Sunday, August 05, 2007

Sign It or Yer Out!


At a recent coaches' meeting BBC's volunteer coaches were given the following documents to fill out and sign and told that it would be mandatory if they wished to continue coaching.

The
first document includes the Basic Application, the Leadership Covenant, a Background Information sheet, and a Volunteer Authorization/Consent & Release form. It is obvious from the wording of the "Leadership Covenant" that it was written for use with Sunday School teachers and other workers.

The
second document includes the Coaches Covenant and a sheet concerning Biblical Peacemaking.

Finally, attached was a
copy of A Summary of Your Rights Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Can we assume this means there will be credit checks, too?

In this day and age I don't think anyone who's going to work with minors should object to a criminal background check, but the "loyalty oath" and checking members' giving records is too much. The latter has already been happening for some time. People have already been "called on the carpet" for not giving as much as Steve Gaines thought they should. I wonder if it's ever occurred to him that some people drop cash in the collection plate. So how does he know people aren't tithing 10%? And even if he knows how much someone gives, how does he know how much someone makes? They've got your Social Security number and a signed release to do what? Check with your bank?

Of all the red flags that were raised as I read through these documents (and they were legion), the one that stood out the most was this one:

"I waive any right that I may have to inspect references provided on my behalf."

So if a background check shows something in someone's past that is questionable, and the person questions it, he is waiving his right to ever see the information? Think about the implications of that!

Recent numbers I saw revealed that the number of Sunday School classes at BBC for 8th through 12th graders for the coming year has been reduced from 126 to 75. That's a decrease of 40% and a loss of 102 teachers (two per class). At that time they were still short 30 teachers or about 20% of the number needed. Perhaps if this is accurate, there has been a similar reduction in the number of youth participating in sports. So maybe by requiring the coaches to sign these covenants and other agreements they're weeding out the "dissenters" while reducing the staff to the actual number of coaches needed. It would certainly ensure that only the "loyal" remain.

This comment was left by "junkster" in this thread and deserves highlighting:

From the BBC Volunteer Application, last page (Volunteer Authorization/Consent & Release):

I FURTHER AUTHORIZE ALL GOVERNMENTAL, LAW ENFORCEMENT, LICENSE AND RECORD-KEEPING AGENCIES AND ANY OTHER SOURCE TO PROVIDE ALL INFORMATION REQUESTED WITH RESPECT TO MY BACKGROUND, INCLUDING CRIMINAL RECORDS, TO BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH AND/OR ITS AGENT, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO PROTECT MY MINISTRY AND/OR BLUE LINE INVESTIGATION.

Note the words "record keeping agencies and any other source." Signing this form authorizes BBC to do a credit/financial check. From such checks it is easy to determine one's income, which can then be used to check tithing records (assuming donations are not given anonymously, which they usually aren't, so people can claim them as charitable donations on their tax deductions.)

But even scarier is that signing this would authorize BBC to collect background information from any source, including, in theory, your school records, traffic tickets, video rentals, library records, medical history, psychological/psychiatric history, etc. I doubt that just because I signed a church document my doctors would share my medical records with my church without checking with me first, but my point is that, legally speaking, by signing that document I'd be authorizing pretty much anything. It would not be wise or prudent to sign that sort of release, for a church or for anyone.


Sunday School teachers, staff members, ushers, choir and orchestra members, and... déjà vu, deacons... all beware. Your day is coming! Choose you this day whom you will serve!

626 comments:

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noblindfaith said...

I haven't visited here in a while, but like a daytime soap opera, the story line and cast of characters does not require frequent viewing.
The sad situation at Bellevue is mine no more, as we have settled at
Faith Baptist with many others.
Mrs. Rogers has visited at least twice recently, stating GBC was just so far away.
We left BBC. We are not refugees, as refugees long for a return home.
We left BBC because it was not a peaceful place to worship any more.
We left BBC because of the
leadership, not just SG.
Baptists don't need Bellevue, and I am not certain Bellevue wants "Baptists".

May God Bless your efforts.

Becky said...

Hello Andrew! Thank you for those words of encouragement.

Don't forget you said you would catch up later.

oc said...

3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;

4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

oc says:
a reminder for me.

Just sayin'.
oc.

oc said...

Philippians Chapter 2.

Sorry. :)

Junkster said...

be-still-and-know said...
That oppressive feeling may be easily explained. Did you hear the rustle of wings? Or see a fleeting shadow cross your path? The swirling battle may be so much closer than we think…Some may even be feeling the claws on their backs and hot sulfuric breath on their necks…

I'm not sure if you were speaking generally (about times when we encounter an oppressive sensation) or specifically (in regard to reading "the other blog"). But I'm hoping it was the former and not the latter.

I don't agree with certain attitudes expressed in things some folks write over there, but then I don't agree with everything I read on this blog (and the attitudes sometimes expresssed), either. I don't always like my own attitudes, for that matter, and I'm sure I've written things that others disagree with, or that I myself might later realize were not right.

Although I may think someone to be seriously wrong, I wouldn't presume to assume that those I disagree with, on that blog or this one, are agents of (or under the influence of) evil spirits. Just because I dislike or disagree with what someone says or how they say it doesn't mean they are (or I am) being influenced by demons. It really is possible for people to have serious differences of opinion, even to the point of each side of the conflict to think that the opposite side is totally outside of the will of God, and yet for the people on both sides to in reality be decent, thoughtful, caring, dedicated followers of Christ.

I know some folks won't like me saying that. But in the midst of differences between two groups both claiming to be followers of Christ, it should not be that a non-Christian should be the only person calling for civility and measured tone even while standing for principles. (No offense, Cakes; I'm glad that you are encouraging folks to be kind. I'm "just sayin'" that those of us who claim to be followers of Christ should also encourage each other to act like it.)

concernedSBCer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
concernedSBCer said...

Junk: Now you've gone from preachin' right into meddlin.'
:)

Seriously, I think we all try to speak in as kind a manner as possible, and I know I have tried to reason with some in the past to no avail. I've even tried to "agree to disagee" but was still made fun of and ridiculed because of a difference of opinion. However, you are right in that we are always witnesses and as such must guard our words.

I admit I find it impossible to believe that some could be so cavalier towards God's Word and plan as to not see the problems in leadership at BBC and in the SBC. I take it very personally when whole sections of scripture are taken out of context, and I see folks being led astray. The "other blog" (when I've gone over there) seems to aim barbs more at people than at issues. That bothers me.

gopher said...

A article about the artist who did Bellevue's pastors portraits

here

Notice what is said about Steve Gaines by Jim Barnwell:

"Length of service may be the key to Gaines' permanent portrayal on Bellevue's walls. Jim Barnwell, director of communications for the church, said, "At an APPROPRIATE (emphasis added) time in the future the Historical Committee will update the portraits to include Dr. Gaines.""

Becky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Becky said...

Does this mean they will commission the portrait at a later date, or consider at a later date whether or not to include his portrait?
Length of service or not, he is BBC's pastor. His portrait should be up there. Steve Gaines is part of the history of the church.

Lynn said...

Churchmouse said...

Does this mean they will commission the portrait at a later date, or consider at a later date whether or not to include his portrait?
Length of service or not, he is BBC's pastor. His portrait should be up there. Steve Gaines is part of the history of the church.

9:50 AM, August 12, 2007

A part of history that I would rather forget! :(

Becky said...

lynn said:
A part of history that I would rather forget! :(

reply: Me too. I would like to forget, but we need to remember this. There is a lesson for us here somewhere.

Lwood said...

HELP!!!!!!!Am I having illusions from my depression or what???Did anyone read the commercial appeal MEMPHIS MOST special for church chiors on page 6.....DUHHHHHHHHHHH

Lynn said...

which section is that in?

Lwood said...

Lynn said...
which section is that in?


That was the special book section on the best of everthing in Memphis. From the read on BBC chior I think I will skip the rest of the best in Memphis....

David Hall said...

Concerned,

I cannot fathom widespread support for Gaines, but I cannot assume that everyone that still does isn't acting upon some hope or fear, some weakness of will to make hard choices that would affect their relationships, personal or otherwise, or simply in denial; thus deserving of some compassion.

One can stand their ground and not go so far as provocative remarks insinuating that those loyal to leadership support there being a pedophile on staff, or the Padre's non-action. Such discourse will not convince them otherwise, and very well may embolden their resolve that we are all crackpots and troublemakers.

Let's win-over those on the fence with firm, measured and reasoned arguments, not run them out of here on a rail with impetuous and inflamed emotion.

You know that, as a survivor of abuse myself, I am sympathetic to the outrage of those of us here who have been victimized in a myriad of ways by the leadership and the majority's apathy or acquiesence, yet I won't jump to conclusions about them.

