Channel 5 is supposed to air a new story on today's 5:00, 6:00, and 10:00 p.m. broadcasts.
Channel 3's Mike Matthews did an interview with David Brown this afternoon that is supposed to air at 5:00, 6:00, and 10:00 p.m.
From the January 28th BellevueToday:
"Following the evening Worship Service tonight, the Investigative Team and the Personnel Committee will give their reports regarding Paul Williams. Due to the delicate nature of some issues that will be discussed, it is recommended that children not be present during the report time."
And here they are.
So now that it's over, what are your thoughts?
Media Coverage:
The Commercial Appeal's story is here.
Channel 5's coverage is here.
FOX13's coverage is here and here.
Channel 24's coverage is here.
The latest from EthicsDaily.com is here.
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563 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 563 of 563stonethrower,
I'm pretty certain that the DA's office and DCS will determine if charges will be filed, once they've finished their investigation...I'm also certain that neither you nor anyone else sets the zero tolerance bar, except the civil authorities.
overflowing,
One big difference is the age of the victim at the time of knowledge. If SG learns of the crime when the victim is 17, that seems much different than when he is 34.
Overflowing, I dont' mean to be argumentative, but I must respectfully disagree :)
The problem with child molestors is that they have a history of repeated abuse, and with many victims. Steve Gaines was not the one to make the determination if PW was or was not going to do that again. The law states that you MUST report it, regardless of how old the victime is, because we don't know but what the perp is still out there molesting children.
Let me give you an example:
I am now 51 years old. When I turned around 30, and I was able to face what had happened to me, I called the D.A. in Gulfport, MS to advise them that my stepfather was living there,and what he had done to me and to my sister. At that time, the D. A. told me that it was too late to press charges against him for what he did to us.
I found out about 10 years later that he had molested other children.
Just becuase I was 30 when I reported it, did not mean that he was not up to his old tricks on other children.
This is why it MUST be reported. It doesn't matter if the victim is 17 or 34 or 51. If the perp is alive, he needs to be reported.
I have read everything I can get my hands on over the years on this subject. Pedophiles are RARELY rehabilitated, if ever. In my reading and research, I have never heard of one.
Does this make sense?
Perhaps I need to clarify my previous post. I am not in a position to determine anyone's consequences. That is not my job. At the same time, I do understand that there are laws for situations such as these. Pastors and leaders are held to higher standards (James 3:1)biblically as well.
Sick,
I agree 100%...you self reported. That was my point about the victim being underage. I think SG should have reported in June. It's easy to say that now. I also understand the situation he was in..Mr & Mrs. PW in his office confessing and saying all has been resolved. At the same time people are hounding him everyday about the music, whitmire, seeker sensitive, salary, stealing.
Regarding the discussion about Mrs. PW...
If I learned she knew about the abuse during the time it was happening, I'd agree she should be held accountable. But we were told she didn't know about it until 1994, some 4-5 years after the fact. None of us were privy to the Williams family dynamics, but I suspect from the time she learned about it, she watched PW like a hawk and that if she even suspected any further abuse she would have blown the whistle.
Really, CW and his family have endured enough pain, don't you think? Can we discuss something else besides Mrs. W's culpability in this matter? Surely the D.A.'s office and DCS are considering that in their investigation.
New BBC Open Forum said...
heardenuf wrote:
"Who does everyone think is the "non Bellevue psychologist" and the former retired staff member?"
What does it matter who we think they might be? Any comment speculating about this in which names are mentioned will be deleted.
Response: LOL. Well, in the past many people have speculated, so what is stopping them now. Why didn't you delete all of the speculation in the past several months? I thought "we" were after truth.
Overflowing... said:
"One big difference is the age of the victim at the time of knowledge. If SG learns of the crime when the victim is 17, that seems much different than when he is 34."
25+ says:
These numbers cited by OFG--17 years apart-- seem to confuse the issue. The victim was a preeteen (10-12) when it happened. He is about 27 or 28 now I believe. Where was the immediate concern for the children of Bellevue? Where was any biblical sense? This is not a minor event. This tops the event in the letter to the Corinthians. No one knows for certain in the Corinthian matter whether this it was his birth mother or not. Since that sin was perhaps the most grevious sin of the flesh in the early history of the church... Where does this fall in relation to other "moral failures" of church history? This makes the "Scarlet Letter" look like "trespassing." Unchartered waters? Seems more like inconvenient scandal. jmo
The "Policy and Procedures Manual" for this problem already existed and is crystal clear. It has 66 books and comes in several translations.
concerned,
The authorities will determine any legal consequences.
Thank you new bbc open forum. I think that is only fair.
AOG: exactly
heardenuf,
I recognize a loaded question for what it is. My statement stands.
NBBCOF
25 yrs,
That was not my point. Although I thought he was older now. My point was if the victime was a minor at the time that SG found out. Once he can self report I see it as different. That being said, I think he made a mistake, but I am going to forgive and move on. I hope you can find it in your heart to do the same.
newbbc openforum said:
but I suspect from the time she learned about it, she watched PW like a hawk and that if she even suspected any further abuse she would have blown the whistle.
