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About Me
- New BBC Open Forum
- This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church and the SBC can come to comment and exchange ideas. Anonymous comments are welcome, but it is respectfully requested that instead of choosing the "Anonymous" option those who want to post comments without logging in select a unique screen name. This lets everyone tell the difference between one anon and another without revealing any personal information. Under the box where you compose your comment where it says "Choose an identity," just check "Name/URL" and type in the screen name of your choice. You can leave the URL field blank. It would be helpful if you'd use the same screen name for any subsequent comments. This makes reading and following discussions easier, helps avoid confusion, and doesn't result in one person being credited for writing something s/he didn't. Comments by posters whose only purpose is to disrupt (i.e. trolls) will be subject to deletion. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
496 comments:
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Will the mother go to the media?
the mother has posted on this blog before. I look forward to seeing her take on all of this.
reporter,
Someone has been messing with this story tonight. I don't know who it was. It wasn't ONLYAMEMBER, but SOMEONE was.
Someone was trying to cast doubt on the story.
That tends to lead to the " usual suspects"
onlyamember,
Someone with your screen name posted at 10:34 p.m. that s/he was "the one who started that rumor," hence the confusion. Then the person deleted it a few minutes later. Actually, I'm still confused!
I'm sorry to go in circles sickofthelies but I just don't understand several things.
1 - why would someone banned on this blog and humiliated (I'm assuming this) continue to come back. It's like they are asking for torture, it doesn't make sense. what do they have to gain? I cant think of anything. you know this kid, how does he think?
2 - also you mentioned that he is attracted to jr. high kids. could you expand on this? Should I be worried about my children?
SOTL,
I appreciate your dry humor. Ordained ministers roaming about the church buildings with handcuffs (maybe even firearms?) ... there's a pretty picture, huh? :) Gives a whole new meaning to "shooting the wolves"... heh heh
Concerned,
you've got mail. :)
onlyamember - I don't feel like I should have to prove anything. since you are talking to her on the phone, just ask if she posted here before.
if she is not a liar (and she doesn't seem like she would lie about this) then she will surely tell the truth.
Are security guards members?
some are. not all are.
OC: back at ya.
Guys, the person who is
ONLYAMEMBER is a credible person.
I do not understand how that screen name posted ' that he/she was the one that started the rumor"
Something very wierd here.
Surely this was caught by security cameras, wouldn't you think? That would be a great way to silence the doubt.
Also, Only: IMHO, the parents and girl have nothing to be embarrassed about.
Timing is everything, and God is the Master of timing (and time) ... church business meeting coming up ... I suspect all will be carefully orchestrated to make it difficult for anything to be brought up from the floor that wasn't pre-planned on the agenda ... perhaps that is to be expected in any church the size of BBC ... but on the off chance that an opportunity arises for open and frank discussion, we can trust that God not only has a reason for all that comes to pass, He also has a reason for when it comes to pass...
sickofthelies I have to go to bed in about 5-10 minutes. could you please address my 12:00 AM post before I head off?
thank you!!!
Junk, Excellent Post. God is in Control and still on His Throne. Thanks for the reminder.
concerned,
It's been erased by now!!!
You have to remember, they have a copy of the Bill Clinton playbook.
reporter,
answer to question #1:
I dont' know, you would have to ask that person yourself. \
Answer to question #2"
see answer to question #1
SOTL: *sigh* You are probably right. :(
Concerned,
Mail, ya got some...
concernedSBCer said...
Surely this was caught by security cameras, wouldn't you think? That would be a great way to silence the doubt.
junk99mail says...
Do you mean the security cameras controlled by the security personnel who most likely wouldn't want just anyone to see what they recorded? :)
It has been said that David Coombs will bring a new measure of accountability and openness and integrity to administration at BBC. I truly hope that is the case. (Yes, SOTL, I know you won't be holding your breath on that, but I can still hope!) If it is, a good start would be a strong, vocal, and unequivocal (without excuse-making) denoucement of strong arm tactics and foul-mouthed-ness (is that a word?) by security, and appropriate disciplinary action (security officers at the secular company where I work would most likely be fired if they cussed out someone).
