Fortunately for GBC, they had a good set of bylaws, and BBC does not.
Obviously there are differences in the two churches, but there are many similarities as well. Compare and contrast those here.
Remember to sign the Petition to Call Bellevue Baptist Church into an Open Business Meeting and forward the link to your fellow Bellevue members.
567 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 567 Newer› Newest»amy asked "Does anyone know if what was on You Tube was BBC's video or an individual. No offense to who ever took it, but it didn't seem professional. I would think if it's an individuals private film, BBC wouldn't own the copyright. Maybe they could take anything that has "Bellevue" on it out and re load it."
It was an individuals shots and not taken by the Bellevue cameras. I believe the position of the church is that all video is unauthorized except that taken by the church. I don't see why the church wouldn't post the full meeting on bellevue.org. I can understand the copyright position but what's to hide? We were there and everyone knows what happened.
A glimpse into the future?
Hendersonville, Tennessee Church
" rocks " for seeker sensitive Jesus .....
HENDERSONVILLE TENNESSEE CHURCH ROCKS ON
Bellevue leadership forces removal of video of kangaroo court business meeting 3/25/07.
Why????????????????????????
Were they afraid of what else might be revealed on the other topics not yet loaded on youtube & savingbellevue.com.
Were they afraid the other clips might show Donna Gaines sister & her sisters daughter standing to vote when only Bellevue members were allowed to vote?????
Does anyone know for sure it was Donna Gaines sister & her sisters daughter that were sitting beside Donna Gaines parents that stood to vote when it was only Bellevue members allowed to vote.
If this was Donna Gaines sister who is reportedly not a member of Bellevue, but of a Presbyterian church, who was reportedly standing to vote..is this not a lack of integrity on the entire Dodds' family.
Why are the ones who have no association with our church the ones most adamant about the PD concerns and the petition? Do they not think we have the ability to work out our issues without their help? Personally it's insulting to me. I resent being talked down to by some out of town person who hasn't the years of association with our fellowship as many of us on this blog. I appreciate what Tim is doing and with the exception of signing a web petition hope he is successful. I have talked to a number of people who read but don't post. They always bring up their concerns about the "outsiders" who seems to revel in our situation. I think as long as we have the Tim's and Charlie's working toward resolutions then we need to keep our focus toward members. I've never once thought about involving myself in the Germantown issues. Yes we are all a part of the body of Christ but I would never presume to know more than they. I am certain that Germantown has enough spiritual leaders to resolve their issues without my voicing my opinions.
Watchman,
I am speechless.......
Upside down said....
I resent being talked down to by some out of town person who hasn't the years of association with our fellowship as many of us on this blog.
.....They always bring up their concerns about the "outsiders" who seems to revel in our situation.
I am an outsider and I certainly don't revel in your situation at all- it breaks my heart you are going through this. I think people are frustrated for BBC members in search of the truth, who are being stonewalled by the administration at every turn. I would hope you see suggestion and comments as people trying to help you feel less powerless. I know from what happened at GBC last year, it really hits home when the boundaries of truth get skewed, and it seems genuine concerns and hurt goes un validated by those who should be anxious to support and uplift you.
I think it’s important the PDC movement be discussed and information shared for all of us. If folks aren’t informed- the Last Supper can be portrayed as in the link Watchman just posted. The “Whatever It Takes” (tm Rick Warren) method doesn’t justify what your leadership is doing, but gives you a glimpse into where this is all headed, and maybe members could stop it before it reaches the point of no return
Please don’t think we are here ( and I know I can’t speak for everyone, but I can speak for those I do know) to do anything but encourage and support those that are hurting. Any unsolicited advice is given out of kindness, respect, and concern.
amy, I saw your note to watchman...that you were speechless. I am now listening to the service of April 1. I must admit that I found it almost impossible to get through the music opening. But once the preaching has started I'm becoming more open to the message that is being delivered and not the messenger. He is speaking of those willing to be fools for Christ and making sacrifices for our Lord. Did you listen to the message or just view the website? He explains in his message the reason for their approach. I begin to wonder how our missionaries must adjust their approach to reach the world for Christ. How we can be so quick to judge these who are reaching those unchurched in our country. Personally I am currently enjoying his message at this point..will let you know my final thoughts at the end of the message.
Watchman,
I actually emailed this guy today and ask him if he was you!
He is also known as theWatchman
Upside-
No I haven't listened to the sermons and am anxious to hear your concluding thoughts.
The picture of the Last Supper and the Northeast Compatibility Questionnaire, were enough for me. If you have to stoop to levels like this, how precious and holy is the God we serve being portrayed? I believe we should represent God, and our church, as he has made himself known to us. I am all for going out into the world and bringing them in, and in welcoming anyone who comes to my church seeking God, but I don't believe in turning the church into the world to reach the lost. JMHO
Amy said...
Upside-
No I haven't listened to the sermons and am anxious to hear your concluding thoughts.
The picture of the Last Supper and the Northeast Compatibility Questionnaire, were enough for me. If you have to stoop to levels like this, how precious and holy is the God we serve being portrayed? I believe we should represent God, and our church, as he has made himself known to us. I am all for going out into the world and bringing them in, and in welcoming anyone who comes to my church seeking God, but I don't believe in turning the church into the world to reach the lost.
REPLY:
AMEN, Sister, AMEN. There in lies the problem. Churches becoming LIKE the WORLD!!!!
Perhaps this is poorly written, but one could infer from the Q&A below the leaders of this church advocate getting drunk on Saturday and leading the church on Sunday.
NORTHEAST COMPATABILITY QUESTIONNAIRE
Does the thought of going to church make you want to puke?
Y/N
Do you think the place would burn down if you walked through the door?
Y/N
Do you think the people inside are more messed up than you are?
Y/N
Do you have tough questions about the Bible and God?
Y/N
Would you come check it out if you knew that you wouldn’t be judged because of your political or spiritual beliefs?
Y/N
Would you like to attend a church that has NEVER passed a plate, or begged for money?
Y/N
Would you like to meet some people who will care about you, even if they know who you really are?
Y/N
Would you like to attend a church that’s so much fun that even a hangover wouldn’t keep you away?
Y/N
Would you like to meet some people who can deal with the truth…even when the truth ain’t pretty?
Y/N
Would you like to attend a church service that makes SKEPTICS feel comfortable and the RELIGIOUS squirm…for a change?
Y/N
We answered “YES” to all of these questions, that’s why we created a church for people like us.
Amy,
You ought to check out the music video on the Northeast site. Stunning and sad.
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world!
I think you can welcome people and accept them into the church as visitors without validating what is clearly sinful activity as okay and something they should continue. This is a little too close to encouraging drunkenness IMHO. Alcohol kills people.
I guess that's my point.
Proverbs,
I didn't find the music link you refered to.
I did listen to the first song on the sermon Fools Rush In link. The music was too loud and I couldn't understand a word the girl was singing(... I am my mother after all!!)
I go to the contemporary service at GBC and this was a little much, even by my standards.
Amy,
Click on "Media" first, from there select "Music Video"
If you can't get it to work, you can just turn on Rock 103, FM 100, FM 103.5, The River, or Kix 106 instead. You will literally hear the exact same thing.
concernedSBCer said-
Why is there more anger at perceived hatefulness coming from this blog than towards leadership who silenced an "amening" man, ignored an abuse victim, or arrested a 15 year old girl in a worship service?
At the very least it seems disingenuous. There seems to be a double standard that I don't understand. Willingness to "forgive and forget" broken laws and misused scripture but a harshness and unforgiving attitude towards those who have requested obedience to the Word of God and the laws of man.
7:20 AM, April 07, 2007
____________
I am upset at what happened to
those people then boy who is now a grown man with his own family, I am also concerned for the family who they told stop saying Amen in service and also the teenager who was arrested. I have a heart for hurting people. But I am not even a member. Your church arrests people for no good reason, have they arrested someone before or is this the first time you heard of such a thing? I think your church laymen and securtiy are dangerous, if they arrest a person for no good reason what else will they do to one person they might do it. and adding to that they protected a know danger a child molester, that man is a real danger.
Charlie & Amy, one thing that I'm learning is that I am not the one to define worship. I guess it should be noted that Jesus wasn't preaching in the Temples of his day and the religious men of his time were certainly challenging his approach to God's Word. Little did they know he wrote the book.
I have concluded listening to the sermon. I can't say that I found any issues with the sermon or the stated beliefs of the fellowship. I did note no mention in the video or site about baptism. I enjoyed the message and it really got me to thinking about sacrificial love and the impact it could have if we loved others as Christ loved us. In one of the video clips it showed a church in Africa and their unique worship experience. But isn't it all about our heart, our relationship and not necessarily about our methodology? Before you make assumptions, know that I'm older than the hills and have never waved my hands in the air in praise. But I'm coming to realize that we need to reach the world for Christ and maybe I should be more open to a preacher who is delivering the Word of God to the lost than quite honestly I don't care enough about.
