Tuesday, March 20, 2007

March 25th Meeting

Be sure to tune in! Mrs. Joyce Rogers is scheduled to be on Dick Bott's "The Complete Story" broadcast on WCRV radio AM640 today at 3:00 p.m.


Special Ministry Celebration Service and

Annual Congregational Meeting

March 25, 10:00 a.m.

A Ministry Celebration service will be held Sunday, March 25, at 10:00 a.m. This will be a special time as we look back and celebrate the ministry victories of 2006. There will be no Bible Fellowship, and overflow seating will be provided in the Fellowship Hall.

This Worship Service will be followed by the Annual Congregational Meeting. Items to be discussed are:


  • Nominations from the Committee on Committees for members to serve on all church committees

  • Presentation of the church’s proposed budget for fiscal year 2007-08 from the Budget Planning Committee in conjunction with the Finance Committee

  • Any other business properly the subject of consideration by the congregation may be brought forward at this meeting

Even if you're attending a different church but haven't moved your membership, please plan to be there this Sunday, at least for the first annual meeting portion.

764 comments:

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upside down said...

Amy, is your husband's name John?

You are correct in the proper way. One must stick to factual, non inflammatory speaking to be effective. The meeting is not a place to make statements.

Anonymous said...

Brady,

We offer this to you in The LORD Jesus' love.

Dr. Rogers is not here on earth to answer your charge so it is best to keep silent before God and man on this.

Since there is no way of obtaining an answer directly from Dr. Rogers on this side of Glory, you may, before God, be found to be an accuser of the brethren (as satan is) if God knows that what you are saying (or implying) is false.

Rebuke your thoughts and forget them. God is watching...and as you can see by what has happened (and is happening) to Gaines and Co., God certainly is not playing with any of us.

You don't want to anger The LORD Jesus since your own chastisement by The LORD Jesus will follow. He does chastise those He loves. That "whippin' in the wood shed" won't be pleasant, Brady. ALL of God's true children have "been there and done that" and the memory of it is burned in the memory as long as this life lasts!!! Let us thank God for His "wood shed". He takes us there out of His love and mercy and faithfulness towards His true children.

The FEAR of The LORD is the BEGINNING of wisdom.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

sheeplessatbbc said...

Brady,

I respectfully request you remove your post mentioning a certain name and speculating on something you know nothing of.


We know Steve Gaines knew about PW, by his own admission and the investigative report.

If a particular someone else knew, we would not be in this Mess today, it would have been dealt with swiftly and completely. If you don't know that, you don't know that person.

Please anyone referencing a particular name, it would be respectful to all of us to remove that post.

Thank you.

Charlie Fox said...

junk99mail said...
charlie fox,
You've stated that according to Robert's Rules of Order, the only way a church can have a meeting that includes members in overflow seating in another room connected in via video conference is if the by-laws state this can be done (which BBC bylaws do not). Plus you said that if a ruling on procedure from the parlimentarian is desired, the moderator or a member must request it. So...if overflow seating is used, what would be the appropriate timing and method and wording for a member to request a ruling on the validity of the meeting? And what would happen if the parlimentatian ruled that it was out of order? Would that require an immediate cessation of the meeting? Or could the parlimentarian rule that it was acceptable to continue with the meeting even if the meeting was in violation of the rules? Or can the moderator and/or members of the meeting choose to ignore or override the parlimentarian's ruling and choose to proceed even if there is a ruling of a violation? In essence, I'm asking what are the rules about what should happen if the meeting itself is found to be in violation of the rules? Or am I straining at gnats?

REPLY:

The appropriate timing would be up to the individual asking for the ruling. It would be done by calling a "Point of Order", stating the objection to a split assembly, referencing and reading the appropriate section in RRoO, then asking for a ruling from the parliamentarian. The correct action would be to declare the meeting invalid, but who knows what will happen. The parliamentarian CANNOT make exceptions to RRoO, nor can he "enforce" RRoO. He is only there to provide guidance in the correct use of RRoO.

JU said...

So,

I've been absent for several weeks from this forum. I come back to find that there's going to be a celebration this weekend. What is there to celebrate? As I'm sure I'm echoing many people's thoughts. I read the agenda that was posted. The one and only thing out of that whole agenda that matters to the leadership are these words: "Majority Rules".

Friends, we've known from the beginning that many at BBC are blinded to the troubles. All the standing O's everyone had to sit through were evidence of that blindness. I know without a shadow of a doubt that the majority will rule at BBC this weekend and the status quo will be upheld. More over they will put one of the final nails in the coffin of this movement for more transparency. They'll have done the compulsory business meeting using their majority rules meeting rules. Further enabling them to silence their critics.

All of that to say. It's going to be very difficult for a lot of you to accept but BBC is going in the wrong direction. The Lord led my family to stop going due to these problems. Soon after this meeting I feel that the Lord might lead a lot of you in that same direction. Some of you will be led to stay on and continue to fight to restore BBC. I will applaud you for that however futile I think a mission it might be at this point. Some of you are spiritual warriors and on the front line of a conflict like this is where you belong. Many of us however are not.

My family will not be attending Sunday. BBC is lost as long as SG and the current leadership are at the helm. The reasons are too numerous to list here but if you post on this forum you should know them by now. Our distention no matter how much we want it to will not amount to the majority that will rule Sunday. Some will say but you should still show up. No, no you shouldn't. To show up only to agonize over the fact that the administration has setup the rules in order to foil any attempt to bring the church back to the biblical course it should be on is an exercise in futility and punishment I will not subject my family to.

So, I will be saying farewell all together to BBC. I had the sad duty of telling my nephew last night that no we wouldn't be going to BBC for easter Sunday but we'd find some place. And we will.

MOM4 said...

If the blind majority rules Sunday, it most definitely will be a nail in the coffin of Bellevue.
That is unless the Lord removes Steve Gaines AND the corrupt leadership that is promoting an unholy alliance.
I would not wish God's wrath upon anyone, but I see no other alternative. They have stored up for that day, some thru willful neglect and some thru malicious plotting, some thru stubborn anger and some thru lack of discernment.
Many will leave and that will be well and good with the leadership. It is Steve and Donna's agenda - always has been - run off those who question your unholy motives and you are left with the lapdogs who want their ears rubbed.

MOM4 said...

brady said...
"I hope we all behave on Sunday. It would be a disgrace to the Lord if we didn't."

I don't think we are the one's that will disgrace the Lord. The sham is the way the "meeting" has been set up. The motives of having it on Sunday morning following a special hour and a half show is questionable at best. They are not serious about getting to the truth, they are trying to cover it up. David Coombs has added to the troubles instead of bringing accountability.

Unknown said...

mom4,

I agree - this is IT! I don't wish wrath upon anyone either, but God is GOD! He can do what He wants, when He wants. If God wants Bellevue run this way, then I will get out of the way. And I promise when BBC is run into spiritual oblivion, I won't say 'I told you so'".

karen

Piglet said...

If after this Sunday, we see the Lord is allowing BBC to sink under the weight of her own unrepented sins, we will have to load into our life raft and float away.

As we watch from a distance, the great vessel slide into the sea, we will be filled with sorrow.

But alas, we stayed and fought while we could to right her and keep her afloat. We will have no regrets.

watchman said...

Woe unto the shepherds who profess a false vision and a dream which The Lord did not send to them.

Jeremiah 23:11 "For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD." (V.16-17) "Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a "vision of their own heart", and "not "out of the mouth of the LORD. They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have "peace"; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you." (V.21-22) "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings." (V.25-28) "I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart. Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal. The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD." (V.32) "Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD." (V.36) "For ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God."

Who needs VISIONS and Dreams

WE HAVE GODS REVEALED WORD
A SURE FOUNDATION

Come Out from among them ..

jUDGEMENT FALLS

sheeplessatbbc said...

NASS,

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for all the months you have kept this blog running smoothly and efficiently.
You have operated from a fair position at all times. You have given all of us the means to express our deepest feelings and hurts and helped us make it thru yet another day even when we just wanted to walk away and give up. Thank you for all your tireless efforts, you have done more for us and the cause of Bellevue Baptist Church than you will ever know.

If people who are critical of the blog would just read it for a few days they would have such a revelation of truth that our wonderful church could be steered back on the right course. I personally had no idea what a blog was, had never even heard the word blog, until Steve Gaines himself mentioned it from the pulpit.

God does work in mysterious ways.

NASS, You are a precious fellow Christian and you are loved by many.

I will be there Sunday. I hope everyone will be there and be counted. This may be the last chance for awhile to try to change the course of Bellevue Baptist Church.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT LOVES BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE SUNDAY. WHATEVER THE OUTCOME, YOU WILL KNOW AND GOD WILL KNOW THAT YOU HAVE STOOD BY YOUR CONVICTIONS, YOU HAVE STOOD FOR INTEGRITY.

MOM4 said...