I still return to Gautama's reason--those that spit on me are not spitting on me, rather their concept of me, and thus they are actually spitting upon their own mind. I know it is from another spiritual path, but I believe there is wisdom and context for anyone, be they a victim of sexual abuse or a truthseeker persecuted for making the tough choice of holding Bellevue accountable.

Happy Lord's day, my friends--I hope you have found loving and substantive fellowship.

Lwood said...

chior....Sorry about that choir.Fingers not working right this a.m..

Most Uplifting Choir
Winner:Bellevue Baptist Church
It is only fitting that the largest church in town has one of the biggest choirs.Every Sunday, the 400-person strong Bellevue Baptist Church Sanctuary Choir performs in two services backed by a 100-person orchestra. Performing a mix of traditional and nontraditional music,the choir,led by minister of music Jamie Parker, has been known to move people as strongly as the service.
It's fun to preach after them,"says Belleveu Baptist pastor Dr. Steve Gaines." "A lot of times when I take the pulpit, the congregation is standing giving an ovation for what they've just heard..
2000 Appling Road in Cordove,347-2000;

Memphis Most magazine from the commercial appeal...page 6
8-12-07

concernedSBCer said...

Cakes said: "I cannot fathom widespread support for Gaines, but I cannot assume that everyone that still does isn't acting upon some hope or fear, some weakness of will to make hard choices that would affect their relationships, personal or otherwise, or simply in denial; thus deserving of some compassion."

Agreed. :) I hope they have found some from me through reasoned posts and kind words. I know that's the prayer of most all of us. We are brothers and sisters in Christ regardless.

Lynn said...

Lwood said...

chior....Sorry about that choir.Fingers not working right this a.m..

Most Uplifting Choir
Winner:Bellevue Baptist Church
It is only fitting that the largest church in town has one of the biggest choirs.Every Sunday, the 400-person strong Bellevue Baptist Church Sanctuary Choir performs in two services backed by a 100-person orchestra. Performing a mix of traditional and nontraditional music,the choir,led by minister of music Jamie Parker, has been known to move people as strongly as the service.
It's fun to preach after them,"says Belleveu Baptist pastor Dr. Steve Gaines." "A lot of times when I take the pulpit, the congregation is standing giving an ovation for what they've just heard..
2000 Appling Road in Cordove,347-2000;

Memphis Most magazine from the commercial appeal...page 6
8-12-07

11:48 AM, August 12, 2007

The Bull Detectors just went off here. Those numbers seem to be inflated more than Enron's financial statements, especially lately.

sheeplessatbbc said...

"Length of service may be the key to Gaines' permanent portrayal on Bellevue's walls. Jim Barnwell, director of communications for the church, said, "At an APPROPRIATE (emphasis added) time in the future the Historical Committee will update the portraits to include Dr. Gaines.""

6:58 AM, August 12, 2007


This is the most encouraging bit of news I've heard come out of the mouth of any of our leadership lately.

Can we hope that Steve Gaines portrait will NEVER hang in the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church.

Maybe there is some discernment within leadership.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Churchmouse said...
Steve Gaines is part of the history of the church.

9:50 AM, August 12, 2007


HISTORY, and the sooner the BETTER!

Lynn said...

Sheepless,

I agree with you. However, I'm skeptical about that though.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Lynn,

JMHO, I think if Steve Gaines could have anything to do with it the portrait would already have been there.

It could be titled "The man who split Bellevue Baptist Church" and did he do it well!

New BBC Open Forum said...

"It is only fitting that the largest church in town has one of the biggest choirs. Every Sunday, the 400-person strong Bellevue Baptist Church Sanctuary Choir performs in two services backed by a 100-person orchestra."

How many years ago was that written? I would estimate they had perhaps 120 in the choir in the 9:30 service this morning, maybe 100 in the 11:00 service, and there were a lot of the same faces in both. It was more difficult to count heads in the orchestra, but I'd estimate perhaps 25-30. (Note to Carter T. -- Please turn down your mike! Eeeeeeeeee!!!)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Someone sent me these "marks of a minister" that we've witnessed in Steve Gaines. How many of these will be covered in tonight's sermon of the same title?

1. Arrogance
2. Attitude
3. Anger

1. Bad behavior
2. Belligerence
3. Big benefits

1. Commands
2. Coercion
3. Conflicts

Junkster said...

Churchmouse said...
lynn said:
A part of history that I would rather forget! :(

reply: Me too. I would like to forget, but we need to remember this. There is a lesson for us here somewhere.


"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana

Junkster said...

sheeplessatbbc said...
"Length of service may be the key to Gaines' permanent portrayal on Bellevue's walls. Jim Barnwell, director of communications for the church, said, "At an APPROPRIATE (emphasis added) time in the future the Historical Committee will update the portraits to include Dr. Gaines.""

6:58 AM, August 12, 2007


This is the most encouraging bit of news I've heard come out of the mouth of any of our leadership lately.

Can we hope that Steve Gaines portrait will NEVER hang in the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church.

Maybe there is some discernment within leadership.


I think the operative word in the quote from Jim Barnwell is "will". The only thing to be determined is the "appropriate" time. It's a done deal. It's also convenient for the powers that be that the artist who did the other portraits is not among those who have chosen to leave BBC.

Junkster said...

Performing a mix of traditional and nontraditional music, the choir, led by minister of music Jamie Parker, has been known to move people as strongly as the service. "It's fun to preach after them," says Belleveu Baptist pastor Dr. Steve Gaines." "A lot of times when I take the pulpit, the congregation is standing giving an ovation for what they've just heard."

Oh, so that's what the standing O's were for!

P.S. What does "the choir ... has been known to move people as strongly as the service" mean? Isn't the music & singing part of the service? Does the Commercial Appeal have any religion writers who understand Christianity and churches?

sheeplessatbbc said...

Junkster,

Let's hope the "appropriate time" never comes.

Maybe, just maybe, there will be a volcano to ERUPT.

sheeplessatbbc said...

"It's fun to preach after them," says Belleveu Baptist pastor Dr. Steve Gaines."

Talk about operative words, since when was preaching about "fun"?

Lynn said...

sheeplessatbbc said...

"It's fun to preach after them," says Belleveu Baptist pastor Dr. Steve Gaines."

Talk about operative words, since when was preaching about "fun"?

2:42 PM, August 12, 2007

I have more fun getting a root canal done.

New BBC Open Forum said...

The title of tonight's sermon is actually "Marks of a Christian Minister." Isn't "Christian minister" redundant?

minister

noun

"One who is authorized to perform religious functions in a Christian church, especially a Protestant church."

New BBC Open Forum said...

Has anyone heard anything about the teachers' meeting(s)?

oc said...

NASS said, in part,

minister

noun

"One who is authorized to perform religious functions in a Christian church, especially a Protestant church."

oc says:
I may have just figured something out. Maybe the problem is that some have been 'nouning' it, instead of 'verbing' it.

Just a thought.
oc.

New BBC Open Forum said...

sheepless wrote:

"Talk about operative words, since when was preaching about 'fun'?"

When you're getting paid what SG is to do it?

New BBC Open Forum said...

oc,

Very good point.

Lynn said...

oc says:
I may have just figured something out. Maybe the problem is that some have been 'nouning' it, instead of 'verbing' it.

Just a thought.
oc.


In the immortal words of Jim Rome...Rack It! Good Point OC.

gmommy said...

What HAS been APPROPRIATE
since SG has been a minister at BBC??????

the way JP was introduced before JW barely finished saying he was leaving??

the way the the Rogers family was treated??

the way the finances have been handled??

the way our children and youth have been regarded???

the tacky garish signs??

the billboards with the wrong scriptures??

the 4th of July advertisements??
the commercials??
the display cases??

Need I continue???

Who pray tell, could possibly discern
WHAT IS APPROPRIATE at BBC????

Lynn said...

I think that blurb in the paper about the choir was probably done up by the resident spin doctor on staff...David Coombs.


Just my opinion.

Lynn

gmommy said...

MOVING people...
as much as the "service" ( would that be the preaching?)

FUN to preach...

STANDING O's

it's just all about FEELINGS.

Is this WORSHIP???

I had a babysitter once that had to have a
"crying blessing" or
be "drunk with the spirit" to think she had been to church.

Don't people get all fired up and emotional and excited at concerts???
As in Entertainment/Worldly/ Rock???

I personally don't believe
THE
King of Kings needs the hype.
JMO

MOM4 said...

gmommy said...
"Who pray tell, could possibly discern
WHAT IS APPROPRIATE at BBC????"