Response:
Do you think she followed him to work, went with him to the restroom etc.
I find your sudden concern for these people a little strange. Steve Gaines found out from Paul & HIS WIFE, in June of 2006 and people want him to go to jail, but Paul's wife knew for 14 years and "watching him like a hawk" gets her off?
For the record, I don't think Paul's wife or Steve Gaines should go to jail. The question of Steve's employment as Pastor does need to be discussed.
AOG,
And the majority at BBC will decide if SG stays or goes.
New BBC Open Forum said...
heardenuf,
I recognize a loaded question for what it is. My statement stands.
NBBCOF
Response: Exactly! Just trying to expose a little double standard around here. Thanks for helping! ;)
I'm gone for the night.
Play nice!
Perrin
ilovemychurch said...
We got part of the story last night. I'm anxious for the rest of the story to come out.
*******
No doubt this will be good news.
Dee
"And the majority at BBC will decide if SG stays or goes."
Well I tend to think God pretty much decides whatever happens in His world...don't you?
Unchartered waters? Seems more like inconvenient scandal. jmo
Absolutely! I share this opinion. The evidence sure seems to point in this direction...
AOG,
Thats Right....he is in control of it all. You should let him be.
Overflowing...
Forgive... certainly. But consequences related to qualifications for office remain. I can't keep that harvest from coming in.
About that majority... the investigation is not over.
jmo
No doubt this will be good news.
Dee
Good News!!!Good News!!!
None of this is good news...no matter what side you are on.
i love my church,
Your posts have always been enlightening and filled with wisdom.
Please e-mail. I understand if that is not possible, but would appreciate an acknowledgement that my request has not been overlooked.
Thank You.
Me?...LET God be?...it's not possible for me to thwart God's plans and purposes. Check the Bible...one or two I think thought they could do that..one as I recall walked around on all fours and ate grass till he gave glory to God.
I didn't say what it was loaded with! But I smelled it before I read it, Perrin.
Beware, folks. This may or may not have been posted by "Perrin Jones," but he obviously wants to give that impression. Don't feed it. Perrin Jones, by the way, was the deacon who requested that no one contact him with questions and demanded his e-mail address be taken off the deacons' e-mail list.
NBBCOF
P.S. Is there a full moon tonight?
When any of you force our pastor to step down...should we all go find another Church, because you cant move on. 300happy&stay, 6000 leave
God's not too impressed with numbers anyhow..and He's no respecter of persons...remember Gideon?
AOG,
What do you call your actions? Certainly you are trying to divide a church. What if you are wrong. Are you willing to stand before God and say yes I worked to divide BBC. I felt it was right. God is in control and he sure doesnt need any of us (me included) on this blog.
AOG wrote:
"God's not too impressed with numbers anyhow..and He's no respecter of persons...remember Gideon?"
Who, this Gideon? I think a lot of us can sympathize with that sheep. Ouch!
NASS
Overflowing...
There are thousands not hundreds... some going to BFC and not service... others visiting other churches as refugees... still others have given up and left a church of a lifetime... I suspect most of them have been at Bellevue longer than you. You should get the propaganda of the day award for that one. imo
ofg,
You're making a huge leap saying I'm trying to divide a church...I'm doing exactly what you're doing...standing on what I believe is right. Could I say you're dividing the church?...I don't make that claim.
Our Bible Fellowship attendance77 or 110. Where is the drop off.
77 of 110
Overflowing...
The one who is causing division is the one who is appointing (from the top down) Communications Committees and who will not meet with deacons who have concerns or laymen who say amen or consistently "provide things honestly in the sight of all men." That guilt trip won't work here. imo
From the "report" ... in section III, under "Scope of Interviews," the individuals interviewed by the team are listed. The first listing is PW and "those family members who were directly and indirectly affected" by his actions.
Perhaps it's just me -- but if PW's victim was specifically interviewed, why didn't they list him separately? Are we sure he WAS interviewed? The caveat paragraph that follows, describing persons of interest who declined to talk to the team -- I assumed that to mean individuals who had no trust in the outcome of the investigation. But on reading today, I wondered if that could include PW's son.
It just seems to me, as central as he is to this entire story, he deserved to be treated as more than just someone who was "affected directly or indirectly" by the team.
Again, and I am sincere in this question, are we positive PW's son was interviewed by the investigative team?
Overflowing: Thats Right....he is in control of it all. You should let him be."
Be careful. He can turn someone over to delusion who repeatedly ignores His Word. He can harden hearts. And does.
Overflowing: What do you call your actions? Certainly you are trying to divide a church. What if you are wrong. Are you willing to stand before God and say yes I worked to divide BBC. I felt it was right. God is in control and he sure doesnt need any of us (me included) on this blog."
Why did He leave us His Word?
What if the question is this: Did you stand for the truth in my Word? Are you going to say, well, in this case it did not really fit…
Before you answer yes, consider that your pastor did not stand on the truth of His Word in this situation. He ignored it. Willfully.
mjm,
I would suggest asking David Coombs.
