This week Bellevue deacons, some members of the choir, members of Joe Jernigan's class, and perhaps others received this anonymous letter.While I think if you're going to send a letter to someone by mail you should have the courage to sign your name, that's really not the issue here. I have no idea at all who wrote it. I can't even guess based upon the writing style, and besides, it's likely someone I don't know. But instead of criticizing the author for not signing his or her name or for sending it in the first place, why not critique the content of the letter itself? As someone so appropriately pointed out, we don't know who wrote the book of Hebrews either, but that doesn't diminish the value of what it says.
The sermon archives can be accessed here.
800 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 800"So, he may have correct doctrine but as Jesus said about the Pharisees, Do what they SAY, not what they DO."
Oops, padeo-Baptism is not correct doctrine. I meant to add an exception in there...
“Now, I know that someday I am going to come to what some people will say is the end of this life. They will probably put me in a box and roll me right down here in front of the church, and some people will gather around, and a few people will cry. But I have told them not to do that because I don’t want them to cry. I want them to begin the service with the Doxology and end with the Hallelujah chorus, because I am not going to be there, and I am not going to be dead. I will be more alive than I have ever been in my life, and I will be looking down upon you poor people who are still in the land of dying and have not yet joined me in the land of the living. And I will be alive forevermore, in greater health and vitality and joy than ever, ever, I or anyone has known before.”
D. James Kennedy, Ph.D.
1930 -- 2007
Amen! He will be greatly missed for he was greatly loved and appreciated.
Mary
billie said...
I've yet to hear one blogger say that they have committed one sin and I have a problem with that.
Have any of us claimed to have never committed one sin? The answer is NO. It goes without saying.
This is ridiculous, even for you. Or maybe not. I guess it's quite typical of you.
But then again, only SG walks on water in your eyes.
Another giants voice is silent. D James Kennedy Coral Ridge Minestries is gone to be with the Lord. Please pray for his Family and the Church.AMEN
Housewife,
Whoooo Hoooo
You go girl!!!
My son has made the statement that it seems as if many of God's men are being called home.
Makes one wonder....
Lin,
My references to RC Sproul and Ligon Duncan were in the context of conservative vs. liberal Presbyterian denominations. I personally know nothing about Duncan's brother, and if I did I won't judge Ligon by his brother. Same for RC Junior...he was defrocked by the RPCNA. Both Sproul and Duncan are conservatives. I'm not paedobaptist either, but I don't write off every paedobaptist as being unworthy to listen to.
Mrs. Billie
I wanted to respond to your post and clarify for you and anyone who may have misunderstood the simplistic post I made earlier. I'm merely holding up a reference from the Apostle Paul (via John MacArthur). I posted the quote and a link because I believe it's critical that we all get a handle on correctly identifying and dealing with "deluded pretenders" that are slithering into our churches and lives. The posted quote, made by JM, is without, I suspect, any particular or "certain" target in mind.
Your assumptions of my intent are understandable but incorrect. I intended a wide application not a narrow one. The quote (and sermon) is a good standard by which we can evaluate ourselves or others. Who you choose to compare it to is up to you.
Ms. Billie, I respectfully ask that you calm down and consider getting alone with the Lord Jesus. Please put everyone and everything out of your mind except Him. Dig into His Word - listen only to Him. Many here on the blog will be praying for you.
Ms. Billie said
"Andrew said...
John MacArthur part 2
"You see, the false teachers wanted to make Christianity more popular, less demanding, less distinct, less narrow, less offensive, less different, less exclusive so they'd get more people in on it, so they could get more money, which is always what false teachers want...
11:20 PM, September
Billie writes:
BBC Open Forum asked me to explain what I was talking about in a previous post regarding, "painting pictures" I selected the above post but I could have chosen every post which claims Dr. Rogers as their hero or those that claim Dr. Gaines is a false prophet (teacher). Please read the following very closely:..."
Billie wrote:
"Anyone who clicks on www.info@integritydoescount can easily see the "Seperate" websites who have joined forces (organized) supporting one another."
What a bunch of Bill Loney! If you've ever bothered to look, I've got links to Bellevue Baptist Church, Love Worth Finding, Saving Bellevue, IDC, and over a dozen other links on the front page of this blog. It certainly doesn't mean I've "joined forces" with any of the people who own/run/moderate any of them. In fact, in most cases, I don't even know who's behind them. I've posted links to sites I think are interesting or timely. Period. I suspect the person(s) who constructed the IDC website were doing the same. I can assure you that no one has ever asked my permission to post a link to this blog on their site, and I don't expect them to. So please just put that stupid notion to rest.
"I've yet to hear one blogger say that they have committed one sin and I have a problem with that."
Well, shoot. I've never said I was the 1984 tap dancing champion of Minnesota either! Seriously, my dear lady, all I can say is you obviously haven't been reading much because I don't know of a single one of us who claims to be without sin. For the record, you can put me at the top of the "sin list." Not that you haven't already... but that's not the point, is it?
You really should consider giving that key back now. Your ramblings are making less sense than ever.
allofgrace said...
Within any structured denomination you will find both conservative and liberal churches. The PCA is on the whole a conservative denomination. It, along with the OPC (orthodox presbyterian church) were formed from a break-off from the PCUSA, when it began it's liberal slide. Just a couple of names from the PCA...RC Sproul, and Ligon Duncan, pastor of 1st Pres. in Jackson, MS. Google the name Greshem Machen, the founder of the OPC...he was a stalwart defender of conservative Christianity.
............
You know, I may have mixed up the initials of the Presbyterian group that the Evangelical Pres. split from. I wasn't a Pres. then, so I could easily have made a mistake in the name of the liberal group. I am sorry if that happened.
My Evang. Pres. church for quite a few years was a very good church with excellent, Bible-based sermons, wonderful music etc. Then a new pastor came in several years ago. Sloooowly, things began to change . . . as Ima says: the slow boil method. When he abruptly fired the music director recently, things came to a head and many were outraged. Well, you all know the progression. Amazing as how the steps are so similar in the decline of these churches.
Thanks for all your encouragement.
Billie said in part:
"Lynn and NASS,
Anyone who clicks on www.info@integritydoescount can easily see the "Seperate" websites who have joined forces (organized) supporting one another. Maybe Lynn's great great 1 year old nephew can help you understand."
And I say:
What I see, (since we are talking in pictures) is a three legged stool, (IDC, SVG BBC, NBBCOF) for truth to sit on.
Go there in your mind with that.
Click!
Andrew said:
"Ms. Billie, I respectfully ask that you calm down and consider getting alone with the Lord Jesus. Please put everyone and everything out of your mind except Him. Dig into His Word - listen only to Him. Many here on the blog will be praying for you."
Thanks Andrew!
Ms. Billie, I for one concur with Andrew and as one, will agree to get clean before Jesus and intercede for you, praying the word of God beginning in Phil. 1:9-11 and going through 2 Thes. 2:16, 3:5 and 5:16. May the Lord Jesus be exalted.
Padroc
padroc wrote:
"What I see, (since we are talking in pictures) is a three legged stool, (IDC, SVG BBC, NBBCOF) for truth to sit on.
"Go there in your mind with that."
You're not helping much, padroc! Now she's going to say, "See, padroc just confirmed you fokes are all working together to murder Brother Steve." Of course, that would be Bill Loney, too.
mary:
D. James Kennedy, Ph.D.
1930 -- 2007
Amen! He will be greatly missed for he was greatly loved and appreciated.
Mary
I pray that each of us (starting with me) would be as true to our convictions as Dr. Kennedy. I didn't agree with 100% of what he believed, but I admired 100% of the way he stood for those beliefs.
allofgrace said...
“Is there some magic in laying hands on someone? The only place in Scripture that I'm aware of that commands laying on of hands is in the matter of ordination to gospel ministry, and with that comes a warning to lay hands on no man quickly.”.......
AOG,
From all I have read and studied, "magic" is most often the only thing performed with the laying on of hands or a reaching out and touching someone. In order for you or me to accomplish anything with or through our hands we would have to believe that there is some kind of energy or force which we controlled and directed which could be imparted to another through the laying on of our hands. This would be like believing that the strength and power of God, I experience as a Christian, could be transferred to another person, somewhat like a blood transfusion. Does this sound good to anyone? You should discern the work of the devil in this and as Christians we are instructed “and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.” Ephesians 5:11.
I wish I had my old computer up and running which has a list of books, one of which is by John MacArthur, describing in detail the attributes of Satan and the powers he wields and how he distributes and delivers his demonic “tentacles” into the minds of the gullible and unsuspecting individuals who are supposedly seeking a touch from God and instead receive a touch from a god. The charismatic movement has been the fertile “feeding ground” for much of this heresy.
My hope is that everyone reading this explanation is realizing that all divine power is with God and He does not dole or loan any of His power to the likes of us. Not one of us will ever have the power of Almighty God at our disposal. BUT, there are those who have considerable and even impressive power at their disposal provided by the one who masquerades as an angel if light, Satan. Search the scriptures. Abide only in Christ. Forsake your own understandings. “Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths.” Proverbs 3:5, 6. Unfortunately, there are many deceived teachers of God’s Holy word who are popularizing false doctrines in the name of our Savior Jesus. We have been warned to examine the scriptures and measure the words of those who profess to speak for God, against the whole counsel of the word of God. Check out Acts 17:11. I am a “Thus says the Lord” advocate.
Many of the Christian authors I have read on this subject do believe, and some have given personal testimony of seeing the real power of Satan manifested in the lives of people. This power, although not all powerful is impressive and commanding and even appears as a miracle working power as if it would be of Almighty God. The key operative word is masquerades. Jesus warned about those seeking signs and wonders…. Choose you this day who you will serve.
I do not resist a hand shake or a hug but I will saturate any place with my absence should someone there intend to do something for me or to me with the laying on of hands. Just for the record; I’m not hyper about this, but I am convinced of the danger which I may expose my self to unknowingly.
This is the one time when I would agree with, “Touch not my anointed”.
And to make this post back on topic, I reread much of the anonymous letter and I think that some of you “closet theologians” could do us all a favor by “walking” us through some of the contrasts made between what Dr. Gaines said and what he left out as indicated in this letter. I have had to “soak it in” to my mind using a “you have to be kidding”….”this can not be so” attitude while coming to the same conclusions the author came to. Any takers?
Sorry for the length NASS!
Padroc
I know this is a bit old, and I seem to have joined in on this kind of late, but things at the church have finally come to a point where I feel speaking out would be useful.
First, the letter was very imformative. I love that when I start to feel discouraged after being emotionally beat down by SG supporters, I can come here and feel uplifted with words like the ones in this letter. I don't feel like a pagan, as I've come to feel now when I attend church.