I listened to the message without judging the messenger. If I was without Christ I would hope that someone cared enough about me to go to any extreme to introduce me to my Lord so that he could be my Savior as well. I remember the One who did go to any extreme measure to show His love for me. The youth of today are more visual and have differing attitudes about life than I. Personally I am thankful for a church which is attempting to make a relationship with Christ a reality for those unchurched in our country. I say listen to the message and then tell me that it wasn't a message which Christ taught....show you love for Him by loving one another.
Some thoughts on the Hendersonville cult.
#1.. In the name of not offending men, they offend a Holy GOD.
#2..In the name of "not judging anyone", they judge 200 years of Christianity as being "inept" and "phariseeically religious ", " and unable to fulfill GODS call for every beleiver, unlike these "hip" , and "new" , and " more worldly and sinner sensitive types.
#3 In the neame of reaching the world, they have become just like the world, and imitaters of the world, and have led the Church into unholy worldly and sensual compromise with the spirit of this age, and are thus an enemy of GOD...
Other than that, maybe we can glean something of value if we dig deep enough, ..sorta like looking for an edible apple peel in a dumpster behind the 7-11.
So this is what being a good Christian has evolved into?
Looking for apple peels , rather than the VINE ?
watchman, certainly don't want to make this blog site a debate over another church but I believe that you would have found Jesus' ways to be quite surprising should you have lived in His day. Why so quick to judge? Have you listened to the message?
upside down said...
Charlie & Amy, one thing that I'm learning is that I am not the one to define worship. I guess it should be noted that Jesus wasn't preaching in the Temples of his day and the religious men of his time were certainly challenging his approach to God's Word. Little did they know he wrote the book.
The Bible Says:
Matthew 26:55
In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
Mark 14:49
I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.
Luke 19:47-48
47 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
48 And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him.
Luke 22:53
When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
Amen TIM
False teaching only thrives in the absence of Sound Doctrine and those willing to use it.
Actually it's the LORD himself who defines worship...in His word..what it is and what it isn't...and He's much more particular as to how He's worshiped than most are about how they worship Him. Cain thought he was worshiping...so did Saul..the list could go on, but you get the idea.
Something to think about: upside down, many places in scripture obedience and love are interchanged. Jesus Himself said, IF you love Me, you will obey ME.
Grace never nullifies obedience or the Law of Christ! Legalism is when you take an amoral issue, such as smoking or drinking or dancing and then use that amoral issue and judge others by it. Under grace we can choose to put ourselves under any amoral standard, but we become legaiistic when we put others under that standard also. That is sin.
Legalism has NOTHING to do with obedience to the Law of Christ and submission to what scripture plainly states as sin. To call someone on sin is what we are to do and that is in no wise "legalistic", if that sin is what the Word of God calls sin. To lie is to sin. To hide a homosexual pedophile is a sin not only against God but also against the state of TN. To threaten a brother and call him, hetzbullah, is a sin. To climb over a fence to gain access into a community where there is a no trespassing sign and a fence to keep unwasnted people out is a sin. It is lawlessness and the scripture is very clear that this is sin. To love the ungodly and give them the tithes and offerings of the saints and have that money go to those who are for murdering unborn babies and homosexuality and mock the word of God by having women in the pulpit over men is sin. It is impossible to acquate any of this with an argument on "legalism". God is very clear in His word concerning all this.
Karen, as to that good question: why are we all sinners when we were not there in the garden of God in Eden, we inherited the sin nature from Adam. There are two types of sin we are guilty of. First, we have a sin nature and we sin because we were born with that fallen nature of Adam. We inherited it from Adam and it is passed down through the male. That is why the Messiah, Jesus could be born of a woman, Mary, and yet be without the sin nature. Secondly, we are sinners because we commit sinful acts or acts of sin. So, we are sinners by nature and we are sinners because we ourselves commit sin.
The Pharisees never chanllenged Jesus as to the Word of God, but they challenged Him as to the oral law and the Mishnah. Those are the Laws men made up, such as we do in the Baptist Church over amoral issues that are not from God but from man.
Jesus never broke the Law of God but He did break the laws of men and it hasn't changed much since them, in my opinion. There are still those who go by the Word of God, and there are still the "supper dooper legalists" who are adding their own laws to improve upon the Word of God
Rod,
That was exactly what I was going to say. :P
Love: do we really know what love means according to the Bible? It is to meet the need, the need, the need of someone. That need could be a rebuke or even removal from the fellowship like Paul did in the Cor. chruch. It usually comes with some sacrifice on the part of the one loving. It could mean giving up money or sharing a room in your home. It could mean ministering to a spiritual need or mentoring, etc. But it does NOT mean to "play nice and speak words that won't offend and make everyone feel good about themselves."
Jesus Himself IS love. He said of some: your mother is a snake and your father the devil. He threw tables over and told Peter: get thee behind me satan. He called a woman gentile a dog. So, love has to do with meeting the NEED of someone you.
Just as with our own children, love can take the form of a spanking or a hug. A grounding or "sitting on the Naughty chair" or or the reading of the Bible. It takes on the form of whatever is needed by the one loved.
Love is (according to the Bible) to speak the truth. John has devoted an entire epistle to "love in truth". If there is no truth there is NO love. In fact Proverbs tells us the the one who lie to us is the one who HATES the person or persons he is lieing to. That's not me who says this! This is God who says that.
Therefore, we can get some Biblical insight into those who are lying to us.
rod said
"we have a sin nature and we sin because we were born with that fallen nature of Adam. We inherited it from Adam and it is passed down through the male. That is why the Messiah, Jesus could be born of a woman, Mary, and yet be without the sin nature."
Please elaborate what you mean by this stastement?
The Love of money is a root of all evil.
The man of God is transparent, without anything hidden. He speaks the truth, one with the other, because we are all a part of the Body of Christ. Satan is the father of all lies and liars. There is no truth in satan.
When we see numbers posted on professions of faith based on an invitation that went something like this: God loves you..accept Jesus into your heart...
We are in trouble.
What are they being saved from?
Jesus' first recorded teaching in Matthew and Mark were: Repent.
That is why announcing the number of professions of faith mean nothing. What are they like a year from now. Do they have a new nature? Are they Born Again growing in Holiness and consciously doing all they can to obey scripture? (I should say 'fighting' to do that because it is very hard to walk in the light)
We are told to 'examine ourselves' and test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. The only way to do that is to obey scripture. Where else can we go?
That is why the Word is so important.
Worship: We are to Worship in Spirit and Truth. Boy, try doing a study on what that means sometime!!! Yikes.
WatchingHistory, Adam was created without sin. But, Adam was unconfirmed in that sinless nature until he was tested.
God tested the angels and we know that one third of them failed the test. One third reabelled against the LORD and they were then confirmed in that state of rebellion. However two thirds of the angelic hoast were obedient to the LORD, and they were then confirmed in their obedience.
Adam and Eve were creaated sinless but God tested them. He had two trees in the midst of His garden in Edan. How many trees were in the garden of God? Millions? I don't know, but they were able to eat of every single tree in that garden. For all we know the two trees in the midst of the garden that God chose to place there, one next to the other were both orange trees. We don't know what they were but the test was this: you are able to eat of all the atrees of the garden except if you eat of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil, you will die. If you eat of the tree of life you will live forever.
Eve chose to listen to the satan and we are told she was deceived. The tree looked good. It was pleasant to the sight, and she desired to be wise and like God. She believed the lie rather than God. She failed athe test. Now she is no longer righteous but she is a sinner in rebellion against God.
Now Adam was not deceived. He chose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Now, man was a sinner separated from God and he was now choosing for himself what is good and what is evil for himself in his own eyes, rather than trusting God to know what is good and what is evil for him.
We know what happened. They were driven out of the garden of God in Eden and God was gracious to make promises to them of a coming Messiah as well as making a way for restoration.
However, the corruption of man was passed down throughout all these generations. That is why we are all born sinners. We inherited that sin nature from our father Adam. When we come to Jesus Christ we become new, born again into newness of life and we have the old nature of Adam we are to reckon dead and burried with Christ, and a new nature, that of Christ! We are children of God! We can live in that new resurrected nature, "for me to live is Christ" or we can fall back to our old adamic nature. In that old naturea we cannot please God.
We do not become sinners because we sin. We sin because we were born with a sin nature from Adam or father.
In Christ Jesus we have a new nature.
Upside down said...
... one thing that I'm learning is that I am not the one to define worship
Different worship styles are fine -I have no problem with that. I would expect worship, and church outreach, to be reverent and consistent to what we know to be true about God and his desires for us.
That scene of the Last Supper that church has on their site portrays Jesus knocking back a few and enjoying himself with his buddies. The Bible paints a whole different portrait of our Lord the night before He was crucified. IMO the gravity of that last meal together should never be taken lightly or in jest.
I don’t think there is anything wrong at all with electric guitars and contemporary worship. You can still cater to different musical tastes- the one example I saw I didn’t think edified God. And that's where I have issues.
rod
Is your view traducianist or creationist?
Is sin imputed by seminal relationship or legal, forensic decree of God?
What is the predominate view of SBC?
I allowed myself to get "off topic" last night. Don't let me do it tonight.
