This Is Church
by Scott Wesley Brown, Dwight Liles and Niles Borop
Sunday morn, Africa, hear the children sing.
Before an altar in the bush they praise the King of Kings.
Pastor stands, prays a prayer, earth beneath his feet.
Thank You, Lord, for You are good; You bless us when we meet.
(Chorus)
This is church when we gather round to praise the Lord above.
This is church when we walk in truth
And show each other love. Not of wood or bricks and stone, but of people first;
Anywhere God’s children are, brothers this is church.
Sunday morn, Siberia, deep within the wood.
Under blue cathedral skies they read the Holy Book.
Pastor kneels and prays a prayer, sun upon his face.
Thank You, Lord, for You are good to meet us in this place.
(Chorus)
This is church when we gather round to praise the Lord above.
This is church when we walk in truth
And show each other love. Not of wood or bricks and stone, but of people first;
Anywhere God’s children are, brothers this is church.
Sunday morn, Jerusalem, many years ago,
the first believers gathered there and the Spirit flowed.
They broke the bread and prayed a prayer, met each others’ needs.
The Father saw that they were one
And His heart was pleased.
There has been some discussion lately about what the purpose of church is and I think would warrant a good discussion.
Questions:
What is the purpose of church?
1) For sinners to be saved?
2) For believers to worship God?
3) For believers to learn about God?
4) For believers to fellowship?
How often should we be in church? Is "Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night" scriptural or a fairly new tradition?
How do the SBC and Cooperative Program line up with Scripture regarding a church's responsibilities?
Is there a "better way" to "do church" than we are seeing? What should change? What should stay the same?
by Scott Wesley Brown, Dwight Liles and Niles Borop
Sunday morn, Africa, hear the children sing.
Before an altar in the bush they praise the King of Kings.
Pastor stands, prays a prayer, earth beneath his feet.
Thank You, Lord, for You are good; You bless us when we meet.
(Chorus)
This is church when we gather round to praise the Lord above.
This is church when we walk in truth
And show each other love. Not of wood or bricks and stone, but of people first;
Anywhere God’s children are, brothers this is church.
Sunday morn, Siberia, deep within the wood.
Under blue cathedral skies they read the Holy Book.
Pastor kneels and prays a prayer, sun upon his face.
Thank You, Lord, for You are good to meet us in this place.
(Chorus)
This is church when we gather round to praise the Lord above.
This is church when we walk in truth
And show each other love. Not of wood or bricks and stone, but of people first;
Anywhere God’s children are, brothers this is church.
Sunday morn, Jerusalem, many years ago,
the first believers gathered there and the Spirit flowed.
They broke the bread and prayed a prayer, met each others’ needs.
The Father saw that they were one
And His heart was pleased.
There has been some discussion lately about what the purpose of church is and I think would warrant a good discussion.
Questions:
What is the purpose of church?
1) For sinners to be saved?
2) For believers to worship God?
3) For believers to learn about God?
4) For believers to fellowship?
How often should we be in church? Is "Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night" scriptural or a fairly new tradition?
How do the SBC and Cooperative Program line up with Scripture regarding a church's responsibilities?
Is there a "better way" to "do church" than we are seeing? What should change? What should stay the same?
Thanks to "concernedsbcer" for this topic idea.
464 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 464 of 464This may be way out of place NASS, and if so, don't post it. But I have a concern. It may not make sense or may not be appropriate concerning this thread, but this has bothered me for quite a long time during my life as a believer and a teacher...
One thing I would ask of my more studious brothers and sisters in Christ... it is this... that no one would; by reason of their personal experience, knowlege, or education; accidently undermine anyone's else's faith. I at times, being convinced in what I had thought of as my biblical scholarship; (often bolstered by the commentaries and scholarship of others) may have been over confident and may have
"erred" in what I have taught. I trusted much on experience and education. And I sometimes erred in relating the intention of a Scriptural passage, and therefore may have hindered the discipleship of a brother or sister in the Lord. Even with a Bible major, including the all the requisites of Systematic Theology, Greek,
Hermeneutics, etc., (nope, no seminary,:) it still is no substitute for the Teacher. So I have learned not to stake my life on secondary and tertiary doctrine. There were times in my life that I mistook the secondary as primary, but when I realized the mistake, I did go back and tell those who I had taught, that I indeed had erred in teaching it thus so. I taught them again, best I could, under Him, and asked forgiveness from them and from the Lord.