Padroc:
You said how Bellevue had been like a boot camp for many years, and something along the lines of perhaps God is sending these strong christians to serve in other churches.
I can't agree more. I really feel like God is doing that in the lives of a lot of people.
~Theo
Jack Bauer said
The one thing I would request from her is that she might consider laying off one of the most Godly men I know. His initials are PN. She has mentioned him by name, not initials, so I presume my use of his initials will pass your delete button. He is a good and Godly man devoted to God's calling on his life and I admire and respect him.
Piglet says:
I haven't ever mentioned PN by name but now that you bring him up, I cannot tell you how ashamed I am of him.
It is widely known that PN avoids onflict. He has taken the road of least conflict - going along to get along, and participating in the persecution of others who will not condone sin.
I yanked my kids out of his youth group. WHAT IF ALL THE KIDS IN PN'S YOUTH GROUP TOOK THE EASY ROAD, THE ONE OF LESS CONFLICT - AND FOLLOWED HIS EXAMPLE? THEY'D ALL BE HAVING SEX AND GETTING STONED.
He sold out his integrity for postion, the same thing he tells his kids NOT to do every week.
NASS,
Well, I suppose Truth could sit on one of those "pole seats".
There does that help?
My thought is that either God is for "us" or against "us". Since He is for US, (as in His children) I think He can put whatever legs on that stool He wants. And, I think He could take a "leg" from here and a "leg" from there and another from over there and wa-la, make a stool. The "legs" are just "legs" not conspirators.
Now granted there will be those who will insist on the conspiracy idea but God already knows that is not the truth, so we do not have to get rattled. We can just let God oversee those hearts and minds and go about the business of disseminating truth.
I just happen to like the "picture" of how this stool for truth just happens to have legs belonging to three unique and isolated entities, which I just happen to know do not talk or relate to one another about what the other is or is not doing. For those who insist on a “joined forces” notion as in:
Billie wrote:
"Anyone who clicks on www.info@integritydoescount can easily see the "Seperate" websites who have joined forces (organized) supporting one another."
I happen to know how far off you are with your judgment. The “stool for truth” has three legs which exist totally and independently of each other yet as I am comfortable saying affixed buy providence to the same seat.
Padroc
imaresistor said...
Megachurch Leader D. James Kennedy Dies
1:59 PM, September 05, 2007
Piglet says:
Another one gone. And who will replace them? :(
I'm just now getting around to reading some of today's comments in detail, and I'd like to ask Ms. Billie to please explain her words:
"What is really sad is for whatever reason the Roger's family, has supported the picture that is now painted of Dr. Rogers.
They would have you to believe that Dr. Gaines has brought shame to the legacy of Dr. Rogers but the truth is their poor choices and discernment have done the damage."
I can't wait to hear this!
"Jesus warned about those seeking signs and wonders…. Choose you this day who you will serve."
Padroc, Your entire comment was 'spot on' as they say in Britain. This subject always makes me think of Matthew 7. We are warned.
billie said
I and countless other people refuse to allow this, distorted picture painted by the mixed up minds of a small number of people,
destroy the legacy and theology of living by faith; trusting God with the leadership of our Church which Dr. Rogers left with us.
Piglet says:
It is no "small number" of people who have flooded out the doors and into many other churches. One week more than 30 people from BBC joined Faith Baptist, and 40 another week. I don't know what the stats are for GBC, Covenant, First Baptist Collierville, or Cordova Baptist.
These are people who can see for themselves, have studied the evidence, examined the fruit of Steve Gaines and made the difficult decision to leave their church home (of many years in most cases).
These folks, like us, did not take this deision lightly, and would have had to endure less "change" had they stayed, if "change" was the issue, as you like to say.
The issue is blatant SIN. Dr. Rogers family know full well that he was distressed about BBC at the time of his passing - and this was before much had even transpired that brought to light Steve Gaines' true character - or lack thereof.
You don't know what to do with that, do you? It really looks bad that the Rogers family has left - hard to put a spin on, huh, Billie? In order to do that, you have to say that YOU knew Dr. R's feelings better than his beloved wife. Surely you do not presume to know her husband better than she did.
Or do you?
Nass,
why did you have to bring that up again?
That's why I stayed off the blog all day.
I think it is too cruel and evil to say those things about the R family.
How desperate does the Gaines camp look pulling that out??
And like housewife...I see the other part of it as a threat...."if one goes down...."
The truth is the truth.
BT and her "joint forces" make threats and pretend...
(such as when SG made a public declaration of the support the R family gave him...but the seats where they were to be were empty)
BUT in the end, pretending and making threats will never change the truth about either men.
In the end SG belittles himself by trying to bring down an honorable man.
SG can't stand on his own...neither can his supporters...
even in the lame meeting with the 2 men....SG had to try and bring down Bro R.
The new strategy isn't working.
You can't change the truth or reality.
I personally would prefer NOT hearing an explanation by BT.
Man...
piglets back.
Hey Piglet....we've been missing you!
Nice try. The $10.00 is for the book. Duh.
Also from the Bellevue web site Stene Gaines includes his football highlights.
Next, scroll down and read the years he "won" the "State" in baptisms and the year he came in "second". Further down you can read the the numbers and years he increased the Sunday School and worship attendance. This has no mention of this being of God but only of Steve Gaines!
University of Tennessee at Martin, Martin, Tennessee
Attended freshman and sophomore years
Full football scholarship at UTM
Starting defensive end, freshman and sophomore years
Dyersburg High School, Dyersburg, Tennessee, 1975
MINISTRY EXPERIENCE
Pastor, First Baptist Church, Gardendale, Alabama, 1991-2005.
Baptisms:
1st in baptisms in Alabama Baptist State Convention (a total of 3,100+ Baptist churches) in 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002, and 2004; (2nd in 1996, 2001 and 2003)
Morning Worship:
Began three morning worship services in September, 1996 to accommodate growth. Increased average morning worship attendance from 1600 to an average of 3,300 in morning worship
Sunday School:
Increased average on-campus Sunday School attendance from 1,550 to 2,591
Interesting and sober look back
Billie,
Clearly, 5,000 to 6,000 people are missing on any given Sunday at Bellevue now. Don't you remeber Bro. Steve shortly after he arrived bragging on the regular 10,000+ that attended the two worship services each week?
Last year, the church claimes that over 1,000 new members joined Bellevue. If we were averaging 10,000+ at the beginning of last year and we added another 1,000+ new members during the year, why are we only averaging in the 5,000's this past month (Bellevue's official stats) for both services combined?
My math tells me 5,000 to 6,000 are missing. Are you actually saying that we who are missing are all wrong about Steve Gaines?
Steve Gaines has purposefully come to change, kill, steal, and destroy what once was a wonderful Spirit filled church. There was no reason in the world for him to take the salary he demanded, demand Bellevue to purchase him a Colonial Country Club membership, have several credit cards in Bellevue's name, get rid of the best Worship leader in the Southern Baptist Convention, put a shrine up inside the church to honor himself and his wife, lead another staff member and two deacons to trespass into a neighborhood of a member, trash his own sheep in another church north of here, fleece his sheep further by overcharging for a Holy land tour, and now show a commercial for his next Holy land trip in the middle of the worship service.
I could keep going on and on but you've already seen these things yourself.
We are all saddened, disgusted, hurt, and confused over why a man would come into town and do such things.
You and the current leadership can pretend everthing is ok if you want but it doesn't change the Truth of what's happened and what's happening at Bellevue today.
Many people have sold themselves out for a job and position. That is sad.
padroc,
You hit exactly the point I was trying to make...there's no magic or transfer of God's power in the laying on of hands...I agree, it's a dangerous practice and unwarranted by Scripture. My mentor told me long ago not to let anyone lay hands on me. While we should certainly pray for one another, I tend to take my problems straight to the throne...that's where the real power is ;)
Link to which "truth" refers.
gmommy, concernedsbcer, and others
Hiya! Still lurking off and on.
You all keep the bases covered and
this new Housewife is doing a grand job answering Miss Billie so I don't feel the need to post much.
Sometimes, though, I just have a thing or two to say.
Y'all can take it from here. :)
G'night!
Andrew said...
Interesting and sober look back
9:46 PM, September 05, 2007
Wow. If we had only known. Heck, if the committee had only done their homework better. I'm sure plenty of people would have warned them at Gardendale. Or maybe not. I understand too many people were afraid of SG.
But hey! Look at the "before" picture of the choir!! Man! What a beautiful sight. And I remember it was a beautiful sound too!
Billie Tapp said:
I and countless other people refuse to allow this, distorted picture painted by the mixed up minds of a small number of people,
SOTL says:
SIGH, I"m so confused!!! I thought that the small number of people were just mad about the music, and now I learn that it was about soemthing else???
I wish they would pick an excuse and stick with it.
Andrew: Took a look at that. It struck me how full the choir loft was.......
housewife said:
But hey! Look at the "before" picture of the choir!! Man! What a beautiful sight. And I remember it was a beautiful sound too!
SOTL says:
Housewife, wouldn't you just LOVE to hear billie's explanation as to why the choir has shrunk?
Are they in on the " Vast Anti-Gaines/BBC Conspiracy" too?
I do not recall sending any of the choir members the synchronized watches, and I am the keeper of the watches.
By the way, did you get yours? We voted you into the clandestine club at our last clandestine meeting.
Andrew: Also, when we were members at BBC when it was still downtown, it forever spoiled me that the Call to Worship should be "Majesty."
fogmachine said:
Steve Gaines has purposefully come to change, kill, steal, and destroy what once was a wonderful Spirit filled church. There was no reason in the world for him to take the salary he demanded, demand Bellevue to purchase him a Colonial Country Club membership, have several credit cards in Bellevue's name, get rid of the best Worship leader in the Southern Baptist Convention, put a shrine up inside the church to honor himself and his wife, lead another staff member and two deacons to trespass into a neighborhood of a member, trash his own sheep in another church north of here, fleece his sheep further by overcharging for a Holy land tour, and now show a commercial for his next Holy land trip in the middle of the worship service.
SOTL says;
Fog, repeat after me:
Steve Gaines is an innocent victim. Steve Gaines is an innocent victim.
Now, just keep saying this until you believe it.
Housewife: Please email me.
:)
Looks like crooks are at it again breaking into cars at church.
2000 Appling - Theft from Motor Vehicle
Tuesday, August 28, 2007 at 06:50 PM - Case Number 0708016531ME
2000 Appling Rd - Theft from Motor Vehicle
Thursday, August 16, 2007 at 09:10 PM - Case Number 0708009412ME
Fog: Excellent reminder of why SG is not leadership material. It's sad you didn't even have room to list it all.......
