Monday, July 28, 2008

The "New" Bellevue


Update: The uncut, unedited version has resurfaced.

On Sunday morning, July 13th, both services at Bellevue opened with a rousing choir number with a stage full of young, barefoot, writhing, cavorting, "interpretive" dancers. Apparently several people in the congregation walked out then, and the church office received a number of complaints on Monday.


By the middle of the week, the video archive of this service had been edited, with the baptismal service and dance number cut out. However, we have now been provided with an uncut version. So here, for your viewing... uh... pleasure... is the mysterious, vanishing dance video.


Steve Gaines, who was not present for the performance, apologized to the congregation the following Sunday. He wasn't out of town or anything; he just attended another local church. Yet this Sunday night he stated, "You can't find anywhere in the Bible where a layman told an elder what to do." Sheep have no voice. Not as long as there are still the "elders we didn't know we had."


*********

373 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 373 of 373
Lynn said...

New BBC Open Forum said...

AOG makes some very good points! The presidential race is a two-person race. Like it or not, either Obama or McCain is going to win. That's it. So it boils down to which one you think is the lesser of two evils. Voting for anyone else is throwing away your vote, or more likely, in the case of conservatives, just giving Obama another vote because it seems conservative voters are more likely to vote for a third-party or write-in candidate than are liberal voters who will be more inclined to unite behind the Democratic candidate. The time for "voting your conscience" was during the primary. Now the choices are down to two, and one of them will win. In November, if you're planning to vote for someone besides one of the two main candidates, please do everyone a favor and stay home so the lines will be shorter for the rest of us!

8:40 AM, August 15, 2008


Actually NASS, I disagree with this. This is where the Democratic and Republican parties has us and takes us for granted. We as Americans need to wake up and stop letting the two major parties take us for granted. We need to make them EARN our votes.

Francesca said...

I want to agree with Cakes on this. I spent three years teaching high ESL, and what he says abut the ESL and Special Ed kids having the same test is absolutely right on. The administration was CONSTANTLY talking about the CSAP scores (Colorado standardized test). Over one-half of our students were non-native speakers! Can you just imagine trying to take such a test after one semester of Japanese or Russian or Chinese etc? What IS the matter with these people? In our case, it is the state legislature that sets up the rules along with the Colorado Dept. of Ed. IT IS A JOKE!

Lindon said...

Cakes, you make some very good points. And you are dead on about the NCLB! It is a mess and is not working. It will be scrapped soon and another stupid program will take it's place. One of the things that always boggled my mind about education is all the experts who develop these educational theories who never had kids.

Our Congress is more like the Politburo of the USSR in how they take care of themselves. Why don't we insist they (and all federal workers) have to participate in Social Security and the same health insurance plans we have to choose from? We have a former congressman here who served ONE term, was voted out, and gets benefits for life.

gmommy said...

I vaguely remember that ho ho's were available somehow thru our blog once upon a time.
I vote to bring back chocolate treats!!!

gmommy said...

Happy Birthday Padroc!!!!!!!

tn_lizzie2000 said...

I can't type a ho ho, but here's a bunch of chocolate brownies, topped with Hershey's Kisses and Hugs:
[X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O]

For anybody whose counting, that is a Gross of brownies, or a dozen dozen. That's almost as many birthday blessings I pray for, for our dear Padroc! In his honor, I shall now commence munching on brownies! :oP

Lynn said...

Lindon said...

Cakes, you make some very good points. And you are dead on about the NCLB! It is a mess and is not working. It will be scrapped soon and another stupid program will take it's place. One of the things that always boggled my mind about education is all the experts who develop these educational theories who never had kids.

Our Congress is more like the Politburo of the USSR in how they take care of themselves. Why don't we insist they (and all federal workers) have to participate in Social Security and the same health insurance plans we have to choose from? We have a former congressman here who served ONE term, was voted out, and gets benefits for life.

11:28 PM, August 15, 2008


Lindon...don't forget....unless I'm mistaken.....If John Ford ever gets out of jail, he still gets a pension from the state legislature.

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Have you seen the entire list of qualifications necessary for Bellevue's Dental Clinic Program Director job? Who came up with this part?!

"Physical Abilities:
While performing the duties of this job the employee is regularly required to use hands to finger, handle, or feel; reach with hands and arms and talk or hear. Employee must regularly lift and/or move up to 10 pounds and be able to move about in mobile unit. Specific vision abilities required by this job include close vision, distance vision, color vision, peripheral vision, depth perception and ability to adjust focus."

I am assuming the applicants must also be able to breathe and dress themselves, but somehow those points got left off.

And where are all the missing commas? Reading the whole thing as weird as it was was made more difficult by the lack of proper punctuation excruciating focus on some physical capabilities and lack of comment about any spiritual component to the job except for the ability to prepare for and "clean-up after ministry is completed."

Why can people not see how far Bellevue has sunk? Oh, Lord, come quickly!

tn_lizzie2000 said...

I just re-read my Brownie post. Argh! I meant who's not whose.

Methinks I should quit munching brownies and go to bed.

Good night, y'all!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Someone sent me this yesterday:

How To Save The Government $5 Million

A president's pension currently is $191,300 per year.

Assuming the next president lives to age 80, John McCain would receive ZERO pension as he would reach 80 at the end of two terms as president. Barack Obama would be retired for 26 years after two terms and would receive $4,973,800 in pension.

Therefore it would certainly make economic sense to elect McCain in November.

How's that for nonpartisan thinking???

Dr. Bill Loney said...

Such seriosity and discontentamation growing in the meadows of the blogfullated acres(and yet not one mention of the Georgian's body recovery of the Sasquatchian menace!)

I am neither a republican or democrat, and seeing as how my legend and popularity grows among my Chinese co-villagerates, it is doubtful that I will be stateside to vote in the electorations.

No, I'm a common man, who if possible would drive a common van, and if I had a dog(very unlikely here...no further comment), he would not have a pedigree, and if I had my say, it's probably gonna stay that way...but I digress.

As I thumb through the pages of my novelesque cerebral confusion and cross reference it with some of the previous statements, this thought arises...

To our most wise and honorable government, we should gladly hand over the reigns of healthcare, any and all forms of education, our well-being and care in our waning years, the production and provision of any form of energy, and the distribution of wealth and every basic need, good, or service to every citizen. Why? you might ask.

Because of their proven track record with Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Welfare, Public Education, Homeland Security, the EPA, the Veteran's Administration, FEMA, the Border Patrol, Central Intelligence, Campaign Finance, the Energy Department, the FDA, CDC, and the USPS.

All of these vital entities and grand ideas, operating with efficiency, effectiveness, accountability, and precision. But they are going to need trillions for the future to continue their sterling performance. Just where would be if we hadn't given them the trillions they needed for funding over the past years?

I don't know the answer to that...any takers?

And BTW, doesn't it warm even the coldest heart cockels just to think that you have the great privilege to involuntarily fund these 'projects' regardless of their performance? Man, it makes me wish I had paid taxes over the past few decades.

As my brother and cousin(don't ask), Phel Loney, used to say:

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, and if you fool me once, shame on you and if you fool me twice shame on you and me, and fools rush in where wise men only sorta mosey in, but only I can fool all of the people at the check cashing store all of the time"

A highly sweetened, lowly nutritious sports drink on a humid day with a dangerously high heat index, Phel, a highly sweetened, lowly nutritious sports drink on a humid day with a dangerously high heat index.

William T. Loney, MD

Dianna said...

I am a Shelby County teacher and former Bellevue member who attended our system-wide inservice at Bellevue on August 7. I was shocked that this inservice was allowed at Bellevue. A SCEA/TEA/NEA representative was allowed to speak and encourage membership from the pulpit! I never remember anyone from SCEA speaking at inservices in the past. But this year they were allowed and in a Baptist Church! I belong to the CEIA, Chrisian Education International Association, and they are never allowed to openly encourage membership.
There was also a comic skit put on by a group of 4 (can't remember the group's name), paid for with our tax money. In the skit which lasted about 30 minutes, there was a joke about Chippendales, Sex Ed class, someone's rear end, and a slur against McCain, and all of this was from the pulpit!
And to top it off, there were merchants selling jewelry, clothing, purses, etc. in the lobby!
I can't believe this hasn't been discussed more, made the news, newspaper,etc. My heart was broken that Bellevue has veered so far from the conservative leadership of Dr. Rogers. Does anyone at Bellevue not remember the stance he took against the liberal NEA and what they stood for? This was just unbelievable!

David Hall said...

Happy Birthday, Padroc!

Hey, we can explicate divergent, even starkly contrasting views, and still regard one another as precious, well-meaning and thoughtful individuals.

I'm left of Bill Clinton, but I think y'all are awesome. "Our dear Cakes"--that just touches my heart.

Love and smootches too.

bowtheknee said...

"To our most wise and honorable government, we should gladly hand over the reigns of healthcare, any and all forms of education, our well-being and care in our waning years, the production and provision of any form of energy, and the distribution of wealth and every basic need, good, or service to every citizen. Why? you might ask.

Because of their proven track record with Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Welfare, Public Education, Homeland Security, the EPA, the Veteran's Administration, FEMA, the Border Patrol, Central Intelligence, Campaign Finance, the Energy Department, the FDA, CDC, and the USPS."

