I came across this interesting blog today. There are even photos of the "Donna Gaines" display from Bellevue!
When I think of the idols described in the Old Testament, I can't help but be reminded of the "Statue of Liberation," the 72-foot-tall "altered" replica of the Statue of Liberty that was erected in front of a church on Winchester Road and Kirby Parkway in southeast Memphis. According to this article, this statue was "inspired by a Memphis church that has three giant crosses." Hmmm... I wonder which church that could be?
When I think of the idols described in the Old Testament, I can't help but be reminded of the "Statue of Liberation," the 72-foot-tall "altered" replica of the Statue of Liberty that was erected in front of a church on Winchester Road and Kirby Parkway in southeast Memphis. According to this article, this statue was "inspired by a Memphis church that has three giant crosses." Hmmm... I wonder which church that could be?
I'm not saying all of these displays are bad. (Some border on tacky but aren't necessarily bad.) They are what they are -- symbols. It's just important to be careful not to make symbols into more than they are.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6
*******
408 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 408 Newer› Newest»concerned,
received and back at ya! ;)
piglet,
I thought the same thing! I was thinking "why does concerned resent me?" Then I looked closer and had a chuckle.
karen
Karen
More mail for you!!
Karen said...
concerned,
I agree with you - I can't count on both hands the number of people I've come to cherish from this blog. We are all so different, but the blog brought us together - well, it's God's doing, but the vehicle is the blog. I don't believe in coincidence, but I do believe in Providence. I really enjoy the people I've met and I hope to continue these friendships into the future regardless of where we all wind up going to church.
karen
10:54 AM, June 19, 2007
"The blog brought us together"
OLD SAYING, "BIRDS OF FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER"
NOTE!!!!!THE BLOG BROUGHT ALL THE BIRDS TOGETHER!!!!!
IS THE BLOG YOUR GOD? JESUS (HOLY SPIRIT) CONNECTS HIS CHILDREN TOGETHER, NOT A BLOG. (HUGE RED FLAG) READERS DO NOT BE SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE IT!
hisunseenhand said...
"The blog brought us together"
OLD SAYING, "BIRDS OF FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER"
NOTE!!!!!THE BLOG BROUGHT ALL THE BIRDS TOGETHER!!!!!
IS THE BLOG YOUR GOD? JESUS (HOLY SPIRIT) CONNECTS HIS CHILDREN TOGETHER, NOT A BLOG. (HUGE RED FLAG) READERS DO NOT BE SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE IT!
Reply: Why all the anger and hate?
Once again you misunderstood what Karen has said. This blog is not our God but a tool to be unified in voicing our concern about the unGodly leadership BBC has. We know we stand on God's Word when we call the leadership at BBC to be pure, holy and honest....which they haven't done by the way.
You can have christian fellowship here on the blog and I believe that is what Karen was refering to. The Holy Spirit binds us as believers into a common cause, to stand for God's truth against those who mock the truth.
"NOTE!!!!!THE BLOG BROUGHT ALL THE BIRDS TOGETHER!!!!!
What? Is that the best you can do? Please, stop wasting everyones time.
Your hate and anger belongs on the dark side so go back to that blog.
We are not blind. We aren't the ones blindly following Steve.
unseen,
I think the blog may be your God just as much as you accuse others. You can't seem to control yourself away from it any more than others who blog frequently.
We can all be guilty of letting something monopolize our time and thoughts outside of the things of God. The results of sin inside the church have a farther reach and affect on the masses than what the leadership realize.
I believe this blog has been useful in getting both sides out there to be heard. People can choose to believe or not believe.
I was one who gave SG and the leadership the benefit of the doubt but truly wanted to hear both sides of the story. After hearing both sides and examining people's actions, I prayed that God would give me wisdom to know right from wrong.
He has and I've seen many a instance of wrong behind the pulpit and in the current leadership of Bellevue. It saddens me but the reality is that God is not surprised by man's actions. We may be surprised but not God.
He is in control and the consequences of sin are not something we can control. Bellevue will get what God has in store for it good or bad and there will be people who continue to interpret it different ways.
BT said
IS THE BLOG YOUR GOD? JESUS (HOLY SPIRIT) CONNECTS HIS CHILDREN TOGETHER, NOT A BLOG. (HUGE RED FLAG) READERS DO NOT BE SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE IT!
Piglet says:
Oh, don't blow everything out of proportion. If you can minimize Steve Gaines' public sin by saying we all sin privately, then surely you could give us the benefit of the doubt. :)
The blog is like Shoney's. If we met at Shoney's and caught up over coffee, would you ask us if we were worshiping Shoney's?
BT
You say that you fight injustice, but where were you when CW came to the microphone to speak and they REFUSED to allow him to speak?
Why aren't you screaming about SG
REFUSING to meet with CW for all those months, when CW was calling and calling and calling to get an appt with him, yet SG had no time for him, after it was clear that his father was going to be allowed to stay on staff after his confession?
Face it, BT, you dont' care about sexual deviants roaming the hall at BBC and you will make up ANY reason to excuse SG from his responsibility.
If you say that SG just didnt' understand what PW had really done in the meeting with PW, don't you think that SG SHOULD have wanted to see whyPW's son was so adamant about wanting a meeting with him??????????
No, because you don't care. You have no problem with sexual deviants being around children. You are willing to dismiss and excuse it, as long as you can bow down before your idol, SG.
When SG abandons you, and BBC after he has decimated it, BT,what will you do then? Follow him? You are like a groupie to rock stars.
Don't you think you are umm, a little " long in the tooth" to be a groupie?
Billie,
You address me in that manner one more time and I will go back to the minister I spoke with about you and let him know just how mean and crochety an old woman you are. I told you to keep me out of your thoughts and off your mind and yet you persist. Trust me, I am prepared to go to Biblical Guidance at BBC and expose you for the fraud that you are. I have dozens of musings and emails from you and I will use them if you address me in any manner. This minister has already been made aware of your craziness on the blog and his wife reads it so please don't make me go back and change my mind about exposing you further. He wanted to know if we could sit down and hash this out in person, but I told him no, I just wanted you to leave me alone. Now you've started up again and really ticked me off! Please don't make me call him back!
karen
huh wrote:
sickofthelies said...
Billy,
You said in an earlier post that you are not trying to hide your identity.
Could you help us to understand why it is that your profile lists you as a man?
9:33 AM, June 19, 2007
answer: maybe you are looking at the profile crosseyed like you are looking at how the Lord tells His children to treat their brothers and sisters and church affairs.
(why is my nickname billybob?)
No, SOTL was looking at it correctly. You changed it. And I have no idea why your nickname is "billybob" nor do I really care. My only point is that you did list your sex as "male" in your profile and have now changed it. Stop blowing smoke!
AND it says you were born in 1929 - which I believe!
Why would Ray Saba be paid a visit by Larry Ray and Mark Gates to silence him but BT be welcomed as a teacher? Is up actually down and down actually up these days?
My how things have changed at our beoved Bellevue in 20 months.
Ray Saba is a Godly man who has stood firmly for truth and righteousness for several decades at Bellevue. Thank you Mr. Saba.
IS THE BLOG YOUR GOD? JESUS (HOLY SPIRIT) CONNECTS HIS CHILDREN TOGETHER, NOT A BLOG. (HUGE RED FLAG) READERS DO NOT BE SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE IT!
Well, using this logic, we all better stop going to church, Bible studies, or any kinds of gatherings of Christians...
How do you think Jesus brings His own together? Is He limited to church buildings only?
piglet wrote:
"The blog is like Shoney's. If we met at Shoney's and caught up over coffee, would you ask us if we were worshiping Shoney's?"
Probably so.
All hail our new blog god!
This will be my last post on this forum. Clearly I do not belong here. I’m not given to bickering back and forth and I tend to be very straight forward in what I say. That’s not a popular position here, so I will address two people and then take my leave. I have been blessed by many of you and I assure each of you of my continued prayers for the Peace that passes all understanding to reign in your spirits.
While I do not approve of what SG is doing at BBC, I am very careful of what I say about God’s man – and whether we like it or not, SG is God’s man for God’s own purpose at this point in time. As much as I loved Dr R, he too had a millionaire’s club of power brokers (not necessarily of his choosing), but unlike SG, Dr R was able to keep them in line. That is, sadly, not the case at BBC today. I do not know the plans God has for BBC but I continue to pray for repentance and healing for the entire church body – beginning with the leadership.
LoveCakes or Fruit-Cakes, I have only been here for a brief time and I was unaware of your most favored status on the forum. I incorrectly assumed you were a newcomer throwing out a challenge. I was unaware of your MO or your substance, and if I was condescending to you, then I seek your forgiveness. BTW, you referenced the other blog – I’ve never been to the other blog – keeping up with this one requires more time than I can justify.
I clearly misspoke about Satan being given dominion over the earth. Satan is the prince and power of the air, and as such, he is the SOURCE of sin and the SOURCE of our corrupt world system. Satan was the tempter in the Garden and he plunged all of humanity into sin, so that pretty much makes him the responsible party.
And within God’s judicial purpose, Satan is responsible for the bruising of Jesus. That’s primarily what the cross was all about. It was at the cross that Jesus was bruised by Satan, but it was also at the cross where Satan's head was crushed by God, and thus, the battle of the ages was finished, once and for all. And Jesus is LORD. Amen.
And Cakes, you can study the life of Jesus until the cows come home, but you will not come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ until you come to the cross and understand what He did for each of us there. My continued prayer for you is that you will do that and that you will be saved.
GmommysGirl said, “Think of honey. Jesus' resurrection was like a big dollup being dropped onto earth and slowly through time oozes to every part.”