Karen,
I am in total agreement. I believe the Lord will allow them to continue in sin to their own demise or open the eyes of the blind to restore His church. You know, He put Steve Gaines flat on his back once before, HE could very well do it again if there is continued sin from the pulpit and leadership. I do not want to be there when HE decides to clean house....I would rather see repentance.

imaresistor said...

truth rules said...
"I believe this to be a matter of great concern. When the service has concluded, are the non-members going to be dismissed? Anybody know? How about this Charlie? Anything in RRoO on this?"
Wrote Ima"

Truth rules,
Little problem here in that I did not write "I believe this to be a matter of great concern." The person to whom I made my remark after that sentence had typed this in...not me. I was replying to that remark myself. Little confusion here. Anyway...

You said, "Ima, not Charlie, but there is no way to separate members from non-members without a role call. How do you see this as a matter of great concern? The non-members would not make enough of a difference in a vote to matter unless there is a vote which is close. In that case some could call for a ballot vote where all voters receiving ballots would have to establish their membership. The church database would be that basis."

See truthrules, I just don't believe the non-members should be in the business meeting. (1) Is there a reason for them to be there? (2) No reason to create any confusion as to whether a non-member has voted. As should not happen.

I have known of this to happen in a similar situation. If you have followed my posts on this blog, you will understand what I mean.

I'd really hate to see any cause for confusion and conflict.

My question to Charlie, and you too if you know the answer, is if the RRoO prohibits non-members from the business meetings where a vote is to be taken.

I personally greatly approved of GBC's protocol on voting when they were going through a simiilar thing.

Basically, there should be no cause given for any confusion. Everything needs to be clear, concise, upright, and TRANSPARENT!!!

imaresistor said...

gmommylv said, "BTW,can we trade names....imaresistor too."

gmommy...you can be 'imaresistor2' There can't be more than one 'imaresistor' and that would be me. *grinning* My first blog name on here was 'beentheredonethat'...and though it served my purpose, I didn't like it. So, I kept thinking and BAM! it hit me like a ton of bricks! I am a resistor=imaresistor! And then when you folks started calling me 'Ima', I knew it had worked! One of you emailed me privately and said, "Oh! Now I get it! You ARE a resistor!" I loved that! *grinning again* My husband got a charge out of this too...he sometimes calls me 'Ima' these days. Kinda cute don't you think? So, I don't blame you for wanting my name! It fits everybody in here...especially any of you who have taken a definitive stand! Get 'em!!! *bigger grin this time*
So...if I see a post from imaresistor2, I guess it will be you, huh!

sheeplessatbbc said...

TO ALL YOU WONDERFUL BLOGGERS...


Thanks to all of you who have shared your pain in order to ease anothers.

So many of you are so wise in the Word, you have imparted so many appropriate verses and at just the right time to help promote healing, encouragement and even to provoke thought and prompt us to get into the Word of God.

Amos, I don't know if you are lurking or not, but you were a very valuable part of this blog for a long time, thank you for your love of our Lord.

Cakes, in your infinite wisdom you have given inspiration and you have so readily challenged the dissenters with such directness and honesty. So many times you have made us laugh. Please, do not allow the actions of some Christians give you a negative feeling of Christianity. We love you and God loves You.


So many bloggers have faded into the background or just gone away, maybe you too are lurking, all of your input has had a tremendous impact on the work of this mission for Bellevue Baptist Church. Your input has helped many eyes be opened to the truth.

To all the dissenters..even you have been of great value, not your goal I'd imagine. You have made many realize the depravation and evil that is lurking within the halls of BBC and how very low leadership will stoop to cover up the truth, protect the guilty, persecute the innocent and defy the law. As Dr. Lee said.."Payday, Someday"!!!!!!!!!!!!
You should all listen to his tape.

Our BBC family is suffering greatly; many of us have been able to get some of the pain out just by voicing our concerns here rather than letting it boil and fester and work away at us like an undetected cancer.

Those of you who have been down this road before us, I am so sorry for your pain and the struggles you have already faced. We are grateful to you for all your seasoned experience and your willingness to share with us and to offer advice and suggestions on how to handle the many situations that have and may continue to arise. Your past experience and your sharing of it has been invaluable to our healing and to our understanding of the inner workings of our issues at BBC.

I remember when GBC was going thru their great turmoil and feeling concern and sorrow for their church. I was also grateful, and maybe a little proud..Yuch, I said it.. for my church, BBC, and very grateful that we did not have "those" problems. I thought we were stronger than that..LOOK AT US NOW!! How could we have stooped so low in such a short period of time? And GBC was only the tip of the iceberg according to what we are going thru at BBC? God saved their church, maybe he will save Bellevue!!

MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH.

imaresistor said...

All...

James' post just reminded me...whatever you do, MAKE SURE this business meeting is taped in its entirety! Take your recorders with you. My husband's nephew took a small mini-cassette recorder with him that fateful night of April 5, 2006, when they bashed us and had he not done that, we'd have nothing of it! It was horrible. And we do have it on tape. I hope your business meeting is nothing like ours, but you never know. Be prepared. Be sure to tape it!

AT that business meeting, people cheered, jumped up in their seats and twirled around, clapped, raised hands and arms in praise for our demise, their jubilance was repugnant. I'm sorry I don't have a video of it. And the church was packed...normally there would have been sixty people at the most. That night it is estimated to be close to 600 people. So be ready...they do their homework. Of course, we were the only ones who didn't know this was coming off. Secrecy. So...that is why I say be prepared...for anything.

Charlie Fox said...

imaresistor said...

My question to Charlie, and you too if you know the answer, is if the RRoO prohibits non-members from the business meetings where a vote is to be taken.

REPLY:

At the beginning of a business meeting, the moderator should ASK all non-members to leave. However, with this request, non-members are NOT required to leave. If the moderator declares that the business meeting is in "Executive Session", then ALL non-members are REQUIRED to leave. If the parlamentarian is NOT a member, then he would be REQUIRED to leave also.

watchman said...

To The Saints which are at Bellevue

Rejoice: The king is Coming

I , like you , have seen and borne the inscrutable pain and misery of witnessing a church being wrenched from its' place of holiness and Scriptural integrity and watching arrogance and ego fill its decks by careening headlong into church growth philosphies and worldly pragmatism.

I extend these blessed wishes for you all who Love TRUTH (JESUS )

I wish you:
A time of renewal and refreshing in a gathering where Jesus is LORD and His WORD is honored.

I wish you
A shepherd rather than a hireling

I wish you
A shepherd who would rather feed and nurture GODS sheep than brutishly cause harm to even one.

I wish you
A shepherd who is faithful to GODS WORD , and is not wise in his own eyes, nor chuckles about how he arrogantly silences discerning sheep who rightly oppose Unbiblical compromise, sin , and error.

I wish you
Supernatural strength

I wish you
Godly wisdom

I wish you
Persevearance , and longsuffering Faith ..that remaineth to THE END

I wish you
Comfort in the midst of sorrow

I wish you
Remembrance of Great reward in heaven

I wish you
Holy Spirit calm and peace for March 25th, for GOD is your refuge for all eternity, not a building.

But

Most impotantly;
I wish you

THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS

WHO HAS OVERCOME THE WORLD

Pray Pray Pray

And Be STRONG IN THE LORD

Unknown said...

2 Samuel 6:3-6

3 They placed the Ark of God on a new cart and brought it from Abinadab’s house, which was on a hill. Uzzah and Ahio, Abinadab’s sons, were guiding the cart as it left the house, 4 carrying the Ark of God. Ahio walked in front of the Ark. 5 David and all the people of Israel were celebrating before the Lord, singing songs[a] and playing all kinds of musical instruments—lyres, harps, tambourines, castanets, and cymbals.

6 But when they arrived at the threshing floor of Nacon, the oxen stumbled, and Uzzah reached out his hand and steadied the Ark of God.

7 Then the Lord’s anger was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him dead because of this. So Uzzah died right there beside the Ark of God.

See what happens when you do too much celebrating? God proves He will take you out!

karen

Unknown said...

imaresistor,

I don't know what it says in Robert's ROO, but I do know that when Germantown Baptist voted to keep Mike Spradlin on as Interim Pastor, they just asked all non-members and visitors to excuse themselves. There's no harm in doing this and if non-members want to stay, it's no big deal to me. Sounds like there will be a time between the "celebration" and the "business meeting" for parents to go get their kids, so that would be the opportune time for those not interested in business or visitors or whomever to get up and leave without being embarrassed or calling attention to their departure.

karen

imaresistor said...

Thanks Charlie...
Thanks Karen...

Let us just suffice it to say that there have been times such as these, that non-members have voted, came with the intention to vote, enticed to vote...and this should not happen. If they are excused after the celebration (?)services, only those who are actually allowed to vote (the members) remain. That is the point I am trying to make and am not doing a very good job of it.

Unknown said...

ima,

I think I understand your point - how can you tell who's a member and who is not (with out calling a roll, like you said before).