WatachingHisstory:
In the Hebrew man is (nefesh) of two parts, material and immaterial. The nefesh, is both the body and the soul and then there is the spirit.
I understand Roman Catholics and Reformed theologians prefer creationism.
I.m not sure this is a place for this type of conversation. We know that God rested on the seventh day of Creation because His work of Creation was Finished. Gen. 2: 1-3 and in Hebrews 7:10 there is a rational and moral act on the part of unborn Levi. In Gen. 2, verse 7 does not allowfor the breath of life to be abreathed into anyone else other than Adam.
God does not create a "sinful soul",
Again, I look at all scripture from a Jewish perspective and the nefesh, body and soul of man is a union that develope together.
Traduciianism is a comfortable view for an Arminian.
WatchingHisstory, there is a difference between committing sin, breaking one of Gods Laws kokr missing the mark that God has set, and therefore being guilty of that act, and being born with a sin nature!
I knew what you were fishing for but FYI I'm not a traditional defined calvinist or arminian. Both have been perverted, in my opinion, and taken on a life of their own by those who enjoy arguing.
I just read the statement of faith at godwhy.com (Northeast church in Henderson TN). Pretty standard evangelical stuff...article 4 on salvation isn't too bad; it even references Christ as Lord (and the concept of repentance is sorta there, though they avoided using that exact word). But I gotta believe that some words got left out in the typing or copy/paste of article 2, which says:
2. JESUS CHRIST - We believe in the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless resurrection, in His ascension and intercession for the saints and in His personal physical return to this earth in power and glory to establish the new Heaven and new earth. (Isaiah 9 6; Matthew 1:22, 23; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Acts 1:9-11; Romans 1:3,4; I Corinthians 15:3,4; I Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 4:14,15)
Anybody notice anything important missing there??
Rod
There is a practical result of our theology and I believe that the mess at Bellevue is a reflection of faulty theology. I am seeking to understand that.
off line
WatchingHisstory, I don't think there are any Arminians at Bellevue. At least in the sense that one can lose his salvation. I agree with you that our doctrine dictates our actions, but the problems at Bellevue are there not so much due to doctrine as to sin. There is a striving for power and control and just out and out sin and because there in not any accountability with those in high places we have the mess we have now.
TO ALL: One sunday morning, the pastor saw little Davey staring up at the large plaque that hung in the church's foyer. The plaque was covered with names and small American flags were mounted on either side of it.
"Pastor Steve" the boy asked "what is this?"
"Well, son, it's a memorial to all the young men and women who died in the service" the pastor explained.
They stood together quietly staring at the memorial plaque. Little Davey softly asked, " Which service? The 9:00 or the 11:00?"
Springer said,
Actually, if you have left Bellevue, you have no business signing the petition. Because it no longer is your business. Your business is your new church home.
12:24 PM, April 10, 2007
OC says. NO longer their business? What a big shot you are, telling them it's not their business. Guess it's not God's business either. This concerns all God's people, as it concerns more than those beyond the local congregation. You need to take a look at the 'big picture' instead of concentrating on your local hydrant.
Junk: Please email me. Thanks.
bellevuebaptistchurchopenforumers:
I have been bombarded with emails filled with curiosity over the Loney family, but oddly enough, very few (actually none) seeking my broad expertise in the field of medical science. So, as a one time offer, for those who send a request, I will send them a 'daily nugget' from the "Loney Family Archive of Heartwarming Quotes".
This service is free, but for those who wish to make a donation, please send to "The Loney Wellness Clinic/Landlady's lawnmower shed" via PayPal. While not tax deductable, donations may also include autographed Barney Miller photos, pickled dove eggs, and/or any assortment of non perishable canned meat products. These may be left at your convenience in any of the empty milkcrates in the garage below my upstairs garage aparment, or in the frontseat of the Squire. The driver's side doesn't have a door handle, but it doesn't have a window either so there shouldn't be a problem.
As my mother used to tell me as she dropped supper down to me through the gaps in the porch planks: "Bill, if I've told you once, I've told you a hundred times...the stuff in the dryer's lent filter is NOT cotton candy!"
Spoken like an angel mama, an angel.
William T. Loney, M.D.
Junk,
His redeeming death. Oh, your question was rhetorical, right? :)
Junk99mail said:
2. JESUS CHRIST - We believe in the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless resurrection, in His ascension and intercession for the saints and in His personal physical return to this earth in power and glory to establish the new Heaven and new earth. (Isaiah 9 6; Matthew 1:22, 23; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Acts 1:9-11; Romans 1:3,4; I Corinthians 15:3,4; I Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 4:14,15)
Anybody notice anything important missing there??
I know! I know!
William T. Loney, M.D.
PS...I really do know
oc and his quick trigger finger!
Due to my recent 'vacation' courtesy of the Tenn. State Police & the Tenn. Department of Corrections and my subsequent induction into the South Memphis Crips club, a question has arisen: Malik, who I understood to be the club president, mentioned something about 'blood in/blood out'; with him knowing I am a highly esteemed physician, do you suppose he was suggesting that us club members get together and organize a blood drive? Probably so.
William T. Loney, M.D.
Peace Out!
Dr. Loney & oc,
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But the more I think about it the more I'm convinced it was a typo (but a significant one!) The words "sinless resurrection" don't fit together, and most similar statements say something like ""in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection", etc. But just to be sure, I just sent an email to the church's pastor asking about it. I can report back when I get a response, if anyone is interested.
Oh, and Doc Loney ... is there any other kind of canned meat product besides "non-perishable"?? Ya gotta love anything that lists "tripe" as an ingredient!
Dr. Loney,
From some experience I can tell you, There will be blood, there will be a drive, but there will be no 'blood drive', so to speak.
Take cover, my friend.
OC.
Junk said:
"Oh, and Doc Loney ... is there any other kind of canned meat product besides "non-perishable"?? Ya gotta love anything that lists "tripe" as an ingredient!"
Junk, while most canned meat products are indeed 'non-perishable', 10 minutes after the lid is off, things really start to go downhill fast.
As for tripe. Oh tripe...thou art the steak of discarded animal parts/and their byproducts. I can remember the days of my childhood, after a cool dip in old man Sprague's oxidation pond, we would lay on the bank, basking in the sun, nibbling on a fresh cut of tripe that the kind slaughterhouseman on Miller's road gave us with his customary wink and a smile! Oh, how we thought the tripe and carefree days would never end. But much like the color and texture of the tripe, times changed. Good memories though Junk, good memories.
William T. Loney, M.D.
(sitting here wondering how many folks are looking up the word "tripe" and saying "ewwwwww!")
off-balance
oc,
If you are suggesting that Malik and the rest of club members from Cell Block D were not sincere in their desire to sponsor a blood drive, then you may not be familiar with the South Memphis Crip club. For instance, they made good on the 'beatdown' they promised me upon my arrival...the prison 'tat' they vowed to put on my forehead(against my will of course) was another promise they kept. So I think in all fairness, the 'blood in/blood out' blood drive will probably come to fruition also. But thanks for your opinion.
William T. Loney, M.D.
It just occured to me that the statement that was credited to Jamie Parker that in five years you wouldn't even recognize Bellevue. Well, I don't recognize it now and it's only been 18 months. Certainly hope everyone is proud of that.
Doc,
OK, prepare to give til it hurts. Hope your heart is in it, so to speak.
OC.
Junk,
Please don't go over to the anti-tripe side. While it is an acquired taste, it also has other uses. For instance, when the winters grew cold, mama Loney would never send us out without wearing our tripe caps. And when little league started, I was the envy of the team with my tripe glove. And when the game went into extra innings, I always had extra energy by nibbling on it while I daydreamed out in right field. So please, as the song goes, 'all I am saying...is give tripe a chance'.
William T. Loney, M.D.
I thought Non-Sequitur was a hoot today. I think I recognize Mssrs. Coombs and Miller on the stern there...
(For some strange reason, the web site may ask for your gender and birth year.)
oc,
I almost forgot...as I was leaving the other day, Malik mentioned that when he and the other club members got out, I was going to be 'glocked'...I think it's like a South Memphis Crip new member mixer. You are cordially invited. Would you mind bringing some sporks? Thanks
William T. Loney, M.D.
Oh, Doc...not to worry! I am a true blue tripe-ite. I was just thinking of the potential reactions of some of our friends who just don't have the "stomach" for it.
all2jesus
Thanks for the giggle. :o)
all2jesus,
Back up and look at yesterday's (4-10), too.
Junk,
I am glad to see, even though bigotry abounds, that you are not an anti-tripite.
But the question will be asked: what do you do with the 4th stomach? Can anyone say...Gizzard Pinata!
Good night tripe lovers, you rock!
William T. Loney,MD
Doc,
Sorry, I'm going to have to miss the 'mixer'. But, in the spirit of the 'brotherhood' I have to tell you this, "for all you do, this Glock's for you".
Take cover, my friend.
OC.
Church Switchers, Change Agents, and Agenda Driven Surveys:
Paul Proctor once again, nails the change agent enemies of GOD for all to see.
