This means a legitimate business meeting, not the "dog and pony show" we were subjected to on March 25th. It means:
1. Adequate childcare for those who need it for the duration of the meeting.
2. Voting on all motions by written ballot by verified members only.
3. An independent third party to moderate.
4. An independent third party to count and certify the votes.
5. No time limit on the meeting. If it runs too long, the meeting can always be recessed and continued later.
Please sign, then forward the above link to your friends so they can sign, too!
Now please continue...
Our New Church Logo?
726 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 726 Newer› Newest»Friends, there is quite a bit of false teaching and twisting of scripture on this blog today. I am not saying it is intentional. Please, be Bereans and check everything. Do not let emotional arguements sway you. Only the truth of scripture.
Jesus was praying in 1 John for the unity of believers. Yes. But where should that unity come from? There is ONLY one place: The Word.
If we use our emotions or our thinking or even our intentions for unity we run the risk of allowing the Angel of Light to be in control. The Word divides, it offends. The Word does not take 'intentions' or 'feelings' into account with truth. Scripture teaches that the heart is deceitful.
Sometimes we forget that Jesus taught this too:
Matthew 10
35For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. 37Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
And remember: Matthew 10:28
A good reminder, Lin.
Has anyone been reading the petition comments? Most of them are remarkable at the insight presented!
We have been portrayed as troublemakers who "just don't like the music". I even had someone tell me that my going to GBC was my attempt to make it a "little bellevue". How foolish a remark, and it was from someone on staff at BBC! That is what they are told and since they don't read anything and don't search out the truth for themselves, I guess it is no wonder they believe such lies.
Perhaps this week we can each reach one person that has made such foolish statements as the one above and lovingly explain where we stand, show them the scriptural errors in the leadership and in Steve Gaines' teachings/sermons and beliefs. If that can happen, it won't be long before we reach 3,000!
Don't forget to sign each member in your family, even the children if they are baptized members! THEY COUNT TOO!
Fellow Bloggers,
I did get silly yesterday...I want to apologize for that and hope you can forgive me. It is out of character for me. I have asked NASS to delete my posts.
Want to say I hope you all have a nice "Resurrection Sunday" tomorrow. My prayers are with you all. God bless...
Ima
Ima
Oh, I hope we don't need forgiveness for being silly!
I was not offended at all! :)
ima,
A few minutes of silliness, as long as it doesn't degrade or disrespect, is sometimes needed as a means to take a break to catch ones breath and regain the strength to keep going. We have both "Been There, Done That".
socwork asks the group "If the church body is a family (and we are), why would this not be true for the church as well? I think it is."
I think the point financeguy was making was that we have those who not of 'the family' making waves. Also, if I was going to get some outside help it should come from those who are involved in a succesful 'family' environment. As one recovering from alcholism I don't accept advice from a present drunk nor one from someone who hasn't experience a similar situation. A lot of folks have an opinion but those who have been through the process have helped me the most. Like financeguy, I think we have some on the blog who just like to stir the pot. Just like with an alcoholic the process for recovery will be from within.
Charlie and Ima: As have I.
Charlie Fox said, "We have both "Been There, Done That".
We surely have Charlie. We won't soon be forgetting about it either will be Charlie.
concernedSBCer said...
"Charlie and Ima: As have I."
Yes, CSBCer...too. A year ago this week my husband and the other two deacons were voted out. It was a nightmare. Nothing has changed.
CSBCer...do you attend a church now anywhere? I am thinking you don't attend Bellevue, right?
imaresistor said...
Charlie Fox said, "We have both "Been There, Done That".
We surely have Charlie. We won't soon be forgetting about it either will be Charlie.
REPLY:
Not in our lifetimes here on earth. There are probably more bloggers here, that have "been through the situation and gone through the process", than "UPSIDE DOWN" realizes.
Guys,
It's correct whomever said that I'm not referring to the "current silliness", but my overall impression of the tone and conversations over the life of this piece of internet real estate.
Allow me to further clarify. I believe that much of what has happened and is happening on this blog is a combination of gossip, venting/letting off steam, combined with some helpful discussion/wisdom and insights. The problem is that many people don't have the ability to discern and filter through the "noise", and it's especially difficult in the online environment. I wonder how much of the "talking", "phone calls" "meetings" "Blogging" and "sleepless nights" have been accompanied by true, intercessory prayer. Are you truly concerned about Bellevue and her spiritual condition or are you jumping on the bandwagon to grind some secret, personal ax/hurt/grudge?
Piglet,
I think your question "what am I doing?" is a little misplaced. You don't know what is going on in different people's lives, nor what they may or may not be doing, nor what God may or may not be leading different people to do. And your calls for the "men of Bellevue to stand up", with the insinuation that they are sissy wimps or worse, motivated by their own self interest smacks of a judgmental spirit that appears to be more motivated by frustration and hastiness than anything else. There is a time for action, and there is a time for prayer. I think that events have shown that there were those of us (in the Body of Believers sense of the word) who felt the time for action preceded the time for prayer. Since so far any action taken has not had it's desired effect, I think it's safe to say that Human efforts have failed. I am not in a position to say whether any action that has been taken in opposition to the leadership is "wrong" in a logical, or legal sense. (I think that some words that have been exchanged among certain individuals have not been very loving and Christian.) However, something that is perfectly right in the World's eyes, or can even be supported in Scripture, could be wrong because it isn't God's Plan or timing. If God has a desire to bring about a certain result at Bellevue, He will do it in a way that brings glory to him, not where Men can point and say "look what we did?"
And before you give me the "yes but" where "God uses people to accomplish His will," it's mighty bold to be claiming to be speaking/working for God when you cannot honestly say that your actions where preceded by fervent intercessory prayer, and He has clearly shown you what to do.
Consider this my call to spend the time and energy playing the "who shot Jim" game and discussing what so-and-so said or may have said, and attempting to assign motives and whatnot to everyone, and just pray for them. Pray for Bellevue. Pray for the Pastor. Pray for the Ministerial Staff. Pray for each other. Pray for yourself.
Some of you out there know each other. Why don't you "group up" once a month or whatever and have a time of fellowship and prayer? Not a gripe/gossip time, but a prayer time. Who knows? This could lead to revival at Bellevue like we've never seen.
(Parenthetically, I think it would be great if something like that "broke out" amongst the fellowship that wasn't a church organized "program". It would be such the sign of spiritual maturity, but I digress..)
I do know that we need to avoid unnecessary divisiveness. I'm not talking about not taking a stand when proper and necessary in a notion of false unity. I'm referring to statements such as those claiming that certain parties are worthy of death, and those who support them are "spiritually blind" is not persuasive and just causes people to react and grow harder in their opposition, creating unnecessary bitterness and divides.
We sit here and judge those who appear to "believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, yet refuse to obey it", and we ourselves are guilty of the same.
Read Matthew 7:5 for more detail.
-FG "Lord, here am I, send Aaron":)
Finance Guy,
It was division that birthed this blogspot, what brought it into existence to begin with. The overall 'tone' that I hear from this blogspot is a cry from those who HAVE discerned the problem at Bellevue. I don't see a call for people to take a stand as an insinuation that they are wimps. I see it as a plea for help.
FG
What you are discussing is Tim's post which I reposted, but agree with so I'll take the heat for it gladly.
These events started over a year ago. If deacons and godly men in this church had stood up earlier it would have never gotten to this point.
And there has been much prayer over this issue. But, suffice it to say, if I see a child getting beaten and verbally abused, I need not pray before I act. We at Bellevue should have enough God given sense and Bible teaching under our belts to know you don't stand for the kind of foolishness we have seen since Gaines arrived.
Our family has been obedient to the Lord regarding this issue. The apparent "success" or lack of it regarding our efforts does not even factor in.
Maybe that's the problem, too many count the cost or try to predict the outcome instead of doing what we already know God wants us to do.
I still say, if good men had stood up in the beginning, we would not bbe in this sorry predicament. If they had not stood idly by while Mark Sharpe was treated so unfairly and nervously gnawed their fingernails this could have been nipped in the bud. Now it has snowballed and numerous insults to this church and our Lord have been added.
These men who were convicted to stand and did not - they know who they are and will have to answer to God for it.
FAITH SAID:
My name is Hope, and I'm a friend of Mr. Solomon. I feel you have made a serious error in your analysis and I'd like to correct it.
