The Investigative and Personnel Committee Reports from January 28th are here and here.
The Commercial Appeal's story is here.
Channel 5's coverage is here and here.
FOX13's coverage is here, here, here, here, here, and here.
The latest from EthicsDaily.com is here and here.
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304 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 304 of 304s coombs
Finance guy obviously has no clue so I will save my time.
I can tell you something else I don't have, is a personal agenda.
Care to enlighten me in my cluelessness, Oh Wise One?
Why is blog not linked anymore on savingbellevue?
Sister Pam...said,
"Greetings to you in most holy name of Jesus!
I wanted to share this with you today.
Our Sunday School President`s wife called me this morning to ask if Brother Charles and I wanted our names removed from the sunday school list."
Hi Sister Pam...I hope I am not being too personal. If so, just tell me. I will certainly understand. May I ask why this woman called you to ask if you want your names removed from the sunday school list? Is this done routinely? Or is this intimidation?
Folks, I just listened to the audio of David Coombs refusing the cooperate with members requesting the minutes, etc.
What arrogance of this 'associate pastor'! I hope everyone realizes that your tithe dollars will go to pay attorney's to stonewall. Not to mention paying this arrogant man to treat members in this manner. No No No?
You paid for 'legal counsel' to help write that report, too! Protect God's Church, Christ's Bride from whom? The world? Give me a break. And all this talk about God being in control. They sure do not act like they believe this.
Listening to this made me realize this is no longer a church. The locus of control is tightening. They could care less about scripture. It is all about power.
The report didn't just say he left Williams on staff for six months; reportedly, after confessing the wretched deed, Gaines wasn't even curious about what he did at the church and the possible ramifications, for crying out loud.
This doesn't rise to the sanctity of theological battle, no matter what flak HQ mets out. Put your favorite verses back in their holsters, pardners. If you believe in God, be grateful for the common sense He gave you by using it.
BTW, I really dig those tapestries in the sanctuary.
imaresistor,
Thank you for your response.
Joseph
overflowinggrace said...
Charlie,
My point is that in the case I looke at, the requesting member was ordered by the court to pay that cost. $60k is a lot of cash.
Reply:
That case must have been in another state. TSC 48-66-104 very plainly states that BBC would have to pay any and all cost involved.
Sister Pam wrote:
I asked her if keeping scriptural commands was aligned with keeping one`s eye on Jesus?
She said "NOT NECESSARILY"!!!!"
And there you have it. That is what your pastor believes.
There is no other way to be a Christian but to keep scriptural commands and precepts. You cannot be a Christian and ignore the Word or twist it out of context to fit a premise or situation. The guidelines are clear for a minister in the Word. They were ignored. For what? Unity? Did it bring 'unity'?
Sister Pam: “In fact, If anyone tries to convince you that UNTRUTHS
are TRUE then they are proving that they have NO love for you at all.”
Amen. And many truths are not what we want to hear. They do not fit into the way we want things ordered. They do not fit worldly ways.
Think about that. Your pastor ignored scriptural commands in the case of PW. Does your pastor really ‘love’ you?
Your devotional was right on, Sister Pam.
We have bought in the comfortable lie of a false unity. Just make the negative go away. Compromise. Negotiate.
When we buy into the lie of a false unity that is not based on the Truth of Scripture, church becomes nothing but a social club.
The Word divides. It pierces the heart and convicts us of sin. Nothing else will. Only the Word.
"Is IDC going to sue the church to get the list if that is what it comes to? Is that Biblical?"
What church? They don't follow scripture there. That is what qualifies you as a real church.
Trollcates,
I know how you love scripture :)
Mark9:33-35
33 And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way? 34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest. 35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
No, No, No, No is not part of the scripture.
After two months of worst case scenarios, let us all say a silent prayer of thanks to God.
I am still praying that the DA and DCS confirms that no child has been hurt by BBC.
"The report found no other examples of sexual abuse and said no other children were molested."
--Commercial Appeal
If Chris Williams wants his father to go to jail, I will applaud brother Chris. If he decides not to have his father sent to jail, I will applaud brother Chris. I will applaud brother Chris for either of these two choices. It is between him and the Holy Spirit, and I will support him in either case as my brother.
It's a cool sentiment, but I could use a little commentary. Who's being abtuse now, boyee?
Sister Pam,
Whose Sunday School class are you in?
Dee
******
Announcement
******
I am cutting back on what I read on this blog.
The general idea is that up until recently, I have read everything on this blog. After six months, I'm not available to do that any more. Anything after 4:30 p.m. I consider optional.
I won't be lurking or posting after 4:30 p.m.
If I download a thread in the morning or after the sabbath, I might or might not look at what was posted at some point later, at my convenience.
If anybody wants me to see something please post it between the hours of 6 a.m. and 4:30pm Monday-Friday. Anything else will probably not get seen by me.
Thank you,
Joseph
Father in Heaven,
Thank you for this day. I praise your name because your name is worthy to be praised. I thank you Lord for the food that I know my family has for dinner tonight and the roof over our heads.