Dr. Loney,

You have won the award for saying so eloquently what I was not able to say in earlier posts to Cakes. This is so true! I do not want to hand over one more part of our lives to the government. They do not have a track record of success.

By the way Cakes, I do not think you are "dumb" but ill informed. I will admit out loud on this blog in front of many of my friends that I almost voted for Bill Clinton the first time before my bro in law took me aside and set me straight. He recommended I start listening to conservative talk radio. I know what you are thinking. You have either listened to bits and pieces or have heard bits and pieces on the news and you would never ever listen to such drivel. I would ask you to pick one of the top shows and listen for about six weeks before making any judgements. I thought I was an "independent" until I started listening in and then I realized I was actually very conservative - not because I was being brainwashed - but because that was really what was in my heart and mind. I had told my parents when I was in my teens that Social Security was idiotic. My mother completely disagreed with me and said no one would be able to take care of themselves without it. Now we are seeing that people my age and younger are forced to pay into a system they will probably never get any money out of. Is this "fair?" Of course not. It is just like the small business owners being punished for everything they do - very high taxes - even though they are the central backbone of this country. I own a small business. Thankfully mine has very low overhead and the tax system actually helps me. My friends who are in small business tell me nightmare stories about their tax situations. Cakes, your eyes might be opened by talking to some small business owners in your neighborhood. Ask them about their overhead and tax situation. It is amazing that any of them are in business. Obama as President with a democratic Congress will only make it more and more difficult for them. To Democrats small and large businesses are the enemy.

Now explain to me how Drill Here/Drill Now will so impact our environment that our planet will eventually be destroyed. It isn't going to happen. Oil is a natural resource. It is not the enemy. By the way, the History channel is going to have an interesting show on oil next Sat August 23. I think it is a 7:00 pm but check your listings. We all need to remember to watch it. We hear so much propaganda about oil. Did you know even if we ALL stop driving our cars today we would need 5 million barrels of oil every single day to make all the other things we use in everyday life - all plastics, make up, Vaseline, etc. The list goes on and on........

gmommy said...

TnLiz,
Thanks for those SWEET brownies!!!

Dianna,
Glad to hear from someone who was there!! Thanks for the info!

It's a very serious issue when even Dr Looney veers from his always welcome humor!!

Lynn said...

Politicians are like diapers....they need to be changed often and for the same reasons.

Lin said...

I agree with lots that Cakes has written, too. I believe that greed has become a virtue. Even for pastors. We spend an inordinate amount of time explaining why wealth is really NOT bad and why certain people in Christendom deserve their large incomes. But wealth isn't bad, it is how we obtain wealth and what we do with it that is bad.

I also believe that many professing evangelical Christians are really Darwinian at heart. They have lots of mercy for someone in power who rapes a child or a pastor like Ted Haggard but will turn around a blame a single mom for being poor or blame a victim of abuse. (She made her bed) And when the celebrity pastors sin, they are simply 'mistakes'. Its those other bad people who are the real bad sinners...you know, the ones who point it out.

The more I look, the more I see evangelical Christianity in this country looks more like the culture it came from. In many respects, it is worse. At least a victim of abuse can find help from the secular culture when the church is just trying to hide it.

concernedSBCer said...

Hi dear blog friends!

I finally caught up today (I really like Olympic diving, but I've missed you guys far too much!) and I'd like to jump in on this very good discussion.

Lin: Kudos for making the best point of the day....well, one of them anyway! Why, of why, are people giving money for building projects when single moms and dads are struggling to feed their kids? Frankly, money isn't even the answer. WHY are there so many single moms and dads? Because somewhere along the way our children aren't being taught the meanings of such words as commitment, sacrifice, mercy, and compromise. And don't forget love. This problem needs to be addressed starting in the nursery. We should be raising men not boys. We should be teaching responsibility and humility and commitment. And....guess what? You aren't always going to be "happy" so just keep on plugging....it's not all about you.

Sorry...rant over.

More coming..... :)

concernedSBCer said...

Cakes: You are our dear Cakes (and I've missed you and I have some school stuff for you! Email me!) and while we certainly don't agree on everything, we can discuss in a manner that is respectful. I think moderation is the key. We are told by God to be in charge of the earth and I believe that means several things. God placed resources for us to use. He also expects us to use them wisely, replacing when possible. Again, responsibility comes in to play here as well. Personal and corporate responsibility to use the resources given to us BY GOD to use and to be good stewards of it.

With regard to schools and NCLB, I think that with or without NCLB our schools are in a mess. Basics are not being taught for all the "extras." I am a homeschool guidance counselor and when I get high school transcripts from transferring students I am amazed and appalled. Instead of necessary core classes in 9th grade like World Geography or World History, I see "Peer Counseling" or "Fashion Design." Instead of seeing Algebra 1 or even pre-algebra, I see "Foundations 1" which is a middle school "these are numbers" arithmetic course. I totally get that not every student is destined for college. But why put them on that track before you really know? Of course, with Bredesen's new graduation requirements, which will first affect the Class of 2013 (current 8th graders), there is no track except College Path. We do need to raise the educational bar, not lower it, starting in K or 1st. Education is the only true path to freedom, independence and responsibility and is available for all, with some effort. I get so heartsore for wonderful teachers, like you, that pour everything into their kids. And I know that a horrible home situation can't be completely overcome in school....but surely 7-8 hours a day will help.

Anyway.....all this to say that the government isn't doing so hot with education, sop the less control they have over things like healthcare, the better. :) JMHO, of course. :)

gmommy said...

Just got finished watching Hardball.
Rick Warren's name was brought up several times. They said he was a different kind of evangelic.....he doesn't focus on SIN issues as much as SOCIAL issues.
Just passing that tidbit along. :)

oc said...

In my work, I deal with junior and senior high-schoolers who can't even read elemenary literature, who cannot spell, and cannot write a complete sentence. I even have had some who can't tell time looking at a clock that doesn't have digital numbers.

Whatever is happening with public education, I know it's not working.

BkWormGirl said...

So what will everyone be watching tonight? Phelps and Torres or Warren/Obama with a sideline by McCain?

concernedSBCer said...

Phelps and Torres for me. :) I like to see America succeed! :)

Lynn said...

BkWormGirl said...

So what will everyone be watching tonight? Phelps and Torres or Warren/Obama with a sideline by McCain?

5:46 PM, August 16, 2008

I'd rather watch Phelps go for the double quadfecta than watch a bunch of moonbats.

gmommy said...

I just flipped onto CNN.
I admit I have not been paying attention to politics in the past 6 months to a year....but is that really Rick Warren asking the questions to the presidential candidate??????

If so....is RW a politician now...
as usual...I'm confused!

gmommy said...

Wow..Obama thinks that people who make $150,000 are middle class.
I'm afraid to ask what that makes me.
BUT he SAYS that people who make 150,000 or less will see a tax cut if he is elected.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I admit I laughed when RW asked Obama what he considers "rich." After pausing Obama said, "Well, if you have $25 million in book sales in one year... you're probably rich." Touché!

Lynn said...

Oh...its on Both Fox and CNN.

Considering Warren is best buds with Murdoch...Murdoch has to be bent that CNN is also airing it lol.

Oh yeah...Memo to Obama....Ross Perot called...he wants his ears back.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Wow..Obama thinks that people who make $150,000 are middle class.
I'm afraid to ask what that makes me.
BUT he SAYS that people who make 150,000 or less will see a tax cut if he is elected."


And if you believe that, I've got some nice desert swampland I'll sell you cheap!

Did anyone see the news story today about low-income residents in Tennessee now being able to get free cell phones? I didn't realize a cell phone was a necessity.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"If anybody has any better ideas, I'm all ears."

-- Ross Perot, 1992

New BBC Open Forum said...

Obama regarding his ears.

gmommy said...

IF ...we could depend on what the 2 candidates are saying...my personal opinion is that I agree with the words McCain is saying....nice to hear them answer the same questions.

Many younger adults believe McCain is "old school" and not able to communicate effectively with other countries.
Who knows..but I guess I WILL go vote now.

gmommy said...

McCain doesn't seem to have issues with women.
He was excited that women were "running Rwanda".

He seems to be compassionately and intelligently in touch with what's going on around the world... not the impression many younger adults have....good!!

He IS a Baptist...so is he SBC????

Dr. Bill Loney said...

employment uncertainties...higher taxes...healthcare worries...all of these are legitimate concerns

So, please friends, do not quit your day(or night) jobs...especially to do something like, uh, say professional bowling. Because guess what...I have seen many of you bowl...and vice versa:)...of course some of you do hover around the century mark

WTL, MD

ps...I would never purposely cause my Loney mystique to grow, except for a couple of inquiring emails recently received

Anonymous said...

Thank You one and all for my birthday wishes. I had a wonderful time with my children and grandchildren and friends and family.

My best gift was a can of potted Possum meat. Dr. Bill, let me know when and I'll meet you on the corner and we can share.

And, hey if anyone else would like to share please email me and let me know.

Back atcha with all that good stuff,

Padroc

oc said...