In SG, I believe what we are seeing is a mule in a horse harness.....no matter how much giddy-yup you holler, it's still just a mule (before you critics start yelling - I mean "not the real deal")

gmommy said...

mom4,
I fear SOMEHOW that will be perceived as something sinister and brought up in a sermon...

if BOWLING can be perceived as "clandestine meetings"
it's just all embarrassing....

sorry Cakes,
too cranky to be sweet today.

gmommy said...

There was a BBC SS teacher at Faith today that had been given the "forms" to sign at the meeting...
he had them with him and he was at Faith.

Did the leadership think more teachers would stay if they waited to give them out today??

anybody know????

MOM4 said...

gmommy,
I will remove it if you think it is offensive, but it won't change my feelings about him. Anyone that knows anything about him knows that he is not what he pretends to be. I believe last Sunday night's message was just a foretaste of what is yet to come, no matter what we say, he will twist it...it is his nature, and his heart. His true colors are beginning to show and before long, everyone will see him for what he is....

gmommy said...

mom4,
I do not think it was offensive.

Been Redeemed said...

mom4,
Wasn't that what Miss Scarlett's Mammie called Rhett? (of course that was before he bought her that red taffeta petticoat)

MOM4 said...

Why yes, Been!
How quick you did percieve my meaning! (But I won't be bribed so easily:)

gmommy said...

Sheepless,
Don't answer that stupid question!

the behavior and decisions of SG and his leadership tore the church up.

Man,WH,you'll play whatever side of the fence just to get the attention...sad.

concernedSBCer said...

and pathetic?

*sigh* Well, it was nice while it lasted!

gmommy said...

http://baptistblog.wordpress.com/

New BBC Open Forum said...

concernedsbcer,

Yeah, wasn't it. {sigh} Idiots.

New BBC Open Forum said...

gmommy,

I take it this is the post to which you were referring? LOLOLOL!!!

gmommy said...

The way I saw that is someone fussed at Wade about his assistant or someone else posting it !LOL

The internet just really bothers people that would prefer we stay ignorant!

johnthebaptist said...

led by minister of music Jamie Parker, has been known to move people as strongly as the service.


I do believe the Jamie Parker show featuring Steve Gaines has moved people so strongly... it moved them right out the door....not to return.

There isn't no where near 400 choir members or 100 in orchestra since JW left.

This must have been written by JP or DC. More propraganda

sickofthelies said...

How long is it going to take people to figure out that the choir does not have 400 members and the orchestra does not have 100 members?

Do they think that those left there can't count?

I wonder if they know that their intelligence has just been insulted?

Probly not.

oc said...

Interruption for a special news bulletin:

Went to watch our very own Lynn bowl.
While there, I watched him roll strikes, 6 or 7 in a row. He's quite a bowler.

Now, it's up to you conspiracy theorists to figure out if this was a clandestine meeting and all this is code, or if this is an actual, real life occurrence.

You never know, do you? :)

concernedSBCer said...

Everyone remember the significance of the numbers 6 and 7? Okay...please reset your special clandestine clocks.

New BBC Open Forum said...

SOTL wrote:

"How long is it going to take people to figure out that the choir does not have 400 members and the orchestra does not have 100 members?"

And how long before we stop hearing it's a 30,000-member church? According to David Coombs, as of June 30, 2007, church membership was 30,032. Of that number, 18,437 are "active" members (meaning not that they're all necessarily active but that their mail doesn't come back undeliverable). The rest, 11,595, are considered "inactive" members, meaning they cannot be located.

He explained that during the first 20 years or so Dr. Rogers was at BBC that the rolls were purged annually. However, that stopped about 11-12 years ago. Unless someone dies (and they know about it), or people formally move their membership or request their names be removed from the rolls, they are left on the rolls forever.

In reality, BBC is at most an 18,500-member church. But I guess 30,000 just sounds so much better. Never mind whether it's accurate. We can't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of bragging rights!

Junkster said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
In reality, BBC is at most an 18,500-member church. But I guess 30,000 just sounds so much better. Never mind whether it's accurate. We can't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of bragging rights!

Bragging rights is exactly it. This has been a common practice in Southern Baptist churches for decades, including BBC. If they ever purged the rolls annually, it was a lot longer than 11-12 years ago ... it was common knowledge that about half of Bellevue's membership could not be located when I moved to Memphis almost 25 years ago.

concernedSBCer said...

I can understand not being able to keep up with everyone, especially in a church the size of BBC. However, aren't your SBC representatives based on the size of your church? I would think they would need to keep it realistic. Also, it's not that hard to count the choir and orchestra on a Sunday morning. That does seem to be purposefully misleading.

Junkster said...

concernedSBCer said...
I can understand not being able to keep up with everyone, especially in a church the size of BBC. However, aren't your SBC representatives based on the size of your church?

Yes, each church gets one messenger, plus one additional messenger for each 250 members, or each $250 given to the SBC annually. But the maximum number of messengers from any one church is 10, so once a church has more than 2,500 members (or gives more than $2,500), the size of the membership doesn't impact the representation.

New BBC Open Forum said...

junk wrote:

"If they ever purged the rolls annually, it was a lot longer than 11-12 years ago ..."

Actually, I was being generous. DC stated they purged the rolls during the first 18 to 20 years that Dr. Rogers was at BBC. Then he said they stopped about 9-10 years ago. Obviously, that doesn't add up since Dr. Rogers was here for over 32 years. I guess that's that "new math" stuff again.

concernedSBCer said...

Junk: You've got mail.

concernedSBCer said...

Junk: Thanks for the numbers clarification.
:)

concernedSBCer said...

Cakes: You've got mail!
:)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Oh, how interesting. Look at this.

This page shows some of FBCC's productions (is that a polar bear?), and this one lists some of their ministries. Think BBC will be starting a "clown ministry"? (Bracing for the inevitable jokes to follow.)

New BBC Open Forum said...

No doubt BBC will want to upgrade and expand their Sunday morning coffee centers to meet this standard.

be-still-and-know said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
concernedSBCer said...

Wait a minute....does this mean they will be having a minister in charge of SCT, MPP, and Celebrate America? How is it that Dr. Whitmire did that, plus all the Minister of Music stuff, for how many years? Now it takes two? Am I reading this right?

Junkster said...

From the resignation letter of Mark Blair at First Baptist Concord:
It is now in obedience to that call that I must submit to you my resignation as Pastor of Worship and accept the call as Minister of Music in charge of Special Productions at Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis, TN. Mardi will also be joining the staff there in the Preschool and Children’s Ministry.

Do any of these guys coming onto the BBC staff look into the turmoil?

Is "Mardi" Mark's wife? More nepotism?

Didn't BBC do fine with its "special productions" for years without needing a separate minister for them?

be-still-and-know said...

Hey, Nass!

FYI –

Bellevue already has a Clown Ministry, although I can’t find it on the website.

Spunky the Clown used to moonlight at Sonic on his unicycle. My daughter thought he was a creepy addition to her Wacky Pack.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Well, IMO clowns are just creepy period. Kind of like noisy mimes.

concernedSBCer said...

I have another question. Does everyone at BBC have multi-family members working there? What's up with that?

concernedSBCer said...

I mean, if a man goes to work at Fed Ex, does his wife automatically get hired too?

Just Askin'

Becky said...

I wish they would retire the SCT and MPP and do something different. Those were programs of a different time and place. Is that just selfish?

concernedSBCer said...

Churchmouse: If they aren't going to stay up to the previously set standard, I agree with you. This year's SCT was not near as good as in the past, imho. I didn't even have the heart to go to the MPP.

It's so sad. :(

Becky said...

concernedSBCer said...
I have another question. Does everyone at BBC have multi-family members working there? What's up with that?
reply:
I can't think of another minister who had a family member or spouse on the staff until Steve Gaines arrived.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Does everyone at BBC have multi-family members working there?"

Not all, but this morning SG introduced the hiring of a new "pastoral care" minister, Michael Crouch. He's the son-in-law of Phil Weatherwax.

gmommy said...

wow,
so JP gets to live in a $500,000+ home but NOT have to do all the special productions like JW did??? (while living modestly)

Wonder if JP wants to make sure he is free for the lead roles??

So, no need to work and struggle for that masters, seminary, and doctorate anymore....
just get in a covenant agreement with the pastor running the "big church" and work less / get paid more!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

I bet this is one feature BBC won't be implementing anytime soon!

gmommy said...

Are we NOT hearing from teachers because they ALL signed the pages of paperwork without consulting SOMEONE????
like an attorney?

Are they in shock that it finally happened???

No one commented on the teacher I mentioned earlier that taught an 8AM SS then goes to Faith for church. He git his papers this morning...so did anyone else????

gmommy said...

well,actually he gOT them....

putting my glasses back on now

gmommy said...

Nass,
We tried the suggestion box.....didn't work.

The plan is set. Only followers willing to sign away their rights allowed.

Patrick said...