Only,
Thanks for the phone call. Sorry about the confusion tonight.
junkmail
YOu are so right. Although I am not holding my breath about DC, I would rejoice with you if he were to denounce the tactics used by Barney Fife and co.
reporter,
go to bed. you need your sleep. take your ritalin.
The pastor scales a fence, nothing happens. The pastor harbors a pedophile, nothing happens. I mean, the man gets a standing ovation for harboring the pedophile!!! AND for scaling the fence!!!
Is it any wonder that the security guards feel that there is no worry about accountability at BBC?
SOTL,
Have you heard from my friends yet?
SOTL,
Pastor is a super hero.
Twists Scripture with no effort.
Harbors pedophiles without guilt.
Leaps small fences with a single bound....
junk99mail says...
Do you mean the security cameras controlled by the security personnel who most likely wouldn't want just anyone to see what they recorded? :)
Gosh, what was I thinking. Sometimes I feel so naive....I expect people to do the RIGHT thing.....
Junkmail,
Yes, I have heard from them. Got a very nice reply. I'm considering all options. Thank you so much for putting me in touch with them!!
OC,
You are a hoot!!!
onlyamember says:
Whatever happens, this child deserves and apology; as public as her humiliation
REPLY:
AMEN, sister!
offline, my pillow beckons me
Here is the URL to the famous sermon by RG Lee, "Payday Someday". If you've never heard it, I encourage you to take the time. It serves as an excellent reminder that God is not mocked, and can be trusted to bring His justice to all wrongs.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts
%20&%20Preaching/Audio
%20Sermons/Dr%20R%20G
%20Lee/payday.mp3
OC: You have the quote of the night! You are on a roll!
More mail your way.
Thanks, NASS. I appreciate your work to give us this forum. Sleep well!
Night all....
Here is another place where you can listen to "Payday Someday", and also read the text of the sermon:
http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/
sbvoices/rgleepayday.asp
AOG,
Want you to know that I find great joy in your success. I know, it is the Lord's doing. And I know that you want that to be known. But He does that kind of thing in the lives of obedient people. So congratulations, not only for what has happened to you today, but for the long walk with Him. Bless you friend. In Christ, OC.
Christ said, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."
Scofield says this is Christ's pre-authentication of the New Testament. So now we claim that we have that which is perfect and our assumption is that we are perfect.
Yet for now we see through a glass darkly. It is clear as mud.
Jesus himself said it will remain clear as mud if I sit here with you and tell you myself, you cannot bear what I have to say.
However when The Holy Spirit comes he will guide you into all truth.
Dr. Nelson Price denies the Holy Spirit the right to act freely in electing whom he chooses. We are all unworthy sinners, very close to eternal destruction, hanging by a thread over hell. Like fools we affirm God is Love and have the audacity to box him in to obligate Him to save.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God. Scofield believes this is the sin of unbelievers.
Hear these terrible words: "If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Believers insult the Spirit of Grace.
Why do they have the nerve to accuse Calvinist of neglect of evangelism? Edwards preached, "Sinners in the hands of an angry God" Now there is an evangelistic message! Calvinism has not changed, they are preaching, "Believers in the hands of an angry God." American Fundamentalism is taken up space.
Men are crying souls are dying why can't we just lead them to the cross?
Repost:
Iremember a dedicated Pastor saying “ If we don’t stand for something we will fall for anything. I believe that is what many at BBC have done. Many have not stood for God, the truth, and God’s church. They have fallen for a lie, half truth. We have sat back and watched one man come in and turn BBC upside down. He said he did not want to come here and now he is acting that way. Saying his sermons are shallow is a overstatement. He takes God’s word and beats and not lead. He did Dr. Whitmire worse than anyone I have ever known. He should have been present at the budget meeting on Sunday 11, especially with all the things that are going on in the church. They said offerings are up even though attendance is down 11%. That is very hard to believe. Most of the other leaders are no help. They act like they have no idea what is going on. Sunday’s attendance was so light it was frightening. What are we going to do? Stand. Stand for God. Stand for the truth. Stand for Bellevue. Stand.