Ah, Doc. It's easy for you to tell us not to try to pursue professional bowling while you live in luxury in an above garage loft while feasting on Spam daily. Many of us are struggling in our day jobs, and don't have the prestigious degrees and a thriving medical practice that you have. Nor do we have the option to show our vestigial tail in order to earn a few extra bucks. And all this without paying taxes. I think we need some career counseling from you, as well as tax advice.
Yours truly,
oc.

oc said...

PS. My chihuahua is missing. Are you still in China?

concernedSBCer said...

Gosh, I'm sorry that good conversation stopped. Is it me????

oc said...

I saw the Rick Warren special last night. Before seeing it, I was in woe because of the choices we had for president. After seeing the "special", I now have a different perspective. I saw Obama stuttering and vague, attempting to be a people pleaser. I saw McClain stating short and sure answers. I wasn't going to vote, because I thought there wasn't all that much difference between the two.
I have now decided that I will vote.


PS. The Olympics? Eight gold. Way to go Phelps! :)

oc said...

And I'm now convinced more than ever that if Obama becomes president, it will be an ObamaNation. Pun intended.

Lynn said...

Your right.

Am I the only one who noticed that when asked about evil....Obama never even bothered to mention Al Quaeda? While McCain started off with them off the bat?

Dr. Bill Loney said...

It seems the long arm of the law can always reach the doctor.

As I was jogging(shirtless of course) along the outskirts of our village, I noticed an enormous raccoon climbing among the bamboo shoots...probably a three to four hundred pounder!

I figured I could score some brownie points with my upstairs cart garage bungalow landlord by bringing home supper(baked coon is a delicacy on loney mountain)...so I snuck up on this uber-coon and decided I would use the Loney Mountain method of subduing delicious varmints...just wop him on the head with something...so I monkeyed up the bamboo behind him and smacked him good and hard on the noggin with a bamboo stick. I expected that he would kinda seize up and just drop to the ground... but that's where my suspecting went sorta awry.

This steroidian mutant coon commenced to wailing on me about the head and neck area like I had stolen something...that's when I noticed that there was a baby raccoon up in the bamboos.. and every good coon hunter knows that you don't mess with a sow with with a minicoon(but even the minicoon went about 50 lbs!).

Well, after about 30 minutes of coon mauling I guess my shrieks of pain and screams for sweet death caught the attention of some passerby officers. Coonzilla must have been startled by them so she slid back up in the bamboo with baby zilla. I figured they would tend to my wounds and get me some official doctoring, but my figuring was awry as my previous suspecting.

They yelled at me something awful and commenced to give me my second whooping of the hour by way of gun butts and batons,followed by a hogg tying and trip to the local lockup. Course, I cant understand but about 3 words of their manderinesing, but the best I could tell, these coon kongs over here are either out of season or you just cant hunt'em.

I put up my elcartimino for bond and was released on my own recognization. So, if any of you plan on visiting here...a word to the wise...leave their coonasaurs alone...they don't take very kindly to it.

William T Loney, MD

bowtheknee said...

OC,

You are right about Obama and his stammering around. This is why he won't do a Town Hall meeting with McCain. I hope you aren't the only one in this country who noticed the differences!!!! I am not a huge McCain supporter but I will vote for him. He came off as extremely patriotic and proud of our country which is in stark contrast to Obama. I also noticed that Obama presented a clear gospel message when asked about Jesus Christ whereas Rick Warren tends to muddy the waters when he preaches and speaks. Very interesting.

Everyone,

Remember Founders Days at the Seminary starts tomorrow night at 7:00. Hope to see some of you there!

oc said...

Uh, Doc?
Raccoons in China are called Pandas.

Just sayin'.
oc.

oc said...

Bowtheknee,
I hope everyone can get a second look at the event. There is much eye-darting, stammering, stuttering, and evasion of direct questions. It is surprising to me, coming from a polished and prepared politician, that he seems unaware and unprepared for basic questions.
For some reason, he did not seem prepared to answer what I believe are basic questions of concern to the nation. The way he did not answer spoke loudly to me.

gmommy said...

AS I said in an earlier post...I wasn't going to vote. After watching Warren question Obama and McCain...it was as clear as it could be for me.
Hope some of the young adults who planned on voting for Obama watched.
I agree with what BTK and OC said about the answers given.
I'm not into the mainstream religious thinking right now of voting for the Huckabee type candidate but McCain didn't stutter a bit about what he believed.

Since Edwards (aw shucks) has shown himself not to be the shining family man he presented himself to be...who can trust someone who tries to runs mainly from a Christian moraled platform???
But McCain showed a lot of character....even saying he regretted his failed marriage. I definitely feel better having someone in office who has experienced the reality of war. He lived thru kidnapping and torture...that tells me he also has strength and resilience.

Does anyone know anything about his wife....I haven't ever heard her talk????

amazed said...

Boy am I glad to see a few eyes have opened after watching the forum at Saddleback. The true Obama comes out when he is not speaking from a prepared script. I have never heard such drivel coming from a person that is running for president. McCain sure came across as a decisive leader.

Billie Tapp said...

It is good to know that we can agree on this issue of McCain and Obama.

Lin said...

Does anyone know anything about his wife....I haven't ever heard her talk????

6:59 AM, August 18, 2008

Google her. Cindy McCain. Interesting stuff. She has done some international relief work that has gone unnoticed. She is also from a very rich family and inherited the company. A beer distributership.

McCain is not to be trusted. His record speaks for itself. He will govern as a liberal. Wait and see.

But he is better than the radical anti America Barak Hussein Obama, the JUNIOR senator from Chicago who got his start as hack political organizer in the Chicago machine. And who attended a Madrassa in Indonesia as a boy. i do not believe Obama is a muslim but I do believe he is an opportunist and that is why the church he attended (that he is now distancing himself from) was a good fit political fit for him in his district. And one reason why he can say that 'sin' is going against ones 'values'.

oc said...

Of course McCain can't be trusted. After all, he IS a politician. I haven't trusted one of those since after Ronald Reagan. Reagan was a good president. I think the greatest. And I believe history will later bear out that Bush was a good president too, no matter how much people may ridicule him now. He made some brave decisions.

Once again, and as always, the options are limited, of course. That's the nature of the game. I think McCain is not as conservative as I would like. But he is just the best option we have. He at least stated that human rights begin at conception. And he's a patriot. He's sacrificed for this country. That's more than I can be assured from the other camp, who believe that $150,000 dollars is the poverty line. Has he actually been living in America, or the Land of Oz?

Dr. Bill Loney said...

OC,

I believe that Panda in the native tongue over here means 'great coon', but I'd have to do more research to be certain.

Whatever the case, the authorities took my mug shot and also took a picture of the criminal coons; I'll leave them on my profile page.

WTL, MD

Dr. Bill Loney said...

my mistake, I couldn't get the coon pictures on there too; I might put them up tomorrow.

WTL, MD

gmommy said...

OC, I agree with all of your points about McCain...and the 150,000! What's OB smoking????

I saw McCain's wife today on TV...it was an April appearance. She was nice, articulate and has had a stinking stroke already!!! She is 18 years his junior but his mom is still alive at 96. And they have been married 28 years....that's good today!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Oh, this is ripe! Our own Dr. William T. Loney now has his own blog which will be linked on the front page. Enter at your own risk!

David Hall said...

I think the current administration has corrupted just about everything they've touched and trampled upon the principles for which this country was founded. I don't trust the republican party anymore. The very fact that the moderate McCain is the nominee speaks volumes about the meteoric rise of the neocons and swift fall into disgrace after so many significant blunders. It's not just the mistakes, but the hubris mingled with impotence and sense of entitlement that marks the Bush administration. This Buddhist finds them immoral and without conscience.

Any response by a politician running for president will be calculated. Both McCain and Obama are a new direction for this country, and whomever wins, I have faith that their administrations will not treat political power as a cloistered monarchy, and represent all instead of only some of us; value our international relations rather than run roughshod over them; truly venerate our military by only putting them in harms way when absolutely nessesary, instead of fibbing, exploiting the fear and suspicion of the populace to launch preemptive wars on fuzzy speculation; seek the imput of educators on education, instead of marginalizing them because they despise unions; putting qualified professionals in sensitive positions of authority like Fema and the Justice Department, instead of political cronies that flub things up royally; respect the principle of Habeas Corpus--a pillar which has distinquished this country since its birth.

I like Obama and find him refreshing--I also believe his presidency will usher in an era of racial reconciliation that is both nessesary and long overdue; I've always admired McCain's independence from the strong armming of his own party--that takes integrity.

I'll be voting for Obama, because the Republicans have lied too much about too many things, and of more consequence than a sexual tryst (and of course absolutely never, ever, under oath); and I don't think McCain--even as president--can resist the disasterous compulsions of his party.

I respect wholeheartedly that y'all may see things differently, and encourage you to vote your conscience.

Be well, my peeps.

gmommy said...

Cakes , Thanks for laying out what you see and believe. I don't blame you for anything you said. My daughter has many of the same convictions about what the Republican party has become and what change she would like to see.
I guess you have heard Obama speak more than just the other night. I really haven't paid alot of attention before and the other night he didn't present himself well at all...in my opinion.