Hi piglet. I thought I remembered someone with your name from a while back. =)
I started to post back when the fence jumping criminal intent was still new and fresh to a lot of people, before the PW fiasco came to light.
I got sick of the lies from the SG camp (well after the PW case a bunch of other "stuff" came to light) and decided I needed a break from the nonsense from those like billie (she probably had a different name back then, unless she came after I decided to take a break). Back then it was ace, (wasn't it?) and a few others.
Anyway, I still tried to keep myself informed. The anonymous letter and another subject sparked me up again.
SOTL: I know that exercise was for Fogmachine, but I tried it too.
Doesn't work.
sickofthelies,
I laugh at your humor. You are funny.
SG is a victim of SG as everyone on this blog is responsible for their own actions. I don't know of too many people that always blame their actions on others like Steve Gaines does. I'll never forget the fence deal when he said, "it was just an itty bitty fence." Nevermind the words NO TRESPASSING were plainly marked and that huge iron gates keeps people like him out of neighborhoods for a reason. It's also funny that he has an iron gate around his front door to keep people out. I wonder what he would do if someone trespassed and jumped his itty bitty fence?
His own words have done him the most harm. If he wants to blame anyone, he needs to blame himself.
Fog,
I forgot to tell you that it helps if you click your heels together while saying it.
" We are't in Kansas anymore, TOTO"
Fog,
what you say sounds like PN making excuses for CS's ( ACE) behavior by blaming it on us...He was provoked into it. He was not responsible for his behavior. WE are responsible for his behavior.
This is what they are now teaching our kids?
If the so called leader isn't responsible for his own behavior, I guess that's the attitude they are all taking now.
ConcernedSBC'er..
Please refer to my 10:53 PM post.
How's this for an Adrianism?
“We will never violate the principles of Scripture to recover and preserve the integrity of Scripture.”
article found here
I know it may seem hard for some to understand but Adrian Rogers was the real deal. He loved Jesus. He was just a man of flesh and blood but what a man - a man's man (meek, loyal, bold, kind, tender, fun, tough, faithful). I'm so thankful that I was able to learn how to think, live, and love from Him. He has earned the honor that he never wanted. And I praise Jesus for what He did with and through Adrian Rogers - our Pastor and friend.
Steve. Stop, repent, and surrender. The Good Shepherd loves His sheep and He will deal with all of us who harm and scatter them. His grace and mercy will stand aside for His judgment, and when it does, I pray that you and I are ready.
fogmachine said:
I wonder what he would do if someone trespassed and jumped his itty bitty fence?
SOTL says:
Anyone up for a field trip? :)
SOTL says:
Housewife, wouldn't you just LOVE to hear billie's explanation as to why the choir has shrunk?
oc says:
Put it in the dryer too long?
Concerned...
I know what you mean and He will restore in His time and His way. Woe to those who are not of Him and have led many astray.
The Lord, He is God!
Deut 7:7-11
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.
oc said...
SOTL says:
Housewife, wouldn't you just LOVE to hear billie's explanation as to why the choir has shrunk?
oc says:
Put it in the dryer too long?
11:30 PM, September 05, 2007
Please! She'd blame the dissenters for honoring AR too much or for telling the truth about SG. Hey, if you click your heels just right, maybe we can get an AR insult in there too!
Steve Gaines said: "I have never seen a church that intervened in that and started telling the pastor who to have as his minister of music, who to have as his minister of ?, that it didn’t blow up in the church’s face." transcript
The point is don't mistreat the minister of music that you do have. No one said or is saying that you couldn't build your own team. And yes, you must have a say in who you bring to help you but wouldn't it be wise to involve others significantly in the process
In Nov 05 Adrian Rogers told SG to,
"Slow Down"
In May 06 SG said,
"All the little changes I’ve made that I felt were little and he was 100% with them from the get go,..."
Hmmm...
Again let's all stand in front of the mirror and get the log out first.
The Fundamental Qualification for Pastoral Ministry Is A Godly Character
Andrew,
You made a good point concerning Steve Gaines and his relationship with Jim Whitmire/rest of the staff.
I'm asking myself this question!
Did the search committee ask about his intentions on how he would handle the existing staff? It's hard to believe they didn't ask this important question.
Did Steve Gaines say one thing and do another or did the search committee agree to Steve Gaines coming in like a tornado and destroy everthing in its path?
Concernedsbcer,
Creepy, spooky! I had the same thought as your son - that these great men of God are being taken before literally all hell breaks loose. Now Luciano can teach Dr. Rogers to sing "Victory in Jesus" in Italian:
Vittoria in Jesus, il mio savior per sempre! :)
Housewife,
Would you please email me?
Thanks!
karen
Fogmachine said:
I'm asking myself this question!
Did the search committee ask about his intentions on how he would handle the existing staff? It's hard to believe they didn't ask this important question.
Did Steve Gaines say one thing and do another or did the search committee agree to Steve Gaines coming in like a tornado and destroy everthing in its path?
The commitee did cover this with SG. In a meeting with BS in late June/ early July 2005, he agreed to make no changes for at least 1 year and allow BS to guide him through getting to know BBC and it's people and ways.
This agreement changed BS's mind from voting against calling SG. This remained in affect through August of 2005.
fogmachine: That's a million dollar question. If I was a betting man (and I'm not!) I think the committee knew there would be changes (notably Jamie because EVERYONE knew if SG came, Jamie would come- known that FOR YEARS) but I don't think they had any idea it would be this many and handled in the uncouth way it has been.
JMHO
AslansOwn: So you are saying he made the agreement not to change anything for a year in June/July 2005 and he began changing things immediately....you said agreement was in effect until Aug. 2005 but didn't he come Sept. 11 2005?
CONCERNED:
Yes.
AslansOwn: So you are saying he forgot the agreement as soon as he agreed to it.
*sigh* How many commandments does that break?????
It goes back to integrity....no matter what road you are on, it starts and ends with integrity.
concernedsbcer wrote:
"It goes back to integrity....no matter what road you are on, it starts and ends with integrity."
Yes, but sometimes it's a very short road -- with lots of detours.
Nass: That's just.....
well.....
wrong.
:(
You know, that road for a "Man of God" should be one of integrity. I know everyone makes mistakes, but there is a problem when the same mistakes are repeatedly made and it's real hard for anyone to harvest your "fruits of the spirit."
That's a BIG problem.
Dr. Albert Mohler on the personal influence of Dr. D. James Kennedy on his own life can be read here .
Karen said...
Now Luciano can teach Dr. Rogers to sing "Victory in Jesus" in Italian:
Vittoria in Jesus, il mio savior per sempre! :)
10:51 AM, September 06, 2007
I was a big fan of Luciano Pavarotti's voice and music. But I wasn't aware that he professed to be a Christian. I guess I'm wondering what you mean because he won't be in heaven (where Dr. R is) he wasn't a Christian.
No offense, though. It just struck me in a weird way. It would be nice to hear that he gave his life to Christ. =)
oc said...
SOTL says:
Housewife, wouldn't you just LOVE to hear billie's explanation as to why the choir has shrunk?
Billie writes:
Gossiping men and women, jealousy, back stabbing, lies, strife, fear of change, greed, spite, wolves in sheep clothing, hypocrites, lack of faith, pride, and unionized strikes against the leadership (people within and without). Yes, Jim W was overlooked and in our eyes it wasn't fair, but maybe in God's eyes He could see Jim would become a better person from the experience. What "Billie" knows is all things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and are called for His purposes.
As we mature in our faith we should rely on the Lord (trust) and claim His Word instead of feeling sorry for ourselves. My prayer is that we have all matured in our faith through the pain and suffering.
Life is not fair and people who expect it are disappointed.
Jim W knows this and so does Brother Steve.
Brother Steve did not hurt JW
on purpose but personally I believe that JW has tried to hurt Brother Steve, several people have verbalized their disappointment in JW for the way that he conducted himself, even though he was not given a huge party which most long time ministers normally receive.
I will admit that I would have had my feelings hurt and I would have pouted so I am NOT judging.
The choir is growing and we have added a lot of gifted singers. We have just added another music minister, who is absolutely wonderful. Jamie has been caught up in the middle of a very bad situation and I have much sympathy for him. Jamie has conducted himself very godly and has gained much respect from the choir and church members.
Helloooooooooooooooooooo
Billie,
Clearly, 5,000 to 6,000 people are missing on any given Sunday at Bellevue now. Don't you remeber Bro. Steve shortly after he arrived bragging on the regular 10,000+ that attended the two worship services each week?
Last year, the church claimes that over 1,000 new members joined Bellevue. If we were averaging 10,000+ at the beginning of last year and we added another 1,000+ new members during the year, why are we only averaging in the 5,000's this past month
Fog Machine,
Dr. Rogers often said that he doubted that even half of Bellevue members actually had a personal relationship with the Lord! I guess he was right!
Billie wrote:
"Brother Steve did not hurt JW
on purpose but personally I believe that JW has tried to hurt Brother Steve, several people have verbalized their disappointment in JW for the way that he conducted himself... "
And how would you classify this statement? Oh, I forgot. You already did -- in your first sentence...
"Gossiping men and women, jealousy, back stabbing, lies, strife, fear of change, greed, spite, wolves in sheep clothing, hypocrites... "
Please, for everyone's sake, give back that key!
Billie wrote:
"Dr. Rogers often said that he doubted that even half of Bellevue members actually had a personal relationship with the Lord! I guess he was right!"
Lady (and I use that term loosely), you are dancing dangerously close to the edge with that one!
Billie said:
Fog Machine,
Dr. Rogers often said that he doubted that even half of Bellevue members actually had a personal relationship with the Lord! I guess he was right!
10:30 PM, September 06, 2007
oc says:
Documentation needed. And if it was 'often', it should be easy to get.
PS.And your 'guess'ing doesn't qualify.
Just sayin'.
oc.
FNTD,
You passed. :-)
NASS!!!! LYNN!!!!!
Duct tape PLEASE!!!!!!
Billie said:
unionized strikes against the leadership (people within and without).
oc says:
Whoa. Musta missed that. Union?
Where do I join up?
Let's see Miss Billie, if we work this right we can dramatize enough to make this a national, even an international incident. That's right. Everyone is against Stevie. The KGB, the FBI, the CIA, the Girl Scouts of America. Conspiracy sells, you know.
Hmmmm. I wonder. Is Jimmy Hoffa buried in your back yard?
Just sayin'.
oc.
billie said:
Jamie has been caught up in the middle of a very bad situation and I have much sympathy for him.
sotl asks:
And what situation would that be?