You are applying the image of the tower of Babel "to Bellevue", and that's not right. It's a frightening image, to be sure, and will certainly gain you support.UNQUOTE
Faith
The one nice thing about a blog ..is that a lie cannot stick here becase all is open and transparent.
I never once even used the name of your church, much less equated it with Babel. I will be awaiting your apology for this emotional overstatement, if not outright falsehood.
Piglet...
Long after the crying and anger and tears are spilt, ...your post makes all of the watchman duties worth it to this weary soldier of
the LORD Jesus Christ.
I always very much look forward to every post you place in this blog.The directness of the TRUTH is staggering and worth waiting for. Piglet, You have exceptional discernment and are a valiant defender of THE FAITH.
Praise The Lord.
FG
I need to add that since neither Tim's post nor my remarks suggested anyone worthy of death, I did not respond to that point.
I seem to recall a scripture alluding to that but since the scripture was quoted in context, I saw no need to respond because it speaks for itself. I say this without referring back to the post, but going on my recollection of it.
For convenience sake faith..here is my entire earlier blog about Babel
Where did you see me equating Babel with a particular Church as you have charged?
You cant...
cuz it aint there.
Juss sayin
oops..here it is faith
solomon said :
(as reported by faith ):
It’s time for a change. When our ancestors started building the tower of Babel God knew they would succeed. The LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. What an incredible statement! I choose to take that as literally as I can. NOTHING is impossible if we work together. Victory can only come through unity.
Ok....
Now I beleive I have seen seen everything,,,
Do you all realize what this post is plainly suggesting ? It suggests that faith sees solomon as being a prescious , prescious man whose gaze is firmly fixed on heavenly things and has his eyes and heart set upon pleasing GOD alone. Yet...
Faith clearly misses the centrality of the issue of THE TOWER OF BABEL.
THE TOWER OF BABEL was the result of self deification, and unity consciousness...an attempt to reach godhood without repentance, humility, and dying to self and crying out to GOD ALONE for HIS WAY AND WAYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!
JEHOVAH God vehemently hated the unity that waS DISPLAYED AT BABEL !!!!!
GOD was condemning their 'ONENESS" AND THEIR PURPOSE FILLED SINGLE MINDED UNITY THAT EXCLUDED HIM AND HIS TRUTH !!!!!
YES !! It was the single largest example of a new world order in the historical Biblical record !!!
And...
guess what ????
The Babel-ers sre back again !!
Preaching that we need UNITY , UNITY, UNITY, UNITY ...all without TRUTH !!!!!!!!!!
Now...let me say this in as straightforward a manner as I can by Gods will.
Solomon, you are thoroughly deceived in your example you cited.
You are not only deceived, you have it 180 degrees backward.
If ever, there was a Bible story and example that showed the DANGERS of elevating ONENESS AND FALSE UNITY ...it is the story of THE TOWER OF BABEL.
For Rick Warren or solomon to suggest that BABEL is an excellent model of how Christians should conduct themselves in 2007 is about the single most startling thing I have read on this blog.
Now, having said that, I want to say...
solomon, I pray you will have the unity scales removed and God wll grant you spiritual eye salve to see the unity you champion by citing BABEL is exactly opposite of GODS WILL AND DESIRE.
God looked down on their oneness and purpose and saw their energy and unity and single mindedness and did what ?
HE CONDEMNED IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND SCATTERED THEM AND CONFUSED THEIR LANGUAGE AND DISPERSED THEM OVER THE FACE OF THE EARTH !!!!!
Yet
Rick Warren and solomon cite this example as " instructive " to preach victory through UNITY ????
oh LORD GOD, I pray
If it be possible ...
remove the scales from these mens eyes in this most serious matter.
"Pray for Bellevue. Pray for the Pastor. Pray for the Ministerial Staff. Pray for each other. Pray for yourself. "
Pray for everyone to get into the Word.
With all of this talk regarding UNITY...
A brief respite by looking back in time at our Christian heroes of THE FAITH and their solid Biblical positions on UNITY follow.
TRUTH TRUMPS UNITY
TRUTH OVER UNITY is undeniable!!!!
TRUTH OVER UNITY is undeniable!!!!
Amen, charlie fox!
Here is yet another exceptionally timed analysis by Pastor Bob Dewaay of Twin City Fellowship in Minnesota on FALSE UNITY VERSUS TRUE UNITY
TRUE VERSUS FALSE UNITY
The answers are all in the WORD. It explains the current problems, challenges and actions of people on both sides of the "fence".
A lot of the answers can be found in Isaiah 30.
Of particular interest is the wounds from His "blows" and what He will do with them. We have had genterations raised on the deception that God is all about love and mercy. Reading the OT will show you a different part of His character. He demands obedience and worship. That is what we are created for.
Idol worship is often refered to as images of "silver and gold" or "wood and stone"....What are some of the construction materials of BBC?
There is a whole bunch of truth
HERE
But really it is all over the Bible. Turn from your idols. The Horses (flesh) of Egypt (men) cannot save us. The building of BBC can't either. And the money you haul through the front doors won't profit you either. Isaiah 30:6
How timely is this excerpt from the above captioned piece?
Quote:
Those who have replaced the unity of the Spirit and the unity of the faith with unity of the pastor’s personal vision are the truly divisive ones. They are guilty of the very charge they level against dissenters within the flock. Such leaders are causing dissensions and hindrances because they have willingly laid aside the teaching of Christ and His apostles in order to promote the wisdom of man.
A “factious” person in the Bible (Titus 3:10) was one who departed from sound doctrine or Biblical practice, not one who failed to help religious leaders fulfill their vision for the future success and glory of a religious corporation. For example, Luther was considered factious by the Roman Catholic Church. Whether he was or not has to be determined by examining his doctrine and practice with the Bible and doing the same for the Roman Church. One is not automatically a heretic or divisive because he or she has a disagreement with a man-made religious corporation. This is especially true if what is causing the division is the gospel itself.UNQUOTE
"Pray for everyone to get into the Word."
AMEN!
Romans 16:17I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 18For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites,[e] and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. 19For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil. 20The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Paul is refering to false prophets, preachers..teachers. Not the sheep in the pew.
watchman,
That was an excellent quote (4PM). It really needs to be posted over and over because I've noticed the "enemy" over the ages who's desire is "Power and Control", uses this twisted argument for Unity to stop all opposition to his schemes.
Another thing I've noticed he uses is the twisting of "love". We are to love one another and if you don't go along with his agenda, you are not loving, as well and causing disunity. Therefore, love has too often become another four letter word or it's meaning has been perverted.
John tells us we are to love IN TRUTH. If there is no truth there is no love. And, the one without truth or the "satanic sandwich" (truth, the lie, then truth), is the one with out love and destroyer of the unity.
Also, the argument of comparing the leadership in modern day churches to "Moses" is another twisting of truth. Jesus tells us that those who want leadership positions are to be the servant of all, and He gave us the example of washing His disciples feet. A leader is to be a servant and humble. Not a CEO or one who lords it over the flock. He is one who goes after the sheep that has gone astray, (note, the sheep, not the goat), and does not smack the sheep with a battering ram. Nor, does he refer to sheep that do not agree with him or her, as "taking out garbage!).
concernedSBCer said...
"Charlie and Ima: As have I."
And me too! And just like Ima, our situation all was happening last year at this time. That's what drew me to the blog in the first place. As far as I know, GBC didn't really hace any forums set up like this, and it would have been real comforting to have a little validation regarding concerns, instead of hearing "why are so against the staff and what they've been through" or "Save GBC has just brainwashed you"
And after the vote came out I was shocked to see there were a lot more people that felt like I did, and maybe there wasn't something wrong with my heart.
Thanks Rod..
Yes, the brazen tolerance of falsehood, and intolerance for Truth ...should have caused a panic "spirit of error " alarm within the Visible Church long ago
Better late than never..
rod..
In light of your last comments..
you would likely appreciate this :
IS IT RIGHT TO JUDGE, TO EXPOSE ERROR, AND TO NAME NAMES?
Is it right to judge, expose error, and name names
FYI,
The 10 Commandments has just started on ABC 24.
BTW, my other name on here was Koragg. Not sure why, but it wouldn't work lol.
Thanks watchman, another excellent article. I totally agree with it.
It seems to me that the Lord is shifting gears and things are moving faster.
