ONE SIDE ONLY and of course that is what is now truth.
What seems to be going on here is the value of TIME. There has been a MASS exodus of believers with discernment who have left Bellevue because they could not take the hypocracy and darkness and bullying any longer. That leaves tons of new members and some innocent sheep that are pretty confused. Is it a matter of a waiting game? Soon there will be no resistance to the takeover because all the resistors will be gone. Just keep shoveling all the manure under the rug or into the darkness and deal with Truth leaks as they come up. The latest tool of deliverance is evidently a paper shredder, refered to henceforth and THE paper shredder.
Hi Brother 4545,
You said SWTT's list is not God's list. I won't critize anyone for simple disagreement, but please post His list for us. I am not trying to be funny. I want to see a list you believe God would approve.
Thank you!
be-still-and-know,
Thanks for sharing this with me. This is not good. The emerging church movement is doing well, isn't it. Guess we'll be fancying the desert priest soon. :) Monks, etc. :(
AOG,
www.faithinbellevue.com
finance guy
I am catching up on the blog and I saw a post where you said that a labyrinth was part of the plans for the proposed "prayer facility"?!!!
I always wondered why we needed a new building just for prayer but I guess I can see why if a labyrinth is part of it.
How do you know? Have you seen the budget for it or the actual plans?
This is way too weird and scary!!!
Rod Almondmartanti...
You have summed it up beautifully. What you have is the exodus of the resistors (discerners) and the new members who don't know enough about the Bible to have a clue about any of this and who are probably put into positions to 'puff' them up (pride) ... this equates into a majority rule. They have gotten rid of those who might turn this whole situation around by discernment...and in order to quell that, they have spread rumors and gossip about all of you so as to keep anybody from listening to you. Sound familiar? Then, they have taken on these new members and through various means turned them into positive votes. It gets worse. You are on to it.
I curious about the labyrinth also.
Also have anyone else heard any info on the supposedly apology that will be given on Sunday by SG? What has he done this time? (or not done?)
Rod,
I'm tired. Even if we join another SBC church, there is no policy in place for child sexual offenders, as evidenced by the most recent link that SWTT posted. A letter was hand delivered in September to the SBC asking them what policies were put in place to deal with all this and
so far, no response. That speaks VOLUMES to me.
It seems to me that we would be better off if we stayed home and watched reruns of DR. R's sermons and met with Christian friends for dinner once a week.
It appears that the public schools have a definite policy for sex offenders. It's sad that the secular world is more interested in protecting our children than our churches are.
As a matter of fact, the more I read and study, church is THE most dangerous place for a child to be in terms of sexual offenders. Churches dont' want the publicity so they just fire them quietly and they just go to another church.. ( well, SOME churches fire them..SOME churches keep them on the payroll)
I am at the point of walking away from ' organized religion'..i have always criticized others when they did that, and now, maybe i was wrong.
I don't want to be led by men who would think it's ok for men to beat their wives becuase their wives are slaves..and i don't want to be led by men that think haboring a pedophile is ok. I have seen the way the Communication Committee members acted, and I don't want them to be my leaders, either.
They are all corrupt. I trust none of them.
I think we will pull down the shades, and lock the doors, and keep ourselves safe from those who would call themselves " christians" from BBC.
4545
Just read your 4:11 post.
Are you Yosemite Sam?
I hope that no one gives up and stop coming to BBC. I believe that if we would just hold on and believe that God will work all this out for the good. Remember the song the choir sang that stated that if we would just hold on our God will show up.
I will be at the 9:30 service this Sunday. Serveral of you have asked to meet me. I will be there early. Perhaps we could visit just briefly. We must be quite and respectful as there will be Bible Fellowship classes going on. I look forward to meeting many of you. Please be in prayer, a lot of people are really hurting over this. I love you all.
Rod, truthseeker
I don't know either of you but just know there is a large remnant of believers at Bellevue who need your prayers. These are people who don't want to leave but need God's power and direction in order to fight this in His timing.
ALL OF YOU - DON'T LEAVE - PRAY - AND KEEP YOUR EYES AND EARS OPEN
truthseeker said:
Also have anyone else heard any info on the supposedly apology that will be given on Sunday by SG? What has he done this time? (or not done?)
***
I think its just more ad nauseum about the harboring of the pedophile..I didn't know it was against the law..i didn't know..i didn't know..i didn't know.. maya culpa maya culpa maya culpa
Just more nonsense jibberish, to shore up his support among the ignorant. It will be followed by a self serving sermon about forgiveness. Forgiveness w/o consequences.
truthseeker,
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/newsletter111506.htm
You might need to read this. All of you. One thing that frightens me is that how they use the young people to bring this in. The consensus is that if they instill this into the youth, it will continue. Brainwashing. It happened in my former church. PD. The parents just trust their church and have not the first clue what is going on. Parents...please stay alert to what is being taught your children. It would be a good idea to attend some of these youth sessions for yourselves. The parents at my former church were not allowed to attend. So if you get that...well, let just suffice it to say, you'd need to check it out.
