Please continue your discussions here.
I was shocked to learn this morning that this little corner of Blogland is being blogged about all over.
Thanks to "bin wonderin" for that information.
Someone with the screen name "closetotheinnercircle" posted this series of comments this week raising some insightful questions and making some interesting predictions. Now, this person doesn't have the track record of "blessmewiththetruth" and "uturn" (remember them?), but if anyone has any knowledge of any of the things this person posted, the floor is yours.
This is not an attempt to spread rumors, and while it may have been "close's" intent to do just that, it is not my intent here. Please limit discussion of the issues listed to facts or at least make it clear if you're only speculating about something. In other words, please refrain from running amok.
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402 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 402 of 402flyonthewall,
Thanks for sharing.
The term "lurker" is a blog term that I am not particularly fond of either. It conveys the idea of a peeping tom every time I see it. However, it is easier to type than “non-posting observers.” J Perhaps you and I could coin a different term to convey the same meaning that would not seem so rude.
It is very difficult to be part of the remnant these days, especially if you chose to confront controversial issues head on. I am aware that the opinions that I share can be extremely objectionable to people and am made extremely aware of that after I have posted them. However, I try to maintain a level of civility in explaining my positions and hope that most people can at least respect that and the fact that I have made myself known.
Your ideas on forgiveness were exceptionally insightful. It would probably surprise you how many people would actually support the idea of emptying the prisons out, not of those that were converted and repentant, but those that were really sorry.
I am not sure that I understand your comment on the attendance technology. I assume that you are referring to the surveillance equipment. I was not aware that it was used to track attendance, but can see how it very well could be. I also, have to assume that you were referring to the security guards informing Jim Haywood that he could not tape the service and needed to remove his equipment. If there was something else that I missed, I would be interested to know about it.
In answer to your final question, no I don’t believe that the leadership understands at all. They have not even made an attempt to understand and are hoping that if they ignore the perceived problem (dissenters) that the dissenters will leave and the problems will go away. The reality is that if the dissenters were gone, then the real problems would begin. They would then be left totally to their own devices and have already shown a tendency to compromise integrity when necessary to accomplish goals.
If you don’t feel like openly sharing but have some input then please e-mail me. It helps tremendously to view things from different perspectives. Also, most of the e-mail that I have received has helped to confirm that I am not alone in my views.
Thanks again for sharing your views.
Here are a few important changes that would help during these days of crisis in leadership:
I. Pastoral Accountability to the Congregation:
1. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... and any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!
2. The giving records of the membership and the ministers on staff at Bellevue should never be for pastoral review in any shape, form, or fashion.
3. No church credit cards.
4. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.
5. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. Free tickets for the host and wife are fine but not for anybody else.
6. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.
7. Removal from office of ministers guilty of sexual immorality with immediate coordination with the appropriate authorities if any laws have been broken by a minister (no matter how long ago), including thorough investigation of the matter when the minister’s conduct may have affected other church members or their children.
II. Congregational Church governance:
Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church has a set of "lay-elders," a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The rest of the congregation needs to be awakened.
1. Those who are part of this lay-elder "power block" need to step down from positions of influence for a long time. Bellevue needs “new blood” in these key positions.
2. There needs to be the signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services for the church. These people should not be allowed to serve on committees that review bids for their services.
3. Congregational nomination of and election of all of the Board of Directors as called for in the 1929 bylaws.
4. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. **The current bylaws mention "monthly" business meetings! When were they changed??
5. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.
6. A transparent committee selection process.
7. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.
8. Thorough communication with the Congregation for ANY capital project well in advance of any vote. Building prayer buildings or any other type of building should be brought through proper channels to the congregation for prayerful consideration--not coerced "rubber stamping." [By the way, Dr. Rogers taught us quite a bit about prayer. As a matter of fact, I believe all of the current buildings ARE prayer buildings already. He and Dr. Whitmire also taught us quite a bit about worship also... but that's another topic].
9. Bellevue needs to reject Warrenism fully and finally.
10. Higher standards should be put in place for the hiring of "ministers." Seminary training should be considered a normal prerequisite.
III. Treatment of ministers on staff at BBC and members:
1. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members.
2. The end of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members; and the end of signing non-disclosure statements. All ministers who have been pressured or asked to sign such non-disclosure statements should be released from them in writing by BBC! Former staff should be allowed to address the congregation and/or the deacon body either in writing or in person without any fear of reprisal regarding their exit from BBC. Gaines has confessed to mishandling Dr. Whimire's exit... The congregation now needs to hear from Dr. Whimire--and several others--by letter or in person IN THEIR OWN WORDS. The congregation needs to know how their leadership has treated and is treating ministers who leave the service of our Lord through BBC.
3. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.
All in my opinion as usual.
We are to be “providing things honestly in the sight of all men” (Rom. 12:17). Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."
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