SOTL said:
When will the security guards be ordained as ministers?
Amy says: Bwah-ha, ha!
You owe me a new keyboard!That comment made me spew my morning diet coke all over my keyboard!
Pastor John Macarthur answers questions as to " Christians " losing Salvation.
Question
I was wondering if you could just explain a verse. In Hebrews chapter 10, verse 26, it says, “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.” Could you briefly explain that?
Answer
Yes, what it’s talking about is a non-Christian, a person who is intellectually convinced that the Gospel is true. It’s the same as chapter 6, the same as chapter 4, where you have a person who is intellectually convinced in their mind. They’ve seen all the truth; they know that it’s true. And if they have the knowledge of the truth, and willfully trample underfoot the Son of God—that’s what it says in that verse—and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing, they're doomed. In other words, it’s talking about one who rejects against full knowledge; it’s not talking about a Christian. That’s it.
Amy,
OOPS
:)
Amy: haven't you learned by now to NEVER read the blog with a drink in hand???? You never know with this crowd........
I'll try again...
Concerned,
Sadly, I learn most of my lessons the hard way. I didn't mention that some of my coke went through my nose, and it burned! I am not adding this to the damages because I am not so stooped up now. ;)
This diet coke incident has also affected my spelling.
My last post should read "stopped up" not "stooped up"
Amy: There's no great loss without some gain, they always say!
Okay, guys, in trying to come to terms with what happened Sunday night, I still have several questions......
1) Why was this particular singled out when Greg and Phil welcomed her back?
2)Why was an attempt to get her Mom not made?
3)Why would a church bodily throw someone out that was attending a service....and call the police on her?
4) If those in charge want to "damage control" why wasn't an attempt made immediatly, in private, to the family?
I gotta be honest, if someone did that to one of my daughters.....well, does the term "Mama Bear" mean anything to you?
Just for the record, I admire her parents for their restraint and their effort to address this per Matt. 18
Amy: apparently I am having spelling issues this am too...must have been the late night last night! ;)
Sorry! I will spell check in the future!
concerned,
Ok, I am being told that the security detail was a private outfit that also protected Dr. R. and was kept on for SG.
Soooo...here we have a situation where there is a 15 y/o girl, worshipping with her mother, and she is hauled out like a common criminal.
Contrast that to the treatment the REAL criminal, PW, received.
Should we assume that Steve Gaines deserves more protection from a 15 y/o girlwho is quietly worshipping with her mother than the children of the church deserved from PW?
Again, I ask,
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?
SOTL,
I think it must be a Picaso.
What about that kid that was caught with a loaded gun and knives on the church grounds.
It is my understanding that HE was not even banned.
I guess it's easier to pick on women and children.
Hey, I like Picasso! How about Marcel Duchamp instead? (He put his name on a male bathroom fixture (sorry, didn't want to use the real term) and called it art.)
But you are right, there is something horribly wrong with this picture.
sickofthelies, if she was worshiping with her mother, don't you think her mom would have seen security take her?
Also, it is my understand that the sister saw the whole thing that happened...couldn't her sister do something about it or at least go get their mom?
I feel like you are not being fully truthful here.
It really doesn't matter if she was sitting with her Mother or not, what the security did was wrong. Things like this is really making people feel uncomfortable going to BBC. Those who are blind need to open their eyes.
reporter
LOL
I know who you are.
truth rules said...
Plus I've never saw any surveillance cameras in the church auditorium. I will be looking Sunday for them.
truth, look at the ceiling over the "messiah" and "redeemer" banners in the balcony.