Housewife,
I have copied and pasted the following statement from your earlier post in which you called me a liar for stating the picture that this blog site has drawn in the minds of a lot of people who have expressed them to me and I can produce the witnesses.
It is time for people who are so eager to make statements regarding what they claim to be facts to produce the source and get to the bottom of the bickering. "Put up or Shut UP!
More than half of what it said is false and the other half is under the blood and over with, if you have a problem with forgiving our pastor then it is your problem and you need to go to God and work on your self. He (the pastor doesn't have the problem you do) and it is as simple as that!
I am confronting you regarding your following statement and I want you to produce the evidence that there is truth in what you said. There must be at least 2 eyewitnesses outside of Dr. Rogers family.
If you can produce the reliable witnesses who state that Brother Steve treated Dr. Rogers disrespectively or harshly without a reason, then I will believe you but if you do not produce them I will consider you the liar, a false witness and a gossip.
I will watch for your reply!
This is the statement of the blogger who goes by the name
Housewife:
Billie,
"You'll want to ignore the following fact as you love to do... Before he died, AR told Bro. Whitmire that he felt duped by SG. SG treated AR very badly in front of witnesses. But by then, it was too late!"
Housewife,
We are waiting!
Ms. Billie,
I am confronting you regarding your following statement and I want you to produce the evidence that there is truth in what you said. There must be at least 2 eyewitnesses outside of Billie Tapp's family.
If you can produce the reliable witnesses who state that Brother Jim Whitmire treated Dr. Gaines disrespectively or harshly without a reason, then I will believe you but if you do not produce them I will consider you the liar, a false witness and a gossip.
I will watch for your reply!
Your statement:
"Brother Steve did not hurt JW
on purpose but personally I believe that JW has tried to hurt Brother Steve, several people have verbalized their disappointment in JW for the way that he conducted himself, even though he was not given a huge party which most long time ministers normally receive."
Billie,
We are waiting!
SIGH.
Billie, Billie, Billie
You exasperate me.
You say that half of the things are made up about Stevie boy.
Here is the list that Fog made the other day. Would you be so kind as to advise us as to which of these things were made up?
Thanks so much.
Steve Gaines has purposefully come to change, kill, steal, and destroy what once was a wonderful Spirit filled church. There was no reason in the world for him to take the salary he demanded, demand Bellevue to purchase him a Colonial Country Club membership, have several credit cards in Bellevue's name, get rid of the best Worship leader in the Southern Baptist Convention, put a shrine up inside the church to honor himself and his wife, lead another staff member and two deacons to trespass into a neighborhood of a member, trash his own sheep in another church north of here, fleece his sheep further by overcharging for a Holy land tour, and now show a commercial for his next Holy land trip in the middle of the worship service.
i fellow brothers and sisters been off the site awhile but received a bellevue propaganda flyer aimed at my children tat disturbs me.Its called the Pastors junior Pit crew flyer recruited children to support bro steve and his family.It strikes me as again as Recruiting Idol Worship of
King Steve it came from Carol Higginbotthams office but Could steve again be the author of this idea with his cronies and could this theme be a creation from the eariler childrens production this year of the childrens program of the race car musical number.Have any of you seen the flyer yet?again its content points to .......king Steve what a wonderful Pit Crew leader...Comments?
Let me make my statement regarding half of the church not having a personal relationship with the Lord.
I wasn't saying that All the people who left BBC are without a personal relationship. I made that statement sarcastically because of how most of you paint the picture that all the people who support our pastor are false worshipers.
This is what happens so often when the words are presented without a face to show expressions.
I do offer my apology to those of you who were offended.
Billie,
This isn't your blog. We don't take orders from you.
If you are so upset...YOU prove it isn't true.
But you don't make the rules for us.
You are free to believe whatever you chose.
I personally don't care what you think and I doubt very seriously if HW does.
Please go knit or something. Even in print...your voice is a screech.
Billie,
Would you have us to believe that Dr. Rogers went to his death thinking " what a great guy that SG is" " I'm so happy I am leaving
BBC with him"
Yeah, the evidence is certainly there to support that. After all, look at how happy his family is at BBC. Oh, wait..that's right..they aren't there anymore are they?
.
Look Back NASS
I said that it was "my opinion" therefore I do not need to produce witnesses.
If you want witnesses who have stated that they have been disappointed in JW that is not problem but I will have to ask permission to disclose their names.
Billie,
I started to say "thank you" for the apology, but I immediately realized it's typical of the kinds of empty "apologies" we so often hear today. "I'm sorry if you were offended."
A real apology (if you truly mean it) takes this form:
"I apologize for making that insensitive remark. I was being sarcastic, but I shouldn't joke about such a thing and it was inexcusable. Please accept my apology."
Shall we try that again?
fallentheditch,
It appears to me that Carolyn H. has been doing some major ring kissin.
New BBC Open Forum said...
Ms. Billie,
I am confronting you regarding your following statement and I want you to produce the evidence that there is truth in what you said. There must be at least 2 eyewitnesses outside of Billie Tapp's family.
If you can produce the reliable witnesses who state that Brother Jim Whitmire treated Dr. Gaines disrespectively or harshly without a reason, then I will believe you but if you do not produce them I will consider you the liar, a false witness and a gossip.
I will watch for your reply!
Your statement:
NASS: I will take the above statement in which you tampered with to present me as having said something that I did not say regarding Jim Whitmire. You have created a LIE knowing that your team of blogsters will spread the lie. One thing for certain everyone is going to know that you made up this lie.
Billie wrote:
"If you want witnesses who have stated that they have been disappointed in JW that is not problem but I will have to ask permission to disclose their names."
And I'm sure "housewife" will need to ask permission from her sources, too. I could name at least two myself, but without their permission I won't. Nor am I going to ask their permission. I figure if they want to broadcast what they've told individuals, that's their prerogative.
Billie,
Don't apologize for your back handed slaps.
Don't pray for us please!
Your words have no meaning to us...
you certainly have a right to your opinion... but we don't play your games and you have ABSOLUTELY no influence on us.
What's the point...to annoy us????
OK...you are very annoying...feel better???
What arrogance to think you are in any position to call any of us out for anything.
This blog...unlike BBC...is not dictated by SG or you.
Billie wrote:
"You have created a LIE knowing that your team of blogsters will spread the lie."
Au contraire, Billie. Here are your exact words...
"Brother Steve did not hurt JW
on purpose but personally I believe that JW has tried to hurt Brother Steve, several people have verbalized their disappointment in JW for the way that he conducted himself, even though he was not given a huge party which most long time ministers normally receive."
What exactly weren't you saying about JW here?
Even if any of us felt the need to PROVE what many of us know.....
WHY?????
Billie believes what she wants to and I am just fine with that.
Don't care to convince her of anything.
Why does SG need a Billie coming out to "fight his battles"???
If SG wants proof...I am sure he can handle his own business.... but you aren't SG so why do you feel the need to frantically defend him?
Believe whatever you choose...we owe you nothing.
Bille wrote Fallethnthe ditch last year sorry Iam just getting back with you as Harry Smith still has not got back with meeee...
I have read some distorted views in this anti Christ site, but yours caused me to be a first time ever blogger. I can't not understand how you can profess to know our Lord and yet make such rediculious accusations against a pastor who gave up a place of peace and comfort with a comfortable living in Alabama, to answer the call of the Lord to come to our Church and be our Pastor. Brother Steve would not be where he is today if he was the person that you say that he is. Where is your faith? Are you one of the Calvanist who believe that God created you for the purpose to persecute and harrass another man? You have a choice; either work with the man God has chosen as our leader or not obviously you have chosen to stay and stir up as much hostility as you possibly can, which is characteristic of Lucifer. I for one am very glad to have Pastor Steve, even with his flaws (humanity). I dare to think what you and some of your kind would have done to Paul when he preached to crowds who had people in the midst who were stirring up problems in the congregations. There is little doubt that he would have said, "get these out of your midst" obviously we were not aware of so many wolves in sheeps clothing sitting in our midst even thought Dr. Rogers told us that you were there. We were still shocked to see who they were when the wool was removed. You and your like need to just get out and leave the rest of us alone because as Joshua would say: "As for me and my house we will serve the Lord" I would suggest that you read the book of Joshua and see how he lined up God's children to follow him into the promised land. The Israelites had a choice either follow Joshua or not; those who did marched on in with God's favor.
Signing a pledge to follow the lead of Brother Steve is nothing more than the Israelites did to follow Joshua. My question to, "FallethNtheDitch" what ditch would you have died in in the wilderness? You would not have entered the promised land if you had been there with your attitude!
There comes a time when we have to shake the dust off the bottom of our feet and I hope that Brother Steve and the others who tried to cross the fence of Mr. Sharpe walked out of the drive way and did that very thing. Paul taught the principal, "turning one over to satan in order that the soul may be saved" this is what needs to be done and maybe someday you all will come to your right mind, seek forgiveness from God, come back and stand before us, the congregation and openly opologize to our Pastor and us for all the evil that you have done.
I can assure you that you will find hearts, like our Pastor, who are willing to forgive and offer you the love of Jesus Christ.
December 5, 2006 10:52:00 AM PST
ahh Billie Iam back as you are but Billie I am hornored as I recall that I caused you tobe a first time Blogger Back in 2006 with your oppsing veiws But Dr ,rodgers taught us very well to look for self serving men in the pulpit but its sad to see you are still duped buy this traveling ministral show perhaps you should call a church meeting to order just call David Coombs personaly and he will arrange it.Perhaps you could get a free Holy land trip or put your personal memoirs in the display case....Do you have a prom dress or are you aguy just asking...I await your next comment with great anticipation>>>>
Just a tad of basic common sense,some manners,
and a tad of class could have prevented JW from being hurt.
It certainly had NOTHING to do with a party.
He HAD a Party, lady, sanctioned by SG or not.
Is the glass breaking where you are???...
my cyber ears hurt from your ranting.
Billie said:
....unionized strikes against the leadership (people within and without
Jamie has been caught up in the middle of a very bad situation and I have much sympathy for him
Ok, billie..let's hear your proof that there is now a union...Maybe IDC, Saving BBC and NBBOF have all joined a union? Do we also pay union dues? Ok, I'm going to let you in on a little secret, but don't tell anyone ( looking around to make sure no one is listening)
Jimmy Hoffa is the head of our union and lives in Minnesota..yes, Billie...Jimmy Hoffa is our own NASS whom we all love and adore, and lives in his parents basement with his bed and his computer...
Ok, now I have already asked you once about Jamie..just what situation exactly, is it that he has become caught up on..Remember, these were YOUR words, not mine..the folks over on the DArk Side are going to have a hay day with what you said about Jamie if you dont' clear it up.