And so, as that honey oozes through time to every part, everything on this earth will be okay? No, not quite. That’s very liberal theology and it certainly does not come from the Scriptures.
GmommysGirl said, ”we believers are doing real kingdom work here - and that includes putting to rights what sin twists”
May I ask how you’re doing “kingdom” work when God’s Kingdom will not be established until Jesus returns to Mt. Zion?
And what are you “putting to rights what sin twists”? If you sincerely believe that, I suggest you work faster because sin is overtaking the earth at this point in time. As believers, we are to go and tell others about Jesus, to make disciples, to be fishers of men.
GmommysGirl also said, ”and this whole notion of the world going to hell in a handbasket anyway so we might as well do what we want -- is such a gnostic perversion of Christianity it makes me want to throw something!”
I said, and I quote, “This earth IS on a collision course with disaster, but as AR used to say, “There is no panic in Heaven, only plans.”’
I never said nor implied the world is going to hell in a hand basket or that we should do what we want. However, to deny that the earth is on a collision course with disaster is to deny the teachings of Biblical prophecy, for that too is part of God’s plan. And please don’t throw anything – someone could get hurt.
Dear young lady, my heart’s desire and prayer for you is that you get alone with God and with the Scriptures, and study the deep things of God. Let the Holy Spirit be your only guide, for He will guide you into all truth. I admire your youthful enthusiasm and I don’t mean to sound harsh, but your theology, as you set forth in your post, simply does not square with the Bible.
Once again, my prayers will continue for each one of you.
Blessings because HE lives,
Mary
NASS! This is creepier than the Burger King! Please don't put a link to that here. He really gives me the heebie jeebies!
karen
I assume "mary" deleted her last comment and reposted it after "lin" had already responded to it. Just trying to clear up the confusion.
Mary,
No one said you don't belong here, so I don't know where you're getting that. I've appreciated reading your comments, and while no two of us would ever agree on every little thing, I think most of us (less the trolls) are pretty much on the same page. Thank you for sharing your story and contributing. You're certainly welcome to stay and continue to contribute. I hope you will.
Someone must be misbehaving - moderation is on....
This should take care of the confusion of Mary deleting her first post and my response. I will just repost my reponse here after her same post.
Mary, I think there has been some misunderstanding that could easily be resolved without bickering back and forth.
Mary Wrote: This will be my last post on this forum. Clearly I do not belong here. I’m not given to bickering back and forth and I tend to be very straight forward in what I say. That’s not a popular position, so I will address two people and then take my leave, but I assure each of you of my continued prayers for the peace that passes all understanding to reign in your spirits."
Mary, discussing theology in scriptural context does not have to be uncivil. Let us have the scriptures teach us as 'straightforward'. It is a blessing and edification to believers.
"While I do not approve of what SG is doing at BBC, I am very careful of what I say about God’s man – and whether we like it or not, SG is God’s man for God’s own purpose at this point in time."
Scripturally, I cannot understand statements like this. God is Sovereign and 'allows' all sorts of things. He allowed 9/11. He allows children to die of dreadful diseases. He has allowed young people to be sodomized. We live in a fallen world.
Yet, as a believer, your statement confuses me. So if God allows all these things...we have no responsibility but to just sit back and wring our hands?
What does being 'God's man' mean to you, Mary? That he has a Christian title? Went to seminary? Pastor of a large church?
Scripture (John) tells us that ALL believers are anointed. That means in the new covenant all believers are 'God's man or woman'.
However, Shouldn't being God's man mean that one is following/teaching scriptural truths? Doesn't it mean that one is walking in the light... continuously? (1 John) Yes, sinning but not as a lifestyle and is appalled by their sin.
Should we ignore the teaching of scripture for the qualifications of an elder? (Timothy, Titus) And where does the Priesthood of Believers fit into this view of yours concerning God's man?
Saying someone is 'God's man' when they clearly are ignoring God's Word, concerns me. What confusion to non believers!
" As much as I loved Dr R, he too had his own millionaire’s club of power brokers, but unlike SG, Dr R was able to keep them in line."
Dr. R was just a man. It grieves me to see people compare Dr. R with Gaines. Our standard is scripture...not any man. Actually, I think Dr. Rogers would agree with that!
"LoveCakes or Fruit-Cakes, I have only been here for a brief time and I was unaware of your most favored status on the forum. I incorrectly assumed you were a newcomer throwing out a challenge."
Mr. Love Cakes was given this monkier by his friends here. He used to be, 'Trollcates'. I still do not know what that means:o)
He is not a believer. He is our friend who, ironically, has more ethical common sense than does the pastor at BBC. (Mary, we are NOT to judge the world until Judgement Day. (1 Corin 5) And, Judgement BEGINS at the House of the Lord for believers. (1 Peter)
Cakes is a flaming liberal but he is OUR flaming liberal and we love him.
"I clearly misspoke about Satan being given dominion over the earth. Satan is the prince and power of the air, and as such, he is the SOURCE of sin and the SOURCE of our corrupt world system. Satan was the tempter in the Garden and he plunged all of humanity into sin, so that pretty much makes him the responsible party. "
Mary, Read through Matthew 4 closely. Notice that Jesus early on quotes scripture to Satan and then Satan (also called the angel of light) quotes scripture back to Jesus in the next exchange(Satan knows scripture better than most Christians!)..then around verse 7 or so Satan offers Jesus the Kingdoms of the world. All of them. What does that say to you?
However, when we become regenerated we are given a new heart of flesh (Ez 37 or 36) and are separated, cleansed, etc. We are NO longer of the world and it shows. One can tell..fruit, etc. Salvation is a supernatural work in the heart of a person.
"And within God’s judicial purpose, Satan is responsible for the bruising of Jesus. That’s primarily what the cross was all about It was at the cross that Jesus was bruised by Satan, but it was also at the cross where Satan's head was crushed by God, and thus, the battle of the ages was finished, once and for all. And Jesus is LORD. Amen. "
Mary, Jesus was our PROPITIATION. Since God is PERFECT JUSTICE someone had to take the penalty for sin. Who? Well, God took the penalty for us in the form of His perfect Son who was God in the flesh. Jesus felt the full Wrath of what we would get on Judgement Day if not saved. He experienced that Wrath on the Cross.
Mary, I think you are giving Satan much more power than he actually has in terms of the cross.
Mary if the battle was finished, why is there still rampant sin in the world? The battle IS finished for the 'elect' yet Satan is still roaming and devouring while believers still live in this fallen world and suffer because of sin. (See Luke 13)
Mary wrote: May I ask how you’re doing “kingdom” work when God’s Kingdom will not be established until Jesus returns to Mt. Zion?"
Please do not misunderstand what she meant by Kingdom work. I doubt very seriously that gmommy believes we are setting up His kingdom now on earth. If she does...she better e-mail me! :o)
However, Mary, we have to wonder why Paul, Peter, Titus wrote so many warnings on false teachers? (Do a study on false teachers, wolves, deceivers, mockers, hirelings...astonishing when you read all of these in context!)
By your statements you have led me to believe that we should do nothing about it. Should we not warn? Do you believe that we have no responsibility to contend for the faith (Jude)when scripture teaches different?
The printing press made the reformation possible. The blog is doing the same and with it comes responsbility for what we write when we contend for the faith.
There will always be teaching that is wrong. We must be Bereans in all things. Even with what our pastors teach. We do not need an earthly priest to tell us what to believe. We have the Word. The Holy Spirit teaches us if we ask (Luke 11-I think)
Mary wrote: I never said nor implied the world is going to hell in a hand basket or that we should get what we want. However, to deny that the earth is on a collision course with disaster is to deny the teachings of Biblical prophecy, for that too is part of God’s plan."
Look around us...at our homes, our cars, our big beautiful zillion dollar churches...HE is going to burn it all up. Store up treasures in heaven! Preach the Gospel! Pray that God will open more eyes to the apostasy surrounding us!~
Hebrews 12:28-29 (ESV)
Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire.
Grace and Peace to you.
piglet,
Why, I'll give you one guess!
Mr. Deacon just can't control himself.
piglet,
Why, I'll give you one guess!
Mr. Deacon just can't control himself.
Isn't self control in the list of the fruit of the Spirit?
Yes, yes it is.
Lin, thank you for a Scripturally sound response. It’s a welcomed voice and a challenge to me. As NASS correctly assumed, I had removed my post for a re-write – doing too much at once, again. I still didn’t get it rewritten but we’ll go from here.
Lin, I also believe in the Priesthood of the Believer and that God’s Word is the absolute final authority -- period. When I said that SG is God’s man, I meant that I believe he was truly called of God to serve His sovereign will – as opposed to being sent to seminary my Mommy or Daddy because they wanted a preacher boy in the family, as I’ve seen happen numerous times.
Lin, I will study your writing carefully – and thanks for providing the Scripture references. And thank you for challenging me on this. I didn’t feel comfortable with it myself.
But I can say without hesitation that no pastor, elder or any other should go unchallenged when they depart from Scripture.
Mary
NASS, I'm sorry for all the confusion. Maybe I'm just too old for this blogging stuff.
Mary
New BBC Open Forum said...
All hail our new blog god!
Nass, you are dating yourself! Shoney's and Big Boy went their separate ways many, many moons ago.
Rather than a blog god, can't we just have a blog king?
(Sorry, Karen!)
Thanks for the warning, junk! I didn't click on it just in the nick of time! I told NASS that clowns scare me too!
mary wrote:
"Maybe I'm just too old for this blogging stuff."
Nonsense! One is never too old to blog!