I kinda have to side with reporter on this one. We are not getting the full story. First it was said she was with her mother, then the mother wasn't aware. Two conflicting statements. The someone said the girl was being very polite and cooperating, later someone said it took 7 men to get her. It sounds conflicting if one is cooperating but then why a number of men to restrain. SOTl told us last night that the security use some foul language in speaking with the young lady. That doesn't sound like what anyone would do in a church building if the situation was of one dealing with a sweet girl.
I don't know what happened but on one hand it appears that brute force was used to restrain an innocent young lady. But it just doesn't pass the smell test with me. There has got to be more. Doesn't anyone know someone that they could call for a accurate account? And finally if that had been my little girl, then 7 security guys couln't stop this momma bear!
finance guy, thanks for the locations. I knew that we had cameras on the outside and hallways but didn't know that we had them in the sanctuary. I'll be looking for those.
I have started looking for those cameras everywhere I go after seeing a program on TV talking about how many times a day we are in front of a camera. Can we say Big Brother; 1984 George Orwell was just a little late.
I know one of the security that works on the pastor's detail and I hope to ask him about what happened. I don't know him well enough to just call out of the blue so to speak.
Only,
This story is nothing short of horrifying. Concerned mentioned how scary it would be to a 15 yr old; this kind of treatment would terrify anyone; no matter how young or old you are.
What caused these men to come to this girl in the first place?
Did they just come to her seat and demand she come with them, and tell others around her NOT to come??!! Why did no one else come to this girl's defense?
You said she called her sister, was she in the service or elsewhere?
How long did this ordeal go on and why and at what point were the police called? Why did security or the police not get the girls parents. The big question??? as others have mentioned why did they not put the mother's or father's name on the monitor and ask her/him to come to the lobby or outside?? Security certainly knows the procedure on this.
This is just another of the continuing saga of "mistakes" at our new BBC!!
This is Wednesday and only 1 person from BBC has called to apologize to this family, is that person by chance David Coombs or someone else??
SOTL,
Please email me.
Thanks
sheeplessatbbc said...
"This is just another of the continuing saga of "mistakes" at our new BBC!!"
I believe the Lord has removed our hedge of protection some time ago. We will continue to have these appalling acts until the sin is removed from the pulpit.
There is a lack of consistency here. I know personally of a situation during the tree several years ago where a man was following the jr. high girls and generally giving everyone the creeps. He was asked to leave the premises and over the next several months still displayed actions that concerned many. However, a young girl hangs around with the wrong crowd; sees the error of her ways, repents, goes with her parents and talks to youth leadership and is in church during a worship service, and she is treated like this? What is the deal? What did they think a 15 year old was going to do in the middle of worship service? And if all the "kids" were causing problems (which ALL reports say they were not) why was she singled out?
Mom 4,
I totally agree with you.
I hope "Only" will continue with her reports of the physical and emotional abuse of this 15 year old child and keep this blog updated.
I can only imagine how terrified she was. Even if someone had been banned, WHICH SHE WAS NOT, that is no way for anyone to have been treated.
Steve Gaines lets a pedophile roam the halls of BBC for 6 months after the pedophile confesses to Steve Gaines, and a 15 yr old girl is escorted out of worship service and handcuffed for no reason!!
The more information released on this most recent incident, the fewer excuses people will have for defending the current "Dictatorship" of BBC.
Only,
If you are needing a police report to back up and collabrate the facts, even though a report was not taken, dispatch would have a record of the officers sent and a statement could be required of these officers if needed.
DAVID COOMBS,
ARE YOU LISTENING???
Jesus said, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."
We have the idea that we can go to Denver, New Orleans, Atlanta or Memphis and get a PHD in theology and we'll know what we need to know.
Most of our churches require it of their pastors. The laity assume that they have to be mentored or discipled by another disciple. Christ wants us to be his disciples. But Christ is saying if He were still in Jerusalem you still would not understand.
Nevertheless it is expedient for you that I go away.