FNTD wrote:
"i fellow brothers and sisters been off the site awhile but received a bellevue propaganda flyer aimed at my children tat disturbs me.Its called the Pastors junior Pit crew flyer recruited children to support bro steve and his family.It strikes me as again as Recruiting Idol Worship of
King Steve it came from Carol Higginbotthams office but Could steve again be the author of this idea with his cronies and could this theme be a creation from the eariler childrens production this year of the childrens program of the race car musical number.Have any of you seen the flyer yet?again its content points to .......king Steve what a wonderful Pit Crew leader...Comments?"
Welcome back! If you'll look at the previous topic, there are three links at the end which show the "Personal Prayer Guide" and the first two "assignments." Are any of those the one(s) your child received, or is there a new one?
FNTD wrote:
"...Billie I am hornored as I recall that I caused you tobe a first time Blogger Back in 2006 with your oppsing veiws"
Well, thank you very much for that! I owe you a big one. :-)
Miss Billie
Explain why BBC refuses to have open business meetings when MONTHLY business meetings are implied in the bylaws.
Tell us why Mark Dougherty stated, on tape, that they tell anyone who asks that we have NO bylaws (a lie) because they do not WANT bylaws.
Share with us the reason that BBC would withold financial records that should be OPEN to the CONTRIBUTING MEMBERSHIP and would force someone to go to COURT to have these opened.
I promise I will take Billie to starbucks but if she has to much Caffine she might hit me wiyh her swinging purse ...........
Duct tape, Duct tape! Get your duct tape!
Two for a dolla!
Wrap your head in the finest duct tape this side of the Mississippi.
Strong enough to keep your brains from shplodin', yet soft enough to resist facial abrasion. Get it now while supplies last!
But wait, if you act now, you not only get the brain explosion preventative premium duct tape, but you get all this.....
The itty bitty fence jumping kit, with spring loaded tennis shoes, which will assure that your leaps will exceed any privacy fence in your locale. (Please check local ordinances, some state and federal ordinances apply.)
Also, included as a bonus, for a limited time only, the "Amener Stopper". Cleverly disguised as a tennis ball and a gag, this instrument can help assure silence while you speak your pearls of wisdom upon an unsuspecting congregation. Just think of the fun you and your friends will have as you control the way people worship. What a wonderful power tool to add to your arsenal.
But that's not all. If you act quickly, we will add the 'anti terrorist' kit. Included in this kit is a set of beautifully polished nickel plated hand cuffs,
guaranteed to fit any 15 yr. old girl who sits in your congregation with sinister motives. Be the first on your block to intimidate a teenage girl. Imagine the admiration you will command while you exert your power over helpless individuals. What a rush!
Oh, and last but not least, as a limited offer, if you misuse your Mastercard or Visa, or church credit card, you will get a bonus gift, a "Get Away with Harboring a Sexual Predator" card, (also known as 'GAHSP'). With this card, you will remain guilt free while knowing full well you that you put little kids in danger of being molested. How can you pass this deal up? But remember, to get all this, you must act now. No, no, by all means do not delay, and do not pray. Act rashly, and without concern for eternal consequences, yours nor others.
And above all, remember the Great Words from the Great One that has guided your way.
"I Did It My Way".
And don't forget to say in your prayers tonight, 'thanks Frank'.
Just sayin'.
oc.
Have yall clicked on the ethics daily link???
Has everyone gone mad????
Nass,
...if we have to stay on moderation...
PLEASE let BT's ranting posts go into the _____ file!!
She is just way to OCD over the top with her fairy tales.
gmommy,
What? And deprive everyone of her rantings? Maybe I'll take a poll. We haven't had a poll in a long time.
Nass.....I am your follower! therefore please block those that would screech in my ears and make me sick.
I have refrained from critical comments over the past couple of years, especially if nothing constructive is contributed. However, I must say that I'm concerned these days that our fellowship is fractured, and that the fracturing is getting more severe.
For instance, the volunteer authorization and release form is encouraging leaders to authorized the use of information that might be discovered whether or not it is accurate or complete, from whatever source, which could conceivably include gossip, innuendo, or downright slander.
Scripture also warns against "surety" or pledging support for another's debts; and the consent form indicates (with poor grammar) that the person who signs the release agrees to pay for investigation related costs from a variety of named and un-named sources.
As for me, I'd prefer to honor the Word of God rather than some mumbojumbo form.
I'm speaking as one who has joyfully served the Lord through Bellevue in enough capacities that I've been asked by literally hundreds of people over the years "where is your office at Bellevue?" thinking I was on paid staff (never have been except for a couple of very minor things long ago such as entertaining for Christmas parties and such--and that's really more like gas money).
I'm just grieved, and hope that the Lord's wisdom will guide us all so that Jesus will be lifted up within each of us and among all of us.
gmommy,
Seriously, I don't want any followers. After all, I'm not SG.
last comment for me tonite bbc forum
I had not seen the previous thread prayer list from their propganda office and as I read was shocked at some of the idol worship that reaks from it.One of the prayer requests was to pay I mean pray for his bones...Ham bone connected to the wallet bone Wallet bone connected to the buy new property bone .New property bone connected to holy land profit bone....OK Ill stop...Dem Bones!!to answer your question the flyer Imentioned I did not see would be glad to meet you at starbucks with Billie to hand you the Flyer.Iam coming in here with a fresh discernment that the same ole propaganda is being fed to the church faithful and they can:t see thru it ,,,,,,,,,,good nite Billie will comment later. God bLess all my brothers and sisters!
GMommy: What about the EthicsDaily site?
Just a thought....maybe we should return to dealing with the true issues instead of trying to reason with someone who is unreasonable.
After all, while it's great to set a new fashion trend with duct tape, there comes a time when you have to leave it in God's hands because you've done all you can do.
:)
oc wrote (with tongue in cheek):
"If you act quickly, we will add the 'anti terrorist' kit. Included in this kit is a set of beautifully polished nickel plated hand cuffs,
guaranteed to fit any 15 yr. old girl who sits in your congregation with sinister motives. Be the first on your block to intimidate a teenage girl. Imagine the admiration you will command while you exert your power over helpless individuals. What a rush!"
You forgot to tell the fokes about the badge.
32yrs@bbc has left a new comment on your post "An Anonymous Letter":
32yrs@bbc said...
Billie, the following is a list I compiled for myself to help me sort out why I could not trust nor respect SG as my spiritual leader.
Perhaps it will help open your eyes, too, but I doubt it. I fear you are willingly ignorant.
Feb. 2007
WHY I AM GRIEVING OVER OUR CHURCH:
-SG told his congregation at Gardendale that he intended to change some "wrongs" at Bellevue when he came as our pastor. He then told us that he was going to teach us HOW to pray (with Dr. Rogers still sitting in the congregation) and worship.
-SG said nothing gracious to Dr. Rogers after Dr. Rogers humbly washed his feet and bestowed on him the mantle of ministry.
-He refused Dr. R's counsel to
"slow down" in making changes.
-He very seldom asked for prayer for Dr. Rogers when Dr. Rogers was so critically ill in the hospital.
-He immediately brought about changes to our church while we were in the process of grieving Dr. Rogers' grave illness and then
death...instead of being sensitive to the suffering sheep in his flock. (This after he promised the Search Committee he would make no changes for at least a year!)
-He used the pulpit as a "bully pulpit" to rebuke us for being unhappy with the change in music.
-He dismissed JW and long-time staff members in a way that was not honoring to them and their long tenures at Bellevue.
-He (thru MD) registered our church with The Willow Oak Association (PDC association) without it being congregationally known or approved. (They later withdrew when the matter became known and there was an out-cry.)
-He wanted (this has been put on the back-burner) to use the Love Offering to build a Prayer Bldg. and have people praying 24 hrs. a day...and bring people from all over the world to teach them how to pray.
-He led three other men to trespass into MS's gated community and did not apologize until he was pressured to.
-He called MS at home and compared him to Hezbullah (a Muslim terrorist group).
-He apologized to the congregation for the Gardendale remarks and the "fence jumping" but never really asked for forgiveness.
-He (on the very next night) made some jokes at Bellevue's expense to a congregation at Union City, TN.
-He apologized for that one later but excused it by saying "I tend to shoot from the hip" and then asked "How many of you out there
shoot from the hip sometimes?" No real repentance or asking for forgiveness.
-He authorized $25,000 be given to an apostate church with a female pastor (First United Methodist).
-He did not immediately deal with a staff member who confessed to child abuse but let it ago until forced to do something. He
called this major blunder "a mistake because I was in unchartered waters" (he has been a pastor for 20+ years) and then let blame be distributed to two other staff members.
-He (in a meeting with a committee that oversees the monies given by Bellevue to Mid-America Seminary) insisted that MS be relieved from his position as Pres. of Mid-America if he didn't personally apologize to him and D.
-He refused to exonerate Dr. Rogers as Joyce asked when the PW problem was announced to the church in December thereby
hurting Joyce and forcing her to call into to Mike Fleming's program to protect her husband's name.
-He allows others to stand up before the church and speak for him and take the "blows" instead of him standing up before us alone
and acknowledging his failures.
------------------
Billie, this list was written in
Feb. of this year. Much more has transpired since then. It is not a matter of forgiving him. Of course, he would be forgiven if he ever truly repented and asked for forgiveness. It is a matter of facing the reality of the essence of the man. There is something wrong and that is God's business.
What you have to understand, Billie, (if you are willing to) is that people are hurt and grieving over the state of a once vital, vibrant, victorious church being brought to its knees since SG's arrival. Dr. R used to say "If there's a problem in a church, look to the one behind the pulpit first." The buck always stops with the spiritual leader - in a church on in a home. Of course, we know the long-time leadership could have nipped all of this in the bud and they did not. I admit that SG could not have caused the damage he has without their enablement. There lies the mystery. When all is said and done,
God is sovereign, it is His church and Bellevue will stand or fall according to His ultimate will. The test is: will the body of Christ continue to turn on itself with bitterness and anger? Billie, you need to give it a rest. SG does not need you to fight his battles. Just teach your little class and let God be God.
32 yrs,
For you! Thank you.
Like I said once before, if it were not for Ms. Billie, the blog would be completely void of things to discuss. -----HELP------
amazed,
Since redundancy seems to be in vogue this morning, allow me to say something I said before...
"You make some good points, but you still didn't offer any specific suggestions.
"This blog has been in existence for nearly a year. Some of the people here have grown close and even socialized in person, so there will occasionally be some socializing here. I don't know why that's offensive.
"It's not a matter of 'bowing out to make space for another.' There aren't a limited number of 'slots.' If you want to start a new topic of discussion or participate, feel free to do so. But please extend that same courtesy to others who post here as well."
