Thursday, February 15, 2007

New Administrative Pastor's Page

From the new page on Bellevue's website:

"Our new Administrative Pastor’s webpage will serve to communicate progress and provide new information on church administration issues. Long term, this page will evolve into a location where church members can view policies, procedures, current financial information, and statistics about church activities and church life. In the future, we hope to incorporate a way for members to submit questions and receive answers online.

"We desire to be open and transparent in every aspect of church life. It’s our prayer that this webpage will provide a better means of communication between church administration and members."


So far the only two items on that page are letters from former corporate-world-chief-financial-officer-soon-to-be-ordained-minister David Coombs are two letters which are here and here.

Now, read the Tennessee code and letters from Bellevue members requesting information from church leadership as permitted by Tennessee code here and judge for yourself.

595 comments:

1 – 200 of 595   Newer›   Newest»
Derrick Calcote said...

On behalf of myself and many, many members of Bellevue who did not want their personal information released to this organization, I thank Mr. Coombs and the Board of Directors for this decision.

Just My Opinion said...

My opinion is what David Coombs states in his letter is a factual reality of what the laws are in the state of Tennessee. The problem all us non-lawyers have is that we want to be selective in law as we are in Scripture. And we know the problems with being selective in Scripture can bring about.

I have known David for a number of years and without question testify as to the integrity of this gentleman. May I suggest to those who will begin to toss stones on the blog to first pick up the phone and call David. I think you will be surprised in his honesty and desire for our church to be about it's primary mission.

My final statement is that Josh Manning stated purpose for his career path is to effect change from outside. David is offering one the opportunity to effect change from within.

Derrick Calcote said...

It was also pleasing to see Mr. Coombs express his desire and the desire for others for reconciliation.

Also the fact that he said that they are open to meetings with this group is very gracious. It is a true example of Christ's admonition to "turn the other cheek" in light of the surreptitious recording of a recent meeting he had with a member of this group.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Sorry about the broken links. They're fixed now.

Question for you, Derrick and others. What exactly did you think Mr. Manning and the others wanted the information for? Do you really think the members of that organization have the money or the desire to flood your mailboxes (physical or in cyberspace) with junk mail or to bombard you with phone calls? From what I understand they simply wanted a way to contact the membership one time regarding an open meeting, a meeting the church has steadfastly refused to allow at the church.

It seems Mr. Coombs had no qualms about posting the names and addresses of the letter writers but is unwilling to provide them with the membership list they requested. Don't you think this is a double standard?

As for the "surreptitious" recording of the conversation between Mr. Manning and Mr. Coombs, no law was broken. You might want to be careful about any conversations you have inside any of the church offices because rumor has it they can record the goings on inside any office at any time without the occupants of said offices knowing. I guess that's okay though. No double standard there.

Esther said...

"I have known David for a number of years and without question testify as to the integrity of this gentleman."

That statement only makes me question your integrity. That you could blindly say this after all his actions to date says quite a bit about your personal standards for intergrity. If you think that is mean, so be it.

This man has NOT followed scriptural commands and precepts. If he had, he would have stepped down by now and refused to be a part of this ignoring of 1 Corinthians 5, Titus and Timothy. I do not know what you use to measure standards of integrity...could it be worldly success?

Esther said...

"It was also pleasing to see Mr. Coombs express his desire and the desire for others for reconciliation. "

I am sure that is quite possible if you are into blindly following these 'men' instead of Christ and asking no questions they do not like. Nor, expecting pedophile ministers to be fired right away.

Anyone who disagrees is 'divisive' as noted by his use of the word 'disharmony' to promote false unity instead of the Unity of the Word which demands Truth and Transparancy from Shepherds.

docbellevue said...

When Bellevue filed its corporate charter it availed itself of all legal protections afforded corporations. The downside is the corporation must obey Tennessee corporate law. Thankfully, David Coombs opinion and interpretation of that law is not determinative. It seems a judge will have to educate him on the statute he once claimed to be "very well-versed" on.

The continued lack of openness is astounding, but we should not be surprised. Deacons also find it difficult to get information. Why was there no financial or attendance report at last Sunday's deacon's meeting? No report in January either.

Piglet said...

Reposted from previous thread:

Custos,

I know you keep up with the blog as much as you can. If you are out there, could you please respond to the reasons Coombs gave for denying documents?

The letter is now on Bellevue's website.

How can they say this is not in "good faith" when the law was made,I presume, so members could "check" on what is going on behind closed doors? It could only benefit them if all is well, could it not?

Do they already know that the findings would cause "more disharmony" because of what is there?

Piglet said...

docbellevue

Excellent points!

Tim said...

The request clearly states:

"so that we, as members of Bellevue Baptist Church, may communicate in an open, civil, and transparent manner with our fellow members regarding recent matters in the Church’s life."

The Request


The response is clearly misleading:

"You are apparently operating under the premise that a member of Bellevue for any or no reason has the right to obtain all records for the Church."

The Response


From the investigative report:

"Bellevue Baptist Church initiated the current investigation, instructing the team to “leave no stone unturned” to reach the truth and to conduct the investigation in an independent, unbiased manner. Toward that end, outside counsel and an outside Human Resources consultant were retained, and the Investigative Team was created. David Coombs, who was asked to lead the team."


Questions:
Is this the same gentleman that reported information incorrectly to David Brown at the beginning of this investigation?

Is this the same gentleman that sifted thru pebbles while ignoring boulders?

Is this the same gentleman that treated a dear woman cruelly who told him that, “Pedophilia thrives in secrecy?

Is this the same gentleman that treated Josh Manning rudely?

Is this the same gentleman that told Josh Manning that he did not care what the Tennessee law said?

Correct me if I am mistaken, but is this the same gentleman that the church is planning to ordain to the ministry on February 25?

Surely this could not be the same gentleman.

faithnhope said...

My hope through all of this has been only for reconciliation. I'm not on a 'side', because I know that God is not on one. Our feeble attempts at 'integrity' and 'truth' fall so short of His perfection that we'll all enjoy a good laugh in eternity, I'm sure.

I have to echo Mr. Calcote's thank you to Mr. Coombs for his decision not to release the addresses of the membership. Both me and Hope have been forced to join another church so that our names will no longer appear on the Bellevue rolls when they are finally divulged. God bless Mr. Coombs for giving us enough time to do that.

I unwisely shared something very personal about my past on this blog. My former husband tried to kill me once, and although he hasn't been seen in almost 10 years I live with the fear that he'll try again if he finds out where I am and the name I now use. I'm afraid I shared just enough for him to add it up, and should he have access to my address I don't know what I'll do.

Hope has been harrassed by reporters ever since 9/11, and she doesn't want her address comprimised any more than I do.

So tell me, who is not following scriptural commands? Who is it that is looking out for the widows in the church?

It's not about me, but who is looking out for my best interests?

Faith Jackson

sheeplessatbbc said...

7:23 pm poster, I'm not mentioning your name for security reasons.

If you are concerned about being found, Do you think it wise to again mention your unfortunate circumstances and the full name you are now using at the bottom of your post. Just thinking you might want to delete this post or if you can't you can certainly ask NASS to do it for you. (I would have emailed you, but you don't have one listed on your profile)

Also, there are a lot easier ways to find out information on people you are looking for than a church membership directory. Sorry to see you leave BBC.

Piglet said...

Faith said

My hope through all of this has been only for reconciliation. I'm not on a 'side', because I know that God is not on one. Our feeble attempts at 'integrity' and 'truth' fall so short of His perfection that we'll all enjoy a good laugh in eternity, I'm sure.

Piglet says:

I don't think anything about this is funny to God.

Bellevue used to be a beacon of light to the world. Now she is being torn asunder by and arrogant pastor and leaders who disobey scripture, bylaws, and the law of the land because , according to Coombs' letter, they SEE FIT.

I am sorry you gave too much information on this blog and feel you have to change churches but noone made that choice for you.

The membership roll is necessary to contact the members of the church for a meeting that could settle these issues. Anyone could have called the church and gotten your information all along (I've called and gotten addresses and phone numbers). That's why this is a LAW. If corrupt leaders deny surrendering the roll and disobey the law for their own reasons then what is to protect members from being taken advantage of?

Faith said:

So tell me, who is not following scriptural commands? Who is it that is looking out for the widows in the church?

Piglet says:

I have a widow friend who does not want her tithe and benevolence money to support pro-abotion and pro-homosexual groups. She hopes her leaders obey the law. She wants answers to questions the Communications Committee never answered. She wants to know her child will not be preyed upon by pedophiles employed by the church.

She feels intimidated because she has no husband and wants someone like IDC to pursue this for her.

BBC members are being denied the tools they are entitled to by the LAW in order to pursue the issue of OPENNESS and TRANSPARENCY.

The recent "investigative report" issued WITHOUT testimony from the central witness is just an example of why openness and transparency have to happen! Facts are manufactured and manipulated in the current administration.

2006Huldah said...