Also, this may be stretching a point, but they don't ask if you've repented of all sin before taking the Lord's Supper - it a personal choice and between you and God. I guess if a visitor REALLY wants to vote with the members, there's no real good way to prevent it.

karen

WatchingHISstory said...

I wish you
A shepherd who would rather feed and nurture GODS sheep than brutishly cause harm to EVEN ONE.

I wish you
A shepherd who is faithful to GODS WORD , and is not wise in his own eyes, nor chuckles about how he arrogantly SILENCES discerning sheep who rightly oppose Unbiblical compromise, sin , and error.

David Hall said...

Ok, here’s Amy’s motion, with some dressing up by moi. You don’t want to use antagonizing expressions, but nor do you want to neuter the message either. You have to be specific enough, so that no one will have any question as to what you refer; and you have to cut off at the pass any justification they might slum (like, “the PCIR”).

My name is...

In light of recent circumstances, there has been a lot of speculation and confusion amongst Bellevue membership regarding the efficacy, integrity transparency and accountability of its leadership. For the sake of authentic closure and and/or reconciliation, it would be in the best interest of the entire church if members get their questions answered directly, instead of what may be gleaned from the lectern, a letter, the abbreviated scope of the Personnel Committee’s Investigative Report, or the media.

Thus, I move that we set up an open forum between interested members and the administration, along with the Senior Pastor. The moderated Q&A session—on Sunday ______, at 6pm—seeks direct exchange with leadership concerning the legitimate issues that devoted Bellevue members may have. Only questions taken from the floor that day will be entertained and a professional moderator will be employed to maintain a respectful and orderly atmosphere.

Minutes will be taken and a transcript of the forum provided to all members who request it.

WatchingHISstory said...

Psalms 43:3 said

"The issue of whether Dr. Rogers knew about a child molester on staff has already been answered. If you don't believe Mrs. Rogers, the committee who investigated the matter, or the offender himself I guess you can't be persuaded."

Since you brought the subject up it needs to be addressed.
I believe that Dr. Rogers did not know and that has been established.
The real problem is why didn't he know for so many years. Was the pedophile that smart? Could he pray and counsel with so many people and no one discerned a fierce and vile spirit. Naturally a man can be fooled and not discern in his mind such an evil.

But we have the mind of Christ and the Spirit of Truth. When God is manifested in our midst, unbelievers have the secrets of their hearts open and they fall on their face. Where has this been at Bellevue?

I know for myself and all the people I have fellowshiped with that when I have sinned or others sin there is a troubling of Spirits. While none of us are perfect we have the perfect one working with us to bring us toward perfection.

Was the pedophile allowed by God to freely roam the halls and his voice be the voice of God in a friece and strange speech which cannot be comprehended.

The understanding is given to the tender and the meek, precept by precept. The self determined will not hear nor understand. They can't give a distinct sound to prepare the faithful for battle.

Where are the tender and meek at Bellevue? Are there any at all?

Please don't tell me to keep silent before God and man on this. Silence is what got you into this mess.

Unknown said...

I've been asked by IDC to let you know about this new documenet on the website: http://intergritydoescount.com/gpage.html

If this doesn't work go to www.integritydoescount.com, click on Wise Responses and read the document.

If you have any questions, please contact info@integritydoescount.com

Thanks! Karen

allofgrace said...

I can only speak for myself, but this Sunday is the dividing line for me. I don't really expect much to come from it..in a positive light anyhow. I think this is a sinking ship we are looking at, and the crew and passengers are happily oblivious to that fact, or worse, they know, but just don't care. Much like the careless crew of the Titanic. BBC won't cease to exist...but it will be in name only. Expect that the standard for leadership, and what's expected from them to drop drastically. Look for many small compromises which will become a large-scale moving away from the Biblical standards for the church and her purpose. Don't expect anyone will shed even crocodile tears at your departure..if the numbers that have already left BBC haven't raised any eyebrows....well, you get the picture. It is a sad thing to see, and an even greater heartbreak to break company with the few Godly people I've known at BBC, but God is faithful, and I know He will provide a place of worship and service. I will be there Sunday...physically at least...mostly to reconfirm in my own heart exactly where BBC is and where she is headed. To those who plan to speak...do so in a manner honoring to our Lord Jesus...stand firm on Biblical principles, and regardless of how the majority reacts or responds to you, hold your head high and stand in the strength of the LORD...He will give you the words to say at that time. It is my joy and privilege to stand with you. Blessings.

Lindon said...

Cakes, you ARE wise. And a great wordsmith...

Lindon said...

Ima wrote: My husband got a charge out of this too...he sometimes calls me 'Ima' these days. Kinda cute don't you think?"

I saw the drawing of your husband on the front page of the WSJ and HE is handsome!!

Support Brother Steve said...

Hey NASS,

How about a link on the front page? You believe in equal time don't you?

Please show your love and support for Brother Steve today!

Anonymous said...

WatchingHIStory,

There are times when The Holy Spirit within a person grants the person discernment of spirits yet the person, who is in a flesh body with the mind of flesh, considers circumstances surrounding the one of which they are discerning evil and, as a result, they counter mentally what God has revealed.

In PW'S case, let's say that The LORD Jesus through His Holy Spirit did indeed cause one to receive that "check in their spirit" about PW (which He surely did do for God is faithful). The one receiving the "check" would have, in flesh, considered PW's position as a "pastor", PW's presentation, PW's "family man" reputation, etc. etc. etc. etc. and then at that point decided that they indeed could NOT have received a "check in their spirit" from The LORD Jesus pertaining to PW for they were not able to view with their flesh eyes and flesh mind the evil fruits.

When things fall, however, the one that received "the check in the spirit" from The Holy Ghost remembers that "funny feeling" they had received about the fallen one. They realize at that point that they indeed rejected what had indeed been discernment from The Holy Ghost about the fallen one.

Several months ago there was a thread on this blog that addressed the question whether any had received a "check in their spirit" about Steve Gaines before he was brought in as pastor of BBC or shortly thereafter. MANY wrote that they had indeed received such a "check". Who had given these people the "check" about Gaines? It was The Holy Ghost of Almighty God Jesus Christ. As we all have watched Gaines fall, we see that indeed the "check" came from God.

How different things would have been if we had sought God regarding "the check" when "the check" first occurred. BBC would not be in the shape it is in now. God tried to warn us but we heeded not. As a result, we did not act upon God's warnings pertaining to Gaines. We indeed failed to do what we are instructed in God's Word to do when The Word says "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

And now we weep.

Charlie Fox said...

support brother cakes,

If I may, one comment about the order of amy's motion. The motion maker does NOT speak FOR the motion BEFORE the motion is made. The motion is made FIRST, it is then seconded and THEN the maker of the motion has the opportunity to speak first for the motion. Other than having the order of presentation reversed, GOOD JOB.

Charlie Fox said...

support brother steve,

It appears from the time stamps that somebody has been real busy STUFFING & PADDING your petition.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Link

I'd say "fictional" is the key word! Somehow I can't ever imagine Steve Gaines humbling himself in that way. I don't think he has it in him.

NASS

Charlie Fox said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
Link

I'd say "fictional" is the key word! Somehow I can't ever imagine Steve Gaines humbling himself in that way. I don't think he has it in him.

NASS

REPLY:

This "fiction" version reads a whole lot more Christian and Pastor like, than the ACTUAL NON-FICTION version does.

WatchingHISstory said...

comeLord,Jesus!

BBC was in a mess long before Gaines got here. He inherited the mess. It is easy to get a check for someone you have already decided you don't like and just as easy to call that the Holy Ghost!

Gaines is not all of Bellevue's problem. I believe that there had to be many meek and tender who had 'checks' about things before Gaines got here.

Junkster said...

PAYDAY SOMEDAY!

http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/
sbvoices/rgleepayday.asp

imaresistor said...

Karen,

Yes...you have picked up on what I am trying to say. I am trying to be tactful about it, and that is probably a lost cause. I suppose there are just some things you have to let rip, don't you. I am going to 'whisper' this to you...okay? A good way to 'pad the vote', so to speak, is to get non-members to come in and vote. Then there is always a predetermine vote too. Did you hear me okay? I mean, let us face it...this is no worse that trespassing is it. Or hiding a criminal in the church. And on and on. I have just lost trust in church leadership. I know how they operate. If there is a serious vote coming down, somebody should have set into place a professional firm to have handled this correctly...leaving no room for errors. Amen.

Amy said...

'Cakes,
I love what you did with my motion!
Are you an English teacher? Anyway, it's was great and I love your command of words!

Now, do think up some eloquent responses for debate against my motion, or motions to amend my motion. Here are a few I could come up with.

1. The leadership has, numerous times, answered questions relating to the concerns unhappy members have voiced. The staff has also expressed they would be happy to talk to members individually and has encouraged members to call or email them. I don't think there are any answers that will satisfy the small minority of people who have chosen to be un-happy. We need to move on as a church and let these godly men do the job God has called them to do.