Why don't you "HELP" and come up with some new ideas for discussion? You're as much entitled to guide the discussion as anyone. I'm working on one new topic already, but I'm always open to suggestions.
Billie said...
I wish to give a report on the deceptive ways that the BBC Open Forum blog site creates lies on people who confront their false statements. This is what actually happened to me tonight as I was conversing with the owner of the site.
I commented on a subject of Pastor Steve being cruel to Jim W. our former minister of music. I said, that I did not believe that Brother Steve intentionally hurt J W, but my personal opinion, I thought that J W tried to hurt Brother Steve because of the way that he left BBC. Note: my personal opinion.
In another posting, Housewife, stated that Brother Steve had treated Dr. Rogers badly in front of witnesses and that Dr. Rogers had made a comment that he felt he had been duped by Gaines.
I wrote a letter of confrontation to housewife telling her to put up or shut up! produce the witnesses.
BBC owner took my email of confrontation and edited it to read as though I had made up a lie on Jim Whitmire and that I said that Jim Whitmire had treated Brother Steve badly and that I had witnesses to prove it!! Which is a LIE! I never said there were any witnesses to anything only my opinion and that others had expressed their disappointment in JW for the way he conducted himself even though everyone including Brother Steve says that he did not receive the recognition that he deserved.
I am reporting this to you as well as others. I know that most of you know the evil deeds of the master minds against Brother Steve, but I am telling you to BE AWARE they will stop at nothing, they will stop short of nothing to get revenge when they are caught in a trap having to face truth!
BBC Open Forum will block anyone from confronting one of his followers. He protects the guilty to prove the innocent are wrong!!!!
Billie
12:15 AM, September 07, 2007
JTB: Now, now people...you have Billie so upset she can't sleep. She is up late "telling" on ya'll over on the dark side.
Billie, don't you know, the folks on the dark side come over to light and read all the time. No need to post your rantings over there.
Should I post some emails you sent me Billie? I promise I wont' alter them. Everyone will see how angry, hateful, mean spirited you can be.
I know for a fact that there are a few people here that have emails from you with the same ungodly,scripture twisting rants like you sent me.
You act so "holy" on the blog but your emails reveal you real heart.
You worry so much of what the other blog thinks about what you said here but Billie, what they think doesn't matter. God knows what you said. You should be concerned about pleasing Him.
You claim your such a great teacher that everyone is "seeing the light" because of you. You claim everyone is "singing your praises" because you "standing up for you faith" here ( or something like that).
What would they think if they saw the awful, hatefilled, scripture twisting, name calling emails that you sent?
Don't worry Billie. I am not going to publish them. I am embarrased for you. I keep them to remind myself of how satan blinds even sunday school teachers. How people in the last days will believe a lie instead of the truth. And not only will they believe that lie, they will defend it.
God's Word is ignored eventhough it is quoted. Scripture is twisted to make the person feel good, inflate a self-rightous mentality and to justify the sin & lies.
You claim you will only post here if God "gives you the key". Billie, you do what you want to do without any regard to what God would have you to do. You know that...or at least you should.
You are just playing games and you are using God to justify or give your silly rantings some credibility. God will not be used Billie. The faith you claim to stand up for here would be much better utilized if you shared it in the world.
It is easy to "stand up for Jesus" when it is on a blog or when most are christians. How about in your neighborhood? How about out in the missions BBC sponsers? You stand up there? You teach there? No, I didn't think so.
Why do you feel that you need to defend SG & the "leadership" if they haven't done anything wrong? Usually, when someone defends the actions of someone else so over the top as you do, the defendants are guilty of what they have been accused of. Just read the news paper. John Ford, Michael Vick, ect., all said they were innocent. Their lawyers defended them vigorously. Guess what? They were guilty!
Billie, you need to give it all a rest & get back to what God has called you to do.
Maybe then God can touch your heart with the truth.
billie said...
Yes, Jim W was overlooked and in our eyes it wasn't fair, but maybe in God's eyes He could see Jim would become a better person from the experience.
Sure JW was given the shank! But he should be grateful at how bad SG treated him!!
You hear that JW? Billie Tapp says, "Take it like a man!"
What "Billie" knows is all things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and are called for His purposes.
...or SG's benefit, whatever is more convenient.
As we mature in our faith we should rely on the Lord (trust) and claim His Word instead of feeling sorry for ourselves. My prayer is that we have all matured in our faith through the pain and suffering.
So basically, we all know SG has caused a lot of havoc and pain in the lives of those he's supposed to love in the name of the Lord. But let's just not hold him accountable for it. Just look the other way and, "Take it like a man." Got it.
Brother Steve did not hurt JW
on purpose but personally I believe that JW has tried to hurt Brother Steve, several people have verbalized their disappointment in JW for the way that he conducted himself, even though he was not given a huge party which most long time ministers normally receive.
So I called it right in a previous post. Extra credit for also insulting JW. When insulting AR isn't available, JW works just fine. SG treats him like dung and you want to blame JW. Who cares what the facts are. Just make them up as you go along.
In one sentence, you ADMIT JW was hurt and wrong. In the next, you sadly attempt to take it back and say it was JW who wronged SG. You've mastered this art of deception, haven't you? Every one of your posts shows this unfortunate skill.
I will admit that I would have had my feelings hurt and I would have pouted so I am NOT judging.
You hear that everyone! JW is just being a brat.
And yes, she's judging... wrongly of course because JW wasn't the one at fault here. But we'll just keep that to ourselves.
The choir is growing and we have added a lot of gifted singers.
It's sad they had to throw away many other gifted singers to do it.
Is it me, or is billie allergic to truth?
billie said...
Fog Machine,
Dr. Rogers often said that he doubted that even half of Bellevue members actually had a personal relationship with the Lord! I guess he was right!
10:30 PM, September 06, 2007
Fog, she completely avoided your question. I guess I can't blame her too much. It's kind of hard to deal with facts. Diversion works best.
Billie said...
Housewife,
I have copied and pasted the following statement from your earlier post in which you called me a liar for stating the picture that this blog site has drawn in the minds of a lot of people who have expressed them to me and I can produce the witnesses.
response:
billie, that's not why I called you a liar. And you know that! You're lying again!
Here is what I ACTUALLY SAID when I called you a liar...
housewife said...
billie, you are such a liar. Yes, a liar! YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SAID AR WAS FOOLED BY PW!!!!!!
3:39 PM, September 05, 2007
response:
I said that because you said this...
billie said...
They would have us to believe that not only was Dr. Rogers a fool for recommending Dr. Gaines, who he knew personally for a great number of years and loved to listen to him preach, but he was also a fool for having placed PW, a child molester, on staff.
10:07 AM, September 05, 2007
response:
You tried to blame us for calling AR a fool. But YOU were the one who called AR a fool...
billie said...
Wbo would have dreamed that it was possible for Dr. Rogers to be fooled for over 17 years by PW?
1:24 AM, September 03, 2007
response:
Man. You can't even keep your own lies strait. No wonder you won't even deal with SG's lies. It's probably too much to handle.
I forgot to add this to billie's latest ridiculous post about AR's family not being good enough witnesses...
Of course you want to exclude the AR family as potential witnesses. You know good and well that their testimony, just one word, would be extrememly DAMNING to SG's lies (and yours). It's the only defense you've got.
Billie said...
Look Back NASS
I said that it was "my opinion" therefore I do not need to produce witnesses.
If you want witnesses who have stated that they have been disappointed in JW that is not problem but I will have to ask permission to disclose their names.
11:32 PM, September 06, 2007
response:
Don't like when the shoe is on the other foot, do you?
Also, this is what you said:
billie said...
Brother Steve did not hurt JW
on purpose but personally I believe that JW has tried to hurt Brother Steve, several people have verbalized their disappointment in JW for the way that he conducted himself, even though he was not given a huge party which most long time ministers normally receive.
10:19 PM, September 06, 2007
response:
The "opinion" part was that JW tried to hurt SG. But the part where you state that "several people have verbalized their disappointment in JW..." no longer qualifies as an opinion. People either did or didn't "verbalize their disappointment." This is what Nass asked a witness for. But I'm sure you knew that.
NBBCOF: All I'm trying to say is, as long as Ms. Billie is the sole subject for discussion it wouldn't do any good to inject a new suject. There seems to be an overwhelming urge to "get Billie"
amazed wrote:
"All I'm trying to say is, as long as Ms. Billie is the sole subject for discussion it wouldn't do any good to inject a new suject."
Why not give it a try and see?
Here's the thing about Billie Tapp.
When we respond to her ' ramblings" we are actually responding to the mind-numbed robots that are just like her.
I know it's hard to believe, but there must be many more at BBC these days that have the same lack of discernment, common sense and criticle thinking skills that plague Billie Tapp.
So it's not JUST about BT...we are really speaking to others who are so easily mislead by SG and co.
SOTL: You are so right. There still seem to be so many people at BBC that haven't discerned what is going on at all. Our discussion with Billie is just in response to the misinformation that's "out there." Hopefully someone will be reading this and will have their eyes opened.
N-ass,
Just wondering how you can say you are saved and then sponsor a blog like this and allow people to talk to Billie like they are doing today.
May the wrath of God descend upon you all.
"There seems to be an overwhelming urge to "get Billie"
Really? It sounds to me more like an urge to 'help Billie' and others release the scales from their eyes.
Amazed, Why not start your own blog where you can control the comments as you wish?
SOTL has a good point. As sick as we are of the passive aggressive pious written delusions provided by Ms. Billie, she is not the only one with concrete blinders on. She just puts herself a little higher than the average follower of a narcissist man with lots of money.
So, Amazed, come up with a topic that is beyond the dribble provided by Ms. Billie.
Ms. Billie - noticed you were blogging mighty late. Does your husband approve of your activities here?
"There seems to be an overwhelming urge to "get Billie"
lindon said:
Really? It sounds to me more like an urge to 'help Billie' and others release the scales from their eyes.
Amazed, Why not start your own blog where you can control the comments as you wish?
oc says:
Lindon, those were my thoughts too. People like the aforementioned
may need help to awaken from their fog. And if it takes many different approaches, and a long time, is it not still worth the effort to point these things out to them? I think that's why many of us will forever put up with the 'billies'.
And Amazed? Yes. You complain about the content of the blog. You have been asked time and time again by NASS to suggest an alternate subject to discuss. Yet you seem quite satisfied to sit back and just complain, and not proffer any alternatives to the apparently (to you) objectionable subject matter.
What's up with that?
Like lindon says, construct your own blog. I'll contribute to the discussion. I promise.