Please watch over us in the rush hour traffic, the most dangerous time of day for us comfy middle class types.
Thank you for Memphis, TN, the best city on earth. I know because I've been to a few other places. Thank you for America, the land of the free and the home of the brave. If not for America and the ideals we believe in, we could not even have this blog to express our free speech or have BBC to express our worship of you.
Father, you have been so merciful by letting us be in this place at this time. Help us to repay the mercy by showing love to those who call on your name even when we disagree. Help us not to ruin each other's peace and ability to love and help us to keep seeking your Son, Jesus (The real Truth).
In Jesus's name,
AMEN.
crushed: "I was referring to Esther's 11:06 post where she questioned why the wives would be crying....basically implying they were not vicitms...how dare they cry. That is what I got out of it. Esther, please correct me if I am wrong."
Go back and read coombs first post about this. He implies the 'wives' who are paid by tithe dollars are crying because of what sotl said to DC. I find this ludicrous.
Why would the words "Pepophiles thrive in silence' make them cry? sotl also tells us she did NOT point to DC and I believe her over these 'men of God' who have yet to be forthcoming.
Keep in mind, she came home and documented this little episode on this blog and a witness came on and commented who was there.
Coombs, if you read his posts, attacks then backtracks. Attacks then backtracks. I am not impressed and wonder if he knows so little as he implies, why he seems to know so much as he writes about the goings on?
I do not think he is Ace but Ace knew quite a bit of the inner workings, too.
They have a advantage over this IDC in several ways. This blog is public and they can read it for strategy (Lord knows they do not use scripture) and two, they hold the power and purse strings. They can pay attorneys with your tithe dollars.
I am impressed with how open IDC has been. Way to go fellas.
Esther said...
"Is IDC going to sue the church to get the list if that is what it comes to? Is that Biblical?"
What church? They don't follow scripture there. That is what qualifies you as a real church.
Well, since we sin and don't follow scriptures sometimes does that mean we are not Christians anymore?
If the IDC is so open, who is on the board?
bible in a year prayed: "Thank you for Memphis, TN, the best city on earth."
No disrespect intended. But, my brother, you've got to get out more! LOL :^)
Please stop fighting.
Spend the night with your families reading the Bible.
Pray for Chris. I don't know his situation, but if I were in his shoes right now I would feel the weight of the world on my shoulders.
Help him to walk like Christ as he decides if the Body of Christ would be better served with his father behind bars or not.
I don't want to influence him either way because I don't know.
I just can't imagine.
I'm just so grateful that the first of the three reports has come out favorably in terms of not finding other sexual abuse victims by PW.
Good night.
(offline until tomorrow after 6 a.m.)
(JMO, thanks)
I'm reading Stephen Coombs 8:57 AM post this morning that his dad has just been too busy to comply with state law regarding the membership list.
Hmmmm...I have to go downtown in the morning to answer for a ticket I got because of my inspection sticker. I'm really busy. And besides that, it's going to be REALLY cold. It's just not convenient.
Stephen, could you check with your dad to give me some wise counsel on how to explain to the judge that this is just not a good time?
Thanks.
Dear Joseph and others: PLEASE stop mentioning this dear victim's name. It serves no purpose and your continued comments about what he should or should not do with his father is so wrong.
For the record this dear son loves his father very much. Leave it at that.
You beg people to stop fighting and you are not doing this victim any good by what you are doing.
How would it effect you to to know that he was there Sunday night? How do you think he felt? My heart aches for him. He is such a brave young man with integrity that I envy. We should try and follow his model.
Please, do be in prayer for him and his father but stop bringing up his name. You do not know the harm you are causing. Trust me.
David Brown
SNAP coordinator of West Tennessee and Memphis
just my opinion said:
bible in a year prayed: "Thank you for Memphis, TN, the best city on earth."
No disrespect intended. But, my brother, you've got to get out more! LOL :^)
response:
LOLOL!!! JMO...somebody help!!! I find myself agreeing wtih JMO!!!
:)
Thank you LORD that Memphis isn't worse than what it is.
Sister Pam,
I just want you to know what a blessing you are to me. I read this blog every day and post very seldom. When I see a post from you I read it several times because I know it is from a heart that loves Jesus and loves truth. Between the lines I can read the disappointment and pain you feel. But also the deep love and concern you have for all. Thank you for this - again, you are a true blessing.
Charlie Fox,
The Tennessean vs. Nashville Electric Board
Appeal #01-A-01-9606-CH-00255
sickofthelies:
You might want to check yourself before posting; You're posts are very hate-filled. I can understand that you're "sick of the lies", but that's no excuse to act unChristing-like.
If you don't agree with me, then just don't reply. There's nothing I can do about it.
Just a thought.
overflowinggrace said...
Charlie Fox,
The Tennessean vs. Nashville Electric Board
Appeal #01-A-01-9606-CH-00255
Reply:
OFG,
Thank you for the info. That is a WHOLE DIFFERENT SITUATION. TSC 48-66 does NOT apply in that case. As far as who would have to pay, I refer you to TSC 48-66-104 which very plainly states that BBC would have to pay any and all cost involved.