It is so important for us all to be intimately knowledgable of the Truth of God's Word in order to stand up against the wiles of the devil.
I head today on 640 that a high school on the east coast had a drill to prepare themselves against the possibibility of a terrorist attack. Did anyone hear that?
They had athe TERRORISTS being FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS! The scenario was one of the Christian gunman's daughter was kicked out of school for not being able to pray before a class. So, the fundamental Christians came into the school with gun ready to shoot every one.
The agression against Christianity is getting so strong in America that it is the very same spirit with what was going on in Germany just before World War II. Anyone one who knows their history knows this is true. The Jews at that time could not and would not believe that it would lead to what it did because "afterall, this is Germany! We are civilized in Germany and they would not allow this to go on or to get worse". This was just before the camps.
The question in 2 Chron 19:2 Shouldest thou help the ungodly and lovem them that hate the Lord? This question is so appropriate in light of giving the 25k givt to a so called chruch that teaches false doctrine and promotes rebellion against God as well as murdering unborn children and promoting a gay agenda and all done by a woman pastor! As well as the "seeker friendly" church. Through out the saints to make room for the unsaved world! They are more umportant than the godly! Just walk roughshod over the godly and "take them out like trash" to make room for the world.
Good evening folks,
Let's move right on into the facts of the matter. Here it is.
Congratulations are in order to the current administration at Bellevue and not only the administration but also to those staunch supporters. It seems that you have successfully convinced a large portion of the congregation to believe a lie. There have been many lies to be quite frank about it. (The dream that was not, the itty-bitty fence, the apostate donation, the harboring of a sexual deviant, the business meeting that was not… etc… etc… the list goes on and on.)
I certainly hope that all those that know that they have deviously and devilishly covered the truth are proud of themselves. I am beyond certain that the father of lies is pleased. There have been quite a number of trusted people in leadership that have the false hope that if they can just get past this time, then they will get away with it. I must warn you to not be deceived, be very sure your sin will find you out. One day these people will have to give an account for these actions and the ends justifies the means will not be acceptable, ignoring and excusing sin claiming that people are getting saved will not be acceptable. The only thing then that will be acceptable is the truth. You will stand then and give an account of either standing for truth or lying against the truth.
Noah prayed and built the ark, Jacob prayed and wrestled with God, David prayed and defeated Goliath, Esther prayed and saved the nation of Israel, Moses prayed and led the people out of Egypt. Who prayed and did nothing? It is my firm belief that there are plenty of prayer warriors. It is the part that comes after prayer that is lacking. It is not a mystery what God would have of you.
Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Love your 7:14 post Tim!! Well said.
My goodness!!
The attitude and message of the blog has sure changed since my little peak before going out to work today.
Throwing in my 2 cents here....
Ima, please be silly anytime you feel led!!!
Cakes,
Perfect timing..that's where I would have jumped in!
Of course certain "sisters "couldn'
stay around....too much truth coming at them!!!
I had the opportunity the other night to meet a sweet lady working late at my office. She wanted to let me know she just loved Bro. Steve. I did not get emotional.I printed off the time line for her from the IDC website,handed it to her and said she may want to look over this. I pointed out one thing...she had never heard about it. I explained how this and other things were against scripture. She had ONLY heard what came from the pulpit. I felt good when our conversation concluded...about an hour later.
I was very clear that this whole thing begins and ends with the disobedience by SG and the leadership to obey scripture.
Scripture is not a slippery slope as SG has said.
I believe she walked away glad to be enlightened and THINKING.
We have become more focused on the blog about what the core problem is at BBC. I believe the Lord is pointing us all to His word...
(so probably the little gremlins will appear soon!)
gmommylv,
What an excellent way to share information about the issues at BBC, in a non-confrontational way.
We could all print a few of these off and keep them with us in the event we have an oppoortunity like you did the other night.
Thanks.
gmommylv,
Bless you, Sister. There are many, like you, that are standing for the truth and their convictions. Sadly, there are many others that know the truth, but are afraid to stand. In my "Keep It Simple Stupid" mind, if you know The Word and LOVE JESUS, then it's a NO BRAINER. If people turn their backs on you or kick you out, what have you REALLY LOST. NOTHING!! In the long run, what have you GAINED!!! EVERYTHING!!!
gmommy said: "We have become more focused on the blog about what the core problem is at BBC. I believe the Lord is pointing us all to His word..." 1 Corinthians 2:5 "That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."
Referring back to something said earlier, I don't know if the situation at BBC is God's Will. I believe God would have us all to obey His Word. While God is not surprised at disobedience, I believe He is grieved by it. There is leadership that has grieved their Heavenly Father by being disobedient to His Word. However, we do have Romans 8:28 that is a comfort to us all. While I do not believe it is God's Will that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."), I do know that God is in control. (1 John 5:20: "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.")
With regard to a previous post concerning divisiveness, John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." Mankind, as a whole, does not want to follow God's Word and that leads to the lack of unity with those who do obey God's Word and hold others to the same accountability.
JMHO
imaresistor said...
Finance Guy,
It was division that birthed this blogspot, what brought it into existence to begin with. The overall 'tone' that I hear from this blogspot is a cry from those who HAVE discerned the problem at Bellevue. I don't see a call for people to take a stand as an insinuation that they are wimps. I see it as a plea for help.
Agreed to some degree, but 1)The overall tone is tainted by those who have a personal agenda hidden behind a facade of "concernedness". Also those who are just plain acting with spiritual immaturity, and 2) You don't need a blog to ask God for help, which is what should be going on.
Interestingly enough, if you get the podcast for Love Worth Finding, listen to the one from February 20, 2007, titled "Surviving Apostasy".
I think we are helping each other prepare to celebrate Easter!
Except for the "business meeting" at BBC ...which was not church.....I am going to church tomorrow for the first time since the report was read by DC.
I really like the idea of the lawn chairs and hymn sing together but it's just too cold for me!
A sweet brother said something a week or so ago that has given me such clarity. He wasn't trying to and probably doesn't even remember. He is one of our blog friends and has suffered personal hardship for his stand for truth.
He said, we aren't interested in "positions of leadership" at BBC as some have said about us.
" we are just peons" who want to be obedient to God's word.
I love being a peon for the Lord!!!!
I hear the pitter patter of something coming......
gmommylv said...
I love being a peon for the Lord!!!!
REPLY:
Now that, Dear Lady, is a POWERFUL statement!!!!!!
It looks like savingbellevue.com has the video links to the "first annual business meeting" at Bellevue under the leadership of Rev. Steve Gaines 19 months into his job.
Just got an email from a faithful friend about the timeline.
Go to Integritydoescount...then to Events.
Finance Guy said,
"Agreed to some degree, but 1)The overall tone is tainted by those who have a personal agenda hidden behind a facade of "concernedness". Also those who are just plain acting with spiritual immaturity, and 2) You don't need a blog to ask God for help, which is what should be going on.
Interestingly enough, if you get the podcast for Love Worth Finding, listen to the one from February 20, 2007, titled "Surviving Apostasy"."
Reply: Finance Guy…
#1-I really think you misunderstand the majority of the Christian people on this blog. This group of people are the best of the best. Now I am speaking of those resisters who are working earnestly to try to save their church. They recognize the deceit so prevalent within the walls of Bellevue. I truly think you are taking offense at something you should appreciate. These folks have tested the spirits and sounded the alarm. They are surprised and dismayed at the treatment some of their fellow Christians have undergone.. You apparently are fooling yourself if you see these people as spiritually immature.
#2-You can’t be serious. I am certain nobody here thinks they need to pray through a blog in order to reach God and ask for His help. I think this is the worst insult I have seen on the blog FG. Surely you didn’t mean this the way it reads and sounds.
(Don’t confuse blog with labyrinth.) I feel sure the people here are in prayer… This remark really is offbeat.
I will make a point to listen to this service by Dr. Rogers. Thank you.
Ima
Why I am here!
I'll be direct and to the point. I am not here to cry out for help. I am here to cry out to others that which I have seen and heard.
If the church gave me the opportunity I would speak the same exact words at Bellevue. This blog gives me the opportunity to share the truth of these events with any members that are willing to hear the truth.