I thought the same thing MJM... If they haven't thoroughly interviewed him, there may be some real bombshells out there. Whoever it was, if they wanted witnesses, why weren't they allowed? This reminds me of what went on with Mark Sharpe's request for witnesses. I can't believe they reported before the DCS investigation is over. imo
OK--For those enquiring minds out there...It is official....s coombs is indeed the real thing. Stephen did email me as promised and not only answered questions only few would know but added something I had totally forgotten that had me rolling on the floor laughing. Yep, it is him!!! Stephen, it was great to hear from you! You made my night! Thanks!
I'll say this again. While everyone struggles to come up with the whys and how could he's, SG should go to the DR and be evaluated for side-effects of steroid use over multiple years. We've seen posts presenting medical documentation that a major side effect can be errors in judgment. He might not even know or understand why it's happening but it's clear that it is happening and at an alarming rate for someone you wouldn't expect these types of mistakes from. Aside from really being concerned that something like this is happening to him a result could be that it could provide a graceful way for him to step aside.
OFG said:
I also understand the situation he was in..Mr & Mrs. PW in his office confessing and saying all has been resolved. At the same time people are hounding him everyday about the music, whitmire, seeker sensitive, salary, stealing.
Piglet says:
OFG, you sound like you feel so sorry for SG, that he is a victim of circumstances beyond his control.
All of this was of HIS OWN MAKING. If he doesn't want to be "hounded" about all these things, he needs to quit being so secretive, intimidating, proud, volatile,greedy, self centered and just plain clueless.
He's in WAY over his head and won't admit it, either because he is still too proud, or can't walk away from that embarrassing salary he makes....
mjm,
We're holding the same report you are...the folks who investigated know all the answers.
JU,
What a pathetic comment!!!
Bible wrote:
No. Size is not the problem. On pentecost day 3000 joined the local church in a single day"
My dear sweet brother. Do you think that little gem wasn't plastered onto every free space at my former mega? It was drilled into our heads like a Maoist mantra.
So, I did some checking. Read Acts 17x and the Letters as much. What happened to those 3000+. Did they meet as 3000+ until the Constantinian Church?
Do you think they rented out the Temple Mount from the Pharisees? Perhaps asked Nero if they could use the Collesium? (How do you spell that?)
Ok, a bit sarcastic. But the point is they did not meet as 3000+ continuously.
They dispersed (many were there for the Holiday) and took up the model of the synagogues by having home churches clustered around believers. (This is from outside research)
The Jews built synagogues for every so many people in an areas. The Christians took up this model using homes or whatever. (Sometimes they used the Temples when they could. But they did not seat 3000+)
What happened at Pentecost happened for a reason. Those people went back home with the Good News and started Churches. Mainly in homes. too dangerous to do anything else after a while. Remember Hebrews? The persecution was starting.
I do not hate megas. I just think they are breeding grounds for abuse of authority. The sheep become 'customers'.
Love ya, man.
crushed,
I already figured he wasn't ace...he doesn't write like him. jmo
Who should we get to replace SG?
OFG,
Why was it pathetic exactly? I've searched for reasons why he would do what he has done. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he has been affected in some fashion by his years of self treating the MG disease that he has. I didn't think I was being pathetic. I was trying to show concern and put forth some idea of why this might be happening to SG.
I think Joe can fill the pulpit just fine.
Joe Jernigan..ok
"Who should we get to replace SG?"
Someone who knows and lives by the Word. Even when inconvienent.
Who measures up?
overflowing_____ wrote:
"Who should we get to replace SG?"
Isn't that a bit premature? (It's a rhetorical question. No answer needed.)
blogmiesterwrote: I repeat, if you don't want your comments to/about him dangling out of context, simply don't respond to him/her/it."
It. Too funny. Hey, that clapping link was too cool.
Yes the Wednesday night that SG first came and read his statement the service that Joe lead was really a blessing. It was all prayer. He really showed me something that night. He would get my vote.
OFG said:
When any of you force our pastor to step down...should we all go find another Church, because you cant move on. 300happy&stay, 6000 leave
Piglet says:
Well, you could follow SG wherever he goes. Or you could find another church with leaders that openly diobey the law and scripture,and worship power and the almighty dollar.
P.S. Don't be so sure about those numbers.
I really think we have a few thousand folks who don't care one way or the other.
"Who measures up?"
Nice tactic, Overflowing but I won't fall for it.
Let's turn it around. Are you saying that all pastors out there would ignore scriptural commands when presented with a pedophile minister on staff?
Piglet,
You are very harsh.
New BBC,
It's a very fair question!
Give me a break about ignoring scripture. He said he made a mistake. Let's move on. None of you are perfect. Even AR made mistakes that went against scripture. ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT
I wonder how many former GBC members we have. They might be quite content at BBC - with the worship style, etc.