This labrynith is serious...there are even online sites that can mess with the mind. Don't take my word for it...check all of this out. It looks innocent enough...but is far from it.
ima, that link was incomplete but here it is
Coming From the Lighthouse Newsletter
TS
If Bellevue isn't going to take care of its own business until it is forced to do so, WHY have not the authorities, outside of the chruch done something? Are there outsiders investigating this? (If so I hope it was PRE The paper shredder!)
What a sad day when Christians are not willing or able to take care of their own affairs and drag them into the public eye. Again, ALL of this is in the public arena as a direct result of refusal to deal with it honestly.
What does it mean we have to build a special building for a PLACE TO PRAY? Is it a place to "look to"? Is PW still the pastor of prayer? Did he help to design it?
An ostentatious building for prayer verses in secrete in your closet. Hummmmm Pray in secrete to your Father in Heaven... vs The Prayer Bldg. Hummmm How much will it cost of tithes and offerings? What will it be called?
If you read the latest article in Ethicsdaily.com about another pedophile pastor, the most telling part of the article is this:
"If the search committee at the church in Alabama had done its job and contacted the Maryland church, he said, they would have recommended against calling him as pastor."
I have often wondered in the past year if our search committee that called Steve Gaines talked with folks at his previous churches?
There seems to be a lot of folks at Gardendale and West Jackson that say some pretty strong things about Steve Gaines. I know of a few deacons that personally warned the committee chairman Chuck Taylor of characteristics of Steve Gaines that would not be good for Bellevue.
It looks like our search committee may have been so dead set on getting Steve Gaines that they didn't do their homework like this article exposes.
I have to believe that if they had investigated just a little, they would not have called Steve Gaines.
rod,
This paper shredder story is very interesting. I heard a similar story being told about 2 to 3 months ago about an electrician installing a 220 volt outlet in the office of administration to suit a shredder.
If this is true, would shredding of evidence be against the law if it was done before the charge?
Does anyone know what the law says about church documents and files pertaining to counceling sessions the church may have kept on individuals?
This may be huge if the destroying of documents can be verified.
Does anyone know the church secretaries? Surely they would know. It may take a deposition under oath for some to talk so their job won't be jeopardized. I know how hard it could be for some if their job was gone.
Steve Gaines and Mark Dougharty have threatened staff before with being fired for talking.
Truthsleuth...
Thanks for that...I can't get my link thing to work...matter of fact, I can't even find the thing! :(
When you get to this website and are inside it...please scroll down and go to this:
YOUTH FOR CHRIST - Still Using the Labryinth
This article also says:
"...countless young people are being ushered into New Age spirituality, while their parents think they are safe in the hands of churches and youth ministers."
How terrible to think there are those in our churches who will "steal" the minds of our youth to promote this demonic practice going on in the churches. If I sound dramatic, so be it...I am not being dramatic, but the practices going on inside our churches today are being not only dramatic, but demonic. I am very suspicious of the youth programs ongoing in these type churches today, which unfortunately are most of the churches.
Time is short...
swtt said:
"It looks like our search committee may have been so dead set on getting Steve Gaines that they didn't do their homework like this article exposes."
Have you thought that perhaps maybe they did do their homework and that this is the kind of man they wanted. After all, they are all sticking together...the same cause. Birds of a feather stick together. Perhaps this group of people WANTED this movement. I have know of this to be the case before.
What are our values?
They are being challenged.
What is more spiritual, to pray taking the knee or to pray with a clean circumcized heart and in spirit and truth? I'm NOT saying we should not, "take the knee", But God does not hear our prayers any better nor are they more spiritual if we are on our knees or face or standing up. God looks at our heart and what counts is not the position of our body but the circumcision of our heart. Are we praying in spirit and truth? Are we praying in the power of the Holy Spirit? Those are things spiritual and NOT OUTWARD for all to see. God looks at our hearts. Praise God we can take the knee but don't ever think that it is more spiritual to do so.
Is it more spiritual to "raise the hands" or to not raise the hands? Are we aware that when we raise our hands up to the Lord we are asking Him to examine our hands? Are they clean? It is important they are clean before Him. It isn't more spiritual to raise the hands or not raise the hands. It can be dangerous to raise them if they are not clean before the Lord. The issue in internal, not external, and what man sees.
What about saying Amen! If the HOLY SPIRIT and not man prompts us to do that, then it is from the spirit and in truth. If you are asked to do it, it can be dangerous and again external and for others to see or hear.