I hope we do straighten up as a country....I just don't know if that much change is feasable with any new president in office but it's what we have to deal with so we have to be hopeful.
I'm still your peeps...I think...(is that your people??? :)

MOM4 said...

oc said:
"And I believe history will later bear out that Bush was a good president too, no matter how much people may ridicule him now. He made some brave decisions."

The majority of lefties in the media have failed to note the discovery and the recent secret transportation of a vast quantity of yellow cake uranium from Iraq to Canada. The Bush Administration has known for some time that the WMD component existed and had hidden the information as well as the component until it could be safely moved out of the reach of terrorists all the while taking the critisizm of the Democrats and the Media. It takes quite a man to sit on evidence that could potentially clear your name all the while knowing the truth and allowing the hacks to run wild with lies.
NOW their stories are that "well, it was only yellow cake used for nuclear energy and not for WMD's" - If that is so, then why did Iraq only have facilities for enrichment to make WMD's and NOT A SINGLE POWER PLANT IN THE WORKS OR FUTURE PLANS???
HMMMMM..........

David Hall said...

Yesterday's Letters to the Editor broached that subject.

"Half-baked on 'yellowcake'

I was intrigued by a July 26 letter to the editor, "No space for real news," and another on Aug. 1, both about the discovery and removal of 550 tons of "yellowcake" uranium in Iraq. Both writers, in some convoluted twisting of bad facts, blamed the media for not reporting and of covering this up.

The first writer claimed there were no headlines when 600 tons of yellowcake were just found in Iraq. Um, maybe because he didn't read newspapers even back then when the 550 tons of natural uranium were found in the early 1980s?

After the Israelis bombed the Tuwaitha nuclear reactor site in 1981, UN inspectors found, documented and safeguarded the uranium for many years. It has been stored in aging, decaying barrels and guarded by U.S. and Iraq troops since 2003. It was in the newspapers. All the uranium found is pre 1991. None is weapons grade and wouldn't even make a dirty bomb.

Next, the writer said that all Saddam Hussein needed was the aluminum tubes. The same ones President Bush, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell claimed Iraq was trying to buy to make weapons of mass destruction. Remember it on TV? The tubes we stopped Saddam from getting were determined to be rocket launching tubes exactly like the ones Iraq had used in the Iran war. The Department of Energy said the tubes were unusable in a gas centrifuge, and the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate said the tubes were useless.

Finally, the writer, who read the AP piece "Nuclear seed removed from Iraq" online, claims the American press and the CA were afraid to print the article because "the truth might help to validate the reason for the war in Iraq." The article was in the CA July 6, 2008, and in several hundred other newspapers and news sites. Google it.

Richard West

Cordova"

The Bush Administration sold the war on lies--even Colin Powell said as much.

MOM4 said...

And the lies go on....the BAD info/intel came from the Clinton era CIA director. While I do not agree with how Iraq was handled, I am not at a level in the intellegence community to know all the secrets and I dare say anyone here is! All we can do is to search out the facts as we know them, which seem to me to support the WMD concerns as well as the fact that the CIA and others (Wilson/Plame) had some political posturing going on to diliberately twist and spin the events. We know the yellow cake did exist, we know that satellite images show a huge parade of trucks leaving Iraq going into Syria in the pre-invasion period. We know that Iraq had possession of WMDs and had not hesitated to use them in the past. We know that there were no freedoms for the Iraqi people and they were used as pawns in this political mess called the UN whose inspectors were shut out. If there was nothing to hide, why did Sadam to that?
I can say that there is probably a whole lot to this story that we will never know. For me to condem someone for their actions all the while not having all the facts would be incongruous with reason at best.

Lynn said...

I think Cakes has a valid point about the Republican party. The republican party has lost its way. Instead of being for fiscal responsibility, they have been spending like drunken sailors on pet projects (Bridge to Nowhere in Alaska for starters). The Republican party has completely abandoned its core principals for the almighty dollar and power and has given us the proverbial finger.

I have never seen this country so divided. It seems to me that nowadays, you can't be considered a conservative or a liberal without the other side calling you the most evil person in the world. We may not agree on much politically, but that doesn't make someone a bad person just because they believe the opposite way on things. I may be mistaken, but when the founding fathers created the Constitution, on some issues, compromises had to be made where both sides gave a little in order to serve the best interests of the country.

As for the war, it was a major mistake. Not only do I believe we were lied to in regards to it, I believe our government got over confident and went in without a plan to get us out as soon as possible. This war has been more of a distraction than anything else. We need to do what we can to take out those responsible for 9/11 who is still on the loose.

BTW, on a local level, I read something rather disturbing in the letters to the editor the other day. A high school student who is taking Advanced Placement classes is attending classes with no books. If that is not disturbing to you, I don't know what is. While I think it was a stupid idea to yank funding from the schools, the school administration (Namely those working down on Avery street) needs to be held accountable. There is no excuse for the school system to leave the teachers out to dry and leave them unequipped to do their job and leave the kids without textbooks for which they need to learn. One of the most important jobs in society is being a teacher. If teachers are not given the tools necessary to do their job.


BTW Cakes, how has it been the first couple weeks back in school? I hope things are going well.

David Hall said...

Well, they say one should never debate politics or religion with friends; and being a liberal Buddhist, I might be out of my element expressing forthrightly my leanings. But I only feel so comfortable doing so because I feel so comfortable with you'all.

As for school, it's been a whirlwind of activity--but I'm glad to be back at work. I go to work with countless children wanting to hug on me and I think "man, I've got the greatest job in the world." By the end of the day, I often think, "what in the heck am I doing."

But my principal loves me, my bosses at the board love me and there's nothing like being appreciated for the work you do. I will continue classes for my masters in education next week and I am seriously interested in a PhD down the road. I am extremely motivated to develop cross-correlated curriculum (say that 3 times)--to offer children the opportunity to cultivate critical thinking skills, and art provides the conduit like nothing else at school.

My body, mind and emotions are threadbare I must admit, however. I work all the time, and have procured even more work outside as a freelance artist, because I cannot afford tuition otherwise. I'm lonely and will probably be so for the next few years, I surmise. My life is all about work.

gopher said...

Meanwhile back on the farm:

Birds of a Feather Flock Together

Steve praises his old buddy from Two Rivers Baptist Church

Here



Steve attended the Temple of Deliverance church to "study their culture", the day BBC had it's own "dance" Sunday


Now look whats going on there - - - - (Warning Secular Site)




Last Sunday Steve explains why the crowd is thinning out at BBC
Here

David Hall said...

And Lynn, thanks for speaking up for the weirdo. tehe!

gmommy said...

to offer children the opportunity to cultivate critical thinking skills, and art provides the conduit like nothing else at school.

I agree completely! SO much can be accomplished thru the arts. And heaven KNOWS we all need critical thinking skills!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Interesting article on Temple of Deliverance, gopher. (Although I have to say "Sista Big Bone" was a bit much.) Some of the comments are hilarious.

ezekiel said...

Matt 23 and Romans 2.

gmommy said...

Please read the article from the Denver Post on Christa Brown's site.
It is appalling that we see once again the support a clergy sexual molester receives from "good church people". It seems to be the norm to "reject and judge" victims instead of the perps.

The world is in reverse rather than moving forward.

bowtheknee said...

FYI,

I sent an email to John McCain's church. Here is the response:

Thank you for your Inquiry. North Phoenix Baptist Church is a Southern Baptist Church. Please check our website www.discoverandlive.com for our beliefs, values and ministries. God bless. Nada

oc said...

BTN said:
"I sent an email to John McCain's church. Here is the response:
Thank you for your Inquiry. North Phoenix Baptist Church is a Southern Baptist Church..."

Well, he can still be forgiven...:)

gmommy said...

I enjoyed the dance video LESS the 2nd time around. The music is awful...
I keep thinking Damien..the child of Satan... is coming. Who the heck picked that????

all2jesus said...

Hi Dianna,

You may be wondering why there was little comment on your post about the teacher meeting, but it was previously discussed. See my post of 8/12 at 7:20pm.

That such material could be promoted (and performed) from the Bellevue pulpit is indeed shocking. Thanks for the additional info.

all2jesus said...

Thanks for those links, gopher.

Wow. So Steve thinks the seats are empty at Bellevue because he preaches on sin and judgement and people can't stand it. Slight correction there, Steve: The seats are empty because those with questions about sin in the camp have been invited to leave and bidden good-riddance when they did. It's called "taking out the trash", remember?

Well, our pastor preaches on sin, judgement, hell, repentance and faith in Jesus Christ every Sunday. No, I mean really: no soft-peddling of the Gospel, no easy-believeism, no attendance-enhancing programs, no giveaways, no partnering with unbelievers. Just good old-fashioned expository preaching. We're seeing record attendance and many are former Bellevue members, myself included. Why? Because the people of God love the truth of God. We can say with the hymn writer

I love to tell the story, for those who know it best
Seem hungering and thirsting to hear it like the rest.
And when in scenes of Glory I sing a new, new song,
T'will be the old, old story that I have loved so long.


But without integrity, it doesn't matter what a man preaches; he doesn't really believe it. It's just a tool to keep the rabble in line. I've seen our pastor's integrity up close and I know the loving, personal sacrifices he makes to tend his flock. There are no lies, deception or spin from the pulpit, because there's nothing to hide. Oh God, give us more men like this.

