What thoughts crossed your mind when you heard Steve Gaines utter these words from the pulpit in 2005?In 2005 Bellevue's Annual Love Offering was earmarked for a new prayer chapel.
2005 Love Offering
Since that time, little has been said about a prayer chapel. Some who saw the plans claimed there was a prayer labyrinth in the plans. I've been trying for a long time to confirm this and only recently acquired what appears to be an architect's rendering of the Bellevue Prayer Chapel.
Prayer Chapel Plans
While the plan appears to include a labyrinth, upon closer inspection you can see, at least in these plans, it's really a circular room with three concentric rows of pews and kneeling benches. There are four doors off the main circular corridor leading to this room, and there's space in the center for a sculpture or some other focal point. While not a labyrinth per se, it does seem to have been inspired by the same.
Others who claim to have seen the plans have said the plans they saw specifically included a "prayer labyrinth" which was labeled as such, so perhaps it was removed from the original plans or there were more than one set of plans made.
However, the idea of a separate prayer chapel, especially in light of the recent budget shortfalls, begs a number of questions.
1. Why does Bellevue need a whole separate building devoted to "prayer"? We already have a 7500-seat auditorium that's open during the day as well as a chapel. Why the need to go somewhere special to pray?
2. Would the prayer chapel be open 24/7? If so, how safe could this be?
3. Who will "man" it? Paid or volunteer staff? (There don't appear to be any offices in this particular plan.)
4. There's a large 100-seat classroom/auditorium at the rear of the building. Again, Bellevue already has a whole building full of classrooms. Why spend money on more classroom space?
And speaking of prayer, here are the Personal Prayer Guide and the first two "assignments" for the "Pastor's Pit Crew," the children's prayer ministry that was begun by the new Director of Prayer. Is this what Steve Gaines meant when he said he was going to teach Bellevue to be a "praying church"?Personal Prayer Guide
Assignment 1
Assignment 2
502 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 502 of 502Alansown,
"11:49 AM, August 22, 2007"
I enjoyed,appreciated and revered this post very much.
I see that Two Rivers Baptist Church, in Nashville, is also good at giving standing ovations when the pastor gives an emotional explanation of the current situation. It can be found on their website, under Dr. Suttons statement of August 19th. At least, he did say he hoped the conflict could be resolved without a church split. To late at BBC, it has already happened.
karen and sotl,
okay, thanks for the information. You said ace is deceitful and a liar, but has he actually posed a physically threat towards someone? as in, would this person physically harm/attack someone?
I guess what I'm asking is, when he is "dangerous" are you saying that because of what he might teach or what he might do.
thank you,
hw
It appears the "letter" may have gone to deacon's also.
Just got an email from someone not in the choir that said they got the same letter. WEIRD!!
Here is a sbc outpost article about Wiley Drake (former 2nd VP of the SBC) calling for his congregation to pray imprecatory prayers:
http://sbcoutpost.com/2007/08/16/praying-the-imprecatory-psalms/
11 and NBBCOF,
Sarcasm, and general joking is very hard to read on a blog or in emails. Let's make nice and move on! Neither one of you meant any harm.
11, if you know NASS's heart, you would know how seriously this issue is taken. No harm or "ho-hum" as in lack of interest was meant.
Now, make nice! :)
lin,
And so...what do you say on this one? Any comment? I am sort of speechless...which is rare.
hw....
Ace is a punk kid. Nerd type. Not a physical threat to anyone but himself, unless he decided to take up arms. He is internet savvy and his bravado works well in the dark, but I seriously doubt out in the open. He is probably an intelligent young man with great potential but lacks some of the character assets to make it happen. One of my sons played in the orchestra, did 5 years in the Marines, and was shocked when I explained Ace's act on the blog. Need I say more?
While driving on I-40 today I noticed the "Pray for one another" billboard in front of the ball fields has been "edited" to read "James 5:16." Someone climbed up there and plastered a "16" over the original "9".
New BBC Open Forum said...
While driving on I-40 today I noticed the "Pray for one another" billboard in front of the ball fields has been "edited" to read "James 5:16." Someone climbed up there and plastered a "16" over the original "9".
Meant to post this - I saw the correction too. Looks like someone got out the industrial size white out!
karen
Karen wrote:
"Looks like someone got out the industrial size white out!"
Yeah, it's pretty obvious, isn't it?
The "Donna Shrine" is now history. It's been replaced by a tribute to Tommy Lane.
eprov,
thank you. so in other words, he's not really dangerous? do I need to be concerned?
people say he is dangerous and I just want to know how so. if he is, then I think a meeting is in order for me too.
hw
Hmm, methinks someone at BBC is actually READING THIS EVIL BLOG! :)
karen
Karen,
That thought crossed my mind, too.
hw: I guess that would depend on your definition of dangerous. The language used here, the disregard to authority, the lack of biblical knowledge.....these things can be as dangerous to a developing Christian as a physical weapon.