The music of worship is music that is mot more spiritual because it is louder and the drums are banging harder. What makes it spiritual is whether or not it puts us into the presence of our Lord and we see HIM and HIM alone. Not wanttaabe rock stars or entertainment and true worship is not to appeal to our flesh but to the spirit and the Lord. Again, we are to worship HIM in spirit and in truth.
We have in such a short time been filled with the external and lean on the internal and inner man.
swtt,
Progress notes (and all clinical documentation, including appointment/datebooks, treatment plans, termination notes, etc.) from counseling sessions must be kept for a number of years (not months) after a case is closed, depending on the state. Average number of years that records must be kept is 5 years. I'm not sure what the length is for the state of TN.
Not keeping records is both illegal and unethical and is grounds for a malpractice suit, among other things.
Today's article at Ethics Daily is very sad. It is hard to read stories such as this. You expect to be able trust a preacher. Then you read a story like this.
Church is such a good hunting ground for these perverts. We have not been diligent because we trusted our clergy 100%. We must all commit to protect our children. Demanding accountability from our leaders would be a good start.
How sad we now rely on secular police instead of the church to remove those not fit from leadership. Very sad.
rod a,
Excellent comments! You put into words what I've thought about the things I've seen happening at BBC for the past few months. It sometimes seems as if it's all just for show. Thank you!
NASS
Aslansown,
You rock!!!
It took me a few hours to to digest the implications of the ********eighth grade level material****** that you just gave me.
Since it involved Genesis 26, I had immediately followed a standard procedure from other chrono Bible studies when dealing with material not yet covered: I quickly started a place for future reference material. Your comment has the honor of being the first to go there. It will be a big help next week when Genesis 26 comes up.
The future reference place is in my profile or click here.
But after setting the material aside for future reference I continued to dwell on your ********eighth grade level material****** .
:)
REALIZATION (I'm yelling happily) .
Everything that the church is teaching is eighth grade level!!!!
Not just bbc, but all the sbc and all the denominations are doing this.
It is not so much a "watering down of the gospel" in the case of bbc.
It is the **dumbing down** of the material us sheep are getting.
This is a ****real**** area for improvement.
Think of it: Doctors, lawyers, local government officials, highly trained technical specialists, academicians, teachers, etc....
All of us sitting in the same bible fellowships with truck drivers, fast food cahiers, grocery clerks, movie theatre employees...
The only thing we have in common is the donuts...
Unfortunately, some churches create an environment of "don't come here unless you make >$100k/yr or more" and then they give some more academic style materials for their sheep... but they create such a snobbish environment that they do more harm than good.
Disclaimer: I have nothing against an honest person who never graduated from high school. I definitely prefer such a person to a crook with a PhD.
I'm just saying that when we dumb down the bible resources and feed everyone the same eighth grade material.... nobody is porgressing beyond the eighth grade material that you just used in your reply to me.
Does this make sense?
I'll post more about this next week.
Thanks for your help,
Bible-in-a-year
"Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall."
Prov 16:18
I'm worn out, folks. I'm tired of the same stuff over and over. I'm tired of posters who seem unable to discern between important issues and non-issues. I'm tired of the angry and often (dare I say it?) hate-filled posting on both sides trying to pass for reasonable adult discussion of the situation.
Here's what I think: Many people, Christian and non-Christian in this community are convinced that Bellevue is getting what she deserves. The belief in many quarters is that "...those Bellevue people think their church is better than anybody else's" and I have to say there is more than a shred of truth there. We took great pride in our God-sent, anointed and brilliant pastor, Dr. Adrian Rogers. We were far prouder of him than he was of himself (and that is a gross understatement). And I believe that God, who hates pride and loves humility, is using this time to take us all down a peg. If that is so, the sooner we are on our faces with a contrite heart, the sooner He will heal us and Bellevue. But it has to start in each heart...you know, being on our faces allows our tears to wash the planks out of our eyes. Joe Jerningan got it right last Sunday.
We need to love Ace and 4545 and anybody else who seems to want to pick a fight because that's what Jesus is doing even as we speak.
On a practical level can we--
-stop rehashing old news? Maybe NASS can start a thread just devoted to a consensus of the facts thus far...
-speak in love and out of love? Where is the joy we share in being saved?
-Agree to double check our facts and consider as rumor anything that is not corroborated?
-Smile when we post. It works on the phone!
If we don't do these things, those who oppose this blog and church blogs in general will be proven right. I personally consider this blog as the 21st century version of the church door in Wittenburg. Luther didn't post trash.
Sorry for getting so carried away. I know there are many of you here who have been deeply hurt in other circumstances and are all too painfully reminded by current events. My heart truly goes out to you.
NASS, I encourage you to use the big "D" key on posts that, in your judgment, don't honor Jesus.
...and that includes this one.