Faithnhope said,

"I have to echo Mr. Calcote's thank you to Mr. Coombs for his decision not to release the addresses of the membership..."
****

Certainly, we can all understand and empathize with you and others who share your preference for various reasons. However, there should be a better way where those who would like to be listed can be shown. Most people have their numbers and addresses in phone books. To me, the thought of anybody at Bellevue having my name and/or address arouses no feelings of fear or dread. I was thinking that if the membership was offered an "opt out" form-- like the ones that corporations, insurance companies, etc. send us frequently--the church itself could compile a "Member Approved" list. I think they should have done this a long time ago so that members could contact each other more easily. Why should we fear each other? This would not be sold or shared with the public. That could even be a stipulation on the consent form. IF (and that's a big IF) they wanted to do so. IMO

Dee

ilovebbc said...

Esther, if I remember correctly, you're not a Bellevue member are you?

Esther said...

"It's not about me, but who is looking out for my best interests?"

You mean eternity wise? Only Christ.

Following men...especially men who do not follow the scripture will not take you near the narrow gate.

Truth or Lie? said...

David Coombs, you are taking part of something that will lead BBC into more trouble.
The problem with you David is that there is no correct way to justify wrong.
You have to be aware of the very large coverup that if allowed to continue will ruin your reputation and the reputation of Bellevue.
Bellevue Baptist Church is not the Catholic Church. I'm not sure what your background growing up was but Southern Baptist don't believe in secrecy.
You may have run a mulibillion dollar PRIVATE company where you could do anything you wanted but the Church is not a PRIVATE company.
When your company sold out recently, your shares in the company may have sold for $500,000 per share, but that will not allow you to have your way in the church.
God sees everything and He will continue to expose the wickedness that is now getting deeper rooted within Bellevue Baptist Church.
Do you really beleive that the church membership does not have the right to know how each dollar is spent inside the church?

Directors: John Addison, Jeff Arnold, Bruce Brooke, Chuck Fullerton, Tom McCormick, and Harold Shipman should be ashamed if you did in fact authorize David Coombs to sign his letter on your behalf. In the eyes of God, you are participating in something that is wrong. Secrecy in the church is wrong and you are now a part of the wrongdoing.
David, it's ashame you have to be notified of a recording so you can make sure you tell the truth. Remember that God records everything.

2006Huldah said...

To ilovebbc--

Esther is an honorary member.

Dee

Esther said...

"Esther, if I remember correctly, you're not a Bellevue member are you? "

Just a member of the Body of Christ. How about you?

Truth or Lie? said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
2006Huldah said...

NASS--Please excuse my following short "story". It is not a "joke".
*****

There was a nice, little, old lady that went to a big, new church. She was SO nice that everybody began to notice that she NEVER said anything bad about anybody. One day, a sharp, young fellow had a bright idea. He said, "Ms. Smith, what about the devil? I'll bet you can't find anything nice to say about the devil!" She paused for a moment, looked up at the young man, and said, "Well, he sure stays busy all the time."

Dee

Is your light bulb coming on?

New BBC Open Forum said...

What's wrong with having a church directory online? If the problem is with it being obsolete before it's printed, then why print it in the first place? Put it on Bellevue's website, make it password protected for members only, and have someone update it weekly. How difficult could that be? And as "huldah" said, permit people to "opt out" of having their information listed.

I've never been a member of a Baptist church that didn't have a member directory. Sure Bellevue's a lot bigger than most churches, and a printed directory would be large, expensive to print, and soon in major need of updating, but this isn't rocket science! It can be done. If they really want to make it useful, make it an online pictorial directory. What better way to help people in such a large congregation get to know each other? And an added bonus would be that the church would then be complying with the law.

ilovebbc said...

Esther, I've been a member of Bellevue and the Body of Christ for almost 40 years. There was no intent to my question. It's just hard to keep up with everyone posting here.

2006Huldah said...

NASS--Can we have it where we can choose to 'opt out' on the picture part? Or, better yet, do you think I could get away with substituting my pretty little niece's picture? I might REALLY like that. (Sorry, folks, if you can't ever seem to find me roaming the halls of Bellevue lookin' that good. :)

Dee

Finance Guy said...

derrick,
Two questions.
1) Have you ever gone to another church besides BBC? It's very common for churches to have directories that have names, birthdays, addresses, work and home numbers. This group wanted this information to communicate with the membership. Perhaps the church would be amendable to handing the dissemination of the mailings. This would address your privacy concerns, and allow them their rights under state law to communicate with the membership.

2) Do you really think DC means what he said about honestly addressing their concerns? Or does he just want people like you to believe that he is? I think the entire farce of the Communication Committee meetings let them know how serious DC and the other elders-that-we-don't-have take their concerns.

I don't. I think he can't wait until they go away and quit shining the flashlight of accountability on the workings of Bellevue.

The "trust bank" between the pulpit and the pew has been used up, and there will have be real, concrete steps taken by DC, the pastor and others before it's restored. If you can't understand that, I"m sorry.
-FG, who unfortunately, due to his dealings in the business world, knows what's going on all to well.

JU said...

Did anyone else take umbrage with this line in DC's letter?

"Consistent with the foregoing, we respectfully suggest that those members who disagree with certain decisions made by those duly appointed by the entire congregation are entitled to strive to move into positions of influence and leadership by convincing the congregation of their worth and entitlement to such positions"

I'm a member of the congregation. I never duly appointed DC, SG, MD et al to any position in the church. In fact, I do hereby terminate DC, SG, MD et al as a BBC staff members.... Did that have any effect? No? Well then it's clearly evident that it's not encumbant upon a person to convince the entire congregation of anything. Perhaps it's just necessary to convince a very small group of "elders" who actually control the church?

en·ti·tle Pronunciation (n-ttl)
tr.v. en·ti·tled, en·ti·tling, en·ti·tles
1. To give a name or title to.
2. To furnish with a right or claim to something:

Far to much use of the word Entitled in DC's letter. Do he and the other administration now lay claim to BBC because he's a staff member? Only by the grace of God should a member be elevated to any position in the church. Would you need the congregation's vote then? How much influence must you be able to peddle to enter into that leadership position that you so flippantly offer as a remedy.

Esther said...

"There was no intent to my question."

Strange question to ask with no intent. My loyalty is to Christ alone. I worship in a local Body with other believers. However, when in India, I worship with the Body. When in Afghanistan, I worship and fellowship with the Body. When in NYC, I know were the true Body worships.

The real Church, The true Body is united in love, and the truth of scripture. You just have to look hard to find them here.

I learned the hard way years ago not to follow mere men. I also learned from scripture that all true believers are 'annointed'.

The church is NOT a building. In India, they must meet in homes or tents. In Afghanistan, they must secretly meet in 'homes' that we would call bombed out rubble. They dare not sing too loud.

We are so rich with our fancy buildings and high paid pastors. Daniel Nehru was ambused and killed on his way home from meeting with the Body 2 years ago. He had been warned by authorities to quit preaching in homes but he just could not. The believers there 'kiss' their bibles and wrap them in cloths because they are so valuable.

Wakaill Arjoamdi hid his conversion from his wife for 2 years for fear of her telling his community and being beheaded. He was converted through the preaching of the Word by missionaires in Pakistan during the Taliban regime. He kept it a secret from everyone. His wife caught him reading scripture one night and asked him to read it to her. He did and she was convicted of her sin and converted. He read her the book of John. They travel many miles on foot to meet with believers when they can. She carries the baby and he carries the 4 year old. (There are no street lights there)

That is the Body I am a part of.

We are so rich. So arrogant. So ignorant. We do not care about truth. God is going to spew us out.

Truth or Lie? said...

David Coombs said:
"I can tell you Bellevue is
operated with the highest degree of integrity. But there’s more we can do."

You don't even beleive BBC is operated with the highest degree of integrity yourself or you wouldn't say "but" there's more we can do. The word highest means you can't go higher. Your own words prove what you know to be a lie.

The fact you beleive nobody has a right to know what is being spent doesn't sound like integrity to me.

The fact that a known child molester was allowed to remain on staff until the church body found out and demanded he be ousted doesn't sound like integrity to me.

The fact that $25,000 was sent by our church to a church in town that embraces homosexuality and abortion without even praying over it (Harry Smith's admission)doesn't sound like integrity to me. According to the church that burned, they were fully insured.

The fact that our lay leaders in charge of the finances knew of financial indiscretions by our pastor and refused to address the problem until news of it leaked out doesn't sound like integrity to me.

The fact that you have to be told you are being recorded so you can truthspeak doesn't sound like integrity to me.

Looking For Answers said...

Has anyone seen the minutes Pastor Coombs sent to Josh Manning?

socwork said...

Too much damage has been done; too much trust has been broken...

This is to promote open communication? Then were is the avenue for members to communicate with DC? I see that he can post his letters there, but I don't see where he can be communicated with. Did anyone else see this and I just missed it?

Truth or Lie? said...