The church is sinking deep in sin and some one needs to stand up and say "Stop". People are following after lies and cunningly devised fables. The truth lies dead in the aisles. This is not a time to carefully or craftily measure words but a time to yell the truth from the mountain tops. Yes, people may be getting saved, but it is in spite of the sin in the camp not because of it.
I've said before that I am no politician. I will never win a popularity contest and personally don't care.
On a lighter note, my Uncle Bill Looney once told me, "Tim, you have the perfect face for radio". As I looked in the mirror this morning I realized that truer words have never been spoken.
imaresistor,
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I mean no offense, but your comment about a "plea for help" needs to be clarified. (See Psalm 121:1-8.)
The alarm has been sounded. People know what the issues are. I think that the blog is in danger of causing more harm than good. Any efforts should be focused on Prayer and personal worship. I do not believe this battle is over, but I do believe that it's time for "new weapons". This is not a battle against flesh and blood, and too few people understand this. Some think that all you have to do is remove certain people from certain positions and volia! Problem solved!
I firmly believe that the "current troubles" are ordained of God to work in us individually and corporately. There are some deeply rooted spiritual problems at Bellevue, dating back years. All the petitions and business meetings in the world aren't going to change hearts, which I believe is God's ultimate goal for us. While I think that what a group of deacons did in manipulating that business meeting was shameful as well as down right deceptive, it just goes to prove that fighting with man's weapons isn't going to get anyone anywhere in a spiritual battle.
Was Mark Sharpe wrong in his actions of a year or so ago? Was it wrong for others to not stand beside him at that time? I do not know. That's between Mr. Sharpe and God, and between the other deacons/staff involved and God. Was it wrong for others to sit and "wring their hands" in silence? Again, that's not my call to make. Of one thing I am certain, none of this takes God by surprise. Dr. Rogers had two pieces of "sound-bite wisdom". He said "were man rules, God overrules.", and the "Holy Trinity never meets in emergency session". Both of those truths have given me a lot of comfort of late. Trust me, if the time comes where it's clear that God calls me to action, I'm not afraid to do so. However, unless it's clear that God is calling me to some kind of action, to take any is to be striking out on my own. And I would certainly get my head cut clean off to no benefit.
Tim and friends, Contending for the truth of scriptures is NEVER a lost cause. And never something to compromise or 'move on' over.
The Word is everything. It is life. It cannot be ignored, twisted or taugh half way if we really love Christ.
Just ask a Christian in Pakistan or China what the Word means to them. They are willing to die for it and have. Praise God tonight for Jesus and the Word He left us.
I think at issue here, concerning that everyone "knows" what the issues are, is that knowing the issues and understanding the ramifications of the issues are two different things. I see this in people all the time...been guilty of it myself...we don't look past the immediate to think on what the present issues will mean down the road...shortsightedness is a killer. Prayer is the right thing, fg, but prayers with no feet are just words.
Finance guy,
False teachers are to be exposed. Read the link watchmen posted from Pastor Bob Dewaay. Be a Berean and check out his teaching on this.
Do you know what the real danger is of false teachers? There is no real threat if they something explicitly anti biblical, anti Christ and anti God. But the great danger to the church from subtle false teaching is that it appears to be Biblical and pulls unwary souls from the full truth and Counsel of God.
The sublty of false teaching is that is uses the Word of God but misrepresents its teaching. Like we have seen today here on the blog about the Tower of Babel.
The church in Ephesus was greatly blessed more than any other in the NT. Paul ministered there for 3 years! Yet, he warned the church, "After I depart greivous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things (heresies), to draw disciples after them." ACTS 20
Paul knew that the church at Ephesus, like any church, would come under attack from lying teachers. And it happened. Any church that stands for truth will eventually have to deal with who Paul calls 'corrupters of the Word of God (2 Corin 2) He also refers to them as 'handling the Word of God decietfully.
There are warnings about false teachers in almost all the letters.
lin,
Don't forget the first false teacher, that subtle serpent. He elequently parapharased the Word of God to tempt Eve. His seductions usually contain a high level of truth with a subtle lie.
"As for me and my house, James, (though we stand alone), we will serve the LORD"
Keith, I mean this in love to you but your post sounds more like you are serving your emotions.
Keith, all the talk of 'unity' these days is exactly what we have done with the word 'tolerance'. We have made it something it is not. We can only live in peace and unity within the Word.
The teaching of the Tower of Babel on the blog today is a perfect example of this. It was false teaching that can literally lead people to hell. It is that serious. It is not about not liking someone who teaches this. It is about fearing God who can kill the body and SOUL more than I fear man who can only kill the body.
Did you know that once we know the the truth of the Word we are responsible for it?
"Don't forget the first false teacher, that subtle serpent. He elequently parapharased the Word of God to tempt Eve. His seductions usually contain a high level of truth with a subtle lie."
Tim, I am glad you brought this up. I was re-reading Gen 3 just the other day. And it struck me like a ten ton truck. Think of what the serpent said to Eve: Surely you will not die.
Now, what does that sound like? It sounds just like all the watered down seeker stuff today. "God would not do that". God loves you just as you are! A God of Love would never do that....etc., etc.,
It's not like the serpent said, I am god, listen to me. He told Adam and Eve: YOU will be like gods. It was man centered! And seeker language!! It really hit me when I read it.
That is where it all started and here we are today. Sin is no big deal. Ignoring scripture is NO big deal...and if you think it is...you are divisive, mean, etc.
gmommylv said...
I love being a peon for the Lord!!!! "
Me too, sister.
Solomon,
I have no idea who you are and am sorry you are so frustrated.
Seems spooky to me that you are accusing a person you know nothing about of things you have no idea about.
I have no idea who Sunquist is except that he bothers you alot.
I don't have to prove anything to you especially what I read and study.
You sound like JMO or the angry Truth Ruse......he once accused me of putting info on the blog about a $3o,ooo check to DG.
I never post on finances just on sexual deviants and false teachers.
It doesn't matter what you call yourself or me.
I am a peon for the Lord.
Go rant to whoever Sunquist is...I thought he was the governor at one time....
Got a problem with Don too???
How about Amos???
Everyone??...Oh,OK
lin,
how in the world did you get from my comment that I don't think false teachers should be called out? I simply state that in my opinion, this blog has outlived it's usefulness in this situation. I'm not sure that what's going on here is more gossip and speculation, and less revealing of false teaching. If someone wants to keep track of the times that the Pastor contradicts himself from one sermon to another and uses Scripture in questionable context that's one thing. But to speculate on this or that "moral failing" and to continually rehash past events begins to sound a little desparate. The alarm has been raised. Some agree and some don't, but to continually call those that don't "blind" and 'undiscerning" is unnecessarily divisive. There is enough dividing going on from all parties involved without adding too it. If I were you, I would be comforted to know that I was in the minority, as in spiritual terms, the majority is often wrong. If God removes anyone from any position of leadership at Bellevue, I do not believe it will be with a majority vote. Thus, again I state that the weapons are not 501(c) organizations, websites and blogs. Can they be useful tools? Of course. However, there is only one weapon in this or any other spiritual fight, and it can only be wielded on your knees. I again ask how much intercessory prayer is being engaged in among the bloggers and others who may not be reading or commenting, but are still the "concerned"? I don't think it's been very much, if any.
This is not a call to surrender. It's a call for more prayer. Please do not misunderstand.
fg wrote:
"I again ask how much intercessory prayer is being engaged in among the bloggers and others who may not be reading or commenting, but are still the "concerned"? I don't think it's been very much, if any."
With all due respect, you have no way of knowing the answer to that, but I agree we can always spend more time in prayer.
By the way, did you get my e-mail?
FG,
If it has outlived it's usefullness for you, that is certainly your decision to make for yourself.
I don't believe you have the authority over any of us...or that we asked for your humble opinion of or for us.
But thank you for your concern.
Finance Guy,
I agree with you. What you are saying is all true particularly at this point.
Dee
Solomon,
I can only speak for myself, but feel sure everyone here knows your feelings about James Sundquist. Apparently, you failed to read his response to your frustration about his post. You totally misunderstood his post. You need to go back and find it, so you can find comfort on this subject. I'm sure you will appreciate his efforts when you read his post.
FG, you have mail with a groveling apology attached. :o)
Finance Guy,
You are wrong. People can and do make a difference. God uses people to accomplish his will. God uses them in the way that he chooses. If yours is not to blog then for heavens sakes quit blogging. For those that God has directed here who are you to say differently. Please point to the speculation that you speak of. There is none. None. None.