What say you?
oc.
brady wrote:
"N-ass,
"Just wondering how you can say you are saved and then sponsor a blog like this and allow people to talk to Billie like they are doing today.
"May the wrath of God descend upon you all."
You know, for one who professes to be so godly, "brady" certainly has a filthy mouth, doesn't he? What's next, "brady"? Gonna drop the f-bomb on us?
I suppose it's okay for Billie to come here and spew her insults, accusations, and lies at people? Or for you to fill my ____ folder with your ____?
My e-mail filter will now be set to "Delete" all messages from the "brady bunch" (y'all know who you are) instead of merely filtering their rantings.
So, bye bye, "brady" and "watchinghisssssstory" and all the rest! Rant on to your tiny little hearts' content. I'll never see it! :-D
Brady wrote:
May the wrath of God descend upon you all."
oc says:
Well, thank you so much, you sweet little thang you. Hugs and kisses,back at ya.
oc. :)
Once again " BRADY" ( but we know who you REALLY are, don't we?) you have certainly won others over to Christ with your vulgar language...
But then again, with your mind forever stuck in " middle school" mode, that's what we expect from you.
Do you plan on growing up anytime soon?
Oh, and lose the beard..it's not a good look for you.
Question: How can we impact someone like Billie? We've logically explained things to her, we've argued, we've been kind....she will not listen.
Does that mean we quit trying?
There are so many issues to discuss....so many false teachings....so many broken hearted sheep.
A very sad Heavenly Father, I believe.
Prayer sometimes is all that remains. But just because there are some not listening doesn't mean we stop searching, warning, or loving.
Take heart, truthseekers. God's Word does not return void. Keep sharing what you know, keep studying, keep encouraging each other.
God is still on His throne.
concernedSBCer said...
"Question: How can we impact someone like Billie? We've logically explained things to her, we've argued, we've been kind....she will not listen.
Does that mean we quit trying?"
I think so. The warning has been sounded. It is her choice to make and she clearly has made that choice. We continue to pray for her and others like her. That is it in my opinion. We cannot command others to our belief any more than they can command us to see things as they do. In many ways, it harms our witness to continue on with the dialogue, if we can call it that.
Lin? Your opinion...
Ima
Yes, quit try'n.
Cakes,
email me. :)
concernedSBCer asked...
"How can we impact someone like Billie? We've logically explained things to her, we've argued, we've been kind....she will not listen.
Does that mean we quit trying?"
I agree with imaresistor; I think so too.
At some point, she may see what she cannot now. Whacking her over the head with truth isn't changing her mind or her heart, but it causes me to focus on her instead of Jesus.
Scripture
tells us in six passages to Shake Off the Dust Under Your Feet as a Testimony Against Them.
*** shake *** shake ***
Hey, that feels better! :o)
I will try to remember to pray for all the dusty souls at BBC on Sundays at 9:30. This is when Billie teaches, I believe.
I also will not respond to her posts. My Mama used to tell me that if I didn't have anything nice to say, to say nothing.
I'll try, Mama. I'll try.
Ima and Lizzie: I think you have hit the nail on the head, although it is hard for some of us who feel compelled to try to "fix" everything! There are some things we can't fix. We can continue to pray and sound the alarm to ANYONE who will LISTEN.
I am so thankful for the prayer warriors I have met on this blog. You have enriched my life.
:)
Ima,
I think when one sees scripture used out of context, ignored or twisted one has to speak up and point out error. That is Contending for the faith. (Jude)
We have no control over how they respond. I have asked Billie over and over about 1 Timothy 2 in relation to how Gaines handled the PW situation. (Also, 1 Corinthians 5) And if you have been reading this thread you would see how she treated the 1 Corinthians 5 teaching..totally twisting it to fit her premise.
That demands a response for others reading. The whole goal is to get people into the Word where the Holy Spirit can teach them if they are prayfully seeking truth. I know from my experience that continously overlooking scripture and ignoring obvious sin has a huge price tag on it. There comes a time when we are given over because we refuse truth. It is scary stuff and not to be taken lightly.
My opinion is that Miss Billie is worthy of our love, prayers and concern. And even more so because she is a teacher. (James)
If I get scriptural context wrong, I pray you guys will correct me. You have no idea how many times I have run to scripture to check on something that AOG, EZ, Junk, Padroc and others have referenced. I am very grateful for those on this blog that are deeply in the Word.
And it is not just Billie. We have had a 'pastor' on this blog that taught 'anointed king' nonsense instead of Priesthood of believer (the Veil was torn in two!) and another one who was trying to promote that Jesus does NOT have to be Lord of your life to be saved. (He IS, whether that person realizes it or not) And... that one did not have to bear fruit to be saved. He called sanctification, "works". Sheesh! There is a lot of scary teaching out there.
More sad news in mega churchland:
A very prominent and visable music director at a former church was recently fired for his relationship with 'porn'.
The church did not catch him but his wife did and called an elder and his boss to tell them. They had no choice but to fire him.
It seems they checked his office and found some evidence there on his computer, etc.
Here is what the wife told the elder: It is his own fault and I lay the responsibility right on his shoulders but there are some things you need to realize.
First of all, there is NO accountability of staff. And
secondly, they do not have enough to do in relation to the high salaries they make.
Had his wife not told and he was eventually caught, I doubt he would have been fired. As it is, the congregation (audience) does not know. He is just 'gone'. And so is his accountability to those he served and paid his salary for 20 years.
Since I know this guy, I am stunned. He is the last person I would ever suspect of such a thing. But, I want to say that this church has a very prominent ministry in the porn industry.
Someone needs to tell Billie the rapture has occurred at Bellevue.
It reminds me of the movie where everyone on the plane is wondering where everyone went. This is just before the plane crashes.
Hi BBc Forum
I think as I mentioned last nite the Letter Entitled "Pastor"s Junior Pit Crew flyer mailed to my children was not on the previuos thread to my knowledge.This Is a new propaganda ploy on their part.I don"t know if my children could qualify unless they sign junior loyalty pledges to the pastor....I don"t know if my children could qualify unless they have a tough background check to see if they stand and clap for ole stevie during service.Children who sleep thru Steve"s sermon"s will be further investigated....If parents have opposed Steve in the past children will only be allowed a partial Junior pit crew status until their tithes records are
checked by Ordained staff members
With ordanation or coronation is permissble for qualifed staff members.Pastors junior Pit Crew members must attend a new class by David Coombs and Brother Steve on different ways for applying Matthew
18...Or they will be asked to find another Team....Yes brother Steve Lets get all the children to focus on your Splendor.Funny who else wants to focus on his Splendor.Pastors junior Pit Crew?Not on MY Watch....
FNTD,
Sorry, I missed that. So would it be possible for you to shoot me a scan of that?
BBC forum would be glad to.Will be in touch soon...
LWF today:
“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” 1 Peter 4:7
Years ago, G. Campbell Morgan was a great expositor of the Word of God. He said, “I never lay my head on the pillow without thinking that perhaps before I awake, the final morning may have dawned. I never begin work without thinking that He may interrupt it to begin His own.” Every night before we go to sleep, we ought to say, “Jesus may come tonight,” and every day we get our tools and go to work, "This may be the last day of work that we do." We are to be looking for His return. We are also to be longing for His return. Are you praying for Jesus to return? If you love Him, you ought to be longing for His return. If we have Him in our hearts, we should also long to lay our eyes upon Him and walk with Him and talk with Him. “Even so, come Lord Jesus” (Revelation 22:20).
Concernedsbcer,
Thanks for your 6:36 am post.
What a sweet reminder....
I'm longing for the Lord's return...today would be fine with me!!!
So glad this earth isn't home!!
To be such a young grandmother :)
the world sure has changed just in my short life time.
Even in the world, there were things we could depend on and expect. Not anymore. Sad.
But glad this isn't it!!!
gmommy said:
Even in the world, there were things we could depend on and expect. Not anymore. Sad.
oc says:
Only He stays the same.....
a perspective......
My wife and I have had what now seem like only moments of the refreshing of the Holy Spirit in a church fellowship. Revival times. Heaven on earth almost. But those are only fleeting memories.
Seems to me that many of you had that for many years at BBC. God has a reason for the 'seasons' of refreshing. They are probably to prepare use for something coming up.
What is that? We do not know and must simple cherish the times of refreshing as they are a glimpse of what Heaven will be, probably.
I write this to encourage.
God is at work. His ways sometimes are beyond our understanding.
Just relax in the knowledge that He cares. He knows. He is working on your behalf.
Alright folks, for all of you that think I only complain and never suggest anything for discussion. How about the following topic, "Are pulpit committies really qualified to search out a new pastor and do they really do enough research before making a decision?" I will have further comments if this topic is accepted.
Thanks, amazed. I'll put that on my list. It won't be the very next topic because I'm already working on that, but I'll definitely consider it. Thanks!
Amazed: I would think that would depend on the Pastor Search Committee. I think our search committee (at Covenant) did an admirable job searching out one of the few conservative pastors left, to go along with the culture of our church.
Personally, I'm kinda wondering, after reading the whole transaction of SG coming, if they had their man picked on his preaching (perhaps) without even considering his pastoring.
I think it takes both.
DISCLAIMER: I am sure there are more than 2 or 3 conservative pastors left....I do think they are either settled and happy in their current church, or few and far between for Pastor Search Committees.
JM (very) HO
concernedsbcer said:
Personally, I'm kinda wondering, after reading the whole transaction of SG coming, if they had their man picked on his preaching (perhaps) without even considering his pastoring.
I think it takes both.
oc says:
Personally, I would prefer a 'pastor' over a 'preacher' anytime. That's just my preference. But which one is SG?
just sayin'.
oc.
concernedsbcer said:
DISCLAIMER: I am sure there are more than 2 or 3 conservative pastors left....I do think they are either settled and happy in their current church, or few and far between for Pastor Search Committees.
oc says:
There are those pastors left, but probably in smaller churches, not in mega churches. But If you want to pander to the Hollywood masses, you gotta hire a
'movie star'. Purpose Driven. That's what BBC did.
Just sayin'.
oc.
9:24 PM, September 08, 2007
oc says:
Personally, I would prefer a 'pastor' over a 'preacher' anytime. That's just my preference. But which one is SG?
just sayin'.
oc.
9:30 PM, September 08, 2007
response:
He's neither.
He's not a 'pastor' because he beats up the sheep.
He's not a 'preacher' because he twists God's Word to beat up the sheep.
I think they call that a 'wolf.'
Just a tidbit to share...
if not for the theology discussions on this blog...some of which I skimmed over at the time...
I wouldn't be grasping as much as I am in the pastor's class I am attending at RO.
Also because some things are very different at this church...it's like light bulbs are going off about how things got to where they are at BBC.