JMHO
hw.....
I have no reason to take up an issue with him. I did exchange a couple emails direct months ago.
My response is as a father of 4 boys (well, not anymore....they in their late 20s) and 'suffering' thru their developmental stages. The 'Ace' that posted here obviously had some very serious problems which could have been borderline scary. I nailed him from the beginning as a kid because of his writing and language. There would have to be something disturbing underlying his posts that would appear to indicate, to me, some potential serious issues. Let's just say that if I had been near to him he and I would have had a 'come to Jesus' meeting. Thus my use of the term punk. If I had young kids he would never be allowed in their life arena. Sorry if this is too much detail.
lin,
And so...what do you say on this one? Any comment? I am sort of speechless...which is rare.
3:31 PM, August 22, 2007
From the article in the LA Times:
The request was in response to the liberal group’s urging the IRS on Tuesday to investigate Drake’s church’s nonprofit status because Drake endorsed former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee for president on church letterhead and during a church-affiliated Internet radio show.
Drake said Wednesday he was “simply doing what God told me to do” by targeting Americans United officials Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming, whom he calls the “enemies of God.”
“God says to pray imprecatory prayer against people who attack God’s church,” he said. “The Bible says that if anybody attacks God’s people, David said this is what will happen to them. . . . Children will become orphans and wives will become widows.”
My question: How does this equate with scripture telling us not to judge the world? What about turning the other cheek and opening his books for these men and the IRS? Being transparent? My goodness, publish it on the internet for the world to see! What is this 'pastor' going to do when REAL persecution comes?
Also, why is he endorsing presidential candidates from the pulpit or on letterhead of the church. I want a conservative president as much as anyone but our churches dancing with the world on politics has produced much of what we are seeing today: anointed kings instead of humble shepherds.
Richard Land goes on TV and says he speaks for 16 million Baptists. He does NOT speak for me. Rick Warren goes to Syria and says he speaks for Christians in America. He does NOT speak for me. I am a bit sick of all of them.
The Good News is given to ONE heart at a time. Not at the polls.
My guess is that most emergents and even some seekers will vote for Hillary or Obama anyway.
I don't remember alot of details about Ace's posts other than his numerous veiled
and not so veiled threats to expose the identities or private info of those feeling very vulnerable during that time.
He was particularly cruel around the time of the reading of the not so honorable report concerning PW.
Now, so many of us know each other and are bonded but then we were all very raw.
Not knowing he was the punk kid that he was
(which still doesn't excuse the pleasure he got from hurting people)
when he posted one of our blog friends identity on the blog,
I was mortified.
Up until he was revealed for the unstable punk that he is,he gave the impression that he was someone from the inside...in the know.
He enjoyed taunting us when we felt very vulnerable about our personal information being leered at by anyone supposedly on the investigation board.
My son is around the same age and has disappointed me greatly with his rebellious spirit.
But if I knew my child got a kick out of being cruel to others in such a power sick manner
I would check him into Lakeside.
He is unstable and does NOT need to be an influence on the children...any children.
But then neither is the Sr Pastor someone I would allow to be an influence on my children.
And neither should a confessed sexual devient have been allowed to have any influence on children or anyone else for that matter.
The leadership does not care about the safety or the souls of the vulnerable.
They have the same sick obsession with power that this supposedly punk kid does.
David Brown will be doing an interview at 7:05 in the morning on WREC 600 radio.
This is the topic:
Local Memphis clergy sex abuse lawsuits settled.
But bishops' responsibility doesn't end there, S.N.A.P. says.
Group prods top Memphis Catholic officials to reach out to "lost sheep."
Self-help organization still wants Bishop Steib to put names of all predators on web site.
WHAT
At a sidewalk news conference, clergy molestation victims will announce and discuss the settlement of 6 child sex abuse complaints against 2 Catholic priests and the Memphis diocese.
WHEN
Thursday, Aug. 23, 10:30 a.m.
WHERE
Across the street from County Courthouse, at the corner of Adams and 2nd street, in downtown Memphis.
WHO
Two members of a self-help group called S.N.A.P., the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, including a Maryville, TN woman who is the organization's southeast regional director.
WHY
S.N.A.P. believes the settlement of court cases reinforce the stand of victims for honesty and truth. It is the bare minimum first step, but the victims have taken that first step. Now it is time for the Church officials to tell the rest of the truth to Memphis.
Are there other abusive priests in the Memphis diocese now or at any time in the past? Where are the 2 predator priests whose cases have just been settled?
Has every parish been visited, told of the abusers who have been there, and victims asked to come forward?
Do the Memphis people care that they have had the truth withheld and the abuse minimized by the Catholic diocese?