TS
FYI: Southern Baptist Seminary President, Al Mohler's health has taken a serious turn for the worse this afternoon. He is currently in intensive care being treated for pulmonary emboli (blot clots) in both lungs. It's a very serious condition.
lindon,
the latest report is that he is responding well to treatment for pulmonary emboli
truthsleuth,
you've got mail.. :{)--smiling see...
lindon,AOG,
D James Kennedy, Al Mohler, Adrian Rogers, the Lord is removing our great men of God rather rapidly. Makes one think about our future as Christians in this country, especially when we have members of our legislature being sworn in to office with his hand on the koran rather than the Bible.
I have often wondered where we are as a nation in the end times revealed in Revelations. It may be that this nation succumbs to follow the apostate christianity that we are seeing at BBC and other churches right now - today!
I believe the remnant is small in this country and if we do not continue to make a stand, no one will. Thank you all who are fighting this battle for the truth of God's Word. I appreciate your strength and determination, but most of all your integrity and your faith. Your words and your strength strengthens me.
mom4 said:
"I believe the remnant is small in this country and if we do not continue to make a stand, no one will."
How profound your post. How touching. How true. How tragic.
I have wanted to tell all of you something and could not bring myself to do so until your post. And what I am about to say is so very sad. It may well be that the church is what leaves Bellevue. Of course when I say church...I am referring to the Body of Christ. God is separating the wheat from the tarres. You people are the remnant.
May God bless you.
truthsleuth,
Excellent advice! No need to use the "big D" key (or the tiny trashcan) on that one.
I was going to post some good advice from the "Slice of Laodicea" site on this topic, but for some reason when you try to access that site tonight you get the "VCY America" site. Weird.
NBBCOF
mom4,
Praise the Lord for Godly leaders that have come before us. I pray God raises Godly men and women to take their place. Our nation and denomination desperately need new strong leaders who are not focused on self but on Christ.
I agree with your post that the remnant of believers is small in our nation. I've felt this for several years and believe God has taken His hand of protection off our nation.
What's going on at Bellevue I hope is a wakeup call to all Believers across this nation that now is the time to stand for truth. I praise God for you and everyone else who is willing to take a stand for righteousness without regard to personal gain or loss.
Truth doesn't consider ones personal gain or loss. It only seeks what is right before God at any cost, including our life here on earth.
May God bless you and everyone who is standing for Truth. Some have expressed they are tired and I understand but we are to fight and stand for truth until we breath our last breath or until Christ comes again. I am not going to go away or give up if I am the last one standing.
imaresistor,
I posted early on about the dross and the gold being refined. I believe that the Spirit will leave Bellevue if we are forced out. Jeremiah 23 is clear about the shepherd who drives away the flock. I fear what will become of Steve Gaines and his followers. I know his followers think they are following God's man, but I had an encounter with him over a year ago and the man is not what he seems. Scared me. Sometimes the spirit we discern is not that of God.
Thank you for your input on my post. I believe it with all my heart.
mom4 wrote:
"D James Kennedy, Al Mohler, Adrian Rogers, the Lord is removing our great men of God rather rapidly."
Well, James Kennedy and Al Mohler are still with us, so I wouldn't write either of them off just yet!
For updates on Al Mohler's condition see this. For Dr. Kennedy, see here.
swtt said...
"I agree with your post that the remnant of believers is small in our nation. I've felt this for several years and believe God has taken His hand of protection off our nation."
The hedge is definitely down around Bellevue. I suspect that Steve Gaines will give another hang dog speech Sunday morning and may even attempt to acknowledge that Dr Rogers did not know of PW, only because of the voices of many who are protesting, including Mrs Rogers. I suspect if he does, it will be because she has forced him, either by word or prayer. She is a great prayer warrior and a Godly lady. She will always protect her husband's legacy and his integrety. She supported him all her life, why would she stop now.
We will see.
cjesusnme
In case you are lurking..check your mail :)
NASS,
I know they are still with us, but their failing health is not a good thing for them or us.(unless you count their homegoing, and that is a good thing for them) I only meant that they are not in the pulpit - not that they won't return, but things are a changin - fast!
ok NASS,
New thread?
Concerning the remnant.
It saddens me more than anything to say that not only may we be small in number, but we also appear to be small in faith. It bothers me greatly to have to admit that for the most part we appear to be a group of cowards (the men in this particular, the women seem to have more of a spine than most of the men). We know what is right but don't really do much about it.
I'm not trying to get anybody's goat here, but you would think that we are at risk of a firing squad by our lack of action.
I came close to not even posting this, but if we have convictions that we don't intend on acting upon, do we really have convictions at all or just a grand set of ideas.
Suppose the Founding Fathers of our country treated their convictions in the same manner, where do you think that we would be right now. There is a lot more at stake than a chunk of land in this battle and doing nothing shouldn't be an option.
OBSERVATION
One of the amazing things about Bellevue was the ability of Dr. Whitmier and Dr. Rogers to create unity around Jesus Christ in our services. I never really appreciated that until it was gone.