Mary said: "But I can say without hesitation that no pastor, elder or any other should go unchallenged when they depart from Scripture."
AMEN, Mary. Thanks! Some don't understand that's one of the purposes of this blog because other avenues were closed to BBC faithful.
Mary: With age comes wisdom....blog away!
Mary and Lin: Thank you so much for your well-worded, thought out posts. It gives us all something to study and pray about.
Lin: We do love OUR Cakes, don't we! :)
I'm thinking of using this new name, since everybody loves 'cakes!
Clowns are not scary!!
junk,
Now that was plain mean! :( Sorry, but I've got my phobias!
just joshing about being mean...
karen :)
Karen,
Heh heh! I can't believe you clicked on a link about clowns!! But what do ya expect from junk-cakes? Sounds like expired Twinkies, doesn't it? I'm going back to my old name.
I know - don't touch the stove, but complain when I get burned, huh? :)
I sent you an example of clowns that don't scare me.
Junk
That clown was MUCH scarier than heffalumps and woozles....but not as scary as two ministers and two deacons jumping my fence.....(shudder)
Karen
Are the clowns in leadership at BBC scary?
BT
And you LIED?
You changed your profile and then LIED about it? LOL!!
What does the Bible say about lying?
BUSTED!!
BT
Liar, liar, pants on fire..
Mary,
I don't wish to see you feel unwelcome on my account. I'm a loving guy, laid back and have a obtuse sense of humor--I'm generally great with kids, animals and religious folk. I sensed you were a newcomer and perhaps thought I was a trouble-making troll.
I in no way have any intention or any interest in disuading anyone here of their religious or political beiefs, yours or mine. I am to encourage you in your faith, if I live by mine.
I'm really comfortable here with my new friends, so if some issue comes up for which I hold a dissenting opinion, I usually feel free to comment. I think folks here would tell you that I steer clear of matters of theology or Baptist doctrine, since I have no context to forward any contribution in those matters.
The context for which I have ingratiated myself into this discussion is as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, besides my own "church" blowing up, just a few years ago, over a sex scandal involving leadership--ith all the attendant justifications cloaked in religion-speak, appeals to religious authority and members splitting into the loyal sycophants and the dispossessed troublemakers, just like BBC.
One of the things I wish to accomplish by fellowshipping with you all is to demonstrate, to myself as much as to anyone else, that we can find bonds between us, and that disagreements do not define us or our relationships with people of all varieties.
As I said before, "in my experience, some church-folks feel the need to assert their spiritual certitude in such a manner that accentuates the differences and condescends the very notion that a thoughtful and ethical person might follow a different path."
This is one of my biggest hangups with some Christians of the overzealous variety. For instance, this statement from BLT is unuseful:
"Comfortable with my beliefs.
or
Convicted with the Truth.
There is a difference."
Apples and oranges; there is a dfference. Had the writer taken the time or effort to actually say something of substance, engage the comments, even challenge me on my points, then I would take no offense. But the attitude here is one of dismissal and condescending--it is not meant to engage, inform or encourage exchange; rather, it is a monologue, a pretext, the end of any opportunity for exchange.
Getting on a tangent about Mother Nature would have been fine, but you fixated upon and left most of what I has expressed high and dry, beside telling me that I am wrong. I tried to reply to you as measuredly and lovingly as possible.
Then, ironically, Padroc tells me that my words lack substance--and yes, I walked out in the face of that blaring double-standard. Membership obviously has it priveliges.
From my upbringing in church, I thought that Christ saved one from eternal damnation, not a ticket that obsolves the same of patience, kindness and graciousness. If your are rude, incoherent or condescending, do not freight your Savior with those attributes; I think you'll have to take responsibility for that.
Yes, even as a Boo-dhist, I still would have made a better ethical decision than Padre regarding the pedophile. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it--ha.
Oh, and I love y'all too!
Mary,
Thank you for your words of kindness. I may have read too much into your post...I have been blogging a long time and have seen a trend in Christendom... I fear there are too many people following 'earthly priests' and not our High Priest, Jesus Christ. I have seen it so often, I may jump to conclusions by your meaning of things.
Jesus Christ, by the way, will be the High Priest forever!!
You wrote:Lin, I also believe in the Priesthood of the Believer and that God’s Word is the absolute final authority -- period. When I said that SG is God’s man, I meant that I believe he was truly called of God to serve His sovereign will –"
And that 'Will' could be terrifying based on what we have witnessed so far if there is no true repentance.
I think of Jude 1 (ESV)
3Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
4For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were *designated* for this *condemnation*, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (Emphasis mine)
Read it all but pay close attention to verse 8.
All of Jude is about false teachers and worthy of intense study these days.
I also think of 3 John
9I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say.
10For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren, either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church.
What I find particularly interesting about this teaching is that John names this man in a letter for all to read for 2000 years. Paul did the same rebuking Peter.
What has happened at BBC is not one little mistake of heart it is direct and continual rebellion against the Word of God by those who should be afraid because they are teachers/elders. (James)
Grace and Peace of our Savior to you!
Hi Cakes,
Yes we do LOVE you!
Cakes by any other name is still
lovecakes to us.
fogmachine said...
Why would Ray Saba be paid a visit by Larry Ray and Mark Gates to silence him but BT be welcomed as a teacher?
Ray Saba is a Godly man who has stood firmly for truth and righteousness for several decades at Bellevue. Thank you Mr. Saba.
Did I read recently that Larry Ray has gone to a church on N. Perkins as their minister?
Someone please tell me, is Billie Tapp really a teacher at Bellevue?
If she is where?
"Cakes is a flaming liberal but he is OUR flaming liberal and we love him."
Talk about love worth finding! But the flaming part--I already have trouble convincing folks I'm not gay.
Cakes said
this statement from BLT is unuseful:
"Comfortable with my beliefs.
or
Convicted with the Truth.
There is a difference."
Piglet says:
I may be stepping on a land mine but....
I would hope that BLT was expressing her point of view in love - maybe an example would help:
Say your house is on fire but you don't know it. A neighbor knocks on the door and tells you the roof is ablaze and to get your kids out.
You are enjoying a relaxing afternoon on the couch with your favorite munchies and a ball game and the kids are amusing themselves, so you have no desire to leave.
In anger you tell your neighbor to mind her own business, that you are quite comfortable on your couch and do not wish to be bothered - that if she thinks there is a fire she should get to safety but you do not see a fire and aren't worried.
She might protest that you may be comfortable with your beliefs but she is convicted by the truth.
The end of the story is that you slam the door in her face because of her rudeness and go back to your couch where you lie in comfort until you fall asleep, are overcome with with smoke inhalation, and die.
In retrospect the neighbor was not rude at all, but sounding an alarm.
Just my take - but BLT can speak for herself.....
"Talk about love worth finding! But the flaming part--I already have trouble convincing folks I'm not gay."
Ok, 'flaming' was not a good choice to explain your political bonafides. (Our words are being stolen from us)
And, you have made it clear in the past that you are on the straight 'team'.
But I still contend you are not going to meet a proper Mrs. Cakes at the pool hall. :o)
Piglet,
Don't tip-toe around me; we're cool always.
That analogy would apply only if the person warning me the house was on fire spoke chinese or some other language I don't understand. I'm sure BLT knew what she meant, she just didn't take the care to telegraph it in the manner you just did. Actually, I don't think, in the context of that particular thread, it was for my benefit, but for others.
If you warn that someones house is on fire using aphorisms or parables, and it doesn't telegraph, then such is worse than if they'd got no warning at all, in my opinion.
"If you warn that someones house is on fire using aphorisms or parables, and it doesn't telegraph, then such is worse than if they'd got no warning at all, in my opinion."
How about that? Cakes just explained, in a nutshell, the serious problem with PDL, seeker, GCM methods.
And that's why we love him.
:)
Piglet said...
Cakes
Glad we're cool. I appreciate your contributions and your challenges to my vocabulary!
I wish the powers that be at BBC had your common sense.....
Mary
Hope you'll consider NASS's words to you....
hisunseenhand said,
I have all confidence in the Lord over Pastor Steve. Pastor Steve is a human just like you and I and therefore he makes mistakes just as you and I.
oc says:
Mistakes? Like you and I? I don't know about you, missy,or whatever, but I have never harbored a pedophile. I have never scaled a fence to intimidate a fellow believer. I have never misused church credit cards. I have never had a dream that prompted me to shame and 'amener'. I have never felt the need to be protected from a 15 yr old girl in such a way that I allowed my goons to 'subdue' her as if she was Bin Ladin. And that's not the whole list.
So, are you saying that both you and Steve have made these 'mistakes'? No wonder you are lobbying so hard for him. If I had done the same things he has, I would want them to be called 'mistakes' also. I sure wouldn't want to call those things SIN.
Just sayin.
oc
How is that Lin? Not being rhetorical. I honestly still don't know the danger there--what is contemplative prayer to the Christian; what are they doing with the lybrinth? Is it some sort of new age influence that is the offense?
Over the course of following this blog, I've been exposed to many opinions regarding church history, the adoption of alter calls and other disputed traditions, the various receptions to Calvinism, whether Catholics are Christians (are Mormons?), tithing, etc.
Seems like so much has always been in flux. From my days in church, the keen points seem to have been:
The inerrancy of scripture, though it's intepretation is in dispute.
The fall of man, inherited through the sin of Adam--thus God was born of a virgin in human form, thus free of Adam's tainted lineage, and sacraficed himself as a lamb to slaughter, in order to pay the debt for the inborn chokehold of sin upon all of humanity.
The gift of Christ is offered and is only viable by profession of faith and baptism by water.
The believers are to gather for worship, prayer and fellowship for all the obvious reasons.