S.N.A.P., the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, is the nation's largest and oldest support group for men and women who were molested by religious figures of any denomination. The S.N.A.P. of Tennessee website is here.
Contact information:
Ann Brentwood, Southeastern Director, S.N.A.P., (865) 984-7092, (865) 607-6119 cell
David Brown, Memphis Director, S.N.A.P. (901) 569-4500 cell
David Clohessy, National Director, S.N.A.P. (314) 566-9790 cell
Someone related the following information to me this afternoon:
She was at BBC and stopped in the bookstore to pick up something. When she went to the checkout counter, the cashier asked for her name. She says her heart skipped a beat, but she gave her name. The lady turned away for a moment and then told her, "I need to get your loyalty card." Her heard began to pound, and her hands trembled. Her mind was racing, composing her answer to the cashier when she returned with the loyalty card. The cashier soon returned with a card with the three crosses on it and told her, "Here, you will need to present when you make purchases in the future, to receive your rewards and discounts."
You just never know what to expect next.
hw,
I wouldn't want my kid anywhere around him.
Just sayin'.
oc.
churchmouse, your 7:06 post.
'loyalty card'? Loyalty to whom?
The first thing that comes to mind is 'flee from evil'.
oc.
churchmouse wrote:
"When she went to the checkout counter, the cashier asked for her name.... The lady turned away for a moment and then told her, 'I need to get your loyalty card.'"
What'd she have to do? Check her list? Maybe it's just for church members. Or church members who tithe acceptably.
New BBC Open Forum said...
Anonymity on the internet is one thing. Sending personal, first-class, anonymous letters is quite another. Does anyone know anything about this? Did anyone else receive a copy? I'd like to see it.
So would I. Even if the letter has all the facts right, sticks to the issues, and does not come across as a personal attack against SG, an anonymous mailing is going to come across as an attempt to cause division and strife. The excuse given by DC and the BBC lawyers for not providing the BBC mailing list was that they thought it would be used to cause disunity and problems -- when it could simply have been used to organize informational meetings, etc. A letter like this just makes it look like the excuse had merit.
Churchmouse said...
Someone related the following information to me this afternoon:
She was at BBC and stopped in the bookstore to pick up something. When she went to the checkout counter, the cashier asked for her name.
At least they didn't ask her to give her telephone number, like they do at Lifeway and Radio Shack. I always think, "Why would anyone just want to announce their phone number out loud so that anyone standing nearby could hear it?" Any perve or deviant within earshot could then do a reverse search on the Internet and get your name, address, and who knows what other personal info.
(End of rant.)
Word verification: oweeu ... like the "Twilight Zone"...
junk wrote:
"Word verification: oweeu ... like the 'Twilight Zone'... "
How appropriate. I feel like I've been living there for the past year.
concernedSBCer said...
MemphisMom: Please join me at Covenant Baptist. Our SS classes are still learning about the Bible.
(We do, unfortunately, still use Lifeway curriculum, but we use the "old-fashioned" kind...the ones that tell Bible stories for the kids)
7:02 AM, August 22, 2007
Piglet says:
Let me share an interesting tidbit about the president of Lifeway, whose last name is Ranier.
He preached recently on forgiveness and used the Lord's Prayer passage. Several times he stated that forgiveness has no conditions and equated God's forgiveness of us with our forgiveness of others.
He was approached after the service and asked about 1 John 1:9 "IF we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Was not the word "IF" in and of itself conditional? Add that to the scores of scriptures that require repentance for forgiveness from God.
His response was that if we believe we have to repent then we believe in a works salvation and that repentance is God's work.
From there I guess we have to conclude that it is God's fault that anyone is in Hell because He just didn't repent for THEM. I've heard this view - just never from the pulpit in any SBC church I have attended.
Junkster said...
New BBC Open Forum said...
Anonymity on the internet is one thing. Sending personal, first-class, anonymous letters is quite another. Does anyone know anything about this? Did anyone else receive a copy? I'd like to see it.
So would I. Even if the letter has all the facts right, sticks to the issues, and does not come across as a personal attack against SG, an anonymous mailing is going to come across as an attempt to cause division and strife. The excuse given by DC and the BBC lawyers for not providing the BBC mailing list was that they thought it would be used to cause disunity and problems -- when it could simply have been used to organize informational meetings, etc. A letter like this just makes it look like the excuse had merit.
8:25 PM, August 22, 2007
Maybe it was sent by DC, someone else in leadership or "oh my"! maybe SG or DG just to validate their point! Just thinkin!
If someone is capable of taking young girls and rolling someones yard with toilet paper or "taking out the trash", what else might one be capable of doing? Just askin!
Drake said Wednesday he was “simply doing what God told me to do” by targeting Americans United officials Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming, whom he calls the “enemies of God.”