The reason they were able to do this and their ability to do this was because everything was built around the Word of God and everything from beginning to end lifted up the Name and Person of Jesus Christ.
There is such a beautiful unity in Him, and only in Him. Behold how good and how plesant it is when brothers dwell together in unity! Echad!
Then one day a "straw-man arguemnt arose". It went something like this: in order for there not to have to go to two services, the music is now changed. It is better to change the music than to divide the church into a contempory and traditional service. THere you have it. The made up problem that was never in existance but came out of thin air. The solution to that problem was the intorduction of the newer, hipper and flashier and louder and brassier and star for the morning performances.
Wow! Where did that fabrication of an either or argument come from? Pretty clever though you must admit, because it did fool some.
WE did not have a contempory or a traditional service, when we were one. Our music was Christ centered and we sang a constant variety of choruses and hymns and spiritual songs we all enjoyed. It was for HIM and it was for the sheep to glorify HIM.
But that was exchanged for another type of music from a different source and we were told, "If you don't like, GET
OVER IT"!
Well, many of us never have gotten over it.
Who believed the "straw-man" argument? Look at what the unity in Christ has been replaced with...division, division, division and brassy noise.
We exchanged unity for disunity, the beauty of holiness for filthy rags of unrighteousness and worship for brown bag to stardom.
A false problem and statement were made, and the grand solution was brought in and we were told to Get over it.
allofgrace, That is good to hear about Mohler.
imaresistor,
Sometimes we look for big secrets or crimes behind untruthful behaviors. We do this because we cannot imagine why else they would be acting this way. My experience from my former church was that most of the sin was done in the name of face saving. I was actually amazed at the lengths some elders/pastor went to save face over their bad hires.
the other thing that amazed me was how some senior administrators protected certain people who were obvious reprobates. Why? It certainly did not gain them any spiritual credibility. the reason was because the reprobates were allies. And when you are building coalitions, any ally looks good in the beginning. you can always make excuses later and throw them over. I also saw many good people fired over questioning things that should have been questioned. One manager was fired because she suggested in a staff meeting that using tithe dollars to have a day long retreat at a sports bar was not a good idea. She was fired for not being a 'team player'. It was like a revolving door there.
This is all worldly talk and I am ashamed to even repeat it. But it is so true. We look for the grand reason...the big whammy and it is as simple as pride, greed, power, etc. We forget that those things are very important to some people. And, that the root of ALL sin is pride.
This lead me to a very indepth study of sin. I cannot remember all the scripture references now and my study Bible is upstairs so I will wing it. I think it is in John but if we really believe.. we will not be in continuous sin. We are never perfect but our sin overwhelms us with sorrow and shame if we are saved. It is our ATTITUDE toward sin that really is the indicator of being saved. Godly sorrow verses worldly sorrow. The genuine brokeness of our sin.
Memphis, in response to your question about how 26,000 people could have an impact on a city (my city is larger than yours...almost a million in the metro area) is to ask you this question:
What would being totally sold out to Christ look like in a person? Think about that for a while...then tell me how different your city would look if 10,000 people totally sold out to Christ in every way were living there.
Keep in mind, those 10,000 are working somewhere every day. They are raising kids. They are in the schools, courts, factories, etc.
Just thinking out loud because I ask myself everyday IF I am really sold out to Christ.
Am I living it no matter what the cost. I have a long way to go.
He must increase. We must decrease.
Mom4 said:
"Thank you for your input on my post. I believe it with all my heart."
If you could see my face, you would see tears...
Let's all remember the Rogers family in prayer tonight. This has to be so difficult for them.
Also, hold Chris Williams up in prayer. We get so caught up in all this mess that we forget that he has suffered at the hands of his father. His innocense was stolen from him. My heart breaks for him. I pray that he will find healing strength thru Jesus Christ.
We are taught that we should honor our father and mother. And we should. But sometimes, honoring a parent that has committed such agregious sins is difficult, but helping them to understand that what they did was wrong and that there are consequences for those sins is honoring them, too.
Chris will be unable to ' forgive' his father until he has faced what his father did to him. He will need our fervent prayers during that time of realization. Forgiveness is a process. I pray that Chris will be able to forgive his father one day, not because his father deserves it, but because it would be what is best for Chris.
Holding onto it is like injesting
poison into your own body and expecting the other person to die.
To forgive someone is not to say that you even have to continue a relationship with them, and for heavens sake, you NEVER EVER let children around the man again, but forgivenss of the person who sinned against you will allow YOU to get on with your life.
tim...
I don't know about the coward statement, but I do think that women, expecially us mamas, are more of a "get it done and move on" mindset. I know my husband contemplates more on an issue than I do, I see the problem and want it fixed NOW, while he ponders on the how, why and how much will it cost issues. I am sure you guys can appreciate that:)
I think also that the men (especially deacons) don't know what to do. Some have been so lax in their responsibilites as leaders in the church that they just go with the flow, some are so intimidated by the leadership, by their positions or their wealth or reputations, and they seem to sink so low in the bucket of self esteem because they don't have the material gain that ALL of the leadership has.