David Coombs said:
" We have an
unprecedented opportunity to create a new level of communication with you and every
church member with regard to Bellevue’s inner workings"

What you are trying to say David is "we have the keys to the safe, the finance office, the files with all of the secrets. We also have our elite group in high places currently in, past, or coming on again over and over.
Wayne Vander Steeg Chairman of the Personnel Committee, Finance Committee, Missions Committee
(10+years)Steve Tucker Chairman of the Missions Committee, Finance Committee, Pastor Search Committee
Chuck Taylor Past Chairman of the Deacons, Finance Committee, Long Range Planning Committee, Chairman Pastor Search Committee
Harry Smith Chairman Communication Committee, Finance Committee, Long Range Planning Committee, Missions Committee, Pastor Search Committee
Dave Perdue Chairman of the Media Committee, Finance Committee, Hang Mike Spradlin Committee
Bryan Miller Chairman of the Deacons, Finance Committee, ECS President, Long Range Planning Committee, Pastor Search Committee
John Crockett Chairman of the Budget Planning Committee,Finance Committee,
(10+years)John Caldwell Chairman of Deacon Nominating Committee, Finance Committee, Board of Directors, Wife - Pastor Search Committee, Long Range Planning Committee
Jeff Arnold Chairman of the Long Range Planning Committee, Finance Committee, Board of Directors, Pastor Development Council, Pastor Search Committee
We have the control and you can't have any say so. If you want to make a difference, keep your mouth shut and become one of us. If not, go away or be quiet. We don't interpret the laws of the land like you do. In fact, I'm not interested in what the State of Tennessee says. And by the way, we don't operate under bylaws here. We don't need them. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!

God only speaks to the elite. Now be quiet and just drop your offerings in the plate and go on with yourself.

Piglet said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Truth or Lie? said...

David Coombs said:
"I believe this will facilitate an
atmosphere of trust and a cooperative spirit for the purpose of spreading the gospel of
Jesus Christ."

Oh how we wish this was the case David. Until the leaders of BBC come forward and open the doors to Bellevue's finances for the past several years, there will be no trust. You can't shove an atmosphere down our throats. When you do this, we gag and choke. Can't you see what you are doing? God knows what is going on and you will continue to be exposed.
David, please volunteer to postpone your ordination service until things are right.
You will do yourself nor the church any good if you go forward with it.

Remember that Saul was left in office while David was the one anointed. Don't think for one minute that it isn't possible for Steve Gaines to not be the man God wants as pastor of Bellevue.

Why is it so easy for 1000's to see how wrong things are inside the leadership of Bellevue?

2006Huldah said...

Yesterday I said--

The greater the number praying about this, then perhaps He will answer sooner. There is something awesome coming.

****
This was not it--

-NEW ADMINISTRATIVE PASTOR'S PAGE-

Keep on praying--fervently. Something REALLY awesome IS coming!

"...but the Lord was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake. And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire a still, small voice." I Kings 19:11-12

Dee

New BBC Open Forum said...

huldah wrote:

"Can we have it where we can choose to 'opt out' on the picture part?"

I don't see why not. They could just put one of those little silhouette thingies there instead. Of course, I've already had my photo taken in anticipation.

"Yesterday I said--

"The greater the number praying about this, then perhaps He will answer sooner. There is something awesome coming."

****
"This was not it--

"-NEW ADMINISTRATIVE PASTOR'S PAGE-"


Oh, good. What a relief. That would have been anticlimactic to say the least.

Truth or Lie? said...

David Coombs said:
"On December 3, 2006, Harry Smith gave the closing report from the ad hoc
Communication Committee."

David,
Where you there? If you were then you need to appologize for the way Harry handled himself representing Bellevue.
The numbers were growing, more questions were asked, and no answers were given. Harry said numerous times, "I don't know". Was it your decision to shut the CC meeting down? I think the leadership was afraid of the growing numbers that were showing up.
Harry even tried to end the meeting early but a precious lady went into the hallway and carried the sign in with the published times listed.
The whole meeting was staged with the various committee members told to spread out into the crowd and disrupt. Steve Tucker was see rolling his eyes and making wisecracks during the meeting just before he was asked to close in prayer so he prayed to everyone seeking answers in the room and hamnmered them over the head while he told everyone he was going to go teach the Bible.
That was a shameful day in the life of Bellevue.

sheeplessatbbc said...

NASS,

YOU'RE USING MY PICTURE!!

socwork said...

Well, NASS, you are just adorable!

I mean, you read people's posts and you get a picture in your mind of what people look like. Who knew!

Truth or Lie? said...

David Coombs said:
"This
work was to begin in January in conjunction with the budgeting process for the 2007-
2008 church year.
As we all know, shortly after I received this assignment, the Paul Williams issue
surfaced. I was asked to lead the investigation team on that issue."

David,
We all know the Paul Williams issue surfaced in June of 2006. Only after the victim came back to Steve Gaines in December and confronted him over the "right thing to do" and the news was getting out into the public was Steve Gaines forced to do something.

This shameful lack of wisdom on the part of the pastor led to an embarrasing event that shamed not only the Williams family, but Bellevue Baptist Church. This didn't have to happen this way but once again, the leadership has covered for the pastor had refuses to hold him accountable.

If you were leading the investigation on this, why didn't you recommend that the victim be interviewed in the process.

There seems to be a pattern of the church leadership not allowing victims to have a say so.

David Coombs,
Do you believe in Matthew 18?
I understand you prevented Matthew 18 from being played out just this week between another staff member and a dedicated member of Bellevue.
This was concerning an issue surrounding the failure of the church leadership to deal with the Paul Williams continuing story.

Hope Patterson said...

esther,

Faith's point was that the people who are claiming to want what's best for her are recklessly putting her in danger.


Faith doesn't follow men. Leave her alone. If you had one tenth of one percent of the love and compassion that she has for her fellow Christians your posts would be very different. And no, that's not a putdown. She's a true heroine of the faith, and we could all learn from her.

Mrs. C said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
2006Huldah said...

NASS--GREAT PHOTO ! And you put on your best Sunday fur collar. :)

Why are we kidding around? To keep from crying?

Truth or lies?, I am sorry. Everything you are saying is so true. Derrick Calcote's comment of how 'gracious' DC is being, and what a wonderful example of 'turning the other cheek'. Does he think nobody noticed what David Coombs said in the next-to-last paragraph of the Feb. 14 letter? Here goes:

"Proverbs 11:3 says, 'The integrity of the upright will guide them.' But let's not forget the second half of that verse: 'But the crookedness of the treacherous will destroy them."

The above paragraph is an exact quote of David Coombs in that letter--middle comment and all.

I wonder how the Lord Jesus sees it? Well, I know in my spirit (which is HIS spirit in me) what HE sees. HE has REALLY GOOD vision.

"But the Lord said unto Samuel, 'Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature, because I have refused him; for the LORD SEETH not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart." I Samuel 16:7

Keep praying.

Dee

Piglet said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Esther said...

"Faith's point was that the people who are claiming to want what's best for her are recklessly putting her in danger."

If she is in danger, then I take it "Faith" is not her real name or she would not put it on a blog. She also published her last name, too, or is it?

What is best for Faith, for me, for everyone is to follow scriptural commands and precepts. It is the only way to the narrow gate. Your leaders are not following scripture. Making excuses for their willfully ignoring scripture does not help them, the church or you.

You will NEVER see me let up on this point. The Word is the Word of God, The Word WAS FLESH, there just ain't no way around that. Does anyone else at BBC love you enough 'eternally' to tell you this?

Follow Christ not Steve Gaines or David Coombs because you cannot do both.

Piglet said...

mrs.c

Your profile is not available.

Mrs. C said...

Piglet,
Sorry, Give me a minute and I will try to fix that.
Thanks!

Truth or Lie? said...

derrick calcote,
Your words ring hollow just as D Coombs does.
If you didn't want your personal information released to the public, why is your phone number and address listed? All I did was go to phonebook.com and do a quick check for your name under Tennessee and presto. I would suggest getting an unlisted phone number if you don't want anyone to know you.
Do you ever get junk mail? I'm sure you tear mail up every day if you don't want to read it. If you get a letter from Integrity Does Count, just deliver it to the old circular file.
On the other hand, there are thousands of people who want to know what's going on. Many of them don't have the internet and are begging to hear the other side of the story that is being spun by our leaders. Are you like our communist neighbors across the seas who won't allow information flow to those who want it?
Some people want to stick their head in the sand because they don't want to be confronted with the truth. The truth always causes one to act on it and some would just as soon not hear it.
Some people don't want others to hear the truth but it doesnt' give them a right to keep others that want to hear both sides of the story. Let them make their own decisions instead of controlling them.

25+yrs@BBC said...

DC wrote:

"Proverbs 11:3 says, "The integrity of the upright will guide them. But let's not forget the second half of that verse: "But the crookedness of the treacherous will destroy them."

25+ says:

The context of the letter seems to lend the impression that this was a salvo at J. Manning and IDC.

This admonition from the new Administrative Pastor, yet-to-be-ordained-and-sounding-judgmental, does not help heal the current split in the church.

Yes, believers have an enemy, but it is not fellow believers. Josh Manning, et al are not DC's enemies or Bellevue's for that matter. To the contrary, they want the light to shine as brightly as possible to expose any "crookedness" and any "treachery."

As I understand it, they want the whole congregation to know the whole story... from the exit of the former CFO, to the "Dream" or "not to dream," to the gift to FUMC, to the PW affair and the Investigative Team's failure to interview the VICTIM.

It is always the better part of wisdom to take care when pointing--or quoting verses that are pointed--to remember that God made us so that three fingers are pointing back at us when we do.

Truth is not afraid of light--
and truth will not be hidden.
jmo

Mrs. C said...

Piglet,
I am unable to log in to access my profile to make it available for some reason. Does that mean I have to stop posting? Sorry.

Piglet said...

Mrs c

I don't know. NASS will have to answer that. I'm not sure why you are having trouble...