Lynn said...

all2jesus,

Which church is it your attending?

concernedSBCer said...

I had an interesting conversation last night with 5 college students. We had a discussion about "non-denominational" churches, about how all churches have a history and a tradition, and about how the problem with non-denominational churches is that many times there is no accountability.

I was thinking....SBC suposedly has accountability in place theoretically; yet, the leadership is so week, it isn't handled appropriately. So, maybe what we need is not more independence, maybe we need men of integrify leading denominations already established.

Where will they come fom?

all2jesus said...

Lynn said...
all2jesus,

Which church is it your attending?


I thought you'd never ask. ;-)
Ellendale Baptist

oc said...

Concernedsbcer's post made me think...

The longer I live "churchified":), the more I am really impressed with the early church. And I've asked myself these questions lately...

What "denomination" were they?
(of course, that's rhetorical, but let's think about it. Non-denominational churches suddenly seem to make some kind of sense to me).

What traditions did the early church have which governed their worship, faith and practice? Do we need traditions? If so, are all of them worthy and correct?

Who were they accountable to? Isn't Jesus and each other enough for us anymore?

Obviously I haven't thought any of this all the way through, but I thought I would throw it out here anyway. I am hoping y'all can help me think it through.

MOM4 said...

So Steve Gaines says that if he (being the great preacher man that he is) preaches on sin and hell then the people won't come and that is why the church is empty (and getting more and more empty every service), then why was it NOT empty when Dr. Adrian Rogers was preaching? Was he preaching milk toast Christianity? I think not! But is Gaines THAT deluded?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Good point.

Anonymous said...

Gopher posted:
"Last Sunday Steve explains why the crowd is thinning out at BBC"

I suggest that Dr. Gaines should use his own explanation for church growth, which is “it is God’s doing” and apply that same reasoning to the disappearance of members. “It is God’s doing”.

As I see it, the “heart” of what use to be Bellevue Baptist Church is now just an inaudible murmur and the doctor is standing there telling everyone his medicine doesn't get any better.

Padroc

bowtheknee said...

Mom4,

I think that was exactly the point SG was making - the pews were full when Dr. R was there because he was preaching another Jesus. Instead it is SG who is preaching another Jesus and yes, he is that deluded.

Lynn said...

MOM4 said...

So Steve Gaines says that if he (being the great preacher man that he is) preaches on sin and hell then the people won't come and that is why the church is empty (and getting more and more empty every service), then why was it NOT empty when Dr. Adrian Rogers was preaching? Was he preaching milk toast Christianity? I think not! But is Gaines THAT deluded?

8:04 PM, August 22, 2008

Apparently he is that deluded. I think people are much more smarter than he gives them credit for. People can see the hypocracy. Its hard to take someone seriously when they are behaving in a hypocritical manner.

Dr. Bill Loney said...

I may be returning soon. Explanation at Loney's World.

See yall soon,
WTL

Lynn said...

Joe Biden is Obama's Running Mate

BkWormGirl said...

Two things... First if the situation were not so tragic, the irony of SG's little spiel would be quite funny. However, the reality of so many people (even though the numbers are way down - I would view 5 people as too many) still walking in the door of that place is evidence of how many people are still blind to the truth is disheartening.

Second... not that I am disagreeing, I too feel Biden will be the person to run with Obama... how do we know? This great news for McCain if it is true.

gmommy said...

Nass,
I've been reading the different articles on the link Lin sent out. I think our blog friends would get a lot out of it.
Would you please post it????

Lynn said...

BkWormGirl said...

Two things... First if the situation were not so tragic, the irony of SG's little spiel would be quite funny. However, the reality of so many people (even though the numbers are way down - I would view 5 people as too many) still walking in the door of that place is evidence of how many people are still blind to the truth is disheartening.

Second... not that I am disagreeing, I too feel Biden will be the person to run with Obama... how do we know? This great news for McCain if it is true.

12:09 AM, August 23, 2008

It is true according to CBS News (they just broke into Craig Ferguson's show to report that)

gmommy said...

THIS ONE :
http://www.truthguard.com/index.php?categoryid=1

New BBC Open Forum said...

This one?

gmommy said...

Yes, thanks Nass!

Dianna said...

I posted a comment (August 16) about the Shelby County School's inservice at Bellevue. I would like some thoughts from others, especially oher Shelby County teachers who were present. I think my post was overshadowed by the Olympics and Rick Warren's forum with Obama and McCain which is understandable. Thanks, all2Jesus, for your comment about the inservice.

oc said...

"...My heart was broken that Bellevue has veered so far from the conservative leadership of Dr. Rogers. Does anyone at Bellevue not remember the stance he took against the liberal NEA and what they stood for? This was just unbelievable!"

2:18 AM, August 16, 2008


I'm sorry your heart is broken at what Bellevue has become. Many people feel that way. But unfortunately because of the leadership, it's not "unbelievable". But it sure is a shame. Have you watched the "dance"? If you have, the first response might be "unbelievable". On second viewing the response ought to be "should have seen that coming". Nothing should surprise us now. So watch the dance again, then after you do I will ask you...

NOW do you persist in unbelief?

bowtheknee said...

Dianna,

Many of us have been on this blog since its inception and on other BBC blogs even before this one started so we have pretty much seen and heard it all at this point. SG came to BBC to tear it down. He told the search committee that we were doing everything wrong so they were duly warned. I think the only thing that still shocks me is how quickly the tearing down has happened. The changes began in July 2005 before he even officially arrived in Memphis. It took much less than 3 years for the complete unraveling of the church. There are two ways to look at this situation. Bkwormgirl is disheartened by the fact that anyone is still going there. I am too. On the other hand, we know that the gate is narrow and there are few who will enter it so when you look at it from that direction, it is astounding that so many have left. I think I am personally disheartened that it took so many people so long to realize what was going on. I think many people wanted to give Steve the "benefit of the doubt" and that is one thing that led to the slow trickling out of people at the very beginning. Everyone had their ending point but mine came very early when I found out how Dr. Rogers, Dr. Whitmire, and Dr. Spradlin and their families had been treated. None of what happened with those families could be characterized as Christian behavior. A "pastor" who does not exhibit Christian characteristics does not belong in a pulpit. JMHO

MOM4 said...

bow,
are you telling me that Gaines thinks and/or has eluded to the idea that Dr Rogers really didn't preach the true Gospel of Jesus? I knew that Jamie Parker made a comment about not knowing how to "worship" until he went to Gardendale, but has Gaines said more to infer such a notion about Dr Rogers? I may have missed something here. Would that not be what Revelations called "calling good evil and evil good"!!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

mom4,

I'm not aware of SG ever saying that, but that's what one might deduce from what he did say. You said it all in your 8:04 comment last night.

gmommy said...

But have we really learned the biggest lesson from all this????

I know the answer from many of you but this is a general question.

Are we still looking to be "led" by a minister??
Even tho most of us loved Bro R and we have wonderful memories of our years at BBC..... do we see clearly that we as Christians are the church??
We are equal not under the authority of the ministers...especially when that ministers decides to twist God's Word.

Please give me grace as I share with you that I have gotten to the point where it makes me uncomfortable to hear those who have been thru the storm say "this minister is all this and that".

Because Bro R was an incredible man and minister, I think we all did some of that "slow boil" stuff.

Even if the minister is a humble and good man....we still don't need to look to that minister for the last word on God's Word....we have to be Bereans.

In my opinion, we still need to recognize that the local ministers (other than Mike S while at GBC)didn't dare speak out against what was happening at BBC. To our knowledge they didn't try and advise SG or correct him.
That says to me that they believe the minister has authority and he does not!
Also, even if you are in a SBC church with a kind and trust worthy minister....if he is taking his cues from the SBC...there are major problems brewing.
I remember not very long ago I felt good buying materials from lifeway...now I know not to go near that place.

Have any of these ministers said they disagree with the changes made at the top that have created the Macs and SGs??? These abusive, dictator ministers are all over the country.
The twisted interpretation of Genesis that the power brokers orchestrated from the SBC has caused alot of women to be abused in their own homes.

It has caused many victims of clergy abuse to be further violated by putting the blame on them and supporting what they see as the almighty "God's man".


I think watchdog is doing a great job of reporting on his blog about FBJ but sometimes what I hear sounds like we really want to be dumb sheep and have someone in charge that we can follow.

These men are NOT "anointed" more than we are as followers of Christ and His word.
Yes, the Bible has specific qualifications (which the SBC in general ignores) for ministers but Jesus is the shepherd.
He alone is in authority over the churches and over us.

Those are my thoughts. I mean no disrespect to my blog friends at all.

concernedSBCer said...

Dianna,
I am not a school teacher (I homeschooled) but I know what the NEA stands for. I know many good Christian teachers who have been bullied by strong-arm tactics. The idea that SG and BBC are pandering to that organization sickens me. I stand on scripture that says to flee from unrighteous things.....it does not say to dance with them.

1 Timothy 6:10-12 (King James Version)
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."

I know.....this says to love....and BBC LOVES Memphis. I have to wonder....did BBC love the church members that they told "if you don't like it, leave"? Did BBC love the wife and family of a beloved pastor?