That being confessed, I think we
should remember that those of us who have walked long with Him must remember that our siblings in Christ are often at different points regarding their discipleship. We all grow at different rates, don't we? So I say this again...please let's be careful about what we think we know, and be very careful about teaching the Word, not our understanding of it, what we like about it, our favorite parts, not what a man or an institution has told us, but what the Spirit has taught us concerning the whole Word. And let's have enough guts to admit the truth, and to be able to have integrity and humility enough to say sometimes, "I just don't know".
Someone once said,(I wish I could remember who, someone please help me out!)
"There are some things in the Bible I cannot understand, there are many things in the Bible I cannot misunderstand." As confident as we may be in any of our doctrinal or theological positions, I would remind us that not one of us knows it all. Let's be careful about what we think we know concerning secondary and tertiary matters.
Maybe we should better live and die on the things we cannot misunderstand, and give grace on those we don't.
And sometimes what we think we know may get in the way the Relationship.
Boy I'm rambling again.
Sorry.
oc.
Going back to a post on the previous page.....
I do think the gospel is simple to start.....simple enough for a child to believe.
Then I think as believers we delve deeper and deeper into the Word and grow to desire "the Mind of Christ."
If you really think about it, what Jesus said was as simple and straightforward as it could be: Matt 22 "37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
I realize this question was trying to trick Jesus (how ridiculous is that!) but I still think Jesus made it understandable and real for everyone with His reply.
If EVERYONE followed these two verses, well, we wouldn't be having a discussion about what church should be and how we need to teach, and how our children are not being protected.
concerned,
Just to follow up, I know that we're saying the same thing but I want to be very clear about what I mean. As OC pointed out, some people might not have understood this just yet.
If we love our neighbor exactly as much as we love ourselves, that's not the way that Jesus loves us and it's not nearly enough to build the church on.
If we care for ourselves equally as much as we care for others we'll inevitably feel that our interests are equally as important as theirs or perhaps more so.
Paul taught that Christians are to humbly consider others better than themselves and THEN to look to our interests and theirs. There's no other way to actually put the interests of others ahead of our own without the servant-hearted agape love of God.
And sometimes those interests involve things that are difficult. I don't really object to watchman's posts, but when he assumed PK was a disciple of Guy Ballard he was simply wrong. And he won't admit his mistake. Instead he's trying to assert that the roots of her teaching are the same as Ballard's cult so there's no need to 'fess up.
I may be wrong, but I believe it's in his best interest to realize that he made a mistake. If not a public admission on the blog, at least to himself.
Faith: I understand what you are saying about loving others, but it must be taken in order. First comes first. By loving God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, that other scenerio probably wouldn't play out because priorities would be in order.
To quote someone (who I'm not a fan of) "It's not about us."
It's about Him.
I think if Nass thinks it's necessary for a blog public apology from Watchman, she will ask for it.
..."Paul taught that Christians are to humbly consider others better than themselves and THEN to look to our interests and theirs."
The only person we can control is ourselves.
Watchman comes and goes and shares what he feels he needs to.
HP,
you have shared your thoughts and opinions to and about those who post here as you feel you need to.
Why is it necessary for you to expect any more than that?
You criticized Nass, Lin,and others as if you were stating facts rather than just your opinions.
Now you want a public apology for someone possibly doing exactly what you did.
Maybe it's time to humbly consider others better than yourself.
Well, I have to be honest. I'm kinda disappointed. For over 400 comments we have asked the question...what is church?
And I'm not sure I know anymore now than what I knew 400 comments ago. It may just be me.
I still don't know what church is. What do we expect?
But in the meantime, since we can't quite seem to get to that answer, maybe what about another question....this...who is church for? I do know this for a fact, there are some people who think they are doing God a big favor by just showing up to a "worship service".
Now what do ya'll think?
...who is church for?
For believers to worship God and learn and fellowship with other believers.
That's what I think. :)
PS Not to correct you or anything OC, but plural for y'all is "all y'all."
:)
Concernedsbcer....