"Well, since we sin and don't follow scriptures sometimes does that mean we are not Christians anymore? "
I am incredulous you would ask that. What does 'sometimes' mean? Is it intentional? Is it because of lack of knowledge of scripture? Are we appalled by our sin? Even the small ones. Are we in continual repentance? Are we searching scriptures daily and praying for the Holy Spirit to illuminate truth to us? To teach us? Do we hunger and thirst for righteousness? Are we on the narrow way which is hard? Are we abiding in Him continuously being fed as a branch on the Vine?
Before you ask: I am dead in sin. There is NOTHING worthy about me at all.
Charlie,
How is that different. It speaks directly to the Open Records Act. It is 100% about the open records act. That statute is not just for churches.
In all sincerity please explain how the interpretation of the law will be different in this case?
tmmk
Sorry, but i do not hate anyone.
My point was that Stephen C. explained that the reason that his father, David, had not complied with the law was because he had not had time.
I think I make a valid point that if "I" must obey the law, why does BBC get a pass?
It's a valid question.
Have a nice day. :)
Hello Everyone,
Would someone please look up the word "INCOMPETENT" and get back to me?
Thanks,
Coombs wrote: "I have to leave now. If anyone wants to talk with me in an open respectful reasonable manner at church, please approach me."
Asking questions one does not want to answer is implied as 'disrespectful'and 'unreasonable'
So, it is ok to ask questions, but only the questions they want you to ask.
Just like when sotl said 'Pedophiles Thrive In Silence' to DC on Sunday night. Now she is being labeled, too.
This is right out of the authoritarian play book. The Bible calls them Pharisees.
"You might want to check yourself before posting; You're posts are very hate-filled. I can understand that you're "sick of the lies", but that's no excuse to act unChristing-like."
What was Christ like?
Is the Word that important? Here are the writings of two Men of God on the matter:
Dr. Walter Martin (1928-1989)- “No one has a right to call themselves a Christian and not have the same view of Holy Scripture that the Master Himself did.”
Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-1892)
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:17-18, KJV)”
Let me call your attention to the fact that when Jesus had risen from the dead, He was just as tender of Scripture as He was before His decease. He told them that “all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the Law of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning Me. Then He opened their understanding that they might understand the Scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and this it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead” (Luke 24:44-46, KJV).
Find Jesus where you may, He is the antagonist of those who would lessen the authority of Holy Scripture. “It is written” is His weapon against Satan, His argument against wicked men. The learned of this hour scoff at the Book and accuse of Bibliolatry those of us who reverence the Divine Word; but in this they derive no assistance from the teaching or example of Jesus.
Not a word derogatory of Scripture ever fell from the lips of Jesus Christ; but evermore He manifested the most reverent regard for every jot and tittle of the inspired Volume. Since our Savior, not only before His death, but after it, took care to commend the Scriptures to us, let us avoid with all our hearts all teaching in which Holy Scripture is put into the background. (At the Master’s Feet, January 30)
Sister Pam, You need to teach a Sunday School class. I would love to be learning from you.
lindon wrote:
"Sister Pam, You need to teach a Sunday School class. I would love to be learning from you."
Where do I sign up?
NASS
Hello?
Anybody home?
Sure is quiet around here tonight.
I wonder if that is because Jim removed the link to this blog from savingbellevue.com? Wonder why he did that?
Nass, do you know why?
I have this blog link bookmarked, but before I did a bookmark, I used to go to Jim's website first, then link over to here?
Maybe others cannot find it now?
Hmmm?
Charlie,
How is that different. It speaks directly to the Open Records Act. It is 100% about the open records act. That statute is not just for churches.
In all sincerity please explain how the interpretation of the law will be different in this case?
Reply:
I see where you are confused. At issue is NOT the Open Records Act. TSC 48-66-101 thru 105 concerns Nonprofit Corporation Records and Reports, and MEMBER access to those records and reports. While I have no idea whether the Nashville Electric Board is a Nonprofit corporation or not, I hardly think that The Tennessean newspaper is a MEMBER of the Nashville Electric Board. Therefore TSC 48-66 would NOT apply in the case that you cited.
The answer to your question is that I don't know. Perhaps you could e-mail savingbellevue.com and ask. In the meantime, please bookmark the link for the forum:
http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com
NBBCOF
"If the IDC is so open, who is on the board?"
YOu may want to check the savingbellevue sight. There are quite a few names there listed publicly as those requesting information.
Did anyone happen to catch both Mark Sharpe and Josh on channel 13 today?
Good job guys!!!
I thought the channel 13 coverage was very favorable.
What do the rest of you think?
sotl,
I haven't seen that - do you have a link or anything?
soc,
I don't know if there is a link up on their website or not, but try going to www.fox13whbq.com and see if they have the story.
The links to tonight's FOX13 reports are now available through the last two "here's" in the reference to FOX13's coverage in the topic heading.