I believe that once we all realize who we are in Christ, that we will not care what others think of us, our self esteem will not be based on someone else's approval, but on the blood of Christ Jesus and the knowledge that He formed us, He knows our hearts and we have all that He has provided us with for His glory, not ours. We should use what He has given us, whether it be a testimony, a dollar, AND our spiritual gifts to furter His cause at Bellevue. I think that is all He asks of us, we just need to be willing to do it.
TS--- 8>) GREAT POST !!
Fact is I pray I don't get what I deserve but get His mercy instead!!!!
To bring up covered issues I have to say...
the FBI sex crimes investigater spoke to the youth parents before fall care groups started (to a not so large group of parents ). He stated his investigations brought him into Bellevue more than once.The latest issues have caused these words to ring again in my ears...and in my heart...we all need to be alert for all kids of all ages everywhere 8>(
imaresistor said...
Mom4 said:
"Thank you for your input on my post. I believe it with all my heart."
If you could see my face, you would see tears...
11:00 PM, January 05, 2007
I wrote it with tears..
jesusdotcom said:
the FBI sex crimes investigater spoke to the youth parents before fall care groups started (to a not so large group of parents ). He stated his investigations brought him into Bellevue more than once.The latest issues have caused these words to ring again in my ears...and in my heart...we all need to be alert for all kids of all ages everywhere 8>(
****
AT bellevue? Why did they come to BBC? Was something else being covered up? Why the FBI? That would be federal..I'm confused
fedupatbbc said: We are taught we should honor our father and mother. And we should. But..........
Just something to think about. That is keeping all things in context. In the 613 commandments of God in the OT, the same God that told Israel to honor their father and mother, said that the individual who committed the abomination PW committed would be stoned to death.
I recognize we are in the NT now and under the Law of Christ, and we are still called to honour our father and mother, But to exactly define what that means in a case such as this one isn't just a blanket honoring.
I too pray for PW's son and for his total and complete healing and willingness to forgive in the power and strength of Christ. As you said, for his own freedom and healing.
cjesus...good night,
I am getting some good sleep tonight as well - much needed sleep!
It was a good evening - no strife and the Lord was glorified! It is a wonderful thing.
Good night all.
Nite you guys!
I should probably get some beauty sleep myself, although I don't think that forty years would make much of a difference.
I've been told over and over again that I have the perfect face for radio.
Rod said:
the same God that told Israel to honor their father and mother, said that the individual who committed the abomination PW committed would be stoned to death.
*****
Works for me :)
Hey Guys. I just got home from the bowling alley and I wanted to tell you folks something I saw on my way into town to bowl earlier tonight.
If your going west bound on Summer Ave towards the Interstate, you can see a billboard featuring Dr. Spradlin encouraging everyone to spend time in the Word. I didn't exactly get a good look at the billboard so I don't know what the billboard was exactly for however.
I think it's part of a literacy campaign or something. The billboard says, "reading God's Word changes your life," or something like that.
Pretty cool, huh?
Yeah. Definitely better than the Bellevue signs with Gaine's picture. At least on these the focus is on the message and not the messenger :)
Greetings.
I have been lurking for some time now trying to get a handle on all of this and looking for a way to contribute to the solution for our problem. I have been greatly troubled by the failures of our leadership, even to the point of near depression at times.
It saddens me further to see the beginnings of doubt and fatigue setting in. As David said, "Is there not a cause?". I too have begun to grow weary of the same discussions and revelations with seemingly little or no effect on the leadership's thinking or positions, but know this, in the last few weeks I have been finding more and more people who are taking another look at what they are standing for. They are now beginning to admit that not all of the pat answers they have heard add up. Most important, the issues surrounding PW have begun to strike a chord with those on the edge of the battle.
Many now see that Bellevue is not the place of refuge from the evils of the world that they thought it was. Hearts as well as minds are beginning to change. Who here has a clue as to what God's timetable is?
Tim, like you I wonder where the spine is. I firmly believe that God is doing deep works now. Give it time. But while He works keep doing that which is right,
"7. Do not be decievced: God cannot be mocked. a man reaps what he sows.
8. The one who sows to please his sinful nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the spirit will reap eternal life.
9. let us not become weary in doing good, for at he proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
10. Therefore, as we have the opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Please, also keep in mind that this is our family (Bellevue) that is going through this trauma. Let's not bury the weak ones yet.
Thanks for listening.
In case your wondering, look for the scripture text in Galations 6.
fed up
I think the gentleman was here to advise on internet safety and other issues to help parents to protect our kids...he used to be a Bellevue member a few years ago. He sure gave a lot of food for thought...scary really. It was a general type program.
truthsleuth said...