There's probably more basics I've forgotten, but how is the PDL thing different on these or other fundemental beliefs?
Oh, and I don't go to the pool hall to find women. I'm addicted to the game, yo.
Cheers.
cakes wrote:
"The gift of Christ is offered and is only viable by profession of faith and baptism by water."
The baptism part isn't technically necessary. It's following Christ's example but not necessary for salvation.
"Oh, and I don't go to the pool hall to find women."
Oh, what a relief!
Nass said,
"Oh, and I don't go to the pool hall to find women."
Oh, what a relief!
oc says:
What, it's better that he's trying to find men? Just kidding, Cakes!
Piglet said...
SilentNight said...
Someone suggested the other day that we need to see the check register and bank statements for all of BBC bank accounts.
Is any progress being made is this area and if not why?
Piglet says:
BBC isn't going to surrender anything without a court order and the legal fees are staggering. DOESN'T MEAN IT WON'T happen - that's just why it hasn't yet.
10:21 AM, June 19, 2007
Piglet,
The fact is that members "sue" their Churches here in Memphis monthly. Just check downtown at the courthouse and find out for yourself.
Church lawsuits occur most all the time within the minority Churches. Just about every single time a judge or chancellor will grant the right to the plaintiff for review of records.
What's required is only someone willing to file suit and a little time with an attorney filling out the paper work. I might add that this is not at all a costly process and is really very simple.
Here's the problem. No one wants to put their name on the document to file suit.
Most people think of someone who files suit as someone who is sueing for money.
In this case, you could sue for "full disclosure" of financial records amoung other issues.
Also, it can be argured that letting certain members review materials and not allowing other members review the same materials or information would be a case for discrimination. No Church wants to go through that nightmare.
I believe most people view lawsuits in a negative way, which is far from the truth. Lawsuits are avaiable through the courts when different parties have failed to bring certain matters to clousure.
Most of us are familiar with Jay Sekulow a Christain attorney who files many lawsuits for Christians who have matters that cannot be settled.
Sueing for full disclosure and not for financial gain are entirely two different matters.
If anyone goes forward, please let it be for "full Disclosure".
Once this happens, in my opinion the Church will be happy to cooperate. I sure hope the Church will stop the way they are doing business so it doesn't have to come to this.
We just got our copy of The Messenger, the official publication of MABTS. The cover topic:
INTEGRITY...
Ministry in the Balance
Relevant Articles:
The B's of Integrity by David Pope. Briefly: Be honest; be courteous; be on time; be responsive; be accountable; be available; be pure. (Hey, Steve's punctual, at least. One outta seven ain't bad... wait, maybe it is.)
Integrity in Ministry: No Hidden Skeletons in your Closet by Dr. Bobby Mullins
Pastor Dad, Set Your Boundaries
A PK's (Preacher's Kid) Perspective by Melody Mullins
Integrity -- A Cross-Cultural Perspective
by an IMB missionary currently serving in a high-security area
From a Layman's Perspective: Why is it Important for a Pastor to be a Man of Integrity?
by Jimmie D. Williams, CFO, Belz Enterprises
Financial Integrity: "Is Borrowing a Sin?" by Jim Shoemaker
Along with these fine articles, a cigar in the punchbowl. Founders' Days speakers for August 20-22:
Dr. Steve Gaines, Pastor
Bellevue Baptist Church
Cordova, Tennessee
Dr. Robert Pitman, Pastor
Kirby Woods Baptist Church
Memphis, Tennessee
Dr. Herb Reavis, Pastor
North Jacksonville Baptist Church
Jacksonville, Florida
Cakes said:
This statement from BLT is unuseful.....
Had the writer taken the time or effort to actually say something of substance, engage the comments, even challenge me on my points, then I would take no offense.
Then Piglet got my back and said "I would hope that BLT was expressing her point of view in love - maybe an example would help".... and then provided a nice analogy with the burning house episode. [Thank you Piglet, you were so kind to provide more than a quip as I did.]
Then Cakes nailed it with
"I'm sure BLT knew what she meant, she just didn't take the care to telegraph it in the manner you just did."
BLT [NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH BT]replies:
Cakes, you are right, I didn't take the care in my response and ask for you and others to forgive my "shortness" with responses at times. A bad habit that I have had difficulty with all my life.
I will pray the prayer of Eprov: that God would bop me upside the head to create some brainwave activity.
Thanks for straightening me out!
BLT/Lily/Buzzard
I am absolutely floored that believing Jesus' resurrection really does change things is considered liberal! That cracks me up. What I meant by the honey is that Jesus' act of dying on the cross and breaking the power of death began in Jerusalem but has rippled out to all the nations down through the ages. Liberal theology does the exact opposite, renders Christ impotent - just a teacher. Jesus taught us to pray "thy kindom come. . . on earth as it is in heaven"
Mary, I applaud your zest for Biblical understanding - I too have dedicated much of my time and all my education (college and above) to studying the Bible. I would suggest that you reconsider your tone with those that you do not know.
I would love to address many things that were discussed but I just don't have the computer time. I usually only have the time to check in and make sure my mom's blood pressure is in check :)
The one thing I will say is - of course we still feel the effects of sin today but we must step back and look at the broader scope of history.
The enormous impact of the gospel/Christianity that began with such a small rag tag group of Jews cannot be overlooked. The vast amount of churches, hospitals, schools, strides in medicine, in science, in literature, in art, in justice within government that have their roots in the gospel should encourage us. The power of the gospel is real. This world went from having one small tribe of people worshipping the living God to people from every nation worshipping him - the darkness is being pushed back. As people's heart's are changed - their actions are affected and the world benefits.
Yes, things will be only finally be "right" when Christ returns but His resurrection initiated New Life. He is the first born over all the new creation and was the turning point of all history.
Growing up in the South but now living outside of it, I could say more about what I see as perversions in Southern Christianity but I want to be a part of something productive and encouraging here not the opposite. We need not let Satan use this blog to divide the Church.
all2jesus wrote:
"Along with these fine articles, a cigar in the punchbowl."
LOL! After the snub SG reportedly gave MABTS at the convention last week, he may want to make sure that entry in his "Day Runner" is in pencil.
I can admit it when I have acted like a child. I honestly do not know how my profile got twisted up but I did go in and change it. What I said about you seeing things crosseyed was my way of making a funny but you guys do not accept kidding from your opposition. I have told you before that you do not know me, I am a very outgoing friendly person who enjoys life. I look for the positives and listening to a lot of negative junk gets me going. My heart is to talk to you and get you happy but it just don't work.
Is this for real? Founders' Days speakers for August 20-22:
Dr. Steve Gaines, Pastor
Bellevue Baptist Church
Cordova, Tennessee
Well, maybe they invited him so as to learn exactly what his definition of integrity is, as it has been such an enigma since he arrived at BBC.
huh wrote:
"My heart is to talk to you and get you happy but it just don't work."
Awww, sure it does! You just made me spew water all over my keyboard with that statement!
Water Lily said...
Is this for real? Founders' Days speakers for August 20-22:
Dr. Steve Gaines, Pastor
Bellevue Baptist Church
Cordova, Tennessee
Well, maybe they invited him so as to learn exactly what his definition of integrity is, as it has been such an enigma since he arrived at BBC.
8:39 PM, June 19, 2007
Maybe they invited Gaines to be an example of what integrity is NOT?
sheepless,
It is true that Larry Ray is going to Evangel Baptist Church on Perkins.
Would someone please clarify if BT is a teacher at BBC?
No church needs someone like her in that position.
I wonder if she is teaching that it's ok for a sexual predator/pervert to roam the halls, and that people are just overreacting when they think that a child sex predator should be kept away from children, and that he should not be in a position to judge whether or not someone is fit to be around children.
She could do much harm with her ignorance and blind cult following of SG, and her willingness to step over the victim in all this: CW
And besides all that, she is an admitted LIAR.
I have never heard of Southern Christianity, much less the perversion of said Christianity. Would you please elaborate? Tell me what kind of Christianity that might be and is there an internet site where I might obtain info about it?
BT said
My heart is to talk to you and get you happy but it just don't work.
Piglet says:
Don't worry about me. I'm deliriously happy! :D
I've never been happier and God knows my heart when I say this. True, I am grieved over the injustices I've seen at BBC but the Lord really does provide peace in the midst of the storm and joy in the midst of sorrow.
It is in times like these that we see His faithfulness and that makes me joyful!
Southern Christianity has its differences than say, what you would find on Long Island. Not so much in theology, but the way it is applied.
Example of Southern Christianity taken to the extreme is the "church lady" from SNL (ala Dana Carvey).
You don't notice it until you are away from the South for a long time, then when you come back it sorta hits you in the face.
Water Lily.....
Are you correct on Steve Gaines speaking at Mid America?
Why would Mid America allow this to happen?
Who and Where the Trustees on allowing this to happen?????
Let's hold these men accountable to answer on this!!!!
I'm shocked and disappointed!!!!
SOTL asked "Would someone please clarify if BT is a teacher at BBC?"
I second that request. What age group? What class? How does one find out? I would like to visit that class.
ATM Machine,
Any Deacon that was never asked to come back on as an activr could file suit for discrimination as well.
Allowing who John C. like and doesnt like to return on as an active deacon is wrong!!!!
After SG's antics against Dr. Spradlin and MABTS, I am horrified to think they would have him as a keynote speaker. Surely there is a reason, but what could it be?
AS to Steve Gaines speaking at Mid-American, I am shocked too. Maybe they are practicing "turn the other cheek"?????