Lol!!! 'Scuse me my sister. But ya'll need to learn by the real "ya'll" etiquette, which is only authorized and legitimized by the registered and genuinized, legitimized and homogenized, pasteurized and somewhat ostrasized... that being us Texans. Ya'll stole it from us, and although you wanted to be us, that's just not enough of an excuse, so it's not legit. So go ahead and admit it and repent. :)
oc.
Well, I hate to be the one to straighten all y'all out, but what's with putting the apostrophe after the "a?" Every good southerner knows that "y'all" is a contraction of "you all," so put the apostrophe after the "y."
Y'all don't want me getting my yard stick after ye, now.
Hey OC,
I'm tired. Do some homework for me, will ya? Check this out and tell me what you think:
The Church: The Who and the Why
I didn't steal nuthin' but I 'spect I can hang more syllables on that word than y'all can!
Now then, here's something for everyone:
Amazing Grace: Just the Black Notes!
How sweet the sound! This is a wonderful video of an amazing song. The comments address the historical inaccuracies, but the song itself IS amazing!
Be blessed by a song with more than 7 words! :oD
Cakes, come on man.
Apostrophe? Dude, I done thunk that was a biblical doctrine!
I was fixin' to fight about it!
What is it, and do you think you have a big enough stick to protect it from this Baptist? :)
oc.
Lizzie,
Tomorrow, OK?
I'm so very tired too sister.
PS my friend. I have always loved your spirit. Please keep it so sustained in the Lord, because it is very encouraging and so very soul winning.
You are a quite the Barnabas.
Just sayin'.
oc.
OC, Are you calling me Barney? Thanks, my brother!
If anybody finds anything alarming on the website I posted, PLEASE let me know. I have strong reservations about the Reformed idea that God chose in advance(not just knew) who would be saved. Doesn't that mean He also chose who would NOT be saved, and we should be thrilled when they go to hell because they've done His will? But that's another thread...
From The Church: The Who and the Why:
....out of sinful humanity God in Christ redeems for Himself a called-out people (the “church”) who will be under His mercy, will be His people and His ambassadors, will reflect His holiness, will preach the whole counsel of God (in particular the good news of the kingdom of God in Christ), will administer His sacraments (which are physical parables or word pictures to teach us more about the gospel), and will exercise His discipline.
_____________________________________
If we started out by asking "Who" instead of "What", maybe this could be an answer to the question that started this whole thread:
Who Is the Church?
If Christ is the foundational Cornerstone, then the church is His temple.
If Christ is the Savior, then the church is the saved.
If Christ is the sanctifier, then the church is the sanctified.
If Christ is the head, then we are His body
(Eph. 1:22-23; 3:6; 4:4, 16; 5:23, 30)
What Does the Church Do?
So what is the church - the saved, sanctified body/temple of Christ - to do?
Our fundamental job description is to submit to Christ (Eph. 5:24).
We are to be imitators of God (Eph. 5:1), which more specifically means following Christ’s path of walking in love (Eph. 5:2).
We are to submit to Christ (Eph. 5:24)
and to grow in Him (Eph. 2:21-22; 4:15).
Conclusion
If you love Christ, you will love His word. If you love Christ’s word, you will love His church. We dare not mock or treat as dispensable that for which Christ died. As the church, we are the bride of Christ. Let us labor, therefore, to make it our own, since Christ Himself has made us His own (Phil. 3:12).
_____________________________________
So, perhaps the next question needs to be, How do we make the church our own?
Blog friends today I had a conversation with a friend which left me a little speechless. I would love some thoughts.
I went to lunch today with a friend who moved away from Memphis about 7 years ago. She was back in town - really just passing through. She attended a prominent SBC church here when she lived here. If asked to describe her, I would say she is a devout Christian. We talk often on the phone, and email at least daily, never without challenging each other in our walk, and always sharing what God has shown us. I felt we were "of the same mind" in most everything. Especially in those things that matter.
I knew that the ministry she had been serving in, within her local church, was becoming very tiring to her. So I asked her if God had led her to a new ministry, or was God leading her to take a break, or whatever? Really just trying to catch up, as the last couple months have been very stressful for us both.
