From the original BBC Open Forum:
YouTube has the video if you missed it.
Pastor Gaines' response from the information meeting is quite long and will be posted in the comments.
If you wish to offer an opinion please remember that regardless of your point of view, you can be polite and respectful towards others.
posted by BBC Open Forum at 6:17 AM on Oct 17 2006
We were told by Brother Steve to watch the whole video so as to hear his remarks in context. So judge for yourself. Entitled Steve Gaines Resignation Service at Gardendale First Baptist Church, July 10, 2005 PM, copies are available in the Bellevue Library.
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2 comments:
BBC Open Forum said...
From the information meeting 9-24-06
Steve Gaines:
"Now, the Gardendale resignation video. This is going to be the most emotional one. They've taken a 3-minute statement out of a 50-minute resignation. I left here, I think it was July 10th - was that the date? - and we went home, we drove home. We're home now, but we drove what was home then. We got to Gardendale at 5 'til 6. The service started at 6. And when we walked in the sanctuary, the place was packed. My girls couldn't even walk in. They turned around and fell back into my arms and Donna's arms and cried knowing what we were about to do. And when I walked in there, they were worshipping God, and they knew what was coming. And when I - finally it was my turn, Mark Harris handed it over to me - he's our minister of education. And I walked up there and somebody just blurted out, 'We love you Brother Steve.' And they all stood up like you've done. And I cried and they cried. In the middle of that tape, the 3 minutes they've got in there, I was tired; I was bone tired. And I was hurting - my spirit was raw. Now, you've gotta understand what I'm about to say. I didn't want to leave Gardendale Alabama - not because I didn't want to come to Bellevue - I didn't want to go anywhere. I didn't want to come to Bellevue, because I didn't want to leave Gardendale. I didn't want to leave what God was doing. For 14 years I had prayed over that place - for 14 years, I had led people to Jesus - for 14 years I had done funerals, weddings - for 14 years I had poured my life into that place. Now, when I was sick and couldn't even tie my shoes, they kept me as their pastor. And when I couldn't even comb my hair, my wife had to comb my hair for me, they kept me as their pastor. And I did everything I could - even telling them I'm gonna stay with you - I'm not gonna go any place. And I meant it with all of my heart. And every time I would turn around - I withdrew my name - not that the committee offered me this job and I said no to it - I withdrew my name from the process. I called twice - Chuck says 3 times - several times. I did everything I could to stay in Gardendale. And in this video - and you've gotta understand - I went there when I was 33 years old - and I was 47 when I left. These people we loved each other, and you know what we're gonna love each other the same way, and we're getting there. It just takes time. {applause} I thought I loved Donna after the first year - you remember your 1st year anniversary? Oh, I love you. I'm gonna tell you something, brother, after 26 years, I'd die for her. {applause} What I said to them was - I didn't memorize it - I'm like Harry, I don't like to go to the website. I didn't really look at what they had on there. It said something about 'Didn't I tick you guys off?' Now, you gotta remember, we're in Alabama, ok? Not in cultured Tennessee - we're in Alabama. {laughter} I asked them - I did... I did everything I could to tell them you know what I thought was right with Gardendale - and what I... and I said what I thought was wrong with Bellevue. I wasn't saying that I thought that Bellevue was bad or anything like that. They lifted that totally out of context. You know what? You can take 3 minutes out of just about any sermon or just about anything you want and miss the whole point of the whole sermon. Listen to me, if I didn't have any respect for this church, I would've never come here to try to be your pastor. I loved Dr. Rogers. There is nobody - listen I never had a better friend on this earth than Dr. Adrian Rogers, and if anybody's implying that I've ever demeaned this church or his ministry or anything else - that is simply not true. I want to encourage you - like Chuck said - if you want to watch it, don't watch the little 3-minute thing on the website. You go watch the whole 50-minute thing, and you see my heart and see that I'm simply trying to pour out my heart to my people to try to affirm them. They were crying. I was crying. It was a tough night. But I want to tell you, I have never and never will do anything to demean this church or to put this church down. I love this church. I'm gonna give the rest of my life in service to the Lord through this church. And anything I said in that video had nothing to do with me trying to degrade this church in any way. So I want you to know that." {applause}
001 6:30 AM, October 17, 2006
Bell22 said...