James 4
11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
Karen,
I didn't notice your comment from earlier until now. I'm new at this blog stuff and I keep having trouble. I don't know why I have to set up a new account each time to get it to work. I tried to e-mail you by clicking on it, but it said I needed login and password or something. I can promise that I have never e-mailed you before although I don't mind at this point if there is a reason. I haven't e-mailed anyone until a few minutes ago. I e-mailed ACE and crushed. I proved to crushed who I am. I thought ace was going to give me something, but he just said that I didn't know him and he didn't even know of me until all this came up. He forwarded me an e-mail to help me understand why people were thinking that I was Ace. Someone sent an e-mail or posted (I'm not exactly sure) that they were my friend and had overheard me recently saying that I was Ace. They said I was sitting on the couches in the fellowship hall. First of all, I am pretty sure that I have not sat on those couches at all in the last few months if ever. Second of all, I am not him and never said that. I may have mentioned things that I have read since I was reading the blog some prior to Christmas when this PW stuff first came out. Therefore, this helps shed light on what is going on here. Whoever this coward or supposed friend is either flat out fabricated this to start trouble or is extremely mistaken in who I am or what they heard. I thought maybe they just mistook me for someone, but I wouldn't expect that from a friend. To add to the insult, they said they didn't approve of what I was doing. I have no clue what that means since I haven't done anything until last night. If they are really my friend then they should have the decency and guts to clear this up from me and apologize, if necessary. I'm really putting myself out there by posting this and I have no reason to be dishonest. Some of you would be surprised how I understand and agree with many points but it's hard to get to that when you have people smearing your name and falesly accusing you before you've even gotten involved. I would admit that I think sickofthelies made some great points about Mrs. PW regardless of the fact that she has misinterpreted DC's response to her which may not have been optimum but was not as she interpreted. By the way, I feel very bad about the way you feel about the encounter from what I can see based on my limited readings of the blog posts. I'm being open, honest, and respectful and I'd like to get the same as Christ would expect us to as a church family and brothers and sisters in Christ.
Overflowing: I think the thing that concerns me is that there appears to be a pattern of "mistakes." It would seem to me that an experienced pastor would be more.....well......experienced.Wise. Careful. Knowledgeable of the Word and it's application to daily life. Of course "All have Sinned and come short of the Glory of God." However, in my opinion, many of these mistakes were unnecessary to the ministry and unwise choices.
overflowing,
With all due respect, once again, I must disagree with you.
Yes, we have all fallen short. However, Sg is held to a higher standard. He was in charge of protecting his sheep.
Did he do that?
Just because I sin does not mean that we have no need to hold our leaders accountable.
OFG
The truth hurts.
I have little patience for this attitude that disrespects the holiness of God because dealing with sin is not warm and fuzzy.
I am deeply ashamed that anyone at our church has this attitude.
"Give me a break about ignoring scripture. He said he made a mistake. Let's move on. None of you are perfect. Even AR made mistakes that went against scripture. ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT"
My last post tonight. I don't want a fight. All we have is unity in the Word. Without that, what do we have? Our opinions? Our emotions? Satan works best there.
That was no mere little mistake. He willfully ignored scripture in a very serious situation and would still be if PW's son had not changed that. We have no other reason to believe anything else. That is willfully ignoring scripture.
SG did not know better over something this serious? Biblical guidelines for a minister? Sodomizing his son? Oh, that is no big deal happened years ago...I have been deceiving you all for 17 years now but no big deal. SG ignored all that.
So, we are left with the Word or what Steve Gaines' thinks. Personally, I want a pastor that adheres to biblical teaching that even I, an ignorant peasant, am clear about. Following scripture is crucial to the purity of the church.
When all is said and done: All the church has is scripture. The Holy Spirit teaches us through scripture. Ignore that and you got nutin' but feel good platitudes and possibly even satan directing paths.
You don't seem to like that truth overflowing. I wish you did.
Offline.
Concerned,
This lends to my point. If somebody has 20 years of experience pastoring multiple churches something has to be wrong for these types of judgment calls to consistently happen. I just lean more toward maybe something medical is happening to him rather than he's just ignorant of a lot of everyday common sense.
Piglet,
James 4: 11,12
11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
Stephen,
That kind of transparency is just what we have been praying for from leadership. Thank you. It is refreshing. The mark of Paul's ministry was "providing things honsestly in the sight of all men" (Rom 12:17). Thanks again. It is so refreshing to have someone communicate!
sickofthelies and concernedsbcer
I want to aplogize to the two of you if my response to OFG has made you stumble in any way.
OFG has been saying the same thing for weeks on end and is very aware of all the issues.
I have just come to the end of my patience. OFG may be a family member of SG or leadership and, if so,I can atleast understand the stubborness in that case.
Otherwise, they are willfully ignorant and I won't run the same old circles with them again and again.
Sorry. :(
Lindon,
That doesnt hold water. He made a mistake. He has a lifetime of preaching God's word. He is still preaching God's word. You think he should be fired I disagree. Where do we go from here. Should we vote.
James 4: 11,12
11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
Sweetie, go read the biblical guidelines for an elder. They are all over the letters. We know in scripture what to do with a reprobate. Paul was very clear. YOu can quote love your neighbor stuff all day, it will not negate the guidelines.
SG allowed a wolf to stay. He enabled the sin. He perpetuated it by silence and ignored scripture. Taht is why you have a blog today.