Water Lily
Thanks. I don't know who Dana Carvey is. I assume that SNL is one of the TV shows which I don't watch. I'll look it up. Thanks for the info.
Would anyone like to ask one of the trustees to give an account ? I think Gene H. is a Trustee.
water lily wrote:
"SOTL asked 'Would someone please clarify if BT is a teacher at BBC?'
"I second that request. What age group? What class? How does one find out? I would like to visit that class."
Here.
I understand one of the current officers attends Faith Baptist Church on Wednesday nights?
As to see the check register and bank statements for all of BBC bank accounts, ATM correctly stated thatChurch lawsuits occur most all the time within the minority Churches. Just about every single time a judge or chancellor will grant the right to the plaintiff for review of records.
What's required is only someone willing to file suit and a little time with an attorney filling out the paper work. I might add that this is not at all a costly process and is really very simple.
My 2 cents: it's not difficult, it's not rocket science, you can do it pro se without an attorney. If the statutes are referenced correctly against the ByLaws, the Judge will grant.
carol t. wrote:
"I don't know who Dana Carvey is. I assume that SNL is one of the TV shows which I don't watch."
Wouldn't do any good to watch it now. Dana Carvey hasn't been on it in years.
Read more here.
My 2 cents: it's not difficult, it's not rocket science, you can do it pro se without an attorney. If the statutes are referenced correctly against the ByLaws, the Judge will grant.
9:45 PM, June 19, 2007
That explains why they don't want to give copies of the by laws. They're afraid we will go to court
I say we take up a donation to buy NASS a new trolling motor.
So, BT teaches a Married Ladies class for the 30s age group. Well, would it be sinful for me to wear a fake wedding ring and not officially disclose my age? I could claim I am cross-eyed and can't read too good.
lol Lily.
Thats funny. You owe me a keyboard now :p
"I could claim I am cross-eyed and can't read too good."
Not necessary to make that false claim as I am actually, in truth, blind as a bat, and without contacts or glasses cannot see my hand at the end of my arm.
why said...
Posted: Any Deacon that was never asked to come back on as an active could file suit for discrimination as well.
Reply: PLEASE spare me!
9:48 PM, June 19, 2007
Why,
Please tell us the names of the Deacons or staff that handle this pick and Choose process?
I forgot this is the secret society.
Why is this committee not ever listed in Lay Ministry Committees book?
I'll tell you why, because you do not want member getting knowledge into the selection process.
I don't remember a time before Steve Gaines when a deacon was not rotated back into active status because he was ASKING HARD QUESTIONS.
Thanks NASS
I am shocked that Steve Gaines will be a keynote speaker at MABTS Founders Day.
Maybe it is a tradition for the Sr Pastor of Bellevue to speak and since he is still the pastor of our church, he'll be speaking simply because it is tradition.
Does anyone know?
To Power Outage:
don't waste your time or energy on responding to trolls. Just slam your head against the wall - it serves the same purpose.
sheepless,
Larry Ray according to David Coombs did take the pastors job at Evangel Baptist. Larry also preached there for about 10 weeks each Sunday morning during the month of March-May instead of being at Bellevue. Larry was in charge of Bible Fellowship. David Coombs also said the church only had about 30 members and didn't have any paid staff because there wasn't any money. The interesting thing is that David Coombs said they were going to pay Larry's salary and prop up the church for several years while it gets back on its feet. Does anyone know if Evangel is a Southern Baptist Church? I had heard from someone who was confident it was no longer a Southern Baptist Church.
Goodnite truthseekers.
Thank you to Mary and Lin who provided me with great new study material.
Thank you to my precious Lord who provided rain to my garden, flowers and grass.
P.S. to Billie T. - you will never know when I attend your class as I have years of practice preparing for the witness protection program.
all2jesus said...
We just got our copy of The Messenger, the official publication of MABTS. The cover topic:
INTEGRITY...
Ministry in the Balance
I just finished reading it ... some very good articles. The wording and examples used in Dr. Mullins' article would lead one to believe he had a particular pastor in mind ... :)
Along with these fine articles, a cigar in the punchbowl. Founders' Days speakers for August 20-22:
Dr. Steve Gaines, Pastor
Bellevue Baptist Church
Cordova, Tennessee
I was disappointed when I saw that, too...especially given the topic of the articles and that more than one of them applies very directly to issues with SG.
concernedSBCer said...
After SG's antics against Dr. Spradlin and MABTS, I am horrified to think they would have him as a keynote speaker. Surely there is a reason, but what could it be?
I know that BBC and MABTS have a long history, that Dr. Rogers traditionally spoke at Founders' Days, that Dr. Spradlin is still a BBC member, that BBC still supports MABTS financially ... and I suspect Dr. Spradlin has made efforts to "make nice" with SG, to be gracious, and to smooth over past conflicts. But knowing that Dr. Spradlin expressed the belief that SG should resign over the PW situation, it is hard to understand having him speak at the Seminary -- especially at their highest profile annual event. Perhaps someone who knows Dr. Spradlin could ask him to explain why, if he feels SG should have resigned, why it is ok for him to preach at MABTS?
P.S. word verification is "congo" ... is that a call to missionary service??
Cakes, I did not mean to offend you in any way. I guess I was thinking back to the banter we used to have on the blog and just picking up from there. I only tease those of which I am fond.
What I was trying to communicate before was that whether knowingly or not, you described what is wrong with Christendom today. We have more 'methods' than just commuicating the plain old Gospel message.
nathanb wrote:
"The interesting thing is that David Coombs said they were going to pay Larry's salary and prop up the church for several years while it gets back on its feet."
Say what?
"Does anyone know if Evangel is a Southern Baptist Church?"
According to the SBC.net website, it's not a Southern Baptist church.
Breaking my rules (and after my goodnite), but Why said
"It did become more detailed and extensive under Dr. Gaines".
Reply: More like derailed and expensive.
Junk,
Congo..
It could just be those snakes coming out again tonite.
I advised Power Outage not to waste time or energy responding to trolls and recommended slamming his/her head against the wall instead.
Will take my own advice. Head Slam. Goodnite.
water lily wrote:
"'It did become more detailed and extensive under Dr. Gaines'.
"Reply: More like derailed and expensive."
So true, buzzard, so true. Don't you just love the English language? LOL!
Carol T,
MY daughter is in a later time zone (with young children)and only posted because of our conversations about some specific concerns I had.
I certainly can't speak for her. I have never lived anywhere BUT the south. But just visiting her,meeting her church friends, learning from our talks, and visiting her church has broadened my thinking.
NOT in a liberal way ever!
She grew up a "Bellevue baby",
interned at BBC, JW introduced me not by my name but as her mom.
I was as proud as I could be if that was "my claim to fame"
I could never articulate what I have learned ...at least I would have to verbalize it and as she says,
what I have seen was not what she was referring to.
I will do my best to take some notes when she and I can talk about it specifically. BUT....
I have observed some of our southern ways muddy up our walk with the Lord....and even our witness.
Other areas don't seem to take it for granted like we in the south do.
...all this is from me not my daughter...
one particular "mission" work she does for teens....(not thru her church or denomination)
would NEVER lead those girls to the Lord if she used the "EE thing" and had them "pray the prayer".
I see her Christians friends really sticking together because they are not the norm.
I will get a better/proper response....I just wanted you to know she couldn't respond tonight.
"Southern Christianity has its differences than say, what you would find on Long Island. Not so much in theology, but the way it is applied."
Go to any Southern city, look in the phone book for all the 'protestant' churches. They are on every corner.
Go to, say, Seattle and do the same thing...harder to find. (When I used to go out on business, I had the hardest time finding a church...finally found one in Tacoma and that was back when I was a seeker! No one I worked with out there went to church. No one.)
Yet, most in the South will tell you they are Christians. It is like being a Democrat. Your daddy was a democrat, your daddy's daddy was a democrat...it goes all the way back to the civil war...this democrat thing. Baptist thing, too. It is very cultural.
This is changing, though.
"Cakes, I did not mean to offend you in any way."
Lin, I have no idea what you are talking about--you are always vey kind and thoughtful. You're alright in my book.
No worries, pal, or pal-ette. Ha!
Don't tip-toe around me, any of y'all precious folks. I'm thick-skinned (an art critic, you know)and have a diamond mind.
Diamoond mind AND favored one!!!!
DiaMOND
I haven't dia-mooned anybody in years.
Well, that cleared the room.
OC, Water Lily (sweet Lily)?
Where'd everybody go?
Cakes,
Won't ask what that is...but I am sure I haven't either!!!
Nighty
Don't let the bed-bugs bitey.
Wiles of The Devil ...
End times Deception in the World and in The Church ..by Roger Oakland
END TIMES DECEPTION AND THE WILES OF THE DEVIL
The invasion of The Doctrines of Demons enterring The Church..
Yoga Uncoiled: Radio interview of Caryl Matrisciana who details the full scale assault upon The Church via hindu occultism posing as "exercise ".
Thereare now over 20,000 yoga centers in the United States, and pastors and laymen are embracing these "gods" of the new age.
YOGA: UNCOILED
In case the Yoga link did not work..here is a direct link to the Crosstalk program featuring cult expert Caryl Matrisciana speaking on the invasion of Yoga into the Church.
YOGA: UNCOILED
Some interesting FYI this morning in "The Shelby Sun Times Germantown" newspaper, good front page reading:
1. Germantown opens books to the public.
Bellevue Baptist will not open their books to members who ask for them, we want to see where our tithes and offerings are spent, but it's none of our business! What is wrong with this picture??