8:14 PM, January 05, 2007
Lindon said...
allofgrace said...
Tim said...
MOM4 said...
imaresistor said...
New BBC Open Forum said...
swtt said...
MOM4 said...
New BBC Open Forum said...
MOM4 said...
Piglet said...
MOM4 said...
Tim said...
Rod Almondmartanti said...
Lindon said...
imaresistor said...
fedupatbbc said...
MOM4 said...
MOM4 said...
cjesusnme said...
Rod Almondmartanti said...
cjesusnme said...
MOM4 said...
Tim said...
Thank you for the honor tonight of seeing what it must look like in Heaven when the angels talk to each other.
I believe Jesus was definitely here in this place tonite.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying I agree with everyone's statements. I'm referring to the **way** you spoke **to** each other and **about** other people.
Everyone have a great weekend.
Day 6: Genesis 16-18 (Saturday)
American English translation ("NIV")
King James
Day 7: Genesis 19-21 (Sunday)
American English translation ("NIV")
King James
Aslansown, I left you a message above.
(offline)
mom4 said:
"I believe the remnant is small in this country and if we do not continue to make a stand, no one will."
imaresistor said:
"I have wanted to tell all of you something and could not bring myself to do so until your post. And what I am about to say is so very sad. It may well be that the church is what leaves Bellevue. Or course when I say church...I am referring to the Body of Christ. God is separating the wheat from the tares. You people are the remnant."
Awesome comments from you both. That is why I have been moved in previous posts that you/we are chosen for such a time as this. I reckoned that was why I was feeling this kinship to the people of like mind who speak out on this forum. Anybody else?
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:35
Goodnight everyone. It's great to be among God's saints...
TS
And all the little sheeps sing Kumbaaaaaaya!
Good night, sheeps!
NASS
Koragg said...
Yeah. Definitely better than the Bellevue signs with Gaine's picture. At least on these the focus is on the message and not the messenger :)
11:40 PM, January 05, 2007
Coming home from Wolfchase Mall today I saw that Bellevue has a new sign up just before the Appling exit. I like it much better!!
One other thing, Aslansown...
There was a portion of your comment that was specifically about Genesis 12:
Abraham and Isaac were given gifts as a result of thier sin not because God was rewarding them, but because the ungodly men that they decieved and the people they represented had the good sense to understand that they had participated in a great wrong (albeit unknowingly) and that just compensation was deserved.
Specifically note:
"not because God was rewarding them, but because...just compensation was deserved."
Is that correct?
The financial gain Abraham received was on the front end:
16And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.
It was not after-the-fact compensation.
As you see, once the cover-up was discovered, all that happened was Pharaoh asked Abraham to leave. There was no additional compensation.
now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.
20And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.
If you mean that the wedding gifts were not taken back, I could agree to that.
This will come up again at Genesis 26. I'll look for your reply next week.
Thanks for your thought-provoking reply.
Bible-in-a-year
2006Huldah said...
“That is why I have been moved in previous posts that you/we are chosen for such a time as this. I reckoned that was why I was feeling this kinship to the people of like mind who speak out on this forum. Anybody else?”
I, too, have been honored to be the humblest of sheep in this motley flock! :^)
Bible-in-a-year –
I think that was actually the calling of the sheep by name!
Just don’t forget about Be-still - I’m coming!
John 10 (NIV)
The Shepherd and His Flock
1) "I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2) The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3) The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4) When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5) But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."
IS THERE A WAY TO SHOW MY OPPOSITION TO THE ACTIONS, DECISIONS, AND WORDS OF DR STEVE GAINES OTHER THAN SITTING THROUGH THE STANDING OVATIONS? IS THERE A WRITTEN PETITION THAT HAS BEEN STARTED ASKING FOR DR GAINES TO RESIGN FROM BELLEVUE? I AM A LONGTIME MEMBER WHO IS OUTRAGED BY ALL THE MUD DR GAINES HAS SLUNG ON BELLEVUE, MEMPHIS, AND OUR JESUS. I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE MY CHURCH OF 20 YEARS BUT I CANNOT, IN GOOD CONSCIENCE, STAY UNDER THE AUTHORITY AND LEADERSHIP OF A MAN WITH NO ACCOUNTABLY WHATSOEVER AND A MAN WHO SEEMS TO GAUGE HIS NEED TO APOLOGISE OR TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS BY THE SUNDAY MORNING APPLAUSE METER. I ENCOURAGE ALL THOSE ON THE FENCE TO TAKE A FIRM STANCE FOR WHAT'S RIGHT AND FOR THE TRUTH. PRAY FOR THE UGLINESS OF SIN TO BE EXPOSED, AND THAT CHRIST WOULD BE GLORIFIED EVEN IN THESE TRYING TIMES HERE AT BELLEVUE.
blessing of the blog:
I have found encouragement, inspiration, and a spiritual challenge for daily living. I have been motivated to allow Scripture to be a guide in my response to the frustrations I had experienced within only a few weeks of the new reverend's take over.