Follow Christ not men. I am really off now. You are getting desparate in your arguements and are willfully ignoring scriptures you do not like. It is NOT my opinion. I did NOT write the Book.
piglet,
awwww....you didn't make me stumble..I dont' even know what you are referring to. Your posts are always very good..I like the way you think :) Wish I could write like that!!!
Oh Ms.Piggy,
I am just as tired of you.
I am a first time blogger. I have not seen any concerns raised over what seems to me to be a serious error in the investigative report. On page 12 the report indicates that PW and his family had an understanding that PW would never be alone withn his grandchildren. The investigative committee then came to the unbelievable conclusion (underscored and bolded no less) that this is reason to believe that no child at BBC was in harm's way with PW.
I would come to exactly the opposite view, that PW was in a position of trust and that there could have been many occasions where he came in contact with children in this capacity over his tenure at BBC.
If Dennis Hastert had covered up the recent problem with Foley in the US House, as SG did at BBC, the Democrats would have aggressively sought his removal.
Piglet: You are a dear sister in Christ. I appreciate your honesty. (and I also appreciate your levity...laughter always helps during stressful times)
You can count on me. :)
Oops...forgot to say...no stumbling here...not by your fault anyway! :)
Overflowing...
I'd say it might save potential embarrassment to wait until the authorities are finished for anything like a vote. jmo
Lindon,
There is no desperation here. I am not forming some corp, trying to overthrow a church. I'm very aware of the scripture, and I guess we should fire WW JF and if RM comes back fire him too.
We're not talking about merely "making a mistake" here.
What I am having trouble understanding is how someone can say this is just a mistake.
Of course we all make mistakes. We all sin.
Jer 17.9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?
This applies to every single one of us.
SG heard a confession of pedophilia, and not only did not report it (really, no excuse for this), he did not even consult anyone about it. He could have done this without breaking a confidence. He didn't. Why?
Everyone, please, think about it. Why?
Isaiah 30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Last summer, in july or august, during the bible awards ceremony, Paul Williams was on stage with the children,shaking their hands.
My friend was telling me that she has it on tape.
What is appauling is that SG allowed him to just go back about his business after his ' confession'..no concerns for the children at bbc. even allowed him to be around children.
What is his excuse for this????
"That doesnt hold water. He made a mistake. He has a lifetime of preaching God's word. He is still preaching God's word. You think he should be fired I disagree. Where do we go from here. Should we vote. "
Sweetie, you just don't like it. Your man has no wisdom or discernment. If he knew God's Word, he would instinctively have known what to do. Scripture is clear.
Go ahead and vote. The world will love your church. You will win. No doubts here. Pedophiles can come there and no consequences! All they have to say is 'sorry'.
God works with minorities anyway. Many times a single lonely Prophet that has to do crazy things like walk around naked or wear a yoke. Or eat locusts and wear animal skins.
But what does it profit you if you win the whole world and lose your soul?
See, you think this is about winning a vote. It really isn't.
stayfocused...
good blog name... and I totally agree with your post.
overflowing grace said...
Good News!!!Good News!!!
None of this is good news...no matter what side you are on.
************
No need to get upset. My comment was tongue-in-cheek. I am pretty sick of the whole thing, and I am also sorry that much of this could have been avoided in the beginning if "somebody" hadn't tried to be "above-it-all".
Dee
stayfocused said
The investigative committee then came to the unbelievable conclusion (underscored and bolded no less) that this is reason to believe that no child at BBC was in harm's way with PW.
Piglet says:
I AGREE!! There's no way they can KNOW that no child was ever at risk. Nobody followed Paul around 24/7. This was very presumptuous.
Lindon,
Sweetie...your self-righteousness is amazing.
Overflowing- Thank you and keep up the good posts.
Matthew 3:1 ¶ In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
RM?
One last thing (really), this man simply cannot afford any more bad news coming out of Bellevue. He knows that. That means that things will tighten even more.
(Seen it happen...circle the wagons)
Everything has been carefully controlled. Expect more. Even if something else is out there...don't expect to find out unless some brave soul is willing to fall on their sword. That usually does not happen.
lindon- Your posts are truly sick!
It appears to me that if THEIR child wasn't raped by PW, it's all good.
I found this from right before Christmas on the Dec 22nd thread.
said...
http://www.healthsquare.com/newrx/cx1121b.htm
"Prednisone may cause euphoria, insomnia, mood changes, personality changes, psychotic behavior, or severe depression. It may worsen any existing emotional instability."