It continues to come back to the "man centered" prospective but it reaches farther than I realized....or I am understanding the impact more.
Hard to teach an old dog new tricks but I'm limping along!! :)
gmommy,
Amazing what comes to light when the teaching/preaching of the word is central to worship and Christ and His glory is central to all huh?
Word is in...
Mrs. Rogers joined Faith Baptist during the 11:00 service today.
Nass,
Should send a clear message but I think those able to hear don't need the message.
allofgrace,
It IS amazing and no where near what I was led to think would be the differences!
The pastor is not the "head" or the celebrity of the church.
Who would have thunk it....it's NOT free will vs. Grace at all!!!!
When the awe and worship is not on the man teaching....amazing how much changes!!
I also met another BBC refugee.
Does anyone else see the irony of Mrs. R. joining Faith on the SAME day that they are " celebrating" SG's tenure at BBC?
just sayin'
gmommy wrote:
"Should send a clear message but I think those able to hear don't need the message."
It should. Sadly, I don't think any explanation is needed. I hope the Rogers family will enjoy their new church home. With all the other BBC refugees attending there now, everyone should feel right at home.
Could anyone have ever imagined we'd see this day come?
It's true:
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS
sotl said...
"Does anyone else see the irony of Mrs. R. joining Faith on the SAME day that they are " celebrating" SG's tenure at BBC?"
I remember when SG was "voted in" and he had all the staff collected in a room together and made this big spill of a speech about how he was going to know everybody and their families on a first name basis and how "involved" they were going to be. To date, neither he or Donna have darkened most of the staff's doors, let alone taken the time to know their names. He stays locked in his inner sanctum with his plush leather sofa and cushy barefoot carpet. Unless you are of the "elect", he looks over your head, never even bothering to nod.
I pray that the liars, er,uh
" leaders " at BBC will not spin her decision to join another church into something nefarious against her.
I think the lack of building a relationship with his 'elders' in the faith at BBC is exemplified by the apparent disapproval and departure of Mrs. Rogers. It is a blatant example of his self-absorption and sense of self-importance. He has a 'papal' attitude about his position. Well, it might be insecurity but that's straining for an excuse.
mom 4 said:
He stays locked in his inner sanctum with his plush leather sofa and cushy barefoot carpet. Unless you are of the "elect", he looks over your head, never even bothering to nod.
6:25 PM, September 09, 2007
It never ceases to amaze me at the
sins that people will overlook just to be able to stand in line to kiss his ring.
Bellevue's New Motto:
Steve's Right, your wrong, any questions?
This is a very sad day in the history of Bellevue Baptist Church.
SAD........SAD.........SAD!!!!!!!!!
I totally understand but still find it so impossible to believe that Mrs. Rogers joined another church. What a bittersweet day this must have been for her.
:(
You know, I don't want to go private....then we'd miss new friends like our housewife!.....but I wish there was a way to keep the...ummm....immature posters off so we could just post.
Nass, you do such a good job....I'm sorry we are so high maintenance! You will be using the last of those beautiful Minnesota autumn days in moderation when you could be out on the lake.
:(
sickofthelies said...
I pray that the liars, er,uh
" leaders " at BBC will not spin her decision to join another church into something nefarious against her.
6:36 PM, September 09, 2007
response:
Oh, they're planning their attack right now. I'm sure that once SG was finished spitting flames, he got right on his spin - I mean speech. He probably already assigned his plants (agents) to strategic posts, no pun intended.
For example, how long do you think it will be before billie comes in here blaming Mrs. Rogers about something or another? Let's say... for purposely stealing SG's thunder on his very special day (all the while swearing she totally supports him).
Any other guesses? I'm sure whatever it is, it will be totally ridiculous.
How's that for a conspiracy theory?
concernedSBCer said...
You know, I don't want to go private....then we'd miss new friends like our housewife!..
Aw. Thanks!! That's very sweet. =)
NO, Billie Tapp is going to insult everyone's intelligence as she tells us that Mrs. R. is just being influenced by her friends...
Of course, what that means is that
Billie Tapp is perfectly capable of thinking for herself, but Mrs. R. is not.
I'd like to see Billie Tapp say that to Mrs. R.'s face..I think Mrs. R. would tell her how the cow ate the cabbage..Billie has already tried to pass thattheory by us on this blog in the past.
Perhaps it was a trial balloon.
SOTL,
Not only has Billie hinted at that "theory" here, she's come right out and stated it in e-mails. She's got a huge mailing list that I had the dubious distinction of being on for a while.
Comments from anyone presuming negative motives for Mrs. R moving her membership will not see the light of day in this forum. She made the decision she felt led to make. Let's just wish her and her family the best and leave it at that.
"Perhaps it was a trial balloon."
No problem.
Wandering in the Wilderness.
We find ourselves in the wilderness of Sin today. See Ex 16 and 17. As God’s people, we are wandering there, just as Israel did. One might ask why? For the same reason.
Deut 8: 2And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
3And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
We see the wilderness of Sin in Ezekiel 30:15,16 again. Some will say that this prophecy was fulfilled when Nebuchadrezzar Sacked Egypt.
However, (Isaiah 31:3Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit. When the LORD shall stretch out his hand, both he that helpeth shall fall, and he that is holpen shall fall down, and they all shall fail together.) seems to indicate a broader meaning for Egypt.
If we view Isaiah 19 in light of this broader meaning, we come up with some pretty fearful prophecy toward man in general. Just read through it and replace “Egypt” with “men”.
When one reads Ezekiel 29-32 with all this in mind, it really resembles a lot of the imagery that we see in Rev 17,18,19. Then Ezekiel 33 follows with a stiff warning….a current warning.
If you want to say…..humbug….”we are not in the wilderness”…..
You might want to look at John the Baptist. That is where he started his ministry.
Wilderness
Let’s exhort each other to avoid the same mistake Israel made in the Wilderness. Lest we wind up in the same place they did.
Heb 3:12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Mrs Rogers joining Faith today, SAD........
Yes. My heart ached for her. She seemed so.....vulnerable....or something. I just wanted to go up front and hug her....
Hopefully she has found family there. Folks that will care for her and minister to her. Just love her.
Folks, I don't care what side of the fence you are on....what they have done to this family just ain't right....not any way you slice it.....Gonna be pay day some day.....
ezekiel said...
Mrs Rogers joining Faith today, SAD........
Yes. My heart ached for her. She seemed so.....vulnerable....or something. I just wanted to go up front and hug her....
Hopefully she has found family there. Folks that will care for her and minister to her. Just love her.
------------------------
I pray the Lord will bless Mrs. R
in a special way in her new church home. Count her losses these past
2 yrs:
-Her husband
-Her pastor
-Her place of honor
-Her ministry
-Her church
And add to those losses, her deep disappointment and sorrow over
PW and the battle of defending her
deceased husband's honor.
May the God of all comfort restore, renew and refresh her in the new pasture where He has led her.
Personally I think Ms. R may have moved her membership eventually even if things had not turned out at BBC as they did...but that's just me. She's a much stronger person, IMHO, than some think. I'm quite certain she has both the intellectual and spiritual acuity to make a wise decision concerning church membership among others. To me it's a joyful day for her...she's found a new church family, and I'm sure that decision was bathed in prayer. I doubt seriously that any of the thousands who have left BBC, did so flippantly, Ms. R included. Let's just rejoice for her and the thousands who have found new church families or are in the process of doing so. Rom. 8:28
Ex 22:22Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
23If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;
The pastor at Covenant Baptist (on Houston Levee 1 block north of Poplar, just 1 block east of GBC) began a serman series last night that you might be interested in. On Sunday nights he is preaching through Exodus and he is starting a series within a series on the 10 Commandments. It'll start next Sunday night at 6:00. Just wanted you guys to know.
(Sunday am he just started 1 Peter after finishing 1 & 2 Timothy)
After going through at least four church splits due to preacher problems, one tends to become gun shy about taking any new church at face value. You tend to wonder what is hidden from view that no one has bothered to ask about. A good example is GBC and the difficulty they are having in finding a new pastor. I'm sure their past problems play into the equation and the membership is probably getting a little weary from it all.
Amazed,
Sort of makes you wonder if the folks doing the search have requirements that God doesn't....
Do you suppose it really takes Him this long to choose who He wants for that position?
Amazed: True. However, I have to wonder if, instead of that they are having difficulty in finding a new pastor but instead rather that they are being very cautious in choosing a new pastor is the situation at GBC. With all they have gone through, and the healing that needed to occur, a year doesn't seem excessive to me. Rather to go slowly, check, recheck, pray, pray some more...than to rush and make a mistake.
Just my thoughts.
Sometimes having a fast food society mentality is not the wisest approach.
Sometimes it's all about timing....His timing.....not ours.
Israelites wandered 40 years....did it take that long for God to know where they should go? Of course not. It took that long for His Will to be done with that group of people so they could move on.
As the old saying goes...
"Haste makes Waste."
If y'all want to hold off on this discussion, a new topic is coming up shortly.
concernedsbcr,
I agree with you. Timing is everything.
However, knowing some of the people involved and their history with BBC....are they looking for that leader that will be strong enough.....or that man with a pastors heart?
I hope you are right.
Ezekiel: You make a good point. I pray they are looking for a Pastor's heart with God's solid call.
(A CALL not a career)
I guess only time will tell.
Sorry, Nass......This topic just interests me.....timing and what churchs should be looking for.....and one of patience (not my strong suit; still working on it.) What I have discovered is that God's timing is not hours and we would be much better to wait for Him.
OKAY, SHEEPS! TIME TO MOVE UP! A NEW TOPIC AWAITS.
I decided to go ahead and use "amazed's" idea next as there seems to be some renewed interest in it now.
Thank you,
NBBCOF
Reading with interest the comments about Mrs. Adrian Rogers moving her membership from Bellevue Baptist to Faith Baptist. I cannot help but think of the old adage, "One man's loss is another's man's gain"...and I feel so encouraged for Mrs. Rogers. Faith Baptist is the recepient of a great gift in my opinion. Not only is this lady a great lady in her own right...look who she shared her life with. Can you all just imagine the knowledge she has to share with her Christian brothers and sisters at Faith? This church is blessed with her decision to join them and what a tremendous loss this is for Bellevue.
My prayers are with Mrs. Rogers as she moves into new realms. May God bless this gracious lady.
Well, I said I'd join Faith whenever Mrs. Rogers did, so I guess next Sunday it's my turn. Bye bye Bellevue.
I have been visiting the same SS class she attends on Sunday mornings at Faith, and I am looking forward to getting to know her
Reckon they'll remove her private parking place at BBC (or has it been done already?)?
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