Bro. Steve should have stayed at Gardendale. He left his heart and common sense there, he is a good speaker but alot of his changes is not what we needed. Some of is the pulpit comm. fault, how many times do you go after a man when he keeps saying no. WHY weren't we told more about how he felt. I feel sorry for both our church and him. This was not a good match for either of us.
002 8:03 AM, October 17, 2006
Rick said...
Why don't you post some positive items on here for folks to comment on. How about how many folks have been saved since Bro. Steve has taken over at BBC? Don't lose sight of what BBC is around for.
003 8:30 AM, October 17, 2006
Bellevue Friend said...
Friends,
I am growing increasingly weary of the multiple attacks against your new Pastor. He has apologised for the fence incident...how many times does he have to say I am sorry?
The expense to take several couples out to eat, is a part of serving a church of your size...and assuridly it was a budgeted amount ( according to your own finance person) No inpropriety none!
Why the desire to handcuff your new Pastor who has stepped into the posistion previously held for 32 years by Dr.Rogers?
Dr. Rogers was often away on Wednedays not always...and I must say that I do believe your new Pastor should be in attendance when he is not away, representing or encouraging another Church or seminary as a guest speaker.
I am confident that your new Pastor is not abusing predetermined time away granted to the Senior Pastor of Bellevue!
I have to say that the deacons who responded in a hateful manner should be ashamed....and why on earth would you want those mean spirited men in Leadership!
I don't believe they speak for Dr. Gaines, or the Church...and certainly would be quickly rebuked by Dr. Rogers if he were there!
However Folks, some of you ( Not All) are eating your Pastor alive! ....acting more like goats than sheep, critizing, defaming, belittling etc!
Dr. Rogers always spoke so very highly of the Saints of Bellevue,
I am very concerned that if this doesn't come to a quick resalution your church will be seen as anything but loving...and what Pastor would want to serve a people that refuse to let him be human.
I don't believe your Pastor should be making more than Dr. Rogers....but honestly after reading some of your criticisms a a million a year wouldn't be enough to have to put up with such disdain and disrespect!
Should your Pastor be held to a high standard...absolutely!
In the process show respect for the office of Pastor...he is not Gaines....
He is Dr. Steve Gaines, Senior Pastor of the Bellevue Baptist Church of Memphis!
Your former Pastor Dr. Rogers in his book "Standing for light and Truth" on page 44 wrote:
There are often two classes of people in the church: Those who complain and those who know how to pray. The people murmured against Moses, but Moses went to the Lord!
Lets all do the same!
Ephesians 4: 29-32
004 9:01 AM, October 17, 2006
Jack Kennington said...
Rick,
Thank you I agree 110%, so here are some positive comments about Bro. Steve. As a former member of five years at First Gardendale and now a minister called under Steve's ministry my family and I grew spiritually. To me the two signs of a healthy church are baptisms and the number of people who are called out to do missions and vocational ministry. Under Bro. Steve both of these were evident and I understand BBC is growing significantly in Sunday School and worship this year. The church led the state in Baptisms almost every year the last ten years of his ministry. The man has a walk with God that is intense and intimate. His precious wife Donna and children add much to his ministry. He always made time to speak to my kids and even gave my son a book and a coke once when we were in his office and ran into him on a road trip. He took the time with me to allow me to ask questions since he knew of my ministry desire. I am shocked that any of the so called members from Gardendale would write negative things about him on this blog. If Bro. Steve was good enough for Dr. and Mrs. Rogers to prompt them to sense he was God’s man for BBC plus that of the search team I do not believe all of those people missed God. He will never be Dr. Rogers nor will he try to be and I know he has communicated that to the church but he will be the best Steve he can be. He will preach his heart out and over time will win your respect just like he did mine and thousands of others at GFBC. I give him much credit for my call and convictions in ministry. Pray for him, love him, and give him some time to be all the Lord wants him to be. He will make some mistakes but they will be of the head not of the heart. Praying for the Gaines family and the church that unity and healing will occur so that you may get about doing the fathers business as you have done for many years. Time is short we must redeem it and not let the devil steal what the Lord has intended for His people.