"Prednisone should also be taken with caution if you have any of the following conditions:
Diverticulitis or other disorder of the intestine
High blood pressure
Kidney disorder
Myasthenia gravis (a muscle-weakness disorder)"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1052090&dopt=Abstract
"During five years of self-medication with Prednisone, a forty-one-year old asthmatic businessman experienced periods of euphoria, psychomotor hyperactivity, and poor judgement; a period of depression and anxiety during temporary steroid withdrawal; and finally, with resumption of Prednisone, episodes of grandiosity and bizarre fugue-like behavior, with adoption of a second identity and culminating in an irrational crime. Steroids were then withdrawn, and the patient resumed his premorbid personality, but had amnesia for much of his previous behavior. The literature on hysterical fugues and corticosteroid-induced mental disturbance is reviewed. The patient's reactions are analyzed in terms of his premorbid neurotic conflicts, the psychological stresses acting upon him, and the effects of Prednisone on his central nervous system."
http://www.medicinenet.com/prednisone/article.htm
"SIDE EFFECTS: Side effects of prednisone and other corticosteroids range from mild annoyances to serious, irreversible damage, and they occur more frequently with higher doses and more prolonged treatment. Side effects include retention of sodium (salt) and fluid, weight gain, high blood pressure, loss of potassium, headache and muscle weakness. Prednisone also causes puffiness of the face (moon face), growth of facial hair, thinning and easy bruising of the skin, impaired wound healing, glaucoma, cataracts, ulcers in the stomach and duodenum, worsening of diabetes, irregular menses, rounding of the upper back ("buffalo hump"), obesity, retardation of growth in children, convulsions, and psychiatric disturbances. The psychiatric disturbances include depression, euphoria, insomnia, mood swings, personality changes, and even psychotic behavior."
I would seriously suggest that SG's irrational behavior is caused by his long term dosage of prednisone since he was diagnosed with Myasthenia gravis in 2000.
He should be medically evaluated and be forced to take a medical retirement. This could be a win-win for everyone.
Seriously, this could be an underlying reason for his irrational behavior!
12:55 AM, December 23, 2006
Sweetie...your self-righteousness is amazing.>>
If only you knew how filthy, stupid, dead and unworthy I am.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4545,
I'm outta here for awhile. There are about 20 of these little people that have internet addictions(especially New BBC) and spend all day on here. I'm not reducing myself any longer to their level.
Linden,
But I love you!!!!
((( Linden)))))
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Overflowing... wrote:
"There is no desperation here. I am not forming some corp, trying to overthrow a church. I'm very aware of the scripture, and I guess we should fire WW JF and if RM comes back fire him too."
25+ says:
I see... more folks to fall on their sword for SG. MD was moved over after the problems over the "dream", WV took the rap for the 25k given to FUMC, there have been lay resignations left and right, now let's line up more staff members to take one for the gipper.
Inspiring... I think A CErtain poster would say: How sad. jmo
That doesnt hold water. He made a mistake. He has a lifetime of preaching God's word. He is still preaching God's word. You think he should be fired I disagree. Where do we go from here. Should we vote.
I post this not just for OAG but for everyone who has an opportunity to read it.
Do you really think a vote matters? Does it really matter if 6 million people back SG and only 1 opposes his actions?
This entire situation will be settled by only one vote and that is the the one held by the head of the Church, the Lord Jesus Christ. It matters not what any of us mortals think, or do, or vote for. God WILL sort this situation out to His glory.
Now that means that SG will ultimately be removed from his position as pastor, or he will remain as pastor of this once great. It may also come to light the God has already turned his back on BBC and spit this church out of his mouth and onto parched ground.
overflowing- I understand and agree.
Folks,
Just thought I would drop in with a thought. i am not commenting on last night's announcement until I have processed it more. I wan to be removed from my initial reaction and make sur ethat my thoughts are not emotion-driven, and as best s I can determine within me, Holy Spirit enfluenced.
What we decide in the near future will have long-term and probably devisive results. Please read and then read again the report and consider your reaction and then what should be done.
Let's not run into the near future blindly.
As
Goodnight Overflowing, have a good evening.
Overflowing said:
"I'm outta here for awhile. There are about 20 of these little people that have internet addictions(especially New BBC) and spend all day on here. I'm not reducing myself any longer to their level."
25+ says:
"these little people" Jesus died for. I'm glad He humbled Himself for us. Paul did write that there were "not many mighty"... I guess that explains why you are upset. jmo
Proverbs 29:2 ¶ When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
If you only knew the damage you are doing for the cause of Christ.
Please stop.
This is not directed to any one person this evening. Just some food for thought...
2 Tim 3.12-13
12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
Overflowing... you just spoke in the most condescending way... do you even understand what you said? If you really want this to stop, then I can help you from the side of those disillusioned with SG... Do you want to know the solution?
Proverbs 27:5 ¶ Open rebuke is better than secret love.
6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
The cause of Christ is this: "..He shall see the travail of His soul and be satisfied."
Proverbs 11:14 ¶ Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.
Proverbs 27:9 ¶ Ointment and perfume rejoice the heart: so doth the sweetness of a man’s friend by hearty counsel.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
4545 and Overflowing Grace - you win. I am out of here. I can see you are fiercely and blindly loyal and will not change your view no matter what. I don't know why I am surprised, even woman who have husbands who beat them up will say "I love him" and "he was just upset" and "he is really a good man." I would leave immediately, but those woman choose to stay. I think I will try to go reason with Benny Hinn's supporters, they might actually not be so blind as to the fleecing he is doing to them. You folks at BBC are really blinded, but you got what you deserved. Israel wanted a king, and they got one. Now BBC members can stay and drink the Kool-aid. Not me. I'm out. Remember, if you don't give the tithe (to SG and BBC) you are "robbing God." Because they are God's representatives, right? Give and give generously. After all, the $500 shoes might last 5 times as long as the $100 shoes. :0) Good-bye to all. (NASS - keep up the good fight!)