“God says to pray imprecatory prayer against people who attack God’s church,” he said. “The Bible says that if anybody attacks God’s people, David said this is what will happen to them. . . . Children will become orphans and wives will become widows.”
This is absolutely the worst thing I've heard in years, and I'm not exaggerating. What an incredible thing to say. What a depraved mind! What a disgrace to the bride of Christ this statement is.
Pray that the IRS finds him innocent. Pray that those he's mad at will reconcile. Pray for their salvation if they aren't Christians. Pray that the Lord will remove the bitterness from his own heart. But never, never EVER pray that God will withhold His breath of life from a fellow human being!!!!!!!
The day that a tax-exempt status is more precious to a 'pastor' than a human life is the day that his church is in need of another leader.
Piglet,
I wonder what those who say repentance is not required for forgiveness would do with these verses - this is not exhaustive.
Matt 3:2
2 And (John the Baptist)saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matt 4:17
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mark 1:15
15 And (Jesus) saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mark 6:12
12 And they (disciples) went out, and preached that men should repent.
Luke 13:3
3 I (Jesus) tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luke 17:3-4
3 (Jesus said) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 3:19
19 (Peter said) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 8:22
22 (Peter said) Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Acts 17:30
30 (Paul says that God)...now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 26:19-20
19 (Paul says) "Consequently, King Agrippa, I did not prove disobedient to the heavenly vision,
20 but {kept} declaring both to those of Damascus first, and {also} at Jerusalem and {then} throughout all the region of Judea, and {even} to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.
Rev 2:5
5 (John writes) 'Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place-- unless you repent.
Rev 2:21-22
21 (John writes) And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev 3:19
19 (John writes) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Ok...what to think about "street by street praying"...on the local news now.
Do I think warm and fuzzy thoughts like I once would have????
Or is this the stuff SG is bringing into BBC....praying over chairs before SS and church???
I have wondered many times this past year if ignorance IS better.
Calgon won't take me away and I can't find Walton's moutain anywhere......
BTW Sheepless,
I agree.... leadership is capable of just about anything...no matter how bizarre it may sound.
TRUTHSEEKERS:
CAREFUL!!! BEWARE!!!!
Do not answer HW anymore...he seems VERY interested in scary cary...
Seems we had someone in the past that would post these same questions with regard to him..
Me thinks we are being duped by ACE himself.
sotl,
I assure you I am not ace - you have me mistaken. like I said, I am just a concerned parent looking out for my child.
hw
by the way, I'm a she, for future reference! :-)
hw
NBBCOF--I'm sorry--I thought my e-mail address was on my profile. Now, I haven't done this bloggin' stuff in quite a while, so it took me a little time this morning to just figure out how to post a comment again...how do I put my e-mail on my profile?
By the way, I used to be in the choir when we attended Bellevue...which we haven't done in a while...
New BBC Open Forum said...
Anonymity on the internet is one thing. Sending personal, first-class, anonymous letters is quite another. Does anyone know anything about this? Did anyone else receive a copy? I'd like to see it.
Reply:
We have been getting anonymous letters for about 2 years. Are they single spaced, one full page, in a script font? We have received about six in total. If it is the same author, I don't believe he/she has any sinister motives.We have received various anonymous letters, but I am spraking of a series from one author.
colossians,
Go to the Dashboard by clicking on the orange "b" in the upper lefthand corner of the front page. Then click on "Edit my profile."
Check the third box down where it says, "Show my e-mail address."
If you want to show a different e-mail address than the one you registered with, go to the next section down and change the e-mail address in the box.
Then scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "Save settings."
Re: repentance and forgiveness...
Repentance is, as one indicated previously "God's work" -- just as is faith, in the sense that God must grant them to us by His grace since we do not inherently possess the capacity to repent or believe unto salvation apart from God's gracious work in us. But this does not mean that repentance is not something we ourselves do ... just as with faith, we ourselves must exercize it, put it into practice.
Repentance presupposes faith -- no one can repent toward someone they don't believe exists. Repentance involves turning away from an offense with the intent not to go on repeating it. Faith deals with our thinking, attitudes, and actions toward someone and what that person has done for us. Repentance deals with our thinking, attitudes, and actions towards ourselves in relation to someone else, and what we have done against that person. In faith, I trust in God for salvation through Christ from the penalty of my sins. In repentance, I turn from my sins and self-directed life and submit to God as the only rightful Director of my life.
In regards to our relationship with God, the connection between repentance and forgiveness is no different than the connection between faith and forgiveness. We cannot be forgiven by God without faith in Him, nor can we receive His forgiveness without faith in Him. Likewise we cannot be forgiven by God without repentance toward God, nor can we receive His forgiveness without repentance toward Him. This is not because God is unwilling to forgive us unless we believe and repent; it is simply that forgiveness is not real or complete until it is received by the offender, and the means of receiving it are faith and repentance.