The last petition was instrumental in at least bringing a meeting and at the meeting a open mike church meeting was stated as being a necessity. It happened. I guess that shows what your spiritual discernment is on what is useful and what is not. By the way the powers and principalities that we wrestle against are quite often in human flesh. You are hanging an awful lot on one verse of scripture without considering the entirity of scripture. Prayer is good, prayer is wonderful, but if that is all that is done then the body of Christ becomes a crippled with no legs to stand on.
I suppose that you believe that if nobody does anything then poof every thing will work out. Viola. Well, wrong again. No one would know this much with out this blog and there is more that is waiting on precious verification before being released.
I suppose that you can pray when you want to, fact is that I haven't ever stopped. I pray when I type. I pray when I drive. I pray when awake and when I lie down.
PS. Perhaps some of you folks should spend more time praying than cutting and pasting from this blog over to Brattons to issue a trashing a those over here. It reminds me a lot of a certain preacher that thought he would run behind peoples backs and trash them.
FG said
This is not a call to surrender. It's a call for more prayer. Please do not misunderstand
Piglet says:
Yes, the two are not mutually exclusive are they? We can request the meetings we are entitled to per our bylaws, push for transparency, whatever is in our power and responsibility to do but not neglect prayer that asks for God's guidance and intervention.
I've always known this was impossible apart from God's hand.
The blog has been a place of encouragement when our church has ceased to be. We have grown to love one another and lift one another up in this struggle. I have seen the benefit of this in my own life.
The blog also holds the leadership accountable where we do not have meetings to do so. There is no abrupt adjournment here. There are no secrets, no repercussions for truth, only open dialog. I am thankful for it.
I am sure it has been a thorn in the flesh for those who have tried to keep everything quiet and keep people quiet. For that I am also thankful.
Thanks again, NBBCOF for this opportunity.
Maybe you find it more worth your while at the Bratton Report. I notice that he quotes us out of context and then jumps to wild conclusions over there. Maybe you could tell him to stop lobbing stones and pray for us divisive bloggers. :)
Love you guys!!!
Have a blessed Easter, wherever you worship!!!!
G'nite.
good night piglet....right behind you.
night... cakes,Nass,concerned,Tim, doc,ima,lin...all my truthseeker/blog sisters and brothers!!!
Have a happy Easter.
Folks...
Christ is Risen!!!
Have a glorious Resurrection Day in the Lord!
God Bless...
Ima
NASS
I've not received any email from you.
Tim,
you misunderstand, but as church begins at 8am tomorrow, i've got to go to bed. I'll try to explain later.
fg,
I just replied.
He is Risen Indeed!
A Happy and Blessed RESURRECTION DAY to ALL.
The new age movement and Christianity merging fully in 2007.
Details below:
CROSSING THE LINE TO A POINT OF NO RETURN
Encouragement for those in America who are suffering for TRUTH.
SUFFERING FOR TRUTH
HE IS RISEN!!!!
HE IS RISEN INDEED!!
I hope everyone had good worship this morning. I ran into a fellow blogger and BBC refugee this morning where I worshiped. Praise the Sovereign Lord for His resurrection power!
One of the songs we sang this morning was "Because He Lives" and I thought the words were so encouraging.
Because He lives,
I can face tomorrow
Because He lives
All fear is gone
Because I know He holds the future
And life is worth the living just because He lives.
Bless you all.
Theres a special that will be on Fox News at 3pm CT about Jesus. Its titled "The Passion: Facts, Fiction, and Faith". Not sure what all it details though.
I would guess the seminary study is at Southwestern, SG's alma mater...I get hits from them on my own blog. I would also guess they, just as you, consider their conclusions to be the last word on the issue. jmo.
Happy Easter to you to, Brady.
As an addendum...perhaps churches as large as BBC are what's unrealistic...I'm no seminarian but I don't think the Bible gives one set of standards for small churches and another for large ones. But if I've missed something, I'm open to correction.
Brady,
The calm before the storm.
Thankyou Brady, it is good to know that seminaries are producing psychoanalysts instead of ministers. Thanks for the warning.
Brady,
Steve Gaines is one of many seminary trained preachers who don't have a clue about being a pastor.
Your post if true speaks volumes about the trouble facing our nation if the SBC seminaries are going to be pumping preachers out who are more interested in power and money than the Word.
Unless and until "brady" or someone else can come up with a link or verifiable source for that information, I have deleted it. I'm not saying I don't believe it, because it sounds all too real given the attitudes of some pastors today, just that I don't trust the source.
A "dominant, opinionated woman." Gasp! The horrors! Of course, any woman with an opinion who dares express said opinion has "unresolved issues." Everybody knows that! David Coombs has been reported to have said, "As Christians, we are all slaves of Christ without rights. A Christian wife cannot demand the right to not be hurt physically by her husband." Women should be seen and never heard, you know. Well, folks, just maybe if the men of BBC would grow spines, the women wouldn't have to speak out. Ever think about that?
A deacon officer has been reported as stating that he's not staying at Bellevue unless Mrs. Rogers speaks out. Now, if she does, he's reportedly said that he'll be there to "catch the arrows" that are flung at her. All I can say is, "Sir, you call yourself a man and the spiritual leader of your family?" You'll stand up if Dr. Rogers' precious widow stands up first? You should be ashamed of yourself!
Were the services at BBC packed today as they usually are on Easter Sunday?
We worshipped at GBC today and Bellevue members were beside, directly in front and behind us. GBC was full in the lower sanctuary and almost to capacity in the balcony in the 9 am service.
Lots of Bellevue members there.
It was a beautiful Easter service.
Hope everyone has had a wonderful Easter.
Brady,
Thank God for any woman who has stood up and spoken for the Truth since Steve Gaines came.
Many times in the scripture, God has used women in a very powerful manner.
Esther was an incredible woman that God chose to use. She was a remarkable woman who stood alone against the rising tide of wrong.
Esther stood alone at a crucial time and she helped save her nation.
If you haven't read Esther lately, I encourage you to read it this week. A good lesson for men and woman can be found in Esther.
I believe it will give many of us the courage to stand.
For those that may not know,
Rob Mullins mother passed away, please keep Rob & his family in your prayers.
GBC will have the information on arrangements.
The 11:00 service at BBC was not full by any means. If I had to guess, I'd say the main floor was maybe 65% and the balcony maybe 25%. Those are only my estimates of course. I do know there were plenty of empty seats around us.
Happy Easter, Truthseekers.
The day is beautiful and so are y'all.
Love, D.
Cakes,
It is a beautiful Easter day!!
Blessings to you also.
watchman, thank you for posting 'Suffering for Truth'. I hope everyone will read it.
"A "dominant, opinionated woman." Gasp! The horrors! Of course, any woman with an opinion who dares express said opinion has "unresolved issues."
Sounds like I missed a post from
one of the many "Patriarchs" from movement that seems to be coming out in full force these days.
One has to wonder why Jesus would bother showing Himself to MM first out of the Tomb commanding her to go and tell the disciples that He is Risen! Why should they listen to her?
Check out the new Church for Men Only. Oh, wait. Don't we already have that? They call it "Morning Manna."
I guess it just wouldn't be the same if women came. {sigh}
I tell you what NASS, you can go to MM with me if I can do that Beth Moore stuff with you:)
I am sure the sausage biscuits are better than the chicken salad. :)
Course that offer is qualified by the requirement that we get written aproval from your better half and mine.
Have you guys ever heard of Vision Forum? Big homeschool website. The guy that owns it, Doug Phillips, has a church and he does not allow women to talk at all in church. As a matter of fact, if a woman is there and there is communion, her husband has to get it for her. If he is not there...then her son..even if he is only 8. if no son, then she has to arrange for a deacon to get it for her. She is not even allowed to give a prayer request! A man has to do it for her!!
You all would be surprised how many churches there are like this out there. And, they are growing.
You all may recognize the name. His dad, Howard Phillips, ran for Prez a few times.
lin,
I am pretty sure that I read somewhere...maybe in Acts where the WORD says that men and women are equal upon receiving baptism of the Holy Spirit...
By the way, men like to use Timothy but how do we deal with Phil 4? Syntyche, or Prysilla?
WEll, good evening Truth Seekers and others!!!