It rings hollow, doesn't it?

gopher said...

So which is it?????

People leave because Steve preaches Sin and Judgement?

or people will come if Steve preaches Sin and Judgement?

James 1:8 here are 2 versions
"A man unsettled in his opinions is unstable in all his ways."
"A double minded man is inconstant in all his ways."

Remember this video where Steve said "...I'm going to tell them everything I don't like about their church..."
Didn't I Tick You Guys Off



By the way the September 11th is nearly upon us:

Steve enters Bellevue with his First Message in 2005

ezekiel said...

Anybody else see folks with "Bellevue loves Memphis" t-shirts standing at intersections collecting money today?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Well, attendance is down, so I guess they have to come up with creative ways to boost the receipts.

From Bellevue's website:

"Bellevue's new theme, 'Bellevue Loves Memphis,' is underscored by the fact that the church has never asked for money on its TV broadcast."

So they go to the streets to beg now?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Interesting, I missed this.

gopher said...

Water Giveaway
Project Description: Handing out bottles of water at intersections and telling people that Bellevue cares
Number of Participants: 25

Workday Programs Here

Get them in and then collect the $$$

New BBC Open Forum said...

View from the outside... and some interesting comments.

Lynn said...

gopher said...

Water Giveaway
Project Description: Handing out bottles of water at intersections and telling people that Bellevue cares
Number of Participants: 25

Workday Programs Here

Get them in and then collect the $$$

8:42 PM, August 23, 2008

Thankfully, when I was driving today, I did not see the water givers. Considering how bad of a mood I've been in this week, more likely than not, those water givers would have been getting a New York Cab Driver greeting if they approached me.

bowtheknee said...

Mom4,

I never heard him say that out loud. Those are just my thoughts looking at the past 3 years and then adding to that what he said about why the seats are empty. We know the seats were much more full before he arrived. I ditto what NASS said at 5:05.

New BBC Open Forum said...

We'd do it again!

MOM4 said...

The church did not preach to the school employees, but Barnwell said, "If you want to share the gospel, you have to be a good neighbor to them. Our goal is to always share the gospel and be a light in the community.only then will they have an open heart to hear the gospel."

"only then will they have an open heart to hear the gospel"

How is bringing in the NEA and handing out the Lord's tithe for secular purpose considering preparing hearts for the Gospel?

oc said...

"only then will they have an open heart to hear the gospel".

How good of a neighbor do you want to be? I hear that the Hell's Angels are in need of a meeting place. And the Lord knows they need the gospel...

oc said...

And this "Bellevue Loves Memphis" stuff. It just sounds so worldly and "marketing driven" so "commercial" and lame. And don't think for a second that even the unsaved don't notice what's NOT being said. Remember, they are unsaved. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are stupid.
So instead of "Bellevue Loves Memphis", why isn't the motto "JESUS Loves Memphis"?
Ashamed of His name? Or is the message that's coming through exactly what you mean?


As far as the Shelby County Teacher's inservice goes... I would think that if Bellevue really does love Memphis, the most loving gift would have been given that day...the gift of the Gospel to those school employees.
Those people were not loved that day. Instead, quite the opposite happened. No love shown, only apathy towards their relationship with God and a desire to accomodate the world in a "feel good" illusion that is afraid to offend the world with the Gospel. Bellevue failed the Lord that day. No one should come into any church building for any reason without being confronted with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you are using the parking lot, expect the Gospel. If you are at a church sponsored function, expect the Gospel. If you step on the church property, expect the Gospel. If you are using the church potty, expect the Gospel. If you phone the church, expect the Gospel. After all, everyone knows WHO the church is supposed to be about. In dealing with the church in any way, the lost should expect to hear the Gospel. They know that. So give it to them. We should be giving it every time. With no excuse, and no shame.

So no, Bellevue. You did not love Memphis on that day. You only made people feel good in their lostness. And surely that's not love.

bowtheknee said...

"No one should come into any church building for any reason without being confronted with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you are using the parking lot, expect the Gospel. If you are at a church sponsored function, expect the Gospel. If you step on the church property, expect the Gospel. If you are using the church potty, expect the Gospel. If you phone the church, expect the Gospel. After all, everyone knows WHO the church is supposed to be about. In dealing with the church in any way, the lost should expect to hear the Gospel. They know that. So give it to them. We should be giving it every time. With no excuse, and no shame."

I completely agree with this. There are far too many church "programs" that have nothing to do with the gospel and everything to do with anything else you can think of: worldliness or materialism, etc. One of the ways the churches as well as the schools have gotten so far off base is they are both wandering from the basics. You can't get a handle on more complex issues if you don't even know the basics. We need to be doing indepth Bible study instead of studying the latest book written by a "Christian" author.

Thanks OC.

gmommy said...

We need to be doing indepth Bible study instead of studying the latest book written by a "Christian" author.

Amen! to that BTK!!

For all the years my son was in the sports program the kids ALWAYS heard the gospel...at the parade, at the parties,during half time...so what's changed???

Random:
I finally got the "U" fixed on my laptop...so no more Yo Yo,Cakes :)

I was also visited by the lawn fairy while away!! YEAH!!!

Hey! Did anyone read anything on that link Nass posted??
About church ministers NOT being our authority or sheperd???

gmommy said...

Lynn,
do you have a link for the Warren / Obama/ McCain thing???

New BBC Open Forum said...

Here's one.

gmommy said...

Thank You!!

concernedSBCer said...

I really like the comment by OC and BowtheKnee about the church building used to give the gospel. I hate to see a church being used only on Sundays and Wednesdays. I wish the carpet got worn out every other year because of all the groups being allowed to use the facility. Of course....for every event, the gospel is shared.

Do we think Jesus would be pleased in closing up shop in the building He has provided? Of course not.

Of course, the line comes in letting anyone use the facility without sharing the gospel. That includes members of the NEA.

Also, a recent local story......Hope Pres. graciously offered their facility for the Memorial service for Isaac Hayes. A very nice gesture. Except, as I read it, Scientology would be preached buring the Memorial Service. I didn't hear a follow-up, but that's a sticky situation.

God's pulpit is sacred. Only His Word should be preached from it.

Lynn said...

gmommy,

Unfortunately, I don't have a link do that.

Speaking of Rick Warren, if I hear "Purpose Driven Life" just one more time, I'm gonna scream. For the second week in a row, one of the sunday school classes I've been visiting has been mentioning this book as something to possibly study in the future. I just sat there and rolled my eyes.


Now if you will excuse me, I just heard "Bitter, party of 1"....thats my table.

Lynn said...

Also, a recent local story......Hope Pres. graciously offered their facility for the Memorial service for Isaac Hayes. A very nice gesture. Except, as I read it, Scientology would be preached buring the Memorial Service. I didn't hear a follow-up, but that's a sticky situation.

God's pulpit is sacred. Only His Word should be preached from it.


Deskmom,

I was listening to Rock 103 the other day and they had Hope Pres. pastor on talking about that. No scientology was mentioned. It was according to him, to be a tribute to the life of Hayes. There was actually a private memorial the day before that had a lot of the scientologists, but I am not aware as to where that was.

Hayes will always be Chef to me lol.

gmommy said...

Lynn,
That is a well known Baptist church you have been visiting, is that correct???
And the leaders at this church haven't caught on to the news that the "Warren movement" is wrong??????
Are they in a bubble??????
(don't answer that last question)

oc said...

Alright. Did y'all go bowling without me?

gmommy said...

No bowling, OC :)

oc said...

Good gmommy, thanks. Glad I didn't miss bowling. Wait, you aren't ice fishing with NASS in Minnesota, are you?

oc said...

Well, it sure is quiet around here. NASS, did you have a party at your place in Minneapolis and did not invite me?
It seems that the lure of lutefisk, the staple of Norwegian immigrants whom home-steaded in the Great White North, has some how lured Chicken Fried Southerners to the the land of Ten Thousand Lakes to taste the slimy morsels of jellified fish. I've been there. Did not like it. I'm not going back and I'm not tasting it again.
Chicken is good. Beef is good. Jellied fish is not. Y'all let me know when you come back home, and maybe we'll barbecue something. :)

Lily said...

OC said: Well, it sure is quiet around here. NASS, did you have a party at your place in Minneapolis and did not invite me?


I don't know OC, they've all been gone a really long time. You don't think they all went to Denver do you? Surely not, not our buds.

gopher said...

Steve loves to tick people off, but do you know what ticks Steve off???

In the past , Steve has lashed out in the evening sermons about blogs, drinking, gambling, and divorce, and people who won’t swear allegiance to himself.

With a thinning crowd, who’s the next group to get bashed?

Now in Sunday’s AM services on 8 24 2008 gives us a clue:

-People who don’t Like certain Songs

-People who Leave during the Invitation

-Parents who use Kids as an excuse not to sit through a full sermon because they have to go to school the next day.

People who can barely make it to church because their tired…

-Pastors who Steal Sermons

-Choir Members who don’t want to endure 2 services Take 1

-Choir Members who don’t want to endure 2 services Take 2

If your “tick” has not been covered, just wait and Steve will get to you later.

You also missed Steve’s comment when he slipped up and said “King Steve’s Version” of the Bible, Reminds you of King Willie.