I ran across this and felt, I should share it with you all. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
TREASURES IN HEAVEN
A legend is a story handed down from the past that may be true but cannot be proved to be true. Such a story is told about Thomas, the disciple of Jesus.
One day the king of India wanted to find an expert builder to build a magnificent palace for him. His servant, in his search for such a builder, met Thomas on the streets of Palestine.
"Are you a builder?" he asked.
"Yes, I can build houses fit for God to dwell in," answered Thomas.
The servant, delighted with his success, took Thomas back to India with him and presented him to the king. The king gave Thomas a large sum of money with witch to build a magnificent palace.
Thomas took the money and used it to help the poor and preach the gospel. After a time, the king called for Thomas and demanded to see the palace he was building.
"The place I am building cannot be seen with eyes," answered Thomas. "It is in Heaven."
The angry king threw Thomas in prison, intending to kill him. That night in a dream, the king saw a beaufiful palace in Heaven, and it was his. When he awoke, he released Thomas from prison and became a Christian.
Jesus told us to lay up treasures in Heaven. We do this when we share our possessions and our faith with others.
sotl,re: channel 13 news
I got to see it, it was on about 3 minutes ago and they will probably show it again in the morning.
They got the timing wrong on the specific letters that were sent requesting information. I believe there were letter(s?) sent several months ago and then again the most recent requests for the mailing list and other documents. They made it sound like it was all done several months ago. I may be wrong, but I think there were a total of at least two times that specific letters went out. If anyone has specific details, it needs to be corrected to avoid confusion - mine:)
Praying for you sotl!
mom4,
Thank you for your prayers. I am doing good. Was upset Sunday night, but I've bounced back :)
sotl,
Good! I am glad you are doing better. I have pondered the unkind responses to you and others who have suffered abuse. I believe that these folks just do not understand the damage that a pedophile can do emotionally, they are ignorant and that is part of the problem. They have no clue and no compassion. I think that any pastor should have had training in the basics of the compassion of Jesus before he is allowed to serve. Of course, one would think that a pastor's heart would reveal such things anyway, but apparently not. Then again, we have pastors who have never been to Bible college or seminary, so who knows where they get their "compassion" when dealing with these situations - it is not inherrent with them for some reason? Of course Steve Gaines has his doctorate and 20+ years experience, so he has no excuse other than he just doesn't care.
I noticed in the report Sunday night that they referred to the son as an "adolescent" - I dare say an 11 year old child is a few years from being an "adolescent". It was almost like there was an undercurrent of blame toward the victim - and I pray I am wrong. I understood he was in the congregation. He has a lot of strength to be able to face what he has faced. We should all be so strong.
NASS
Thanks for the link.
SOTL
Mark and Josh did a wonderful job.
I'm so pleased that they were able to address the media for us!
We love you guys! :)
Generally speaking, I think we tend to automatically think that if a person is in a ministry position, he/she is there because of their love for and obedience to the Lord and His calling of him/her to that position. Our assumptions are not always correct, clearly. One would hope that this is the case for those in ministry, but to always assume this is the case is probably not wise. :)
Some comments that Sister Pam shared and other comments about scripture have just captured my heart.
Please go and read these scriptures and remember that context is everything:
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is PROFITABLE for doctrine, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for instruction in righteousness."
2 Timothy 3:16
"Have NO FELLOWSHIP with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather EXPOSE them." Ephesian 5:11
Christ comes to us wrapped in biblical teaching which is doctrine (doctrine is just another word for 'teaching'). How many times did Christ say, "It is Written."
Is the Word of God something you love, or is it a good thing, but not so important to you?
Ask yourself that, and you will know if the Holy Spirit abides within you.
Magnify His Name.
Hey I have good news.
I was told tonight by another BBC'er that someone that had always been pro SG has totally flipped.
And guess what? her husband is a deacon.
And these folks are M A D !!!!!
Mad because there is no accountability ( DUH)
I say, welcome aboard, what took you so long???
Better late than never :)
Bereans,
I just don't know the answer to that question.
But i am told that many more deacons are starting to question why there is no accountability.
We need for these men to be strong, and pray that they won't get the Mark Sharpe/Richard Emmerson treatment.
And speaking of MS and RE, Let me just say that I am so proud of these two men for taking a stand for the truth so early on.
It's much easier to stand for truth when you have others with you, it's much more difficult when you stand alone.
But right is still right if no one is doing it,and wrong is still wrong if everyone is doing it.
bereans,
I have not heard of anyone changing their postition, but what I have heard is that a lot of people who are normally vocal have suddenly gone quiet.
I guess we could take that as a sign??
Has anyone heard that Harry Smith resigned from the Love Worth Finding board?
Is this true?
Re: Mark Sharpe and Josh Manning.
The interviews were great, just not long enough:)
I really feel for these guys, they have lost a lot for making a stand for truth and accountability. Who would have thought that this kind of conduct and scandal would have happened at BBC? We were spoiled into complacency by the integrity of Dr Rogers. The Lord is opening many eyes now - I think that is why He allowed Steve Gaines to become our pastor - to show us the sin in the camp. If Steve Gaines had not raised so many red flags, we may have never found out about Paul Williams and the lack of integrity within the leadership. For that I am thankful to Almighty God. Romans 8:28 comes to mind.