Looks like Mrs. Blair comes with some qualifications and experience.

Mardi Blair - Elementary School Principal & Counselor(Concord Christian School/FBCC); M.Ed. University of Tennessee, Chattanooga; B.A. Samford University

"Mardi will also be joining the staff there in the Preschool and Children’s Ministry."

Lynn said...

oc said...

Interruption for a special news bulletin:

Went to watch our very own Lynn bowl.
While there, I watched him roll strikes, 6 or 7 in a row. He's quite a bowler.

Now, it's up to you conspiracy theorists to figure out if this was a clandestine meeting and all this is code, or if this is an actual, real life occurrence.

You never know, do you? :)

7:51 PM, August 12, 2007

And then I tanked the last two games with a 140 and 170 lol. We got our tails kicked again.

gmommy said...

lynn,
remember
"appropriate" words...
I know you get excited about bowling.
just sayin...

oc said...

Lynn said:

And then I tanked the last two games with a 140 and 170 lol. We got our tails kicked again.

oc says:
Good job Agent Lynn. Got it. The 140/170 message is clear. Look in the bowling ball thumb hole for your next mission.

oc.

sheeplessatbbc said...

concernedSBCer said...
I have another question. Does everyone at BBC have multi-family members working there? What's up with that?

10:12 PM, August 12, 2007


Food for thought...

2 family income needs, both work for BBC, just how much loyalty do you think that buys leadership? If one rocks the boat, they both could lose their jobs, overnight! Same scenario with other family members.

This is not job security, it's guaranteed "toeing the line" and yes sir boss! how many of those covenants do you want me to sign, and jump how high??!!

gmommy said...

so right sheepless

sheeplessatbbc said...

Powermommy,

Maybe they won't have to jump very high, after all it's just an "itty-bitty fence"

Anonymous said...

Hey ya'll,

Since a Spam-a-thon won't entice our own dear Dr. Bill Loney to join us at the "End the summer" bowling party perhaps we could conduct our own "Blog-a-thon Fear Factor" similar to this one.

Come on down WTLMD you could win this uncontested!

Dr. Bill, I am so appreciative of your sister Jill. I went looking for an ameliorator the other day because I had a conflict between what I said and what I meant to do and needed some help ameliorating my conscience and WA-LA with a little fortuitous grandiose coincidental effort on my part, Jill,(all of her), consented to address my concerns with total success.

Please Dr. Loney won't you come down?

gmommy said...

Padroc,
Is that something like a special prayer language???
I am sooo lost on the Jill story!

gmommy said...

I bet you and Cakes were something at your peace meeting lunch with MB.:)

MOM4 said...

FYI ALL...

BBC already has/had a clown ministry in years past. I do not know if it still exists or not. They were out of the youth dept. and marched in parades and things like that.


Ron and Sarah Jerkins are both on staff.

concernedSBCer said...

Dr. Loney: I'm with Padroc on this. Think of it this way....you, too, could get your very own clandestine clock.

Sure would look nice while you are out jogging....

concernedSBCer said...

Padroc: Please be sure to tell us all about that that mission at our next clandestine meeting.
:)

sickofthelies said...

gmommy said:

wow,
so JP gets to live in a $500,000+ home but NOT have to do all the special productions like JW did??? (while living modestly)

Wonder if JP wants to make sure he is free for the lead roles??

So, no need to work and struggle for that masters, seminary, and doctorate anymore....
just get in a covenant agreement with the pastor running the "big church" and work less / get paid more!!

10:28 PM, August 12, 2007

SOTL says:

Now, now, Gmommy...have you forgotten that JP and SG have a SPECIAL covenenant between just the two of them? We still haven't figured out what special covenant exists between those two men.

johnthebaptist said...

Food for thought....

We have had a clown ministry ever since SG & JP & DC have come to town.


SAD.

aslansown said...

SOTL said:
Now, now, Gmommy...have you forgotten that JP and SG have a SPECIAL covenenant between just the two of them? We still haven't figured out what special covenant exists between those two men.

Just to keep things on the high road, please don't go there.

New BBC Open Forum said...

junk wrote:

"Didn't BBC do fine with its "special productions" for years without needing a separate minister for them?"

Things were fine with Dr. Rogers and just an Associate Pastor for years (well, at least we thought they were), but Steve Gaines, who is over 25 years younger than Dr. Rogers, had to create an extra position, that of Assistant Pastor, because he was just "too busy" to handle everything.

Jim Whitmire is at least 25 years older than JP, but he handled the full-time minister of music position and managed to lead the production of the SCT, MPP, etc., but now they have to hire someone just for those productions?

Think about it. Twice the pay for half the work of their predecessors. Sweet deal if you can get it, and apparently BBC's senior pastor and minister of music have gotten it.

New BBC Open Forum said...

aslan wrote:

"Just to keep things on the high road, please don't go there."

Agreed. Let's not even pretend to navigate those uncharted waters.

aslansown said...

aslan wrote:

"Just to keep things on the high road, please don't go there."

Agreed. Let's not even pretend to navigate those uncharted waters.

10:24 AM, August 13, 2007


I firmly believe that those really are uncharted waters.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Here is some timely commentary on the topics of Biblical forgiveness and civil authority.

Lwood said...

It is now in obedience to that call that I must submit to you my resignation as Pastor of Worship and accept the call as Minister of Music in charge of Special Productions at Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis, TN. Mardi will also be joining the staff there in the Preschool and Children’s Ministry.



Do you think he will be looking for that 400 member choir and 100 Orchestra to work with???? Boy is he in for a shock!!!!!!

Becky said...

Hi Blog,
Just came in from painting on the garden shed. It was nice outside until about 9:00. Wasn't too hot, and a little nuthatch was keeping me company with his "Ank, ank."
This started me thinking on the wildlife, again. This fall, there will be no acorns or hickory nuts for the deer, squirrels, birds, and other wildlife. The little spotted fawns that have been kicking up their heels in our back yard every morning will have to wait until another year to taste the sweet juice of persimmons. The late spring frost and summer drout will mean a lean fall and winter.

In Luke 12:24 Jesus tells us to "Consider the ravens: they do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds?" He tells us not to worry so much. I pondered on this while I painted.

Jesus didn't tell us that we would never have dry, hot, summers, or lean winters. But, he did tell us he would feed us and care for us. I wonder if this means spiritually as well as physically? I came inside and read in verse 30 -32: "...your Father knows that you need them (food and clothes) But seek his kingdom and these things will be given to you as well. Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom."

I came into the house feeling renewed. What is it about God and a garden?

Unknown said...

This is the LWF devotion from August 10th - I was in FL visiting some old college roommates. I think God's trying to tell me something:


BIBLE MEDITATION:
“For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.” Matthew 18:20

DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT:
There is something wonderful about unity. I heard about a fellow who courted a girl by writing her a beautiful love letter every day for two years. He thought that would be a wonderful way to court her. Do you know what happened? She married the mail carrier! There is nothing like being there. There is nothing like personal contact. There is a sense in which Jesus Christ is present when His people gather that’s not in any other sense. You cannot get it the same way at home.

ACTION POINT:
Do you have a church home? If not, I encourage you to find one today. If church attendance isn’t important, I wonder why Satan works so hard to keep folks away. If you do have a church home, make a special effort this week to meet a new friend and find a need they have which you can meet.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Isn't this sweet?

amazed said...

Hey Sheeps: Do you think it would do any good to try and warn Mark Blair that he may have bought a pig-in-a-poke? No wait-he just didn't ask the right questions. Well it was a nice thought.

amazed said...

Well it is now time to turn out the lights as the last Lutheran leaves the building. I hope there is not a big jam at the door.

concernedSBCer said...

Amazed: what do Lutherans have to do with it?

Lily said...

Just how many additional positions have been created at BBC since SG began his reign? How many of those positions added more than one person to cover the job previously handled by one person? Has the shrinking of the choir, orchestra and attendance in the sancuary created a need for more staff? Is more staff required to handle the "hired non-members" instead of the dwindling volunteer church members?

To borrow a phrase ...just asking...

New BBC Open Forum said...

concernedsbcer wrote:

"Amazed: what do Lutherans have to do with it?"

Read the article linked in my 4:02 p.m. comment. It's nothing to do with BBC. Just an interesting and sad commentary about an issue in the Lutheran church.

imaresistor said...

NBBCOF...

Sweet? Well....

There are several books out by gay author/priest, Chris Glaser. One of his books is titled Coming Out As Sacrament...and means just what it says. He refers to his 'coming out' as gay into the church as a sacrament. He is Presbyterian I believe.

Lily said...

Some very frightening reading from
today's Tennessean. Written by John McCullough is pastor of Woodland Presbyterian Church in east Nashville.