Now if you can’t find this sermon at the BBC web site, Jim Barnwell is still working on it.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Okay, I don't care who you are. Those are funny! Kudos to whomever made those.

It is interesting, don't you think, that here it is, Thursday night, and Sunday's sermon still isn't on the church's website. Most of it probably ended up in the same place as the dance video.

The "King Steve Version"? Unbelievable. I understand as soon as he said that he said to "cut that."

oc said...

Lily.
Oh no. I hope they didn't go to Denver. But I did see some of them at the mall the other day. And they were making some of the same moves as seen on the "dance" video. Covorting around, bending over etc. I asked them what they were doing and they said they were picking up loose coins, in order to make "change" because they didn't want Barak a bill. Uh oh.

Lynn said...

Ok....thats hillarious. Especially the bit with the two old guys in the balcony of the Muppet Show.

On a scale of 1-10 on hillariousness....its a 20

Git-R-Done

Lynn said...

oc said...

Lily.
Oh no. I hope they didn't go to Denver. But I did see some of them at the mall the other day. And they were making some of the same moves as seen on the "dance" video. Covorting around, bending over etc. I asked them what they were doing and they said they were picking up loose coins, in order to make "change" because they didn't want Barak a bill. Uh oh.

9:12 PM, August 28, 2008


Ba Da Da

That was a good one OC :)

oc said...

And I guess the fact that they haven't come back yet means they are Biden their time.

gmommy said...

Those snipets Gopher shared with us are so sad.

Can Steve or Mac(FBJ)teach from the Bible at all???

Is this the new self annointed way to preach???
It is my understanding that God's Word changes hearts and out of that heart comes changed behavior...
But wait!!!
That's not the purpose of these "sermons"...

The purpose is about Steve's will...not God's.

Lynn said...

Its speculated that McCain will pick Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate.

gopher said...

Steve is scheduled to speak to the Memphis State Football team tonight and will be telling them that there is "truth" with a "right" and a "wrong".

concernedSBCer said...

Hi All!
Nope, didn't go to Denver. I couldn't even watch the coverage. Sand isn't so bad in your ears. :)

I'm happy with McCain's choice.

Has Doc gotten back to the states yet? We only have two of those overgrown raccoons here....he'd be okay. :)

I've been thinking......another bowling party in the valley? Anyone up for that?

WTL said...

Hope this short 'hello' finds you all doing well.

Please remember me and my family as well as our state(La) before the Lord.

We trust the Lord's providence whether it smiles or frowns and know that he is the Master of both the wind and rain. If forecasts hold true, we may experience some rough weather after Monday(as of right now, the projected path passes directly over our parish, which is about 95 miles inland). Pray with us that the Lord would be pleased to give us much grace as He uses this event for our good and His glory.

Blessings
Amos

oc said...

Brother Amos,
Be assured that there are brothers and sisters in Christ right here and right now who are bowing the knee, setting aside our daily strife, and are engaged in prayer before the Almighty for you and your state's circumstances. And we are in prayer for you and yours right now.

oc said...

Bowling in the valley? I'm up for that. Going to the valley is always a mountain top experience for me.

gmommy said...

So good to hear from you Amos!
I hate the potential danger you are facing and am praying for your family!

Sorry I haven't been in touch in a while!

gmommy said...

I'm always up for a party!!!!

gmommy said...

I like the idea of McCain's running mate. She sounds good.

I wonder if this will make Hillary and her team determined to get Obama elected.
Will Hillary let this lady get closer to the Presidency than she got???

The candidate seems intelligent and energetic and ...my gosh! She gave birth to 5 children so she is TUFF!
(She didn't have 3 babies in 3 minutes but close!!!)

I just tuned in to the choice so I haven't seen her husband yet....I'm curious.

I think she has been so busy she didn't get word about hair buns...but I'm sure a stylist will get hold of her soon :)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Todd Palin

concernedSBCer said...

They are a nice looking couple. What I'm happy about is that by all accounts she is socially conservative, pro-life, and not in the "life-long Politician" mode.

I also think with a child with Downs Syndrome she will not be interested in implementing Nationalized Health Care (check it out....it hasn't worked well at all in Europe; has bankrupted the countries and lowered health care levels significantly)

I think McCain made a smart move.

Lynn said...

concernedSBCer said...

They are a nice looking couple. What I'm happy about is that by all accounts she is socially conservative, pro-life, and not in the "life-long Politician" mode.

I also think with a child with Downs Syndrome she will not be interested in implementing Nationalized Health Care (check it out....it hasn't worked well at all in Europe; has bankrupted the countries and lowered health care levels significantly)

I think McCain made a smart move.

7:37 AM, August 30, 2008


Unfortunately, I do not feel the same way. It has come out that there is an investigation pending in regards to Palin's role in the firing of a state trooper who just happened to be her former brother-in-law. Allegedly, she used her power as governor to try to get him fired after he had a messy divorce from her sister. The results of this investigation will come out just a couple days before the election. It makes me wonder just how well McCain's camp vetted its choices. If it was me, I would have gone with someone like Mitt Romney.

New BBC Open Forum said...

This story is no secret. If that's the worst thing they can dig up on her (if it's even true), then she's got a lot more going for her than any Washington insider I can think of. Look what the Clintons used their "influence" to do to people! She has taken on the good-old-boy network in Alaska politics and done a lot to clean up the government there. I agree Romney would have been a good choice, too. I also know people who wouldn't have voted for a McCain-Romney ticket because Romney is {gasp!} a Mormon.

oc said...

Excellent choice for VP, and great strategy for election. It was a very wise move.

concernedSBCer said...

Lynn: Look back on Clinton's record. He was tied to a decapatation that was ruled death by "Natural Causes." Not saying two wrongs make a right....but we don't know that whole story. He could have been abusive. He could have traded sex for favors....we just don't know yet. Please wait until the results come out before judging.

I feel sure that McCain's camp picked very carefully. While I would have liked Romney too, I am happy with this choice.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Here are the kind of comments you'll be hearing over the next couple of months. Ben Stein, longtime Republican, former Nixon speechwriter, columnist, author, actor (he played the monotone teacher in Ferris Bueller's Day Off and The Wonder Years), host of Win Ben Stein's Money, star of Clear Eyes commercials, etc. had this to say about Palin today. "I don't think she's got the heft to carry this thing off. She's a lovely woman. I just don't think she has what it takes to take this thing all the way. But she's a lovely woman." He's now saying he doesn't care who wins.

Let's say McCain had chosen Romney. And some woman said, "I don't think he's got the heft to carry this thing off. He's a handsome man. I just don't think he has what it takes to take this thing all the way. But he's a handsome man." Would that not be ridiculous?

Yesterday at work someone (a man) remarked, "How in the world is she going to be Vice President of the United States with a Down Syndrome baby at home?!" I said, "Would you be asking that if she were a man?" He said, "Uhhh... no, I guess not. You're right."

So you've got people who will vote for McCain-Palin because she's a woman, and probably about as many who won't vote for the ticket simply because there's a woman on it. In my opinion, both groups are pretty shallow and probably should stay home on November 4th.

FWIW, James Dobson and Mike Huckabee strongly endorsed McCain-Palin yesterday. Personally, that doesn't influence me one way or the other, but it might some people.

oc said...

I'm kinda excited about all this.
It seems the VP's are actually going to make a difference in the up coming election, and may actually play a part during the term of the Presidency. Previously, VP's were a non-entity. The only time you heard about them is when they made some inane proclamation that they invented the internet or if they couldn't spell the name of a vegetable.
Maybe this time it's different?

I cling to hope.

New BBC Open Forum said...

You're excited about Joe Biden? LOL! You really should get out more! Maybe some ice bowling....

allofgrace said...

I had known of Governor Palin before she got the nod for the Republican VEEP nomination. The article I read about her focused more on some of the hardships she and her family went through, but did include some on her political views. I'm not sure if it was the wisest choice as far as winning the election...nothing to do with her politics...I'm just not sure the nation is ready to elect a team with a woman, as Obama stated, a heartbeat away from the presidency. I won't debate the right or wrong of that mentality, I'm just stating a reality. I think Hillary's loss in the democratic race was evidence of that fact...then again, Obama may lose due to the fact the nation may not be quite ready to elect an African-American president either. In any event, the choice of Palin definitely makes the race more interesting.

oc said...

Yeah, I guess I should get out more. I just thought I saw contrasts that were interesting to me that I hadn't noticed in previous races, that's all.

Ice bowling...now that's right up my alley! :)

Lynn said...

concernedSBCer said...

Lynn: Look back on Clinton's record. He was tied to a decapatation that was ruled death by "Natural Causes." Not saying two wrongs make a right....but we don't know that whole story. He could have been abusive. He could have traded sex for favors....we just don't know yet. Please wait until the results come out before judging.

I feel sure that McCain's camp picked very carefully. While I would have liked Romney too, I am happy with this choice.

10:13 AM, August 30, 2008


Actually I'm not judging her. I'm just pointing out that the Democrats will use this as ammunition against McCain and Palin.


I actually like her and what she's done up in Alaska. I found it amusing that Obama and Biden have ripped her for a lack of experience despite the fact she has more executive experience than Obama, Biden, and McCain combined.