She said, I think I am going to leave the church. I thought she meant the church she had been attending. So I said, sometimes God leads us from one church to another - do you have any idea where you are going to go. And she said, no I am leaving the church.
So I asked her to tell me what was leading her to that point. And she began to list so many of the things that we have talked about here. Pastors with no accountability, churches being run like a business, so little in depth study of scripture, morally lacking leadership, and then she said the thing that blew me away. She said, despite everything I just said, the thing that I can't stand any more is the fighting among those who claim to be the children of God. We have reduced God to being impotent. He doesn't need to convict anyone, we do it for Him. We argue just to argue about what this verse means and what that verse means. And what this person meant when they said this or what that person meant when he said that. She said, why would anyone want to become a Christian? To become like us? I hardly think so.
I can't say I totally disagree with her. I too am beyond sick of the fighting. Just because God leads one person to worship in one way, or study in one way, or whatever, doesn't mean that it is the only way for every person to behave. There are some things which are NEVER going to be OK, but it does seem that "Christians" love to fight about everything lately.
However, that all being said, it is also wrong to just give up and let the milk delivery program take over the church so that no one is offended.
So - where do we draw the line? What is worth "fighting" about? When does the "fight for righteousness" become the thing that is turning people away and negatively impacting the Kingdom of God? Any thoughts?
Thanks,
BWG
Great Post on Angie Luce's blog today entitled "Beyond the Margins." It fits in to what we have been talking about and the poibt you have made Bkwm girl.
http://poppyjoy.blogspot.com/
Bkwm Girl: I'm digesting your post. I think it brings up a great point, several in fact.
I think differences in worship/interpretations are why we have different denominations.
That being said, I think the main thing is the main thing. Have members asked for forgiveness of sins and is Jesus Christ now Lord and Savior of his/her life?
That is the bottom line.
You and I worship differently. That doesn't necessarily mean one way to worship is superior to another. All ways don't have to be worshipped in the same church, though. It's okay to have traditional and contemporary as long as the main thing is there. And as long as respect for each way is there too. I have 4 children, all brought up in a SBC church, attending Sunday am, pm, and Wednesday night. Children's Choir, Bible Drill, Puppet Team, Youth group, handbells......we were always there. We did Bible as part of our curriculum every year, studying through Kay Arthur's precepts, in depth Bible Study. All my children are Believers; I have no doubt. However, now that they have grown up, each has actively sought a denomination fitting their worship and belief style. I have an Orthodox, Lutheran, Non-denominational, and Southern Baptist. Can you say, "what???" Seriously, I know each is a Christian and actively seeks to grow in their walk as believers.
I am tired of churches being the first to shoot their wounded.
BWG,
I was saddened to read your post but not at all surprised. I have conversations just like this one with several close friends 2-3 times a week! We are still rehashing the same questions and trying to discern what the Bible actually means when it says we are not to forsake the assembling of ourselves. Tn Lizzie has church at home with her family and I have a feeling there is very little disagreement at her house over verses or passages of Scripture. My husband and I rarely argue about anything but just discussing church has a way of tearing us apart. I think Satan is enjoying all the fussing and fighting. I too am sick of all the things you listed. So are my friends. We are no longer getting from the Baptist churches whatever it is we are looking for. I guess what we are really looking for is the return of Christ. I love the Church but I do not like going to church anymore. I used to look so forward to Wednesdays and Sundays but those days have ended. I don't think any of us want to focus on "worship styles" but when whatever is going on prior to the sermon and in some cases after the sermon is so distracting, it is hard NOT to focus on it. I have searched my heart about this continually since our church was ripped away from us. I do not want to do anything that is displeasing to God so I continue to go on Sundays (we joined a different SB church) but when I get there I ask myself if this is really God's plan for me? If the SBC were REALLY worried about lagging church membership (or maybe why the rolls are full but the seats are not) they would quit shoving stuff down our throats that is just not palatable to a lot of us. I know 3 of Concerned's 4 kids. They are extremely intelligent. There is a reason 3 out of the 4 have left the SB churches. They are looking for what many of us are looking for: reverant worship and indepth Bible study. I don't know about the rest of you but if I visit a church with a fill in the blank sermon sheet, I only visit once. We had an associate pastor come in who everyone is absolutely ga ga over and the first thing he did was start up with the fill in the blank sheets. I am not a five year old. I like to take notes. It is who I am. Fill in the blanks just isn't getting it. He did a sermon series on Sunday nights on one of my very favorite books of the Bible. He skewed it in a direction that made me sick. We listened to one sermon, my husband started asking me where he was getting his info from and we decided we didn't want to hear him preach anymore. It is a really sad state of affairs. I'm kind of like OC. I was hoping we would get some answers from this thread but it seems like all we are getting is more questions.