I move to amend all questions be submitted in writing a week before the meeting. This would give our leaders time to get information together so they can fully address each question. This was also cut down on the number of questions asked, as well as the length of the meeting as one detailed answer could answer several questions.

I move that there be no follow-up questions after an answer is provided. There comes a time when members are just going to have to accept the answers, and not try to pick apart our leadership looking for blame that isn't there.

Now- do with it what you will.

Jessica said...

Hate to break it to you Charlie, but the petition has hit it's tipping point- no one is stuffing and padding anything. The emails sharing the petition are circulating like wildfire through the BBC community and people are signing....

upside down said...

I have had the opportunity to visit this forum for a number of weeks now. I appreciate NASS for the efforts to maintain this blog for others. I note where someone mentioned the blog masters fairness and I am sure that she has been as fair as any of us considering that all our decisions are prejudiced by our individual beliefs.

There seem to be a infinite assortment of those who post on this blog. I am sure there are many more that read the blog and have never posted. I have witnessed in some posters the same legalism that Jesus faced with the Pharisees. Some so self-righteous that grace cannot be felt nor seen with their hypocritical views. In others I have seen the lack of brotherly love toward other Christians. Some more willing to associate with one who celebrations in his sinful nature rather than be open and loving to another Christian. There are those who have been so hurt and mistreated in their own life that they lash out in anger and bitterness at those who question their stand. I read where some have used Scripture out of perspective as if to throw arrows at an enemy. But they themselves dishonor the Scripture by not living their life as a living testimony to the grace provided them by our Savior.

And the posters who have no direct association with the fellowship we call Bellevue that write as though their insight is without error. Some who by there own admission have been asked to leave other fellowships and now choose to help continue and create anew divisions within a membership of which they are not a part. And finally we have the discontented, rebel rousers who just love a good fight. Whether it was Mike, Derrick, or others who posted in support of their pastor and church, they were all attacked not for their ideas or beliefs but solely because they represented the silent majority. And yes that big silent majority who has been lambasted for their lack of holiness, their lack of discernment, their lack of Biblical actions, and their lack of what some called righteous anger; they were all the targets of the few. The few that believe that they understand the Scripture and God’s will better than the staff of the church, the lay leadership and the majority of the members. But yet they call their pastor a man who is arrogant and proud. What would God call those who complain, make division, gossip and slander His church and chosen men? The Scriptures are clear on this and the actions of many on this blog have not pleased our Father.

Finally, the very sad part of all this is that we have now pitted brother against brother, families against families and each of us against another. But the saddest thing of all is that we read where many of you are not only projecting the fall of Bellevue Baptist but unburdened by the actions that you individually may have caused to hurt the fellowship. Yes it is a sad day all around. But I for one believe that the passing of this great church called Bellevue is premature. God has a plan for Bellevue and these times may just have been allowed to cause a true revival within our church. I am looking for Sunday to be a day of new beginnings, not a day to put out my raft into the stormy seas.

Junkster said...

At 3:06 PM, March 23, 2007
Karen said...
2 Samuel 6:3-6

...

See what happens when you do too much celebrating? God proves He will take you out!

junk99mail says ...
Hi, Karen. You were just using a little light-hearted sarcasm, right?

David Hall said...

I'll work it out, Charlie

David Hall said...

Good sign that their sending out the dogs.

Koochie koochie koo, little puppies!

Junkster said...

Believers in Jesus,
Please trust that God has a hand and a plan in all that has and will come to pass. Nothing eacapes His notice, and nothing happens that He does not expressly intend for the good of His people.

Please see Genesis 50:20, and know that God intends to do great and mighty things, even through the evil acts of others.

Please see Lamentations chapter 3 (some shocking and strong imagery, not exaclty the way many think God behaves) and know that even afflication and calamty are His chosen tools for our benefit and for His glory ... and know that He will use these things to work repentance in our hearts and judgment against those who reject Him.

Be still, and know that He is God.

Blessings,
"Junk"

David Hall said...

"There seem to be a infinite assortment of those who post on this blog. I am sure there are many more that read the blog and have never posted. I have witnessed in some posters the same legalism that Jesus faced with the Pharisees. Some so self-righteous that grace cannot be felt nor seen with their hypocritical views. In others I have seen the lack of brotherly love toward other Christians. Some more willing to associate with one who celebrations in his sinful nature rather than be open and loving to another Christian. There are those who have been so hurt and mistreated in their own life that they lash out in anger and bitterness at those who question their stand. I read where some have used Scripture out of perspective as if to throw arrows at an enemy. But they themselves dishonor the Scripture by not living their life as a living testimony to the grace provided them by our Savior."

Some speak in generalities so as to not be held accountable to those slandered.

Just say'n.

Charlie Fox said...

Support Brother Cakes said...
I'll work it out, Charlie

Reply:

Nothing really to work out. Just make the motion FIRST, then at the appropriate time speak FOR the motion.

Charlie Fox said...

Bepatient said...
Hate to break it to you Charlie, but the petition has hit it's tipping point- no one is stuffing and padding anything. The emails sharing the petition are circulating like wildfire through the BBC community and people are signing....

REPLY:

OK, bepatient, if you say so. ;-)

David Hall said...

Charlie,

I'm a perfectionist, dude. Plus, I like ever jot and tittle in its place, although I fail miserably from time to time. The brain moves faster than the fingers.

youthmomma said...

regarding the petitions, it's really easy to put your name on one if you are "for" the pastor. There isn't a name on there that surprises me. It's much more difficult to put your name on one that's asking for the current administration to step down. There are many that state "I am praying for your family Brother Steve" Well, I am praying for him too, but I still think he needs to leave. I still can't put my name on the should they go petition, for fear of how my family will "pay"! That's so sad.

David Hall said...

Where's Bill Loney when you need him?

Lin said...

Truth wrote: "Finally, the very sad part of all this is that we have now pitted brother against brother, families against families and each of us against another."

Matthew 10:

34"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. 37Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.


The truth of the gospel divides. It offends. It always has and always will. Remember, Unity without truth is no unity at all.

David Hall said...

Hate to break it to you, but it's not a popularity contest. The majority in the America south favored slavery; the majority in Germany followed the Third Reich; the majority of Americans are overweight; the majority of voters elected GWB (okay, that one's disputed--haha).

Oh, how very desperate.

upside down said...

lin, another fine example of taking Scripture out of context. But then again you seem to delight in being so good at doing just that. Please explain in depth how that relates to fellow believers and show how that was used in that day for Christian brother against Christian brother. And please add Paul's writing against complainers and dissenters in the church to your response. Otherwise you are dishonoring the Scripture in your utilization. And that is wrong and you should know better.

upside down said...

cakes, may God have mercy on a disbeliever as yourself who revels in the agony of our church's problems. You will one day bow and acknowledge Him, King of Kings, Lord of all, but not know him as your Savior. I pray that the Holy Spirit will move your hardened heart to repentance. I pray that the Holy Spirit will not allow the believers who seek your council to rest before they repent of the shameless praise they have heaped upon you, an unrepentant and unsaved sinner. Those that can gossip and slander a man of God but who openly praises the unsaved woe be unto them.

And folks, just for the record, then is no planned blogging from the church. I am just one whose opinion may differ from another. But I do not speak for the membership of Bellevue, I only speak for myself. Truth is that the church would prefer that no one blogged.

Lin said...

"lin, another fine example of taking Scripture out of context. But then again you seem to delight in being so good at doing just that. Please explain in depth how that relates to fellow believers and show how that was used in that day for Christian brother against Christian brother. And please add Paul's writing against complainers and dissenters in the church to your response. Otherwise you are dishonoring the Scripture in your utilization. And that is wrong and you should know better."

Matthew 7

15"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.


I Never Knew You

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

David Hall said...

My name is...

I move that we set up an open forum between interested members and the administration, along with the Senior Pastor.

In light of recent circumstances, there has been a lot of speculation and confusion amongst Bellevue membership regarding the efficacy, integrity transparency and accountability of its leadership. For the sake of authentic closure and and/or reconciliation, it would be in the best interest of the entire church if members get their questions answered directly, instead of what may be gleaned from the lectern, a letter, the abbreviated scope of the Personnel Committee’s Investigative Report, or the media.

Thus, the moderated question and answer session—on Sunday ______, at 6pm—seeks direct exchange with leadership concerning the legitimate issues that devoted Bellevue members may have. Only questions taken from the floor that day will be entertained; and a professional moderator will be employed to maintain a respectful and orderly atmosphere.

Minutes will be taken and a transcript of the forum provided to all members who request it.

Lin said...

"And please add Paul's writing against complainers and dissenters in the church to your response."

You don't get it. Gaines is the dissenter.

Lin said...

I think it is really cool how transparent everyone on this blog is being about their intentions and methods on Sunday. How different you are from the church leaders!

David Hall said...

Truth Rulez,

Well, God bless you, noble one; may you live a long, healthy and abundant life; and everyone you love.

Lin said...

This is in context for all of us:

1 Peter 4

16Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.