Many of us learned very early the song that begins: "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so." And it seems that many of us continue to think and speak about God with the idea that our most profound conclusions about life and the universe can be validated simply by citing verses from scripture. A different approach is needed.

A spate of recent books argues not only that religious faith has duped and deceived people for several millennia, but that religion itself has caused much of the injustice, oppression and warfare that still plague humankind. I somewhat agree with this observation, but strongly disagree when the authors insist that the solution is simply to eliminate religious faith. The cliche that applies there is "throwing out the baby with the bath water."

We could respond by citing scriptures showing that these evils do not result from religious faith itself but from the imperfect embodiment of a faith by its followers. But a different approach is needed, because SCRIPTURE-BASED ARGUMENT IS NO LONGER PERSUASIVE OR EVEN MEANINGFUL to most people in today's world. In a metaphor from Edward Farley, one of the great theologians of our time, the "house of authority" in which Christian theology lived for more than 1,000 years has collapsed. Some ignore the collapse and continue living amid the ruins, while others attempt to rebuild the house. But a better response, departing from the metaphor, is to find new ways to think and speak about God.
One alternative can be sketched here in only the briefest way. Let us revise the childhood song to "Jesus loves me, this I know, for God's people show me so," pointing out how the formative, lived experience of the community of faith precedes its scriptures, which are a means of transmitting the formative experience to succeeding generations. That formative experience, transmitted to present-day Christians from ancient Israel through the Jesus movement, is God's transformation of corrupted human existence into a new way of living — transformation to which we apply the term "redemption."
The community of faith cannot abandon its scriptures without risking the loss of its connection to the roots of its faith and the loss of something essential to its present-day experience of redemption. But the community of faith must acknowledge that faith itself can become corrupted and be itself in need of the redemptive activity of God. Such corruption might now include the traditional authoritative view of scripture.
The "house of authority" has, indeed, collapsed. And if it somehow could be rebuilt, the present example of militant fundamentalist Islam shows it unwise to do so. What people of faith must learn instead is to think and speak out of a realization that vital, valid religious faith does not come from book or scripture, but from the lived experience of human community in relation to that redemptive, ultimately mysterious creativity and empathy called God.

Becky said...

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17

Yet John McCollouh said:

" What people of faith must learn instead is to think and speak out of a realization that vital, valid religious faith does not come from book or scripture, but from the lived experience of human community in relation to that redemptive, ultimately mysterious creativity and empathy called God."

We sing, "Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so."

John McCollough wants to sing: "I know Jesus loves me because because Christians are kind to me."

Question: Should our perception of God be based on how well flawed Christians reflect Him?

Lily, you are right. This is scary, but not surprising.

New BBC Open Forum said...

amazed wrote:

"Do you think it would do any good to try and warn Mark Blair that he may have bought a pig-in-a-poke?"

Waste of time. His eyes should already be wide open, considering he was minister of music at Gardendale's FBC during part of the time SG was there.

Becky said...

He was minister of music at Gardendale? Well, now! Was that before Jamie went down there?

New BBC Open Forum said...

It must have been prior to 2000 judging by the date on this article which refers to him as the "former minister of music."

New BBC Open Forum said...

And in his resignation letter he stated he's been at FBCC for nine years.

tenncare said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Junkster said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
Waste of time. His eyes should already be wide open, considering he was minister of music at Gardendale's FBC during part of the time SG was there.

Well, there ya have it. Makes sense now.

RickeyPeete said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
tenncare said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
New BBC Open Forum said...

Is it just a coincidence that two brand new commenters show up and post exactly the same information at exactly the same time? I hope you're sincere (and I hope you're both wrong for the sake of the BBC employees). Can any of the "regulars" confirm this?

tenncare said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Lynn said...

New BBC Open Forum said...

Is it just a coincidence that two brand new commenters show up and post exactly the same information at exactly the same time? I hope you're sincere (and I hope you're both wrong for the sake of the BBC employees). Can any of the "regulars" confirm this?

10:45 PM, August 13, 2007

I smell a rat too NASS. I tend to not trust someone who goes by the name of a convicted felon and socialized medicine.

RickeyPeete said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
New BBC Open Forum said...

Oh, I'll confirm it, Mr. Peete. If you're correct I'll be the first to announce it! Excuse me for being suspicious, but it comes with the territory. We've been "rused" before, and I've learned when something smells there's usually a reason. Your and "tenncare's" comments just had a certain... fragrance. I will certainly apologize if I'm wrong.

Rickey Peete said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
Oh, I'll confirm it, Mr. Peete. If you're correct I'll be the first to announce it! Excuse me for being suspicious, but it comes with the territory. We've been "rused" before, and I've learned when something smells there's usually a reason. Your and "tenncare's" comments just had a certain... fragrance. I will certainly apologize if I'm wrong.

11:11 PM, August





Thank you for that as I have been proven wrong time and time again but you can take this to the bank.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Speaking of "fragrances," has anyone heard from Dr. Loney lately?

MOM4 said...

tenncare and ricky,
I knew that SG had upgraded the insurance to cover his illness when he came and caused the premiums to go up and the coverage to go down for the "lower class". Of course his premium is paid in full by the church so it makes no difference to him since he has no out of pocket expenses. Can you give me the rates now?

New BBC Open Forum said...

And "tenncare" and "rickey," just so I can better verify the information, are there any specific sources I might check for this information? Who was your source?

ToxicWaste said...

Why is Mark D, voice mail still active at First Baptist Church in Atlanta if he is not working there any longer?

sheeplessatbbc said...

Junkster said...
New BBC Open Forum said...
Waste of time. His eyes should already be wide open, considering he was minister of music at Gardendale's FBC during part of the time SG was there.

Well, there ya have it. Makes sense now.

10:29 PM, August 13, 2007


Hum,
Could this be another "back pocket buddy"? Or,

Is Jamie loosing favor? Does Jamie have anything to worry about?

Are they going to try to blame their losses on "The Jamie Parker Show"?

As distasteful as the "Jamie Parker Show" is, it's NOT just about the music!!!!!

Becky said...

Sheepless asked:
Is Jamie loosing favor? Does Jamie have anything to worry about?

reply: The loss of John Tiner is being sorely felt at BBC. Jamie, I am told, is not a composer. There is no one to write transitions and arrange music. Jamie has problems with leading and producing the SCT and MPP. He is a performer. However; SG and the leadership have known Jamie for a long time. I doubt that his job is in jepordy. They want him for just what he is.

concernedSBCer said...

It sounds to me like SG is getting people in there that won't buck him. As was pointed out earlier, families employed there have a stronger reason to be loyal.

How sad. When we are doing God's Will, He takes care of those needs.
(I know this from first hand experience)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Apparently MD isn't working at FBCA now -- which must be the shortest-lived Associate Pastorate of a mega in history. The official word coming out of FBCA is, "No comment."

concernedSBCer said...

Nass said: "Apparently MD isn't working at FBCA now -- which must be the shortest-lived Associate Pastorate of a mega in history. The official word coming out of FBCA is, "No comment."

Are you serious???? I know there's more to this one.......

johnthebaptist said...

Tenncare & Rickey Peete....two of the worse actors I have ever seen.

Helen Keller could see what they are up to.

Please, if you are going to try that junk, at least do a better job.

You ought to be ashamed and embarrassed.

imaresistor said...

Mark Blair? Probably one of the troops. Strategy. Just watch.

I saw this in my former church. It is all part of the big plan. Look at the patience exhibited here...it is incredible! Gaines is good.

imaresistor said...

concerned..."(I know this from first hand experience)"

Best teacher...you can add me to your list. *smiling*

amazed said...

It was amusing when rickeypeete said to ask employees and staff at BBC to verify the insurance cuts. My my my-they don't like questions at BBC and they wouldn't verify that it was hot outside.

imaresistor said...

concernedSBCer said...
"It sounds to me like SG is getting people in there that won't buck him."

Amen CSBCer!!! And they are going at it slowly, simmering the frog. Slowly but surely! Just LOOK at the people he has rid himself of at this point of the plan! And there are probably many more to go. Beating the sheep. Where is that in the Bible? Somebody show it to me?

Truthh said...

I say thank you tenncare and Rickey for speaking truth. It may hurt but it is not wrong.

Unknown said...

I don't know if this is old news or new news, but it was new to me:

Mike Crouch is the new minister of Pastoral Care. He's married to a Weatherwax daughter. I know this because I attended Union U. with him. The nepotism is disgusting!

karen

Johnathan_Bradshaw said...

This is my first post on the blog although I have been following it for months. I am not a troll or someone from this inside trying to spread propoganda, just a concerned member like each of you. I have been watching the BBC television broadcasts over the past several weeks and even the live broadcasts on the internet. Has anyone other than myself noticed the demeanor of SG. He is sweaty, oily and out of breath. Sometimes it even seems as if it is a struggle for him to talk. Could there be serious complications from his disease that we are not being told about? Does anyone know or has anyone heard anything about this other than what has already been posted?