Mrs. C said...

piglet,
I think I cannot remember my password correctly - oh my!
I am still trying.
If I cannot, NASS can delete me - (tears of shame).

Truth or Lie? said...

David Coombs,
Being ordained is a serious matter for you to consider. I am very serious when I ask you to please reconsider your ordination service coming up at the end of the month.
If you are truly called to be a pastor, you will not hurl scripture like you just did at any member of our beloved Bellevue while they are interested in seeking Truth. You have not reached out to anyone that I know of personally to sit down with them and discuss any of their concerns.
Instead, you have chosen to side with the millionaires club and do everything in your power to stifle Truth by covering up and hiding information that Baptist's have always had access to.
I am curious about your background in church. I truly don't know but I would guess you didn't grow up in a Southern Baptist Church. Perhaps I am wrong but you don't remind me of a Southern Baptist. You may take that statement as derogatory if you wish but I make the statement because the direction you choose to drive Bellevue in is not the direction I'm interested in going.
It's a very dangerous thing for you to be ordained if you or the church is not ready for it.

socwork said...

well said 25+yrs

I've been trying to put into words my thoughts about the letter, but you said it very well. I agree with the "salvo" thought (although, I did have to look that word up in the dictionary :).

I'm having a very difficult time giving DC the benefit of the doubt... in fact, I think it would be foolish of me to do so, after all we have seen.

Piglet said...

mrs. c,

This is Mr. Piglet.

If you click your user id on one of your post it will bring up your profile.

In the upper left hand corner there will be a large blue button that says "edit your profile".

If you click on the "edit your profile" button it will bring up your profile and if you check the first box "share my profile", you will be operating lawfully. :)

Truth or Lie? said...

David Coombs,
You hurled Proverbs 11:3 to insult truthseekers.

Read Proverbs 11:1 - "The Lord abhors dishonest scales, but accurate weights are his delight.

11:2 - When pride comes, then comes disgrace but with humility comes wisdom.

Might I remind you that God is concerned with honesty, integrity, truth, and righteousness in the marketplace.

Deception in the church is wrong and you have publicly refused to allow members seeking truth to have questions answered and books opened.

Immediately following your scripture used,

Proverbs 11:4 - "Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death."

Money can't buy righteousness in God's economy.

The millionaires club are not the only ones that can lead Bellevue.

New BBC Open Forum said...

mrs. c,

You might have to try it again later. We had this problem one day a few weeks ago when several people found their previously visible profiles not visible. The problem cleared up on its own. I can tell you that if you weren't logged in, you wouldn't be able to post. You've posted before, and I know your profile has been visible in the past or I would have noticed by now. If you created your account using Blogger, log in that way. Otherwise log in using your Google account.

I'm still working on getting away from this format altogether, but in the meantime I guess we'll deal with the quirks of the system.

InformedatBBC said...

Piglet -

Please email using the email in my profile. Unfortunately you don't have an email listed.

Truth or Lie? said...

David Coombs,

Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise."

In "Morning Mannah" April 5
Steve Gaines says - "Why should a person drink alcoholic beverages, even in moderation? What good comes from it? It is also difficult for a Christian to be a social drinker and a soul-winner.

...the best policy is abstinence. Nothing good comes from it. Get it out of your house, adn out of your life. If you are thirsty, drink some water or a Coke. Better yet, drink deeply from God's Living Water, the Holy Spirit.

David Coombs,
Why were you purchasing wine at your table at Jim and Nick's on Germantown Parkway on Thanksgiving Eve?

Do you have alcohol in your home?

Why are we asking a man to be ordained into the ministry at Bellevue who has purchased alcohol at a local restaurant?

Why would Steve Gaines allow this?

What are we doing as a church?

Does anyone care anymore about anything that is righteous?

We accepted a child molester until we had to dismiss him and now this!

Please God, continue to cleanse Your church.

2006Huldah said...

Truth or lie?--

You have worked very hard tonight, but I am sure you did not mind doing the Lord's work. Were you ever in the Marine Corps?

Dee

Lindon said...

The letter on the website by DC was right out of the GCM playbook in all its content and presentation.

Trust me, there are people out there who will read that and say, 'See, he just wants unity and harmony'.

Don't think for one moment that God does not allow delusions. And that is what it is because these guys have totally ignored the Word in totality.

I have to wonder if the Beatitudes would move DC at all. Especially the first one. Let us remember that our Lord met his disciples away from the crowd to teach them the Beatitudes before they went out preaching. They are what we should strive for but these are really the first criteria for shepherds.

The first one and most important in a shepherd: Blessed are the Poor in Spirit which means total humility.

The second one: Blessed are those that mourn means mourning for our sin. It means that our sin should break us.

As for number 9...The peacemakers. Don't twist that one. You cannot make peace with lies, deception and secrecy from shepherds in the church. That would be making peace with unfruitful deeds of darkness which is controlled by Satan.

Oh that pulpit committees would make the Beatitudes their criteria for shepherds!

Lwood said...

In Mr. Coombs letter he states that "The Committies are elected by the church".This is about half way in the posted letter..I must have missed something. I don't remember electing all these men to the committies..Swallow and Follow....Seems to still be their motto....

Trollcakes said...

Sorry to repost this comment from the last thread, but Bratton still hasn't replied to the following response to his assigning equivalence to anonymity on BBC Open Forum and the lack of transparency and accountability by the church leadership.

I won't hold my breath that he'll answer. I find it ironic that the "personal responsibity" crowd now fall into the pit (or uncharted waters) of moral relativism and situational ethics.

"Bratton, why do you harp on these peoples anonymity so much? A "reporter" should know that anonymity is as old as the age, and has been employed for many purposes--yet usually to veil the identity of one whom would otherwise feel coerced, badgered and subject to backlash by the wealthy, powerful or simply the impetuous--haha(not naming names).

Nobody here wants a bevy of deacons, dressed like morticians, jumping their (little) fence for a smattering of spontaneous "fellowship." You don't think people here have any call to fear some downward pressure from the big guns at BBC, eh?

No, I cannot really think of anybody who ever experienced a negative consequence to their life stemming from the expression of dissent to the leadership of Bellevue."

Can you?

Truth or Lie? said...

2006Huldah,

I take the Marine comment as a compliment. Although I've never been a Marine, I feel like joining the Marines. I pray for them on a regular basis as I have a picture to remind me of them, hanging in my office.

There is a Marine saying that goes like this:
The Impossible Is Done With The Lord's Help And A Few Good Men

I believe with all of my heart that it doesn't take a wealthy person, a bible scholar, or a brilliant person to understand the simple Truths of the Bible. There is right and there is wrong.

It's very hard to stand and I along with others will be very public soon. With the Lord's help, help is on the way.

God bless you and good night.

Trollcakes said...

Cloak & Dagger

Disguising shadows are concealers
Of traitors spies and double dealers
In the street somebody staggers
Killed again with cloak and dagger

If somebody tells you that their love is true
Don't believe it if they hold a gun to you
There's cold war tactics hidden in a smiling face
A pretty kind of poison that will leave no trace

Disguising shadows are concealers
Of traitors spies and double dealers
In the street somebody staggers
Killed again with cloak and dagger

If somebody tells you 'bout the master plan
Don't believe it if they got the bloody hands
Secret agents masked in plastic moulded smiles
Wolves that stalk the innocent and trusting child

Disguising shadows are concealers
Of traitors spies and double dealers
In the street somebody staggers
Killed again with cloak and dagger

Words and Music by Terry Taylor and Jerry Chamberlain
©1981 Paragon Music Corp./ASCAP

Ed_T said...

Over the last 8 months I've grown cynical, my friends. I will admit that. So it is in that state of mind that I ask the following question:

Does BBC, Inc. have a horse farm somewhere?...because it took an awful large herd of them to generate the amount of equine fertilizer being scattered about in portions of those statements by DC.

"Reconciliation"? Yeah, right. As stated in one letter, we are viewed as nothing but the treacherous ones whose "crookedness" will one day "destroy" us. Oh, boo-hoo.

I thought that according to "Nehemiah" Gaines, the church was too busy to "come down from the wall" to talk to all us "Sanballats" and "Tobiahs" and any other of the pagan enemies of the gospel to which we have been associated in the course of events.

If they can't find time to talk to - and fail to understand the importance of talking to - THE key witness in a molestation case, then I doubt they have time for reconciliation with other matters.

Time to shake the dust off the sandals and move on. (Hark! Is that rejoicing inside the administrative offices I hear? I can hear them now: "Yee-haw, at least that Thompson family finally took our 'if you don't like it leave' advice"!)

Ed "ahh, that felt good to vent" Thompson

P.S. I wonder if churches ever purge their rolls because Bellevue can only find about 18,000 of that oft-repeated, but inaccurate 30,000 number. Whatever the count, it's going to be 5 less soon.

FallethNtheDitch said...

Will David Coombs be preaching on wens nites after his ordination?Will his salary be available to the church body?Will King Steve save a spot for the holy land tour for him?Or will David Coombs have to check in with Harry?Will there be a new coranation committe or will it be a ordination committe?Or could it be the New Pasturized Committe?If you can"t get ordained you could be Pasturized...If you follow this elder led money hungry Pastor and his self serving bosses you could be allowed to be Ordained Coranated and Pasturized all in one service...Folks our church has been Hijacked...David Coombs a man of integrity?I watched him insult a man of intgrity my former sunday school teacher in the communacation meetingns and still has not apoligised.He is a deceiver and these men continue to lie against the truth.I also don"t buy into their reconcillation and unity ploy they are trying to do an end run on preaching that they are felling brokeness yet looking for ways to control the church thru any administration power move they can muster.I still Pray God will remove these self serving men from Bellevue.Good night...