Prayerfully,
Jack Kennington
005 9:10 AM, October 17, 2006
BBC Open Forum said...
Why don't you post some positive items on here for folks to comment on. How about how many folks have been saved since Bro. Steve has taken over at BBC? Don't lose sight of what BBC is around for.
Rick -
That is a good idea. Do you have a link to some stats or can you post the ones you would like to talk about?
I liked the 4 questions you posted over at The Bratton Report. Would like to see those discussed fully but I don't want to steal stuff from Mike's blog. It was posted there so I kinda felt like it was stealing to post those issues over here.
006 9:16 AM, October 17, 2006
pbmax said...
In reference to churches, Dr. Rogers used to say, "There is nothing that is all honey and no bees."
It appears that the way to more honey and less bees is for humble attitudes to prevail amongst people on both sides.
The two deacons who have responded to the Gremillions' letter humbly and candidly are showing Bellevue the way of truth and light.
How will men know you are His disciples? If you love one another.
007 10:43 AM, October 17, 2006
ilovebbc said...
Does anyone have an email address or mailing address for Mr. Haywood of savingbellevue.com? I'm not sure he receives/replies to emails sent to the email address at the bottom of his web site.
008 12:07 PM, October 17, 2006
notastepfordsheep said...
> Does anyone have an email address or mailing address for Mr. Haywood of savingbellevue.com? I'm not sure he receives/replies to emails sent to the email address at the bottom of his web site.
He does receive e-mail sent to that address. He doesn't reply to every message, but he does receive them. He's replied to me several times. Keep trying.
009 12:27 PM, October 17, 2006
focus said...
You can say what you want, Steve Gaines was wrong for climbing the fence but that is not the problem. He needs to address the situation and stop putting a band aid on it.
010 5:28 PM, October 17, 2006
Eccl.7:25 said...
October 14 my devotion from
Free to Forgive..Minrith, Meier
But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be abased, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. Matt. 23:12
I would never join a local church whose pastor is not accountable to a board of deacons or elders in that church. Even a good man will eventually fall without accountability.
You have great dignity and should not allow yourself to be victimized or controlled in any way by a religous leader. God called them to humbly serve you the way Jesus served His disciples.
That was my devotion from the book I mentioned above.I wish I had confidence that the deacons were not being controlled. It just appears that they are doing what they are told just like the bible fellowship teachers.
God Bless All... let's stay on our knees
011 7:15 PM, October 17, 2006
notastepfordsheep said...
To date I have not commented on this topic. As we were urged to do, I wanted to watch the entire video, not just the 3-minute clip on YouTube. All the library's copies have been checked out, but I went by there today and someone had just returned a copy. I'll be watching that tonight and will hopefully have a stronger opinion afterwards.
012 2:24 PM, October 19, 2006
Truth Hunter said...
NSS,
On the video did he mention his first action would be to erect those giant billboards with his face on them?
Was anyone else bothered by the billboards?
What about his introduction at the Grizzlies games?
What do you think of the shrine erected in his honor outside the sanctuary on the west side?
Are these things a sign of an unchecked ego? Or am I seeing somthing that isn't there?
Those billboards bothered me from the moment I saw them, but I never expressed it to a soul. I thought perhaps they were the idea of someone else. A year later, I still don't know what to believe.
I truly want to believe the best about our pastor. However, the arrogance I have seen on display throughout this crisis tends to validate my initial concerns.
Dr. Gaines, who are you? I want to know.
013 9:08 AM, October 20, 2006
notastepfordsheep said...
I think we've all heard what was said in the 9/24 "information meeting" or at least read the transcript. Now, hot off the presses for your consideration is what Dr. Gaines said to a crowd at a revival meeting in Union City the evening following that meeting. The audio is on the sb.com site, and the first thing about it that struck me was that it was being played at a slightly faster than live speed making his voice sound higher pitched and his delivery faster and more clipped than it usually is. Dr. Gaines sounds like Bill Clinton (in more ways than just his voice as you'll hear) on that tape. I sincerely hope the tape speed wasn't purposely increased.
Having said that, here's a word-for-word transcript of Dr. Gaines describing to that congregation what the 9/24 "information meeting" at Bellevue was about. The first three quotes came right before the "big one."