BTW, did ya;ll know that a guy is suing the publishers of The Bible because the bible classifies homosexuality as a sin?
bowtheknee,
I hate to say it, but we really are having the biggest time "doing church at home." We like to think of it as Home Discipleship. We have 3 kids (13, 9 and almost 5) and we sit at the dining room table with our CD player, hymnals and Bibles (different translations too!)
We started off with the book of John. Dh read to us or assigned passages to those of us who can read, we discussed it, we asked questions. We worked puzzles, we had communion, we brought stuffed animal lambs to church with us, we colored, we memorized verses, we played children's hand bells, and we sang. We both made a joyful noise and made a noise joyfully, sometimes simultaneously!
Now, we're using the Bible Study Guide for All Ages. I bought some workbooks for the kids to use for "Sunday School" while I fix lunch. There are some awesome corresponding Adult Lessons on-line! This Sunday we should be on Lesson 19, and study about the writing on the wall!
We miss being around older adults, the kids miss their friends, and some more singers would be nice, but God is blessing our little family tremendously. The kids are growing in knowledge and wisdom, and the youngest makes comments that are just priceless:
She asked when she was going to die. I told her that she would die when it was God's plan for her to stop living here and for her to go to heaven. She pondered that for a minute, and then said, "I'm glad we don't have to die on our cross we carry. Jesus will just reach His hand down, grab mine, and toss me into His big ole house!"
~ snort ~
Methinks she's been listening to her Daddy... and to her big sister's CDs! LOL
Would you and S like to come visit us some Sunday? We have an awesome Fellowship Lunch after Church. :o) E-mail me, sweetie!
BTKNEE,
Sad to report that even the conservative Presbyterian church I visit has the 1st grade fill in the blank sheets.
I don't think they order from Lifeway but someone is selling this junk to the churches.
I remember when my son asked if he were old enough to get a note taking book (he actually asked if he were old enough to get a "margin" but that's what he meant)
He wanted to take notes and we still have that little notebook. Those lame sheets get thrown in the garbage.
So, everybody's doing the cheat sheets; back in the day you took notes.
Take it for what it's worth, but when our Sangha became splintered, some of us took solace in meeting at folks houses. I still meet with a small group; it is not ideal, but you make the best of what you have today.
Where in the Bible does it say that we gotta have a million dollar building to meet in? Where in the Bible do we get our "order of worship"? If anyone can show me, from Scripture, some kinda formula for worship...where do I go, how do I do it, what time does it happen, what should happen when I get there, what should I be doing in other believers lives...what should they be doing in mine... well, please show it to me.
And please... DO NOT give me any Lifeway doo doo.
Hey Barney. Fellowship Lunch?
My stomach is growling... and my spirit is willing :)
oc.
The intelligent young people aren't afraid to think out of the "Baptist box" .... thinking of CSBCer's kids and tons of my daughter's friends who left BBC and Baptists after High School or College.
Some of us think we had some kind of utopia at BBC under Bro R or we have some kind of fear based issues with some things from other denominations so we won't even give other churches a try.
Some of "US" have gotten lazy about not going to any church.
One of my daughter's best friends in H.S. met with other home church families but chose a church where the kids did activities.
Not trying to sound like Watchman (no disrepect intended)
but there may come a time when we don't have any feasible choices so we all (myself included)need to be creative and open minded
(not so much that or brains fall out!)
and find a way to meet together and study and have corporate worship and fellowship.
And when that fails....we have our
internet.
like OC said...where is it written that we have to have a Lisa Parker solo, a choir or praise team, an "authority figure star" preacher,(who thinks the Bible is a guide line) MAJOR missionary projects,( PLENTY to do in plain sight of all of us!, Prayer WALKS, big buildings......
could we really put aside our pride, egos, and pre conceived ideas of "church" and sweetly, corporately worship together in a park like setting like some of us talked about over a year or 2 ago....maybe once just to try ??????