I hope that you want to know. It would not painless, but I believe it would glorify God. Well heregoes:
Transparency, real two-way, loving communication face to face with those who are upset. No communications committees, everyone allowed there, make peace with Mark Sharpe, Craig Parker, J. Haywood, etc. Make things right--whatever it takes. Let the light shine on what happened with the "dream" and let the former CFO put everything on the table and make things right. Remove suspicion. Provide things honestly in the sight of all men. Let the buck stop with the pastor... read the list I have posted. It was not posted for the purpose hurting, but like surgery--to cut to heal. Transparency, honesty, a new beginning to rebuild integrity... all jmo-- but all in accord with His Word.
I have been told that PW was seen on the IMAG wearing a smock. PW was seen pulling kids in a wagon. Is this not contact with the kids?
Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
overflowing_____ wrote:
"4545,
"I'm outta here for awhile. There are about 20 of these little people that have internet addictions(especially New BBC) and spend all day on here. I'm not reducing myself any longer to their level."
That's real "Christ-like," isn't it? I'm often amazed at the way so-called Christians sometimes speak to those who are supposed to be their brothers and sisters in the Lord. I've certainly seen examples of this from both "sides," but most of it's coming from a handful of posters on one "side" in particular. There's no place for that here. Period.
You can disagree with someone without hurling insults and making it personal. There are plenty of examples of that here.
Before you post something, think to yourself if you'd say the same words to someone's face. Then if don't think you would, just don't post it.
NBBCOF
Does anyone remember Ron Meroney, the channel 13 news anchor who lived a quiet life and was a known personality who hosted city events and was a recognized figure. His victim was a child and he was not much more than a child at the time of the sexual abuse in another state. He was tracked down in Memphis, extradited to another state and charged with his criminal act. He lost his job, his respectability, and the life he had so carefully crafted here in Memphis. He was near retirment age when he was arrested. His victim, a relative who lived in another state, was still suffering after all the years while Mr. Meroney was living the good life here.
This is a recent media event in Memphis, did anyone in leadership not watch the news? Could they have not gotten a "clue" about the far reaching arm of a pedophile and the long term damage it does to a child?
It does not matter how long ago it happened, the damage is done and there are consequences.
Steve Gaines claims he did not just fall off a cabbage truck yesterday - so why did he not act accordingly.
When I called the church a few weeks back, I wanted to know why Steve Gaines has NEVER (not even to this day) said that he has prayed over ANY of the decisions he has made. I was promptly hung up on by one of the ladies in his office. To this day I have no response, and I left my name - the lady also knew who I was (as a personal aquaintance).
For that reason alone, he has disqualified himself as a pastor, for what pastor, when faced with the blatant evidence and full confessions, would not pray over his decision, seek the answer in SCRIPTURE and wait upon the Lord to guide him if he did not know what to do? Do you not see that God was NEVER in this picture!!! He was neither sought nor consulted.
Now WHY would Steve Gaines claim that he handled the situation badly if he had prayed over it. Why not say that he sought the Lord's guidance and this is what he was led to do instead of saying that he made another "mistake"???
Folks, we have a pastor who slumbers and sleeps, but is void of discernment, prayer and the knowledge the Lord would give any of us who sought it. He is shooting from the hip. He has well passed over the point of no return - he needs to go and go soon.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
nbtt, when did he do this?
nbtt wrote:
"I have been told that PW was seen on the IMAG wearing a smock. PW was seen pulling kids in a wagon. Is this not contact with the kids?"
Bet you won't see it again! That video probably got "processed" in Shredder's shredder -- along with a lot of other things.
nbtt, when did he do this?
Did anyone notice that the personel commitee report was written as a motion and I may have fallen asleep between heart-groans, but I do not recall any parlemantary procedure such as a VOTE by the membership to accept the report.
Dear God in heaven, please, please, give them ears to hear.
NASS-
You have mail.
Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Just for accuracy's sake, I noticed a post earlier and I thought I might correct the info.... PW's son is 30 or 31 now, not 27 or 28. I know it is just a few years, but I just thought I would clarify that.
Dear God in heaven, please, please, give them ears to hear.
Amen!
I did not see this but I belileve it was in the past year or so. Someone here may have more information. I do know that some who post here told me that. If you have any information please let the forum know. Thanks
John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." John 14:1-4
Read the Personnel commitee report. It is in the first paragraph.
John 17:17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
mo scratch- Just more hate and attacks and lies. And you point your finger at others?
All of grace,
Thank you for posting that. Sometimes we need to remember that our time here on this earth is just for a short time. We will spend eternity in heaven with our father. I can hardly wait!!!
I want to see Jesus first, and then I want to go and find Dr. R.!!!! :)
"If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. John 14:15-17
grace to you all
Alan,
WHAT is in the personnel report?