2. East Memphis Churches earn high praise.
Despite the presence of BELLEVUE BAPTIST and Hope Presbyterian,
two of the largest churches in Shelby County, suburban Memphis TRAILS East Memphis in average church growth rate. Churches in East Memphis experienced a growth rate of about 30% from 1998-2003 while suburban churches had a growth rate of 21% during the same period.
The study found that churches such as Bellevue & Hope which offer a variety of activities, including recreational sports and support groups aren't necessarily growing faster than those churches that lack the financial ability to maintain such programs.
Churches with lots of programs do not grow significantly faster than churches with few programs. "Petersen said, "There are some people out there who believe that churches should FOCUS ON SAVING SOULS instead of having all these secular programs.
3. Crime strikes newspaper's office.
Similarly, HARRY SMITH of Schilling Enterprise found drawers open in his office, but nothing was taken.
Wonder how Harry (one of our esteemed Bellevue leaders) feels to be "violated". When it is up- close and personal it usually takes on a different meaning. JMHO
More on # 2:
Money is a factor, but it's not everything, Petersen said.
The study took into account "theology"
"CONSERVATIVE CHURCHES" in the Memphis area are growing at a faster rate than "LIBERAL" churches.
Most liberal churches are declining.
For more information: the study in its entirety will be published in the Review of Religious Research
Sheepless: Maybe the pendulum is swinging back again. Interesting.
Sheepless...good info!
Churchmouse....
so sorry you can't bowl with us next week!!!!
sheepless,
Really good reading! I looked for the newspaper on the internet, but they didn't have those articles. Can you post them in it's entirety? Thanks!
I speak from 1st hand experience - I've attended Hope in the past (enjoyed the coffee!), but I was required to go there as part of my recovery process. I was never a member. My point is this - there may be lots of people attending programs at Bellevue, but not all those attending will become members. It's a safe bet to say those who attend I2 more than likely aren't all members of Bellevue so while there are people who attend programs (sports, care groups, women's ministrty) that doesn't mean their membership (and thereby their tithes and offerings) is at Bellevue. So maybe there are too many noses and not enough nickels to support all these programs.
Karen: You've got mail.
With attachment! :)
Some have mentioned the "Starlight Spectacular" TV spots and how you wouldn't know it was a church-sponsored event. No mention of God or Jesus, and interestingly, no mention of "Baptist." How long before we see this?
NASS,
They're advertising on KIX 106, but nothing on KLOVE.
karen
Lin,
You said, "Yet, most in the South will tell you they are Christians. It is like being a Democrat. Your daddy was a democrat, your daddy's daddy was a democrat...it goes all the way back to the civil war...this democrat thing. Baptist thing, too. It is very cultural."
The Jews in Israel and Judah were culturally...well, Jews. Gods chosen people. But they did not follow God's commandments and statutes, they turned to idolatry.
A lot to be said there for us Southern Baptists. Are we really God's people that follow His commandments and statutes or do we call ourselves a Baptist, join a church and live the way we want to or the way that HE teaches in His Word?
Maybe we should ask the community and see what they think of our "doctrine". Would they say, yes you live differently, act and talk like christians, or would they say we live a life that is not consistant with the things you talk or preach?
I think we all know the answer....
Hisunseenhand, wow! where to begin. You state that PW was never officially charged.
Why not? Perhaps that was a family matter and those involved decided not to charge him. However, it is totally irrelevant if he was charged. Facts and Truth. PW did what he was accused of doing. Facts and Truth are not dismissed with a wave of the hand by you, with the fog machine of, you were not there. We didn't need to be there. They said it, he said it, it was confirmed.
As for sg, from what I have been told concerning the LAW, that it is a crime not to report a child molester. Why wasn't sg charged with that crime? I don't know.
As for your remarks about bullying, to my knowledge the only people that are bullied are those who do not agree with sg. And there have been many of those who not only have been strong armed and bullied but who have been intimidated. That is Fact. What that has to do with pw and your comment is irrelevant.
Doesn't it bother you when you say you have an explination and excuse for everything he does that is wrong? How many excused do you have to make for other men of God? Is there a constant stream of explinations and excuses for sin? Mistakes of the mind? Don't you see how that in itself is frightening?
Becareful of accusing those who are trying their best to discuss fact and make sense out of what is going on, as being hateful. Just because we don't agree with you you call us hateful.
I try to discuss only the facts and I also try to discuss them without any individual involved. I think we all try to bring what has happened and what is happening along side the Word of God and see if it is as you say "the Lord leading." In all these incidents, it has not been the Lord leading. The Lord does not condone lying to the sheep to cover up actions. I don't need to be there to know God hates lies. The Lord does not condone breaking of laws. We are to respect the laws of the land. So, I don't need to get personal when several laws of the land are broken and I can know it is not of God, no matter What the excues might be.
What is puzzeling is that you seem to think this is following God! Name calling is following God? I don't think so. Telling lies is following God? No, I don't think so. Telling everyone that doesn't agree with you to get out? No, I don't think God approves of that. I could go on and on.
Intimidating the head of a seminary is of God? No, it is arrogant sin.
Look around you Hisunseenhand, do you think once full seats in church that are now empty are God's leading" I don't think so.
Is it fear of loss or reguard for man over God, that causes you to not open your eyes?
"Maybe the pendulum is swinging back again."
Oi, first mother nature, then yoga and now pendulums.
Actually, Yoga, tai chi and qi gong have been very good for me to lose weight, besides having more energy and flexibility. Not everyone emphasizes the kundalini, I can tell you.
If you ever got runners high, or participated in some sport or exercise that is benefitial to both the mind and body--say footbag or the martial arts--then that is very much like the results of doing yoga.
If you've ever had to breath slowly and deeply, purposefully and conciously, in order to lower your heart rate and instill calm during a time of crisis or emotional upheaval--as I encouraged someone last night--that is yoga/ meditation.
It is recognizing that our spiritual, mental and physical well-beings are linked. The body is a vessel, but it is often that stress and afflicted emotions will actually impact our physical well-being. Yoga, or any kind of exercise, can have amazing benefits, not just to our looks and energy level, but to our mental and spiritual capacities as well.
I understand and support the notion that you don't want hindu mysticism in the church, but not all yoga emphasizes it. In fact, many hindus would call running a form of yoga, for its benefit to the mind as well as the body.
I'm not trying to be a contrian here, I'm just shocked that there can be so much lumping together.
Rod,
The explanation for why Steve Gaines had not
committed a crime by not reporting PW to the authorities was given to me PERSONALLY,
face to face,
by a deacon OFFICER
(with an air of pride on his face that a loop hole in the LAW had been found)
The EXCUSE...
when SG became aware that PW was a child molester
the victim THAT HE WAS AWARE OF
had turned 18.
From what I understood (and David can weigh in on this)that is actually a gray area.
I suspect the attorneys working to protect SG with funds from BBC
pushed the envelope on that one.
When I spoke with the asst. DA, PRIOR to BBC cooperating
but still communicating to the public they had not been contacted,
(direct contradiction from Keven R. when I spoke with him)
He said that SINCE he (Keven) had made them aware of the liability, leadership's claim was that SG had no idea WHAT the sin was
when PW confessed in his office...
we KNOW that is NOT true...
but maybe another reason SG refused to meet with the victim on several occasions....besides the ones we are aware of.
I have yet to hear one thing from leadership....or supporters following the script...
what efforts have been made by SG and his partners in crime to minister to the victim rather than make PW and SG's out to be the victims
BESIDES ignoring him???
To follow up on Gmom's comments, the very need for lawyers, and massive legal fees implicates the leadership, as does their unethical treatment of the victim.
He should have been allowed to address that business meeting, but it is easy to see that the leadership finds so much and so many as disposable, when it comes to protecting their own keisters.
Doing so is shameful.
Cakes,
I have no personal experience with yoga (except that deep breathing you recommended :))
BUT I have a really close friend that has used "hot yoga" along with tennis and Pilates to replace the addictions she had.
She tells me that (I won't say this just right so give me grace!)
when the others are doing whatever the mind cleanse thing is....she prays.
There was a time I would run away from any little thing I heard my church speak against....
but then I wouldn't be on this evil blog now if I still had that mind set :)
Concerned,
Hey, I was just funning--making a little joke about our tropes of speech, say "mother nature."
Man, I am obtuse.
Cakes: Yes you are!!! You're good at it too! :)
gmommy said...
but maybe another reason SG refused to meet with the victim on several occasions....besides the ones we are aware of.
This makes sense, if you don't meet with the victim, you couldn't know the truth..as "huh" says, half truth's are LIES!!
Karen,
I don't know how to post the entire article, I was quoting from my newspaper this morning. Sorry
Cakes said...
Actually, Yoga, tai chi and qi gong have been very good for me to lose weight, besides having more energy and flexibility.
Good point cakes. Yoga and pilates are great exercise & disciplines to promote overall good health. Improving your breathing brings more oxygen to the brain and other organs of the body, vastly improving general health and well being. Flexibilty helps prevent soft tissue damage.
Personally, I wish I knew how to do either of both, I've got the book on Yoga exercises and the pilates system..just doesn't work by osmosis.
Did I mention discipline, I need it!
Yeah,
I won't be trying that Hot Yoga; you're just paying for yoga in an unairconditioned room with a bunch of other sweaty bodies-pee-yoo!
What I hate about the yoga craze is that it is a fad, the perfect exercise to get a nice, um...(remember the mala bracelet fad? That's not jewelry in some places--it is on their bodies so it is handy) with no emphasis on the mental or spiritual benefit. It's just one more stop in the spiritual supermarket that has overtaken our culture, reduced to one more commodity and mark of ego-clinging.
We call it spiritual materialism.