It will be interesting to see what happens in November.

Lynn said...

Additionally, I have heard a lot of people say that the selection of Palin was more of a token gesture than anything else. However, the biggest conspiracy theory going is that McCain chose Palin as a way to get the PUMAs that supported Hillary to vote for McCain instead of Obama.

oc said...

I just think that some of the logic is at least interesting. Just look at the topsy-turvy experience factor between the president/vice president nominees from each party for instance. The dems are already taking shots concerning the Republican vice president nominee
and point out the office of the vice presidency is "one heart-beat away from the presidency", while their own presidential nominee lacks the experience of their own vp nominee.
Now I am certainly no conspiracy nut. But it seems that by their own words they are basing their argument in the expectation that the next president will die in office. If I were Obama, I wouldn't be very encouraged by that argument coming from my own party.

Just sayin'.
oc.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Before anyone asks...

PUMA stands for "party unity my Aunt Fanny." Or something close.

gmommy said...

Men have so many authority issues with women...especially in the South....not to make major issues of Palin...the mother of 4 or 5 and one child with special needs.

Condi is respected but she has no children.
Hillary is respected (if that's what it's called) but she has the pit bull personality.

The excuse that Palin lacks exprience will go alot further than Obama's lack will.

And it will be an excuse.How dare such a "lovely" woman with children dare be considered for such an important office.
What an outrage!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Interesting discussion on a related topic here.

Lynn said...

I saw something yesterday where the creator of the tv show "Commander-In-Chief" ripped McCain's selection because it parallels his tv show.

Plot of his show...young woman is vice president and becomes president when the old man who is president has a stroke.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Yes, I'm sure that's where John McCain got the idea.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Current caption on FOX News:

"What does the McCain camp plan to do about Hurricane Gustav?"

Errr... what would they suggest?

bowtheknee said...

I was not interested in a McCain/Romney ticket because I don't think Romney is as conservative as he was trying to lead people to believe. He implemented some type of health care system as Governor and seemed like he wanted to do a National system as well. He also was apparently very friendly to the homosexuals in his state to the point that they LOVED him and then they got mad when he ran for President because he was basically throwing them under the bus so he could get elected. I don't think we need a President or VP who is pro homosexual "marriage." From what I'm hearing about Palin she is way more conservative than Romney. I think she's a better pick and I'm thrilled! I personally could care less if the VP is a man or a woman as long as the person is conservative. McCain is liberal enough for both of them. I'm glad he's finally seeing the light - he can't win without the conservative base.

WTL said...

qThank you for your prayers.

We have spent the last three days making preparations and having gone through this on several occasions it has become somewhat routine.

A few years ago my children were just young enough to not really worry about going through a hurricane. It seemed to them to be just a couple of weeks of extended sleepovers at friends' and family's homes.

But they are older now and are more finely tuned in to reality...not to mention the news. They have only heard in their lives the preaching of sovereign grace and the sovereignty of God, so it was not surprising today when my 8 year old son was riled and had questions as to something he had heard on TV stating that God had nothing to do with the making of hurricanes. The term 'mother nature' is quiet alien in 'our world'. He was genuinely offended at this 'slight' towards God and came to me with this 'conflict' because it was at odds with what he has been taught. It was both my duty and pleasure to not just affirm what we believe, but show him the scriptures, such as Genesis 8, Exodus 10, Numbers 11, 1st Samuel 12, 1st Kings 18,Job 5,the 36th,
48th, 78th, 135th and 147th Psalm, Isaiah 11, Jeremiah 10 and Amos 4.
Satisfied with what we had read, he went about his business for the rest of the day in his usual carefree manner.

Though it might seem that he was taught a lesson, it was quite the opposite. He is quite intelligent enough to know the looming danger, but his comfort abided in the fact that this 'danger' was of the Lord's hands, and not, that we could possibly be spared the danger. His conclusion is that if the Lord makes the wind and rain, and we are the Lord's people, then certainly we should not fear... and also that people on TV know very little of God.

Sometimes the student becomes the teacher, and I would offer that this lesson is applicable beyond issues of the weather.

Blessings,
Amos

oc said...

I thank God for the "little teachers". I've learned more pertinent information from them than from anyone else in this world. In their innocence is simple wisdom and just plain unvarnished truth, and often I long to go back there and just revel in the wonder of it all. Thanks for sharing that with us Amos.

Lynn said...

bowtheknee said...

I was not interested in a McCain/Romney ticket because I don't think Romney is as conservative as he was trying to lead people to believe. He implemented some type of health care system as Governor and seemed like he wanted to do a National system as well. He also was apparently very friendly to the homosexuals in his state to the point that they LOVED him and then they got mad when he ran for President because he was basically throwing them under the bus so he could get elected. I don't think we need a President or VP who is pro homosexual "marriage." From what I'm hearing about Palin she is way more conservative than Romney. I think she's a better pick and I'm thrilled! I personally could care less if the VP is a man or a woman as long as the person is conservative. McCain is liberal enough for both of them. I'm glad he's finally seeing the light - he can't win without the conservative base.

10:51 PM, August 30, 2008

Unfortunately, I think the Democrats will win. Could this change, yes. We need to watch and see how the GOP handles their convention this week. The last thing they need is to be seen partying it up while Gustav hits a vulnerable New Orleans. That will remind the voters of the criticism Bush took during Katrina. I have heard that the GOP may postpone their convention till it Blows over, but who knows.

gmommy said...

Amos,
It's a blessing to see our children and grandchildren naturally know how to "rest" in the Lord because of their understanding of scripture and who God is :)

BkWormGirl said...

Just as a point of record -
The Republicans MUST have the convention this week. We are only 65 days out from election, most states require that the nominee for president must be confirmed 60 days before election to be placed on a ballot. He must be declared as the candidate this week. That being said, the convention will look very different because of Gustav. It is rumored that there are several states who will declare their delegate votes via video. This will be a celebratory event, but not over the top. And I would expect to hear from every speaker their thoughts, prayers and concerns for Gustav stricken lands. I also would not be surprised if we don't hear John McCain himself ask people to serve a cause greater than themselves and get down there and help with clean up and rebuilding.

Palin is a great choice. McCain/Palin camp raised 7 million dollars in one day - the most for McCain in a single day so far. Her acceptance speech has more views than Obama's convention speech. When democrats are working this hard to discount and disqualify her - they are scared. And McCain is taking a boost in the polls. Palin will motivate republican woman who statistically vote more often then democratic women, but still are not consistent to show up at the polls. Will there be a few men who will have a problem with her as a woman - sure, but statistically republicans are better able to look at the bigger picture than democrats are. This was and is a great choice. My grandmother who has voted democrat for the past 55 years will be voting for McCain/Palin this year. I am sure she is not the only one who has switched. In any case, this election is still under God's control. And we as Christians need to continue to pray.

gmommy said...

I got an email this morning from a friend who is at the Republican convention now...so it's definitely on.
He said Fox news people are staying at the same hotel and it is heavily guarded.
I've asked him to tell me what goes on besides the things we hear in the media.

Lynn said...

gmommy said...
I got an email this morning from a friend who is at the Republican convention now...so it's definitely on.
He said Fox news people are staying at the same hotel and it is heavily guarded.
I've asked him to tell me what goes on besides the things we hear in the media.

10:54 AM, August 31, 2008

This afternoon McCain has ordered most of the opening day's festivities cancelled.

gmommy said...

Lynn,
This is what my friend wrote a few hours ago from the Republican convention.

As I write this, I am receiving information that our plans for tommorrow have changed.
John McCain has taken off his Republican hat, and put on his American hat because of the hurricane.
McCain was in Mississippi today checking on the evacuation. Obama, by contrast, was campaigning. Politics as usual.

Lynn said...

gmommy said...

Lynn,
This is what my friend wrote a few hours ago from the Republican convention.

As I write this, I am receiving information that our plans for tommorrow have changed.
John McCain has taken off his Republican hat, and put on his American hat because of the hurricane.
McCain was in Mississippi today checking on the evacuation. Obama, by contrast, was campaigning. Politics as usual.

6:10 PM, August 31, 2008

In all fairness, Obama did say he will get his supporters to raise money and supplies for them....

gmommy said...

Thanks Lynn,
I wasn't giving my opinion...
I know nothing about Obama or McCain's plans. I was just sharing info from someone attending the convention.

concernedSBCer said...

Obama is really good at talk.

Talk is cheap.

He missed more votes in the senate than he attended. Let's see action first.

New BBC Open Forum said...

THERE'S A NEW THREAD.

Bobby said...

Back to the issue on hand:

What was taking place at that church for the service? Too many churches (including one in SC where I attend, and now I'm in hot water for my comments) have decided the youth should no longer be singing but learn to dance pop tunes -- and most of them secular.

The trend is for kids to learn dancing to pop music, call it church music, with no theology or doctrine, and for that to be it.

At this rate, parents should be taking their kids to the dance studio to learn church music, not music lessons. What are we developing when kids learn only to dance to pop tunes and not sing sacred song?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Bobby,

Your comment has been copied to the new thread. Once a new thread goes up that's pretty much the end of comments on the previous one.

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