Jacob didn't really seem to understand and so acknowledged that himself before Pharoah. Moses missed the understanding of it. David, a man after God's own heart missed the understanding of it. Men who were so close still failed to understand it. How could we expect in our own efforts to grasp the truths of the kingdom. Not only can we not understand we could not handle the truth in the flesh. It would consume us so quickly.
We say and sing its all about Christ. Christ tells us its about the Holy Spirit.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shew (give -A.V.) it unto you.
This is not a giving of gnostic keys to knowledge but a clear understanding of the Word. This understanding will transcend traditions and cultures. It will be verified and tested by the Word. The Holy Spirit will not add nor take away from it. That is something that man will inevitably do without the help of the Spirit. The comming of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost required either a supernatural work in the hearers or a supernatural work of the speakers. That supernatural necessity has not left us today. The scriptures need an interpretation and the individual is given that personally by the Spirit. David lacked that trust for his son, Solomon, believing that he was too weak and immature to do the building of the temple. So David like many bosses we know macro managed everthing for Solomon. Don't you know that embrassed Solomon. In the same way our function in the body of Christ requires a supernatural endowment of agape. If David didn't have that kind of love for his own son how would we ever expect to have it singing, "come by here Lord" while holding hands.
Bellevue needs the Holy Spirit.
FYI:
Man of God is referenced twice in the ESV NT in Timothy. It is a 'Hebrew' term that refers to a 'messenger of God'.
Just for grins, here are a few descripters Paul used to describe himself throughout the Pauline letters:
Fool for Christ
Bondservant
Apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of the Father
A servant of Jesus Christ
Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father,
Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus
MOM4 said...
DAVID COOMBS,
ARE YOU LISTENING???
3:40 PM, March 14, 2007
Guess not...
" Many writers on this blog are saying everything Rick Warren has done is unBiblical. Now everyone on this blog seems to have gone more to the side of legalism rather than grace."
It is confusing, isn't it. What really freaked me out what seeing just how legalistic the teachings of Warren are especially in the area of signing covenants and doing works. There sure is not any Grace for someone who disagrees with doctrine or methods. But plenty of Grace for those who follow blindly the only problem is that it is man made grace.
By the way, 8-10 years ago, very few Baptist pastors questioned PDL or PDC. But that is changing and I think we are seeing a very small 'awakening'.
It takes 7 men to 'subdue' a 15 year-old-girl? Hmmm....What kind of 'men' are these? And what threat was this 15 year-old-girl perpetrating? Give me a break, if you know what I mean.
And, reporter,
Take your Ritalin.
A confessed pedophile walks the halls, a 15 year old girl is handcuffed. Does anyone study and utilize LOGIC anymore?????
Concerned,
I echo the 'mama bear' statement but substitute 'papa bear'. GRRRRRRRR......
lin...excellent points. I always knew PDL didn't sound right (and being part of a church split 10 years ago after our pastor visited Saddleback didn't help)and I could never understand the mad jump on the bandwagon. It is so surface. I had a conversation yesterday with someone who thought PDL was great because it was all about "relationships." Nothing wrong with that, is there? No, until you peel off the top layer and look at what it is really saying. I pray the SBC wakes up and that God will raise up a leader to help them get back on the narrow path of Truth.
OC: EXACTLY. Grrrrrrr......
EZ,
You were close. It is spelled hermeneutics. No PhD or MBA for me, but I understand..
concernedsbcer said, "and being part of a church split 10 years ago after our pastor visited Saddleback"
Oh surely not! ROFL!
I, too, pray for the Southern Baptist Convention to turn around!But I am seriously contemplating pulling out of it sooner than later. Only thing is...where would I go? Nothing out there is purpose driven proof, now is it? Except for house churches.
By the way, for those of you who might remember our discussion the other night about George Barna, who started the concept of marketing in our churches, having gone to a house church himself. It is true...I emailed their camp and got a reply. He attends a house church himself these days. Ain't that a hoot!
ima,
Don't do anything rash. All is not lost yet. The resistance ground swell is growing.
charlie fox said...