What a glorious worship service we had this morning at GBC!!!
And it was so nice to know that Mrs. Rogers joined us in worship today at GBC.
Mike Spradlin, as usual, did a superb job...the music was reverent, it was just a marvelous worship experience.
I saw many many bbc faces.
It helps in the transition to see people that you know.
Lin: That's WAY over the top. I believe in male leadership but also the priesthood of the believer....and that even means women! *gasp*
Lin,
I never heard of a church that did not allow women to talk.
I would have to say that church would DEFINITELY not be for me!!
:)
Ez, this subject is a can of worms! There are such passions on both sides. How do we deal with many things: Your sons and daughters shall prophesy OR there is no greek nor jew, no slave nor free...
Both sides go too far.
There are quite a few patriarch blogs out there right now teaching that women are in sin if they are in authority over a man at work, in government, etc. I wonder how they handle it when a woman cop pulls them over for a ticket. Ya think they submit? :o)
Just curious ... what is the $10 charge for the April 12 - May 17 Morning Manna for?
lin said:
There are quite a few patriarch blogs out there right now teaching that women are in sin if they are in authority over a man at work, in government, etc
SOTL says:
That sounds like Islam to me!! What's next? BURQA's? Sorry, but I don't look good in blue.
They would have already chopped my head off just to get me to shut up talking!!!! hehe
Junk,
Palm reading?
Two things from me - 1) I believe we are all equal at the foot of the cross. In Christ we exist on a level field. I know church history, scripture, opinions, etc., but to create a hierarchy based on any basis other than the Lordship of Christ in the believer requires diluting this basic concept - my opinion which is studied and satisfies me. You have a right to however you choose to believe. 2) I attended the 9:30 service today after being absent many weeks. Kinda got the confirmation that I felt the 1st time I heard the now-not-so-new pastor. For me he just doesn't fit. That's regardless if I am ONLY one out of the many thousands who follow him. I have no agenda. No campaign. I do have liberty in my spiritual person to make the best choices for me. He isn't. No aspersions cast at anyone. Much easier for me as I have no long term experience in that congregation.
Just a question about the 'no women allowed to speak' church. Are the women allowed to sing? Just curious.
SOTL,
I'm very glad you get to "talk" here. And, though I've never seen you, I'm sure you'd look very nice in blue.
Let me tell you my story. A little over a year ago when it was apparent there were problems in our former church, one of the members, a former minister, presented a plan one night to the congregation about the planning committee's vision for our church. The plans were to entirely revamp the church...go from committees to ministry teams. We had already gone through a mail-out survey; so things were...questionable. Anyway, during this meeting, one of the women who was head of one of the committees and who was 'inside the loop' asked the question, "When are we going to change the bylaws Bro. XXX?" Red flags! He shhhh'ed her...told her later, later. You could tell he didn't want that to come up just yet. There had been a meeting called by this committee and included members they said were 'key leaders'. Anyway, that night during the period of time alloted for question by this man, I stood and asked a question. I asked where the committee had gotten the concept for these plans...all of them including the vision, the mission statement, everything. It made him mad. He acted really ugly to me. The next day, he called and left a message on our answering machine for my husband...he wanted to talk to him. Turns out he said I had offended him with my question and that he would not talk with me because of my gender...because I am a woman. My husband assured him that I had just wanted to know where the concept for the ideas had come from...the man insisted that God gave them to him...that he had never heard of them from anywhere else. Long story...could take weeks to tell all this, but the short of it is that this man went through my husband because he said I offended him and he refused to talk to me because I am a woman. I tried to talk at church the next time we saw him but he turned his head and refused to even speak to me. Later we were singled out and preached about from the pulpit and they brought up the fact that I had treated this minister cruelly. I said I guessed he wouldn't talk to me, but he didn't mind talking about me. Don't think it is Biblical that one goes through the husband if a female offends. Course, I didn't offend. I realized later the reason he got so upset was because I was about to expose him and the PD strategy they were sneaking in...and I didn't even know what it was at the time! Talk about being put down because of your gender!
Junk: You're right; SOTL does look good in blue!
Frankly, as we learned in SS today ;) WOMEN went to the tomb before dawn to prepare the body....just one of many examples of the contributions of Godly women.
Just a question about the 'no women allowed to speak' church. Are the women allowed to sing? Just curious. "
ha! I asked that, too. Yes, they can sing the hymns.
Lin,
Are the women that are left at that church now wearing burquas?
junk and SBCer,
Ya'll are too kind!!
Hey, I have a real live blue Burqa given to me by a missionary cousin who worked in Afghanistan. You would not believe how hard it is so see anything! Not to mention tripping over the hem.
One thing about them...the fabric is some of the finest silk I have ever seen. Esquisite...but hot!
eprov,
First, good to see you back...second, what you experienced this morning is no different than what many of us sensed early on..and even more so as time went on.
I was blessed to hear a good message this morning on the meaning of Christ's resurrection for the believer..very in-depth. My daughter said it went over her head...which I think is a good thing...she's being spiritually challenged..something that's been missing. I pray that others of you are finding places to get the spiritual food all of us need. Blessings.
Lin,
That man felt threatened by you.
It sure takes a gutless wonder of a man to blame it on the fact that you are a woman and so that is why he cannot talk to you.
How C O N V E N I E N T!!!
Some of those men need to MAN UP!
Are the women that are left at that church now wearing burquas?"
Ha ha. But you know what? They don't wear pants or shorts.
It is like discussing the customs of a different country, isn't it.
Lin,
Give me the burqua, i'll cut it up and make an esquite pair of slacks and matching blazer!!!
sotl, that was ima...that happened to...my dear sister in Christ.
Lin,
My great grandmother ( Tucker's Crossing, Mississippi) hated it when we would come to her house wearing shorts. We were 6, 7, 8 years old!!
She lived to be in her 90's and had received a 50 year attendance pin from Tucker's Crossing Baptist Church.
junk99mail,
Supposedly the $10 was to cover the cost of Steve's book that they pass out.
ezekiel said:
Supposedly the $10 was to cover the cost of Steve's book that they pass out.
SOTL says:
Well, that's ONE way to sell your book!
Thanks, zeke!
I guess you all can guess that I did not attend the day the message was "the Godly man's wallet" :)
Give me the burqua, i'll cut it up and make an esquite pair of slacks and matching blazer!!!
Ha Ha. It would be beautiful!
Hey one of the mission projects is getting these women sewing contracts because they are so poor. You would NOT believe the clothes they make. The tailoring is beautiful and the fabrics wonderful. (It is the old silk road, you know) It was almost a lost art under the Taliban who forbade any sewing outside the burqa type stuff.
They made an outfit for my daughter and the embroidery is unbelieveable. It is a traditional outfit for little girls with the balloon pants and long top.
Thing is, you have to dry clean everthing because they will shrink to fit a barbie.
My great grandmother ( Tucker's Crossing, Mississippi) hated it when we would come to her house wearing shorts. We were 6, 7, 8 years old!!"
Wow. I guess that meant that jeans were out, too?
Unless you were there and heard this, you may not believe it, but I swear on Bill Loney's cockles that these words came out of Steve Gaines' mouth this morning during his sermon...
"We are to feed the sheep, not beat the sheep."
I felt my jaw drop slightly, and I actually heard myself gasp!
NASS: Maybe he's been doing some reading on this blog?
Lin,
This was in the early 60's....I never even put on a pair of jeans until 1970.
Talk's cheap. Perhaps he should back those words up with action.
I think he intentionally says things like that just to confuse the issues.
Remember, confusion is not from God.
concernedsbcer,
Ya think?
He also said God can deliver you from any sin -- and listed several things -- including "a spirit of rebelliousness which is like witchcraft." {insert knife and twist}
Which of these does Dr. Loney have?
cock·le 1 (kŏk'əl)
n.
-Any of various bivalve mollusks of the family Cardiidae, having rounded or heart-shaped shells with radiating ribs.
-The shell of a cockle.
-A wrinkle; a pucker.
-Nautical A cockleshell.
intr. & tr.v. cock·led, cock·ling, cock·les
-To become or cause to become wrinkled or puckered.
[Middle English cokel, from Old French coquille, shell, from Vulgar Latin *cochillia, from Latin conchyllium, from Greek konkhulion, diminutive of konkhē, mussel.]
cock·le 2 (kŏk'əl)
n.