Trollcakes said...

Will David Coombs be preaching on wens nites after his ordination?

The monotone guy wearing the scowl who delivered the Internal investigation before the church?

That should be riveting.

2006Huldah said...

Truth or lie?--

If you're not still on here, I hope you will see this tomorrow. My husband was a Marine and so was his father. My husband is strong, handsome and a simple man. He would never say he anywhere near a scholar, but he is a good man. He reads the Bible everyday at work on his lunch hour. He started doing that about 5 years ago, and he has read it all the way through about 3 times.

You just reminded me of a Marine. You have that bulldog determination and strength of character about you--like my husband. I just want you to know that I and many others appreciate your courage and strength. I will be sure to make a not of it when you become 'known'.

Something more than just good is coming from the Lord. It is very near to us even now.

Good night to you.

Dee

Lindon said...

"The monotone guy wearing the scowl who delivered the Internal investigation before the church?

That should be riveting."

Cakes, you can retract the claws now. :o)

aslansown said...

When I read the letter to bellevue this afternoon my first reaction was two-fold.

1. I immediately thought of that greast line from Casablanca, "round up the usual suspects". Claude Raines where are you when we need you?

2. I also thought that I might sell my Bellevue stock that I have been accumulating for 20 plus years, but found that the integrity clause was fataly flawed rendering the paper useless. I was going to hand it down to my children and grandchildren, but I may just keep it as a momento of what was and a hope for what colud be. Maybe it will be worth something someday as a curiosity piece.

Lindon said...

Dee, Everytime I come here I am blessed by your comments. I love you. Lin

2006Huldah said...

I really wish I had proofread that last post, but I was trying to maybe catch 'truth or lies?' before he left for the night.

Pardon my imperfection.

Dee

socwork said...

Well, good night my friends... I hope everyone sleeps well despite the "stones" rolling around in our heads.

Just remember... oh, nevermind, I can't remember.

Good night.

2006Huldah said...

Lindon,

What a very kind thing to say. I wish I had the knowledge of the Word of God that you have.

Isn't it wonderful how the Body of Christ works, when it's working like it's supposed to? I never would have thought that I could have said anything that would bless someone as 'sound' as you.

I love you, too.

Dee

Truth or Lie? said...

2006huldah,

I wanted to drop you a note of thanksgiving before going to bed.
I was catching the news and decided to take one last look at the blog this evening. I'm glad I did.
You and our country is very fortunate to have your husband.
May God bless you and your family tonight with rest for tomorrow.

Lindon said...

"I never would have thought that I could have said anything that would bless someone as 'sound' as you."

You have what I lack. A Sweet spirit of love about you.

Good thing I was not born during the Crusades. :o) I may have ended up on a pyre.

To all: If anyone here ever sees me twisting scripture, I beg you to rebuke me for eternity sake.

noscales said...

David Coombs said "I am here to serve the Lord and to serve you"
The term "serve you" I would take to mean the membership. Can you please explain how you were serving a member of 30+ years this week when he requested a meeting with a staff member and you told him there was no time for that and canceled the meeting. Would you have reacted the same way to this member if he wanted to have a meeting to praise the administration? Why was Larry Ray allowed to address a Bible Fellowship class and to state his opinion that Dr Rogers "knew the truth about PW"? Does the drop in attendance not tell you and others that the sheep of Bellevue are not happy? The intimidation may work on some people but there are many at BBC who FEAR NO MAN.

Piglet said...

REGARDING THE IDC MEETING THAT WAS TO TAKE PLACE ON OR BEFORE FEBRUARY 16

In light of the fact that the Bellevue leadership has denied the members a membership roll and a place to meet, this event will have to be postponed until further notice.

2006Huldah said...

Fallethntheditch,

You were hilarious with the 'combo' deals you offered tonight. You know, like the three-in-one deal. Now, that would be the way for DC to go. Huh?

Yes, we laugh a little and we cry a lot over all this. I will be so glad when the One on the white horse rides onto the scene. There will be no fooling around then. HE will make it ALL right. Hallelujah! I love Him. I really do.
Father, forgive us ALL our wrongdoings. Give us strength and courage to keep on going until You straighten out this crookedness. And, truly, Lord, when You search our hearts, please make us fully aware of any wrong attitude or crookedness or filthiness or error that is present in us. Thank You for being with us. Thank You for hearing us when we call. Thank You for living in us and wanting us. Thank You for suffering for us so that we can be with You for all eternity. Thank You for these problems that I know You already have solved. Thank You for testing us so that we can become more like YOU. Abba, Father, we praise You. We love You so much. Amen. Thank You, Lord Jesus. Holy, Holy, Holy. You are HOLY.

Piglet said...

truth orlie? said

It's very hard to stand and I along with others will be very public soon. With the Lord's help, help is on the way.

Piglet says:

God bless you. I have been praying for you and others to do just that. :)

junk99mail said...

At 11:53 PM, February 15, 2007
Lindon said...
To all: If anyone here ever sees me twisting scripture, I beg you to rebuke me for eternity sake.

junk99mail replies...
I think that "Twisted Scripture" would be a good name for a Christian punk rock band with bad theology....

:)

ezekiel said...

Job 5:7 Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.

5:8 I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:

5:9 Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:

5:10 Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:

5:11 To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.

5:12 He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform [their] enterprise.

5:13 He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

5:14 They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.

5:15 But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.

5:16 So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.

5:17 Behold, happy [is] the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

5:18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.

5:19 He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.

5:20 In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword.

5:21 Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.

5:22 At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.

5:23 For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.

5:24 And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle [shall be] in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin.

Trollcakes said...

Cakes, you can retract the claws now. :o)

MEOW--grrr! Sorry, me nice kitty.

2006Huldah said...

Ezekiel,

Do you think when you hear the same scripture from two different sources within the same week or day together, that the Lord is witnessing to you? I mean, like He REALLY means for you to pay attention because He is speaking to YOU? I am sure of it.

And do you know that as soon as I get off this computer, I will be reading the WORD at my favorite time of day (the wee hours of the morning--right after midnight) AND I will be reading Job 4-7 as a minimum? That just 'happens' to be exactly where I am in this go-around. So, guess WHO just used YOU to speak to ME. Yes. You know. Thank you for being a dependable messenger.

Love to you, my brother, in the Lord Jesus,

Dee

gmommylv said...

Amos....where are you????? When I process the major things I believe God taught me today and if I can articulate them enough to share....I need your back up. I know you will have just the right scriptures. Hope you are well!

A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
concernedSBCer said...

Certain: Why is that so important to you? It seems to me if the administration would follow the law, nothing that has been happening need to continue because there would be answers to the questions. The letters were disingenuous and condescending at best and certainly rang hollow in light of repeated requests for meetings from many participants. As kids say, "You need to walk the walk before you can talk the talk;" the attitudes in the very recent past lead to a suspicion of the sincerity of his words.

So I ask again: Why are the names on this blog so important to you? If these matters are resolved, all will be over, the church will be united again, and everyone can move forward together. What difference do the names make?

And just a reminder someone earlier posted: if DC was worried about privacy, why did he post on the web the names and addresses of those receiving the letters? Kind of seems like a double standard to me on his part......

A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ezekiel said...

Job 12:13 With him [is] wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.

12:14 Behold, he breaketh down, and it cannot be built again: he shutteth up a man, and there can be no opening.

12:15 Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth.

12:16 With him [is] strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver [are] his.

12:17 He leadeth counsellors away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools.

12:18 He looseth the bond of kings, and girdeth their loins with a girdle.

12:19 He leadeth princes away spoiled, and overthroweth the mighty.

12:20 He removeth away the speech of the trusty, and taketh away the understanding of the aged.

12:21 He poureth contempt upon princes, and weakeneth the strength of the mighty.

12:22 He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.

12:23 He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them [again].

12:24 He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness [where there is] no way.

12:25 They grope in the dark without light, and he maketh them to stagger like [a] drunken [man].

The Power of God....

Standingontheshoulders1973 said...

I was reminded this morning in a devotional of the following verses:

"I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.” (Psalms 40:1)

And,

“The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.” (Lamentations 3:25)

Sometimes waiting "PATIENTLY" is hard--excruciating, in fact! But, as Dee reminded everyone last night--we need to keep praying! God is in control and He will work His purposes in His time and in His way.

Let's just keep seeking Him and obeying what He tells us to do!

Have a blessed day!

Standing

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
MOM4 said...

Well, I have had some more disheartening news this morning. Charlie Brand has been "appointed" to chair yet another Board. John Bramlett's organization now has him as chairman. I am wondering how the "Bull" feels about that, especially since I thought he was at GBC now. Are these guys just grabbing power anywhere they can without concern for the ministries they are destroying?
Somebody tell me why man's power is more important to these men that God's power?

concernedSBCer said...