"ima, Don't do anything rash. All is not lost yet. The resistance ground swell is growing."
You really think so Charlie?
imaresistor said...
You really think so Charlie?
Reply:
I do indeed!!!! I have ABSOLUTE FAITH & TRUST that our GOD takes care of his TRUE children. However, HE never said that it would always be easy.
Whats next for Gaines? Calling out the SWAT team when someone says Amen during his sermon?
Right Charlie!
I am just so disgruntled with the SBC. What must this organization of people be thinking!
You know what? God is in control, not us. Everything will work out as God directs. You can worry all you want, won't change God's plans. So, take God seriously, and take yourselves less. As the punks would say, "WORD UP'".
Reguardless of whether or not she dropped the four letter bombs or not, it didn't call for the Moonbat Mafia to bring in the Swat Team. And given the Moonbat Mafia's history of lies and deceipt, I have no doubt this did happen and my prayers are for the girl and the family.
I recommend we move our tithes from Bellevue and direct them to Mid America, a place where integrity is still taught and practiced.
Ima: You've got mail.
Concerned,
Good morning.
[quote] concernedSBCer said...
lin...excellent points. I always knew PDL didn't sound right (and being part of a church split 10 years ago after our pastor visited Saddleback didn't help)and I could never understand the mad jump on the bandwagon. It is so surface. I had a conversation yesterday with someone who thought PDL was great because it was all about "relationships." Nothing wrong with that, is there? No, until you peel off the top layer and look at what it is really saying. I pray the SBC wakes up and that God will raise up a leader to help them get back on the narrow path of Truth. [/quote]
Hmm... that wouldn't have been um... a church that is now the "Life Church" at Schilling Farms, would it? If so, I was right there with ya...
For the record... I happen to support Bro. Gaines... I hope that I won't be held in contempt here...
springerspaniel said,
For the record... I happen to support Bro. Gaines... I hope that I won't be held in contempt here...
Reply: Not if you don't act like him.
WE WERE THERE!
Please excuse this long writing, as I have spent hours, no, days reading about the last year of our beloved Bellevue. This is my first input to this thread but I have been no stranger to many posts, blogs, audio clips, news articles, etc., since I heard of the troubles at BBC two months ago. For a public blog most of the input has been most honorable and respectful. My wife and I were members of BBC from 1980 to 1995 when we moved back to Nashville. I remember the first sermon I heard by Dr. Rogers in early 1980 on TV while we were trying to decide on a church home. I had told my wife I would not drive 12 miles to church like we had been doing before moving to Memphis, but the Lord has a since of humor. After hearing Dr. Rogers we could not wait to find BBC and guess what? It was exactly 12 miles from our new home to BBC down town Memphis. We joined a Sunday school that had only 10 or 12 people attending each Sunday and shortly afterward we got a new teacher who was attending Mid America Seminary. In a few short months we had outgrown our SS class and moved to a larger room to better hold over 100 now attending. When it did not stop growing we were told the class would be split and another teacher would take half of the class. We stood together and refused to split so an 8AM class was started and our teacher, Ken Stevens, taught the 8AM and the 9:30AM class. The whole class got together for fellowship once a month at some ones home. What a great time that was!
We were there when Dr. Rogers and a team came back from Florida and said that they had not found a solution to our parking problem at the facility downtown but that they wanted to explore the idea( no dream, just an idea) that had come to Dr. Rogers while in Florida about looking for a new church site and possibly moving.
We were there when the property was found. We were there when the church voted to move and over 4000 of us crowed into a 3500 seating capacity building and the press could only find 8 people who voted against the move. We were there when we were asked to give sacrificially to pay for the land so that construction could begin. We were there when the new facility was opened and attended the first service in the new building. We were there four months later when 7500 seats were not enough and another morning service had to be added. We were there when Dr. Tommy Lane retired and Jim Whitmire became the music director after waiting patiently for Dr. Lane to retire. We were there when BBC was a great testimony to the world and will be again if Gods people will stand for the truth and nothing but the truth.