17For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18And

"If the righteous is scarcely saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Charlie Fox said...

truth rules said...
Truth is that the church would prefer that no one blogged.

REPLY:

With all due respect, the church would be WHO?

oc said...

Charlie,
Excellent reply! Who is the church?

Charlie Fox said...

cakes,

I ain't picking on ya brother, but now you are speaking FOR the motion in the middle of the motion.
Write the motion to be brief, stating only what you want accomplished by the motion. Once it is seconded, explain why you presented the motion. That is, speak FOR the motion.

imaresistor said...

Lindon said, "I saw the drawing of your husband on the front page of the WSJ and HE is handsome!!"

Thanks Lindon...of course I think so too. :) But most importantly, he has a love for Jesus Christ in his heart like none other I have ever seen.

Charlie Fox said...

oc said...
Charlie,
Excellent reply! Who is the church?

REPLY:

oc, let's give "truth rules" a hint. It isn't just the building, and it isn't just the staff, and it isn't just the building and staff.

David Hall said...

Oh, this needs to be divided into two statements? Oi!

My experience with motions has been mainly on a dance floor.

oc said...

Charlie,
Yo! That's a pretty big hint! Might as well give away a copy of the test answers!

Amy said...

Cakes Said,

Oh, this needs to be divided into two statements? Oi!

Yes and then you have my three arguments that could potentially be raised to augment.

Get Busy!

oc said...

Get Busy!
Whoa! Amy B. Bossy! :)

Amy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Amy said...

o.c said:

Whoa! Amy B. Bossy! :)


Well, somebody has to take control!

Tim said...

support support brother steve,

There seems to be a theme regenerated to the effect that this is the leader for Bellevue. I would issue the challenge to offer the acts of exhibited leadership displayed.

The term "great pastor" as used in connection with the heroes of the faith that have preceded this man. Perhaps there are acts of pastoral quality to share that should be expounded upon.

Some choose to refer to "those without sin throwing stones" as if he were a martyr. Chastisement and repentance does not lead to death nor is it equivalent to stoning someone to death. Explain this distortion of Scriptural context.

There is an abounding echo of “chosen of God”. Perhaps the bulk of theocracy could explain how the Lord Himself chose twelve and yet one was a malefactor.

The acclimations of “love” are reminiscent of the mantras of the sixties so aptly recorded by that fine philosophizing foursome. There must be some reasoning as to how easily many could embrace and “love” deceit and lies.

Make no mistake; the Lord is at work at Bellevue.

Bellevue is as a great ocean liner, in which the rudder has been removed, that is steaming full speed ahead. It has not the ability to set its course or gain direction other than to be subject to the changing tides and currents of the sea. The seas are perilous and yet the engines are throttled and coals are poured hotter into the furnace. The anchors, to capture the ship steady, are inconsequential without preparations to repair the navigation.


I Timothy 1:18-19
18This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

oc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Amy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David Hall said...

"The leadership has, numerous times, answered questions relating to the concerns unhappy members have voiced. The staff has also expressed they would be happy to talk to members individually and has encouraged members to call or email them. I don't think there are any answers that will satisfy the small minority of people who have chosen to be un-happy. We need to move on as a church and let these godly men do the job God has called them to do. "

My happiness is not the issue; integrity, accountability and reconciliation restored to Bellevue is the aim.

"I move to amend all questions be submitted in writing a week before the meeting. This would give our leaders time to get information together so they can fully address each question. This was also cut down on the number of questions asked, as well as the length of the meeting as one detailed answer could answer several questions."

Cut me to the quick, then.

"I move that there be no follow-up questions after an answer is provided. There comes a time when members are just going to have to accept the answers, and not try to pick apart our leadership looking for blame that isn't there."

This essentially undermines the point of the motion, which is exchange. There are enough opportunities on either side of the fence to monologue. Furthermore, all the blame needed to warrant concern is contained in the Personnel Commitee's Investigative Report.

Amy said...

o.c said,

"That is just FLAT IGNORANT! I...well..forget it. What can be said..."

I don't think anything can be said to a remark like that, I was speechless when I heard it several months ago, and the feeling remains. I removed my post after a couple of minutes because it makes me ill a Pastor would reference the blood Christ shed for us in such a flippant manner.

oc said...

Amy, ok, me too.

Amy said...

Cakes,

I know you just got off the dance floor, but you need to make statements that stand on their own in regards to a motion, or an ammendment to a motion.

i.e
I support the open forum. I feel direct answers, in a venue of open dialog could provide an avenue where integrity, accountability and reconciliation is fully restored to Bellevue

Tim said...

I would honestly care to hear from the Biblically ignorant who believe err in belief that God is in control so everything will be just fine without anyone doing anything.

It would seem that there are some that are willfully ignorant of the apostacy of the church. Taking the scriptures of the church of Laodecia as some meaningless metaphor. The words of Jesus when he said that it would be as in the days of Noah and yet Noah was commanded to build the ark (hardly the example of doing nothing, huh). The brides waiting for the bridegroom that when he came at midnight were unprepared to depart with him and yet they knew as those that were prepared that he was coming.

Certainly, we know exactly what the world is coming to...JESUS.

Tim said...

By the way the "support petition" has thus far proved beyond doubt that there is little strong or meaningful support. It would seem to be far more of a spreading of ma..fertilizer, than a wild fire.

It did not require a fan of email to push a more recent petition to over 400 in less time than this. Perhaps the support is not by majority as claimed after all.

upside down said...

Tim wrote "Perhaps the support is not by majority as claimed after all."

Isn't that what the meeting Sunday will decide? I sure wouldn't base anything on a website petition. Sunday will be a public display of the members support or lack thereof.

Amy said...

o.c-
After I put the quote up I also started thinking about it and I didn't want anyone to think I was trying to be funny.

oc said...

Amy,
Oh, I don't think anyone thought you were trying to be funny. But you're probably right, it was good to delete it. That quote from a leader is not only disgustingly ignorant but embarrassing also.

We're supposed to be a 'witness', but I think that 'someone' thought he heard a command to be 'witless'. Go figure.

Junkster said...

Amy,
LOL, "witless". Very witty. :)

Amy said...

Junkaid
LOL, "witless". Very witty. :)

Sadly, o.c made the witty remark.

There are witty remarks in my posts too, look for them!

Junkster said...

Amy, yep, it was oc! Sorry, oc! And yes, Amy, you are quite witty as well. :)

Junkster said...

Has anyone taken time to read Genesis 50:20 or Lamentations 3?

oc said...

Junk, itsawwright!

Amy, why is it sad that I made a witty remark?:) I think it may have happened once before, but I can't quite remember...

Amy said...

o.c
Amy, why is it sad that I made a witty remark?

Oh it's not- it's just too bad I didn't think of it is all....

oc said...

Amy, gotcha, I'm just being sarcastic. No harm, no foul. :)

Tim said...

truth ruse,

Petitions are much like polls depending upon a volatile the petition may be. It is amazing that the "support petition" which requires no action has gained so little support and is indicative of a very weak platform of support.

On the other hand an extremely volatile petition which did require action gained 33% more support in only 80% of the time.

It still appears that the majority could care less one way or another. Let's face it the standing ovations were brought to a swift and sudden halt because of the crumbling support and now folks won't even put there name on a "we support you, no matter what hair brained thing you do next" petition.

concernedSBCer said...

Tim: I do hold out hope for Sunday. If there are some that are content to sit in church and not take a stand, I wonder if the will sit in a business meeting and not take a stand? Just thinkin'

New BBC Open Forum said...

Check out the petition now.

overflowinggrace said...

Ok...there are two big differences in the "Anti-Petition" and the "Support SG". I dont remember the Steve G. supporters posting comments on your petition, like your folks are. Second, there are very few anonymous names on the support list.

overflowinggrace said...

So Mashburn your bragging about the lies your side is spewing.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I have no idea who's doing that! But I certainly know a lot of people I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt are not signing it. So don't call them "your folks." I don't claim them.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Who's "Mashburn"?

overflowinggrace said...

See you Sunday!!!

I move we end this meeting!

Piglet said...

OFG said

Ok...there are two big differences in the "Anti-Petition" and the "Support SG". I dont remember the Steve G. supporters posting comments on your petition, like your folks are. Second, there are very few anonymous names on the support list.

Piglet says:

Don't guess there's repercussions to SUPPORTING the pastor, you know.

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: you beat me to the punch...exactly! No fear with being a "yes man"

Piglet said...

OFG said

So Mashburn your bragging about the lies your side is spewing.
Piglet says:

NASS is NOT TRENA MASHBURN!! You really have it in for her, don't you?

And lies? What about the lie that Gaines is a godly man and is rightly dividing the word of truth!!

Piglet said...

OFG said
Ok...there are two big differences in the "Anti-Petition" and the "Support SG". I dont remember the Steve G. supporters posting comments on your petition, like your folks are. Second, there are very few anonymous names on the support list.