Time to close for tonight.
Good night all!
ace,
You have been banned PERMANENTLY from posting here. Here is your explanation: You have abused the privilege repeatedly, you have "apologized" over and over, and yet you come back here merely to stir up dissention. It's time for you to go.
Now, what part of that do you not understand?
NBBCOF
NBBCOF,
Now, what part of that do you not understand?
I just don't understand why you are censoring me. Like I said, I had a change of heart. I will not post anything that could be .0001% insulting. Please show forgiveness as you will already notice I am not here to stir up trouble.
People complain that Bellevue doesn't give "the other side" a voice - how is this blog any different?
Yes, mom, I, too, want to commend Josh Manning. He is a very wise young man. I am impressed with him every time I hear him speak.
I would hope that my son ( 15) would one day stand for truth like these 3 men have done. All 3 have done their mama's proud.
The Truth Has A Power All Its' Own
ace,
Is your "change of heart" why you just sent me an intimidating e-mail? Shall I share it with "the guys"?
NBBCOF
mom4 said:
If Steve Gaines had not raised so many red flags, we may have never found out about Paul Williams and the lack of integrity within the leadership. For that I am thankful to Almighty God. Romans 8:28 comes to mind.
response:
THAT'S THE TRUTH!!!!! Amen Sister!
Nass,
Do share.
Could Ace be Billie Tapp?
LOLOL!!! just kidding!
Ace complaining about being removed from the blog: People complain that Bellevue doesn't give "the other side" a voice - how is this blog any different? "
Blogs are free. Start one. Oh, I think you did...
By the way, there are many from the other side who make their presence very well known. You are represented here.
NBBCOF,
Is your "change of heart" why you just sent me an intimidating e-mail? Shall I share it with "the guys"?
It wasn't intimidating. I am just sharing with you what some people emailed me. I am trying to be friendly and give you a heads up. I didn't know that was wrong.
Please feel free to post the email, but if you do so, keep this message up and don't delete it.
You there "Thing 2"? I'm ready when you are...
Thing 1, I am here. Hold your fire. Get in position.
The word Minister:
Greek hyperetes (literally, “under-rower”), a personal attendant on a superior, thus of the person who waited on the officiating priest in the synagogue ( Luke 4:20 ). It is applied also to John Mark, the attendant on Paul and Barnabas ( Acts 13:5 ).
Ministers are 'servants'
Fire away, things. Hardly anybody is around tonight anyway.
Have fun!
NBBCOF
Thing 1.... T-minus 5 minutes!
Top 10 most outrageous statements I've heard regarding events at BBC:
10. It was just an itty-bitty fence.
9. There's nothing wrong at Bellevue, except for that website.
8. The reason I don't preach on Wednesday nights is that I have children.
7. I don't know. . .I don't know. . .I don't know.
6. It was a mistake of the head, not of the heart.
5. moral failure
4. We didn't know how to handle this situation; we were in uncharted waters
3. No, no, no, and no
2. You are like Hezbollah
1. I'd like to remain as your pastor
Anyone else have nominations for the list of most outrageous statements?
Folks...you just must read this.
Ima
New BBC Open Forum said...
Fire away, things. Hardly anybody is around tonight anyway.
Have fun!
I am really looking forward to this. Or maybe not.....
....so you enabled moderating comments? We'll be back....we'll be back....
This could quite possibly be my last post here. In the past I have been called a troublemaker myself for trying to get clear, straight verified answers from some of you for your posts.
I have not posted on this blog in many days. This blog, for the most part, seems to be more about being right than about anything else to me. I think both sides have some apologies to make to each other. There is no conversation on this blog anymore, it has only become I am right, you are wrong.
I also think that secretly tape recording someone else is a lowly cowardly thing to do. I think the way you have ganged up on S. Coombs is terrible also. I think the way people are censored is weak. I think to assume that someone on here has changed their screen name to post is probably true.
Personally I do not want a letter from the IDC group, and the main reason for that is the attitudes people pushing for it has shown and if I get one, I will probably mark it for return to sender. You speak of arrogance from BBC leadership, yet you do not think it is shown here from all sides? Anytime you end a post with "Duh” that loses creditability in my opinion. I was talking with some I really respect the other day about this blog. He had nothing good to say about it and the reason he said that, was that Christians should build each other up. Disagreements are fine, but this blog, which may have had good intentions when it started, has really gone downhill in my opinion.