Any of several weedy plants, especially the corn cockle.
Does anyone know more about the young lady BBC arrested recently, how is she. Do you know how many people they have arrested in the past years and decades of BBC history? any previous members out there who would like to comment or any current members, any laymen at this website? has anyone see PW there?
junk,
3. n. cockles of (one's) heart:
One's innermost feelings. As in, "Dr. Loney's poignant tales about his delightful family warmed the cockles of my heart."
Well, the one about the chicken gizzard piñata sort of turned my stomach, but I digress.
I thought Doc Loney had a Ford Country Squire Station Wagon!!!!!!!
NASS,
Sometimes there's a fine line between one's innermost feelings and an upset stomach.
Burquas and cockles alive,alive oh!
Sweet Molly Malone!!
remember
I can't erase the memory of a lady who was silenced from clapping on a Wednesday night 5 or 6 years ago.
Junk,
You're good. I was wondering if anyone remembered that song! Leave it to you.
Burquas would be good on a bad hair day, but then, so would a hat or cap. Cockles is a strange word that I would prefer to leave out of my vocabulary.
"Sometimes there's a fine line between one's innermost feelings and an upset stomach." - Something I relate to.
oc,
If socwork doesn't come through, maybe Sweet Molly Malone will give you a ride in her WHEELBARROW.
Charlie.
Looks like I might have to settle for that. Socwork is not cooperating!
Has anyone looked at #12 video of Josh Manning and Jim Angel?
Why would Jim Angel do what he did? Has anyone talked to Jim Angel to see why he participated in shutting down the business meeting just when progress was starting to be made?
Does anyone know if Jim Angel has financial ties to Bellevue?
It just doesn't make sense for Jim Angel or anyone else to do what he did. Bryan Miller started the meeting out telling everyone they would have their chance to be heard as long as they were willing to play by the rules.
The way the meeting ended was not by the rules. Josh Manning was standing at the podium and asked for a procedure that Roberts Rules calls for and Bryan Miller ignored him.
Does anyone know how much we paid Steve McCarty to come in from out of town and tell Bryan Miller what to do as a parliamentarian consultant?
How can we play by the rules when the leadership won't play by the rules?
nathan,
the whole meeting was fixed more than a WWE Wrestling match!
Angel was a plant, in my opinion. They saw Josh Manning at the mike and as soon as he brought up some of the real issues, it was time to end it. It was a total sham. Vince McMahon thinks it was stupid.
This song had been on my heart all afternoon:
All that thrills my soul is Jesus; He is more than life to me; And the fairest of ten thousand, In my blessed Lord I see.
Who can cheer the heart like Jesus, by His presence all divine? True and tender, pure and precious, O how blest to call Him mine!
Love of Christ so feely given, Grace of God beyond degree, Mercy higher than the heaven, deeper than the deepest sea.
copyright Thoro Harris - a righteous man.
Angel was a plant, in my opinion. They saw Josh Manning at the mike and as soon as he brought up some of the real issues, it was time to end it. It was a total sham. Vince McMahon thinks it was stupid.
There's more to this than just opinion. Pay attention friends.
lynn,
I still don't understand what they would be afraid of having quarterly business meetings.
A lot of churches have monthly business meetings so quarterly business meetings on a night during the week to inform the church congregation of things can't be a bad thing.
Why would the leadership not want that to happen?
socwork: there was an earlier post concerning this that it was all part of a plan to stop the business meeting at 45 minutes. Is that what you are referring to? Or do we need to continue listening?
FYI - Someone posted the BBC Business meeting to You Tube. If you want to see it you had better watch it now before the admin makes them yank it.
One comment - the end of the meeting was badly mishandled. The parliamentarian should have known there are several motions that are in order during and even AFTER a vote to adjourn has taken place. This was simply a terrible execution of Robert’s Rules.
concernedsbcer,
Yes, that is what I was referring to.
"We are to feed the sheep, not beat the sheep."
Well, since he is somewhat 'word-faith', maybe he thinks he can 'speak it into existence'.
I just watched the business meeting. I was especially interested in the "people watching" of the members in the tv shot behind the speakers. I couldn't believe there were people voting to adjurn with a simple resolution to have quarterly business meetings. It seemed a staged vote. And I've never been to a church business meeting before (my church has them at the very least every quarter) where it was everyone complimenting everyone else. Seems like business needed to be accomplished instead. jmho
nathanb said...
Has anyone looked at #12 video of Josh Manning and Jim Angel?
...YES
nathanb said...
Why would Jim Angel do what he did?
...Jim Angel is sold out to a man or men. Jim Angel was as concerned as anyone in the early days of SG, but then he got his seat back at "the table" (communications committee).
nathanb said...
Has anyone talked to Jim Angel to see why he participated in shutting down the business meeting just when progress was starting to be made?
...Jim did as he was told. Jim has not outwardly confessed his actions were predetermined, but SG has admitted that Jim was a plant. If Jim Angel would not have ended it, someone else would have. We can only speculate why. My assumption is to gain more status in the eyes of these men. He is working his way back to the top.
nathanb said...
Does anyone know if Jim Angel has financial ties to Bellevue?
...NO
nathanb said...
It just doesn't make sense for Jim Angel or anyone else to do what he did. Bryan Miller started the meeting out telling everyone they would have their chance to be heard as long as they were willing to play by the rules.
...They determined from the beginning, even though they claimed otherwise that they had no intent to allow the meeting to go further than they predetermined. This has been stated on more than one occassion. It is evident that to these men, THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS.
nathanb said...
The way the meeting ended was not by the rules. Josh Manning was standing at the podium and asked for a procedure that Roberts Rules calls for and Bryan Miller ignored him.
...It really would not have mattered. It was predetermined that this meeting was going to end....period!
nathanb said...
How can we play by the rules when the leadership won't play by the rules?
..I would encourage you to follow God's rules. Seek God and see what HE wants your response to be. For my family, we spoke to those involved, realized we could not change the circumstances and then voted with our feet.
God Bless you as you seek.
Socwork,
Are we to pay attention because this is being brought up tonight and gremlins are coming out to play????
If not.....we can take our pick of why the meeting was shut down.
It was preplanned..plants included for sure!
JM brought up "old Business" and leadership didn't like that he had done his homework and knew he could in fact present the 2 prong motion
The victim was walking down the stairs to the mic. SG would have had a clear view of him ...
maybe even Webb who thought he was a secret service guy staying on his cell telling the cameras where to zone in.
What I still want to know and have no idea why this keeps bugging me...WHY did BM say that word that was not included in the SBC purity for ministers.???TWICE!
Don't talk about any realtives,please......
No matter what...
he has got to be humiliated that he would "slip" like that unless it was the "cue" word which would have been a strange word to agree on.......
and I wonder what JM thought hearing him call the SBC thing that word??
JM was not the only one calling out the proper Roberts Rules to the silenced mic.
There was another also.
Leadership was playing with us......dangling a carrot....we bust ourselves to go by the rules they set then like all sick corrupt people do....or leadership..they worked the rules to suit them....NO TRUTH ALLOWED at BBC.
Sorry!!!!
If everyone votes with their feet......how are we keeping our weaker brother from stumbling? How are we being obedient to God's word???
How is that standing for truth??
Somebody help me here as I am not the resident theology person....
but this is not scriptural.....to just leave without doing all we can!
Let's also remember to pray for professions of faith during a difficult time. According to the deacon report we had 32 in January, 26 in February, and 11 in March.
What were those words in Union City? "I did not just fall off the turnip wagon"?
Guess not, the deception has apparently been well practiced.
gmommylv,
You may want to do some research on the following post by facts_only_please.
facts_only_please said...
1) David Coombs has admitted that there was indeed a plan to end the Business Meeting after approximately 45 minutes. When Jim Angel made the motion to adjourn the meeting, it was not by coincidence. It was planned.
2) While at the MABTS on Thursday, 04/05/07, Steve Gaines was heard making the following statement: “Yeah, when we saw CW (he actually used the name in his direct quote) approaching that mike, we shut down that meeting.”
Now, most likely these two statements by our Pastor and David Coombs will NOT change anybody's opinion or view of what is going on within our church. The probably reaction for many will be to defend them for their statements and criticize those of us who have taken a stand to try to get at the Truth...wherever Truth is...regardless of the cost.
hi gmommylv,
I just wanted to make sure that those who are seeking truth (aka facts) here pay attention as these allegations about plants/pre-planning in the meeting are more than mere opinions or conspiracy theory. That's all.