Piglet says:

Tim Coggins had to remove 15 or 20 fictitious petition signers with far less profound comments.

Piglet said...

Hey, where is everybody?

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: I'm here!

Piglet said...

OFG must have left the building and everyone else besides you and me must have a life. :(

Friday nights at home under my blanket - too old and tired to boogie.

(Oops. Baptists don't boogie)

oc said...

Piglet,
I'm here too!

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: How are your kids handling all this? Are they ready for the possibility of having to leave BBC?

concernedSBCer said...

But Piglets boogie!!! :)

oc said...

OOPS! Guess I have no life either!


Oh well, Let's Boogie!

oc said...

Piglet, Concerned, oc, ... the 'Boogie Bloggers'....now that's just sad....

Piglet said...

concerned said

Piglet: How are your kids handling all this? Are they ready for the possibility of having to leave BBC?

Piglet says:

At this point, that is the saddest part for us. What we loved about Bellevue is gone but the kids still have good friends. The up side is that several of their friends are at GBC should we decide to join there.

But my 14 year old's best buddies would not drive that far if their parents decided to leave. He grew somewhat ambivalent about it and we had to remind him of all the things that had happened and that sometimes doing the right thing is hard. He is angry and I told him that I am angry FOR him and I would change things if I could. Goodness knows we have tried.

We've talked about places to visit, so we're all sad but they are accepting it.

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: I am so sorry. To a 14 year old, I'm sure it feels like persecution.

Piglet said...

oc

Are you posting those fake names on the petition? :)

oc said...

Piglet,
no, I'm not smart enough to do that! You give me too much credit!:)

David Hall said...

Actually, I'm Dirty Sanchez.

Piglet said...

Concerned

You are SO sweet! I just hope the Lord will put us somewhere with great youth leaders and kids. This time next year things could be A-OK. The entire past 6 months for us have been HORRIBLE!!

Where are you attending now - or are you looking? I know you're not at BBC...

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Piglet's" correct. My name's not "Trena Mashburn." I seem to recall that name coming up before. What do you have against that person?

Piglet said...

cakes said

Actually, I'm Dirty Sanchez.

Piglet says:

ARE you? Hmmm.

Why are you online? I hope you weren't stood up again.

oc said...

Why are you online? I hope you weren't stood up again.

No, I just had to 'reschedule' again...he understands, don't you cakes?

imaresistor said...

concernedsbcer..."To a 14 year old, I'm sure it feels like persecution."

Hmmm...it seems like persecution to adults too.

David Hall said...

No solid prospects tonight, but I might go look'n. Life's too short to be alone.

oc said...

concernedsbcer..."To a 14 year old, I'm sure it feels like persecution."

Hmmm...it seems like persecution to adults too.

And betrayal....

David Hall said...

"No, I just had to 'reschedule' again...he understands, don't you cakes?"

Oh man, I'm still not gay--y'all cain't git me on that one. Haw!

Piglet said...

Cakes

What are we? Chopped liver? :)

Ima

You'd be proud to know I haven't taken nuttin' sittin' down! :)

ELVIS FANS: He signed the petition - he IS alive!!

Junkster said...

WORD OF THE DAY:
Obstreperousness
noun
1. noisy defiance
2. resisting control or restraint in a difficult manner

Obstreperousness refers to a person's tendency to find fault, to attribute blame to someone else, to make other persons wrong, and to portray them self as always right. The obstreperous person is someone who has a consistently critical attitude. The more pessimistic a person is, the more likely they are to be obstreperous.

oc said...

Cakes,
Yeah, keep denyin' it...

David Hall said...

"What are we? Chopped liver?"

Bacon.

imaresistor said...

Piglet...
"You'd be proud to know I haven't taken nuttin' sittin' down! :)"

Oh...you just don't know!

Elvis...alive and well? What a relief!

Junkster said...

Cakes,
Try eHarmoney.com, and "find the love of your life." The commercials say so.

oc said...

'Obstreperousness' Yeah, and I bet cakes is that too!

Junkster said...

sorry, that's eharmony.com

Junkster said...

I don't think Cakes is Obstreperous, but I suspect he's used the word before. If not, I suspect he will soon. :)

David Hall said...

Yeah, that eharmony dude gives me the creeps; and I don't want 29 dimensions of compatability, I'd settle for a couple. One of them could be a pulse.

David Hall said...

I think my mom takes calcium for that.

oc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Piglet said...

cakes

Yeah, that eharmony dude gives me the creeps; and I don't want 29 dimensions of compatability, I'd settle for a couple. One of them could be a pulse.

Piglet says:

Ohhhhhh....I'd set you up but the only Buddhist I know is Tina Turner and I don't really KNOW her....

Ima

I could tell you stories!!! But then those who DON'T know who I am would figure it out....although being pink all over is hard to cover up, too...

Piglet said...

FUMC pastor just signed!

Now, Cakes, isn't this more fun than a date?

David Hall said...

uh, no.

Junkster said...

Cakes,
Check this out.
http://dir.salon.com/story/
mwt/feature/2005/06/10/
warren/index.html?pn=1

Not that you're gay (not that there's anything wrong with saying there's something wrong with that!), or a feminist pagan, but it's a pretty fair assessment from a source not likely to be impressed by eharmony.com or its founder.

Piglet said...

Sorry, Cakes, I'm doing the best that I can. :(

So let's talk about you.

What do you teach?(Vocabulary?)

Junkster said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David Hall said...

I teach art to grade schoolers. I'm a visual artist, guerilla curator and art critic. I play latin percussion and other musical instruments from around the world.

I favor cinnimon toothpaste

Piglet said...

Interesting - love art. Did sketches for commisiions for a brief time but got too busy. Dabbled in charcoal some.

My son is the musician, though. He's a drummer. My other son wants to begin guitar lessons. I can't even play the radio. :)

Junkster said...

Looks like Dirty Sanchez has withdrawn support for DG. And Elvis has left the building.

Lwood said...

Well folks
ELVIS has left the building..Sure was good for a laugh tho...

Junkster said...

Cakes, be sure to include your affinity for cinnimon toothpaste on your eharmony.com profile. That's gotta be a plus...

Piglet said...

lwood

Yeah, he said he was singing at PD churches now!! HA HA

David Hall said...

Wise men say

Only fools rush in...

Junkster said...

Well, Cakes, didya read it? Ready to sign up?

Proverbs 12:22 said...

So far the signatures on this new petition mostly represent the Bellevue Who's Who list. The interesting thing about this new petition is who has not signed it yet. Many BBC notables have not signed. Everyone should pay attention to those names not there. For whatever reason some have intentionally not signed. Where are the Bellevue staff members (Jernigan, Long, Fish, Williams, Newberry, Barnwell, Parker, Gates, Ray, etc)? Where are the deacons? So far not many of either group have shown their support. A deacon said deacons were sent notice of the petition, so why are they not signing?

The paucity of support for the pastor is slowly becoming apparent. Maybe our church is not as far gone as I once believed. Each hour that ticks by tells me something.

Watch this petition everybody, in a church our size for so few to be willing to put there name out there for the pastor is telling. I'm afraid this petition may backfire. This will be interesting to follow.

David Hall said...

G'night, Trena.

New BBC Open Forum said...

cakes wrote:

"G'night, Trena."

...wherever you are!

David Hall said...

"Cakes, be sure to include your affinity for cinnimon toothpaste on your eharmony.com profile. That's gotta be a plus..."

Plus whitener--how'd you know? I just brushed my teeth and now I have the urge to listen to polka.

Piglet said...

cakes said

Plus whitener--how'd you know? I just brushed my teeth and now I have the urge to listen to polka

Piglet says:

The piggy polka? :O)

WatchingHISstory said...

Thine heart shall meditate terror.

Your stately, gallant ship with its galley of oars is useless. It will not pass through broad rivers and streams.

Thy tacklings hang loose: it cannot hold the mast firm in place, or keep the sail spread out.

Where are the builders of your towers, where are the lawyers, the accountants who determine your worth?

Where is he who gives the interpretation of an obscure speech, deeper than a human mind can comprehend?

upside down said...

"Many BBC notables have not signed. Everyone should pay attention to those names not there. For whatever reason some have intentionally not signed. Where are the Bellevue staff members (Jernigan, Long, Fish, Williams, Newberry, Barnwell, Parker, Gates, Ray, etc)? Where are the deacons? So far not many of either group have shown their support." wrote proverbs

You have got to be kidding! These silly website petition don't mean anything. Anyone who would try to extrapolate meanings from who did or who did not sign needs some lessons in reality. Come to church Sunday and you will get a lesson in reality.

upside down said...

For all of you who were not at the budget meeting Sunday, you may want to go to the Bellevue website and visit David Coombs page. He has posted and answered many of the questions presented during that meeting. You can find answers to such questions of "how much have we spent in legal fees due to the PW situation?". It was over $50,000. Go and find out exactly how much. And the membership has grown from last year but the attendance is down.