I wish you each the best. I will continue to pray for BBC, the BBC leadership, the members, and I will continue to support my pastor. Again these are my opinions. Good night and Rest well
Memphis
Well I see the blog's still here...ace, you've been a bad boy...I thought you were banned from this forum...and what exactly is a thing1 and thing2?..is cousin It anywhere around? tsk tsk
I have been lurking here since September. At first, I wasn't sure what to believe. However, as I began to listen to BOTH sides, I began to realize that there were many instances where the Word was not and is not being followed. My problems with BBC are not about music or service arrangement, or anything else. My problem is that I DON'T TRUST the senior pastor to follow the Word. He did not in the PW case, how do I know he'll follow it in the future, when he finds himself in a tight spot? AR often said that you couldn't give him enough money to disobey Jesus for even one day. It just wasn't worth it. I want to know and believe that the pastor I listen to every Sunday, the pastor I allow my children to listen to believes there is nothing or no one better in the whole world that Jesus and His Holy Word. Sorry SG supporters! But, for you to say "let's forgive and move on" means you're willing to accept less than THE ENTIRE WORD OF GOD! I can't do that. We as the body of Christ and BBC deserve a humble man who desires God's Word above himself, above his family, above anything or anyone on the face of the earth. Jesus desired us that much, why should I expect any less than that from the undershepherd, my pastor? Either you believe the Word, or you don't. Either you obey the Word or you don't. There are no half-way measures with God and there are NO, let me say that again, NO, gray areas with God!!!
Dear WoundedandBleeding,
I question why they would be calling to ask if you & your husband wanted to be removed from the roll. They can't just purge their rolls b/c someone hasn't come in a while. At least, that's what my husband and I have been told. We teach a s.s. class that has many, many, many members on the roll who haven't been in all the time we have been in the class, (almost 4 yrs now). BBC keeps people on the roll unless they receive a letter requesting the person's name be removed (moved membership, member requested removal of name.) I would suspect this was a polite way of saying "get in line or maybe you should go somewhere else."
Ladies and Gentlemen:
This is the first of several e-mails the new and improved Mr. Ace sent me tonight.
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Mr. Ace
To: notastepford_sheep
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:46:02 PM
Subject: Important
Hello,
I have inside info on something that is about to happen to your blog. Please address me and I will share with you what is about to happen....you would want to know this.
If you do not send a response to me I cannot contact with you with further info therefore whatever is going to happen to your blog is out of my hands.
-Ace
And the second... after I replied saying simply, "I'm replying. What is your problem?"
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Mr. Ace
To: notastepford_sheep
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:57:02 PM
Subject: Re: Important
I do not have a problem, I just don't understand why you tell me I have to apologize in my next post or all my posts will be deleted...I apologize sincerely and you delete it....I apologize even more sincerely, you keep that post up and delete everything that follows. I followed your instructions, but you are not keeping your side of the deal.
I did not say anything offensive on Sunday night. I asked if Sick was wearing her wire when David laughed at her....since she said she was going to be wearing her recording device....it was an honest question. Will you show forgiveness and allow me to post again? Please?
As for the important info, your blog is going to be attacked tonight by some immature people. They told me it was because of me not being able to post anymore...in defense of me. again, I told them not to that because we shouldn't stoop that low but they aren't listening... I will continue to talk to them but I'm not sure they will listen. Just giving you a heads up.
A reply would be much appreciated.
-ace, the helpful hardware place
Sorry for the temporary moderation. Ace's little troll friends (or maybe just ace all by himself) decided to play dirty. So when they started I turned on moderation temporarily as a precaution.
You know, it's pathetic (as ace would say) how so-called Christians can behave in such an unChristlike way. If ace is an example of the mindset of the majority of Bellevue members (and I'm not saying he is nor do I believe he is), then Bellevue is already too far gone to be "saved." And that would be... so sad.
I'll now post the waiting comments. I apologize for the inconvenience.
NBBCOF
That's it NASS,
BBCOF is going to turn into a pumpkin.
trollcates wrote:
"BBCOF is going to turn into a pumpkin."
I think it already did! LOL!
Yes, folks. Blogger messed up the blog. It's been pestering me to convert to the new version of Blogger (which is out of the beta phase but shouldn't be), so finally last night I went ahead and did so, mainly so that the search feature would be available. Well, it worked BUT it changed over half your screen names to "anonymous"!
Come to find out, after the fact, that this is a known issue in the "new and improved" Blogger. See this for the gory details. Whether there's a fix or not remains to be seen, but in the meantime you may want to put your screen name at the top of each comment.
My apologies for the inconvenience.
NBBCOF
My dear brothers and sisters in Christ,
This is a difficult post for me to write. However, I have been approached since Sunday night by those who are asking "where I stand" in regard to the investigative report, the pastor, and the other issues facing our church. I would like to make several statements as an explanation and answer to those questions. In advance, I ask you to forgive the length.
I had already been convicted over the weekend to search my own heart regarding my attitudes when posting on this forum, and I have written personal apologies to several of you in an effort to be reconciled to those I have previously offended. If there is anyone else who has been hurt personally by my argumentativeness and "snippiness" over the last few months, please get in touch with me so I can attempt to make this right with you. My email address is now in my profile.