Qi Gong is simpler to learn and any age group can do it. I was shocked one morning after seeing on CNN a doctor recommend an exercise very similar to one I had learned from a chinese teacher of Qi Gong years prior.
The practice I had learns used language that talked about a gentle bounce movement loosened the fascia gathered in the joints of the body--those that tended to become blocked, preventing the flow of energy.
The doctor said that the exercise promoted flexibility and circulation.
Don't let the cultural signifiers rob you of any benefit found in the underlying principles.
It's always bothered me that G'town Baptist has a Christian yoga exercise class.
Yoga-a school of Hindu philosophy advocating and prescribing a course of physical and mental disciplines for attaining liberation from the material world and union of the self with the Supreme Being or ultimate principle. (dictionary.com)
Call it Christian streching or Christian exercise. But, Christian yoga - I don't think so!
My goodness Cakes!!!
3:04 posts especially good!!
I don't sweat or contort while others watch but maybe I will get a video of what you were talking about!!!
And as far as the hot yoga stuff....if it helps my friend get the adreneline high she needs to stay away from the destructive stuff....great!
HEY!!!! Maybe we could form a blog friend walking club...at Shelby Farms or somewhere nice!!!!
I do walk while others watch....
AND
alltojesus could skateboard!!! FUN!
Lily and lynn could balance their bowling balls!
Well 2cents,
I went to dictionary.com and you only listed definitions 1 and 3, and ran them together as a single definition. The one you omitted says:
2. any of the methods or disciplines prescribed, esp. a series of postures and breathing exercises practiced to achieve control of the body and mind, tranquillity, etc.
Selective editing there.
my2cents said...
It's always bothered me that G'town Baptist has a Christian yoga exercise class.
Just curious, do they call it "Christian yoga exercise class"?
Why not call it what it is, nothing more, nothing less,
Exercise class with yoga disciplines. It can be good for your body and your mind without being bad simply because it originated from a different philosophy other than Christian, Baptist, etc. JMO
One can go overboard on just about anything and become what could be referred to as overly fanatical.
When you call your brethen "Christians," I'm sure you don't use the signifier as an appellation of reproach and mockery, as it was first intended by the Greeks or Romans.
Let's remember we had a blow out a couple weeks ago about "prayer walking" listed on another church's website. Remember, the church meant walking around the church, praying while the EC, PDL movements are now calling labrynth walking "prayer walking".
Mixing "yoga" with "Christian" is nothing more than falling for the New Age Mysticism (Secular Humanism-for those of you who are little older, like me!). I personally find nothing wrong with yoga as far as health benefits, as long as you don't open your mind to evil forces while you do it. But imagine this, if you tell an unsaved friend that you're going to "yoga class", will that hurt your Christian witness.
I could be overly "PC" here, but y'all will set me straight in love, right?
karen
Several years ago we did a study through the book, "kingdom of the Cults" and one point that was emphasized over and over was to define your terms. Words mean different things to different groups. As Christians (using the terminology of "followers of Christ")we must be aware of connotations and also to define our terms to others in a very defined, succinct way so as to minimize confusion. I know exactly what the church meant with their prayer walk but in today's climate, it means something different. Therefore, we need to be certain we define our terms and we also need to have others do the same.
Remember, scripture says, "Abstain from all appearances of evil." I Thes 5:22
I know....easier said than done.
Just heard the ad for the 4th of July thing at Bellevue - I made sure to listen to it.
It says "Bellevue" only and does not reference God in anyway. Talks about patriotic music and fireworks and games and food, but no reference to the pastor give a word from the Bible. Nothing!
Well, whatever I'll watch the fireworks from my house, but I'm not going.
Karen: You are right....in the past they've always said, "and a patriotic message from our pastor." Hummm.
"But imagine this, if you tell an unsaved friend that you're going to "yoga class", will that hurt your Christian witness."
Oh contraire, beautiful flower that is Karen, if your friend knows that you love her unconditionally and senses your compassion, then I cannot see it having any bearing on your witness. And hey, if she digs yoga, it might even help.
I don't like the term New Age, as it applies to eastern worldviews being assimilated into American culture, because yoga is not New Age, it's Bronze Age, like most of the spiritual traditions on the earth today.
There are authentic practitioners but much of what we see today--a friend deridingly calls them "crytal-smootchers"--is just self-styled spirituality, for whatever it's worth. My reception to it is, unless it harms another, live and let live.
Folks sometimes think if you are a Buddhist, or Hindu, that this is part and parcel of a new age thing. The world has gotten smaller and the world is struggling with a clash of cultures. People are cashing in on a kind of amalgam of eastern thought and other traditions--ooey-gooey middle-class spirituality that is as shallow as it is illusory, but it makes you feel better about yourself.
I probably would not have been exposed to the path I'm on, had the Chinese Government not invaded Tibet--tortured, murdered and imprisoned Buddhists and destroyed centuries-old monasteries and libraries; and otherwise running the Dalai Lama and others out of Lhasa. This exile brought them to the West.
If you demonstrate to others that you are the loving person that I know you are, and live by the principles you believe, then your witness speaks for itself.
Karen said...
Let's remember we had a blow out a couple weeks ago about "prayer walking" listed on another church's website. Remember, the church meant walking around the church, praying while the EC, PDL movements are now calling labrynth walking "prayer walking".
Churchmouse replies; yeah, I was here for that discussion. I have done some reading on prayer walking. The following is a fair representation of what I have found:
"Answer: Prayer walking is the practice of praying on location, a type of intercessory prayer that involves walking to or near a particular place while praying. Some people believe that being close to a location allows them to “pray nearer to pray clearer.” Prayer walks are taken by individuals, groups, and even whole churches. They can be as short as a block or as long as many miles. The idea is to use the five senses—sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch—to increase the intercessor’s understanding of prayer needs...
Prayer walking is a relatively new phenomenon, the origin of which is not clear. There is no biblical model for prayer walking, although since walking was the major mode of transportation in Bible times, clearly people must have walked and prayed at the same time. However, there is no direct command that this is something we should be doing. To believe that prayers offered in any setting, or while in any position, are more effective than those offered at another time or in another manner is not scriptural. We are commanded to “pray without ceasing” (1 Thessalonians 5:17) and God hears all prayers offered by those who abide in Christ (John 15:7), regardless of time, place or position. At the same time, there certainly is no command against it, and anything that causes or prompts us to pray is worthy." -- From gotquestions.org
Cakes said...
I probably would not have been exposed to the path I'm on, had the Chinese Government not invaded Tibet
I used to see those bumper stickers that said "Free Tibet" and I would think, "Cool, I like free stuff; where can I get some?"
I am going to weigh in on this...and I hope I get it out right!!
I have been big on "not causing my weaker brother to stumble"....and to be authentic with my children...(if an R rated movie was not fit for their mind...it wasn't fit for mom's mind either.)
and just for the record,I could watch anything I want now but seeing other people do private things or bodies blowing up is not my style of entertainment?
But today I feel like we are swatting flies.
In the big picture (especially the one staring us in the face!)
give me grace here.....
DARE we get all legalistic here?? Aren't we in danger of getting all twisted in surface,debatable,
interpretations and labels and missing the life altering,indisputable truth that makes all the other just stuff????
example....do I care if SG drinks a beer if he doesn't have a heart of integrity and love from the Lord???
I don't.
If Karen (just for example)is grounded in her faith and commitment to the Lord and His word....
does it change anything if she goes to yoga class???
Does it matter what we were taught to fear at BBC since many didn't learn to fear and reverence God and His word????
WHAT A MOCKERY that SG would be participating in anything connected to integrity!
Now THAT could make our weaker brother stumble!!!
How ridiculous to give the shallow, untrue, non thinking, reasons ...(all of them)....
for NOT exposing a sexual predator ANYWHERE, much less BBC
but that person who saw no problem with a criminal remaining a staff minister
NOW tells others what to do with their money! Or what to drink!!! This minister is not prudent with his own finances!!
This stuff is REALLY confusing.
Drink a glass of wine and go to yoga... but don't be
the example of a fraud and a mockery of what is true and honorable.
Don't rename things to rationalize wrong!!!
The heck with the small things if we aren't faithful to the truth.
If DC and all the gray haired men think SG is moral,upright, and above reproach...
how dare they look down on a divorced woman like she is a second class Christian!
How dare we give a flip about such fluffy debatable things in light of the false teaching at BBC and the "godly" men participating and all that have been harmed by this now and in the future!!!
That was well-said, Gmom.
Junk, now you know what that Free Tibet stuff is about.
Concernedsbcer,
Are you aiming that at me honey:)
Wow. "Gmommy" ate her Wheaties today! Regarding your 6:04 p.m. comment, well said!
Cakes said...
Junk, now you know what that Free Tibet stuff is about.
I already knew, I was just being obtuse to imitate my hero Cakes.
Hero-cakes ... I like that!
concernedSBCer said...
Earlier today there was some discussion about the Founder's Day program and about SG being part of the program. I did some asking around with some reliable sources and was told that these programs are planned and scheduled years in advance, certainly before all this stuff happened between BBC and MABTS. My guess is that Dr. Spradlin felt it important to keep his word with regard to the program.
It's true that the Founders' Days speakers are planned some time in advance. And I'm sure that whoever decided (Dr. Spradlin, or the Trustees) that SG should remain on the program have what they feel are good reasons. Maybe if someone asked Dr. S. directly, in the right spirit, he would explain it, if he is free to do so. But at this point I can't think of a reason that makes sense to me.
concerned said...
I did some asking around with some reliable sources and was told that these programs are planned and scheduled years in advance, certainly before all this stuff happened between BBC and MABTS.