Certain: Why do you feel it necessary to call names? I didn't call you any names, I just stated my opinion in a non-personal way. It made me feel like I was back in elementary school......when a question can't or won't be answered, namecalling is a last resort.......

A Certain BBC Member said...

mom4,

my name is James. your turn.

A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
concernedSBCer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ezekiel said...

2006Hulda,

What you experienced is what has been happening to me for the last year! I read and then it is confirmed everywhere I look, everywhere I read and with anyone I talk to.

How I could get from where I was to this today is truly by His hand and through His grace and mercy! Gives a whole new meaning to "such a time as this"!

Please enjoy the following Scripture. I found it researching
"foal of a wild donkey becomes a man".

Psalms 62:1 chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of David.> Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him [cometh] my salvation.

62:2 He only [is] my rock and my salvation; [he is] my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.

62:3 How long will ye imagine mischief against a man? ye shall be slain all of you: as a bowing wall [shall ye be, and as] a tottering fence.

62:4 They only consult to cast [him] down from his excellency: they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly. Selah.

62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation [is] from him.

62:6 He only [is] my rock and my salvation: [he is] my defence; I shall not be moved.

62:7 In God [is] my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, [and] my refuge, [is] in God.

62:8 Trust in him at all times; [ye] people, pour out your heart before him: God [is] a refuge for us. Selah.

62:9 Surely men of low degree [are] vanity, [and] men of high degree [are] a lie: to be laid in the balance, they [are] altogether [lighter] than vanity.

62:10 Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart [upon them].

62:11 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power [belongeth] unto God.

62:12 Also unto thee, O Lord, [belongeth] mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
A Certain BBC Member said...

mom4,

no I won't work there. do you also go by carolyn?

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
concernedSBCer said...

Certain, you don't have to necessarily trust us. The facts are in black and white. The letters, apologies for misdeeds, video, audio....all is there. Don't you see....it's not about what we say....the facts are indisputable. Overlay scripture with what has been happening inside BBC and you will seee for yourself. God's laws, let alone man's laws, are not being adhered to.

eprov said...

certain....
just an observation. You and the other contrary voices play the same games you attempt to critize. I scan read here occasionally to stay informed. I can respect the majority of opinions that are stated because they represent the emotions of people who care regardless of their positions. Seems to me a mature response would be to at least respect others regardless of their position. BTW, I am a member. Do not buy the corporate story. I think it is a classic failure in public relations. And unlike you, I fully disclose. You don't even have an email address. Seems you protest too loudly to be credible. My mother always admonished that "if you can't say anything good....." You know the rest!

2006Huldah said...

a certain bbc member said,

"you are a joke. don't dance around what I had to say and point the blame on BBC. it's time for YOU people here to take the first step and reveal yourselves. are you scared to? why wouldn't you want to post your name and address for all to see here? what are you ashamed of?"
****

Dear Certainbbcmember,

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Greetings! and Good Morning to you! I have read your statements this morning, and there is actually a REAL solution to this problem. 'NewBBCOpenForum' made a wonderful suggestion last night that I think many members of Bellevue might agree with and see a need for just to enable us to contact friends, acquaintances, and brothers and sisters at our church. It would be an online, easily updated, password-accessed directory of members. Photos could be used if one wanted to add that feature, and, of course, there would be an 'opt-out' choice sent to all members prior to the creation of this online book. Of course, if anyone wanted a copy in print, they could just print it out from the computer.

What do you seriously think about this idea? I have been a member of Bellevue for 28 years, and I have often wished we had a directory available to sort of 'close the gap' on the fact that Bellevue is such a large congregation and enable us to contact each other more readily.

Dee (This is my real name.)

A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lwood said...

A Certain BBC Member said...
mom4,

it is a yes or no question, so i will take that as a yes since you are dancing around the question.

how about we start a blog directory as a first step. make pages with your real names, addresses, photos, and so on. nass, what do you say? i nominate you to put your picture up first.

8:34 AM, February 16, 2007

Nass put her picture up last night. Scrool up and look......

2006Huldah said...

Ezekiel,

From what you said, I know that the Lord's hand is definitely on you; but I know you don't need me to tell you this. Thanks for the beautiful WORD for today.

Dee

New BBC Open Forum said...

certain,

I already did. Scroll back up to 9:21 last night and look!

Let me repeat, just in case you missed it. People do not have to reveal their identities to post here. That's as long as they are not just trying to disrupt the blog. In that case they risk being "outed" should someone know who they are. It's obvious that's your only intent, so "James" or whoever you are, either stop harping on it and stop the namecalling, or I will continue to delete your posts.

NBBCOF

2006Huldah said...

Standingontheshoulders1973 wisely said,

"...keep praying! God is in control and He will work His purposes in His time and in His way.

Let's just keep seeking Him and obeying what He tells us to do!"
****

Thank you for blessing us this morning with this word of encouragement. I love you.

Dee

eprov said...

2006huldah.....
One of my sons is a former Marine. He plays trumpet in orchestra. All those 'former' guys share an unusual bond! His and my joke is he calls me 'chair force' (Air Force) and I call him an EX Marine! LOL

concernedSBCer said...

Psalm 37 1-3

Do not fret because of evildoers
Nor be envious of the workers of iniquity.
For they shall soon be cut down like the grass,
And wither as the green herb.
Trust in the Lord and do good;
Dwell in the land, and feed on His faithfulness.

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ed_T said...

Hmmm...another interesting thing. Our soon to be ordained newest minister on staff (and apparently the members of the board also) views deacons and others in leadership as the equivalent to politicians running for office to "make a difference". Or just how else do you interpret this phrase (emphasis mine):

we respectfully suggest that those members who disagree with certain decisions made by those duly appointed by the entire congregation are entitled to strive to move into positions of influence and leadership by convincing the congregation of their worth and entitlement to such positions.

Brother Calcote and any other deacons out here, where and when might I contribute to your next campaign for "re-election"?

Is it a noble and holy goal in church life now to "strive" to be Chairman of the Deacons so that change can be implemented? Do you see yourselves, as apparently DC does, as the church equivalent of worldly politicians?

aslansown said...

From last night and unfortunately still true:

When I read the letter to bellevue this afternoon my first reaction was two-fold.

1. I immediately thought of that great line from Casablanca, "round up the usual suspects". Claude Raines where are you when we need you? WHo would have thought that these men would be CHOSEN to serve on a new committee designed to legalize the way Bellevue does things? (Please note heavy sarcasm in my voice)

2. I also thought that I might sell my Bellevue stock that I have been accumulating for 20 plus years, but found that the integrity clause was fataly flawed rendering the paper useless. I was going to hand it down to my children and grandchildren, but I may just keep it as a memento of what was and a hope for what could be. Maybe it will be worth something someday as a curiosity piece.

sickofthelies said...

It appears to me that Soon-To-Be-Ordained-Pastor-Former-Chief-Financial-Officer-David Coombs has laughed in EVERYONE'S face, not just mine. Welcome to my world.

aslansown said...

sickofthelies said...
It appears to me that Soon-To-Be-Ordained-Pastor-Former-Chief-Financial-Officer-David Coombs has laughed in EVERYONE'S face, not just mine. Welcome to my world.

9:34 AM, February 16, 2007


Mind if I share just a small corner? It appears that it may be all that I can stand.

25+yrs@BBC said...

Has anyone heard an apology for the apparent lie told to the Commercial Appeal by the new Administrative Pastor of Bellevue. In the paper he said that they were not denied, but on tape he clearly said: "No, no, no, no."

Anyone heard an apology to the congregation for this very public matter? Explanation? Excuse? Spin?

No? Well, then it seems that the attitude is just blame Josh and run over the members asking questions.

That letter plays to the crowd that he assumes backs his view of those who are asking questions.

Whoever lays hands on him before he deals with BOTH man and God regarding this matter will appear to be approving him with this baggage in tow. Regardless of how they may spin what happened to SOTL, this was in print and audio--with adequate CONTEXT.

Once Bellevue was an example of what a church should be... It is fast becoming an example to avoid.
jmo

allofgrace said...

Funny but I don't recall ever reading in scripture about anyone "striving" to be in a place of leadership within the church. But then I don't recall reading anything about committees or BOD's either. Perhaps the day will come when those who have "strived" to be in their positions will have solidified their power enough that they no longer need a congregation...they will exist only as a rich and influential political machine, who just needs the financial contributions of the hardcore "true believers" in the party line and cause. Welcome to the post-modern church.

2006Huldah said...

Eprov,

I like that "chair force". Ha, I'll have to share that one with my son in New Mexico who was in it for 9 years. Yep, those Marines are NEVER "ex" ones. I'll bet your son gets mad at you when you say that. There are more nicknames for Marines than any of the other branches, but those Marines have some really choice ones for the others. You know, they actually BARK when they pass an Army guy. Crazy, silly stuff.

Dee

2006Huldah said...

Allofgrace said,

"Perhaps the day will come when those who have "strived" to be in their positions will have solidified their power enough that they no longer need a congregation..."
****

And, then, their strivings would be useless. Isn't that what it says in "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God"?

Dee

aslansown said...

ALLOFGRACE:
DC and the gang have a confused reading of 1TIMOTHY 3:1 with 1TIMOTHY 4:10

1Ti.3:1
Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer (shepherd, pastor), he desires a noble task.

1Ti4:10
and for this we labor and strive, that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially those who believe.

allofgrace said...