What I believe we should "be about" as a church family at this time …
One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to draw the conclusion that our membership is already polarized into opposing camps and schools of thought and understanding. There aren't just "two groups," the "pro-pulpit" and "pro-pew" -- indeed we have the "ostriches," the "anti-Warrenists," the "truth at all costs," the "peace at all costs," the "unbelievers," the "consequentialists," the "gracists," the genuine abuse victims, the "scrolling by's," the "comments deleted by blog administrator" group, the "I-heard-it-from-a-reliable-sources," the "Well-so-did-I's," and several others. Some of us have membership credentials in more than one group and we find ourselves at times changing identities so fast we can't keep up with who we really are.
We all believe we are right and are standing on what we believe to be the correct interpretation of God's Word, but there is no one group that is 100% right.
There is a need at Bellevue, above all, for reconciliation. The whole idea behind this concept is that there is a difference of opinion or a division between which bridges can be built in order to find a harmonious place where we can all live at peace with one another. God has reconciled us, as sinful doomed sinners, to Himself with the ultimate sacrifice of His Son -- but we are to then live out the process of reconciliation as we walk and work here below. We are to be about the work of reconciling a lost world to God through salvation and the teaching of God's Word, but we are also to be about the work of reconciliation between brothers and sisters.
"So from now on, we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf. Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Corinthians 5:16-21
The challenge of the ministry of reconciliation, as applies to our church's situation, as I see it, is that we need to work together to find a way to forgive, to love, and to work toward more effective ministry and growth in the Lord through the power of the Holy Spirit. In order for this to be accomplished, we must all be willing to give, forgive, yield to, love, extend grace, and honor each other.
I have said before that I believe not only that God forgives us when we sin (1 John 1:9), but that part of His work of cleansing us and giving us grace also sometimes includes the mitigation of what our consequences might have been had we not confessed and repented. Most of the passages I have found in Scripture that talk about judgment and consequences of sin apply to those who are unregenerate. The procedure of justification and sanctification for the Christian is a different walk altogether. In fact, the 2 Corinthians passage cited above clearly states that God, in reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, is not counting men's sins against them. This speaks of the creation of a clean slate. Yes, there are consequences of any sin in a temporal sense, or in terms of the laws of "cause and effect." But God is a great God and He can do anything -- even change the outcome of our actions if our confession and repentance are genuine and the amelioration of our consequences pleases Him and fits His plan for our lives. Yes, He calls us to holiness and perfection (Matthew 5:48, Ephesians 1:4) … but God created us and knows us intimately, and He understands that we fall and fall frequently. It is a process, one lasting a lifetime until He takes us to heaven to be with Jesus.
So under grace, does this mean I sin, I confess, I repent, I still pay the consequences of what it was that I did, and then when I die, God gives me eternal life free from punishment? I believe the Bible teaches more than that. I believe grace means that we find a way to live peaceably with each other and under the watchful and omniscient eye of a Holy God despite our sin. By the power of God, and by living in an atmosphere of grace, we are equipped to have that kind of life with each other. And if God could accomplish that through us, would we not then appear to others as truly "in the world, but not of it"?
And what does it take to be able to give this kind of grace to someone who has done wrong in our eyes or to one who has offended us? It takes being like Jesus. We are never more like Him than when we completely restore someone by extending our grace to them. May I be on my face and in His Word, seeking what "being like Jesus" really means. May I truly learn (let Him teach me) how to be "less of me, more of Thee" in how I treat others.
The "dual nature" of God and of man …
Scripture is clear that there are many sides to God's nature, but the two that give us the most difficulty are His righteous judgment as balanced against His Divine mercy. In our finite minds, it is so difficult to understand how He can be and demand and deliver both.
The situation at Bellevue has brought out this dual nature in many of us, as well. There are issues which make us cry out for justice … but then there are other issues where mercy and grace are needed even more if there is ever to be healing for anyone. We reflect our Maker's image when we show these two sides of ourselves. The only problem is … we're human, and sometimes it's difficult, if not impossible, to issue both justice and mercy simultaneously, because we are not God.
When we try to do that which is God's to do (imparting judgment and consequences, for example, Romans 12:19), we make things even harder for ourselves and others. Our business, according to God's Word, is to be about love and reconciliation.
The only solution I have found to this dilemma in my own heart is found in Romans 13:
"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not covet,' and whatever other commands there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Romans 13:8-10
A hallmark of LOVE …
"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." John 13:34
Everyone knows when we are not being loving toward one another. Lost people who watch the local news know, so do we, and especially so does God.
So the question has arisen on this blog: What exactly IS love? Some maintain that love includes holding people accountable for their actions, as we who are parents do in disciplining our children. After all, "whom the Lord loveth, He chasteneth." (Hebrews 12:6) Others are of the "forgive and forget" mentality, equating forgiveness with the absolute removal of consequences.
THIS is love:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
But do you ever feel like the Christian life is an extended case of "opposite day?" What I mean is, there seem to be so many different definitions and interpretations of what "love" means -- what we expect in loving behavior from others ends up not at all resembling what we expected. It doesn't feel like love. Yet they continue to express that they "really do love us." Pardon me, but, "yeah … right!"
Those who have been abused know this dichotomy up close and personal. Abusers often perpetrate their evil while making all kinds of declarations of love, or their apologies after their violence is spent are couched in loving and affectionate phrases, all the while promising to "never do it again."