"'We're gonna talk about everything tonight.'"
"'Everything is okay.'"
"'Our staff is united, all of our committees are united, our deacons are united, and the vast majority of our church is united.'"
"We sat everybody down, said 'This is not a business meeting. It's an information meeting.' What that meant is we're gonna talk. Heh heh. But you're not. Heh heh heh heh. {audience laughs} Amen, huh? Ha ha. I didn't just fall off the cabbage truck. Amen. I'm not... ha ha. I've been around this for a long time. Amen." {audience laughs}
Folks, I have tried my level best to remain objective and fair to all sides, but the more I hear from his mouth the more I wonder about the heights of this man's arrogance! Is there no limit to it? I am shocked, saddened, and appalled that he would have the audacity to stand before the congregation of a sister church and say these things.
Y'all take it from there, guys. I'm spent.
014 11:09 AM, October 20, 2006
ilovebbc said...
Not a stepford sheep,
All he meant was that on that Sunday night he wanted himself and the others to have a chance to speak w/o interruption. So it was an informational meeting - not a business meeting. The savingbellvue.com, mark sharpe supporters, etc. have this forum and the website to present their views. Look through these forums. People on both sides are sometimes being very rude to those with opposing views. If the meeting that night had been open for all to speak, considering how some have been behaving, it might have just turned into a shouting match. Perhaps the time will come when there will be a business meeting and the floor will be opened for discussion but they chose not to do it that way that night.
015 11:35 AM, October 20, 2006
Lwood said...
I left my thought about the audio on the other forum but I would like to ask ilovebbc.....Why would a pastor go to another church and as he has accused the truth seekers of doing AIR THE CHURCHES DIRTY LAUNDRY before them... It is not their ballgame.... and yes as he Dr. Gaines stated I did feel like I was at a ballgame instead of at a church service....
016 12:01 PM, October 20, 2006
Comment Deleted
This post has been removed by the author.
017 12:37 PM, October 20, 2006
cjesusnme said...
NASS,
The recording is speed up (due to poor recording I think) on the original one from Second Baptist in UC. I've heard it, before it made it's way to the SB.com website and it sounds the same to me. It was not done by the SB.com website. I also think when he is nervous, like many of us, he talks a bit faster too and does that goofy laugh. Good transcription for those who can't hear it!! I do agree with your comments though and isn't it bizarre how he almost sounded as if he was programming them "What to think", as he seems to have done here? Thoughts?
018 1:00 PM, October 20, 2006
notastepfordsheep said...
ilovebbc wrote: "All he meant was that on that Sunday night he wanted himself and the others to have a chance to speak w/o interruption."
I think we can each form our own opinion of what he meant. In an orderly business meeting which follows Robert's Rules of Order, he would have had ample opportunity to speak without interruption. This is just another example of his attempting to avoid accountability.
"The savingbellvue.com, mark sharpe supporters, etc. have this forum and the website to present their views."
And they wouldn't need this forum and the website had Steve Gaines not refused to meet with Mark Sharpe and the others and address their concerns privately. Things should never have gotten this far, but I think more and more people are beginning to see just what we're dealing with here -- an arrogant man who, as someone said, would rather "be right than do right." Sad.
019 1:29 PM, October 20, 2006
Bell22 said...
Didn't I tick you guys off? Yes Yes you did ,the Union City thing did it.
020 5:47 PM, October 20, 2006
ilovebbc said...
lwood asked me,
"Why would a pastor go to another church and as he has accused the truth seekers of doing AIR THE CHURCHES DIRTY LAUNDRY before them... It is not their ballgame."
I don't have the answer. What I've been trying to say in other posts is that instead of getting on these forums and asking our questions since none of us have the answers, why don't we submit our questions to the Deacon Committee on the forms provided at the ERC instead of posting them on these forums? If we don't like the answers we receive or don't like the work done by that committee once it has completed its work, then come back to these forums if necessary to discuss further action?
021 7:08 AM, October 21, 2006
ilovebbc said...