I honestly thot it was just me and was prepared to find a way to endure it or make the decision to leave. Relatively new to the congregation, I didn't think it relevant that my early concerns should have any impact on the direction of the church.
There is a wealth of good, solid, Biblical information shared. I chose early on to see the good here and ignore the tendencies to express concerns in the emotions of the moment which sometimes do not serve us well. I do think wisdom guides us thru the labyrinth (pun intended - dictionary meaning as a noun - An intricate structure of interconnecting passages through which it is difficult to find one's way; a maze) of comments posted.
Good, bad, misinformed, ill intentions, all.....the Spirit gives us light to discern. Our responsibility is to reflect the love of Jesus.
The Blessing I have received from this blog: I feel I have come to know many of you....and I like you! I felt very alone and now I know there are other like-minded Christians that still see in black and white, that still believe in right and wrong, and still look to scripture and not to man. Thank you.
eprov,
I saw in one of your earlier posts that your name is Larry Mayall. If I many ask, were you ever at a church called Thrifthaven Baptist?...you can email me your answer if you like..my addy is in my profile. Thanks.
Good morning everyone!
Hey Nass
It looks like this situation has earned a name on the blogosphere. "The Memphis Mess" keeps turning up on technorati searches of blogs.
And this blog gets a special mention as one of the top ten evangelical "stories of the year". The reference is to "blogs run amok", so you know what he thinks. Anyway, the maker of the list refers to blogs as story number 4, and he mentions the Bellevue blog though not by name and not with a link. I doubt he has read anything here based on his tone and comments. He may even be referring to savingbellevue as a blog based on his comments. I wonder what his position would be with respect to keeping a pedophile on staff.
If this blog raises the level of accountability of leaders and specfically sheds light on the SBC secret problem of pedophiles and thereby protects some children, well I think that is a good thing.
mom4 writes - "Some have been so lax in their responsibilities as leaders in the church that they just go with the flow, some are so intimidated by the leadership, by their positions or their wealth or reputations, and they seem to sink so low in the bucket of self esteem because they don't have the material gain that ALL of the leadership has."
I am sorry. I was not aware of your training in psychological matters nor had I been aware that you were on such an intimate relationship with our deacon body to make such a concise assessment of their psychological makeup.
And this is written as if fact? I know you will claim this was your opinion but it's written in a grammatical structure which makes it appear factual. And this is just one example.
Wow, bin wonderin! Thanks.
Just My Opinion said...
"mom4 writes - "Some have been so lax in their responsibilities as leaders in the church that they just go with the flow, some are so intimidated by the leadership, by their positions or their wealth or reputations, and they seem to sink so low in the bucket of self esteem because they don't have the material gain that ALL of the leadership has."
I am sorry. I was not aware of your training in psychological matters nor had I been aware that you were on such an intimate relationship with our deacon body to make such a concise assessment of their psychological makeup.
And this is written as if fact? I know you will claim this was your opinion but it's written in a grammatical structure which makes it appear factual. And this is just one example."
9:03 AM, January 06, 2007
Sorry JMO, the operative word is "some" and I do have psychological training - to a very large degree I may add. Do you?
I can recognize a narcissistic pastor in a heartbeat - if you do not see it at this point (it is blatantly obvious), perhaps you need to ask the Lord to remove the scales from your eyes.
IMHO:)
I am moving on to the new thread now...
ATTENTION!
A NEW THREAD HAS BEEN STARTED. PLEASE MOVE UP AND CONTINUE!
Thank you,
NBBCOF
I have read all the information on your site and am very dishearten by what Steve Gaines has done. I must tell you much of what I have heard of
your pastor was similar to Bartlett Baptist Church several years ago, when we asked a pastor to resign.
All the meeting, closed session, arrogants and lack pastoring ability.
We were a large church and then the first of 7 splits occured. What remains now is only a small, broke, and sad church. I attended your womens ministry for several years. I now know it has been reduced and really no longer wants outsiders.
I have to tell you. it's hard to find a God loving, growing, family based church in this city anymore.
What I have found while looking for a new church home, has been small, new age, new style church trying hard not to look like a church. I missed the days of old at Bartlett Baptist, Germantown Baptist and Bellevue Baptist, where families worshiped and pastor preached God word with out selfserving causes. Where our churches were united in
one cause. Salvation. And those who harmed children were keep at a distance. You can say all you want about Steve Gaines, but he is only the pastor, not the church. YOU must take back your church and set it back into a Godly order as soon as possible, or you too will be looking in sorrow for a new church home only to find there are none out there anymore.
pamelabd@aol.com
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