CHANGE AGENTS, CHURCH SWITCHERS, AND AGENDA DRIVEN SURVEYS
A letter from a Pastor calls upon the Church to repent and to return to TRUTH WITHOUT compromise.
As sent to the Berean Call :
I think, in my opinion that many evangelicals today, including a vast
amount of our Beloved [denomination], has drifted away from the safe
moorings of God's Holy Word.
Moreover, I have watched for the past 40 years and heard, "the incessant
call for change in our Churches, so we changed". Into what?
We have all been seduced into politics in church, and mystical
teachings, [charismatic extremism], and hundreds of Bible translations
until the word is diluted and ineffective.
We are all, very off base. We should all "repent and renounce our
willingness to compromise."
I have friends who are very high ranking SBC folks-who are now
attending, "Desert Father's Mystical Retreats", Roman Catholic
teachings, and learning Transcendtal Meditation-TM, mantras, and other
Zen and Buddhist teachings.
The things that I say, may surprise you some, but you know, this is
hitting the bull's eye and where many of our Churches are stagnated in
the slough of despond-And are stuck in this morbid mode of religious
apostasy. God forbid!
Beloved, we are in a pickle. In fact, our very own people are like
termites eating away the once solid foundation built by men and women of
integrity.
Beloved Ones, it is imperative that we repent and return to the Lord,
lest we continue in the deceptions and delusions of our current
leadership and trends today.
End Quote
WHAT SAVES SINFUL MEN ?
The POWER of GOD ?
Or ...
Sensitivity to felt needs?
HELLS OPEN ATTACK UPON GODS GOSPEL MESSAGE AS BEING ' INSENSITIVE".
GODS GOSPEL NEEDS NO SENSITIVITY TEST OR AN EXTREME MAKEOVER
Re-Inventing Jesus Christ
The New Gospel
RE-INVENTING JESUS CHRIST-THE NEW GOSPEL
Watchman...
Could you provide me with the link to this letter? I so would love to send it to some people I know.
Please use my email if you wish.
Ima
all2jesus...
Priceless! And sadly, true.
Ima and Watchman,
I am so grateful for you two and the wealth of PD knowledge you have shared!
Ima that Willowcreek Link you sent me was an eye opener! When I did the 20 mile search I was stunned at the churches that are affiliated. Even the very conservative Germantown Presbyterian! What exactly does it mean when a church affiliates with Willowcreek and/or Saddleback? I know they pay a fee to affiliate and get discounts on materials- is there any other obligations and does Willocreek/Saddleback promote them as well?
Ima: Could you please send me that Willowcreek list link as well?
Thanks so much!
:)
Amy, it does seem like it's taking over everything, doesn't it?
Resisters: Never doubt your efforts folks.
1 Timothy 4:1-2;6
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
Matthew 24: 4-5;11;23-27
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Acts 20: 27-31
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
2 Corinthians 6:14-15
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
Ephesians 5:11-12
11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Colossians 2:8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Romans 16: 17-18
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
2 Peter 2:1-3
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
1 Timothy 6: 3-5
3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1 Thessalonians 5:21
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1 John 4:1
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Jude 1:3-4
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 2:4-5
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Galatians 1:6-10
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Luke 9:23
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Acts 15:1
The Council at Jerusalem
1 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
-Some from Judea taught the Gentile converts at Antioch, that they could not be saved, unless they observed the whole ceremonial law as given by Moses; and thus they sought to destroy Christian liberty. There is a strange proneness in us to think that all do wrong who do not just as we do. Their doctrine was very discouraging. Wise and good men desire to avoid contests and disputes as far as they can; yet when false teachers oppose the main truths of the gospel, or bring in hurtful
doctrines, we must not decline to oppose them. (Acts 15:7-21)
-Matthew Henry
concernend...
The link to the church finder at willow creek association is right here.
And you are right! It most definitely IS taking over everything. It is like a slow fog moving in ever so gently in the early morning.
Thing you need to remember about this list is that a church may ask to keep their name off the list and willow creek obliges them.
Saddleback does not have a list. They put a list on the internet briefly during the Christmas holidays to compliment the Christmas special Fox so graciously allowed Warren. Quite the slam being Rupert Murdoch owns Fox and Zondervan! Quite an infomercial wouldn't you say? Anyway, they listed the PD churches briefly during that period so you could find one to attend in your area. But...zap! that didn't last long. I once wrote Saddleback/PD asking for a list of churches in my area and they refused to give it out. Don't know why really...they are fairly easy to spot.
Amy said, " Even the very conservative Germantown Presbyterian! What exactly does it mean when a church affiliates with Willowcreek and/or Saddleback? I know they pay a fee to affiliate and get discounts on materials- is there any other obligations and does Willocreek/Saddleback promote them as well?"
Reply:
Amy, I am very curious...is this church, the Germantown Presbyterian, the church that Donna Gaines' sister is a member of. I remember reading that somebody said she is a member of another church...seems it was a Presbyterian church? I am referring to the comments made where she voted and shouldn't have.
To the next topic, I am sure I don't know the ins and outs of everything pertaining to these associations. However, in reading, researching it I have leanred a good bit. They network as a team...a group. They are a network of churches. They simply follow Rick Warren's lead and the same goes for Hybels. They do the 40 Days of Purpose together as a unit, however I do think thay Warren has encouraged the churches to do it on their own as of late. In an email he issued right before his Christman special, he told the pastors they will be doing the 40 Days of Vision later this year, September I think he said. Can't wait for that one. They are really promoting the vision, focus thing this year. I had one pastor tell me yesterday that he'd like for me to come and participate in their church's 40 Days of Passion! Wow...I hadn't heard of that one. That one sort of freaks me out! He'll be happy to tell you all about all 400,00 of his churches.This thing is like a chain...a marketing strategy. He holds seminars here, there and yonder now. You talk about taking in money...Warren takes in the money. I have wondered why he has focused so much on AIDS when he brings in enough...he could also contribute to the others like cancer, heart, kidney foundation, etc. Why JUST Aids? Maybe they do and they just don't talk about that; however, that would be hard to believe. The man brags like crazy! Not biblical. But back to the topic...they network; the church joins and they are all in it together. Yes, you can buy all kinds of books, sermons(totally against that myself-did that Lord call a man to deliver another man's sermons?-don't think so)kits, mugs, t-shirts, hahaha...you name it he has got it. Talk about marketing. Hybels too. You can keep up by going to purposedriven.com and pastors.com and he has many others. You can sit and read all day, every day on these websites. As Rick says..."Whatever it takes!"
Don't know how much of your question I have answered, but I hope this helps. Anything I missed you'd like to know, just post me back. Maybe Watchman can add to what I have said if he'd like. I have a lot of respect for this guy too.
Ima
Willow Creek's Statement of faith:
Umm...somebody help me out... I can't seem to find anything that goes against scripture in it... seems pretty solid to me...
* The Bible is God's unique revelation to people. It is the inspired, infallible Word of God, and the supreme and final authority on all matters upon which it teaches. No other writings are vested with such divine authority.
* There is only one God, creator of heaven and earth, who exists eternally as three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each fully God yet each personally distinct from the other.
* All people are created in God's image and matter deeply to Him. Central to the message of the Bible is that God loves people, and invites them to live in communion with Himself and in community with each other.
* Apart from Jesus Christ, all people are spiritually lost and, because of sin, deserve the judgment of God. However, God gives salvation and eternal life to anyone who trusts in Jesus Christ and in His sacrifice on his or her behalf. Salvation cannot be earned through personal goodness or human effort. It is a gift that must be received by humble repentance and faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross.
* Jesus Christ, second Person of the Trinity, was born of the Virgin Mary, lived a sinless human life, willingly took upon Himself all of our sins, died and rose again bodily, and is at the right hand of the Father as our advocate and mediator. Some day, He will return to consummate history and to fulfill the eternal plan of God.
* The Holy Spirit, third Person of the Trinity, convicts the world of sin and draws people to Christ. He also indwells all believers. He is available to empower them to lead Christ-like lives, and gives them spiritual gifts with which to serve the church and reach out to a lost and needy world.
* Death seals the eternal destiny of each person. At the final judgment, unbelievers will be separated from God into condemnation. Believers will be received into God's loving presence and rewarded for their faithfulness to Him in this life.
* All believers are members of the body of Christ, the one true church universal. Spiritual unity is to be expressed among Christians by acceptance and love of one another across ethnic, cultural, socio-economic, national, generational, gender, and denominational lines.
* The local church is a congregation of believers who gather for worship, prayer, instruction, encouragement, mutual accountability, and community with each other. Through it, believers invest time, energy, and resources to fulfill the Great Commission — reaching lost people and growing them into fully devoted followers of Christ.
SpringerSpaniel said...
"Willow Creek's Statement of faith:"
Just keep reading spaniel. And...do they read this scripture to the congregation while the scantily clad trapeze artist is swinging over your head or afterwards? Do your research man!
I was commenting on their actual statement of faith... that's all. Seems quite solid to me.
Don't know anything about a trapeeze artist... that might be kind of out of the realm of well... things that outta be happening in church. Unless it's a play of some sort.