P.S.- That could explain the dramatic increase in the number of staff being brought in.

Unknown said...

johnathan,

Steve has Myasthenia Gravis - I don't know what medications he takes to keep under control, but steroids (Prednisone) are commonly prescribed. Prednisone makes some people become irrational and/or highly agitated (it made my mom lose blocks of time!), it can change the voice and it's hard to ween off of once you're on it.

I've seen some footage of Steve where one eye is higher than the other, sort of protruding. Barbara Bush has Myesthania Gravis (sorry if the spelling is wrong!) and I remember her being quite bug eyed before getting it under control.

Just some info....

New BBC Open Forum said...

truthh,

Time will tell, but so far my sources are saying it's a rumor.

Karen,

They presented Michael Crouch to the congregation Sunday, and his photo has been on the staff page on BBC's website for a while.

Additions to the staff since the first of the year include:

David Coombs, Administrative Pastor
Mike Crouch, Minister, Pastoral Care
Carolyn Higginbotham, Director, Prayer Ministry
Jimmy Meek, Minister, Young Marrieds
Travis Moore, Minister, College
Skip Parvin, Minister, Meridian/Senior Adults
Russ Quinn, Minister, Singles 3

Soon to arrive:

Mark Blair, Minister of Music in charge of Special Productions

New to Staff page (don't know if they're really "new"):

Kathy Lewis, Director, Children's Discipleship
Debbie Mathis, Director, Preschool Ministry

Gone since the first of the year are:

Mark Dougharty, Associate Pastor
Rita Jolly, Church Hostess
Richard Kilpatrick, Assistant Minister, Biblical Guidance
Bryson McQuiston, Minister of Care Ministries
Larry Ray, Minister of Education
Josh Stewart, Church Pianist
Jason Tallent, Minister, Meridian, Senior Adults, Disciple Life
Jon Tyner, Assistant Minister, Music
Paul Williams, Minister, Prayer/Special Projects

Others who've left since the arrival of SG include:

Greg Foster
Chip Freeman (returned after one week)
Rob Mullins
Craig Parker
David Powell
Ross Ramsey
Randy Redd
Greg Ringle
David Smith
Cary Vaughn
Jim Whitmire

Johnathan_Bradshaw said...

Has there been any statement regarding the compensation for any of these new staff members? With the massive decline in attendance and I assume giving as well, how will they be paid for? It will not take long to go through the millions that are in reserve already, well that, that hasn't already been spent.

concernedSBCer said...

Kathy Lewis has been on staff for at least 6-7 years. She began in the children's ministry; maybe she got a promotion?

Unknown said...

NASS,

When did Peggy Perkins leave? She's at GBC now. If it's relavent to you list, add her as well.

Karen

imaresistor said...

Just as an addendum to recent conversations about various methods of prayer walks; thought this might be of interest?

PRAYER BEYOND WORDS

concernedSBCer said...

I don't want to throw y'all in a tailspin, but I just completed work on our *gasp* CHURCH DIRECTORY. I was in chage of all the candid/activity pages in the front. Every family that had their picture made gets one, and we will have other extras. The ENTIRE church roll, with addresses and phone numbers, will be included. I know, I know....It's too hot a day for such shocking news.

Junkster said...

It amuses me (in the sense that it seems silly) that women in the same basic position as men get the title of "Director" instead of "Minister". Even though neither is a biblical title, I guess "minister" seems closer to "pastor", so just to be extra sure people don't think they have women pastors, they give them a separate title. Wonder if Paige Patterson would approve? (Probably only if the women have no male staff members reporting to them.)

Junkster said...

Johnathan_Bradshaw said...
Has there been any statement regarding the compensation for any of these new staff members?

As in some sort of public disclosure of how much the ministers are paid?

BUUUHHH-wah-hah-hah-hah-haaaaaaaaaa!

Good one!

Junkster said...

johnthebaptist said...
Tenncare & Rickey Peete....two of the worse actors I have ever seen.

Helen Keller could see what they are up to.


Yeah, and she's dead!!

Please, if you are going to try that junk, at least do a better job.

Hey, leave me out of it!!

Crushed said...

Karen,
I have some honest and sincere questions for you. I am not trying to agrue. You have posted comments that have made me think and re-think my ideas and beliefs in the past. For that, I am grateful. I am having "issues" with the "nepotism arguement".
The Mike Crouch I knew from way back was a great guy and really loved the Lord. Recently, I read his tribute to Dr Rogers on the online guestbook. It was very moving and I remember when some of the events he cited occured. I guess my question is why are you against him being on staff? Is he not qualified for the position held? Was there another candidate more qualified? Does God call or not call his servants to a position based on where their biological (in this case, in laws)family members are? Aren't WE ALL family?
It kind of seems like a double standard. We cry about David Coombs bringing too much of the business world in to our church world and trying to run Bellevue as a business. But then we cry "nepotism". That is a business world arguement.
Do we have problems with Bellevue supporting missionaries whose family members are on staff? Bellevue has done that as long as I can remember- including Dr. Rogers' son. Did we take issue when Ryan Mullins was on staff at the same time as Rob at Bellevue? Do we have a problem with Rob and Ryan both being on GBC's staff? There have been sooooo many related ministers and staff members through the years. This is not new.
Have you spoken to Mike about him taking the position? Do you know his story behind this calling? I have not and I do not. If you know soemthing more that proves nepotism brought him to staff and not God's calling, please say so and I will apologize . If not, I think you owe him an apology. We, as a family, need to be so careful here. Is there a biblical reason Mike should not be on staff or are we just looking for something to compalin about, maybe another nail in the coffin of the administration? Are we wounding our own soldiers in the process?
I hope you know I am sincere. Hey, it's the lawyer's daughter in me. I tend to question everything on both sides of an issue and sometimes over analyze. Sorry. : )

sheeplessatbbc said...

Mark Dougharty's house is off the market also, not sold, withdrawn.

Maybe Charles Stanley and First Baptist Atlanta believe in integrity afterall.

Good news to hear Mark D. is not going to be on staff there, that was very disappointing for awhile.

Mark D. spent his integrity long ago, the whole twisted conversation about the bylaws, (which can be heard on the tape, not hearsay, you can actually listen to Mark's voice as he squirms) the amen guy, yes Steve said he had the dream, maybe Steve did not say he had the dream, then he was one of the 4 , (Steve Gaines, Sr. Pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church, John Caldwell, Deacon BBC, Chuck Taylor, Deacon BBC & Mark Dougharty, Assoc Pastor BBC) that trespassed over the fence at the gated community posted with a no trespassing sign to pay a surprise visit, (likened according to "them" to an EE visit) to one of our own Deacons, this very Deacon had been trying to get a meeting with Gaines and some others to clear up some discrepancies and conflicting stories, but had been refused meetings. But 4 grown men (in stature at least) climb his fence??

Seems Atlanta woke up.

As Dr. Lee always preached,
"Payday, Someday"!!

Johnathan Bradshaw said...

The real question here is.....WHY?!
With the very obvious decline in attendance, there is no need for the additional staff. Double the staff for half the people, and I do mean HALF! The attendance decline is not hidden to anyone even on the broadcasts it's obvious now. Call me a conspiracy theorist but there's a larger master scheme here than any of us could ever fathem.

imaresistor said...

Concerned said, "The ENTIRE church roll, with addresses and phone numbers, will be included. I know, I know....It's too hot a day for such shocking news."

Ahhhh...and as it SHOULD BE. I know what you are referring to. But again, as it SHOULD BE. :)

sickofthelies said...

Concerning MD:

One has to wonder, did Charles Stanley and co. not know that he had climbed over the fence and tresspassed when they hired him in the first place?

Did they not know about his dream/no dream conversations? Did they not know about his bylaw conversations?

I find it hard to believe that they did not know about the blog or SavingBellevue.

So what's up?

Unknown said...

Crushed,

I admire your arguement and I'm thinking it over. I'm not questioning who God calls to do what job. If God wants you somewhere, you better get willing really quick or He may send a large fish your way. Amen??

Mike Crouch being on staff is a non-issue with me. I was just surprised and instantly went with the negative aspect - him being Phil Weatherwax's son just looks bad to me. There's nothing wrong with it and it's been done before (case in point - Mullins). I would just think that will all the hullaballoo that's been going on for the last 2 years, somebody over at BBC would stop and think "hey, this looks bad, let's pray and ask God if this is who He wants in this position". You'd think leadership would want to walk so gingerly on eggshells that they would be overly correct. Does that make sense? In order to bring some unity back to the congregation and to keep the peace, you'd think leadership would start making decisions that are so above board that there would be no questioning of decisions, no complaining, no blogging about it on Monday morning. Right or wrong, BBC leadership has got to stop this "my way or the highway" form of battering or BBC will continue to lose members by the droves.