I THINK there are still enough
"refugees" out there to try something.
"I'm glad we don't have to die on our cross we carry. Jesus will just reach His hand down, grab mine, and toss me into His big ole house!"
Oh, that brought a tear to my eye, actually, more than one.
That is priceless!!!!!
oc.
GMommy: You make an excellent point. Several, in fact. :)
Thanks.
Gmommy said,
"The intelligent young people aren't afraid to think out of the "Baptist box" .... thinking of CSBCer's kids and tons of my daughter's friends who left BBC and Baptists after High School or College.
Some of us think we had some kind of utopia at BBC under Bro R or we have some kind of fear based issues with some things from other denominations so we won't even give other churches a try."
Gmommy, I think you just hit the nail on the head right there. In just about every church I have ever been in, I have never really felt like I fit in. I think a lot of the reason I don't fit in is because well....I'm no drone. I think for myself and if people think I'm nuts because I am not afraid to listen to the hard rock music (such as AC/DC) whereas they listen to the garbage on K-Love.
I started visiting other churches that is near me a few weeks ago. Things are ok, but there have been things that make me go hmmmmm in regards to whats going on. At times I feel like my time is much better spent on Sunday mornings in a bowling alley than church.
Gmommy, yeah. You said it all
Thank you.
oc.
JUST To Clarify ....
I feel confident that no one I was actually in the discussion with would separate a section of my post from all the rest and misuse it... but that's what has been done on the Bblog.
John Mark said:
“... sol, did you see this from the other blog?
like OC said...where is it written that we have to have a Lisa Parker solo, a choir or praise team, an "authority figure star" preacher,(who thinks the Bible is a guide line) MAJOR missionary projects,( PLENTY to do in plain sight of all of us!, Prayer WALKS, big buildings...
...Are you together with the person who wrote that slam on her?"
Sol replied:
"OC isn't a Bellevue member, and it's unlikely he knows who Lisa Parker is. Someone is obviously trying to put words in his mouth.."
THAT"S RIGHT!!!! The SOMEONE is not on THIS blog.
OC knows I was referring to concepts we have been discussing...nothing about Lisa Parker!
Lisa was actually one of my very favorite singers at BBC. That's why I used her as an example.
Substitute the name of ANY frequent soloist at BBC -- I wasn't saying anything negative about the soloists themselves.
I was saying that I'm not sure we have to have soloists at all, or a choir or praise team,... big buildings, etc.
"to be a "church".
(JM left those last few words off my statement,of course)
OUR DISCSSION TOPIC IS CHURCH in general.
Then larry emails Sol and Sol replies to Larry on the blog:
"larry,
I don't care who the person who's smearing Lisa's name is, it's wrong. No matter what her issues with Bellevue are, there's no justification for dragging a godly person's name through the mud without reason.
Perhaps gmommy should ask Lisa to have lunch to discuss her concerns."
WHAT CONCERNS??
IT SEEMS TO BE FINE FOR THOSE on the Bblog TO DRAG A PERSON THRU THE MUD FOR NO REASON,however.
Sol:"Lisa Parker's reputation is spotless, and anyone who insinuates otherwise is suspect."
Gosh, it's not like I accused Lisa of making death threats.
Not like I implied I knew something bad about her then when I was called out by Mary to tell the truth, I said I may have confused her with someone else....
Which is exactly what Bratton did about me personally.
John Mark, Mike, Sol,
TRY AND READ THE WORDS ACTUALLY WRITTEN.
I DO KNOW Lisa Parker personally. She is my favorite singer.
I have NOTHING negative to say or imply about Lisa Parker. She has never been anything but kind to me or my children.
If I want to go to lunch with Lisa, I have her phone # and email...so I don't need Mike to contact her for me.
(are you having fun yet,JM?)
THEN MIKE appears:
"Is the "New" "BBC" "Open" "Forum" still even operating? Apparently, yes! Let me take a look and see what's being said about that dear friend of our family, Lisa Parker."