Remember that you were informed by earlier posters, specifically Just My Opinion, that David Coombs would bring some integrity and transparency to the situation at Bellevue. The upcoming business meeting publicly announced, this informative listing and his willingness to take calls have been the fruit of a new openness.

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: NASS is forwarding you mail. :)

Advice from Lucy! said...

If you read the questions carefully, you will find at times a lack of thorougness. It seems as though it is desirable to give a little information, but as little as possible. I applaud DC for his efforts at transparency. However, in light of the lack of trust in the main boss up there, and other nonleaders more information is needed THIS YEAR, not in six months nor in the next year or two. Since we have this new former COO, doesn't it stand to reason that we would have a yearly report, complete with a balance sheet NOW. Full disclosure without personal salaries would have been a real step in the right direction. We should not have to beg for information, which is what is happening. Information is guarded. We need comparisons of the projected budget with the last two years. What are they afraid of? I think that is obvious. The truth is too embarrassing.

While Bellevue is a church, rather than a typical corporation, it has significant funds, which must be managed with higher integrity and greater transparency than the world demands, because it is NOT their money. How many CEO's or COO's would keep their jobs for long IF they kept this amount of information hidden from investors?

When the top guy has integrity issues, is not squeaky clean in his own life, has a problem clearly defining many biblical principles for himself and those he seeks to lead, has problems preaching his way out of a paper bag at times due to the mixure of untruth with truth, thus causing confusion, then - WE HAVE WHAT WE HAVE. If you are satisfied, then I'm sad for you. Let me know how it's working for you in five years. Tell me then, will Bellevue have the reputation of standing for righteousness that it once had . . . or will that be more than a little murky & reflect the nonleadership? This is a grievous day. What insensitiviity to be celebrating 2006, when I have not heard yet at any time from the nonleadership that we need to grieve & repent the sin in our midst. Why? Because SIN HAS CEASED TO BE SIN at Bellevue. Grieve. Mourn. For the day of judgement is upon us. I will personally be crying out to GOD in prayer for those true believers who are left after the mass exodus in the next 1-6 weeks. I for one am embarrassed to be a member of Bellevue Baptist Church. For 32 years my family & I have been blessed by the ministry of this once great church. Look for other Memphis churches to now rise up in the kingdom quickly. As cars drive by Bellevue and people point to the church, it will continue to be known for many years as the church that DOES NOT call sin what it is -sin. The budget is not the main problem - but a symptom of a top problem. There is sin in the camp my friends.

Lucy
That is worth far more than 5 cents. Christ's blood is priceless.

upside down said...

Lucy, how's Linus?

Well as I expected the boo birds would be flying out with their criticism of the Q&A's. If you want more Lucy, then I suggest you take the time to call and ask for more information. Why sit and sour while not attempting to explore your options. Ask me how a gasoline engine runs and you will get a brief answer. Ask me how to build one and you'll get a little more complexity in my response. I think that to assume that someone is hiding something because of brevity of an answer is a stretch. You've been around for 34 years...tell me a time when you've gotten more information? I know that it hasn't been since Bellevue moved in the new campus. Ok, and let's complain about why it's called a campus. Now that was a silly question. And the other one about staff being called faculty was just nonsense.

The fact is Lucy the men who have overseen the budget are the same ones who done so for the past 10 years. Why now are you concerned? Yes, money from special projects was given to FUMC. But that has been brought up, acknowledged as a mistake, and the finance committee has committed to me more exploratory when request are brought before them from the pastor.

I guess the question I would ask myself is "am I ever going to be satisfied at Bellevue? Will I be able to move forward and let the past be the past?" For me I believe that there have been lessons learned in the most difficult and embarrassing way possible. I am willing to look forward to Bellevue once again being the flagship of the SBC. For those who have already began searching for seats on the lifeboat, I say to you bon voyage!

Proverbs 12:22 said...

In response to my comment, Truth Rules said, "You have got to be kidding! These silly website petition don't mean anything."

Then why have they been frantically sending emails around the church in an attempt to get signatures? They clearly want it signed.

Tim was right signatures in favor of his petition was much more significant because it took courage to support his petition. In fact, 400 signatures on his petition is more significant than 4000 signatures in support of the pastor. Oh wait, they seemingly cannot get 4000 signatures (and 10,000 is a pipe dream!).

imaresistor said...

As most of you know, I am not a member of Bellevue. However, I do love your church. I love all of you...as we are all the Body of Christ. I share your pain in your turbulence.

In thinking about your upcoming meeting tomorrow after the services, my mind keeps going back to the service itself. This is Celebration 2006? I must ask if this is an annual event? Do you have this Celebration service every year? Did you have Celebration 2005? Celebration 2004? Celebration 2003? And so on? Or is this something new? Did Gardendale have Celebration 2005 and Celebration 2004? As for Celebration 2006, I find this 'title' to be in poor taste given all the catastrophes that have besieged Bellevue this year. I would think something like ‘Repentance 2006’ would be more fitting. And perhaps during this Repentance 2006 service, Steve Gaines and all those leaders involved in the downfall of Bellevue during 2006, could fall on their knees and ask forgiveness for all their transgressions. I am thinking that maybe this group of people…the pastor and staff, the leadership have more to celebrate in the year 2006 than you people know about? They need to have to answer the question …what exactly are you so thankful for that occurred in the year, 2006, that you are celebrating it? I hope that in the morning they will tell you these things. Are they, perhaps, celebrating the stray sheep…the people they have caused to leave Bellevue? Now I could see a celebration if they managed to bring these people back…but celebrating in the absence, come on! I would like for some of you from the pro-Gaines camp who read this blog to answer my post? And please address the issues of the losses...don’t tell me how nice the Christmas program was. Address the absence of Mark Sharpe and Jim Whitmire and the others. Tell me how you are celebrating in their absence. I really want to know.

This is a slap in the face to so many members, and former members, of Bellevue Baptist Church. I just want you to tell me what you are celebrating. And I just want you to tell me how it feels to among those who can be so cruel.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Think these buttons would help discourage those standing O's? Okay, the concept is ridiculous but no less so than a "support Brother Steve" petition.

imaresistor said...

NBBCOF,

Send me one! I'll wear it in support of the resistors.

concernedSBCer said...

Can we get those buttons printed? I'll wear it!

imaresistor said...

truthrules said, " I know that it hasn't been since Bellevue moved in the new campus. Ok, and let's complain about why it's called a campus."

Oops...you made a slip of the tongue. Somebody needs to tell you. We know why it is called campus. Do you? That is Warren's terminology from purpose driven. But...now listen closely; they are no longer wanting you to use this terminology. Now...they say it is to be a secret. Just go to pastors.com and read for yourself. They are now telling you PD guys to keep everything in secret, including their new terminology. You know the words of course...things like campus, small groups, churched, unchurched, etc. You probably know them all. I probably do too. Just thought you need to know.

Advice from Lucy! said...

Truth Rules,
You have a nice name. I really wish truth did rule at Bellevue. It did in the past.

Wow! How defensive can one actually get? "However, in light of the lack of trust in the main boss up there, and other nonleaders more information is needed THIS YEAR, not in six months nor in the next year or two." You missed this part. Again, you need to read carefully. Trust has been broken. BROKEN. We need healing.

I'm not impressed that the same men have served in the area of the budget for 10 years. Skipping over itty bitty fences tells me something about the quality of the nonleading going on now. Are these nonleaders blind or just without discernment? TRUST HAS BEEN BROKEN!

DOES TRUTH RULE? Not much to say about the sin in the camp issue I see, which happens to be the core issue I mentioned. If sin was actually considered sin, then we would not be having the discussion of a nonleader mixing untruth with truth from the pulpit, and I would not care to question the budget as closely. Neither would many of the questioners. Thus when sin is not dealt with more problems always follow. Broken trust leads to lack of trust, because integrity has been damaged.

SIN is SIN and always will be, as far as God is concerned. There is no skirting around that biblical issue. We could blog all day and that would not change. Can we not agree on the issue of sin? If not, then we have ceased to be a church of credibility.

THERE IS SIN IN THE CAMP!

Lucy
I could care less about the 5 cents.

Tim said...

Take a look at some of the comments over on the "Support Steve" petition. It seems that there is a recurring theme of "Gods Man" and "Man of God".

So let's rewind that tape back to the beginning. "Gods Man" would not directly speak with a man that said "Amen" to frequently. Would not meet with a small group to dispel the story about a dream.

Perhaps some of the Biblical scholars could point the direction where "Gods Man" has ever been an indecisive coward. A man, a real man, would meet a challenge head on and face to face, not hide behind others sent to do his bidding. A real man would humble himself before others when necessary, confess when necessary and always maintain the highest level of integrity.

Maybe some of the folks need to search the scripture and determine what "Gods Man" really is.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I cringe every time I hear the words "small" and "group" used together. Less so with "campus," but I am aware of where that seems to have originated. But where did calling the staff "faculty" come from? I haven't heard that one. (Those were silly questions to ask at last Sunday's meeting.)