Thanks for the "arguement". :)

karen

amazed said...

Johnathan: The answer to your why question is twofold. Right now there is plenty of money in the piggy bank and what better way to spend it then to share the wealth with some good old boys from the past. The main requirement to come aboard is "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil".

butterflycrown said...

Karen said...
NASS,

When did Peggy Perkins leave? She's at GBC now. If it's relavent to you list, add her as well.

Karen


Karen,
Peggy is no longer at GBC. She left several months ago. She was simply interim and then left to return to the life of retirement. She is neither attending or working at GBC. Just FYI

amazed said...

All: In retrospect, BBC was top heavy with paid staff for a long time. I attended a mens adult class for years and never saw the staff member that was responsible for our age group. I guess he shuffled paper all day or worked cross word puzzles.

Lily said...

Off topic, but wanted to share this "sign of the times" with you.

The US government is on a ‘burning platform’ of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare underfunding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon, the country’s top government inspector has warned.

David Walker, comptroller general of the US, issued the unusually downbeat assessment of his country’s future in a report that lays out what he called “chilling long-term simulations”.

These include “dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services and the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US debt.

Drawing parallels with the end of the Roman empire, Mr Walker warned there were “striking similarities” between America’s current situation and the factors that brought down Rome, including “declining moral values and political civility at home, an over-confident and over-extended military in foreign lands and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government”.

oc said...

Concernedsbcer said:

I don't want to throw y'all in a tailspin, but I just completed work on our *gasp* CHURCH DIRECTORY. I was in chage of all the candid/activity pages in the front. Every family that had their picture made gets one, and we will have other extras. The ENTIRE church roll, with addresses and phone numbers, will be included. I know, I know....It's too hot a day for such shocking news.

2:24 PM, August 14, 2007


oc says:

Whoa whoa whoa whoa!!!
Real people, real addresses, real phone numbers, so that it is provable that these people actually exist and are not a mere inflation of the membership roll in order to make the church look 'affluent' and popular? One could actually contact these people and talk with them? Man,what's next, knowing the pastor's salary?

Interesting concept. Real people. Real church.
Hmmm.
Just sayin'.
oc.

New BBC Open Forum said...

NASS taps "concernedsbcer" and "oc" on the shoulder.

Tap, tap.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Never mind they couldn't spell "pictorial," this proves it can and has been done.

concernedSBCer said...

I knew it had been done, and actually I'm pretty sure there has been one much more recent than that. I just don't get the issue over a membership list. That seems to me to be one of the silliest things I can imagine.

oc said...

concernedsbcer said:
I knew it had been done, and actually I'm pretty sure there has been one much more recent than that. I just don't get the issue over a membership list. That seems to me to be one of the silliest things I can imagine.

oc says:
Not silly if you are paranoid that someone could contact and inform these people with information not flattering to yourself or your administration,
which may threaten your social status and financial condition. And in that casse, to not allow a membership list to become public would then be
a great form of preemptive damage control, don't you think?

Just sayin'.
oc.

Lynn said...

Right now I compare current bellevue leadership and their reactions to how the church reacted when the printing press was invented. The printing press made it possible for people to print the bible in their own language and read and study the scriptures themselves. The early church, just like now, was afraid if the people had knowledge, it wouldn't bode well for the church leadership and heiarchy.

Lynn said...

BTW Nass,

Granted, things may have changed in the last couple of months, but last I heard Carey Vaughn was still teaching at Bellevue. He just quit as a staff member.

oc said...

Concernedsbcer said:

Nass said:
"Apparently MD isn't working at FBCA now -- which must be the shortest-lived Associate Pastorate of a mega in history. The official word coming out of FBCA is, "No comment."

Are you serious???? I know there's more to this one.......

9:12 AM, August 14, 2007



And from SOTL:

Concerning MD:

One has to wonder, did Charles Stanley and co. not know that he had climbed over the fence and tresspassed when they hired him in the first place?

Did they not know about his dream/no dream conversations? Did they not know about his bylaw conversations?

I find it hard to believe that they did not know about the blog or SavingBellevue.

So what's up?

4:10 PM, August 14, 2007


oc says:
Sumpins up. An 'organization' like FBCA does not make silly 'mistakes'. They scrutinize, homogenize, and pasteurize those considered for employment. They must in order maintain good rapport both with the public and the 'church universal'. So what is going on with this?
Sumpins up. And someone has the scoop. So what is it?

oc.

Junkster said...

Pastoral Search Report

We do not have a happy report to give. We’ve not been able to find a suitable candidate for this church, though we have one promising prospect still. We do appreciate all the suggestions from the church members, and we’ve followed up each one with interviews or calling at least three references. The following is our confidential report on the present candidates.

Adam: Good man but problems with his wife. Also one reference told of how his wife and he enjoy walking nude in the woods.

Noah: Former pastorate of 120 years with no converts. Prone to unrealistic building projects.

Abraham: Though the references reported wife-swapping, the facts seem to show he never slept with another man’s wife, but did offer to share his own wife with another man.

Joseph: A big thinker, but a braggart, believes in dream-interpreting, and has a prison record.

Moses: A modest and meek man, but poor communicator, even stuttering at times. Sometimes blows his stack and acts rashly. Some say he left an earlier church over a murder charge.

David: The most promising leader of all until we discovered the affair he had with his neighbor’s wife.

Solomon: Great preacher but our parsonage would never hold all those wives.

Elijah: Prone to depression-collapses under pressure.

Elisha: Reported to have lived with a single widow while at his former church.

Hosea: A tender and loving pastor but our people could never handle his wife’s occupation.

Deborah: Female.

Jeremiah: Emotionally unstable, alarmist, negative, always lamenting things, and reported to have taken a long trip to bury his underwear on the bank of foreign river.

Isaiah: On the fringe? Claims to have seen angels in church. Has trouble with his language.

Jonah: Refused God’s call into ministry until he was forced to obey by getting swallowed up by a great fish. He told us the fish later spit him out on the shore near here. We hung up.

Amos: Too backward and unpolished. With some seminary training he might have promise, but has a hang-up against wealthy people. Might fit in better in a poor congregation.

John: Says he is a Baptist, but definitely doesn’t dress like one. Has slept in the outdoors for months on end, has a weird diet, and provokes denominational leaders.

Peter: Too blue collar. Has a bad temper—even has been known to curse. Had a big run-in with Paul in Antioch. Aggressive, but a loose cannon.

Paul: Powerful CEO type leader and fascinating preacher. However, short on tact, unforgiving with younger ministers, harsh and has been known to preach all night.
Timothy: Too young.

Jesus: Has had popular times, but once when his church grew to 5000 he managed to offend them all and this church dwindled down to twelve people. Seldom stays in one place very long. And, of course, he’s single.

Judas: His references are solid. A steady plodder. Conservative. Good connections. Knows how to handle money. We’re inviting him to preach this Sunday. Possibilities here.

gopher said...

But today we have background searches that scrutinize laymen as well as potential staff. Here what goes into play when you sign a background search agreement :

What "Protect My Ministry" will do for you:

here

In the middle of the page click

"Solutions"

Then click

"Services"

Then after reading, at the bottom click

"Next"





Blue Line Investigations is next

oc said...

Junk,
Too bad the last one you list is the first one usually invited to shepherd a flock. Good CEO though.

Just sayin'.
oc.

gmommy said...

OK junkster,
You have to bowl on my team....don't care if we lose....
we will have good discussions while we are throwing the balls in the dug out...
or where ever they get thrown.
(I like the way you think!)

funny random memory....
I managed to get the basketball yells down pretty good when my son was young.

When we switched to baseball,I so wanted to be supportive and everyone got excited and I wanted to join in so I yelled.....
rebound baby!!
He has never gotten over that.

Random thoughts from my foggy brain.

oc said...

oh gmommy.
I hope one day, when you finally get up to bat, you will hit a touchdown. :)
(And the crowd roars!!!!).
oc.

gmommy said...

so you understand!!!

oc said...

indeed my friend, indeed.

Lynn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lynn said...

oc said,

oh gmommy.
I hope one day, when you finally get up to bat, you will hit a touchdown. :)
(And the crowd roars!!!!).
oc.

8:50 PM, August 14, 2007

I'm pretty sure you'll be able to slam dunk that football for the 3 point shot. :)

9:12 PM, August 14, 2007

oc said...

lynn said:
I'm pretty sure you'll be able to slam dunk that football for the 3 point shot. :)


oc says:
or make the slap shot from left field just beyond the 50 yard line while the goalie is preoccupied with waving the checkered flag signaling the end of the 7th inning.