2006huldah,
The parallels between modern politics and what is taking place at BBC are striking don't you think? The political parties of today are more than willing to sacrifice their fellow party members, supporters, etc...even the long-held and cherished "planks" of their respective platforms, for the sake of what?...winning...and for what?...mere survival of the party...forget actual substance, remaining in power is the only morality..anything which threatens to remove it from power is labeled "wrong","immoral", "evil", etc. Sound familiar?...it should.

aslansown said...

Maybe Dc was thinking of Acts 24:16

16.So I STRIVE always to keep my concience clear before God and man.

2006Huldah said...

Ed T,

Sadly, I think you have come to an accurate conclusion from your observation of the evidence. I doubt, however, that any of those fellows would be willing to admit to it.

Dee

2006Huldah said...

Allofgrace,

Yes, I agree, though in fact, they are the evil.

Dee

A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
2006Huldah said...

Aslansown,

Thanks for taking the time to find us some more appropriate "striving" references.

Dee

2006Huldah said...

Certain,

Would you go back and read my response to you at 8:30 AM? I was wondering what you thought.

Dee

A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
sickofthelies said...

Certain,

Perhaps you would like to start your own blog, and make up your own rules?

BuhBye

aslansown said...

More striving on the way:

Ro. 15:30
Now I beseech you, brethren, fo the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye dtrive together, with me in your prayers to God for me;

Lu.13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many,, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

2Yi. 2:24
And the servant of the Lord must not STRIVE; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient
25. in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth
26. and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
JU said...

James,

Are you friends with Carey? You seem to be acting in a very similar fashion. I can't see all that you've posted because of the deletions. So I can't form a more informed opinion of you as a poster. What exactly will you be adding to our mostly civil discussions here on this board? Aside from incivility.

A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
maybejustmaybe said...

Dee -- bless you, my dear sister. You edify us all with every post you make, and I appreciate your precious Christ-like demeanor and the fruit of the Spirit that is so evident in your words. I prayed for you the other day, though I didn't have time to let you know, and I'm so thankful that you are now at peace.

Also ((((((((SOTL))))))))) -- love you, Sweetie!

mjm

Piglet said...

Certain

We aren't going away whether you are on the sidelines heckling or not.

This forum belongs to NASS and she can moderate as she sees fit. Even I have been deleted,so get over it already. :) ('s okay, NASS,I understand)

We don't all agree with eachother here but we have a common goal and that is to see Bellevue restored so that she can bring glory rather than shame to our Lord. Truth and transparency are essential. Business as usual is unacceptable.

The tide is turning so you better be ready to swim or get off the beach.

A Certain BBC Member said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
maybejustmaybe said...

Certain -- your behavior and your threats are counterproductive to whatever your mission may be. This is not fostering any kind of sense of peace or reconciliation, and winning no "points" for your "side." Prayerfully and respectfully, but fervently, I ask that you knock it off.

oc said...

NASS.

It's another teenage prankster!

oc said...

NASS,

SPANK HIM!

JU said...

James,

I don't eat many potato chips but I would assume this is directed at me since you can see my profile and probably went and looked at my pictures after I responded to you. I like to think of my weight as a protection against food shortages and maybe even depressions :). BTW, did you know that long ago women actually preferred rotund men to scrawny stick men? It meant they could provide for her and her children there was no guessing about whether they'd be able to survive.

socwork said...

My goodness... I see the fun and drama is well underway today.

I mentioned the ill feelings I had when I read DC's letters yesterday evening. I'm encouraged to see some posters here evidently had a similar experience. (Not encouraged that the corruption continues, just encouraged that others see it as well).

The letter seems to be another piece to the "damage control" puzzle the administration is attempting to put together, but there are missing pieces, and how many of us know how frustrating it is to try to put a puzzle together and end up with holes in the picture.

Missing piece #1: Humility
Missing piece #2: Repentance
Missing piece #3: Honesty
Missing piece #4: Communication

I could go on, but my point is that these are pretty important pieces missing from the administration. And the letters confirmed it, imo.

socwork said...

aslansown,

2Yi. 2:24

I'm not familiar with this book. Is that one after the maps?

;)

socwork said...

I must say... that's the first time I've ever been referred to as a granny. (If anyone could see me, you would have a high likelihood of falling out of your chairs...)

Anyway, what would Charlie Fox say???

oc said...

socwork.

Yeah, I'm no granny either. Boy needs a tail whoopin'.

2006Huldah said...

Maybejustmaybe,

Thank you for your kind message and your prayers. The Lord heard those prayers for me the other day because I have been in a whole different world ever since then. Whew! I was definitely in a tailspin after hearing from Hope Patterson about the "standing on holy ground" quote. It's a long story after that, but those prayers are so important, and I thank you SO MUCH for them. Prayer moves the hand of God, and He has moved on me since then. By doing what you did, you have helped to bring about an indescribable stirring in me. Now, I am certain that He has already heard our prayers and our cries, and He is working, working. His will is being done. The battle is prayer. We all need to be praying all the time and fervently. I cannot stress enough.

I love you, my sister.

Dee

concernedSBCer said...

Where is Charlie when we need him???

I fed the troll. :(

*sitting in corner

2006Huldah said...

Oops!

I cannot stress THAT enough.

(I can STRESS more than enough when deficient in prayer and the Word.)

Dee

Piglet said...

concerned said

Where is Charlie when we need him???

I fed the troll. :(

*sitting in corner

Piglet says:

LOL! I'm having my corner professionally decorated! :D

2006Huldah said...

(Just in case anybody comes looking for me) I am going to take a time-out for a couple of hours. I have been very sick for about a week now, so I have had lots of time to post, pray and be a slob. In the next couple of hours I am going to try to correct some of my slobbiness and get my act together in general. Talk at you later, Saints.

I love you my brothers and sisters.

Dee

oc said...

Piglet and Concerned,

Save some space in the corner for me. I fed the troll too. Aaaaargh!!!!!!

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: Send your decorator to me when he/she is free.....

and please pass the ho-ho's....

socwork said...

concernedsbcer,

It is so hard not to... we've all done it at one time or another :)

You can come out of the corner.

socwork said...

ho-ho's are ok... you just need to avoid the potato chips, evidently.

concernedSBCer said...

Thanks socwork...

however, since I am a stress eater, I think I'll still go for the ho ho's...but hold the potato chips... ;)

oc said...

Socwork.

Can I come out of the corner too?

New BBC Open Forum said...

SOTL wrote:

"Perhaps you would like to start your own blog, and make up your own rules?"

I think maybe he already has... or at least is perhaps acquainted with someone who has. The two are certainly of the same juvenile mindset. See this. Recognize the "About me" name?

No discussion of the above is called for. It's just FYI.

Now, let's all repeat our mantra together...

{inhale slowly}

Don't feed the trolls. Ummmmmmm.
Don't feed the trolls. Ummmmmmm.
Don't feed the trolls. Ummmmmmm.

{exhale slowly}

Reprinted without permission from "Yoga for Christians."

concernedSBCer said...

oc: Of course! Just be careful of the potato chips.....

concernedSBCer said...

Thanks, NASS, I needed that!
:)

oc said...

all this talkin' bout ho ho's and tater chips is making me hungry.
Time for lunch! (if I'm allowed out of this corner).

socwork said...

Yes, oc, come on out! :)

Piglet said...

2006hulda

Hope you get to feeling better. Don't overdo. :)

I have small breaks in which to post while my kids are working on assignments (I homeschool) but NOW we're doing Algebra so I need all my brain cells...bye til later.

25+yrs@BBC said...

Has anyone heard an apology for the apparent lie told to the Commercial Appeal by the new Administrative Pastor of Bellevue. In the paper he said that they were not denied, but on tape he clearly said: "No, no, no, no."

Anyone heard an apology to the congregation for this very public matter? Explanation? Excuse? Spin?

No? Well, then it seems that the attitude is just blame Josh and run over the members asking questions.

That letter plays to the crowd that he assumes backs his view of those who are asking questions.

Whoever lays hands on him before he deals with BOTH man and God regarding this matter will appear to be approving him with this baggage in tow. Regardless of how they may spin what happened to SOTL, this was in print and audio--with adequate CONTEXT.

Once Bellevue was an example of what a church should be... It is fast becoming an example to avoid.
jmo

concernedSBCer said...

25+...Wouldn't an apology indicate a feeling of wrong-doing? I think that's the problem. There seems to be no feelings of wrong-doing, misleading, law-breaking, etc. That is scary.

thing 2 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
socwork said...

25+, that post is definitely worth repeating.

concernedsbcer, you are right. In fact, I think that's one of the most disturbing features of this whole ordeal - the lack of a humble spirit on the part of the leadership. Or this:

Psalm 139.23-24
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart!
Try me and know my thoughts!
24 And see if there be any grievous way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting

(And I know there have been moments of supposed emotion from SG... like on the Wednesday night after Mike Spradlin was quoted in the CA. But, if that was sincere, my name is Oprah Winfrey. Nice to meet you.)

jmo (except for the Scripture part)

sheeplessatbbc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bob barker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
oc said...

Oprah Winf...Uh, I mean Socwork,

thanks for letting me out of the corner, I was starving. Boy, dem tater chips was gooooood!!

curious cat said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
3rdside said...