New BBC Open Forum said...

They're at it again this morning!

Advice from Lucy! said...

Tim,
In past years, Bellevue had the privilege of being led, served, ministered to, and taught by a REAL MAN. Those days have past as what we have now is NOT a real man.

Anyone who runs from discussion like he does is afraid - very afraid. And he should be. If it is not printed in front of him to read, then he seems to always get in trouble. Speaking from the heart does not seem to be his forte.

"Perfect Love Casts Out ALL FEAR".

Lucy

Lin said...

(un)truth wrote:

"Yes, money from special projects was given to FUMC. But that has been brought up, acknowledged as a mistake, and the finance committee has committed to me more exploratory when request are brought before them from the pastor. "


A mistake? A very bad 'decision' was made. Scripture was ignored. Actually, your description above about financially supporting a church that supports abominations toward a Holy God is what concerns me the most about you.

God was mocked and you think it was a 'mistake'. It only proves your leaders are NOT in the Word.

imaresistor said...

NBBCOF,

Oh my...I love this one from the petition. I can relate...hahaha!

pastors.com award "Kudos to Steve for shootin' the wolves!! Don't dare let them hold you accountable or you've made a big mistake! Hang in there - they'll leave eventually."

imaresistor said...

From the petition...I just posted this. It says, " Hang in there - they'll leave eventually."

Sadly enough, I do believe this to be the pastor's and the leadership's concensus. They are just being patient waiting for those dissenters to leave who haven't already.

allofgrace said...

The petition is somewhat redundant. Everyone has been aware for some time that the "majority" at BBC don't care what the leadership has done/failed to do, and will support them no matter what. Judging from recent comments from the "majority" and the online petition, it seems more of a "we'll show them this Sunday" statement. Which is fine by me...they've been showing their colors for the last several months.

upside down said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
upside down said...

lin, trust me in that your concerns about me are taken with no concern from me. I am accountable to Him, not you. Your judgement about me speaks to your total lack of knowledge and discernment. But you will be accountable for your actions toward God's church. Rather than looking to be a peacemaker you are looking to divide. Rather than showing love you show anger. While Jesus hated sin, He loved the sinner. Maybe you should try and be more like Him who showed grace rather than like the Pharisees who used the law to control.

God doesn't judge sin as we judge crime in this country. He doesn't mark a gift to FUMC as a life sentence but allow a misdemeanor for gossip and slander. Sin is equal in that it all separates us from God. This may be the reason why Jesus asked those who judged to cast the first stone. It may be why he spoke of a log in one's eye while judging a speck in another.

Luke 6

"Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven.
38
Give and gifts will be given to you; a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you."
39
And he told them a parable, "Can a blind person guide a blind person? Will not both fall into a pit?
40
No disciple is superior to the teacher; but when fully trained, every disciple will be like his teacher.
41
Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own?
42
How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me remove that splinter in your eye,' when you do not even notice the wooden beam in your own eye? You hypocrite! Remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter in your brother's eye

But I guess in light of Scripture that you judgemental ones will continue unbridled in your conversations.

Anonymous said...

All of Grace,

What more could we expect from members of the last days lukewarm and compromising Laodecean Church?

Truly it is sickening as The LORD Jesus found it to be in Revelation!!! No wonder He said He was going to spit it out of His mouth lest they repent.

watchman said...

Definition of " majority rules "

When 3 wolves and 2 sheep decide democratically :

what is for dinner ?

sickofthelies said...

One poster on that petition says that ' they will support you no matter what'

Now think about THAT!!!

NO MATTER WHAT????

That borders on being really sick.

Anonymous said...

Truth Rules,

If gossip and slander are what we are all about on this blog, then why do you hang out here?

Before you turn to look upon us to answer, give all of us time to duck down so that your beam hits us not in the head!!!

imaresistor said...

Anybody know who truthrules is?

Piglet said...

Truth Rules said

The fact is Lucy the men who have overseen the budget are the same ones who done so for the past 10 years. Why now are you concerned?

Piglet says:

Gotcha! These guys should NOT be the same ones over, and over, and over for years and years....that IS part of the problem.

And for all this transparency talk, why won't Mr. Integrity (David Coombs) obey the LAW and open the Books to those who GIVE THE MONEY like the law says!!!

He can answer questions all day. Open the ooks. SHOW us the truth or shut up. Talk is cheap.

Piglet said...

Oops! Shoud be "book", not "ooks".

Is "ooks" a word?

Anonymous said...

Is it Donna???

imaresistor said...

Come, LORD Jesus! said...
"Is it Donna???"

A thought. I was wondering about her husband.

Piglet said...

truth rules said

I guess the question I would ask myself is "am I ever going to be satisfied at Bellevue? Will I be able to move forward and let the past be the past?"

Piglet says:

It's possible. Say we open the books - see where the money's been going and boot out any bad stewards. Then get a qualified pastor, updated bylaws.....no, wait, never going to happen. The crooks are in charge and won't be obeying the law or firing themselves, now will they?
Especially with so many drooling followers.

Yep, I'm a little put out today folks. :( Reading that petition is like an excerpt fron the Twilight Zone.

Tim said...

Let's put the truth out about the $25,000 FUMC fiasco.

It was not acknowledged as a mistake by anyone other than Wayne Vandersteeg at a communications committee meeting. Wayne Vandersteeg did not initiate the donation, approve the disbursement, create the disbursement or deliver the funds. The donation was initiated by Steve Gaines. The donation was approved and disbursement created by the missions committee. The funds were delivered by Phil Weatherwax. The administration has taken no responsibility whatsoever concerning this incident.

The first attempted spin was that the church was unaware of the apostic nature of this church. Perhaps, Steve Gaines being a new comer to the area was unaware, however, the delivered of the funds (Phil Weatherwax) is the inner city outreach minister. He was certainly aware of the problems of this "church".

The second attempted spin was that this was a good Samaritan act to assist a "church" that was in need. The spin has said that this "church" does very noble charitable work in the inner city and that without our support they would not have been able to continue to do so. However, the damage was covered by insurance and this "church" did not need our help. The charitable work that is done by this "church" is duplicated several blocks away by the Memphis Union Mission, which is a group that does hold firmly to the Word.

This has never been acknowledged as a "mistake" by the administration, much less as the sin of poor stewardship which it is.

Anonymous said...

Could be...but the strong odor of plastic is a definite "essence de Donna".

sickofthelies said...

RE: the $25,000 gift to the Methodist church.

Do you think it possible that people who wave it off were REALLY not THAT pro life to start with?

Perhaps they were in lip service only. But when something like this happens, they will easily throw that " belief" overboard when given the choice to CHOOSE to support their pastor " no matter what" and pro life.

I have learned a lot about people from that check. I have been very very disappointed that they would compromise their pro life position just so that they can blindly follow SG.

imaresistor said...

Will the real truthrules please stand?

Tim said...

truth ruse,

Interesting that you would quote scripture to "judge not". Please explain what you are doing here.

Tim said...

sickofthelies,

Amen!

The idiotic attempts to portray this in the light of a good Samaritan act are as shallow as a mud puddle in the desert. There is absolutely no Biblical basis that can make an evil act good. None!

sickofthelies said...

Can anyone get me a spare set of keys to handcuffs? JUST IN CASE I decide to go tomorrow?

Piglet said...

truth rules said

But you will be accountable for your actions toward God's church. Rather than looking to be a peacemaker you are looking to divide. Rather than showing love you show anger. While Jesus hated sin, He loved the sinner. Maybe you should try and be more like Him who showed grace rather than like the Pharisees who used the law to control.

Piglet says:

My friend, if Jesus were here I do believe He would be turning over the tables of the moneychangers anf beating them with whips! Jesus was not a pansy. He was very hard on the religious crowd who took advantage of those that followed.

TR Said:

God doesn't judge sin as we judge crime in this country. He doesn't mark a gift to FUMC as a life sentence but allow a misdemeanor for gossip and slander. Sin is equal in that it all separates us from God. This may be the reason why Jesus asked those who judged to cast the first stone.

Piglet says:

Two points

1) It is not gossip and slander to repeatedly call out these men who refuse to be held accountable. We won't be silenced like the Chinese citizens.

The idea here seems to be that we shouldn't talk about it and if we don't talk about it, it didn't happen.

I'll stop talking about it when it's made right. Period.

2) As for stoning, I don't think any of us have planned on that so , no worries. :)

Piglet said...

Concerned

Haven't gotten an email..

NASS

You got my mail?

imaresistor said...

Come, Lord Jesus!

Where did truth rules go?

Charlie Fox said...

imaresistor said...
Come, Lord Jesus!

Where did truth rules go?

REPLY:

Maybe the LIGHT was to bright for him/her.

imaresistor said...

Charlie Fox said
"Maybe the LIGHT was to bright for him/her."

It would appear so...

Oh well...it is a beautiful day out. I am going to go and spread some of our sunshine Charlie! How 'bout you?

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