Ima-
Thanks for the affiliation info.
I remember reading Donna Gaines sister went to a Presbyterian Church, but I don't remember if it said which one. If it was G'town Presbyterian I think that would have stuck in my mind.
I knew Hope Presbyterian was PD. I was talking last year to a friend who goes to GPC and she said there were several different Presby. denominations- hers being the most conservative, and Hope was in the liberal group. Hope makes no secret it is a Purpose Driven Church and that church is huge and they are always building. I will say, the Pastor does get a little of my respect in that he started that church is a strip mall, and built it up, instead of dividing a established church. It's also know secret it's a PD church.
Just a side note:
A statement of faith is a "cover" for some of the most unholy, pragmatic, mystically induced, rock and roll churches on the planet.
Statements of faith are printed words on moderately expensive stationary or easy links on a webpage.
Todays pragmatic change agent types look at statements of faith as " bait" to fool and draw in and seduce unwary Biblical Christians who still think that such statements of faith are by necessity and design an automatic identifier and a mirror for what Church leadership practices in public within the four walls of these purpose driven dens of deceit.
30 years ago a doctrinal statement may have meant something, and in Holy Spirit led Churches they still may, but, in this era of rampant deception, ..
The very last place to check out a church ..is by placing stock in a statement of faith or doctrinal statement.
Plain and simple...You need to have some "outer trappings " in order to still lure in the casually interested or semi-intelligent sheep.
Didnt' a large Church in Tennessee now going through incredible tumult once have a set of By-laws initially designed to bring security and Godly governing to its' membership ?
Dont look to statements of faith, or doctrinal statement sor by-laws..
Examine the FRUIT.
Buyer beware.
I seem to recall that Donna Gaines sister goes to Independent Pres.
Or maybe 2nd, but I'm thinking Independent.
New BBC Open Forum said...
all2jesus,
Back up and look at yesterday's (4-10), too.
Actually, the boat one was for 4/10. That's what I get for posting after midnight -- dateline confusion.
I'm sure you meant the comic for 4/9, quite apropos as well. Tim better watch out when he takes the petition over to BBC. A van from "Trapdoors-R-Us" was seen parked near the administrative offices last week.
Please read this excerpt from Truth Wars.
Thistruth wars by John MacArthur is a must read.
Do yourself a huge favor and either go the the library or buy this book. Truth Wars by John MacArthur. It is hot off the press and is dealing with exactly what is ongoing in our churches.
offline...
Donna Gaines sister is a member of
Independent Presbyterian on Walnut Grove.
Sister's name is Julie Rosenberger
Donna Gaines spoke at a luncheon on 8/29/06 at Julie's church, Independent Presbyterian on "A heart for hospitality".
Is this the sister that was sitting beside the parents, the Dodds, that voted at Bellevue on 3/25/07..the same day that only Bellevue members were to vote???!!!
Integrity, truth, honesty????!!!!
A confession of faith only has value if 1) it is Biblically based; 2) If those who claim it as theirs actually believe and practice the articles contained in it.
Sheepless,
Apparently, it seems to be ok for Non-Bellevue members to participate in the business of Bellevue.
oc said...
Springer said,
Actually, if you have left Bellevue, you have no business signing the petition. Because it no longer is your business. Your business is your new church home.
12:24 PM, April 10, 2007
OC says. NO longer their business? What a big shot you are, telling them it's not their business. Guess it's not God's business either. This concerns all God's people, as it concerns more than those beyond the local congregation. You need to take a look at the 'big picture' instead of concentrating on your local hydrant.
10:21 PM, April 10, 2007
FWIW, I have no problem with non-members joining in the discussions here. Sometimes people "on the outside" have been able to see the big picture much more clearly than those who are in the middle of things.
However, I do NOT think non-members should be signing the current petition.
SpringerSpaniel said...
I was commenting on their actual statement of faith... that's all. Seems quite solid to me.
I must agree on that point. Their statement of faith is solid on what it speaks to. In large part it echos the historical confessions of the Church.
Are they practicing what their written statement says? A recent quote from a Willow Creek visitor:
"Association with a pagan rock star like 'Bono' is an example that I heard Bill Hybels brag about while visiting Willow Creek (A church created on the basis of Marketing and giving the "unchurched" what they want) on an Easter Sunday morning. The sermon was chock full of a Spirit-less social gospel and void of the power and glory of God's Presence."
Someone has written a thesis on Willow Creek's seeker-sensitive methodology, practice and preaching you might find informative.
If a Willow Creek member noticed that practice and preaching were in conflict with with their statement of faith and insist that scripture alone should have authority, I wonder which would win?
To bring this home a bit, consider that BBC's bylaws (anemic as they are) do require certain minimums, not the least of which is a monthly business meeting. Clearly practice is in conflict with written policy. Those asking that policy be followed (or even nodded toward with a quarterly business meeting) are held in contempt and denied a voice, their microphones turned off.
I also think the non-members of Bellevue have added much and have given us a tremendous amount of insight to help open our eyes and make us more aware of what is happening to our church.
I would like to personally thank each one of you for the personal experiences and Bibical references you have shared with us during these troubling times.
"Beloved Ones, it is imperative that we repent and return to the Lord, lest we continue in the deceptions and delusions of our current leadership and trends today.
End Quote
6:54 AM, April 11, 2007"
And I will add...Lest we continue in the sins we excuse and ignore today.
I have long been a critic of "easy believism" and it appears this is rampant in our church today.
Apparently, the teaching has been solely on imputed righteousness that we get from God's covenant with Abraham. Genesis 15. So we are saved through faith alone and not works.
So.... some apparently feel that since we are saved by faith alone, that any sin we commit or continue to commit is just over looked, or maybe punished some day but not severely and certainly will not result in losing our salvation.
How do we excuse hate, profanity, bitterness and failure to abide in the covenant that God sets out in Deut 29 or Hebrews 8. Do we have to follow his commandments or not?
Does Romans 6 or Hebrews 12 apply to us? How do we lay hold of the covenant with Abraham and ignore his covenant with Israel or his covenant with us?
Run, endure, resisted, striving against sin, chastened, scourged, endure, SERVE? Whew, I am tired….been working too hard I guess…..
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened [us] after their own pleasure; but he for [our] profit, that [we] might be partakers of his holiness.
12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby many be defiled;
12:16 Lest there [be] any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which [voice] they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
2:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
12:21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
2:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more [shall not] we [escape], if we turn away from him that [speaketh] from heaven:
12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
12:27 And this [word], Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire..
Lighthouse Trails has a good overview of New Age practice at Willow Creek, especially their promotion and use of New Age gurus and contemplative prayer, which is just transcendental meditation by another name.
Folks...this is really scary. I am not a member of your church, nor am I a Baptist. I am a member of the church of Christ and I know we have our differences, but what I see on this business meeting tape of the parliamentary adjournment of your Business Meeting, would be transparent to a 4 year old. How do men who profess to be Christians treat members of their congregation so poorly? Never, I mean, never seen such blatant beating down of congregation and taking complete control of church business. Of course, the COC has no "committees", "business leaders", or "chairmen", so all of this is new to me, but it is a VERY SCARY thing to see played out. I knew SG from another congretation and I knew he was a control freak, but this is UNBELIEVABLE. God bless, and if you can't get relief.....we have lots of room and you can even enjoy "old timey" hymns sang acapella, baptism for salvation (the very moment you proclaim the Lord Jesus Christ), and the Lord's Supper EVERY Sunday!!!
Well, I think that if you ain't a tithe paying member of Bellevue, you have absolutely NO right to even form an opinion about the current situation at the church... must less post about it on this, or any other blog.
(Sarcasm, folks!!!)
:)
And the "pagan" Rock Star... Bono... well.. he professes to be a Christian... and U2 did write 40... well, David actually wrote it... but they sang it... so that's gotta count...
Look.. I wasn't defending the Willow creek movement... just pointing out that they have a rock solid foundation. If they build a house of cards on it, though, as it would seem SOME of their churches might have... well, it'll fall.
I didn't realize that Christ Methodist was one of "those" churches and that it's not Christ Methodist anymore... but rather Christ Church. Interesting.
Springer,
I agree with you and NASS, only Bellevue members should sign the petition, as it relates to a business meeting of Bellevue Baptist Church.
More importantly, only Bellevue members should be voting at our business meetings, if you want to call it that!
If indeed the individual's who voted at our business meeting 3/25/07 that were sitting beside the Dodds' (Donna Gaines parents), was Donna's sister, Julie Rosenberger & her daughter, and who are members of Independent Presbyterian..this is a display of total lack of integrity by the Dodds' family. It was clearly stated before voting...if you are not a Bellevue member you may stay but you may NOT vote.
Have you noticed that none of the pro-Gaines have come on this blog to deny that this was Julie Rosenberger.
Can any one tell me how well the Passion play and Easter Services were attended? Crowds as large/smaller, lot smaller?
Maybe if the blog was titled something other than the "New BBC Open Forum", then people would not mind that non members were posting on the blog!
Maybe some of those names you were kickin around as a new church name would fit here.