The Commercial Appeal is read by people all over west Tennessee. Channel 5 tv news is watched by people all over west Tenneesee. Perhaps Brother Steve wasn't going to mention Bellevue's problems in Union City until the pastor of that church or some of its members asked him about it and he recognized most people in their church were already aware of Bellevue's problems. I don't know but again - - -before attempting to "stir up" our entire congregation, I wonder if Mr. Haywood attempted to ask Brother Steve why he mentioned Bellevue's problems in Union City. If he did ask him, he should have posted his response along with his audio remarks.
022 7:31 AM, October 21, 2006
cjesusnme said...
Ilovebbc:
Why is it an issue of Mr. Haywood? Did you know that anyone can get those CD's? Steve said it, not Mr. Haywood. And while I agree that perhaps Steve didn't have a choice in talking about it, it's not that he said it, it's WHAT he said. He tried to convince Second Baptist that he had 100% backing from the church and that there was only 3 or 4 people causing a problem. Well, I personally know people of that church and have heard their side and they knew that it was untrue as well! We don't have to accuse Mr. Haywood of spreading rumors and making a bad name for Steve, he is doing a fine job of that by himself. And beside, people can choose whether to read the paper, watch the news, or visit these blog sites, but those people at Second Baptist didn't have a choice. Steve had a captive audience and had to tell his side. With that being said, there is a difference!
023 8:28 AM, October 21, 2006
notastepfordsheep said...
I've watched the entire tape now, and here are some excerpts:
*** In early December 2004, an article in the Commercial Appeal about the retirement of Dr. Rogers mentioned Steve Gaines as a possible replacement. He called the head of the search committee, Chuck Taylor, who told him that out of 170 candidates they'd narrowed the list down to five and that he was on the short list. He said he told Chuck Taylor to just take his name off the list. "Now your list is four," he reportedly said.
*** The following Sunday he told the Gardendale congregation he'd told Bellevue to remove his name from consideration, that "God wants me to die an old man here in Gardendale," and that he would stand by them in moving to their new property. He said he'd "died to the issue of ever going to Bellevue."
"We did everything we could not to leave."
*** He'd been asked back in the fall, before he asked to be taken off the list, to speak at Dr. Rogers' retirement service on March 4th. Two or three days before, Chuck Taylor called him and asked if he'd be willing to meet with the search committee "since you're going to be here anyway."
Gaines said, "I really don't want to. But we'll talk to you."
He said of that meeting: "The meeting was okay, but it was nothing electric. Donna and I sensed no call whatsoever at that time to talk any further with them."
*** Chuck Taylor called them back for a second meeting, and he said, "Let us pray about it."
*** On Easter, Dr. Gaines called the search committee and related the conversation like this: "I said, 'Look, just take our name off the list.' That was the second time. 'I don't want to fool with it. I really don't want to do this.' In my mind I was saying, 'I wish you'd just go away and let us do what we need to do.' I thought surely that was the end of it."
*** He said pastor friends began calling and encouraging him to "be open" about going to Bellevue. He asked if any of them had spoken with Adrian Rogers, and all said no.
*** While at a meeting in San Diego 7 or 8 more pastor friends came up to him and said, "God told me you should be open about going to Bellevue." All denied talking with Dr. Rogers.
*** While visiting his in-laws in Memphis, he was sitting on the grounds of Bellevue early one morning reading his Bible when he read the passage from the 6th chapter of Judges -- "Go in the strength that you have. Am I not sending you to rescue the Israelites from the Midianites?" He said the Lord told him He wanted him "to finish his ministry in this place."
*** And then there's the famous 3-minute clip. He'd flown to Memphis for "one last meeting" sometime around late May. Here's what he said:
"One thing about Gideon. He put out a fleece. So I put out a fleece. I said, 'Lord, I'm gonna be so hardnosed on this meeting, and I'm gonna tell them everything I don't like about their church, and I'm gonna tick 'em off so bad... heh heh... that they won't want me.' It wasn't exactly like that, but it was close. And I told 'em everything I thought they'd have to change, everything that we do right that they do wrong... I mean that. I came back and told Donna, I said, 'No way on God's green earth they'll want me now.'