We must define love as the Bible defines it, lest our love for others be just as abusive. John 3:16, Romans 5:8, the love chapter cited above, 1 John 4:7-21, and others. God's love and ours should feel like love and look like love by those who are supposed to be receiving it.
So … we're left with unanswered questions, right?
Right. Here are a few:
What is the answer for people, including dear friends of mine, who have been sexually abused? Should they try to remain at Bellevue under the current circumstances? How?
Should there be consequences for ministers who mishandled the PW situation?
Can we have confidence in leadership if we don't now?
Should we continue the push for "transparency" through extra-church measures?
Should I continue to post on this blog and others?
How do we handle incidents where the conflict between us ends up separating friends, family members, and long-time brethren?
What does one do if they feel like children are at risk in any way?
Will a church-wide business meeting be the solution, a step toward a solution, or will it create even more problems than already exist?
Should church members be talking to the media?
Should legal relief be sought by anyone?
There are others.
My answer, albeit a simplistic one, is: Love and reconciliation. How that is worked out over time remains to be seen, but I honestly believe that if we keep those two words in our minds at all times, God can begin to manifest His healing to us and through us.
I will not post on this board again unless I can do so in a spirit of love and reconciliation. I will not post to argue, and I will not post to defend myself for statements I have made. I will, however, do and say whatever I can to facilitate healing and reconciliation within our church fellowship.
I love you all and I am praying blessings and peace on your day. May God grant us all a sense of His presence as we work constructively to find His perfect will for our own lives and for our beloved church.
Miriam Wilmoth
aka "maybejustmaybe" -- no longer anonymous
Heavenly Father,
I pledge allegiance
to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic
for which it stands
one nation
under you
with liberty and justice
for all.
Heavenly Father,
Please help us follow the Ten Commandments, even in our hearts. Help us to read today's text from the Bible (USA english) ("thou shalt" english).
Father,
You've given me the opportunity to visit: New York, London, Paris, Athens, Jersualem, Moscow, Bombay, Beijing, Honolulu, and Los Angeles.
Father,
It it with total truth that I can speak to anyone and say that Memphis, TN loves your Son, Jesus Christ, better than any of these places.
Father,
In my humble opinion:
Memphis, TN...
...is ****the best city on earth****.
Please let the Great Commission move forward today in Brazil. In Jesus's name, Amen.
Thank you for this thread, "Today's Media Coverage - January 30, 2007"
anonymous,
one more,
11. If you don't like it, leave.
Good Morning anonymouses!!! LOL
At least with the NEW Blogger, I have my OWN little trash can, and can DELETE my own posts.
Mr. Charlie Fox,
Good morning. This indeed is a day that The LORD Jesus has made and we will rejoice and be glad in it. Praise be to His Holy Name both now and forevermore.
We are hoping you can tell us how it is that the post name on our entry of yesterday morning at 10:14 a.m. (Our post name is "Come, LORD Jesus"!) is now gone and replaced with
"Anonymous"? It was our first time to post on the blog. Was this why our post name was replaced with "Anonymous"? We hope you can fill us in, Mr. Fox.
Thank you so very much.
Sincerely in The LORD and ONLY Savior Jesus Christ,
Stephen and Bonita Ann Richie
www.livinghopeinjesus.com
Stephen and Bonita Ann Richie,
This was posted at 3:38AM.
New BBC Open Forum said...
Yes, folks. Blogger messed up the blog. It's been pestering me to convert to the new version of Blogger (which is out of the beta phase but shouldn't be), so finally last night I went ahead and did so, mainly so that the search feature would be available. Well, it worked BUT it changed over half your screen names to "anonymous"!
Come to find out, after the fact, that this is a known issue in the "new and improved" Blogger. See this for the gory details. Whether there's a fix or not remains to be seen, but in the meantime you may want to put your screen name at the top of each comment.
My apologies for the inconvenience.
NBBCOF
Thanks, Mr. Fox!!!
Have a glorious and blessed day in Jesus!
Stephen and Bonita Ann Richie
Living Hope In Jesus
www.livinghopeinjesus.com
testing
Testing....
Praise the Lord!
I have a trash can!!!!
(Piglet turning cartwheels...)
Less work for you, NASS.
This is a test - only a test.
Can you hear me now???
Oh yeh, you never could.
I have been reading with horror at what is going on at BBC. I pray that the truth will come out and that the pruning that needs to take place in your church will be swift so that the body can produce fruit.
The one thing that I do not understand about this minister being allowed to continue to be a part of the church in his position or as a participant in the church services if children are present.
It is my understanding that once a pedophile is known, the consequences of this sin is that they are not to ever be allowed access to children again. Don't they have to keep a distance in TN?
I live in Alabama, but I am not from Gardendale and have never been a member at the church that SG came from.
Having lived with the horror of dealing with youth that have been molested and seeing the LONG battles they face, I can not begin to understand SG allowing this to go on for so long. If he were my minister, he would get a no confidence vote.
Blessings on your healing and restoring your wonderful church.
Linda
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