And if they had asked my opinion, I would have not allowed non members in on the business meeting myself, but that's just my opinion.
Just say'n
preacherdude, it was said Sunday that 1150 people accepted Christ as their Savior from the Passion Play.
All paths lead to God ?
It just keeps gtting darker and darker ....
Willow Creek Leadership summitt 2007 to feature Jimmy Carter.
ONE WORLD RELIGION APPROACHES
WILLOW CREEK SUMMITT
A LINE HAS BEEN CROSSED
CHRISTIANITY AND NEW AGE MARRY
BIBLICAL ANALYSIS OF WILLOW SUMMITT
OK... you finally pushed the right button, watchman... anything that involves Jimmy Carter that is not exclusively related to building houses for poor people is well... quite frankly... the wrong thing, in my mind, anyways.
sacred4u,
Thank you for your words of encouragement, we all need it about right now.
This has been a very painful and tiring journey for all of us. Some of our wonderful and faithful longtime Christian Bellevue members have moved on because it has exhausted them both spiritually and physically and the emotional toil to their families has been too great.
Please pray for each of us and for the Bellevue family that eyes will continue to be opened and that all evil in the pulpit and leadership will be fully exposed and dealt with swiftly.
Dr. Rogers was a man of unquestionable integrity and we all have been "Asleep at the wheel"
The Bigger question that evryone should be asking...
IS NOT..
What is willow creek doing ?
It should be...
How come I can only hear about this on a blog ?
THE PULPITS ARE COMPROMISED
Juss Say'n
SpringerSpaniel said...
Well, I think that if you ain't a tithe paying member of Bellevue, you have absolutely NO right to even form an opinion about the current situation at the church... must less post about it on this, or any other blog.
(Sarcasm, folks!!!)
Yeah Springer
Steve says he's gonna check the records!!!!!!!!! And if you're driving one of those 'spensive SUV's or something like that and you're not paying a certain amount he can tell you ain't tithing!
"it was said Sunday that 1150 people accepted Christ as their Savior from the Passion Play."
Pardon my skepticism. That number is nearly as many decision as we had ALL of last year.
Don't believe everything you hear.
You want to know what the Willow Creek Association is all about?
Go watch this video:
http://coffeetradernews.blogspot.com/
copy url into browser
Watch the whole thing until the end for the final message. It is 8 minutes.
"it was said Sunday that 1150 people accepted Christ as their Savior from the Passion Play."
Wouldn't be nice for a change, as I heard one preacher say, if Christ accepted some folks?
1150 seems high but God knows the real count. I don't believe anything that comes from that "leadership". Maybe Donna Gaines sister filled out some of those cards???
Just wonderin' .....
The videos of the March 25th business meeting are once again being put online -- at a new site.
http://www.savingbellevue.com/March25thMeeting.htm
Watchman said
WILLOW CREEK SUMMITT
A LINE HAS BEEN CROSSED
CHRISTIANITY AND NEW AGE MARRY
BIBLICAL ANALYSIS OF WILLOW SUMMITT
12:44 PM, April 11, 2007
Piglet says:
Okay. So now The Secret has shown up in all of this. I was wondering when that would happen and it didn't take long. Oprah has been touting this New Age "revelation" lately and I haven't been able to stomach watching the whole show, just enough to know what it is about.
Christians are already lining up along side these proponents?!!!! This is moving VERY fast!!
Incredible.
Watchman,
I was reading the link to the Willow Creek Summit and it mentions Ken Blanchard.
Is this the same author who wrote "Who Moved My Cheese" and "Fish"? If so, since when is he a "spiritual leader"? Just wondering...
karen
Who moved my cheese...
I remember reading that several years ago... Our CEO thought it was good reading...
At any rate, that was written by Spencer Johnson, not Ken Blanchard.
Aha... Blanchard co-wrote the one minute manager stuff with Johnson...
He's just a management guru type... how that relates to a religious conference, I dunno...
Also, watchman, why are we surprised this is happening to our churches? Isn't the PDL/seeker sensitive/CGM likened to "secular humanism" from the 70s? And Rick Warren thinks he came up with a new idea? :)
karen
springer,
According to amazon.com, Ken Blanchard wrote a book called "Lead Like Jesus". And I was wrong about Blanchard writing "Fish" - Stephen Lundin wrote that one. They're all in the "rah rah, morale boosting, customer satisfaction" genre, so I got confused.
I need opinions though - while I'm interested in learning about the ill effects of PDL/seeker sensitive/CGM, I don't want to fill my head with too much junk. I want to be informed, but I don't want to pay good money for garbage books. Does anybody have a SHORT list of basic "this is what PDL/CGM is and this is why they are bad"? Thanks!
And, yes, I know the Bible should be at the top of that list, but some latitude in this arena should be given to the author of this post - she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but she workin on it! :)
karen
karen
"He's just a management guru type... how that relates to a religious conference, I dunno... "
Nope. He developed the "Lead Like Jesus" seminars which are now in many churches all over the country. (The seminar content has NOTHING to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ)
He claims to have been saved after One Minute Manager, yet, he endorses all kinds of strange books such as: What would Buddha do at Work, Deepak Chopra and other new agers.
Blanchard is on the board of advisors for the Hoffman Institute...the developers of the Quadrinity Process...which is about as new age as you can get and quite scary.
He has teamed up with all the biggies: Hybels, Buford, Warren, etc.
Biblical Analysis of Ken Blanchard
BLANCHARD BITS
"I remember reading that several years ago... Our CEO thought it was good reading..."
I saved a lot of clients good money by asking them if they really wanted to pay 24.95 for a book about a mouse looking for his cheese.
Most of this stuff gets hyped by the publisher and pays some big names to endorse and before you know it, no CEO wants to be 'behind' so they all jump on the latest training flavor of the week.
I will say the Pike Street Fish market video was very well done.
BLANCHARD ENDORSEMENTS
BLANCHARD ENDORSEMENTS
Karen..
Here you go..
short and to the point.
PURPOSE DRIVEN LIE
watchman,
THANKS!
karen
One page archive of LINKS that are short, to the point exposes' on PDL, CGM , etc.
PAUL PROCTOR LINKS
Pastor Bob Dewaay explains the faulty premises of The Church Growth Movement
FAULTY FOUNDATIONS OF CGM
I have only read alittle bit of today but since this has been a topic before...
I am putting in my 2 cents on NON BBC MEMBERS on this blog as a
25 year member of BBC who tithed when I could not buy Christmas gifts for my kids....
I smell FEAR from those of you trying to make a case for our dear friends who post ....
Get over it because they are more welcome and appreciated than those of you stirring up foolishness.
The leadership of BBC would like to keep those reading this blog ignorant. You are too late.
We are testing everything by the scripture. We are digging deep into God's word. WE KNOW that SG is a false teacher and has a cold heart and is not qualified to be the pastor of BBC.
It is shameful and dangereous that leadership continue to cover for and support this man.
We know that even the one proclaimed to be riding in on the horse of integrity can easily stand before the congregation and lie about there not being any conflicts of interest among the elders we didn't know we had.
I have a much bigger issue with offerings and tithes given in good faith being misappropriated by those same "leaders" that you would like us to trust again....not gonna happen.
You don't control our minds....sorry King Stevie.....
you don't control this blog....
The sole purpose of our non BBC friends on this blog is to encourage,WARN,protect and point us to God's word....not SG's word.
They are welcome friends.....you who protest their presense
are not.
More deceitful and arrogant manipulation of GODS Flock is taught to pastors at this site:
FORMING A CHANGE TEAM AND PIGEON-HOLEING MEMBERSHIP
I've been reading the past couple days and to say the least, I'm really confused by all of the theological speak (Calvinist, Bereans, etc.)
But, I will say this...I have no use for the PDL/CGM Movement. PDL/CGM is like dealing with a used car salesman. They tell you some things, but leave out other things in an effort to sell it. I fear in the next 20 years, as the younger generation (Those in College or late 20s) take hold of high ranking positions in a church such as Pastor, the truth will be watered down to the point where The truth will be blended in with hype and psychology which is happening now.
Lynn: Agreed. We must pray.
lynn,
I agree with the tone of the blog of late. All the doctrinal talk is only causing confusion for those trying to understand the facts of the issues going on at BBC. Please remember that most of those posting doctrinal issues are not members of Bellevue, but rather those who have come on here to espouse their ideas and personal doctrines. Not to say that any are wrong, but they are not pursuing the same goals as those who seek the truth thru the communications provided thru the blog - which is the intent and purpose of the blog.
Please scroll on by those posts that are not pertaining to the issues at BBC and you will be able to glean truth about BBC from the posts.
rod said:
"...but the problems at Bellevue are there not so much due to doctrine as to sin. There is a striving for power and control and just out and out sin and because there is not any accountability with those in high places we have the mess we have now."
The sin of the leadership at Bellevue is the result of the motivations of the hearts and that is the problem. The motivations of the heart dictates the course of actions. If the sins are the problems then all we have to do is alter the behavior and we all kn ow that is not that easy.