"Got a call back, and they said, 'We have one more question we want to ask you, but we want to ask you in person.' I said, 'What are you talking about?' They said, 'Well, we want to ask you to be our pastor.' I said, 'Well, I thought... didn't I tick you guys off?' They said, 'No... in fact two guys were wondering if you were going to be a strong enough leader, and we all figured, he's strong.' Heh heh. So they... what I thought was gonna mess 'em up actually kept the process going."
*** I noticed in a different thread someone commented about Dr. Gaines comparing himself to Moses. In this tape, not only does he compare himself to Moses (not getting to lead the Israelites into the promised land), he compared himself to David not getting to build the temple.
*** He was complimenting his wife on how much time she put into preparing for the Bible studies she led. "If I studied for my sermons like she studies, this church would be running 7000."
*** Then he talked about the "numbers" since he came to Gardendale. "More than 3000 saved and baptized." The budget went from $2 million to $9 million. The church "doubled in size."
So that was the whole tape. Did taking the 3-minute clip out of context make any difference in its significance? In my opinion, no.
A couple of thoughts came to mind though.
1. Although he said he "did everything we could not to leave (Gardendale)," he still hopped on a plane for Memphis when they called him for meetings. I'm not questioning whether he felt called by God to do that. Just that he didn't seem to be doing "everything" not to come here.
2. Did all 170 candidates submit applications and resumes? If the CA article in early December was the first time he'd heard he was being considered for the job, then that implies he didn't apply for it. Again, I'm not saying he's being untruthful. It just seems odd that the search committee could narrow the list down to five when at least one of them didn't even know he was being considered.
What I did see was a man who seemed genuinely sad to be leaving the church and people he'd pastored for 14 years. He seemed much more humble than I've ever seen him here. Maybe it was the lack of a tie. In just his dark suit and white dress shirt I couldn't help but be reminded of a courtroom setting where they make the defendant remove anything that could be used to harm himself. (It wasn't apparent whether he was wearing shoelaces or not.) He just looked so... sad.
024 4:00 PM, October 22, 2006
bkjrm said...
I, too, saw the entire DVD of the Gardendale service. I'd like to add a couple of observations of my own.
I don't understand why, if SG told Chuck Taylor he wanted to be taken off the short list why #1 Chuck didn't just take him at his word and move on and #2 why SG agreed to ANY meetings after he CLEARLY said he didn't want to be cosidered---- "Let your yeas be yeas and you nays be nays."
Concerning the pastor friends that God told to tell SG what His will was for SG----it has been my experience that when I am seeking God's will for my life, He is faithful to tell ME not others what He wants me to do. Perhaps others might confirm what He's asking me to do----but I would be uncomfortable thinking God would tell others something different from what He tells me.
The only circumstance I could think of that God speaks through others is if I was trying to pray through a decision and called together Godly counsel to help me. But randomly? Why would God do that?
Once again, SG's explanation seems contrived to me.
025 7:05 PM, October 22, 2006
Truth Hunter said...
When Dr. Gaines was first called to our church, I heard it said that for ten years it was an open secret within pastor circles that he would succeed Dr. Rogers. The implication was that Dr. Rogers picked him long ago and let Chuck Taylor know who he wanted.
A prominent deacon's wife told me she was certain the new pastor would be Dr. Gaines. This conversation happened months before he was introduced to the church.
Also, for several years many people seemed to believe Jamie Parker would be coming back to Bellevue as our minister of music.
All of those things may have been people talking about their hunches as fact. I wish I knew the truth about how the committee operated. Without a thorough investigation of each name submitted, how did they narrow their list to five names?
How exactly does a "covenant relationship" between a preacher and a minister of music work?
026 10:12 PM, October 22, 2006
justamember said...
I saw the DVD as well. I was very troubled by it. He was proud of the fact that he was leaving Gardendale only "9 million dollars" in debt. WOW!
His whole presentation was spoken in the first person- "I brought you to this place..., I did this...,etc." I never heard him say that maybe GOD had brought this land to them.
Very Large EGO!
027 6:23 PM, October 23, 2006
BR said...
I have not seen the entire dvd because it is always checked out when I go to the library. Maybe they should order more copies.
028 1:30 PM, October 24, 2006
To the guy who said "Didn't I tick you guys off?"
Yep...looks like youd did.
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