Would I be correct in reasoning that someone who has called, written, or e-mailed the church to not have their names/addresses released to IDC is already aware of the issues, not necessarily honest about them, but aware nonetheless? Why else would SO MANY be all of the sudden making that request? Furthermore, would using such requests as denial fodder be in effect denying knowledge to those who do not already know the issues? I am struggling with this being a rational reason for arguing against release of a church membership list.

A subversive suggestion for IDC is to have your 50 members and additional associates join 50 (plus the number of associates) different classes and have access to active, involved families. Those are the ones who need to be targeted anyway. That could be about 1000 - 1500 families and would account for about 4000 - 6000 active members, assuming families of four, and could account for in excess of 10,000 active members.

I would suggest this directly to IDC, but I have e-mailed their address requesting information and they have not replied, so I am unsure if that organization still exists, or if it was a flash in the pan. Of course, it is an exclusive organization, possibly not unlike other groups mentioned on this blog, so my questions may not be important to them. On the other hand, their e-mail may be stacked up and I am just dreaming up false conclusions.

MOM4 said...

25+ said...
"Whoever lays hands on him before he deals with BOTH man and God regarding this matter will appear to be approving him with this baggage in tow. Regardless of how they may spin what happened to SOTL, this was in print and audio--with adequate CONTEXT."

Sort of like participating in the Lord's Supper with sin in your heart, don't you think?

There is no fear in them, God will not - HE cannot - allow them to continue without judgement. I am wondering why they cannot see that. The judgement may not come in our lifetime, but it will come.

Memphis said...

3rdside, I have also emailed IDC several times asking questions and have not gotten a reply either, so they may indeed have a problem with email. However, I believe Piglet (maybe wrong on the name) said that the meeting was postponed from the original Feb 16 date that is on their site.

As for your plan to join BF classes in order to get active names and numbers on involved families, in my opinion, I do not think that would be the best way to go about it. To me, that seems alittle bit shady.

I would think they (IDC) could place an ad in the paper, hand out fliers, or posting it on the web would be better than planting people in BF classes in order to get names and addresses of involved memebrs.

Mike Bratton said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
MOM4 said...

I agree about the ad in the paper. I would think a full page ad, with all of the lies and truths finely articulated and documented will be just as effective if not moreso than individual private letters. The only problem with that is it would present everything before the world to see and of course, that would be another source of attack from the leadership. But then, by not releasing the mailing addresses, that is their call.

New BBC Open Forum said...

curious cat,

Not chastising you for your natural feline curiosity, but that topic of discussion is over and done with. To address your questions, however, I believe some have spotted the subject in question at church. The word most often used to describe said subject was "cocky." No admission of wrongdoing and no apology have been forthcoming to date. Hope this satisfies your curiosity for now!

concernedSBCer said...

Mom4- You do have a valid point. Is that another one of those consequences we have discussed?

aslansown said...

socwork said...
aslansown,

2Yi. 2:24

I'm not familiar with this book. Is that one after the maps?

;)

11:12 AM, February 16, 2007


O.K.,O.K.
Try 2Ti.2:24. You'll find it BEFORE the maps and AFTER the OT.

You guys are SOOOOOO imature.

oc said...

Mike quoted,

Personally, I'd be flattered to know that my pastor loved me enough to hop my fence and come to my door if he knew there was a problem between us."


reply: if I wanted my pastor to visit me, he wouldn't have to 'hop' my fence. You know the intention, and it wasn't 'love'. Why don't you just be honest?

Memphis said...

Mom4, I am not promoting getting a full page ad in the paper, just wanted to say there are other ways to get a message out to people without planting people in BF classes to obtain the names and addresses of people.

But I do not see a difference in an ad in the paper and putting all the issues out on the web for all to see either.

25+yrs@BBC said...

Memphis,

The statute is very clear. They won't have to get the mailing list that way. A Judge will see to it that they receive the list imo.

Repost:
DocBellevue said:

"When Bellevue filed its corporate charter it availed itself of all legal protections afforded corporations. The downside is the corporation must obey Tennessee corporate law. Thankfully, David Coombs opinion and interpretation of that law is not determinative. It seems a judge will have to educate him on the statute he once claimed to be "very well-versed" on.

The continued lack of openness is astounding, but we should not be surprised. Deacons also find it difficult to get information. Why was there no financial or attendance report at last Sunday's deacon's meeting? No report in January either."

6:50 PM, February 15, 2007

MOM4 said...

25+ said...
docbellevue said...

"The continued lack of openness is astounding, but we should not be surprised. Deacons also find it difficult to get information. Why was there no financial or attendance report at last Sunday's deacon's meeting? No report in January either."

I guess they would have some explaining to do if the truth were known???

Lindon said...

You know, we do not know who was inspired to write the Book of Hebrews. So, I guess it is anonymous. But, some mighty good stuff in there. :o)

There was also a tradition of anonymous writings during the reformation by those being persecuted and again during the American Revolution. During the Revolution this was done so that people who debate the 'ideas' instead of the 'person'.

oc said...

lindon,

Good post!

socwork said...

Why was there no financial or attendance report at last Sunday's deacon's meeting? No report in January either

To everyone,

There is a reason for everything.

Think about it.

Keep asking questions.

Piglet said...

Lindon said

There was also a tradition of anonymous writings during the reformation by those being persecuted and again during the American Revolution. During the Revolution this was done so that people who debate the 'ideas' instead of the 'person'.

Piglet says:

I agree. In "real life" people know where our family stands but I like my comments to be received or rejected based on their merit and not based on who I am. Although there are plenty of people who know who I am.

concernedSBCer said...

I spoke yesterday to a deacon a BBC, someone I have known and respected for over 22 years, a Godly man with a Godly family. I asked him his opinion of what was going on at BBC. His reply? "Everything's fine! People are joining, getting saved; everything's great!" This still seems to be tied in to "numbers and noses" as a way to determine right or wrong, success or failure. And it would be wrong. The only true measurement would be scripture. How can Christians be missing this "piece of the puzzle?"

socwork said...

I agree. In "real life" people know where our family stands but I like my comments to be received or rejected based on their merit and not based on who I am. Although there are plenty of people who know who I am.

Well said, piglet. Same for me.

aslansown said...

socwork said...
Why was there no financial or attendance report at last Sunday's deacon's meeting? No report in January either

To everyone,

There is a reason for everything.

Think about it.

Keep asking questions.

2:04 PM, February 16, 2007


Try no report for the last 4 months. HHHHHHMMMMMMMMMM?

socwork said...

concernedsbcer,

did you notice when you spoke to him if he was wearing rose colored glasses?

or better yet, blinders?

aslansown said...

Here is some other news. It appears that Brian Miller (new chiarman of the Deacons) is largly unaware that there are many people in the Bellevue fellowship with deep concerns. He has not directly heard from more than a handful of people.I bet his number is easily found and we all certainly know his face. He needs to hear from US, both blogger and lurker alike, face-to-face.

Trollcakes said...

I never cease to be amazed at the absolute foolishness of some lines of thinking posted here. If you're anonymous on this blog, you don't have any integrity or accountability either, thus should not seek the same from the bevy of ministers--sitting on their hands (in prayer, I'm sure)for seven months (letting God move in His own time) while a admitted pedophile was on the loose.

It has been my observation that where some religious euphemism is present, there lies a piece of missing information. Do you take umbrage with the use of scripture for political purposes? I do, and it's not my scripture.

Are you upset by language that attempts to massage sentiment and milign, alienate and exclude good people that won't just play along?

You know, if Bratton, Ace, 4545, et al were as asinine face-to-face, and they confronted truth seekers with the kind of contempt exhibited here, it might get ugly. Yes, anonymity is a good thing for the moment.

How would you like to discover that the Pastor is your bosses golf buddy at the country club?
Who else doesn't want to be asked to resign their deaconship or have their children frightened by intimidating men showing up on their doorstep?

How many ways can I express it, fellers? How can people capable of such outrage not reserve even some tincture of it for the authors of the mess and the coverup--the leadership?

It begins with h and ends with y.

Finance Guy said...

lindon
There was also a tradition of anonymous writings during the reformation by those being persecuted and again during the American Revolution. During the Revolution this was done so that people who debate the 'ideas' instead of the 'person'.


The
Federalist Papers are another example of this. It wasn't until years later that the authors were known, and even to this day we aren't completely sure who wrote which one. They are considered the "bible" of the modern political conservative movement. I wonder how widely they would have been disimataed had the authors been subject to the attacks by political enemies.



We've seen how quickly personalities can be attacked. It's probably prudent in such an emotion-charged environment that the ideas are discussed free of personalities. For the first time in history, because of the internet, we have the ability to discuss issues without the distraction of the personalities involved, in virtually real time!

New BBC Open Forum said...

trollcakes wrote:

"It begins with h and ends with y."

You mean "hooey" or "horse hockey"?

oc said...

ypocrac

socwork said...

Attention bloggers: Do we have an interpreter? I repeat, do we have an interpreter?

(oc, need some help over there?)

oc said...

Socwork,

Yeah, I need help. My dog was tap dancing on my keyboard! Don't need to interpret that though. Thanks anyway.

Trollcakes said...

I love you oc.

concernedSBCer said...

oc: Now your dog has to go to the corner! What a day!

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