Why do the leaders do what they do? If a servant beats his fellow servants and eats and drinks to drunkedness it is because he believes that his lord delays his comming and he is presently unaccountable. While the servants who are being beaten have their problems the servant's problem is his beliefs.
What are Bellevue's leadership beliefs that are the cause of the sins?
John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them
You can clearly see Christ's motivation and the course of action he took.
PS to my previous post
Watchman,
YOUR posts are edifying to me - I do not consider what you post as another doctrine, just the facts about what we can expect from PDL/CGM and the rest of Satan's plan for the church today.
Thanks!
mom4
Your sensitivity in posting assurances to me is appreciated.
I never thought you were referring to me.
As far as my not being from Bellevue, I will say this...
Those who make membership an issue are seeking suppress open dialogue and examination of the single largest movement to have hit Christianity since the reformation.
When it comes to exposing false teaching, I can do no less.
What God showed me in the darkness of conflict, I am revealing in the light.
My prayer is that GODS flock will find comfort and not harsh treatment by realizing that there is no good thing in the apostate seeker sensitive paradigm. Only misery and deception, and eternal heartache for being spiritual adulterers and LOVING the WORLD, as God condemned and plainly commanded against.
Yes, it IS that serious.
Please listen to the first 15-20 seconds of this:
HUH?
Does anyone know when the conversation took place that Dr. Rogers told Steve Gaines this? My understanding was that he had only spoke to him period on one occassion and moderating business meetings was not a topic of discussion.
Why would someone make something like this up?
The last night of the Memphis Passion Play, I have heard that Steve spoke at the end at said that he was so honored to have the Rogers' family in attendance. And spoke of what a blessing and how supportative that had been of him.
From what I understand the Rogers' family was not even there and the area that had been reserved for them was two rows in front of where Steve was sitting, so he would have had to walk past that empty row before he made this statement.
Why would someone make something up like that?
Bob DeWay states:
"The bad theology that underlies Church Growth thinking is man-centered. It does not take serious the depravity of the fallen human race. It apparently assumes that people have the power and inclination to become Christian without a prior supernatural work of grace."
The advent of the modern GCM dates from the 1950's at Fuller Theological Seminary with Donald McGavran and C. Peter Wagner. At this same time the SBC in 1963 was redefining itself theologically from a "God seeking sinner" to a "sinner seeking God" format so as to "disciple the nations". They were implementing the CGM principles and Bellevue is a product of this movement.
Re-Inventing The Church
REINVENTING THE CHURCH
RE-INVENTING THE CHURCH PART TWO
reinventing part two
Tim,
He is a sociopath...I just sent an email out concerning an encounter K.Stevie had with a young man today. He flat out lied/deflected.....and asurred the young man...there would be no more meetings.
Bob DeWay states:
"The bad theology that underlies Church Growth thinking is man-centered. It does not take serious the depravity of the fallen human race. It apparently assumes that people have the power and inclination to become Christian without a prior supernatural work of grace."
He gives a footnote for this statement: "Some would deny this theologically, but nevertheless proceed AS IF IT WERE TRUE.(my emphasis) If they really believed in a need for a prior work of grace, then they would provide the means for that work of grace.
Studying people’s felt needs in order to create a church service that promises to meet those needs is appealing to human wants and desires, not showing them their hopelessly lost condition and need for a work of grace."
This applies to Bellevue's theology.
gmommylv,
If it is something that you would not mind sharing with me please forward. Thanks.
gmommylv,
Steve is not the only member of the administration that has expressed that there will be no more meetings.
Word is, even if 10,000 signed a petition, that it wasn't going to happen. The money is in the bank and those that don't like it can leave. There will be more people to fill the coffers before the cash runs out. So unless, you really feel like being being the victim of disrespect don't waste your time signing it. Of course, there hasn't been a fire caused by the folks rushing over do that anyway. Just sayin'.
oc said...
Springer said,
Actually, if you have left Bellevue, you have no business signing the petition. Because it no longer is your business. Your business is your new church home.
12:24 PM, April 10, 2007
OC says. NO longer their business? What a big shot you are, telling them it's not their business. Guess it's not God's business either. This concerns all God's people, as it concerns more than those beyond the local congregation. You need to take a look at the 'big picture' instead of concentrating on your local hydrant.
10:21 PM, April 10, 2007
11:49 AM, April 11, 2007
REPLY: To clarify, I was not addressing the petition, which I will not sign because I am not a member. I was addressing the 'who's business is it' portion where it is suggested that those no longer attending have no stake in the outcome. I would suggest that there are some who no longer attend BBC but are still members. It is still their 'business'.
Furthermore, this disgrace has bigger implications than just 'members only'. It is every member in the Body of Christ who is affected by this. This too is their 'business'. This was my intention with my post, nothing more, nothing less. I do apologize for the poorly worded post. But the intention remains.
OC.
mom4,
I respectfully disagree with you on your post to scoll by the non bbc people.
I do agree that when the talk gets on dispensationalism and all those other terms .... we are getting off. Lin, Ima, and others are a blessing to us.
mom4- I agree. It seems that the thread is going in several different directions.
Maybe the moderator can create a new thread for all posts concerning the Church Growth Movement and another for Purpose Driven comments as was done for the Calvinist posts.
Tim said...
Please listen to the first 15-20 seconds of this:
HUH?
Notice anything else unusual?
And I quote SG:
"I..er..we've got such wonderful chairman ..."
Slip of the tongue? Hmmm?
I went back and checked my email. I have sent out over 500 emails to people that I have had previous contact with and I know where they stand, plus there have been at least another 100 or so that people have emailed me to send that I sent from the petition site. To date the signature count is at 370.
Many have already figured out that it isn't going to make any difference anyway. Fact of the matter is that the church leadership is not going to recognize the membership for any reason.
Well, let me back up on that you will be recognized, it seems that your name will be added to the list of those that is being kept that will never be accepted to any form of church responsibility. That is right the names of those that dare question the actions of this leadership are being compiled.
It seems to me that no one within the church has a voice, other than the elite few and they are firmly and solidly in control.
Tim,
No more business meetings for the same reason they shut down the communications committee. They cannot afford to talk officially in any forum to address any of these issues. Too many people are learning the right questions to ask. The answers to those questions either have to be the truth or a lie. They can't tell the truth without losing major support. Their lies have a bad habit of backfiring. Too many cameras and recorders. The only thing you are going to get from them is silence. Same as you have been getting but even quieter.
Rope a dope....
tim,
I don't doubt for a minute about the "list"...but in reality, what can they take?...you can't lose something you never had anyway...it's just a reaffirmation of what already existed..like you said..power is in the hands of the elite few..and they ain't sharin' it with nobody..least of all us peons.
To those who think only BBC members should be on this blog: I just want you to know many of us are loving you, praying for you, and want to encourage you during this difficult time.
We are following Galations 6:2: "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ."
tim,
I am totally dumbfounded at the APATHY of the congregation. It is absolutely mind boggling.
"Many have already figured out that it isn't going to make any difference anyway. Fact of the matter is that the church leadership is not going to recognize the membership for any reason. "
Many do not like the talk of GCM or PDL but how these folks view the congregation is exactly what is happening at BBC. You used to be congregationally approved lead by a man you trusted. So, you did not feel led to ask so many questions!
Now, these GCM tactics are being used at BBC to takeover. One strategy is to treat the congregation more like an "audience" instead of as parts of one Body. Hence, no more open meetings and lead by a few men.
There are places for the 'audience' to interact in GCM the church but they are carefully developed and controlled by staff.
I could go into lots of details of how this is done in many mega's but I think you get the point. The bottom line in all of this, sadly, is that most people are comfortable being in the 'audience' and want to follow someone they see as powerful, influential and charismatic. Most people want to be apart of something..to belong.
Going through something like this is akin to a divorce. It is as if your spouse said, If you don't like the way I am-- then leave. Find someone else. And you are expected to leave your home. But you have poured your life into that relationship! But you also cannot live a lie within the home, either. It is horrible and more people than we know have gone through this recently in churches all over this country.
Tim said...
Well, let me back up on that you will be recognized, it seems that your name will be added to the list of those that is being kept that will never be accepted to any form of church responsibility. That is right the names of those that dare question the actions of this leadership are being compiled.
Sheepless says,
The time has come that I feel it is an honor to have my name on the "leadership's list". At least I have taken a position of integrity and I have personal respect for myself and my convictions. I have signed all the petitions with my full name and stand firm in my beliefs.
Maybe Bellevue is only a shell of what it used to be.
Wouldn't it be a miracle if a tornado came thru and lifted the
3 crosses out of the ground and transplanted them at the Seminary.
That would truly be a sign of God Almighty himself.
My tithe has left the building!
Jamie Parker was right about one thing...BBC is unrecognizable...but that has to be due to one of two things...either the character of BBC has changed, or this was it's character all along and it took the loss of Adrian Rogers to reveal it. Either way it's a sad state of affairs.
Paging Charlie Fox...can you e-mail me...please? My e-mail is on the meta.
sheepless,
One day and perhaps sooner than many think the entire truth will be revealed. There will be a day that thousands will claim that they were one of the few that saw through the deceit and signed the petition.