In regards to our relationship with others, the same stands true. If you commit some offense against me, it would be quite impossible for me to forgive you if you did not believe I existed -- not because I would not want to forgive you, but simply because if you didn't believe I existed, you would never ask me for forgiveness. Few rational adults would be repentant and ask Santa to forgive them for not leaving our milk and cookies, because they don't believe in Santa. (Because Santa doesn't exist -- sorry, OC, to have to break it to you like that in a public forum, but it is time you knew anyway.)
So, is repentance required for forgiveness? Yes -- but this does not mean that we are to hold back on extending forgiveness until someone repents! The Father stands anxiously awaiting for the prodigal's return, looking for us while we are yet afar off. He holds out forgiveness, desiring to grant it, waiting for it to be accepted. But until it is accepted, there is no forgiveness.
Must someone repent before we can forgive them their trespasses against us? Yes, for in order for forgiveness to be complete, it must be received. But if we are standing back, holding on to the offense, unwilling to extent forgiveness unless it is asked for, we have seriously missed the whole point of what forgiveness is all about. Are we anxiously longing to forgive those who have offended, if only they would ask? That, my friends, is a true sign of one who has some understanding of how much they have been forgiven by God.
I like how Bob DeWaay explains repentance and faith.
He say, "I see repentance and faith as two aspects of the same conversion experience. Repentance is turning from self to God. It emphasizes the turning away from our previous sin of trusting self. Faith is trusting God through the gospel for our salvation. The whole of conversion is granted by God's grace and is not a meritorious human work.
Without repentance we are just adding Christ to the self we intend to continue serving."
John McArthur explains: "Conversion occurs when a sinner turns to God in repentant faith. It is a complete turnaround, an absolute change of moral and volitional direction. Such a radical reversal is the reponse the gospel calls for, whether the plea to sinners is phrased as 'believe,' 'repent,' or 'be converted.' Each entails the other."
Anyone who teaches that repentence is 'works' is a false teacher.They have to ignore lots of scripture to come up with that one. But it sells.
We are seeing quite a few false teachers these days. They are everywhere...even in the leadership of the SBC.
Beware.
Sign of the day.
Concerning faith Spurgeon states: "Faith is man's act, but it is the act of a renewed man." The same could be said of repentance, since they are inseparable graces. Repentance is not God's act, but the act of one to whom God has graciously granted repentance.
I am kicking off a new business venture as well as expanding an existing. Since I have come to respect the prayer intensity of many here, please put this on your prayer list. There are obviously weightier issues, but would appreciate the prayer support. Thanks
BLOGGER FRIENDS,
FREE KITTENS TO A GOOD HOME.
I know this is totally off subject, but I really need help finding these kittens a good home or I will have to take them to a shelter. It breaks my heart to think of doing this!
Their Momma was a stray that gave birth to 5 kittens at my house in the late winter, maybe January, and has now given birth to another 5, which are tiny, their eyes just opened a couple of weeks ago; they are now eating dry kitty food.
There are 2 gray stripped with beautiful blue eyes, 2 dark gray and one black.
The Momma is a beauiful black cat and I finally have gotten her to trust me enough to pick her up and I have surgery scheduled for her next Wed.
Do any of you know someone who could give these babies a good home?
Trusted Bloggers can get in contact with me thru NASS or Concernedsbcer...Please help!!!
Eprov,
The best to you on your new business venture and expansion.
Maybe it's something we can all use at our next "bowling party", see you there!
FOOD FOR THROUGHT: I am beginning to recognize a problem encountered by people trying to emerge from a mega church like Bellevue Baptist.
Much of BBC’s membership is comprised of families where one or both adults were what Dr. Rogers used to refer to as “Bellevue babies.” These adults have parents who are members of the church, and they were raised in the BBC environment.
The mega church has encouraged its membership to cocoon itself within her comfortable confines, surrounded by a family of like minded people. The church has supplied so many needs. Social lives revolved around church activities. Children were trained in music and the arts. Bellevue provided sports and recreation for its membership, including walking trails, picnic grounds, elaborate ball fields, and Christian coaches. In the Women’s ministry young mothers learned to sew for their children while listening to devotionals.
When the church began to encounter problems, many of the membership found that they were very dependant on the support system the church provided. If they left, they either looked for another mega church, or found themselves isolated. I think this was especially difficult for home-schooling parents who were dependant on the church’s social environment for their children. Talk about your paradigm shift….
What is the answer for these families? I don’t believe it is a simple one.
I believe we, as Christians, need to rethink everything we “know” about the role of a church. What is a church? What did Christ intend for the church to be?