I should have mentioned it, but we immediately did some checking as well and were given the same explanation, not that explainer was happy about it.
Ya think anyone will take notes while SG speaks about integrity????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
WatchingHISstory said...
Christian yoga is just an itty bitty sin of the head and not the heart!
So is crediting the Holy Spirit with visions that cannot be backed up with Scripture, and seeking to discredit God's work through His servants who don't agree with your theology in matters not essential to salvation.
Another sham...with Mid America backing it.
watchinghisstory...
Baiting a little? You are kind of obvious. Maybe you should try to cause your trouble in a more subtle way,,,like the serpent did. Take a lesson from Scripture, for a change.
Junk,
You sly old dog. Changed your name a bit, didn't you?
sheeplessatbbc said...
Junk,
You sly old dog. Changed your name a bit, didn't you?
I was wondering if anyone would notice!
Sly, old, and dog are all so appropriate ... do you happen to know me in real life?
Real life? I thought this was real life.
Silly me, I'll never tell.
Sleep well all you truthseekers.
sheeplessatbbc said...
Junk,
You sly old dog. Changed your name a bit, didn't you?
Junk said,
I was wondering if anyone would notice! I was wondering if anyone would notice!
oc says:
I noticed. But I work with adolescent offenders. I can tell attention seeking behavior when I see it. :)
Love ya Junk!
oc.
Karen,
Did you get my message or email?
oc said...
I noticed. But I work with adolescent offenders. I can tell attention seeking behavior when I see it. :)
Then you should know better than to encourage me!!
I can't remember what the issue was with a prayer labyrinth but I remember there was a big outcry against anything like it being used at Bellevue. Is that what was planned for Bellevue? or something like that?
bugsii said...
I can't remember what the issue was with a prayer labyrinth but I remember there was a big outcry against anything like it being used at Bellevue. Is that what was planned for Bellevue? or something like that?
bugsii, I think it was rumored as being on the table as an option, but I don't recall anything definite being confirmed.
Anyone but me find it ironic that the BBC billboard on I-40 at Appling says this:
" Live in Harmony with One Another"
?
It reminds me of "We Are the World, We are the Children"
SOTL,
Drove by that yesterday and had the same thought you did! About veered off the road as I was laughing!
Harmony = unity, but Unity does not mean lockstep, unabashed worship of the one in charge. Unity means giving up your ego and your wants to get along with the rest of the group. Unity does not mean "my way or the highway".
karen
I have tried to pass on this one, but just can't. I have just gone to the blog which NASS afforded us all on this thread...the one on idolatry. This 'showcase' of Donna Gaines is very sad indeed. And whoever came before it...whoever has been encased in this shrine; people, this is wrong. Somewhere along the road, people at Bellevue have gotten their priorities out of order. Mrs. Gaines, herself, should have never allowed this...nor anybody else who has been showcased. I don't care who it has been, is, or will be...this is wrong. Where in the Bible does it tell us to worship man?
I attend a church where a former first runner-up to Miss America is the pianist. She is also married to the pastor. Her greatest trait is that of being humble. In this church, there is no showcase. No mention is made of anybody's accomplishments. There are no pictures aligning any walls. The tiari's and memoribilia are not there. There are wallhangings, beautiful tapestry wallhangings...filled with scripture glorifying God. That is it. This is as it should be.
There should be no room for pride in God's house. It should be Jesus plus nothing.
"The Jews in Israel and Judah were culturally...well, Jews. Gods chosen people. But they did not follow God's commandments and statutes, they turned to idolatry."
Ez, I was reading a sermon by one of the old dead guys (wish I could remember who) and he said that we sometimes assume that ALL Jews in OT times before Christ went to heaven because they were the 'chosen'. He said that is not so unless they lived by Faith.
I have not really studied this but thought that was something to look into.
imaresistor,
Steve Gaines, David Coombs, and the rest of the Elders have completely lost their compass. That's the problem with telling lies for so long. After a while, you start to believe your own lies and you cause others to do the same.
The climate now at Bellevue has changed so much, there is no discernment for right vs. wrong. That's why the showcase steering people's thoughts inside Bellevue to Donna and Steve instead of Jesus exists.
You are correct; it should be Jesus plus nothing.
The longer this goes on, the more we will see poor judgment. The billboard now showing is another example of a mistake of the head and not the heart. It reminds me of a bunch of angry men who want to have the last say so they erect a billboard where everyone goes by and has to see it. In reality, it shows more arrogance and intimidation from a bunch of angry men. I think Steve gets very angry when he looks out over the crowd and sees more empty seats staring at him than he does people. I could think of a lot of billboard messages that would be more effective for the Cause of Christ.
His personality requirements cause him and the ones who surround him to keep the focus on him instead of Him.
Why not just go all the way?
Fogmachine...
Yes...the discerners are gone.
Fogmachine,
Everytime I see your name, it reminds me of the Wizard of Oz:
"Pay no attention to the man behind the screen..."
Don't know why - it just does. :)
karen
The verse on the I-40 billboard is this "Live in harmony with one another".
If you read the rest of the verse, I think you'll see that Bellevue missed the mark again. I'm holding back tears right now thinking how arrogant a person would have to be to post only the 1st part of the verse totally out of context the 2nd part of the verse. See various Versions below:
Romans 12:16
(New International Version)
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
(New King James Version)
Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
(King James Version)
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
(New American Standard Bible)
Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation.
karen
Karen,
This is what happens when you loose your compass and the ability to discern.
Is it junk or oc who says:
just sayin'.....
karen
Who wants to contribute to rent the next billboard and put the whole verse in it's entirety up?
I've got a few bucks to spare - let's do it!
Karen wrote:
"The verse on the I-40 billboard is this 'Live in harmony with one another'.
"If you read the rest of the verse, I think you'll see that Bellevue missed the mark again. I'm holding back tears right now thinking how arrogant a person would have to be to post only the 1st part of the verse totally out of context the 2nd part of the verse.
"Romans 12:16
(New International Version)
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited."
If that weren't so pathetic, it would almost be funny.
Reminds me of this:
Jeremiah 6:14
They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially,
Saying, 'Peace, peace,'
But there is no peace.
Has anyone seen the billboard at Summer and Sycamore View. I've seen it, but I can't remember the verse on it.
(I don't usually bring cut-and-paste to the blog, but I just read this short devotional on christianresearchnetwork.com and thought it was relevant to the situation at BBC)
And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. (Exodus 34:8)
I have said it before and I will say it again: This low concept of God is our spiritual problem today. Mankind has succeeded quite well in reducing God to a pitiful nothing!
The God of the modern context is no God at all. He is simply a glorified chairman of the board, a kind of big businessman dealing in souls. The God portrayed in much of our church life today commands very little respect.
We must get back to the Bible and to the ministration of God’s Spirit to regain a high and holy concept of God. Oh, this awesome, terrible God, the dread of Isaac! This God who made Isaiah cry out, "I am undone!" This God who drove Daniel to his knees in honor and respect.
To know the Creator and the God of all the universe is to revere Him. It is to bow down before Him in wonder and awesome fear. MMG079-080.
"Lord, I’m struck this morning with a sense of awe in Your presence. I bow before You myself in ‘wonder and awesome fear.’ Amen."
(A.W. Tozer, Tozer on Christian Leadership, June 21)
FROM SOCWORK'S POST:
"To know the Creator and the God of all the universe is to revere Him. It is to bow down before Him in wonder and awesome fear."
Ima said: Socwork, thank you for posting this. What we see today and those before us have seen it as well, is a mockery of God. The things we are seeing today in the churches is sacrilegious. (sp?)Meaning of course, the churches where God doesn't seem to be enough for them.
HEY STEVIE BOY:
Just in case you bother to read your Bible anymore, read this and weep:
1"(A)Woe to the shepherds who are (B)destroying and scattering the (C)sheep of My pasture!" declares the LORD.
2Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning the shepherds who are tending My people: "You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them; behold, I am about to (A)attend to you for the (B)evil of your deeds," declares the LORD.
3"Then I Myself will (A)gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply
4"I will also raise up (A)shepherds over them and they will tend them; and they will (B)not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, (C)nor will any be missing," declares the LORD
Oh,
Jeremiah 23:1-4
Lin,
I agree with your (old guy).
Many of the "Jews" in the OT were Jews by birth only. Nationality. Ancestors. The only "Jew" that was "saved" in the OT was the spiritual "Jew". The spiritual seed of Abraham, Isaac. The children of the promise. Saved by Faith and faith alone. Gen 15:3-6
Being born a Jew did not assure them of being "saved" any more than being a gentile grafted in means that we are saved by being a gentile. (Romans 11)
One only has to read the prophets to see just how angry God was with the Jews and what He did to the unfaithful. Killed them, they wound up in sheol...hell. But there was and is a remnant...
The fact is, we have professing Gentiles today just as there were professing Jews in the OT. They won't see heaven either. The OT Jews professed and claimed to be God's people yet worshipped idols and turned from Him. Professing "Christians" are worshipping idols and turning from Him.
Jews, and Jews only are going to heaven. God's chosen people. The elected. Children of the promise. The seed of Abraham,Isaac, Jacob.....
Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision
2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
Jew or Christian in name only profits you nothing!
IS YOUR HEART CIRCUMCISED? DO YOU WORSHIP GOD AND GOD ALONE? THAT IS ALL THAT WILL GET YOU TO HEAVEN.
Christ came to fulfill the law. Something that no one ever did until He did. His message was "circumcise your heart". Love your neighbor, love one another. Worship Him. God alone. Repent of your sins and follow His commandments. The same message we get from the OT. But this one was delivered in person.
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