AS was noted:
The parliamentarian should have known there are several motions that are in order during and even AFTER a vote to adjourn has taken place. This was simply a terrible execution of Robert’s Rules.
And just how much did BBC pay this parliametarian?
As has been said before, follow the money.
psalm 43:3,
Thanks for sharing that info about professions of faith. That is very interesting, to say the least.
Socwork: Email me please.
Thanks!
lily,
Some poster way back made it clear that the parlimentarian was for the benefit of the leadership and would not interfere if the leadership did not follow proper rules.
psalm 43:3,
Thanks for sharing that info about professions of faith. That is very interesting, to say the least.
9:02 PM, April 08, 2007
Let us pray that a 'profession' of faith becomes a regenerated heart which is a work of the Holy Spirit.
gmommy,
Good to see you at worship this morning.
No matter what...
he has got to be humiliated that he would "slip" like that unless it was the "cue" word which would have been a strange word to agree on.......
and I wonder what JM thought hearing him call the SBC thing that word??
I think you hit the nail on the head...I think it was definitely a cue word.
gmommylv said...
Sorry!!!!
If everyone votes with their feet......
gmommylv,
My point is that we are each to do what God has shown us to do...no more...no less.
I have have done that.
God may be showing you something else. I encourage you in your walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit.
There is a great danger as I have seen here on this blog called...FLESH.
Vengeance is mine says the Lord.
We are to be used by God for His purpose, not ours. We have tendencies to want to see things on our time frame. His ways are not our ways.
There is a danger of letting this situation suck the life out of you and your family. This is not Gods' desire for His children.
I would not try to convince you or anyone else to leave BBC. That is between you and God.
It would be nice to see a forum on this blog of what God is showing those here through this situation.
bbc refugee,
Seems to me God has been showing a lot of us in His Word about how seriously He takes our sin (eg. lack of integrity). jmo
Charlie,
Thanks, I did know those things said by DC and SG ...not the mention of our friends name,however.
I was really saying ,I guess,that no matter how or what we did...they were going to control....and laugh about it.
While some sat on their hands
or
stayed in their prayer closets
or
waited for the "right" person to step forward before they would stand against what was clearly wrong
what we know as BBC was stolen.
Now SG APOLOGIZES to guests.....saying,
our church is ''in transition " but that's OK.......
is it OK to not protect the unprotected?
And for the wolves to run off the sheep?
Didn't some know it all JMO's claim the brute would make things better....restore integrity??
I guess that included his lying then joking about it in front of the congregation at the bogus business meeting?
I need a new dictionary.Not what I thought integrity was about.
gmommy: You've got mail. :)
bbc refugee,
If you are going to talk judgementally to us then please read up....we do share how God is teaching us and growing us.
I am trying to understand how others can walk away . I just don't know how to explain it to the son I taught to stand for God's truth whatever the costs.
This life is not about comfort.
Maybe it is clearer to those not use to comfort.
Absolutely not being ugly to you but another thing I am learning.
Socwork,
I can certainly testify that God has shown me alot about myself through this. As I have been disappointed in many of these men, God has shown me the importance of my own integrity in my family, church, work, etc. It is so easy to think so highly of myself.
God has helped me to realize that I am a decision away from causing my family much pain, one decision away from destroying my testimony, my families testimony, etc.
I thank God for peeling off the many layers covering my eyes toward my sins.
I cannot change these men, but God has given me the ability to change myself.
Part 12 4:20 mark
Chairman:
“And the chairman determines that a majority has voted to adjourn.
Background noise…Chairman turns and consults with the parliamentarian. “is there any other motion that… [Unintelligible]
“Our parliamentarian has again informed me that there…that the business meeting has concluded. There are no other motions that could be considered at this time.
This is so basic and so wrong.
The parliamentarian gave inaccurate information to the chair. He should have known better.
General.
He did know better.
I think we all know now that the whole thing was rigged from beginning to end...the evidence is pretty overwhelming. Question is, what to do about it? Finance guy says we should just pray..but I repeat, prayers with no feet to them are only words..the Bible does say that "the fervent effectual prayer of a righteous man availeth much."...but it also points to prayer + action...not sitting on our duffs and waiting for a miracle. jmo
gmommylv said...
bbc refugee,
If you are going to talk judgementally to us then please read up....
I am trying to understand how others can walk away ...
gmommylv,
I am sorry if you are feeling judged by my post. That is not my intent. Nor do I feel judged by your response. I do not believe I am able to help you understand "how others can just walk away".
I can't tell you or anyone what they should do. Once I knew God released us from BBC, I had the task of finding a new church to worship. This was not fun....at all! However, I did have total peace knowing we were in God's will. Because of this He would be faithful in showing us a new Home. God is faithful and we have found a new home.
This has not and does not keep us from standing for truth with those who have asked us questions. Because I was able to find truth in this situation, I feel a responsibility to share it when asked. BBC and our brothers and sisters have not left our prayers.
allofgrace,
I agree. Pray for wisdom,please. Somehow God will need to guide and use us,the peons. Too many have waited to hear the bugle blown by a "recognizable" leader.
We carry God's banner of truth....
we don't need a deacon to come out of hiding or
some of the ones dismissed that have signed something they should not have to tell of the coruption.
We do need a game plan...and it probably needs to include the media.
Others have spoken out in articles.....and their identity has been kept private.
What if the men who have been asked to resign or
had their deaconess(??) taken away...EVEN THO BM LIES THAT NO DEACON HAS LEFT because of the corruption.........sorry,carried away for a moment.....
if these people spoke to Wendy of the CA without giving their identity...it could open some eyes...
It is not about winning.....we know the real ending...
but standing for truth....protecting those weaker than us..or lost.
There are currently 319 signatures. This is not nearly enough to have any impact. Perhaps there are not enough people that believe that it is necessary that an open business meeting is important to the future of the church. If you feel that it is and have not already signed please do so. Don't forget to have every family member that also believes that this necessary sign as well.
SIGN HERE
Perhaps there are a large number that are not aware that they have the ability to have their voice heard. Please follow this link and send this petition to your family and friends.
In the Your name field enter:
Bellevue Friend
In the the E-Mail Address field enter:
BellevueFriend@yahoo.com
SEND IT TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS
Does anybody know the name of the parliamentarian that was at the business meeting?
charlie,
That person didn't say anything. You must have been seeing things!
NBBCOF,
Whoa! I thought I was seeing things!
Naw, oc. You saw nuthink! Nuthink!
Charlie,
You didn't see it too, right?
Well, I'm seeing things and talking to myself. I better get some sleep. Good night.
Charlie,
The parliamentarian's name is Barry McCarty. He is the pastor of Valley View Christian Church in Dallas, Texas. He has also served as parliamentarian for the SBC.
You may have read about him and his church during the time Harriet Myers was being considered for the Supreme Court. She was amember of his church. Under his leadership the church culture was transitioned from traditional to the "seeker friendly" PD model. This caused the church to split, HM went with the group that split.
chron,
As I recently heard someone say, "Isn't it ironic that Bellevue brought in a man who already split one church to help split this one?"
I thought that was a very shrewd observation from a very wise man!
Well, I got up this morning to find that my post had been deleted. I guess there was too much "truth" there for you to take or comprehend. Its amazing that you print just about anything that anti-Bellevue or anti-Steve Gaines but won't keep anything on here that questions you guys or your motives.
I guess the proof is in the pudding.
Brady: In case you missed this, this was in response to your post:
New BBC Open Forum said...
Unless and until "brady" or someone else can come up with a link or verifiable source for that information, I have deleted it. I'm not saying I don't believe it, because it sounds all too real given the attitudes of some pastors today, just that I don't trust the source.
All you have to do to repost is back it up. I don't think anyone is afraid of "too much "truth" there to take or comprehend." but only want it to be TRUTH not opinion or conjecture.
What kind of "proof" do you want? I have a buddy who sits in the class and I have seen his notes and the "conclusions" they have drawn about this blog.
I didn't say I agreed with them. I just said what they had said.
Brady said: "I didn't say I agreed with them. I just said what they had said."
Thanks for this clarification. I find it alarming that seminary students are making these conclusions.
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