Some of BBC members are like infants with soft tender feet and immature immune systems. If an infant is to survive in this world, he has to be exposed to some of the germs to become strong and resistant. He has to toughen his little feet, so they will be able to carry him through life’s difficult journeys.
It may be time for us to get out into the world and mix it up a bit. A great cloud of witnesses look on.
churchmouse
Heb.11:32-12:2
There are some posters on here that might make good preachers.
Some love to quote lengthy bible verses and others love to expound on things like "repentance and forgiveness". Hey folks, we all have bibles and its up to each and every one to study the Book and draw our on conclusions. Just an observation.
amazed,
Bet you've never read this translation!
In regard to the matter of tax exempt status for churches, the IRS, and the greater issue of sovereignty, I would highly recommend the following site:
HushMoney.org
amazed said...
There are some posters on here that might make good preachers.
Some love to quote lengthy bible verses and others love to expound on things like "repentance and forgiveness". Hey folks, we all have bibles and its up to each and every one to study the Book and draw our on conclusions. Just an observation.
Yes, we should all study the Bible and drawn our own conclusions (or rather let God lead us to His conclusions). But since you contrasted personal Bible study with people quoting verses and expounding on doctrine, your implication is that people shouldn't be using this forum to instruct one another in the truth. So why are you instructing us? Are you wanting us to say you'd make a good preacher, too?
hNBBCOF--You are right, I never ran across that translation. Some of the names that were used are down right hilarious. Where do you find these things?
CH said...
In regard to the matter of tax exempt status for churches, the IRS, and the greater issue of sovereignty, I would highly recommend the following site:
HushMoney.org
I just perused this site. It is based on the assumption that "tax-exempt status" and "501c3 incorporation" result in a church being beholden to or controlled by the state, i.e., that they are the same thing as having a "State Church". Not to be mean, but that assumption demonstrates a limited understanding of the U.S. Constitution, corporate and tax law, the writings of the founding fathers, church history, and the true meaning of the doctrine of separation of church and state.
Truthseekers: You've got mail.
:)
Amazed,
With respect to you, I think it is very important to share Truth when error or lies have the potential to lead people astray.
The concept of forgiveness and real fellowship WITHOUT repentance is wrong.
I think scripture simply and clearly tells us that repentance is a requirement. Many reading this blog are not sure about a great many things and I think it wise to let scripture speak to the questions and errors that arise.
There are some posters on here that might make good preachers.
Some love to quote lengthy bible verses and others love to expound on things like "repentance and forgiveness". Hey folks, we all have bibles and its up to each and every one to study the Book and draw our on conclusions. Just an observation.
1:23 PM, August 23, 2007
What a strange thing to say to fellow believers. Can we EVER get enough of the scriptures?
I certainly hope your comment does not intimidate anyone from proclaiming the Word here. From what I have seen, there is quite a bit of Biblical misunderstanding out there.
Some have drawn some very unbiblical conclusions...even some of our SBC leaders.
EZ, JTB, and Junk...
I am looking forward to teaming up with you the next time we bowl!!!
Don't be chicken now....of a little ol gmommy!!:)
Paging Dr. Loney! Dr. Loney! Paging Dr. Loney! Cankle emergency! The services only you can provide are needed now!!!
Nass: When you find Dr. Loney, let him know Dollar Tree in Bartlett has potted meat products 3 for $1. We take care of our own, you know!
concernedsbcer,
I'll chip in a couple of bucks worth... just to entice him back! That would be a six-pack of potted meat products. Yum!
He must not have paid his AOL bill this month either.
Junkster--You missed the words "just an observation". However, I do think it is redundant to quote entire scripture verses instead of giving the book and verses to make a point.
Junk,
Thank you for typing out the scriptures for us.
I told my son the other day if he wasn't reading his Bible to go to our blog and read some scripture!
God's Word never comes back void....
I sure hope I remembered that one right!:)
amazed said...
Junkster--You missed the words "just an observation".
No, I didn't miss a thing; you're point was quite clear.
However, I do think it is redundant to quote entire scripture verses instead of giving the book and verses to make a point.
Since you said as much before, sounds like now you are being redundant. But thanks for sharing your opinions.
lindon:
I certainly hope your comment does not intimidate anyone from proclaiming the Word here. From what I have seen, there is quite a bit of Biblical misunderstanding out there.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Iron sharpens iron. There can never be enough truth proclaimed.
I had Spam and cheese sandwiches for dinner tonight. Good stuff!!
Personally, I have been challenged and comforted by both the use of scripture and the commentary here. Have I agreed 100% with everything? Actually, no! However, when I *think* I might disagree about something, it causes me to pray and go on a search to be certain I am on the right track. Iron sharpening Iron......
Hootenanny this weekend!!
whooo hooooo!!!!