When we moved back to Nashville in 1995 we visited the church where we had been members of many years before. One of our dear friends was getting married in the church and my wife was playing and singing in the wedding. Little did we know that while the wedding was taking place in the sanctuary that a meeting called by the deacons was taking place in another part of the church. The pastor had been caught in adultery. He was fired even though he was loved by most of the congregation and known as a very caring pastor. It took a long time for the church to heal and some members left. My wife and I rejoined this church, even while they were searching for a new pastor, and served on many committees. Some time later I was chairman of the personnel committee and got a call from the new pastor telling me that the custodian, also a member of the church, had been accused of child abuse involving two church teenagers. I did not wait 6 months, six days or six hours. It took me about 30 seconds to call the department of children’s services and ask them what my legal obligation was. They told me I needed no proof, just a suspicion that a child had been molested and I was required to notify DCS. I called an emergency meeting of the personnel committee including the pastor and the accused that night. He admitted to giving two boys porn videos and talking about explicit sex with them. He saw nothing wrong with what he had done. I explained to him the requirement we had to notify DCS and that we would do that after the meeting. We were authorized by the church bylaws to suspend him, but firing would take approval of the active deacon council. The next night one of the committee members and I met with the abuser and I gave him a letter of resignation and asked him to sign it. He signed. We met with him and his wife and he confessed to her what he had done. We then arranged for him to get professional counseling and paid for the first five sessions. He agreed to allow for feedback from the councilor to the pastor and committee as to his progress. Even though he did not think he really had a problem the councilors report showed that he needed a lot of help. We also found out that this was not the first time. Without this report some of the committee members including the pastor would have considered letting him have his job back after counseling, but two of us had no intention of hiring him back and putting children at risk.
Thank you for your time and I hope all of you know that satan lurks among the saved and unsaved just watching for the opportunity to cause us to stumble. Continue to be respectful but do not hesitate to condemn sin whether it be from a brother, sister, deacon, or pastor.
Your brother in Christ
Del
There have been comments in some of the associated blogs that Baptists Churches are not democratically ruled. This is a lack of historical knowledge. From the first established Baptist churches in America they were congregationally ruled. It seems only since we have grown to mega size that we have let go of our heritage. Even our own American government was influenced by Baptist church business meetings. See this article about the influence a Baptist church had on Thomas Jefferson when he was framing America.
http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0561.htm
I grew up in a small independent Baptist church and they were ruled by the congregation. Since then I have moved several times due to my job and have been a member of seven other Southern Baptist churches, all had monthly business meetings where the church voted on the maintenance of the church including approval of all committees and committee job descriptions.
I have served on three constitution and bylaws committees. My first was in 1978, the second 2003, and currently 2007. All have been written to make sure the members rule the church. The first one in 1978 was for a Southern Baptist church that had never had a C & B so we started from scratch. The only thing required to incorporate was a charter so for over eighty years the church had self governed itself by having the congregation vote on business matters. The current pastor did not want a C & B even then but some strong members and a well educated associate pastor led the church to agree that it was needed. Those bylaws have guided the church through some rough times and kept small outspoken groups from taking control. It is not unusual for a Baptist church not to have a C & B since for centuries they have followed a tradition of monthly business meetings with the members voting and bringing motions to the floor. Bellevue needs a Constitution and Bylaws Committee to rewrite the current one. When I read the 1929 copy I could not believe my eyes. They were apparently quickly written so that the church could incorporate
in 1929 and never really used. But the traditional monthly business meetings were held for years and the congregation approved.
A friend asked me to check on First Baptist Church Daytona Beach Fl and find out what is happening there. Its seems Rick Warrens style was rejected there also.
See http://www.wdavidphillips.com/article/fbc-daytona-beach-struggles-after-welch
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