Reminds me of the people that didn't vote for Bill Clinton...twice.
Speaking of moving on, 4545, why don't YOU move along...you don't belong here. You've had your fun, now buzz off.
"I am totally dumbfounded at the APATHY of the congregation. It is absolutely mind boggling."
Actually, it is prophecy being fulfilled, history being repeated. So says Isaiah, Jeremiah.
JMO
Tim said...
The last night of the Memphis Passion Play, I have heard that Steve spoke at the end at said that he was so honored to have the Rogers' family in attendance. And spoke of what a blessing and how supportative that had been of him.
From what I understand the Rogers' family was not even there and the area that had been reserved for them was two rows in front of where Steve was sitting, so he would have had to walk past that empty row before he made this statement.
Why would someone make something up like that?
7:14 PM, April 11, 2007
Sheepless says,
Because he is trying to ride on the coattail of Dr Rogers and the Rogers family. He is trying to create some credibility by using their name. He thinks if he positions himself as a friend of theirs or appears to be close to them, he will endear himself to many of the congregation..and it is working, especially with the senior congregation.
I wish the next time Dr. Adrian Rogers or the Rogers family name rolls out of his mouth that the Lord would strike him tongue tied. It gives me cold chills every time Dr Rogers name comes from his mouth..Steve Gaines is not worthy of any kinship to Dr. Rogers.
Concerned said, To those who think only BBC members should be on this blog: I just want you to know many of us are loving you, praying for you, and want to encourage you during this difficult time.
We are following Galations 6:2: "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ."
OC says: So simply, so truthfully, so rightfully said. Thanks, Concerned.
Lindon,
You have Charlie Fox mail.
The only thing you glorify 4545 is your massa's
sheepless,
Further investigation reveals that the church was told in advance to give the tickets to someone else that they would not be able to attend.
I suppose that the theme of the day is that you should only lie when it is necessary or beneficial. I've got to call my kids down and replace some bad info that I've given them on that one. Boy will they be relieved to know that lieing is now ok. Steve Gaines does it so why not everyone else.
OC said
I was addressing the 'who's business is it' portion where it is suggested that those no longer attending have no stake in the outcome. I would suggest that there are some who no longer attend BBC but are still members. It is still their 'business'.
Piglet says:
You have just described our family.
We do not have to be INSIDE the fire to fight it. :)
4545,
There is nothing more disturbing than what is going on inside the walls of our church and the actions of our so called leaders, that served under the guidance and leadership of Dr Adrian Rogers, ignoring the truth of scripture and mocking our Holy God.
Concernedsbcer said
To those who think only BBC members should be on this blog: I just want you to know many of us are loving you, praying for you, and want to encourage you during this difficult time.
We are following Galations 6:2: "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ."
Piglet says:
You know I don't mind!!!
Thanks!! :)
4545,
For months now you've mostly been an annoyance, now you're a hair in the mashed potatoes...go play in the street.
45,
Are you prepared to call me a liar when I tell you that Mrs. R. worshipped at GBC on Sunday?
What will you say when she starts worshipping there EVERY sunday?
sheepless,
The amazing thing is how those that many considered to be Godly men, now glory in the victory of their sins. They actually high-five one another for successfully deceiving people. It really makes you wonder what kind of spirit they are being led by.
I would like to know just WHICH member of the Rogers family does he thinks is supporting him?
I am not aware of ANY member of that family that is supporting him.
sleepless said: Wouldn't it be a miracle if a tornado came thru and lifted the
3 crosses out of the ground and transplanted them at the Seminary.
That would truly be a sign of God Almighty himself.
REPLY: your posts in NO way represent Christ and this one is trully disturbing.
why don't you and all the others MOVE ON!!
Piglet says:
Cool your jets, 4545. Aren't people leaving fast enough for you? If you want them to leave faster, widen the doors.
And as for the tornado, I thought it was truly hilarious! :D
Noting that 45 is ignoring my question about Mrs. Rogers worshipping at GBC on Sunday,.
"This blog is full of rumors and lies every day. "
Actually, it has been full of scripture! Praise God!
Charlie...you have more mail...sorry!
gmommy,
I appreciate your position and I believe Lin and Ima both have added to the depth of the conversation here - I have never had anything but praise for their postings - their heart is in the right place here. All I am saying is that there are those who post here in an attempt to discredit our biblical beliefs in doctrine and understanding and I am a firm believer that it is not helping our cause to the casual lurker. If they are lurking to obtain information or to see what we are "made of", they are not always finding it. If they have a genuine interest in the different doctrines of the faith, they may well find a very deep discussion here. My point is that it can be off topic to the degree that it is not helpful to someone who is not interested in changing their biblical conviction/beliefs and is not interested in discrediting Dr Rogers or the MABTS - which some of the posters have previously tried to do. I did have a comment by one "speculator" that wanted to know what all the "calvinism" talk was about and were we trying to lead BBC down that path? He was highly offended and said he would stay away from the group if that is where we are headed.
However, all in all, it is a good time of conversation and debate, but if you want facts, read the first post on this thread by piglet. She and 25+ along with others, Tim, docbellevue and several others have hit the nail on the head repeatedly and that is where we need to focus. JMHO.
hmmm, and yet, she supports Dr. Gaines?
I don't think so.
She is much too smart for that.
Oops...did i step on your toes?
4545 said
Sleepless: Same old stuff. You try to turn the focus on others and not yourself. Trust me, your Sins are NO different. You post was sick.
Piglet says:
This blog isn't about sheepless.
Sheepless wasn't caught in lies to the congregation.
She didn't throw out some of our best ministers.
She didn't keep a pedophile a secret.
She didn't claim to be best buds with Dr. Rogers when she wasn't.
She didn't send our tithe money to the apostate church.
She didn't abruptly end a business meeting because the truth might leak out.
She didn't keep the financials a secret against the law.
She didn't lie about where she would be every Wed.night..catching my breath....:p
Tim wrote: "The last night of the Memphis Passion Play, I have heard that Steve spoke at the end at said that he was so honored to have the Rogers' family in attendance. And spoke of what a blessing and how supportative that had been of him.
From what I understand the Rogers' family was not even there and the area that had been reserved for them was two rows in front of where Steve was sitting, so he would have had to walk past that empty row before he made this statement."
Gaines is betting on the premise that Mrs. Rogers will say nothing. He is lower than a snakes belly to use a widow like that. That infuriates me.
He also knows that he has the support of the SBC leadership (How much money does BBC send them?)
4545
You will probably have BBC to yourselves soon. Enjoy it! I predict you will miss us when we are all gone down the road. It will be like waving goodbye to your family when they leave town but we will not be coming back. You will feel good at first( kind of relieved at first). Then the loneliness will set in. Then you will remember how much more fulfilled you felt when your family was there. Don't worry about us! We will be ok.
More recently he upgraded his original Union City trash talk from 2-3 disgruntled members to around 100. Fact is he already knows that it is many more than that, but at least he is getting closer to the truth with each passing day.
Probably a lot closer than he realizes.
I would be FURIOUS if SG stood up there and stated that I was supportive of him when i am not.
I think he did it just to make some people mad, becuase maybe he KNOWs that they are NOT supporting him...
Maybe it was punishment for not supporting him?
lindon,
You need to rephrase that for the true southerners here. That would be lower than a snakes belly in a wagon rut.
c4545 said,
REPLY: wow, what hate! Also, you DO NOT know what you are talking about. You have no facts and just continue to rumors and lies. You in NO way glorify Christ.
Sheepless says,
WOW!! Not hate at all..but righteous anger.
You and everyone else know what we are talking about..Steve Gaines has lied, twisted scripture, run off spirit filled men of God and on and on and on.
No rumors, no lies, truth is going to prevail, batten down the hatches and get ready! If you really don't know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you soon will, along with the rest of the world.
Watched Love Worth Finding this evening (on DVR).
BBC was full to the rafters. The coir was overflowing.
The word was preached by a spirit filled servant of the Lord.
Those were the days.
God bless the Rogers family and may Steve Gaines be struck mute should he use their name again to further his agenda!!
"I think he did it just to make some people mad, becuase maybe he KNOWs that they are NOT supporting him..."
I doubt it. He did it for personal gain. To win over some fence sitters. I mean.... how bad can he really be if the Rogers family is supporting him? He knows if people believe that, they will follow him.
He needs their credibility. The guy has nerve, I will give him that.
Sounds to me like SOMEONE here tonight is hooked up to the Steve Gaines IV
"You need to rephrase that for the true southerners here. That would be lower than a snakes belly in a wagon rut."
I am conflicted...my state was half yankee and half rebel in the war of Northern Agression and Southern rebellion.
"He also knows that he has the support of the SBC leadership (How much money does BBC send them?)"
I have heard that many up and coming in th SBC are remaining silent during this tragedy only to protect their positions within the convention. This would include those from WJX and GARDENDALE as well as other churches. Many of them are protecting themselves while sin runs amuck at BBC and whether they ever "make it" in the leadership ranks of the SBC or not, they WILL be held accountable for putting their lust for power and position over God's Word.
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