"5) Ah, it's just a passing shot from someone who steadfastly refuses to sign her (presumably, the author is female) name to her remarks. Interesting, though, the observations about ego and corporate worship. Does it not strike anyone as egotistical to say "The way you worship God is wrong; here, follow me and I will show you what I think is a better way to worship!"?"
Just where did I write what Mike put in quotation marks that I wrote?????
That's worse than the so called insinuation you accuse me of...that quote is completely fabricated by Mike.
FOR THE RECORD Mike,
I was referring to OUR pride...as in we, the friends on this blog who meet together, study together, and minister to each other.
Had NOTHING to do with YOUR pride or YOUR worship, OR BBC's worship.
The discussion had NOTHING to do with YOU at all.
Had I or anyone here FABRICATED a quote as you did about me ....you would be the first to DEMAND repentance and an apology.
MIKE CONTINUES:
"6) For the record, OC, Lisa is a sister in Christ, and a friend (along with the rest of her family) of our family."
(WOW Mike, should I ask for your autograph?)
"She's perhaps the most diversely talented person I've ever met, but at the same time has a servant's heart. Talent and humility are a tough blend."
Mike,
I am in agreement with you on this one statement.
MIKE CONTINUES:
"7) For those of you who participate at the Forum, ask the author of that dreck about Lisa to e-mail me."
I'll provide him/her with Lisa's e-mail address, so he/she can either put up, or (hopefully) hush. Now, I know that communicating with me would require stepping out of the shadows, but hope springs eternal..."
--Mike
Mike,
I have no need to email you for Lisa's contact info.
I have NOTHING to put up or hush about.
I have no interest or any need to communicate with you.
Communication requires listening, hearing, and showing some level of respect for what the other person actually says.
THEN MEMPHIS SAYS:
"Mike, I am sorry that your blog always gets caught up in the BBC vs anti BBC crowds."
There was no reason for the Bblog to "get caught up" in our discussion. It was not about them. It was not to them.
It had nothing at all to do with what JM, Sol, or Mike INSINUATED or said.
BUT John Mark is having a great time ROTFL.
Blog friends,
I apologize for interrupting our discussion. Many of you are scratching your heads....wondering who these people are anyway.
Those who are familiar with the names wonder why I would bother to copy and paste their posts when they will find a way to ignore or misconstrue whatever I say....and make up things I did not say.
Guess I will go back into "the shadows" :)
Sounds like business as usual over there. Let's leave it there.
I think this was the question:
Is it a necessary part of being a "church" to have any soloists, a choir or praise team, an "authority figure star" preacher, MAJOR missionary projects when there's PLENTY to do in plain sight of all of us, prayer WALKS, big buildings, traveling carnivals, "women's ministry" speakers dressing up in silly costumes, hunting extravaganzas, professional fireworks shows costing thousands of dollars, or "family pizza nights" costing thousands more? While I like choirs and (some) soloists, to me the answer to all the rest is obvious. There's way too much emphasis on being entertained.
A new poster with the screen name "tom" just left this comment on an old thread. I'm reprinting it here for anyone who's interested.
tom said...
There is an excellent video on google that exposes the "seeker" agenda that the leadership at Bellevue have begun using as well as other churches throughout the SBC, our church here has voted to implement it and we have left, no hard feelings or ill will but we can not be part of something that is clearly not scriptural and apostate. Rather than the Church influencing the world, the world is now influencing it. The video is excellent, it is presented in its entirety, just over 2 hours and 43 minutes but well worth the time, it exposes what the seeker agenda is up to and uses the scriptures to expose its apostasy.
Link
3:43 PM, July 13, 2008
Tony Snow was a real man. I miss him already.
oc.
I agree. I always liked him.
Interesting article by Kelly Boggs on Jesse Jackson's latest faux pas touches on leadership integrity or the lack thereof.
Lizzie: Thanks for the Wintley Phipps/Amazing Grace link. He's been one of my favorites since I heard him on Savior.
all2jesus said...
Interesting article by Kelly Boggs on Jesse Jackson's latest faux pas touches on leadership integrity or the lack thereof.
Quote from the article:
"Charge it [the racial remark] to my head ... not my heart," Jackson said.
So that's where that saying comes from!!