Amazed, you said,
"However, I do think it is redundant to quote entire scripture verses instead of giving the book and verses to make a point."
I think it's great that you're ready and willing to look up references. And I didn't mean to "preach" or baby anybody, but in this case I really wanted folks to see for themselves what the Bible says. The power is in the Word itself, not a comment or a scripture reference.
In fact, as I went through the exercise of finding them and pasting them in, I thought it very interesting who was speaking, who they were speaking to, and over what period of time.
Blessings to you.
Junkster, thanks for your 10:05 AM, August 23, 2007 comment. Very well stated.
gmommy,
As the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
and do not return to it without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:10-12
AMEN, AOG! Thanks for posting that (your 10:35 PM post). It makes me so happy to remember that even if we don't see immediate results, God still honors the effort and it was not in vain.
Did everyone get their secret agent watches so that we can synchronize for the clandestine
hootenanny this weekend?
SOMETHING TO PRAY ABOUT:
Yesterday, churchmouse posted a shameless and laborious diatribe on leaving a mega church. The point may not have come across well. In a nutshell it was this: People emerging from a troubled mega church are not only loosing the fellowship of believers and a place of worship, they are loosing a huge support system that cannot be replaced. Some families are not only unchurched but also feeling rather isolated.
CHURCHMOUSE ASKED:
What is the answer for these families? I don’t believe it is a simple one.
I believe we, as Christians, need to rethink everything we “know” about the role of a church. What is a church? What did Christ intend for the church to be?
COMMENT:
I DO think it is time to rethink our situation. Maybe we need to take our focus off of BBC and start to come up with some solutions for our own families.
What about the children? What about the grandchildren? Don't they have enough to contend with? What will we leave for them?
churchmouse
Acts 2:38-40
Junkster said...
I had Spam and cheese sandwiches for dinner tonight. Good stuff!!
Hey, Junk
If you didn't chow down and eat it all, you could bring some to our next "bowling party".
Sorry, "clandestine" meeting that is.
Cakes, oh Cakes, Where are you??
Is that new job wearing you out?
We miss you!!!
allofgrace,
That whole verse is SO beautiful!!! Much better than the little section I remembered...thank you!!!!
sickofthelies said...
Hootenanny this weekend!!
whooo hooooo!!!!
10:27 PM, August 23, 2007
I resemble that remark!
karen
Hootenanny. Bowlin'party. Clandestine meetin'. Spam fest.
Hmmmm. Gettin' the idear somepin' goin' on. Reckon it needs some 'vestigatin'?
I do know dis doe. Once ya got a noid, den anudda comes along. Well, den ya got two noids. Dat be's a pair a noids.
Just sayin'.
oc.
Churchmouse: Your post is right on. A legacy for the Lord.....you have stood up against an ideology that you think it wrong, you've tried all appropriate avenues to reconcile...now what?
I guess it would be to start over. There are still (a very few) solid Biblically sound churches out there, there are still solid pastors preaching God's word, and there are other sheep who love God like you.
Begin the search and continue praying. What else can you do?
(Other than to hang with those of like mind at clandestine events!!!)
oc said:
I do know dis doe. Once ya got a noid, den anudda comes along. Well, den ya got two noids. Dat be's a pair a noids.
SOTL SAYS:
LOLOL!!! I had to read that one OUTLOUD to get it!!!
I waited for quite a while, until my broken heart healed a bit, before I could muster enough....enough...somethin', to reply to this. So with tears in my heart, and pain in my eyes, (no, it's not heartburn, but similar I believe, I think it's Jalapenos) I feel it necessary to reply to the Junkster, 'The Destroyer of Dreams', 'The Flogger of Faith', 'The Slayer of Santa'. So here it is. Laid out for the world to see. Read it and weep. Stay tuned, it could get nasty.
Junkster said:
(Because Santa doesn't exist -- sorry, OC, to have to break it to you like that in a public forum, but it is time you knew anyway.)
oc says: What? NO you didn't! Right out here in front of everyone? Alright then, buddy. This is war. Guess what? Brace yourself...
There is no tooth fairy. It was NASS the whole time. That's why you only got a quarter. He is on a 'fixed income', an income which is really more broken than fixed.(Yet some call him a king. ha!).
(Sorry to let that out, NASS, but you really should have paid the security bill you ran up while trolling lake Minnetonka.)
Junk, I'm not listening to what you say. I know there is a Santa. I feel it in my heart. So you need to repent and ask forgiveness from me. Furthermore, I reject your reality and substitute my own. SANTA LIVES !!!!
SOTL said:
oc said:
I do know dis doe. Once ya got a noid, den anudda comes along. Well, den ya got two noids. Dat be's a pair a noids.