SOTL- You may find it hard to find AR. I have it from reliable sources that shortly after Buck Jones (former president of LWF) got to Heaven he began to arrange a speaking tour for Dr R that won't be over for quite some time.
mom4
Your post brought back some memories about the Meroney case. I looked up some and posted them below. Some of the quotes remind me of the posts I have seen here.
From the Court TV Crime Library:
Ron is a licensed minister and is extremely involved in local charitable organizations including Big Brothers/Big Sisters, senior citizen homes, The Kidney Foundation, and United Cerebral Palsy."
From wreg.com
An adult woman in Meroney's home state of Maryland says he raped her as a child back in 1974.
In (her) letter, the accuser tells Governor Bredesen that Meroney was indicted on December 19th, 2005. She writes, "Please do what you can to expedite his extradition and to protect the children of Memphis." She also says, "this man has many victims, including my five brothers and sisters."
NewsChannel 3 also spoke to one of Meroney's supporters Wednesday. Reverend John Beaumont used to work with Meroney at Fox 13, and is now a minister in West Memphis. Beaumont describes Meroney as a devout Christian, who lived out his faith. Beaumont is shocked by the allegations. "He always seemed to carry himself in a manner that was really respectable," says Beaumont.
From memphisflyer.com
WMCTV.com is reporting that Ron Meroney, the former Fox-13 newscaster, pled guilty in a Maryland courtroom this morning to charges that he raped a minor in 1974.
Meroney's plea deal includes a 15-year sentence, with all but 18 months suspended, and five years probation. During those 18 months, Meroney will serve in-home detention, monitored by an electronic device.
Meroney will also be forced to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. His guilty plea will prevent him from serving any time in jail.
With the patterns that constatntly are reported about child molesters, how in the world could anyone allow an admitted one to remain on staff?
Like I posted earlier. This situation is well in God's hands. He will handle it to his glory, regardless of how people would vote.
SOTL
After much discussion and prayer, the Personnel Committee moves to approve and accept the Investigative Team Report as presented to the Committee on January 20, along with the recommendations that the Investigative Team submitted.
This is what I was referring to.
"The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." John 10:3-5
It seems that BBC does not have to have business meetings to do whaever they want. They just say it and it is done. Too bad if you don't agree. JMO
WaY to go AOG!!!!
"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me--just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." John 10:14-16
AOG:
What makes the stranger a stranger
A deceiving spirit..a false teacher...a cloud without rain
"In this world you will have trouble; but take heart--I have overcome the world."
Blessings all..sleep the sleep of the righteous.
AOG;
So then, those that follow the stranger are decieved or deluded? Would this be true in all cases?
the key is here:
"Fear not for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine."
He reveals himself to his sheep.
offline
James 3:13-18
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness and wisdom.
But if you have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
This wisdom decendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hipocrisy.
And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
If the above scriptures had been followed I don't believe we would be where we are today.
Excerpt from the BBC pastor's handbook, circa June 2006:
Rule 1: You can't be a deacon or minister if you smoke cigarettes, drink beer, gamble, have ever been divorced or are married to a woman who has ever been divorced.
Rule 2: You can no longer serve as a deacon if you dare to question the pastor's judgment or integrity on any matter.
Rule 3: If you commit egregious, immoral acts and keep them hidden for many years. . .well, we don't know what to do - that's uncharted waters.
What I am gathering from reading the blog, watching the news, reading the newspaper and listening to Mike Fleming is that few, if any people had a material change in opinion about SG as a result of the report. Those who were concerned about him before Sunday still are. Those who fully support him still do.
Does anyone think otherwise? Is there anybody out there who switched "sides" as a result of Sunday night's report? Just curious.
There are active deacons right now who are not making it a secret that they question SG and the leadership and they are not being removed. So it is unfair to say that all the deacons that question the leadership are not allowed to remain deacons.
be patient
This is good to hear.
But what are they doing about it? Mark wasn't removed until he asked to address the deacons with his concerns.
Just wondering.
whatnext wrote:
"Excerpt from the BBC pastor's handbook, circa June 2006... "
Heh heh. For a second there you had me going! I thought you were serious. Uh... you weren't, were you?
I don't honestly know, I just know there are approx. 10-15 deacons who I have heard are either concerned or on the fence about it all. They are praying and seeking God's guidance. I do know that.
don't take that to the bank, but I heard it from a reliable source.
be patient
Thanks for your response.
I can hit the sack now.
Goodnight Be Patient.
Goodnight to you, too, NASS. :)
'Night, little pink pig!
NASS
AND WITH THAT, CONSIDER THIS THREAD KNOTTED AND ENDED. PLEASE MOVE UP!
Thank you,
NBBCOF
Bepatient said...
I don't honestly know, I just know there are approx. 10-15 deacons who I have heard are either concerned or on the fence about it all. They are praying and seeking God's guidance. I do know that.
don't take that to the bank, but I heard it from a reliable source.
12:30 AM, January 30, 2007
I think there are 15-20 deacons who are like your husband, They strongly support the pastor.
I've seen a list of at least 60 known to have serious concerns about the leadership. The rest are somewhere in the middle.
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