Junk,
That's interesting because I just now read that same remark on another blog I had never seen before...so did SG get that started?? :)
Hey ya'll
Just checking in..everyone doing ok?
I sure love my sweet friend Cakes.
Just sayin...(out loud) :)
Hey SOTL!
Hope you are dancing thru the summer!
I went and visited another church yesterday and well, I'm not sure if its just a case of immature college brats or what, but I visited the class, sat down, and no one, not even the sunday school teacher said ONE WORD to me for 30 minutes. Let me repeat that, they virtually ignored me, even the teacher!!!!!!! It was like I was completely non-existant.
Needless to say I won't be back to that church for a loooooong time.
Cakes....
Are you checking your email?????
Lynn,
I visited a singles SS class many moons ago and I sat alone and only the door person said Hi...it happens...everyone is uncomfortable.
Was the teaching any good???? Did you go to the service?
Did any of you see the worship dance at Appling Baptist this past Sunday?
You can check it out on the BBC web site under archives (7/13/2008 AM).
Apparently Steve missed it, as a sighting has been reported of him attending another local church that day.
Perhaps he is “church-hopping” now like so many other former Bellevue members.
I'm confused. Can't find it, gopher.
gmommy of the "RRR" said...
Lynn,
I visited a singles SS class many moons ago and I sat alone and only the door person said Hi...it happens...everyone is uncomfortable.
Was the teaching any good???? Did you go to the service?
12:11 AM, July 15, 2008
I was too bothered by the icy reception I got to even waste my time attending the service. And thats saying something since my sister and neice attend this church lol
Go to Bellevue's website and in the black box labeled "Watch & Listen" click on "Video/Audio Archives." You have to create an account (with 316Networks, not Bellevue) and sign in. Then you'll see a list of archived programs. The July 13th AM service is the one to which "gopher" is referring and is currently first on the list. The dancing starts with the choir number right after the baptismal service. It's like watching So You Think You Can Dance! Definitely what (to me) "church" is not.
Stay tuned for a few minutes after that, and after Steve Marcum talks a while, he introduces the "Incredible Pizza" video where you can watch David Coombs zipping around in a go cart, challenging Steve Gaines to a race and promising to make him "eat my rubber!" Wonder how that turned out.
gopher and others,
This may be a first...
I'm speechless.
Aye Yi Yi.....
They might as well put Rhinomullets on the musicians and sing "Sweet Home Alabama" like this....
Leningrad Cowboys and the Red Army Choir sings Skynyrd
Seriously though folks....
In all fairness, I think they did stuff like that dance on occasion when Dr. Rogers was pastor too. I could be wrong though.
Who is doing the choreography now?
what was the goal of this in a church service?
They have trained musicians...why not get trained dancers if they were going to dance in a church service??
Is anyone left who has taste?
I hope someone was moved by this performance.
If someone was moved....what were they moved by or to???
I'm going to look at the bright side of this.
Opinions expressed concerning this tastless "form" of "corporate worship" will give some very bored people a new subject to tattle on and new material to stir up unfounded accusations about.
Let's see...what will be pulled out of context and lied about???WHO will be the target next?
It's all just sad.
"If someone was moved....what were they moved by or to???"
If I had been there, I would have been moved to leave.
"Let's see...what will be pulled out of context and lied about???WHO will be the target next?"
Who cares?
" Appling Baptist"
* snort *
I love my sweet blog friends :)
Where is CSBCer and Ox??
Hi Gmommy of the "rrr"!! I'm still around, just dealing with family issues. If you have a few moments, this video may be worth checking out. It is not directly religious in nature, but I wasn't fully aware of this issue and I think it is important. Thanks.
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4826897
"In all fairness, I think they did stuff like that dance on occasion when Dr. Rogers was pastor too. I could be wrong though."
You are wrong.
"If the SBC were REALLY worried about lagging church membership (or maybe why the rolls are full but the seats are not) they would quit shoving stuff down our throats that is just not palatable to a lot of us."
Exactly! Their tactics are failing and they refuse to see it.
Sorry, but no visible profile, no comment.
Just sayin'...
THERE'S A NEW THREAD FOR ANYONE WHO'S INTERESTED. PLEASE MOVE UP!
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