SOTL SAYS:
LOLOL!!! I had to read that one OUTLOUD to get it!!!
oc says:
OK SOTL. I'm annoyed. You're annoyed. So we're paranoid?
Just askin'.
oc. :)
oc said...
I feel it necessary to reply to the Junkster, 'The Destroyer of Dreams', 'The Flogger of Faith', 'The Slayer of Santa'.
Aww, OC, it wasn't true ... was just an illustration, something I made up to bolster my argument ... you know, like an itty bitty fence, or an "information" meeting, or a "congregational business" meeting. Pay me no more mind than you would pay to someone who speaks of invisible snakes or some such visions.
Peace, bro!
P.S. I do think you may be right about NASS being the Tooth Fairy. But that 25 cents wasn't near enough compensation for sneaking into my house and taking my whole set of dentures. He even drank the glass of water I had them soaking in! That water alone was worth way more than a stinkin' quarter.
Junk and OC: I can't help it....to picture Nass on a lake, trolling about in his little roustabout boat, wearing a blue tu-tu with a wand, tiara (like DG's?) and a roll of quarters....well, it's just more than I can handle.
Junk.
Bless your pea pickin' heart!
You only got a quarter for the whole glass of water? (hey, that kinda rhymes. Got a quarter for the water.). :)
It has been my experience that you will make much more profit if you soak your your 'toof' in kool aid.
Udders seem to like the taste, and follow willingly. They get visions, have dreams, handle snakes, and hop fences with no problems at all. Some are even able to develop the manhood to deal with 15 yr old terrorist girls.
I know, I have rambled and chased a rabbit at Junk's expense.
Poor rabbit. Poor Junk.
Thank you Mr Junkster.
Your friend and mine,
oc.
Rare form tonight, guys!
Junk....my team..OK?
Poor Nass.
Has anyone heard from sweet cakes????
Hey Nass! You know, I have been on a formality experiiment lately. I think I'll start calling everybody by their correct names instead of initials. What do you think?
So, Not A Stepford Sheep, how's that Minnesota weather?
Have you heard the latest with Steve Gaines? I heard the Donna Gaines shrine has rotated out of the trophy case. *sigh* Just as I was getting used to it.
Okay...I guess I'm over it! It's easier to type Nass!
Concernedsbcer,
NASS' tu tu is pink. He is such the sissy. And he insists that's not a wand, it's a fishing pole.
Sure. No string, no hook, no bait, but it's a fishing pole. uh huh. Whatever.
Tiara? Yep. Sure. That's a hub cap from 49 Mercury. Looks better on NASS than on the car though. NASS, you are a knock out buddy. But what are all those quarters for????
GMommy: it's the code word plan for the clandestine meeting........
Wonder if Donna's shrine hadn't gotten so much bad publicity if they would have taken it down?????
They were clueless that it was so tasteless.
We'll hear from someone saying it was the plan to rotate every few months.
I guess D just put the goodies in their case at home.
I can't wait to bowl with everyone tomorrow night. I'll be sure to bring my new Glade Air Freshener Bowling ball :).
Lynn said:
I can't wait to bowl with everyone tomorrow night. I'll be sure to bring my new Glade Air Freshener Bowling ball :).
oc says:
Agent lynn. Don't forget to bring the 'special' ball. The one with the quadruple over-lapping 3/4 roll
40 degree ramp with a 576 twist.
I trust you can decode that.
If you can't. Oh well. I will just beat you to death at the 'bowling alley'. So to speak.
Be there. Or there will be problems.
Just sayin'.
oc.
OC,
you know your remarks will be twisted on the other blog while they are waiting for their leader to give his comments on whatever was mailed out
and Lynn,
you got the day wrong....not tomorrow!
I hope ya'll have my tiara ready for the clandestine hootenanny.
I'll be the one in polka dots.
It's too bad that the letter is anonymous. It's quite brilliant! Very focused and damning, for lack of a better word.
No, I didn't receive it in the mail. I read it off of the SavBel site just moments after he posted it.
Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if the top brass were to aggressively go after the writer's identity so they could take him down too... allegedly.
;)
The link to "the letter" is here.
You know, what knocks me out is that some folks seem to be more concerned about a signature than the content the letter.
Talk about a pretext.
Why would Jim H be blamed for the letter sent out...and his people?
Does the BBC leadership and followers think that only we bad bloggers or website people would do such a horrible thing as actually try and shed light on twisted scripture!
I guess it is a compliment to Jim.
Who could afford the postage and materials to do a mass mail out???
That sermon was disected a long time ago.
just thinking out loud.....
gmommy wrote:
"Why would Jim H be blamed for the letter sent out...and his people?"
"His people"? I didn't know Jim had "people"!
THERE'S A NEW TOPIC WHERE YOU MAY CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION. PLEASE MOVE UP!
Thank you,
NBBCOF
Post a Comment