Or whatever. :)
oc.

Junkster said...

Lynn said...
I'm pretty sure you'll be able to slam dunk that football for the 3 point shot. :)

If it was me I'm pretty sure the final score would be 40-Love.

Crushed said...

Karen,
I totally understand what you are saying. And I will give you that Amen!!! I would hope that everyone involved in the hiring process at BBC stopped and prayed that they were getting the right person for the job regardless of how it could be perceived. Definitely.
As I was reading a post before yours that talked about Gaines bringing in good old boys from the old days and then reading your post, I realized maybe they knew exactly what they were doing in bringing in Mike. Maybe they felt by bringing in someone who was familiar to anyone who was at "old Bellevue" (meaning Midtown) and who had a good relationship with Dr. Rogers, people would feel more comfortable??? Less like Steve bringing in his own, more like one of "our" own joinging the staff. I guess it is one less staff position filled by someone from Gardendale? Maybe this is what they were trying to do by bringing in Coombs- a well respected, long time member. They thought he would be trusted more and could smooth things over better than an "outsider" who people are suspect of from day one? Maybe they thought this was a step towards healing or maybe just wanted to make it appear that way? I do not know. I am not in their hearts. Thing that make you go hmmmm.....

Junkster said...

gopher said...
What "Protect My Ministry" will do for you:

Hey, that's pretty much the same things I speculated the consent form would allow them to get! Wow, I'm good! :)

Seems mostly predicated on giving your social security number, which by law you cannot be compelled to give, and I'm pretty sure you can't be discriminated against if you refuse to give it. But maybe I'm wrong on that.

Lynn said...

I say we go bowl in argentina where they have 20" of snow and get away from the inferno that is memphis :)

oc said...

Lynn said:

I say we go bowl in argentina where they have 20" of snow and get away from the inferno that is memphis :)

9:35 PM, August 14, 2007


oc says:
Oh no!!! Obvious code language. Agent Lynn, you have compromised the mission. Abort. I say again. Abort. The mission is compromised.
For next mission, call 1-800-I REALLY BLEW IT THIS TIME.
Agent Lynn, your employment is in jeopardy. Explanation required at next 'bowling party'. Hope other agents understand and forgive. :)

Just sayin'.
oc.

Lynn said...

OC, ya got mail :).

oc said...

lynn.
Ya got some mail back. :)

sickofthelies said...

Back to MD:

Just thinkin out loud here...

Maybe little MD found it necessary over there in Atlanta to climb someone's fence...maybe someone was " causing trouble" in MD's estimation, and he thought he would handle the problem the way he had been taught at good ol BBC.
After all, he suffered no reprocussions as a result of tresspassing here in Memphis, why should Atlanta be any different?

SG had the entire church laughing at his ' itty bitty fence' story, so what's the big deal anyway?

New BBC Open Forum said...

It's not just Bellevue...

Read this.

Unknown said...

NASS,

That church is across from Opryland (or what was Opryland), right? If so, I've been there a couple of times.

The article quotes a trustee of the church who says anyone questioning leadership gets alienated and some have lost ministries. Hmmm, do these guys read from the same book? You know it's title is NOT "How to Win Friends and Influence People"!

Unknown said...

crushed,

I could be wrong, but I don't think Mike Crouch is "old Bellevue" - I know he went to Union, but I don't remember him being in youth group with me. I really think his connection to Bellevue was through his wife (one of the Weatherwax girls, but I can't remember which one, but I think it's Wendy). This thing with bringing people who were "old Bellevue" would be a smart idea if people would fall for it. To me, since Steve's credibility is shredded and non-existent, anything he does is suspect. When you do folks bad, sometimes you can't get your integrity back. Just the way it is.

Thanks to whoever it was with the info on Peggy Perkins - I didn't know she didn't attend GBC anymore. NASS had asked for leaders who left and I know she was one of the first, so I thought I'd mention it. Not tryint to cause trouble. :)

Rod Almondmartanti said...

Hallelujah! Bellevue is now out in the open and showing her new colors to all who have eyes to see!

The new leadership has now replaced the first commandment of God by new and more profitable command for the leadership. We are now to put Bellevue leadership and their new rules of MIND CONTROL and THOUGHT policing into action. If anyone does not turn their backs of the ONE AND ONLY GOD OF THIS UNIVERSE AND HIS SON and put bellevue leadership first, before any other gods, there will be swift repercussions of the nastiest kind dished out. What we have seen and experienced so far is the defamation of the church members character, lies about those who don't submitt and bow down to their commands, name calling and slandeing of all who refuse to submit.

The Holy Spirit therefore will not be tollerated or able to define right from wrong. That will be done only by the Steve gaines leadership. If anyone has a confilct with the Spirit of God, then either get out of Bellevue or keep your mouth shut. There is only one opinion and that is sg's. Right and wrong are determined by him alone.

The empty pews will now be filled by MADISON AVE. ads on the telly. They will appeal to the world, the flesh and the devil. Emotions and feelings are what they will be based on and a love of a different kind than the Bible talks about. We will be known for CARING and not being judgemental and accepting everyone. Even child molesters are welcome now. We will not judge! Judging is now left up to the sg leadership. Our purpose of filling the pews asap is to fill our coffers! They are running pretty low by now and we have had to cut down on many things.

From the start of the new leadership under sg, you have seen demonstrated that lying and money problems etc are not to be concerned about. That is, unless your lies and law breaking affect the leadership of Bellevue. Laws of the state are ok to break if you can get away with it but you will not get away with following the Lord if it means going against the sg leadership.

You must be loyal to the leadership and sign on the dotted line saying so. Stuff your problems that this is against the Word of God. The Word of God has been reduced to only a guideline and that only when it suits the leaderships purposes.

We want to know how you manage your money, because we have a love and un-natural concern about you and your money. Again, we will be taking the place of the Holy Spirit on this one too.

Do not complain about the evil atmosphere of hatred and mistrust and suspicion and the feeling that you are living under bondage that permiates the halls of bellevue. Get used to it. It will go away, as we have said befor when we finish removing "all the trash" that remains in the pews. As it has been stated before, the leadership is used to handling this sort of garbage removal.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Rod,

Don't know that I would characterize those ads quite so harshly without seeing them, but apparently there are more ads to come. This from the prayer director...

Message from Jim Barnwell, Director of Communications

He requests your prayers for his team who will be shooting four TV spots this week beginning Thursday afternoon. They will be working with several people from the production company his department uses to create special spots to let our community know the heart of our pastor and church. These will be aired on TV mid to late September.

He asked specifically that you pray God's wisdom, His favor, protection, and inspiration in order that the TV messages effectively bring about the desired results that will honor and glorify the Lord in His purposes for our church.

God bless you for your faithfulness to stand in the gap for our media team.

Carolyn Higginbotham

Rod Almondmartanti said...

Since when does a church use the Madison ave ad to let the world know about the heart of a pastor? I knkow what his heart is like as far as what he has revealed to all of us from sitting in one of those pews. Belleve doesn't know how to pray but he does and he will teach us all. Bellevue doesn't know how to worship but he does and he'll cram the noise down our ears whether we like it or not because this is no longer the church of the people but of the "More equal few". The pews are empty so you go to tv, the world to advertise trying to snare people in. And why? After you have driven so many out you need the cash flow.

Look at the message. What in the world are we sending out a message about what we want others to believe about the pastors heart? Who cares! ITS STILL NOT ALL ABOUT SG NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY TO MAKE IT BE.

Rod Almondmartanti said...

Everyone left bellevue because they SAW the pastors heart. Now they want to spend God's money to convince the unsuspecting that it's not so bad? This is beyond belief. What on earth is happening to reason? What has happend to the church, and that is the true body of believers? How have we all become so blinded and duped and off the course of the Lord? Tell me, how is it possible we have fallen so far away in such a short time?

Rod Almondmartanti said...

What about the heart of JESUS ?
What about the heart of GOD?

We care about the heart of someone who reveals his heart regularly? It was his heart that called a very spirit man the hezbullah. It was his heart that caused him to strong arm and intimidated a spirit filled man to do his will. It was his heart that broke the law by climbing over a no tresspassing fence that was TOO HIGH FOR ANYONE TO JUST STEP OVER~~~ it was his heart that gave money to a church that preaches homosexuality is just fine not matter what God says about it and that murdering babies is just fine no matter what God says about that. It was his heart that said to all the congregation: if you don't like the worship music GET OVER IT! It is his heart that causes him to have to have the last word or the last singing solo etc. I can go on and on.

Who is Jesus? Remember Him? What is His heart like? Who is God? REmember Him? What is His heart like. I for one am sick of all the flesh and no spirit

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